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RedHat 6.2 - RSN
It seems that Redhat 6.2 will be out Real Soon Now - the mirrors (at least at metalab) are starting to get it. The main Redhat FTP doesn't have it yet - but it should be there in the next few hours... I think that the beta idea was a really good one (and I know lots of problems have been fixed since the beta was out - look at the rawhide directory in their FTP server). I hope other Linux distributions will follow RedHat with a public beta test before releasing a new version. (Thanks Udi for the info).
It expires in 6 months minus 6 days. RedHat's releases are usually a bit under 6 months apart. So it should be REEEEAAAAAL close, too close to say at this point.
But I would *hope* they'd push it back a week or two to include more crypto stuff. It will be very convenient to have it installed by default.
Try either one of the two pages for unofficial updates to slink.
http://www.internatif.org/ bortzmeyer/debian/apt-sources
http://www.debian.org/~vincent
-- I can't say enough in 120 chars!
that sounds like a really lame excuse for not includeing a current version of E!!, I have been using E for a long time and 16.x compiles and runs in my opinion better than 15.x. This seems purely political. I cant completely appreciate that you can include beta QT but not current E.
If sawmill is the new default desktop then there is no reason other than politics not to include E 16. Mandrake, Storm2k, Slackware and a few others dont seem to be having any trouble with it. Raster left and they are being childish about it. When every other major disto is using the current version of E the only conclusion i could make is that it is political, and a pain in my ass because i like to use E16 and RH.
funny there isnt the demand for FreeBSD that there is for RH.
I noticed you guys put in the crypto stuff, which is *fantastic*! Any chance you got ssh 1.27.7 (or OpenSSH) in there as well? Sure, it extremely easy to download, but it would be handy for newbies who are just starting out and want to be safe.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Great, I was 420MB into my RedHat 6.2 download...and then metalab.unc.edu decided to kick everyone off and do this ...
;)
d-w------- 7 root bin 512 Mar 26 02:13 redhat-6.2/
Arg! Whats going on here, why is there a big coverup? Its rude to nuke sessions that have already been started like mine was. It looked to me like a full mirror was already done, there were no missing files at 8:00am when I started AFAIK.
Well, thank God ncftp supports RESUME
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
> SVGALIB
> Deprecated because it causes a lot of problems on some systems (try
>switching terminals from X to SVGALIB and vice versa on a Matrox G200
>card, for example).
That's no real reason to deprecate it through. Just don't have the installer install it as a default library. Don't remove it from the main cdrom though. It doesn't take up that much space, and it's still widely used.
>it still kills me to see apache and samba running on a machine that
>will never use them(not all sysadmins do a good job). Shouldn't these
>services be restricted to those that know how to administer them and
>also need them.
That's what the custom install option RedHat offers is for you dim-witted Microsoft Astroturfer.....
>... does anyone realize how fucking AWESOMELY SLOW linux is to boot? I
>suppose this is just not an issue for anyone since they just leave
>their computer running *all the time* (unless you're running a server
>Geez even Windows 95/98 boots faster.
Not really. Unlike Windows which does nothing but put up an ad for Microshit when it boots up, linux actually informs you what's going on with your system as it boots up. It's great for troubleshooting the system after making changes, unlike Microshit products which leaves you wondering what you did wrong if you screw something up. Next time pay attention to the text on the screen as linux boots up next time, you silly Astrotufer.....
>by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 26, @06:43AM EST (#67)
>Along all shows like CeBIT and others, you can get a beta from the
>current SuSE distro for free. What's the point in the story?
The point is that the vast,vast majority of people *NEVER* attend shows like CeBIT and others for a huge number of reasons.
>Deprecated doesn't mean removed; it's just a recommendation not to use
>it anymore and a warning that it might disappear or be replaced in a
>future version.
Ok. Was wondering if RedHat would consider releasing the text-based shell/interface for configuring lilo used in the 6.1 install as a stand-alone package. It would make configuring lilo for multi-boot systems a bit easier once you've installed things.
Skipping to the assertion (why doesn't /. have a spell checker ;-) that VM totally obviates the need to be concerned about memory allocation, you *know* that there is always a price to be paid for excessive memory allocation.
:)
Hrm, I should have clarified things a bit. You can disable both the icon box and the pager if you don't want 'em, which leaves only the code. In other words, a few kilobytes at best.
Either way, I do think that Sawmill is a more appropriate WM for the GNOME project; the goals of the two are more compatible.
Oh yeah, and I should also mention that my previous post came on really hard. I didn't mean to come across as a complete asshole, I was just trying to point out which features were duplicated, why they were duplicated, and why I (personally) like the E implementations better. Fortunately noone read my post, so I guess it's alright.
--
odds of being killed by lighning and
Odds of being killed by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day: 1 in 2^55
Releasing a public Beta before the actual Release isn't actually what one would call an "Innovation" FreeBSD has been doing that for quite a while already with the 3.x-RC's and up to 4.0-RC3 before 4.0 went RELEASE.
Err... don't other distros actually produce betas then? Mandrake have done betas... and Mandrake-cooker. Slackware-current? And you can pull the development tree of Debian also.
You should stop and try to see the point in what was being said.
I just think it's unfair to say that "other distros should produce betas", when they already do.
I just switched between reading this message in netscape under X and SVGALIB quake2 a few times. I have a G200 and it seems to work fine. What is supposed to go wrong?
Actually, I've been told that the GDB version from RedHat have a special patch for gdb that makes threads work on x86. I remember that I once dissected the gdb source rpm and tried to apply the threads patch. Unfortunately, I couldn't apply the patch. Other people, on the Debian mailing list said that threads should work if I changed from using the normal libc6 to the debug version of libc6. Well it didn't work either and consumed another 8M of precious RAM.
