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Red Hat 7.2 Released
Spirit writes "Red Hat has anounced the release of Version 7.2 distribution with Gnome 1.4 and Nautilus, default ext3 fliesystem and according to ZDnet migration from LILO to GRUB"
Updated by HeUnique:There are some issues to note before upgrading: The kernel that comes with the RH 7.2 is heavily patched 2.4.7 and has been tested quite heavily on fully loaded Linux boxes - so the recommendation is to use it
If you're upgrading from the previous Red Hat 7.1 and you're using Ximian GNOME, then you might want to erase all Ximian GNOME RPMS (use the command: rpm -e `rpm -qa | grep -i ximian` --nodeps to erase the RPMS). Red Hat's GNOME RPMS has been more tested then Ximian's one and there is a conflict between them. You cannot use Red-Carpet on Redhat 7.2 as it will fail with the RPM libraries.
These are the most critical notes about Redhat 7.2. You might want to read the README & the Release-notes which appears on the 1st ISO image.
Oh, and if you already installed it - then have some fun with the new un-official RPMS from Enigma's section of FreshRPMS
To forestall the inevitable questions
-- why not reiserfs, xfs, jfs, etc.
First look at the total feature
list of ext3 and compare, in particular the
compatibility (forwards AND backwards) with ext2.
There may or may not be better candidates for
a fs, but there are certainly none better for
a default install.
I have been playing with the 7.2 betas (roswell) since it came out, and with the 7.2 release for about a week now.
I am very pleased with Redhat 7.2, it has given me very few problems, and it was the first Linux distribution that installed into my laptop without any tweaks.
The main enhancements (as visible by the user):
Grub instead of lilo (but you can still use lilo if you want to ..).
Grub is a great boot loader, similar to the "boot monitor" of real
Unix hardware. Grub understands the file system, so you do not need
to reinstall Grub every time you update your kernel (like you have to
with lilo). Once you are in the grub boot promt, you can boot any OS on
your system (eg. from a floppy)
Mozilla and Nautilus: (I am a gnome user)
Mozilla 0.9.2.1 is a rather old release, but it was the release chosen by Netscape for NS6.1 so it is quite good. Nautilus is 1.0.4 + a lot of patches from RH (Alan Cox ?) to speed things up. Natilus is still somewhat slow, but I don't use file managers so much, so I don't care. I think that you should have at least 128 MB ram to run it, is was slow on one of my test machines with 64MB ram and a sub optimal disk system. Seeing the speed and stability improvements of Mozilla in the last 6 months, I am quite confident that Nutilus will be a great file manager (++) in a short time frame. It is a very good "eye candy", and impresses every Windows user seeing it. If you for one reason or another, don't like Nautilus, use the good old GNU Midnight Commander instead (yes it is on the CD).
Kernel, gcc, ptyhon, etc
The kernel is 2.4.7 + a lot of patches. Since RedHat 7.1 is at kernel 2.4.9-6 already, I believe that we will see an updated kernel soon. The main compiler is RedHats own 2.96 + modifications, and python is at 1.5.2-35. You will find gcc 3.01 and python 2.1.1 on the CD which can be installed separately. RedHat 8.0 will probably use these as default.
Postfix, Apache:
Redhat has dropped support for Postfix (a sendmail replacement), which used to be on the Powertools CD. I really don't know why, but I hope that the next RedHat release will fix this major bug. Apache is the rock solid 1.3.20.
Executive Summary:
RH7.2 is a polished good distribution. Since it is a .2 version, RedHat
is going to support it for a looong time, and it will become the first
choice for many system administrators for serious linux servers (that is,
until 8.2 is released).
RFC1925
Red Hat 7.2 isn't quite a knife in the heart of Windows yet. However, we can't help but feel that it will certainly nick a major artery.
I nicked a major artery this morning shaving. Those things hurt pretty badly and bleed profusely.
I hope to see Bill Gates with many little pieces of toilet paper on his cheeks at the XP launch.
Linux just seems to be going from strength to strenght while Micro$oft struggle to persuade their (l)users to upgrade to yet another version.
It just goes to show the power of the Open Source 'bazaar' development model.
I am a bit concerned about this GRUB thing, does it replace LILO ? I've only just got the hang of lilo after all these years. I hope all my enrgy has not gone to waste.
Anyone know if this version will have support for the new higher speed USB that is coming out soon ?
Everytime I download a distro, within a week a new one comes out. I just finished downloading all 3 CD ISOs for Red Hat 7.1 and Tools and now they release 7.2
I'm switching to FreeBSD. Those guys update MUCH more slowly...
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
I was surprised to see that, too, as the GNU Grub page says, "GNU GRUB is not released publicly yet." On the other hand, doesn't Mandrake use GRUB?
Nothing to fear with GRUB. I've been using it for about a year. Configuring it is a little different than with LILO, but it works fine.
This has been at my local CompUSA (Fairfax, VA) for over a week. Anyone have any ideas as to why?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I'd love to read a comparison between these two famous Linux distros: features, stability, ergonomy... That would be interesting!
Does anyone know when will Red Hat have RH Linux 7.2 available in a commercial package (e.g., manuals and CD-ROM discs).
I still haven't seen the commercial package release of Linux Mandrake 7.1.
FAT? Hardly! ext3 uses is built on extension hooks designed into ext2, allowing you to mount ext3 partitions with an ext2-only kernel (of course no journalling in that case). Also, it takes a few seconds to "convert" ext2 to ext3, can't get easier than that! :-)
Personally I find it impressive that the foresight in the ext2 design allowed for ext3 to evolve the way it did with the backwords compatibility
And hey, it just works. Performance is like ext2, except you never have to fsck anymore when the machine doesn't shut down properly. And your ext2 bootfloppies still work, you don't have to reformat your partitions first, and did I mention it just works? :-)
So why not? ReiserFS would be more suited for news spool and squid cache partitions, but if you just want your same old system except for the fsck's, ext3 is the way to go.
"Enigma" - wasn't it the name of this German machine that was used to encrypt secret messages during WWII ?
gcc 2.96-RH is all open , always has been. Gcc 3 is not quite compatible so wouldnt be appropriate for the base tools for a new release. It is on the CD though if you want it
The only nonfree stuff on the RH distro should be netscape, and we recommend mozilla 8)
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GNU GRUB != GRUB. I don't know which version this is, but RMS will be annoyed if they've left off a GNU... :D
/sbin/grub, it supports Logical Block Address (LBA) mode that solves the 1024 cylinders problem, and TAB completes a filename when it's unique. Of course, many bug fixes are done as well, so it is recommended to use GNU GRUB.
