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Some Demote Pluto To Non-Planet
Ravn0s writes "Pluto, subject of much controversy since it's discovery, has now been demoted from a planet. The Rose Center for Earth and Space, which opened last year at the American Museum of Natural History in New York is now saying that Pluto is not necessarily a planet at all but just a smallish lump of ice. Essentially, Pluto is now a largish comet. Details in this article." Other groups disagree, as the article points out.
Oh great! Take away our planets!! Dammit, whats next?!?!
I always disagreed with this analysis, but back in school, they told us that Australia was both.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Australasia's a continent; Australia is an island.
I didn't pay for my operating system either
Spelling errors tainted your response. No karma for you.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Why don't we sent a probe there, see if it gets captured by a tractor beam, and then we'll know if it's just an Imperial Ice Depot.
(BTW what's the radius of the Death Star?)
.
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
Goofy started out life as "Dippy Dog".
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Here's a quick list of the reasons I can remember off the top of my head:
- All of the planets beyond Mars consist mostly of a large atmosphere and planet-wide ocean (thus the semi-accurate label "Gas Giants")... except Pluto. Pluto is mainly rock and ice, with little or no atmosphere. Interestingly enough, Pluto does have an atmosphere, but it freezes during Pluto's "winter" and falls to the surface.
- All of the planets beyond Mars have a mass many times that of Earth; except Pluto. Pluto is roughly half the size of Earth's moon.
- All of the planets in our solar system have an almost planar orbit (ie, the orbits all lie within a few degrees of the same plane). Pluto's orbit is inclined over 15 degrees.
- Pluto's orbital radius is HUGE and highly erratic. About 49 times the average radius of Earth's orbit at it's peak.
Given these facts, Pluto clearly does not belong in the same category as the 8 planets. It does, however, fit nicely with objects in the Kuiper belt. The Kuiper belt is the collection of icy planetismals that were "kicked out" of the inner solar system instead of coalescing into planets. Their orbits are higly erratic and non-planar, and generally lie beyond the orbits of Neptune and Uranus.Hope this clears things up a bit...
--
odds of being killed by lightning and
Odds of being killed by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day: 1 in 2^55
Yeah, I was trying to decide whether or not that counted. Similar to whether or not South America and North America are still the same land mass, and whether or not Cape Cod is still a cape or is now an island.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
WHAT!!!! What fsck did she just send us!!! I used to know, but now it's just a blank!
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
When you call Pluto a comet it make me wanna vomit!! We must stop this now! These "scientists" are in the pocket of the "Big Planet" lobby that seeks to degrade and diminish the status of Pluto based on the size and icy composition.It's all president Bush's fault!! Stay out the Bushes!! Take my picture!!
Let's rename it "foster child".
I always wondered about pluto. They'd always estimated the size as small and when you look at some of our other outer planets (jupiter, neptune) they seem a bit large.
:)
Plus pluto is the only one with an irregular orbit. Irregular as in it kind of 'slopes' and crosses the orbit of other planets. But then again maybe other planets do the same but are so slight we just don't notice them.
I'd bet there are more objects like pluto out there that have attained a farily regular place in our solar system but we never bothered to look, or never noticed them in the first place.
Kind of makes you think if the earth just turned out to be one large asterioid that gathered mass and an o-zone.
Close, it is from the immense tidal (gravitational) forces imposed by Jupiter and the other moons.
Dave
``There is no scientific insight to be gained by counting planets,'' says Neil de Grasse Tyson, director of the Hayden Planetarium, the centerpiece of the Rose Center.
There is no signifigance in counting votes. There is no signifigance in counting days. There is no signifigance in counting people. There is no signifigance in counting processes per second. There is no signifigance in counting this person as a person.
``Eight or nine, the numbers don't matter.''
4+4=8 5+4=9 8=9 Cool. I think I got it.
You can take away all things that do not have signifigance...in your own life. One man's decision to call a planet any less than a planet for the world to accept as reality, is a man that should be considered liable for his credibilty and resolve his meaning with solid fact. His point is moot.
