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Music Downloading not Entirely to Blame
Outlyer writes "A recent article in The Economist discusses the proximate causes for the decline in music sales. Of some note is this quote in the article:
"According to an internal study done by one of the majors, between two-thirds and three-quarters of the drop in sales in America had nothing to do with internet piracy. [...] Other explanations: rising physical CD piracy, shrinking retail space, competition from other media, and the quality of the music itself. But creativity doubtless plays an important part." The article discusses in some depth the short-term viewpoint of the majors and why that is likely to be the dominant problem, not the internet bogeyman."
I switched from buying new CDs to buying used ones. It saves money and puts dents in the RIAA statistics.
Well, at least we can be reasonably sure that the RIAA higher-ups will read it. Not that they'll listen, but they'll at least read it.
Is this article news, or merely that is covered by the Economist? Studies pointing out the drop in music sales are mostly due to a lack of stuff people want to buy are legion.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Where I live, everybody downloads, the internet service advertize showow much faster you'll get your music, and the teens don't even think of buying music.
Retailers are in bad shape in S. Korea.
Put identity in the browser.
May I be the first to say ... "No shit!"
Who doesn't like free music?
I don't buy music because it all sounds packaged and the same to me. I'll buy a CD when something good ocmes out. I'm sick of the labels blaming the internet for their crappy products not doing well.
According to an internal study done by one of the majors, between two-thirds and three-quarters of the drop in sales in America had nothing to do with internet piracy.
OMG, like I am..sooo SHOCKED to hear that!
These people will never "get it"....
Did they ever think their current business process and ATTITUDE towards its customers could be the problem????
But I am afraid it won't stop the bad bad internet from being blamed.
This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
Obviously "Tainted Love" was the pinnacle of musical creativity in the world, and CD sales were bound to decline.
"Tainted Love ... oh, oh, oh, don't touch me please"
Have we been waiting for this a long time?
Anyways, I buy a lot of my music off the street, literaly. A lot of bands down here in BsAs are going the way around the musicindustry and publish their own records, playing on the streets for publicity..
They tricked me, anyways..
The reason I usually don't buy CDs is because 90% of the mainstream music sold out there is simply SHIT.
[alk]
Question is, will this really make any difference at all? Not likely... these companies have their minds made up that the internet(s) is(are) the cause. It's interesting that someone had the balls to write it up especially in an economical media outlet but it won't change anything.
Not a real shocker but nice to be higher profile.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
I am not a big music buyer, mostly because I can't get the music I like to hear (classical, folk and Celtic) at local stores such as Wal-mart, and the local folkie store is off my beaten path and has little parking. I would use a service such as this eagerly. And yet, everyone seems to focus on the indie rock scene and the big rock/pop/hiphop acts, and don't think that online distribution might mean the flowering of genres with smaller fans, such as folk, bluegrass, opera, choral, or whatever!
Frankly, the best way for a business to thrive is not to have a radical change of the business model. Instead, incremental changes and continual improvement (hitting singles instead of homers) will get the job done. One incremental change can be to make sure that downloadable music isn't just for young listerners.
Nyekulturniy... Proudly confusing readers and editors since 1981!
nobody points to the real reason music sales are dropping? Today's music isn't based on music, but on image and one hit wonders... Just look at Hoobaskank, one formulated bubble gum song, and they are headling big shows... what have they done since??? And don't forget about the eye candy... Jessica Simpson, Brittany Spears, couldn't sing their way out of wet paper bag, but with the volume down...
According to an internal study done by one of the majors, between two-thirds and three-quarters of the drop in sales in America had nothing to do with internet piracy.
So, one-quarter to one-third of the sales drop is due to internet piracy? I can see why companies might be worried about this. (And everyone who votes me down because I won't subscribe to their "waaa waaa waaa! I want my music for free!" is a wanker.)
Its the economy stupid! obviously those at the top didnt see that millions of jobs were lost because of the economic downturn that was accelerated thanks to 9/11...
hmmm, food or the new Britny Spears CD... tough call
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I have an iPod and I no longer buy CD's. I mostly listen to live shows that are freely available all over the net. However, when there is an album that I would like to buy, I just get it from iTunes (or other online music store). For me the benefits are:
1) Don't have to go to the mall.
2) Same price as a CD or cheaper.
3) I can back it up on a CD.
4) I have a copy on my HD.
5) I can convert it to different formats.
6) Don't have to go to the mall.
7) I can listen before I buy.
8) If I like only one song, I don't have to buy the entire CD.
9) Don't have to go to the mall.
God I hate the mall...
Yes, it is a hard choice. They BOTH suck.
The CD boom was people format shifting to CD media, many people own legit vinyl, cassette and CD copies of the same album. I'm not in a real hurry to switch formats again and the great thing about digital music is that I can make unlimited copies without the sound quality degrading, this is the ONLY reason I re purchased on CD's, and if they want to make it hard for me to do that I'll stop buying.
The drop in sales has fuck all to do with filesharing, and everything to do with the witless commercial pop that saturates the market; everybody except the RIAA knows it!
I think the main reason why music sales have declined is indeed an innovation problem - but it may not be the record company's fault (for once).
In every decade you had technical innovation - whether it was 4 track recording in the 60's, the emergence of prog rock and sophisticated recording techniques in the 70's, synthesizers in the 80's, or rap/rock fusion in the 90's.
Question: What has the 2000's offered that previous decades have not? Answer: Not too much. For the first time, there's no real innovation in the sound itself - there's simply nothing that hasn't already been done, no tech that a generation can call their own.
If the music seems lame, it's because it is - it's all been done before.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
(The boardroom of a major record label)
"Guys, we have a major problem. Sales are at an all-time low, and if you all want to be able to pay for your BMWs and 2-million dollar mansions, we need a new strategy!"
"Now, our attorneys and marketing boys have been hard at work, attempting to pass th blame for this dilemma for months on such things as piracy of all kinds. However, these conclusions just haven't explained the numbers, and we have just recently uncovered a shocking statistic that cannot be ignored. Please consult the chart on the wall to see how the numbers break down."
Internet piracy: 9%
Media piracy: 7%
Any other kind of piracy that we couldn't pull out of our asses: 2%
We sign crummy bands and try to pass their music off on people who actually have taste, despite all of our really expensive research: 80%
But God demonstrates his love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - (Romans 5:8)
no harm != legitimate in many people's opinions.
Why do everybody attribute poor cd sales to poor music quality? Is mainstream music really worse now than it was 5 years ago?
I have bought 2 cd's in the past 3-4 years, not because I am pirating or downloading, but because I firmly believe the RIAA are the biggest crooks in this picture and refuse to support them.
I believe the RIAA will rape their artists every which way they possibly can, and cheat them out of their royalties at every chance. Given this, I find it more than a little ironic that the RIAA campaigns against piracy by boldly proclaiming that downloaders are cheating the artists.
Here's to hoping that sales continue to decline until the RIAA crumbles entirely out of the picture.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
The article mentioned that large retailers, such as Walmart, are dedicating less and less space to CDs due to the increase in other entertainment media, I would suggest that an easy way to get around with would be to develop terminals that allow you to browse a library of CD's, sample a portion of each song, and then if you choose to buy the album, burns and labels the CD for you on the spot. This would eliminate the need for shelving for CD's, as well as allow retailers to have a much wider selection of music available.