From the GNU GRUB Faq:
1. How does GNU GRUB differ from Erich's original GRUB?
GNU GRUB is the successor of Erich's great GRUB. He couldn't work on GRUB because of some other tasks, so the current maintainer Gordon Matzigkeit took over the maintainership, and opened the development in order for everybody to participate it.
Technically speaking, GNU GRUB has many features that are not seen in the original GRUB. For example, GNU GRUB can be installed on UNIX-like operating system (i.e. GNU/Linux) via the grub shell
If it's much like 7.1, disc 2 will contain alot of server daemons and the like.
http://freshrpms.net/misc/enigma.html
Also, don't forget to go get all the "missing" goodies (xine, lame, nessus...) from http://enigma.freshrpms.net/
Happy download! :-)
Matthias
Im surpised: ext3 as a default fs!? Is there an option to use ReiserFS instead of ext3? I've converted all but / and /boot to reiserfs more than a year ago and never had any problems with it. I think that ext3 has not been tested by public as much as reiserfs.
UK folks should findu ti ons/redhat/7.2
ftp://zeniiib.linux.theplanet.co.uk/pub/distrib
nice and fast (its the new linux.org.uk test box)
Alan
It has been my experience with RH that the .2 releases are the most stable and contains less bugs than the .0 or .1 releases. I've run servers with the 6.2 and the 7.0 release and the 6.2 always provides more stability than the 7.0
Of course I never jump on the bandwagon as soon as something is released. I always wait around for ppl to say something and hear complaints.
The only exception to this is Debian, apt-get upgrade using Sid and haven't had a problem yet ^__^
The feature list includes Netscape 4.78, which is proprietary (although free of charge). I can't find a link, but I read an article about Red Hat reluctantly leaving in Netscape, as they felt that Mozilla is not ready.
But it may just as well be.
I've been using RH since 2.0.27 on a 386SX/12, and like many of you, have stuck with Red Hat in one form or another for many years. However, recently Red Hat's distrib has begun to suffer, largely because of oddball decisions like the ones we're seeing in 7.2.
LILO has been replaced with GRUB. Why? So we can confuse things even more for the people who we're trying to attract to the platform? If it aint broke, don't fix it, gang. You have an installed user base that knows the ins and outs of LILO, and has for years..Now that knowledge has been deprecated. Books will have to be rewritten, headaches arise, the whole nine yards will unfold as people have to sit down and digest yet another piece of Linux minutia..Why bother. LILO works. Sometimes switching one working part with another for only minimal gains is NOT a good idea..the situation doesn't mandate such changes.
Cheers, and yes, PROPAGANDA is still running,
Bowie J. Poag
On this page, a redhat employee explained why they chose ext3.
It was also the topic of a previous slashdot post.
This extract sums it up :
Why do you want to migrate from ext2 to ext3? Four main reasons: availability, data integrity, speed, and easy transition.
[...]
Again, we don't claim that every one of these points are unique to ext3. Most of them are shared by at least one other filesystem. We merely claim that the set of all of them together is true only for ext3.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
I don't know exactly what is on Disc 2, but I do know that you need both discs for a complete install, the second CD is not optional.
An official statement on why ext3 was chosen (ext2 compatibility is a major reason, but not the only one) can be found here.
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I'm still running 6.2 w/ any patches that
concern me.
I don't particularly see any need to upgrade
to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.
What's the big deal?
This is going to be a though choice, Redhat throws 7.2 at the world, Mandrake 8.1 and SuSE released 7.3(however /. does not consider that news)
Personally I prefer SuSE and can't wait for 7.3 however I must say that Redhat 7.2 looks promesing too, however at a first glance, IMHO SuSE looks better for starting linux users.
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
By the way, folks, Nautilus is dead. The fact that they went out of business so quickly ought to tell you something about their product.
Was Eazel trying to sell people copies of Nautilus? I dont think so. They were trying to sell services offered through nautilus, which nobody wanted. They went under because they didn't have a revenue stream, not because Nautilus sucked. Nautilus is not dead, the release of 1.0.5 in the last week shows that, the work has been taken up by the community, and Nautilus seems to be benefitting from that.
1. Go to the official ftp.redhat.com site and get the MD5SUM:
efab549656a1a85ab8fa39eb873eff0e enigma-SRPMS-disc1.iso
70703897af7703b40e41777a3aa186c3 enigma-SRPMS-disc2.iso
cf7bce0c1cdbfedfae29e60aef202f6f enigma-i386-disc1.iso
fd705b3e5d0e37a828db35d21195a9f6 enigma-i386-disc2.iso
2. Go to any available mirror that isn't slashdotted...I found:
ftp://linux.nssl.noaa.gov
It's a pity they still use Bind instead of djbdns [cr.yp.to], which is a lot safer.
If you want us to ship djbdns, convince its author to put it under an Open Source license.
The current license is not acceptable.
I'm also surprised about KDE 2.2, since KDE 2.2.1 has been out for quite a while now
KDE is actually pseudo-2.2.1: We took 2.2, and merged all fixes from the stable CVS branch (and a couple of other patches).
Couldn't update to the official 2.2.1 because of the freeze - but the 2.2-* packages in 7.2 have all the fixes from 2.2.1 up to the day before it was released.
The same goes for the kernel version (2.4.7)
Which is actually 2.4.7 plus a lot of bugfixes from later versions, plus ext3, plus new drivers, and more.
Making sure the kernel is highly stable even under extreme load (and longer uptimes) takes time.
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a 100Mbps mirror in Czech Republic, Europe can be found at ftp.linux.cz.
-Yenya
--
While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
Please provide a testcase. Our tests have shown that (unless you compile in full debugging), ext3 is actually faster than ext2.
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>Secondly, GNOME?[...]
:) Touching four religions in one post. Programming language, distribution, Gnome/KDE, Integration/Small tools. You failed to mention your favourite browser, politics, Star Wars/Star Trek, an audiophile theme of your choice (CD/LP/MP3/Ogg).
:) )
>Who writes a GUI in C, for crying out loud[...]
>I really like how everything in KDE is integrated
>SuSE [...] prefer over Redhat
Expect to be flamed.
Anyway... Choosing a more conservative filesystem as default is not necessary evil. Especially if your targeting a lots of different users.
