KDE 1.94 "Kandidat" released

The folks at KDE e-mailed with the news KDE 1.94 "Kandidat" has been released. It's the fifth and final beta preview of Kopernicus - which is supposed to ship in the last part of 2000. They also asked folks to use HTTP instead of FTP when downloading it. You can grab it here or read the release for different package formats.

Comments

RedHat packages ?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what about RedHat packages ? I'm waiting for them since Beta 4. KLM

Re:RedHat packages ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, the source seems to take forever to install and be impossible to uninstall (cleanly).

To uninstall:

• rm -rf /usr/local/src/kde*
• rm -rf /usr/local/qt
• rm -rf /usr/local/kde

Yes, the source takes forever to compile. On my K6-2/500 with 256 megs of RAM, it takes nearly an entire day for just QT and the base KDE packages. Bring on the debs!

Re:RedHat packages ?

[Astastrafal]

Stow's, er, nift is indeed great, but it doesn't provide you with the other benefits of a good package management system. Things like what rpm -qi package_name would provide and other niceties like dependency checking, querying of the package database to know what programs provide a certain capability or what capability a certain program provides, package-integrity verification, easy package relocation, what packages a certain package might be dependant on, and such.

But it's also true, I think, that these package management systems are more complex and thus more failure prone than compiling from source. But it's great when they do work.

Re:RedHat packages ?

[Ian Schmidt]

Beta 3's been quite stable for me. I've been quite angry about KDE not releasing RH RPMs for beta 4 or 5 - is this some kind of continued fallout over the GNOME Foundation brouhaha?

Re:RedHat packages ?

[sandler]

Quite right. RedHat RPMs never showed up for the last Beta, and due to Beta3's instability, I ended up switching to Gnome for the time being. I hate to be so dependant on RPM, but once you install RPMs, you like to stick with it. Plus, the source seems to take forever to install and be impossible to uninstall (cleanly).

Hrmpf. Packaging standards, anyone?

Re:RedHat packages ?

[sporty]

Download and compile it yourself? Not to say that rpms wouldn't be nice, but there ARE nice instructions on compiling et al....

---

Re:RedHat packages ?

[kilrogg]

Replying to myself..

They appear to be updated today, but they're still marked as 1.93.

And for the http people: http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimental/

Re:RedHat packages ?

[kilrogg]

They work in RH6.2, I'm running them right now!!!!!!!

From bero's web page: "Some experimental packages for Red Hat Linux 6.2..."

Re:RedHat packages ?

[kilrogg]

Below is a link to a redhat employee's ftp space. He makes unofficial rpms of the latest kde betas. Currently there's 1.93. Hopefully he should have 1.94 up soon (1-2 weeks, from the 1.93 dates).

ftp://people.redhat.com/bero/RPMS/

Re:RedHat packages ?

[axel from afkmn]

It's a pity. Because I like Redhat, and I REALLY like KDE2. I'm not switching to Mandrake or SuSE just to get the desktop I want.

Axel

Re:RedHat packages ?

[Xibby]

*Sometimes* makefiles have a make uninstall option. But that is a slight flaw in the nature of package managment, if there isn't an actual package, things could get messy.

I personally use stow to manage software that isn't part of the distribution. When compiling, --prefix=/usr/local/stow/package-name then build as normal. When it's done, cd to /usr/local/stow and type stow package-name, and stow creates symlinks in /usr/local. Slick. To remove, stow -D package-name, rm -rf /usr/local/stop/package-name

What's wrong with Red Hat?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't Red Hat get out KDE RPMs anymore? Apparently the only 2 poor guys at Red Hat who used to help with KDE are being swamped with lots of Other Work. Why doesn't Red Hat dedicate a developer and packager to KDE?

I'm not impressed.

Re:What's wrong with Red Hat?

[T-Ranger]

Um, why should they?

Redhat makes its money on support. Or rather they make there money gambling that people who buy support will pay for more than they need. No support questions they make lots of money. Support questions trained monkies can anwser by reading up in a database they can make money. And then they can anwser support questions with "we dont support that", there realy happy.

No while RH isnt going out of there way to screw up KDE, and they proably will include it in 7, they secretely, deep down, want it to die so they wont have to support it. They've made there decision that GNOME is going to get there $$ support, and it dose.

