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Sharp Readies SL-5000D
Anders writes "infoSync has a story and pictures of Sharps new Linux-device SL-5000D, which runs on Embedix Linux 2.4 with Jeode's PersonalJava, using Qt/Embedded and the Qt Palmtop Environment, and will be capable of running applications coded either in Linux or in Java."
I was under the impression that Linux was an OS, not a programming language ;-)
I see that Sharp are also blocking Netscape 6 and Mozilla, just like MSN did.
It would make a very cool MP3 player, it has a type II compact flash so you can put ye old IBM microdrive in it.
Would be somewhat more interesting with some sorta wireless capacity. I guess that the modems for Pocket PC should work OK (with possible driver tweakage)
Might well cut into the palm user base quite quickly
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I'm no expert in Java or anything, but can a similar spec device to the Compaq iPaq expect to run faster using Java than Windows CE?
Has anyone got any such benchmarks?
From my experience with Java (or perhaps, _bad_ java coders), it's slower than native Windows coding.
"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..."
Check your dept.
From the article:
"Sharp's efforts to put a Linux handheld on the market has been known for quite a while, and now they're readying actual devices - but they're only for developers yet."
You can register to become a developer on their website, but it's still a PitA.
And there was no mention of how much these things will cost. Anyone know?
Knunov
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
PersonalJava is old hat and is a variant of the old 1.1 version of the language. The new J2ME platform has various profiles aimed at amoung other things PDAs and Mobiles, which is where the market will be at.
From a Java perspective this isn't very interesting and isn't very cool. Hopefully they will be able to upgrade the libraries to support J2ME when the PDA profile is released. Then it will be an interesting device.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Well, the screen is those photos is clearly the usual photoshopped image, but the device still looks extremely sexy. Keyboard, CF slot... mm.
Mind you, my Palm is still all I need (IIIxe forever! whoo! etc!), but I can respect the extreme coolness of this device. Looks vaguely like one of the tricorders on Enterprise....
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Hey this sounds great it even has POP3/SMTP mail support .... but will it run POP3 and SMTP servers? Better yet can I run Apache with PHP support?
Woohoo a server in my pocket!!
...and dare I say "Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of these?" :0P
Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
Yes Lunix in my hand! now I can f-prot the tarball on the go!
calm down, they're just having the growing pains that tons of websites out there are having. the "DHTML" stuff that netscape 4.x supported was not standardized. there is a standard way to do that (thats different) that is in the mozilla engine.
I especially love it's "Thumb Board" keyboard. You don't see it unless you need it, real nice. More PDA maker's should think of this idea. I may get one simply because it would be a lot more useful then my IPAQ. Having an actual keyboard to type on is nice, even if its not full size you can still type on it faster then a virtual keyboard. Good job Sharp!
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
yeah, it looks fine.
i wonder, can it run gcc? coded in linux must mean apps written for linux, so i hope. imagine writing that new app of yours on the subway!
even if it does not, i wonder if some crazy dude will happen to create a c-scripting language in java!!
I'm a happy Palm user, but I'd like to switch to a Linux-based PDA once a standard emerges. Now there are too many platforms (QT-embedded, plain X, the one from AgendaVR3, the one from Yopy, ...).
For me it seems risky to buy one nowadays. I'm going to wait 6-8 months more.
What do you think about the standards? Which one do you think is going to be the "winner"?
greetings,
lekter
http://www.hispacluster.org
Microsoft will be watching the success of this one like a hawk, since their ill-fated WinCE experiment proved windows lack of scalability in the embedded market.
This could be the first of a lon long line of Linux powered handhelds. Roll on world domination !! :-)
You may get this PDA just because of the Thumb Board? That's interesting.
I use a Sharp Wizard at the moment, and that has a near full-size keyboard. I'd say I can manage 30wpm on it (it's slightly smaller, and the keys don't have a particularly good feel to them) vs say 60-70 on a regular keyboard.
The Thumb Board would probably get 10wpm if you're lucky. I agree that it's a great thing to have, e.g. asking people to key in their phone numbers / email addresses.
Otherwise, I personally would like faster throughput. I would assume that handwriting recognition would be the primary input mechanism for PDAs like these. What do you think's wrong with that? (This isn't a rhetorical question. You've actually made me curious.)
I believe the Thumb Board isn't in any way designed to be a complete input device, as it were. For starters I would:
- make the delete key at least as big as the space
- add arrow keys
Like you, I really like the concept of the thumb board. It's just raised some questions about what's so wrong with the PDAs that don't have them.