This is cool: My dad has an autographed copy of one of Clyde Tombaugh's books. He met him at an Astronomical Society meeting. Talked to him for about an hour about all things space. Clyde deserves respect and I have a cool father.
.
Then kindly explain to me how a comet can have a moon (Charon).
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Hemos? is that you?
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
It's been a while since I've gone through Slash, after I determined it wouldn't work on a website I was working on, I deleted it (small server) and haven't bothered playing around with it since.
And I quoted your sig so you could change it - at least, that was my theory.
(For anyone whos wondering, to lose 6 karma on a post, first get moderated up to +5, all those mod points will be lost in karma-cap limbo; then have someone point you out as a troll, and get moderated down to -1. Presto, net loss of 6 karma points. Which is really stupid, since posting at Score: 2 should only allow 3 points of karma to be lost.)
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
that one day orbiting celestial bodies will not be labeled and judged base on the materials they are made of. I see a day of gasses playing with solids and oh nevermind, why couldn't this article be posted a week ago ;-)
Really? I don't think that the exact shape of Ceres is completely known. Still, a quick google at the web indicates that Ceres is irregularly shaped, which says it is an asteroid.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Read the fg article! This is about one museum in New York that decided to label Pluto as a non-planet in a single display. This isn't the gathering of an astronomical society declaring Pluto a non-planet!
:)
Not that Pluto is a *real* planet anyway, but that's beside the point.
There are also rocks on pluto. If you think about it, what are the rest of the planets? Hunks of rock and ice. What should make pluto any different. And pluto has a diameter of 1375 miles (2200 km), not 2500 miles.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
...all I can say is, there are going to be some pissed off astrologers if this thing ends up being popularly reognized. Imagine having to explain to someone, "Okay, so you weren't exactly born under a planet, but..."
--
Feminism is the wild notion that women are human beings.
I bet the Ice People living near the core of pluto are gonna be pissed...
I bet this is Hemos's doing... 'cause we all know he is an Alien. After that Optical SETI crap, we should have expected this.
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
None of the planets orbit on the same plane, pluto's is just more uneven.
-Reid
The Rose Center says there is no universal definition of a planet...
Then make one! We shouldn't be debating whether Pluto is a planet, we should be debating what the definition of a planet should be. Then, Pluto will come out in the wash.
I can't believe people are getting territorial about Pluto.
Why is this news?
--
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
You could say that, but you'd be wrong. It's only 1,413 miles wide, smaller than the Moon, as you'd have discovered had you read the article. This has a lot to do with why the Rose Center demoted it.
I'd say a center devoted to astronomical education has a whole lot more authority to decide what is and is not a planet than the general public. Pluto has the composition of a comet and shares an orbit with 70 other objects that are definitely comets. Ergo it's a comet, albeit a large one.
And the brethren went away edified.
I'm quite interested in this, and I'm just a lowly hs student.
-Reid
... is that Pluto is the only "planet" discovered by an American, one Clyde Tombaugh if memory serves.
NASA is not an authoritative astronomical authority anymore than Wright Air Force Base.
NASA is not an authoritative astronomical authority anymore than Wright Air Force Base.
NASA is not an authoritative astronomica authority anymore than Wright Air Force Base.
they're not even a real planet anyway.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
>Sure, but there are a bunch of asteriods (the
>largest being Ceres which has a diameter of 933km)
>which also meet that criteria.
AFAIK Ceres has never been seen clearly enough to determine whether it is a spheroidal shape or not. In fact it transitted a star a while ago and the results indicated that it was surprisingly irregular. But I wouldn't exactly cry if Ceres counted as a planet anyway.
I'm not aware of any spheroidal asteroid that is smaller than Ceres either. If you have proof to the contrary, I would like to see it.
As for all your other points about pluto- so what. Every single body in the solar system appears to be completely different to every other.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Has always been a debatable issue. Nothing new here; I'm sure other museams that don't get the Yahoo! press have simmilar models floating around.
:P Geez! I guess only Mercury and Venus qualify now ;)
Pluto's a planet; we all accept that. So there are more ice objects called the Kupier belt... so now if there are rocks around the planet it's not a planet?
