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KIllustrator Changes Name to Kontour
Kelmar writes "I found this story on The Register about how KIllustrator is changing it's name to Kontour. Looks like that is not the worst of the problems though. The law firm that originally sent the notice is also asking for $2000 just for sending the letter. Apparently they did this without the consent of Adobe, who is also not too happy about the tone of the letter."
And don't forget to ask for a receipt...
Ford Motor Company has announced litigation against the creators of Kontour, claiming it "dilutes the trademark of their successful mid-range sedan, the Ford Contour".
Ford is seeking monetary damages equal to the engineering invested in the Contour, as well as all marketing expenses and manufacturing costs for 650,000 Contours, totalling $3.4B
I am not claiming that the German system is perfect. It is one way to draw a boundary between public and private affairs, and I consider it to be a reasonable boundary. In the US, the lawyer would probably looked for somebody who downloaded the program, tried to install it under Windows and failed. Then he would sue for all real or imagined problems of that person...is this any better? "Yes, your honour, if the program had worked, I would have stayed at home and the lightning would have struck someone else."
This is by no means certain. However, German Universities are publically financed and in my experience usually do not have a large law department, the funding, or the willingness to contest such things. So the law firm might just try to bluff (or, more likely, someone incompetent send off a standard letter without considering the non-standar situation).Stephan
Stephan
The major difference is who is allowed to initate the action. However, if you look at todays story about Nader complaining to the FTC, the overall scheme is very similar. The major difference seems to be that Nader uses a federal intermediary.
Stephan
So the lawyer is acting not on behalf of Adobe, but on behalf of the public. This generally is reasonable (it shifts the burden of enforcing laws from the tax payer to special organizations which are not supposed to do this for financial gain). However, as always, the system can be abused (and you can count on a lawyer to find the most efficient way to abuse it).
Stephan
And the German law firm now wants to be paid $2,000 for the privilige of the legal equivalent of "First Post"!
I say the firm should be modded down.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The new name is much better anyway.
See? A little lawsuit never hurt anyone.
Adobe would probably do well to give these developers $2000 to pay off the lawyers; it's not like it's a lot of money for them, and it would be a great PR move.
They probably ought to be able the sue the law firm, too. If what the firm did (sending such a letter to a private citizen about a non-profit product) was kind of shady, and it soiled Adobe's good name, I'd expect them to be able to sue. If nothing else, they probably used Adobe's trademark to deny Adobe business while making a profit themselves.
I actually like it better and it's original (I hope
Keep up the great work guys!
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
willing to change the name be an implied acknowledgement of guilt ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
And you'd make a great German lawyer!
Not the first time such a thing has happened. See Apple, Carl Sagan settle suit over names.
- Sam Ruby
Now they're going to be in trouble with this outfit - I'm SURE Kill^h^h^hontour could be used for real estate sales.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Finally an example of a legal system that is nearly as fubar'd as the US legal system.
Yes I am a US citizen.
When I want your opinion I will beat it out of you.
That's what's scary about this. It's a 3rd party suit. The law firm has no connections to Adobe whatsoever, from what I understand. They simply said, "hey, look, this probably infringes," and they send a letter and say "you gotta change it, and BTW, you owe us money now." Adobe never hired them, and they get no benefit (other than a possibly infringing name being removed).
:)
Essentially, it's legalized vigilant--vigalantee--er... add "ism" to "vigilantee."
This name change business was on slashback already last night.
But that lawyer business is news. Isn't it nice to sign away power of attorney?
People who quote themselves bug the crap out of me -- Me.
While I do not advocate taking human life in general, or in particular, I do not think killing all of the lawyers would be a service. They are an unfortunate necessity if we are to have a society governed by laws rather than people/cult images.
... merely the names and faces of those oppressing the public, stripping us of our freedoms, and actively inhibiting technological and social progress.
