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Review: Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
In a way, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is a series of inside jokes, albeit some very funny ones. Smith gets that movies are a universal experience of his young audiences. Still, only attentive, die-hard movie buffs will get them all. The cast, plots and references are closely tied to other Smith films, lines, scenes, actors and plots, along with some that aren't his. (There is a hilarious spoof of Good Will Hunting which Ben Affleck and Matt Damon good-naturedly join in.) Smith's studio Miramax is continuously ridiculed (Bob Hope also used to poke fun at Paramount in some of his road-trip comedies with Bing Crosby). Chris Rock pops up with some riffs on race.
The movie's director, Gus Van Sant (CT:Good Will Hunting, not J&SBSB of course), has a funny bit part, and Smith parodies Charlie's Angels, The Fugitive (so specifically he includes a reference to Provasic, the drug that nearly destroyed Richard Kimble's life), Scooby-Doo,Hannibal, and even Star Wars (Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill appear, the latter in a loopy take-off on the mythic brawl between Darth and Luke.
The Net figures heavily in this sometimes hilarious if uneven movie, yet another comedy that self-referentially uses pop culture as humor, reference point and plot line. Jay (Jason Mewes) and Silent Bob (Smith) are outraged to learn that kids online are flaming the movie based on the comic book -- Bluntman and The Chronic -- that the pair inspired. Besides, they're not getting a dime out of any of it. Jay, who's never even heard of the Net, is astonished to learn that people can call you names online, and he flames them back, urging them to lick his private parts. He and Bob set out for Hollywood to stop the movie's production and end the besmirching of their alleged reputations. They have various misadventures along the way, including dust-ups with a nun, the Utah State Police, animal rights activists, federal wildlife officials, and nasty child geeks.
There is, of course, the inevitable moment when Bob speaks -- as always, finally provoked by the genial stupidity and crudity of his "hetero-life mate" Jay. This movie backs off from the controversial religion-bashing of Dogma, which triggered some boycotts and threats on Smith and the movie's producers. If the movie is frequently gross in the now-standard scatalogical way of studio films aimed at the hip and the young, it is good-natured and easy-going, not even remotely controversial. Jay is still obsessed with getting laid and with his and everybody else's masculinity, but this round is much more relaxed about it.
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is less of a coherent movie than a series of one-liners, set gags, set-ups and cultural in-jokes and spoofs. There are moments of genius and of stupidity, also flashes of satire and comic genius. It works best if you've seen a substantial chunk of the Smith canon. If you haven't, a lot of it will sail over your head. But it will still probably be the funniest movie you've seen all summer.
I have my Katz filter on, but then he appears under a different category, like "Reviews." Is there any justice left in the world?
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
This movie is mainly a continuation of Chasing Amy, and tries to tie up the rest of the movies; Clerks, Mallrats and Dogma.
It will also be the last live-action movie featuring these characters. There is, however, a new animated movie on the way, supposedly. Clerks: Sellout, the story of Dante and Randall being offered lots of money to make a movie about a day in their lives.
As with a lot of Smith stuff, you'll either love it or hate it, and a lot of it is fan service for people who've seen his previous movies.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Any particular reason the Katz filter didn't catch his usual crap this time?
Dinivin
Wow, a jonkatz review that I agree with...hope Satan is enjoying the day and making a snowman.
From the test screening of Jay&Silent Bob I saw a month ago, as well as the final version I saw last week, I'd compare this movie more to Mallrats than any of Smith's other flicks...lots of dick adn fart humor, and even more rhetoric. A formula that has only been pulled off successfully by the New Jersey "Trilogy".
If anyone's really interested, go check out the "Chasing Dogma" comic book graphic novel, published by Oni press (and written, of course, by Smith). About half of the movie is ripped, or at least inspired, by the comic.
And go see the movie, so that Miramax will throw more money at View Askew, and Smith can keep churning them out.
Lawen
"Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" is a better movie name than "Attack of the Clones."
WTF?
You obviously aren't one of those aforementioned fans of movies, especially Kevin Smith's. He's the writer/DIRECTOR.
Kevin Smith directed the film, not Gus Van Sant. The latter directed Good Will Hunting and that's why he's in that area of the film.
The pair is called Bluntman and Chronic, not Bluntman and The Chronic.
Of all the times Silent Bob speaks, this is the only time it's provoked by Jay's stupidity. In Clerks, he speaks to Dante to convicne him that Veronica loves him. In Mallrats, he delivers his Jedi line. In Chasing Amy, he tells the story of Amy to Ben Affleck's character. And in Dogma, neither of his two lines are delivered to Jay; one is to an extra, the other Chris Rock.
Isn't there something that requires movie reviewers to actually know something about the movie they're discussing?
I saw it on the sneak preview and laughed my ass off. There were some people there who hadn't seen any Kevin Smith movies and they laughed their asses off. It's just a funny movie. Go see it.
Carl G. Jung
--
"With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
> The movie's director, Gus Van Sant, has a funny ..
> bit part
Hasn't Jon ever heard of actually reading this stuff before posting it? Shouldn't this sentence be up in the paragraph actually about Good Will Hunting (whom Gus van Sant actually directed) rather than making it seem like "The movie" (ie Adventures...) was his work?
The talk in the theater after i saw the movie last night is that this is the last View Askew production - with various quotes at the end of the movie (as us cult followers knew there would be) and the closing of the View Askew Book by "god".... Why i haven't heared anything directly saying that this is the last one, it would be sad if it was.
Other than that - J+SBSB is the best of all of them! Go Jersy Trilogy! (5!)
Upeo
The movie I think was a good close to the series of movies that have been going on for years now. I was just surprised to hear that no one in the theater that I was in didn't get the space balls reference. Also, is it just me or is there a Mac in every movie that I have seen this year.
The movie is some funny shit. Although the fact that it does have a bad plot like Dude Where's My Car, at least the humor in it is not juvenile. This and Dogma are up there as some of the funniest movies from Kevin Smith that I have seen. I also love the cameo appearances from characters from previous movies. You definitely have to see this movie.