Guess the contenients must be islands since they are surrounded by water... this was a bone-headed move by the museam IMO
Karma whorin' since 1999
ACK!
everyone will need to make up new acronyms for the listing the planets!
How will kids learn the order of the planets now?
My Very Energetic Mom Just Sold Us Nothing?
Chris: [About Goofy] He can't be a dog. He wears a hat and drives a car.
--
Pluto is a dog, dumbass.
So, to paraphrase the Walrus, planet means exactly what we choose it to mean, no more and no less.
I think you're thinking of Humpty Dumpty, not the walrus.
He can orbit the sun, he can look like a moon
He can leave the ecliptic from April to June
He'll be just a faint smudge, magnitude twenty-three
He hides in the sky, but he's always a planet to me
Ohhh...a potato-shaped ball...
He can drift where he wants
He's a relic of time
Ohhh...if he's made of pure ice
Or of vapor and dust
It's the same to my mind
If he zooms in near us, would he show us a tail?
Was the Kuiper Belt once the great home whence he sailed?
And if he gets demoted, who'll be next, Mercury?
And the most he can do is cast shadows, it's true
But he's always a planet to me
Jamie McCarthy
Jamie McCarthy
jamie.mccarthy.vg
I'm not sure why anyone really cares. Regardless of pluto's official status, it has a given mass, and an orbital pattern which was discovered decades ago. The only people who care are the same sort of people who really think that there's a difference between addressing someone as a "maid" or a "houskeeper"...
...and because of that, I think I will have to applaud their actions.
Kids get things drilled into their heads, like how many planets there are. Instead they should be taught in a way that's a little less discreet such that they come to an earlier realization that the universe isn't black and white, any more than life is.
A friend of mine (who grew up and went to school in Japan) thought that there was only one moon, "The Moon." Again, I think this is reflective of a strict regimine of memorizing facts rather than exploring the wonders that our universe has to offer.
large enough to keep its own moon
It's to my understanding that there is no TRUE definition of a planet. So why not call Earth an asteroid, or even Saturn? What needs to be done is a set established guideline for what a planet really is, than we can settle this. I was taught that Pluto was a planet in school, and it still is being taught almost everywhere. I think the people who decided this wanted some attention.
My Very Patient Mother Just Served Us Nine ______
Served us nine what?!? We'll starve without the pizzas! We need Pluto to avoid world-wide starvation!
there were only 4 food groups
Whats the 5th food group??? Or did they finally promote beer?
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
All astronomers really know that planets are planets because they have Sailor Senshi. Setsuna Meiou is Sailor Pluto, therefore Pluto is a Planet.
QED.
I think a few astronomers are going to be listening to a "Dead Scream" in the near future.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
Do it for the children (if not for yourself).
Since these are standards we're talking about, they are facts by virtue of a formalised agreement in an international group of peers in their fields of study.
Countries get together and form an organisation which is assigned the authority for naming and measurement standards within a given field. By creating a formalised common language, they facilitate the unambiguous flow of information.
Using a completely different system causes a lot of problems, and isn't viable. Tweaking the system arbitrarily is nothing more than an ego-trip; a way of saying, "I'm important enough to follow my OWN rules!" while doing nothing of the sort. Or alternatively, it could be plain ignorance.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Weirdness? Uranus has an angle of dip more than 90 degrees! It spins the wrong way! You could go a long way to be weirder than that. Nobody has much clue how that could happen. Perturbing an orbit out of the ecliptic is trivial in comparison.
Ok, so Pluto's orbit is a bit skewed to the ecliptic. I can live with that. So it is tidally locked to its moon. Even the earths moon is tidally locked, and the earth will be locked to the moon as well eventually if nothing happens to stop it. These are not exactly hugely unusual.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"...is the obvious fact that demoting Pluto to a mere Kuiper Belt object runs the grave risk of offending its namesake, the dread Lord of the Underworld. I have yet to see any respectable scientist propose the obvious solution to this problem: to ameliorate Pluto, several fattened heifers should be slaughered in sacrifice on the steps of the Rose Center. I'm shocked, shocked that these scientists would risk angering the god; the last time someone (namely, Persephone) did so, Demeter plunged the Earth into famine, and ulimately the seasons were split in two.