But clearly its in there best intrests to concesiouly lag behind on KDE updated so that RH/KDE users get frustrated and move to GNOME, so there trained monkies have a better chance of getting them off the phone quicker.

Re:What's wrong with Red Hat?

[ILO]

...and as far as we are concerned we are sick of RH's choice of poor KDE support and we are going to change distribution on our new server, most likely it will be SUSE.

Re:What's wrong with Red Hat?

[Marco Soeima]

Well that's fine. If Red Hat can screw KDE I'll just make sure I screw Red Hat and move on to another distro, namely Mandrake. It's just as easy to use and install (if not more) and comes with a bunch of great tools which aren't included in Red Hat. And those Pentium optimizations are really nice. So, if Red Hat feels that they don't have to keep their users happy, that's fine. Thankfully we do have other choices and personally I won't hesitate to use them!

Re:aRts/aRtsd

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the post below by Sproing that was rated up is completely uninformed.

Arts is now in the kdelibs packages, and provides the engine for the soundserver and several players in Kde 2. There is also an Artsbuilder which is a very advanced realtime sound synthesis machine. Artsbuilder needs a little more work yet, but looks good so far. In theory arts can be used for all types of multimedia, not just sound, but so far the emphasis is on sound.

Please note that several of the other music players that come with Kde 2 don't use arts or only use it to stream the sound from the mpeg library, etc. You get two different midi players (one based on Timidity and another on libkmid) and an mp3 player, kaiman (which uses gqmpeg skins), with Kde 2. Also the usual sound mixer, cd player, and sample player apps and sound for window events if you want that.

This may sound confusing, but while arts in in the kde libs now, it doesn't require kde, and has a C api as well as C++. As a sound system it is already used in several different players done by third parties with plugins. However, to build arts seperate from Kde might require some knowledge of the GNU configure utilities. I'm sure that arts can be lifted out of Kde if you know how.

So, when you install the kde 2 betas, or build them, you also get arts. If you are going to the arts web page to get arts independetly of kde, I don't know. It may be out of date because all that is now in kde, and you can get plenty of documentation about arts in the Kde packages. Email the author, Stefan Westerfeld (not sure about spelling) from the arts web page for more information.

Status (aRts/aRtsd) here

[Anonymous Coward]

I've just written a small status document which should about answer all the questions. I'll put that on arts-project.org soon.

Re:Does it work on Alpha, this time??

[HeUnique]

This time is should. A professor from Germany has submitted patches so it should compile flawslely (and run)

Re:It sucks

[Enahs]

/*
btw, in case someone tries to tell me to compile it... ya, you sit through compiling it. If the RPM's weren't meant to work, they shouldn't have been on the site.
*/

I did install from source, and I did wait. It's sweet. It's stable. It rocks. The RPMs were made on a somewhat nonstandard install. It's a beta. Get over it.

try the .tar.bz2 source packages

[Enahs]

they work well.

As for RPMs...hell, it's not done yet. Let RH help after KDE is stable (which it's damn close; I installed from source on a Mandrake system, and it rocks :^)

Re:It sucks

[Enahs]

When I went to get RPMs for Mandrake, I got all kinds of dependencies for RPMs that, well, don't exist anymore. Why? Becaue they're obsolete.

Why would this happen? Because RPMs ain't magic. They're cpio archives with some extra crap thrown in. When they work, they're great. When they don't, they're not so great. What causes RPMs to, well, not be so great? The RPMs don't just magically build, they have to be built by people using the software. I've read into building them and, damn, I'd rather not. :^) I don't even remember how to.

The beauty of a system like Linux and the beauty of KDEs source being open is that you can take the source and compile it. That's what you'll have to do if you want to run KDE2 *now.* The KDE2 RPMs I tried were FUBAR. When I compiled from source, everything worked great. The panel works fine, the standard utils work fine, the KOffice stuff works fine...you get the picture.

So, for now, you'll need the source. Wait until someone with a fairly stock RH system builds you some RPMs. And don't blame it on KDE...you sound like a GNOME FUDmonger. :^(

DIE GNOME FUDMONGER

[Enahs]

Clue time.

