Slashdot Mirror
The Pillsbury Doughboy vs. Engineers
Anonymous Coward writes: "Just when you thought things could not get more stpid. Salon is reporting in this story that Pillsbury is sending cease-and-desist letters this week to universities and Sun Microsystems among others ordering engineers to stop holding what the doughboy company considers illegal "bake-offs." A bake-off is slang for testing software against protocols. This article tells the story.
Xray crystallographers who use the "shake and bake" software better watch out. They're probably next."
This reminds me of Carl Sagan suing (and wining) against someone (I'm sure someone else will remember who--I think it was Apple) called their release "Sagan." So, they changed the name "Butthead Astronomer." Carl Sagan sued again, but lost.
Apparently, of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.
The point is, however, when you invite lawyers into a situation like this, a lawsuit could easily follow.
If I take my car to a mechanic, the mechanic's likely to add on additional work for himself. A lawyer's involvement is unlikely to stop at a simple letter, because he or she operates under the same principle the mechanic would use.
You might say that the company can control it's lawyers, stopping at the letter. But, in this day and age, how much of a company's behavior is actually controlled by the lawyers?
Goat sex free since 2001
is that no one reads posts after 2 days..
can a company be so mindbogglingly stupid? I cannot conceive of a non-comedic board meeting with the legal team to decide to pursue 'bake-off' as a trademark under infringement. Expecially right now. I would've expected it in mid-99 when they could've used their legal team to sap some dollars out of the tech boom [1], but trying it now is squeezing water from a stone.
Of course, this is from a company that asks you to sign up for their spam with a damn popup on their front page, so. Surf their brands to see what you should boycott. Lay off the haagen-dazs, green giant, old el paso, and of course, pilsbury.
[1] Of course, it would've been stupid then for the same reasons it is now, but I could at least see a good corp-think argument for it.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Pillbury's lawyers won't fear a boycott. Everyone knows that geeks don't bake. :-)
But recently I sent a nastygram to Hormel Foods about a pound of "premium" bacon that turned out to be 80% fat when I opened their deceptive packaging. They offered me a refund if I'd "only" send my address, receipt, the bacon's UPC code and batch code.
I told 'em all I'd kept was my address. Two weeks later I had a check for $3.29. It probably cost 'em $20 to process that check.
Wonder how long it would take for Pillsbury to catch on? ;-)
Do you think Kimberly-Clark would go after a company marketing tissue under the slang term "Kimby-wipes?" They'd probably have a good case because it would be a term that name that would cause confusion in various circles.
excerpt from www.pillsbury.com, link to site is here
[begin contact info]
Contact Us
Before you contact us, we'd like you to review our policies on privacy and suggestion and idea submissions.
Phone
1(800)767-4466
8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Central Time
Monday through Friday
Email
Click here to contact Pillsbury about product and technical questions. Kids, get your parent's permission first!
Write
The Pillsbury Company
2866 Pillsbury Center
Minneapolis, MN 55402 USA
[end contact info]
if they have a problem with that.... good =)
Hello! This file is hosted by Tripod, a Lycos® Network site, providing the best personal and commercial publishing tools available on the Net. For premier homepages and lively community interaction, visit Tripod often.
I don't get the joke. Tripod has something to do with the doughboy?
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Honestly, I never heard of a pillsbury bake-off. Bake-off is def everyday language, and I feel that they should reliquish their rights to the phrase
The ACLU, I suppose?
I don't think this approach is going to help, though. Let's start the rant: :^)
There are too many lawyers! The US has the majority of the world's lawyers - there is not enough work for them. Therefore they will create their own work - needlessly consuming everybody's time, energy and resources. Nobody can afford that many unproductive lawyers for long.
The big law schools need to reduce their output of lawyers to approach the numbers a society actually needs - the numbers they produce now undermine the workings of society and destroy civil liberties.
Someone at Pillsbury was probably shocked and dismayed when doing a search on "bake-off" and getting all these hits that have nothing to do with proper use of the Pillsbury trademark.
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. *shakes head in dismay*
Also, there is this intersting IETF mail archive entry about this very issue from last November. It quotes text from RFC1025(Sept 1987) --
There were a few times when this testing was focused, bringing together all known implementations and running through a set of tests in hopes of demonstrating the N squared connectivity and correct implementation of the various tricky cases. These events were called "Bake Offs".
So the term has obviously been in use for quite a long time. I'll bet what is driving this now is all these TCP testing-related websites getting higher page ranks than Pillsbury's official bake-off contest stite. It is causing consumer confusion! Too fscking bad!
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
I took that course on viscous flow.
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the use of a trademarked image okay when used in an obvious satire (I remember seeing it back in the day). If so, then the good folks at rotten should probably be talking with their lawyers about this, because they may have a case here. Or, more likely, someone has bought congress/the president yet again to make sure that there is no dissident voices anywhere.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Your analogy is especially appropriate, and my first thought on reading it was: Lawyers are nothing BUT robbers, these days, using the law as their sidearms. That the law is used not as a method of protecting people but rather a means to attack others to gain their assets is a sign that we're headed for the shitter. :(
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
http://smokedot.org/
The article mentions that Coke can be a soft drink and a mineral. Coke can also be an illicit drug. Perhaps we should be sending trademark lawyers after all the drug dealers. Perhaps an over zealous trademark lawyer will finally put all those pushers in their place. Or maybe those crackhead dealers will finally rid us of the lawyers. Perhaps some caps need to be busted off before corporate america will learn to live and let live.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
IANAL.. But I read books by Nolo press (Writen by legal experts to explain the law.. think "Law for Idiots")
This is well outside the function of trademarking. It is to protect product and company identity a "mark"..