Old Dispute, old news.
This argument has been going on forever. What makes a planet, a planet? Who cares. Even minor-planets are planets.
~~K
Why do these people feel the need to reclassify Pluto??? It's been a planet for 70 years now, and what difference could it possibly make whether it's a snowball on steroids or a planet? It'll remain a planet to darned near everyone on the planet, except people who try to get their names in the record books by screwing around with established custom. Live and let live.
...its a planet. What does NASA say about the planetary status of Pluto? Actually, who cares what these guys think. Like someone else said, Society has already accepted Pluto as a planet. Thats the way it'll stay.
There are a whole bunch of reasons to not consider Pluto to be a planet:
- Pluto has a composition unlike any other planet. It most closely resembles Triton (a moon of Neptune).
- Pluto has an orbit which is unlike any other planet. It's orbit is inclined 17 degrees, and is high eccentric - it is sometimes closer to the Sun than Neptune. It's orbit is similar to at least 70 other Kuiper belt objects.
- It's "moon", Charon, is in a synchronous orbit (it's position is fixed relative to Pluto's surface). No (other) planet in the solar system has a natural satelitte in synchronous orbit.
- Pluto is far smaller than any other planet. It is half the size of Mercury and only two-thirds the size of our Moon. It is likely that many other Kuiper belt objects will be of similar size.
- Pluto is also very light in terms of mass. Current estimates put it's mass at around 1/500 of Earth's.
Jupiter has a metallic core (as do all the other gas giants). In my view the two most damning factors are the orbit and the size of Pluto. Composition is of lesser concern. Note that we don't know for sure that Pluto doesn't have a rock or metal core, it's density is higher than that of the ices that it is thought to be primarily composed of (nitrogen, methane, and carbon monoxide).For reference, here is the 2 year old CNN article about how the International Astronomical Union was/is considering reclassifying Pluto as a minor planet (like many asteriods). They decided against it. This is a really good article from Sky and Telescope covering the debate.
Now to be moderated down for bashing SlashDot and wondering about the poster's sanity. Oh yeah, and as they said: THIS ONE'S ALREADY BEEN POSTED!
My karma's bigger than yours!
SIG: HUP
That would be the Plutonians. The Plutonians are sick and tired of being ignored.
It's a very special "comet" though. How many comets do you know have their own moons?
The International Astronomical Union decides on the status on solary system objects, and it issued a press release in *1999* regarding the status of Pluto. It can be found here. While the IAU did not specifically say Pluto is or is not a planet, it certainly did not officially demote Pluto to a minor planet, or assign it to the class of TNOs. Officially, Pluto *is* a planet. Until the IAU comes to an agreement to demote Pluto to a minor planet or TNO, it should be considered the ninth planet. Removing Pluto from displays about "the planets" or changing discussions to "the eight planets of the solar system" is confusing and unnecessary.
Pluto is NOT mostly ice : it has the density of TWICE water (and ice is less dense than water). It has a rocky crust! It has an atmosphere! It has a moon! What more can you ask?!
This Tyson fella should be brought up to the next American Astronomical Society (AAS) meeting and asked to repent.
Besides, nobody is going to listen him anyway.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
...small minds cant see past Uranus!
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
This seems like old news to me. Prehaps some other orginization demoted Pluto some 10 odd years ago. All I really remember is that there are asteroids in the asteroid belt that are bigger than Pluto.
Everything you know is wrong. Black is white and up is down.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
Troll?
Ok, that's just not nice...*sniff* Now my feelings are hurt...:-( (tm)
You are free to break the chains of fate that bind you.
To me Pluto will always be a planet.
Why? Well it has a moon. I mean how many comets have moons? Pluto also has an atmosphere too. And
it revolves around the sun.
So what does this mean? That Pluto is infact a planet. Plus there are many school books out today that teach kids that Pluto is a planet, so what are you going to do, go to each school and make them teach every kid that Pluto is not a planet.
Pluto has all the characteristics of a Kupier belt object. Why not call it a Kupier belt object?