How well does GDB work in RedHat 6.2? The problems with the gdb included in Debian Potato is:
1. It doesn't work with threads.
2. Starting an application with many debugged shared libraries is awfully slow.
3. Stepping into function-calls in shared libraries with C++ doesn't always work.
4. gdb can't remember breakpoints in shared libraries between runs.
All in all I find gdb pretty unusable. I know that several people disagree with me but I tried several advice to get it working better. gdbinit tweaking, changing to a libc6-debug version and gdb patches. But nothing has worked to fully satisfactory so far.
ISDN support: /etc by hand, and on the other hand, a config system should not be designed that you cannot use the hand-edit method anymore. It should also tell you which files it is going to edit and why, and which daemons it is going to start/stop and why. Linuxconf comes close to that idea, but is so buggy for me to be almost completely useless; COAS, the Caldera system, is nice but can do only very few things. YaST from SuSE does it quite well; until you configure something by hand: then it is goodbye YaST forever for that function. Debian and Slackware don't have such systems...maybe just as well, because nobody seems to have got it right anyway.
- --------
How well does it work now?
With SuSE+YaST, setting up isdn, so that any normal user can start/stop/dial it is a piece of cake. With RedHat 6.1, it was just a kludgy script clearly added as an afterthought.
Good ISDN support is almost a reason for me to go back to SuSE. Except that I hate their idea of a single giant config file, with their SuSEConfig scripts sourcing that.
That is just a bad design; a config system should not get confused if you edit the files in
So the only distro with a decent config system for ISDN is SuSE, of which I hate the design, but love the functionality.
-----------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
-------------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just sme
Me too. This is probably *THE SINGLE MOST* irritating feature of several current distributions. Its a real embarrassment, especially after one has gone on and on to friends about the stability of Linux. It will be great to finally toss out that kruft congested old code base in favor of Mozilla/Netscape 5.0. :-) Mandrake 7.0 seems pretty stable and RedHat 6.1 updated to NS 4.72 seems more stable that earlier releases.
I must say I have never really found a use for that icon box. Taskbars and the like suit my taste perfectly. In the interest of full disclosure, I did use Windows95 as my primary home OS for about a year around 1996 ;-).
/. have a spell checker ;-) that VM totally obviates the need to be concerned about memory allocation, you *know* that there is always a price to be paid for excessive memory allocation. In the best case it never gets allocated (lazy allocation). In the more common case, it gets allocated but paged out which gives a temporary performance hit. In the next worse case, it periodically gets used and must be repeatedly paged in and out. VM is very useful but not a panacea. I agree with Bero.
:-)
I do like the flexibility of E and the fact that it can be quite efficicient when you want it to be, but that pager is the biggest CPU hog ever. Its pretty, but I don't see enough functionality to justify the resources it demands, even on a reasonably fast machine.
Skipping to the assertion (why doesn't
BTW, Bero, I thought you were at Mandrake. Now your at RedHat. Well, wherever you are, best of luck and enjoy what you are doing.
-Steve
My guess is that it is related to the fact that the netscape code base is a house of cards built upon Netscape 1.0 and never really rewritten. This is why the Mozilla project finally gave up on the whole thing and started mostly from scratch.
But tell me, is Java Plugin 1.2.2 rc4 usable with Mozilla/Linux? I have been waiting for this for some time and thought that it would be a long time before it was even close to ready. Did I just miss reading about it?
-Steve
What does this really offer over RedHat 6.1? Updated libraries and applications. Whoop-de-do! I can get them for free off the web. At least Mandrake has MandrakeUpdate to fetch updates. Debian has that really cool apt-get thing. Slackware has the tarball patches.
RedHat and other Linux vendors have to relaize to sell "upgrades" to the hardcore Linux people they have to offer more libraries I've probably already updated. Only closed-source companies like Microsoft can use charging ~$90 to update the bugs in their libraries (Windows 98SE).
Perhaps if the included a easy update XFree86 4.0, a RedHatUpdate program and a Linux DVD player I'd consider getting it.
Alternatively, if you have a fast internet connection, just download all of the updates and do a "rpm -f *.rpm".
stable -> extremely stable. As stable as VA servers
unstable -> bleeding edge packages
Uh...They do make updates to the stable release every once in a while. Not sure how far reaching the updates get, though. The last one mostly dealt with security stuff, plus some y2k stuff. I don't know if they update things like gnome. 'course you could just grab the latest gnome debs off the unstable tree if you were that desperate for them.
As a 5.2 user with everything upgraded to the point where it's almost (almost!) a 6.2 anyway, I'm wondering what you did about Glibc?
:-)
I've pretty much hit the upgrade ceiling with a number of apps (WiNE, Sawmill, GNOME, Mozilla, etc) because I'm still running Glibc 2.0, and they require 2.1. That's the main reason I'm considering going for the RHat 6.2 upgrade.
I tried upgrading my Glibc myself, but only managed to just about hose my system (only managed to salvage it by removing my HD, and mounting it in a friend's system who copied his Glibc 2.0 libs back over).
SO... how did you overcome that hurdle? Or did you? I dunno... maybe you don't upgrade as much as me. I guess what I'm really looking for is a Glibc-upgrade-HOWTO. Anyone out there that can help me? Or do I just bite the bullet and upgrade to 6.2?
Anyway... I think I've been rambling here enough, so I'll shut up now
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Hmm... maybe I should try building from source.
I tried using RPM to do it. It got about half-way through the upgrade, and it aborted, spitting me back out on the command line, and of course, nothing worked. Not a single executable gave me anything but a string of error messages. So I ended up taking it down "the hard way" and mounting my HD on a friend's computer, as mentioned.
