Slashdot Mirror

You can also read an functional overview of Evolution and what it has to offer.

Since Evolution is not feature frozen, we are polishing the GUI and killing all bugs that we have reported so far, you can help by going to the developers page and learn about how to report bugs on Evolution or how to send your favorite patch and improvement.

You can get Evolution using Red Carpet (that is how I installed it myself a few minutes ago). Select the `Ximian Preview' channel and then select Evolution, all the required software will be installed for you.

Finally, now that I am pasting URLs, I would like to say that on the preview channel you can also find the latest two great contributions of Ximian to GNOME (plug, plug). The Ximian Setup Tools is there for people to test (ie, unified System Administration across Unix systems, with a nice and friendly GNOME UI). The technology behind it is extremely nice. And we are also previewing the Metatheme selector, which allows you to change all the theme setting across the board in your desktop.

Love,
Miguel.

You can also read an functional overview of Evolution and what it has to offer.

Since Evolution is not feature frozen, we are polishing the GUI and killing all bugs that we have reported so far, you can help by going to the developers page and learn about how to report bugs on Evolution or how to send your favorite patch and improvement.

You can get Evolution using Red Carpet (that is how I installed it myself a few minutes ago). Select the `Ximian Preview' channel and then select Evolution, all the required software will be installed for you.

Finally, now that I am pasting URLs, I would like to say that on the preview channel you can also find the latest two great contributions of Ximian to GNOME (plug, plug). The Ximian Setup Tools is there for people to test (ie, unified System Administration across Unix systems, with a nice and friendly GNOME UI). The technology behind it is extremely nice. And we are also previewing the Metatheme selector, which allows you to change all the theme setting across the board in your desktop.

Love,
Miguel.

I had to check it myself to be sure, but Ximian really does sell a stuffed monkey. They hide it at the bottom of the merchandise page, because they are ashamed.

___

Yeah, especially since Microsoft's initial release will have bugs, it would be helpful to the Open Source Movement if there was a OSS .NET alternative available, bug free, three months before Microsoft releases theirs.

Hey, while we are it, lets release an open source Windows XP before they do. Steal their thunder, you know?

Here is the trick with a project like Mono. You have to get that initial excitement so that you can attract volunteer developers. If you have too much time between press release and an actual release, you lose your momentum. Do it too quickly and you release a real shoddy product.

Now if you make it easy to contribute, their will be some low quality contributions. If there are not enough contributors, than the project will not work. That said, I went to the page, read the FAQ, "hey this looks cool". Went to the contribution link and its not real clear how to jump in.
Maybe I am betraying my lack of experience on distributed open source projects, but its not exactly really easy to see how you get onboard.

Mono is the word for `Monkey' in Spanish. We like monkeys.

Although, this is a very clever name considering Microsoft has recently taken to calling the GPL a virus. Now we can say "you misunderstood - it's not a viruses, it's about monkeys."

Mono and Java

Question 35: What about using Java? After all there are many languages that target the Java VM. You can get very good tools for doing Java development on free systems right now. Red Hat has contributed a GCC frontend for Java that can take Java sources or Java byte codes and generate native executables; Transvirtual has implemented Kaffe a JIT engine for Java; Intel also has a Java VM called ORP.

The JVM is not designed to be a general purpose virtual machine. The Common Intermediate Language (CIL), on the other hand, is designed to be a target for a wide variety of programming languages, and has a set of rules designed to be optimal for JITers.

(Feel free to Agree or disagree with this statement, but quit asking the same question over and over. This post does not deserve Karma, since I didn't create anything myself.).

...Grumpy Stefan.

Mono and Java

Question 35: What about using Java? After all there are many languages that target the Java VM. You can get very good tools for doing Java development on free systems right now. Red Hat has contributed a GCC frontend for Java that can take Java sources or Java byte codes and generate native executables; Transvirtual has implemented Kaffe a JIT engine for Java; Intel also has a Java VM called ORP.

The JVM is not designed to be a general purpose virtual machine. The Common Intermediate Language (CIL), on the other hand, is designed to be a target for a wide variety of programming languages, and has a set of rules designed to be optimal for JITers.