This is a study, just like the other studies made. Because this one says what you want to hear, doesn't make it 'truth.'
The fact of the matter is that unless we can relive history and remove music piracy, we will never know for sure if it was 'the cause' of the decline or not.
This is another study and should be treated just like the ones that 'say piracy is the reason for the decline' are.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
This begs the question that if the RIAA's own internal studies show that downloading isn't totally to blame, why would they go out of their way to risk the alienation of customers with lawsuits, to stop something that's not even the problem?
Whoah! _500_ sales! Verily we have seen the future of the music industry! Assuming, of course that Kazaa is willing to "do deals" with musicians who don't have both wonky beats _and_ sleazy melodies.
Anyhoo. Physical CD piracy? Where did that one come from? That can't be a big factor in US sales, can it?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
It makes me always laugh to see all this people pretending that the music sales decrease comes from the downloads from the Internet.
Young people simply don't have a extended budget. Ten years ago a normal teenager didn't have to pay 50 dollars a month for his mobile phone. This is the price of 4 CDs ! Some of us didn't even had a computer too ! These are all things that makes that we CAN'T buy more CDs, because we have less money for that. Sure, this is only a part of the explanation, but I don't see much people who invoke that argument.
Just blame Britney Spears and other such manufactured people.
I don't get it.
TFA mentioned a reason why CD sales were dropping is that CDs are competing for shelf space with other, higher-value forms of entertainment.
Which is true (that the OST CD is worth almost as much as the full DVD is puzzling at best), but missed a more important point.
Two words: Cell phones.
Here in Europe most basic plans cost EUR 40 a month. That's a sizeable share of a teenager's allowance. That's at least 3 CDs a month they won't buy.
Recently I've bought more music than usual, but not from any major record labels. The last 5 or 6 CDs I bought were via mail order. Especially from these guys.
This isn't exactly a head-on solution, but here's some particularly nerdy outlets for non-RIAA music:
Nectarine Radio - streaming C64, Atari ST, Adlib, etc. music
OC Remix - huge repository of submitted video game remixes
Streaming radio of above
Metroid Metal - Surprisingly well done
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
I guess I'm a pirate.
Arr matey, two disk set off the starboard bow, arr. Raise the mizzen mast and spin up the CD Burner.
That being said, WTF is a Physical CD Pirate? I think all of the music we download physically comes from somewhere in the physical realm. Maybe they mean thieves, people who actually steal the CDs off of shelves? I don't see that happening too much.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
Personally, I find that CD's are just too expensive for me. I don't care that much about music, and can better spend that $15 elsewhere. Also, I just haven't found anything I really like in a while, though unlike most /. I blame this on my own narrow mindedness, and not the new music sucking. If the new music sucked so much, why does it sell so many copies? Most people tend to get stuck in a certain era of music, don't like the new stuff? Don't act suprised about it, you're getting old. Every generation tends to think that the next generation's music sucks, that's not going to change for you, you're not special, get over it.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
H-H is horrid imo - endless, short, electronic loops of intensely annoying sounds, weak and/or stupid lyrics, bad singing (if they even sing at all), it's overly produced, etc. etc.
Any new CDs I buy now are established artists who've been around for a while and have a new CD out; or I'll just buy some 'classic' stuff.
Once uninventive, regurgitated hip-hop took over, the industry pretty much lost me.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
The economist reaches a very broad audience of VERY intelligent people, and also people who tend to have a lot of money, or be in positions of power. Hopefully they can recongize the situation for what it is, and I think the economist will give the position some credibility.
We have to start somewhere with educating the people in charge, and I'd say the Economist is a hell of a source to have touting this position.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
It's often beem said on Slashdot that the real reason for the decline is the decline of the quality of the music. That's possibly true, but I'd like to know how a reliable study could report on it objectively.
Music tastes are extremely subjective. If anything, the objective measures would tend to suggest that the music is getting better, in the sense that it's been focus-grouped to death. Somebody out there is saying, "Yes, we like it. We like it so much we want to copy it off the Internet or from a friend's CD."
It seems likely that in fact the focus-grouping and hit-promoting have lowered the quality of the music to a least common denominator, but I'd love to know how this industry report went about measuring that. In the end that measurement will describe how the music changes from here. The executives who make the decisions aren't artists and don't use artistic judgment to decide what to produce. They look at numbers and poll likely group members to see what will sell. They know that people will only buy what they like, so I'd love to know what measure of "like" they're using for this study that's different from the ones they're already using.
I was never really one to love one performing artist or another anyway.
You can sure fit a lot of midi's on a CD, and the RIAA doesn't seem to be gunning for you yet. I think the IP enforcement is much muddier, and they don't have a virtual monopoly on all the rights involved.
Midi is less final form than mp3, so you can easily change speed, instruments, etc., making it far more flexible if you like to be more involved in music than listening to exactly the same performance over and over.
I wonder what the appropriate open-source license for Midi is? I suspect a million monkeys might occasionally come up with better arrangement and original music and new styles once they had the tools and non-final-form exchange media.
Those annoying peices of tape that outline the case of the CD making it a challenge in itself to open the CD.
Much like the Bush administration, large corporations tend to ignore facts and instead create their own "phacts" that look much nicer.
If the Economist shows enough people that it isn't the internet boogeyman, the RIAA will show that it is phactually the internet gremlin. And the power of a Phact is relative to how much $$$ its backers have, easily overpowering simple facts with a little advertising. Or a lot.
The music industry has a hard time accepting that they sell an elastic good - when prices go up, sales go down. That's really happened to concert tickets. $60 tickets for second-tier bands went unsold all summer. Several major tours were cancelled. Lollapalooza was cancelled due to slow ticket sales.
The endless reissue of "oldies" is self-limiting. By now, everybody who wants any Beatles/Stones/Doors CD presumably has it.
But the fundamental problem is much simpler. The outlets that sell audio CDs don't just sell music. They also sell movie DVDs, which provide more entertainment content at a lower price. Audio CDs ought to sell for about $3.99 to $5.99. There's no excuse for audio CDs by mediocre bands costing more than DVDs of major, big-budget films.
We'll get the coast guard right on that.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
...quality. That is so full of it! You know, for such bad music, alot of people sure seem happy to download it to listen to it alot.
It also seems to me that RIAA is activly narrowing it's target audience. When I was in college, record companies were marketing bands to this age group. Alternative bands like REM were huge sellers. These days, REM has problems just trying to get support from their record company.
These days, RIAA markets to the 9 to 15 age group and that's tough if you don't like boy bands/Brittany/Jessica/Eminen.
It seems to me that $17.99 is simply too much to pay for 36 minutes of music... yes, "albums" have gotten shorter, not longer, as the price has gone up!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
The article blames a 'quality problem' acknowledged by music company executives....
You fucking worthless pieces of shit I hope your children roast in hell and you get bone fucking cancer.
You made the 'quality' you bitches. You created the no talent pole dancer 3 note diva Beonce bitch. You created 500 boy bands. You created the same recycled crap that is you got from having the Devil skull fuck you and then shit in the brain hole. You created yet another blongbling sideways hat muthsfuckah and his peeps rollin up. You created this radioactive wasteland of shit and glory.