I am aware however that nothing in IP law requires the protection be used as intended....
However this is flying in the face of the way language works.. English is the "worst" offender of language mutation...
But language mutates as needed... Need a term for testing protocals.. Why not "Bake off"? And how about "Beta testing".. Are we testing a Betamax? Often "Beta testing" is the PRIMARY test.. ("It's only a beta" should be answered with "What the hell happend to the alpha?")
Thankfully insect sprays haven't patented "killing bugs" or we'd be sued for fixing software defects... (Yeah yeah even Microsoft would get sued.. don't go there.. I hate them but stay on topic even if I can't)
So who do we sue next?
BTW the artical botched it... Klenex, Xerox and other trademarks have nearly gone into public domain but they did save the day..
The artical avoids a real comparison.. "Spam" where "Spam" refers to marketting bombardment in e-mail and usenet... the term was in use for years before Hormel sued Cyberpromo for using the term..
I don't actually exist.
and even your examples would not stand up in court. There are many trademarked terms that are in common use. Try "Good Thing", owned by Martha Stewart. Look up other "everyday" phrases at U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. You'd be surprised.
I'm surprised they said that. Here's what Hormel has to say now about SPAM and UCE.
In summary, they don't mind people using the word, "spam" when talking about UCE, but not "SPAM" (distinguishing all-caps as their product name). They also (fairly, I think) don't like their product associated with UCE (for example, slashdot's use of a can of SPAM for the UCE topic).
Michaelmod it up, boyz
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
I'm sure you're wrong about the case having no merit-- Pillsbury invented the term, they've held a trademark on it since 1971 (according to their website), and they've defended their trademark successfully in the past.
As I understand it, they could lose a suit like this if it could be shown that "bake-off" has become a generic term for "competition", or smething like that. And if they were claiming rights to the "-off" suffix, that would definitely be overreaching. But as it is, I don't see where this is a slam-dunk for the geeks.
And as for a "public relations fiasco," who's more sympathetic-- the doughboy, or Scott McNealy?
go get some therapy...after they run about 50 grams of that stuff through your veins over a two year period or so...ahhhhh. things will be much mo betta.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
but I oh so love those Pillsbury Pizza Pops...
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Insert Witty Sig Here
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-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I asked, does Pillsbury enter your mind at all when you hear bake off? They all answered no.
Indeed, I asked my wife. She thought for a moment and answered "Betty Crocker" and was quite sure of it.
It is obvious that Pillsbury has not done enough already to keep their "trade mark" from disassociation and dilution, and they want to start now?
<cliche>
Too little too late.
Closing the barn door behind the horse.
</cliche>
Are a couple of things that come to mind.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
Next thing you know, the Shit Corporation will insist that we stop saying, "Oh, shit!" That usage tends to sully and dilute the quality of authentic Shit, whose market value is only as good as its name. Even if you are merely refering to shit and not to Shit(tm), the mere casual invocation of a trademark is itself troublesome: the Shit Corporation would like it to be understood that talking Shit is hardly a casual endeavor for its 1,253 employees worldwide. Shit, you might say, signs their paychecks. And so it has been since the early 1880s when Silus Shit founded the company on no more than an intestinal rumble and a dream. The proud Shit tradition -- summed up in the company slogan, "Shit and Business, Hand-in-Hand, Forever" -- demands no less. Think twice before dropping Shit in conversation unless you really mean it.
If you visit their website http://www.mealtimeideas.com/ you will be presented with a spam dialog box, where you are supposed to put your own e-mail address etc. And of course, you can put someone else's e-mail address.
I leve the rest to your fantasy.
(BTW, I couldnt' believe a company could be so moronic, even in USA where tehy, *sigsh*, can!)
Sigged!
I'd say we should encourage Fox Entertainment, Inc. or Matt Groening to sue Pillsbury back for calling their mascot "D'Oh"-boy.
It would seem rotten.com does not have the financial resources to pursue such a legal battle, as their response to almost every cease and desist order they have received is to remove the offending content. And they have received many...
This sig is umop apisdn.
No, a C&D is the first step at resolution. It only threatens to sue if the alleged abuse continues.
The purpose of a C&D is two-fold. Obviously, it's much cheaper than a lawsuit and usually effective. In addition, if you need to take the abuser to court at a later time, the company can submit the C&D as proof that has made efforts to protect its trademark. It also proves that the abuser knew about the violation and continued to abuse it anyway (for punitive damage).
Don't f*ck with Pillsbury. They're known for sending 150 ft. demonically possessed doughboys at anyone who opposes them.
trademark, not patent, and you'll probably have to search again for bake off, because that one expires
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
About that comment that "nobody brings a cassirole," it seems like somebody would bring a plate of cookies or natchos or something. After all, you've got a whole bunch of guys testing code for hours on end. This leads me to doubt that nobody ever brought a cassirole, or any other sort of food item.
