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SCI FI Channel To Produce Dune Sequel
Sardaukar writes: "In his first interview since completing the script for Frank Herbert's Children of Dune, Frank Herbert's Dune writer-director John Harrison revealed that the new miniseries will be adapted from both Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, the second and third books in Frank Herbert's best-selling series." I think the first miniseries is pretty impressive, which bodes well for the second.
Did anyone else notice how the actors in the original miniseries seemed to think they were in some sort of play? Listen to the way the enunciate their lines and completely stilt the dialog. Watch the poses the strike when the bad guys say something evil (right before they cackle evily). Watch the lighting change colors and shift based on the mood of the moment. This is the sort of mellodrama that really hurt the miniseries for me.
Just my 2 grams of spice.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
I read the internet for the articles.
Guess I had Stranger in my head from the parent post. This'll learn you never to try and sound intelligent following your run.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I can stand a book that takes it's time to build tension (esp. in reflection of the Overlook's complete isolation), but the movie just confused me until later on when I got around to reading the book -- I didn't get the guy in the dog suit, for instance, until I read about him. Kubrick, regardless of the spelling of his name, would have been better off with just misc. self-explanatory hotel ghosts.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Niven's stories are almost always entertaining while you're reading them, but the guy couldn't write an end to a story to save his life; I always felt jipped when I came to the end of a book.
Also, he falls into that Heinlein trap of not being able to bear killing his characters (tell me Lazarus shouldn't have died at the end of Stranger -- tell me that last chapter wasn't the most tacked-on POS you've ever read). Sure, he offed Teela, but I think it was just because he didn't know waht else to do with her -- Louis Wu and friends were always safe. I understand that it's nice to carry over all the really developed characters, but c'mon...
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
That miniseries was absolutely painful -- I watched the whole thing just waiting for it to improve, and yet somehow the acting managed never to improve. Christ, the guy playing Paul made a certain young Jedi look like academy award material.
I think the real trouble is they tried to be *too* faithful to the book. It should be obvious that certain things work in print that just don't translate (and, actually, vice versa). I think whoever wrote the screenplay was too reverant to the whole Dune mythos to understand that someplace between that terrible movie and this terrible miniseries would lay a good screen interpretation.
I can only hope for major overhauls; I don't think I could watch another miniseries like that last one. They'll have exactly one episode to change my mind.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Look, there are elements which make a great book and elements which make a great movie. Very few of these elements are in common between the two.
The best movie/book combinations are those in which the screenwriter uses the book for inspiration, then feels free to adjust the staging and the story in a way which will play well on film. Take Fight Club, for instance, or High Fidelity: same basic story, same basic themes, but the movie was a good movie because the changes needed for good translation were made.
On the other hand, think of the really close-to-the-book movies you've seen. Tend to suck, don't they? They either run really, really long or shave out a lot of the entertaining bits.
Of course, this isn't to say that all movies reinterpreted from books end up well, either: American Psycho (the movie) missed the raw, revolting, sarcastic nature or the book. The Shining (Kuberick's) was *boring*. Etc.
Still, I maintain that the only way to make these watchible is to roll the dice and take a chance to make them really entertaining on-screen instead of just lifting directly from the book.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I just got done watching the Dune miniseries that I had bought on DVD. Terrible. I mean, it was all I could do to watch the first episode, then I had to take a two week break to psyche myself up to see the next two. I mean, I suppose it is no worse than any other TV sf, but to hype it up as this wonderful reinterpretation of Dune is ridiculous. David Lynch's masterpiece (better than the book, IMO) already did Dune right the first time. There was no need for the first miniseries, much less the sequel. The first series was cheeseball enough.
Given this topics has long since died, I doubt you'll see this, but a lot of what you hated, I liked. Dune is impossible to make sense of in a film, so why try? The almost surreal Lynch version is freakier than the real Dune ever dreamed of being. Things like the deformed navigators (who were just humans with really blue eyes in the book) really upped the ante and you'll have to admit that the sf channel miniseries borrowed as heavily from Lynch as Herbert in this and many other regards.
PS: If you want to pick on stillsuits, pick on the whole concept of them.
I'm frankly somewhat worried about the titles of the parts: I could sort of see the Messiah one (and it might be interesting to be trying to save someone other than yourself), but the Children of Dune one is just too much. I don't want to know how that guy ends up with children...
Well let's put it this way:
Paul turned out to be a megalomaniac who ended up (ultimately) getting himself into deeper water than he could swim in. He couldn't handle the pressure of being "The Messiah", and eventually was banished into the desert of Dune because of his inability of dealing with the very Jihad he himself created.
His son, named Leto II (not to be confused with the child that was killed off in the original book [and movie]), ended up getting covered in sand trout and he eventually took over... for about 1500 years. *That* guy turned out to be a major son of a bitch as far as controlling the universe goes.
At any rate, read the books... they are *very* interesting, but you run into the danger of getting an inferiority complex since Frank Herbert's writing tens to be condescending to begin with. Add that to the fact that all he wrote about were super-human beings who denegrated the "Regular" human race at every turn, and what you get is a rather depressing outlook on life.
There's my 2 cent version of a book review. :)
--- Journals are boring; Go to my web page instead
It's great to see this new miniseries, but why would you adapt TWO stories into one series, rather than preserving the second (actually third) story for an additional miniseries...Strange
IIRC, The book Dune itself was actually first serialized as two distinct serials, called something like Dune World and Prophet of Dune.
I've heard second hand a funny anecdote about Frank Herbert proclaiming after each of his books that the complete Dune saga had now been told -- and a smartass radio host playing back for him a tape of all these statements when he came on to tout one of his later volumes.
The new designs simply don't work. They just don't communicate to the viewer the same level of decadence that the film version did. This sort of thing works well enough for camp like Dr. Who or The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
However for Dune, it just doesn't go well with the story or it's themes.
A Dune miniseries really should have been something of a mix between what SciFi did and what the film was. SciFi should have also given a classic like Dune a real budget.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I'm frankly somewhat worried about the titles of the parts: I could sort of see the Messiah one (and it might be interesting to be trying to save someone other than yourself), but the Children of Dune one is just too much. I don't want to know how that guy ends up with children...
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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Funny, those were my two biggest problems with the horrible Lynch movie. At least in the miniseries (a) Paul appears to be a human, rather than Lynch's Paul where it didn't really matter who the actor was since the character wasn't human, and (b) the atmosphere in the miniseries seems like the atmosphere of Arakis rather than the atmosphere of Hollywood. The miniseries had costumes that were goofy but plausible (in fact rather historical), the movie had costumes that were goofy and far more hysterical than historical. I did think the movie did have some better acting than the miniseries: that of several of the minor characters (who are ignored way too much but oh well), but Paul in the movie sucked so bad it that if you take an average, the average acting in the miniseries was much better.
I'll take the "whiney" Paul over the inhuman icon any day.
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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
If they're going to fix it like you fixed an animal (Uh, that was already done, thank you!) they can forget about it... :-)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
>why would you adapt TWO stories into one series
Herbert himself did this, by writing
Dune, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune
concurrently. Dune Messiah and Dune have
so many story elements in common that it
must be a challenge to keep a screenplay
interesting. The books keep your attention
on other levels besides plot and local color,
but a movie adaptation has different issues.
Now, if someone wants to produce God Emperor,
I'd just LOVE to see a good, cruel yet benign, Leto II.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
>scifi soaps such as Star Wars
If you compare and contrast elements of
Star Wars and Dune, you may find similarities
that will turn your stomach. Parts of the Star Wars universe and some key plot elements are quite obviously inspired by Dune.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
>I don't watch TV, so I don't know how the first >mini-series went.
I don't watch TV either, much, and certainly not
enough to be able to catch an entire miniseries.
I bought the Dune release on DVD, and hope that
all these things are released on DVD, as it's
the only way I'll see the whole series.
I love the Dune production because it undoes
some of the damage done by the Lynch debacle.
At least the sci-fi channel screenwriters
seem to have actually read the book first.
It appears they may have a different understanding of certain subtleties (and not-so
subtleties) of the story and the setting, but
it isn't really annoying. A few details of the
miniseries show an outstanding respect for the
novel.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
And if you made it as long as you suggest it'd take, only the hard core sci-fi'ers would spend their time watching it. We all seem to be forgetting that these people still have to produce something which would appeal to 75% or more of their target viewing audience. If you made it ungodly long (without making it a full-blown series) it'd be difficult to keep the viewing audience involved. It's hard to get most sobs to invest a lot of time in something that will not last. Sad, but true.
Also, a number of comments have been made about the wardrobe, etc...stuff that I will call the "stylistic" nature of the miniseries' approach to the story telling. I actually quite enjoyed the pomp of the costumes of those in the royal court and the great houses. This contrasted very well with the simplicity of Fremen existance.
