RedHat 6.2 - RSN

It seems that Redhat 6.2 will be out Real Soon Now - the mirrors (at least at metalab) are starting to get it. The main Redhat FTP doesn't have it yet - but it should be there in the next few hours... I think that the beta idea was a really good one (and I know lots of problems have been fixed since the beta was out - look at the rawhide directory in their FTP server). I hope other Linux distributions will follow RedHat with a public beta test before releasing a new version. (Thanks Udi for the info).

Comments

Any word on the Sparc release?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi --

Any word on the ETA of the Sparc release?

Linux on an UltraSparc beats the pants off of Slowlaris . . .

Re:features..?/Already in Mandrake since 6.1!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, can you stop your arrogant Mandrake bashing now?

Re:xfree86-4.0 isn't stable

[Anonymous Coward]

And maybe we'll get to see Apache 2.0? Maybe we'll add Apache JServ 1.1 (or 1.2 by then) and a decent Java Virtual Machine? I'd love to see all this stuff come out of the box! Oh - and don't forget all the goodies we can have when the RSA patent expires!

OOG Question

[Anonymous Coward]

What's up with this OOG_THE_CAVEMAN shtick? He's pretty cute, I'll admit, and kind-of has good points. Sort-of like a new-age MEEPT (or something). But I was more wondering as to his genesis -- was the concept imported to Slashdot from somewhere else (ie: is there some great OOG_THE_CAVEMAN cult out there somewhere that I don't know about) or is it totally specific to Slashdot?

Your servant,
-- GROG_THE_CAVEMAN

Re:xfree86-4.0 isn't stable

[Anonymous Coward]

And maybe we'll get to see Apache 2.0? Maybe we'll add Apache JServ 1.1 (or 1.2 by then) and a decent Java Virtual Machine? I'd love to see all this stuff come out of the box!

more I look at RH more I like Slackware

[Anonymous Coward]

Slackware rulez , not good for wimpy Graphical users just Simplicity Stability and reliability (don't give that BS about dependencies and RPM crap)

Re:more I look at RH more I like Slackware

[Anonymous Coward]

...you dont care about dependencies?
wow.. ill bet your system works really well, huh?

Does this include ftpd,httpd(apache),samba etc

[Anonymous Coward]

I use several different linux distros and the thing that bothers me most is that daemons are set up for me by default. I think that from a security stand point it is much better disable these services by default. Several of the machines where I work run RedHat distros and it still kills me to see apache and samba running on a machine that will never use them(not all sysadmins do a good job). Shouldn't these services be restricted to those that know how to administer them and also need them.

Re:Does this include ftpd,httpd(apache),samba etc

[C.Lee]

>it still kills me to see apache and samba running on a machine that
>will never use them(not all sysadmins do a good job). Shouldn't these
>services be restricted to those that know how to administer them and
>also need them.
That's what the custom install option RedHat offers is for you dim-witted Microsoft Astroturfer.....

Re:Does this include ftpd,httpd(apache),samba etc

[bero-rh]

That's exactly what we're doing in 6.2.

Alpha, Beta what does it really mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

To quote from slahdot itself "beta is only a state of mind"

Re:Alpha, Beta what does it really mean?

[galmeida]

- Alpha is (or at least, should be) a software test version not released to final users. It should be used only by the developers team.

- Beta is a test version released to final users, so they can use, find lots of bugs and feed back the developers. Beta versions are closer to final version than alpha versions.

- Final version: now the software is ready for public use.

blue balls

[Anonymous Coward]

i'll wait for my free be download on monday

Re:blue balls

[Anonymous Coward]

Be.com will be dead or dying within a couple minutes of posting:) Attack ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/beos :))

Re:blue balls

[Lonesmurf]

Actually, the Free BeOS ver 5 download is on Tuesday, March 28. I know that me and half the Geek World will be downloading the bastard OS. With my luck, we'll slashdot all the server and all the mirrors within a half an hour. Right about when I have 59 megs of the 60 meg download. ARGG!

if you guys like, you can see the future nesting site of the BeOS5 here.

There's nothing there yet.

Rami James
Pixel Pusher
Altec Lansing R&D, IL

--

The mother of all distro's SlackWare

[Anonymous Coward]

May I add a point to this discussion. SlackWare has a slackware-current-tree and thats the start of new release. Every one can download the packages and take a look at them. So no beta's, only real testing. Read the Changelog when you have some time and you will see that packages are updated during the making of new release. This means you can have a update on the new tree without making a new beta-release or whatever. BTW RedHat needs to get everything running right, because SlackWare is back and growing. Almost everyone I know who used RedHat, SuSE, Caldera, Corel (and even Debian!) are back with SlackWare, just because of simple installation, the security, and everything works. The CD-burners at my work are running overtime to produce the demand for CD's. Regards, a SlackWare user from the first hour and HP-UX admin.

Re:wow, sure enough

[Anonymous Coward]

ftp://download.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/ redhat/redhat-6.2/iso

Dammit, you're a lazy pussy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Cry some more for us why don't you?

Why not use IceWM 1.0.1-2 ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's fully Gnome compliant, very fast and configurable. No overhead of Lisp interpreter...

Muerte a Encumberment!

Re:Why not use IceWM 1.0.1-2 ?

[bero-rh]

We're including it in powertools.

Re:No ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

heh.. take another look!

Re:Another pointless release!

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes Xing et al immune from the "illegal" clause? Writing a contract and paying lots of money to the DVD Consortium.

Re:2.2.14

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't think 2.2.14 has Ultra ATA66 support in it. You still need to apply the patch.

Re:ssh as well?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, RSA only allowed use of their patent IF you used RSAref. So Red Hat's only option would be to use RSAref, which would still be a problem because RSA only allows non-commercial use without payment, so it couldn't be included with the downloadable distribution.

RH 6.1 lets script kiddies get root. Still broken!

[Anonymous Coward]

Red Hat 6.1 has Bind 8.2.1 (the nameserver), which has a buffer overrun bug that let's a script kiddie get root on your machine (named runs as root by default). The telltale sign of being cracked is an empty dir in /var/named called ADMROCKS.

And Red Hat doesn't fix anything in their CD images! So if you download RH6.1.iso, you get the bug. At the very least, they should add an /etc/motd to the install that warns you of the latest updates.

where are the isos for the powertools?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone point me to where the isos for the powertools are located and if none then why???

Re:Another pointless release!

[Anonymous Coward]

Appearantly you've never used up2date, the Red Hat Update utility. Or never cared enough to look out for it before trolling off.

And lot of other people download newer stuff from the net too. I for example always download newer relesases of Gnome programs. I'm fairly up to date with those. But that doesn't mean that I have the time, or patience, to monitor all software releases. That's what new distro releases are for, even if its just smaller, but important, updates in a point release (like 6.2) and not some bigger fancy stuff (like XFree86 4.0). But since you seem to be able to keep an eye on and download all new stuff, why don't you roll out your own distro?

To sum things up, everything in your post just seems like stupid Red Hat bashing from a person who has no clue at all about Red Hat.

Re:ISO there

[Anonymous Coward]

There doesn't seem to be MD5SUMS there yet. Here is what I got....can ppl verify.

b7cb386ec426ae38a925bdd844b86f84 zoot-i386.iso

Gotta start stabilizing somewhere

[Anonymous Coward]

A large distro isn't just a big pile of snapshots taken on a specific day. Red Hat has to get all the software working with the same glibc, the same window libraries, et cetera. They have to test it with a lot of hardware on a lot of configurations. The international versions have to work. They have to shake down the installer in a lot

From the time they snapshot all the packages to the time they have ISO images and CD's ready can be weeks or months. Yes, they can do some incremental updates during that time. But they can't drop in giant new packages that have a lot of gaps and deficiences and that come out at this late point in Red Hat's release cycle (XFree86, kernel 2.4.0).

Get libc6 version of Netscape--problem solved.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's about the size of it. get later Netscape package are compiled for your distro against libc6 instead of libc5--if your dist is libc6. Then there's no loader to go out of control. NEver have had problems with Netscape since on Redhat since then. Make sure your "Netscape" script removes the stale lockfiles in ~/.netscape , and that you have all base packages of X fonts, and you should be golden. Of course, netscape's Java still crashes... :-\

Why is Netscape unable/unwilling to ship working Java classes for Linux? I have applications that use the full Blackdown JRE and they're just great--Netscape's Java, or its handling of Java, since the same thing happens with Java Plugin 1.2.2 rc4, will eventually crash X and the whole system if left alone. Does anyone know why?

Re:Get libc6 version of Netscape--problem solved.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, got mine from ftp.iodynamics.com in the mirror directory and Netscape can use it. I haven't tried to make Mozilla use it, so i can't say. The installation script writes to ~./netscape to make the installation easy but doesn't attempt to install itself in .mozilla. I still have problems with java on Netscape >8[
I'll use it to view a financial applet, and it works just great and it will be stable for long time, then I'll alt-w that netscape window or surf onwards to another page and a few mmoments later the CPU is pegged to the bloody roof and I have to issue an extreme kill for Netscapes PID...
Since this has happened with all versions of Communicator for Linux that I have ever used, whether or not all X fonts are installed, and it happens still with the new java plug-in, but has never happened with the full JRE, I believe that Netscape is the reason. I am not a programmer so that's a wild ass guess. It just doesn't seem to put the JVM away properly and eventually it goes ballistic. If I turn off Java, Netscape is very well behaved--I can use it literally 12 hours a day without a crash.

Re:Get libc6 version of Netscape--problem solved.

[Steve Bergman]

My guess is that it is related to the fact that the netscape code base is a house of cards built upon Netscape 1.0 and never really rewritten. This is why the Mozilla project finally gave up on the whole thing and started mostly from scratch.

But tell me, is Java Plugin 1.2.2 rc4 usable with Mozilla/Linux? I have been waiting for this for some time and thought that it would be a long time before it was even close to ready. Did I just miss reading about it?

-Steve

Looks like metalab noticed

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's rude to download from mirrors when they aren't ready yet. There's no "coverup". Chill out. You'll get lots of free beer soon enough.

Re:follow redhats public beta testing??

[Anonymous Coward]

shouldnt you be actually working instead of reading slashdot, or is that what redsoft pays you to do?

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been running Debian 2.2 for about 6-7 months now and it's been as stable as you can get. With debian, even their unstable tree is "stable"

But what does the default have.

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn near everything running. And you shouldn't trust the default init scripts by any means. Given most linux distros and most unix distros do this by default but it is not a good idea for a user that doesn't know the difference between /etc/ and /tmp. These are the very users that will use a default install and may be running an ftp server and not know it.

Re:MetaLab Red Hat mirror - embargoed

[Anonymous Coward]

Cuz I mean after all, you're just Red Hat's bitches right? You do them a fucking huge favor and distribute their software on YOUR dime, on YOUR machines and then, you take fucking order like this?

I work for Red Hat. I'm a programmer. I'm Mr. Hat as far as you ppl are concened.

NOW I COMMAND YOU TO STREAM LIVE VIDEO OF PEOPLE COOKING HOT GRITS. DO AS I SAY OR I WILL EMBARGO THE ENTIRE HTTP PROTOCOL. JUST REALEASE THE DAMN SOFTWARE. WHAT'S RED HAT GOING TO DO?

"how dare you sunsite! no longer will we allow you to serve up 600 meg images for download. Take that! We are not going to use any of your free service any more! We're red hat! We're rulers of the mirror universe!

Thank you

Really cool long uptimes and all that but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... does anyone realize how fucking AWESOMELY SLOW linux is to boot? I suppose this is just not an issue for anyone since they just leave their computer running *all the time* (unless you're running a server this is an awful waste and is an example of a weak area in Linux). Geez even Windows 95/98 boots faster.

