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Neutrinos, Muons and the Standard Model
scorp1us writes: "I can't believe I haven't seen this posted yet. Apparently experiments in particle physics aren't holding to theory. The result: a search for a new form of energy or matter. Read about it in the Post. No wonder witches weigh as much as a duck."
Witches weigh as much as a duck because they're both made out of wood. Everybody knows that.
Peter Meyers, a professor of physics at Princeton University who was not part of the research team, said the finding is the "sort of crack" that "has been sought for many, many years."
Great. It looks like it's not just the moderators, then.
bu they have restricted access since 09/11. You can't even hike in the woods around it anymore.
I think it was posted yesterday. It just didn't reach the front page.
That article had many more references, too...
I had always wondered about all the hard "facts" in science. Considering that most of science is based on educated guesses, it was only a matter of time before real hard facts started surfacing. Maybe this is the start of disproving Einstein's theory.
Your actions in life will determine your children's future.
Maybe I'll win that bet I made with my highschool physics professor that I could break at least one before I die! :)
Seriously though, this is cool stuff, I'd read the actual paper when it gets published but I'm sure I'd drown in a see of evil mathematics.
/~mikeg
I think that this is maybe not so surprising. Theories in particle physics are very unlike a lot of other theories. There's not much evidence sitting around for some of these things, and as new evidence comes in, the theories change.
This is true for any scientific endeavor, but the changes are much more rapid in things like high-energy physics.
In short, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be taken as a "radical breakthrough" just because someone had the muon equation wrong, because it was going to happen at some point.
Come on, give it up, that's
I thought the guys who won the Nobel Prize for Physics already discovered a new form of matter. Is this more of their findings, or something totally different? Does this mean that there could be 2 new forms of matter to bring the total up to 5 forms?
Plus:
"On a statistical basis, that would be a 1 in 400 probability of happening as a result of chance. "
That doesn't seem like a big deal to me. That sounds more like a problem in the experiement. I don't think anyone should be jumping for joy at this discovery until they duplicate it in another test.
This was posted a few days ago, along with links to much better articles:
1 3
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/08/22212
What the experiment shows is that the plan-vanilla Standard Model doesn't perfectly match reality. This is a surprise to nobody.
The results give a tantalizing look at one region of this breakdown, but proclaiming "a new form of energy or matter" is a bit premature at this point. What this will actually do is help confirm, refute, or fine-tune a few of the new models that are replacement candidates for the Standard Model.
I found it interesting that these "results" ended up in the media before being accepted by the Journal they are publishing in.
In science, especially physics, there is a tradition of review which has caught many claims such as this before.
It is likely that they have missed some minor force or effect in thier Standard Model calculations, or that we simply need to understand neutrinos better.
Until a Physical Review Journal accepts research, and even sometimes after that, it should not be viewed as anything more than fantasy.
to the drug industry. After all they did say:
Peter Meyers, a professor of physics at Princeton University who was not part of the research team, said the finding is the "sort of crack" that "has been sought for many, many years."
I'm sure this will the ultimate crack that crackheads everywhere will be searching for and paying top dollar for.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
"If the facts do not fit the theory, change the facts"
--Albert Einstein
I propose "cowboynealon"...
Omnes arx vestrum sunt adiuncta nobis.
Peter Meyers, a professor of physics at Princeton University who was not part of the research team, said the finding is the "sort of crack" that "has been sought for many, many years."
Amazing magic tricks
A quick search of the Fermilab site found some more specifics than in the Washington Post article: a press release, the paper itself: A Precise Determination of Electroweak Parameters in Neutrino-Nucleon Scattering, and some slides [PDF] from a Fermilab seminar.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
"On a statistical basis, that would be a 1 in 400 probability of happening as a result of chance. "
That doesn't seem like a big deal to me. That sounds more like a problem in the experiement. I don't think anyone should be jumping for joy at this discovery until they duplicate it in another test.