Ho-hooo!
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
well i thing running around poking people is probably illegal for other reasons
am i in legal danger?
I like meat helmets.
Bring cookies to bake offs. Not pillsbury, of course...
You'd also have to boycott Haggen Dazs, Green Giant, Old El Paso, Totino's, Progresso, Jeno's and Martha White.
If you're serious about it though, I'll put a boycott up on my site, see below.
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
A better example is aspirin, did you know that used to be a brand name?
Now it's been diluted and IS open to other companies saying "Bayer Brand Aspirin"
Get involved
It's the 21st Century Do you know what your government is doing
Sun can call it the "pillsbury fuck off" instead.
I ask this because some upbraded my posting of Nintendo contact info in an earlier discussion this past week. Some did not like the idea of an executive get slash-dotted by all the people writing and sending email.
One comment made to me was:
And My response was: There was this reply: My position is stated clearly above. Although I could be wrong, I do believe that we all have the right to contact people in corporations based on what we do know and what we do believe. We should not be intimidated by the PR spin of some. Our freedom is based in large part on the ability to freely communicate."It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
To test this, I propose the author attempt to bring to market a line of facial tissues called "Kleenex", and see exactly how long it takes for him to hear from the Kimberly-Clark corporation. Indeed, even if he were marketing Kleenex-brand Bowling Balls, I suspect he'd hear from K-C. This is such a stupid myth that would never be propagated but for poor fact-checking.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
If Pillsbury does not protect "bake-off" from entering into general English usage like "xerox", "escalator", "popscicle", and "kleenex", then Pillsbury loses some ability to enforce their trademark against a direct competitor. I'm mostly on Pillsbury's side on this one. I suppose if Pillsbury wanted to be really nice, they could license the term to one or two specific organizations for $1, but even that's risky for them, and they are probably not afraid of a boycott from Slashdot readers.
They actually send associates around when they're on travels to various restaurants and check the responses. Those who don't clarify are asked (politely, according to my brother) to correctly phrase the question, and the store goes in the big bad offenders database.
It's their way of preserving the fact that a Coke is their particular beverage. They (the brand owners) really DO take this stuff seriously.
I just sent the following to the pillsbury comment site and the mealtimeideas site:
Begin submission ---
Ok guys, this has gone far enough. I fully understand your legal right and responsibility to protect your trademark on "Bake-off", but this has to stop. I am a network administrator for a state agency and have been involved in the computer industry for almost 10 years. Until reading the article posted on slashdot.org today, I had never heard of the term Bake-off used for engineering testing and competition. This just does not have the same impact as the 'Kleenex' and 'Aspirin' issues.
Had I not seen the article, I would have gone blithely along completely unaware that Bake-off (not a word I use in daily conversation) was anything other than a contest by the Pillsbury folk. I sincerely doubt there could be any consumer confusion about the difference between a Pillsbury baking contest and an informal event to test computer hardware and/or software.
I have become more and more concerned in recent times about the problem of creeping corparatism and patent and intellectual property issues. There is a big difference between someone attempting to market a product by co-opting the Bake-off trademark and some engineers getting together to test equipment. Since I heard about the patent of an obvious computer process in the Amazon 'one-click' patent issue, I elected to stop patronizing Amazon.com and let anyone I come in contact with know the reason I had done so. I don't know if I have had any impact on their business, but it really doesn't matter to me, it's an integrity issue.
If I don't hear in the near future that Pillsbury has retracted it's objection to what some small group of engineers have chosen to call their informal testing process, I will have to stop purchasing Pillsbury and related products and let anyone I come in contact with know the reason why. Again, I don't know if it will impact the Pillsbury bottom line, and I don't really care, it's all about integrity.
I'm sure you know that the best advertising is word-of-mouth. But it can also be the worst form of advertising. I make very informed and objective purchasing decisions. Often guided by what others have told me about their experiences and what they have heard about a vendor, company, etc. (after verifying what might be hearsay.) I hope others make these types of decisions as well.
This is only intended to be a statement of my displeasure at what I see as a wholly unreasonable use of corporate power. Please reconsider you actions and leave these poor engineers alone.
Thank you for your time. I'll be keeping my eye on the media to see if should continue to patronize the Pillsbury corporation.
End Submission ---
I will watch to see if they continue this ridiculous course of action. If so, I will follow through. I don't know if my individual decsion will make any difference to them, but a lot of individuals before a significant force with significant impact.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
That is assuming that there is a violation. Trademarks are issued within particular areas of trade, and I would be most surprised if the Pilsbury mark is in the same area(s) of trade as protocol testing sessions.
I was unable to see the picture, but fromthe description this should be it. Mirror early, mirror often.
When Apple was sued for using the word Sagan as a code-name for a project, Apple rename it Butt-Head Astronomer.
Ehh, the story was a little different.
Apple had a project called Carl Sagan.
Carl Sagan sued Apple and lost.
Apple changed the project name to BHA which was short for "ButtHead Astronomer".
Carl Sagan again sued Apple and lost.
Apple then changed the projectname to "LAW", short for Lawyers Are Whimps.
