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Latest "iPod Killer" Takes Aim at the Mini
blamanj writes "ReignCom, has just released the iRiver H10, a 5GB MP3 player with 1.5" color screen and FM tuner. Currently available in Korea, the company plans a US release in January. The price is higher than Apple's iPod mini, but it does have extra features. iRiver has generally gotten good reviews for quality, as well." Update by J : We typoed that as "5MB" earlier, sorry.
5 MB ought to be enough for anybody!
a whole whopping 5Mb of space? wow. I'll go insane listening to the badger badger badger sound track on it!
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
Truly amazing, what will they think of next?!
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
the iRiver H10, a 5MB MP3 player
Who needs 1000 songs, when you can have one?
Well, I'm not going to pay 50 cents for a 5MB player. What a rip off.
I tell ya, the nerve of these people.
Back in my day, I walked uphil bothways, with only 5MB of music to listen to!
Surely there is a mistake... a 5MB MP3 player holds about 1.5 songs...:p
SSdtIGFzIGJvcmVkIGFzIHlvdSBhcmUK
This iRiver product is not quite as ridiculous as some of the other "iPod killers" which added video support for "only" 2x the price, size, weight, and power consumption, but why is it a "killer"?
Unless something can beat the iPod on value, the only thing that will kill it is market saturation, plain and simple.
That's 5GB, not 5 MB.
You'd think they could have at least read the article title, if not the entire article.
Why not get the real ultimate power?
the first post without reading the article or read the article and miss being the first post?!
I'm much more funny, interesting and insightful than the moderators think
That should be 5GB, not 5MB, otherwise it wouldn't be much of an Ipod-mini killer. Speaking of which, can we stop calling every portable audio device that? If it's cool, it's cool. It brings more choice to the consumer. But why should the Ipod die? For some people it's what they want, for others it's not. Okay, buy a different player. Sheesh.
Without a proper flamewar, Anonymous was undecided on what shell to run.
I hope that it's slightly smaller than the size of a stack of 4 floppies
Hear that sound? That's the iPod laughing itself to death.
From TFA: The H10 is capable of storing five gigabytes of music files, compared with the Mini's four-gigabyte hard disk.
Do people actually read these articles before posting?
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
And a bit more than the mini, must be some amazing extra features
5MB is a ripoff, Iriver is more overpriced than Apple. Still given the typo, should be 5GB, that Iriver player looks nice.
YAY, finally a 5MB player, that will be big enough for any music library.
We need someone to error check the posts. This will avoid all the dupe posts as above. Editors --> What do you say, create a post moderator :)
5MB? As in one small song. One character brings marvel to trash.
Everything is an "iPod killer" these days. It's not like Apple made the first MP3 player, they just made one that everyone wants. Heck, I want one, too.
this is my sig
wow, with capacity like that, it will definitely give the mini run for its money.
(i don't expect nerds to have good "grammer" or use there and their appropriately, but come ON! Gigabytes and Megabytes is something this article's poster should be familiar with)
So does the latest "iPod Killer" have "iTunes Killer" software, or is this just another half-baked solution?
And before you know it old Koreans will be demanding bigger drives on these things. All kidding aside though the little toy sure looks pretty from the pics. I just wonder how good the user interface will be? Guess I'll have to get myself a late Christmas present.
I think what these companies fail to "get" and why these iPod killers arnt, are for 2 main reasons... 1st, that thing just screams ugly at me, I cant tell you why, but that screen seems too inset, that chrome lining doesnt seem right and the colors are pretty bland. 2, going with one. A few extra small features will NOT compensate for the enormous caché that having and iPod does. people RECOGNIZE the iPod as "cool". The iPod is a huge product of marketing, I dont see too many iRiver commercials around. Basically, the iPod's "cool" factor keeps it seperate fro shopper's minds in terms of others. There is iPod, and then there is the "other" MP3 players. For other companies to really break iPod's hold, they need a marketing machine. Personally, I hold Apple stock, and hope that these companies keep producing these little "iPod killers" with an extra GB of space, and an FM radio, thinking that'll woo customers.
from article:
iRiver's 5GB H10 MP3 player gets real
Posted Dec 16, 2004, 8:45 AM ET by Peter Rojas
'M' and 'G' aren't even close to one another on the keyboard! Someone's geek rights are in jeapordy.
What the submitter didn't realize is the fact that this won't kill the ipod. Why is (s)he calling it an iPod killer? Some things are so standard that no matter how many competitors they have, they just won't die, or at least won't for a good couple of decades. Look at IBM's PC business. IBM has been outdone in the PC business for years, and they are only just ditching it.
The same is true of the iPod. Even if this was the greatest thing since sliced bread, it would not kill the iPod. People think iPod==MP3 player in the same way people think IE==web browser.
The iPod won't die, stop saying that it will.
Le français vous intéresse?
Is it just me, or does it seem like it would be a better idea to release this thing DURING the Christmas season, rather than directly after it? (you know, when everything else drops to clearance prices to ditch unsold Xmas stuff)
Before you mod me funny, think, perhaps I was insightfully funny?
They don't even bother to read the 2 sentence summary submitted by the users...
Nothing kills iPods better than the Ultimate iPod Killer
Cheap too.
We all live in a #FFFF00 submarine...
Of the first 20 posts, only ONE that didn't mention the typo.
Hey, 5 MB is a ton of space! (BTW, it only plays .midi files)
Everyone claims that the next ipod killer is around the corner, but they forget that most people who buy an ipod aren't doing so for feature sets. I know 10 year olds who want an ipod. Why? Because everyone else has one. They won't buy another brand because it holds 2000 more songs or has an FM tuner.(note: ogg support is one of thes non-mainstream features) Until apple makes a mistake (ugly design, WAY overpriced, crippling features) the demand for anything else will never come close. Truth is, the ipod isn't all that expensive for what you get, most other companies are right around the same price point, it just works for anyone no matter how technically challenged, and it fits the needs of almost everyone in the target demographics.
The iRiver H10... because less is more.
Distracted by the noisy city? Wish you could tune out your boss?
Now you can learn to truly appreciate the rhythmically relaxing sound of music, one song at a time.