We want you to fucking choke to death on your 'quality'. That's why your sales are down. Because you, and everyone like you sucks.
But like any other crackhead no account worthless cocksucking Ho you blame anyone but you. You blame the internet, China, your own customers, the government, the courts---- anyone but you you.
But you suck. And your friends and loved ones know you suck. You are shit and everyone hopes you die slowly.
Here's a 'proximate cause' for you: Creative accounting. Note that this is based on an internal study. The industry has in fact been making more money the past five years, and lying about it.
Why?
The purpose of pursuing piracy is to gain monopolistic control over *MEDIA* so that only 'the big six' (or is it five now?) can publish music. This will put independent artists out of business, in fact all record companies that aren't universal/warner/bmg/emi/sony. This is because they are trying to madate in law that all media must have digital protection. The protection will be crackable (it always is), but controlled by the RIAA, so they control who publishes.
With the advent of home studios and the digital revolution.. and internet promotion there is less and less need for a bloated recording industry. They know this.
People may pirate eminem but he still sells >10 million copies an album.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to listen to either. How about a nice sampling of Mozart?
Here's my prediction:
1. RIAA will read the report, and ignore it. They will continue to press for legal protections in the courts and congress.
2. This will cost them money, but not increase profits. They will insist on MORE legal protections.
3. This will cost them money, but not increase profits. (Again, because 66-75% of their losses are their own fault.) Cycle repeats till several large producers go broke and technology passes their business model by. Those that survive do so by producing better content.
4. Big government bail-out.... maybe... but at least for a while music should get better.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
I haven't bought or downloaded a Song or Cd since I got my satellite radio "Sirius" I think this is a good alternative and also a possible cure to pirated music. If you think about it you can get uncensored. Commercial free music of all of the new and old hits out there in addition to live talk shows and TV shows all for the price of 1 cd a month. When you go home take you portable docking station in your house.boat.friends car, etc... If not that you have online radio shout cast etc. This was my cure I don't know about anyone else.
It's the exact same thing with the pharma companies withholding the results of studies that are damaging to them. Ditto for the tobacco companies. I wish there was something that forced big companies to tell the truth when they have it.
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
I think that the biggest reason that music sales are declining is that the largest demographic in this contry has finally stopped buying lots of music. The boomers have finally repurchased all the music they have owned on vinyl, eight track and cassette. They are not interested in Ashlee Simpson, Usher, Coldplay or Creed. Most of their children have grown up, so they aren't spending a lot of money there either.
when the economy is not doing so good, and people are short on cash rent & bills and food,clothing come first!, these things are more important than a stupid music CD, i guess the RIAA does not even consider what its like to be the little people...
How many times do we have to hear this obvious statistic ?
Bottom line, the music industry pushes out a pile of crap for the most part and it ALWAYS has - it's just these days, they are reaching critical mass.
The major fault here is the release of an album with ONE popular song on, the rest being total FLUFF.
Consumers are not stupid - well, not that stupid anyway !
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
We already know, and we all determined this years ago when the record industry started blaming Napster for their declining sales...
I call this the "sales attitude". When someone is just a salesman and not a businessman, they tend to think "How much money am I making at this moment?" and not "How much money will I make in the long term?" This kind of thinking does not work for running a business. They have boosted profits since the last big dip in the early 80's, but in the process they have run the entire record industry into the ground. Everything is over-valued from concert tickets to recording equiptment and an adjustment is in the works.
Companies like M-Audio are leading the pack getting equiptment prices down. The internet is driving down the cost of distribution. Artists are getting rid of the middlemen and hopefully, when all is said and done, we will no longer have people making millions for saying "Uuuuuuuh" over and over again.
------- Assumption is the mother of all f$#@ ups.
Used CDs here are $8, new ones are $18... what's happened to the exchange rates? I thought pounds were worth more than dollars? 15 pound sounds like way to much to pay for a used CD! (Of course, European import CDs are more expensive than domestic CDs here)
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
well, i haven't bought a CD from a store in over 2 years. main reason is, a already have all the music i want for now. there hasn't been a new cd from any of the bigger-name bands i like, i support local bands by going to their consert, and buy their CDs. also i can find a better place for $22 to go, like to buying a new game or a good book.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Here is my philosophy... I like 311, good band, but I don't like them enough to shell out 20 bucks for a CD. So I will pirate it. Now I also like P.O.D. I like them a lot, I will shell out 20 for their CD. So, long story short, the RIAA is only gonna get 20 bucks out of me anyways.
... "incoming!! you've got one on your tail!!"
I've been listening to some RNB lately, R.Kelly and a few others. One thing I noticed, is the music video channels for RNB do a better job at playing the music. So, I just grab the videos off my tivo and burn to cd, its high quality and I dont need to buy the CD for the song, when I really just wanted the video.
I havnt bought CD's from major record labels in years, mostly I'll buy a cd at the concert or people putting on shows. A couple CD's where CD's I couldnt find locally and had to order special from smaller labels.
And for daily music, I normally just listen to my paid subscription to Digitally Imported, or at last if its popular, iTunes.
I don't see the need to go buy CD's, most of the stuff I hear, I dont want. The closest thing is the local high school radio 89.5 Cube that plays techno/dance, and then its the remixes I want, and I cant find them.
It's a shame, about a dozen ways to sell me music, and the record industry isn't doing one of them. How about they talk to a customer and ask "How can I sell you music?"
I know if I had a millions of customer wanting to pay me money, I'd figure out ways to get it, other than pissing them off.
But then, I've seen CEO's tank companies for profit, no suprise that the the big labels arnt doing the same. You think the stock holders would do something about it.
It's my contention that people buy less entertainment of all kinds as they grow older. Hence, as a country's population ages, music sales will decrease.
Are there studies that bear on this?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I'll probably get a Flamebait rating for this. But in my opinion (and the opinion of many of my fellow co-workers...) Music just sucks. There are no singers, there are no artists anymore, everyone is sampling the old music and just redoing everything. Talking about the bling, talking about the cash, and talking about "I got 99 problems but uh bitch ain't one". (Nice grammar there Jay-Z!) It's just stupid. The only artists left are Prince, (sits for three or four minutes) can't think of any more right now..
Sure there are re-releases today still but the numbers dwarf in comparison to the beginning to 90's. This was a point brought up during PBS Frontline "The Way the Music Died" documentary on the troubles of the music industry. I seem to remember that Frontline pointed out that sales relative to new albums have actually gone up. But the overall sales have gone down because older albums sales have decline greatly. This Economist report doesn't address this point.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I've never bought from them, but I bet their prices are pretty good; there are always people lined up buying off of them. And nary a cop to be found.
In Toronto, same deal. Go to Chinatown, and there are literally dozens of shops selling all sorts of illegal bootlegs of movies and music.
Perhaps the RIAA/MPAA needs to change their focus. Much like how M$ goes after the distributors of pirated copies of Windows. M$ really doesn't care all that much about the hobbyist cloning a copy of XP Pro; they're concerned about the pirates selling copies to moron endusers who don't know that they're buying a fake.
