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Apple Forces Aqua Themes Off themes.org
Teferi writes "I was browsing t.o and just noticed this - Apple has apparently sent a Cease and Desist letter to themes.org stating that several of the OSX-look themes up othere are copyright violations, because they use the Apple logo in one or two small places (like this theme). " I've actually exchanged mail with OctobrX on this one, and read the C&D letter. Apple's stating violation based on using of copyrighted materials - the Mac OS and Apple logos in this case. Hopefully, now that Apple is talking with the creator of the themes, things can be resolved amicably, and the themes restored - but for the meantime, the themes have been pulled.
If apple con stop and force themes off, then now what is stopping movie companies from stoping themes based on movies? Such as the common fav matrix theme (dont know why) things that Im sure the producers and the file company would love to see removed and then paid for.
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
I really wish that the Beatles has sued 'Apple' for using their Record Labels name. It STILL pisses me off.
A simple substitution might be in order as I guess the apple image is a trademark. Remember that you need to protect your trademark to maintain your ownership of it.
Mark
Manager to insurance broker: 'We'll insure everything but the clock. Everyone watches that.'
As someone on themes.org said, this is purely a trademark issue, since they left other themes that do not use the Apple symbol, but do use a MacOS look alone, e.g., Aqua.
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bgphints - internet routing news, hints and ti
This should be interesting.
We should get to see how reasonable Apple can be... hopefully the themes can go back up after modification. We really shouldn't be using the _actual_ Apple logo for themes.
But then again, why is apple snooping around a Linux Desktop Themes site for copyright violations?
Apple has the potential to either show itself as a more benevolent and flexible bigwig, or as an immature "mine mine mine" Big Corp(tm). A showing of the latter will further alienate the Linux/Apple communities, methinks.
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
warn "Just Another Perl User" if $anyone_cares;
I just hope the people who made the themes remove the stupid logos and put the themes back up - they were great! But as long as the logo is there, I think Apple is doing the only reasonable thing by opposing the themes.
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AC
Apple probably has a point with this, if the themes had the Apple logo in them. The Apple logo is a trademark and they must protect it. I just checked sawmill.themes.org and all the Mac OS X like themes (like Aqua X are still present.
Of course none of the ones remaining have Apple logos.
No one got beat up more often than the mimes of the old west!
remove the trademaked icon and post it again. no problem ...
Back in the days when Copland was the Next Big Thing on the horizon, the future of MacOS' look was to be an insanely great new look named "high tech" or somesuch (I forget the name). Some people saw screenshots of it and made Kaleidoscope schemes based on it. Soon enough, these were pulled, no doubt because of Apple protecting its look and feel.
Apple regard their look and feel as a trademark and defend it jealously. It wouldn't surprise me if they had taken out design patents on key aspects of it. If Apple are to be open and non-proprietorial about anything, it is not going to be their look and feel.
I'd be very surprised if Apple allow this to be resolved with anything short of the withdrawal of anything vaguely Aqua-like.
It's their logo and it was intended to be their logo when the theme was made, and someone could argue that if someone saw the apple logo on someones desktop then someone might think that computer was an apple computer. Whether that is good or bad for apple I dunno, but it's probaly bad for idiots who go out and buy an apple and then don't get all the cool widgets they saw on the fake Xwin apple.
-[ World domination - rains.net ]-
Or a bananna instead of the apple? There's enough fruit for everyone.
They missed quite a few themes that include the Macintosh logo. Well, at least one, this one. Not that I am asking for them to be removed, but is it really Macintosh logos they're after, or is it they don't want MacOSX look alikes? Cant' help but to wonder eventhough I am familiar with copyright laws and Mac's need to enforce it (or loose it). Could be they just didn't notice these other themes.
If it is simply a matter of trademark protection, when will /. get a C&D of it's own for using the Apple logo to indicate news relating to Apple (like the one used on this article)? ^_^ Or are there different legal issues for a news site to use trademarked images than other sites/themes/etc?
The idea is to prevent consumer confusion. A movie logo on a software product is not likely to cause the software to be mistaken for the movie. A computer manufacturer's logo on a software product is likely to cause at least some people to assume that the product was made by the company whose logo appears in the product.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
I wasn't real sure on this one...so I called my uncle who is a copyright lawyer. He says that if a company begins letting people use their trademark without giving them credit, they may very well lose any trademark battle they have. So, although those themes may have been made out of respect...if Apple takes someone to court for using their trademark because it was done negatively, there is a good chance that by throwing the fact that others use their trademark without displaying that it is Apple's tm, that they will not win the court battle. Otherwise, once you let one person use it without them showing that it is trademarked...it would be difficult to stop another person from using it.
Seems that a lot of people here do not realise what I think you meant to say, but didn't quite get out.
Since the Apple logo is a trademark...
Apple MUST agressively protect it, or they will LOSE the rights to said trademark. The same applies to ANY trademark.
Did't Linus have to shutdown an auction of *linux*.* domain names not too long ago? Well that's the same thing. The holder of a trademark, be it Apple or Linux or Sun or whoever, can NOT ignore ANY transgression. If they DO, they lose the rights to that mark.
Yeah, I know that's bass ackwards. Buy that's out wonderful intellectual property laws. Oppressively strict protection in some places, ridiculously loose in others. Seems that they are written only to provide income for lawyers, not protect the intrest of consumers OR producers.... (sigh).
john
Imagine all the people...
Bah... I still liked the rainbow apple better anyway :)
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Part of the reason Apple re-did the logo:
1) To cheapen up the printing of materials. 1 color vs 6.
2) To allow Apple to establish an iron rule over the brand. Mr. Jobs does understand the importance of branding. He'd love to see Apple become as big a brand as Sony.
If Apple is wanting EVERY theme that makes the machine look Aqua-esque (or Mac OS esque) then someone needs to take Apple to court. If they are only being anal about the 1/2 chewed Apple logo, they are intitled to be anal.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Well, just looking at the screen shot of the theme link you posted (I've not tried the theme itself), there is both the MacOS face logo thingy, and the apple logo in the top bar of that theme.
