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Nokia's $400 Linux Terminal For The Masses
acoopersmith writes: "In the San Jose Mercury News coverage of the recent Consumer Electronics Show was this article about the new Nokia "Media Terminal" - a device that's designed as a cross between a TiVo and a WebTV, but which is really a Linux PC, including USB& FireWire ports for attaching additional storage, scanners, and printers, and other expansion capabilities. Has the hacker-friendly "appliance" finally arrived?"
This "appliance" has one very nice benefit that shouldn't be overlooked. The TV display output allows for a much larger picture at no additional cost to most consumers. Given, there is a large tradeoff in image quality compared to a computer monitor, but the people who fit the market for a product like this will appreciate it - especially if the device will be used like an actual PC. The TV display should be a real selling point for Nokia. Not only does it save lots of money, but many elderly folks have a hard time even with large monitors.
Lowering the cost of modern PC technology allows a new set of consumers to enjoy it. I'm glad Nokia made a provision that may better cater to their needs.
WebTV sucks becaue it involves a shitty ISP (now MSN if I am not confused by the recent series of buyouts) and TiVO runs Linux so it is better than beer :)
I hope you realize that the TV/Computer merge will allow corporations to control your use of the content they send you. You have atv episode you want to record to watch later? pay a subscription. you want to play movies made by non-union countries? sorry. You want to record a movie? sorry, no. whats that you want to play music with your entertainment system thats not produced in the "approved" format? no, and you must be a crook. this will be our grand childrens future.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I wonder which is the bigger challange... installing linux on a tv box designed to run windoze, or to install windoze on a tv box designed to run linux?
Are you kidding? Sometimes it's tough enough trying to install windoze on a box designed to run windoze! =)Has anyone noticed that the United States is glaringly absent from the selection list?
For $400?...forget that, I'd rather buy a linux COMPUTER for that pricetag!
Your Momma's so fat she makes emacs look like nano!
Well, consider Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. While entertainment certainly doesn't come into play with physiological and safety needs (your examples of the homeless person and the earthquake victim, respectively,) once one reaches the third and subsequent level of the hierarchy, the value of entertainment can be quite high. Bear with me on this one.
Consider, for a moment, that your basic physiological and safety needs are met. You live in a permanent domicile, you have a steady job, and you are in no forseeable danger of losing your physiological or safety needs. Thus, you are free to pursue the remaining three needs: Love/Affection/Belongingness, Esteem, and Self-Actualization needs. For various reasons, not many people ever succeed in pursuing all three of the above. Some people manage to find love, but never chase their dreams and opportunities. Others have powerful personalities and vast success, but lack anyone to share this with. Even more people live day to day, alone, without achievement or pride, going through the motions of life.
I see entertainment as a means of filling these gaps. People who couldn't run a mile without collapsing regularly watch professional sports, absorbing the abilites of the atheletes in place of their own inadequacies. People watch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and go window shopping to fill percieved shortcomings in their own career achievements. People purchase self-affirming Chicken-Soup-style books and buy into things like the Spice Girls' "Girl Power" to artificially bolster their own lacking self-esteem. All of the above are forms of entertainment; entertainment allows us to feel better about who we are.
In addition to making us feel better about who we are, though, entertainment can provide a very real impetus for self-improvement. Kids watch Michael Jordan play basketball and set themselves to become professional atheletes. Some even succeed; many others gain a valuable appreciation for physical conditioning and personal health that lasts their entire lives. People go to the theater, the opera, or the films to introduce new thoughts to their minds, and to help themselves grow intellectually. People visit singles bars and clubs searching for friendship and love; quite often, they find it. Entertainment, beyond being a simple diversion, becomes the very means for delving deeper into these last three levels of need.
Computer entertainment brings exciting new possibilites. One can play Quake with people you've known for years but never met in person. One becomes capable of flying, space exploration, and gravity-defying acrobatics without having to leave one's seat. One can even make a fulfilling career out of computer entertainment, acting as a developer, guide, advice columnist, commentator, or any number of things. Computer entertainment provides a degree and depth of interaction that surpasses all other forms of entertainment except face-to-face interaction with another human being.
Yes, the applications for computers are wide-ranging, but rarely carry much personal importance for the user. It's wonderful to have a fully-geatured word processor, powerful database, and security services. But these things have little immediate value to the individual user, even if you use them every day for work. Unless your self-actualization needs are met by them (for example, your life's work is designing and developing screamingly fast database servers, and you take great pride in what you do,) it's not as important to you as doing something entertaining. Like playing Solitare or Minesweeper, or finally fragging that really good player in Norway (and getting "whoa, nice shot" in return.)
This, in my opinion, is why entertainment-based computing devices will play a huge role in the future of computing. I'm good with SQL and I make a living off coding web sites, but I enjoy picking people off from 1 km with the Sniper Rifle in Tribes. I like coding, but it's what pays the bills. (Mind you, I've been spending a lot more time running around the city with my wife than gaming, but hey, that's more fun to me right now.)
After you've fulfilled the basics of survival and are living a relatively safe life, entertainment becomes quite valuable. It helps you forget your own shortcomings, while simultaneously providing the opportunity to learn how to overcome them.
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
it's in my head
Look up "Amusing ourselves to Death" a book by Neil Postman
Ever thought we may end up like Wells' Eloi?