Maybe with ext3fs and an end to 20 minute fscks (yes 20 minutes I have 4 disks 20 gig 10gig 6 gig and 4.5 gig) things will improve but the main problem is the silly init sequence. If I'm using Linux as a workstation I'd like my system to be up and running and usable *before* 2 minutes hav passed. Instead I have to wait the web server, log server and every other kind of friggin' server (yes I do find a web server useful on my workstation) to launch.

In the time it takes Linux to launch **without running fsck** I can boot BeOS pull the plug on the wall or push the off button and reboot cleanly (no fsck) **** 8 times ****. BeOS boots here in 20 seconds tops - 20 seconds till I can start typing that is. And that includes launching the Be web server of my choice.

Granted Be can launch stuff faster because of it's threadedness but even for an old fashioned type OS Linux init and loading still severely sucks. Whip dee doo if Linux runs for a month straight - it's sometimes useful to be able to turn your computer on and off easily.

Personally I leave my Linux and BSD boxen running all the time because it's such a friggin' hassle to reboot them.

Re:Really cool long uptimes and all that but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

well you could really get to a prompt in a few seconds if you reall wanted to. The point where the kernel fires up init is only a few seconds. OF course launching 30 or so other programs and checcks that are common on most systems can take a while. The problem with init is the fact that you can't just fire start some programs in the background. E.g. init waits for the proccess to eiteh rsuccesfully start or fail becuase other following programs may need that one to succeed. There should be a way to distinguish programs that are prereqs for others, from those that are solo.

Re:Really cool long uptimes and all that but ...

[C.Lee]

>... does anyone realize how fucking AWESOMELY SLOW linux is to boot? I
>suppose this is just not an issue for anyone since they just leave
>their computer running *all the time* (unless you're running a server
>Geez even Windows 95/98 boots faster.

Not really. Unlike Windows which does nothing but put up an ad for Microshit when it boots up, linux actually informs you what's going on with your system as it boots up. It's great for troubleshooting the system after making changes, unlike Microshit products which leaves you wondering what you did wrong if you screw something up. Next time pay attention to the text on the screen as linux boots up next time, you silly Astrotufer.....

Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[Anonymous Coward]

I have found that ld-linux.so is actualy something with the way netscape is run. I removed the netscape launching script and ld-linux.so memory usage went away. XFree 3.3.5 also has a huge memory leak. Upgrade to 3.3.6 or 4.0... Redhat reported the bug but called it a "WONTFIX" because they said it was a design flaw in X... my ASS!

MODERATE THIS UP

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny stuff.

Re:Sincere Thanks to Bero-rh

[Anonymous Coward]

#1 - "On behalf of Slashdot..."? I don't recall voting for you in the last election. Why are you speaking for me?

#2 - I know of more than one person from more than one Linux company who post here daily. Most don't post under their work email accounts for obvious reasons. Some do, though. The bottom line is Red Hat isn't doing anything the other Linux companies don't do. You just don't realize they're doing it.

#3 - Brown nosing is not something to be proud of, nor does it garner respect.

The Linux community does more to support Linux than Red Hat could ever do. If you want to point praise at the correct recipients, do it toward Linux users. They aren't working for stock options; they do what they do because they like it, and with only a few exceptions (Propaganda boy, are you listening??) they don't ask for anything in return. And I can guarantee you they account for more than 26 posts in this discussion.

(I'm sure "bero" is a fine worker, and I'm sure he is interested in his company's products regardless of his paycheck. I'm just trying to make a point.)

Re:GDB in RedHat

[Anonymous Coward]

I nearly had to bail on developing code on RH6.1 because the shipped GDB wouldn't display the C++ "complex" types (which of course constitute %80 of my code). I upgraded to the GDB snapshot in rawhide which works a little better - it now will display "complex" for some arbitrary amount of time and then stop until I kill it and start another one. Pretty annoying. A much earlier version of GDB on our Solaris boxes works fine.

Hardware?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux boots to console in about 10 seconds here on my p2-450 and to xdm in about 20. Are you sure you're not having dome weird hardware problem or have many uneeded daemons running. Granted, ig I shut down incorrectly fscking is a few minutes.... so.... always logout/shutdown correctly. simple fix :P

It's 5:AM already?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bummer

AC you know who!

Re:Red Hat Beta--E16 missing imlib 1.98

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked 6.2 did now include the latest version of E 16 or imlib 1.98 does anyone know why?

Re:Actually we do release ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh... it's just so complicated compared to the simplicity of Slack or *BSD. And no it's not just the SysV init scripts.

Let me try 6.2 and get some more specifics (if I still don't like it).

There is still no sig hereFNORDFNORD

Re:Sincere Thanks to Bero-rh

[Anonymous Coward]

RH is probably the most pro Open Source distribution (along with Debian). Take the example of KDE vs. Gnome. Other distributions just took the easy way and introduced a proprietary toolkit (Qt) into their distributions.

RH hired ppl to help developing Gnome, a real Open Source GUI.

Anyway, I really don't know why I'm answering you because you obviuosly don't know what you are talking about.

Re:features..?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Roxen WebServer?
>debian and suse have it.

Yeah!!!
Roxen is the best web server I have used.

Aj - posting anonymously from a friends system

xfree 4.0

[Anonymous Coward]

dammit, i want xfree 4.0 rpms

Re:xfree 4.0

[gorwell]

Don't worry: working XFree4.0 are alrady in Mandrake-Cooker and most of them work very well. So wait for the next Mandrake! (when?)

Re:xfree 4.0

[bero-rh]

XFree86 4.0 is not ready for prime time.
If you want RPMs nevertheless, get them
here.

Bend over Oog lover..ya want some too??

[Anonymous Coward]

I got enough juice for y'all!!

Re:I found a mirror with full dist and ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

The letters are scrambled by adding 13 to the ascii value of each, and if the resulting integer is greater than the ascii value of z, it is subtracted from the ascii value of z and added to the ascii value of a -1.

The url is: ftp://download.sourceforge.net/mounts/u4/mirrors/r edhat/redhat/redhat-6.2/iso/
(Thats not the exact decrypted url, i took it from the sites pwd)

The perl unscrambler

my $crypt="sgc://qbjaybnq.fbheprsbetr.arg/cho/zveebef /erqung/erqung/erqung-6.2/vfb/";
for ($x=0;$x; lessthan length($crypt);$x++) {

my $c = substr($crypt,$x,1);
my $i = ord($c) + 13;
if ( $i > ord "z" ) {
$i = ord("a") + ($i-ord("z")) -1 ;
}
print sprintf("%c",$i);

}
print "\n";

Re:XFree86 4.0

[Anonymous Coward]

but i'm extremely disappointed that you didn't include enlightenment 0.16.4 ... rh 6.2 uses enlightenment 0.15.x, right?

SuSE uses betas since linus was born

[Anonymous Coward]

Along all shows like CeBIT and others, you can get a beta from the current SuSE distro for free. What's the point in the story?

Re:SuSE uses betas since linus was born

[Anonymous Coward]

"What's the point in the story?"

Umm it's slashdot, remember ?
You're too smart for the average iq here, go away :)

Re:SuSE uses betas since linus was born

[C.Lee]

>by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 26, @06:43AM EST (#67)
>Along all shows like CeBIT and others, you can get a beta from the
>current SuSE distro for free. What's the point in the story?

The point is that the vast,vast majority of people *NEVER* attend shows like CeBIT and others for a huge number of reasons.

Mirror with ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a look at ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/linux/redhat/redhat-6.2be ta/iso/ ( AKA ftp.cdrom.com ) ls-lR 371 bytes Tue Feb 8 14:23:00 2000 ls-lR.gz 181 bytes Tue Feb 8 14:23:00 2000 md5sums 203 bytes Tue Feb 8 14:17:00 2000 piglet-SRPMS.iso 575866 Kb Sat Feb 5 21:13:00 2000 piglet-alpha.iso 645284 Kb Sat Feb 5 18:40:00 2000 piglet-i386.iso 596796 Kb Sat Feb 5 21:09:00 2000 piglet-sparc.iso 573346 Kb Mon Feb 7 20:51:00 2000 Where are they comming up with the name of the distros ? Piglet ??? Cartman ?? What happen to names like herican ? ( excuase the spelling )

Re:Mirror with ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the names of all of Red Hat's releases are based on the last. How they got Zoot from Piglet, however, is something I've been wondering for a while now...

Re:Mirror with ISO image

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't both Zoot and Piglet names of the residents of the castle Anthrax in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?

Re:Mirror with ISO image

[HeUnique]

Actully - if you look at the ls-LR in the metalab ISO dir in the Redhat dir - you'll find that Redhat 6.2 code name is ... zoot! I'm serious!

-rw------- 1 root root 674054144 Mar 13 14:19 zoot-alpha.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 608845824 Mar 9 19:20 zoot-doc.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 671881216 Mar 9 13:39 zoot-i386.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 627785728 Mar 9 13:42 zoot-sparc.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 594044928 Mar 9 13:41 zoot-srpms.iso

Re:Mirror with ISO image

[bero-rh]

piglet is the beta. You don't want to get that.

follow redhats public beta testing??

[Anonymous Coward]

You have always been able to follow the development of dists like debian and slackware,
current and woody...maybe some other dists to, but it's not the other dists who should follow redhat, it's redhat who should follow the other dists.

bahh, anonymous coward, does it take ages to get the password? :)

/fldc

Re:follow redhats public beta testing??

[bero-rh]

It's Sunday and it's 10:30 pm - I may be fanatic (yes, yes, I even admit I have a "vi admin.cc" task running on another tty), but not even I work 24 hours a day, 7 hours a week.

Re:follow redhats public beta testing??

[bero-rh]

Actually we're releasing both betas (6.2-beta) and the development tree (rawhide), so unless I'm missing something, there's no need to follow anyone on this.

Re:I386 ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell is an ISO already?

Re:No ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, FreeBSD has downloadable ISO's :)

Python errors

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried to upgrade my RH6.0 to RH6.2-beta via ftp today, but the install stops in the middle of the install with python errors. Complains something about the packages. Also, when I try to start applications by clicking the icons in the KDE panel a console is launched too. How do I stop this?
Half of the beta is now in my hard disk - cool :(
Thanks for the new feature that you don't need to write the ftp-server name and path again if you got it wrong. Email me at wall@artic.net

Re:Python errors

[bero-rh]

Both of these bugs are specific to the beta and can be fixed by updating to the release (or at least some packages from the release).
The KDE problem is caused by an incomplete patch in the kdebase RPM, so you'll want to update that one.

Re:features..?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Grub be in the powertools any time soon ? I must say I had lots of problems with lilo that vanished as soon as I tried the mdk Grub rpm (plus it is prettier too). Anyway I used to get most of my addons in the powertools. Now more and more often I find them in mdk cooker. One just has to go on rpmfind to see where the activity is these days. Not that I do not like an ironed-out distrib, but sometimes an early rpm is better than writing the spec yourself.I'd like to find a bleeding edge RH distro alongside rawhide. Has RH any intention to match MDK's activity now that 6.2 is out ?

Re:features..?

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenLinux eDesktop uses grub, and it isn't even in a separate CD. It's the default boot loader.

Sounds like OpenLinux has lots of the other features that "bero" mentioned, too. Ditto for Mandrake; what RH is calling new features are old new to Mandrake.

I'm not looking to start a distro war, but I have to question why RH gets such loud announcements here while other distros get whispers? It doesn't sound like there's honestly all that much in RH 6.2 to cheer over. This sounds like a "catch up" release to me...

Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[Anonymous Coward]

My Z's got the 320MB of ram and 14GB drive options... nyah nyah.

Re:RedHat folks: Security Issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

Around here, Linux has gotten a really bad reputation for security, becuase RH6 had a fair number of holes and admins didn't bother to plug them.

Why the hell do problems with Red Hat give Linux a bad rep? "Red Hat" is not a synonym for "Linux".

Re:xfree86-4.0 isn't stable

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I just installed it on my RH6.1 system and other than a silly botch-up by me (uninstalled the previous XFree rpm's, instead of installing over them) it works just fine. No crashes, the configuration file is simpler and more straightforward than the old one.

What kind of problems are you having?

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[gorwell]

Yes sure! RedHat has started releasing beta just after Mandrake-Linux has decided to do so... Exactly the same for ISO9660 images of the distribution... There are other example which show that RedHat takes many many ideas from Mandrake - that's really funny: Goliath-Arrogant-RedHat with $$$ can't have as many ideas as the little David-Innovative-Mandrake with no money (well... not sure of that: does someone know if they have money and/or if they plan an IPO???)

Re:features..?/Already in Mandrake since 6.1!

[gorwell]

That's really really funny: most of those features have been in Mandrake since... 6.1!!! And I don't speak about Mandrake 7.0 which is a real killer...

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[gorwell]

That's funny from you to hear that since you have been catched by RedHat after having worked for Mandrake (do they pay more at RH?)(and introduced many bugs with your PGCC kernel optimizations). RedHat is arrogant because it considers itself as the only Linux distribution. However, don't forget that RedHat, as well as any other Linux distributions, is 99% made from the community work, so saying that Mandrake is taking ideas from RH is a good joke.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[gorwell]

>Red Hat does NOT consider itself as the only
> Linux distribution.

No... they just _act_ as if they are!

Re:where is the announcement

[OOGs_apostles]

what im curious about is how HeUnique happened upon it... bad permissions or no...

and, for that matter, how it got posted here so fast... /. has been listing articles a bit late recently.

Re:ssh as well?

[Micah]

It expires in 6 months minus 6 days. RedHat's releases are usually a bit under 6 months apart. So it should be REEEEAAAAAL close, too close to say at this point.

But I would *hope* they'd push it back a week or two to include more crypto stuff. It will be very convenient to have it installed by default.

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[BrianS]

Try either one of the two pages for unofficial updates to slink.

http://www.internatif.org/ bortzmeyer/debian/apt-sources

http://www.debian.org/~vincent

did raster piss you off that bad ?

[mAIsE]

that sounds like a really lame excuse for not includeing a current version of E!!, I have been using E for a long time and 16.x compiles and runs in my opinion better than 15.x. This seems purely political. I cant completely appreciate that you can include beta QT but not current E.

Re:did raster piss you off that bad ?

[miguel]

Well, I am personally glad to see that Red Hat did not ship E0.16, as it did remove GNOME support by default, and this is not inmediately obvious.

This means that users that install 0.16 with GNOME by default wont get a working GNOME setup. And there is no easy way to fix (At least, I could not figure it out).

Best wishes,

Miguel.

Re:did raster piss you off that bad ?

[Steve Bergman]

Way back when, as Gnome plans began to take shape, I heard that Gnome would be window manager independent. My first thought was "Uh Oh, this is going to be a BIG mistake". An interface intended for clueless newbies (no offense, anyone ;-) must above all be seemless and have an integrated feel. Anything less is hell on the learning curve. After a couple of years I am very glad to hear that Gnome is getting an honest to god *standard* window manager. Hopefully everything will soon be configurable in one place rather that having GTK+ themes running parallel to E themes. I have nothing against E, but it is evolving into a desktop environment of its own. This is not really in line with what Gnome's standard window manager needs to be. (BTW, I'm happy that E is going the way it is and I am happy that one can still use any WM they want with Gonme.) The relative lack of integration (E never did recognize the panel when setting window sizes, for example) is the main reason that I never present Gnome to my newbie friends. I'm excited about the switch to something else.

Re:did raster piss you off that bad ?

[Mandrake]

actually it didn't remove GNOME support by default. it's just using all the buttons on the root window. you can easily change this by reading the INSTALL doc, or looking in the FAQ. I actually included a keybindings.gmc.cfg that turns the mousebutton behaviour back to the 0.15 style specifically for this reason.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)

Re:did raster piss you off that bad ?

[bero-rh]

It's not a lame excuse. I'm a developer, not a marketeer. The general idea is to include the version that makes most sense.

In our default setup, enlightenment is used only when GNOME is running. e 16 does not have many new features that make sense in that environment, but it is a lot bigger, so it makes this environment slower on low-memory machines.

Including the Qt beta makes sense because almost nothing uses Qt 2.0, but some interesting stuff uses Qt 2.1 (which is compatible with everything 2.0 did).

If this were for political reasons, 'rm -f enlightenment*; sed -e "s,enlightenment,sawmill,g" $CONFIG_FILES' would be a much more consistent decision (so that would be what we would have done).

Re:i don't think so

[mAIsE]

If sawmill is the new default desktop then there is no reason other than politics not to include E 16. Mandrake, Storm2k, Slackware and a few others dont seem to be having any trouble with it. Raster left and they are being childish about it. When every other major disto is using the current version of E the only conclusion i could make is that it is political, and a pain in my ass because i like to use E16 and RH.

Re:No ISO

[mAIsE]

funny there isnt the demand for FreeBSD that there is for RH.

ssh as well?

[DrSpoo]

I noticed you guys put in the crypto stuff, which is *fantastic*! Any chance you got ssh 1.27.7 (or OpenSSH) in there as well? Sure, it extremely easy to download, but it would be handy for newbies who are just starting out and want to be safe.

Re:ssh as well?

[Gerdts]

Any thoughts about building and distributing --with-rsaref versions of ssh and openssl so that the .edu's can legally make use of these packages?

Re:ssh as well?

[kijin]

Does it still break the RSA patent if you ship the package without using the RSAREF?

Re:ssh as well?

[wowbagger]

Will the RSA patent expire in time for SSH to make it into 7.0?

Re:ssh as well?

[bero-rh]

"Thanks" to the RSA patent, we can't ship SSH or OpenSSL (which is required by OpenSSH).
We are building RPMs for it at Red Hat Germany (where there is no RSA patent) though; they can be downloaded at
ftp://ftp.redhat.de/pub/rh-addons/s ecurity/6.2.

We will include them as soon as the RSA patent expires (later this year).

d-w-------

[DrSpoo]

Great, I was 420MB into my RedHat 6.2 download...and then metalab.unc.edu decided to kick everyone off and do this ...

d-w------- 7 root bin 512 Mar 26 02:13 redhat-6.2/

Arg! Whats going on here, why is there a big coverup? Its rude to nuke sessions that have already been started like mine was. It looked to me like a full mirror was already done, there were no missing files at 8:00am when I started AFAIK.

Well, thank God ncftp supports RESUME ;)

Re:Explanations...(Some packages are really outdat

[C.Lee]

> SVGALIB
> Deprecated because it causes a lot of problems on some systems (try
>switching terminals from X to SVGALIB and vice versa on a Matrox G200
>card, for example).

That's no real reason to deprecate it through. Just don't have the installer install it as a default library. Don't remove it from the main cdrom though. It doesn't take up that much space, and it's still widely used.

Re:Explanations...(Some packages are really outdat

[C.Lee]

>Deprecated doesn't mean removed; it's just a recommendation not to use
>it anymore and a warning that it might disappear or be replaced in a
>future version.

Ok. Was wondering if RedHat would consider releasing the text-based shell/interface for configuring lilo used in the 6.1 install as a stand-alone package. It would make configuring lilo for multi-boot systems a bit easier once you've installed things.

Re:whoah

[pabs]

Skipping to the assertion (why doesn't /. have a spell checker ;-) that VM totally obviates the need to be concerned about memory allocation, you *know* that there is always a price to be paid for excessive memory allocation.

Hrm, I should have clarified things a bit. You can disable both the icon box and the pager if you don't want 'em, which leaves only the code. In other words, a few kilobytes at best.

Either way, I do think that Sawmill is a more appropriate WM for the GNOME project; the goals of the two are more compatible.

Oh yeah, and I should also mention that my previous post came on really hard. I didn't mean to come across as a complete asshole, I was just trying to point out which features were duplicated, why they were duplicated, and why I (personally) like the E implementations better. Fortunately noone read my post, so I guess it's alright. :)

--
odds of being killed by lighning and

Been There ... Done That ...

[Daeron]

Releasing a public Beta before the actual Release isn't actually what one would call an "Innovation" FreeBSD has been doing that for quite a while already with the 3.x-RC's and up to 4.0-RC3 before 4.0 went RELEASE.

Other distros *do* produce betas

[c0mawhite]

> I hope other Linux distributions will follow RedHat with a public beta test before releasing a new version.

Err... don't other distros actually produce betas then? Mandrake have done betas... and Mandrake-cooker. Slackware-current? And you can pull the development tree of Debian also.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[c0mawhite]

This wasn't my point. My point was that other distros produce betas. I wasn't pushing Mandrake above any other distro.

You should stop and try to see the point in what was being said.

I just think it's unfair to say that "other distros should produce betas", when they already do.

Re:Explanations...G200 and SVGALIB works for me

[Scott McGuire]

I just switched between reading this message in netscape under X and SVGALIB quake2 a few times. I have a G200 and it seems to work fine. What is supposed to go wrong?

Re:GDB in RedHat (threads)

[Utter]

Actually, I've been told that the GDB version from RedHat have a special patch for gdb that makes threads work on x86. I remember that I once dissected the gdb source rpm and tried to apply the threads patch. Unfortunately, I couldn't apply the patch. Other people, on the Debian mailing list said that threads should work if I changed from using the normal libc6 to the debug version of libc6. Well it didn't work either and consumed another 8M of precious RAM.

GDB in RedHat

[Utter]

How well does GDB work in RedHat 6.2? The problems with the gdb included in Debian Potato is:
1. It doesn't work with threads.
2. Starting an application with many debugged shared libraries is awfully slow.
3. Stepping into function-calls in shared libraries with C++ doesn't always work.
4. gdb can't remember breakpoints in shared libraries between runs.

All in all I find gdb pretty unusable. I know that several people disagree with me but I tried several advice to get it working better. gdbinit tweaking, changing to a libc6-debug version and gdb patches. But nothing has worked to fully satisfactory so far.

Re:features..?

[mysty]

ISDN support:
How well does it work now?
With SuSE+YaST, setting up isdn, so that any normal user can start/stop/dial it is a piece of cake. With RedHat 6.1, it was just a kludgy script clearly added as an afterthought.
Good ISDN support is almost a reason for me to go back to SuSE. Except that I hate their idea of a single giant config file, with their SuSEConfig scripts sourcing that.
That is just a bad design; a config system should not get confused if you edit the files in /etc by hand, and on the other hand, a config system should not be designed that you cannot use the hand-edit method anymore. It should also tell you which files it is going to edit and why, and which daemons it is going to start/stop and why. Linuxconf comes close to that idea, but is so buggy for me to be almost completely useless; COAS, the Caldera system, is nice but can do only very few things. YaST from SuSE does it quite well; until you configure something by hand: then it is goodbye YaST forever for that function. Debian and Slackware don't have such systems...maybe just as well, because nobody seems to have got it right anyway.

So the only distro with a decent config system for ISDN is SuSE, of which I hate the design, but love the functionality.

------------------------------------------------ --------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...