Of course, the screen shot could be from the wrong theme, but hey..
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
From the website:
"About 1 week ago, VA Linux Systems received a Cease and Desist letter from Apple Computer, Inc. of Cupertino asking us to remove this and one other theme from the themes.org website. After reviewing Apple's request, we decided to comply.
We have sent a copy of the Apple Cease and Desist letter on to the theme authors, and told Apple to resolve its allegations with those individuals directly. In the meantime, VA felt that the presence of Apple's logo in the theme justified pulling the themes, pending a resolution."
I'll admit I do not have all the facts here and I would like to know more. However it would seem that they're trying to pass responsibility for the whole thing on the little guy who authored the theme. That seems awfully curious, granted that could be is how business for VA. I'm sure plenty of companies would do the same, but I was sort of disappointed with VA when I read that. It would be interesting hear a few more details about this.
So what's the problem? If there were any evidence that Apple had been vicious or overbearing about (Remove these themes This Instant or we'll break you and your site) I would understand people being upset. But from what little evidence is available this sounds as if it was a polite reminder that Apple has to protect those trademarks or lose them, and those themes are in violation. If someone knows otherwise, say so.
Pug
Whether they're called Faith, Axioms, or Assumptions,
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
I doubt they would try to stop a site like /. from using the apple logo.
First off, it's probably considered fair use, somehow. Using the apple logo to signify stories about Apple is hardly misuse of the logo. Otherwise IBM would sue the Wall Street Journal or something stupid like that.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
"The government helps those who help themselves" -- at least in this instance.
I definitely don't see this as a case of MegaCorp cracking down on the innocent little opensourcers. Whoever made the theme *did* use the Apple logo, which to a newbie could possibly be construed as meaning that the theme was officially supported by Apple.
I've seen lots of Apple-logo themes, and I had always wondered why Apple was doing anything, since it could cause them major problems down the road (if a *real* trademark issue ever came up).
ICQ: 49636524
snowphoton@mindspring.com
Got Rhinos?
Peoples,
If someone writes code and posts it somewhere they are usually going to give themselves credit and hopefully a GPL tag too. Code is kinda your product. Well Apple's sig. for its products is that Apple Logo. Apple is just making sure that when people see that Apple its a clear indication of who made it (like your sig is a clear indication that your code was written by you). You probably wouldn't want me to tag my code with your name (mainly because my code is awful and may diminish your name as an exellent programmer if you don't act quickly). Trademarks must be defended to be kept.
Actually the Apple Records did sue, although they settled out of court. Apple Computer agreed that they would not make machines that create music. (Third parties are free to do anything they like.) None of the sound effects included with a Mac system has ever been a musical note for this reason, they are always things like "quack", "purr", "beep." The only one that does sound like an instrument is called "sosumi". As for /. and the Apple logo, it is fair-use. /. is writing (or allowing) editorial comment and debate about Apple. It is the same as a newspaper using the logo in a story about Apple. If /. were to use the Apple logo in a marketing campaign, Apple would have a case.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they make as they fly by
why bother, if the idiot cannot read the sales figures for him/herself then they won't be able to read this message
Make a computer behave and look like a competitor (with the logo) and you may take away their business.
Make a computer ispired by a movie or a book and you may create business...
Twice.
Once when they were first formed. McCartney and his merry little band of legal jackals attacked Apple when it was still Jobs and Woz working out of their garage, introducing Apple Computer to the wonderful world of litigation.
They tried to get Apple to change it's name to various other fruits, like Orange and Banana. Sonn enough tho, Jobs and co. hired competent legal council and found out that the beatles had no legal leg to stand on, so long as Apple was in the computer business, not the music business.
Not content with peaceful coexistence, misters "we're better than Jeasus" kept an eye on Apple from afar, waiting until they were a big company with lots of money they could extort, rather than two kids in a garage.
The beatles sued again when Apple released a Macintosh that had the POTENTIAL to used with MIDI. This was settled out of court for one of those infamous "undisclosed sums".
Incidently, that lawsuit was the origin of the "sosumi" beep in the Mac sound control panel. It was originally to be called "xylophone" (spelling?)... but Apple's legal dept thought that having a mucical insturment named in the OS woulod hurt Apple's case against mccartney and his minions. So the engineers renamed the beep "sosumi". They spelled it out over the phone to the approving lawyer, telling him it was a Jappanese word for "peace and harmony" or sone such. The legal dept agreed, and thus a beep was born.
Both cases (and the development of the "Sosumu" beep) can be read about in more detail in Owen Linzmeyers: "The Mac Bathroom Reader" or the sequel by the same author *title of the sequel escapes me tho).
john
Imagine all the people...
NJV
Wasn't there a big deal going on with IBM...oh...12-18 monthes ago?
/. could use just the "official" IBM logo?
/. had a nice 3D looking IBM logo...and then the IBM lawyers came down on Rob...and after a week or so it was decided that
I'm showing my age here right?
If I remeber right...didn't the Stereo Component maker Mackintosh sue Apple too? Trademark violation because of the Macintosh computer...
This was about trademarks. And apple probably has an inflexible policy that all trademark infringement has to be challenged. They dont care about the look and feel which is obviously cloned in similiar themes which did not have the apple logo (This has been stated). One of the uses of a trademark is to identifier the producer of a product. Sure, apple *might* have let this slide, which would have been a decent thing to do; but what about users that may have been under the impression that Apple had actually created and approved the theme? I think this was a good idea.. It really isnt about copyright infringement, which *may* cover some of the movie and people themes. And it sounds like once the logo is removed the theme should be fine.
Now that I think about it, my GTK theme doesn't have any logos in it. All of the logos are in the Enlightenment theme. Hmm...
--Ben
So Apple is prepared to sue over the use of a two dimensional shape ?