Today's music ain't got the same soul
I like that old time a-rock 'n' roll
the one thing that gives them nightmares and keeps them up at nights.
it's not p2p or theft or piracy or even used CD/DVD sales.
their biggest fear is that you tune out and stop watching/listening altogether. that would mean not only no sales, but no advertising revenue either.
if this happens on any scale, i expect the mpaa/riaa to push through 1984/maxheadroom style legislation requiring a TV in every house turned on 24/7, and make it illegal to turn them off.
...the good RIAA sanctioned music stopped at about 94.
Actually I have heard a lot of better music coming from the Indy space (ie. podcasts)
From Garageband.com or Magnatune.
"If you have done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways" -- hhgg
90% of the kids that love the music don't have the money to buy the CDs. By the time they get to be the type of wage earning adult than can afford CDs, they're already turned off by the record companies.
That's real smart marketing. Price your products to the point where your biggest market can't afford them, do anything to stop them from having them, play shi*t on the radio, do nothing for the little bands, and then complain your market share is down.
And everyone, including the RIpping off Americans Always association (RIAA). We know how much it costs to produce a CD and how much it costs to package them and distribute them, yadda yadda. The cost to the consumer, now that CD's have dominated the market for gosh, is it now 15 - 20 years?? - should be MAXIMUM $10.
Yet I can walk into a Tower Records or any other music store and see the latest attempt at music from Ja Rule for $15.99, which is insane, unfair and the real reason most of us download our music.
If the RIAA had any brains, they'd do what Apple is doing, and offer high quality downloads at a buck a peice so that I can create a nice 10 song album for 10 bucks.
I think the reason music isnt selling as much as it used to is because people are realizing how much it sucks now, like bloody hack writers just trying to make money with no valuable content, like brittanys newest for example, my prerogative, sounds like a bloody song for sesame street, i bet she couldnt even spell it, i know i needed dictionary.com
"Luck is a tag given by the mediocre to account for the accomplishments of genius." -Heinlein
I switched from buying new CDs to buying used ones. It saves money and puts dents in the RIAA statistics.
Good idea, as is downloading legally free music and buying albums that aren't made by majors from decent shops.
(Shameless plug: My free music.)
You preach on, gelfling!
--- Ban humanity.
It's just good music went to the underground, where it belongs. Pick a genre that you like, and look for independent, underground artists in that genre. Sure as hell, you're not gonna find any good music on mainstream TV/radio/WalMart, but we all knew that anyway. As with everything in life, you have to dig deeper to find a real answer.
Time Warp ...
Hey, wow, what am I doing here !
Last thing I remembered, I was reading the inner sleeve of my Madness 7 album which said "Home Taping is Killing Music" while recording it to cassette tape for my buddy.
Now it's 20 years later and Music isn't dead !
Arghgh ! - what's going on !
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
The article doesn't mention satellite radio, but in the USA subscriber bases for both XM and Sirius satellite radio services are growing rapidly.
Don't know what the net effect of growth is. As a one-year XM subscriber, I listen to CDs less, but have purchased a couple a CDs from artists I never would have discovered without satellite radio.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
what record company do you work for?
The "industry" has not been using facts for sometime now, as they rely on marketing spin to get their agenda ( and legislation ) pushed..
We already know the facts.. having the 'economist' restate them is nice, but of no practical value...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
one of the reasons for the decline.
Open Source Music: anotherdreamer.net
Bands have to look for alternative sources of revenue. It is obvious that people download more music. Bands have to look at touring as the money maker.
Internet piracy must have its share of blame, of course, but it's not the only cause, and problably there isn't a only cause.
Other factors may include economic recession, poor quality, repetitive artist offers, rehash of old "hits" in spite of new, refreshing sounds, much broader offer in entertaiment, etc, and the record labels are moving too slow to face these multiple factors.
Of course, the multiplicity of "causes" and the speed at wich the entertaiment industry moves nowadays may harm the diagnostics of the situation, but I guess that the solution must involve some profound changes in the sector.
"A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
CDs are cold and sterile - analytic sounding colorations. When LPs were around I bought quite
a bit. Now, I can't remember the last time I bought a CD.
Umm, if you read the article (which you obviously didn't) it included 90% of what I mentioned in my original post and even though you were trolling your comment does ring true...
I mentioned in my original post that the industry would respond to the Economist's article by saying that it was just a rehashing of Internet forum whining.
Thank you for solidifying that statement.
I've noticed that I, personally, go in phases of music listening. When music is readily available on the internet that are full songs and good quality I am more likely to buy CDs. The more music I can sample, the more likely I will buy a CD. I prefer a CD over mp3s downloaded for multiple reasons: support the artist, better quality, can burn mp3 at desired rates, plays in my car CD player, have a hard copy, etc.
During periods where it has been harder to find mp3s, I've been less likely to buy CDs. I'm not the type of person who will just buy a CD if I have a vague interest in someone (unless I have other CDs from that artists that I have really, really enjoyed). I usually need to know what I'm getting before I drop that kind of money on a CD.
I rarely buy a CD based on the crappy samples provided on the internet. That's just my take.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Once upon a time college radio was good, but the good stations are scattered far and wide now. Most college radio stations have program directors and playlists and feed off record industry kickbacks just like all the others. It's still just the same 40 songs over and over and over, it's just not the same 40 songs they play on top 40.
The newsgroups and the Magnatunes are where it's at.
If you consume music by the CD then of course movies are a better buy.
If you load up your iPod with your CDs (as I have) then each album just grows the collection meaning a day of working allows you to hear random non-repeats for weeks, commercial-free. The need to have 100% perfection disappears when you have a mix. You can develop an appreciation for lesser-known music of an artist in short doses.
Expands your horizon and the synergy actually means you get a lot more for your money.
Oh, and you can be getting work done at the same time!
As for prices, I've noticed that they bounce around a lot here in Canada. The local Futureshop sells a lot of new stuff for $6-15. Best Buy always has new releases at low prices. The used market doesn't save as much as it did... though there are some places that have buy 3 get one free deals. Lower sales has, thankfully, put pressure on prices!
Hey, even I'll download bad music, because what have you got to lose? But actually purchase crap? No way.
...could triple if they market her right. she can really dance.
You can use All Music Guide. Put in some of your favorite bands and see what it suggests, to see which bands are similar. Or check out the genres to which your favorite bands belong, and find possibly interesting bands through that.
Here's the link to AMG. AMG likes you to register, otherwise you won't get all the things it offers (such as full listing of bands in a genre).
For example, if you were to search for some band, you'd find e.g. the genre "Stoner Metal" and from there you'd find some bands, which you might (or might not) like.
I'd like to see an open alternative to AMG. Something which would allow linking!
I do not moderate.
We are experiencing a Renaissance of locally-produced music, from street performers to small bands. Music is no longer the exclusive domain of a handful of mega-conglomerates, but is being taken back and revitalized on the micro scale. Seattle/Portland (near me) support a thriving community of small indepenent musicans producing truly excellent music. It's like the 60's all over again. Not so much "new" sounds, but new takes on the folk/rock/celtic traditions and a resurgence of interest in vocals and acoustic instrumentation rather than synthesized, reprocessed top-40. Complex, muti-layered arrangements that depend on real musicians, not 20 year old pinups with digitally-enhanced vocals supporting their silicon-enhanced figures.
Personnally, I'm excited by the trend, and am actively building a large and varied CD collection with very little help from the RIAA.
I think the biggest reason for the decline in music sales is the "cookie cutter" quality of some of the top selling artists.