... severely. ]
However, killing each and every Intellectual Property lawyer (of which these "patent" attourneys are a part) would be a tremendous service to humankind in general. Then again, putting them out of business by repealing said laws would have the same effect and be much more socially acceptable.
Unfortunately, in a world with governments by, of, and for the corporations things probably won't change until some sort of bloody revolution does take place (possibly resulting in the aforementioned bloodbath). Alas, even then nothing of substance will have changed
So, in the end, killing all, or even some, of the lawyers will have no effect, other than making a whole hell of a lot of us feel a whole hell of a lot better. Reason enough, perhaps.
[ For the humor impaired, the preceeding was meant toung in cheak, as humor. If it offended all you law-types, so much the better. If it encouraged you to go out and take human life, please go get some psychological health before you hurt yourself or anyone else. Unless, of course, you are an "intellectual property" attourney, in which case you are encouraged to hurt yourself
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
It is ironic that there exists a country whose civil law is even more screwed up than that of the United States (I lived in Germany for several years and was thankfully unaware of this particular protection racket), something I would have found unlikely after reading about the recent FBI detainment of a Russian software engineer at the behest of Adobe for making public the woefully inadeqaute state of their much-touted PDF copy protection scheme.
This begs the question, though, namely, can the German firm in question be sued for their unilateral actions by Adobe, for (perhaps irreperably) harming Adobe's reputation among libre software users (who number in the tens of millions at this point). Can they be sued in Germany for their actions? How about the United States? And would the suit hold up, given how much Adobe's own actions against those who expose consumer fraud on their part (and yes, the content providors are "consumers" of their flawed copy protection schemes in a very real sense, and are IMHO being sold a bill of goods fraudulantly) harms their reputation among reasonably well informed IT professionals both inside and outside of the Free Software Community?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Why oh why won't Microsoft release a drawing program called Billustrator
Now that would be a long, drawn out court battle.
Trolling is a art,
You know, IntelliNaming and ActiveConventions are worse.
--
People operating computers in environments other than coldrooms, overclockers, and owners of multiprocessor systems are particularly cautioned.
On the other hand, people who are capable of telling the difference between a car and a software application are encouraged to use Kontour, taking advantage of its superior price-performance.
MOO;IANAL.
MOO;IANAL.
There used to be a picture linked here.
This was already announced here the other day, by the way.
If I were Adobe, and if I didn't have bigger fish to fry as far as bad PR this week, I'd take out after that law office with my big legal stick that I normally reserve for hackers that point out security flaws in my products. These renegade lawyers have smeared Adobe's name through the mud with the open source community, doing what would have been irrepararable harm had not Adobe already drawn a bead on its other foot, and now want to charge them for it. Unbelievable.
[Q] What do you call 20,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
[A] A good start.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
So at the same time that I learn I should be forgiving Adobe for a misdeed attributed to them that they (probably) didn't do, I learn of a new one that they did.
O, well. I don't have to revise my opinions of them, merely the reasons. Sigh. I'd really rather that they would act honorably, and justify a good opinion. Much rather.
OTOH, if they were so disapproving of what was done, why was there no public statement in support of Dr. Sattler? So I don't think that I can actually assume that they really disapporved of it, merely of the response that it got.
I suspect that Adobe's evaluation was more along the lines of "That was ill-considered. Pick your targets more carefully from now on." At least that would be consistent with the public evidence.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The law firm used their name. They have been silent about this. They have not, so far as I have heard, issued any public statement saying that they disapprove of the action or of the process.
And I have no evidence that the law firm acted without their general approval. Merely that it could have. And the Register has said that Adobe disapproved or something (the bad PR?) about the case.
Appearantly the law firm acted in a vile, repulsive, extortionist, and legal manner, given German law. There is probably no legal recourse that Dr. Sattler, or anyone else, except possibly Adobe, have. And I doubt that Adobe would bother, since they haven't even bothered with a public statement of disapproval.