/. If anyone produced knock-offs of the innovative parts of those, we would all wish to see the copier punished.
Apple launched some new toys yesterday. I saw it here on
But to sue over someone using a logo ? I'm sorry ! Logos are two dimensional. There are millions of organisations in the world with logos. Everytime you doodle, or perform a bodily function, you risk imitating someones logo ! The mathematics of topology in two dimensions, and the number of logos in the world make this unavoidable.
This is not about Apple the technology leaders. This is about Apple, once the technology leaders now being led by their marketing executives. This 'cease and desist' letter demonstrates that in their case, style has defeated substance. There will be no more toys to kill for from Apple, just pretty monitor cases, pretty logos and law suits for anyone threatening the topology of their logo, or using the wrong shade of blue anywhere.
Stephen Hawking has written another book. It's about time as well.
1. A rotten looking apple, with a worm sticking out ot it.
2. An upward extended middle finger in rainbow colors.
3. The now defunct (maybe) SGI cube.
4. A window of many colors, flapping in the wind - from right to left so we don't offend MS-Anyone(TM).
5. Tux, eating an apple.
6. A nicely rendered drop of water that just screams "Aqua!".
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Fascinating idea, but no sane theme would require such a trick or in any way rely on it. There are just too many people without constant connections and besides, anything such as a windowmanger, imho, should never depend on network availability or another particular machine (I don't even run wms stored on nfs, I copy them first, then use em :)
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
stating violation based on using of copyrighted materials - the Mac OS and Apple logos in this case.
This is one of my pet peeves, right up there with misspelling "lose" as "loose". Copyrights are, as the name implies, the right to copy something. Trademarks are logos and words which are used by companies to identify and distinguish themselves.
Trademark law has one important difference from copyright law, and that's the "enforce it or lose it" clause. If Apple didn't go after these and other unauthorized uses of its trademarks, it could end up losing the rights to them. It's much worse with words, and Xerox has a never-ending battle to avoid having their company name become a generic word.
If copyright law was like this, it would either be complete anarchy (it's too easy to copy something in private) or a complete police state (to hunt down every instance of illegally copied material).
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
What you are remembering is Jobs showboating.
Jef Rafkin called his project Macintosh. When Steve was moved to Macintosh (because no one else in the company wanted to deal with him) Jobs and the rest of the crew liked the name.
Apple tried to buy the name off the stereo maker. No luck. Then, Jobs walked into a meeting when spirits within the Mac developer group was low, and showboated. He announced that Apple had bought the name Macintosh.
1) Apple could try to get the name, and prove Jobs to be a liar.
2) Apple had to buy the name...whatever the cost, thus the lie of Jobs would not be known.
6 million in early 1980 dollars is the common figure bantered about for what the name cost Apple.
So, no suit.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
The E-X theme was pulled not the Aqua and Aqua-X themes or whatever they are called (the one you linked to).
-- filgy
Typical David vs Galiath situation. Big bad evil corporation Apple comes knocking down on Joe Smoe theme creator, demanding that s/he to remove clearly copyrighted material. Of course, the only kind of copyright that we slashdoters have to respect is the GNU, we see any other kind of copyrights as inferior and just a way for big bad evil corporations to make more money. Well excuse them for trying to make a bug.(spl? :)
Or an outline of Tux, done in the same blue hues?
Sounds like the icon that should have been used in the first place. An aqua embossed silouette (sp?) of Tux would be perfect. An option to select from various "aquified" icons like Red Hat, KDE, and Gnome icons would be even better.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
I'm seeing several people saying that Apple needs to defend their trademark to protect it, but they also could give these authors express written permission to use it. Which, wouldn't make them look like bullies, and also keep them honest on trademark patrol.
But that's not their motive here. Their motive is to protect their "look and feel." There's plenty of places on the net where apple's logo is being used without express written consent, and I don't see them going after them. I know the "Apple Platinum" & "eMac" themes have an apple logo... Hmmm... But that's old stuff. So they aren't too worried about that.
<conspiracy theory>
Could it be that Apple is going after Linux, because it's a competitor for their OS? It runs on their machines, is a better OS, and now can look just like it? Apple's had quite a run without competition for the OS on their machines. They got rid of Mac Clones, because they couldn't handle the competition. Prices were just too low. Fortunately for Apple, they had the OS to leverage, and without licences for Mac OS, these clones weren't really worth too much. Now... Linux is a mainstream competitor, and runs on Apple hardware, and can look just like their latest and greatest. Could someone build a G4 based machine with Linux preinstalled with the E-X theme and Aqua GTK theme on it? It's a possibility. Are they worried? I'm guessing so.
</conspiracy theory>
Hmmm, I saw a theme for E that looks just like mac OS, even has the "Apple" logo! I guess I'll just buy an intel machine and install E withthe mac OS theme instead of buying a Mac.
Holy shit! can't they find anything better to do? Thier lawyers must have gotte bored one day and typed "Apple look-alike" Into a search engine. This is the dumbest thing I have heard today! I am sure I'll hear more though.
"If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin
This is a trademark issue. That's a very different beast. Why? Consider: all the theme makers have to do is replace the Apple logo with something else and then they can repost the themes. They don't have to change anything else. I'd say that the Apple logo in the corner isn't a critical part of the theme's "look and feel."
Personally, I do find it to be in extremely poor taste that these theme makers are ripping off a GUI that hasn't even been released yet. Sure, it's not illegal, but it's only fair to let the company that came up with that GUI be the first to release it to the world. If you still want it on your machine, then release the theme after that. But Apple did the work on the GUI; I don't see what's so unfair about them wanting to release it first. They can't do anything about it now, I know, but I don't see why the themers couldn't have just left well enough alone and waited till after OSX's release (or at least until after OSX DP3's release) to turn their themes loose.
If that is the case then Slashdot should be receiving a cease and desist order soon too, because the story itself has the blue apple logo on it.