Music can either have a very broad appeal (inoffensive and acceptable to a wide audience) or have great depth (the music has a personal meaning to the artist and the audience), but very rarely does it have both qualities.
If the music has broad appeal but very little depth, the audience will drop the artist for the next "flavor of the month" because the music does not really mean anything to them.
If the music has depth, the audience will listen to the music years and years later because it speaks to them.
Many of the top selling artists today (as pushed by the major recording labels) are of the variety that have broad appeal, but no depth.
The artists that have depth in their music, are not well supported by the record labels because, well, their sales aren't very good.
In electronic music alot of development occured in the last few years. The 2000's bore a lot of very talented, and often also very young producers that grew up with the technology of the 80s and 90s around them.
These artists are IMHO the first generation that completely manage to bridge the huge gap between a musical background and the technical side of digital music, producing with unheard quality and innovation. The genre is still in it's infancy and evolving rapidely.
For anyone interested, Frontline produced a very nice documentary about this topic.
u si c/view/
Record labels were once small and not very profitable. However during the 80's and early 90's the music industry saw the introduction of CDs, which compelled people to purchase many of their older albums again, as well as the introduction of new genres of pop music ( HipHop, Rap, Grundge, etc). The combination of these events brought a LOT of money to record labels, and that compelled larger corporations to start investing in the music industry. Unfortunately, CDs and new genres of music became mainstream, and now we have corporate labels who are concerned about quarterly profits... not long term investments. All in all, it's a recipe for disaster... and crappy music.
But... any who... watch the Frontline piece to see what happens.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/m
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
that we can now sample the music before buying it. So we can find out before spending our money on a CD whether the music is crap or worth buying. This has helped consumers to make better purchases. As well we can buy just the songs that we like from online services, instead of the whole CD for just one or two songs we like.
Man. That'd be nice. A "war on X" I could support.
Best Slashdot Co
Remember: "If it's too loud, you're too old." It's not the music that sucks, grandpa, it's just that you're getting old and losing your sense of smell. Once that goes it all tastes the same.
There's a lot of great music out there - just turn off the tv and the radio and listen for it. I'm over 40 and boy am I glad I'm not as old as you!
Mainstream music is only popular for a few months then it's old. So I no longer buy such musics. I find that I prefer classics that transends time. I also find myself listening to a lot of foreign music. When I do get a CD it's only as a gift. If I wanted to hear what is current, I will listen to the radio. I don't have to wait much, as radio tends to overplay popular tracks these days.
segmond
Tainted Love was pretty much the first pop song that tackled AIDS, which was a taboo subject in 1981 when it was released.
Even if you don't appreciate the music itself, at least give it some credit for having a message. Music these days wouldn't dare to touch a subject that could make people angry, it would mean an even further drop in sales.
maybe I'm too old, also, but I just can't fathom why some people like hip-hop. I don't find it offensive - I find it incredibly *boring* - vapid, mindless drivel devoid of any meaningful content. Of course, lots of popular music is vapid, mindless drivel devoid of any meaningful content, but h-h just seems to stand out as being particularly vacuous.
I have over 200 CDs which is a small amount compared to some of the people I know. But I stopped buying CDs because I got tired of buying a CD for one song and realizing the rest of the CD sucks. I mean if you think about it Britney and all the other clones of her from what I have heard have more then one hit song on a CD which makes it worth buying rather then some of the rock groups that have one song and a CD that sucks.
The last CD I bought was Jimmy Eat World which was like a greatest hits CD. I'm glad that I purchased it but with many other CDs I have I'm upset that I spent money on it and once its open you can't return it and to sell it will get you maybe $3.00
I think the fact that we have become more savoy about purchasing things makes it where we spend less money on the garbage that the music industry puts out. Also CDs are a little overpriced. 4CDs= 1Game I would much rather have the game that a company but hours in to make then buy 4 CDs that will sit on the shelf when I realize I only like the hit song that is on the radio.
I wrote about this a while ago.
m l
http://www.summerblue.net/missives/copyright.ht
The major distributors are now in a situation where their product is having to compete with a free rival (P2P). It's hard to compete with free. In fact, all the major distributors have to offer are ease of access, breadth of catalogue and guaranteed quality. This is not worth 15 UKP a CD and 25 UKP a DVD! this painful adjustment is currently what the major distributors are in denial about, and have attempted to perform a minimum-effort resolution, lawsuits, and via DRM.
Our culture is accustomed to copying, because of the VCR, and it is not possible, a la prohibition, to legislate out of existance an act which is widely culturally accepted.
DRM is a brittle solution, since the P2P networks provide immediate and universal distribution of material; if a DRMed product is broken *just once*, then it's gone - it goes public, and that's that. Since DRM is a major investment, and since these companies have a long habit of choosing proprietory security implimentations, I think they're on a burning plane with no parachutes.
All in all, I think the heyday of the major distributors is over.
--
Toby
Buying used is guaranteed, no-doubt-about-it legal. No copyright violation possible: you're buying the same copy as was sold originally.
In such a scenario, that copy has already benefitted the artist as much as it was designed to.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
I'm not talking about file sharing, I'm talking about internet radio stations.
I'm willing to bet that the same people that are buying satellite would listen to internet radio. I think that all the 15 mins of music with 30 mins of comercials really puts off a lot of tradional radio listeners these days. These people are turning to internet and satellite to avoid all this BS. You only need to listen to commerical radio once a month to memorize the playlist.
Turn on internet and satellite and you'll have to listen a whole month to hear the same song again, if it really does play again. Plus with internet radio you can get an artists name (not sure how this works with satellite).
My point is that if it weren't for these new technologies I probably wouldn't have found anything new.
That and AllMusic which is a great resource for researching a genre or even an artist that you like.
"Give me taste, give me funk, give me fury, gimme some more."
Back in my hometown (Rock Hill, SC), a local music shop (Woody's) has a used record bin up front. The records in the bin are $1 each. Granted, you won't find any new stuff out there, but if you have a record player and like the poppinp and crackling of vinyl, you can really make out. Even better, I've discovered jazz and rock artists this way--a whole album for the cost of a soda!
Live free or die
I'll tell you how, because it's painfully true. The music industry has built it's business by offering something new to each generation of kids. Honestly, what's new lately? The artist examples you give have been around since the 90's - at least. I was taling about THIS decade.
It can be argued that music is continually evolving and I agree with that except that the previous few decades have shown far more music innovation that has arguably happened for thousands of years. The presentation of recorded music, ways of recording it, and whole new instruments fueled a lot of original material - stuff you could honestly say didn't sound like anything before it. Maybe I'm old, but I'm not hearing what THIS generation's music is doing to be different.
Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean the music itself has changed much. For instance, there were similarities in New Wave to the preceeding Disco era, but there were extremely distinctive differences (mostly in instrumentation). I'm not sure mating a grunge band with a DJ is all that innovative, but for the sake of argument, I'll bite on that one.
But again, that was soooo... Last decade.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Show me where I can buy a copy of Kraftwerk's latest ("Tour de France Soundtracks") for $12 and I'll buy it immediately. I've been looking online and offline since it was released.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
The girl can't sing (her voice is like listening to concrete on a cheese grater), and she's fugly. She has cankles, she dresses like she wants to be the dumb averil lavigne.