About writing in C... Well, take the language that suits you most. Personally, I'd rather write larger programs in C++, too (Smaller ones I prefer C). But I don't think it you HAVE to write them in C++, especially if your more proficient in C.
About the integration in KDE, I like it, too.
At least on my desktop. But surely not on my notebook, there I prefer Blackbox or a CLI.
Expect to be proposed(threatened?) to use Windows as integration should be its philosophy in contrast to Unix.
As if using small programs stem from philosophy and not 8k total memory. (Real men program by rewireing, only quiche-eaters need IDEs
To show my point, I'll quickly state that I think the difference between Unix and Windows is the possibilty to use different tools including lightweight programs or Integrated Enviroments matching your taste and/or technical outfit.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
I migrated my / filesystem (only the one Linux filesystem on my laptop - it dual-boots) from ext2 ro ext3. Totally seamless. No time lost with fsck.
I accidentally nobbled the ext3 module (by upgrading the kernel and omitting the initrd that normally loads the ext3 module from linuxrc). Red Hat seamlessly mounted as ext2 - no loss of data (but obviously no journalling). Puttng the initrd back brought me back into the ext3 fold, again seamlessly. It was completely painless -I was really impressed. This experience is with 7.1.93 - I have not yet tried 7.2
In fact, I might not ever try 7.2 because of the really annoying ppp-watcher in 7.1. I had an ISP problem where the chat script would fail to authenticate, and the ppp-watcher just dialled again and again and again... Really annoying, and hard to change. I'm sure I'd miss RH if I stopped using it because I've used it since RH 2.1. For the moment I'm running Red Hat 7.1.93 at home and Debian on my laptop.
[Disclaimer: I don't use Red Hat, I use a certain other distro, for whom I used to work, but...]
;-)
Just cos you don't like Red Hat's choices, doesn't make them bad, remember, Free Software is about choices...
a journaling system tacked on to the old ext2 system
Yes, it is, but that sort of makes it easier to migrate to (and revert from!). I personally use Reiser, but I recognise the benefit of ext3.
any rational reason for choosing GNOME over KDE2
Some people prefer it! I am one of them (and there are a lot of us...) And when RH fund GNOME development, it stands to reason that they'll use it as the default desktop. SuSE fund KDE and lo and behold it's SuSE's default. (and other distros choose one way or the other) You don't have to use the default, make your own choice - you choose KDE2, fine, it's a great desktop just don't moan about GNOME, ok?)
Nautilus is dead
No, Eazel is dead, and Nautilus has gone through at least two revisions since then, and is being ported to GNOME2 - that's the great thing about Free Software - it outlives any company if it's good, and Nautilus is goooood! (I don't use it - not enough memory, but hey, it's all about choice innit?)
type in a URL...fire up the appropriate program
GNOME does this too oddly, oh, and it does have a great browser in Galeon.
So, just because you don't use RH doesn't make it any less news. This is a significant revision (remember, noone uses a RedHat version line until x.2 if they have any sense
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
When Mandrake 8.1 came out many people flamed it for using a custom kernel. RH has done exactly the same thing again, but no flaming. What gives?
Besides, RedHat lets you choose at installation, so you can <sarcasm>"leverage" the mountain of knowledge you have about LILO</sarcasm>. Like there's so much to know...
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
My God, I just finished downloading 5.1, and now they're already up to 7.2? Great. Just great. Next you're going to tell me they've gone past the 2.2.14 kernel...
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Disk 2 contains a few less-used packages, most of the -devel.rpm's, and some server daemons.
All in all, unless you do a extrememe minimal instalation, you will _definatly_ need disk to.
The point i'm trying to make, it is not a 'PowerTools' or 'Addons' disk, it is an intergral part of the instalation!
They have merged the PowerTools into the main instalation set (leaving out not often used, or badly maintained, or conflicting tools). So currently there is no 'Addons' cd's.
.. Unless you get the $199 Redhat 7.2 Pro set, which has (if i remeber correctly) 6 cd's containing quite a few extra apps and daemons.
I understand RedHat cannot integrate ipsec / FreeS/WAN into the Linux distribution because of US export restrictions.
Is there an "official" way to upgrade RH 7.2 to a kernel version with ipsec support (i.e. frees/wan) for European folks? The absence of this feature in RH becomes a more and more serious concern for my company.
Of course we know how to patch and compile a kernel. Maintenance must still be easy, though. Installing a custom kernel on several customer servers also means that we cannot use Redhat's update kernel RPMs but must maintain our own ones, so kernel (and possibly other packages) updates get complicated. It will not possible to respond on security issues as quickly as when using RH kernel RPMs.
It would be a great benefit for European customers if RedHat could at least draw the "official" procedure how to make this RH Linux version ipsec capable and then maintain this procedure as new kernel RPM packages or RedHat Linux versions appear.
I just upgraded my home machine to Mandrake 8.1, which comes with the same general software packages that RedHat ships. While I (of course) haven't tried the new RH yet, I'll make a general observation based on KDE, Gnome and all the other little goodies which ship on a modern Linux distribution: Usability of Linux (on a well-setup machine) is no longer an argument against it's use.
...
Let me explain: when people talk about usabuility, they typically mean "it is (or it isn't) like on Windows" and maybe "it is (or it isn't) like on a Mac". This is not what I would call usability, but rather something like "environment inertia"; people don't like change even if it is for the (long term) better.
After seeing my mom (aged 60+, bought her first computer 1 year ago, never used a computer before that) struggle with Windows when needing to do rather simple/basic things, I've grown convinced that a (well set up) KDE desktop is just as usable as Windows and that the so often touted Windows usability is nothing more than a myth. Windows is usable once you're used to it; otherwise is't as difficult (or easy) than any other decent windowing system (yes, KDE certainly fits this description, GNOME probably does; this is *not* meant as flamebait but just an abservation of the way these Desktops are configured in the newest Mandrake 8.1 release; your milage may vary). These don't work quite the same way as Windows, but it basically do the same things, provides you with menus, with end-user friendly software (KOffice is pretty cool & looks nice, KMail is quite user friendly, etc) and nice GUI configuration tools. If you have a chance sometime, watch someone who's never used a computer try to figure out Windows; it's very instructive to see that Windows itself is not more or less intuitive than any other windowing
system; once you've mastered the concepts and abstractions, it becomes easy. The so called usability advantange of Windows is mostly imprinting, inertia and FUD; the functional differences are starting to disappear or become neglegible.