My girlfriend and I found it outright the funniest, and most outright clever movie in a summer full of duds. But... I'm a big Kevin Smith fan, and I've got all his flicks on DVD, so I wonder how the movie would be recieved by a Smith Virgin.
Jason Mewes actually carries this movie, which is remarkable, since I think no one was more surprised than him that it went so well. He's hardly the mainstream movie star like Affleck or Jason Lee.
Also, while 'movie parody movies' have been a subgenre for ever (see: Scary Movie to Naked Gun) there hasn't been one done well in ages. This one is both bang on in it's attacks on those movies, but it's obviously done with love and respect, which makes it all the more clever.
At it's core, it's a road trip movie, which, since Capra invented the genre, has always proven to be a treat; the potential for unpredictable characters and situation is hard to exceed, and Kevin Smith handles it admirably.
All in all, after a summer full of disappointments (see: A.I. Kiss of the Dragon, Evolution, et al.) this was refreshing, fun and Smith's most inside joke, and simultaneously, most accessible movie yet.
If you have some patience for a seemingly offensive movie - but with a lot of heart - you couldn't do better this summer.
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
I'm sorry, as a long time fan of the Kevin Smith films ( including having all three of the J&SB stash signed copies of the other films ) I though this one sucked. There was too much happening, and the whole movie bordered on ego stroking for each member of the film. You could see the gags comming a mile away, and most were not funny.
I have and continue to watch the other three movies, but this latest one was a waste of time. It lacked and decent plot development, or charm of his other films and the endless slow motion girl shots, dick and fart jokes, and re-use of old over used one lines really just got annoying.
Go see it if you like Bluntman and Chronic "Dick and fart jokes", but if you are looking for the charm and humor from his other films just pass on this one.
To which Spaceballs reference are you referring? I was paying pretty close attention, but maybe I missed it, as there was a lot of laughter from the crowd and quite a few of the lines ended up getting drowned out.
As for funniest movie of the year, well, maybe, but I still think some of the funniest stuff I've seen in a theater this year was the outtakes from RushHour 2. I guess you could take that as some sad commentary on the state of Hollywood/etc., if you were so inclined.
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
I've had a review of this movie on my site (Spine.cx) since last wednesday, albeit a much less popular site than this one :)
:)
Come join that discussion, not already tainted by Katz
http://spine.cx/article.php?sid=9.
side note: people if you can not get the titles right or the order of the movies complain don't complain about them.
Kevin made of couple of comments in the View Askew hinting that this probably will not be the last we see of Jay and Silent Bob:
"Well, there's a surprise in store for ya'll if we win the weekend. A very nice surprise, if you like Jay and Silent Bob."
"I know this may come off as desperate, but there's one more thing I'd like to do with Jay and Bob before I put 'em to bed, and in order to do that, we need to win the weekend."
The disclaimers are really funny. I'll stop there and not ruin them for you.
If you stick around through the credits to catch a glimpse of Alannis Morrisette, check out the diclaimer right after the "No animals were harmed..." one to see how Smith addresses the the accusatioins he's been recieving from GLAAD that the film is homophobic - its the little things that make his movies great.
Sound waves should be free!
Anyway, it's nice to see Shannon Elizabeth has opened two movies in two weeks. Perhaps we'll see more of her in the future.
Wow. Katz actually did something halfway right. He still needs to head back to journalism school (read: How to be a bigger idiot school) though.
You should stay to see the end of the credits
'nuff said
If the internet is for slandering people anonymously than I think I have a pretty good example. Here you can find one of Kevin's production assistants venting about what an A-hole he is. If you're a fan or not, this is a pretty good read.
This movie was for all the Kevin Smith fans out there first and everybody else second. And in that way it was a successful movie. I don't imagine it will be a smash hit or anything, but it is so far my favorite movie of the summer. Go see this one if you haven't already!
The subject title for this story had a line saying "3107 bytes in body". If that's not over-active sexual-activity, I don't know what is.
"In his previous movies -- Dogma, Chasing Amy, Clerks.."
You've forgotten Mallrats.
"This movie backs off from the controversial religion-bashing of Dogma..."
/., but it's usually off-center geek misinformation, not repeated mainstream misinformation).
Wrong. That is the accusation that was lobbed against Kevin Smith, but I'm disappointed to see this mainstream misinformation repeated here. (Yes, I know, there's plenty of misinformation on
Dogma was a funny movie that parodied religious dogma, not religious beliefs. Kevin Smith was and is a Catholic, and the movie was actually respectful of Catholic beliefs -- just not rigid dogma. Typically, this flew right over the Catholic church's head and they protested, looking ignorant in the process. I'm surprised to see Katz repeating this untrue accusation here.
________________
Private Essayist
Late?? Lame?? YES!!! This brings down the already sketchy content of /. Can you do me a favor....and try?
if katz had even seen dogma..
probably not, i think he was just parroting what some others had said, aka typical katzspeak.
In a sense, I thought that the movie nicely tied everything together (if by everything, you mean Jay and Silent Bob walking off with Suzanne at the end of Mallrats)...
But seriously, if this truly was the last Jay and Silent Bob flic, I'd say that it was a nice finale. I laughed so hard for the second half of the film, once everything got rolling. And the cameo's were terrific (Jason Biggs and James Van Der Beek as themselves, Joey Lauren Adams playing Amy, and her "friend" Trish, who was played by Renee Humphrey, of Mallrats notariety; Carrie Fisher playing the nun, that Harvard bastard from Good Will Hunting playing himself, etc). And what about Mark Hamill playing a Batman-type villian in something other than just voice (for those who don't know, he plays the Joker on Batman the Animated Series)...
Call me easy to please, but I loved it simply because I like paying attention to silly, tiny details and seeing references to them in later films. That, and simply put, Kevin Smith put forth a funny-ass picture. Kudos...
First winter rain-
even the monkey
seems to want a raincoat.
