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so called "illegal aliens"?

trumped-up "immigration emergency"

Speaking english certainly helps living here, but it's not required.

        * a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
        * residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
        * an ability to read, write, and speak English;
        * a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
        * good moral character;
        * attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
        * favorable disposition toward the United States.

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language.

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files /N-400.pdf

if filing for naturalization based on marriage to a us citizen, then your fourth anniversary is too long.

see page 1, part 2, item B

you could have applied over a year ago.

It's a non-immigrant visa. It allows these folks to get a taste of the American experience for 3 years, send the money home, and get some experience they take home when they leave.

H1B visa is a dual-intent visa where-by the person can get sponsorship for permanent residency from the employer. So if they like the taste then they can stay too.

When your Unemployment Insurance is running out because it's taken more than 6 months to find a job in your profession, one in which you're told there is some pressing shortage of labor, thanking the loyal citizens of other countries who are competing for the same jobs on an unlevel field may not be topmost in your mind.

If we compare job levels during irrationally exuberant boom times of 1999 to job levels during the recession of 2002, we'll find "unemployment insurance" running out not only among programmers but among every other field. This year it took us 1 month of interviews to hire a IT help desk and our top candidate got another job, we got the second best. It took us 2 months and 2 rounds of hirings to get a System Admin and he destroyed our Exchange server within a month. Talk about getting quality candidates. In both cases we didn't call any foreign candidates and salary was not a constraint.

Given that one must be PE, CPA, member of the bar, etc. to work in those fields, there is little to wonder about.

So certifications/memberships are preventing foreign workers in all of these other professions and IT is the only one that doesn't require certifications/memberships so that's why we have so many foreign workers? So let's have such requirements in IT too and let's see how many of the 100,000 unemployed actually can make it through. Most IT jobs are highly skilled and anyone with half a brain who wishes to be in IT shouldn't be able to just because he wants to.

H1-B is not about brilliancy! It's about run-of-the-mill programmers paid "prevailing" rates which are considerably less than the market rate for good programmers.

It IS about brilliancy, when thousands of candidates from the rest of the world compete for 65,000 visas only the brilliant few can get them. There may be some who do run-of-the-mill programming jobs but that doesn't discount them as run-of-the-mill, its the visa program that ties them to an employer and doesn't give them an opportunity to go for cutting-edge jobs. They can't change employers as projects change. Disconnect the visa from the employer and you won't see many of them doing run-of-the-mill jobs at "prewailing" rates. There may still be some who come through contacts but the market will take care of such low quality workers.

Why wouldn't they want to come?

More than 30,000 people left US as more opportunities open up for them in their home countries. Here's one NY Times story

The H1 visa program enables talented, amibitious hard-working people from all around the world to pursue the American dream. The U.S. in return gets these highly trained and skilled brains for no cost at all. It is really sad to see some dubious companies preying on the needs of unsuspecting and eager foreigners who only want to work and earn a decent living here. It is even more sad to see organized groups use the devious schemes as examples to bad mouth the H1 visa program. Do they ever thank the thousands of folks who have contributed immensely to the economy? If H1B was indeed only to hire cheap labor, has anyone wondered why we don't see foreign architects, accountants, lawyers, professors, health care workers etc in the same numbers as IT professionals since it is allowed by law? Considering a 5% unemployment rate, 65,000 is less than 0.45% of the total unemployed. What the U.S. should be worried about is not the few jobs that go to these brilliant foreign talent but the day when these people do not wish to come to the U.S. anymore!
BostonGCVictim

"What if it applied to *all* careers, not just IT? If my doctors, auto-mechanics, and lawyers were all imported, then maybe my cost of living wouldn't be so high. The burden of free trade goes on IT workers but the benefits go to careers not targeted by visa workers."

It does apply to nearly all careers that aren't unskilled labor. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, actuaries, and even fashion models can and have been hired with H1B visas. It just happens that companies are more willing to use H1B for programmers than for other types of jobs.

See http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm

What is an H-1B?

The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.

What is a specialty occupation?

A specialty occupation requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor's degree or its equivalent. For example, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts are specialty occupations.

