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As someone on themes.org said, this is purely a trademark issue, since they left other themes that do not use the Apple symbol, but do use a MacOS look alone, e.g., Aqua.
--

I read the article too, a few days ago. Very well written, and about time someone got on a soapbox about it.

SRPM's are nice, but..One thing has to happen. We either all need to decide on a distrib, or we all need to decide on a packaging standard. Guess which is going to be the easier of the two to do? Packaging.

I'm all for a universal packaging standard. Call 'em .UPS files. Oops! :)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Perhaps you don't understand the concept of corporate sales, my boy. It costs Microsoft $300 per box, and they turn around and sell it for $150. Their cash reserves let them do this -- flood the market with cheap consoles to shove Sony and Sega out of a lucretive market. Makes sense to me.

Probably the first man is Slashdot history to respond to himself,


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

If it does all that, why don't they bundle it with a $5 keyboard, a $5 mouse, and just release it as a computer for $150?



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Apple was right to bulldoze these. They were bad machines in alot of ways.

The boxes themselves looked.. unconventional. It looked more like a keyboard-driven beige oscilloscope than anything immediately recognizable as a computer. In terms of functionality, the Lisa lacked alot of commonly desired features which were in demand at the time (heh, like color) and seemed more like a machine that was trying desparately to be unique rather than truly functional. Whatever you _could_ do with one often took a great deal of time to accomplish, and the box itself would crash fairly frequently. Above that, it wasnt abundantly clear to the first-time user how to go about operating one, and why this sort of design was better than the conventional command-line driven concept used in personal computers in common usage at that time.

I think Apple's main motivation for killing the Lisa was that it would have been a public-relations disaster anyway. Better to drop the curtain on a bad product than to have the public drop the curtain on you. If youre going to make a splash with a new product and a new idea, you dont package it in the form of a failure.

(FYI, this was in a public library in my home town, in 1984. First GUI I ever saw, thats why I remember it.)


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Heh.. And we got slammed for publically calling Bob Metcalfe a 9.9 richter-scale idiot 8 months ago.

Don't say we never told you so. :)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

My thoughts exactly. I heard this news item on friggin radio two or three days ago.

Slashdot ain't what it used to be, thats for sure.

(Sorry, Rob. Its just my own observation.)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

God isn't dead. He's in your head, right where he aught to be.

Duty now,


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

humor_mode(on);

When I found out E won, I looked up from my plate of pancakes and said, "Well, that sucks. I shoulda won that one." (I really like pancakes) ..It put a damper on my whole day. "Bastards," I thought to myself, "..dont these people realize that its a windowmanager?" I mean, cthulga, xlockmore, thats eye-candy. Saying a windowmanager is eye-candy is like saying "Mmmm! Wow! Look at the morals on that gal!" ..A windowmanager is incidental to what goes _in_ it. Propaganda is a $5,000 paintjob with 10 layers of polyurethane high-gloss finish. Enlightenment is merely a chassis.

As I ate my pancakes, I imagined Geoff and Carsten gladly accepting the award, and the $2000 prize that went with it.. I imagined them going to the bank to cash it, and stopping by Piggly Wiggly to pick up a roll of scotch tape, only to march home, tape all the bills together in one big long line, roll it up, and insert it into the toilet paper holder right next to the john. "Damnit!" I said to myself, "Geoff and Carsten make too much money! Salary! Stock options! What good would two grand do those two?" , and I began to dream...What would I do with two grand?

I'd put it to good use, thats what I would do with it.

I'd hire a skywriter up in Redmond to put the words "WE SUCK" with a big arrow pointing down to Microsoft's HQ, every day for a year.

I'd go to one of those ultra-sized supermarks and buy like 200 kegs of Log Cabin syrup..keep one for my pancakes, and pour the rest into Lake Washington where Gates lives, so his whole house smells like maple syrup for weeks. Call in the news media, and blame it on Bill, saying he finally went nutty like Howard Hughes did. "He just likes dumping maple syrup into the lake behind his house, then denying it." , i'd tell the press.

Or, if on that particular day, I felt particularly artistic, I would ...eh, well...if only I had won. Maybe the world could have been different.

I'll just eat my pancakes and wait till next year. ;)

"Well, at least your not like Susan Lucci....not yet." - My dad

humor_mode(off);

Congrats Carsten & Geoff :)


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

I hope Kurt Gray made a mistake and that Larry isnt that clueless about his own holdings. Trae did indeed found themes.org, but he doesn't work on it anymore, he runs linux.com. As the project manager of bb.themes.org, I have been privy to enough events to know that VA is more interested in politics and hype than the open source community. Hey, they are out to make money just like everyone else, but I doubt we will see any articles on /. to the tune of "VA is the Microsoft of the Linux world" like we got with Red Hat. When VA went public, lots of people got "the letter" but curiously, none of the people who volunteer at themes.org did, even though themes.org was the most popular site in VA's stable of web sites until yesterday. Ever notice how every VA web site is redesigned whenever there is a trade show? This mandate alone has seriously kept themes.org from completing a decent design that loads well in any browser. Will we see a /. redesign every time there is another trade show, too? VA has always scared me, but now that they have such wide reaching potential to hurt the community, I am more scared than ever.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

A butterfly flutters its wings in an African savannah..