-Basho
Yes, but the Mac in this movie was hurled to the floor where it belongs!
good luck,
sopwath
The last few days the site is hosed half the time. Now, I can handle not being able to login, or links not working correctly, but now today my config choices are ignored and I'm getting this John Katz shite again. Unacceptable.
Never thought I'd hear Katz say that.
As many have noted, this movie includes a truckload of references to Smith's earlier works as well as other films. Most of them are great in-jokes and a way to pay homage to his greatest characters. The one thing you walk away from the film feeling however is that Kevin Smith made this movie so he could hang out with people he likes. In fact, it almost seems like the entire purpose of the movie was to get to dance with Morris Day and the Time.
To me, it's a much-needed slap in the face to people that make all the hideous stuff that gets churned onto the screen these days. Finally, a guy having fun with a movie...
Of course we torture people, we need the information --Gen. Pinochet
i'd just like to say, the funniest movie i've seen this summer has to be rat race. the premise may be stupid, but there are a LOT of hilarious setups in this movie. in fact, i'm going to go see it again tonight.
Suprise, Suprise... Katz missed the point. He seems to have a real knack for missing the point of whatever movie he is bashing/reveiewing on a given week.
Maybe it's that Katz is just out of touch with today's movie going public (as much as he tries to seem like the opposite), Dogma did not bash the catholic church, it merely pointed out some of its more absurd practices and policies.
Mall Rats (which didn't even get mentioned by Katz), Clerks, Dogma, and Chasing Amy, and now Jay and Silent Bob Strike back are more movies for the teen/college age group, and most people who fall out of that category (cough...Katz...cough) don't seem to get it.
As Katz said it, if you have not seen the other Kevin Smith movies, Dogma, Chasing Amy, Mallrats, Clerks, then you will miss some/a lot of the jokes. There are also seens from the short comic book series called Jay & Silent Bob: Jay & SB with the monkey in the tunnel with the Wildlife Marshall (parody The Fugitive).
ZERO ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ZERO ONE ONE! Just brushing up for my next big invention: Ethernet over Voice (EoV)
This time the sub-theme is the Net and the waves of brainy but obnoxious adolescent jerks who have helped set its sometimes nasty tone in recent years.
Did Katz see the same movie I did? Saying that "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" is about the Net the same way that Dogma is about religion is just plain wrong.
"JASBSB" seems to be Kevin Smith striking back at Hollywood after making four feature length films. The entire movie is about making movies, from Affleck's early comment of "Who would go pay to see a movie about Jay and Silent Bob?" to the sequel to "Good Will Hunting" being an action flick.
It is interesting to note that "JASBSB" knocks Mirimax who has helped distribute most of Kevin Smith's previous works.
In the end, the movie is about making movies, not about the Net. It is very humorous at times, and is full of cameo appearances (Carrie Fischer as a nun?). It even makes fun of the four previous films at times and cleans up some loose ends.
And how did Katz get passed my Katz-filter?
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Also, Holden's line:
The best irony in the film is a joke on many levels. Jay and Silent Bob become incensed about posting on moviepoopshoot.com which is registered to:
Registrant:
View Askew Productions
PO Box 400
Red Bank, NJ 20902
US
Registrar: Dotster (http://www.dotster.com)
Domain Name: MOVIEPOOPSHOOT.COM
Created on: 09-JAN-01
Expires on: 09-JAN-03
At a deeper level though, Smith is ranting about postings on Internet message boards, made even more ironic by the focus of his site which contains an extensive message board, to which he posts. (And occasionally answers questions.)
I found the irony and asides to the camera to be great fun in this movie and would highly recommend it on the basis of in-jokes alone (Of which the material I mention is only a tiny part.)
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
In the movie Jay and Silent Bob orignally go to hollywood because people just like us were talking smack about them on a website just like this. They then proceed to try to stop the movie. Along the way Jay and Silent Bob find out that with all the money they get they can travel to everyone's house and beat the crap out of them. So all I have to say is watch out and, you rock Jay and Silent Bob, just in case!
well then, i guess we should expect to see two or three new albums from her any day now just like 2pac.
Dammit, I thought I had jon katz filtered out. What is this crap? I want a refund.
Anyway, while I'm here, I thought I'd throw out a reference to Affleck and Damon from the Filthy Critic in his review of Dogma, which was right on the money.
Ben "I still can't act" Affuck and Matt "My friend can't act" Damon are two fallen angels [...]
I semi-admired Smith's work before Dogma. Clerks was a diamond in the rough, and Chasing Amy dealt fairly intelligently with a sensitive subject. Even Smith panned Mall Rats as being the product of a studio that wouldn't let him have creative control.
Finally, Dogma came out. Here was Smith's opportunity to shine. He had the money to hire some big names, the clout to make the film he wanted, and it was based on a pointed look at religion and Catholicism -- a favorite subject of mine. But he blew it! Smith was okay when he was pushing the limits to gain some credibility, but now that he's made it, his self-congratulatory, 7-11 pseudo-intellectual rants are just lame.
I really wanted to like Smith's movies so much. There's a kernel in his work that I want to see flourish, but Smith's execution just leaves too much to be desired. The Filthy Critic really hits the nail on the head when he describes the problems with Dogma. I would recommend reading the review. It really rates a +5 Insightful.
I think I'm going to pass on JASBSB and maybe see it when it airs on HBO. Smith doesn't get me out to the theatres again until he gets a little hungrier.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
the movie really sucked folks. I mean blew the big one.
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
It's as if he sat down and thought about what statement he could possibly get the MOST wrong.
Dogma is anything but bashing religion. What Dogma criticizes is the way some people choose to blindly worship the church. This, like most things, upset the church. Dogma is actually a very pro religion film, albeit one with plenty of good dick and fart jokes. The message Kevin wanted you to take away from the film is believe in god because you think it's right, not because some old institution tells you to.
-Jeff
I like to play with Shiny Objects and Yarn.
Kevin Smith and Scott Mosier were both executive producers on Good Will Hunting.
Criticize Kevin Smith, and I'm a troll? Piece of shit moderator you are.