In the US, we have websites called "search engines" which allow Americans to research topics they are unfamiliar with. Such websites return links to other pages on the web which relate to the topic input. The results are returned almost instantly, making them much faster than, say, posting a query on Slashdot. Besides providing insight into topics that are country-specific, search engines can connect their users with many other types of information, including obscure scientific and technical topics, records of historical events, analyses of art and literature, and many, many collected personal anecdotes, which are called "blogs."

The most popular Search Engine in the US is called Google, and is operated by a company of the same name. The URL for the Google search engine is http://www.google.com/. If you were to type "H-1B" into this search engine, you would first be directed to this page operated by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which explains the topic of the H-1B visa in detail.

I hope that "Search Engine" technology, which I know to be very popular in the US and many other countries, is of use to you in whatever nation you apparently reside.

I would be more than happy to let 5 million people a year enter the US as long as they are representative of the entire spectrum of economic life.

H-1b is INTENDED to allow American companies to hire people with Master's degrees or better who have skillsets not available in America.

from http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/tempbenefit s/cap.htm
Typical H-1B occupations include architects, engineers, computer programmers, accountants, doctors and college professors. The H-1B visa program also includes fashion models.

Spend two minutes in a class watching the kids actually recite a pledge, and you'll realize it's noting more than rote recitation of an outdated "poem".

So, no I don't understand why it's chilling to them. If the kids believed what they were saying, maybe you'd have a point.

considering H1b visas cost about 2k not including the legal fees...

$130.00. Cheap at twice the price!

We hire H1B engineers because finding an experienced signal integrity engineer who wants to work in flyover country is pretty damn tough - and that's with above-industry salaries.

It's a shame, too, because you guys who won't consider anything more than 200 miles inland are missing out.

IT guys I don't know so much about - all of them (except for the freakin' loud Scottish guy) that I see around my building are from the US.

-h-

The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm#what/

When someone asks your citizenship, never say American. Half the time you'll get hassled, extra bs. Just accept the fact you're a US citizen. I didn't believe it after a Canadian Mounty made me feel like an idiot. but he was right.

There is no such thing as an American citizenship.

There is no national security problem. Look here http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/d rugfact/american_users_spend/table2.html Just with those drugs, cocaine and heroin, there are an estimated 300+ tons of the stuff coming into this country annually, and it would be easier to teach my mom to do a sed substitution than a WMD substitution for the cargo.

But there is no profit in that!

Well, unless your on this list: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fi g

OK. Now about people just walking into this country. There are 5 million people illegally living in the US, source: http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistic s/illegalalien/#Table1 They are even talking about making illegal immigrants being illegal! Gasp.

I can't see the inherant bias on NPR's side if they use a term that the GAO uses:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04472.pdf
Or the DOJ/INS:
http://uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffairs/summaries/ undocres.htm

Please do your research before spouting off about something you know nothing about. You only prove your own bias and obscure the argument with unfounded speculation.

"Yay, would this mean outsourcing is going down, or that the industry is growing? Also, does this mean that it's actually worth it for me to continue my education and get a degree in Computer Engineering? "

The answer to the second question is no..... It's just the same pattern repeating itself. (1998, 1999, 2000, 2005...)

... Tech companies are now forced into the domestic JOB market as the H-1B quota is closed for the remainder of the federal fiscal year (til Oct 1).

Hence ALL the squealing by President Bush and the industry lobbyists.
Lobbyists perpetuate their scam by claiming every position staffed by a contractor/consultant as unfilled !!

"In other words, outsourcing has actually helped our economy and provided new employment opportunities for the displaced, just like almost every respectable economist has said it would, just like it has always done over the years. Yes, perhaps Paul Krugman disagrees, but I said "respectable" economist, which immediately disqualifies him. "

1st item... Statistics used by the report. Table 1-8. Lists a net tech job gain of 110,000...

What they don't mention is that between the two sample points May, 2003 to May 2004 is that the DOL changed the way they calculate employment statistics.

January 23, 2004, "Though U.S. jobs data have been ugly lately, some economists think the government's annual benchmark revisions, due in early February, will pretty the numbers up a bit. "

I for one wouldn't trust any number that the BLS publishes.