This *is* a duplicate experiment - or close to it. Check the previous Slashdot article on the subject. This project is measuring a value that was measured by three previous experiments. Two of the previous experiments gave a very wide range for results, and the other one gave a narrow range for the results consistent with this experiment's results.
Here's a good "plain english" explanation of what happened.
Karma whore disclaimer: This link was stolen from the other article about this experiment.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Since neutrinos are so small, most of the time they passed through the nucleus without affecting it. The frequency of collisions told scientists about the electromagnetic forces that affect how neutrinos behave -- the so-called weak forces. The scientists found slightly fewer interactions with one of the weak forces than had been predicted by the Standard Model, physicists' current description of fundamental forces and particles. Since the model is very precise, scientists concluded that the difference was significant. (emphasis mine)
This is what I love about science. Here we have the Standard Model, formed from exhaustively detailed tests over the last 30 years. As the article states, the model is very precise, and slight deviations are significant issues. However, rather than scrap the entire idea, or announce that the tests were probably flawed, or decry the scientists who performed the tests as heathens and radicals, here we see that the community will embrace this new data and reform the model in such a way as to make it work.
This is the beauty of science. If something doesn't work out the way it was supposed to, if a theory doesn't fit with the cold, hard data, the majourity of scientists will go out of their way to fix the theory (not the data). Scientists are always going out of their way to keep each other in check; at any given time one scientist may be checking some prominent theory or another. It keeps them honest, and while the system isn't fool proof, it's damn tight.
Sometimes it's great to be a geek.
~Aaron.
student of animation and the fine arts
I always knew the professors over at Princeton were on Crack and now we have proof:
Peter Meyers, a professor of physics at Princeton University who was not part of the research team, said the finding is the "sort of crack" that "has been sought for many, many years."
I really wonder if we might not be better of throwing the physics textbooks out of the window and starting over again.
But did you see how many freakin' authors the paper had?
You would probably have more luck if you just sent mail directly to the editors.
At the risk of being slightly off topic, does anyone else get a little flustered with all the non-abolutes that seem to nearly accompany scientific papers? Examples from this very article:
"...prompting physicists yesterday to announce that they might be on the verge of finding a new form of matter or energy."
"While this discrepancy could be a fluke, then scientists who conducted the experiment said the odds were it represented something meaningfull..."
"If some hidden matter or energy did cause the discrepancy..."
"It could be a very big deal..."
"It would be very exciting if we find another force"
"...there is a high probablility that something is wrong with the theory"
Just something to think about, not really a big deal, but it would be nice for people to just tell it how it is.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
I am always wary of results obtained by any physicists who have spent years and years seeking any sort of crack.
(Sorry about that)
Yeah: don't. You'll *really* regret it in the morning.
Doh have to wait 20 seconds after hitting reply to submit.
There are no absolutes in science, only hypotheses. And they are valid only as long as they fit with evidence. Evidence can be flawed, misinterpreted, and outright lied about.
So no, it doesn't bother me. It would bother me if they were too confident.
They are 'telling it how it is'
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
GOD: No, no, no..you have it all wrong..nuetrinos really are nuetral....Henderson had a bag of Cheetos for lunch and forgot to wash his hands.
Yes we are pretty stupid. In the year 3500AD people will look back and laugh at our stupidity just like we do when we look at what people did in 500AD or even 1500AD. All we can do is use the little knowledge we have and make the best theories we can from it. Oh btw we do only have a little knowledge on how this universe functions. I mean we don't really even understand our own bodies.
I hate muons.
i don't believe you. ideas have momentum, but historically, science has gotten more and more accurate at describing the natural world.
many times existing theory has inertia, but if the evidence is strong enough, the more correct hypothesis will subplant the weaker one.
now, if you are going to accuse people who resist new ideas of small mindedness, then you are doing them a great disservice. Skepticism must be on both sides of a scientific dispute. Fawning over and prematurely accepting new theory is just as bad for Good Science as being to stubborn to accept that your idea is wrong.
if you want to dispute this, show me some evidence. Recall that astronomy has gone from a geo-centric world (with heaven in the out spheres)to a helio-centric universe. Newtonian mechanics were replaced by general relativity. the whole history of science shows the same trends.