Or as an enslaved, mindless, soma phreak like in Huxley's Brave New World? (the McCarthy inspired Anti-Communist undertones will DEFINATLEY not be part of that future)
More like a quote in a book I read recently (Fawcett's Cambodia: A Book for People Who Find Television Too Slow... to quote (loosely) He went on for a few pages about how "all through time 'would-be' oppressors/tyrants/dictators/kings/priests/etc have tried to enslave the 'average' person. And every time he learns that a slave's output (production) is lower - that the level of oppression is inversely proportional to his output. 'Slaves' will always find a way to do little work - while just doing enough to keep themselves from being killed (you cant kill all your slaves for poor performance)" He then later went on to say "God help us if someone finds a way to prove history untrue - meaning a way to make enslaved people want to work harder". When he said that I literally shuddered - I thought " Oh Crap - I think they have.".
When I look around at what all our discoveries, technology and culture has 'culminated' to - and what our 'direction' and goals (which we really have none) it was like being kicked in the chest - I spent 3 days relating this too friends and family (who mostly think Im a lunatic ("Your too serious, relax, take it easy" is commonly their reply))
Think about the way we relate to one another (through popular media), the consumerism, the blindly shallow culture (there is virtually nothing outside of 'pop' culture), and the way that we encourage and reward this behavior. That anything outside of entertaining ourselves and indulging ourselves has been forgotten. Im not suggesting we all have to live like martyrs and such, but it looks like we've become too complacent to adjust our culture to respond to anything of any real value...
Am I really supposed to give a fucking shit about Tommy Hilfiger, Monica Lewinsky, Jim Carrey's love life, or what Leonardo Decaprio eats for breakfast?
And you don't suspect the MS paperclip is meant to entertain? I feel that to an extent, he is right. For all those that can afford it, which is what the market targets, entertainment is the driving force. Entertainment is what sells. I don't think the paper clip is a selling point, but I actually think its kinda cute and quite useful when you have zero clue what yer doing.
Didn't the ad say you could look at *any* website? That's false advertising.
I didn't pay for my operating system either
Well, Nokia is finish but the terminal is Swedish! It is developed mainly in Linköping, Sweden by Nokia Home Communications. The Linux is in the bottom Red Hat. The box is Open Source with restrictions to the lowest parts of the plattform and the Nokia branded Navibars(TM) navigation system. There will be a developer site up and running hopefully whitin the month. The idea with the site is to let anyone get hold of the info to get started with developing for the box. Macromedia is not a file format or a communication format but a company responible for a couple of web techniques called Flash and Shockwave.
What's the chance of me (or someone) doing something like this on their own (ie to create something like a TiVo or ReplayTV or whatever they call them boxes that record and playback TV on a hard disk)? My video's broke and I don't want to buy another one (since our local video store closed anyway). I just want to record regular programs (only a few hours a week) and play them back (skipping the adds) at my convenience! What sort of components could I get of the shelf and how much would it roughy cost? For example, TV tuner and video capture and playback ...
PC - how fast, how much memory, how big hard disk?
OS - could a standard Linux release hack it?
SW - what about an app? (an "MP3 player" 4 video)
Sure would be nice to be able to play DVDs (and record them ie the new Pioneer drive), as well as store digital pics and MP3 music. My guess is this is going to be the killer app / system of this decade!
Just an idea (I really don't want to buy a video)
Cheers,
Ashley.
I agree with much of what you're saying, but the point of the first paragraph was to show that without the requirements of our basic needs (i.e. the secretary working so she can eat and sleep comfortably) we can't even have the entertainment.
As such, the utilitarian purposes aren't going away at all. And while entertainment focused items may be added to a product, I don't think they come anywhere near representing a "new paradigm" for computing. It's obvious that entertaiment sells more stuff, but you can't play tribes without being able to code on your machine to pay those bills. This is the way it's been for a very long time, and it will continue to be so. Computing is too broad to be labeled as mainly for entertainment when it's also used for so many other things. This plurality isn't changing anytime soon, and this device doesn't represent any big new shifts in thinking.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Uhh, no. And yes, I know you were joking.
It is an interesting parallel for sure, and I think it will have played at least a subconscious role for the Nokia developers, but there is a common cause for this: the Finnish government has been pursuing an active policy to promote the tech industry to make Finland less dependent on its main economic driving forces: forestry and tourism. The main result is that Finland is now one of the countries with the highest densities of mobile phones, and one country where this technology is being moved to new and interesting uses, such as safe electronic payment schemes. This is also the reason why Nokia, a once classic industrial conglomerate switched to communications technology somewhere in the early nineties
On another note: Nokia is one of those companies that balances on the fine line between true innovation and smart marketing. I have used their Communicator phone/PDA as my primary mail client for some time, and despite it's rateher unstable OS it is a joy to use. I have nothing but the highest regard for Nokia's technical accomplishments, and will definitely look into buying one of these Media Terminals as a terminal for my flatmate, who currently has to share my computer with me for the occasional letter and web browsing.
Mart
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
www.nokia.com is temporarily off-line for scheduled maintenance.
www.nokia.com will return by Thursday evening, January 18 2001. (GMT)
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Finally, computers and TV's are starting to merge. My grandkids will never know they were ever two seperate boxes. With things like http://www.packetcable.com/ around the corner it looks like Linux has a head start on Microsoft. Hopefully, MS keeps pushing bloated, bug-ridden Wince so that Linux will rule the next century.
The new Media Terminal platform is technologically based on open standards and components such as HTML, JavaScript, DVB, MHP, Linux, Mozilla, and X86 PC architecture.
Sounds to me like a rousing game of "how many buzzwords can we fit into a press paragraph"? But seriously, just because a product is based on Linux doesn't necessarily mean the final product will only run Linux.