They also don't mention how many H-1B's ( 47% of FY2003 + 100% of FY2004 +no cap's) + all of L-1's(???) they let into the country during that period. My guess ~150,000... It doesn't look to good for US citizens..

2nd item.. Inflation verses Table 1-9.. Salary gains in the 2 to 4% range.

Just in case you have noticed. The biggest expense you'll ever incur in your lifetime is housing ~50% and climbing.
Guess what is not measured in the CPI?? You got it, housing.. (Oh the DOC screws around and tries to mask it by measuring the rent, but that doesn't reflect to true cost of living for a majority of Americans).

Guess what item has been inflating by leaps and bounds?. Housing, after that is medical expenses.

My bet.. The Real Inflation rate for 2003 to 2004 was in the 15 to 20% range.
That number kinda pooh-pooh's US tech workers meager, 2 to 4% salary increase, if it ever existed..

Summary.. US tech workers were and still are loosing ground, big time.

"In other words, outsourcing has actually helped our economy and provided new employment opportunities for the displaced, just like almost every respectable economist has said it would, just like it has always done over the years. Yes, perhaps Paul Krugman disagrees, but I said "respectable" economist, which immediately disqualifies him. "

1st item... Statistics used by the report. Table 1-8. Lists a net tech job gain of 110,000...

What they don't mention is that between the two sample points May, 2003 to May 2004 is that the DOL changed the way they calculate employment statistics.

January 23, 2004, "Though U.S. jobs data have been ugly lately, some economists think the government's annual benchmark revisions, due in early February, will pretty the numbers up a bit. "

I for one wouldn't trust any number that the BLS publishes.

They also don't mention how many H-1B's ( 47% of FY2003 + 100% of FY2004 +no cap's) + all of L-1's(???) they let into the country during that period. My guess ~150,000... It doesn't look to good for US citizens..

2nd item.. Inflation verses Table 1-9.. Salary gains in the 2 to 4% range.

Just in case you have noticed. The biggest expense you'll ever incur in your lifetime is housing ~50% and climbing.
Guess what is not measured in the CPI?? You got it, housing.. (Oh the DOC screws around and tries to mask it by measuring the rent, but that doesn't reflect to true cost of living for a majority of Americans).

Guess what item has been inflating by leaps and bounds?. Housing, after that is medical expenses.

My bet.. The Real Inflation rate for 2003 to 2004 was in the 15 to 20% range.
That number kinda pooh-pooh's US tech workers meager, 2 to 4% salary increase, if it ever existed..

Summary.. US tech workers were and still are loosing ground, big time.

I was an I-9 admin for HP years ago so I can answer that.

To work in the US you must prove your identity and employment eligibility. While a document like a passport proves both, the individual can provide two seperate documents instead, one proving their identitiy (they are who they say they are) and the other that they are entitled to work in the US. Lacking a driver's license the person can use a state ID card or a voter registration card or even a school report card along with a social security card or their birth certificate (Original or Certified/Abstract).

The list of acceptable documents is included with Form I-9 available from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services websiteright here

How can the INS have time to pick up illegals when they don't exist anymore? The law enforcememnt part of immigration is now handled by Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the administative part of immigration is now handeled by Citizenship and Immigration Services.

The 20,000 additional H-1b's reserved for aliens with a Master's from a US institution is a new development, once companies have the timing down and are grabing people as they graduate rather than tracking them down abroad, I am sure they will be used as quickly as normal H-1bs are now.

L-1 visas are intracompany transfers. You must prove a direct corporate relationship with an international company that has employed the beneficiary for one of the past three years. If you aren't an international company, no L visas for you, period.

The L-1 and H-1b visas are "dual intent", meaning you may apply for immigrant status while in H or L status without risking your current non-immigrant status. I belive these are the only dual intent visas. I don't have any numbers, and I work on the East Coast, but I find "90% Computer Programmers" figure highly dubious, the firm I work for handles a fair amount of H-1b cases, and they are a grab-bag of occupations, if anything I would say that biomedical researchers, both in acadamia and in commercial research shops, are the biggest group.

They used up about 15000 for this year so far, as far as I know. Looks like somebody coming up with the number actually did his homework for a change.