Reminds me to metamoderate more often.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
when idiots like Katz get to post crap all over it
While the movie continues some of the plot elements of Chasing Amy, the tone of the movie is a sequel to Mallrats. All five of the movies are good but Mallrats and Strike Back are full of juvenile humor while Chasing Amy and Dogma are trying to make statements. Clerks is just plain weird...
Katz is an idiot. That is all. Thank you.
The movie's director, Gus Van Sant (CT:Good Will Hunting, not J&SBSB of course), has a funny bit part, and Smith parodies Charlie's Angels, The Fugitive (so specifically he includes a reference to Provasic, the drug that nearly destroyed Richard Kimble's life), Scooby-Doo,Hannibal, and even Star Wars (Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill appear, the latter in a loopy take-off on the mythic brawl between Darth and Luke
You forgot all the great references that Jay and Silent Bob make to itself in the movie.
As I would say, the movie was meta-funny.
---
I'm just an ordinary man with nothing to lose.
because it was a troll you jackass! smith didn't blow it with dogma. Noman was a bit much, but otherwise it was a great flick. The rest of your drivel is just too pathetic to reply to.
Yes. Religious dogma are religious beliefs. No kidding - try looking it up next time.
PS. Any serious Catholic - in fact, almost any serious Christian - would tell you that that film was extremely offensive. Are you saying Catholics thought they were offended, but were actually mistaken ("typically flew over their head")? I mean, what makes you the arbiter of offense all of a sudden? One would expect that the Catholic Church, since it is Catholicism, can say whether the movie was respectful or not.
Besides, you appear are prejudiced against the Church anyway, so you wouldn't be the greatest judge, I don't think...
I was very dissapointed that Alyson Hannigan didn't appear in this movie.
Even if she didn't appear with hot grits(tm), then she could of stood around and been cute. That would be worth the price of admission for me.
. . . about marketing of meta movie. Whoo boy, have we crossed a self-referential line here or what?
To see what I mean, check out http://www.jayandsilentbobstrikeback.com/, which is supposedly an ANTI-Kevin Smith site that is in fact registered to:
Registrant:
View Askew Productions
12610 Braddock Dr 107-d
Los Angeles, CA 90066
US
Registrar: Dotster (http://www.dotster.com)
Domain Name: JAYANDSILENTBOBSTRIKEBACK.COM
This is some sort of reverse-astroturfing or something. I can't even keep this self-referencing straight anymore. Sheesh.
-J
p.s. I thought the movie was hysterical, though.
I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners. - Berke Breathed
You encourage people to go see a movie, and then your sig tells us to fight the MPAA.. make up your mind!
One future, two choices. Oppose them or let them destroy us.
I haven't seen this movie ... and Im not gonna ... and heres why: I've seen all the other Kevin Smith movies, and for awhile I thought they were really great ... but the more KS you see -- the more you start to really hate the guy. His plots are a vehicle for the dialog between his characters ... which wouldn't be a bad thing *IF THE DIALOG WASN'T SO CONTRIVED*.
KS movies aren't in touch with anyone and aren't in tune with anything or anyone. A great remark I heard on PBS "The difference between Steven Speilberg and Martin Scorsese (sp?) is that Steven Spielberg wants to make a movie that touches everybody, Martin Scorsese wants to make a movie that touches Martin Scorsese."
Which is really what this comes down to -- this movie is prolly a masterpiece to KS, but to me its a heaping pile of ...
Lastly, Id like to pose the question, where does katz get off liking these guys then panning something like the final fantasy movie ... both were devoid of meaning and were generally awfull movies. The difference though, is jon katz is incapable of liking an "insider" film and is incapable of hating an "outsider" film. The glass is half empty for FF and half full for J&SB. Tried and convicted john.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
The Spaceball ref is in the part when they are in the van. and Jay calls Stiffler (from american pie I and II, thats the only name I know him by :o) ) Prince Valient.
This movie was presented as giving a gift to the VA fans. That it was. It was completely designed to be what they would want to see... and that's why it was so bad. Some artists evolve this way - first they write creative works with new ideas and then they go back and pander to the people who liked their earlier creative works. If it weren't for the fact that this was the final View Askew universe movie, Kevin Smith would have taken a huge step down that path with this one.
Here's an example. In Chasing Amy, the "You're not an artist, you're a tracer" joke was funny because it was carefully set up. In J&SBSB, it was funny because it was set up in the other movie. This wasn't a movie as much as 90 minutes of repeating jokes from his other movies. It was more like a fan fiction set in the View Askew universe than anything.
This isn't to say that the movie is a complete waste. There are some funny bits in it. Every now and then a spot of brillance peaks through. In general though, Smith went for the easy joke every time. The Velma is a lesbian gag was trite years ago after all.
I'm looking forward to his next picture though. For the first time in a while, he'll have to create a picture without his usual crutches. It'll be interesting to see how that goes.
I dont' think that was a Spaceballs reference.
The Spaceballs character Prince Valium was a double reference to that character - he was as boring as Valium and he also had the look of Prince Valiant (a medieval-set comic strip that originated in 1937 by Harold R. Forster).
Kevin Smith was probably referencing this to make fun of the character in the van - both to rip on his really bad and really outdated haircut, and his "Heroic" animal rights ideals.
plus referencing the source of a pop culture nod is totally in line with Smiths attitudes.
Sure the movie was good overall, it had alot of jump cuts, but it had an air to the cheesiness of comic books so its cool...
But Iron monkey, ROFLMAO, theres a preview for this supposedly kick ass martial artist, but his name is Iron Monkey HEHEHEH. Can you beat the monkey, or will he spank you?
This movie was damn good, last good movie I saw before it that had me laughing was Fight Club. Kevin Smith movies rock.
God spoke to me
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, *Insightful=1*, Total=2.
Saw it last week at a sneak preview, and will go see it again to catch any pop-culture references or anything else I might have missed the first time.