Also, the miniseries' overall use of color, light, and darkness was very compelling. The scene that stands out in my mind is the final fight scene between Paul and the Harkonnen Nephew (damn...not Sting! what the hell was his name...grr...) There is a rising platform/dolly shot that shows your the fighters from an offangle overhead. The lighting consisted only of two powerful lights streaming in through the doorway. The contrasting light and dark lines were phenomenal.
All that said, yes, I liked it, but I also recognize a lot of the problems (don't even get me started on some of the "desert" sets.)
It's best to think of the book, the movie, and the mini-series as separate tellings of the same story. Each storyteller brings new details, and covers others. I think we're all just a little too caught up in the absolutivity of the book, because Herbert wrote it. Herbert created a universe that many people have taken and expanded in many directions. I think this is what Frank wanted, and is the best tribute that can ben given to the man.
Acually, Lucas and Chris Claremont (yeah, the X-Men writer) co-wrote three books continuing the story of Willow. In order, they're Shadow Moon, Shadow Dawn, and Shadow Star. Who knows how much Lucas contributed besides the basic story.
I read the first. I don't remember much. It was pretty good, but it wasn't Dune or A Canticle for Leibowitz.
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how to invest, a novice's guide
I don't know why EVERY single time a book is made into a movie there's a grumpy guy going "the movie sucked ass". Is this part of human nature or something? Is there a gene for this? And if there is, can we breed that out because it's frickin' annoying.
I liked the first miniseries a whole lot. Yes, I've read the books, and I know that things were changed. But big deal! What were you expecting from television? Every medium is different, and I hate to break it to you, a TV show is not a book. You can do things in books that you can't do in television. So when you say that the Dune miniseries "sucked ass" were you thinking to yourself "this Dune isn't nearly as good or artistic as 'Golden Girls'?" I can personally think of only a few things that "sucked ass" less than the Dune miniseries, such as Babylon 5. Actually, that's about the only one I can think of.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Except in the scene where the Baron pulls the heartplug of a slave; He shows revulsion while the Baron isn't looking at him, while Beast Rabban looks on with glee.
The only problem though, is that your making a movie about a very complex and strange subject. Dune isn't your average piece of literature, but when the person who wrote it isn't around for consulting there might be misinterpretations and mistakes. I'm not saying that the author has to be there to make it a good movie, it just helps. I really enjoyed the first miniseries, but even then, it had a book, another movie, and so on to go from.
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Insert Witty Sig Here
"I see blue-eyed people"
I think he'd be about the right age.
I recall Leto stops aging after merging with
the sandworms, but grows a big tail.
I recall ancestral memory plays a much bigger role
in the subsequent novels. In the first novel it
is mainly the future visions. It is somewhat
difficult to depict inner mental processes on the screen.
Do you get someone who can morph into different
voices and faces like the commedian Rich Little,
or Steve Martin in "All of Me"?
Do you show possession like in The Exorcist?
Or else little figures of talking ancestors standing on ones shoulder?
It's great to see this new miniseries, but why would you adapt TWO stories into one series, rather than preserving the second (actually third) story for an additional miniseries...Strange
The second two books really do go together. The stories follow each other closely in time and the conclusion of the arc really is at the end of the third book. They also share a lot of characters and locations, which makes it advantageous to film them together.
I am worried they'll have to cram more to stay at 6 hours, though.
I always thought that there were two stories in the Silmarillion that could be made into good movies after the LOTR: 1) Beren and Luthien 2) Turin Turambar (though it would be a dark movie seeing how everyone dies unhappily). I think that Beren and Luthien especially could stand on its own with a minimal amount of changes. These are the two stories that Tolkien himself wrote several times as standalone stories in many diferent formats (prose, poetry, elvish, etc)
despite the fact that, on a number of points, the scifi "Dune" miniseries really and truly sucked ass, it was impressive that it was done as well as it was, and that it was produced at all.
hopefully the subsequent sequels will at least live up to the first production, and not go down hill as sequels tend to do
tho, even the subsequent books drifted off track a bit from the original...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Actually, the games from Westwood were Dune 2 (the birthplace of RTS games), and its refresh, Dune 2000. There was another Dune game before Dune 2, however (thus the name "Dune 2"). It was an adventure/strategy game. I don't remember who the developer was, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were also Westwood. Anyway, the graphics were quite good for the time, and it was a rather fun game to play. There's a new adventure game based on Dune in the works, and hopefully it will follow in the footsteps of that original Dune game.
And no, it wasn't an FPS, and Id didn't develop it. Dune would suck as an FPS, because most fighting was done via knives (steel or crys).
I've often thought that The Silmarillion would make an interesting series of animated films, intended to be shown as a series, but with each one being independent enough to stand somewhat on its own...
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed Dune but felt that the rest of the series sucked ass.
now I can die in peace.
1) It's supposed to be HOT on Arakis - if that's so why was virtually the entire cast running around without still suits for the whole damn series? Why were windows to the castle open??? At least get the setting of the series right!
2) Why the hell are all the Fremen fat? Let's take for instance Chani, whom many people seem to think looked more "desert-like" than Sean Young in the movie. Give me a break. Chani was supposed to be able to kick ass - the series actress looked like she'd have a hard time opening a can of pop. She was carrying _way_ too much weight around for someone who is living in the desert. I think most of the guys who liked her did so because of her tits. See Tomb Raider....
3) Why did the Sarduakar look like the girl who played Chani could kick their ass? Same with Gurney and the rest of the "warriors."
4) William Hurt - what pathetic acting. I remember when he used to be good. He seems to be getting worse everytime I see him in something.
5) Stupid damn hats!
6) Badly done worms.
7) Since when is Paul a little whining mama's boy?
8) Where was the political intrigue?
The movie had it's bad points I am happy to admit. But if you can't even get the feel of the book down (which I feel the series completely misses) then why are you bothering? Dune was supposed to be about politics - the movie makes it about how Paul whines over every little thing. Kyle Maclaclan's Paul would kill the series Paul while the series Paul was whining about how his knife didn't feel right in his hand and it was too hot.
You're joking, right? Even Lynch isn't happy with the movie, and it sealed his fate - he never became a truly big director, which he was well on his way to being.
You think Lynch ever wanted to be a 'big director'? I can see a pretty clear thread running from _Eraserhead_ to _Blue Velvet_ and _Lost Highway_. _Dune_ was his worst work, but then again, it was his experience on the film that led to him always insisting on being the one to do the final release cut of the film, something he didn't have on _Dune_, because of the huge amounts of money involved and his status as a relatively new director at that time.
Living in Australia, I haven't seen the mini-series yet, but I'll be interested to see what has been done with it. It has to be better than the recent Dune abominations _House Atreides_ and _House Harkonnen_...
deus does not exist but if he does
It's been a while since I ready it, but I don't remember having imagined Louis Wu as an Asian when reading Ringworld , so Chow Yun-Fat would seem pretty out of place to me. By the time Known Space is upon us, the human race is pretty much homogenized from inter-racial breeding, and there are no more distinguishing racial features to speak of.
:)
Despite the novel's characterization of him as looking like a 20-something, I imagined Louis Wu's appearance as sort of a bronze-skinned, dark-haired Anglo man who looked artificially young, so I'd choose someone who looked like George Hamilton to play him.
There will always be greater and lesser degrees of "genetic immersion", to coin a phrase; and with names like Carlos Wu and Louis Wu I'd be expecting several generations of European and Asian ancestry back there, mingled together into some sort of post-Eurasian look.
Given the wirehead stuff, too, there needs to be a hint of personal weakness there, despite the external strengths... we have to believe that this man will become an addict
deus does not exist but if he does
I thought that the portrayal of the Baron, paul's mother, and paul's sister (liam??) were particularly good.
:)
Alia, if they followed the book closely.
deus does not exist but if he does
Lynch wanted to be better known - I think Twin Peaks speaks to that. But, because of Dune, his rising star just flatlined. I think, after The Elephant Man, Lynch was well on his way to reach the status of "great." But, to be honest, I think The Elephant Man was clearly his best work (John Hurt's too, for that matter), and Dune proved to be his undoing, showing he couldn't handle a large ensemble cast or a big budget, both of which were skills he would desperately need with his failed attempt to revitalize Twin Peaks in Fire Walk With Me . Don't get me wrong - I would go see a Lynch movie over most any day, but I get the feeling that he never quite reached the status and recognition he seemed to desire.
:) I think you're right, _Twin Peaks_ does show that, but I think he knew he was walking a fine line by trying to keep that Lynch 'edge' and still have widespread popular appeal... eventually things fell apart somewhat, especially whenever he wasn't overseeing things closely.
A reasoned analysis, with points well made. (Someone mod that up!
