Slashdot Mirror

FLAC isn't so much about quality as having a suitable format for archiving. If you have an audio cd which you intend to archive, then naturally you want a bit-for-bit identical copy of the cd. FLAC is the answer. From your master copy in FLAC you can then make any number of lossy copies in any format you want, whenever you want. I've been doing this for at least 15 years now, buying used cds from an online store like secondspin for an average of $4-5 per album, promptly archving them to FLAC format, and putting them away in storage.

Now, if you are talking about streaming FLAC, then I agree it's kind of ridiculous. 160 or 192 kb/s MP3 will be virtually indistinguishable from FLAC, and at least an order of magnitude less bandwidth.

Lossless is more about having an exact bit-for-bit copy of the original cd which is suitable for archiving. If music isn't exactly a passion for you then you probably don't even care about having your own music collection, and therefore lossless compression isn't much use to you. But if you do, the usual technique is to copy your original cds using lossless compression, put the cd away in storage, and from the lossless master copy you can generate lossy copies in any format, whenever you want. The master copy remains perserved as it was on the original cd: a true archive. Again, this probably sounds pointless to 99% of you, but for those of us who take our music collection seriously, it is the only way.

Speaking of collecting music, I have to put in a plug for secondspin.com. I've been buying used cds from them for about 15 years now, paying an average of about $4 to $5 per cd. I've built up a massive collection this way, and the best part is that the music I like most (jazz, fusion, classical, new age) is typically what other people like least, and therefore I have plenty to choose from at good prices. I have a list of artists/albums I'm interested in, hundreds of items long, and every 6 months I go to secondspin and simply run down the list of the currently "hot" items. I have an extensive system of shell scripts to do the archiving, tagging, and converting. It rocks.

I post this every time the subject of music comes up. If you are an avid collector of music, forget about downloads and streaming (unless it's truly free of course). Instead, keep a running list of music you're interested in, and every so often, visit an online used cd store like secondspin.com (not affiliated) and order a handful of used cds to add to your collection. Limit your purchases to about $5 or $6 per album. When they arrive, record them to flac format and store the discs away. Now you have a master archive which you can convert to any lossy format at any time, while leaving the masters untouched. Chown the archive to root to ensure that it can't be touched by your rogue music player.

I have been doing this for almost 15 years, and have amassed a collection of hundreds of albums, and yet I still have a "wanted cds" list over 300 artists long. All of this is 100% legal, and you get the real deal (the original cd album), not some re-sampled mp3. Furthermore, you completely side-step the crooked music industry. (When I really want to support an artist, I buy tickets to the show.)

The only pitfall is that you won't find much new music at $5/cd. But that's OK, once you realize that the amount of new music coming out that's worth keeping is only a fraction of a percent.

Buy used CDs only, and cleanly sidestep the greedy bastards. Support your favorite musicians by going to live performances instead.

I've perfected a system for aquiring new music. First, keep a permanent list of artists/albums you are interested in. Any time you hear music that interests you, record it to the list. My current list has about 300 line items. I will probably never get to cross them all off the list in my lifetime, but the point is to have a ready list to guide your used CD purchases (never just go and browse). Next, every few months or whenever you feel like it, go to an online used CD store like secondspin.com. It has to be online because you need a vast selection to make this work. Then, simply go down your list and search for each one (or whatever catches your eye, as long as it comes from the list). Give yourself a threshold for price, for example $6 per CD, and stick to it. This is important because it needs to be cost-effective to get the most out of the plan. Narrow down your choices to about 10 CDs and make the purchase. When they arrive, archive each CD to your music collection in FLAC format, and put the original away in storage. The original CDs don't have to be in perfect shape. They only need to archive perfectly, because once they are archived, you have a perfect master from which you can derive MP3s or any other format, any time you please. Enjoy your new additions to the collection and repeat the process when you feel the need for some fresh material.

I have amassed a collection of hundreds of CDs this way, resulting in a very large FLAC archive. I started doing this over 10 years ago when storage wasn't cheap, but now it is. I create playlists using a homebrew tagging system and MPD with the Sonata frontend, and simply play the FLACs directly off the master archive. Tip: chown the entire archive to root:root to eliminate the chance of any rogue software messing with it.

Archive to FLAC and put it away for storage, like I do with all my cd's. With a proper lossless archive like FLAC, you forever have the option to convert to any lossy format you chose, for a perfect "first generation" copy. On your main computer, of course, you can just load the entire FLAC archive into your music player and play off that.