This player is $344, almost $100 more than the iPod mini. With educational pricing one can get an iPod mini for $229. People purchasing a mini iPod don't care about photo viewing, and there won't be much room for any once all your audio fills up the 5gb hard drive. Built-in radio? Every walkman I ever owned had pathetic radios that were essentially useless, not to mention radio itself is barely worth listening to nowadays.
Just another example of how Apple just 'gets it' and others attempt to add the kitchen sink and clutter to make up for their design inadequacies.
I think what these companies fail to "get" and why these iPod killers arnt, are for 2 main reasons...
1st, that thing just screams ugly at me, I cant tell you why, but that screen seems too inset, that chrome lining doesnt seem right and the colors are pretty bland.
2, going with one. A few extra small features will NOT compensate for the enormous caché that having and iPod comes with. People RECOGNIZE the iPod as "cool". The iPod is a huge product of marketing, I dont see too many iRiver commercials around.
Basically, the iPod's "cool" factor keeps it seperate in shopper's minds in terms of others. There is iPod, and then there is the "other" MP3 players. For other companies to really break iPod's hold, they need a marketing machine.
Personally, I hold Apple stock, and hope that these companies keep producing these little "iPod killers" with an extra GB of space, and an FM radio, thinking that'll woo customers.
Stupid wrong formatting on previous post
To be a certified iPod-killer, a new product must undergo rigorous tests and examinations. Specifically, it must meet these criteria: 1. Must be ugly as sin. 2. Must be a rectangular prism. 3. Must have a square display of the exact same size as the iPod. 4. Must incorporate a stupid button/barrel system instead a scroll wheel. 5. Must lie about battery life, giving figures that are for 48 k/sec files. 6. Must have an FM tuner, since people buy Mp3 players to listen to the radio, not their music files. I'm happy to say that this candidate meets most of these criteria easily (though it's not quite ugly enough), in addition to adding some of its own: -Useless color screen -Voice recording (since it's the same shape as a tape recorder)
Over, and over, and over, and over again.
Wake up.
jebus, think we could of run that into the ground a little more? I'm new to posting around here...and so far it's hilarious.
because there really is no article, and because the reading comprehension on slashdot is so bad, the article was submitted with 5mb and then posted by the "editor" without modification.
A photo of this had already leaked out about a week ago, but iRiver's new H10 MP3 player just got all official on us. Right now there's only mention of a Korean release (it goes on sale there December 22nd with a list price of about US$344, which is way too high for over here), but everything is about like we'd expected: 5GB hard drive, 1.5-inch color screen (for looking at digital photos), built-in FM radio, 12 hour battery life, and a vertical touch pad that's "reminiscent" of the one found on Creative's Zen Touch (and let's just leave it at that, ok?).
emphasis mine..
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
If anyone has kept up-to-date with apple, you will of noticed a 5GB iPod mini slated for release.
...at least until something comes out that actually kills the iPod?
Yes, there are a lot of pretenders to the throne. However, the iPod is still king, and doesn't look like it's going to be deposed any time in the near future. Maybe one day a descendant to one of the current pretenders will knock the iPod off its throne, but that day is hardly today.
So please, /. editors -- can we stop calling every handheld device released that has a digital audio playback system an "iPod Killer"? Can't we just call them competitors, and then wait and see if they actually do any "killing", or if they just sink into the same morass previous devices now lie in?
Yaz.
All I want is a device that supports all the major codecs - mp3, aac, wma, and of course ogg. I'm not asking for the proprietary DRM stuff. Why is that so difficult?
Can I help it if I "find" music that's encoded in multiple formats? Sure, it all plays fine on my Mac with VLC - but damned if anyone's bothered to make a portable device with the same breadth.
this story
Killer implies it not just rivals the iPod but bests it severely. Ask youself, if both were free which would you pick. Duh, an iPod. Now both are not free but its not a better value so why pick it.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Walkman was to Sony. Many alternatives appeared to compete with the walkman but Sony is still counting the cash...
The market has plenty of room for a few popluar brands of most any product, especially since different people like different feature sets.
More and more though, Slashdot seems to be adding to these cliches and becoming more sensationalist. Maybe Slashdot is becoming too mainstream in it's sensibilities. Go ahead, mod me as flaimbait, troll, or whatever, but I'm simply voicing thoughts I've seen others allude to as well in these forums.
I really like the FM (and AM likely too) tuner feature. I haven't bought and iPod because of its lack on it.
Listening to music is fun and pleasant, but sometimes people want to hear something with less lyric and more up to date content (as for example the news).
All the comments above about the 5mb make me want to invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet... Seriously people, do you REALLY think it's actually 5MB, or that you're the only witty person who noticed that and decided to make a wisecrack?
:)
*ahem*
Back on topic, this will be interesting to watch. iRiver makes some gorgeous MP3 players, and their interface designers generally know what they're doing. Their MP3 CD players are, IMO, the best on the market. They don't quite have Apple's cult following or extreme design simplicity, although their designs are better than most, so chances are this won't be an iPod "killer" - but it might finally be an alternative to it
ClutterMe.com - easiest site creation on the Net. Just click and type.
Not true. I could easily fit 50,000 low-quality .RM files onto one of those things! Sure, it'd sound like someone shaking a bag of pennies underwater for most of the song, but it's "digital" so it must be good.
Still working on the ipod killer but I got the ethernet killer down pat. http://www.tburke.net/fun_stuff/pictures/computers /ethernetkiller.htm
OK That's just too expensive for a 5gb player. I'd probably lose/break it anyway.
*huggles 20gb iPod*
If I was in the market again I'd probably get one of iRiver's other offerings (the 20gb is nicely priced and has great features apparently, though I haven't used it), but I already spent my money before I knew about it.
Side note: just got my 20gb 4G iPod working with USB connectivity in linux; just had to set CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION=n in the kernel config and everything works great!
That thing looks like a pregnancy tester... but with 5MB of music it might make it even more fun....
6. Must have an FM tuner, since people buy Mp3 players to listen to the radio, not their music files.
/. as 1) we're all nerds and think that sounds cool and 2) what the hell is a gym anyway?