--It's not rocket science, just computer science.
Linux PDAs won't take over the consumer market from Palm, but they are good platforms for vertical and custom software (medical, scientific, legal, etc.). But people who write that kind of software already have languages, environments, and toolkits for their domains, and those languages and toolkits are usually not Java, C++, or Qt. X11 would allow applications created in different environments to co-exist, but Qt/Embedded forces everybody to use Qt.
I hope Sharp will put X11 on the device. They can keep their Qt applications by switching to Qt/X11 for their applications. If they don't base the UI on X11, I think they are going to miss their target market.
(In case you want to bring up the "performance" argument for using an "embedded toolkit", a 200MHz ARM is the equivalent of a desktop machine from a few years ago, machines that ran X11 with no problems. X11 was actually developed on and for machines less powerful than today's low-end Palms.)
and watch as people start talking about Linux that would never have before.
Use that Microsoft tactic of sneaking the OS into peoples homes and hearts. Lets face it, most people still think Linux is an Ugly, cobbled together OS that is difficult to install and use. (if they really know what it is at all). I think it would be fun when they start seeing Handheld applications that are as stable as any Palm app but far more powerful and able.
Microsoft has made no new freinds with XP. Even sheep know when they are being lined up for slaughter and the backlash against it's "directed marketing" is starting to get mainstream press.
this would be a perfect time to show off slick Linux apps to the masses. make them love the little bastard and watch that spread the gospel to the desktops (perhaps). At least introduce modern Linux to them.
I, like a lot of us will probably just get an iPac and plop Linux on that. But your your dad spend $500 on a shiney new gadget and hack the OS? would his friends?
I have it installed in my iPaq for more than a month now. It has several bugs...
One of them in the multimedia player: after playing anything (mp3, mpeg, etc.) it hangs, and you have to fire a terminal to kill the player if you want the audio device free.
In the calendar you can't enter a repeating event with a fixed end date. it will be included in the database but wont show on the display,
At least once a week I have to reset the unit because Qt hangs
and last bu not least, the power saving doesnt work. it doesnt shut off the back light or the LCD after some inactive time.
Gotta check if these things were corrected...
What ? Me, worry ?
I couldn't imagine it costing less than $500. That's probably going to be the main problem as a Palm competitor. This is a gorgeous piece, and I plan to get one myself, but how many people are willing to shell this kind of money out to say they're running linux on their PDA?
--------------
David O.
Maybe its just me, but the number of Linux based handhelds seems to be pushing towarsd linux, i think it has something to do with the cost ;)
but whats the cost of something like QT embedded?
expensive stuff for your handheld? or really cheap?
BTW did anyone else pick up opera in the screenshot?
if theyve got opera, its save to assume this thing can browse the web.
*patiently waiting to sell his karma to purcahse one :P*
Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
Java is an operating system, too...
/. :P
In either case, edit posts,
Want Linux games? HERE.
In delving the depths of strictly shallow observation, does anyone else think this looks like an ipaq? Personally, I would like an ipaq b/c it just looks good - although they are a bit pricey. So Sharp - if they can get the "looks" of an ipaq for 1/2 of the cost ... hmmm ... Sharp ...
Keyboard without "|" - keyboard without future!
:-//
In wrong place - it's even worse
This device was shown many many months ago at an Amiga show, and since then it has tons of Amiga software ready to go for it from Quake to mp3 encoders to games and web browsers.
I want one now!
If I could I'd buy one tomorrow, The only thing they're missing is the ability to hook an ethernet connector to it.
With one of them it would be an invaluble network / help desk tool on my network.
If it runs JAVA then I can use notesbuddy (Have a look around IBM Alphaworks) to get my e-mail!! WooHoo! Lotus Notes on a PDA yayayay!
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
On a related note, has anyonce recieved thier pda from Empower Technologies? It has been almost 2 months since I placed my order and I am starting to wonder about them.
It feels nice. Its a thinner and lighter than the ipaq with CF jacket which is a good thing. The display quality was nice. They input methods were interesting (eg full unicode popups) but I found I hated all of them. CF and a memory card slot are built in to the base thin unit. There is no PCMCIA provision at all.
It had no full screen handwriting mode like familiar on the iPAQ. The pop out thumbpad is cute but almost unusable - even for me an ex sinclair computer user and PC110 owner.