Re:ld-linux.so and netscape

[Steve Bergman]

Me too. This is probably *THE SINGLE MOST* irritating feature of several current distributions. Its a real embarrassment, especially after one has gone on and on to friends about the stability of Linux. It will be great to finally toss out that kruft congested old code base in favor of Mozilla/Netscape 5.0. :-) Mandrake 7.0 seems pretty stable and RedHat 6.1 updated to NS 4.72 seems more stable that earlier releases.

Re:whoah

[Steve Bergman]

I must say I have never really found a use for that icon box. Taskbars and the like suit my taste perfectly. In the interest of full disclosure, I did use Windows95 as my primary home OS for about a year around 1996 ;-).

I do like the flexibility of E and the fact that it can be quite efficicient when you want it to be, but that pager is the biggest CPU hog ever. Its pretty, but I don't see enough functionality to justify the resources it demands, even on a reasonably fast machine.

Skipping to the assertion (why doesn't /. have a spell checker ;-) that VM totally obviates the need to be concerned about memory allocation, you *know* that there is always a price to be paid for excessive memory allocation. In the best case it never gets allocated (lazy allocation). In the more common case, it gets allocated but paged out which gives a temporary performance hit. In the next worse case, it periodically gets used and must be repeatedly paged in and out. VM is very useful but not a panacea. I agree with Bero.

BTW, Bero, I thought you were at Mandrake. Now your at RedHat. Well, wherever you are, best of luck and enjoy what you are doing. :-)

-Steve

Another pointless release!

[Ex Machina]

What does this really offer over RedHat 6.1? Updated libraries and applications. Whoop-de-do! I can get them for free off the web. At least Mandrake has MandrakeUpdate to fetch updates. Debian has that really cool apt-get thing. Slackware has the tarball patches.
RedHat and other Linux vendors have to relaize to sell "upgrades" to the hardcore Linux people they have to offer more libraries I've probably already updated. Only closed-source companies like Microsoft can use charging ~$90 to update the bugs in their libraries (Windows 98SE).
Perhaps if the included a easy update XFree86 4.0, a RedHatUpdate program and a Linux DVD player I'd consider getting it.

Re:Another pointless release!

[PhaseBurn]

The question was "when you guys can't?" was kinda retorical, in a way, if you get my drift... just saying, maybe it wouldn't hurt to get legal like and actually just bite the bullet on this one unless there is a LEGAL way around it... I think the DVD jerks may have this one won... it's their technology, their patent... they, likewise, can control who uses it... and well, if people have to pay to use it, that's their right to say... we may not agree with it, but it's their call... just my 2 cents

Re:Another pointless release!

[PhaseBurn]

You can't ship a DVD player as long as DeCSS is illegal? Why, may I ask? What makes Xing Technologies and all the others immune from the "illegal clause" to ship their products, when you guys can't? Doesn't sound like fair competition to me, and it sounds like it's actually a government-regulated/contolled monopoly here... Damn DMCA.... grrrrrrr...

Re:Another pointless release!

[Yodalf]

YES you can... What prevents RedHat from going through the legal licensing processes with DVD consortium, MPEG group, Dolby, etc etc and then sell a legal, licensed Linux DVD player LIBRARY (closed source) which could be used in any open-source front-end player? Or, worst case, simply sell a complete player. I expect no profit would be made on this licensing fee so most people would probably agree to pay 1$ to get their player.

Re:Another pointless release!

[Iluvatar]

What about the "Update Agent" in RedHat 6.1?

Re:Another pointless release!

[Benley]

For that matter, what prevents _anybody_ from doing this? It seems to me that a good 'get-rich-quick' scheme right now would be to get a license to do this, make the DVD library legally, and then sell it - for all sorts of platforms of course - cheap! Of course, it would be much better if a company like Redhat did this and distributed it for free in order to increase acceptance of Linux in general, but I have no idea if that will ever happen.

Re:Another pointless release!

[Ex Machina]

Perhaps my post was misinterpreted. I was trying to raise some legitimate questions about RH6.2. I can't justify spending ~$40 to go from 6.1 to 6.2. Perhaps some added functionality should be added before charging all that dough-ray-me to a ser who already bought 6.1. RedHat: if you include a licensed DVD player-- even a closed source one -- you will own my next laptop installation! For a "Commercial Product" I expect more than repackaged GNU software. The speedy updates are nice.... but remember they're not included in the "Free" version. (I'm incoherent cause its ~3am...)

Re:Another pointless release!

[the eric conspiracy]

Whoop-de-do! I can get them for free off the web.

And you can't get RedHsat 6.2 Free off the web?

Re:Another pointless release!

[bero-rh]

Did you actually see 6.1 or 6.2?
We have up2date, which does pretty much the same as MandrakeUpdate.
And you can always download the full 6.2 (as well as individual packages from it) from our ftp server or one of the mirrors.
The Updates we're selling are primarily for people who either need support (every Red Hat Linux package includes support) and for people who can't download (In some countries, downloading 640 MB is way more expensive than buying a Red Hat Linux package. In some countries, net access is not very common.)

As I've pointed out before, XFree86 4.0 is not even near ready for being in a main release (SuSE 6.4 [to be released soon] still uses 3.3.6, as well); a RedHatUpdate program is included (and has been updated to fix most of the problems the version included in 6.1 had), and we can't ship a DVD player while DeCSS is illegal.

Also look at autorpm

[Jess]

An update tool that I have been using for a long time is autorpm. It works very well and you do not have to pay for RedHat's up2date service.

Alternatively, if you have a fast internet connection, just download all of the updates and do a "rpm -f *.rpm".

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[pilot]

Debian provides stable and unstable.

stable -> extremely stable. As stable as VA servers

unstable -> bleeding edge packages

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[Gerund]

Uh...They do make updates to the stable release every once in a while. Not sure how far reaching the updates get, though. The last one mostly dealt with security stuff, plus some y2k stuff. I don't know if they update things like gnome. 'course you could just grab the latest gnome debs off the unstable tree if you were that desperate for them.

Re:Red Hat Linux 6.2 Release notes

[SeanNi]

As a 5.2 user with everything upgraded to the point where it's almost (almost!) a 6.2 anyway, I'm wondering what you did about Glibc?

I've pretty much hit the upgrade ceiling with a number of apps (WiNE, Sawmill, GNOME, Mozilla, etc) because I'm still running Glibc 2.0, and they require 2.1. That's the main reason I'm considering going for the RHat 6.2 upgrade.

I tried upgrading my Glibc myself, but only managed to just about hose my system (only managed to salvage it by removing my HD, and mounting it in a friend's system who copied his Glibc 2.0 libs back over).

SO... how did you overcome that hurdle? Or did you? I dunno... maybe you don't upgrade as much as me. I guess what I'm really looking for is a Glibc-upgrade-HOWTO. Anyone out there that can help me? Or do I just bite the bullet and upgrade to 6.2?

Anyway... I think I've been rambling here enough, so I'll shut up now :-)

--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean

Re:Red Hat Linux 6.2 Release notes

[SeanNi]

Hmm... maybe I should try building from source.

I tried using RPM to do it. It got about half-way through the upgrade, and it aborted, spitting me back out on the command line, and of course, nothing worked. Not a single executable gave me anything but a string of error messages. So I ended up taking it down "the hard way" and mounting my HD on a friend's computer, as mentioned.

And ever since then, I've had cold feet. But I guess the extra flexibility of building from source would help.

But anyway... you mentioned that I should build in a separate directory. Then what? Once I'm sure it built correctly. Should I copy over the existing one? Should I point my system at the new ones? And how exactly do I do that?

Like I said above, I guess I'm actually looking for a HOWTO.

--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean

List of mirrors

[CAB]

Well, how about listing open mirrors under this post as we use to.

Please list open mirrors only.

It seems that most mainstream mirrors (Metalab, many Sunsites and so on) are not publicly accessible.


Best regards,
Steen Suder

beta test distros...

[PimpSmurf]

yeah yeah... they beta test distros. But they didn't come up with the idea. I know that debian has betas, but slackware has been doing beta testing since like 1993. Not trying to start a flamewar, just informing the masses before I get a phone call from a local RedHat junkie saying... "Redhat invented OS beta testing..." Figured this comment would help everyone out...

By the way, Microsoft beta tested windows 93.. I mean 95... for like three years! and it still sucked! Imagine how many bugs were in the first windows 2000 beta!!!

PimpSmurf

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[ChadN]

I hadn't realized that Bero had moved over to working with RedHat (previously, he had merged BeroLinux with Linux-Mandrake, to produce a Pentium compiled Mandrake). I haven't kept up with RedHat, have they also been moving towards providing Pentium compiled releases?

The PentiumGCC period was a dark time for Mandrake :-), but fortunately, gcc/g++ 2.95.2 is about a trillion times less buggy than any release since 2.72.2 (for which the bugs were at least mostly known), and I'm happily using it. Bero has done a lot to make sure packages (including recent kernels), are stable under gcc 2.95.2, and frankly, seeing him working for RedHat is a good sign for them.

Because people hammer the primary mirrors

[DragonHawk]

I would guess the reason metalab kicked you is that everyone and their brother started piling on the primary mirrors before they even managed to complete mirroring from the master at Red Hat. If people actually had some patience and waited for the official announcement, to give time for the mirrors to propagate, they wouldn't need to do this. Instead, you'll likely see mirrors setting up private distribution channels so they can actually provide the service they are trying to provide -- for free, I might add.

People, when will you learn: The reason big names like Red Hat delay a little before announcing a release is so that the mirrors have time to grab it! If you don't like incomplete and slow mirrors, then wait until Red Hat says "Go ahead" before piling onto the servers.

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[Maniac_Dervish]

just change your /etc/apt/sources.list file to point to potato instead... then do 'apt-get update' followed by 'apt-get dist-upgrade'. i'm running on alpha too; it worked fine.

elijah

GNOME debs for the Debian/stable

[guacamole]

There are Debian packages for gnome, E, wmaker, etc
See instructions on www.gnome.org

Re:GNOME debs for the Debian/stable

[eMBee]

but not for alpha :-(
(i did find the alpha ones elsewhere though)

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[Menthos]

...so saying that Mandrake is taking ideas from RH is a good joke.

I believe the joke is yours. If Mandrake weren't taking ideas from Red Hat, there simply would be no Mandrake as we know it today. The opposite is probably just as true.

Maybe you should read the recent article on Mandrake and the relationship between them and Red Hat (previously featured on the beloved /.) for some really nice quotes on this.

Re:Advertisements already out

[Menthos]

Uh... my correction.. It says "shipping 4/8" (i suspect that's the 8th of April) in the advertisement link above... so the official announcement will probably be tomorrow, and all mirrors will be working, but "the official box" won't be shipping for a couple of days.

Im speculating, but this is the usual procedure with Red Hat releases, if I remember correctly. As a side-note, I think all official announcements of new RedHat versions have been on Mondays... anybody want to clarify on this one?

Shipping dates

[Menthos]

Looked at it a third time... appearantly it's only 6.2 Professional that's shipping that late.

• Official 6.2 - Shipping March 31 (elinux.com link)
• 6.2 Deluxe - Shipping March 31 (elinux.com link)
• 6.2 Professional - Shipping April 4th (elinux.com link)

Sorry for my triple-posting.

Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[rmull]

It's definitely netscape. I make sure to kill mine and restart it a few times an hour. Of course, I can't remember the last time it actually ran that long...

Full ISO of Redhat 6.2 Final i386 aka Zoot i386

[StarHeart]

ftp://208.35.138.5/pub/zoot-i386.iso
ftp://206.30.124.5/pub/zoot-i386.iso

Verified with md5sum

Download away!!!