Why mess around with buying mp3's when you can get the real thing? I keep a running list of albums I might want to buy, and every few months I order a batch of about 10 used cd's from a used cd store like this. It's not hard to choose between $5 for the real deal and $10 for mp3's (which, no matter how good the sound quality, can never be bit-for-bit identical to the original WAV files on the original disc).

Here is your solution, especially if you're not into the latest and greatest pop music. Or google for more used cd stores -- there's plenty of them.

When you buy used, not one cent goes to the RIAA.

You need to check out some used cd stores like this one. I keep a running list of albums I'm interested in, and every few months I order a batch of about 10, averaging $5-6 per album. You get the real deal, no strings attached, and most of them are good if not excellent quality for being "used". I simply FLAC them, give away the jewel cases, and store the discs and booklets away safely. I have amassed a collection of over 300 cds this way.

To hell with pirating.

If you're looking for actual, physical cd's at a lower price, look no further than online used cd stores such as this one. I keep a list of albums I've always wanted, and every few months I order a batch of about 10. I normally pay between $3 and $6 each, $7 at the most. The quality is normally good, sometimes even "new". I simply FLAC them into my archive and put the originals away for storage, giving away the jewel cases.

I've amassed a collection of some 300 albums, mostly thanks to this method. Of course, it works better for older rather than newer stuff -- if you're looking for the latest and greatest pop superstar platinum album, you're not going to find it for $6. Fortunately, I'm not into that anyway.

No, I'm not affiliated -- just a satisfied customer. One last thing: when you buy used, the RIAA doesn't get one cent.

Or just head over to a used cd store like this one, buy the original album for $5 to $7, archive it to your disk in lossless format, and put it away for storage. Why screw around with itunes when you can have the real deal straight from the get-go -- and be free to do whatever you want with it, including converting to lossy for your portable player -- typically even for less money?

Oops, did I just give away the secret to amassing the ultimate music collection without breaking a single law?

most ears can't hear the distinction between new vinyl and a CD / MP3

Sure, but for me that's besides the point. I'll keep buying used cd's from sites like this one for one damn good reason: archiving. Lossless compression, which obviously can only be produced from the original master, is the only suitable choice for archiving. Quality has nothing to do with this -- either you have an identical bit-for-bit copy of the orginal master, or you don't. I happen to want that bit-for-bit identical copy, because my objective is archiving.

Sure, you can buy a "cd" off itunes or some other online store, but when I'm averaging $7 for good-condition used cd's, what's the point? With the original master you are 100% free to manage your music any way you choose: if you want mp3's for your portable player, just convert them while leaving the lossless archive intact. On the other hand, once you go lossy, you're stuck.

that's just not practical with my 500+ album collection. It'd fill up my laptop's hard drive real quick

I have around 300 albums encoded with FLAC and the entire archive takes about 120GB if I remember correctly. So 500 albums might take around 200GB. Whatever you do, don't get rid of your original discs because soon it will be feasible to archive your collection in lossless format. The primary reason to do so isn't sound quality as many people assume. It's the fact that lossless formats are ideal for archiving: you now have a permanent, bit-for-bit copy of the original master disc, which you can convert to any lossy format at any time (I have a script which converts my entire collection in one command). Or you can burn a reproduction of the original disc exactly as you bought it at any time (again, a simple script). You can't do this with lossy formats -- converting between lossy formats is obviously a no-no (once you go lossy you're more or less locked in), and reproducing the orginal master disc bit-for-bit is impossible.

Incidentally, if you're considering buying lossy albums, you might want to check out an online used CD store like this one, especially if you're looking for older music. They have a great selection, and most of the discs are in great condition. Why buy lossy albums when for about $6 or $7 on average you can have the real deal -- which you can simply FLAC and then put away in permanent storage.

I already do: I buy about $50 worth of used cds every few months from online used cd stores such as this one. I simply FLAC the cds and put the originals away for storage.

- I pay an average of $6-7 per cd.
- Most of them are in great condition.
- I get the real deal, original cd, booklet and everything.
- Absolutely, positively, no DRM.
- Not one cent of it goes to the RIAA.
- I can convert my entire collection to lossy (for the portable mp3 player) in one shot

To hell with purchasing lossy files -- I've already got the real deal. The only downside is that you won't find the latest pop music at those prices, but then again, why would I care about that? ;)

Why should I have to pay twenty God-Damned dollars to listen to thirty year old music?