Have you read a book called _The Making of DUNE_? It was churned out sometime around the time the film was released, and, although not a great book, does give a good picture of the terrible politics involved in the making of the film, the money, etc. Unfortunately, at that level, that's what the process involves... now, I really liked the _Fire Walk With Me_ movie, but it only made sense if you knew at least 90% of the TV series, and I know most people don't share my appreciation for the film.
deus does not exist but if he does
I don't understand the problem so many people seem to have with Lynch's Dune rendition. I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, I watched it several times. Though I haven't seen any other of Lynch's films, I certainly do not think that Dune is by any means a bad movie. I think one of the main things that adds to the movie is the haunting soundtrack... In fact, a good soundtrack can make a good movie into a great movie. But I digress...
:)
:) The sound element of his films is always very effective, especially in his first feature, _Erasaerhead_.
I recommend that you see all of David Lynch's films. Although they vary in quality, that quality is good to great
_Dune_ is a good film, don't get me wrong. However it's not the book, and it doesn't feel like the sort of movie Lynch would have made without the external pressuers he had during the process (producers, etc.), so it sort of falls between two stalls.
Also, David is known to give very specific instruction to theaters as to the volume levels the movies should be played at, and collaborates closely on the composition of the soundtracks. Perceptive of you
deus does not exist but if he does
Well, at least we can say that Frank Herbert never came up with any characters on the level of Jar-Jar Binks. I'd like to think that Frank Herbert never lowered himself to Episode One crapulence, even if the original movie wasn't anywhere near as good as the book.
Then again, look at the comparison. Frank Herbert writes better books than George Lucas, and George Lucas has produced better movies than Frank Herbert. Apples and oranges, anyone?
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"He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
There was a dune and a dune 2k made by westwood
but they were a RTS game not a FPS. they played a lot like Command and conquer.
I don't use eleetism in my Email
Not because the first wasn't good, but because frankly the sequels will ruin the story for people. They not only don't live up to the measure of the first book but actually drag it down. (Watch the down-mods pile up.)
For what it's worth, I read Dune when it first appeared in Analog as two serialized short novels, Dune World and Prophet of Dune. I read, and still have, all three in their original serializations.
I have to agree with the review that Dune Messiah received in Analog all those years ago: Dune is about a world, while Dune Messiah is about a man. A great man, perhaps, but still a man; and no man, however great, can compete with a planet.
The sequels, in turning the focus of the story from planet to man, necessarily reduce the scope of the drama. Worst of all, they redefine the original story in a way that to me diminishes it as well. I've read a lot of science fiction in over forty years, and a lot of it wasn't worth reading. Dune Messiah is one of the very few books that was worse than a waste of time, and I sincerely wish I had never read it.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
For them to make the second and third books will require more interesting visual effects (spoilers: how will they deal with the Bene Tlailaxu (sp?) and those little fishy guys that cover Leto II's body to make him the worm). It will also be more difficult to make a GOOD movie about them because, let's face it, they just don't touch the original in terms of quality.
I am still pretty excited to see this, though, because it has the opportunity to show the general public what good sci-fi can be (whether it does or not is a different story).
IANAL, but I play one on
I think that's going in my collection of sigs.
The Silmarillion is one of my all-time favorites. One word: scope.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
There are no such things as weirding modules. Clearly you're thinking the movie (starring Sting) was canonical. Try reading the actual books instead.
You can grep all six books and the phrase "weirding module" will not appear. This was one of the three major departures (read, "made it up out of thin air") that the original Dune movie made from the books. Basically, they didn't have the time to investigate the mystical powers on-screen, so they threw in some technobabble instead.
If the TV miniseries was based on the books rather than the piece of crap movie which was based on the books, then there won't be things like weirding modules. And that's good.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Yeah, one difference was that in the novel, the final destination was a moon of Saturn, instead of of moon of Jupiter like in the movie.
What makes this interesting though, is that the second book (2010) takes off from the movie and places the final scene from 2001 at Jupiter.
I watched the first episode of the Dune miniseries on SciFi, though it is visually stunning, I was not impressed. I enjoyed the Dune book as well as the movie and the uncut movie. I didn't prefer the episode I saw, it seemed to go into things that the cut movie missed, but skipped over some valuable plot devices left by Herbert. I think I'll pass on future SciFi/Dune productions :(
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
In "The Lost Worlds of 2001", Clarke describes the experience of writing the novel and the screenplay simultaneously. He really wanted Saturn's moon Iapetus (Japetus) because of its 6:1 brightness curve, but the FX guys convinced him to go with Jupiter in the movie.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Clarke's First Law: When a distinguished but elderly scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he says it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
Clarke's Second Law: The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.
Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisable from magic.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
uhhh, looks like vaporfilm to me. Although I think Chow Yun-Fat would be cool for Louis Wu. And how about John Goodman for Speaker???!? Bwahahahahaha. Not.
I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
was CRAP! Maybe if it were just a standalone movie it would have been fantastic (yes, the visuals were pretty nice in some places), but since it's based on a _book_, it should hold to it. A movie (or miniseries) is made from a book because the book was impressive enough (in and of ITSELF and its OWN plot and its OWN details) to be chosen in the first place. Why the hell can't the director at least stay _slightly_ within the confines of the book when making the movie? Sorry, there was no big Muad'dib statue in Stilgar's sietch. Sorry, Paul can't make water appear out of nowhere with his "magical Kwisatz Haderach powers". And sorry, but if I'm not mistaken, in the book Paul Atreides wasn't a whiny little bitch.
It's God Emperor Leto III you gimp. Leto II was killed in sietch by Sardukar. Leto I was Paul's father.
FYI. If you go to the official Dune website, Frank Herbert's son Brian mentions that a complete outline for a seventh book was left behind by his father. There are plans to complete it after the prequels are finished. BTW, the Sci-Fi Dune series is a POS.
I believe this anagram sums up the general feeling that the mini-series inspired. Another one is DEFICASIUN, which further describes what I thought of the mini-series.
True, most of the time a good book just doesn't convert to a good movie. It tends to get worse if the director makes an extreme choice about consistency with the book - either inventing stuff out of thin air or religiously sticking to every detail in the book.
:-). So, go read Peter S. Beagle's "The Last Unicorn". Then see the movie. Yes, its animated. It is also very faithful to the book. And they are both great.
:-)
And if the movie is an animation, well, your best chance is to either read the book or see the movie; if you do both, you are bound to be disappointed.
However, in life there's an exception for every rule (in case you think that's impossible, this rule is its own exception
This movie is also an exception in being a fantasy animation movie for grown-ups. As a rule such movies aren't a commercial success (especially if they don't contain much violence and/or sex). This rule, alas, the movie isn't an exception for
At any rate, as this movie (and very few others) show, it is possible to do an accurate adaptation of a good book to a good movie. And even though Dune is harder then most books to do it for, I believe it is still possible.
I don't have any high hopes, though - the chances of the right kind of talent and work being applied to this project are as low as the humidity on Arakis at noon.
I am glad to see that i'm not alone in my disgust at the Sci-Fi channel's Dune interpretation. I REALLY didn't like how it was suggested that Paul and Jessica were faking their messiah-status to be saved from the ravages of the desert. True, the whole 'messiah' legend was created by the bene gesserit, but i certainly did not get the impression, which was show so strongly in the miniseries, from the novels! Also: Why did they misspell and mispronounce "Muad'Dib"? It is not "Maud'Dib" as was shown in the miniseries... why was it so? Also, I really didn't like how the Harkonnens were shown, nor did I like the... 'extravagant' or just plain stupid-looking dress of (as you mentioned) the bene gesserit and other characters. I, in fact, really liked the David Lynch version of Dune! Admittedly it wasn't as good as it could have been, I thought it captured Dune sufficiently. A helluva lot better than the miniseries, that's for sure. I really didn't like the miniseries; it left a bad taste in my mouth at the end.
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I, in fact, really enjoyed David Lynch's rendition of Dune. The sci-fi channel's rendition, however, was quite terrible. It remained more true to the plot, but David Lynch captured the more mystical essence of Dune. Though it didn't follow the plot very completely, it was (in my opinion) an excellent translation of Dune into film! The miniseries was just plain bad... bad acting, HORRIBLE costuming, and mispronounciations... WHY "Maud'Dib" and not the PROPER "Muad'Dib"? Is there an excuse for that?
Bah. Anyhow, I thought the miniseries was simply badly executed. There may have been good intent, and some of it was good as well, but there is no excuse for the overall shoddiness of the rest. I actually rented it on VHS, and watched the whole thing through. I found it one of those movies that you just want to throw out and never watch again after you watch it. I don't know what they're going to do with the 'sequel'; I hope they don't botch it as they did the first.
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I don't understand the problem so many people seem to have with Lynch's Dune rendition. I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, I watched it several times. Though I haven't seen any other of Lynch's films, I certainly do not think that Dune is by any means a bad movie. I think one of the main things that adds to the movie is the haunting soundtrack... In fact, a good soundtrack can make a good movie into a great movie. But I digress...