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

One will be pushed off the gameboard. Guess which.

Server51 will either be gobbled up, or forced off the map entirely, IMHO. VA doesnt have a "Department of Caring".


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Start your own. No one here will stop you. It's what Rob and Jeff did, it's what Scoop did, it's what Joe P. did, it's what the guys behind Themes.org did. Hey, even Bruce did it, and he had some money already.

Unless VA or Andover somehow make it so that people can't visit my site, I won't worry.

--

Someone's there playing an accordian. That might have something to do with why the picture is so bad :)


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Heh.. I'll be popping the champagne in Tucson if I win.

On the other hand, If I lose, i'll drink it. :)



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Its about time Blizzard (and other good game companies) got on the clue-train. We've been after them for years.

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

#1) Copyright *everything* . Trust me on that one.
#2) Stay quiet until you're ready for showtime.
#3) Dont compete if you can cooperate instead.
#4) NDA's are your friend. :)
#5) Dont trust people who make their living from other people's work.
#6) Know when youre in a position to dictate terms, and know when you're not.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Agreed, gtk's default theme is butt-ugly.
Agreed, pixmap themes are way to slow. I can actually see the menus being drawn. Not acceptable.
BUT, try a engine theme (e.g. thinice) and you get pretty, functional, and fast.

--

--

As for the "appearance" issue, you've picked one of the appearances that I like least. I have no problem agreeing that the "default" GTK look is pretty klunky. (And I'm not hot on the WM theme that you're using either.)

But redo that with the GTKstep theme and get something looking more like this fileselector or this scrolled window.

Other looks may be found at gtk.themes.org.

Hey. Leave us out of this.
;)

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Beware.


How soon we forget the Halloween documents.. *sigh*

Microsoft realizes that there is no defacto standard for multimedia content for Linux yet..Its a valuable inroad for them. There is no defacto standard not because we lack one, but because the community as a whole hasn't firmly decided on any. We have streaming audio, video, etc, but as a whole, we simply haven't settled on a standard yet.


So, Microsoft being Microsoft, they'll attempt to move in, and pollute one or more pre-existing standards with proprietary Microsoft-backed "improvements", and bingo, they have us where they want us..now they control the way content gets delivered.


...You want that? Go right ahead. The rest of us will stick to what we know to be a (tm) Good Thing. Open standards, decided by consensus, not Mickeysoft.




Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

If the **NSA** for christ's sake, is using **Windows**....then I've lost what little faith I still had in government.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Ahha. :) Ok..Thanks for the heads up.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Will do. For the record, Chris, I think you're one of the good ones.

Take care,


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Like I just said, I rarely touched a computer between October and early January, and even at that, it was usually only to discuss matters with my staff.

We had a little IRC party, if you recall..Thats about the only significant thing I did during October and January..I was bedridden for most of that time. During one of my talks with a couple guys on staff, I was approached by someone from l.c, who conducted an impromptu interview with me. He was in a hurry, and needed the help, so I gave it. Took about an hour or so.

If I remember correctly, SourceForge sprung from the ashes of ColdStorage, which was apparently going to be a Freshmeat clone. When that project collapsed, whoever was heading up the project decided to take it in an entirely different direction, and SourceForge was born.

No offense, but I just cant help but wonder how an idea I had two years ago, and had discussed at some length with a few people at VA *several* times between July and early August of '99 could materialize out of thin air with several full-time, funded VA employees behind it, all without our knowledge.

I dont think i'll ever know.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Hi Chris,

Well, if what you say is true (I have no reason to doubt you) then your choice was rather uncanny to say the least.

My problem isnt with you, or Trae, or Patrick, or anyone really. I'm actually fairly happy that SourceForge is taking off--In a small way, it validates what we were trying to do with S12. I also hope Patrick succeeds with his project, too..Both were and are much-needed additions to the community. My "problem", if you could even call it that, is that i'm growing fairly tired of people who refuse to be creative, and think of new things, and new ideas. Theres too much copying going on. Just look at Slashdot -- Even though Rob releases the source for his work, it has done nothing but spawn an endless array of poorly contrived knockoffs. Its happened with every project i've been involved with for the last couple years. I dont think its too much to ask for someone to sit down and brainstorm about what can be done, instead of thinking about re-doing whats already there. We have enough of that already.

FYI, the concept of what we were doing in System 12 last year (that is, a hosting umbrella for developers, and providing content for them to deploy) came out of the demise of InSight 2+ years ago. Back then it was called NuBox, and got mothballed when Propaganda took off. Now it sits on a backup tape. System 12 was something I dreamed of, wanted very strongly to do for the community even then, let alone when I agreed to head up the project in May '99. I was even interviewed (by Trae himself!) for the old themes.org's Tile Of The Week feature, where NuBox was discussed briefly. I had every intention of guiding that project to fruition, even if it took a year or more to do so, without pay, and without any sort of compensation. That was my big break, I thought..So did the 11 others who agreed to bust their ass for 6 months to make it happen. Then we got forced off the map.