They didn't changed the name of this project again.
Nah I think it's moderated. If my 'It's my FIRST POST here, does anyone have any SPAM recipies' turns up they may not be the wiser. An old style cassading quotation spam-out (Remember USENET? what where those monster reply-to loonouts called anyway?) could be in order.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Well, it's not like there were no Trojans for Windows which you could use to send emails from another guys' computer...
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>Anyone have any ideas for an alternative to bake-off?
How about "cooking the DB"..
I even have a spokesperson for it.. a carrtcier on Strenua Inertia Mr.DB
I don't actually exist.
They look like they came out of the mouth of a naive young man who just read Ayn Rand, or one who inherited a whole bunch of money and was born that way.
Ever look and see how many of your posts get modded "Overrated?" It's not just one person (or at least not just one account, heh).
One more reason--to defuse the effect of your trolls immediately after they're posted, unless I'm in the mood to watch a humorous thread.
~~~
They still have the trademark for Aspirin in germany, and I think you'd be hear from their lawyers pretty soon if you should want to start selling your own Aspirin brand headache pills...
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They've finally found something more stupid, and with less ground in courts than one-click-shopping.
Maybe they'd prefer if everyone used the phrase "Pillsbury Sucks" instead.
I didn't know that the term 'bake-off' was owned by Pilsbury. Anyway... it all reminds me of a guy who I talked to a while ago who owned zennet, who would create net pages solely for the purpose of making the blood-thirsty lawyer-monkies chase after him with tons of cease and desist letters, whereafter he would delete the page after responding to them three or four times. He would get some great letterheads and stationary and the like, and had a pretty good collection going, but then, out of no where, in the middle of a legal correspondence with Manny, Mike, and Lo (aka, the Pep Boys) he just vanished off the face of the planet. Server and all. Hmm.
One word: Spam
Ozwald
This has been posted to the Pilsbury http://www.mealtimeideas.com/bulletinboard/
y /index.html
p g
For those of you who don't know, Pilsbury is sending cease and desist orders to a variety of organizations who use the term "bake-off."
The most recent round of such letters went to computer companies who use the term for a state of software testing. Salon has an article about it online. http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/01/19/pillsbur
Your local school could be next!
Anyway, my computer geek background and my considerable cooking skills inspired me to come up with the following recipe for Dough-Boy cakes.
First, you start with a basic pound cake or Mazitpan recipe. If using a pound cake recipe, you need to add flour to create a very dense dough.
Roll the dough into circles for the head, an oval for the chest and smaller ovals for the legs and arms. If you're feeling creative you can even make the hat and add some food coloring.
The more sadistic among us can shape the head with skeleton features to indicate a cooked Dough-Boy who met a gruesome end, as in the picture here: http://members.tripod.com/laffs/images/Doughboy.j
Serve and enjoy.
http://www.matthewmiller.net
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
.."Jack Offs" instead
[/me ducks]
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
A trademark only covers specific areas. You can have a trademark in one area, but not have it conflict with an identical trademark in another area.
Look at Apple Records and Apple Computers.
Fight Spammers!
They may as well patent the word "bake" while they're at it.
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-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
The -off suffix appended to anything in order to signify competition has a history long before 1971. There have been BBQ bakeoff's about as long as this country has been cooking pig ribs coated with sauce. There were dance-offs in the '30s to '50s. A party might be able to show that -off is a normal part of the language and that trademarking bake-off is about as valid as trademarking a word with the prefix re to mean again. As another example, when I ran a previous version of this article through a spelling checker, it turned up trademarking as an invalid word. Could I trademark the word trademarking as the act of applying for a trademark?
But you claim that they've successfully defended the trademark before. That is a bit worrisome, but it all depends on what they've done to defend it. If it has just been sending cease and desist letters and having their victims fold, thats one thing. A court decision is something else.
As for a "public relations fiasco", they've been susceptable to it before. Do you remember Ben and Jerry's "What's the Doughboy afraid of" ad campaign? Who is more sympathetic, the doughboy? or a couple of hippies trying to sell extra fat ice cream during the height of the '80s health food craze.
So Pillsbury needs to show that "bake-off" is in danger of becoming a generic term for "competition," and they have an interest in preventing that.
Let's be real here, ask 1 million non-geeks what they envision when they hear that Sun is holding a bake off, and most will probably picture some sort of employee morale event involving cakes and cookies. I seriously doubt that they will picture an event where clients and servers get mixed and matched to test interoperability.
Also, do a Google search on bake off. I found that use of the term seems divided about 70-30 in favor of the tech usage by MANY entities with no particularly outstanding entity. On the cooking side (30% roughly) about half referred to Pillbury, the other half to various other entities including McDonalds!
Coca-Cola is a good example of a famous mark. It is widely recognized by most of the world (often phonetically in non-english speaking countries).
Of course, it's possable to get nearly anything into court these days if you have a large legal staff that gets paid wheather they are busy or not. That is not a good thing. Perhaps we need a grand jury like process for civil court to decide if a suit has enough merit to be worth bothering the defendant with.
I don't think that it could be said that protocol interoperability sessions could be seen as a parody of food baking competitions. They aren't doing it to make fun of pilsbury style competitions.