The biggest obstacle at this point is device/drive support and the need to recompile kernels to get some stuff to work. Usability is (generally speaking) just fine, provided you're working on a well-setup & installed box
Is any of this proprietary, or has RH managed to stay comeletely OS?
With the sole exception of Netscape (which will disappear later), it's 100% OS.
And Netscape will disappear with the next release - we're already including Konqueror, Mozilla and Galeon as free (and better) alternatives right now.
Also, what RH specific changes are in this gcc?
It's a stabilized fork of a CVS version. See http://www.bero.org/gcc296.html for a further explanation.
Why isn't gcc-3.01 being distributed? Does it have major issues?
It's included as a preview package, but it's not ready for a standard compiler.
It breaks binary compatibility with the compiler used in prior 7.x releases (which is something we don't do in minor releases), and its C++ part is quite broken ATM (try running a version of KDE that was compiled with gcc 3.0.1 and you'll see what I mean - it crashes at startup).
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-ext3 maybe will not score the best in a single FileSystems comparison table. But, overall, is a pretty darn good filesystem. It is stable, you can migrate easily, is fast... We are talking about RedHat 7.2, that is, a stable distribution
-Last time that I checked (5 minutes ago) you can choose between Gnome, KDE... as your default desktop environment/graphical login/workstation installation. Even if you choose to select as default graphical environment GNOME, you can select KDE for your use and set it as your default one. Nuff said.
-Who cares about a programming language? If you do not like it, port it to C++. Show me the code.
-You obiously have no idea of Linux. You can run Konqueror form within GNOME!.
-Nautilus is pretty cool. It has a whole bunch of interesting features, like the "tabbed" way of displaying multiple webpages (instead of having multiple separated windows). This is A Good Thing (TM). If you don't like it, don't use it. Linux is about choice.
-RedHat 7.2 comes with KDE 2.2.1.
BTW, you sounded like a Troll.
Enjoy the best RedHat!
Yeah, I konw it's trollish to say you're distro sucks. But from my personal experience Red Hat is pretty good, except for two things. 1) it doesn't have the hardware support 2) it doesn't come with all the nifty packages that I need/want. One thing good can be said for red hat, it is very very easy and stable. To each his own.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
There realy isnt anything specific about 'Supporting XP' in lilo.
Either install XP in a fat32 partition, and use the standard other=/dev/hda2 config, or install it on a NTFS file system, and read the LILO Howto section on chain-loading the NT boot loader from a NTFS system.
There's nothing 'new' about how XP loads its OS.. just the standard NT (4/2000) OS loader, hiden under a prety graphic screen.
i have it dual booting perfectly on my laptop (ext2/fat32) and on my workstation (ext3/ntfs) using LILO.
(have not tried this under GRUB yet, so dont know how that works)
I love postfix, but people wanting to use it on RHL should be aware of this issue with procmail. (And if anyone has a solution, we'd all love to know.)
That's a good question. I still run one machine at home with Win95 first edition plus a shitload of patches (all backed to CD). Friends scoff, but when I ask them what the functional difference is between my install and WinME (aka Win95 5th Edition), they don't generally have a convincing answer.
I have to agree with the "what's the big deal?" sentiment. Is there some reason why we turn every release of every open source OS distro into a big event (or at least a big discussion)?
Honest question: who is this announcement aimed at? The people who are likely to upgrade already know. Those who aren't likely to upgrade don't really care. Casual/non nerd buyers will grab whatever the latest version is off of a shelf.
I can't in all honesty see why this is any more newsworthy than any of the Win95 evolutions. Instead of modding me as a troll, can you consider explaining to my poor addled brain why this announcement will surprise or excite anyone?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Why do people not gzip the iso files before they put them on the ftp sites? It's something I have never understood. Even with a great deal of the content already compressed, I have got a typical saving of ~10-15% on various distro install disks. Saving 80 odd megabytes of download per disk, per user is a lot. And how hard is it to type "zcat blah.iso | cdrecord" when you have it?
Never mind that anyway - don't download it, buy it from Redhat instead. But does anyone else wish RH would sell cheap disk sets like mdk do? I bet it would only improve their profits. They would be bought mostly by ppl who currently download the isos (like me), not the ppl who currently buy the boxed sets ('cos they all want manuals etc otherwise they would download also)
MartinG.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
The "gcc/RH7.0 Fiasco" was actually a Kernel problem, as Linus himself pointed out.
Sorry I cannot find now the URL. But this was explained at the local LUG on a Kernel Talk. And I come to respect those folks. They usually know what they are talking about.
So there it goes another piece of FUD against the Linux comunity...
Does someone has the link to Linus interview about this?
or you could have put a windows boot disk in and typed.....format /mbr
;-)
then, no more grub
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Will Redhat 7.2 support reiserfs?
Support is compiled into the kernel and the required userland tools are included.
It's not supported by the installer (but existing reiserfs partitions will be mounted) because the kernel team says it's still not 100% ready.
It will be very hard to devfs and reiserfs to succeed if RH makes it difficult
There are currently a number of known security problems with devfs, so making that easy is not a good idea just yet.
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Or edit boot.ini and just use the nt boot loader
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Please provide a testcase. Our tests have shown that (unless you compile in full debugging), ext3 is actually faster than ext2.
You know, while you're thinking about FS and all, I want to know why ReiserFS debugging was turned on in 7.1 and all the sample kernel configs.
It made reiserfs incredibly slow unless one recompiled the kernel, and did something other than make oldconfig. Was this deliberate to make reiserfs look bad or what?
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
That's a very good question, AC. Since there really is no distribution that fits your criteria, I've decided to create a new distribution, which will be called "l33t L1|\|ux", of course, although its internal codename will be "Poser Linux" because that's easier to spell and means the same thing.
I plan to replace all messages in the source code with their l33t_5p34k equivalents, for starters. It'll have an Enlightenment desktop, with a Matrix theme, of course - gotta stick to stuff that everyone recognizes as cool, even your parents, otherwise someone might not realize that you're cool. Best of all, this distribution is going to be 100% free - I'll even fedex you the CDs 2-day, for free! I figure the daemon I install to email me your parent's credit card numbers when you buy something online will more than make up for any distribution costs!