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[eMBee]

somebody rate brian up!
i found slink alpha binaries here: http://www.debian.org/~jim/debian-gtk-gnome.old/gn ome-stage-slink/dists/slink/ main/binary-alpha/.

thank you so much.
it would be nice if some of that stuff could be included in the official upgrades, but i can deal with a few unofficial packages.

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[eMBee]

i will not install distributions marked 'unstable' on production machines.
if something goes wrong i do not want to be told, that it's the risk of running unstable stuff.

greetings, eMBee.
--

alpha processor?

[eMBee]

will the alpha release come out too now?
6.1 was delayed by quite some time :-(

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:alpha processor?

[eMBee]

naaa, i was talking about 6.3 ;-)

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:alpha processor?

[Ranger Rick]

Alpha? The *BETA* had already been released. You're going backwards. Oh! What? Um... Never mind.

:)

Re:alpha processor?

[bero-rh]

It won't be delayed as long as it was in 6.1.
The big problem with alphas is that their binaries are huge - most of the time it's a problem getting everything to fit on a CD.

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[eMBee]

yeah,
but debian takes a year to come out with a new release,
whereas redhat will have a new stable release every 3 to 6 months.
it would be nice if debian had some stable updates once in a while.
no need to update everything, just the faster moving stuff like gnome-apps.

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:features..?

[eMBee]

Roxen WebServer?
debian and suse have it.

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[eMBee]

'course you could just grab the latest gnome debs off the unstable tree if you were that desperate for them.

that didn't work.
the gnome dependencies from slink to potato just changed to much.
and yes i was desperate. the gnumeric version that comes with slink is very unstable (at least on alpha) and any attempt to compile a newer version just failed :-(

greetings, eMBee.
--

Re:wow, sure enough

[SmartyPants]

Are you sure.... the ISO is dated March 9th

Re:ld-linux.so and netscape

[Wah]

you've spent too much time with microsoft. Those are bugs, not features.

--

Re:I found a mirror with full dist and ISOs

[weaselp]

dude how about

alias rot13='tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M'

if you can't find it in /usr/games

--

To bero

[Kymermosst]

On behalf of myself, and many others, I'm sure, I'd just like to thank you for your activity here. It's refreshing to see you Red Hat guys participating here, answering questions. That alone is one of the primary reasons I'm going to stick with Red Hat Linux.

Thanks again.

Promise support?

[Bun]

Anyone know if there will be built-in support for the Promise ATA-66 controllers?

Regards,
Bun

Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[knarf]

ld-linux.so is the shared library loader, part of the Gnu C library. Are you sure it is Enlightenment which triggers this `bug' and not RedHat's version of Netscape Communicator/Navigator? The latter is usually started through a script which calls the library loader directly to set up an environment for Netscape. This way, the library loader shows up in the process list eating a lot of memory. I had the exact same `problem' on my 256 MB box, and `solved' it by using my own version of Netscape. Which still hogs memory as all Netscape's do, but at least it does not preload half the contents of /usr/lib... Cheers//Frank

6.2 beta higher kernel?

[crypton]

Looks like the 6.2 beta is 2.2.15 and 6.2 is 2.2.14? Wassup?

Re:6.2 beta higher kernel?

[prog-guru]

Wasn't 6.0 2.2.5?

Re:6.2 beta higher kernel?

[bero-rh]

2.2.15 as in 6.2 beta == 2.2.15pre-something + patches.

2.2.14 as in 6.2 final == 2.2.14 + some but not all patches from 2.2.15pre + patches - 2.2.15 was not released in time.

Re:features..?/Already in Mandrake since 6.1!

[Zurk]

heh. hopefully redhat will have cleared its errata list for 6.1 before 6.2 comes out officially..one thing that really bugs me is the errata coming out straight after the iso hits the servers and is pressed on cd.

Re:GDB in RedHat (threads)

[galmeida]

As far as I know gdb (and others free linux debuggers) never worked with threads.
It's not a problem with Debian or RH distro.

If I'm wrong please let me know (and tell me how to debug multi-thread apps).

Re:Some packages are really outdated

[dburcaw]

Try rebuilding some of RH's newt tools against slang 1.4. There's a nasty little bug somewhere that causes some display problems.

Regards,
Dan

Dan Burcaw

features..?

[isNaN]

What`s the new features..?

Is it just a new cool installer or is it annything i can actually benefit of..?

Re:features..?

[bero-rh]

Definitely - Kernel 2.3.99 is already in the tree that will become rawhide as soon as someone updates the ftp servers.

Re:features..?

[bero-rh]

It is almost only stuff you can actually benefit of; aside from bugfixes (which should be the most important stuff in this release):

• Networking packages (telnet, ftp, etc.) split up in client and server packages
  
• Kerberos authentication stuff, gnupg and netscape 128-bit included (now that the export restrictions are gone...)
  
• Software RAID optimized for Pentium III (optional)
  
• sysctl program that takes care of /proc/sys settings
  
• more secure default installation (fewer running daemons)
  
• compressed man pages
  
• New xinitrc layout (xinitrc.d) for better maintainability
  
• New font installations recognized automatically, no need to run mkfontdir etc. anymore; simply restart xfs
  
• ISDN support
  
• Autodetect and support up to 4 GB RAM
  
• Beowulf added, piranha extended
  
• vim preconfigured to support syntax highlighting and other fancy stuff
  
• colorized ls used by default
  
• Termcaps fixed up to be more consistent (Backspace, Delete, Home and End now do what you'd expect them to do everywhere)
  
• New packages: Mesa, sawmill, anacron, docbook, joystick, rpmlint, stylesheets
  
• Better internationalization support (16-bit display support; Netscape now speaks French, Spanish, German and Japanese)
  
• updated base packages to latest versions (unless they're too unstable)
  
• More than 100 new packages in powertools; among others abiword, SDL, glxMesa, nasm, postfix, powertweak
  
• Probably more stuff I forgot to mention
  

Its an improvement over 6.1

[lurking]

Just upgraded 6.2 over 6.0. Its a definite improvement over 6.1. Whenever I upgraded to 6.1 it would somehow hose all the network setup for my cable modem. Always got to the point I would have to start from scratch.

So it's got my vote so far!!

Re:up2date?

[JaySWF]

Can you say "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"? Debian has had this feature for a while and quite frankly, this was why I switched.

No more handcrafted config files overwritten by an overambitious rpm-updater. No sir, not for me!

Re:I found a mirror with full dist and ISOs

[Alex_Kaufman]

The files are dated March 9th, are you sure it's the final 6.2 instead of a beta-current snapshot?

Re:No ISO

[AntiBasic]

mAIsE: then what makes RHL so superior to fbsd to cause such a clamor other than it's stigma?

Re:XFree86 4.0

[lurcher]

Well I also notice that it includes a beta version of QT, that isn't even the latest beta. At least XFree86 4 is released.

Re:Qt 2.1

[lurcher]

Its no big deal, I just had to make a couple of changes to the unixODBC files created by moc, as they were not compatible with those from 2.0.2.

That does raise a interesting question, I assumed, that the release day was today, how long ago was it frozen ?

Re:GDB in RedHat (threads)

[Iluvatar]

I've tried gdb on the x86 RedHat 6.1 and it seems to work with threads (at least switching between threads, doing backtraces and single-stepping seemed to be okay)...

Re:What about USB?

[Iluvatar]

The USB backpatch is for 2.2.14, but has anyone tried it with the RedHat 6.2 kernel (I think it is not the "standard" 2.2.14 -- has some extra patched applied)?

--- I'm an INTP, why?

6.2-Beta Stable

[wharfrat]

Well there is no ia-32 ISO at metalab yet so I will waite.
If this is more stable than the beta, I will be very impressed. 6.2-Beta is more stable then any other version of redhat I have seen.

I386 ISO

[wharfrat]

There is an iso at ftp.kernel.org

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[Kinthelt]

I definitely agree. Not only does Debian have beta releases, so does Slackware.

I guess the poster owns stock in RHAT and is trying to spread FUD. :)

Bero- thanks

[Xenex]

I'd just quickly like to thank you for the XFree86 4 rpm's and the KDE 2 CVS rpm's.

Nice that someone at Red Hat not only will get rpm's out quickly (even if they are experimental) but will also support KDE2, even though the rest of Red Hat seems to have deserted it....

Thanks!

(and the M$- Trek was funny :)

Re:DSL?

[teg]

ADSL/cable work like an ordinary LAN AFAIK.

Re:i don't think so

[teg]

If you look at the 6.2 beta, sawmill is included but is not the default. Just switch window manager using the gnomecc, and you're ready to go.

Re:features..?/Already in Mandrake since 6.1!

[bero-rh]

Not surprising (not most of them, by the way, just some), considering I made them in both distribs. ;)

Re:where is the announcement

[ozzmosis]

well its not metalabs fault , its actually that the hourly update the permissions on the folder that it downloaded was wrong. but ftp://download.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/ redhat/redhat-6.2/iso/ has it

Re:No ISO

[ozzmosis]

ftp://down load.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/red hat-6.2/iso/ no iso? what is this

Re: XFree86

[Geert-Jan]

>(I got 4.0 to build, but xfs doesn't work anymore, and I'm too lazy to figure out what I did wrong.)

If you're trying to launch the seperate xfs binary with XFree4.0, there's no need to, it's built in now.

Re:xfree86-4.0 isn't stable

[Benley]

As mentioned in a previous thread, there are big problems with it on Sparc, as well as the lack of a good configuration tool (I believe).

How java ready?

[Gourry]

Hi, I was wondering how java ready is this release?

It'll be great one day when I can get a distro with full J2EE support + database + JDBC driver. But for now I'll settle for the database + jdk1.2.2 + Apache Tomcat integrated into the webserver. EJBOSS is almost ready as an ejb server...

Which of these are in the release? Does redhat have any goals for java developers beyond the inclusion of a jdk? Thanks

Re:How java ready?

[bero-rh]

jdk is not free, and not even freely redistributable; in short we can't include it because of its restrictive license.

We're working on some alternatives though.

Hahaha

[Sadfsdaf]

The link that was supplied i have a permission denied! Does anyone else have mirror sites?

Re: XFree86

[e7]

Does this mean that XFree86 4.0 didn't make it into the new RedHat release? Darn. (I got 4.0 to build, but xfs doesn't work anymore, and I'm too lazy to figure out what I did wrong.)

(Which, btw, just confirms my sig. LOL)

Correction!!

[e7]

Sorry, I meant that MY actions confirmed e7's Law. I did NOT intend any slight against RedHat.

Re:Sincere Thanks to Bero-rh

[medicthree]

To: Netsnipe
From: The OpenSource Community and Slashdot

Mr. Netsnipe, please stop posting things using such buzzwords as "OpenSource Community" when you clearly do not speak for the "OpenSource Community" (should I call it OSC?) nor for Slashdot as a whole. Please refrain from thanking anyone on behalf of Slashdot, or from making any comments on behalf of Slashdot. You are but one user and it should be fairly obvious that there are people of many different opinions using this forum. While I'm very happy from you that you've met Bob Young, you have far from proven that the conception that RH is the "M$" of the Linux world is a "misconception." Oh, since you met him and he seemed nice you figured you'd take his word for it that RH is a friend of your "OpenSource Community"? And a couple of posts from an employee of a corporation with much to gain from having good PR on slashdot doesn't do anything to make me think any differently of the issue. Additionally, if you so feel the need to thank bero-rh, what exactly was keeping you from emailing him and doing so? Oh, that's right, I forgot, you just wanted to be moderated up to 5 so that you'd get some positive karma. Well, I know I'm going to be moderated down to -1 for this, but let it be. I really don't care, but I feel that this had to be said.