It's not like Pilsbury isn't gonna get their ass kicked all over the place by the Judges...
A bit soon for boycott calls, IMHO
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Cool! I'm already boycotting them and didn't even know it.
In all seriousness though, I would like to given them a chance to respond before a boycott. (As if little 'ole me boycotting them will make much difference to them)
I say if they don't apologize by Tuesday we start the political activism. I've had it with all these #)&$@ corporations deciding their bottom line is more important than right and wrong. I don't want to live under Corporate Feudalism anymore.
http://www.matthewmiller.net"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
They should have known better than to trademark such a word.
Same issue. We adopted a trademarked term from real-life for use in our computer world and had to change it. Same thing here. Unless of course the phrase was in common use before the corp. appropriated it for their own use (a la Windows).
Though interestingly, Pillsbury claims that the first use of the trademarked "Bake-Off" term was Mar 31st, 1995. IANAL, but could one argue that the term was already a commonly used/well known phrase in the English language.
It's in my 1976 Webster's 3rd International Dictionary, which identifies it as a "service mark".
Yes, it is brought about by the desperate sucking winds of dot com ventures that are about to run out of cash. Unfortunately these winds sometimes blow down the doors of established companies and bring lightly scattered lawsuits. The weak and nerdy are admired for their computer programming ability-Homer Simpson
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I always thought the term "bake-off" when applied to software was a particularly egregious malforming of a previously well-understood phrase. It's just the kind of flip, ignorant re-use of a halfway-misunderstood phrase that pollutes the meaning for everybody. The guys who decided to give the word 'widget' an actual meaning as opposed being a metasyntactic variable also fall into this category of miscreants.
Pillsbury's trademarks include The Doughboy® and likeness, Häagen-Dazs®, Old El Paso®, Green Giant®, Sprout®, and Bake-Off®. Now you know what brands to avoid.
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Well of course, since Sun is one of the litigees, and they make "Java", of COURSE it's food. Duh!
Heck, Sun can call me in as a witness. I can probably still come up with my non-winning cake recipe...
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
yeah that's a real bright idea. "Maybe if we make ourselves look like complete assholes, people will buy our muffins!" I think (hope) this will hurt them more than help them.
Actually, they don't. Check this, from nolo.com:
In addition, under federal and state laws known as "anti-dilution statutes," a trademark owner may go to court to prevent its mark from being used by someone else if the mark is famous and the later use would dilute the mark's strength -- that is, weaken its reputation for quality (called tarnishment) or render it common through overuse in different contexts.
Anti-dilution statutes can apply even if there is no way customers would be likely to confuse the source of the goods or services designated by the later mark with the famous mark's owner. For instance, consumers would not think that Microsoft Bakery is associated with Microsoft, the software company, but Microsoft bakery could still be forced to choose another name under federal and state anti-dilution laws.
There is no good definition of what makes a mark famous. This means that to avoid dilution claims, it is necessary to stay away from all existing marks that have widespread and significant consumer recognition.
So Pillsbury needs to show that "bake-off" is in danger of becoming a generic term for "competition," and they have an interest in preventing that. All of which seems credible enough to get you into court.
[Can I have my karma now?]
From the article:
"No one is going to confuse protocol testing with cookies," says Brian Rosen, an engineer who organizes bake-offs to test a Net telephony protocol.
Well...
Has there been a new law that has forced companies to more aggresively pursue copyrights and trademarks? Did all the lawyers make a resolution to cause more agony in the new year? Or is this just business as usual, and we're just noticing it more now?
I understand a bit about trademarks, that you have to get out a stick and enforce it every once in awhile or you lose it, but this seems a little ridiculous.
Or, perhaps, there is a new product in the works - maybe a Pokemon / Dough Boy crossover? Watch the show, buy the trading cards, eat the cereal, bake the character-shaped cookies?
If I'm absolutly correct about that last one, sorry Slashdot. You can remove this comment if the lawyers knock on your door
whether or not their case would stand up in court, if it ever got that far, is another question.
...the Dough Boy does not know KUNG FOO!
Trolls make great pets. Adopt one today!
Ok. I know it was only part of a joke in the original post, but as a previous developer of SnB, I've gotta pass along the link to the actual lab and software:
http://www.hwi.buffalo.edu/SnB/
Someone should tell them to go bake themselves..
I've seen independent "IU Opoly," "Purdue Opoly," and "Michigan Opoly" board games for sale at Sears stores. For example, under this pattern, the original MONOPOLY® board game would be called "Atlantic City Opoly."
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Seen on the inside of the packaging for cookie dough (in fine print):
"seineew era sreenigne nuS"
*or*
They should rename the "bake-offs" to BHDs (Butt-Head Doughboys).
SIP has very little to do, specifically, with wireless.
It has to do transmitting content (voice, mostly) over networks. Parts of the network may be wireless, but that's not the focus.
I do remember using a 3Com SIP phone, having to plug it in and let it grab an address before I could use it.
The only wireless part was the IR port for connecting to a Palm. You can dial out with it or register your identity with the phone so that calls to you would be routed to that phone.
It's pretty cool, actually.
For a Linux implementation, check out Dissipate for KDE.