Great performances by all involved-- not 'master thespian' quality, but good enough to entertain, which is what' s important. Probably the funniest parts were Affleck & Damon ripping into each other, and much the same from the two actors set to play Jay & Silent Bob (I'm trying not to give away anything for those who haven't yet visited IMDB's J&SBSB entry).
Only thing I didn't care for was Will Ferrell's character-- even for this movie, it went beyond so-stupid-it's--funny and landed in just-plain-stupid. But his name was good for a chuckle if you grew up watching Sid & Marty Krofft stuff and got the reference.
~Philly
Mmmm ...
The only other thing I didn't like was that there wasn't nearly enough of Shannon Elizabeth and Eliza Dushku, parading around in those black latex outfits....<drool>
~Philly
Plagairaised from Merriam-Webster:
dogma, noun:
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church
According to the actual dictionary, then, "dogma" is what the church tells you to believe for no reason. "Believe this because we say so." "Dogma" is where a church considers itself to have a monopoly on truth.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Spoilers below
I don't recall seeing Smith make references to the old Kroft shows before, and I'd have to say that I loved the two references to Land of the Lost.
I didn't notice many people laughing at them, so I was kind of thinking they may have been more obscure.
Chris Rock's character's name was Chaka (LoL's little monkey boy that hung out with the lost family)
Will Ferrell's character's name was Marshell Willenholley (LoL's lost family. I was in hysterics when I heard that one)
Loved the movie! Was exactly what I expected it to be, and was lots of laughs. Can't wait for the DVD.
It's too bad that Kevin Smith is retiring the characters (he doesn't want his daughter to think he's a "walking, non-talking cartoon"), but what a way to go. Having the only two recurring characters hit the road for a picture of their own!
I met Smith and Mewes while they were filming Dogma in Pittsburgh. Both are fun guys to chill with, and are alot like their on-screen counterparts in many repsects (though Smith talks alot more than "Bob"), but more down to Earth in alot of other ways. I'm gonna miss seeing these two nuts tear it up on the screen. Snoochie Boochies!
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
Bluntman and Chronic and their stupid alter egos Jay and Silent Bob only work in small doses, if at all. They don't deserve their own movie.
Hey, a lot of stuff you mention was not seen on movie posters and other press material. Did you circumvent some protection device to watch the movie? Like a movie projector?????? If so, you are in violation of the DMCA! Officers from the movie studio will be moving in shortly to take down ./ and JonKatz as well.
"In his previous movies -- Dogma, Chasing Amy, Clerks -- Smith chronicles..."
Why does everyone always forget about Mallrats? Just because the critics panned it, doesn't mean it should be forgotten. It's a toss up between Mallrats and Dogma for Kevin Smith's best picture.
My karma is in a nose dive
Check out jayandsilentbob.com to see some guy who is vehemently against this movie, the characters Jay and Silent Bob, and Kevin Smith in general. Sheesh, there were much worse movies this summer to direct all of your energy into starting a small rebellion against, than Kevin Smith's latest work...
I excluded this blabbering idiot from my homepage on purpose, yet his shit still shows up. What is the deal with that?
"...make them eat our shit, and then we will make them shit their shit, and then eat the shit that they shit; a combination of or shit."
"Still, only attentive, die-hard movie buffs will get them all. The cast, plots and references are closely tied to other Smith films, lines, scenes, actors and plots, along with some that aren't his. (There is a hilarious spoof of Good Will Hunting which Ben Affleck and Matt Damon good-naturedly join in.)"
In the above quote it appears that Katz is saying that Good Will Hunting isn't Kevin Smith material. Kevin Smith is a co-executive producer for the film.
Because I was high, because I was high...
At the theathre I went to, everybody was laughing.
10 quid says the last two posts are by the same person...
Fry: heh, Yakov Smirnoff said it
Leela: No he didn't.
was that dig really necessary? my mac, running os x, worked out of the box with ALL the hardware i have installed. my pc with linux/*bsd didn't. patches, kernel updates, or dealing with windows to use some hardware. Windows sucks, Linux will stay in the server and appliance market because OS X brings functional UNIX to the desktop. -something Linux is STILL trying to do.
I cracked up when "Marshal Wilenholly" introduced himself, but I'm afraid most of the audience was too young to get it. Marshall (the family's last name, but also how the father is often refered to, besides Rick), Will, and Holly are characters from Land of the Lost, a Seals and Krofft show that aired in the early '70's.
Posted by JonKatz
I have this idiot filtered out, why are his "stories" appearing on my front page? Maybe he's coming out with a new book again, like last time this happened.
324006
Blah, blah, fuck, blah, fuck, blah. Look at me: I just wrote a Kevin Smith movie.
Smith is over-rated by the older sub-culture and by the mainstream "cool to like this stuff" college kids. In the words of a genius, (the filthy critic): Kevin Smith is a fucking presumptuous cocksucker.
But don't feel bad...I spotted two errors in Ebert's review. Can you?
[boostventilator]
20 quid says the last three posts are by the same person... 50 quid says the last three posts were by a UKian...
Don't patronize this movie; it is subliminally advocating strong intellectual property rights. Everyone on Slashdot knows that Jay and Silent Bob have no "natural right" to determine what others can do with their creations. Intellectual property protection is evil! Information wants to be free!
My pastor was the one who told me about Dogma. Yes, it pokes fun at religion, but it does not challenge faith.
It was actually very moving at times. Take the scene where Linda Fiorentino was struggling with being up to the task of saving the world, and the angel tells the story of having to be there when a young Jesus was starting to understand his mission. Or the scene in the parking garage where Ben Affleck is letting loose about being kicked out of heaven and missing the presence of God, and that the humans don't even realize what they are missing.
If that's offensive, it is only so because of the very rigid, do-my-thinking-for-me dogma that the movie is about.
Remember, that Jesus himself was one who challenged the "dogma" of his age. He was a lawbreaker in the minds of many because he healed on the Sabbath and touched the unclean and let prostitutes pay him honor. What he did was more offensive as the movie Dogma.