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I upgraded my mom from Windows NT4 to RH7.1, and after the usual "why does it look different" she seems quite happy about being able to doubleclick everything in her mail inbox... and how many 62 year old women that invite to coffee talk with the neighbors tell about upgrading to Red Hat 7.2? Mine does!!!
RH 7.2 solves a real issue - sometimes (once a month) her harddisk stops working. A hardware error. ext3 makes it possible to start up again without runnin fsck manually. ext3 is the biggest stability improvement for the average end-user.
Lars.
I don't particularly see any need to upgrade to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.
What's the big deal?
I've used every version of RedHat since 3.3, and several versions of Mandrake over the last 6 years. That's a lot of upgrading, particularly since I have several servers and workstations running Linux. My firewall/proxy/router is still running a heavily upgraded version of RH 6.1, and my mail server is running a butchered version of RH 6.0. My internal web server and all of the workstations are running RH 7.1, and I'll be upgrading some of those to RH 7.2 in the near future, as it stabilizes.
Here's a short list of my reasons to upgrade to RH 7.X:
Ultimately with Red Hat, they've done a good job of supporting older X.2 releases, but support doesn't mean adding new features. If you want the new features, you'll want to upgrade. If you don't want/need them, then stick with what works. At least Red Hat (and most Linux distros) give you that choice -- as opposed to certain eXtra Proprietary systems.
We call it art because we have names for the things we understand.
This has been patched. Nothing to see here folks move along.
Get a free ipod.
yeah I relaized that after I typed it...I hate that stupid 2 minute thing, you get tired of waiting ad say F- it
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
It's a good idea, but you get continual updates. If you run stable, you can update to cvs daily if you feel the need . . . however, if you're builidng from source (doesn't everyone?
hawk
GNU GRUB ranting involving RMS
As soon as I heard that GRUB was a GNU project, I assumed it was just to help RMS' ego. I can just imagine RMS winding up the pitch: "The Linux kernel can't even boot without the help of GNU Free Software to pave the way! That's one more reason to call it GNU/Linux."
And [OT] while we're on the topic of massaging or dismissing RMS' ego, can Red Hat please please please stop publishing useless man pages that are just placeholder advertisements for info pages? I just don't see the point. A simple perl script should be sufficient for backporting info format into man format. If you like info, fine, it has a couple more features for indexing. But not everyone likes having to use info when man works just as well.
I don't care one way or another, I will call a whole distribution Linux if I want. I bought "Red Hat Linux 7.2" not Linux, not GNU/Linux, not GNU/Linux/RPM/Perl/Apache/KDE/Mozilla/StarOffice/L oki.
[
I want to know why ReiserFS debugging was turned on in 7.1
Because our tests have shown the version of ReiserFS in the 7.1 kernel to produce filesystem corruption under some circumstances.
Avoiding that (or at least giving us a chance to debug it) was more important than getting it to full speed.
We haven't seen fs corruption in the 7.2 kernel, so it's turned off now.
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I just installed Debian's testing distribution (Woody) this weekend, and I'm quite happy with that, so I won't be trying Red Hat 7.2, otherwise I would be downloading it tonight!
Since the test shows ext3 with writeback being slower than normal ext3 in some of the tests, I suspect something in the test went wrong.
Also, it wasn't using the current version of ext3.
That said, there are cases where ext3 is slower (obviously, since it has to take care of the journal data), but due to the better data ordering, it's faster in other cases.
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It's not, because 7.2 went gold before the 2 bugs were discovered. Updated packages are available already though.
OK, cool, just wondering. One other thing I was wondering is that Namesys recommends a 2.4.10pre kernel or later to safely use reiserfs... does the 2.4.9 with 7.1 or the 2.4.7 with 7.2 have the necessary patches to run reiser safely without going to a Linus kernel?
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Isn't that what I said?
We now have RedHat 7.2 up and running in the Compaq Test Drive Program, so you can try it on our systems before you put it on yours. It's running on a couple of dual-processor x86 systems, and using the ext3 file system. Sign up for a free account and give it a try.
I honestly don't think it is possible to make a really good system-wide GUI for people that use their computers a lot. The nature of a GUI puts a ceiling on how efficiently you can use the computer but it does make it easier to reach a working level.
Put it this way: imagine that in 100 years time there still are computers. Do you think they'll be used via GUI's? I think they'll be used via talking to them in English - much closer to the CLI than the GUI.
GUI's are a stop-gap to give normal people at least a crude way of using their machines while waiting for the proper interface to be developed. They are doomed to become as much a part of history as the slide-rule and all the nice books about GUI design theory will one day be as quaint as my "How to Use a Slide-Rule" book by Burns Snodgrass (that's really his name!). The CLI will go the same way too but much more of its philosophy will be applicable to the next generation.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I'm using it on one of my partitions, and haven't seen any problems (neither with 2.4.7-whatever nor 2.4.9-7).
Our kernel team thinks using 2.4.10 is a pretty bad idea because of some problems with the VM changes. (This may or may not be fixed in 2.4.12 and later, haven't had the time to look into it), so if you plan to update to 2.4.10pre or later, update with caution.
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Nothing. Relax and go about your business. Your license to use the software will not expire. Ever.
No, really. We don't do that kind of thing here. In fact, you can still get and use Red Hat 2! Or even, if you can find it, SLS. Instead of requiring you to buy every new release, tested before shipping or not, the Free Software community, which includes Red Hat, had the vision to make sure you can continue to use whatever software you feel is best for as long as you want to use it.
Imagine that. You get what you paid for.
Does "format /mbr" actually work or did you mean "fdisk /mbr"?
That said, if djbdns ever ships as the default name server, I will stop using Red Hat. Not because I don't know how to replace it with BIND, but on the basis of "if they'll include THAT, I can't trust anything else they included, and I don't have time to sift through it all and replace the trash." BIND works. BIND 9 works well and has a much better security record than previous versions. Besides, (evil grin) when BIND holes are found, the BIND team acks and patches them, and you better believe the whole world will know about them.
What if you have an older machine that is limited to 64M?
Then don't upgrade. If you want new features, you need the hardware to support them.
Our tests have shown that (unless you compile in full debugging), ext3 is actually faster than ext2.
That's not entirely accurate... it's faster in some situations (add a separate nvram journal to increase the speed significantly), not in others. Ext3 is better at scheduling I/O, but there is also an overhead (CPU, writes) with journaling. If all you want to do is copy a gigabyte of data to the disk as fast as possible, it will be slower. If there are many consecutive small writes, the advantages start showing.