To be fair, a lot of people who buy the minis are buying them specifically for the gym. Most gyms also have TVs that are muted with their sound broadcast via FM for those with radios. A built in radio stops you looking like a complete nerd, having your MP3 player on one arm, radio on the other, graphing calculator in one pocket, cell phone on your hip, PDA in the other pocket and god knows how many pocket protectors.
Of course, it's an understandable mistake to make on
Which, I guess, is why I married a personal trainer/physical therapist and still bought her an iPod last week which I get to endlessly worship for it's unmatched UI design while never going anywhere near her beloved gym.
If I gave my fiance an iRiver over an iPod for Christmas, she would not be happy. Despite all the features other mp3 players have, the iPod has become a cultural icon and Apple has done a wonderful job of marketing it. They make it seem as if everyone needs an iPod.
100% Insightful
"A photo of this had already leaked out about a week ago, but iRiver's new H10 MP3 player just got all official on us. Right now there's only mention of a Korean release (it goes on sale there December 22nd with a list price of about US$344, which is way too high for over here), but everything is about like we'd expected: 5GB hard drive, 1.5-inch color screen (for looking at digital photos), built-in FM radio, 12 hour battery life, and a vertical touch pad that's "reminiscent" of the one found on Creative's Zen Touch (and let's just leave it at that, ok?)." ;)
it says 5gb.. so quit your bitching
besides isn't the smallest ipod 10 gb?
this is not a big deal nor a contender for the ipod spot
It costs about $340. The iPod Mini costs $250. 10% of 250 is 25. The player is over 30% (closer to 40%) more than the iPod. And that mistake is in the "professional" Yahoo! News page. Assholes.
That makes about as much sense as a Winnebago with a 1-gallon gas tank.
Heh, you should have known that iPod cannot be duplicated.
iPod iMini iIs iDead
/ Sinserely yours, Rio Carbon
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
I just got an Archos AV400 for Xmas...
Holy crap, are you posting from somewhere that's 4 days ahead of us here in ther good old USA? Mars perhaps? Hmm....
Sony ha
I think this is far better than the iPod mini.
i tem_main_Rio.asp?model=267&cat=72/
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/
5GB
20 hours battery!
under $200
just as small as ipod mini
looks ok aswell
optional software, you can drag and drop if you want.
seems like a better deal to me...
My three year old iPod just got killed - thanks a lot iRiver!!!
At least the first line of the article actually says it's 5 GB.
Or course, reading the article doesn't happen often enough it seems.
I hear 640K is all we'll ever need.
...the "other half" of the portable music equation.
Synching between the computer and the device.
The iTunes+iPod combination is so effortless, it's barely even noticeable: one instant the music's on your computer, the next it's in your hand.
When these devices' FireWire/USB 2.0 synching gets to this effortless state, then maybe we'll start talking "killer." Until then, keep posting the driver links.
In Korea, 5MB iPod killers are for old people.
Join Tor today!
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
...is a nice try, but oh-so-wrong. 50% of any motion the user makes while manipulating it is non-value-added therbligs!
-----------------------
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
Scroll down for some real pictures of it in action.
Ohh but think of all the pretty colors! I wonder if its 256 or 16 million?
-Alan
me: $45 canadian mp3 cdplayer. ~33c -> 700Mb ~66c -> 1.4Gb ~$1 canadian -> 2.1GB ~$5 -> 10.5Gb ---------- $50 canadian for over 10Gb of music. $55 = 21Gb of music. if only the thing played dvds.... >: D
my karma ran over your dogma
http://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-e61dbc532f-7540fe8 d5a-5b9a503cb5
its a machine! you cant kill it since its not alive in the first place
that aside, i dont think its really possible to de-throne the ipod now. Its becomed ingrained into the language, like google - and indeed unfortunately like windows has. ( in a computer sense anyway )
the best they can do is compete, but i severely doubt anything will defeat an ipod now - not without being incredibly impressive. Something i cant really see happening.
They get what, exactly? I'm not so impressed, though I know a couple of very satisfied owners.
The H320 is cheaper and rocks. It has a 20GB drive, does USBFS on USB2 and plays ogg and other music formats. No pesky software or DRM got in the way of me moving my music onto it. I just made an entry for /dev/sda1 in /etc/fstab, plugged it into my laptop and coppied my music to it with Konqueror by sftp from my cable box. You can find it online for less than $300. Iriver also have a 40 GB model and a smaller 128 to 512 MB models that run off AAA batteries.
Apple may have pegged your demographic, Iriver is what I was looking for. It sounds great and I was willing to pay more to be free of Apple's DRM, regardless of how unintrusive you might think it is. Mine is going to my wife for Christmas and she's very intersted in the being able to show pictures of our three year old. She's also going to like being able to drag and drop her music, but everything we have is already on it.
Other people might appreciate Iriver's ability to record stereo directly to compressed format. Many cool concerts are going to be preserved with these.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
In what way is Apple FORCING you to use AAC? It's not like you can play mp3's on your iPod as well. Oh wait...
Also, you can use your iPod as a firewire drive - I do it all the time to transfer files. There's no DRM involved in there at all.
What's in the iPod is the ability to play DRM'd music, not the requirement to play DRM'd music. There's a big difference there.
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Until they can come up with at least something as good as iTunes, none of these products are going to be an "iPod killer".
Love that, it says everything I and other non-"31337ists", have wanted to say but were never 1337 enough to do so... :D
So what sound does it make when you try to play an ogg file? The Iriver sounds great. How about the sound it makes when you try to upload your music to another computer for the 5th time? The Iriver does that without complaining, as far as I can tell. "Cool" That's the sound my wife made when I told her that some of the newer music players also acted like a photo album.
Think different? Nah, just think.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
We can't stop calling everything an iPod killer until someone finally makes a device that beats it on a significant number of features without failing miserably in any major feature. It' been king of the hill so long it's ridiculous, and even the latest competitors still fail to surpass its design.
Oh, sure, the iPod has its flaws--lots of them. And frankly, I'm waiting for a damn "iPod killer" so I can buy one. Once something actually kills it, we can start talking about that product being beaten.