CVS is a way for developers to share code and develop for a common codebase. The CVS version of many projects isn't guaranteed to work. There may be some new code in there that someone wants to try out. Maybe it works; maybe it doesn't. But it stays there. Why? To give others the chance to *fix* it. Did you try to help fix the problem? No? Why, then, did you bother with the CVS? Why not the snapshots? Why not just stick with 1.x?

Personally, I find KDE2 to be quite a bit more developed than GNOME. The GNOME folks are going to have an uphill battle to compete with KDE2. They're going to have to lean on Eazel (a commercial venture, for chrissake) to give them something as good as Konqueror...and even then, it relies on a Bonoboized Mozilla. Ugh.

Miguel, stop posting anonymously. :^)

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[mikpos]

Except for the times it doesn't, of course.

yes, but...

[MenTaLguY]

I think that it follows the Klukluxian mode of naming.

The Klu[sic] Klux Klan devised this naming system, which should be obvious from the name above.

Hmm, this is true, but I suspect the KDE authors were not aware of the Konnotation.

Re:yes, but...

[talonyx]

Oh, it's the Ku Klux Klan? I didn't know, we don't have racism in Canada :)

And why is my post a troll now, I thought it was funny.

Re:yes, but...

[kurioszyn]

Yeah, maybe you don't but belive me ... In US, you would be crucified for your original comment.
Yeah, it is that bad. PC is still on rampage.

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[MenTaLguY]

I'm curious why they asked people to use HTTP instead of FTP to download the files. Is HTTP now considered better for file transfer than FTP?

If you're just downloading something, there are some distinct advantages to HTTP, mainly relating to setup/teardown:

• lower session setup/teardown costs
• simpler negotiation
• HTTP is stateless (no sessions to worry about)
• No requirement to negotiate secondary TCP connections
• Data retreived over HTTP is inherently typed ("Content-type:") [I use this to great advantage on my site -- "look ma, no extensions!"] ... not so much an advantage for file transfer, except that if the server's set up properly, text/binary conversion issues are magically okay
• HTTP can negotiate special encodings -- e.g. gzip compression -- transparently (wuftpd does let you request filenames with a .gz extension added for the same net effect, but it's hardly transparent, and you have to manually uncompress)

Once you get past setup/teardown, though, both HTTP and FTP are essentially shoving raw bytes down the pipe as fast as they can.

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[Jeffrey Baker]

man 1 wget

Re:konqueror!

[AArthur]

Yes, it requires you have a jre installed, as it uses that to display Java applications.

Re:Debs!

[AArthur]

Actually in KDE 2.0, there are no sleeps in the startkde script. They existed in 1.1.x, to avoid having the computer "race" ahead and load compents too early (out of correct order). They over did the sleep a little bit. KDE 2.0 uses kdeinit to start these processes, and it loads them in the correct order.

FreeBSD - bundled QT has no gif support?

[benmhall]

Hi, I installed the beta on my BSD 4.1 machine without a hitch, way to go! I have one complaint, I can't view GIF files!! By looking at QT, it seems likely that the library was built without GIF support. Does anyone else have this problem? Will there be another version of QT with GIF support compiled in? A web browser without gif's is pretty useless. Thanks for any help, Ben

Re:FreeBSD - bundled QT has no gif support? (Easy)

[benmhall]

Hi.

I went to freshports.org and downloaded the qt-2.2 port. I uncompressed it into the appropriate directory (/usr/ports/x11-toolkits) and edited the Makefile to include -gif as a configure option.

This is now compiling on my machine, and should give me GIF support. I guess I answered my own question. Hope this helps someone.

Ben

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[scrytch]

The simpler explanation may be that their ftp server is slow while their http server (and possibly squid proxy) is fast?

Re:smooth...

[mengmeng]

Um... the link is an HTTP link. Just because the server name starts with 'ftp' doesn't mean you can't use HTTP with it...

Re:konqueror!

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

Is it all the way there, or do the authors have a lot of work to do before the release,[...]

I'm still downloading the new beta, but as of the previous beta, Konqueror is very nice, but not QUITE a replacement for Netscape Navigator yet.

As of Beta 4, I still don't seem to have Java or Javascript working in Konqueror, and it doesn't yet support https:// connections. Cosmetically, it also still seems to have some minor problems with some forms and centering ("www.google.com" is a simple example - the form entry bar should be centered, but ends up over to the left).