(Feel free to Agree or disagree with this statement, but quit asking the same question over and over. This post does not deserve Karma, since I didn't create anything myself.).

...Grumpy Stefan.

Smooth installations? Check out the latest Mandrake or RedHat installations. Very simple. Very user-friendly. Plus they're customizable.

Package management? Check out Ximian's latest manager, Red-Carpet. Makes life 80% earier!

Now, before I possibly get flamed, these comments aren't just my opinion: they're also the opinions of a few of my co-workers. These co-workers were linux-bashers, until I "showed" them how to install RedHat 7.1 (red: Handed them the CD, and watched them boot said CD), then updated to the current Ximian GNOME.

Now, one of them is switching (almost) their entire home network over to Linux (except for one computer for games), and the other is asking our Technical Strategist and MIS why we don't use Linux more (both the TC and the MIS still firmly believe that Linux takes a week to install, and another week to setup, and is still lacking good server apps, like web servers, mail servers, etc...)!

I'm sure that someone will be pissed about me saying this, but it is pretty true. That person is Miguel. Now granted, he is not the only developer, but many people see him as the leader--even if it is unofficially. He helped start the whole project (with others), and he has been at the forefront from the beginning.

As to final say, I'm not so sure. ESR has long held Linux as THE example of the bazaar--but how? It still comes down to a cathedral like decision--i.e. Linus says yea or nay. In this case, Miguel is very loath to come out and say "Your right and you are wrong, now do what I say." I for one like it.

Is it as efficient? Probably not. But it is the true essence of Open Source software. Which has nothing to do with the GPL, but more to do with the democratic approach.

OTOH, I am a firm believer that my code is my code--if I am the sole starter of a project, I have a certain level of say in what happens to it. But then I release under the LGPL--anyone who doesn't like what I'm doing can fork ;-)

If I were you, I would take a look at getting involved in the GnomeBasic project. This project is very exciting, they are in the process of writing a 100% language/syntax compatible visual basic compiler to run on GNU systems. It is also capable of parsing ASP pages when combined with Apache! Although an IDE is not currently on the books, if you were turning to C/C++ then this is a great project to be active with!

You can get to them at http://www.gnome.org/gb/. See also http://www.ximian.com for more details.

CyberKnet

---

Now that the "We'll make money from our automatic update service!" Eazel/Ximian mentality is collapsing, hopefully there'll be more clever angles like this to work.

I take it you have not been following Ximian recently? Their partners include HP, not to mention the fact that Sun and Compaq have joined Ximian's GNOME Foundation. There are some VERY heavy players backing Ximian GNOME as the next generation UNIX desktop, and they're in the prime position to (as they currently are with HP) get development contracts for new features and provide support to the large UNIX players.

I'd say that their business model has never wavered from reasonable. People poo-poo Ximian because they do not understand it, and they associate the failure of Eazel with Ximian.

There's always talk about how "we" certainly aren't going to pay but "Joe Sixpack" will cover the cost of our free lunch.

The desktop consumers of UNIX have always been the financial, educational and scientific communities. Mozilla, Ximian and Linux have been quickly or slowly, but always steadily converting each of those markets (or, as with Ximian, converting the market leaders in those areas).

And where is the Exchange clone for linux? Yup, there is none. I wonder if m$ would kill any company who even tried...

The Exchange clone is Here. (that's http://www.ximian.com/apps/evolution.php3 for the worried-about-bad-links folk). Evolution is already a pretty comprehensive package - if they manage to get it to interact successfully with centralized Groupware servers, such as Lotus Notes Domino, they stand an extremely good chance of taking Gnome deep into the corporate desktop, not just scratching the surface.

There is a similar project underway for KDE 2 - I'm sure we'll get the goods on that from someone else.

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

I'd rather have lots of updates than not enough (as long as they don't break things!)

How many people complain that RedHat doesn't release update RPMs fast enough (though you can now grab them from RawHide) and they don't show up in RedCarpet in a timely manner?