Considering their claims, it looks like they weren't really all that interested after all. They couldn't find 20,000 of these hot talents they were discussing in all the colleges and universities in the US?

H1B is not about IT only.

Yes, it also includes fashion models, but the latest figures I've seen indicate that over 90% of H-1B visas go to programmers.

So you are suggesting that their should be NO way to bring a useful talented specialist from another country? What are "normal immigration channels" you are talking about? Name one and tell me how long it will take. L1?

Doesn't the L1 visa do exactly that? It allows a company to bring in people with special knowledge and even pay them at the foreign rate - oh, wait, that's a downside compared to the H-1B, isn't it?

There is no other useful way of bringing talented people in, and if you think we will be better off sending them packing, you do not know what you are talking about.

How could we "send them packing" unless they were here in the first place? Why do you think that "them" are more talented than the people already here?

I would not be able to replace H1B folks in my department, for any money, with anybody. And given their pay and headache involved with our lawers

I think you are being disingenuous. The phrase "for any money, with anybody" proves it. If your H-1Bs are irreplaceable, what happens when they die? Given your position, you know full well that there is minimal legal expense unless your company is sponsoring the H-1Bs for green cards.

I would agree that abuse should be fixed - but taking away easy and legal immigration would only make it worse.

The H-1B is suppose to be a non-immigrant visa, but since you make your living on the reality of that immigration loophole, you can't be expected to say anything less.

Well, political affiliation can also be a problem in the US. In the naturalization form (available at http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/N-4 00.pdf/), there's the following question:

9. Have you EVER been a member of or in any way associated (either directly or indirectly) with:
a. The Communist Party? Yes No
b. Any other totalitarian party? Yes No
c. A terrorist organization?

Similar questions appear on most immigration forms (green card, H1B visa, ...). Having been a member of the communist party can bar you from working in the US or becoming a US citizen...

All it will take is a determined senator

Yeah, one senator. Keep dreaming.

I'll bet $10,000 you were born in the US. US immigrants understand its government better than natural born citizens, because they actually have to prove they understand the country before being accorded citizenship.

I'm veering totally off-topic, but then again, this is Slashdot, where off-topic is is always on-topic...

Know what would make this country, any country, a better place? It would be a better place if every person who had a say in its governance (i.e. voters) actually understood the principles upon which the country operates. No one should be able to vote, no one should be able to run for office, without passing the country's civics exam. I don't care if you were born here or not. Where you were born has nothing to do with anything. That's one of the poorest excuses for priviledge ever. "I was born here." So fucking what?!

Now of course, revolutionary activities fall entirely outside the purview of tests and other beaurocratic formalities.

You might have to be kind of careful when you say

Japanese culture is much less anti-intellectual and anti-geek

if you are including these 'Otaku' (shut-ins), then I would have to disagree with you completely. I have been living in Japan the last 11 months and every Japanese person who I have broached the topic with say they dislike 'otaku'. Might it be because there was a famous 'otaku' serial-killer?

As for your second point I would not call it racism at all, more of fascination. The Japanese citizens without 100% Japanese heritage is less than 1%. How many American's can claim they have 100% Native American blood? When you come from an immigrant country (read: USA) it may seem like racism, but some of these people have never had a conversation with a foreigner before in their life. Think about it, the total yearly immigrants into Japan is about 11k, whereas the USA is reaching 450K

(nice nickname by the way...).

You may be the only person so far to have picked up on the (lame) joke.

Are you saying that the H-1B visa's aren't being applied (or accepted) because enough people aren't attemting to immigrate. If that is what you are saying, I find that relatively shocking.

What I'm saying is that the Congress and USCIS recently put up 20,000 new H-1B visas for people that US companies were really whining that they couldn't find in the US, and so far, there haven't been many takers according to the news sources. Given the lack of IT jobs in the US and the growing IT markets in other countries, it's not really surprising. BTW, shocking as it may seem, the H-1B is supposed to be a non-immigrant visa.