I mean, hell, I'm sure some elements of Windows 2000 (process ID's, killing things in the task manager, etc.) were borrowed from traditional UNIX examples and even modern-day Linux and FreeBSD code (you don't think Microsoft has taken a gander at most of the free code by now? Yeah right). But Windows 2000, even if it's "based" in a theoretical UNIX world, is still Windows reality (one of the best Windows I've seen Microsoft produce, but a Windows reality just the same).
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Celeron 366 , 32 - 64 Megs of ram.... of course they are going to choose linux, and they can re-write what they way.... my question is what freaking distro did they use ? and how open is their own software ? Seems like a good way to get good bang for your buck, now can someone please tell me what ftp/ssh/http capabilities does this thing have ? Hahah, lets over clock the processor, throw in more memory and be able to broadcast a tv feed from it! now thats a good way to use this puppy...
Non-Deterministic Finite Automata
In the meantime, though, my question is: Who's going to be the first person to make a hoot kit available? (drivers and software to make the machine fully functional)
(In case you're wondering, I made up the name 'hoot kit'. The etymology should be obvious)
`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
That's got to be the stupidest piece of journalism I've seem for a while. There were so many errors and innacuracies, I had to check the by-line wasn't one of the Slasdot crew :-)
I guess the challange now is to try and hack windoze onto it. How dare those corporate fat cats tell me what os to run on my machine :)
I wonder which is the bigger challange... installing linux on a tv box designed to run windoze, or to install windoze on a tv box designed to run linux?
True, entertainment may be escapism, but do you think that escapism represents the new paradigm of computing? Or new anything. I doubt it, since you mentioned the Depression. And the fact is, people still have those other things that they are escaping weighing them down, otherwise known as The Real World. The Real World isn't going away soon, and entertainment isn't going to wholly take over in people's minds. There's no shift here, just a reiteration.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
All right, I was wrong. Fair enough :-)
The point isn't really how good the game is, it's the spirit of the thing, and if they're releasing it then that's fantastic. Maybe there'll be some nice little games that'll come out at some point though.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
I consider entertainment as more of a catalyst than an element in the pursuit of higher needs.
Yes, I mean, I can see that writers, artists, songwriters, etc. want to put some depth, meaning, substance to their work. A message, as well as just the pleasure of dancing around the room. And the greater the artist, the higher the message (one way of 'measuring' art).
Most of Hollywood isn't Shakespear, but even something like The Matrix contained some esoteric, philosophical questions within the action adventure. Or a personal favourite, Babylon 5 (some people will think it lame), with its endless "Who are you?" and "What do you want?". It is said that Sri Ramana Maharshi, reputedly one of the greatest spiritual teachers, gained ultimate non-dual enlightenment by asking deeply "Who am I?"
So through our art (and hence entertainment), things trickle through. And if nothing else, then what the hell, at least I'll have spent a few hours with the girlfriend/wife watching t.v. -- as you say.
BTW, as you are interested in Maslow and are open to ideas of hierarchies, have you heard of Spiral Dynamics? IANAP (I Am Not A Psychologist), but I gather it's a very useful system for understanding culture and people -- it was used to help the different factions in South Africa, who held very different values, come together to talk, and move forward.
This could provide rather humorous results when we find out how secure this box really is. Do we really need a couple thousand of these being 0wn3d by 3l33t h4x04 d00dz to be used for DDoS attacks?
Evening News: This evening we are recieving reports that the internet is being brought to it's knee's by a set top box called "Trojan Horse", this is all due in part to it's OS Linux. Microsoft has announced that they have a patch available for customers who own a "Trojan Horse" that will replace Linux with Windows Trojan version. This is a minor upgrade from Windows 98.
Nokia's firewall's are not linux based, they
are freebsd based (2.2.5 or thereabouts, based).
Webramp, which nokia recently bought, is however
linux based (and also runs checkpoint).
Note the date. It seems like Nokia just waited for 2.4 to condense.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
I don't think it runs a Unix. Some people have been working on reverse engenering it's filesystem though. I don't think they have gotten as far as the DISHPlayer 7000 folks though.
I hope you were being sarcastic with that crack about the 'Hacker-friendly yadad... finally here!! Matt
"I split coffee all over my wife's nightie
what the heck is a 'hoot kit' ?
My 3210 phone survived two hours in the washing machine. I've been liking Nokia hardware since... :-)
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Hmmm.... It's a lean, mean, Penguin grillin' machine!
Theoretically, even though it runs Linux, Nokia's hardware license/service contract could be restrictive. GNU Experts: How does the GPL effect hardware and service restrictions?
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
> 1. More support for Linux USB devices across the board if this grill, er applicance gets popular.
This could be good. As long as Nokia releases those drivers.
> 2. People will start to trust Linux. I think that is one of the main things holding Linux back.
If it's known that Linux runs this thing, then yes.
> 3. More people in Linux users groups.
I doubt this will come true. Most of the users of this device won't know or care that Linux is running it. The hacker community is a small percentage of the people that would use this. How many people has the TiVo brought to user groups?
> 4. They may use this to push HDTV,
Not sure what the connection is here?
> 5. Finally we will be able to trade our favorite sitcom episodes.
This would defiantly turn into a negative. The networks would make sure of that. This is one of the stumbling blocks for DTV.
> 6. Create jobs for Linux Gurus.
See answer to 3 above.
Kinda like a root kit, but it's intended to give your box full functionality.
What a hoot!
`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Ask yourself a question. What is the dominant mode at the beginning of the 21'st century? I would say it is entertainment. Entertainment is the lynchpin of all forms of Human interaction and media these days, from business meetings using projectors and whizz bang graphics to our schools, where children are taught in an entertaining fashion as teachers realise their young minds are used to the compleity and speed of television. Entertainment is what our century will be all about, whether it be in business, education, or government. People in earlier centuries may have strove to be free, or to be educated, or to be saved, but in ours we merely want to be entertained. They were scared of being damned or killed. We are scared of being bored.