Man, you leave school and there are 6 continents and next thing you know there are 7 and they renamed them! I expect it depends a lot on where you live - in the UK no-one talks about "Eurasia" ;)
I didn't pay for my operating system either
Apart from being the largest "island", Australia sits on its own continental plate (shared with India, often referred to as the "sub-continent"), so it is also the smallest "continent". There isn't an exact correlation between plates and continents, otherwise Arabia and perhaps the Carribean would also be "continents".
Pluto is a planet, regardless of what it is made of or how big it is. It may be a "minor planet" like the main body of asteroids, but it is still a planet since it orbits the Sun, not another planet (which would make it a moon.) It's the largest known member of the Kuiper Belt, just as Ceres is the largest known asteroid. I don't hear people complaining that Ceres isn't a (minor) planet, so why pick on Pluto?
Given that NASA is trying to can the Pluto-Kuiper Express project in favour of playing silly buggers on Mars, the "demotion" of Pluto seems awfully convenient... "It's not a planet, so who cares?"
I think this is a good thing. I was always annoyed seeing perfect good astological predictions messed up by the addition of all these new planets. Seven planets is nice and symetrical.
If Isaac Newton didn't need Pluto for his astrology, we shouldn't need it for ours.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
The Sinclair ZX-80 has been demoted to a programmable calculator and is no longer considered a computer.
This isn't new news. However, I for one, am glad that it is finailly being recognised
as not a planet. Then we can have 3 bits to describe a planet instead of 4. What a god damn waste.
An extra bit for 1 lousy planet.
000 = mercury, 001 = venus, 010 = earth, 011 = mars,
100 = jupier, 101 = saturn, 110 = uranus, 111 = neptune
Now, we can have the msb in the nibble for specifying if we
are in the regular universe, or an upside-down universe.
It could work like this: struct _universe { char* name; unsigned char universe_num : 4; unsigned char is_crazyuniverse : 1; unsigned char planet : 3; };
/. editors might be sloppy lately, but the titled did state "SOME demote Pluto....".
So RTFH (RTF Headline)
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
The way I learned it was My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets. Where I come from, we call the third planet "Earth".
You must be from that 9th planet out there. I'm glad to hear you call us Pluto. What do you call yourself?
PS: Sorry about the demotion, mate
Mmmm.. Donuts
But most countries are not islands. Thats why Australia is refered to as the worlds largest island.
"Go into the hall of mirrors and have a bloody hard look at yourself" - HG Nelson
Yeah...the Plutonians...and the Grecians...and the Kosovanians.
What we need is compassionate astronomy. Comets hurled toward Earth by Pluto's gravity should be cared for and adopted --- not brutally diverted with nukes before they can ever smash a continent.
YOU KILLED HALLE-BOPP!!! YOU BASTARDS!!!
And Jupiter is just one big mass of gas.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Theres 5 Food groups? All I have known is Dr.Pepper and "Kroft" dinner
It could be argued that Jupiter isn't a "planet" at all but is really a failed star. It's rotation is too fast given it's size (8.8 hours). It emits more than twice the energy it should if it was just reflecting light. And it has no visible surface. Finally it greatly affects the bodies orbiting around it. For example Io is made vulcanic from Jupiters magetic influence.
Mercury has not atmosphere and should be reclassified as a moon....
See how it starts? Now make your own argument debunking the other orbiting gas balls and big rocks.
And Uranus is just one big mass of gas?
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I would say that the International Astronomical Union is in a better position to decide the status of Pluto then ANY museum, which is what the Rose Center for Earth and Space is a part of, especially one that has only been open for a year.
When the International Astronomical Union chooses to relabel Pluto as something other then a planet, then I will also consider it differently. Until that time Pluto remains a PLANET.
Have Fun.
So if Australia had a civil war and broke into two countries, would it stop being an island?
Care about freedom?
I'd rather be lucky than good.
The Plutonians are sick and tired of being ignored.
As their "element" is plutonium maybe ignoring them is not such a good idea...
awww.. isn't that sweet
"moo" - cow 3, 1906
And Canada isn't a real country anyway.