Sec. 219. (a) Designation.-(1) In general.-The Secretary is authorized to designate an organization as a terrorist organization in accordance with this subsection if the Secretary finds that-

(A) the organization is a foreign organization;

(B) the organization engages in terrorist activity (as defined in section 212(a)(3)(B) 1a/ or terrorism (as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. 2656f(d)(2)), or retains the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism); and

(C) the terrorist activity 1a/ or terrorism of the organization threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States.

INA Act 212(a)(3)(B)4/ (iii) TERRORIST ACTIVITY DEFINED.-As used in this Act, the term "terrorist activity" means any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if 4/ it had been committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of

any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle).

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained.

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(b)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person.

(IV) An assassination.

(V) The use of any-

(a) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or

(b) explosive, 4/ firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property.

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing.

Sec. 219. (a) Designation.-(1) In general.-The Secretary is authorized to designate an organization as a terrorist organization in accordance with this subsection if the Secretary finds that-

(A) the organization is a foreign organization;

(B) the organization engages in terrorist activity (as defined in section 212(a)(3)(B) 1a/ or terrorism (as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. 2656f(d)(2)), or retains the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism); and

(C) the terrorist activity 1a/ or terrorism of the organization threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States.

INA Act 212(a)(3)(B)4/ (iii) TERRORIST ACTIVITY DEFINED.-As used in this Act, the term "terrorist activity" means any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if 4/ it had been committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of

any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle).

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained.

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(b)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person.

(IV) An assassination.

(V) The use of any-

(a) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or

(b) explosive, 4/ firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property.

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing.

You forgot the stack of checks.
My wife will soon be going in for a third fingerprinting in her citizenship ordeal, and hers isn't as Kafka-esque as some.
I would express my real feelings about http://uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm, except that I genuinely fear bureaucratic retribution.

I have an extremely important piece of advice with regards to this:

When you deal with the INS, you always deal with the office/branch at the location you first immigrated to. In my fiancee's case, this means the California INS. Even though she lives in Portland and hasn't lived in California for 5 years.

This absolutely sucks. The California INS is swamped with millions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants. I am not trying to make a negative comment about those folks, but the system is overloaded by the sheer mass of people and it will take YEARS longer to get through it than it would if you were going to a different office.

Not necessarily so, or at least it wasn't so when my wife and I went through The Process. My wife's from out of town. When we were first married, our immigration stuff was handled by the DC office (which had handled her previous immigration history, as we met in the US. Long story, but her visa lapsed and she had to go back home before we got married). We then moved to New Jersey and had her case transferred to the Newark office (after much wrangling). Much better. At one point we heard that the backlog in DC was on the order of 12 - 24 months whereas Newark was taking 60 days.

It does pay to figure out what immigration office you'll have to deal with. Check the BCS website, they'll tell you (by state) which immigration office covers your part of the country. In our case, Newark had a relatively light load compared to DC (tons of diplomatic issues) and NYC (tons of... people). Depending on how you want to live your life, you might consider living on one side or another of a state line or river for the better BCS service.

One other piece of advice about dealing with immigration: follow up with them a lot. Ultimately, we made the decision to go to INS (as it was then known) every three months or so, just to remind them that we existed and that we'd like our papers processed. Yes, we both had to spend vacation time on it. Yes, waiting on line for an hour in January is freezing. But, if it shaves six months to a year off your wait time, or helps them to untangle their own mess, I believe it is worth it. We got to the point where the door guards recognized us. Not that they were any nicer....

Also, a little nitpick, I don't think it's only the Latino immigrants who are overwhelming INS in California. California is host to millions of immigrants from other places as well (Southeast Asia, for instance). Not to mention that I have a feeling that any given BCS office would be overwhelmed by more than five cases in a given month.

I have an extremely important piece of advice with regards to this:

When you deal with the INS, you always deal with the office/branch at the location you first immigrated to. In my fiancee's case, this means the California INS. Even though she lives in Portland and hasn't lived in California for 5 years.

This absolutely sucks. The California INS is swamped with millions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants. I am not trying to make a negative comment about those folks, but the system is overloaded by the sheer mass of people and it will take YEARS longer to get through it than it would if you were going to a different office.