Now, the point about this with regard to these new Hacker friendly appliances is that we can see this trend in action. Everything must be entertaining. It is no longer good enough to have a PDP10, with wires sticking out everywhere designed specially for the real hacker. The 21st century hacker must also be entertained.
This is part of a wider trend. It is no longer good enough for a computer OS and GUI to be easy to use - that is 90's and passe. It must be intrinsically entertaining, like Enlightenment is, a little. These new appliances are the first wave of the new paradigm of 21st century computing. We had better get used to it.
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
It is vapor, but they've promised it for the nordic market some time during the spring, so we'll know in not too long how vapor it is.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
So are these custom drivers or what? And if so, how about giving a bit back to the community that allowed Nokia to sell the device for $400 instead of $495 (cost of hardware vs. hardware + windows license)?
Ok, with a 20Gb hard disk the one question I couldn't see the answer to was what sort of video codecs does it support, are they proprietory and where's the DVD (for more buzzwords). The one area linux could use corporate support in is in Video systems (to make this work it REALLY should play whatever video files people will be grabbing from their provider or online). How can this work in the current legal quagmire or is this finally a company from outside the US saying F*ck your stupid US IP laws.... what you going do?
And as no-one else has said it yet......Hmmmmmm a Beowolf cluster of these
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
>Hackers aren't going to be buying these systems
1 -15-007-20-NW-EM
Why? Roughly one day before this came out on slashdot, linuxtoday has a link to a commentary on this "media box" at http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-0
For US$400 per, I'd say it will make a difference when I use it for space-saving (and cool looking reasons) and hence money-saving reasons when I use it for my customers' co-location needs. Imagine stacking a few of these within a half-rack contract space, for the price of a half-rack.
regards,
Rostov
--9102--
It fits my prediction that boxes with Linux pre-installed will get non-geeks past the 'linux is hard to use' FUD. Things like set-top boxes may actually turn out to be the Linux "killer app" that people have been looking for. Between the Nokia box and hoot kits, we've got it made for introducing users to the power and freedom of Linux.
`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
before someone can post a chain from Nokia's own site to a site that describes how to circumnavigate their "Parental Controls" (or just plain hack em out)
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
nokia took one hard look @ the Set top box market and said thats easy we spend 3 years doing a phone dev work and this will take 1
they then looked for buyers what do they want ?
your oracle streaming server
your SGI media server
down to that little box in the hotel / liveing room
they then want to add web browseing and being able to send your home movies
now which OS can do this ?
Wind nokia's useal partner turned their nose up and said buy a stack from others you dont need an OS and then some ENGINEERS had their say I'll wager + linux has become a buzz word so managment must have taken notice
nice to see hope it gets a fair few CONTRACTS and makes nokia oodles of money
regards
john jones
At least not until it's too late. :-)
If this thing combines the best features of VCRs and computers, doesn't require any kind of monthly subscription fee, and keeps getting better and more versatile all the time for free because of stuff Linux hackers create for it, then the only thing keeping it from being nearly perfect will be the proprietary case and form factor (can't stack anything on top of it).
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I just was wondering. I mean, I've got 400 shares of Nokia, but I thought I'd point out that you are paying a premium for the Nokia name on the box. Not that the premium doesn't mean it isn't a quality box, just that there might be cheaper versions ...
Will in Seattle
The PC I'm using right now only has two slots and it has 256 megs.
Yeah, but the spec says 32 to 64 Meg, so obviously it's hardwired for 32 Meg chips.
Will in Seattle
Do you really think so? I don't imagine people will even KNOW this thing is running Linux--so what's it to them? Just another box that does cool things. Depending on the interface, maybe it will look different that Windows, but heck, it's not a regular computer (to them). From the looks of the article, this isn't a box blazing the words "revolutionary operating system that blows Windows away that you probably haven't used before inside!" It's just a cheap way to play MP3s, get online, etc. Except for guys like us, who already are familiar with, understand the benefits of, and utilize Linux regularly, I don't think people will know any better.
"I say consider this day seized!" -Hobbes
"Tomorrow we'll seize the day and throttle it!" -Calvin
but that doesn't mean it's not possible, just difficult
.oO0Oo.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
And Nokia engineers actually contributed to the linux1394 mailing list quite a bit when I was reading it (from the sidelines) last summer. It was wierd. There was all this back and forth about bugs and development from the usual hardworking academics and hobbyists, then suddenly there is an email from a guy from Nokia discussing bugs in the code, then a whole mini exchange about giving bugfixes back or not, and the requirements of the GPL. I didn't stick with the mailing list enough to see the result, but Nokia was playing fair, it seemed to me.
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
The game IS GPL. But if you can hold yer breath a wee bit longer it will also be finished. And don't get yer hopes up to high cuz its a Opposite game with a few animations and stuff to be used as a example of gameprogramming (mainly to apprentize game programmers but...) Don't be so quick to dismiss big corps as money grabbing tight assed S.O.Bs as generic american computer corps tend to be ;-)
With the macrovision complient, that means you can or cannot record dvds onto it ? :)
Forget about world hunger, mid-eastern holy wars and homeless people, we need mass acceptence of the NET!