I don't think the action was against the desires of Adobe. I think they just wish people would be quiet about it. And given the balence of the evidence, I suspect that the law firm had at least a tacit understanding with Adobe that allowed them to use Adobe's name in such an action.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Knoqueror?
:)
Surely you mean Killustrator?
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Nope, sorry KDE and esp KIllustrator is essentially a German production (the master development servers are hosted in Germany) and Dr Uwe Satler works at a German University (Magdeburg). It's only Adobe who are US owned and even they have registered offices in Germany, so US law dossn't apply (unfortunatley in this case, but they don't recognise software patents in Germany [yet] so it's not all bad)
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Most trademarks only apply within their own domain. I suppose exceptions to that would be names of supermarkets that sell things with a broad range of domains.
But since a Ford Contour is a car, unless Kontour is in the car selling business, they shouldn't have a problem IMHO. But IANAL.
The angry man always thinks he can do more than he can. -- Albertano of Brescia
you should do so. It brings up a good point:
The Law Firm who sent the letter was not acting as an agent of Adobe. In Germany, it's common practice (apparently) for law firms to send out these kinds of letters when they see a trademark violation, regardless of who the clients are, and they expect to be paid for your violation.
Actually, I like the name Kontour. It's pretty clever, like Konqueror and Krayon. Also, the K convention is a good thing - makes KDE applications instantly recognizable as KDE apps, and gets stuck in people's minds.
Now that Adobe's (legitimate) concerns have been addressed, I hope the KDE crew tells those nosy, blood-sucking lawyers to stick it!
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
The law firm was not retained by anyone, especially not Adobe. The firm was acting alone, in an apparently common move in the German legal system, when it sent it's letter demanding money. How this law benefits Adobe or is different from extortion, I'm not sure.
-sk
It looks to me like nobody wants to pay the lawyers...
And for the first time the people who are going to be screwed are... the lawyers.
Wooo, the world is changing so fast lately!!
Now I think I get it. And yes, I can see the similarities (especially after having read the other /. stories today).
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
In my way of thinking, this makes the actions of the German law firm even lame. In what manner was the law firm protecting the public from purchasing the wrong thing? I suppose if Germany is one of those countries where there is metered internet access, but if it's 30 DM per month unlimited, what exactly is the public risk?
It also seems to be a bit of a vigilante type system. Why not let the goverment do this, with an impartial trying of fact? I assume that were the University to refuse to pay (or the Dr.) that the law firm would go to court. I then assume that it is nearly impossible to get a court to disagree with the law firm. At least, in the US, that's the way it would work.
(BTW, I'm a USian. This is my analysis of your laws. If anyone reads this and says "fuck you, we do things our own way" I reply "fuck you, you certainly don't shut your yap and avoid criticizing our laws". It's a two way street. Let's face it, the laws in EVERY country are fucked up.)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Typically (again, blanket reminder, from a US perspective unless otherwise stated) private lawsuits are decided by impartial tryers of fact: judges. In this case, it seems (at least as far as German law has been explained in this and other discussions) that the law firm can, at its own discretion, decide who must pay for what. Further, the 'what' is damage and confusion to the public.
In one sense: something happened. In most instances in US law, something has to happen. Until recently, 'potential' problems aren't or weren't actionable. It would certainly help the case (at least my opinion of it, not necessarily the legal justification of it) if they could find one person who had suffered measurable harm from the confusing name. Barring that, I would like to know of a plausible situation where one person COULD come to harm (physical or monetary) owing to the confusion.
Were there a Corel Killustrator for $99.95, I could see it. Not a freely downloadable KDE/Linux Killustrator.
Perhaps this is the trick that is keeping me from accepting what you are saying. I was under the impression from the earlier post that German companies (or their representatives) could undertake actions like this for the "public good". If that is the case, then while a line between public and private concerns is important, it matters not, as this issue is a public one. Given that it is a public issue, a public forum should be the one to decide it (and that is a gut, emotional response. I'm sure that had I paid attention when reading Locke, et al. that I could offer a more reasoned response. But from my POV, it just makes sense.)