Not necessarily so, or at least it wasn't so when my wife and I went through The Process. My wife's from out of town. When we were first married, our immigration stuff was handled by the DC office (which had handled her previous immigration history, as we met in the US. Long story, but her visa lapsed and she had to go back home before we got married). We then moved to New Jersey and had her case transferred to the Newark office (after much wrangling). Much better. At one point we heard that the backlog in DC was on the order of 12 - 24 months whereas Newark was taking 60 days.

It does pay to figure out what immigration office you'll have to deal with. Check the BCS website, they'll tell you (by state) which immigration office covers your part of the country. In our case, Newark had a relatively light load compared to DC (tons of diplomatic issues) and NYC (tons of... people). Depending on how you want to live your life, you might consider living on one side or another of a state line or river for the better BCS service.

One other piece of advice about dealing with immigration: follow up with them a lot. Ultimately, we made the decision to go to INS (as it was then known) every three months or so, just to remind them that we existed and that we'd like our papers processed. Yes, we both had to spend vacation time on it. Yes, waiting on line for an hour in January is freezing. But, if it shaves six months to a year off your wait time, or helps them to untangle their own mess, I believe it is worth it. We got to the point where the door guards recognized us. Not that they were any nicer....

Also, a little nitpick, I don't think it's only the Latino immigrants who are overwhelming INS in California. California is host to millions of immigrants from other places as well (Southeast Asia, for instance). Not to mention that I have a feeling that any given BCS office would be overwhelmed by more than five cases in a given month.

I have an extremely important piece of advice with regards to this:

When you deal with the INS, you always deal with the office/branch at the location you first immigrated to. In my fiancee's case, this means the California INS. Even though she lives in Portland and hasn't lived in California for 5 years.

This absolutely sucks. The California INS is swamped with millions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants. I am not trying to make a negative comment about those folks, but the system is overloaded by the sheer mass of people and it will take YEARS longer to get through it than it would if you were going to a different office.

Not necessarily so, or at least it wasn't so when my wife and I went through The Process. My wife's from out of town. When we were first married, our immigration stuff was handled by the DC office (which had handled her previous immigration history, as we met in the US. Long story, but her visa lapsed and she had to go back home before we got married). We then moved to New Jersey and had her case transferred to the Newark office (after much wrangling). Much better. At one point we heard that the backlog in DC was on the order of 12 - 24 months whereas Newark was taking 60 days.

It does pay to figure out what immigration office you'll have to deal with. Check the BCS website, they'll tell you (by state) which immigration office covers your part of the country. In our case, Newark had a relatively light load compared to DC (tons of diplomatic issues) and NYC (tons of... people). Depending on how you want to live your life, you might consider living on one side or another of a state line or river for the better BCS service.

One other piece of advice about dealing with immigration: follow up with them a lot. Ultimately, we made the decision to go to INS (as it was then known) every three months or so, just to remind them that we existed and that we'd like our papers processed. Yes, we both had to spend vacation time on it. Yes, waiting on line for an hour in January is freezing. But, if it shaves six months to a year off your wait time, or helps them to untangle their own mess, I believe it is worth it. We got to the point where the door guards recognized us. Not that they were any nicer....

Also, a little nitpick, I don't think it's only the Latino immigrants who are overwhelming INS in California. California is host to millions of immigrants from other places as well (Southeast Asia, for instance). Not to mention that I have a feeling that any given BCS office would be overwhelmed by more than five cases in a given month.

Okay, if you want to be anal about it, yes, it does require more:
The requirements for naturalization past the continuous citizenship are:
residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing for citizenship;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution;
and, favorable disposition toward the United States.

More information on how to obtain US citizenship is available Here.

It is sad that it requires more work to become a citizen of America than just living here, but basically, if you've lived and worked here for long enough, know enough about the government, have moral decency, and are fluent in the ~unofficial~ primary language of the United States, then getting your citizenship is as trivial as filling out some paperwork, taking a test, and an oath.

If you're a poor immigrant, yes, it is much harder, but if you've been living here for long enough to attain citizenship, you've probably been working, have a load of cash somewhere, or someone to bankroll you (a college, for example), and THEY are willing to go the distance to help you become a citizen... Don't make it seem like it's next to impossible.