Until a portable audio device actually competes with the (current) iPod on space, size, ui, etc., any device that comes out will be designed to do one thing: take market share away from Apple. Its the only competitor that needs to be beaten right now. Until that day, they will all be appropriately labeled potenial "ipod killers." Sure, we could use another name for it, say it a different way, but in the end a lot of people are extremely interested in whether these new devices actually have a chance of competing with the current best.
It's not just a cliche; it's an important question. Of course, I don't think it belongs in this article, since this device isn't even in the same market as the iPod, but it does look like it might be an iPod-mini killer.
-Dan
I'm not saying one is better than the other (I really have no idea about the H10), but you totally forgot about the interface/usability of each product -- important because if it's unusable, any hardware advantages one has over the other doesn't really mean squat.
haha
hahahahhahaha
ahhhh! It's too funny! Oh well, it's your money, knock yourself out!
[o]_O
Obviously people here post without RTFA.....
On three different news shows i saw segments that cover portable MP3 players none of them mentioned the ipod. it seems like every week therre is another ipod killer device out there, but still apple is selling so many of them they cant keep them in stock. maybe its the king of the hill syndrome or something stupid like that. the fact is that the ipod is not just a device, its a system. you can buy music load it onto you ipod from cd or the itunes store. the entire thing is designed so i can give it to my grandma without worrying about her having a hard time using it. that is what makes the ipod what it is. there will probably never be an ipod killer like there will never be an outlook killer, aplle hit the industry hard and set the standard and evry one else out there is trying to catch up but the ipod has something none of them ever will, coolness and mindshare.
Wait! Why do we need it? Downloading music is a CRIME AGAINST MUSICIANS and since they've decided ripping music to MP3 should be stopped by running shitware on your computer to scramble it, this isn't possible to use.
:-D
Btw, I download music, I'm Canadian.
To transfer files back to your PC, you just set the ipod into hard drive mode, find the file you want, and drag and drop. If you prefer a prettier GUI, there are plenty of software programs out there (freeware, shareware, and paid versions) to copy files back to the hard drive from an ipod. I've also used the iriver players, and some of the additional features they have are great (particularly the ability to record audio.) However, the interface drives me nuts. It'd be fine if you were navigating through 5-10gb of music, but pack 40+ in there and trying to find anything is a lengthy process. I can't agree that the ipod gives less freedom if your primary goal is music; I get much more satisfaction out of being able to easily navigate by artist, album, genre, bpm, year of the album, composer, playlists, date i last played a particular track, etc. vs scrolling through a huge list without much ability to sort.
Unfortunately, just about every complex embedded device has had little or no thought put into useability. That difference has let simpler but better thought out products to dominate in their areas. Compare: TiVo vs. cable company DVR, Treo vs. other smartphones, etc.
While the iRiver may actually have more features than the iPod, and probably is technically superior, the iPod is easier to use for the neophyte who's sold only on the concept of toting their entire music collection around.
Of course, marketing does help. iRiver doesn't really do enough of that in the US. I was in love with my iRiver MP3-CD player until it had an intimate encounter with a sidewalk. It did what I wanted it to: navigation of tracks was straightforward, it didn't require any special concessions to be made when burning a CD, and it sounded good. But if I hadn't been scouring review sites when I was looking to purchase one, I would have never found it.
I work at a major retail store (one of the lesser evil ones) and we just started to carry a good selection of mp3 players including (HP branded)iPod's. In the past we would have maybe 2 or 3 people ask us a month if we carry mp3 players, but now we get that many requests in an hour all looking for "iPod's" or (my favorite) "iPod Walkman's".
They have truely broken the marketing name barrier and have now become the next 'Band-Aid', 'Kleenex', and 'Tylenol' for this generation.
~Your Friendly Neighborhood Anime Man
These Slashdot people are merciless when it comes to typos. This 5 MB reference must be 5 Gigabytes.
...ah... hold the unit in front of their face and ...uh... dance like this to the karaoke video on the screen..." Gee, Mr. Kim, maybe they will, but I donno... [I realize that I'm taking a real risk here by assuming that the designer's name was Mr. Kim, but since half the people in Korea have the same last name, it's not a real stretch.]
But, 5 Gig, So what?
If it is going to be more expensive than an iPod it will fail because NO ONE is going to pay a higher-than-Apple price for a Apple product that doesn't have an Apple design and logo. And an iPod is an Apple product in the public mind. Even if it's not made by Apple. The only way that anyone can compete with Apple is to have a product that is functionally identical, but without the graceful design style or high price (1/3 the Apple price tops).
Please excuse me for asking, but what the fuck would anyone do with a 1.5 inch LCD video screen? It's too small for anything except be a three minute novelity. It's too small to watch and it's an eyeball-catching annoyance when it's on and not being watched.
Is there someone in Korea who thought that this was a good idea? Let him (has to be a guy - no woman would be this dumb I mean no woman could rise to a position of management authority in a Korean company and be this dumb, but you knew that) stand up and take a bow. What did he think people were going to do with a 1.5 inch screen on an MP3 player. "Ah...people will put on headphones and
I hate to come across like a clueless retard to the Slashdot techno diaspora, but please, in all seriousness, tell me if you can...
Why would anyone buy this thing?
And,...uh...If you fire the guy who came up with this idea in the first place, can I have his job?
I agree, the lack of ogg support is weak. However, I'm not sure what you're referencing as far as uploading your music to other machines. I regularly move music between my ipod and laptop/desktop/work computer/other people's computers. Maybe you're referring to how files purchased at the iTunes store limit the number of times you can burn them/number of machines you can play them on? If so, I agree that situation sucks.. but there's no reason you'd have to put iTunes-store-purchased-files on the player. I don't.
Billy G. said it would be enough.
Why wasn't the Creative Zen Xtra next generation hyped up on Slashdot when it was released? It started with 20gb - now up to 40gb - has a touch sensitive pad almost identical to this player and costs under $300. (Actually, the 20gb is now only $235 at Amazon)
Not sure how you guys dropped the ball on this, but you did.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...is the new Seagate's model designed specifically for portable DAP with measures agains vibration and swinging that results from walking and running. It's, simply put, the best HDD in the market.
Thanks for playing, dear Anonymous iDrone, please, try again in your next life ;-P
My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
Competitive products aren't going to kill the iPod...