Ahh, found the quote from the earlier post:
Then let the public pay. I didn't pick those attorneys to protect me (okay, yeah, I'm in the US, but let's pretend I'm a German citizen).
I'm sure that this issue (and the laws upon which it hinges) are more in depth than presented here. I'm also quite sure that owing to differences in national mindset, I might never fully comprehend the rationale behind them.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I think I just slipped into a world created by Kafka.
:)
Kafka was just documenting what was already out there. It's been out there for a while now
deus does not exist but if he does
Bollocks.
We have quite strong laws in the UK about libel and slander - if they posted anything knowing it to be untrue they could be sued for a lot of money.
A lot of the whining about The Register comes from wierdo Americans who don't understand humour.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
"Several law firms in Germany have taken up the business of writing "Abmahnungen" to anyone who earns money with a product that can somehow be construed to infringe on somebody else's copyright." (my emphasis)
If that distinction is correct, since Dr. Kai-Uwe Sattler gives away the software, he should be safe from this law firm's attack.
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
Great. This teutonic ambulance-chaser has zeroed in on someone without defenses while appearing to represent the interests of a company not particularly inclined to take notice of the "offending" free program.
The OS programmer gets stressed and Adobe gets a ration of dung in the form of "900lb Gorilla" bad publicity.
We can look forward to more fun of this sort as WTO regs begin to be enforced and shady lawyers begin to exploit loopholes.
They are suing a German, in Germany over an alleged infringement of a German trademark.
Best Slashdot Co
Problem is, they might not have any "real" client. This "Abmahnungen" stuff is a very lucrative business, and certain lawyers (Gravenreuth) can survive solely on that...
In the US, it's much easyer. There Adobe simply sicks the goons to haul off any dissidents ass to jail, and that's it. But hey, they'll probably claim it wasn't done on their initiative either... I only wonder why the Russian ambassy didn't protest louder against this obvious violation of the Human Rights of one of their citizens.
They would also do well to pay off Dmitry Sklyarov's bail so that he can get back to his democratic home country...
All the good themes have been taken and turned into Theme-parks. - HHH, Pump up the Volume
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
If this works, I'll never have to work again!!!
-- Watch the REAL Jon Katz.
So, it appears that in some countries, vigilantes and snitches are encouraged throughout the system, eh? Oh well, I guess I'll never do business in Deutchland again.
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I hope I'm not the only one that would like to contribute something towards that $2k.
Someone should post an address for donations.
My cat can eat a whole watermelon
I'd send an equally threatening letter charging $2001 for the time needed to read the letter...
...but I'm a bastard that way.
'Nuff said.
The German law firm is not working for Adobe. Adobe apparently has nothing to do with the cease-and-desist letter being sent. Read the article again and be enlightened.. :o)
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Ehm.. Did you read the article..? The German law firm is not acting on behalf of Adobe. Adobe never hired these guys. So Adobe is in no way responsible for what the law firm does. And I think that we might see some action from Adobe's part against the law firm. At least that's what I'd like to see.. :o)
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
When informed of the suit, Dr. Sattler said he would then change the name to "KItsADamnIllustrationProgram,Alright?"
Well, that's funny, coz a few weeks ago, we had a bomb attack against a lawyer firm here in Holland... somebody is actually doing this.
--
Bizar technology?
I want y'all to know that I fully expect this incredible thoroughness to continue.
Didn't we hear about the name change in Last Night's Slashback?
At the risk of being A) the eight hundredth person to point this out or B) flamed beyond all recognition, wasn't this story in Slashback?
Ok, with my thinking cap on, I suspect maybe the new-news is that Adobe's law firm isn't backing down on the $2000, despite Adobe possibly being less than thrilled. "Lawyers don't work for free!" was the quotation I'd heard bandied around.