It was not that long ago that Anabaptists, some of the most Christ-like people of their age, were persecuted by the Catholic Church for being offensive - by practicing adult baptism (rather like the baptism Jesus had, I suppose). Just because people take offense at something does not mean that it is bad; it is often an indication that it is good.
Dogma challenged the beliefs of Catholics who go to chuch, say the prayers, do the ritual, but have not faintest idea of what they are saying, and live no differently than those who reject the Church. I would suggest that those people need their belief challenged. And I would say that it's too bad Kevin Smith has to do it, but that is only because their priest won't.
Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
Nice, but no-one else will get it.
I saw dogma but I didn't know that the dude who did it did it as part of a series, nor did I pay any attention to who did do it. Just another nameless faceless Hollywood type to me (somebody said he lives in Jersy, oh well, not like I'd get that from the movie).
HTF are people supposed to know that it is part of a series?
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Some interesting tidbits:
1) baby Silent Bob is portrayed by Smith's infant daughter, Harley Quinn Smith (aweome job of naming, btw)
2) One of the four animal activists ("Missy") is married to Kevin Smith
last, and MOST IMPORTANT - make sure you stay to the very end of the movie - I mean the VERY END - right before the screen goes dark - and you'll get a nice surprise.
Look at the address. Its different from the
"real" View Askew:
View Askew Productions (VIEWASKEW-DOM)
P.O. Box 400
Red Bank, NJ 07701-0400
US
Domain Name: VIEWASKEW.COM
Anybody care to email me and tell me what
happened in the last scene with Alanis as
God? Due to stupid people wanting to leave
the theater as soon as they saw credits on a
black screen, I missed it.
Well, Mallrats beats most of the lame movies (of any genre!) released this summer. And the version you saw on cable was probably the lame-o dub-over that removed the original, critical dialogue that made this movie so damned funny. I'm not saying it's the funniest comedy ever made, but I'd still say it's a must-see in terms of 90's comedies.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Actually.. they claim they are from New Jersey but if you watch from details, Mallrats and Clerks
were filmed in Minneapolis, MN. Just check out the license plates on all the cars in them.
> was that dig really necessary? ... {snip}
> Windows sucks,
Was THAT dig really necessary? How about you Preview your post before submission to save yourself from sounding like a complete hypocrit? Just because Slashdot is Linux favored doesn't mean people on here don't enjoy Windows.
DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
"In his previous movies -- Dogma, Chasing Amy, Clerks -- "
Hey Katz, You forgot to mention my personal favorite, Mallrats. There is this funny thing called "research" and it really helps when writing those "article" thingys.
'Man, they were lightweights!'
Excuse the typos...this is fast...
;)
First of all, there are 4 Kevin Smith movies that include Jay and S.Bob. Clearks, Mall Rats, Amy, and Dogma.
All 4 of these movies play a big role in the humor embeded within JSBSB. In my mind this is what makes the movie so great. JSBSB is the hub of Smiths other movies, it adds a new time frame to the past 4 movies, links everything together, and makes you recall some of the best jokes of the old movies. ie Snow Ball, Bob & the force, the fact that Donde is getting screwed on that day at work, Chocolet covered pretzels, the "amy story," the "inker" jokes...yada yada yada.
As for the dick and fart jokes. JSB are dick and fart characters. Period. I went to this movie knowing there were going to be a lot of slap stick dick and fart jokes.
Furthermore, a lot of these dick and fart jokes were only there to build upon what you knew from the past 4 movies, and to entertain an viewers that had not watched the past view movies.
This movie was great... it made me think, and yet it didn't at the same time. JSBSB saved summer for me
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
that Kevin Smith managed to get Hamil and Fisher and did not put them into some sexual
Like the subject says...the inside jokes made this movie. You NEED to see Clerks, Mall Ratts, Amy, and Dogma before you see this movie...or your not going to get 75% of the jokes. And these are by far the smartest jokes.
This movie was awesome...if you don't get the humor within it your missing a few brain cells if you ask me. And no, I'm not talking about the dick and fart jokes. (some of which were quite funn though).
Anyone glad that the movie started out with Jays rap from clerks? I love the fact that they kind of went into his head this time and gave him a phat beat. hehe...that was awesome.
And on a side note. Man..Donte got fat.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
You just completely missed the joke. Now go watch the movie.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Kept hearing about people bitching about the new slashcode. Never really saw what they were talking about. Then I see this Katz article. Dammit, I'm sure that I set my preferences so that I wouldn't have to read this guy. I check the preferences. Yep, it's still checked. Damn. I guess that I will just stay away until that is straightned out.
you dumb bastard
clerks was filmed in an actual convenience store that smith had worked in
"So this is what it feels like
You even mentioned Scary Movie, which came out last year (2000)
Reviewers in general take on a Howard Cosell tone. They need to emit words to justify themselves.
Nutshell: this movie is sophomoric entertainment. If you want that, you will be pleased. I laughed, I cried, it was a part of me.
If drug glorification, homoerotic obsession, notional plot, and obsequious in-jokes offend you, your entertainment dollar is best spent elsewhere.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I object to your calling Evolution a disapoinment.
:)
I mean, what did you expect from an alien invasion movie starring Muld..I mean, David Duchovny? From that synopsis, I think they managed to do something pretty darn good.
+ its got the greatest product placement ever!
You can't take the sky from me...
"That was the biggest mistake since Gweedo shoots first"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The only thing funny is how pathetic he is... in 50 years, nobody at all will remember or care... at all.
And now it's Hollywood, eh? If Katz is saying that this is a satire in the same way that Dogma is a satire, that's all the info I need to make an informed choice to skip this movie.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Another mediocrity bites the dust. Praise Arioch and break out the Hawkwind records.
******
"What makes you think I care about your opinions?"
Curse me and my lack of moderation points.
-Docvert converts MSWord to OpenDocument, clean HTML
"Hmm... here's an article by Jon Katz, who I hate. Lets see, I could: A) Scroll down a couple inches and read the next story, or B) Read the article, in depth, noting every little error. Then, take the time to post a comment saying that having to scroll that extra 300 pixels a couple of times a month is an intolerable waste of my time, instead of doing something that might actually fix this, like sending an email to someone in charge."