Welcome to the Naturalization Self Test! If you weren't born here -- would they let you in?

Welcome to the Naturalization Self Test! To begin the self test, click the Generate Questions button.

With your precise use of the term "fertility rate," I'm wondering if you're neglecting to account for immigration... which is substantial.

The fertility rate is the number of children born per 1,000 mothers aged 15-49, so yeah, it leaves out immigration (and kids born to women aged 50+, rare as they are).

Indeed, immigration is substantial, though lower than around 1990. (warning: 2.73MB PDF) The U.S. appears to admit, roughly averaging the last 15 years or so, about 1m people. That doesn't count the illegal immigrants, who neither pay into nor receive SS funds (else, they would have a record w/ the govn't which may well be found out by the IRS).

Given that approx 550k of the 700k or so immigrants in 2003 were of working age (16 and older), that's about 78% of immigrants being of working age. Hence, given my 1m/year average, we can say that due to immigration, we're adding about 780k payers into SS per year.

Of course, most immigrants work disproportionately low-wage jobs, and therefore contribute less to SS funding than the rest of us natives (in fact, 188k of them in 2003 didn't work at all; they were students or children. 310k of the total - about 45% - were declared "no occupation/not working outside the home"). So their effect on SS funding is lessened by virtue of low pay and/or no pay at all...

So, as a social safety net for all (even the unemployed and non-working immigrants, as I understand), the immigrants really stand almost as a *liability* to the U.S. Social Security system; a drain on whatever efficiency and fairness SS can claim to have in making its payments.

Such is the problem with socialism (including Socialist Security)...

Anyway, if you think we got it bad, you should see the German problem. 1.45, I think.

Good lord... I hadn't seriously looked into it, but I do recall it being unusually low.

Anyway, it's terrible, and they're socialism collapse will be such a big bang it will make whatever little adjustment pains SS has look like only a small firecracker.

Probably. :) That won't stop the Euro-folk from swearing by socialist policies, of course, but sooner or later, their economies will cease to float such policies, and the masses will have to learn to take the hit. Of course, their labor unions and culture will have a *very* hard time adjusting...

He'll get a F-1 visa, meaning he won't be allowed to work in the US ... You're not allowed to work outside the university while you pursue your degree.

Again, I can find no evidence that AC21 was rushed through against the wishes of the Democrats, nor was it signed by Clinton at 6am. Sorry.

As for AC21 causing the .com crash ... huh?

No, seriously. Huh? Are you saying that an oversupply of labor, specifically foreign labor, caused a market crash? Because you'll be the only person I've ever met who's claimed that.

I'll tell you what caused the crash - a tonne of .com companies with little or no real business plan, no revenue and lots of VCs getting greedy looking for the next Amazon.com IPO. It was a typical unsustainable market bubble. wiki gives a good general overview of some of the causes, but BusinessWeek sums it up best: Millions of investors, gripped by a mass speculative mania, had driven dot-com equity valuations to ridiculous, perhaps unprecedented, heights of fancy.

And Before AC21, H1-bs were limited to 130,000 a year, under legislation passed in 1998. AC21 extended it for a further 3 years, and added portability provisions to both H visas and green cards.

Which is also a separate problem. We've got so many classes and categories, I don't think anybody has any idea which limits apply to what- or how to control the borders at all.

I assure you that a great many people know exactly what the limits are - including INS. I'm sorry that you don't know them, or the visa categories available.

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

"If you're gonna shoot out numbers at least endeaver to make them remotely accurate. The visa caps varied over the last six years:"

Here are some corrections about the H-1B numbers.
One must remember there are many categories of H-1B's which do not count against the cap.
On Wednesday (S. 2302) congress added another exemption from the H-1B cap.

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

Fed Fy
1999.... 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.... 136,787
2001.... 201,079
2002.... 103,584
2003.... 105,314
2004.... Final numbers not in yet.
............ (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005..... Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market.

Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

While this sub thread is completely irrelevant, I have a hard time coping with arguments based on what is factually incorrect. You can not take an existing , well defined term and redefine it to suit your argument. Period.

If you want to know more about what the USA, as a country, means my "citizen", check with USCIS. Please.