On the other hand, it definitely renders pages faster than Navigator does, and is, on the whole, extremely nice. I am now able to use it for many (but not all) of the pages I regularly browse. Netscape plugins seem to work okay (at least, Flash does).

I'm looking forward to being able to get rid of the last closed program I regularly use (Netscape Navigator) Any Day Now. (KMail has already enabled me to go from "communicator" to the lighter "navigator" package for Netscape. Thanks, KDE team!)

Joe Sixpack is dead!

Compiler version important?

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

It may just be me, but it looks like some of the older compilers may have a problem with the sources.

The Background: I'm running a system based originally on Slackware 7.0 (with many updates - call it "Slackware 7.05" if you want), with, up until today, the original compiler (egcs 1.1.2) that came with 7.0. Trying to compile KDELIBS-1.94 bombed out in the KIO section...

To make a long story short (and to help cover up the fact that I didn't write down the error messages), apparently a utility called kcopidl (or was it mcopidl? ARGH! I knew I should have written it down...), which compiled earlier in the kdelibs package and was needed for compiling the rest of the package, was segfaulting. Fortunately, I'd already downloaded the slackware packages for gcc 2.95.2 from the contrib directory, and I uninstalled egcs and installed gcc 2.95.2. It compiles now.

Man, all those words just to say 'I had trouble compiling, too, until I updated to the current compiler'. Guess it's been a long week...
Joe Sixpack is dead!

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[Hanno]

wget does both http and ftp, and both equally simple. The use of wget is no advantage or reason to favour http.

------------------

Re:Kandidat? WTF?

[Parity]

Considering that the web/ftp-site is in Germany, well... yes, it is. ;)

Remember many of KDE's developers are European, but, more to the point, 'Kandidat' follows the general predilection of the KDE project to name everything something that starts with a 'K' even if it's a misspelling (Konquerer) or just a 'K' stuck in front of a word in the tradition of 'xblah' (KOffice).


--Parity

Re:Qt 2.2.0 vs gcc 2.95.2

[Parity]

I dunno if this works or not, but you could try to compile on a x86 machine with a target of alpha. I don't have a lot of experience cross-compiling but it looks like it's as easy as putting -b alpha into CFLAGS... but I'm probably deluding myself with wishful thinking since I need to figure out how to cross-compile to arm soon. ;o


--Parity

smooth...

[ethereal]

Of course, since they requested everyone to use HTTP, Hemos cleverly used an FTP link on the /. front page instead. Boy, do I pity their server right about now :)

Re:smooth...

[ethereal]

Insightful?

Only by comparison to my previous post...

Re:smooth...

[ethereal]

It's official: I'm a moron. Time for some more coffee...

Re:smooth...

[Skeezix]

since when is http://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/distribution/2 .0Beta5/ an ftp link? Notice the "http" designating the URL type.
----

Re:smooth...

[claar]

Best laugh I've had today! Thanks, moderators. :-)

Re:smooth...

[kurioszyn]

So em I. I thought your observation was a valid one.

Re:It sucks

[geekd]

did you install to a red hat machine?

The RPMs I found were for Mandrake (lucky for me, since that;s what I use)

Mandrake puts KDE in the "right" place (/opt/kde)

Red Hat for some stupid reason puts kde elsewhere. This has been a sore point for users of KDE on Red Hat for awhile.

I'm downloading now to install on my Thinkpad. If it's nice, I'll put it on my work machine.

-geekd

Re:It sucks

[geekd]

ok. it's installed onto my Thinkpad, under Mandrak 7.1

it DOES SUCK.

at least with the RPMs provided, it sucks ass. Many many things don't work. Many apps will not launch.

is sucks.

can I say that again? it sucks.

Maybe if I get motivated, tonight I will download the source and try to compile it myself.

-geekd

Re:Diff packages from 1.93 version?

[DGolden]

Is there any way to convince CVS to upgrade a decompressed tarball's directory tree? It's annoying when you download a release tarball, want to upgrade from CVS, and then discover that CVS doesn't want to just get changed files, and is instead trying to re-grab the entire tree...

Re:Reason to keep KDE Around...

[Surak]

Because it's just better than Gnome. More mature codebase, less flakey and more stable (at least, the non CVS versions are) than Gnome, and runs a lot faster. Plus, it's C++. Who would want to code a GUI in C?