And ever since then, I've had cold feet. But I guess the extra flexibility of building from source would help.
But anyway... you mentioned that I should build in a separate directory. Then what? Once I'm sure it built correctly. Should I copy over the existing one? Should I point my system at the new ones? And how exactly do I do that?
Like I said above, I guess I'm actually looking for a HOWTO.
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Well, how about listing open mirrors under this post as we use to.
Please list open mirrors only.
It seems that most mainstream mirrors (Metalab, many Sunsites and so on) are not publicly accessible.
Best regards,
Steen Suder
Best regards,
Steen Suder
-- for email: send to
yeah yeah... they beta test distros. But they didn't come up with the idea. I know that debian has betas, but slackware has been doing beta testing since like 1993. Not trying to start a flamewar, just informing the masses before I get a phone call from a local RedHat junkie saying... "Redhat invented OS beta testing..." Figured this comment would help everyone out...
By the way, Microsoft beta tested windows 93.. I mean 95... for like three years! and it still sucked! Imagine how many bugs were in the first windows 2000 beta!!!
PimpSmurf
Stupid people do stupid things... Smart people outsmart each other... --System of a Down
I hadn't realized that Bero had moved over to working with RedHat (previously, he had merged BeroLinux with Linux-Mandrake, to produce a Pentium compiled Mandrake). I haven't kept up with RedHat, have they also been moving towards providing Pentium compiled releases?
:-), but fortunately, gcc/g++ 2.95.2 is about a trillion times less buggy than any release since 2.72.2 (for which the bugs were at least mostly known), and I'm happily using it. Bero has done a lot to make sure packages (including recent kernels), are stable under gcc 2.95.2, and frankly, seeing him working for RedHat is a good sign for them.
The PentiumGCC period was a dark time for Mandrake
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
I would guess the reason metalab kicked you is that everyone and their brother started piling on the primary mirrors before they even managed to complete mirroring from the master at Red Hat. If people actually had some patience and waited for the official announcement, to give time for the mirrors to propagate, they wouldn't need to do this. Instead, you'll likely see mirrors setting up private distribution channels so they can actually provide the service they are trying to provide -- for free, I might add.
People, when will you learn: The reason big names like Red Hat delay a little before announcing a release is so that the mirrors have time to grab it! If you don't like incomplete and slow mirrors, then wait until Red Hat says "Go ahead" before piling onto the servers.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
just change your
elijah
-----
There are Debian packages for gnome, E, wmaker, etc
See instructions on www.gnome.org
I believe the joke is yours. If Mandrake weren't taking ideas from Red Hat, there simply would be no Mandrake as we know it today. The opposite is probably just as true.
Maybe you should read the recent article on Mandrake and the relationship between them and Red Hat (previously featured on the beloved /.) for some really nice quotes on this.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Im speculating, but this is the usual procedure with Red Hat releases, if I remember correctly. As a side-note, I think all official announcements of new RedHat versions have been on Mondays... anybody want to clarify on this one?
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Sorry for my triple-posting.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
It's definitely netscape. I make sure to kill mine and restart it a few times an hour. Of course, I can't remember the last time it actually ran that long...
See you, space cowboy...
ftp://208.35.138.5/pub/zoot-i386.iso
ftp://206.30.124.5/pub/zoot-i386.iso
Verified with md5sum
Download away!!!
Havoc Penington, the bane of my Linux desktop.
i found slink alpha binaries here: http://www.debian.org/~jim/debian-gtk-gnome.old/g
thank you so much.
it would be nice if some of that stuff could be included in the official upgrades, but i can deal with a few unofficial packages.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
if something goes wrong i do not want to be told, that it's the risk of running unstable stuff.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
6.1 was delayed by quite some time
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
but debian takes a year to come out with a new release,
whereas redhat will have a new stable release every 3 to 6 months.
it would be nice if debian had some stable updates once in a while.
no need to update everything, just the faster moving stuff like gnome-apps.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
debian and suse have it.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
that didn't work. :-(
the gnome dependencies from slink to potato just changed to much.
and yes i was desperate. the gnumeric version that comes with slink is very unstable (at least on alpha) and any attempt to compile a newer version just failed
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
Are you sure.... the ISO is dated March 9th
you've spent too much time with microsoft. Those are bugs, not features.
--
+&x
dude how about
/usr/games
alias rot13='tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M'
if you can't find it in
--
Weasel
On behalf of myself, and many others, I'm sure, I'd just like to thank you for your activity here. It's refreshing to see you Red Hat guys participating here, answering questions. That alone is one of the primary reasons I'm going to stick with Red Hat Linux.
Thanks again.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Anyone know if there will be built-in support for the Promise ATA-66 controllers?
Regards,
Bun
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
ld-linux.so is the shared library loader, part of the Gnu C library. Are you sure it is Enlightenment which triggers this `bug' and not RedHat's version of Netscape Communicator/Navigator? The latter is usually started through a script which calls the library loader directly to set up an environment for Netscape. This way, the library loader shows up in the process list eating a lot of memory. I had the exact same `problem' on my 256 MB box, and `solved' it by using my own version of Netscape. Which still hogs memory as all Netscape's do, but at least it does not preload half the contents of /usr/lib... Cheers//Frank
--frank[at]unternet.org
Looks like the 6.2 beta is 2.2.15 and 6.2 is 2.2.14? Wassup?
heh. hopefully redhat will have cleared its errata list for 6.1 before 6.2 comes out officially..one thing that really bugs me is the errata coming out straight after the iso hits the servers and is pressed on cd.
- Alpha is (or at least, should be) a software test version not released to final users. It should be used only by the developers team.
- Beta is a test version released to final users, so they can use, find lots of bugs and feed back the developers. Beta versions are closer to final version than alpha versions.