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Ringworld? Ugh. Just because something may be easy to translate into a movie doesn't mean you should.
I found Ringworld to be, put frankly, a very crappy book. The entire concept behind the book I found very distasteful and just plain stupid. Saying that Ringworld is about a "ringworld" is like saying Dune is about a desert planet. The ringworld was only a setting for babbling about genetic luck, an idea that I find ludicrous and really turned me off to the book. Though how genetically lucky individuals were breeded was an interesting idea, the entire concept behind it I found extremely distasteful. The entire book was tedious and was basically an exploration of a concept in a crappy fictional story. I found the writing itself poor as well. I don't see how Ringworld is worth honouring. Admittedly, I haven't read any more of Niven's works (Ringworld has turned me off to him), so maybe some of his other books may be worth reading and movie-izing, but definitely not Ringworld.
But this whole post is very very off topic.
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I loved Lynch's Dune movie. It was certainly not a travesty as some people would like to call it. I thought it really captured the essence of Dune and, though it didn't follow the book completely, showed the story behind Dune superbly.
I hated the Sci-Fi Channel's Dune, however. They attempted to stay true to the book, and did somewhat. I didn't like some of the things they added or messed-up, nor did I like the horrid acting or nasty costume. It just did not capture Dune the way David Lynch did!
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I saw the last part of it on Sci-fi a few weeks back, and was really impressed at how well it actually followed the book. The Dune series has always been one of my favorite books, and while some of the effects looked a little cheapo (not bad considering the budget was probably not Hollywood-blockbuster big), the way that entire blocks of dialog and scenes were taken directly from the book was really great. Hopefully these new ones will keep that up. I want to "see" Frank Herbert's book * of Dune, I don't want something that's kind of similiar to what happened in * of Dune.
I never really liked Lynch's Dune movie, because it seemed in many ways totally unrelated to the book.
Not a flame, just a helpful hint.
Further helpfulness (/. will kill you with it!) The Asmov quote is in fact a mean little twist on the famous Clarke quote:
Something that I'm sure a lot of us can relate to. My magic is usually a hack or a cheat, and not the technological miracle that I'll let my bosses to believe. =)
J
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
Despite the novel's characterization of him as looking like a 20-something, I imagined Louis Wu's appearance as sort of a bronze-skinned, dark-haired Anglo man who looked artificially young, so I'd choose someone who looked like George Hamilton to play him.
Edith Keeler Must Die
I'd like to see some other classic Sci-Fi adapted for TV before another installment in the Dune series. How about Stranger in a Strange Land? Are "we" (US-ian "we") ready for that? I'd guess so, seeing how well QAF is doing on Showtime.
How about Ringworld and its sequels/prequels? There's a hard-core yarn that special effects technology is finally ready to render spectacularly, and the story is as straightforward as any movie-of-the-week. Heck, most of Niven/Pournelle's joint efforts would suit me fine: Footfall, Thor's Hammer, The Mote in God's Eye. These stories are very much more adaptable to TV or motion pictures than anything Herbert has written.
Edith Keeler Must Die
To be precise, the book was written while filming, but wasn't published till after the film. And the movie was not based on "The Sentinel". That short story was the origin of the idea of 2001 for Clarke. I just finished the 4 books and found the comments by Clarke very interesting.
I fell for it....for a second...hehehehehe
Guyote was here.....
Man, I'm dying to see God Imperor Leto II.
Will they turn into movie all parts of Dune series?
:wq
So, gentle Slashdot reader, if you've never read any of the Dune books, read the original and then stop. You'll be glad you did.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
... fix your cranio-rectal inversion.
It's Linux, damnit! Pay no attention to renaming attempts by self-aggrandizing blowhards.
The first miniseries was really botched, i mean, they don't even delve into the religious importence of the spice, nor it's wei as a narcotic. The point of the worms interaction with them is mispresented and the weirding modules are completely ignored (this was amongst the things that made House Atreides as strong as it was).
The scenery is also poorly presented; there is no show of water conservation in the mini-series, even among the fremen. Frank Herbert was [practically, at min.] an Ecologist - and the mini-series gave absolutely no attention to this spirit.
There's more, but if you care enough by now there's plenty of sites with more info (or i'm preaching to the converted). The new series will get eaten up - just as the last one did - but that doesn't mean it will be any better. Harrison should do himself a favor and hire an (eclectic) Ecologist or at least a well-schooled historian of some religious venue.
It would be brilliant if the sci-fi channel decided that part of their mandate was to bring quality sci-fi literature to the small screen. Of course, quality to whom. So start with the books that have stood the test of time.
Except in the scene where the Baron pulls the heartplug of a slave; He shows revulsion while the Baron isn't looking
As in `I am surrounded by such second rate talent'.
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Far too much voice over. If you have to have the actors speaking their thoughts to the audience, then clearly actors, director and writers have not done a good enough job.
The stupid thing with the shouting-at-people weapon. For the sake of beating us over the head with one very very obvious metaphor they turned the big battle at the end into an embarassing joke.
None of the characters were drawn well. The baron was a cartoon. Jessica had no depth. Stilgar was just a spear carrier. And Paul, well, when we should have seen the emergence of a messiah, we just got a comic book hero who had a couple of bad dreams.
And the book is called `Dune' not `Paul'.
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
This is, of course, an argument that the story is unsuitable for being a movie.
And it's not the occasional internal monologue which is the indication of failure. Some quite good writers have been known to throw in a `to be or not to be' :-).
The problem is, eg, Jessica narrating `my son lives!'. That is needed in a book where we can't see her, on screen the reaction should be there for us to see without being told.
Yes, let's just ignore the weirding-weapons and the whole concept of 'Muad'dib' being an unknown 'power-word' for the Fremen people. That was an important turning point in the book if you don't remember.
I don't remember a shouting at people weapon in the book.
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Besides, did you even read my post? I spent most of it contrasting the works, not comparing them.
"We all say so, so it must be true!"
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
- "An apple, like a tire iron, can be thrown at a dog."
- "A tire iron, like an apple, is something I often keep in my truck."
Next.(And if you had any balls at all, you'd be logged in).
"We all say so, so it must be true!"
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
The advantage of this method is that he created a complete cycle right up-front (see next P), rather than tacking on book after book like many hack writers do. The disadvantage is that Dune Messiah is pretty obviously just a stepping stone to Children of Dune. I think the series would have been stronger if he'd left it out entirely, but we would have missed Paul's relationship with Channi, which is complex and interesting.
The first 3 are a perfect cycle, almost a tragedy in the classical sense - a man falling from a high position due to hubris (yes, I know, Aristotle defined tragedy more specifically than that, but I'm too lazy to look it up). The last 3 are much better written, with more interesting plots and characters.
I don't watch TV, so I don't know how the first mini-series went. I find it hard to believe that the work can be faithfully reproduced, however, no matter how much time and money is spent on it. This contrasts with Peter Jackson's upcoming LOTR, which actually may not suck. Tolkien was wordy, but LOTR is a fairly simple work - standard mythology. Dune (all 6) are complex commentary on politics, economics, religion, human nature, oil, water - you name it. Very deep. You can get the action to the screen, but I fear the depth being left behind.
And before Tolkien fans get out their flame-throwers, yes, I love Tolkien. I took (and aced) several graduate-level Tolkien courses in school, and have a deep and abiding appreciation for him and his work. LOTR, however, is a sitcom compared with The Silmarillion, and The Hobbit is a commercial break. No one will make a movie of The Silmarillion, anymore than you could make a movie of the entire Bible.
And yet The Silmarillion is still just a small part of Tolkien's work, and his world. Amazing.
"We all say so, so it must be true!"
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
If anything, the book was a ``novelization'' of the screenplay, not the other way around. The movie was written as a movie by Arthur C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick, and was later adapted into a novel by Clarke. There were some differences between the story that Clarke wrote as the screenplay and the final filmed version, but that is typical of filmmaking.
Fuck 'im up, Tim! His views are invalid! -Pirate Corp$
Commander comedy there was attempting to make a joke by replacing 'Dune' with 'Doom'. He wasn't talking about the old Dune PC games.
Bring on the sequel, if you don't want the sequel to come out, then don't watch it. It's not like we are holding a gom jabbar up to your neck.
With a movie/series like Dune it does not matter if the movie/series is as good as the book or not. They are not made for the book fans. They are made for people who either can't get enough of the story or people who never got any.
If someone says "that movie ruled" and goes out and buys the book then the people who sold the rights to the movie win twice. If some one didn't like the movie but they still sat there and watches it and made the advertisers happy.