You don't. I keep a list of music I've always wanted, and every few months I order a batch of about 10 used cd's from this place. I pay about $6-7 per album on average. Most of the discs are in great condition, none have had more than a few minor scratches. Great selection, mostly older stuff of course, but then I'm usually not looking for brand new stuff.

I simply "FLAC" them into my master archive and put the originals away for storage. I normally play the FLACs directly off my computer, but since they are archived using lossless compression, I can convert to lossy on demand (for the mp3 player, etc) while keeping the lossless copy pristine.

Think about it. (1) You get the real deal, the original album and the original audio which is suitable for archiving (no, Virigina, a lossy copy is NOT the original). (2) No strings attached (like DRM). (3) It's 100% legal. (4) By purchasing used cd's, you aren't giving a cent to the RIAA.

If that's not a no-brainer, I don't know what is (for music lovers, at least).

Here's what I do. I keep a list of albums I've always wanted to buy, and every few months I order 5 or 10 of them. Average price is $6 or $7 (I won't spend more than $8 per cd) and they are generally in very good condition. I simply FLAC them, throw away the jewel cases, and put them in my folder for storage. 100% legal and my cd collection is getting HUGE.

The real deal, cd-quality audio which can be converted to any format you want, the original cd and inserts, and no DRM, for $7 on average -- what could possibly beat that?

Oh, and did I mention that by buying used, you're not giving one red cent to the RIAA?

Is it dumb to pay $10 for an album's worth of lossy mp3's when you can buy the real deal from a used cd store like this one for $8?

I'll go with a resounding "yep". (Seriously, I have nearly doubled my music collection by purchasing used cd's from online stores. I have never bought a lossy music file and never will -- there's just no good reason to when you can get the real deal for the same or less.)

Whatever you do, don't toss the cds you do have. Sell them to an online used cd store like secondspin.com, so I can buy them all up myself. ;)

Seriously, I've amassed quite a collection of albums this way. $6 to $7 on average, great condition on average. I simply copy the music to my hard drive in flac format and put the album away for storage. Then I can convert to any lossy format I want, any time I want, as many times as I want, all the while retaining the original lossless flacs.

Or you can buy used CD's from a store like secondspin.com (no I'm not affiliated other than being a satisfied customer) for $6 or $7 and get the real deal. Then you can record to any format you want, lossy or lossless, to your heart's content.

Sure they are used, but still in very good condition (some appear brand new), and the selection is incredible for a used CD store. With such a great service available (and that's not the only one), I just don't understand why anyone would buy lossy tracks over the internet for more. Is the itunes store really that convienient?

Try this.

No, I'm not affiliated, but I do purchase about 25 CD's a year from them. Great selection, and not a cent goes to the RIAA.

So yeah, I buy used cds. 5-10 a month, in fact, and I pay an average of $7 per cd, usually from online vendors such as this one, who have an amazing selection and great quality.

One more thing, I'm damn proud of the fact that I buy used and not one cent goes to the RIAA or the state-corrupted music industry in general. When I want to patronize a band, I do it by going to live shows, or simply spreading the word about the band.

I'm with you, except for one small detail: I buy used cd's. Here's why:

1. I get the original, lossless audio and the freedom that comes with it (which is not just nice, but critical IMO). Same as a brand new cd.

2. It's 100% legal, and rightfully so.

3. I pay an average of $7 per cd, which is barely 1/2 the cost of a new cd at best buy. Some can be had for under $5.

4. The cd's are in very good condition. Some even appear brand spanking new, as if the previous owner listened to it once and got rid of it.

5. The RIAA doesn't make one red cent off my transaction.

6. I get the actual, origial album, complete with insert and artwork.

My cd collection is a 100GB FLAC archive (almost 300 discs) and I play directly off it. The actual discs are stored away for safe keeping. The place I normally buy used cd's from is secondspin.com, and no, I'm not affiliated.

If it is, well... I've chosen to do without (which is a royal pain).

You don't have to do without.

Try this. (No I don't work there.) I buy about 5 used CD's per month, limiting myself to $8 or less per CD. I've never gotten one that I'd return (due to scratches etc). This is truly the best of all worlds: (1) you get the real deal, the actual lossless, DRM-free original, plus the inserts; (2) you pay less than half of what a brand new CD costs; (3) it's 100% legal and ethical, just like buying a used book; (4) you aren't giving one red cent to the music industry.