- Final version: now the software is ready for public use.
As far as I know gdb (and others free linux debuggers) never worked with threads.
It's not a problem with Debian or RH distro.
If I'm wrong please let me know (and tell me how to debug multi-thread apps).
Try rebuilding some of RH's newt tools against slang 1.4. There's a nasty little bug somewhere that causes some display problems.
Regards,
Dan
Dan Burcaw
Is it just a new cool installer or is it annything i can actually benefit of..?
No, i don't like sigs...
Just upgraded 6.2 over 6.0. Its a definite improvement over 6.1. Whenever I upgraded to 6.1 it would somehow hose all the network setup for my cable modem. Always got to the point I would have to start from scratch.
So it's got my vote so far!!
Can you say "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"? Debian has had this feature for a while and quite frankly, this was why I switched.
No more handcrafted config files overwritten by an overambitious rpm-updater. No sir, not for me!
-- DJ Kat is where it's at
Don't worry: working XFree4.0 are alrady in Mandrake-Cooker and most of them work very well. So wait for the next Mandrake! (when?)
The files are dated March 9th, are you sure it's the final 6.2 instead of a beta-current snapshot?
mAIsE: then what makes RHL so superior to fbsd to cause such a clamor other than it's stigma?
Well I also notice that it includes a beta version of QT, that isn't even the latest beta. At least XFree86 4 is released.
That does raise a interesting question, I assumed, that the release day was today, how long ago was it frozen ?
I've tried gdb on the x86 RedHat 6.1 and it seems to work with threads (at least switching between threads, doing backtraces and single-stepping seemed to be okay)...
--- I'm an INTP, why?
Well there is no ia-32 ISO at metalab yet so I will waite.
If this is more stable than the beta, I will be very impressed. 6.2-Beta is more stable then any other version of redhat I have seen.
There is an iso at ftp.kernel.org
I guess the poster owns stock in RHAT and is trying to spread FUD. :)
"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)
I'd just quickly like to thank you for the XFree86 4 rpm's and the KDE 2 CVS rpm's.
:)
Nice that someone at Red Hat not only will get rpm's out quickly (even if they are experimental) but will also support KDE2, even though the rest of Red Hat seems to have deserted it....
Thanks!
(and the M$- Trek was funny
ADSL/cable work like an ordinary LAN AFAIK.
If you look at the 6.2 beta, sawmill is included but is not the default. Just switch window manager using the gnomecc, and you're ready to go.
Not surprising (not most of them, by the way, just some), considering I made them in both distribs. ;)
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
It's Sunday and it's 10:30 pm - I may be fanatic (yes, yes, I even admit I have a "vi admin.cc" task running on another tty), but not even I work 24 hours a day, 7 hours a week.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
well its not metalabs fault , its actually that the hourly update the permissions on the folder that it downloaded was wrong. but ftp://download.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/ redhat/redhat-6.2/iso/ has it
ftp://down load.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/red hat-6.2/iso/ no iso? what is this
If you're trying to launch the seperate xfs binary with XFree4.0, there's no need to, it's built in now.
As mentioned in a previous thread, there are big problems with it on Sparc, as well as the lack of a good configuration tool (I believe).
It'll be great one day when I can get a distro with full J2EE support + database + JDBC driver. But for now I'll settle for the database + jdk1.2.2 + Apache Tomcat integrated into the webserver. EJBOSS is almost ready as an ejb server...
Which of these are in the release? Does redhat have any goals for java developers beyond the inclusion of a jdk? Thanks
The link that was supplied i have a permission denied! Does anyone else have mirror sites?
Does this mean that XFree86 4.0 didn't make it into the new RedHat release? Darn. (I got 4.0 to build, but xfs doesn't work anymore, and I'm too lazy to figure out what I did wrong.)
(Which, btw, just confirms my sig. LOL)
Corollary to Moore's Law: The IQ of new computer owners is declining.
Sorry, I meant that MY actions confirmed e7's Law. I did NOT intend any slight against RedHat.
Corollary to Moore's Law: The IQ of new computer owners is declining.
From: The OpenSource Community and Slashdot
Mr. Netsnipe, please stop posting things using such buzzwords as "OpenSource Community" when you clearly do not speak for the "OpenSource Community" (should I call it OSC?) nor for Slashdot as a whole. Please refrain from thanking anyone on behalf of Slashdot, or from making any comments on behalf of Slashdot. You are but one user and it should be fairly obvious that there are people of many different opinions using this forum. While I'm very happy from you that you've met Bob Young, you have far from proven that the conception that RH is the "M$" of the Linux world is a "misconception." Oh, since you met him and he seemed nice you figured you'd take his word for it that RH is a friend of your "OpenSource Community"? And a couple of posts from an employee of a corporation with much to gain from having good PR on slashdot doesn't do anything to make me think any differently of the issue. Additionally, if you so feel the need to thank bero-rh, what exactly was keeping you from emailing him and doing so? Oh, that's right, I forgot, you just wanted to be moderated up to 5 so that you'd get some positive karma. Well, I know I'm going to be moderated down to -1 for this, but let it be. I really don't care, but I feel that this had to be said.
On behalf of the OpenSource Community and Slashdot, please don't speak for the OpenSource Community or Slashdot, Netsnipe
I do know why I'm answering you, and it's because you don't know what you're talking about. Have you had your head buried in the sand for the past six months? Have you not even heard of, or read, the quotes from Bob Young relating to kernel development? I suggest you go seek that out and come back when you're more informed.
i think `netscape` is a script that runs ld-linux.so and the actual browser.
i have seen netscape crash and leave ld-linux.so spinning away on the cpu many, many times.
the other thing that happens, is netscape will appear to be refusing to start, but is actually running. every time you try to launch it, another process gets started, but no brawser appears.
so, i use the `top` or `ps` commands whenever netscape crashes to check for instances of ld-linux.so in the process table, then kill them.
similarly, whenever i see netscape failing to launch, i use `top` or `ps` to find the multiple instances of netscape and kill them.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
It's too easy to set up a ppp connection with a modem in RH > 6.0, how is support for DSL/cable? I hear you need a different daemon for it to work right? Windows users have to install software to use their new connections (I think one such program is called Winpoet), is anything like this included/necessary, or are we to find adapters that emulate standard modems?
chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
/.: nothing appropriate.