On behalf of the OpenSource Community and Slashdot, please don't speak for the OpenSource Community or Slashdot, Netsnipe

Re:Sincere Thanks to Bero-rh

[medicthree]

Anyway, I really don't know why I'm answering you because you obviuosly don't know what you are talking about.

I do know why I'm answering you, and it's because you don't know what you're talking about. Have you had your head buried in the sand for the past six months? Have you not even heard of, or read, the quotes from Bob Young relating to kernel development? I suggest you go seek that out and come back when you're more informed.

ld-linux.so and netscape

[small_dick]

i think `netscape` is a script that runs ld-linux.so and the actual browser.

i have seen netscape crash and leave ld-linux.so spinning away on the cpu many, many times.

the other thing that happens, is netscape will appear to be refusing to start, but is actually running. every time you try to launch it, another process gets started, but no brawser appears.

so, i use the `top` or `ps` commands whenever netscape crashes to check for instances of ld-linux.so in the process table, then kill them.

similarly, whenever i see netscape failing to launch, i use `top` or `ps` to find the multiple instances of netscape and kill them.

DSL?

[prog-guru]

It's too easy to set up a ppp connection with a modem in RH > 6.0, how is support for DSL/cable? I hear you need a different daemon for it to work right? Windows users have to install software to use their new connections (I think one such program is called Winpoet), is anything like this included/necessary, or are we to find adapters that emulate standard modems?

Re:DSL?

[prog-guru]

That's what I was hoping, or anything that was different would be taken care of in hardware, so Linux can just think it's always connected and treat it like a normal network connection. Here's a question...if you don't have a static IP, can Linux figure out what the default gateway should be (ppp connections can make themselves the default gateway when brought up)?

Re:DSL?

[DeHackEd]

Assuming you get your IP address from a DHCP server, just install "DHCPCD" when you install RedHat. It's a DHCP client and will auto-configure your interface once it's set up and do the usual DHCP stuff. You can configure it from Linuxconf as one of your ethernet interfaces. PPPd usually sets the default gateway when you connect on it's own.

Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[homoted]

It is probably good ol netscape. LOL

Thank you Bero

[homoted]

It is very nice of bero being here and clearing up some FUD and even answering politely to some of the trolls.

btw: I dislike the trend of people that are using Slackware only because it thinks it makes them cool even when most of these users are more clueless than most RedHat users and only use slack so they can brag about it to their friends...

However I fully respect slackware users that actually know how things work..

Use your distro for the right reasons please.

RedHat all the way!

Re:Some packages are really outdated

[manplusdog]

Yeah, icewm is my favourite WM. Have a look at sourceforge and see which WM has the most downloads. Lets get it in for 7

Re:Some packages are really outdated

[fredlwm]

Thanks for the answers. Just two points:

lynx-2.8.3-2 means it's the second version of a Red Hat Linux RPM containing a 2.8.3 release of lynx.

I follow Lynx's development, and frankly, it should be 2.8.3dev.x-1or2 or whatever RedHat is using as their Lynx. It's hard to know which version you're shipping. If RedHat now uses the right versioning scheme for util-linux (I remember 2.9 series not including a-z), the same may apply to Lynx.

Diskspace issue; some of the packages you mentioned are in powertools

As a soccer supporter (grin), Powertools is the second division. When something is better and popular (although for me popularity comes later) than any other application included in RedHat, it should replace it. At least IceWM could be in RedHat since 6.0 (not in Powertools), but I see Sawmill shipping with 6.2. IceWM is fast, stable (I logged out after 6 months), and looks good. My POV about this great Window Manager. Well, I also consider Pavuk better than GNU wget (and it's actively developed)... Yes, it's very easy to compile yourself from a tarball or make an RPM, so it shouldn't be a big problem for the end user. But it's a "prize" for the author when you include their work in the distribution.

Re:Red Hat Linux 6.2 Release notes

[fredlwm]

Glibc? I just installed the one from 5.2 1 year ago because they're binary compatible, but didn't tried 2.1.x yet. I made a full install of 5.1, removed what I don't use, and started upgrading what I use (or is worth), but from the sources, and rarely using RPM (only for their official updates). Well, now I can say that it's not a RedHat, but a hybrid distro. But the only RPM widely used and old here is Glibc. And 2.0.7 isn't bad. BTW, yes, there's a sort of glibc-HOWTO somewhere with installation instructions (but for the sources). With some money to buy hardware and a good link you can start your own distro (or make a HatRed 1.0).

Red Hat Linux 6.2 Release notes

[fredlwm]

There's a release notes here. Well, I'm happy with RedHat 5.1 Manhattan. No need to upgrade.

Re:Red Hat Linux 6.2 Release notes

[jbailey999]

Glibc is not tremendously difficult to upgrade, you need to do a few things though:

1) Make sure that you have the add-ons crypt and linuxthreads.
2) Build in a separate subdirectory ../glibc-2.1.3/configure --prefix=/usr --enable-add-ons
3) Make sure it passes `make check'. Under *no* circumstances should you ever install a buggy compile as your main libc.

Re:Ah hah! Netscape would indeed be it :-(

[innocent_white_lamb]

A few weeks back I was doing something where I ended up having Netscape running for about 4 days straight, without exiting once. By the time I was done, Netscape occupied 135mb of my ram, this on a 128mb machine. Needless to say, things were starting to slow down a bit when switching between windows/tasks....

Red Hat Beta

[oldcoyote]

Isn't that what slackware current is?

oldcoyote

OOG BACK!!!

[OOG_THE_CAVEMAN]

OOG NO RIPOFF, OOG JUST CAVEMAN WHO GET BORED READING SLASHDOT AND DECIDE TO ADD SOME WORTH TO IT!!! OOG TAKE STAND AGAINST KARMA WHORES AND DOGMA ON SLASHDOT!!!

Re:OOG BACK!!!

[OOGs_apostles]

OOG has returned... we have predicted this and now rejoice!

our idol, our friend (we hope), and our savior

all praise mighty OOG, the wisest cave man ever seen on /.

Re:OOG BACK!!!

[OOGS Lover]

OOG IS MY LOVER. I JUST GOT ON COMPUTER SO I CAN TELL OOG HOW MUCH I LOVE HIM. I HATE KARMA WHORES TOO. I HELP OOG ON SLASHDOT AND GIVE HIM MUCH LOVE IN CAVE AT HOME. OOG HAVE VERY BOG DICK, GIVE OOGS LOVER MUC PLEASURE WITH TONGUE TOO!!!

Re:where is the announcement

[OOGs_apostles]

i agree. where is the announcement? was this just something you picked up on by jumping around different ftp servers and happened upon? were you looking for it?

you also mention the beta idea... is there no mention of rd's decision to release the beta? could you not provide a link for us other than the ftp server?

OOG shall return, and will soon rule the world.

we agreen with "Re:i agree"

[OOGs_apostles]

we dont mind most of the posts, but do dislike some...

if we come in late to a forum, we often only read the posts that have been moded to 3 or above, and often miss good posts.

a suggestion for moderators (those who actually read this), follow the moderator guidelines and waste mod points on harmless posts. mod down the derogatory posts, leave the trolls (which really arent trolls), leave the humorous posts, and mod up not down.

AND DONT MOD DOWN OOG!!!!!

we, all the /. readers, will appreciate it.

Re:a question

[OOGs_apostles]

we stayed with caps, since this is how he does it, and we are purists.

having said that, however, we do not believe that he would mind since he does not seem to recognize the different cases.

we trust you as a friend :)

Re:we

[OOGs_apostles]

just one, but its more fun to speak as if we were more... after all, our name is plural (OOGs_apostle just didnt sound right)

WWOD?

Re:2.2.14

[OOGs_apostles]

we noticed it was 2.2.14 and are almost sad we cannot take advantage of this release, for we run linuxppc.

we are still new to the ways of the linux rebels, and have to wonder, "how much of a problem would it be to take what we want and install to our system?"

how much of a difference does it truly make? linuxppc seems to be *almost* redhat, and redhat runs on a number or architectures. could we download the packages, or would we need to download the source and compile, or should we wait till it appears on linuxppc.org?

WWOD?

this doesn't look very complete

[oog_rocks]

important things like bash, initscripts, and a full X install aren't there. maybe we shouldn't start hammering the ftp servers until there is actually a dist to download.

Re:this doesn't look very complete

[oog_rocks]

oh, sorry for misreading that. damn, you're really on top of news today :)

i'm guessing that's insmonia at work(just like this post) ;)

Re:this doesn't look very complete

[HeUnique]

As I posted - it is STARTING to get mirrored - NOT finished yet..

wow, sure enough

[oog_rocks]

just a few minutes later and there is a ton more stuff in the RPMS directory. i'm really hoping the iso shows up tonight as well. do you have any inside news on that?

settle down

[oog_rocks]

the whole dist isn't even uploaded yet. if the iso isn't there in a few hours then you can start flaming redhat. :)

today is a good day

[oog_rocks]

maybe today is a good day to release :)

seriously though, it's pretty cool to see two great operating systems released for free on the same day.

i should get another drive and try out beos, it's pretty scary when a 27GB and a 6GB aren't enough.(yes, i'm an mp3 whore)

who else is currently mirroring?

[oog_rocks]

I know how there is a list of mirrors on RH's page, but is there a way of knowing in what order the mirror sites will get the dist? I'm guessing metalab isn't up to the task of handling all the downloads when all the geeks wake up tomorrow

Re:Bugs in 6.2beta?

[oog_rocks]

redhat 6.2 should be the best redhat release to date. poking around in the ftp tree and and i still can't say whether they're installing XFree86-4.0, but i'm certainly not expecting it.
I suppose you can just pull rpms of it out of rawhide if you want it. All in all i'm ready to be really impressed by redhat when i get around to installing it next week, won't be able to this weekend because of a funeral :(

i agree

[oog_rocks]

the immature sexual trolling is really annoying at times, sometimes the only way around it is to set your threshold at 1 or heigher. the only problem is then you sometimes miss good but overlooked posts.

xfree86-4.0 isn't stable

[oog_rocks]

X4 isn't ready for the big time just yet.
anyway Redhat 7.0 will probably have kernel 2.4 and X4 and I think it makes sence to upgrade those two major packages in a full version change instead of a point release which is usually reserved for incremental improvement.

ISO there

[oog_rocks]

the iso is now partially there, you'll be able to download it in a matter of minutes, it's pretty cool to watch a dist mirror get updated :)

hey cool, you rock man

[oog_rocks]

what's the chances of these rpms drifting on over to rpmfind.net's contrib?

no topic

[oog_rocks]

this was one of the good overlooked posts i was talking about, pity it will probably be moderated down :(

new progs

[oog_rocks]

a little newer kernel, a little newer X, newer apps all around. bigger stronger faster, but only a little at a time. :) all in all mostly just an upgrade, if you keep your machine reasonable current then probably not of much interest to you. after all, its only a point release(6.1 -> 6.2)

a question

[oog_rocks]

while you may not be the official source i definitely value what i say... so do you think i should change the "Oog" in my posts to "OOG", or is it pretty much case-insensitive since he types in all caps?

whoah

[oog_rocks]

enlightenment-0.15.5-48.i386.rpm is what is in the dist, that is seriously dated.

I really don't know why they would ship that with redhat 6.2, after all thats the same package as shipped with 6.1. I wonder if this is for reasons like gnome integration or configuration or if it is something political.