Apple is going to kill it themselves! I'm completely fed-up with Apple. I bought my first Apple in 1984, and have been a long-time customer, but I will never buy another product from them. The reason: terrible service. Apple has outsourced their tech support to people that don't speak English, don't care, and most importantly, there's no accountability. The other problem is that the Apple stores just don't care. I've been to three in the past two months, and was very disappointed all three times. When Apple rips someone off, that person will tell everyone that will listen. That is going to kill Apple.
For example, my iPod I bought 16 months ago quit so I bought a new one in July since Apple wouldn't repair mine even though I had AppleCare. They said it appeared abused. OK, I carried it every day for almost a year, so fair enough. I bought a new one, and the earphone jack had an intermitant failure in less than a month. The Apple store in Lennox Mall in Atlanta refused to replace it. I've got $700 worth of iPods that don't work.
In Oct I bought a new iBook the day the new models were released. After it quit and I shipped it back to Apple and after waiting over 45 days to have it returned, I bought a new PowerBook because I needed a laptop. I assumed the PowerBooks were better quality. They weren't. I had three keys that were hard to press. Apple does not provide the keyboard as a repair part. You have to send it back. Because I still hadn't received my iBook even after 60 days, I drove over four hours to the Apple store to get the keyboard replaced since the guy at 1-800-APL-CARE said they would replace it on the spot. Well, they wouldn't. Instead, they had to send it back for repair. I went ahead and bought a new PowerBook there that was a demo ($300 off was a good deal), and I'm planning on selling the old one to a friend when I get it back from repair. Well, the DVD writer on the new one doesn't work. I'm not looking forward to my next long drive back to the Apple Store. Like I said, I'm never buying another Apple product, and this type of crap is what's going to kill Apple.
The "iPod Killer", if there ever is one, would be the rumored Rio Chroma. It's basically a Rio Karma with cool new features and none of the old flaws.
Some of the new stuff - read up on the Rio Karma first:
1. SDIO slot - synch via 802.11b, and upload pictures to your MP3 player.
2. Registers as a USB mass storage device (FINALLY!!!)
3. 16 bit color screen for viewing photos
4. Digital coax on the docking device. Weirdly, ethernet has not been confirmed, although it would be odd if they left it off - it was a fairly popular option for the Karma.
5. Costs $330.
The Rio Chroma is the first large-size digital music player that I actually want to buy.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Maybe one of the reasons no other player comes close is this:
As opposed to an "iPod". I mean christ, the "HZWS2000S"? The "XDM-S710BT"? If you bought one of these and it was great, you couldn't tell your friends about this even if you wanted to.
"Hey man, I got this new mp3 player and it rocks. You should totally get one!"
"Really? Cool, what is it?"
"Um...Ok, hang on, grab a pen."
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why they aren't as popular as the iPod, but the current naming scheme on some of these models isn't doing hopefull companies any favors.
k:p
This too, will end.
The only player better than an iPod is...
... the Evangelion iPod:
http://lalabitmarket.channel.or.jp/ipodeva.html
Yes, I ordered one.
No, I do not expect to gain much respect for this purchasing decision.
People are listening to the news on the iPod in spades - it's called Podcasting. I've also listened to lectures.
And if that were not good enough, how about converting those files to audiobooks (an extension change it seeems) and then being able to listen to the broadcasts speeded up and pitch-shifted correctly?
I don't know why anyone would care to listen to a normal broadcast when they could listen to the same content speeded up - most broadcasts are so terribly redundant you could easily go for a 2x increase in speed and still retain comprehension.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
OK, I have my flame retardant clothing on... I'm not a big fan of the iPod for a few reasons - the cost, the minimalist look, and the expense of the plethora of addons. I looked for a long time, and was actually considering the purchase of an iRiver H140, but by the time I got the money saved up for one, they discontinued it and replaced it with the inferior H340. Rather than purchase the iPod, I was going to give up on getting a decent player, but I happened to stumble across the iAudio M3 20Gb. It had a listed play time of 35 hours on a single charge... Hmmm... OK, so I broke down and bought the 40Gb model, and I am glad that I did - saved $70 over an iPod, and coupled with a pair of Sony EX71SL buds, the sound quality is beyond what I would have ever expected. I still have 7 Gb free to use as external storage (no proprietary software needed with this guy, just copy the files to the USB "Mass Storage Device") Anyway, after watching iRiver dump a decent product and replace it with an inferior one, I don't know that I would trust them with a product right now. I've also heard nothing but complaints about their lack of support and extreme slowness in creating firmware updates to address pretty stupid problems.
Isn't that why we're all ditching existing radio and getting Sirius/XM?
If I want to get a small handheld device to listen to Clear Channel schlop and commercials all day, sure, this will be great. But no, I wanted music, so I bought an iPod.
Really. Having an FM tuner is almost a non-feature. It looks like some drone in marketing said "Hey, let's throw an FM tuner on it! iPod doesn't have one of those! It'll be the iPod killer cuz it has teh FM tuner!!"
Yawn.
If you substitute desktop for laptop, I have about the same experience the past few months, including the iPod part.
You're right about accountability. That's what's lacking with AppleCare. They ought to call it AppleDon'tCare, because that's how it's run. Whatever company Apple is now outsourcing their tech support to needs to be fired. As bad as Dell's support it, it is much better than Apple's support at this time. Apple needs to return to 1997-99 when they had ok support. It wasn't great, but it's much better than what they're providing now.
Also, this might sound racist to many people, but I think if someone sales a product in the US, they should provide support in English. All of the Apple employees I've talked to lately over the phone have spoken very poor English. My wife is from Belarus, and she was speaking better English after two months here in this country than any Apple employee I've talked to in over a year. They aren't putting forth an effort.
Getting frustrated with not understanding the person over the phone will cause a lot of people to return products when they have a problem rather than keeping them and working through them. I work for CompUSA part-time for extra money (being an EE in 2004 sucks!), and we have a large percentage of Apple returns. For example, the BT Apple keyboard is very easy to talk someone through setting-up, but I've talked several people through setting it up after they gave-up on getting Apple's help. That should be something the Apple employees should be able to handle.