It is probably good ol netscape. LOL
It is very nice of bero being here and clearing up some FUD and even answering politely to some of the trolls.
btw: I dislike the trend of people that are using Slackware only because it thinks it makes them cool even when most of these users are more clueless than most RedHat users and only use slack so they can brag about it to their friends...
However I fully respect slackware users that actually know how things work..
Use your distro for the right reasons please.
RedHat all the way!
Yeah, icewm is my favourite WM. Have a look at sourceforge and see which WM has the most downloads. Lets get it in for 7
Thanks for the answers. Just two points:
lynx-2.8.3-2 means it's the second version of a Red Hat Linux RPM containing a 2.8.3 release of lynx.I follow Lynx's development, and frankly, it should be 2.8.3dev.x-1or2 or whatever RedHat is using as their Lynx. It's hard to know which version you're shipping. If RedHat now uses the right versioning scheme for util-linux (I remember 2.9 series not including a-z), the same may apply to Lynx.
Diskspace issue; some of the packages you mentioned are in powertoolsAs a soccer supporter (grin), Powertools is the second division. When something is better and popular (although for me popularity comes later) than any other application included in RedHat, it should replace it. At least IceWM could be in RedHat since 6.0 (not in Powertools), but I see Sawmill shipping with 6.2. IceWM is fast, stable (I logged out after 6 months), and looks good. My POV about this great Window Manager. Well, I also consider Pavuk better than GNU wget (and it's actively developed)... Yes, it's very easy to compile yourself from a tarball or make an RPM, so it shouldn't be a big problem for the end user. But it's a "prize" for the author when you include their work in the distribution.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
Glibc? I just installed the one from 5.2 1 year ago because they're binary compatible, but didn't tried 2.1.x yet. I made a full install of 5.1, removed what I don't use, and started upgrading what I use (or is worth), but from the sources, and rarely using RPM (only for their official updates). Well, now I can say that it's not a RedHat, but a hybrid distro. But the only RPM widely used and old here is Glibc. And 2.0.7 isn't bad. BTW, yes, there's a sort of glibc-HOWTO somewhere with installation instructions (but for the sources). With some money to buy hardware and a good link you can start your own distro (or make a HatRed 1.0).
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
There's a release notes here. Well, I'm happy with RedHat 5.1 Manhattan. No need to upgrade.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
A few weeks back I was doing something where I ended up having Netscape running for about 4 days straight, without exiting once. By the time I was done, Netscape occupied 135mb of my ram, this on a 128mb machine. Needless to say, things were starting to slow down a bit when switching between windows/tasks....
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Isn't that what slackware current is?
oldcoyote
OOG NO RIPOFF, OOG JUST CAVEMAN WHO GET BORED READING SLASHDOT AND DECIDE TO ADD SOME WORTH TO IT!!! OOG TAKE STAND AGAINST KARMA WHORES AND DOGMA ON SLASHDOT!!!
OOG THE OPEN SOURCE CAVEMAN!!! OOG BREAK HEAD WITH OPEN SOURCE CD!!!
you also mention the beta idea... is there no mention of rd's decision to release the beta? could you not provide a link for us other than the ftp server?
OOG shall return, and will soon rule the world.
Where hast Great OOG gone?
if we come in late to a forum, we often only read the posts that have been moded to 3 or above, and often miss good posts.
a suggestion for moderators (those who actually read this), follow the moderator guidelines and waste mod points on harmless posts. mod down the derogatory posts, leave the trolls (which really arent trolls), leave the humorous posts, and mod up not down.
AND DONT MOD DOWN OOG!!!!!
we, all the /. readers, will appreciate it.
Where hast Great OOG gone?
having said that, however, we do not believe that he would mind since he does not seem to recognize the different cases.
we trust you as a friend :)
Where hast Great OOG gone?
WWOD?
Where hast Great OOG gone?
we are still new to the ways of the linux rebels, and have to wonder, "how much of a problem would it be to take what we want and install to our system?"
how much of a difference does it truly make? linuxppc seems to be *almost* redhat, and redhat runs on a number or architectures. could we download the packages, or would we need to download the source and compile, or should we wait till it appears on linuxppc.org?
WWOD?
Where hast Great OOG gone?
important things like bash, initscripts, and a full X install aren't there. maybe we shouldn't start hammering the ftp servers until there is actually a dist to download.
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
just a few minutes later and there is a ton more stuff in the RPMS directory. i'm really hoping the iso shows up tonight as well. do you have any inside news on that?
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
the whole dist isn't even uploaded yet. if the iso isn't there in a few hours then you can start flaming redhat. :)
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
maybe today is a good day to release :)
seriously though, it's pretty cool to see two great operating systems released for free on the same day.
i should get another drive and try out beos, it's pretty scary when a 27GB and a 6GB aren't enough.(yes, i'm an mp3 whore)
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
I know how there is a list of mirrors on RH's page, but is there a way of knowing in what order the mirror sites will get the dist? I'm guessing metalab isn't up to the task of handling all the downloads when all the geeks wake up tomorrow
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
redhat 6.2 should be the best redhat release to date. poking around in the ftp tree and and i still can't say whether they're installing XFree86-4.0, but i'm certainly not expecting it. :(
I suppose you can just pull rpms of it out of rawhide if you want it. All in all i'm ready to be really impressed by redhat when i get around to installing it next week, won't be able to this weekend because of a funeral
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
the immature sexual trolling is really annoying at times, sometimes the only way around it is to set your threshold at 1 or heigher. the only problem is then you sometimes miss good but overlooked posts.