/rudeness off
Seriously, there are a huge number of people that just aren't interested in the Internet. Now, I'm not one of those people that thinks we should eliminate the desire to gain Internet access if it exists, but I don't really think that people are denying themselves the greatest thing humanity has ever created if they aren't on the Internet as often as possible. Some people just don't care one way or another. And if they aren't actively seeking Internet access, then I promise you that they are not going to be impressed when someone comes out with a "cheap" way to get online. Trust me, if they won't purchase the pay 500 get 400 back when you sign up for MSN computers at Office Max and Best Buy (and everywhere else) then they probably aren't going to plunk down the $400 that it would cost for this toy.
Now, I do expect Internet access to continually become more common place as time goes on. But I don't think there is any pressing need to get every person in the world attached to the Internet in some fashion. And apparently there are a large number of people that agree. Older people shrug over it, and many younger people that aren't into computers couldn't care less.
As to the panic that occassionally strikes when it is seen that Internet growth is slowing, it's not worth the panic it causes. The Internet isn't going to disappear because of a period of slow growth. Slow growth is still growth. Our economy is in a correctionary period right now. With the past few years of an ever increasing vitality, there was the necissity to either slow things a bit or brace for the inevitable crash. The growth of Internet access is in the same type of period right now. It isn't going to die if the people that are left without Internet access just shrug it off. Like it or not, it's here to stay. It's become too much of a money maker to just disappear. Some of the methods of making money over the Internet need to change, evolve and adapt because there aren't as many clueless people jumping on every day willing to fork over large sums of cash easily, but so what? The changes will come, the Internet will grow more slowly (and probably become a stronger entity for the slow down) and the world will go on.
The problem that you describe is only a problem for companies that see people out their not forking over $20-$40 a month for Internet access and are constantly asking why. The answer is simple. Some of those people just don't care. Some of those people have better things to do with their time than post to slashdot and read online trash mags. And some of them are comletely and totally sick of hearing all the hype about the Internet and are not going to get more interested with people trying to shove it down their throat.
The Internet is a great tool. Just as the computers that were originally all that was used to access it. But that's all it is. It is not the cure for all evils in the world. And until people start getting realistic about its benefits and even its deficiencies (heaven forbid!) we are not going to see it become as ubiquitous as the telephone.
The masses couldn't care less if net access is cheap. They already have cheap telephone service, and cheap television service and cheap access to radio. Adding one more corporate advertising machine into the mix isn't really all that exciting a prospect for some households. And without a real understanding of what the Internet is and how it can be used to gather information, that's all that it is to those people.
I don't see the lack of mass acceptance as a huge deal. It's only natural. Acceptance will come with time. And through time the Internet itself will get better, faster, and hopefully more full of useful information. It just seems silly to say that it is a problem that the entire world population hasn't embraced the Internet. Again I say, SO WHAT!? It's just a tool. Do people get upset when tribes in Africa don't have the latest set of Sears Craftsman tools?....
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You shouldn't expect something back all the time. Sure, it's a ideal and plesant thought but it's not a practical one. Sticking to such thoughts will only hurt linux.
Playing devil's adovcate...
What makes Linux cool (popularly usable) to the masses? A Web appliance whose software is mostly open source and free
How many users that make up "the masses" will actually ponder the software license as part of their purchase decision? Hackers will, sure, but the masses aren't hackers.
whose programmers are somewhat accessible/responsible to user feedback
Which programmers? Nokia or the Linux/Mozilla people?
and the ability to upgrade and update without repeatedly paying fees and buying licenses
I don't know any set top box maker that charges for software updates. You generally have to pay for the ISP, or in the case of Tivo, the programming service. But software updates are free last time I checked.
Overall, I think this is probably step in the right direction. But I think the concept needs some more focus. Right now, it sounds as if Nokia is positioning it as an "everything" box, which makes it very hard to market (except on the Home Shopping Network). You need to define boundaries of the product. You need to define who you think will buy it. And it's not exactly cheap. $400 for a 366 Celeron?
Maybe I'll be a bit less skeptical if they had some screenshots of the UI.
- Scott
--
Scott Stevenson
WildTofu
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I don't think this will really bring the Linux name to the front of "cool." It's for regular, home people who don't give a damn about the OS it runs, so long as they can get at their web page and their email. The same way AOL subscribers don't care what browser is in their AOL program, so long as it works, no one will care that it's Linux in this thing except us /. geeks :-)
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
How will this hurt Linux? Linux was built on sharing and cooperation, the very same "ideal and pleasant" thoughts that you find impractical.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Now just what the hack is "MACROMEDIA"? Is it some sort of file format, transport protocol or something with holes in it... Perhaps the user interface is written with Director?
And don't forget, just because it runs Linux doesn't mean it is automatically cheap or hackable. Nokia can charge you whatever they want and "hack prove" it.
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Codeala - Just another mindless drone
okay, I have to admit here I have no idea what people want these boxes for, I see a lot of people wishing for certain hardware features and cursing those who designed them.
do slashdotters really want a hackable appliance? because if they do I'd say there is probably a market for one.
if there is a market for one, why isn't anyone making one? is it ignorance, or is it in the best interests to make machines difficult to hack?
No one needed the car, the telephone, or the aeroplane either. That never stopped everyone gaining access to these facilities, and it never stopped world hunger everywhere.
If I had said that everyone needs net access then your comments might have had some weight, but I was commenting on the strategies of the companies in this "lovely" capitalist planet of ours ability to generate money.
It really does look silly to flame someone for something they never even said, you know.
As to your comments on rebated PCs, we in the UK have happily embraced cheap mobile phones based on subscribing for a year at a time to get handsets for next to nothing, so who is to say the same model will not work with net access, considering the company marketing it is one of the biggest, most well known brands in Europe whos phones we all use!
How much of a premium are we paying for the brand name? Will this be better than something found on the street in Taiwan, or just be a slightly more expensive version with better tech support?