Answering my own question, DHS *is* the INS
.

Never mind.

You've made a couple of mistakes. Renewals, transfers or extensions do not count against the H-1B cap.

"The first important matter is to understand whether the cap applies to a particular case. It only applies for NEW employment. Individuals in H1B status, who previously have been counted against the cap, are not counted against the cap again when they file to extend H1B status, whether through the same or a new employer."

Here are some of the ugly details about the H-1B and L-1 visa programs.

Current tech worker importation stats..

The following list is for Newly issued H-1B employment visas broken down per federal fiscal year, initial term 3 years. Renewals(3 more years), Application extensions(add another year), and transfers NOT COUNTED.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffairs/factsheets /h1bcap_FS.pdf

Federal
Fy1999.. 138,385 (from KMPG audit)
2000.. 136,787
2001.. 201,079
2002.. 103,584
2003.. 105,314
2004.. Final numbers not in yet. (~65K+at least 30K in exempt from cap categories and growing in number each year).
2005.. Blew threw 58.1K of the quota in one day (Oct 1).

P.S. I'm not even counting all the foreign workers being imported on L-1's visas,
(5 year term, currently somewhere around 100K per year).

Net result: The globalists have imported in excess of 1/2 Mil+ foreign tech workers into a shrinking (Sept 00) US tech job market. Then tack on a the insult of offshoring.

Care to guess who is getting the short end of the stick?

As it is, it's quite hard being a foreign national in the US presently, even if you are just a student.

With the new SEVIS system in place, whatever little privacy you had is gone. It's mandatory for you to provide information on your current whereabouts to the authorities.

I interned at a national lab this summer, and it was mandatory for me to notify my mentor of my whereabouts - if I was leaving town, even on weekends, I had to inform him. He would call me up every three hours to find out where I was. During weekdays, I had to call him up and get his permission before leaving for lunch.

Rights? You do not have those.

United States of America ceased to be the land of the free a long long time ago.

You do not have any liberty here. Get over it. You're not wanted if you are foreign national. Your color and your race will be used against you, no matter what. I get pulled over at airports all time time because of that.

I do not blame the people, because the people are nice. But the administration and the people running the country are not.

They do not care about the principles that this country was built on. Sad.

A bit of add on which will probably get forgotten by most is available since I posted. (Link to Fed Numbers Report on non immigrant visas) This is dynamite it says 1.1 Million non-immigrant visas issued 2003. It also says between the lines more than 2 million family visas issued for these people as sponsors. YES they can sponsor immigrants even though they are non-immigrants. Then the immigrants can sponsor them!

Current mismanagement of US Visas is causing the USA to import about 8 million persons a year though the official numbers appear lower the US Census data shows the population increase and Americans are not breeding that much!

This represents in workforce the displacement from work of about 12 million Americans since the Bush Administration took office! This is Genocide against a nation's own population.

The government works hard to obscure the visa applications and numbers so that getting a full handle on the issue is hard. I will try to give you an approximate estimate of what is going on.

The USA has Family visas associated with spouses and financees and relatives which account for the inport of about 3 million annually. No firm or accurate numbers are published here on these. This number is rising rapidly. The USA has Non-Immigrant visas officially stated for 2003 at 1.1 million. The USA admits to illegal immigration having trippled since 2001. The numbers officially admitted then were about 1 million a year. US Census data showed from 1990 to 2000 that the US Population rose from 244.5 million to 281.4 million. US birth rates indicated a population increase of 2 million leaving 34.9 million by immigration. (Dividing that is 3.49 million per year) It is notable that the Census missed this number low in their estimates due to a runup of Illegal Immigration in the last 4 years of that decade by 11.4 Million persons!

This leaves the rate of Immigration running at about 5 million a year in 2001. US LEGAL immigration has increased by over 2 million since that time and Illegal is up by 3 times. Illegal Immigration was running something in the order of 2 million a year. It is now about 6 million. Sorry for being a bit detailed in the fact looks but they are important.

The claim of extremist laid on those who suggest proper controls are in order is just wrong. It is the extremists who defend what is going on! This is threatening our survival as a nation in so many ways.