How, you might wonder, do these guys determine what the influence of, say, Uranus is on your chart? When the planet is discovered they cast charts of people and events including the newly discovered object, and work those charts backward to see if there are any consistent patterns of influence. They also take hints from the object's properties (color, distance, size, etc.) on the assumption that things are conveniently labelled for us by a consistent Nature (the "law of signatures").
Anyway, Pluto or no Pluto, now that the Age of Pisces is definitely over we can finally look forward to the demise of Christianity and its replacement with something more, well, Aquarian :-)
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
You, sir, are an absolute fuckin tard, not two ways about it.
"moo" - cow 3, 1906
Well, if it's a matter of simple mass causing it to not be a planet, we could send all of those AOL CDs and DVDs that make such great coasters to this would-be planet and beef it up a bit...
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
All continents are islands.
At least one asteroid does. But even so, Charon is awfully big for a moon. No other planet has a moon that's so large relative to it, and the two bodies are more or less in a position of orbiting each other. In any event, I don't see how any of this disqualifies Pluto from comet-hood.
And the brethren went away edified.
Perhaps it is the cynic in me, but semantic arguments are pretty stupid. Argue about what something *is* not about what it is *called*. Pluto is a very large ball of ice. Perhaps we could argue about something interesting like how it formed or whether its orbit is decaying. Jeez, sometimes I think you guys are just upset because that diorama (sp?) you got an A+ on in the fifth grade was wrong.
-Moondog
Comets have tails. Pluto doesn't have a tail. Also, it's alone and has a definable orbit. By most definitions it is a planet, but apparently these astronomers have no respect for small details, which is why most of them flunked astrophysics.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Yoda: Judge me by my size?
DUH!
My karma's bigger than yours!
SIG: HUP
To my mind a planet is something that is made round by its own gravity, and is in orbit around a star.
Clearly under that definition Pluto counts as a planet. Pluto even has a moon called Charon.
The fact that Pluto is made of ice is irrelevant- Jupiter is made of gas. Does that mean Jupiter isn't a planet?
Anyway check out:
http://www.iau.org/PlutoPR.html for TNOs and other good stuff.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"That's the surface. Water, solid or liquid, comprises only a very small portion of the total composition of the Earth.
And the brethren went away edified.
LOL!
Funniest in a while.
Australasia is the term for asia-pacific. Australasia refers to more than just the island of australia and tasmania. It also includes Indonesia, Taiwan, and other asian islands. (ex-resident)
---
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
Pluto's out there thinking to itself "Who do those bastards think they are? I'll show you a planet, beeyotch!" and starts hurling comets from the Oort cloud. Damn scientists.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
..I demoted pluto to a non character a long time ago. I mean shit, if pluto is a dog, and goofy is a dog, then why hell can goofy walk and talk (and get laid and have kids!) and pluto can't?!
Pluto will always be a planet to me no matter what some asstronomers say.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
Mickey Mouse's dog was gay?
-------------- Sig files are stupid...
I could say that Pluto is just a 2,500 mile-wide hunk of ice. It won't do anything; it's already been absorbed into the general public that yes, Pluto IS a planet.
Too bad we don't know much about it, though.
I know I was taught Europe was it's ownn continent. And that some people wanted India to be it's own continent.
But why is Europe considered a continent? India is at least on a different techtonic plate than asia. I don't beleive that's the case with Europe and Asia.
Dare I speculate that the reason Europe is considered it's own continent is due to the history of our planet's continents? Please, someone tell me there's a better reason.
I'm not bashing Pluto, but I really don't mind having eight planets. They argue how they should define a planet, whether by size or orbit type.
...and I'm not sure we should trust this Kyle Sagan either.
I just think we should define a planet as an object of a certain mass and diameter (Pluto's size or larger) that orbits on a similar plane as the other more noticable planets.
Instead of it's wierd tilted orbit.
Just my opinion.
Pluto is unique in the fact that it was the only planet not discovered and/or named by a European.
The Greeks named the first 5 extraterrestrial planets, and Europeans named Uranus and Neptune. But Pluto was discovered by Clyde Tombaugh in Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona, in 1930.
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
"Got Linux?"
of the Disney company. It's also a God.
...
While this may all be old news, we need to understand that the International Astronomy Society gets to decide these things, and that is not a scientific process, but a political process disguised as science.