Will in Seattle
Celeron 366 , 32 - 64 Megs of ram..
Obviously a motherboard running at 100 MHz, which means you can upgrade to a 600MHz max CPU. The RAM is probably restricted to 64 Meg, though, probably only have two slots for it.
Will in Seattle
>> Has the hacker-friendly "appliance" finally arrived?
>
> If it's a robot girlfriend, then the answer is an unqualified "YES".
Robot girlfriend? Sure. Give us a minute to embed the mods.
But how about a web-enabled heavy petting waldo while you're waiting? You got it:
Cybersex Replaces Real Thing with Online Robots
--Blair
"Ohhh, Shania..."
(I am probably going to pay for this..oh yes)
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Jon - TheSpork
I don't know.... I'm a hacker (at least I like to think I am), and I would buy a few for:
-X terminals/web browsing in any room of my house (if this thing doesn't come with ethernet built in, then a USBethernet device would do).
-Cheap clustering
-Web servers (I could serve alot of stuff off of 20GB)
-Video On Demand (I could hook this up to my CD Tower to serve VCD's)
Another comment...
R&D costs are probably one reason why NOKIA decided on linux... Most of the software is already there (except maybe for a few firewire drivers, etc) or almost there... There R&D costs would be (IMHO) much lower than trying to get the same thing Stable in a windoze box.
Also, because of GPL, there are no SW royalties (they don't have to pay Micro$oft for each box).
Sounds like a smart decision (business wise) to me.
Come on. This relentless Linux-can-do-and- support-everything-now! attitude gets a little annoying. I've been running Linux ever since I was old enough to drink (nigh on seven years), and I use Linux quite a lot more often than I drink. However, I remain just a little bit realistic about Linux's abilities and drawbacks.
First off, you can't just buy USB or 1394 peripherals and expect them to work under Linux. I don't care what kind of crazed advocate you are; you will never get a Logitech USB webcam to work under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. There are other, better-supported USB webcams out there, but I'd rather have mine supported. Oh well. Linux is a long way from supporting even half of the USB peripherals on the market. Look at the source code. We've got USB mice and keyboards (easy), a series of Kodak digital cameras (cool), some Palm type stuff (bleh), and a very few specific chipsets, like the ones used in the Creative Webcam series (good webcams, but not what I own).
I'm not trying to put down the USB support in Linux. I'm just saying be more realistic. Less hype and advocacy, more truth in advertising.
Windows 98 sucks in many ways, but USB support is not one of them.
p.s., I know that Logitech (may their mouse balls fall off) are the problem, not Linux programmers, but that doesn't change the fact that Logitech USB webcams aren't supported under Linux. I have the highest regard for the Linux USB programmers and the lowest regard for Logitech...
a) Has heard of Nokia,
b) Has trust in the company, and
c) expects a Nokia device to be easy to use
I'll second that and say that Nokia is the premier brand in Asia as well. They manage to make a good-looking and navigable display on a small screen. The nokia display is really easy to use - to the point where it is intuitive and easy to remember where everything is. They have great little apps as well, like the calculator and the alarm clock.
I recently switched to a Motorola timeport (tri-band gsm) because I need a phone which will work in Asia, Europe and the USA. If I didn't need tri-band, I would switch back in a second. The fonts on the phone are huge, making it impossible to see a phone number on a single screen. WTF? I think the motorola interface designers are either blind or don't use the phones. The menus are 5 levels deep, organized randomly, with the useless choices first. It doesn't have a calculator. Worst of all, the alarm clock rings once and then stops. How is that supposed to wake me up? With my Nokia I had a snooze button.
Anyway, once Nokia has a tri-band phone I'm buying it. I recommend the Motorola engineers do as well.
This sounds like an expensive knock off of the Indrema. The Indrema has more features and will cost less, but then it doesn't exactly have the brand name that Nokia has. I wonder what the possibility of Nokia licensing Indrema technology would be? Check out http://www.indrema.com for details.
http://james.nontrivial.org
I for one would *definitely* buy one of these machines if they added one item: An optical drive that would allow me to - Play DVDs, CDs, CD-Rs - The ability to burn audio/video/MP3 CDs If you do that Nokia, you've got yourself a customer!
Hackers want the case. I'm not kidding.
Anyone can build a Linux box that does this stuff, but it'll be in a minitower case that looks like a personal computer. Hackers want tiny cases, unusual cases, and cases that look like stereo components. There aren't any for sale. None.
Some hackers can hack cases and work with sheet metal, I guess, but most can't because they are really just software hackers. Products like this (and the iOpener, etc) give 'em a way to get a better-looking computer without having to get their hands dirty.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
There's no real reason to keep the software proprietary if your business plan is to make money off sales of the hardware and internet service. Besides, it looks like most of the hardware in this thing is off-the-shelf stuff, meaning the drivers are already available. Maybe Nokia intends to make it's money from sales, rather than lawsuits.
BTW, I'd be interested to hear who the "competition" for this device is.
0 1 - just my two bits
Nokia, a hardware player far outside the current orbit of content oligarchs, could be a good dark-horse candidate to bring this to market.
I'm hopeful. Hollywood, be afraid.
Look at Nokia phones. They put games on those too. They have graphics that are inferior to the original GameBoy and sound is pretty much non-existant. But they are one of the most commonly mentioned features in the cellular stores I visit "Which is the one with the games?". Which should Nokia have given people? 400 phonebook entries or 250 phonebook entries and four cheapo games? I dare say Nokia made the right decision.
Look at the newere custom features like downloadable ringtones and graphics. Again, purely fluff. But again, all the teen girls love hearing their phone play "Eninem - Stan" when their boyfriend calls along with a flashing picture of Calvin & Hobbes. Again, features that please consumers.