Go, GRUB, go!
Carousel is a lie!
I always liked Mandrake for their attention to the applications. A Mandrake ditro truly comes as a fully feaured desktop without having to search for anything else.
... I love kde.. and thats why I tried M8.1 ... this time tho, I'm buying redhat cds because I think Mandrake really screwed up their 8.1 distro release. Note: bero-rh explained that the KDE2.2 R7.2 ships with is in fact 2.2.1.
That said, 8.1 is proving flaky to me. The initscript patch helps a bit... but X still starts acting like it has multiple personalities after a couple of hours or so. The broken supermount is also very annoying-- although I'm not sure if redhat has an equivalent. A modern OS should be able to safely auto-mount/unmount removable media imho.
Anyways..what I really wanted from a distro was a solid install of kde2.2.1
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
Let me explain: when people talk about usabuility, they typically mean ... maybe "it is (or it isn't) like on a Mac". This is not what I would call usability, but rather something like "environment inertia"
The Mac interface has one big improvement over MS Windows and most X toolkits: the menubar is a fixed target against a side of the screen. When aiming for a menu, it saves about half a second per menu access if you can just shoot your mouse against the north wall of the screen instead of having to aim in both x and y dimensions. This adds up significantly over the course of a day. However, Windows currently leads the pack in keyboard accessibility.
The so called usability advantange of Windows is mostly imprinting, inertia and FUD
Windows has the usability advantage of the user not having to work overtime at her job to buy extra hardware to replace the cheap winmodem, winprinter, winsoundcard, and other winsh*t that came with her box, and that's about it. It also may have a few mission-critical legacy apps that don't work under Wine, even when Wine can run many apps faster than Windows itself can.
Usability is (generally speaking) just fine, provided you're working on a well-setup & installed box
The Microsoft bootloader license prohibits the major computer makers (gateway, dell, etc.) from offering such a box.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Mandrake has made some great steps in the right direction. No login required -- fantastic! No root password required -- even better! She's using Gnome -- I can't disable that incredibly-annoying single-click thing that KDE has going on with 2.X, unfortunately. (KDE is definitely easier for new Linux users than any other WM.) The installer is really nice, something that she could have used herself, I'm sure. The control panel that comes with it lets her change her own monitor settings, something that I didn't even know existed in any Linux distribution. The games that come with it are fantastic, notably Ambrosia's contributions. Tux Racer, mysteriously, has simply not functioned on any of the 3 nice new systems that I've tried it on.
But there's still enough problems that she's not going to adopt it as a serious OS.
This is all that we've come across so far, though I'm afraid that we won't see her using it enough to find any more. Until native Word-file (all formats!) handling exists, the fonts are made readable, and applications use some WM hooks to handle dialog boxes as neatly as the WMs handle mounted file systems, she's likely doomed to be a games-only user. Which is a lot better than nothing!
-Waldo
I just upgraded my old RH6.2 system to a reasonably modern setup with:
gcc -v => gcc version 2.95.3 20010315
should this cause any problems if I rpm -e off the existing gcc set and put the latest 2.95.3 on?
fwiw, I took an old redhat 6.2, added the latest modutils, kernel, gcc, binutils and left it at that. I didn't like the gcc that came with rh7.1 (obvious controversy) and while I'd love to try rh7.2, I'm still not in love with your choice of gcc's...
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
But what happens if we take the roswell pakages for KDE, available from kde.org ?
That will work - they've actually been built on enigma.
Is there any update for 2.2.1 planned (i guess there is..) and when will it be out ?
No. There's no point in releasing an update that doesn't do much beyond changing the version number.
I'm planning to release an update to 2.2.2 once it's released though (shortly after November 12).
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kernel-headers-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-doc-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-source-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-BOOT-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
nscd-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-common-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-devel-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-profile-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
openssh-askpass-gnome-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-askpass-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-clients-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-server-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
squid-2.4.STABLE1-6.i386.rpm
mew-1.94.2-12.i386.rpm
util-linux-2.11f-12.i386.rpm
-- You can be a geeklord too
That shouldn't cause problems.
/usr/share/config/kdm is a symlink, you can go ahead. If it's a directory, uninstall kdebase and install the new version before doing anything else.
Depending on when you grabbed kdebase, you might have to remove the package first.
If
Not officially supported though.
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Had that problem on another machine after killing the linux partition.
So I guess you can call it user error, that when I remove an operating system I don't like, my machine stops responding. However, if MS did that, then everybody would jump all over them as the supreme evil. I've killed a Windows 2000 partition before and their bootloader still worked, and would allow me to boot the Win98 partition.
I should have made the subject something better like "Linux bootloaders suck!".
That will work, unless you've done odd stuff like
building your own gcc3 rpm that obsoletes the
normal gcc 2.96-RH libstdc++.
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Fucking idiot moderators! I'm sure the flamebait mod was based solely on the subject without reading the message.
/. account as punishment. Perhaps I deserve to be put on the FBI top 10 list with bin Laden too. Maybe I should register with my local police department as a linux offender.
The article discussed changes in RH7.2 such as moving from LILO to GRUB and I happen to mention my personal experience with it.
I'm sorry oh holy Linux god person. How dare I say part of linux sucks. Please delete my
Forget my hot date (hah!) I'm going to be burning ISOs tonight! This is way cool, I had no idea that 7.2 was in the works!! I hope to have this working at home and at work by tomorrow afternoon!
f you're upgrading from the previous Red Hat 7.1 and you're using Ximian GNOME, then you might want to erase all Ximian GNOME RPMS
Hrrrm
does redcarpet piss anyone else as much as it pisses me? Getting evolution to work is waaaay harder than it needed to be
Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 7.2 has been released. Please don't follow the instructions in the article for removing Ximian GNOME, as that will break your rpm dependency tree pretty badly.
The recommended procedure for upgrading to Red Hat Linux 7.2 with Ximian GNOME is to perform the Red Hat upgrade, then immediately reinstall Ximian GNOME.
lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ |sh
The mirrors will pick it up shortly.
Share and enjoy,
The Ximian release team
This is somewhat unfortunate for several of my scientist clients, some of whom prefer the Alpha's superior floating-point capabilities for their workstations. They aren't about to run out and drop $12,000 on an Itanium development box from Dell.
Of course, if Red Hat's actually dropped the Alpha, maybe I can get those users onto Debian ....