Re:whoah

[pabs]

0.16 introduces some features that are simply doubling functionality that's already provided by gnome

You really should expand on this; here's a list of what he is talking about:

• Iconbox - the place where X apps not mapped onscreen hide. GNOME provides a half-assed panel applet that is gigantic (screen real estate-wise), slow, ugly as sin and hard to use (IMHO); Enlightenment 0.16 provides a fast, simple, and customizeable Iconbox (or more htan one, if you prefer) that can be docked anywhere on screen, made completely transparent, horizonal or vertical, tiny (w/ or w/o scrollbars), etc,etc.
• Pager - a larger representation of a virtual desk. GNOME provides a plain pager applet that eats a lot of ram and doesn't display window contents; the Enlightenment version can do realtime updates, has drag-n-drop (ie dragging windows around inside the pager AND dragging windows from the pager to the iconbox and to the current screen), has a zoom feature, and isn't bound to a panel.
• Session management - GNOME provides session management, or restarting and repositioning applications each time X starts, via gnome-session and the associated session management in the GNOME control-center. Unfortunately, gnome-session is almost completely broken; entries get dropped or duplicated, things that shouldn't load keep doing so (specifically the help browser), and it doesn't provide any sort of error management for auto-launched apps (except when the app in question is a GNOME one, but noone runs all gnome apps). Then there's Enlightenment "session management": right-click on a window and select remember, select what you'd like E to remember, and press okay. No muss, no hassle. E doesn't get confused when apps die, it doesn't bitch about more than one application running, it doesn't launch arbitrary applications when they're not on the list, it doesn't make you fight with runlevels, and it cooperates nicely with your .xsession and .xinitrc settings (before anyone argues with me, yes it does; I use .xsession at work and .xinitrc at home w/ remmebered apps).
• Applets - mini applications. GNOME provides applets in the panel, but supposedly allows apps to be docked in the panel, making them panel applets too. (I recommend any Xlib programmers skip the next part, 'cuz it'll probably make you gag). Unfortunately, panel provides this docking functionality via XReparentWindow(), which is not supposed to be used by apps, only by window managers. Other than that, Enlightenment doesn't restrict applets in any way. If you want them, Enlightenment also provides very nice enlightenment-specific applets called epplets, which sync up with your current theme to look pretty. These do not interfere with GNOME, and they're completely optional (very much like WindowMaker dockapps -- i noticed they includeda recent version of WM).

As for Enlightenment 0.16 having a higher memory footprint, apparently you're a bit behind on the times as far as memory management goes. Linux (and virtually every other UNIX and UNIX clone) has virtual memory (unused memory pages are swapped out of memory to disk), and LOD (load on demand, where data isn't fetched until it's needed -- the reason unstripped binaries have the same memory footprinta s non-stripped binaries). Please don't talk about things you are obviously not qualified to talk about in a public forum.

Plus, E16 includes a lot of really useful features that E15 doesn't have: bug-fixes, speed-improvements, KDE support, window grouping, window layering, better menu support, GUI configu tools, and a ton of other things I'm sure i'm forgetting.

--
odds of being killed by lighning and

Re:whoah

[raster]

..." I do like the flexibility of E and the fact that it can be quite efficicient when you want it to be, but that pager is the biggest CPU hog ever. Its pretty, but I don't see enough functionality to justify the resources it demands, even
on a reasonably fast machine.
"

turn snapshottign off - you'll find them as fast as any other pager :) as has been noted almost everyhting is E is turn-off-able - if the feature is a bit too much for your box.. it can be turned off - for my mahcines it was barely noticeable that it was turned on.. :) just a remiinder that E is configurable.. if a feature "offends" you - visually, cpu-wise etc.. u can turn it off :)

BTW - dunac was noting the memeory footprint of the code i think in his VM comment - so even if the code is bigger - unused code pages are never paged in form disk.. thus they may appera to take ram in PS and TOP - but infact they don't = if that page of code is not executed :)

Re:whoah

[bero-rh]

It's primarily a gnome integration thing.
0.16 introduces some features that are simply doubling functionality that's already provided by gnome; in our default configuration, it doesn't add much aside from stuff that would be turned off and a larger memory footprint.

With sawmill probably becoming the default window manager for gnome, we'll probably update enlightenment for the next version.

srpms

[oog_rocks]

i'm guessing that you could install stuff with the srpms, but i think i'd be leary with things that are strongly architecture dependant(kernel, libc, gcc, binutils)

btw, the WWOD really cracks me up :)

ISO

[oog_rocks]

iso is a the format of the data on a cdrom. putting an iso online like this allows people to download the ~600MB file and burn their own copy.
while some people (openbsd) don't do release an iso image in an attempt to drive up sales, many linux distros do. pretty much if your on a modem it doesn't matter either way :)

haha

[oog_rocks]

dude, its just rot13, the premier encryption algorithym ;) try the command rot13 on your computer, it probably resides in /usr/games

for some really freaky stuff, try rot13 something twice!

we

[oog_rocks]

how many people is this we?

2.2.14

[oog_rocks]

the kernel is 2.2.14, i have no way of checking to see what it's usb support is like though. :(

if anyone know's i'd love to find out if it is capable of installing onto an ultra ata66 drive.

Re:2.2.14

[Harvey]

I found the HOWTO to be the most useful.... You can install onto an UltraATA drive, it's just a pain in the ass :) Mandrake 7 didn't work for me, but RH 6.1 did.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[wanger]

We have been releasing public betas for every release I can remember back to 3.0.3. In fact, in the 5.x series, we usually had 2 public betas with refreshes of each.

6.2 kernel

[gee308]

Whhat kernel is R6.2 based on? Redhat rules.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[ChmouelB]

I beleive sometime the word opensource is forget:\.

Re:Debian Linux does public betas too.

[HeUnique]

Well, let me correct my post (if I can):

I meant to put a public beta to companies like: SuSE, Caldera, TurboLinux, Corel (no Corel - only to registered is NOT enough)..

Guess I'll have to select my words next time..

up2date?

[Tony Shepps]

Tell me more about this up2date; I must have missed it somewhere along the line.

Re:up2date?

[DrSpoo]

up2date is a nifty RedHat program that looks for updated RPM files available on ftp.redhat.com (or priority.redhat.com if you have paid for that service). It compares what you have installed with whats available, and then gives you a list of RPMs to pick from. Works much like http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ actually. Although not quite as easy use, there are certainly numerous other advantages (pgp signing of RPMs, don't have to reboot, etc etc).

I actually just got it to work with ftp.redhat.com for the first time *yesterday* because its always busy. But when I finally got in, it worked pretty well. Got the new Netscape 4.72 release and some other security updates as well.

up2date is new with version 6.1 of RedHat I believe.

Re:up2date?

[battery841]

up2date is a little Red Hat program which will contact ftp servers that have their info on it (ftp://ftp.redhat.com/up2date) and upgrade your packages. It'll scan your hard disk for packages you have, then compare them to the latest versions. If there are upgrades available, Netscape loads and lets you download and install the package. It is quite a nice program though. Only complaint...they should have more apps that can be upgraded by up2date.

Re:i don't think so

[Andy Dodd]

You misread that.

Sawmill is the default in the development versions of GNOME, not the current stable release series.

The version of GNOME that comes with RH6.2 is from the stable release series - this still depends on E.

Hence, E .15.x makes more sense because .16.x will just cause conflicts with GNOME features and increase memory usage.

As Bero said, once GNOME gets the current devel tree into a stable release, Sawmill will be the default GNOME WM and E will be updated.

Bugs in 6.2beta?

[JanneM]

Strange... I installed the beta three weeks ago, and have yet to have any problems with it. Ah well, I'll just do the 'real' 6.2 install just to be safe.

MetaLab Red Hat mirror - embargoed

[pjones]

At the request of the Red Hat mirror folks, we've set the directory for RedHat-6.2 as non-readable.

We mirror automagically so's we picked up their permissions and of course we left them the way RH had them until they asked us to do otherwise.
When RH tells us to open'em back up, we will.

Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[daviddennis]

I've been using Red Hat's Enlightenment 15.5 on my Linux notebook, an IBM ThinkPad 770Z with 1280x1024 screen and 256MB RAM. You can see I don't really care about memory use that much :-) - except that something called ld-linux.so is chewing up half my memory for some reason - is this the Enlightenment memory leak Raster talks about? And if it isn't, any idea what it might be?

Is there a non-horrifying procedure to upgrade my notebook to the latest Enlightenment? Could some kind soul give me an idea of what it is? When I last tried installing Enlightenment, it took about a week for my system to become vaguely usable :-(.

Raster claims there's a terrifying memory leak in this package - is this why my ld-linux.so appears in top as consuming 100mb RAM after the system has been running for a while.

Many thanks for any ideas

D

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Re:Enlightenment; ld-linux.so memory leak

[daviddennis]

Actually, I have the 14GB drive too, but I still have my Windows partition around, so I can't use the full capacity under Linux.

I may have to nuke the Windows partition - I don't use it, and apparently I can just have Lilo specify the drive parameters and the whole drive will come up under Linux.

You have me beat on the 320MB RAM, though.

Fantastic computer in my opinion. I was impressed that Red Hat 6.1 supported the LCD panel without a whimper. Works fantastic.

D

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Ah hah! Netscape would indeed be it :-(

[daviddennis]

My Netscape has been surprisingly well-behaved recently. It runs about as well as it does on my SGI workstation. It used to be Linux netscape was a lot crashier than on the SGI..

Or it might just be because I'm testing my web site using this system as both a client and a server, and I don't use very many complex HTML tricks (don't want to confuse poor Netscape, after all :-( ).

Thanks for the responses, all. I'll just remember to shut down Netscape more often.

D

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What about USB?

[anthonyclark]

What version of the kernel is included?

I only ask because this afternoon was going to be the "download backpatch, compile and try to get USB mouse + keyboard working" session.

Re:RedHat folks: Security Issues?

[PigleT]

How's about the other perspective: anyone who takes a look at one distribution and deduces "linux sux" from its foibles OUGHT to go back to windoze??

Of course, the idea that Linux is the kernel and GNU/linux is the set of utilities + kernel that constitutes an OS, and that distributions are Linux distributions, does mean that there's some conformity. All you need is reasonable testing both of all the packages (by the authors and other users) and of the sum total distribution (particularly the distinguishing features like linuxconf / yast / debconf / whatever), and then it'll all work bar the bugs they let through.

Has anyone noticed that "it should work" has got further than "we tested on X and Y and will support it on X"?

Why not delay this some more?

[David A. Madore]

Where's the rush? Couldn't they wait just a little more for a usable XFree 4.0 and perhaps even a 2.4 kernel and a 2.2 glibc? Or will that all be in 6.3 or whatever the next release is?

Oh well, I guess there's always something just around the corner.

--
I have the dream that some day all networking programs will fully support IPv6; that I won't have to masquerade my IP address any more; that the DNS will work intelligently; that my browser will be Mozilla, and will be stable; that it will fully support CSS2, MathML and Unicode, and that I'll have all the appropriate fonts for that; that my kernel will be the Hurd; that I can program my TV recording in Scheme...

Re:Why not delay this some more?

[bero-rh]

That all will be in 7.0; check rawhide once the current version has been pushed on the ftp servers.

It's impossible to adapt to these changes that quickly without releasing a totally buggy distribution.

We're almost ready for Kernel 2.4 (2.3.99 is in the tree that will soon be rawhide), but I'd rather not expect 2.4.0 to be the most stable release we've seen, waiting for 2.4.5 or something before releasing a distribution that has to be 100% stable probably makes sense; XFree86 will definitely take a while because it needs fixing up (works ok on x86, but not on anything else), Xconfigurator and the X configuration part of the installer need to be almost rewritten, ...

By the time XFree86 4.0 has been patched enough to actually do something useful and kernel 2.4 has stabilized, it's time for the next Red Hat Linux release anyway...

Oh Yeah, one more thing....

[wowbagger]

There's just one other thing that's been bothering me.</voice>
Will there be an option in 7.0 to set the default RPM options to build for Pentium/PPro/PII[I]?