I have read the first 7 books. I have seen the original movie and the mini I saw up to the point where they made bringing back Idaho really hard; it's not easy to get cells from an explosion. At that point I said "Not the same" and turned it off. I am a fan but not a fanatic.
It's about the money not the integrity.
Ascii artist &
Let's think about this.
If Frank Herbert wrote the book, and then Frank Herbert was deeply involved in a cinematic retelling, don't you think that that movie is probably pretty true to Frank Herbert's vision? There is only one canonical cinematic interpretation of Dune, and that, at least because of Herbert's involvement, is Lynch's film (for all its weaknesses).
Who cares what's believable or not? In a universe that takes place 10,000 years in the future, you accept the universe for what it is. And frankly, Lynch's interpretation of Herbert's universe was miles better than the dreck perpetrated on Herbert's memory by Sci-Fi.
God that series was bloody awful. What is it with us geeks and the rampant ignorance of the concepts of production values?
S.
I have read all of the Dune novels several times and I would have to say that the first one was the easiest one from which to make a movie. I will be interesting to see how the next two are handled.
And there still isn't.
Seriously, given the state of humor on slashdot, this could go on forever.
Are you smoking crack? This is a television miniseries, not a computer game. Gotta love it when people don't even read the synopsis, let alone the article.
Got to love it when people can't understand humor, let alone how to close their tags.
Josh Sisk
AFAIK, the most faithful adaptation from book->movie was probably "2001", which changed some pretty big details (it was a moon of Saturn originally, not Jupiter), but kept the main ideas intact.
AFAIK, this is because the novel was written from the script that Clarke and Kubrick collaborated on. The script/film is based on an earlier Clarke short story "the Sentinel", but the film's storyline is very different, and the book is based on the script, not the original story.
Josh Sisk
i really hope they do better this time. with the tech thats available i was a little disaponted.. :/
I've read the first book several times, have seen the movie a few times as well -- and man, I think that mini-series really lacked feeling. The story is grand and powerful -- the houses were regal, sinister, advanced, heroic, deplorable.. but in the mini-series I felt like I was watching 90210.
Paul was arrogant, never showing reverence. The dialogue didn't seem to sync with the emotion of the situation -- did these bastards even read the book or watch the movie?
I do not look forward to any mini-series sequels. Leave it up to the big budget houses to make a Dune mega movie with actors and directors that draw you in, because hell, the story is already doing its job.. and Sci-fi Chan did it an injustice the first time around.
I hesitate to even reply to this thread, but I thought I'd point out that the original Dune game was NOT an RTS. It was more of an adventure game, and, frankly, wasn't very interesting. Dune 2 was an RTS which had nothing to do with the original game, and little to do story-wise with the movie either (they even invented another house so they could have three factions in the game). Dune 2K was a windoze-ized version of Dune 2. Dune 2 was a great game for its time but seems primitive by modern RTS standards.
That said, the article that this is attached to has nothing to do with any of those games. I believe (as do the moderators, apparently) that the author of the original comment of this thread realized this and was trying to be funny.
Possible, I suppose. I've only read the first book.... *shrug* I thought one of my friends who had read them all said they didn't exist in any of the books, but *I* may have just been smoking too much crack. :-)
a) while the comparisons to modern-day (1970s) middle eastern politics are obvious, (i.e. melange = oil) they are only a minor sub theme
b) the "megalomaniac white guy" is completely convinced that he cannot save the "idiot nomads" and is in fact sure he will destroy them, but feels he has little choice if he wishes to save the human species from a path of decay and eventual extinction due to inbreeding...the destruction of the Fremen and Arrakis is his source of sadness and eventual withdrawal from the system in the sequels
c) the book is really about politics -- there is a quote in the series somewhere to the effect that "all political systems - yes all - no matter how they start out, eventually decay into a form of feudalism, with planned succesion of power and fealty chains" and if you think about that my deluded friend, you will realize that we are experiencing said changeover in the US right now
d) originality is not a qualification for great literature -- Homer's Odyssey has been copied so many times you can't even count them, and many of the versions, including James Joyce's are considered to be masterworks of literature
e) you have a chip on your shoulder that has affected your ability to reason rationally, although you can spout racial nonsense right up there with Farrakhan
It's not funny till someone gets hurt.
Read the books again. Paul's first son, named Leto II was killed by the Harkonnen in the raids leading up to the climactic battle. The second go-around with Paul and Chani was the pregnancy which lead to the twins, Leto II (again, this one ultimately to become the God Emperor), and Ghanima. The miniseries is 100% correct in this respect.
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
What actually got to me about the mini series was the lighting of most of the scenes. It lloked like low budget theater as ooposed to introspective personal moments.
---------------------------
Pooty tweet
Its good to see Sci Fi doing this. There doing for modern science fiction what TNT does for modern westerns. Producing their own passible to good series and movies. I for one thought that the director of the Dune Mini-Series really wanted it to be a play, which is why it didn't turn out as well as it could have. It was still very fun, so i'm hopefull for this one too.
Also, has anyone else heard the rumor that Sci Fi might be showing/co producing a NEW Dr. Who series? God I hope so...just as long as they get a budget of 3000$ per episode. It looses that whole Dr Who feel if its to pricey.
You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
I can see very few parallels between the Star Wars universe and the Dune universe. Sure, Tatoonie is a desert world and Arrakis is a desert world, but do you have anywhere near the exploration of Tatoonie in the Star Wars movies (the movies being original and, therefore, canon) as you have of Arrakis in the Dune novels? No. Another rather weak connection is the Force and melange. But while the Force seems to be mainly mind-control and telekinesis, melange focuses on giving its users visions of possible futures, along with extended lifespans and blue eyes. Something essential to the Dune novels are the worms. Nothing like them exists in Star Wars. Nothing in Star Wars can even be misconstrued to resemble a worm.
Okay, I've explored rather small side-issues. Let's look at larger concepts. Dune is the history of House Atredes on Arrakis. It begins when Duke Leto, Lady Jessica, Paul, and those attached to their house leave Caladan and land on Arrakis. Star Wars is the story of the rise (Episodes I, II, III) and fall (Episodes IV, V, VI) of the Galactic Empire, the last three being told from the POV of those working to destroy it. Dune is a rather convoluted, and deep, political, social, and economic commentary deeply tied up with the concept of the hydraulic monarchy (political control through a monopoly of some vital resource, like water). Star Wars is a hero myth that borrows elements of Greek and Japanese mythologies. I say they're fundamentally different.
How can you use my intestines as a gift? -Actual Hong Kong subtitle.
I found dune 2 on an "Abandonware" site in strategy and dune is mia so far. It is weird having a site like this I bought like half these games and am missing most of them. Except my immortal synidcate disks which have survived 6 moves and 1 car crash, hehe.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Got to love it when people can't understand humor, let alone how to close their tags
I also love it when people can't understand humor. But, as it turns out, humor is defined as:
The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness
Which I guess means that there has been no humor so far in this thread for someone to not understand.
And there still isn't.
Yup, and we're still waiting
Bollocks.
The book was written at the SAME TIME as the movie.
Don't believe me? Then perhaps you will believe Arthur C Clarke himself - check out his foreword in the latest reprint of 2001.
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
These people are soulless hacks with no love for literature, and should have some kind of Clockwork Orange technique done on them so they can never write, act, direct or produce again.
The first mini-series was done about as well as could be done with such a broad expanse of a book. It was as faithful as it could be without being unintelligible to people who hadn't read the series. Very few screen adaptations are able to pull that off. Probably "The World According to Garp" is the only one I've seen that so closely mirrored the book's tone, and story.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
Before the Sci-fi miniseries I had not read Dune or any of its sequels. My brother watched all three nights of the miniseries while I found something else to do. I specifically avoided it so that I could read the books _before_ seeing the interpretation of them. I am glad I did too. There is nothing worse than reading a book and not enjoying it as much as the movie version because it appears that the author left something out (which is obviously not the case, but that is how it feels none the less). I know a lot of people are now going to see the Fellowship of the Ring without reading it first. For the people who's interest is sparked enough to pick up the book, they will enjoy the it less for having seen the movie first. There is still time though, hopefully they will grab a copy from somewhere before December, but I doubt it.
.o .o: No such file or directory
% rm *
rm:
% ls
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damn
3 weeks ago. and then i watched the movie, then the mini-series. i found the movie to be very old looking. while it may have been cutting edge in its day, it is no longer (but i can forgive that). they made up stuff (sound-weapons anyone??) and left out a ton of stuff since they only had two hours. the scifi miniseries i found stuck MUCH more closely to the actual book (and i DID just read it), and the special effects were up to date (even if low-budgeted). it's funny though, my dad loves the movie more. maybe it's a generational thing. *shrug* neither of them SUCK (unless maybe u hate the story). it's just a preference thing, chill people :)
Umm... he started creating the mythology way before LOTR, or even the Hobbit were written. Pieces were being put together and he placed these 2 stories inside of them. The Hobbit just was the first story to get published.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
I liked the books. The original Dune movie was kind of a disappointment. In many ways it was horrid!