This is John Katz spe... aaargh! DCMA
--> Your Wisecrack Here
Am I like the only 20 something who doesn't know who these guys are?? I never even heard of them until recently.
:) lol
Perhaps this is a sign that I'm spending way too much time with my computers???
Well gee, sorry, retard, I guess you'll just have to write to the MPAA and ask them to make sure to number the movies that comprise a series, so idiots like you can tell that it is a series.
Were you equally flummoxed to find out that, say, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade were preceeded by Raiders of the Lost Ark? You probably shouldn't watch any James Bond movies, they might make your head explode!
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back was my last hope for a good summer blockbuster. And it succeeded. All the rest were from OK to mediocre to bad to worse: A.I., Shrek, Planet of the Apes, Jurasic Park III, Atlantis, Lara Croft, The Mummy Returns, Final Fantasy and even the execrable Pearl Harbor (As Kyle in South Park said, "There is no God ... Michael Bey keeps making movies."). Though the best low key movie I saw this summer was The Dish.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I wouldn't call Dogma "religion bashing". It got a lot of protests, but the movie itself was not actually particularly "bashing" religion. It may not have had the literary punch of _Last Temptation_, but it was still a movie with a lot to say to religious people, and very little of it hostile.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
I think he is referring to the guitar playing guy played by Sean William Scott (Stifler from American Pie) being called Prince Valium as he is being thrown out of the van. They had him dressed up to look like Prince Valium from Spaceballs.
Sorry man, but they even had the freakin' Asbury Park Press in the convenience store in Clerks. That's just a couple miles from where my parents grew up in NEW JERSEY.
While I suppose they could have brought a stack of newspapers to MN to film it, they could have just as easily brought license plates from MN to NJ. I'm inclined to trust the director...
As my friends may know, I had very high hopes for this film. Indeed, it was the only film I was going to pay for this summer.
Wow.
We've lost another one.
Much like Lucas, Kevin's brain appears to have melted as well.
What a lousy, LOUSY film. One giant, vulgar joke. It made me wince to see how he managed to get so many cool names throughout Hollywood to make cameo appearances; he burned up all the positive Karma he'd earned with his first films in 98 minutes. What a terrible shame.
All the good stuff I've come to expect from Smith was missing; the lucid & witty observations about society and culture made from an X-Gen perspective contained within impossibly clever dialogue. Totally gone. It was all just retarded sex-humor and Muppet style physical gags which serve only to widen the gap between real world observations and hokey magic land bullshit film making. It made Dumb & Dumber look like pure genius. Heck, that fucking nothing film had a plot, direction and sense of balance. This thing was just self-congratulatory and juvenile.
I really hope Kevin can get past this turkey, because I suspect that he's not actually been replaced by a pod-person; he's just a guy who made a terrible misjudgement and is now probably feeling about as low as it's possible to feel.
Anyway, what I heard after seeing the film was that despite some initially promising screen tests, it ran into some really bad tests. In a last minute panic, they bumped it from opening on Wednesday as planned to opening Friday, providing less time for word of mouth to travel before the big weekend cash grab.
So much for movies this year. At least we got the Cohen brother's film, so it wasn't a total waste. (Or was that last year. . ? Hmm. .
-Fantastic Lad -Dazed and Ill from bad film Ju-Ju.
I guess Jason and Kevin will be knocking on my door anytime now. Except I know Lad-Fu.
I have to disagree. I think the bit that threw you is that he had 2 points on this one, both of which were very personal to Kevin.
1. It's damned easy to criticize when you don't have to face the consequences, or even the target, of your criticism. This is both the internet's greatest strength and weakness, as it allows us all to voice our opinions, but anonymity also has the drawback of taking away our credibility.
2. Hollywood is a weird, weird place, where your life and career can hinge on which studio exec shows up for work on any particular day.
There was a lot of other minor satire. Let's face it, though. Dogma was pretty heavy, if you REALLY watched it. I think Kevin probably decided not to beat us over the head with this movie, and give us all a chance to laugh and relax.
But if you look real close, there's that hidden meaning...
If you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
The only thing I thought was worse than Dogma was that idiotic, verbal jerk-off-session that called itself a "critique" over on Filthy Critic.
-- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@pobox.com PGP KeyID: 0x0BD32C9B What I'm up to: http://intuitives.mine.nu
He said, "...done well...".
I thoroughly enjoyed this film.
Second of all, I found its "wrap-up" of the View Askew Universe to be fairly good. My only question is, where was Brodie's girlfriend, and why is he no longer the host of the Tonight Show?
But anyways, if they can manage to get suzanne the orangutan linked in, then it's definitely covering most bases in terms of a wrap-up.
damned shame it didn't make top box office, even with the "see it twice" promotion.
This tastes like granma! By george, you're right! it DOES taste like granma! We'll take a box of it!
They ain't done with 'em yet!
What? Like Clerks? Mallrats? All the fecal humour in Dogma? All his movies are stuffed full of sex humour and gross out jokes.
You haven't seen a Kevin Smith flick yet, have you? That's okay. He was making fun of you the most.
Yes, he wrote and directed Clerks, Chasing Amy and Dogma. But you forgot mallrats. =P
Now, the original poster, I'd say qualified as insightful, or interesting, as he went and explained in some details what he found objectionable about Kevin Smith's work in Dogma. [I'll admit, however, that some people might find it off topic, as the article was Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, not directly Kevin Smith, but I'll accept it, as it's an intelligent, well thought out message.]
The one which I'm replying to right now, however, I would qualify as a troll in the blink of an eye. Dogma does make a few good points about the concept of dogmatic teachings, and Rufus [Chris Rock] explains the critical difference between beliefs and ideas. To some, the movie may provide insight, and make you think [much like the lasagne line from Clerks], however, I will agree that there was a significant waste of talent in the movie.