I administrate several Linux servers in diverse environments. We have tried Reiserfs on one of our dev servers and discovered that it did not completely meet our needs because some of the features I wanted to use were simply not availabe. I am referring to the file attributes of append only and immutable which will slow down an attacker's progress in tampering with log files.
Also, in SuSE 7.0 we experienced some corruption which would result in the OS being unable to locate an executable file when executing it but being able to locate it otherwise (i.e. to copy it). This problem was fixed in SuSE 7.1, but the lack of attributes is troubling.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
It's actually broken. The bug has been present and known since gcc 3.0, and
hasn't been fixed in 3.0.1 or post-3.0.1 stable-branch CVS (at least as of 3 weeks ago).
gcc 3.0.1 miscompiles C++ applications/libraries that use multiple inheritance,
which KDE does in a couple of places.
Chances are we'll fix this and go 3.x for 8.0 (or whatever
the next major release will be called).
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I've had problems with Grub in the past. I hope those are behind us, but on a Gateway E-4200 the computer stopped working after a Grub install. To be fair, it was Mandrake 8.0, so more than just Grub had changed.
/mbr (dos fdisk)
... I keep hoping that I'll get one that takes. [Until then I'm stuck on just Windows at work.])
The "fix" turned out to be:1) fdisk
2) remove the SCSI card, reboot, reset EPROM, reinset the SCSI card, reboot to Windows
3) reinstall Mandrake 7.1 with LILO
4) (edit the lilo.conf file to change the parameters...this was a check box on the installer, but the installer guessed it wrong, and so did I)
It also worked with Red Hat 7.1 without problems. (This seems to be a bad disk, which is why I kept doing re-installs on it. I may yet do another
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Just to re-emphasize, Hemos's instructions for 'cleaning' Ximian will seriously break your system- it'll remove glib (among other things) which will remove a large number of RH's system tools. So... don't.
Luis Villa [Ximian Bugmaster, who doesn't want to have to deal with 'Hemos broke my system' bugs all day]
IAAL,BIANLY
Bad Ass Linux, I like it! You're a wealth of marketing ideas, thank you! You've inspired me - I've already also come up with Trenchcoat Linux, Mothafscking Linux, and finally, my pride and joy:
Osama bin Linux!
Ironically, there are MANY parts of silicon valley wherein good broadband is also not available. DSL is not available in practically all of Sunnyvale, nor in many parts of West and South San Jose. Cable, well, between the lack of choice in ISPs and the horrible TOS, it's not worth it even if it were free.
That's not a valid excuse anymore :) see this note from Ximian. If someone could please mod that up so that maybe Hemos will correct his thoroughly damaging instructions on the top of the page that would be much appreciated.
Luis Villa [Ximian Bugmaster]
IAAL,BIANLY
Sorry, but I'm running an old patched system and wonder how much pain upgrading will bring me. Can someone tell me if the default 7.2 install supports...
The HighPoint ATA-66 controler (366?) on Abit BP-6 motherboards?
Viper 770 with all the little libraries that make it faster and/or work with VMware?
VMware 1.0?
SB Live?
lmsensors?
ipchains based firewall and forwarding/routing/masquerading script?
Also, how does the upgrade process work for user installed programs? In particular, I have things like postfix and dnscache installed. Is there a way I can tell the upgrader not to mess up those packages?
Thanks,
astro
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
" RedHat seems to have broken the addage "Only use the even numbers" with 7.0"
You seem to be making the common and understandable mistake of confusing distribution versions with kernel versions. Even numbered *kernel* versions are stable (second number only. e.g. 2.2.4 and 2.2.5 are *both* stable kernel releases.) Mandrake 8.1 is more stable than 8.0. This does not violate the rule, as the version is a distribution version, not a kernel version.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
X.0: should be avoided. Keep running your X-1 release.
X.1: good. This is what you upgrade from your X-1 release to.
X.2: good.
They've been this way since 5.0. I don't recall if they followed this pattern with the 4.x releases.
Yes, and everyone knows that the kernel local root exploits will rip holes in your box big enough to drive a truck through, almost exactly the same type of problem that makes IIS vulnerable to CodeRed et.al. worms.
(NOTE: extreme sarcasm, I'm getting reeeeeelly tired of ETITKU (every twit in the known universe) comparing these local root exploits to IIS. It is way harder to utilize these exploits. Even if running sshd w/ password authentication, you still have to break a password prior to gaining entry, much more detectable and preventable than injecting a nifty little root exploit via a GET a'la CodeRed)
cat
No, because it's actually a reproducable bug that has even been acknowledged as a bug by the gcc developers. gcc 3.0.x has a problem with multiple inheritance; and I'm sure it'll be fixed in 3.0.2 or 3.0.3.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the ABI changes, or kdeinit being a hack.
2.96-RH broke some code too, but you certainly weren't blaming it on your compiler then
There's a difference between outputting a broken binary from valid code and refusing to compile bad code.
The initial version of 2.96 was somewhat broken, and so is 3.0.1, unless you don't use C++.
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Most banks in Europe still use Java stuff for online banking - that's the #1 reason to keep Netscape 4.x in at this time.
I know Mozilla and Konqueror can do Java - but only if a JDK is installed, and right now, the JDKs are under even weirder licenses than Netscape 4.x, so we're staying with the lesser evil.
gcj/gij may take care of this in the future.
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Yes, as gcc 2.95.x (like 2.96RH, egcs 1.1.2, gcc 2.8, gcc 3) aren't compatible with anything but themselves you will break binary compatiblity for C++. Also, 2.95.x is nowhere near as good as 2.96RH. Downgrading the compiler is definitely not recommended.
Just did an apt-cache show on grub in unstable - looks like it's at 0.90-11
Excuse me, I personally get really sick and tired of the elitist shit that takes place here. It's not "News for Nerds, Linux is all that matters."
I just noticed the 'Standard' version (e.g. the 'cheap version') isn't offered with the 7.2 release? That means teh $60 version is now the cheapest one. And why, exactly, do I need to pay for the Loki games CD? Also note - the level of support of the new $60 version is the same as the old cheap version used to be. Ugh.
My guess would be that the idea is that when you upgrade a system, you don't get ext3, that only happens on a new install. So the theory would be that the damage it can do to an existing box is automatically contained.