So configure your client to update on a schedule you want and be glad when it DOES run that there are fixes to be had - you could be stuck with a buggy OS that never has the fixes released on a regular basis (*cough*Microsoft*cough*)

--

I'll have to agree with you. I'm one of the 600 who still use Netscape. I like the e-mail client. The only reason I haven't dropped Netscape is because of their e-mail client. I use it along with pine, and I'm happy. But it is convenient to just pop up their browser when I'm viewing e-mail.
When Evolution is finally out of beta, I'll probably drop Netscape then.

Steven Rostedt

The Ximian Setup Tools are being designed to work with multiple Unix variants and Linux distributions.
----

It would have taken you less time to click the link than post a comment.

--Ben

Okay, I finally got in the site. here's the link:
http://www.ximian.com/tech/helix-setup-tools.php3

Okay, here goes my precious karma..

The only thing i can see that Ximian has produced to date this year are press releases and the two "big" projects started way last year - namely Red Carpet and Evolution.

Is anyone besides yourself actively involved in this project anymore? And if so, why is KDE kicking our asses in the progress department?!

Not only is GNOME falling impossibly far behind KDE in terms of in the scope and variety of apps, but we are not even updating our existing applications anymore.

And what about platforms other then i386? As a PPC-based user i cant even get Red Carpet (see it in the FTP directory anywhere?), in addition, i have not seen a single (and i'm dead serious about this) update in the Helix GNOME Updater since last year.

I have recently installed and begun using KDE 2 and i am donwright shocked as to how far they have come in the past year while we, the GNOME community, are still sitting here using GNOME 1.2.

On behalf of the hundreds of users i have encountered both on and offline, Why have the updates to Ximian GNOME stopped? And, if Ximian has chosen to abondon all PPC distros, then i would like to see the Ximian site updated to reflect this, so that we can all move to KDE (of which there are plenty of current packages available)and keep enjoying our Linux experience. And lastly, if Ximan/GNOME needs some help - why are we not asking for it?

I'm not trying to bitch too much (although i dopubt you can tell :-), but i especially feel the pain due to the fact that i am one of your application developers! I have a GNOME project on sourceforge with thousands of users, and it pains me to see them all leaving for KDE!

At this point i have no choice but to begin using kdevelop to port my GNOME app over before all my users leave me.

I'm as impatient as the next guy, especially since red-carpet and evolution are becoming more rad with every release, but it's pretty clear that they've got a lot of work to do to ensure that Ximian works perfectly on all of the platforms that they support, and releasing polished builds is currently less important to them than ensuring stability and consistency (as it should be).

Apparently they're working their collective asses off on it. Supposed to be something special. See here.

I hope they get it done soon; I actually used KDE the other day and found it a well-designed usable environment! Horrors! <using non-FSF software shake> :)

Try Ximian's Evolution, available here. If you use Red Carpet, you can use that to get the latest snapshots. It hasn't hit 1.0 yet but it's getting pretty close and it is almost a feature-complete clone of Outlook (groupware).

You might want to learn about some of the things that I am more excited about Bonobo right now: the Moniker system (basically a name space for Bonobo Objects). It is here: http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/monikers.html

Enjoy,
Miguel.

You might want to learn about some of the things that I am more excited about Bonobo right now: the Moniker system (basically a name space for Bonobo Objects). It is here: http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/monikers.html

Enjoy,
Miguel.

Apparently there was a small problem with 1.0.0. Get 1.0.1 here.

http://primates.ximian.com/~michael/guadec-bonobo- 2001/

Actually, enjoy these quotes from Introduction to Bonobo, by Miguel de Icaza:

The Bonobo::Unknown interface is inspired by the Microsoft COM IUnknown interface but it has been translated into the CORBA world.

Bonobo consists of a number of interfaces for creating compound documents and reusable components. They are inspired by some of the Microsoft OLE2 interfaces for creating compound documents and reusable components.

Just because it utilizes CORBA as a transport mechanism doesn't mean that it wasn't modeled after COM. And there are plenty more links you can find that back this up.