[posted anonymously to preserve identity]
:) Another good person to try would be Raymond Viault, who is the vice chairman of the board of directors and is in charge of the General Mills/Pillsbury "transition team."
I worked as an Intern for General Mills this past summer in their IS department. Being an intern at a place gets you lots of interesting information. I knew General Mills would be buying Pillsbury two days in advance of the announcement this summer. I know other useful information, so if someone wants to email the General Mills' Sr. VP - Corp. Affairs, Sec., Gen. Counsel Siri Marshall to tell him that persuing the "bake-off" infringement is a bad idea, go ahead
I would bake some pillsburry with a "fuck off" sign in their 2 hands and mail them back with their original cease and desist letter.
Oh wait, did someone trademark "fuck off" yet?
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
But as it is, I don't see where this is a slam-dunk for the geeks.
You better watch out, "slam-dunk" could be trademarked by the NBA.
This kind of thing makes me truly sick, it really does. But to be frank with you, I'm not the least bit surprised.
It's what I call the American Mentality: whenever there's any possible reason, chance or method to sue somebody, do it. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, and I'm not some Anti-American slander king. But if you look at how often this occurs, how much it is encouraged (even implicitly) you can't help but see this as predictable.
Whenever I watch American TV, I'm stunned by the number of law firm commercials with ads like: "Have you been in an auto accident or injured at work? Call Dick "The Ironfist" Jones, and he'll get you the money you deserve." They're full of testimonials like: "I broke my leg skiing and had to miss five weeks of work. Dick Jones got me $1.2 million, and now I'm set for life." Granted, I only get about 4 American stations (mostly from the Detroit area,) but I find it implausible that Detroit is the only place this occurs.
Now, I can understand big businesses having the right to protect their investments, but the tendency to go overboard is becoming remarkably commonplace. Look at the recent cases involving DeCSS and the MPAA. Look at how IDG books goes after the slightest mention of their most popular products. Before trying anything else, get a lawyer to send a few letters to whomever you find slightly annoying and then don't be afraid to sue the hell out of them. That's the American Way!!
This sort of thing makes me fearful of being in the States. The constant dread of knowing that at any minute, for any reason, a team of lawyers could descend upon me is absolutely frightening. That there is a large group of individuals and corporations who seek any opportunity to go after you financially for any excuse would be enough to keep me from ever leaving my home.
Perhaps it should be henceforth referred to as "The Land of Legal Opportunity." Marginal tax rate and Health Care burden be damned, I'm quite happy living in Canada.
All are encouraged to post something similar. We'll squash this before it ever gets to the court.
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
-The Professor, Futurama
God forbid that any major record label hear of this, or else we'll be accused of trying to steal the noteriety of "records that went gold". Or perhaps some jewelry chain will sue us for saying that we offer gold when in fact we only offer software. Oh, and there's a gym who's name starts with "gold's"... *shudders at the thought of 10,000 muscular guys breaking our doors down to kick all of the programmer's asses*
Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
So why aren't they suing comedy festivals? After all, that's the first url found by google. Pillsbury is 2nd, and the engineer's event places a lowly 3rd.
--
Dyolf Knip
I guess they really only want you to talk about food.
--
Dyolf Knip
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
A brief search on google revealed the following (admittedly old) link about spam and email. I'm curious whether the reasoning would apply to the present case.
When are these guys going to learn you can't copyright common terminology like this?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Maybe now I'll get charged every time I get screwed during my engineering midterms/exams. After all, I'm paying for it so it could be seen as soliciting sexual services.
DataSquid.net, a little about me.
Pilsbury Legal Offices:
The head lawyer rises at the mahogany table and begins to speak. "Gentlemen, we have to crack down on the unwashed masses using our trademark terms. The NAZI 'final solution' practices taught us that we need to start small. If we jump straight to suing the schools who dilute our trademarks, we'll have a public outcry, but if they're the last stage of the plan, no one will whimper because they'll know it's just part of the program. The question is, where do we begin?"
One of the drones raises his hand, "Sir, I think we need a group that the masses already fear. People who are ridiculed and downtrodden, yet not the focal point of sympathy. We need to start with a group who is the focal point of many people's frustration, rage and fear, people who are misunderstood and picked on by the popular people who everyone looks up to."
The head lawyer frowns at the drone, "And where are we going to find a group of people who use our trade marks, are not very popular and are either hated , feared or detested by the masses?"
The drone smiles. "Computer geeks use the term 'bake-off' for software testing."
The head lawyer's eyes light up. "Drone 2974, you're a genius! Start the cease and desist letters immediately!"
</humor>
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
That's all this boils-down to. 'Bake-off' maybe trademarked, but it as become an integral part of English colloqial language. Should someone go out an trademark 'Blast-off', 'To the moon', or pick any other common yet trademarked term you use in everyday communication.
It's not the lawyers that are ruining the world, it's marketting. They think they invent everything.
Another trademark was stripped from Bayer in that treaty - Heroin.
See about.com's aspirin page.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Funny, yes, but before anyone gets any ideas, remember, you're messing with the FBI here. You're using a computer to mess with the FBI... Once they find out you've been lying, they'll come down on you as if you're Osama bin Ladin * pi. So don't do it from a library, do it from an ex-girlfriends comp or something...