The apps were good, but appear to be proprietary, The guy present wasnt sure how many binary only driver modules it used and I've not seen much sign of hardware docs.
It seemed very much "nice PDA that happened to have Linux hiding at the bottom" than "Linux on a PDA".
Does anyone know if this device has flashable ROM? I own a CasioE100, I bought it the moment it became available (it was the feature leader BY FAR at its time, and the Casio Exx series still holds strong (including the hardware on my E100)).
The reason i ask is this, without a flashable ROM, will i be left behind AGAIN(!). You see, ive got this E100 that all the CE developers have 'moved on from' - if they burn JavaPersonalEdition into the Sharp unit, and i am incapable of removing it for a J2ME upgrade later? Will I be able to completely remove Opera5 for Opera5+x? I would hate to get stuck w/ QT Embedded VXX(?) and get screwed when everyone moves up to QTE VXX+Y.
Really, I am not just a little miffed about the 'applicance' like state of the PDA world - the PDA universe needs someone who will ship a PDA in a more generic sense, with WinCE as an 'option' and drivers for all the hardware for WinCE, QT Palmtop, QNX and Linux.
Instead of stearing PDAs like the handheld version of Apple hardware, Id like to see a little more of a "open IBM clone" style hardware... but i digress.
So, what is the chance that I might be able to consider this device, IE: only if I can re-flash it to be the 'latest' and 'greatest' software available in future... i cant stand to think ill end up with anther $600CDN PDA that I cannot shove software into because it was sold as a glorified calculator...with a permanent OS/APP/ROM image.
I held out for a Kyocera 6035.
Any new gadget without wireless and cel phone capability seems a regression.
When there is one of reasonable size that chews up and spits out the asinine array of world-wide cel phone standards, you can expect a sale here.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
With the extra space saved on the ROM in the device, you could either add some more applications in for greater functionality or possibly just decrease the overall price of the unit given that you wouldn't need so much memory to store the OS. Or both.
3Com used QNX in the Ergo Audrey (I still wish I'd managed to get one of those in time), and not only did it work well technically, but it also created a very hackable device.
Just some thoughts.
There is no escape from The Muffin.
I would imagine that soon, someone will have hacked this device in order to run Windows or Dreamcast or something.
??
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
How much would you be willing to shell out so you can say you run linux on your PDA?
Is Embedix GPL'd. If not, why not? If so, will Sharp be releasing source for everything on it?
The Japanese version has everything and the kitchen sink. Let's hope they have at least half the functionality in the US Linux version.
Check out the main page (Japanese)
Here's a page with the wireless modem and camera
And mpeg4 video playback (with add-on encoder is very cool too)!
Device specs, more pictures, etc.
http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/index.asp
Fine-looking device, but become a developer and
m
things look creaky:
From:
http://developer.sharpsec.com/IntermediatePage.cf
UK Site RELIES on Flash, with nothing to tell you that. That makes me MAD!
The UK "Order" site is not even open for Pre-orders.
The US "Pre-Order" site is for Orders.
Then of course, there are the commercial issues against X11 - your average PDA consumer only cares about quick performance, a useable interface and lots of possible applications - something that X11 doesn't particularly offer. The target market is not for geeks and specialized applications (which is relatively small).
There has been some discussion on the Sharp Developer's comment posting web site about the possibility of implementing X11 on this device (the short answer is that Sharp has no plans to implement it).
So how do you differenciate between growing pains and an evil plot? If this was an MS site there would be 30 posts bashing the tactics of the worlds largest software maker. But because it isn't, it is just "growing pains." Oh well!
"Using a 206 MHz Intel StrongARM processor, 16 MB Flash ROM, 32 MB SDRAM and a 240 x 320 reflective TFT LCD, the SL-5000 series sounds eerily similar to the latest PPC 2002 devices . . ."
I just find it slightly amusing that so many Linux users bitch and moan endlessly when they discover that "Sorry, but on your laptop's video chipset, X is only supported in 640x480 standard VGA." ...Yet some of these same people want to see X run on all manner of portable/pocket-size devices with screens that can't do more than half that resolution!
imagine a wireless beowolf cluster of these :-)
Do Unto Others As You Would Have Others Do Unto You - ONLY HARDER!
I, too, agree with the above posts - except the statement that "Your typical user doesn't want choice" bothers me a little bit. I think what you're really trying to say is that the typical user doesn't like confusion; AKA. too many illogical ways to perform the same command in a particular application or operating system.