Cheers,

It says so on his webpage that:

* Released bonobo-1.0.1 if only POTFILES.in was checked by make distcheck.

Abstract:

Bonobo is the GNOME architecture for creating reusable software components and compound documents.

-------------------

Hey! I actually found something that describes it.

here.

2. That's something I don't know.

3. Gnome is the desktop environment and Helixcode is a packaging company, AFAIK. Also, they are now know as Ximian.

Now we just need Ximian Gnome!

There's always Red Carpet, as well... I wonder if it will continue to work for free.

I would encourage people to pay free software companies when possible, so that they stay in business. It's good for us all.

- - - - -

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ximian's Red Carpet utility do the same this as Redhat's update agent? I don't see the problem, since someone else is providing a _free_ means to the same end. Plus Red Carpet is a far more attractive, professional looking utility, IMNSHO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ximian's Red Carpet utility do the same this as Redhat's update agent? I don't see the problem, since someone else is providing a _free_ means to the same end. Plus Red Carpet is a far more attractive, professional looking utility, IMNSHO.

One of the biggest misconceptions going around about Linux is that it needs to be easy to install for people to use it. As stated below, the majority of end users aren't even aware that their OS is installed like any other program. More realistically, they believe that elves descended from the magical kingdom of Euripides and installed Windows on their machine :)

As a dummy myself I know I couldn't install Linux without help from techie friends. It needs to be simple, just point and click.

I have found Windows to be much more difficult to install than Linux, furthermore most people who want to e-mail a photo of their cat to a relative have never installed Windows before in their life. They simply had it preinstalled for them at the factory where the computer was built, or the store from which they bought it.

It also has to be at least as pretty as Windows, because when you don't know anything about something, you tend to choose the most "professional" looking thing.

Linux can be as pretty as and even more pretty than Windows (Checked themes.org recently?) and a majority of the themes cater to the Windows-style button layout, which means people used to Windows can effectively navigate it.

Also, if all people want to do is use e-mail, then Linux is a perfect solution. I have a Linux box set up for my mother who is totally ignorant when it comes to computers, but she knows how to use apps like Word and such.

She has a Slackware box running a Windows-like theme for Icewm, and uses Netscape, Netscape Mail and WordPerfect without any problems what-so-ever, and without having to come and ask me questions about the interface or about Linux in general. When Evolution is finally released, this gap will be bridged even more so.

• Remote storage. Great, but it's integrated only within Nautilus; which means (a) no command-line access, (b) not even access from other desktop apps (esp. KDE ones!)
• An installer. Haven't I seen something like that before? (Hint: Ximian...) Yes! We also have Red Carpet!

SOAP is already a cross-platform standard. So what is this SOUP thing actually? The only clue in the C|Net article is where it says "Ximian is creating a tool that will allow Web services written for Linux to be compiled for SOAP. De Icaza said the compiler could be available to developers within two months."

Ah. So it's a tool of some sort, not a protocol. A google search on "Ximian SOUP" only turns up this message, which isn't that helpful (the "synapse" server it refers to is maybe https://synapse.ximian.com/, which isn't publicly accessible. Anyone actually know what this thing IS?

--

SOAP is already a cross-platform standard. So what is this SOUP thing actually? The only clue in the C|Net article is where it says "Ximian is creating a tool that will allow Web services written for Linux to be compiled for SOAP. De Icaza said the compiler could be available to developers within two months."

Ah. So it's a tool of some sort, not a protocol. A google search on "Ximian SOUP" only turns up this message, which isn't that helpful (the "synapse" server it refers to is maybe https://synapse.ximian.com/, which isn't publicly accessible. Anyone actually know what this thing IS?

--

This was previously mentioned at Slashdot in a prior OpenMail story. This Summit Strategies, March 20, 1997 page may be of interest as well:

Windows NT Server-based Solutions for the Enterprise:
HP will promote Microsoft Exchange Server as the strategic NT messaging, solution--and discontinue development of OpenMail for NT. HP will also provide consulting services for Exchange migration and integration.