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
It would be really nice if someone who got one of these threatening letters could post it. Certainly there is nothing in the Salon article to suggest that the Pillsbury complaint has a shred of merit, or that the case isn't being brought years too late. But without a copy of the actual claims, it's always a little dangerous to speculate; reporters sometimes miss something.
That said, I am having a lot of trouble even imagining what a meritorious claim for Pillsbury would look like on these facts.
Public relations fiasco, anyone?
I have a blog.
I just checked. You have a nice recipe waiting for you. From the look of the message-board I think it's a bad idea to flood it with spam, you would just piss of a bunch of people who enjoys sharing recipes. If you feel this is important go for the big boys instead, send polite letters explaining why you think they are fucking jerks.
--- oops
The fabulous Baker Boys?
Sherlock Holmes (who lived at Baker Street)?
Jerry Rafferty (who played "Baker Street")?
Kevin Bake-on?
Who knows? Lawyers know no bounds...
I don't think the phrase "b4k3-0ffz" is copyrighted yet.
Of course not. Don't be silly. That's Dubya's job now.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I think that we should start enforcing our "free trade", et cetera, economy and start shooting those who would oppose it. I think that starting off with the CEO of Pillsbury is a good start: He's trying to monopolize the market for the use of these words. Oh, what a jumbled world we live in... // Jester
Pillsbury's official bake-off contest site is at www.bakeoff.com. http://www.bake-off.com does not bring up anything. I think the term bake-off has a few centuries of usage as a generic term for a contest where the best compete against each other head-to-head in making something good from scratch. I would be very surprised if many other flour companies had not organized bake-offs (think county fairs) many times in the past. This looks like an incredibly stupid pr blunder on Pillsbury's part.
In related news, Bill Gates of microsoft announced he would be filling suit against the Pilsbury Dough-boy for wrongfully using the word "dough", which bill claims is the sole owner of.
Also in related News, Creative Labs had announced the sending out of Cease and Decists to Orchestra's around the world as a method to have said orchestra's stop blasting sound.
------------------------------------
re Old El Paso.
I'd bet the best picante sauce IS made in New York City.
(pun intended) - if Ben and Jerry in their infancy could bring Pillsbury / Haggen Dazs to their knees, this should be a steamroller for the engineers. This is what happens when lawyers don't learn to play Nintendo - they end up with waaaaay too much time on their hands. Anyone want to start a charity - "GCs for JDs"?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
"Let's have a f*** off instead!"
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The owner of this page had better watch out... he's liable to get a cease and desist order from Pillsbury just like rotten.com did for exhibiting the same image on their website.
This sig is umop apisdn.
Whats next in line? Them fining school "bake-offs" and such?
mmmm...
Well, I think there are enough /. readers with free time that we could really mess up the Pillsbury Message board by posting our thoughts there. Otherwise find an email address and tell them EXACTLY what we think.
--Another useless though from John--
Well, they may have removed yours, but the one requesting recipes for SPAM had me ROTFLMAO. And it got two responses, too!
thank you John, er, Spoonberry?
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
>So why aren't they suing comedy festivals?
Maybe they are? BTW: is sending a threating C&D letter the same a 'suing'?
>After all, that's the first url found by google.
Hmm... have to try others now and see if it is the same...
yahoo, altavista, excite and lycos all show pilsbury 1st
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
See here for some background on this issue, including the letters from Pillsbury.
15 U.S.C. s 1125(c) governing dilution provides at subsection (4)(B): 'The following shall not be actionable under this section: . . . Noncommercial use of a mark.' End of discussion
From the list linked to in the parent:
"Monopoly" for a real estate-trading board game
I think I'd still check with a lawyer before I release my own "Monopoly" game no matter what this list says.
There are other's on the list that I cannot believe were ever trademarked (e.g. Honey Baked Ham)
--
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
You know, it's really tough sometimes to figure out who to cheer for (yes, that's a parody, but with not a little basis in reality).
On a more serious note, isn't the phrase "bake-off" sufficiently descriptive that it may contradict guidelines on what is and isn't trademarkable? As the OSI found with their failed attempt to secure the "Open Source" trademark?
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
One thing I concluded from this article is that whoever owns Pillsbury must be really dumb. This is seriously aggrivating. Right when you think some people in this world, that own companies, might have some common sense in understanding...
See what happens when you let them loose?
-
Some time ago, this text circulated arount the net. It was funny then - how times change...
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Somebody should have their name legally changed to "Bake Off"
Then everybody can claim that "Bake Offs" are named after Mr. Off.
Or maybe just do as somebody else suggested, and rename it. I propose "Bae Koff"
After all, they invented web cookies.
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In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I'm going to start "The Inc." and sue everyone that uses the word "the".
If the legal dept. in your company is forced to create imaginary threats in order to justify it's existance and expense, then you have larger internal problems to worry about than somebody using your "name".
Yes, one day I may actually learn to spell...
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a copy of the Cease and Desist letter online, but you can see the patent here.
Funny, things are already changing though, if you look at this bake-off/cache-off page
--
RumorsDaily
I seem to remember reading the term "bake-off" applied to the windings of a transformer.