I really have a lot of respect for Nokia when it comes to taking interesting steps. Motorola opened the door to designer cell phones with their StarTAC series but Nokia perfected it with the 8890. The newer 99xx series that opens like a glasses case to reveal a screen and keyboard is also amazing.
Now, I have been wishing and praying for a company to make a cheap TV->PC bridge for years. ReplayTV almost did it, but disabled their firewire ports due to pressue from TV studios. Nokia I dare say has virtually no connection to any media company at all (at least not until they have 3G phones that can stream video?) so all they care about is selling units...which is precisely what a hardware manufacturer should be concerned with.
If I can buy a box that I can program to record shows and the deliver them to any computer station on my home network, I will buy them, and I will buy many of them. I could care less if it's Radio Shack, Papa John's or Nokia. A ethernet port would be the ultimate but it's not a far stretch from USB and the FireWire storage options would be greatly welcomed.
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
"www.nokia.com is temporarily off-line for scheduled maintenance.
www.nokia.com will return by Thursday evening, January 18 2001."
What interesting timing!
Right after they got slashdotted.
        -MB
There is a problem: how to give cheap net access to the masses so that it becomes as common and easy to use as the telephone.
Sun have been raving about this for years, and is behind both their push on Java and distributed processing: they figure if they provide the infrastructure, then that is where they can make their money.
In Europe at least, Nokia is the premier mobile phone brand (though I use a Motorola v50), and the average consumer:
a) Has heard of Nokia,
b) Has trust in the company, and
c) expects a Nokia device to be easy to use
So bully for Nokia! If they can get these devices into the marketplace then they can probably persuade Joe consumer to buy one.
google -> feel lucky -> Device profile: Nokia Media Terminal dated 'Oct. 19, 2000'
Maybe the san jose mercury news is not a good news source for tech info / news but well for taking the 'temerature' (ambiance ?) of standard peoples.
#include "coucou.h"
Actually I read all that the other way around. The next paragraph goes on to say how this isn't a crippled system and you can put your own peripherals on it. That also means Nokia can put their own peripherals on it in future, just like Sony are bringing out hard disks and modems for the PS2. Seems like a pretty clever move by Nokia. It gets them into the set-top box market, which is hotting up now digital TV is starting to get up and running, and it gives them a foot in the door when convergence between PCs and TVs really gets going.
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Karma: Chameleon (you come and go)
Here is the google cache.
Has the hacker-friendly "appliance" finally arrived?
If it's a robot girlfriend, then the answer is an unqualified "YES".
An answer to a question no one asked.
... so kernel hackers may be seeing some patch submissions from "nokia.com" addresses in the near future.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
or does some really badass stuff come out of finland?
Umm, just to point out some errors you had in your post. Forestry used to be the largest block of exports until the beginning of the '90s (electronics etc are the largest nowadays) and as for tourism that has never been all that large a source of employment in Finland.
Thank you, Nokia.
Linux isn't unpopular because it's supposedly hard to learn! It is not cool. (Cool is a marketing term that means "my hip friends haven't found a use for it yet.")
What makes Linux cool (popularly usable) to the masses? A Web appliance whose software is mostly open source and free, whose programmers are somewhat accessible/responsible to user feedback, and the ability to upgrade and update without repeatedly paying fees and buying licenses.
The appliance's low price may be the key to introducing people to the advantages of Linux.
Goat sex free since 2001
Or just put freebsd on the box and get good USB support. :)
twas a mystery to me...
It was silly for him to try, because there IS NO DRIVER For it.
That's because Logitech thinks that the bits that talk to the camera, perhaps more so than the camera itself, constitute their key to market share.
They WILL NOT release specs for the camera, so Linux folks cannot write a driver for it.
I wouldn't blame that on Linux.
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This might sound silly or even a little perverse to experienced computer users, but a new industry fad is to build what could be a decent PC and then cripple it to make sure it doesn't act like one. These hobbled machines often can't download or install software, or read e-mail attachments. Instead of Windows, they run operating systems from Linux, Be or some other company. These crippled machines are called Internet appliances, and they are billed as easy for beginners to use.
Not exactly a glowing representation of Linux.... while the machine itself sounds wonderful, the article is a real piece of junk, treating it like a piece of trash "because it doesn't run windows". Funny that they mention TiVO as one of its "more superior" competitors and don't mention that it too runs Linux.
Ah, well... somebody once said that "bad coverage was better than none at all" so I guess it is a small plus but it would be nice to see a better informed article on the machine.
Imagine what would happen if this thing became a resonable game box.
Specs from the PDF
Software
Hardware
Memory
Network Interfaces
Audio/Video Ouput Interfaces
External Interfaces
Content Protection
Digital Video Recording (DVR)
Power Supply
Dimensions
Environmental Conditions
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
This is not a legit arguement! He says that we all don't want to get bored and points to enlightenment as proof. Does anybody else see this as idiotic?
Media is a big force now, so what? If we didn't want video and things like that, why even have a GUI? You can be more productive and encounter far fewer problems if you work at the console, but few do, because they want the pictures, they want the video, they want the media which makes it easier to understand the point (Imagine the difference between a picture of something and a text-only description of it). Graphics may be entertainment quite often, but are mostly tools, not toys.
Nobody (least nobody posting at >=1) seems to have pointed out the obvious parallel here.
Linus Torvalds is Finnish
Nokia are Finnish
Hacker: A criminal who breaks into computer systems
"Information wants to be paid"
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Do you remember the I-Opener, the flagship device of the hardware hacking generation? The reason it was so popular to mod it was because you could spend 20$ on a hard drive and make a damn decent notbook computer out of the 99$ device.