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
X4 isn't ready for the big time just yet.
anyway Redhat 7.0 will probably have kernel 2.4 and X4 and I think it makes sence to upgrade those two major packages in a full version change instead of a point release which is usually reserved for incremental improvement.
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
the iso is now partially there, you'll be able to download it in a matter of minutes, it's pretty cool to watch a dist mirror get updated :)
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
what's the chances of these rpms drifting on over to rpmfind.net's contrib?
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
this was one of the good overlooked posts i was talking about, pity it will probably be moderated down :(
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
a little newer kernel, a little newer X, newer apps all around. bigger stronger faster, but only a little at a time. :) all in all mostly just an upgrade, if you keep your machine reasonable current then probably not of much interest to you. after all, its only a point release(6.1 -> 6.2)
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
while you may not be the official source i definitely value what i say... so do you think i should change the "Oog" in my posts to "OOG", or is it pretty much case-insensitive since he types in all caps?
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
enlightenment-0.15.5-48.i386.rpm is what is in the dist, that is seriously dated.
I really don't know why they would ship that with redhat 6.2, after all thats the same package as shipped with 6.1. I wonder if this is for reasons like gnome integration or configuration or if it is something political.
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
i'm guessing that you could install stuff with the srpms, but i think i'd be leary with things that are strongly architecture dependant(kernel, libc, gcc, binutils)
:)
btw, the WWOD really cracks me up
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
iso is a the format of the data on a cdrom. putting an iso online like this allows people to download the ~600MB file and burn their own copy. :)
while some people (openbsd) don't do release an iso image in an attempt to drive up sales, many linux distros do. pretty much if your on a modem it doesn't matter either way
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
dude, its just rot13, the premier encryption algorithym ;) try the command rot13 on your computer, it probably resides in /usr/games
for some really freaky stuff, try rot13 something twice!
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
how many people is this we?
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
the kernel is 2.2.14, i have no way of checking to see what it's usb support is like though. :(
if anyone know's i'd love to find out if it is capable of installing onto an ultra ata66 drive.
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
We have been releasing public betas for every release I can remember back to 3.0.3. In fact, in the 5.x series, we usually had 2 public betas with refreshes of each.
Whhat kernel is R6.2 based on? Redhat rules.
I beleive sometime the word opensource is forget:\.
Aren't both Zoot and Piglet names of the residents of the castle Anthrax in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?
Well, let me correct my post (if I can):
I meant to put a public beta to companies like: SuSE, Caldera, TurboLinux, Corel (no Corel - only to registered is NOT enough)..
Guess I'll have to select my words next time..
Hetz (Heunique)
-rw------- 1 root root 674054144 Mar 13 14:19 zoot-alpha.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 608845824 Mar 9 19:20 zoot-doc.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 671881216 Mar 9 13:39 zoot-i386.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 627785728 Mar 9 13:42 zoot-sparc.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 594044928 Mar 9 13:41 zoot-srpms.iso
Hetz (Heunique)
Tell me more about this up2date; I must have missed it somewhere along the line.
You misread that.
.15.x makes more sense because .16.x will just cause conflicts with GNOME features and increase memory usage.
Sawmill is the default in the development versions of GNOME, not the current stable release series.
The version of GNOME that comes with RH6.2 is from the stable release series - this still depends on E.
Hence, E
As Bero said, once GNOME gets the current devel tree into a stable release, Sawmill will be the default GNOME WM and E will be updated.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Strange... I installed the beta three weeks ago, and have yet to have any problems with it. Ah well, I'll just do the 'real' 6.2 install just to be safe.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
We mirror automagically so's we picked up their permissions and of course we left them the way RH had them until they asked us to do otherwise.
When RH tells us to open'em back up, we will.
Certified Black Helicopter Pilot *** Unwitting Dupe of One World Gov'ment
I've been using Red Hat's Enlightenment 15.5 on my Linux notebook, an IBM ThinkPad 770Z with 1280x1024 screen and 256MB RAM. You can see I don't really care about memory use that much :-) - except that something called ld-linux.so is chewing up half my memory for some reason - is this the Enlightenment memory leak Raster talks about? And if it isn't, any idea what it might be?
:-(.
Is there a non-horrifying procedure to upgrade my notebook to the latest Enlightenment? Could some kind soul give me an idea of what it is? When I last tried installing Enlightenment, it took about a week for my system to become vaguely usable
Raster claims there's a terrifying memory leak in this package - is this why my ld-linux.so appears in top as consuming 100mb RAM after the system has been running for a while.
Many thanks for any ideas
D
----
My Netscape has been surprisingly well-behaved recently. It runs about as well as it does on my SGI workstation. It used to be Linux netscape was a lot crashier than on the SGI..
:-( ).
Or it might just be because I'm testing my web site using this system as both a client and a server, and I don't use very many complex HTML tricks (don't want to confuse poor Netscape, after all
Thanks for the responses, all. I'll just remember to shut down Netscape more often.
D
----
What version of the kernel is included?
I only ask because this afternoon was going to be the "download backpatch, compile and try to get USB mouse + keyboard working" session.
----- Documentation is worth it just to be able to answer all your mail with 'RTFM' - Alan Cox.
How's about the other perspective: anyone who takes a look at one distribution and deduces "linux sux" from its foibles OUGHT to go back to windoze??