The wire is usually insulated with a "varnish". To "cure" the varnish, i.e., stabilise it, you run a current through the wire that heats it.
This completes the polymerisation, and presumably drives off any residual solvents.
The process of heating the wire or wound coil / bobbin is known as "baking off", or doing a "bake-off".
They better get in touch with these folks, too.
Dear God in Heaven, PLEASE let this be a joke. This is a hoax, right? Pillsbury isn't REALLY this stupid and asinine, is it? Their lawyeres aren't really this insane are they????????
I'll just have to boycott them. Whose with me?
Come on, you know being boycotted by a group that probably makes up 40% of their business would hurt the suckers, and it's not like boycotting the MPAA because there are a LOT of alternatives to Pillsbury products!
Let's go to the bulletin board on their web site and post what we think of them, shall we??
http://www.matthewmiller.net
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
they suggest a boycott in the article... "techno-wenies against the dough boy". we've got to start somewhere, and this looks like a good place to make a stand: it's completly obvious that there's no merit. the two industries are so unreleated that it'll be a clean decision with no questions.
Sitting Walrus Blog
I get tired of these "half-baked schemes" that lawyers put on so that they can grab every dime out of the computing industry.
These bakeoffs are heald to test compatability between products that use the Session Initiation Protocol, which is going to be used to route calls and media for the next generation of wireless devices (PDA's, Cell phones, etc). 3G wireless promises 2Mbps transfer rates with roll outs starting as early as this summer (for the Isle of Man atleast). Rock on.
just as we're thought things couldn't get more stupid - George W Bush is elected as US President. From here expect things to go downhill.
They are just doing to get World-Wide publicity for free, and all you dotty slashers have fallen for it, hook line and sinker.
When Apple was sued for using the word Sagan as a code-name for a project, Apple rename it Butt-Head Astronomer.
Anyone have any ideas for an alternative to bake-off?
From the article:
...No one is going to confuse protocol testing with cookies... "
"
umm, what if the protocol testing is regarding the cookies in yer browser? I'm already confused.
:)Fudboy
:)Fudboy
I guess I'm only a Fudboy, looking for that real Transmeta
Being a somewhat newbie techie, I don't always
know what certain things should be callled
I commend Pilsbury for helping me add to my
tech education. I now know what to call "events where engineers get together to test their implementations against each other."
I gotta wonder...
Is it possible they're just doing this for publicity?
After all, Spam is now a household name. This is just some scam to sell more cookies. Buy stock in Pillsbury now!
This slang term does not affect the strength of our trademark SPAM. In a Federal District Court case involving the famous trademark STAR WARS owned by LucasFilms,[sic] the Court ruled that the slang term used to refer to the Strategic Defense Initiative did not weaken the trademark and the Court refused to stop its use as a slang term. Other examples of famous trademarks having a different slang meaning include MICKEY MOUSE, to describe something as unsophisticated; TEFLON, used to describe President Reagan; and CADILLAC, used to denote something as being high quality.
So you can spam all your friends saying that the Teflon President's Mickey Mouse "Star Wars" program wasn't exactly the Cadillac of defense initiatives, and that's okay as long as you don't SPAM your friends with this info.
sulli
RTFJ.
Any LAWYERS in the house?
If so what on earth are you doing about this?
Lawyers follow money, it's true. But lawsuits like these are so widely percieved as absurd that I don't see how so many lawyers are taking the risk of bringing up these cases.
Please inform me! Is this similar to what can often happen in technical fields, when some buzzword or management strategy breezes through the magazine circut like a typhus epidemic, causing thousands of lawyers to chase trademark, copyright and patent cases all at once?
Or is there some movement in lawyers' organizations to protect people's rights, something like a jurisprudential EFF?
Goat sex free since 2001
http://www.mealtimeideas.com/bulletinboard/post.as p?recID=58521
very amusing: I got the lameness filter with my original title, "Spam / first post". From the filter: "Reason: What do you want? A medal?"
sulli
RTFJ.
Finally, a use for anonymous cowards.
All you ACs out there, go down to the public or school library and sneak your way onto a browser.
Wear a disguise, since they all have time lapse video now. Shave your legs so they are smooth and sexy, and wear a cheerleader outfit or something. Practice singing "We got spirit, yes we do, we got spirit, how about you".
Email an anonymous tip to the FBI, Microsoft and the SPI (or whatever that place is) stating that you are a sysadmin for Pillsbury, and your boss made you do 250 illegal installs of Office and NT last Wednesday in the Legal Dept. of the Pillsbury Corporate Offices.
Hee, Hee, Hee.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
If there were some slashdot award for most humorous post of all time, this would win.
Pillsbury could have done something nice instead aim to be Slashdotted for stupidity. It would have been cheaper to create something useful than it was to waste legal billing. If they wanted to be slashdotted, they might have made a GPL cookbook, calorie counter, anything. If they wanted to make news in a self interested way, they could have decreed they want to use some kind of Free software in their daily operations.
Pillsbury is much more than dough. They own the jolly green giant, ice cream, fast food, and all sorts of things that have nothing to do with baking. Thinking morons are in charge of such massive capital and wealth is not comforting, but it's not new to me either.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
And I wanted to be an engineer because of the free cookies!
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