Yeah, it's an asshole thing to do. But, let's look at it this way - did they do something? Yes. They both sent out a letter (expensive paper) and got the name changed. Is that worth $2000? We'll just have to see.
How about just hyphenating it to:
kill-us-traitor
Yeah. McNobody uses McNames to make products McPopular. It wouldn't make any McMoney.
Disclaimer: IANAL, but I'm from Germany and I try to follow news on our IP law.
The idea behind this, crazy as it sounds, seems to be that the law firm acts in the interest of the recipient of the letter, by letting him know that violates someone's IP and might face damages if he continues to do so. For this "service", the law firm can indeed charge money.
Right. If the recipient declares that he will desist from whatever he is asked to, but does not pay, the law firm can only sue him and prove that sending the letter was in fact in his interest.
No, Bob(TM) would have realized that the company name is Microsoft(TM), not Windows(TM) before hitting submit.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Gnot to gnitpick, but the gnext gnaming convention is gno gnicer...
Word(TM). Windows(TM) doesn't Exchange(TM) any letters in the names of their Works(TM). They Access(TM) a Word(TM) directly out of the dictionary sitting on the Bookshelf(TM) in their Office(TM). They've made a lot of Money(TM) doing that, and their Outlook(TM) for the future is even better. A lot better than the Outlook(TM) for Me(TM), anyway.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
on the Internet.
This reminds me of the "enterprising young men" in New York City who come up to cars stopped at traffic lights and begin washing the windows, then obstruct the car and demand payment for services rendered.
Seriously, if I were Adobe I'd retain a different German law firm to sue these guys for "endangering Adobe's good name."
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
There's an excellent update on the Reg explaining the concept of these unsolicited cease and desist letters, incl. the German legal stance on them. Check it out.
Gee, what an easy way to get Jon Katz involved. I wonder if we will now get a 3 part essay about your comment.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts do - Lew of GO magazine
There is a car called the Ford Contour. Any lawyers care to comment on the implications of Kontour vs Contour? Any risk of a lawsuit?
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I am really suprised that they did not get 20 or 30 letters, all asking for $2,000 per letter.
Fight Spammers!
Contour is an american name. Too bad also, the new Mondeo has been praised by the Euro press as a great handling platform. Its also used in the Mercury Cougar (which we *can* get) and the Jag X-Type.
They then turn around and charge a couple thousand DM to the recipient of the letter, even though the "infringer" immediately complied with their demands.
Pretty nice, eh?
---
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
But I think I know what one of the next stories is going to be.
"The Register Goes Down"
To take this to a rediculous extreme:
Person #1: Excuse me, your shoelace is untied.
Person #2: Uh, thanks. <ties up shoelace>
Person #1: That'll be $5000 for my advice.
Yes, the advice may have been helpful, but did the recipient ever agree to pay to recieve the advice? If not, why do they have a right to ask for money and then sue?
If I send them a letter complaining about how they should shut their yaps, can I charge $2000 to them for it? I'm going to try.
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
I think Shakespeare (I think) said it best when he said "Kill all the lawyers!"
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
...
Can the law firm working for Adobe demand that legal fees be paid to them from Killus..., the product formerly known as Killustrator? Wouldn't this be Adobe's problem?
Especially since they never tried contacting them without a lawyer...
(And yes, I know they can, but is there any legal basis to believe that they should get paid).
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
...and this sort of thing is a common "winding down" process at the end of a volley of threatened legal action. The law firm is just trying to recover some costs of producing the legal documents sent to the K team. However, in the event that the K team totally ignores or explicitly refuses to pay that fee, the firm's only recourse would be to sue for that fee. In most cases like this, it's an idle threat; the K team could ignore the threat with no problems. But, since KIllustrator (as a name) did have the potential to dilute Adobe's trade name, the firm, as a retained legal representative, had the right to send such a letter, and therefore is entitled to insist on legal fees paid by the infringing party.