Looks as if MSFT may have exploited HP in the past to fend off competition in the enterprise communications market.

My own read of the current action: Bruce is quite possibly right, there is too much third-party baggage in OpenMail for it to be a successesful free software play. However, opening up core APIs to the free software movement, particularly for projects such as OpenFlock or Evolution could be very helpful. Still, I've got to say that Don Marti's analysis smells strongly of truth.

What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?

The following links might be interesting to read:

1, 2, 3, 4.

Nautilus --which has a large set of developers and a lot of work going towards it-- is really one of the core components of the desktop. I am sorry for Alan if there are not too many hackers working on new IRC clients, or on new color selectors, I think that overall, we are more focused on the problems of users than we were in the past.

Components like Evolution contain some killer features that will help a lot of people transition to Linux, and the kind of work and effort required to develop an application of this size is not trivial. Just supporting every feature correctly for IMAP and broken IMAP servers is a daunting task. Having the best syncronizing tool for PalmPilots and for syncing multiple devices is also an important feature not available anywhere else (not to mention vFolders, quick searches, great user interfaces and more).

Both applications (Nautilus and Evolution) rely on very new technologies that are at the core of GNOME

Also, look at things like the Ximian Setup Tools, which are just a set of GNOME applications (branded by my company, to get some credit for the work we are putting on it) that addresses the major problem of having a user-friendly unified system configuration for Unix (here)

Our work on the Bonobo foundation is unparalleled. Once we started deploying it, many new ideas came out (like Monikers) that have enabled extremely powerful mechanisms to be created.

We sadly do not have white-papers for all of our technologies, but we are working towards documenting them. If you are interested in helping, get in touch with me.

A few things we have recently done and are shipping as part of GNOME 1.4:

• Bonobo 1.0 Ready to ship with GNOME 1.4

• GtkHTML: An HTML editor and rendering engine.

• EBrowser: A Bonobo component to do web browsing

• Gnome Spell: A Bonobo component for doing spelling, suggestions, and dictionary lookups. All available to any application that supports Bonobo.

• Gnome VFS: Access any resources on the network transparently.

Other things like Gtk from frame buffers and Pango are developed at the RHAD Labs (http://www.labs.redhat.com) and constitute part of the core technologies in GNOME 2.0

Miguel.

The following links might be interesting to read:

1, 2, 3, 4.

Nautilus --which has a large set of developers and a lot of work going towards it-- is really one of the core components of the desktop. I am sorry for Alan if there are not too many hackers working on new IRC clients, or on new color selectors, I think that overall, we are more focused on the problems of users than we were in the past.

Components like Evolution contain some killer features that will help a lot of people transition to Linux, and the kind of work and effort required to develop an application of this size is not trivial. Just supporting every feature correctly for IMAP and broken IMAP servers is a daunting task. Having the best syncronizing tool for PalmPilots and for syncing multiple devices is also an important feature not available anywhere else (not to mention vFolders, quick searches, great user interfaces and more).

Both applications (Nautilus and Evolution) rely on very new technologies that are at the core of GNOME

Also, look at things like the Ximian Setup Tools, which are just a set of GNOME applications (branded by my company, to get some credit for the work we are putting on it) that addresses the major problem of having a user-friendly unified system configuration for Unix (here)

Our work on the Bonobo foundation is unparalleled. Once we started deploying it, many new ideas came out (like Monikers) that have enabled extremely powerful mechanisms to be created.

We sadly do not have white-papers for all of our technologies, but we are working towards documenting them. If you are interested in helping, get in touch with me.

A few things we have recently done and are shipping as part of GNOME 1.4:

• Bonobo 1.0 Ready to ship with GNOME 1.4

• GtkHTML: An HTML editor and rendering engine.

• EBrowser: A Bonobo component to do web browsing

• Gnome Spell: A Bonobo component for doing spelling, suggestions, and dictionary lookups. All available to any application that supports Bonobo.

• Gnome VFS: Access any resources on the network transparently.

Other things like Gtk from frame buffers and Pango are developed at the RHAD Labs (http://www.labs.redhat.com) and constitute part of the core technologies in GNOME 2.0

Miguel.