:)
I thought that the Sci-Fi mini-series was fairly well done and that the effects were awesome. I guess computers have made it easier to do high-quality sci-fi films
I am surprised the Sci-Fi channel didn't do a theatrical release of it. It probably would have made it, and in the end the Sci-Fi channel could make better revenues off of movie sales, video sales, pay-per-view, and finally ad sales on their channel then they did off of those couple of nights probably.
But I could be wrong. Who knows what those ads went for besides the people who bought them, the people who sold them, and the IRS, and they'll probably make a bundle off the next ones.
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
It's Arthur C. Clarke's third law of technology, not an Isaac Asimov quote.
Not a flame, just a helpful hint.
It's great to see this new miniseries, but why would you adapt TWO stories into one series, rather than preserving the second (actually third) story for an additional miniseries...Strange
Is sci-fi actually imune from the television media marketing engine? You can only sell half the ads if you have half the content, so why would they have decided to combine the stories into only one miniseries...
--CTH
--
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
I don't think that's always true. Have you seen High Fidelity? That was an effective movie, and we got information we couldn't have from just observing actions and inter-character dialogue.
Karma: Chameleon (Mostly affected by the 1980s)
Sting may not of been the best actor, but he fit Feyd to a tee. He had that malicious Harkonnen arogance and blood thirsty viciousness down pat.
I caught the end of the Sci-Fi miniseries and I was shocked at how bad it was. The Bene Gesserit came off as a bunch of hysterical Puritan looking frail old women. The Guildsmen were just plain goofy with their Bob Dylan sounding style of speach. The miniseries was like an Indie remake of the original movie.
The decadence and retro sensiblilities of the original film (mentioned in another post), along with an excellent cast of actors made the original a truly great rendition of the book. It also catered to the audience that had read the book instead of trying to placate the masses of soft sci fi fans. I'll never forget the scene in the original movie where the mutated Guildsman threatened the Emperor in the middle of his throne room while holding up that 30's looking translator microphone, his voice slurred and alien, being translated into cold booming tones of authority. The original Baron Harkonnen may have been fat and degenerate, but he was as sharp as a tack and twice as cruel. The new baron was a buffoon, as all the Harkonnens were. I could go on and on. The only thing that the miniseries accomplished for me is that it made me realize how wonderfull the original movie was in spite of a few minor flaws.
>>If you have to have the actors speaking their thoughts to the audience, then clearly actors, director and writers have not done a good enough job.
Have you actually read a book by Frank Herbert - he packs in so many internal monologues and contemplations that you can't convey an ounce of what he's writing without characters doing just that.
>>The stupid thing with the shouting-at-people weapon.
Yes, let's just ignore the weirding-weapons and the whole concept of 'Muad'dib' being an unknown 'power-word' for the Fremen people. That was an important turning point in the book if you don't remember.
-Nano.
If you'd been watching the telecast, they showed it at http://www.scifi.com/secret/ for a short time.
While it's true that SciFi is making this with a low budget, and it does show, I still find that their adaptation has certain elements I find far more believable than the one Frank Herbert was so deeply involved with, even though that one had far better character actors for the most part.
The SCI FI version seems to get the feel of the culture better, and what the events in the book may have been like, than one found in the original movie, even if it's not as well-crafted.
Plus, the actress who plays Chani is way hotter, and more believable, than Sean was in the same role.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
hrm. I assume that you mean the Ordos, but it seems to me that they were mentioned somewhere in one of the dune books. maybe ive just been smoking too much crack today.
Oh the irony...doctor, heal thyself first. Did you read the books? I ask only because you grotesquely misinterpreted just about the entire content of "Dune Messiah" and "Children of Dune". It would be easier to believe you didn't actually read them, than to believe you got that from reading them.
There's my 2 cent version of a book review.
You're charging too much, and I'd hate to see the "expensive" version... :P
This just about made my day. Thanks!
Hehe, that's like saying Alia was a little conflicted about her loyalties.
Personally, I felt the only thing the mini-series had to offer was its adherance to the actual dialog and action of the book itself (which Lynch's obviously did not). With that, the b-movie acting and ungodly costume design could be overlooked, since Dune fans could finally see a somewhat literal interpretation of the book. Both messiah and children of dune are infinately complex in their own right as they expound on the minuate of an Empire and its "holy" leaders. By cutting them down and attempting to push that much intrigue into a single mini-series, they are destroying the best part about having sci-fi produce these in the first place.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
Yes, Dune wasn't 100% accurate, but it was a good adaptation, especially for a sci-fi novel. There are a lot worse books->movie conversions out there, such as "The Postman" (where they removed over 2/3rds of the book, and dammit, I liked AI machines). Then there are the truly horrible written fiction->movies out there, which I can't recall off the top of my head, due to a mental block. I'm sure a few slashdotters out there could reply with a horrifying list.
AFAIK, the most faithful adaptation from book->movie was probably "2001", which changed some pretty big details (it was a moon of Saturn originally, not Jupiter), but kept the main ideas intact.
Every time I read a good novel, and think it would make a spiffy movie, I remember what happened in the past, and am therefore content with imagining what traekis look like, rather then seeing them on the big screen.
*sigh*
Oh well, just my $1.02
...but I gotta say except for the 15 min narrative to set up the story, the original movie ruled. The miniseries just lacks the style in art direction. Maybe if I sit through another four hours "New Dune" it might grow on me.
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For instance, the first film has better acting, character portrayel, casting, special effects, and better stillsuits.
The new scifi film was FAR closer to the story line, and yes, Chani was way hotter, but many of the characters were very unlike those in the books...except for LETO, I liked him. Plus the stillsuits were laim. Of course the effects were worse, but I can accept that considering the budget.
The Sciffi version had an "anti-climactic" ending in my opinion, but than again, so did the book, sort of. The old Dune was good in the end, but it involved Pauls newfound telekenetic powers that somehow came from no where.
What worms did you guys like better? I kind of liked the teeth from the sciffi version, especially considering that they're described that way in the book, but the orginal Dune movie had some cool looking worms. Oh yeah, when Paul rode the worm for the first time in the sciffi version, was he using a jump rope? Anyone remember that:)
Don't flame me. I'm very excited for the part two to come out. I think in some ways it will be a better movie, but it will be very difficult to develop the characters of Leto II and his sister. I'm curious to see how they do that.
Fat Stilgar
Other than that, nothing really bothered me so much that I groaned out loud (OK, maybe the cheesy painted backgrounds in certain desert scenes...)
Yeah, I agree... Although when I look at Dune (Volume 1) I tend to look at it through the lens of the whole series, and then it's not so good anymore.
I have not read Clockwork Orange, but saw the flick, and liked it.
Ultimately, movies are made for money. They cost so much to make, they have to make some. Sort of like dot-coms. A personal page does not _ever_ have to be profitable, but a dot-com business does.
"Piter, too, is dead."
I am still wondering as to why people want to make movies out of books. They are two completely different mediums. It's sort of like composer putting Shakespeare's King Lear to music. What's that all about?
Dune is one of the best book series of all times, right up there with LOTR and a few others. But it's not so much the style, or the motion, that makes it great, it's the undercurrent. It's so deep on so many levels that it makes you think, _really_think_, about your own life, your own beliefs, your own preconceptions.
Books are an immersive technology, sort of like coding, going into wizard mode, where the world stops spinning and you're transcended to another place and time. Movies don't achieve this level, ever. This level is what book authors aim for, and when they succeed, they are rewarded with god-like fame.
But movies are about money, and are meant to be understood by the masses (even within a particular genre). Books, however, are a lot more selective, and not too many people have read the last book of Dune and understood why Duncan left in the No-Ship taking the BT couple with him.
Movies are made for money, to make money, to increase viewer share. Really great books, on the other hand, are meant to reflect the deepest thoughts of incredibly talented and imaginative individuals.
I rented the Dune miniseries last fall, and altough I am a great Herbert fan, that movie sucked. It was just barely okay. It went through the motion, but never engaged the viewer into deep mode. I have read the Dune series 6 times (all 2000+ pages) and I will read it at least 10 more times in my life (once every 3 years or so). I guarantee I will not see that miniseries Dune movie ever again.
People should just learn to enjoy books. It's amazing what that does for one's ability to write BTW.
As far as the Dune books to movies, I don't see why they have to be done in order. If it was up to me, and if I was to make movies of these books, I would go: 5, 4, 6, 1, 2, 3.
Oh, and you can just ignore the prequels/sequels written by those other two. They never ever reach the deep levels.
Try Maia, by Richard Adams. He gets pretty close. It's a bit boring at times, but it is immersive, and very well written.