Wouldn't Apple really be more interested in getting rid of "Aqua-like" themes that don't portray their logo than getting at the ones that do? After all it is free advertising for their "look and feel" that they pride themselves so much on.
I understand that the case for trademarks as stated in similar cases is that each company must police the use of it's own trademark(s). By allowing exceptions adds strength to a case involving a more dis-honourable use of the trademark by way of "You never said anything about themes.org using your trademark, so why can't I?".
I'm sure Apple want this cut-and-dry, so please don't start moaning to Apple about how great Linux/themes.org is? And how naughty Apple are for smacking them on their themes.
Just my pennies worth... I don't often voice my opinions these days, but I felt I should make my point on this case.
Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -
1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
I don't think that the author of the theme was correct in including the Apple Logo in the first place. It wasn't critical to the look or feel, and is trademarked by Apple. As long as Apple doesn't attempt to take down *all* the Aqua themes, logo or not, I think they have not overstepped their bounds.
"And you, ma'am, are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober" --Winston Churchill
Apple was using "Carl Sagan" as an internal codename for a Macintosh under development.
Well, surely you know how anxious Apple fans are for news about the latest products. Sure enough, the news got outside the walls of Cupertino and into the Macintosh community.
Word eventually got to Carl Sagan that Apple was using his name for a codename, and he promptly sued Apple.
The engineering team obligingly changed the code name of the soon to be released Macintish. the new codename????
Butthead Astronomer
Incidently, the two other products under development at the time were codenamed "Cold Fusion" and "PDM" which was short for "PiltDown Man". Legend has it that Sagan (the astronomer) was offended at being included in the company of two of the more well-known scientific hoaxes of recent years, and THAT's why he sued.
It could also have been a good indigation of Apple's opinion of the man BEFORE the suit. "Butthead Astronomer" is a VERY good indication of their opinion of Sagan AFTER the suit.
As before, all of this can be found in more detail in Linzmeyers "The Mac Bathroom Reader" and it's sequel.
john
Imagine all the people...
I recently went to an Apple hosted Mac X demo and although not too impressed, here's what happened. After showing off what "apple" supposedely invented, the guy started pitching the "open source" model that Darwin was following and that is was great thing and blah blah blah. Well Darwin to my understanding IS a good kernel, so I asked him (to test his understanding of open source and to otherwise just plain try and stump him), if apple was using an open source kernel, in there OS, how could that charge for the OS, to which he replied, after thinking for a minute, "we are going to charge for the interface", to which I replied, so conceivably I could use your darwin kernel and my own interface (X windows), he said sure ;) So it would seem that apple is trying to protect its "bells and whistles" approach to sales. I don't use a Mac, but it seems to me that the people who do, either use them because there "easy" ie people who don't have a clue, or they use them 'cuz the graphics are great (read: a long time ago) and do some sort of desktop publishing. These people could prolly care less what a button looks like cuz they use their Macs to do a particular job. Apple it seems is going after the "non-clued" crown touting it's interface as the newest vogue thing to have on your lap next to your gucci handbag.... Anyway, rambling aside, why not just make a stupid rotting apple, or the authors idea of a worm, or some other stinking fruit to replace the precious 'logo' which apparently is goint to make or break apples business model....what a croc of apples...
There was a big stink at skinz.org over the WinAqua skin for WindowBlinds; Apple seemed to drop their objections to that skin as soon as the author removed the logo.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
What about the Logo that slashdot so prominently ddisplays quite frequently? Does Andover.net have permission from apple to do this?
Now that I think about it, themes are the ultimate tribute to a GUI. People try to make different hardware look and feel like the real thing.
Personally, I can't afford to buy a Mac, as much as I'd like to use it for video caputre and editing.
Instead, I pretend I have one and use KDE with a neat trade-marked Apple icon in the corner instead of the ugly K. Of course, this doesn't bring me any closer to the video editing goal, but it still looks pretty. It's also good propaganda for Apple - I haven't changed my theme in a couple of months and have started craving a G4.
In this aspect, I'm glad that Apple hasn't gone after other themes; just after the one that violated its trademark.
Cheers,
Bart
Listen if they are going to play at being more open to open source and all that, then they should have taken the brave step and given short written permission to anyone willing to submit their themes on themes.org, only.
This approval would amount to consent so the company would not lose its claim over the copyrighted material. However, at the same time, it would have given the big Apple brand another claim of being friendly to the Open Source community. Just a thought and maybe it would not have worked. I like to hear replies on this one.
ACK
As if the size should determine whether or not it's truly a copyright violation.
Apple would be satisfied if this was done, because their trademark wouldn't be involved.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Ok, Banning aqua theme's isn't gonna make people go out and buy G4's, so that's off the list. As for banning linux aqua theme's somehow preventing consumer confusion.. well, newbie's are the ones that get confused and newbie's don't use linux. I suppose it's apple's PR dept's idea of fair play, you ban the windows themes then you have to ban the linux themes. Otherwise that would mean apple's creating market for linux and losing market for apple products... somehow. Apple was stupid enough to release their new UI before they had a shipping product. Why they released it so early was problably because they had no new hardware to show at Macworld in SF, but that's speculation. When will apple learn that pushing around consumers does not make potential customers?
Trolls, it must be cool to be that bored.
IANAL, but what about this: if we assume that Apple is made up of fairly decent people, and I don't see why we shouldn't at this point, then could this possibly work out for them without being a case of TM dillution ? They could grant a very limited license to use the logo to individuals who create Aqua-alike themes. That way they could still be maintaining legal control of their trademark, sorta, without stepping on the toes of developers. They could either make a webpage to sign up for the limited-use license, or they could just grant it on a case-by-case basis as it came to their attention, retroactively.
25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
I'm just going to go ahead and be generous and assume this was an attempt at irony.