As for your offer..nothing personal, Chris, but I dont need hardware, bandwidth, or any other resources. What I do need, however, are people who know the distinction between cooperation and competition. There are a few key people at VA who don't understand this concept, i'm afraid.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

My choosing not to discuss why we shut the project down with you, or anyone else for that matter, is out of simple courtesy, not because I (or the 11 other people working on the project) had anything to be ashamed of. Trust me. That decision was also reached as a group, not (to paraphrase) "by me and me alone." Im not in the business of slinging mud.

If you look carefully at the interview I gave to Linux.com, it spells out quite specifically what we were doing, how we were going to do it, and what we were going to offer.

As for "trying to get me a job at VA in November", I'm afraid you're mistaken. I went home to recouperate in October, and stayed until early January. I rarely touched a computer in the time inbetween, and only then it was to discuss matters with my staff.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

bitch_mode(on);

Back in June of last year, I had a conversation or two with Trae McCombs at VA about what to name my project. Laboriously, we sat and thought about names for the new project--one that would shelter developers under a common umbrella while providing them the tools and materials they needed to build.

One of the names I proposed was "Source Forge". I really liked the word "forge", and felt it could be combined easilly with other words down the road as the project expanded.

Trae didn't like the name, told me to keep thinking. 6 months later I find out VA is funding a project called "SourceForge" with full time employees, and was doing essentially the same thing as us. I scratched my chin and thought about that. "Hmm. Thats flattering." I thought.

Well, back to our story--After a week or two of primate head-scratching, and an infamous trip to a shopping mall in Tucson, I finally thought of a good name. The name was chosen, and "System 12" was cast in stone, and work began on the project.

System 12...Hmm. Now, we see Server 51. Same concept.

Sure, its all good..No problem there. Its just that I would rather not be routinely "flattered".

bitch_mode(off);

Good luck, Patrick.
(Yes, I know the URL doesn't work. :) )

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Amen... and its easier to configure, more extensible, MUCH faster. Sawmill is incredible. Check it out if you haven't already.
Sawmill
Sawmill.t.o

Hiya Bruce.. :)

Well, if I turn out to be the lucky horse, I'll be donating a good chunk of it to The XFree86 Project. ...An worthy investment, considering what theyre doing for all of us.



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Heh, well it would sure as hell help *me*..



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

I get the same thing. It refuses to properly render kde.themes.org. It looks like crap and frequently just crashes!

Oh well :P

I believe there already is a Aqua theme for Enlightenment. Check out e.themes.org.

How bout a post-modern window manager like Sawmill

note: by post-modern I don't mean actually post-modern in an artistic sense, I just mean the natural progession after E. Less bloat, easy config, equal graphic capabilities.

Says it all, really. See for yourself.

-- A. Coward
"Central Services' new duct designs are available in hundreds of designer colors to suit your individual tastes..."

I am dissapointed that minEguE is not on this list. Easily the nicest combination of pretty e things and simplicity. FWIW, a lot of these themes (I think all of the nominees) have been converted to gtk themes and sawmill themes as well.

Would be a good haxx0r prank -- Get root on somebody's box, and change all their bookmarks to smell like shit.

Opens up a world of possibility for porn webpages, i'd imagine...*cringe*

:)

Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

This was taken off of drwii's page

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

As one of the named defendants, I've taken down my files. Thankfully, Judge Elfving has stated that there will be no damages awarded. Ironically, this point probably helped DVD CCA the most.

Kinda sad, isn't it.

Apparently, this university has no problem funneling gigabytes of Usenet porn through its network every night, yet, with something as simple as kids trading music, they throw a fit. I'm surprised they dont ban the sale of casette tapes on campus -- My lord, they could begin commiting similar crimes, like recording songs off the radio, or recording NFL games for later viewing! Before you know it, they'll begin ignoring the FBI warning at the start of their Blockbuster rentals, and tear the tags off their mattresses! Oh, the humanity! Please God, deliver us from such acts of anarchy!


Welcome to the 21'st century..More idiots per square mile than ever before.


Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

Superbad! I guess i'm lucky.. Just picked up a new Epox board with a VIA chipset last week.. :) I just wish Intel would spend a little less time whining and a little more time kicking ass.

Intel has an unfair advantage in the marketplace. We all know that -- Now theyre whining about how their unfair advantage is being threatened! Doesn't this strike anyone as being a little weird?



Bowie J. Poag
Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org)

• Bluesteel
  
• Blueheart
  
• AbsoluteE
  
• Cyrus
  
• Brushed-Metal - Default E theme.
  

• Bluesteel
  
• Blueheart
  
• AbsoluteE
  
• Cyrus
  
• Brushed-Metal - Default E theme.