Lots of people. And that's one reason why GNOME is becoming the "official" desktop and KDE isn't. C++ libs just don't jive with C programs. Especially for libraries, C is the lowest common denominator, and you CAN write GTK+ applications in C++, but you CAN'T write KDE/Qt applications in C.

JPop == Cheezy^3

[FatSean]

Not only is it CHHEEEEEZZZYYY but it's still stuck in the 80's. Blech. Ackkk....thppthpp...

Nasty.

Re:JPop == Cheezy^3

[Alorelith]

I would probably consider that true; however, Blind Guardian was better in the early 90's! TALES FROM THE TWILIGHT WORLD is the single most influential album ever :P

Re:JPop == Cheezy^3

[King of the World]

I hereby declare 80's music to be the best music ever made ever.

Re:FreeBSD - bundled QT has no gif support? (Easy)

[Arandir]

I submitted a bug on this to FreeBSD quite a while back. I should have known their response beforehand, but it simply was "gif licensing sucks, and we don't want our asses sued off by Unisys."

Re:konqueror!

[JabberWokky]

.
As of Beta 4, I still don't seem to have Java or Javascript working in Konqueror

Hurm. Try going to "Settings | Configure | Browser" and turn on Java and JavaScript.

I personally think it should be turned on by default. (And I'm using the 3rd beta, and it's working fine. For later releases, I assume it's still working and disabled by default. YMMV).

--
Evan

Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[EvlG]

I'm curious why they asked people to use HTTP instead of FTP to download the files. Is HTTP now considered better for file transfer than FTP?

Anyhow, congrats to KDE team for getting one step closer to the release. Your users everywhere thank you for the hard work!

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[Gothmolly]

Because HTTP uses one TCP connection, FTP uses two. It's much easier on the servers.

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[SirNorris]

I don't want to use HTTP though, netscape will invariably dissapear 1/2 way through

Re:Why HTTP instead of FTP?

[yaba]

In the company I work for we have a firewall that frequently causes problems with public ftp servers. No problems with http.

Sumo?

[ENOENT]

OK, I have a complaint against both Gnome and KDE.
I'm tired of having to download PIECES of either
one. I want something like the xemacs "sumo"
package archive, so I can just grab it and know
that I've got everything. Sure, leave the little
tarballs for folks running over a 2400 baud
connection, but I WANT IT ALL!!!

Re:Sumo?

[be-fan]

I have no clue how to write a script for CVS (I don't use it.) Isn't stuff like this things that THEY'RE supposed to do?

Re:Sumo?

[iceburn]

They have a script for cvsup here and for anonymous cvs here.

-iceburn- Sitting quietly, doing nothing. Spring comes, and the grass grows by itself.

Re:Sumo?

[ichimunki]

So use the CVS tree and write a script to iterate over the packages you want. This way updates will be a lot faster as well.

aRts/aRtsd

[schwaahed]

Does anyone know what the status of aRts/aRtsd support is in this release?

Re:aRts/aRtsd

[Spoing]

I looked around yesterday, and it seems to have vanished. If it's in there, I'd like to know where and what it's supposed to do.

The arts web site does have a small note that basically says 'arts is in KDE 2.0', and leaves it at that.

I'd like to know if it is compatable with ESD-aware apps, since there seem to be quite a few of those.

Diff packages from 1.93 version?

[mmorin]

Hi,
did anybody have the diff from the previous version? It is a pain downloading 20Mb everytime.

THX
Max

Re:Diff packages from 1.93 version?

[FranzB]

why don't you update your packages by cvsup...it's easy and fast. Look out for "cvsup" at the KDE Website cheers Franz

Re:Kan you say "Kommunist"?

[-=SteelRat=-]

I did not realise morons could post mail, well there you go!!!

Re:Kandidat? WTF?

[Tower]

Ah, for the days when ftp.cdrom.com was a PPro 200 with 2GB ram ...

--

Re:ftp instead of http..

[Wizy]

I want The State back damnit!
(i wonder how many people got this)

Re: Shut up dad.

[paRcat]

Cuz I'm Doug, and I'm outta heeeeaaar.