I honestly can't understand why more people aren't buying used. It's so simple, it's brilliant. The only downside is that you might not find the absolute latest releases. For me, that's irrelevant because I'm not looking for the absolute latest.

Damn straight. If you want the real deal, you're going to have to puchase the actual cd. Or better yet, buy it used from secondspin.com (no I don't work there). I buy about 5 used cd's from them every couple of months, copy them to my hard disk in FLAC format, and put them away for storage. Most of them are in excellent condition, certainly worth the $5-$8 I spend on them. The selection is huge. And, when you buy used, you're not giving a cent to the RIAA.

Having the original cd opens up all the possibilities. You can convert to any format you want, lossy or lossless. You have the original disc and book inserts. It's 100% legal. You aren't locked in by DRM or any one format. Buying used is really the perfect way to build your music collection.

But do you wish you could? You can, without giving a cent to the RIAA. Buy used! I buy 2-3 cds a month from secondspin.com, stuff that I've always wanted but never got around to it. My limit is $8, which is their average price for a used cd. Some are as low as $5, and most are in excellent condition. They have a pretty extensive selection and a good search feature. I buy the cds, copy them to my hard drive in FLAC format (lossless), and just put them away in storage. I've bought 20-30 cds this way so far and I think it really is the perfect way to acquire music: (1) it's perfectly legal, (2) it's the real deal, cd quality, book inserts and everything, (3) I'm not giving a cent to the RIAA.

Also forgot to mention XMMS and my custom playlists, which is part of my "management software" solution. I've got it all covered!

Why purchase a lossy itunes "album" for $10 when you can have the real thing for $8 or less? One more thing -- when you purchase used cd's, you aren't giving a cent to the RIAA.

Check out secondspin.com for a huge selection of cheap, quality used CD's. I buy around 5-10 used CD's at a time (no I am not affiliated with them) and simply FLAC them into my archive, then store the originals away. My limit is $9, and even in the $5-$8 price range I find all sorts of rare CD's that you won't find in the music store. I don't care if they're perfect condition because I only want to FLAC them, but even so, a lot of them are nearly perfect condition. None are what I'd consider bad condition. And, as you say, buying used CD's doesn't put a cent into the RIAA's pocket.

and not for the reason you expect.

He sees it (charging over 20 bucks a cd) as a litmis test for finding the artists who are making music worth while to buy at a higher price. A "tax on shitty taste" he calls it. Not only would it weed out the weak but force artists to give you more bang for your buck (instead of DMX squozing out an album every 8 months like he did).

Besides, if you are only interested in one song from an album, isn't a buck in change better than 13+ dollars for the same fitness?

Of course there are other options. Say secondspin.com which is an online used cd/dvd store. Just bought a disc there for a 1.99 that is out of print. Even counting in S&H I got music for half the price of iTunes.

Well I'll be damned.

I've got a new plan for aquiring music: 1) Purchase used CDs from Second Spin (no money to the RIAA); 2) rip and save in lossless format; 3) sell CD back to local used CD chain (or a friend). The net result is a perfect copy of the music for little or no money.

Tell me again how this is legal? Simply because I own the physical media of my backups and there's no requirement for me to destroy it?

So how about ripping copies of rental DVDs? Gotta make sure my kids don't scratch those fragile DVDs. :)

Am I the only one who prefers owning the physical media? I have 9+GB of MP3s and probably less than a dozen of them are from albums I don't own.

The argument that there isn't any good music to buy is bollocks. What was it, 27,000 new titles last year, how about over the last 40 years? I personally find out about new music by talking to friends with similar taste. If I hear about a new band I can download tracks off of Kazaa, and figure out which albums I want to buy (although from the sounds of things, I'm the only one who does this).

All this being said, I do not contibute positively to the RIAA's statistics because I only buy second hand CDs

Now is the time to boycott the RIAA. It's not that difficult, really! If you're going to buy a new cd, check against this list. You'd be surprised how much good music doesn't belong to those labels. If you MUST get that Avril Lavigne CD, buy it used. Sites like SecondSpin have a fairly large collection, or you can get it off ebay, or at your local record store. If you can't manage to find a used copy, pat yourself on the back. You found a CD published by an RIAA company that is actually good. That surely has to be a sign of the end times. What do you do then? I guess you'll have to exhibit self-restraint. Or if you have a peg-leg, resort to less-legal means.

The point is, don't let the RIAA get a dime of your money.

/me waits for obligatory comments about boycotts on /.

Unfortunately, this means not listening to some of my favorite bands anymore...