Why does every semi-cool MP3 player that comes out have to be a "ipod killer"?
Yes, Ipod has taken a big share of pop culture and its pretty nice. but it wasn't the first mp3 player, nor will it be the last. There is plenty of room for competition, espeically as long as ipods remain overpriced.
> The Apple store in Lennox Mall in Atlanta refused to replace it.
They're a bunch of idiots. Try driving to the one in Tampa. Unlike the four previous Apple Stores I tried, they replaced my four-month old iPod that had a bad battery. It took me a couple of hours of pleading, but they finally did it.
Portable MP3 players are expensive, so to make a product successful, you have to make it rugged and actually honor the warranty. Otherwise, you'll make people very angry and they'll complain to almost every person they come in contact with for weeks. That's what happens when people feel like they've been ripped-off for a few hundred dollars. If Apple keeps-up this crap, the iPod will fail. People will only take so much abuse before they take their dollars elsewhere.
You missed my point, which was that in comparing low-cost Wintel boxes to Macs, many people fail to take into account all of the things that those lower-end Wintel boxes don't include, but that come standard on a Mac (the iApps, longer-lasting hardware, etc.). So I thought it was funny that the shoe was on the other foot this time. It seems that with the tech press, if you're the leader, you get certain perks.
Also, you're not exactly accurate in your description of iPods coming without accessories. My 20Gb iPod came with a case, a dock, a remote, and a Firewire cable. These days all of the iPods ship with both Firewire and USB 2.0 cables, a remote, and a belt clip. The larger-capacity models include the dock as well. It's all here.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
You bought an Apple and you wanted it to work? Sucker! Apple is about image. It's not about quality. I have a nice PowerMac at home, but you won't see me posting ridiculous complaints about Apple. I know what to expect from them.
Back to the original topic. Apple support is abysmal and Creative's is even worse, so someone else has a good chance to take-over the market. iRiver has the quality and support. If they can compete with Apple on image, they will kill the iPod.
Apple removed support for copying files from the iPod in iTunes before it was released. Now you have to reencode all of your CD's when you switch computers or when you have a hard drive quit. iPodDownload was a third-party program that used to do what you described, but Apple stopped its distribution. I'm in the process of doing reencoding about 600 CD's right now after I had a hard drive quit.
This type of waste of time is what will lose Apple customers.
The best way to avoid complications is buy one from a store which take back returns for manufacturing defects till one month after purchase. Immediately after buying use it heavily in all possible modes. If it does not break, then you have a good piece which will give you long service.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
what fucking timezone are you in??? I MAYBE get to open ONE present on Xmas eve only ever after 11 PM.
... ones self!
Or are you one of those cunts that buys himself the big present he really wants, which he could have bought any time, just to undermine all the gifts from family and friends which look shit in comparison.
season of goodwill to
...does it do gapless playback? That's one feature the iPod doesn't have, and I mean one of the only few features on offer that is *relevant* to people.
Latest "iPod Killer" Takes Aim...
I wonder if Steve Jobs has a whole collection of these, somewhere in his mansion - labeled "iPod killer #841, iPod killer #842, iPod killer #843...".
Yes, you are very correct. Why would anybody pay more for something that has more capabilities?
I also put faith in your assumption that since the screen size is post-fixed with the letters LCD that it's intention MUST BE for playing video. I mean what sort of idiot (read: pda makers) would put an LCD screen on something if it's not intended to play video!?!?
I mean sure... you could use it to make a nice clear user interface with some nift-o-licous graphics, and checking out some photos (RTFA), but no MAN would come up with an idea like that... especially Mr. Kim.
Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
People please be aware.
iRiver international have a flash only website. What a bunch of retards.
I know this as the batteries in my iRiver CD player have just died and I've been trying to contact their UK representatives to ask about replacements.
However... the only non FLash web preseence I could find for them was their USA website (which isn't Flash based) and after using their online contact page (to ask how I could contact their UK representatives) they've now sent me two emails telling me about some crappy "eform account" theylve set up for me. WTF ?
Fuck that. I wanted simple reply to a very simple question and they're pissing me about.
So fuck iRiver and FUCK Their Flash only website. Any company that has a Flash only website deserves to go bust. I work with a partially sighted chap (who has a 21" monitor set at 640 x 480 hi contrast settings) and he simply can't use Flash only sites at all. It's discrimination plain and simple.
The fucking miserable bastards. The fucking miserable, retarded, clueless, fucking bastards. Shitheads like that shouldn't even be on the internet.
Finally on a better note I tracked down some replacements batteries quite cheaply via the web but I'll never buy iRiver again.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
So, it's better than the iPod because iRiver's music player uses a touch scroll control whereas the iPod uses touch pad controls?
In South Korea, iRiver just killed/wiped off/destroyed/fragged/..etc iPod. Some newspaper even wrote something like "...it is amazing to see iPod, which dominate most part of the world, fails to dominate S. Korea because of iRiver..."
Anyway, I own a iRiver and it just works great. No need for iPod and iTune, sorry Steve!
It took me a couple of hours of pleading, but they finally did it.
That's why you should go when they're very busy! You must have gone when there weren't many people there. My girlfriend works for an Apple Store, and they're very conscious of the image they project. I'm not kidding when I say they'll do almost anything when there's a crowd watching. I got them to replace an iBook with a broken LCD by going to the Apple Store in SF the day after Thanksgiving. It was great. They said they'd fix it for free and got rid of me so fast my head was spinning. The previous week when I was at the store at 10AM on a Tuesday with my week-old iPod that quit, they told me they couldn't help until I mentioned my girlfriend worked there.
If you end-up at the store when there's no one else that can overhear you, make sure you walk over to another customer and start talking. They will help you then to keep you from complaining. They're trained to do that. Remember it's: image, image, image. They don't care about their customers, but they do care about their image.
with alternative firmware (which is still in beta though) you can turn iRivers into portable hard disk...w/o any management software or whatsoever.
In Korea, iRiver H10s are only for old people.