_______________
you may quote me

It sucks

[paRcat]

ok, I looked at the KDE2 pages and thought it'd be cool to try out. After all, I haven't used KDE since version 1, and I thought it was about time I gave it another chance.

Let me get this straight... This is the 5th BETA, and the next release will be the official one, right? Folks, if that's true, I'm afraid the public is going to be disappointed. I mean, goodness!

I downloaded all the packages listed. Installed them all. Started up KDE and was prepared to be impressed...

Hmm, that bottom bar is a bit big. That's ok, just right click and change it to "Tiny". What's this? The Main Menu and the desktop chooser buttons suddenly become question mark documents? ok.. bug, I guess.

Well, I heard that Koffice was cool. I'll try that. Click KWord. Nothing happens. Click it again. Nothing happens. Same with KSpread and KPresenter. Hmm, don't tell me the install went wrong. I used the official BETA RPM's on their site. I know, I could've compiled, but I shouldn't have to.

Well, how about Konquerer at least? Hmm.. same thing as Koffice. One last try... Click the File Manager link in the menu. Comes up at least, with the name Konquerer in the header, but all I see is gray with a Help button in the menu.

Well, now I guess it's time to dust off the good ol' rpm -e.

btw, in case someone tries to tell me to compile it... ya, you sit through compiling it. If the RPM's weren't meant to work, they shouldn't have been on the site.


_______________
you may quote me

Re:It sucks

[paRcat]

ok, please enlighten me, because I don't seem to understand...

Why exactly is it that the RPM's were built on a "nonstardard install"? Isn't the point of an RPM to be a package installed on a particular distribution? In other words, I downloaded the mandrake RPM's because I'm running mandrake on this machine. The RPM should be for use on a standard distribution.

Now, if this is BETA software, why would they put the package together in a nonstandard way? It seems to me that they're asking for problems. And it also seems they don't realize that those who try their RPM's aren't going to go through the trouble of using the final release if the RPM's didn't work. Wouldn't you agree?

I mean, I was using the thing 10 minutes and found 5 huge problems. If this was the latest Windows BETA everyone would jump on top of it, but because it's KDE it's somehow ok? Come on!

While I know compiling is always the best choice, in my case, it wasn't realistic. RPM's were the next best choice. Unfortunately, according to you, someone had the genius to make them in a "nonstandard" way. And well, that's their mistake.

I didn't like KDE two years ago, I should've known I'd have problems with it today.


_______________
you may quote me

Re:It sucks

[paRcat]

Hmm...

What I'd really be interested in is why a personal experience qualifies as flaimbait.

Oh well, maybe Meta Moderation will come to the rescue.


_______________
you may quote me

Qt 2.2.0 vs gcc 2.95.2

[jameson]

While it's definitely nice to see KDE progressing, I still can't get Qt to compile on the Alpha (internal compiler error). Turning off optimization helps, but this is definitely sub-optimal; I guess that's why there are no debian packages for it yet.
The right solution, of course, would be to fix gcc. Unfortunately, the next official gcc release is still a few months away (AFAIK), so it would have to be compiled against a (possibly patched) snapshot. Can't see a binary like this going into debian, especially since gcc development snapshots don't neccessarily produce efficient (or even working) code.

Does anyone see a way out of this dilemma, except for sitting in the corner and continuing to whine?

Re:Qt 2.2.0 vs gcc 2.95.2

[jameson]

Actually, there's a chance this might work, but it will require the proper backend to be installed first. Also, it's quite probable that this problem is directly related to the backend, i.e. it will generate an internal compiler error on ia32, too (note that the Alpha backend is quite probably written by people who know how to keep code 64 bit clean).

Still, it's a good idea. moc and ld probably won't play nicely here, but I only need it to build a few object files anyway, linking can be done later.

Re:Bleeding edge RedHat packages ?

[Johan Veenstra]

Try http://people.redhat.com/brosenkr/experimental/

Johan

Re:Packages

[Johan Veenstra]

Try http://people.redhat.com/brosenkr/experimental/

Johan

cvsup sucks

[ffatTony]

I don't because last time I tried I discovered my incredbile distaste for cvsup, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is an ugly gui application. With regular cvs I could write a little script and update my sources at a regular interval. With cvsup that functionality is gone.

Off Topic I am. Ranting I will. Yes. Woooooh.