There's always the option of buying used CDs, where the label (and unfortunately the artist, but there are other ways of compensating them, such as merchandise and concerts and fairness).

Just a thought, for those who really enjoy artists who happen to be slaves to the big labels...

Yeah, I know I saw a Sony-distributed movie recently, but I intend to be more vigilant in the future.

If you really need your corporate media, buy it USED. Half.Com is a good place to start. So is Second Spin and Powell's.

Stop buying new DVDs and CDs. Stop going to movies. Maybe even get rid of your cable service, because the cable companies pay their tribute to the MPAA and the RIAA too. Take the money you would have used on new DVDs, new CDs, movie tickets and cable bills and donate it to the EFF.

And for crissake FAX YOUR CONGRESSCRITTER! And like Zappa always reminded us, Don't forget to vote.

And your point is...?

Let's face it, the overwhelming evidence is that Napster didn't hurt the sales of CDs overall.

Certainly there were cheapskates and penny-pinchers determined to suck down all the music for free without spending a cent on CDs, but the overwhelming evidence shows that most people found music they liked on Napster and then decided to buy some of it. Guess what? The ones who used Napster primarily as a way to avoid paying for music were usually too damn cheap (or broke, or both) to spend money on CDs anyway. The music industry has lost nothing on those people. (As much as the RIAA would like you to believe that an individual listening to an "illegal" copy costs them money, it just isn't so - unless they stole the CD from the store.)

For people who, for whatever reason, spend a lot of time at the computer but little time listening to radio or whatever this was a good way to expose them to music that they might want to buy. (And how convenient - download a song you like through Napster, then click on Second Spin or CDNow.com and buy the album so you can listen to it in the car.

Frankly, I'm not upset that Napster's gone - it's caused a lot of people to stop looking for mainstream music on Napster and to look on MP3.com and other sources for independent music. My music purchases will be 80% to 90% independent in the future. There are a few groups I like that are still on major labels, like XTC and Robyn Hitchcock... but otherwise, I'd rather spend my money with the little guy who isn't sticking it to me.

Exactly! Give that man a cigar, or a spliff, or whatever floats his boat!

I will not buy new CDs unless the company that puts it out is NOT a member of the RIAA. I will not buy DVDs put out by signatories to the MPAA. This way, I do not have to deprive myself of the music and movies I like. It's great.

Here are some places to check out:
http://www.secondspin.com/
http://www.half.com/

And even more importantly: support indie music! Support indie movies! Create your own music/movies, then SHARE AND ENJOY!!! This is the real reason Big Media is quaking in its boots.

As an alternative, if you simply must have currrently popular music, get it from secondspin.com or switchhouse.com or any other shop that sells used CDs. They sound just as good as the original, and more importantly, you are neither breaking any laws (yet) nor supporting the RIAA. Write your congress-critter anyways. It's the only way to keep your liberties.

In the rare event that I buy big-label stuff, I only buy via secondspin.com. I may need to wait a few months, but I've always been able to find what I wanted eventually.

The only exceptions I've made to this policy in the past 4 years have been buying my wife a CD or two, and the latest Enya album (I simply couldn't wait).

I do stream a lot more off of MP3.com these days, too.

I'm boycotting, too. Well... sort of.

I refuse to see news movies, or buy new movies and CDs. I buy from sites like SecondSpin to get stuff. In the past month I've purchased a Matrix DVD and a Phantom Menace VHS tape. Prices are competive with new (they ought to be!), and I get that warm fuzzy of knowing the MPAA and RIAA are not benefiting from my purchases in any way.

Now if I could find a place with Enigma's latest CD that is used...

Don't forget to boycott big music labels and movie studios.

I've been doing this for about 18 months now. I haven't bought a new CD or movie title during that time, and I have no plans to do so in the near future.

Instead, I buy exclusively from places like Second Spin, which sell used CDs and DVDs. I don't mind buying new pr0n DVDs once in a while, as those studios aren't in bed with the major media companies.

Yes, I'll grab a current hit single once in a while via Napster. I certainly don't loose any sleep over it.

To quelch my need for new music, I've recently been tuning XMMS to the "Hi Fi" channels on MP3.com and, quite frankly, there's a lot of good music out there. I was going to bring a radio into my cubicle at work, but the streams I find online are usually so much better. I'm slowly weaning myself from the top-40 stuff on the radio.

The MPAA & the RIAA must bend with the coming storm, or they will break.

-Legion