Oh arse
Shoulda called it KilleveryoneatyourhighschoolbecauseofQuake.
Imagine!
jack's bicycle is music to my ears
Ok, how many people ACTUALLY USE(D) Killustrator? Not too many I imagine. How about they just say they're going to cease and disist, but just go underground. Save a lot of money and headache here people.
~LoudMusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
let's patent every word starting with the soubd "K".
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
There's only one way to resolve this...
MORTAL KOMBAT!!!!
Could they be any more short sighted? They might collect the $2K, but if Adobe really doesn't like their tone and how they handled/are handling this, they'll probably be cut loose. Short term gain, long term loss. They'll probably just continue to harass people on behalf of their other accounts.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Gnot to gnitpick, but the gnext gnaming convention is gno gnicer...
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Klearly(TM) we Kan(TM) see that these Korrupt(TM) Krauts(TM) Kan(TM) not get away with this KRAP(TM).
Kome Kloser Komrades, and Kollect together in Kommunal Kandour and bring these Klowns to a Konclusion.
Kwickly.
So how long until Ford sends a letter of their own on behalf of their Contour?
And yes, I know they don't compete in the same industry. Like THAT matters anymore...
GTRacer
- Thinks IP disputes could be settled by a little deathmatching
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
What a Kweer name. I don't think that a naming Konvention like that is going to help them make in roads into the marketplace.
I still think it should have been TAFKAK - The Application Formerly Known As Konqueror.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
Why am I not surprised? Another /. reader neglecting to read the actual article...
"You can take our lives, but you can never take our Flerbage!!!!"
The firm in question has an e-mail address. Let them know how you feel about their sleazy activity! Write them at: rsw@isarpatent.com I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from Slashdotters ;-)
bin ein dumme schlamper. sorry, my german isn't very good
If you didn't read about this earlier, you might want to check out these /. stories about the Adobe vs. KIllustator name conflict.
-Kraft
-Kraft
Live and let live
Hi! This is the Sig, blatantly attached to the end of this comment.
Everyone send one penny (Or Pfennig etc.) to the law firm... University of Magdeburg Kontour Project c/o Reinhard Skuhra Weise and Partner P.O. Box 440151 D-80750 Munich Gerrmany
jeez - those lawyers take time out of their busy schedules to write a nice letter helpfully explaining a possible copyright problem that is none of their business but fully within the scope of German law and now nobody wants to pay them for their trouble!?!? What has this world come to?
Do you have any idea how much time and effort it must have taken for those lawyers to randmonly overhear someone mention the name "Killustrator" down at the Kaffeehaus and write a couple of letters? Wow...lawyerin' is a tough gig! No wonder people love them so much
Perhaps if instead of emailing these cannibalistic lawyers who just want to eat people, we could email their clients and let them know how unhappy we are that they have chosen such a tyrannical firm. I'm sure if it came to dropping their demands or losing one of their real clients, they would make a more sensible choice.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
So I guess while we were savaging Adobe for this attack, Adobe had nothing to do with it all along. Question is, are there analogues to this strange legal quirk in other countries (like the US?) Are there good reasons to end the practice in Germany, and if so, is anyone trying to do so?
Finally, we have heard about a logical, fair, balanced resolution of a problem by both sides here on Slashdot. Obviously the lawyers, as is normal, still don't get it. Charge the company you work for, not the litigants, you morons!
It warms my heart to know that there are sleezeballs the world over and not just here in the good ol' USA.
Oh wait, that'll just make slashdotting worse.
GreyPoopon
--
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Personally, I think it's worth it to Adobe to step in and pay off the lawyers: the geek backlash against them has been bad already. If those lawyers collect their fee, Adobe will be seen as complacent, at best. A mere $2000 can make them seem like a friend to the open source community.