I've got an iRiver 140, a 40GB that I bought mostly because it plays Ogg Vorbis. Ok, it's not as sexy as the iPod, but with the FM tuner, optical I/O, gapless playback, and longer battery life who needs an iPod anyway? There aren't too many companies supporting the Linux-centric Ogg format, so if you like Linux, you should support those companies when you can. As I saw it, the choice was kinda like this: do you want to date a very beautiful model who is lousy at conversation, can't cook, and doesn't like the things you do, or date a good looking girl who is fun to be around, a great cook and shares your interests? (Don't tell me it's more important that she's good in bed, sleeping with your iPod is just sick!) By the way, the medias insistance in calling every other product an "iPod killer" is really stupid and annoying. STOP THAT!
By the perception of illusion, we experience reality
Form over substance.
Typical of our times.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I've never really caught onto the "laptop-harddrive-with-audio-decoder-and-built-in- battery" craze. 40.00 bucks for a cd player or 300 for an i-pod? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. I think penny arcade ran an article on this. The improved flexibility doesn't really fit in with my music listening style I guess; I prefer to listen to albums entirely opposed to just picking one or two tracks off them. Maybe when they're cheaper...
They're all playing catch-up. They need to innovate. Get a crack design team together instead of these feeble attempts.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
That guy must be using Slackware 0.99
In Xandros, Fedora and several others you plug your player, it shows up as a new directory or hard disk, drag and drop what you want, and off you go.
People care about formats because formats are getting on the way of interchanging, ripping and sharing music.A friend of mine was irate that Windows media player was ripping tracks in a format, ITunes was providing another and her player did not understand neither.
People may not care now about DRM, but they will once they realize that bit of music that they thought was theirs to do as they please actually is not. Want to use another player? Nope. Share with your friends? Nope. Then what was the advantage for the consumer over using CDs?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And said that Joe has not got a clue what he is talking about.
Jane has been struggling with MP3, WAV, ACC (or whatever Itunes format is), WMA formats. She bought a new player and she can play some files but not others.
Oh, and she wanted to play music on her MP3 capable mobile phone but Itunes did not warn her she can't do that and WIndomws media rips to WMA only.
Jane may not care about ogg (she seemed interested after I told her about it and its advantages from a legal and technical point of view) but sure as hell she was annoyed that companies are not agreeing to a common standard that would make life simple for the end user.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
To me, the Zen Micro still appears to be the best buy, and have the best looks for a 5GB Mp3 player. Aside from a color screen, I do not notice the iRiver offering much more.
As for larger-capacity HD players, I still love my Zen Xtra 30GB player. The battery life, price, and sound quality are amazing. I am also fond of the ability to safely replace my battery whenever I desire, by simply purchasing another*. After spending much time with friends' devices, I never liked the iPods, aside from how they looked. The iPod's sound quality was not overly impressive to me, nor was its price.
I do not believe that there shall ever be an "iPod Killer", but there are some wonderful alternatives if for a person that is not into the whole iPod popularity contest.
*I understand that Apple has an option for an iPod user to send in his iPod, and have a new or refurbished model sent to him. I would still prefer not to pay the $165.00 USD for this, and be able to keep the player I bought, and the music I placed on it.
This IPOD killer won't work for me. I sample at
a High rate.. most of my tunes are 256k or 320k.
I've got 1,370 songs currently and 7GB of storage left. I passed the 5GB mark long ago.
...because, apparently, everyone's trying to kill it. ;)
...but then again, so is Creative's Zen line. So are half a dozen other manufacturers' competetive products. Hell, my JetAudio iAudio M3 gets a bunch of oohs and aahs every time someone sees me using it, including iPod owners.
Seriously, why does every new HD-based MP3 player need to be called an "iPod killer"? Is it impossible to have a successful product if it doesn't put the iPod to shame?
Look, there's no doubt the iPod is a great product. Apple's mixed enough marketing hype (and let's face it, a lot of the iPod's success has to be attributed to hype) with a great navigation tool and the best (bit still a far cry from ideal) online music store around. It's a genuinely high-quality product.
It's easy to beat the iPod on hardware; it's been done time and time again. iTMS, well, that's a mixed bag. Some people love it, and others couldn't possibly care less about it. Where the iPod is untouchable is mindshare; until you see Creative airing commercials for the Nomad during the Superbowl, no one will. Because, let's face it: just like Joe Sixpack thinks AOL is the internet, he thinks the iPod is the only digital audio player in town.
is incredibly simple to use
has a clean design that makes it easily recognizable
includes an application that provides easy music/file management along with direct access to a legal source so the user can obtain more
does it all so well that it becomes a pop culture phenomenon all by word of mouth.
The iRiver seems like a nice device and all, but it's not, and most likely, won't be an iPod killer.
To the ordinary reader at home, for "bizarre, twisted file structure compehensible to no human mind," please substitute the phrase, "sorted by band and then by album."
However, I'm tired of people blindly dismissing things because they're not Apple or they're new and different. I read people posting on how playing WMA, for example, is not an advantage. What the hell?! Yeah, the fewer formats, the better. Makes sense. I don't use WMA and hate it as much as the next guy (though I feel the same about Apple's proprietary formats) but lots of people do use WMAs. That's all you need to know.
A smaller weight is probably an advantage, too, even if we're talking tens of grams. And, further to this, they've also got a much better battery with the weight reduced. Garbage.
Some people made the point that if we're evaluating things strictly as MP3 players, who needs a colour screen? I mean, why would someone want a multifunctional device?! Ludicrous!
So, while I'm not saying that iRiver will dominate or replace iPod, I am saying that it'd be nice to see intelligent debate on a purportedly geeky site. You know, instead of slagging the good new features, talk about price points and sound quality and where the new features place the iRiver on a value graph relative to the iPod, perhaps taking the trendy factor into account.
I can relate to your situation, as I too generally listen to entire albums, but there are some that I have that I only like select tracks from. With an iPod you have the ability to include some select tracks, if you so desire, rather than entire albums. Which is something that you can do with your CD player too, if you buy CD singles or want to change discs all the time. This ability, however, in no way restricts you from listening how you like. You have the ability to playback music on the device by artist, album, randomly by artist or album or completely randomly so your justification about listening through an entire album doesn't really hold up in regards to the iPod.