Lackluster iMac DV sales? WTF?!?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
this has a web page to pig latin converter.
http://voyager.cns.ohiou.edu/~ jrantane/menu/pig.html
They revamped the logo because, quite frankly, it was ugly and anachronistic. They wanted to get away from the individual colors and emphasize the outline, the way Nike has done with its swoosh -- in fact, Steve Jobs has claimed that the apple logo's shapes is one of the most recognized logos around (and that it is apple's "swoosh").
Frankly, I don't blame them. I have an old Powermac 8500 sitting in the corner, and the colored logo against the platinum case is really silly. It made sense back in the Apple II* days when you could only have 16 colors, and so your logo had to use just those colors if you ever wanted to display it on the screen. What was once a technological advance (ooooh, color!) is now just an anachronism (eeew, color!).
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
First off, you're totally right about Apple, its all a trademark thing and the guys making the Aqua theme have obviously already provoked Apple and refused to remove their logo (no doubtedyl in the name of freedom.... too bad its theft, not freedom).
Second off, you're wrong about Linus. Linus does not own a trademark that applies to domain names. Go ahead and read the patent application yourself on the webite, Linus' trademark is only on the word "Linux" when used as the name of an operating system. What Linus did was flat out bullying and nothing else. If he had come after me, I would have fought him in court and made his lawyers look like the retards they are.
Esperandi
Ok, maybe that's too harsh.
Still, I think Apple would have done better contacting the authors of the themes directly, and asking politely instead of ordering. If done properly, it might have actually built them good will ("hey, Apple was really cool about it"), instead of reminding everyone of their propensity to sue.
Jon
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
They've spent a great deal of time and money creating aqua and IMO deserve the right to protect that investment.
Sure they could've licensed it, but saying that, there's no real reason for the skin to use the Apple logo. For a start, the 'feel' of Aqua isn't there.. just the look.
The Apple symbol is their signature. It's theirs to put on *their* products. That's the point of the trademark.
It might've been nicer if they'd nicely asked first, rather than C&D'ing them, but I'm not sure how the obligatory trademark protection thing would like that... maybe they *have* to use lawyers.
No offense to the homosexual readers/posters, but the old Apple logo suggested gayness. I used to have an Apple window sticker in my car, and my sister asked me about it one day. She wondered why I had a gay pride sticker in my car and thought that other people must have assumed the same that saw it. It never crossed my mind until that point, and afterwards I shamefully removed it. I guess I'll get another window sticker of the cooler, newer ice blue logo sometime.
We need not assume anything. The fact is, Apple is a company which is out to make money. Apple wants to be able to continue to make money, and so it protects its interest.
Being selfish is to be expected, but refusing to support defective products like the powerbook 5300 is purely irresponsible. Apple made an enemy of me several years ago, and I can't see the good in a company that would do that to a customer (and a student who would have potentially bought a lot more of their stuff, at that!).-- end rant
Today Apple benefits from the same kind of hype that Amazon.com, linuxone.com, and Microsoft... colored plastic, huge advertising budgets, and corporate interests characterize the Apple computer of today. Let the buyer beware!
Amazing magic tricks
Apple could just grant themes.org permission to use their trademark in Apple look a like themes.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
I don't have time to check all the posts to see if someone has done it already but seeing as many people used /. to put up mirrors of DeCSS, why don't people who have a copy (i don't) put up mirrors?- ---------
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"If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists" -
The first time I got a good feel for Aqua and what all the "lickable design" brouhaha was about was when I got an Aqua-esque skin for my OS, I think it is a good way to promote the OS's new look and familiarize people with it. It's free advertising, granted the logo is protected by copyright, but I find it hard to beleive that this establshes precedent or moves them closer to having the copyright become a colloquilaism, much like "kleenex" or "Xerox." All in all, Apple has long been far too controling of their specs and designs and therefore have locked themselves into a narrow audience.
I can't say I'm surprised to see that once again, people are posting replies as if they were the damn holders of a trademark themselves. It always amazes me how quickly people will rally behind a corporation (ok, even thogh it's Apple) when it is in the interest of self righteous condescention to other posters.
"I'm disrespectful to dirt! Can you see I am serious?"
You know, this is one thing I'd really like to see addressed, whther it be with a new law, or a constitutional amendment, whichever it would take. I mean, name me one other right that you can legally lose by failing to sue someone? It would be like if you let someone stand in your hotel lobby during a rain shower, and then couldn't evict squatters afterwards.
This situation just creates stupid lawsuits and forces companies to do things which don't really help them and only create bad will. For example, a few years back, Disney had to tell a daycare (maybe it was a preschool) to get rid of the paintings of Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse they had up on their walls. Disney didn't have a choice, because of the way the trademark law is set up. But if they had had the choice, I really doubt that they would have sent the daycare a cease & desist letter. After all, it's really free advertising for them.
I know that in Japan, companies have a lot more flexibility to ignore some uses of trademarked characters (fanzines, for instance) and prosecute others (out and out piracy). I would love to see that made possible here.
Jon
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
Actually, you're wrong about Linus. If a company offered a bunch of Microsoft domain names for sale, such as MicrosoftExpert.com, MicrosoftSupport.com, etc, MS would've been on them like white on rice. The same applies to any company. It's not unfair practice. The problem on the web is that many products share the same name space. If there was an .os or .comp TLD, you could make that argument. Unfortunately, when there are only three real name spaces and no enforcement on seperating them, your trademark needs to be enforced fairly but rigorously.
I can understand them wanting to protect the apple logo. I think I expect people to know better.
It's odd though how some companies get about web sites or computer media in general that use logo's. In perticular Spelling Entertainment, and Fox. Two entities that are well known for crushing fan sites into dust.
The funny thing is these are the same companies that would pay to have product placement in movies.
They think it's great to have their products associated with controverial movies, but lord forbid losing control and have you product assocaited with a fan site.
Good PR is good PR. Don't bite the hand that feeds you/buys your products/watches your show.