Of course, the idea that Linux is the kernel and GNU/linux is the set of utilities + kernel that constitutes an OS, and that distributions are Linux distributions, does mean that there's some conformity. All you need is reasonable testing both of all the packages (by the authors and other users) and of the sum total distribution (particularly the distinguishing features like linuxconf / yast / debconf / whatever), and then it'll all work bar the bugs they let through.
Has anyone noticed that "it should work" has got further than "we tested on X and Y and will support it on X"?
~Tim
--
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
Where's the rush? Couldn't they wait just a little more for a usable XFree 4.0 and perhaps even a 2.4 kernel and a 2.2 glibc? Or will that all be in 6.3 or whatever the next release is?
Oh well, I guess there's always something just around the corner.
--
I have the dream that some day all networking programs will fully support IPv6; that I won't have to masquerade my IP address any more; that the DNS will work intelligently; that my browser will be Mozilla, and will be stable; that it will fully support CSS2, MathML and Unicode, and that I'll have all the appropriate fonts for that; that my kernel will be the Hurd; that I can program my TV recording in Scheme...
There's just one other thing that's been bothering me.</voice>
Will there be an option in 7.0 to set the default RPM options to build for Pentium/PPro/PII[I]?
www.eFax.com are spammers
Actually, the Free BeOS ver 5 download is on Tuesday, March 28. I know that me and half the Geek World will be downloading the bastard OS. With my luck, we'll slashdot all the server and all the mirrors within a half an hour. Right about when I have 59 megs of the 60 meg download. ARGG!
if you guys like, you can see the future nesting site of the BeOS5 here.
There's nothing there yet.
Rami James
Pixel Pusher
Altec Lansing R&D, IL
--
rJames.org - illustration
That's exactly what we're doing in 6.2.
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We're including it in powertools.
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XFree86 4.0 didn't make it because it isn't ready for prime time.
I've posted some reasons (and an RPM download location) on a different thread here; check
this.
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XFree86 4.0 is not ready for prime time.
If you want RPMs nevertheless, get them
here.
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Wrong, by the way - Raw Hide has been around longer than the Mandrake distribution.
Yes, we are taking ideas from Mandrake - after all, they're taking ideas from us, as well. There's nothing wrong with that...
And why would you call us arrogant? If we were, would our people be caught posting on slashdot?
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piglet is the beta. You don't want to get that.
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Actually we're releasing both betas (6.2-beta) and the development tree (rawhide), so unless I'm missing something, there's no need to follow anyone on this.
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Both of these bugs are specific to the beta and can be fixed by updating to the release (or at least some packages from the release).
The KDE problem is caused by an incomplete patch in the kdebase RPM, so you'll want to update that one.
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As of 12:39pm, Aust. EST, I've counted 26 posts from him. It's probably a record for any Linux company representative (Anyone have statistics on this?) on PR duty. Just curious bero, what position do you have at RedHat?
I recently had the pleasure of meeting Robert Young, the CEO of RedHat at the Australian Linux Expo, and he said that a majority of Slashdoters held the conception that they were the M$ of the Linux world and out to profit from the OSS community. From this misconception, some might believe that RedHat had lost touch with the OpenSource Community, but as bero-rh has clearly shown us during the last two days this is far from the truth.
Being a Debian user, I hope that someone from Debian will also make such a commitment to Slashdot posts. I hope you're listening out there Vicent, Deb, and Ian! But as a past RH user, I'd like to congradulate and thank bero-rh for his work at Slashdot. You've set a fine example to Linux distributers everywhere.
On behalf of Slashdot, thank you very much bero-rh
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
Maybe someone can answer why some packages are really outdated. Examples? readline 2.2.1. We're at 4.1, and I remember someone from RedHat saying at a list that 4.0 wasn't included because it isn't binary compatible with 2.2.1. But it was before a beta for 6.0. slang 1.2.2. We're at 1.4.0, another major release. No need to mention tcl/tk 8.0.5. We're at 8.3.0. OK, they'll be all in 7.0. Now think about including IceWM, Pavuk, Qps, Kim, among others useful applications. The svgalib graphics library is now depracated and DOSEMU moved to Powertools. I wonder why. And their versioning scheme isn't accurate. As an example, lynx-2.8.3-2 means what? The final 2.8.3 wasn't released. We're still at 2.8.3dev22. IMHO unfortunately RedHat actually is focusing on newbies and including too much useless (I said popular?) applications. I may consider switching to Slackware in my next installation. But it's still a great Linux distribution.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
umm, where is the announcement for this?
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
I noticed that Bero was posting a fair amount here, so I wondered if he, or anybody else, could answer a couple of quick questions.
When will Red Hat include a general-purpose security tool or hardening script? In particular, I'm thinking of Bastille Linux, which was designed specifically for RH6.0 and 6.1. And when I saw "include" I don't mean "stick it on the CD in between XEyes and an ancient version of GNUChess, I mean, actually making users aware of it and even incorporating it into a post-install stage. Around here, Linux has gotten a really bad reputation for security, becuase RH6 had a fair number of holes and admins didn't bother to plug them.
One of the biggest differences between a Linux distribution and a commercial Unix distribution is that most of the Unices ship with very, very, very little software (how the hell do they still take up so many CDs without a frickin' copy of bash?!?). However, this does put an extra responsibility on Linux companies to provide a centralized set of tools to remove, shut down, or otherwise patch included utilities that might be hazardous to the system.
Also, when is Red Hat going to make it easier and more foolproof to install necessary fixes? I think the priority FTP access is a nice start, and a good way to add value for your serious customers. But (and I haven't used Red Hat since 6.0, please correct me where I'm wrong) do you have a tool to automatically download secure updates when they become available? And are registered customers automatically notified by email of potential security holes or show-stopping bugs, along with steps to correct them? A lot of Linux systems don't have full-time administrators who can afford to read security sites every day, but that's the kind of service that we all want to pay a Linux distributor to do for us.