I believe the typical user *does* prefer choices. Otherwise, you wouldn't see Microsoft selling those "Plus!" packs seperately for all of their Windows '9x products. People will pay extra to be able to add more custom sounds, backgrounds, animated mouse pointers, etc. They like having more choice/flexibility to customize the GUI. Mainframe and minicomputers never had appeal to the "typical user" because they were dull, dry and boring. It took the advent of the "personal computer" to spark interest in the average person, even if some of those same people use to use minicomputers/mainframes daily in the workplace. The whole name "personal computer" implies ability to personalize/customize/make unique.
Seems like a better choice to me.
My coat has a total of six pockets in it. Just imagine ... walking around with a beowul...
Oh never mind.
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The biggest issue is the window manager, and Carl Worth has done a great job of hacking the Ion window manager to be at least adequate.
Also, Mandrake of Elightenment fame is reportedly working on a new wm specifically for handhelds.
...to contain the (in)famous Amiga DE and the JVM from UK's Tao Group? Every time I see the specs of this thing, they change. The only thing static is the Lineo Imbedix. Sheesh, Sharp, make up yer mind already! I'd really like to get one of these things.
works -- slowly. It's no fun. I've done almost all of my development for iPAQ using the cross-compile chain from handhelds.org because kernel compiles shouldn't take a half hour.
If you're asking will it run apps written in C? Of course, as long as they're compiled for ARM.
1. Yes, it is eminently hackable.. but on Sharp's site, they say that it won't be possible to make it into a microserver. (However, a CF II slot means that you CAN connect a pricey 802.11b card to it... ultra-small, ultra-portable Web surfing and hacking). 2. Unless you've a wallet large enough to deserve a combination lock, it's not gonna be that good an MP3 player at first. Granted, they're working on Microdrive support, but the RAM is only 32 MB and the only other media slot is SD (or SmartMedia..? I've never messed with SD before.). 3. If you register with their site, you can pre-order a Developer's Version for $400. Delivery by end of month. (ps: Those site refs are very incomplete; just click the hyperlinks.)
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
The only thing that is holding back the release of QNX iPAQ is their unfinished documentations --- you can take a look at the half-finished documentations here.
http://207.198.90.123/ipaq_bsp/
Another closed "linux" PDA. WE've had several now and none of the manufacturers will freely give out the hardware specs so that developers can do what they want on the device. WE have to completely reverse engineer the devices in-order to get a full understanding and full use out of the devices. If sharp will happily give me the schematics or complete technical documentation so I can blow away their linux install and put my own on there in an Ipaq-esque way then I'll take notice of the device. But until then it's just an overpriced Ipaq that is trying to capture the "linux" sales hype. People will buy a linux based device because it's possible to upgrade it yourself or write software yourself. (hence the populartity of the Palm platform... anyone can write apps for it, and the dev kit is 100% free as compared to the several thousand dollars you have to spend to write software for the CE or pocket windows platform.)
So anyone have links to PDF's or PS files that completely document the machines Hardware interface? how about the bootloader sourcecode? or info on how to blow away their bootloader and install my own? I'm betting that they will never release that information.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That's excellent to know... Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll try to lay my hands on an iPaq now. :)
There is no escape from The Muffin.
This is the unit that runs the new Amiga runtime environment, using the intent virtual processor from Tao.
Amiga lives!
Did you even read the message you are responding to? X11 runs fine on the AgendaVR (a 66MHz MIPS) and the iPaq (a 200MHz ARM). It was developed on and for low-end DEC workstations with considerably less power. I won't repeat the other arguments.
cheers, joshua
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!
If you lower your expectations far enough then you indeed could say that X11 runs fine on an Agenda VR (note: "fine", not "well") - I'm sure Windows 98 works just "fine" on a 16MB Pentium PC too! (And those old "3-M" machines way back when the X Window System was first released ran slow as molasses compared to what anyone today is used to). There are good reasons why X11 isn't widely adopted (yet) on PDAs and likely won't be without extensive modification - while it has advantages for porting applications, by the time you add a window manager, widget sets, etc. etc. you have a pretty heavyweight graphic system. Stripped down versions of "X" and Xlib-like libraries are available (Tiny-X, W Windows, FLTK) but so far they have their own trade-offs. I hadn't heard of the "Familiar" Linux distribution which sounds like a great step in the right direction ...