Re: XFree86

[bero-rh]

XFree86 4.0 didn't make it because it isn't ready for prime time.
I've posted some reasons (and an RPM download location) on a different thread here; check
this.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[bero-rh]

Wrong, by the way - Raw Hide has been around longer than the Mandrake distribution.

Yes, we are taking ideas from Mandrake - after all, they're taking ideas from us, as well. There's nothing wrong with that...

And why would you call us arrogant? If we were, would our people be caught posting on slashdot?

Sincere Thanks to Bero-rh

[Netsnipe]

I think everyone here at Slashdot should give a very big round of applause to bero-rh from RedHat who taken so much of his time to answer all our questions and address our opinions on RedHat 6.2.

As of 12:39pm, Aust. EST, I've counted 26 posts from him. It's probably a record for any Linux company representative (Anyone have statistics on this?) on PR duty. Just curious bero, what position do you have at RedHat?

I recently had the pleasure of meeting Robert Young, the CEO of RedHat at the Australian Linux Expo, and he said that a majority of Slashdoters held the conception that they were the M$ of the Linux world and out to profit from the OSS community. From this misconception, some might believe that RedHat had lost touch with the OpenSource Community, but as bero-rh has clearly shown us during the last two days this is far from the truth.

Being a Debian user, I hope that someone from Debian will also make such a commitment to Slashdot posts. I hope you're listening out there Vicent, Deb, and Ian! But as a past RH user, I'd like to congradulate and thank bero-rh for his work at Slashdot. You've set a fine example to Linux distributers everywhere.

On behalf of Slashdot, thank you very much bero-rh

Some packages are really outdated

[fredlwm]

Maybe someone can answer why some packages are really outdated. Examples? readline 2.2.1. We're at 4.1, and I remember someone from RedHat saying at a list that 4.0 wasn't included because it isn't binary compatible with 2.2.1. But it was before a beta for 6.0. slang 1.2.2. We're at 1.4.0, another major release. No need to mention tcl/tk 8.0.5. We're at 8.3.0. OK, they'll be all in 7.0. Now think about including IceWM, Pavuk, Qps, Kim, among others useful applications. The svgalib graphics library is now depracated and DOSEMU moved to Powertools. I wonder why. And their versioning scheme isn't accurate. As an example, lynx-2.8.3-2 means what? The final 2.8.3 wasn't released. We're still at 2.8.3dev22. IMHO unfortunately RedHat actually is focusing on newbies and including too much useless (I said popular?) applications. I may consider switching to Slackware in my next installation. But it's still a great Linux distribution.

where is the announcement

[oog_rocks]

umm, where is the announcement for this?

Re:where is the announcement

[HeUnique]

Actually, someone from Redhat was on IRC and told me that they will release 6.2 RSN..

And one of our members on Linux IL (Israel) User groups found it on metalab..

And - I'm a slashdot Author :)

Re:where is the announcement

[bero-rh]

There will be an announcement when 6.2 is actually released, not when mirrors are starting to download it and setting wrong permissions on the directories. ;)

RedHat folks: Security Issues?

[JohnZed]

I noticed that Bero was posting a fair amount here, so I wondered if he, or anybody else, could answer a couple of quick questions.
When will Red Hat include a general-purpose security tool or hardening script? In particular, I'm thinking of Bastille Linux, which was designed specifically for RH6.0 and 6.1. And when I saw "include" I don't mean "stick it on the CD in between XEyes and an ancient version of GNUChess, I mean, actually making users aware of it and even incorporating it into a post-install stage. Around here, Linux has gotten a really bad reputation for security, becuase RH6 had a fair number of holes and admins didn't bother to plug them.
One of the biggest differences between a Linux distribution and a commercial Unix distribution is that most of the Unices ship with very, very, very little software (how the hell do they still take up so many CDs without a frickin' copy of bash?!?). However, this does put an extra responsibility on Linux companies to provide a centralized set of tools to remove, shut down, or otherwise patch included utilities that might be hazardous to the system.
Also, when is Red Hat going to make it easier and more foolproof to install necessary fixes? I think the priority FTP access is a nice start, and a good way to add value for your serious customers. But (and I haven't used Red Hat since 6.0, please correct me where I'm wrong) do you have a tool to automatically download secure updates when they become available? And are registered customers automatically notified by email of potential security holes or show-stopping bugs, along with steps to correct them? A lot of Linux systems don't have full-time administrators who can afford to read security sites every day, but that's the kind of service that we all want to pay a Linux distributor to do for us.
Thanks a lot, and I wish you guys well with 6.2!
--JRZ

Re:RedHat folks: Security Issues?

[JohnZed]

If people have experience with one version of Linux, and it's a bad experience, are they likely to go run out and buy a different distribution to see if it works better? Doubtful. It's much more likely that they'll conclude that "Linux sux" and go back to their familiar NT, Unix, or NetWare environments. That's one reason why it's important to see strong collaboration and "mutual idea stealing" between the distributions so that ALL the major player get better: they all have an impact on Linux's public image.
--JRZ

Re:RedHat folks: Security Issues?

[bero-rh]

6.2 already comes with much more secure default settings - nearly all deamons default to off now, and standard workstation installs don't install the servers.
For security updates, there's up2date, which basically automates downloading of updates.

Security packages have always been a problem because of the US export restrictions (Doesn't bastille linux require SSH?); we've started fixing that with 6.2.

Advertisements already out

[Menthos]

Seems like the ads for 6.2 professional are already out on Freshmeat and Slashdot... I got one, and it took me here. Seems like elinux.com is expecting an official release of 6.2 tomorrow so they can start shipping, or else I don't understand the ad, since 6.2 isn't officially released yet...

Re:Explanations...(Some packages are really outdat

[bero-rh]

Deprecated doesn't mean removed; it's just a recommendation not to use it anymore and a warning that it might disappear or be replaced in a future version.

Qt 2.1

[bero-rh]

It was the latest beta at the time the CDs went into production.
And the big difference is that Qt 2.1.0 is a beta, but very stable, and XFree86 4 is called a release but it won't be anywhere near ready for quite a while.

Including Qt 2.0 wouldn't make much sense because close to nothing uses it [and the few apps that do can deal with 2.1]. Qt 2.1 can be used to run the KDE 2 betas, including interesting stuff like KOffice, so including the beta here definitely makes sense.

Re:Other distros *do* produce betas/Mandrake first

[bero-rh]

There have been other reasons than payment (some technical stuff, too early releases, and some more stuff). Introducing new features often also introduces new bugs; if it had been my decision, the releases would definitely have had more testing.

Red Hat does NOT consider itself as the only Linux distribution.
I know as well as anyone else that Linux is 99% made from community work, but Mandrake taking ideas from RH is not a joke at all (and there's nothing wrong with that; anything that works both ways is good); check most spec files to see what's going on.

i don't think so

[oog_rocks]

the people who are going to benefit from e16 are people who aren't running gnome. the way redhat ships pretty much relies on gnome or kde running, and someone who is concerned enough to customize what wm they are running and decides against running both gnome and kde is probably capable of getting an e16 rpm. one nice thing about this is that the e15 rpm can have good gnome/kde friendly settings and the e16 rpm can be setup for more of an enlightenment only install.

try to be more open minded about decisions that are made by linux distros, they really are less political than they seem at first glance

Some good mirrors

[davidu]

1) zoot-i386.iso

2) RedHat 6.2

And check out my site, for my web-based Gnutella client, Phreedom.Net.


-Davidu

I found a mirror with full dist and ISOs

[XNormal]

zoot-doc.iso 594576 Kb Fri Mar 10 00:20:00 2000
zoot-i386.iso 656134 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:39:00 2000
zoot-sparc.iso 613072 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:42:00 2000
zoot-srpms.iso 580122 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:41:00 2000


And then I realized that minutes after I announce it it will be slashdotted and my download speed will drop.

Shall I be selfish?

sgc://qbjaybnq.fbheprsbetr.arg/cho/zveebef/erqun g/erqung/erqung-6.2/vfb/

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Debian Linux does public betas too.

[Netsnipe]

"I think that the beta idea was a really good one (and I know lots of problems have been fixed since the beta was out - look at the rawhide directory in their FTP server). I hope other Linux distributions will follow RedHat with a public beta test before releasing a new version."

I'm not trying to rain in the RedHat parade here or start a distro flamewar (trust me, I've seen enough already), but Debian - the non-profit Linux distribution has had public betas for each of their distributions for years now. It is under a development tree called "frozen" as opposed to the "stable" tree and the "unstable" tree (alpha testing).

However, Debian's testing periods, aka. freezes last for quarters on ends (the current freeze "Potato" has lasted for three months already, and I still haven't seen it about to end anytime soon) just to iron out nearly every bug as compared to other distrubutions. Just check out the update trees and see how short Debian's one is! Being a Debian user myself (and past RedHat user as well), I find it very frustrating that Debian takes forever to include new versions of packages, despite the advantages of the mature and proven.

But when one thinks about it, if anyone downloads the latest source code from each programmer that contributes to distros, then you'd have a distribution more cutting edge than any distro could provide you with. The only problem is that you risk cutting your hand off with a system filled with packages so new that they collide with each other due to inital teething. No one really has time for that, so let the distros do the packaging.

It's nice to see RedHat following Debian's innitiative of releasing public betas and publicising it too. I've always admired how cutting edge RedHat is when it comes to bundling new packages, but I've never really liked downloading 80MB worth of patches for every version of a distribution 6 months after the initial release. Let's hoped RedHat's upped the ante for the other commercial releases.

Actually we do release ISOs

[bero-rh]

Subject says it all - don't judge a new version by what is on a mirror that's not done downloading (the fact that it's publically accessible while in this state is a bug).

Once they're finished downloading, the iso will be at
ftp://metalab. unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/redhat-6.2/ iso.

Also, if you don't like it, let me know WHY (not that I'd agree). We're here to fix things.

XFree86 4.0

[bero-rh]

We're not including XFree86 4.0 because it's not ready.
It doesn't compile at all on sparc (we're currently working on fixing this), doesn't compile out of the box on alpha (we've already fixed that), doesn't have all the drivers 3.3.x used to have (fixing that is a LOT of work), it doesn't have a working configuration tool yet (XFree86 -configure is a start, but it won't let you configure international keyboards and such), and there are a bit too many bugs for a stable release even in the drivers that are there.

In short, it's not even ready for Raw Hide.
I have put up RPMs at
http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimen tal though, for those who have x86es and don't like waiting.

Explanations...(Some packages are really outdated)

[bero-rh]

Outdated packages:
In 6.x releases, one of the primary goals is to remain fully compatible with prior 6.x releases, therefore we usually won't update libraries with API and ABI changes, such as current readline, slang or tcl/tk.
Stuff that was built for 6.0 or 6.1 must be able to run on 6.2 without having to recompile, which is not possible with a change like readline 2.2.1->4.0.
The current versions are all in our internal development tree (which will become rawhide on Tuesday).
SVGALIB
Deprecated because it causes a lot of problems on some systems (try switching terminals from X to SVGALIB and vice versa on a Matrox G200 card, for example).
DOSEMU
We needed more space on the main CD for more important packages, so we moved some not-so-important packages like dosemu to powertools. This doesn't mean they aren't available or supported through bugzilla.
Versioning scheme
lynx-2.8.3-2 means it's the second version of a Red Hat Linux RPM containing a 2.8.3 release of lynx.
The -2 indicates changes to the .spec file used to build the RPMs.
Other packages
Diskspace issue; some of the packages you mentioned are in powertools, I'll check whether it makes sense to add the others to powertools as well.