But that face...her sister has an odd face in that it can look really hot, or it looks like a guy in drag (photoshop it sometime if you don't believe me). So she's walks a fine line. Ashlee fell on the fugly side of that line.
Maybe she can dance, but if you can't sing and are ugly, what difference is that?
...before you all start to go nuts hear me out. Sure we know music is starting to suck but there is only so much money to go round and as consumers were are starting to spend our money on other items. For instance I believe video games and DVD sales are booming if recent figures are to be believed . Now that money has to come from somewhere, it is just a sign of changing times and market trends shifting. I personally dont think we will ever see CD sales return to what they were.
You're Signal 11 aren't you?
You dont buy music because you want your farvorite artist to afford his new porsche. You buy it because you want to listen to a good song.
While it is all well and good to support an artist you like, you dont buy music because you like the artist. You buy it because you like the art.
Likewise, the only thing that should matter when buying music (or video games, or going to a movie) is if you enjoy it or not.
END COMMUNICATION
I don't know what sort of music you listen to, but I like a lot of albums as a whole, as they've been produced by the artists and the producers. The promoted singles sometimes get my attention, but I usually prefer to play the album completely.
After all, would you be satisfied watching a 10 minute slot out of a movie or half an act in a play? Those scenes aren't pointless or worthless just because they're not complete. More often than not, if it's well directed, they're developing context for the surrounding material that makes the whole even better.
I'm sure there are exceptions. I don't imagine that most teeny-bop music is much more sophisticated than throwing a collection of songs onto a CD when it comes to album arrangement. (I don't listen to it, so I couldn't say for sure.)
I strongly feel that new music is just awful. These new musicians are horrendous, and shoved down our throats by huge media marketing campaigns. Throw in the fact that hip-hop has become the mainstream and its driven by no-talent ass clowns (Lil' John, Birdy, Chingy, Nelly, etc), we won't see any good music for a while.
100% Insightful
When I was a boy [...] we had this music swapping system called casette tape. [...] I actually went to the music store to buy the album. (Which was subsequently copied and distributed to friends...)
Wasn't that around the time the music industry were warning people...
"Home Taping is Killing Music.... and It's Illegal"?
As we all know, everyone ignored this warning... and the result was that the music industry had entirely collapsed by 1989.
I HOPE YOU FEEL GUILTY! Yeah, I remember back when I was a kid, you used to be able to buy *new* music from shops. Hard to believe for anyone under the age of 20, but it's true.
It's your fault that cool new music formats like the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" never took off (these things are really cool... all metallic and shiny underneath).
Yes sir. Home Taping Killed Music... the industry was telling the truth then, and if they were around today, they'd still be telling the truth.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Now you can easily buy music from the 1940's up till now.
So new music isn't just competing against new music.
New music must be better than all old music to sell...
I know plenty of people buying 80's,70's,60's,50's tunes that won't buy new music.
Even the teenagers are buying 80's music and
90's tunes, and forget anything past 2000...
The music industry has FAILED to improve. The fat guy's are just sitting on their stinkin ass, too lazy to even walk to toilet when needed!!!
Every album should be available in SACD by now - WHERE &#@!$ ARE THEY?
I'm working in the tech sector and we haven't yet had the need for lobbying for increased taxes in order to support ourselves.
I use my iPod to record every one of my lectures (about 12 hours/week), then play them back a few times. I'm sure this is not unique, but it means I rarely even have time to pirate music let alone make the effort to buy it.
On that note, does anyone know a nice forum for trading college lecture audio? If the prof is good (and doesn't rely heavily on visual aids) it can be +5 informative.
In addition to competing commodities outside music, music is just competing with own ever-growing and ever-aging library.
Some else already mentioned that most people have now fully converted their pre-CD era music collections to CDs, so that market verticle is subsisting on folks taking an occasional nostolgia stroll to grab that G'N'R CD that their college roommate stole back in the '90s.
So now, new music doesn't just compete with other current "hits", it competes with the entirety of recorded music. Regardless of genre or quality, this is increasingly difficult-despite the high velocity marketing spin some new artists get.
Have they?
:/
I know, I know... most of the people on Slashdot are probably thinking I've started smoking crack or something, but I can honestly say I can't remember the last time I bought a new rock album. Try bands like Cross Canadian Ragweed or Reckless Kelly, they are more southern rock than country. Pat Green is the godfather of the Texas music scene, although I think he's starting sound more and more "Nashville", check out his older albums. There are too many other names to mention here but i'll put a link on the bottom of the page.
Of all current styles of music this seems to be the only one that doesn't have completely innane lyrics, i.e. the lyrics aren't about how much their life sucks like most current rock songs, doing drugs and having sex like most current rap songs(remind you of 80's metal?, hehe), and finally the lyrics aren't some lame patriotic theme or a corny love song like "Nashville country". Not to mention that the artists actually write their own songs, which can't be said about alot of forms of music popular these days. If you still doubt me, then by all means check out some of these bands. I don't think anyone outside of Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana even knows they exist. At the universities here in Texas I don't think I know a single person who hasn't at least heard of these guys. I hope I helped you find alternatives to the RIAA's list of crap....
-Joe
Links:
http://www.texasmusicguide.com/
http://www.lonestarmusic.com/
http://www.patgreen.com/
http://www.crosscanadianragweed.com/
http://www.texasmusicmovement.com/
Go Blue!
Why should we line the pockets of accouting suits and boy band whores for music that sucks and artists that can't really sing. Britney can't sing live (never has), no can half the "stars" out there. Start promoting some GOOD music and GOOD musicians and then maybe we'll start buying CDs again.
The new Judas Priest album is due out in January. Let's see if Sony actually promotes them more than some porn star-looking wench....
... it's because more people are geting sick of the same BS the RIAA is churning out (both in the musical and legal sense), and routing around them.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I believe the major reason for lackluster sales of CDs is that MTV doesn't play videos anymore and radio is payola, playing the same crap over and over. I think a lot of music buyers have also been alienated by the rise of hip-hop.
As Austrian economists have been saying over and over again, simply because on event (e.g., fall in music-industry profits) follows another (e.g., online sharing of music) does not mean that the earlier event caused the later event. This is the post-hoc ad-hoc fallacy. See this analysis from Mises.org.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
#1 market for music sales is teenage girls. #2 market is teenage boys. Teenagers have small income, but it's mostly disposable. Teenager, as a rule, don't have house payments, car payments, insurance and the like, so every cent earned can be given directly to Jessica Simpson or Fred Durst. And because that is a more dependable cent than what you might expect from, for example, me. For me, if it's a Miles Davis reissue, a Bob Dylan album or something from Richard Thompson that I can actually pick up at B&N, I'll have it quick but for just about everything else, I'll look it up on Allmusic or something, looking for word of mouth and usually not finding anything to listen to on MTV or pop radio. That's my preferences and everyone has their own, but you come to a point where music is of less importance than car payments and my interest in mandolin music or your interest in Krautrock makes a difference. Rhino and Razor&Tie make money repackaging the past, and that's good and wonderful, but the 2-disc reissue of Velvet Underground's Loaded is never going to buy a mansion like a Britney album will.