Am I the first one to consider doing your own theme or modifying an existing one? It wouldn't be too tricky or difficult to download the 'revised' themes after they've had the Apple logo removed and insert your own, if you think it's really that important to the whole look and feel. I understand why Apple is spanking people for using their logo. They're not too concerned about the look (IHHO) it's the fact that the Apple logo is in it which suggests branding i.e. that Apple made it and is endorsing it. Use your heads, themers.
The only one that does sound like an instrument is called "sosumi"
That's hilarious! I always wondered why it was called sosumi. "So Sue Me", it was a clever reference to their Apple Records lawsuit problems.
who is the humorless borg who marked this as "over rated" with an original score of 2-funny. The moderators are turning into karma nazis around here. "Zees ees foony. Zees est bad." People need to look at PROMOTING things not looking for the bad here on slashdot. If you don't like the trollers, then set your thresh higher. Work on spreading good karma, not promoting bad karma.
- ----
I really wish I had some mod points to give this guy. I liked his post, and I think that the other moderators think they are the fscking gestapo.
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Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
Didn't Apple lose a lawsuit about that? OK, I'm sure it's about a particular copyrighted logo this time, but it does kind of seem familiar.
Think different, but not too different...
> Some other points about MacOS interface that drive me mad:
> - When a message box comes with up with Yes and No buttons, you can't just press Y or N. You have to click.
> - You can't just enter to select a button on a message box which has the focus. Again, you have to click.
> - You can't move between the buttons a message box with the arrow keys. How un-intuitive.
Hear Hear.
Or why does the load dialog only list files it THINKS you should be able to load, instead of ALL files. Oh wait, the user is just an idiot, and doesn't need to do that. Sure, for the beginner, but these just frustrate any experienced user.
Of course, the real question is, WHY can't I as a user, turn these "FEATURES" off / on !?
Cheers
I usually don't take the time to reply to posts on /., however yours is so blatantly inaccurect that I can't stop myself from replying:
MacOS's interface largely uses that ugly 'Chicago' font (an insult to Chicago). I presume (or hope) that you can change this, but how many of MacOS's tech-savvy users (if there are any? ::grin::) are going to do this?
- It's been changed to charcoal since MacOS 8.5 which came out more then a year ago...
- As to whether or not it's a good thing that you be limited in your choice of font for the U.I., well isn't that a question of standardization? I mean, I know people that use large fonts of unknown origin on windows (fonts which I personnaly find very ugly). Sure, Windows will let them make that choice; however it won't properly resize the dialog boxes afterwards... Doesn't it make more sense to limit the user's choice to fonts for which you can guarantee uniformity of the U.I.?
When a message box comes with up with Yes and No buttons, you can't just press Y or N. You have to click.
-Nope, you can most usually click Command-y and Command-n or Esc for cancel. It's been there for a while. Of course if the program makes its own dialog box, the OS can't really do much.
You can't just enter to select a button on a message box which has the focus. Again, you have to click.
-With almost no exception, all dialog boxes always have one button in evidence (represented by a different larger button contour). Pressing the Enter key is the equivalent of activating that button. This has been in the system at least since the Mac Plus era...
You can't move between the buttons a message box with the arrow keys. How un-intuitive.
-I suppose that's more a design decision then anything else. Why would you want to move from button to button if you can activate then using the command-keys ? Redundancy, in my opinion, is mostly a very good way of losing beginner users...
The menus don't have access keys. This is a really annoying feature. Again, you have to click. Admittedly some menu items do have shortcut keys, but you can't access all the items this way, as you can with access keys.
-I'm not sure I see why this would be annoying. If the user is supposed to have and use a mouse, why would he need to be able to do everything by keyboard? Moreover, to do so you'd have to show which key activates which menu, isn't that more information to overload your user with? Finally, to assign a command to all menus and sub-menus always brings up problems; do you really feel that the keys associated with the menu activation or the sub-menu activation on windows are intuitive. In my opinion, the letters often (but not always) have no intuitive relation with the option I'm trying to activate.
-As I look at my netscape, on Linux, I realize that these menus also don't offer keyboard activation (at least if it's feasible, it's not written on the screen). But I know that Alt-F will activate the Find option and Alt-N will bring up a new window. I'm not sure if I need much more from the keyboard but what I am sure about is that I can live with an OS that feels I'll know how to use a mouse to reach the other options/commands.
-For what it's worth, Connectix has been offering what your looking for (all menus, all sub-menus by keyboard) as an option since Speed Doubler 2. Used to work pretty well on my PB190 for those rare times when I didn't want to use the trackpad (which I just didn't like).
Give me a Windows 95/98/2000/NT theme any day. I admit that macs are generally more user friendly (albeit at the expensive of processing power) but some of the points of the interface are just so terrible!
-Although I'm probably just being really picky, I don't believe that you can just make the claim that macs offer a more user friendly U.I at the expense of processing power; remember that Win98 is the OS that allows to have a web page as a background...
As for whether or not the interface is so terrible; I hope, given all the unfounded statements you made and which I tried by the preceding to correct, that you'll change your mind or at least take the time to go back and try a mac before restating anything on an open forum...
You're right. My link to the old WinAqua page is defunct, and a search can't find it. Wish Skinz had a news archive; I'd like to know what happened. I was fairly sure that Apple had laid off once the designer removed the logo.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
Think about it: what's the biggest gripe with the Unisys LZW patent? That they (1) published it without even saying it was patented, and (2) didn't bother enforcing patent licensing until it became ubiquitous. Now that GIF is a standard, they want their pound of flesh.
If Unisys had lost their patent for failing to enforce it, or had enforced it from the beginning, we would now have an image standard unemcumbered by an obnoxious patent.
The same thing applies to trademarks. If you let a trademark get so diluted that it's become part of the language, the law says you have no right to complain. And that's a Good Thing.
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Does anyone still have the tar.gz of the theme for e. I didn't even know it was out already. I was waiting for it. Thanks.