Hardware hacking is here to take advantage of corporate stupidity and cheap devices resulting from it.
you will never get a Logitech USB webcam to work under Linux. Believe me, I've tried.
.oO0Oo.
I'm sorry but that isn't exactly conclusive proof.
It's posible to get any piece of hardware working given enough time and resources. If you were determined enough you could build a USB sniffer device and work from there. etc. etc.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
400 bucks a pop? Jeebus! that is cheap! Just think about the possibilities. Cheap webservers. Cheap ogg machines. Maybe a cluster? The hackability will be incredible. Can we say 2.4.0 kernel? A nice machine to take to lan parties and run it as a dedicated server. I know that I for one am buying one of those just to tinker with.
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I don't care what it looks like, it WORKS doesn't it!?!
I'd like to know what people think of the chances for this thing to do well. I mean... there's so many internet appliances, the most notable being WebTV, that everyone thought would just explode on to the scene, and in the end wound up making nary a dent. Sure, I'd love to see one take off, preferably with linux under the hood, but as it stands the market is pretty small for these.
There's a fair amount of optimism on this board for this thing, but I'm more skeptical simply because it hasn't worked in the past. I personally think it's because when people think "internet" they think "computer" rather than "TV Top Box" and they go out and buy an iMac or an eMachine or something instead. Any thoughts?
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Actually, when I installed Mandrake 7.2, it detected my Logitech Webcam and installed the software for it.
The same Media terminal is also covered in http://slashdot.org/articles/00/09/08/142218.shtml
I joined two users too late.
Little Johnny will be p*ss*d off if daddy bought one of these instead of a PS/2. But at these prices daddy can afford both.
Old COBOL programmers never die. They just code in C.
Might make a nice e-mail station though. Just install Althea and you're good to go.
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For a stable GTK IMAP client check out http://althea.sourceforge.net
... I would not mind a box just for sitting down and playing quake3 - not DC - q3 on DC is just sad - no mods
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
By putting linux on it. Hackers aren't going to be buying these systems. Mom and Dad are going to get one for little Johnny. And what happens when little Johnny can't play his games? There's no way this product will sell as an entertainment platform-not with linux instead of Win98, and not with low end hardware, because the latest/greatest games won't work. This is probably just vaporware, and Nokia hopefully won't screw themselves out of a lot of R&D costs by trying to sell this.
Colin Winters
1. More support for Linux USB devices across the board if this grill, er applicance gets popular.
2. People will start to trust Linux. I think that is one of the main things holding Linux back.
3. More people in Linux users groups.
4. They may use this to push HDTV,
5. Finally we will be able to trade our favorite sitcom episodes.
6. Create jobs for Linux Gurus.
It will be hacked befored you know it
Nokia needs game developers for the Media Terminal.
As I posted earlier, for Linux to benefit more people need to use it. This box is yet another option for to find a useful, widely popular application for Linux.
In other words, a reason for someone who isn't necessarily a "geek" to get a Linux box.
I linked this PDF because one way to promote the widespread use of the thing is to make games for it.
Goat sex free since 2001
http://linux1394.sourceforge.net/
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Heh. Just finished building a '486 linux box which tapes stuff from the radio onto a stereo cassette. I used the PC Cadet radio card and X10 to control the cassette deck. Of course, my 'Media PC' cost around $100 plus a day or two of setup.
Not a web designer.
I think it should be call Indrema
Sigs are for suckers
Someone I know got one for Christmas, and I've not worked up the courage to take it apart yet. But if there was an easy "plug in a cable" approach, I'd be willing to try it...
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
Yep -- I screwed up. Though some awkward phrasing in the article might lead you to believe otherwise, I DO know Linux isn't a company ... and I must admit I also DID overlook the fact that TiVo runs Linux. (Many kind Slashdotters have been helpful enough to inform me on these points. Many.) Hopefully you guys will agree with the thrust of my point, though: Nokia has taken things a bit further than TiVo or anyone else I've seen, my making an x86 Linux box that's got a lot of potential.
Maybe a bit off topic, but I've been seeing a lot of these rounded top designs lately for this kind of device. It seems to me (as an equipment stacker) that this is not the most sensible design. I like to be able to stack my boxes up, and not require a shelf for individual components. Presumably this device would be located by the TV/Stereo, and not at a desk- So why not make it more of a standard stereo component design? Its not a turntable, there's no reason I need access to the top of it. I want to be able to pile those boxes high dammit!
air and light and time and space
All the same, the means of creating canned entertianment are becoming cheaper and more impressive. Digitial cameras, DVD and the internet are much cheaper than older film bassed equipment. This new box may play a part in making such tools mainstream.
Ha! see there, even a troll like Lover's Arrival can be pulled back on topic.
Most appliances like this will need to be reverse-engineered to get at the guts. Companies don't like to send it out open-source... which means you can't do maintenance or anything.
*hates having his hands tied*
Nokia's FireWalls (which use CheckPoint's FireWall-1) are Linux based.
My office mate (who is an example of how much brain damage chemotherapy causes since he's comfortable sharing an office with me) was quite startled the first time he lit up one of these boxes. He knew I was a Linux geek so he dragged me into it (he's a networking guru for switches and stuff; firewalls is a recent mission for him).
Nokia's stuff has been cute but I was expecting the delivery of our firewalls to include the covers (like the phones have) so we can doctor their looks...
-soup (GNUrd, Speaker to Machines) "Laugh at yourself- Why should everyone else have all the fun?" -Romanchek's 6th Ru