[DebtAngel]

It seems similar to the Japanizing of cartoons and music.

If only that were true. JPop is still way better than wussy American Pop or boring American dance (eight notes, over and over, and no electric guitar - *yawn*).

Oh, since people like talking to moderators, I will too: I have a +1 bonus, and I didn't use it. Consider this post already modded down. Please and thank you.

Re:Their choice of names?

[sheckard]

Kanything Kstarting Kwith KA 'K'...

Re:konqueror!

[cerulean]

....Konqueror will [my emphasis] support the full gamut of current Internet technologies, including JavaScript, Java®, HTML 4.0, CSS-2 (Cascading Style Sheets), SSL (Secure Socket Layer for secure communications) and Netscape Communicator® plug-ins (for playing FlashTM, RealAudioTM, RealVideoTM and similar technologies). In addition, Konqueror's network transparency offers seamless support for browsing Linux® NFS shares, Windows® SMB shares, HTTP pages, FTP directories as well as any other protocol for which a KIO plug-in is available.

Having not used Konqueror myself, I am curious as to where it currently stands on these claims. Can anyone speak to just how fully/incompletely compliant it is to the specs for HTML 4.0, CSS-2, etc? Is it all the way there, or do the authors have a lot of work to do before the release, or will they have to change the language to say "Konqueror will have nearly complete support for..."?

helix-gnome?

[cerulean]

if it works for you, the helix-gnome install process is a joyous wonder to behold, and easy to boot. it is especially great over a fast network connection, but you can even do it over a modem over several nights-- the installer program stores the packages you select somewhere in /tmp until it has all of the ones you selected. once you finally get all the packages, then it installs fine. helix-gnome is pretty cool if you ask me.

Re:helix-gnome?

[cerulean]

zoom 56k.... but with a poor isp, and not always wanting to leave the modem running overnight. all told, it probably took me 10 hours, longer than it should have. now that I have 768k SDSL, life is much nicer. anyway, we agree that helix-gnome is doable witha modem.

Re:Their choice of names?

[talonyx]

I think that it follows the Klukluxian mode of naming.

The Klu Klux Klan devised this naming system, which should be obvious from the name above.

Obviously, African-Americans prefer Gnome.

I don't know if midgets do or not though.

I think African-American midgets probably just use Windowmaker.

Re:Their choice of names?

[homoted]

What konnection do the KDE team have with the Ku Klux Klan?

Re:Kandidat? WTF?

[muyThaiBxr]

it's not a quad xeon... it's a single xeon

Re:How long is a "part"?

[kalifa]

The page mentions "release of KDE 2.0 ("Kopernicus") scheduled for early-fourth quarter 2000."

Which probably means sometimes between October, 1st and november, 15th.

Re:konqueror!

[FranzB]

css1 is already supported with css2 on the way, html 4 is supported as is to a great extend ecma-script (aka javascript) ssl still got some issues java works fine (uses your installed jdk) netscape plug-ins should also work (but I did not try them because there's motif (lesstif) needed) I'm using konqueror for my everyday webbrowsing and it's quite stable. (crashed two times in one month - compare that to netscape/mozilla) cheers Franz

konqueror!

[FranzB]

Has anyone here read the specs for konqueror the kde browser and filemanager? It's really awesome! I say thanks to all the developers of KDE2! You can't imagine how great my relief is to finally have a decent internet browser on my linux desktop. No more restarting netscape, no more waiting for mozilla menus to come up.... Again THANK YOU KDE TEAM! cheers

Re:konqueror!

[ichimunki]

I second this heartily. KDE2, Konqueror and KOffice, are really doing a great job of blending the best ideas from lots of other packages, without just being a patched together clone of those ideas. The interface is exceptionally clean and easy to use. The whole quickly becomes more than the sum of its parts. KDE2 and associated apps make me very excited about using Linux for desktop applications-- especially coming from a Mac background and the bizarre direction Apple is going with their GUI.

Re:konqueror!

[King of the World]

A silly question, but does it come with Java or does it require it to already be on your system?

Re:konqueror!

[jazz101]

Konqueror does indeed support SSL now. It was recently added and is in Beta 5. I have been doing my ETrade with Konqueror the last few days... Look for the lock icon is you are in SSL mode.