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
This guys Aqua theme is still avalible until friday. so if you despratly think that you need a copy go here ---> http://www.agccosprey.org/theme/
Lerp Height Does Matter!
Put up a version of the theme with something else in the apple logo place, and supply a ready-to-use script with the theme that takes in the Apple MacOSX screenshot on their site and cuts out the apple logo, and puts that in the theme instead. Andybody want to give it a try?
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
Visit
I'm not sure why people have to STOP using the trademarked symbol/logo? Isn't it okay if they just document the fact that the symbol/logo is trademarked by so-and-so corporation/individual?
Is it /really/ just the trademark they don't want used? It seems Apple is very aggressive in routing out anything that seems vaguely Apple-like. It seems they don't even want Aqua themes /without/ their logo, getting out. That is going too far. Sure, take the logo out, but don't attempt to say that people can't make replicas and themes mimicing your OS. That's just plain tyrannical.
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
It seems to me that fair use would cover the use in /., since in this case the Apple logo is used to refer to Apple itself. If I were to start making computers with the Apple logo on them, that would be a trademark violation.
It seems reasonable to me that themes should be able to imitate the look of the MacOS, but to use its logos would be falsely pretending to be the MacOS. But IANAL.
- Apple protects its trademark
- Authors of the 2 themes that were pulled turn around and release non-offending themes
- We're all happy again
I'll give this whole deal maybe a couple days to go thru fully. *shrug*--
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
In a similar vein, the appropriate response to this situation is to employ parody (a protected use under copyright law, anyone know about trademark law?) Replace all the Apple logos with something similar, but obviously parody: How about an apple with a worm coming out of it? Graphic artists, anyone?
Well I noticed at least one other theme at e.themes.org under OS that have the apple logo, if the issue is the logo why didn't apple wan't those removed? Also there still is a Aqua theme up here: http://e.themes.org/themes.phtml?themeid=948667910 Cheers
well .. no matter what the world say about Apple, it still remains as one of the pioneers. if you remember, Apple was violated once in an agreement which caused the other side remains as market holder .. so i suppose it is natural for Apple to be extra careful with their properties. .:: it's not the thing, it's how you use it ::.
.:: Mac, Linux, Window$, whatevah
You're still wrong, read Microsofts trademark, it explicity applies to thing such as domain names. The Linux trademark owned by Linus does NOT apply to such things, do your research!
Esperandi
Whoa; I had the exact opposite experience with my defective PowerBook 5300. That poor computer went to the repair shop 9 times in 19 months. I didn't pay for a single repair (good thing, because I was a starving grad student at the time); Apple paid for every one.
My 5300 finally up and died (I tried to wake it from sleep and it never woke up again) and when I called Apple to complain, they did the Right Thing. I can't talk about what they did (I signed a letter saying I wouldn't discuss it in public), but you clearly didn't persue your problem properly.
In my experience, Apple is a decent company. My computer died 7 MONTHS after the warranty ended, and they were still taking care of me. I just bought a new iMac DV (while I happen to love portable computers, you end up paying a $1000 premium for portability, and I decided it was no longer worth it. But I miss working and websurfing on the couch ;-), which will be a kick-ass *NIX workstation sometime this summer...they've got me as a customer for life.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Now if Apple was making some kind of "trade dress" argument about the color scheme, or a "look and feel" copyright argument, there'd be a real issue here. But that's not the case.
My theme does use the Apple logo. I've tried to keep the thing legal, giving just credits, but you know...
Also, my theme uses the "old" logo. Perhaps they don't care about that one any more?
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
As long as it is up to the END USER to pick the logo he wants. If it came preconfigured to fetch apples logo, you would still be violating their trademark.
See.. it doesn't matter where the image comes from, and the technical mechanism of display doesn't matter either; what matters is that the final work is a) not apples and b) uses apple's trademark.
Does anyone else find it funny how the slashdot story has a big apple logo right next to it.
-no broken link
Like I said in the first line, don't take it personally or the wrong way. I felt ashamed since the logo might have been giving people, gay or otherwise, the wrong impression.
Also.... why can't the author of said themes just.. oh... idunno... reverse the logo, or change the color, or alter it some other way so it RESEMBLES the original log? (Might be funnier, anyway... ;)
Sam"Criswell"Hart
The Officious Strenua Inertia Web Site
Apple doesn't need more trademark visibility. It's right up there with McDonalds and Coke.
Only because they stole the name from some FRUIT. Thats like saying my company has name recognition because its called "Sky" or "Dirt." -sorry, but that whole thing just cracks me up.
Coming soon to a theater near you:
STAR WARS: Episode II - The Mac Zealot Strikes Back. (c) 2000 Lucasfilm Ltd.
-I suppose that's more a design decision then anything else. Why would you want to move from button to button if you can activate then using the command-keys ? Redundancy, in my opinion, is mostly a very good way of losing beginner users...
I'm 98.6% certain that Mac Human Interface Guidelines say that redundancy is a Good Thing(tm). My copy is elsewhere, so I can't make that 100% certainty. But I recall redundancy being justified because if the user wants to do something, it's more likely that s/he will figure out one way of doing it.
-I'm not sure I see why this would be annoying. If the user is supposed to have and use a mouse, why would he need to be able to do everything by keyboard? Moreover, to do so you'd have to show which key activates which menu, isn't that more information to overload your user with?
The point for me is more that the menus can be navigated with the keyboard than that each individual menu item have a hotkey. I like linux and mac a lot better than windoze, but if there's one feature that I would bring to both systems, it's the ability to do everything that's text-based from the keyboard.
True, you don't need to use the keyboard for everything. However, when I'm in typing mode, it's a lot easier to use alt and the arrow keys than to move over to the trackball and try to navigate.
And yeah, there's third party stuff. I just wish it were safer for the system. That patching at startup thing isn't always the best solution.
My cent. (probably isn't worth 2.)
Big deal, it's understandable that Apple wants to protect their trademarks.