"Piter, too, is dead."
Remember people that Dune is several hundred pages long, and has a DAMN GLOSSARY IN THE BACK!!! These comic book fools are lucky that the damn movie was ever made, because only a madman would want to jump into the deep end of that pool. Just because you can deconstruct a work of television or art, doesn't mean that you are superior to it. Keep in mind that it takes years of college educated people planning to make a skyscraper, but it takes a dork with a joystick and a wrecking ball half a day to knock it down. People that critique work usually don't have the skill to make real works. End of discussion. Oh, and MOVE OUT OF YOUR PARENTS BASEMENTS, comic book guys!!! Woof.
Get Denise Richards and the other hot redhead to reenact the Wild Things pool scene sometime in the movie. Then loop it.
The NY times had an interesting, somewhat related article on Sunday discussing the overall lack of quality of the stories of Science Fiction movies (quality referring to the depth of the characters, theme.. etc). I thought of this article when reading this interview. Dune as a whole, to me, is several rungs higher in depth as a science fiction epic. (right up there with Asimov's Foundation series). Its a real pity that scifi epics like Dune arent given the same budget as scifi soaps such as Star Wars(although the soaps are not bad, jsut not intellectually stimulating).
-its almost 4:30
You play with legos at work and are worried about a little spam HTML??? Man, some people's priorities...
Hey freaks: now you're ju
I may be unique in the world for saying this, but I love Dune, the Original movie, before Sci-Fi fucked with it. Yes, maybe it was different from the book, but who the hell cares? They are different texts in different mediums and serve a different purpose from each other. Sci-Fi's remake of Dune only served to make what was a piece with a wonderful feel and effects that were stylistic and beautiful into another crappy Sci-Fi film with B grade acting, C grade digital effects and costumes straight out of Lawrence of Arabia.
The fact is that the Sci-Fi channel is so stuck in its idiom of fiction by the numbers that it can't break out into a truly stylistic piece. Shows like Farscape may be technically well written and full of enough stupid melodrama to put a headlock on anything Vince MacMahon ever thought up, but they're just totally bereft of anything original or even interesting in theme or plot. The original Dune plot took a wonderful little piece of political pulp fiction by a decent writer and turned it into a fantastic adventure that excited me and left me feeling complete. I didn't need any more back story -- I was willing to corral the boring history of the world into some technical addendum a la some of the Star Wars books. Sci Fi managed to ruin a great movie by degrading the acting, enhancing the most boring aspects of the story while losing the ones that had any real cinematic flavour and restricted the camera angles to nothing but interior medium shots. Oh, and while making the movie more boring and not worth watching, they extended what was already a 4 hour film. When they make the sequel, they'll just be extending it furthur -- and since I'm sure they'll preclude it with a replay of their horrendious remake, it'll be a half day worth of boredom I suggest only for masochists, herbert fanatics and college students with nothing better to do.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Zip, zilch, nada. About the same as the novelization of Star Wars by "George Lucas". it was ghosted by Alan Dean Foster. Lucas didn't write word one.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
The problem with the Dune books and their being cast into a visual media is as follows - Paul Atredies didn't have any spiffy powers and couldn't make things blow up just by looking at them. Apart from some Bene Gesserit teachings from his mother, his only real ability was precognition. By being able to sense the paths that lead to the future, he was able to begin pushing humanity into the direction of his Golden Path. The rest of the books are more or less what happens along that Path.
What does this mean? Well, 99% of the people that watch sci fi movies aren't watching them for an intense storyline filled with plots and subplots. They're watching them to see stuff explode and people get eaten by bug-eyed monsters. So a cerebral series or movie won't get anywhere near the audience that it should get. In the movie, the obvious solution was to add wierding modules and give Paul Atredies all sorts of abilities that people who have read the books cringe at.
At least the miniseries was a little closer to being accurate. They didn't portray the Baron Harkonnen as a pustule-ridden fat man on a flying chair, they portrayed him as a man of excess, which is exactly what he was. Sure, Paul is a whiny bitch in the movie. If you've read the books, you will discover that he ends up being pretty spineless in the end. I only have three gripes with the series:
1. The way Duncan Idaho died. In the books he was fighting off the Sardaukar, in the series he gets hit by a bomb.
2. How whiny Chani is in the series. Come on, guys. She's FREMEN. Crying wastes water.
3. The fremen in the series are nowhere near as dogmatic about water loss as they are in the books.
Other than that, the series was excellent.
Now, my concerns about the next series. The best way I can describe the 6 books in the series is that it's a cosine wave. It starts out on a high note, the middle books lose their momentum a little, and then it ends on a high note. The next two books are going to be rough going. I just hope that they don't sacrifice good story for idiot eye candy.
I've been a big fan of Dune ever since the first version came out when I was in high school. I loved Wolfenstein 3D before that, and I can remember playing Dune until the wee hours in the morning some nights. Dune 2 was similar, but didn't have the same eerie atmosphere and feel as the original. Hopefully, in the 10 years that have passed since the original was released, ID Software will be able to take advantage of new technology and increases in processing power to make the new version of Dune live up to it's predecessor.
"Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or dead." -Kurt Cobain
And especially the good old MST3K is missed. But none of them are showed here i Denmark And now ill miss a Dune seq. too...
There isn't much like the scent of a fresh harddisk
"Always two there are, no more, no less:
  a master and an apprentice.
But which was destroyed?
  The master or the apprentice?"
There were some other lifts from Shakespeare that escape me at the moment.
That's actually appropriate, to some degree. Without going too overboard on the history lesson, those costumes that many people are complaining about are, of course, derivative of the clothes in the early Renaissance. If one is actually aware of the various class/status designations in the Renaissance, as well as differences btwn. places like Italy, France and England, and the importance of such clothes for rank designations and so forth, you immediately notice things like:
Not entirely inappropriate, given Herbert's Machievellian world...
Also, considering the Fremen are sorta Arabic, and are looked down upon on by the European-styled people, that fits with the parallels.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure they took the parallels far enough for them to work convincingly. Certainly they were distractingly goofy at times, though I got used to it. It wasn't nearly as annoying as the gratuitous and very uninformed use of Baroque styling in the original movie, which was just stupid. If you're going to copy period styles, get it right!
A lot of people wonder why it's worth bothering with such trivia. On one level, it isn't, but getting the details "right", by which I suppose I mean consistent and rich, tends to add a lot of depth to the movie. It's the same reason that Tolkien's books (and Herbert's) are so much better than most of their contemporaries. Unlike Tolkien, Herbert didn't explicitly describe a lot of stuff, so it's up to the director to figure out how to create a sense of richness. (That's also a strength of Dune: though written in the 1960's, it doesn't seem dated, like most scifi from the period. He cleverly avoided using contemporary words, or describing advanced technology, realizing that:
I didn't care for the later books much, but perhaps they'll make for a decent series.
A witty saying is worth nothing - Voltaire
I really wanted to like the miniseries, but i could not. I heard for months how much 'closer' this was to the original story, only to see blatent changes that went against what Herbert wrote.
I didn't mind the new stillsuit design, but come on, WEAR the damn thing. Herbert constantly reminded the reader that water was almost non-existant, yet these jokers are out sitting on the beach with baggy clothing. Fremen are supposed to be dry and skinny. And potted plants in an unsealed sietch? Whats next? running water? Doh!
It was very clear that the Emperor prized his sardaukar. He seemed to sleep in his officers uniform. So whats with the Babylon five costume rejects?
Hurt as Leto. stay away from the Prozac. what a waste of money.
Mentat? what's that. oh yeah, thats the character type that they decided to forget about. what a waste.
Although internal dialogue is not exactly looked upon kindly, i never minded it. Its certainly better than having strange, poorly written conversations to explain things.
One odd thing is that my roomate, who had never seen or read anything Dune, actually kinda liked it.
i dont really have any hope for the new series, but i'll watch it. I'm wierd that way.
You're joking, right? Even Lynch isn't happy with the movie, and it sealed his fate - he never became a truly big director, which he was well on his way to being. Listen, I like the Lynch movie, but it's just not on target. I mean, Sting? Sting's best acting was seen in Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. The miniseries had problems, but it felt like a '60s sci-fi novel being translated to screen. Call me odd, but I really think that it has a strong, purposeful, retro sensibility that just about everyone missed. When you think of it in that way, I think you'll respect the work that was done with the miniseries.
That's right on the mark, all. Harrison's comparing the feel of ANH and ESB to one another and saying that the level of difference between those two films is akin to the level of difference between Herbert's books. He's not comparing Herbert to Lucas.
While I think you're right (did Paul have a son die in the first book...I can't remember), in centuries past it wasn't uncommon to name a child after a sibling who had died young. Harrison could be leading up to that. What's also important is that Leto doesn't become Leto II until he assumes the title of Duke. If he really wanted to, if Herbert was basing the empire on old European empires, he chould have named himself Duke Leto II and Emperor Bobby I at the same time, if so inclined...