Look at That Thing You Do. A band had a pop song that was written by the band, and it got turned into a hit single. Within standard pop, I can't recall the last artist who came out without a svengali and with largely self-written songs. Maybe Michelle Branch. To slip back, they're creating their own Wonders these days, and building them with a slightly longer shelf-life so that the initial investment. There's good stuff bubbling up here and there. Personally, if anyone cares, I'd pimp Chris Thile as an incredible artist, but I think I'd push Not All Who Wander Are Lost over his new album, Deceiver, and his work in the band Nickel Creek over either unless I knew your taste. But much of the music I listen to is older than me, and much that isn't is at least old enough to legally drive, and part of the reason for that is that the labels are more interested in pushing what they know they can sell than putting out something they think they might.
If the industry would make it easier for me to hear the music I like, I would be able to buy more of it.
Case in point: my favorite streams over at SomaFM have clued me in to dozens of artists I would have never found on the radio or television.
The RIAA has tried to quash streaming radio for some time now. Make it easier for everyone to find appealing music, and they will sell more of it. Simple logic.
-- yawn. --
The major labels have all adopted a business model which puts a heavy initial investment on an "artist" with the expectation that their popularity, while enormous to begin with, won't last more than a few years. I think people are wising up to the fact that they've bought all these albums that they don't listen to any more and have realized that it's just a waste of money to invest in music with no staying power.
I have been buying fewer CD's than before because more and more crap is being put on them now. The crap-to-quality music ratio is like 3:1. Maybe when they also put a cap of $10 on CD's ($15 for a single DVD, bonus/extra discs not included in pricing), CD sales would go up, because CDs are too damn expensive right now.
Isn't there a clause under fair use where a lower resolution copy of the item may be kept?... A photocopy...
And this is different from when my parents told me the same thing 15 years ago how? Adults never like the popular stuff of the time, but then they're not the target market.
His point was that his kids enjoy classic rock more consitently than modern music...
Music is a huge part of my life and there's plenty of good stuff around...you just have to look beyond your local "all hits, all the time" radio station.
There IS lots of good music around these days... if you look past most of what the RIAA if pushing. But the original poster was implying that his kids prefer the hits of the 60s and 70s to the hits of the aughties.
I had a very similar experience myself as a teenager. There was about 1 year (when I was 14) when I followed the latest thing... until I realized that I got a real buzz out of Pink Floyd, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath.
If only I could have tapped myself on the shoulder and said "you're being hoodwinked by marketers", then I would have been able to enjoy music when I was 14 as well.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Right, but it does nothing to help the artist.
Anyone else the the cover article in last month's Architectural Digest about Rod Stewart's mansion in Bel Air?
This is what happens when people actually belive this bullshit about the necessity of giving money to 'hurting artists'.
Artists are more than adequately compensated by both the payment that they receive from performing and, more importantly, from the connections and networking contacts that they make from being the most in-demand class of people socially.
Nobody needs to feel guilty for not giving money to 'artists', especially rock stars.
It's only when 'artists' completely and totally fuck up their contracts and have all of their money stolen from them (like the Rolling Stones in the 1960s and Billy Joel in the late 1970s) that they have justification for really making a serious effort to suck as much money as possible from their audience.
But even then they tend to overdue it. They find themselves sitting in their mansions and Lear Jets publicly demanding that their fans be put in prison for listing to their music without paying them even more and more money.
Try not to spill your daily cocktail on your antique Chippendale furniture there, Mr. Stewart!
I keep thinking of Denis Leary's comment that 'After John Lennon died, we should have gotten into the Partridge Family bus and gone around and killed every one of these rock stars!'.
-and-
"We live in a country where John Lennon can take six bullets in the chest with Yoko Ono standing right next to him and not one bullet!. Now we got twenty more years of Aaii Yah Yah Yah... Explain that to me, God!"
-and-
"It's good that Jesus died when he was thirty. Yeah, cause if he had lived to be forty, he'd be walking around Jerusalem with a big beer gut and an entourage of twelve disciples doing everything that he said."
With the homogenization of radio ala clearchannel, and their annoying "demographics" and pay-for-play formats, the biggest problem I have when I DO hear the rare song that catches my ear is that I have no way of finding out what it is I just listened to.
iTunes and its ilk have made purchasing new music a bit more viable for me now - the previews are good (I'd buy half the tracks on every Cake album out there, and discard the rest) and I appreciate the "people who bought X also bought Y" references - it turns me onto some tunes and bands I hadn't heard of before.
Similarly, the in-store preview audio systems like RedDot in Barnes & Noble and Borders are pretty useful also.
Corporations need to get over the whole physical media thing, plus make radio a useful method of getting new music out there (why they play the same 50 songs all day long blows my mind - no request mechanisms, no way to throw out new music to expose potential big sellers - it's music by committee)..
sloth jr
However, I don't think you understand art at all. go listen to "Kim" by Charlie Parker - or just about any live performance by Myles Davis - and you'll hear scads of "stolen" riffs... and every on of them original. Tell us how Portishead and Goldfrapp aren't "original" in their musical treatment of those "samples."
Don't blame your lack of appreciation for the neoclassical and post-modern on the artists or the music industry. There's plenty of valid critiques to make of the contemporary music industry, but none of them are apparent in your comments.
My daughter (10 yrs old) can't stand most of the new stuff. She hears the usual britney spears backdoor boys beyonce whatever when she's with her friends. Most of the music she likes is my old 70s hard rock and early 80s metal. I put it on as background music when we play Might & Magic. Her faves are Judas Priest's "The Ripper" (should I be concerned?) and UFO's "Rock Bottom" (specially M Schenker's uber-tasty guitar part in the middle). The other day we were in the car and "When the Levee Breaks" came on. Imagine my surprise when after it was done she looks over at me and says "Now thats a Song!"
Best part - my wife HATES metal, and now she's getting it from me and the kid.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Well, it may be legal to download but not to upload.
So if you're downloading, you shouldn't be anyway.
Not too long ago, there was a slashdot article of an interview with David Crosby on Frontline.
... The people who run record companies now wouldn't know a song if it flew up their nose and died."
He talked about how at some point the tone and attitude of big music changed from being supportive and developing of young talent for the long term to being adverserial and short term profit minded.
I think this economist article is the conclusion and proof of what he was talking about, his thoughts were mostly anecdotal without concrete evidence. From the interview:
"When it all started, record companies -- and there were many of them, and this was a good thing -- were run by people who loved records," he says. "Now record companies are run by lawyers and accountants.
SRC: PBS Frontline
The result of this commercialization and 'selling out' resulted in companies the likes of Sony, BMG, EMI, etc. run by lawyers and accountants. Of course, their first instinct when faced with new technology and a threat is to sue the pants of grandmas and 12 year olds. Way to go corporate America!!!
I'm gonna apologize for my attitude, for this next part but... I got karma to burn.
Evidently, having some lawyer or accountant run a business may just well run it into the ground. There is apparently no substitute, no matter how ivy or expensive your degree may be, for heart and really appreciating the business you work with or work in. Being in it for money will eventually sink the ship. It's love of music that brings out the great music, and brings it to the people, not lawsuits, not cheap thrills turned into overnight successes with the help of Payola (to radio stations -- ahem Clear Channel), over promotion and slick advertising (ahem -- MTV).
I hope Elliot Spitzer rips these companies and the lawyers who run them a new one with his Payola investigation.