Assuming an album is about ten tracks long, you can store about one hundred entire albums on an iPod mini (4GB~1000 tracks). Which only costs $249, by the way. Rip at a higher rate and the number of albums decreases, but what would a person like yourself need with that many albums available to them at one time anyhow?
The devices are smaller and lighter than your CD player and without the need for a CD carrying case of some kind so that you can lug the player, the case and the discs around. There's also no need to change discs anymore.
It's about convenience, portability and your freedom to control the music you listen to in whichever way you choose.
Bad assumption. I have never used a music sharing program. I've moved all of my phonographs and CDs to ogg.
DRM with your Microsoft PlaysForSureUnlessTheRIAAWon'tLetYouToPlayIt
That does bother me, though I don't intend to use any Microsoft music provider or WMA. There's still good music out there and there will be replacements for MP3.com, which was the best way of promoting new music. Mostly, I've been collecting CDs from local bands. I don't need to "pirate" anything and I don't need Microsoft or Apple telling me anything about it. So, the DRM that is there bothers me. The fact that I did not have to install a software client gives me some assurance that the RIAA won't be able to flip a bit on this device to turn off my music. At the same time, I worry that bit might just flip in a few years on it's own. DRM sucks and the less of it there is the happier I am.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How is it that a device that costs roughly $342 is only 10 percent more expensive than a device that costs $249?
I don't think you understand what I'm saying, because what you said is no reassurance at all.
Can you put music onto your ipod without an Apple client? If I can't use free software to load and unload the thing, I don't want it. I don't want to root my machine with some kind of non free install, if such a thing is even available. If it's Windoze and Mac only, I don't even have the software to run it because I got tired of the upgrade train about five years ago.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The Entempo Spirit 20
Seems as likely as any. 20GB of MP3 goodness for under $150.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I've been unsuccesfully searching for a replacement MP3 player for a while now. What I want and can't find is an MP3 player that uses CF cards (not SD/MMC) and has minimal/nonexistant internal storage (as I've got lots of CFs already and don't way to pay for unneeded internal storage capacity) and uses regular batteries (AA/AAA) rather than a sealed internal one.
My 2 year old Nex meets those specs but it's getting pretty long in the tooth. Wish I hadn't dropped it so many times...
Does anyone know of any other players out there that meet my criteria?
Ignorance is a problem, but it's not true that they don't care. Most people who own gadgets like this are already pissed about the upgrade train having made a few of them "obsolete" by not "supporting" them. What better way to educate your friends than by enjoying your devices and music with next to no problems while they struggle with non free formats and clients that don't get along? They want what I've got and it's easier than what they are dealing with.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Okay, so i'm guessing the price won't be as high as anticipated... the Korean market is extremely inflated and it's common for Korean based MP3 players seem extremely expensive due to the conversion of their price to US Dollars. Im predicting maybe $275 if not $250
To answer your question: Yes
a v_level=2&nav_selected=mensboys&parent1=products
http://www.fruit.com/m_ts_pocket.cfm?cat_id=142&n
You can.
Voting them all out of office, now that's change I can believe in.
Proprietary? Well, there's certainly the Apple Lossless codec, which is proprietary and I suppose that you could argue that music purchased through the iTunes Music Store is proprietary as those AAC tracks have FairPlay, the Apple DRM, encoded into them. However, the H10 iRiver is the first device to fully support the Microsoft PlayForSure DRM scheme, so, not only the audio files, but the image files can contain the MS DRM and it can be in your MP3 and your WMA files. I don't know if it can be placed into the OGG files, I would doubt it though.
Fewer formats? The iPod also plays back non-DRM'd AAC, MP3, WAV and AIFF tracks too, which are all (more or less) non-proprietary formats. The iRiver device supports MP3, OGG, and WMA. So, as far as proprietary goes, it would seem that Apple supports four open formats while the iRiver supports two. The iPod also supports two proprietary standards while the iRiver fully supports the PlayForSure DRM scheme. Either way you look at it, the iRiver supports fewer open formats in total.
Price point is more or less irrelevant when it comes to the storage capacity question. But, since you insist that it's relevant, the H10 is more in line with the 20 GB iPod pricewise than the iPod mini with only a $43 difference as opposed to the $93 difference to the mini. The H10 has some very nice features, but those aren't really sensible when you look at the storage capacity. With photos and audio files you need more than 5 GB of storage space. Most people I know that use this type of device fill substantially more than 5 GB with just audio files. If you want to store images, I'd still lean towards the iPod Photo devices. True, they start at $499, $157 more than the H10 iRiver, without the FM tuner or the slightly better battery, but they have a larger (2") color screen and they start at 40 GB, eight times the capacity of the H10 iRiver device with it's smaller (1.5") color screen. For the extra money involved, the Apple devices are still the better buy.
As for sound quality, that really only depends upon your bitrate, which when you talk about portable devices like these, brings us back to the storage capacity issue, which leads directly back to the 20 GB iPod without images, FM or voice recording but quadruple the storage capacity for $43 less.
I have over 100GB of music. Semantics aside, 4GB is a good amount of music for getting from point A-B.
To avoid confusion, all consumer electronics and computer manufacturers should simply change the name of the class of hardware that is designed to play digital music the "iPod killer" class, instead of the misleading "MP3 player" class.
Think about it. No more having to explain why Sony's offerings can't play MP3s, and marketting would have a practically pre-written press release:
"Bob's Hardware.com has released the latest in iPod Killer, it not only plays your digital music, it will also miter your boards and includes a built in laser level."
I have no tag line
... how big your music collection is.
No one cares how you waste space encoding at bitrates portable headphones can't reproduce faithfully.
You are not the target market.
You are a consumer caught up in perhaps the strongest reality distortion field ever created by Apple.
Get over it.
iTunes is as guilty as Microsoft Media Player when it comes to fucking with my IDv3 tags.
I will not tolerate that.
iTunes makes perm. changes to MP3s that you choose to normalize. That is bullshit. All it has to do is include normalization info in the metadata and let the iPod adjust the volume.
If that is what you consider "best of breed" software, than you need to get your head out of your ass.
How the fuck is this redundant? It's the second post for Christ's sake. And it was posted only seconds after the first one! Metamod unfair!