:)
Just slap a Kalista Apple on there instead
Erik
Am I the only person who sees this sort of thing happening... and immediately goes out and downloads the item in question?
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
AFAIK Linus does not have to make any statements of what he feels is "Fair Use".
Those laws are already in place, the fact that he has a trademark is enough to contend any usage he feels is not kosher.
-Erik-
Okay, time for trademark class... when you apply for a trademark you have to fill in a blakn called "goods and service" in which you specify which goods and services you wish this trademark to apply to. The Linux trademark owned by Linus Torvalds has 1 single entry in this (usually huge) section. That entry is for computer operating systems only. Microsoft, on the other hand, had to break their patent up into over a dozen separate pieces specifying each and every single good and service they might want the trademark to cover, from lunch boxes to T-shirts to posters to computer operating systems to domain names. So Microsoft shutting down www.microsoftsucks.com or something similar is well within their legal bounds as it falls under their trademark. Linus, on the other hand, enforcing his Linux trademark on such things is simply outside the law. There is a Linux trademark owned by some other guy for the express use as the name of a laundry detergent. Linus can do nothing about this because it doesn't conflict with his.
Do a search for the United States Patent and Trademarks Office and you can go straight there and search for "Linux" in trademarks. One of the bunch listed (there are a bunch that pop up like LinuxXpress and such, marketing logos of various companies) is owned by Linus. Page down to the goods and services part and see for yourself. Then search for Microsoft and witness the pages and pages and PAGES of stuff their trademark covers.
Esperandi
Please! I'm *BEGGING* YOU! Quit doing thises sleazoid headlines! Rob! Hemos! STOP IT!!
DON'T BE IDIOTS!
Your headline makes one belive that Apple has forced all themes that LOOK like it's own theme to be removed from themes.org.
In reality, apple lawyers wrote a letter to themes.org, pointing out that a couple of the 'aqua' themes they were hosting happened to be using apple's trademarked logo without permission, and that this was a violation of trademark law. *IT IS A VIOLATION OF TRADEMARK LAW*. No biggie. no lawsuits, no threat of fines, no nothing.. just a polite note pointing out a trademark violation.
Just replace the logo with something interesting and creative, and you're probably off the hook.
I think it's the same principle as when Apple complained that people were making Kaleidoscope schemes that looked like Apple's unreleased MacOS 8 themes, Hi-Tech and whatever.
I think Apple is right about trademark infringement in this case for the apple and the MacOS face (it's possible, though unlikely, that someone could attempt mis-represent the Qua theme on a Linux box as Mac OS X).
Someone else noted that they could go after a non-Apple-marked Aqua-alike theme, claiming dilution of the Aqua "look and feel", but they lost one of those suits already. (Also, why aren't they going after themes.org for their System 7 and Apple Platinum themes?)
So, replace the MacOS logo with Tux, and replace the Apple apple with the Gnome foot or the KDE gears as needed. Call them "Gno-qua" and "K-qua" or something.
Jay (=
Put the bite mark on the apple on the OTHER side and repost it. See, it's no longer the Apple trademark, is it? 8-) (I've heard that's how you tell some of the fake brand name clothes and lady's purses around - one particular brand, the crocodile faces the *OTHER* way. Not that I'd care, my Slashdot and Overclocked TShirts are good enough 8-) ) -=- SiKnight
But I've put up a theme for KDE2 at my web site for anyone with KDE2 to check out. Also, I've got screenshots of what my desktop looks like while running it (yeah, it's not perfect yet- so sue me. :)
Disclaimer; I've never liked Apple, but the more competion M$ sees the better...
...but really, they are just going to piss more ppl off by doing this. What harm does it do?.... Obviously the ppl using the theme with an Apple logo are doing so cause they like Apple?... now Apple tells them no!? As a BeOS user, if suddenly Be says I can't use any Be logos while I'm in winblows... that would piss me off
-- "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so.
If it were Microsoft doing this (and I don't doubt that they would) people would be all over them for it. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee -- pound for pound Apple is just as evil as Microsoft, maybe more so.
What? Sosumi appeared *before* the infamous PowerMac 7100 (iirc) did. For those not in the know, Apple codenames all of their projects - Lisa and Macintosh were originally code names that stuck. My (large) Apple Extended II Keyboard was named 'Nimitz' because it's roughly the size of an aircraft carrier.
The 1st generation Power Macs were named after hoaxes. Piltdown Man, Sagan, and Cold Fusion. Sagan (or his lawyers anyway) took offense at the use of his name and demanded that it be changed, despite the fact that it was for internal use only and was never ever going to be made public by Apple if the lawyers hadn't brought it up.
So they changed it. To BHA - Butt Head Astronomer.
;)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
What if I designed a car that looked just like the new Volkswagen Beetle, except that it didn't have a VW emblem on the body. I think Volkswagen would have a legitimate case that I had ripped off their design and was confusing potential Volkswagen customers.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Yes, except your _car_ is in direct competition with their car. A _theme_ or skin is not in direct competition with the Mac OS. In your example, what if you took some other car, and painted it up and made additions to it so it /looked/ like a VW, effectively "skinning" the car? Could VW sue you? I sure hope not. If you have model airplanes should airplane companies sue you?
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Linux was developed and became a Good Thing because during the mid-nineties, when the Hurd was too young to be viable, people invested in Linux. And we have a stable, fast OS. It was innovative; it made MS take a reality check, and gave Open Source some teeth. It's still a UNIX clone, but it's been heavily modified. When it started out, it didn't have any trademark issues. Now, we continue to innovate; we have GNOME and KDE bringing exciting advances in the GUI for end users (what seems like) daily. Both copied nice, GUIs like Windows, MacOS, etc, but moved beyond that. In my opinion, copying a brand new GUI from a company that's at least made a token gesture is (almost) like biting the hand that feeds. If I want Aqua, I'll buy OS X when it comes out. My 2 cents.