Just as Pluto is a Dog disguised as a Trademark. And Dog spelled backwards is
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
North America? South America? Europe? I don't think so.
So, to paraphrase the Walrus, planet means exactly what we choose it to mean, no more and no less.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Astronomers have labeled Kuiper Belt objects with a 2:3 orbit resonance with Neptune "Plutinos" which Pluto is the largest one so far. An interesting site to see what "stuff" is floating about our solar system is:
m l
m l
t ml
For a plot of the outer solar system (Jupiter outwards)
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/OuterPlot.ht
For a plot of the inner solar system (Jupiter to the sun)
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/InnerPlot.ht
For a plot of the innermost solar system (Mars to the sun)
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/InnerPlot2.h
(Please ignore the spaces in ".html", don't know how to get rid of them. Gomen Nasai.)
they'll be saying the moon isn't made of cheese next!
And that my friends, IS the point ... Which is all the more reason this topic doesn't belong on Slashdot TWICE!
My karma's bigger than yours!
SIG: HUP
What looks to be shaping up is this:
- Stellar objects are those that have condensed from galactic gas clouds. This includes ordinary stars, brown dwarfs, and possibly the new rogue planets that have been uncovered far from any parent star
- Planetary objects are those that have condensed from the protoplanetary disk surrounding new stellar objects in the early stages of formation
Under these definitions, stars and brown dwarfs are stellar objects (or just "stars"). So are the rogue planets that have been recently found, if it turns out that they condensed directly from interstellar gas and dust. Hot, massive Jupiters, Pluto, other comets and asteroids are planetary objects, and so are their moons, if any (you can call these "planets").The discovery of the rogue planets turns out to be a recent key to this puzzle. It appears they formed directly from a collapsing interstellar dust/gas cloud, rather than in a protoplanetary disk surrounding a newly formed star. It appears that objects of any size can be formed this way, not just stars and brown dwarfs. To the limits of our ability to see, we are finding smaller and smaller objects that are planet-sized, even Moon-sized, but formed in a completely different environment. We can only see them shortly after they form, while they are still radiating with the heat of collapse.
So size, mass and orbit may turn out to be not so useful in classifying objects as stars or planets. The process by which they formed looks like it will turn out to be the more meaningful way to classify them.
Edith Keeler Must Die
Did not.
--Ben
Come on, what's the criteria for a planet? Oh, you don't have anything scientific? Oh, you just want publicity because you just opened for business?
All previous definitions went out the window a couple weeks ago when they found that planet which was so large, it was previously thought impossible to attain.
Sure the Oort cloud has plenty of moon-sized comets. Sure other things orbit the sun along the same plane and in nicely padded mostly non-overlapping elliptical orbits.
I'm not one to grand-father in a scientific fact, but jeeze, leave Pluto alone until you've got a reasonable and accepted definition.
No. Australia is a continent. The definition of a continent is fairly arbitrary, but basically it means a large, continous mass of land. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica the continents are North America, South America, Africa, Antartica, Australia, Asia, and Europe. Asia and Europe are sometimes combined into the single continent Eurasia. While Australia is often considered an island, it is four times larger than the next biggest (non-continental) island, Greenland.
Since /. loves conspiracey theories, I'll share one...
We've sent probes to every planet in the solar system, except pluto. Ah ha! Clearly, we need to send a probe to the only planet we haven't explored yet. This is exactly the argument some people (including professional astronomers, NASA policy folks, etc.) use in trying to justify a proposed mission that still hasn't been funded, the Pluto-Kuiper Express. If pluto is demoted to a Kuiper belt object, the "necessity" of that mission (which some people have already spent years of their career on) is gone. Hence the ridiculous tenacity of some astronomers and even the IAU to insisting that Pluto is a planet.
Personally, I think sending a space probe to a couple of Kuiper belt objects is a worthy goal in and of itself. I have no objections if one of them is Pluto/Charon. Indeed there is some urgency since it's getting harder/more expensive to do such a mission because Pluto is receding from Earth in it's very long period orbit.