Then again, they just had Dmitry Sklyarov detained by the FBI for breaking Acrobat's encryption, so it's probably too late for their hacker-friendly image..
*This page intentionally left pointless*
Imagine, shortening the name instead of changing it.... "killus"....
===> An eye for an eye makes everyone blind - MG
From the article: "It seems that in Germany law firms can write cease and desist letters to businesses they think are infringing another company's trademarks, without being employed by the latter, and demand payment from the company on the receiving end of the letter. Apparently some law firms make a good living at this." Not paying up is the only way to stop this business. The university shouldnt pay a dime. Next thing we know even /. is going to be asked for me from some law firm just for sending a letter...
Perhaps Adobe is unhappy with the 'tone of the letter' from the attorney --- but, their actions, by not requesting payment from killustrator, remains an action by Adobe. This attorney obviously has an attitude problem which requires correction, and if the attorney's client is unhappy, then the attorney must correct his problem at the request of Adobe.
Continue to pressure Adobe to withdrawal this monetary request. But, who at Adobe should we contact?
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
From the article:
IANAL, but I've just read the German law, and this is definitely not legal, at least not the way they've done this.
It is not forbidden to act on behalf of someone without being ordered to do so (this is called "Geschäftsführung ohne Auftrag", which means "doing business without being ordered to do so"), but if you're doing that, you...
I don't know how exactly these laws are applied to lawyers, but I'm quite sure it's not legal for any lawyer to act on behalf of a someone who's not his client.
BTW, I'm quite sure similar laws exist in the U.S. and most other countries. Otherwise how could you (legally) do someone a favor before he knows about it? Suppose you see someone's computer catching fire while he's not there. This law makes sure you can legally turn it off, even if the owner want's it to be running 24 hours, as you can suppose the owner is more interested in not having his house burn down than in having his computer online all day. (This is also a typical case of "immediate danger", so you don't have to await consent).
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
No. Abmahnungen (cease-and-desist letters) can be sent for various reasons, including trademark infringement.
It is also possible to send such letters on behalf of the public, to enforce consumer protection laws, but this can be done only by organizations that are registered as consumer protection organizations, and they only get registered if they're non-profit (I think). Most law firms are however working for profit, and thus cannot sue on behalf of the public.
(There has been a case recently where a "consumer protection organization" has lost their right to sue because they were also doing business for profit. Read this article (german) if you're interested.)
Also, a lawyer can't just act on behalf of someone who is not their client.
It is however possible - and I guess that's what Adobe did - to hire a law firm to "protect your trademarks", and them let them do so on their own, without asking you about each and every case.
Disclaimer: I am German, and live in Germany, but IANAL.
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
No, you're thinking of the Chrysler K Car. Of course, Chrysler is owned by Daimler-Benz, so I guess they're German too...
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Damn, thats a messed up law. Perhaps I'm too cynical, being American and all, but what possible useful purpose could a law like that serve? When would be a good time for the 'infringed' company not to know about legal threats on their behalf for someone else's benefit?
The infringed party should at least initiate this. They don't have to spend money, they could simply authorize a law-firm to do this... if it's got enough attention that it is hurting a company, you can bet they will know about it, so why have lawyers chomping at the bit to leech everybody who makes a poor choice. Your argument is like saying cops should patrol private property and shoot anyone that doesn't own it...
Why am i not surprised? Another example of big company beating up on any competition. Ooh, nasty evil linux people aren't using our product, oh look, Killustrator is similar to illustrator! Sue them!!!!! You know, at least where i live you have to register attack dog types......maybe the same should be done for lawyers? And like jd said, this whole thing of a german firm billing an American company for that letter....hmm....interesting......what if i could do that? Hey look (insert name of german law firm here), we had every employee at Adobe write you a letter, at $2000 apiece........ouch.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&o
1-800-SUE-THEM does connect to a law firm
- I will NOT turn into a snake... It never helps