The following links might be interesting to read:

1, 2, 3, 4.

Nautilus --which has a large set of developers and a lot of work going towards it-- is really one of the core components of the desktop. I am sorry for Alan if there are not too many hackers working on new IRC clients, or on new color selectors, I think that overall, we are more focused on the problems of users than we were in the past.

Components like Evolution contain some killer features that will help a lot of people transition to Linux, and the kind of work and effort required to develop an application of this size is not trivial. Just supporting every feature correctly for IMAP and broken IMAP servers is a daunting task. Having the best syncronizing tool for PalmPilots and for syncing multiple devices is also an important feature not available anywhere else (not to mention vFolders, quick searches, great user interfaces and more).

Both applications (Nautilus and Evolution) rely on very new technologies that are at the core of GNOME

Also, look at things like the Ximian Setup Tools, which are just a set of GNOME applications (branded by my company, to get some credit for the work we are putting on it) that addresses the major problem of having a user-friendly unified system configuration for Unix (here)

Our work on the Bonobo foundation is unparalleled. Once we started deploying it, many new ideas came out (like Monikers) that have enabled extremely powerful mechanisms to be created.

We sadly do not have white-papers for all of our technologies, but we are working towards documenting them. If you are interested in helping, get in touch with me.

A few things we have recently done and are shipping as part of GNOME 1.4:

• Bonobo 1.0 Ready to ship with GNOME 1.4

• GtkHTML: An HTML editor and rendering engine.

• EBrowser: A Bonobo component to do web browsing

• Gnome Spell: A Bonobo component for doing spelling, suggestions, and dictionary lookups. All available to any application that supports Bonobo.

• Gnome VFS: Access any resources on the network transparently.

Other things like Gtk from frame buffers and Pango are developed at the RHAD Labs (http://www.labs.redhat.com) and constitute part of the core technologies in GNOME 2.0

Miguel.

According to the Red Carpet homepage:

If you're an ISV or other software developer, and would like to have your software deployed with a Red Carpet channel, please visit our partners page and let us know.

Following the partners got me to an error page but it's clear that Ximian wants to make money by having people pay for having a red carpet channel.

While I understand that they have to make money somehow, I find it very disturbing that the only way to get my software listed is to pay Ximian or to have it included in all distributions.

Of course the software is GPL'd and it could be hacked to have a "add channel" menu (it would be really cool if clicking a link in mozilla or a file in Nautilus would do this) but such a patch will probably never make it into the distributions.

According to the Red Carpet homepage:

If you're an ISV or other software developer, and would like to have your software deployed with a Red Carpet channel, please visit our partners page and let us know.

Following the partners got me to an error page but it's clear that Ximian wants to make money by having people pay for having a red carpet channel.

While I understand that they have to make money somehow, I find it very disturbing that the only way to get my software listed is to pay Ximian or to have it included in all distributions.

Of course the software is GPL'd and it could be hacked to have a "add channel" menu (it would be really cool if clicking a link in mozilla or a file in Nautilus would do this) but such a patch will probably never make it into the distributions.

-----

Ximian Gnome is available for Mandrake from (for example) http://spidermonkey.ximian.com/distributions/Mandr ake-7/ (as well as via the Ximian installer) and this includes 7.2-specific versions of some packages.

You forgot the update/resolution; see http://www.ximian.com/google.php3

Extracts:

"Ximian CEO Nat Friedman was discussing the advertisements with Mr. Pour. They both agreed that the discord was counterproductive, and quickly reached an amicable resolution."

"Ximian will revise its advertisements on Google to eliminate the possibility of confusion, and will not create new advertising campaigns based on KDE-related keyword searches."

Ximian packages are available for at least Red Hat 6 and 7. Get them while they're fresh. Unfortunately they don't include the Fifth Toe packages, which will probably be one of the biggest changes your average user will note over 1.2.

I mean, seriously... if you're writing open-source software and don't have a dumb/geeky/clever name for it, how good can it be, ya know? :-)