Cameos for the sake of cameos can ruin any movie with a real message in it. Luckily, Jay Silent Bob Strike Back had no set message to it (unless you qualify 'fast food can give you gas' or 'beware of what you way on the internet').
The only justification for the cameos in Dogma would be that the provided additional comic relief, to help to lighten up what has always been a touchy subject. Unfortunately, you run into problems if people don't understand what's going on, and see comedy, and just assume that it's satire.
Even Shakespeare, when directing other people's works that he ripped off [yeah, okay, it's still up for debate...I couldn't care less, probably just because I know I wasn't the one who wrote 'em], left in the comedy parts, so as not to overwhelm the stories in one direction or the other. You can look it as a sort of 'yin-yang' approach to story telling -- much like in asian food, you don't try to completely overwhem with one flavor, one texture, one color, one shape -- hot is contrasted with sour, soft chicken with crunchy cashews, orange carrot flowers with a brown garlic chicken, round sushi served on square plates.
Is Kevin Smith doing it subconciously, and I'm just reading too much into it, or did he really intend to do it? Only he knows. [As well, I don't believe in Alanis Morisette]. Did he pull it off? Well, it depends on what exactly he was trying for. In this case, you have to balance getting the point across, with making people like the story, identify with the characters, and not decide that the story's so powerful that they're going to go and kill themself. However, the director as to decide which things are more important to them.
If you don't like something, saying 'it sucks' is one of the greatest disservices that you can do. Explain why you think it sucks, at the very least. If you can't take the time put some thought and effort into your criticism, you're wasting everyone's time who reads your post.
As someone who's been on BBSes, usenet, muds, and these damned 'internet messge boards', I can say that the anonymity created can be a very bad thing, as people don't have to be held accountable for their messages. With BBSes, you could get your access revoked, with usenet, you'd get your mailbox flooded, with muds, you could get your character removed, but with a message board of this size, there's no repercussions -- you just get another throwaway e-mail address, and start over again.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
You haven't seen a Kevin Smith flick yet, have you? That's okay. He was making fun of you the most.
Yes, I've seen a Kevin Smith film; Have you? While not stoned?
I KNOW his other films used base humor. But it WORKED in those films. It wasn't the sum total of their substance. It enriched something greater. But in Jay & Silent Bob, it seemed to be the sole point.
As well. . . All his other films could have taken place in the real world, (with the exception of those muppet style swinging from the rafters antics in Mall Rats). --His first four films were like stage productions of real life, with excellent observations. This film had far too much dumb shit, cheapening the effect of the already non-existent observations.
Oooh. Hollywood is artificial? Who the fuck doesn't know that?
Oooh. The Internet is the internet? Again, who cares?
Dogma was about religion. Chasing Amy had plenty of new things to say about relationships. Clerks had a lot to say about life in Teenage Wasteland. Mall Rats wasn't ground breaking, and it had the dumbest shit of the first four films, but it at least at least didn't break the rules! --Silent Bob thought he used the Force. He wasn't actually USING the Force. One is clever. The other is stupid.
A film which ignores the physical & logical rules of our reality cannot with any integrity contain social and cultural commentary from this reality either.
Now don't go thinking that I'm some stick up the ass film critic type. When I say 'social and cultural commentary', I mean the same scenes everybody was quoting to each other after they saw and loved the earlier films. This film had NOTHING memorable about it, except perhaps for the very end and the 'What the fuck is the Internet' line.
Now, go smoke yourself. And learn the new Slashcode already. Your paragraph spaces are too big.
-Fantastic Lad
I haven't seen the movie, but I saw a half-hour promo show called Reel Comedy, with clips from the movie and interviews with Kevin, Jay, and the other cast members. It was very revealing.
The first time I watched it, I thought something really weird was going on. They were openly admitting that the movie was complete trash. Why would they do that? Why would a cast of 50 recognizeable names agree to appear in such a bomb? Why would they make the movie at all?
The movie is clearly a public celebration of something, and at first I thought maybe it was Kevin's coming out as an actor. It's not. It's his coming out as a gay man.
Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes are gay lovers. They were hanging all over each other in the interview, being cutesy, and cracking jokes about their relationship that were...well, they didn't seem like jokes.
I think I was lucky to have seen the promo show, with Kevin talking and pretending to joke about which one of them takes it in the rear. It must have been less obvious in the movie itself, because only one commenter pointed out that the movie has an openly gay theme. I think we are right...it's the only explanation for what I saw.
Actually, Mallrats was filmed at the mall of america or some crap in MN, Clerks was filmed in Jersey, at the store that Kevin Smith was working at the time (I believe, he may not have been working there anymore when the film was made) They had to film the movie after the store closed for the night, which is why the shutters are always shut in interior shots, etc
Slackware: old school feel, new school gear.
Disagree completely with Katz. This movie was a shallow half-assed vanity piece by what's his name. We liked most of Smith's earlier productions, but will now think twice before we darken the doorstep of another Smith movie.
It was lame, trite, simple-minded, cartoonish, but without any of the benefits of cartoons. And Jay and Bob just cannot sustain a full length feature.
Filthy critic says it best with his review of Dogma:
Dogma" is the story of second-tier characters of the Bible and Catholic doctrine subjected to a comic book geek's love for minutiae. It's a tedious exercise in mental masturbation by a guy who loves hearing himself talk, made by an industry with so few new ideas that they're afraid to edit him. The movie tries real hard to be funny, but unless piles of talking poop and the same joke ad nauseum is your idea of hilarious, you'll be sadly disappointed. And, if there is a message, it's completely lost under the lame jokes, clunky plotting, and non-stop yammering.
http://www.filthycritic.com/
--- Matthew Hill
"To quote the self is an act of the self riteous and uninitiated sub-moronic" - Matthew Hill
And which is conveniently established at the start of the film when the shutters can't be opened....
I say we take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...
i heard it as Prince Valient, replayed it in my mind to see if it was a spaceballs reference, and decided he really did say Valient and not valium.
could be wrong though
-- My Sig is a P228.
Nuff said.