Lynch wanted to be better known - I think Twin Peaks speaks to that. But, because of Dune, his rising star just flatlined. I think, after The Elephant Man, Lynch was well on his way to reach the status of "great." But, to be honest, I think The Elephant Man was clearly his best work (John Hurt's too, for that matter), and Dune proved to be his undoing, showing he couldn't handle a large ensemble cast or a big budget, both of which were skills he would desperately need with his failed attempt to revitalize Twin Peaks in Fire Walk With Me. Don't get me wrong - I would go see a Lynch movie over most any day, but I get the feeling that he never quite reached the status and recognition he seemed to desire.
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Capt' Trips
grep >= ! == $your
Long live the Great Worm!!
I can't wait to see how the special effects for the worm/empreror turn out.
pressure/grep
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Microsoft Fucking Sucks!! Up The Penguins!!
How does crap like this get posted??
If I was reading this at work, and the sniffer software got a hold of that page, I'd be walking home with my O'reilly books & Legos in a cardboard box.
I know that I'm new here, but I'd expect that garbage like that wouldn't make it on to an otherwise cool site.
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Microsoft Fucking Sucks!! Up The Penguins!!
The Dune series is one of the best selling sci-fi series of all time, and Hollywood is going to rewrite it. Now they want to combine 2 books into one. After leaving as much out of the first movie as they did, and taking into consideration that the second and third books are apx. the same length as the first book, what are these pumpkins going to give us next? I'm not expecting a detailed or quality product.
To clarify (much like the director did, so that the layman would understand after his words had been snipped into soundbytes and misinterpreted by people) in a simplistic fashion:
It's like comparing the difference between 30 and 40 to the difference between 10,000 and 10,010. No one would argue that 10,000 is the same as 30, but the difference between the two numbers in each set is the same. See?
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goats.com: better than
Did anyone else notice how truly horrible the backgrounds were on the outdoor sets!? My girlfriend and I were almost nauseated by them. The Wizard of Oz had more convincing outdoor backdrops than the Dune series. I hope they do better next time. (that aside, I did enjoy seeing a true-to-the-book movie of Dune and would like to see more...)
... as long as the villans don't end every sentence with a rhyme!!
I do not want to see the rest of the books mauled this way though. If they have a decent budget and it looks better then I am all for it but if its like the first one the screw it it isnt even worth looking at.
My little Universe is cool for the people who can fit inside it (being 250 6'4" there aren't that many who can)
The original Dune was a classic because Herbert was reigned in by editors. Each successive book gets more and more self-indulgent, until the thud of Chapterhouse.
While impressive visually, I found the first series lacking. A positive light is that they are going to compress the next two books into one series, showing that they are going to, by necessity, truncate the material some.
The question is if it will result in more of a mangled plot mess or a true television presentation of the books. There is a lot of fat that can be trimmed from the next books, and there is the potential for a good adaptation.
I'll at least give it a look.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
obviously your next will be your first. I exclude Mrs Palm and her her five daughters whom you seem to be intimately acquainted with. Bad writing, bad prose, you should to learn to read and write, does your mummy know your on the computer?
*****a man without god is like a fish without a bicycle*****
It's always interesting to note the attention that works noted as 'classics' get. What I wonder is how much (if any) attention the actual, original -books- get as a result of TV/movie publication? (anyone know of any sites/publications/etc that address this?) Or perhaps to look ever deeper, how much do people actually -read- these days? What I have always found attractive about reading, is picturing the settings, events, characters, etc. in my -own- mind. But in a society where we are getting used to the 'provided content' of TV, movies, the Internet or whatever, how much do we actually -think- for ourselves, still? With the tools of today (especially computers) yes, there is increased potential and oppurtunity for artists to express their ideas. However, I believe this is also a two-edged sword. Artists can express themselves perhaps more clearly and reach a broader audience, but in turn, it's killing the habit of individual thought and interpretation. I mean, who can read something like the Star Wars radio plays and -not- think the voice of James Earl Jones, or the design of Vader's black helmet, if they've seen the movie first? Or in the case of the original Dune movie, think of Feyd-ratha (sp?) and not think Sting? *shudder* Exercise your minds and give your creativity a workout, people, lest they atrophy with a lack of use. If you rely on actors to convey the ideas and imagry of a book, you are cheating yourself of the full experience. Read the book/s, -then- see the movie... "Your mind is like a parechute. If it doesn't work, you're screwed."
There's no wrong way, to eat a Rhesus...
more overrated books adapted for television
I don't love the mini-series. The acting was lackluster. Alot of the plot points were forced, and they left out stuff I wished they'd have kept in. Alot of the stuff that did get put in seemed forced and out of place. The whole "buding romance" deal with Irulan and Paul was completely pointless and stupid, and the screen time could've been put to much better use. But at least the mini-series follows the basic plot of the book it purports to be based on.
I don't care how deeply involved Frank Herbert was with the movie. He was a great novelist, but he was obviously unable to effectively adapt anything for the screen if the Lynch movie was a result of his efforts.
Sadly I haven't read the books, so I'm probably not qualified to even comment, but with acting so bad that it's painful to watch, it's hard to get over the low-budgetness it.
:P
Lynch's movie at least was a good movie. I know it doesn't follow the books at all, and it bastardizes the story, etc. I think the horrible acting and complete lack of atmosphere in the mini-series is too much to pay for a slightly better representation of the books... especially considering that a movie can never really measure up to a book anyway.
Of course the real question on my mind is why is Sci-fi taking on all these old projects. I am, of course, referring to The Shining. An even better movie which they could never hope to even come close to. I guess they must believe that any publicity is good publicity, because both those shows stunk.
BTW, Capoeira rules, meu irmao!
From the interview:
The director thinks Frank Herbert is comparable to George Lucas. Or at least he's so poorly read that he can't find a better analogy to make. I'm beginning to understand why the first mini-series was so disappointing, seemed so shallow and weak, and captured so little of the spirit of the novel.
Since the first time I read Dune, it's been my favorite book. Better than the Foundation series, better than Ender's Game, better even than the 1984 Toyota Corolla Repair Manual. When I heard that the scifi channel was making the first Dune miniseries, I was incredibly hyped. Finally, maybe someone will do this masterpiece justice. But oh, was I wrong. What did we get? Fairview Elementary School and Mrs. Peterson's Third Grade Class are proud to present this year's theatrical production : Frank Herbert's Dune. Obscenely stupid hats, bad acting, cheesy battle scenes and the depth of a kiddie pool all characterized this steaming heap of crap. Even the cutscenes from Westwood's new Dune game (which I am firmly convinced added as a private joke by the programmers at the last minute) are better than this 6 hour monstrosity. Please, please, for me and for everyone else out there that reveres Dune the way I do, take the time, spend the money, fire the writers, do whatever you have to do to DO THESE BOOKS JUSTICE! Thanks
Não jogue lixo nas praias, jogue capoeira!
There hasn't been a lot of true literary Science Fiction on the SCI FI channel until recently. We have had to contend with mostly 3rd rate horror movies and re-runs of remotely SF stuff (except for B5!). So even though, Dune is not even near my favorite SF novel, I was so glad to see the SCFI channel come out with the original series, given that I find the older movie so lacking. The series had its share of liberties taken from the book too but I felt was still better than the original movie. My hope with things like this announcement is that the channel continues to produce these. Indeed, the annoucement has been made that they will be doing two of LeGuinn's works.
I've been reading Herbert's 'Dune' books for years and that's not because I am a slow reader. Those books are layered so deeply I pick up a few more facets with each reading. To expect a movie with a budget and time limits to equal a well written series of books is asking a bit much. Both movies fell short but just might entice a few folks to read the books.
I liked the orignal movie, it may have had poor sfx and such like, but it was a good movie in its own right. However, as an adaptation of the book Dune, which was the intention, it unfortunately sucked ass. The film completely lost the atmosphere of the book, and did David Lynch forget the plot when he made the film? Half the events of teh book, that explained what happened in the film were just not there... also what was with the 'wierding way'?!?! In the book it was a martial art... so what was all that about shouting at a little laser thing? they used swords! Also another big thing in the film was that it started raining at the end of the film... nice finale, but did anybody else read the bit about how water kills the worms? so it rained and all the worms died, and so there was no spice made any more, so the spacing guild couldnt go anywhere any more, and the whole population of the planet arrakis died from withdrawal symptoms from their spice addiction... 'oops' says mr Lynch! On the other hand i really cannot wait to see the remake, and as long as it stays true to the plot and actually captures the atmosphere of the book properly it is guaranteed to be a success in my mind, low budget or not, it is one of the greatest stories ever told and deserves a new lease of life.