Re:Debs!

[LinuxElite]

Look at the startkde script. I has sleeps in there that slow down the startup. This script can be tuned to make KDE start much faster.

KDE to ??BECOME?? more popular than gnome???

[packman]

If KDE2 becomes more popular than GNOME, I'd either be surprised or apathetic.

Right now, KDE is mostly used in europe and asia(japan). In the US, gnome is more popular than KDE, simply because Redhat is one of the few distributions who install Gnome as default, and it is the most used distribution in the states. But the US isn't the entire world you know...

I live in Belgium, and I am a member of tina, a local Linux and other alternative OS's users group
I can tell you KDE is far more used than Gnome. The few who have Redhad installed, run Gnome, most of the rest just tried it, but stayed with KDE. I switch windomanagers a lot, I tried Gnome, but found it sometimes confising (and at that time unstable). I just couldn't get a more recent verion of gnome working on my slackware, so I stick with KDE. I just hope it is really much faster and more memory efficient than 1.x, now most applications don't use corba anymore, because that was KDE's weak spot, and that's why I still run windowmaker a lot.

GOOD WORK KDE TEAM, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

containing...

[krich]

...the recently GPLed Qt-2.2.0

Re:DIE GNOME FUDMONGER - Last post...

[gloth]

I hope this doesn't come across as flamebait, but... if you're not capable of getting the sources to compile, are you really sure you have what it takes to work on stuff like this?

Re:How long is a "part"?

[zerovoid]

I remember when the first KDE 2 beta was released that they released a schedule of release dates. So far it seems like they've hit everyone one, and if I remember correctly, the scheduled release for KDE 2 final was October 15th. Lets just hope it's around there and not Christmas:) -zerovoid

Re:How long is a "part"?

[axel from afkmn]

"Last part" is one of those vague terms that can be precisely defined mathematically. "Last part" means at a time E such that

Lim[t->(end of the year)] (Mean(expected time E of release)/(End of the year - t)) = 0

Or maybe I'm spending a little bit too much time studying for my algorithms class. ok bye.

Axel

I like ftp the best

[sips]

An ftp client like ncftp works quite well and you can interrupt the download dozens of times and then come back a week later and it still works. Theoretically http 1.1 has a keepalive facility and you can download chunks of data. However this is not always the case. In the case of slashdot's method of data transmission you usually cannot get large ammounts of comments on a slow conneciton because it dies before you finish.

Re:User Agent Spoofing, Finally!

[danimo]

It was already implemented in 1.93, but the new config dialog makes the whole thing more comfortable.

Kandidat? WTF?

[AFCArchvile]

Is this the Germanizing of Linux? It seems similar to the Japanizing of cartoons and music. Oh well, now on to relevant questions.

Hopefully the KFM is faster than a crawl. If KDE2 becomes more popular than GNOME, I'd either be surprised or apathetic. Now why this "HTTP only"? Are their FTP servers too wussy to handle high bandwidth? I remember when Counter-Strike 7 was released; the only server that could sustain a transfer rate faster than 10K per second was ftp.cdrom.com (Quad Xeon 500 with 4GB of RAM and 0.5 TB of RAID 5 running FreeBSD - YEAH!). I downloaded with GetRight so I could double up at 22.2K per second. Terrorists Win!

Re:Then what's the point of Xeon?

[AFCArchvile]

The only benefit that a single Xeon has over a single P3 is the larger cache and perhaps other things. Xeons were designed for high-quantity SMP. Thus, the reason why I assumed at least 4-way.

The compile isn't that bad.

[Sachs]

They use the standard configure/mame all/make install. Just write a little shell script to compile all the packages. Switch to Virtual Console 6, set everything to run with maximum niceness, and let er rip. Then just go back to your desktop while waiting for everything to compile and pretend the beta comes out tommorow.

Or, get SuSE. You can't beat those crazy German engineers. Every RPM works every time for me.



meept!

Debs!

[Xibby]

Looks like TDYC allready has it packed up and ready for apt. The apt source is:
deb ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian unstable kde2

Do an apt-get update, then apt-get install task-kde and you're ready to go.

Enjoy. I've been running the kooldown release awile now, so far I like it. Startup is a bit slower than GNOME though. Wonder if that's changed in the latest version...