Thanks a lot, and I wish you guys well with 6.2!
--JRZ
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Deprecated doesn't mean removed; it's just a recommendation not to use it anymore and a warning that it might disappear or be replaced in a future version.
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It was the latest beta at the time the CDs went into production.
And the big difference is that Qt 2.1.0 is a beta, but very stable, and XFree86 4 is called a release but it won't be anywhere near ready for quite a while.
Including Qt 2.0 wouldn't make much sense because close to nothing uses it [and the few apps that do can deal with 2.1]. Qt 2.1 can be used to run the KDE 2 betas, including interesting stuff like KOffice, so including the beta here definitely makes sense.
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There have been other reasons than payment (some technical stuff, too early releases, and some more stuff). Introducing new features often also introduces new bugs; if it had been my decision, the releases would definitely have had more testing.
Red Hat does NOT consider itself as the only Linux distribution.
I know as well as anyone else that Linux is 99% made from community work, but Mandrake taking ideas from RH is not a joke at all (and there's nothing wrong with that; anything that works both ways is good); check most spec files to see what's going on.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
the people who are going to benefit from e16 are people who aren't running gnome. the way redhat ships pretty much relies on gnome or kde running, and someone who is concerned enough to customize what wm they are running and decides against running both gnome and kde is probably capable of getting an e16 rpm. one nice thing about this is that the e15 rpm can have good gnome/kde friendly settings and the e16 rpm can be setup for more of an enlightenment only install.
try to be more open minded about decisions that are made by linux distros, they really are less political than they seem at first glance
Don't be mean or my friend Oog will smash your head
1) zoot-i386.iso
2) RedHat 6.2
And check out my site, for my web-based Gnutella client, Phreedom.Net.
-Davidu
# Hack the planet, it's important.
zoot-doc.iso 594576 Kb Fri Mar 10 00:20:00 2000
zoot-i386.iso 656134 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:39:00 2000
zoot-sparc.iso 613072 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:42:00 2000
zoot-srpms.iso 580122 Kb Thu Mar 9 18:41:00 2000
And then I realized that minutes after I announce it it will be slashdotted and my download speed will drop.
Shall I be selfish?
sgc://qbjaybnq.fbheprsbetr.arg/cho/zveebef/erqu
----
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
I'm not trying to rain in the RedHat parade here or start a distro flamewar (trust me, I've seen enough already), but Debian - the non-profit Linux distribution has had public betas for each of their distributions for years now. It is under a development tree called "frozen" as opposed to the "stable" tree and the "unstable" tree (alpha testing).
However, Debian's testing periods, aka. freezes last for quarters on ends (the current freeze "Potato" has lasted for three months already, and I still haven't seen it about to end anytime soon) just to iron out nearly every bug as compared to other distrubutions. Just check out the update trees and see how short Debian's one is! Being a Debian user myself (and past RedHat user as well), I find it very frustrating that Debian takes forever to include new versions of packages, despite the advantages of the mature and proven.
But when one thinks about it, if anyone downloads the latest source code from each programmer that contributes to distros, then you'd have a distribution more cutting edge than any distro could provide you with. The only problem is that you risk cutting your hand off with a system filled with packages so new that they collide with each other due to inital teething. No one really has time for that, so let the distros do the packaging.
It's nice to see RedHat following Debian's innitiative of releasing public betas and publicising it too. I've always admired how cutting edge RedHat is when it comes to bundling new packages, but I've never really liked downloading 80MB worth of patches for every version of a distribution 6 months after the initial release. Let's hoped RedHat's upped the ante for the other commercial releases.
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
Subject says it all - don't judge a new version by what is on a mirror that's not done downloading (the fact that it's publically accessible while in this state is a bug).
/ iso.
Once they're finished downloading, the iso will be at
ftp://metalab. unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/redhat-6.2
Also, if you don't like it, let me know WHY (not that I'd agree). We're here to fix things.
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We're not including XFree86 4.0 because it's not ready.
It doesn't compile at all on sparc (we're currently working on fixing this), doesn't compile out of the box on alpha (we've already fixed that), doesn't have all the drivers 3.3.x used to have (fixing that is a LOT of work), it doesn't have a working configuration tool yet (XFree86 -configure is a start, but it won't let you configure international keyboards and such), and there are a bit too many bugs for a stable release even in the drivers that are there.
In short, it's not even ready for Raw Hide.
I have put up RPMs at
http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimen tal though, for those who have x86es and don't like waiting.
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Outdated packages: .spec file used to build the RPMs.
In 6.x releases, one of the primary goals is to remain fully compatible with prior 6.x releases, therefore we usually won't update libraries with API and ABI changes, such as current readline, slang or tcl/tk.
Stuff that was built for 6.0 or 6.1 must be able to run on 6.2 without having to recompile, which is not possible with a change like readline 2.2.1->4.0.
The current versions are all in our internal development tree (which will become rawhide on Tuesday).
SVGALIB
Deprecated because it causes a lot of problems on some systems (try switching terminals from X to SVGALIB and vice versa on a Matrox G200 card, for example).
DOSEMU
We needed more space on the main CD for more important packages, so we moved some not-so-important packages like dosemu to powertools. This doesn't mean they aren't available or supported through bugzilla.
Versioning scheme
lynx-2.8.3-2 means it's the second version of a Red Hat Linux RPM containing a 2.8.3 release of lynx.
The -2 indicates changes to the
Other packages
Diskspace issue; some of the packages you mentioned are in powertools, I'll check whether it makes sense to add the others to powertools as well.
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