M
"I have yet to buy an entire album. What does that suggest?"
Honestly, to me, it suggests that you are a guy who is hooked on singles. You really like top 10 music, and you think you should be interested in albums, but you can't convince yourself that you like a song unless you hear it a bunch on the radio.
Now, I may be wrong. But that's what it suggests.
"OTOH, I wonder how many here are old enough to remember buying music before the LP? "
Probably no one. You'd probably be talking about people who are retired at this point.
Now, if you mean, "Who remembers 45/singles?", then I certainly remember that era, but singles were a throwback to the time of jukeboxes, and for many reasons, singles were discontinued.
I remember 45's as being pressed poorly and were usually warped because the vinyl was thinner. In addition, the 45 usually had the short or radio version of a song. But it was a way to get a hit from a one-hit-wonder band without springing the $4-5 for the LP.
And yes, in the early 70's LP's were routinely $4 when they were first released (probably a loss-leader) and then rose to $5 as they came down on the chart.
Those were the days when album art mattered.
I always feel like the record companies fooled us when CD's came out. Sure, they sounded great, but when CD's were new, vinyl LP's were now $7, and the CD was $14-16, with the excuse that "we are capacity constrained, when we get more capacity, prices will be much cheaper, because these things are cheap to make".
That didn't happen, and I cut way back on my music purchases
And now that I can get CD's for $8 (http://www.bmgmusic.com), I'm now buying CD's again. Its really that complicated and that simple.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
they are totally wrong
:P
the reason there is less sales is because THEIR MUSIC SUCKS
I get that we have to pay for everyone to have medical care, I get that we have to pay for people who have lost their jobs, I get that we pay for roads, bridges, schools and libraries.
But you're equating a tax on blank media to prop up record companies to health care?
No wonder we're screwed up... we can't distinguish between what's important and what's a corporate giveaway.
Cripes. Tell me you're kidding. Please.
You, actually, managed to kill it.
;)
As seen on MTV.
setting up an interview of someone from the RIAA. Have /.ers submit questions for them. I think it should be interesting.
The RIAA has managed to generate sufficient ill will that some people (including me) will not buy another CD, DVD or download from any RIAA-affiliated artist.
Is this showing up in the statistics yet? If not, what can we do to increase the pressure? After all, it doesn't have to be forever-- only until they moderate their behavior.
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
Personally, I find it very interesting how the article shows that the declining music sales are the fault of the Music Industry because of their lack to find another Elvis, and the Music Industry denies that it is their fault shifting the blame to the Radio Stations.
I own a record store that carries everything from the beginning of recorded music and I can say without a doubt that the quantity of good music created TODAY is more than it has ever been in the past. The problem is that the overall amount of music is exponentially more now than it has been. We find ourselves deluged by an immense amount of shit and so it seems like there's fewer classic albums. Frankly, the average person doesn't have time to listen to everything and find the really good things. Most of the real music lovers who used to filter some of the crap and promote the real quality as A&Rs are long gone. What we really have is MBA's churning out marketable artists with no interest in the music.
There are some good web sites that take up the slack like Pitchfork but the best way to find something current (or old) is to go down to your local independent store and ask them. They're the only ones left who are actively filtering the bad stuff and sharing what they know.
I disagree. That's like saying you should go out and steal an item instead of buying it at a garage sale or on eBay or something like that.
Who really cares if album purchases serve as a popularity gauge? Albums, in general, are just advertising for a live show, which is where almost all artists make their money (which you kinda-sorta pointed out). I would say that radio play and concert attendence are a better gauge for popularity.
Well, considering most of the artist I listen to are dead, (70's rock) I listen to XM radio. I get a GREAT mix of music, and with the Sky-Fi2, I can store 8 artists in the memory, and if they pop up on any of the 66 music channels, I can pop right over to them. I'm like others, I buy used CD's when the need arises, but, there isn't anything "new" usually out that I want to listen to. Also, why bother buying them. When I'm at a stop light with the window down, I can hear all the new music coming from the gigawatt stereo in the car next to me...LOL
some of us just can't afford to buy them on unemployment compensation.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
I just wanted to point out that Talib Kweli sucks ass. I saw him open for the Beastie Boys (who kicked ass, btw), and he was just one of these "I'm black y'all, blickety black y'all" type of rappers with no skill, no rhythm, no decent DJ, and no love from the crowd. He sucked.
Some of the other artists you mentioned are great, though.
Wake up music industry! The baby boomers that you depended on from the 60s onward has largely tapered off. Follow on generations do not have the population numbers to replace the 40+ year olds out there. Music nowadays doesn't connect to a general audience as it once did. Why would a 40 year old guy like me wnat to listen to Eminem or Britteny Spares? I don't wear ass-crack pants and don't feel right keeping up with the import crowd.
It would be interesting to see how to decline in CD sales compares to the increase in DVD sales. Im saving my money up for the LOTR extended DVD, So much for buying Music....
Justice Konrad von Finckenstein's decision on that case is currently being appealed.
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http://library.lsuc.on.ca/GL/stay_informed_tech
It's currently down, so use the cache?
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1
Don't rely on the CBC to defend your copyrights, depend on them defending theirs.
http://www.digital-copyright.ca/
You need to avoid it altogether. Don't stop buying from the *aa and then download their stuff. Stop buying and stop consuming their content, and they won't have a case.
Records aren't commodities, so its hard to compare a price the way you're trying to do.
Gas has stayed relatively the same price, cars have gone up in price, but computers have come down in price.
On one hand, CD's never did come down in price. On the other hand, inflation made everything more expensive.
What's hard to fathom is that individual artists seem to have less chance to succeed these days, and when they do, the chances they'll get a good cut of the pie is less.
The only thing that managed to adjust to inflation is record company profits.
So...we can argue all day about whether they deserve it, but its pretty clear that the only winner in all this is the record company. Not artists, record stores or consumers, just the record company execs.
Funny how that works.
It's ridiculous to compare buying used CD's to downloading music. Used CD's are totally legit, downloading music is still a grey area. Who gives a rip if buying a used CD screws up the popularity charts. Who gives a rip if it "doesn't help the artist".
The artist already made their money off that CD. Your buying it helps the store (& it's employees), the person who sold the CD, and it probably helps the RIAA. The numbskull who sold it will probably use the cash to buy the latest and greatest CD. Some people have to have the latest and greatest. I'll settle for something I know I like.
Cheap storage VM.
I have two points to make about this. 1. My kids are entering their 'prime music buying' ages (mid-teens) and my experience mirrors the grandparent post; they prefer music form the 60s-80s; although they do like some current bands. 2. I have a big collection of vinyl from that period (100's of LPs); and it ages pretty well. Enough so that the boys are taking the LPs that aren't easily found on CD and digitizing them and putting them on their iPods. So this either means my experience is different from the parent post, or my taste is (was) better than average.
But occasionally, there is a song on a CD that is a hidden gem, that may be better than any song on the entire album.
A good example "Disturbance At The Heron House" by R.E.M. and less of an example "I Feel Free" ~ Belinda Carlisle off of her Summer Rain album which was a flop.
By downloading the singles you may not get a chance to hear to some really good music too.
Eventhough, I would agree, the majority of tracks are bad and not worth the $12.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny