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Here's the link to their Apple resale site.

The BriQ fits into a drive bay, and supports an internal 2.5 drive. It has 'legacy' connectors too, but it is a PPC, not x86.

here ya go:

TerraSoft's briQ

Been around for a long time, based on powerpc (350 or 800mhz G3, or 500mhz G4), 168pin DIMMs, VFD display included, and runs linux to boot!

Here's some info about running Linux on Macs:

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=77884&ci d=6918320

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/10/ 0259234&mode=thread&tid=106&tid=126&tid=137&tid=17 4&tid=181&tid=185

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

Do you know they are using SuSE, or just guessing? I was wondering if Apple developed Infiniband drivers so they could tout OSX as the OS.

I'd personally probably pick Black Lab on Yellow Dog Linux -- it's specifically developed for clustering, and includes libraries tuned for Altivec. Not that I don't like SuSE (I run it on my Thinkpad), but SuSE PPC is still at version 7.3, while Intel is at 8.2.

For the ones who are questioning this existence, the order is shipping, the racks (a ton of them) are there in the main Computing Center server room. First they required all servers to be moved innto racks. Then they started moving servers around, including removing the Petaplex. The power has been upgraded in the server room (the UPS backup generator actually). This caused a morning of basically all the important servers on campus having to go down for one day in the summer - I hated waking up to go switch off machines for that one. The AC has been upgraded to accomidate the huge amount of heat to be put out. It was't until I heard about the cluster that all the chages in the Machine Room made sense. Now they're recruiting help to do the grunt work of putting all the machines in the racks.

The stated objective was to be on the next 500 list. Dell and HP were considered, but they couldn't fill the order in time (possibly as they have made announcements of other large clusters recently) and Apple promised delivery after someone leaked the story of the cluster meetign with Dell and HP to Apple and Apple jumped at the chance.

Basically, the story is not a rumor from the point of view of the geeks on campus who have been effected by the preperations. I'll probably post the /. link to the campus geek list (If someone hasn't beaten me to it).

I'm disapointed about this being only on the Apple section of /. since a cluster this size is noteworthy of the frontpage. (Rumor - and this is rumor sice I haven't goe to direct sources on this - is that it will not be running OS X, and probably BlackLab or YellowDog or SuSE.)

I think they mainly want to kill OS9 so they don't have to develope 2 drivers for all their new equipment and to get mac developers making stuff for their new OS.

I pretty certain every piece of hardware on Apple's laptops are supported(802.11, modem, firewire, USB), with the exception of NVIDIA 3D cards, but ATI cards are fine and Apple generally uses ATI cards in their laptops.

GO ATI for releasing specs! I'm not buying another NVIDIA card until they either release specs for their chips or release a true open source driver(the current NVIDIA driver is a basically a binary that has source for the hooks to the kernel)

Linux is surely available for Macintosh hardware. Yellow Dog Linux, from Terrasoft, is a port of Red Hat specifically designed for the Apple line of hardware.

In fact, you can purchase Apple gear directly from TerraSoft with a dual boot of OS X and YDL at no extra charge, and maintain the original Apple warranty.

I haven't used YDL myself, since I'm happy with the terminal in OS X--but my understanding is that, since, like Apple, they only have to support a specific line of computer hardware, that everything that comes with an Apple machine works out of the box, ie the modem, FireWire, etc.

I think a solid example would be the fact that Lockheed Martin just purchased 260 Xserves with the intent of running Linux on them. This paragraph explains why:

"United States Navy submarines utilize on-board HPC clusters for the realtime image processing. These systems are revised and upgraded on a rotational basis. Lockheed Martin has chosen to move with the Apple Xserves and Yellow Dog Linux. This combination provides a solution twice as dense, less power consumptive, and higher performance than the previous solution at a similar cost. "

... one migt want to look at the BriQ instead. Not DIN formfactor but you should be able to fit it in a dashboard.

i'll do you one (well, four) better... build a cluster of these ibms! i'd suggest black lab project from terrasoft (makers of yellow dog linux). if you are building a cluster, really, black lab is an awesome tool: automated node building, an automatic "life sign" monitoring system for nodes, a migration tool so that you can put shared libraries on nodes over the cluser resulting in having nodes that don't even need to have a hard drive and it's altivec optimized to take advantage of the vector processing in the g4/5.

if you ran one of these clusters, you wouldn't need hookers. the babes would comt to you.

Uh, sorry to piss on your cornflakes, but Linux is already faster than OS X. Besides, I think that IBM knows a thing or two about systems optimization, I think that if they can't get performance-related PPC patches into the kernel proper, they'll just fork and release their own sets of patches. Remember, you're dealing with IBM here, and they don't fuck around when they release a system.

I think the tech documents say that if the OS does not provide thermal management, the fans will run at full speed. So it will be interesting to see if the thermal management will be provided under Linux.

Terrasoft (makers of Yellow Dog Linux) has said that they will support Linux on the G5, but it remains to be seen if they will be able to provide thermal management that won't void the warrenty. Terrasoft is an offical Apple Value Added Reseller, and they sell dual boot MacOS X/Linux systems that carry the full Apple warranty, so Apple may provide them with the info they need or else a binary driver that they can use.

It may also be that Apple will make the thermal management code open source as part of Darwin. If that is the case, then it can probably be converted into a kernel module without violating either the GPL or APSL.

You got it. See Yellow Dog Linux for Linux on the G5.

Ithink their pre-installed Macs is a good job to help converting OSX fanatics back to reality :)

Yellow dog Linux has had similarly sized Ultra small machines called the "briQ" for a long time now.

The only real difference here is that this "Nimble" thing is x86 compatible. whoop-tee doo.

Actually, I am seeing a number of folks either 1) migrate to or 2) seriously consider Apple's Xserve for purposes sort of in-between. The Xserve runs UNIX, it is absurdly easy to manage, they are cheap, and give pretty good performance especially when code is optimized for Altivec.

I've been on the lookout for this (and possibly webobjects uptake) and just haven't seen it... where I have seen xserve adoption has been in certain areas where macs would have been the preferred platform (ie, mac clients) but for many reasons they had to go with a higher-end unix or NT server as apple just didn't have much to offer for that market. There was a small market for people who wanted to use Apple servers but they just didn't meet their needs- so Apple saw a big spike in sales for them when they were released. Heck, some of these people use OS9 with webstar... I'll be more impressed if they can actually grow unit shipments quarter after quarter.

I mean... for 99% of the server tasks out there where are you going to see massive improvements due to altivec? You don't see apache getting big gains from using SSE on x86. Much more important to the xserve's large performance increase over past apple offerings was the new DDR bus, and the just as important new architecture with some mondo bridge chips for cutting the processors out of the equation as much as possible via DMA requests. This is because the bandwidth to the processor is very limited with the current machines in general, and in a dual config they have to share it... cutting them out of the process helped a lot.

That's why you hardly saw any improvement with the new DDR machines for things like photoshop over the past towers, as bandwidth but for server related tasks it helps sooo much.

Add to that the power consumption (or rather lack thereof), and for large numbers of servers, the Xserve becomes even more attractive in terms of lower electricity and cooling costs.

I'd be interested in knowing just what thermal savings there actually are in using an xserve over a competing x86/sparc 1U server. I've used them, and they are NOT cool running machines... they're very hot, and extremely noisy as a quick google will show.

People always think that the PPC is so much cooler than x86, and in general it is... but we aren't talking about 1/4 of the thermals here. Crack open a new P4 or AMD box and there is some big heatsink stuff going on there... kinda funny. Crack open a G4 quicksilver where Apple has been having to essentially overclock the processor and they're ungodly big also, and run really, really hot with huge fans that have made their customers pretty peeved. Just look at these pictures to get an idea of just how big the heatsinks are in new mac towers... and realize that the fans are very, very loud.

So we know that the current G4's are hot as hell, as are the pentiums and amd processors. Apple uses some monster chipsets as well, and it isn't as though apple uses different disk drives or memory... so where are the big thermal savings with the xserve? Companies make custom enclosures like this and this just to make them run cooler and quieter... I doubt people would spend the money on them if there simply wasn't a problem.

Now if you were talking about something like this... gotcha. But they're a whole different ball of wax.

Don't get me wrong- the xserve is cool, and a lot of the points you make about it are valid... as are things like this (largest xserve cluster i know of). But it isn't a miracle worker and it isn't a cool and quiet server.

I would agree that maybe the parent post blows the significance of this out of proportion to some extent...but right now, TerraSoft DOES actually resell Apple hardware, dual-booting MacOS and Linux.

I can't imagine they sell enough macs for Apple to be worried about losing that market to generic systems, but then Apple is notoriously petty about these things (see zealous legal action against dubious trademark conflicts, market rumours, etc.), so its not out of the question. If these systems were being sold with the implicit purpose of running Mac-on-linux (unlike the PPC brick servers TerraSoft sells now, which don't have any built-in graphics capabilities) Apple might want to quash it just to avoid a precedent being sent, especially if there is a possibility of more capable OEM PPC boards coming along in the future (eg. with the IBM 970 chip). But I think some of the problems with the Articia chipset that others have mentioned., coupled with the high price, probably had more to do with it.

There are other PowerPC motherboard suppliers our there still, notably Genesi Sarl which ships a Micro-ATX board of its own design, as opposed to the OEMed Mai Teron board that both TerraSoft and Eyetech have been licensing. There are a limited number of Pegasos 1 motherboards available from Genesi and a Pegasos 2 motherboard is in development for release later this year. Additionally Eyetech has been pre-selling their "AmigaONE" boards, which as I mentioned are based on the old Mai Teron design.

Please note that the current Peagsos 1 boards use the same chipset as the Teron boards, except for the addition of a chip dubbed the April which fixes some bugs in the chipset. The new Pegasos 2 boards will use a completely different chipset from Marvell.

>>Clones will kill that ability. And, make no mistake, it IS that ability that is keeping Apple in business after all these years. Those who don't understand this don't understand Apple's business.

Aha, but clones will also introduce the possibility of some of us running Linux on a PowerPC affordably. I don't want to pay Apple's prices, but I'd like to run a PPC.

Terra Soft Solutions (the YDL guys) does this already. If you go to their online store, you can see that they sell Apple computers with Linux/PPC preinstalled.

Remember: it's not illegal to get an Apple hardware and sell with non-Apple OSes, but getting a non-Apple hardware and sell with an Apple OS is.

OS X licencing issues aside, how does this effort compare to the responsiveness and/or application performance vs. running OS X over Linux via Mac-on-Linux?

AFAIK there are at least 3 efforts to make a COTS PowerPC system that will run Linux, and therefore Mac-on-Linux:

- TerraSoft (which apparently was having production problems or something, but should be commercially available shortly)

- a next-gen Amiga work-alike, complete with OS, whose name escapes me at the moment

- the next-gen Amiga

You can get PPC linuc boxes from the people who make Yellowdog linux, and there are a couple of other PPC computer makers. Also, Apple has no reason to get into the Linux market, they already hav the best desktop Unix.

Perhaps, but the YDL PowerPC boxes have not yet materialized. Some are starting to doubt if they ever will.

Fraser will be the first third party to make a Mac since Apple shut down its three-year experiment in clone licensing in 1997

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,58310,00.ht ml

What about things like the Terrasoft briQ? That runs YellowDog and can't they run OSX? It is a PPC after all... but I don't have one so I dunno...

TerraSoft Boxer series has an ATX motherboard and G4 processor. It doesn't looke speedy, but it is certainly PowerPC.

Besides, YDL is a PPC hardware distro, not an Apple hardware distro.

Boxer Server - hardware
Teron PX - motherboard for hardware

This is not your father's Apple hardware. This is something new and very interesting.

Besides, YDL is a PPC hardware distro, not an Apple hardware distro.

Boxer Server - hardware
Teron PX - motherboard for hardware

This is not your father's Apple hardware. This is something new and very interesting.

You'd want this to run on Terrasoft's $650 Boxer ATX G4 PPC boards... whose introduction has now been delayed. :-(

You'd want this to run on Terrasoft's $650 Boxer ATX G4 PPC boards... whose introduction has now been delayed. :-(

If you are looking for a generic PPC box, you can check these out:
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/boxer/

I have actually been looking at one of those for some sort of cheap server without X86 crap or the cost of SPARC.

Terrasoft makes PowerPC Linux machines, called briQ's with a 5.25" form factor. Come with a 500Mhz G4 or G3, laptop (2.5") HDD, etc.--and only manage to chew up 40W. They also managed to cram in a PCI slot somewhere...

Theoretically, you could cram a full-tower case full of these babies, thus having your Mac 'n AMD or whatever.

Wonder if that comes close to SGI's computing power per unit volume record...

You're right, you can't build a Mac using non-Apple guts, at least when it comes to the motherboard. (The peripherals are pretty standard, though.) If that's the biggest factor to you, then I can't make you think otherwise, and wouldn't want to :) Though I like my iBook, and find that moving stuff between the iBook and my Linux systems is not the pain that it once was, for non-portables I currently prefer X86 machines for the same reasons you name.

Likewise with the preference for internal vs. external storage etc; I like external devices for their portability and interchangeability -- for me, it's a lot simpler to move an external CD burner from machine to machine than actually install / uninstall / reinstall an internal one, and it means I don't have to buy a burner for each machine. Everyone will have different tradeoff points, and it sounds like ours are very different. Nothing wrong with that!

File formats / data exchange are what matter more to me; one big reason I generally prefer open software (open source / Free) is that it encourages open file formats. I'd like to be relatively unconcerned with the actual hardware doing the work as I write, draw, search for a link on google, etc, as long as I can move stuff from one machine to another as necessary / appropropriate / useful / fun.

My biggest objection to Macs (esp. the desktop ones) is aesthetic -- they're just too precious. I like computers to be less conspicuous than Apple does. Can't blame the designers, who want to make them distinctive and interesting, but I *can* disagree with their design choices :) My compact shuttle case is a bit precious, too, but to me it's at least somewhat more neutral and utilitarian looking. So long as it runs a nice OS with loads of software available, I don't care what the chip is; if Shuttle decided to get into the PPC market and sell little "almost Mac cubes" on which I could run, say, Yellow Dog linux, I'd be interested. Terrasoft is selling some big Antec-cased PPC systems, but I may have already purchased my last way-too-big computer. (And their little Bricks, though cool, seem like more money than I want to spend on a fairly limited machine ...)

Cheers,

timothy

You're right, you can't build a Mac using non-Apple guts, at least when it comes to the motherboard. (The peripherals are pretty standard, though.) If that's the biggest factor to you, then I can't make you think otherwise, and wouldn't want to :) Though I like my iBook, and find that moving stuff between the iBook and my Linux systems is not the pain that it once was, for non-portables I currently prefer X86 machines for the same reasons you name.

Likewise with the preference for internal vs. external storage etc; I like external devices for their portability and interchangeability -- for me, it's a lot simpler to move an external CD burner from machine to machine than actually install / uninstall / reinstall an internal one, and it means I don't have to buy a burner for each machine. Everyone will have different tradeoff points, and it sounds like ours are very different. Nothing wrong with that!

File formats / data exchange are what matter more to me; one big reason I generally prefer open software (open source / Free) is that it encourages open file formats. I'd like to be relatively unconcerned with the actual hardware doing the work as I write, draw, search for a link on google, etc, as long as I can move stuff from one machine to another as necessary / appropropriate / useful / fun.

My biggest objection to Macs (esp. the desktop ones) is aesthetic -- they're just too precious. I like computers to be less conspicuous than Apple does. Can't blame the designers, who want to make them distinctive and interesting, but I *can* disagree with their design choices :) My compact shuttle case is a bit precious, too, but to me it's at least somewhat more neutral and utilitarian looking. So long as it runs a nice OS with loads of software available, I don't care what the chip is; if Shuttle decided to get into the PPC market and sell little "almost Mac cubes" on which I could run, say, Yellow Dog linux, I'd be interested. Terrasoft is selling some big Antec-cased PPC systems, but I may have already purchased my last way-too-big computer. (And their little Bricks, though cool, seem like more money than I want to spend on a fairly limited machine ...)

Cheers,

timothy

You're right, and Apple knows it. It'll never happen, because Apple also knows that there'd be no reason to ever own an Apple machine again[1].

This would be like OSX on ix86: it could be the death of Apple. You might think that there's a way for them to do it safely, but I doubt that the big cheeses at Apple agree strongly enough to gamble their company on it.

[1] Yes, many Apple loyalists would still buy Apple for the nifty hardware and low-hassle experience. They certainly wouldn't get any NEW customers this way; people who were interested in a do-it-yourself solution would put this on non -Apple hardware. It wouldn't be cheap, but neither is an Apple.

Apart from Macs, there aren't that many consumer priced/targeted PPC computers around.

Yes, it's news IMO.

The Teron CX does have on-board 10/100 Ethernet. Have a look at Terrasoft's specs.

Here are Terra Soft's specs on the board. It does include onboard 10/100 ethernet.

It exists for while already and it's called Yellow Dog Linux, check their store for pre-installed Macs and pre-installed harddrives.

It's true you can't buy an Xserve without paying for Mac OS X. But at least you can buy one and run Linux on it immediately, without paying any extra (installation labor included).

you could buy a PPC machine from these people and if you ask real nice they might let you in on their suppliers

• 500 MHz G3 or G4 CPUs
• 100 MHz 64-bit System Bus
• 2 x 168 Pin DIMM sites (up to 1GB RAM)
• 2.5" IDE internal drive
• RS/232 serial
• 10/100 ethernet
• 64/66 expansion slot (adapts to PCI)*
• programmable Vacuum Florescent Display (VFD)
• weighs-in at just 1.85 lbs
• 5.74 X 1.625 X 8.9 inches (same dimensions as CD-ROM)

A Briq with OSX makes a nice addition to anyone's drab beige PC:) With the dual-NIC option, you can have your firewall right above your DVD drive. It's a bit more than 400 Euros though.

AND, you can get dual boot Apple OSX/YDL systems from Terra Soft for the same price Apple is selling them. I hope some more x86 vendors take Mandrake up on their $25 OEM deal. There is a market out there for winidows free products or MS would not have had to tell Dell to quit selling them.

Go read MacCentral.

You will learn that Apple told them to stop selling the upgraded devices, and that now they are going to sell kits instead, and perhaps a service where customers can send in their eMac to get it upgraded. They are not "shut down" or closed, or out of business by any means.

I don't see the big deal in this at all. If someone were to take boxed Dells and modify them and resell them, I think Dell would have a problem with that too... But, then again, what about the rack mounted Quicksilvers that Terra Soft sells as the GVS 9000? They're repackaged Power Macs.

Honestly, I don't see why the heck people don't just buy an external DVD-R. SuperDrives are too slow anyways. It's convenient, yes, but limiting. The built-in CDRW is 24/16/32 or something like that. Aren't the SuperDrives 4 speed?

Ironically enough, you can still get to the order page by going here

Wrong, TerraSoft's computers use the G4 chip, but they do not run OS X. I believe they ship with Linux installed.

Their GVS 9000 runs OS X. From their site:
The GVS 9000 is pre-configured with Yellow Dog Linux 2.2, Mac OS 9, Mac-On-Linux (allows you to run Mac OS 9 on YDL), and Mac OS X.

It's their only box that runs OS X. The rest are G4 and G3, which run Linux. Seems it's Apple guts stuck in a 2U rack.

Apple's thingy

Dual 1 GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache & 2MB L3 cache per processor
512MB DDR SDRAM @ 266MHz
60GB Apple Drive Module
CD-ROM drive
ATI Graphics Card
Dual Gigabit Ethernet
Two USB ports
Three FireWire ports


Price $3,999.00


TerraSoft's GVS option

GVS9000
CPUs: dual 1 GHz PowerPC G4 w/AltiVec.
Memory: 1 GB PC-133 SDRAM - 2 DIMMs.
Storage: 80 GB IDE drive.
Removable: DVD-RW Super Drive.
Communications: Gigabit, FireWire, USB.
Video Card: ATI Radeon 7500 dual (YDL video patch required).
Expansion: single 64/66 PCI slot.
Chassis: GVS 9000 2U Rack System.
Keyboard & Mouse: Apple USB.
Operating System: YDL & Mac OS X pre-installed; complete box sets.
Warranty Service Plan: GVS One year - Hardware.
Weight: 50 lbs.


Price: $3,839.00

So, the GVS has a memory bus that is 1/2 the speed, but a DVD-RW that can be taken out and put into my home machine, for $160 less than Apple's machine.

Also, I wouldn't rush out and buy these machines before someone else tests the cooling system first. I've been burned before buying 1st generation Apple hardware. From my experience, Rev 2 is well worth waiting for.

True, if your application is optimized for the AltiVec, you want multiple G4s. So why would you not buy one of these?

Here's the good news (for Apple, at least): Apple's new toy is smaller and cheaper than Terrasoft's. If you get the Terrasoft without the OSX, that price might change for the better. Here's the bad news: Apple seems to have the same sort of headlock on G4 pcs that Microsoft has on Windows. You just can't get an affordable PowerPC without doing it on Apple's terms.

Check out the GVS 9000. Not quite as nice as the new Xserve, but it has been out for a while and has a dvd burner.

You can use G4 Briq's for making a cluster.

Although, for the price of one new LOADED G4 Mac, you can get a whole 8 way intel box, or a couple real nice P4's....

ppc :-)
hmm... no apple is in bed with ms, too... :-(

Wait... what about TerraSoft Solutions. They are selling ppcs with linux. But they are pretty expensive.

I should have 70 BriQs today or tommorow sans drivebay housing. I'm pretty dissapointed with the per-node pricing of Black Lab Linux (by the same folks).
I'm thinking at the moment that I'll netboot Debian and install my own clustering libraries and tools, since as far as I can tell, everything included in Black Lab is available elsewhere except their graphical cluster management tools.
Too bad they didn't see fit to GPL them and just make money on their rather expensive BriQ's (We paid $1500/per for G4s) before Black Lab was released.
Does anyone have any experience with these? Any tips?