The reason I bring this up, is that if there's one real problem with RedHat, it's that they feel the need to rush new features out without a lot of testing. That's why a lot of us stay away from the *.0 releases (and after 6.1, I resolved to stay away from *.1s). I can easily believe that ext3 is a cool file system, and I can also easily believe that they checked this one out throughly before risking the reputation of their *.2 releases, but as a general principle, this one makes me nervous.
If I get burned by a *.2 release, I'm not going to wait for them to invent the *.3...
GRUB co-exists just fine with XP. I recently installed XP, then converted my fat32 partition to NTFS (it doesn't do it automatically). Through it all, GRUB continued to work just fine. Actually, I was somewhat surprised that WinXP didn't try to overwrite it with a bootloader of its own.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
I just did. If you want these guys to stick around I'd suggest you do the same. Even if you just going to download it anyway. How much time do you spend logged into your RH system? How would you feel if you were forced to use Windows? These guys have contributed a lot to Linux. Alan Cox, David S. Miller, many gcc developers, and countless others are leaders in the Open Source community and deserve to get paid. What would you spend sporting dinner at a resturant? Fifty bucks?
Support RH and buy it now.
I just did.
Mike
We have tried Reiserfs on one of our dev servers and discovered that it did not completely meet our needs because some of the features I wanted to use were simply not availabe. I am referring to the file attributes of append only and immutable which will slow down an attacker's progress in tampering with log files.
Immutable? Bah. Everyone knows `chattr +i ' makes that file invincible ; )
Grub uses a different syntax when referring to hard drives, taken from a BSD IIRC. Hence its annoying to remember a new (yes simple, but different) set of device names thats only used by one program on the system.
Try telling newbies having bootloader problems why this is the case. `Because nobody could be bothered' will not come off looking good for Linux.
It fix it myself, but I can't do much with C beyond reading it.
If anyone has such skills, a request: please make Linux device syntax an option in Grub. Thanks.
Thank you for proving my point.
That doesn't mean that FreeSWAN is easy to install - until the next version (Real Soon Now, probably within the month, which is supposed to do RPMs) you start off by doing a clean compile of your kernel, installing the FreeSWAN code, and compiling your kernel again, then configuring the actual config files. But the process is independent of the RedHat organization or anybody else developing code in the US, so they'll stay free. I've heard that Mandrake 8.1 comes with it installed, but I haven't tried it yet.
On the other hand, there's also PGPnet IPSEC for Windows, and IPSEC releases like Kame for some of the BSDs.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
what in the world am I missing? What's available for linux and not bsd?
hawk
Or, maybe you type in that url in a web browser and see that it's just a little shell script. No binary only program that may have hidden nasties. You can see exactly what it's doing.
Can you setup and configure LVM and install to LVM partitions from the installer?
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
On 6.2 this is in /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf I beleive.
>Isn't this against RMS's GNU/Everything treatise? He claims that the OS is Linux, but
>the distribution should be GNU/Linux. Here the OS itself is called GNU/Linux...
>Humm...
Not quite right. The Kernel is Linux, the OS is GNU/Linux and the distro is whatever the distro people call it (sid, for Debian, for example).
dave
ps: lameness filter? Just for having *THREE* quote characters at the top there?
Huh? According to Redhat's site it's $990 for 10 machines for a year! And I suspect you can get even bigger discounts if you're going to register 50 machines.
After upgrading from 7.1, I couldn't log in as my main 'micah' account or as root. Obviously that's not good. I *could* log in as my dad however.
Fortunately I could get in with 'linux single'. I tried changing the passwords, putting in the same ones that were there. Still couldn't log in.
Noted that the passwords were not shadowed. (I'm not 100% sure, but I sure think they were shadowed before the upgrade.) pwconv fixed that quick.
Then I tried changing my passwords to something DIFFERENT. Voila, I could then log in as root and micah!
What the heck!?!
Question: does Grub understand an XFS filesystem mounted on an LVM volume?
Not that Lilo does, mind you - my boot volumes are ext2 on a physical partition, but it would be nice to avoid that.
Also, will RH7.2 support setting up an LVM system? Root on LVM?
I feel that LVM is a very important advance for Linux - the ability to bolt a new hard disk in, and automatically extend the free space on your main volume is a leap ahead of Windows Xtremely Painful.
www.eFax.com are spammers
You actually tried to fix it? You're more patient than I am :)
I completely agree with your analysis on the attitude of the average Linux zealot though. Usually I try to avoid responding with flames of my own but sometimes I'm just pissed off about enough things that I have to tell the zealots how I feel. Usually I just chalk up the AC repsonse and bad mods to those of 15 year olds that got into Linux because of peer pressure.
But my honest opinion still stands. It's just a bootloader, it should work unless the few sectors is resides in are physically damaged or corrupted.
Ha ha ha, you people are idiots! I'm talking about a fucking bootloader FAILING because a former partition is no longer there. Whether or not the partition is there is irrelevant. The bootloader provides an interface to choose a partition to boot from. In other words, you have to choose a partition and THEN it goes to that pertition. It shouldn't be reading that partition before it loads. What part of this do you people not understand!
"basic70" wrote:
t's a pity they still use Bind instead of djbdns [cr.yp.to], which is a lot safer.
I believe you misspelled "It's commendable that they finally migrated from the hopelessly buggy BIND 8.x series to the rewriten-from-scratch BIND 9.x one -- and perfectly understandable that they shunned djbdns and other proprietary Bernstein packages. It's just a shame they're still defaulting to wu-ftpd rather than, say, vs-ftpd."
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Is any of this proprietary, or has RH managed to stay comeletely OS?
Red Hat has never been completely open source, but has been a leader in attempting to move in that direction, while still providing the functionality people want. For example, I believe Red Hat actually commissioned the creation of a graphics-manipulation utility good enough that they could drop the excellent "shareware" proprietary package xv without too much pain.
I see, at a brief glance, the following proprietary packages in 7.2's core two-CD set:
And that's it, I think. (I believe some of the boxed sets have proprietary supersets of the base set, e.g., adding Star Office 5.2.)
It would be a bit painful for some of Red Hat's customer base to drop either of those packages, at this point: Although one could substitute nano for pico, there's nothing but pine to make dedicated pine-lovers happy. And, although Mozilla is getting awfully good, in a few areas such as (ew!) Java support, it's not quite up with Navigator/Commuicator.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
It'll probably be in 8.0 - the initial release of
2.96 was quite buggy (at least as much so as 3.0.1),
and our compiler people managed to stabilize it in
less than a minor release cycle.
They'll do the same thing to 3.0.x.
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