In any case, I think as soon as the mission is launched (or maybe once it's finished visiting Pluto), you'll find most astronomers who previously resisted the idea will be much more willing to admit it makes more sense to call it a kuiper belt object.
Pluto a dog????
see
http://www.solarsystem.com/planets/pluto.htm
Planet Pluto is the coolest and most far out planet in the Solar System. Pluto was known as the god of the dead in Roman mythology. The Romans sometimes called him Dis Pater or Orcus, and the Greeks sometimes called him Pluton. Pluto was also known as Hades, the Greek god of the dead. The Romans borrowed almost all the myths and legends about Pluto and his affiliation the the underworld that he ruled from the Greeks.
Although I see you're where you're coming from...
I beleive it would make more sense to say that desparately clinging to the idea that Pluto fits in the category of planets better than the category of Kuiper Belt objects tends to be associated with people who have an interest in the Pluto-Kuiper Express happening.
I would place the odds at better than 1000:1 that if Pluto were discovered today (now that we know of hundreds of similar objects), it would be considered a Kuiper belt object. It's status as a planet is only an artifact of history.
Australia is no longer a continent, it has instead been demoted to an island!
My karma's bigger than yours!
SIG: HUP
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/OuterPlot.htm l
If pluto didn't have a special symbol, and orbit drawn for it, could you pick out Pluto as different from other Kuiper belt objects?
Usually all the hype is about possible brand new planets being discovered. But I guess it's not 'cool' to be like the crowd... it's 'in' to be a rebel... and so Pluto gets demoted.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
(now to see if the moderators are sluts or virgins....)
www.eFax.com are spammers
Kids. K for Kuiper belt object :)
I rang, you rang, we all rang for orangutang!
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
"And in the year 2003 you're going to see the NASA Pluto Express fly by and take pictures of your way cool surface to send to this web page address: h t t p colon slash slash d o s x x dot colorado dot edu slash plutohome dot h t m l You've got your own web page! For a little guy, you've made quite a splash!"
The NASA scientists I was working for at the time, explained to me that the real issue in planetary status was not size or location, but how and when Pluto was formed. Which was why they were very excited about the Pluto/Kuiper Express mission, which has now been put on hold.
Dave
I mean, who are these losers? How many AUs is Neil Tyson's head up his ass?
OK, so I'm not being polite. I'm sick and fucking tired of people (especially educators and scientists) who should know better declaring whatever they damned well feel like, regardless of the facts.
Here then are some facts that deserve to be spread and repeated, until they replace the incorrect versions.
FACT: Pluto is a planet. The INTERNATIONAL Astronomical Union (not some fucking museum in the US) says so.
FACT: The 13th element on the periodic table is aluminium, not aluminum. IUPAC has confirmed it time and time again, regardless of what the bloody ACS says.
FACT: A meter is a device. A metre is a unit of measure.
And so on.
*grumblefuck*
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
First they have Pluto living outside in a dog house while Goofy, who's a dog too, gets to sit in a cozy living room. Now this?
Seems there's no respect for Plutos any more.
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as an AC since 1997
Kissimmee, Florida-- After many months of exercising and maintaining a healthy diet, Pluto, the loveable dog of Mickey Mouse, has finally met his goal weight. "He struggled with it for a while, at first," says his proud and famous owner, "but cutting his intake of doggie treats has brought him back down to an acceptable weight."
"We look forward to seeing him act in movies again," Mickey's girlfriend, Minnie, added. And so do we all...
--
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/22/144223 0&mode=thread
http://slashdot.org/articles/99/01/19/0928238_F.sh tml
Always same subject ! Something new... Never except for IT (Ginger)
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
Some group will try to assert that Greenland isn't really a continent.
Wait. Greenland isn't a continent??? But it looks so much bigger than Australia on my map!!!
Seriously, it doesn't matter if people call it a planet or not. It's still there, and it will continue to orbit the sun for the forseeable future. This is not news.
When i was younger (im still in my early 20s) there were only 4 food groups, now there are 5. There were 9 planets, now only 8. How can i get the authority to split food groups or demote planets?
"I don't need a compass to tell me which way the wind shines." - Mr. Furious, Mystery Men