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
If so why don't you go get a high paying job citing your vast knowledge of latin. Along with that you can cite your verbal on the SATs because we all know the deliberately use words with Greek and Latin roots to promote the study of the languages.
...for why the experiments don't agree with the theory. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is...
:-p
Anyhow, if the results of all experiments had to agree with theory, undergraduate physics labs would have disproved all the laws of physics a long time ago...
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
Its not that witches weighed as much as a duck... Its just that the duck has a higher dispacement of water pound for pound than your typical witch does.
And yes, PROPAGANDA is still up,
Bowie J. Poag
My nine-year-old daughter and I were having a discussion about a month ago. She was studying the bohr model of the atom in her science class. I became interested when she started talking about the nucleus. So I asked, "which particles are inside the nucleus?" She didn't know so I described protons and neutrons. Then I asked, "which particles are outside the nucleus?" She thought for a minute and said, "Croutons?"
My wife and I laughed for about a half hour, since she always steals the croutons from our salads at restaurants.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Out of all the many theories we've had over the
1000's of years, we only have a handful of laws.
Therefore, by pure statistics, any theory we
currently have is most likely wrong.
Data is king... an ounce of data is worth a
pound of theory.
...and you better believe some grad student was
slaving away for three years (re-)analyzing that
data until he was blue in the face.
Disclaimer: I used to study gravity, not particle physics. That said...
Neutrinos only interact with other particles through the electroweak force (ignoring gravity for the moment). There are three bosons which "carry" the electroweak force, called W+, W-, and Z0. The discrepency with the Standard Model seems to occur with the Z0 (called the neutral current in the paper).
There are several things it could be other than a new force. The scientists will have to eliminate all forms of background noise and detector errors, the possibility that it was just some sort of hadron resonance, and a lot of other things.
It is amazing how sensitive particle experiments can be. I remember reading about one that had to filter out (among other things) the noise caused by the motion of the moon orbiting the earth in order to extract the signal.
That said, I think they may be on to something.
This led Einstein on his investigation/theory which resulted in the foundation of modern physics.
Never throw away data...
This is an amazing poem.
----------
Neutrinos, they are small.
They have no charge, they have no mass.
They do not interact at all.
The Earth is just a silly ball
to them through which they simply pass
Like photons through a sheet of glass
Or dustmaids down a drafty hall.
They snub the most exquisite gas,
Insult the stallion in his stall,
Cold-shoulder steel and sounding brass
And pass, like tall and painless guillotines,
through you and me into the grass.
At night they enter Nepal
And pierce the lover and his lass
from underneath the bed.
You call it wonderful? I call it crass.
- John Updike
going to sacrifice a couple karma points by going wildly off topic, but this is something that's been bugging me lately - the continual bitching when the occasional article gets rerun. (please note, i am not accusing the parent poster of this. that was just a helpful link for those that weren't reading the science section).
newspapers rerun stories all the time. the news networks are 90% recycled, content free info. as a general rule, /. does a pretty fine job of delivering up spanking fresh content, filtered for interest, packaged and delivered free (free, goddamnit!) to my desktop.
it wasn't that many years ago when i had to make do with the anemic science and technology section of the daily rag.
damn. i feel better. thanks /.
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
Okay, if you do 400 experiments, you can expect 1 would be in the 1-in-400 bin on the tail of the histogram.
I'm sure the Standard Model has endured way more than 400 tests.
A few more labs need to repeat this experiment to make sure the result is accurate.
--Blair
P.S. If a neutrino is chargeless, how do you "fire" one at something?
Hold onto that thought, 'cause I'm about to blow a Mack truck-sized hole in it.
Do a google search on Alfred Wegener, and you'll see a guy who got his ass kicked all over the place for proposing a theory that contradicted scientific understanding at the time. And was harassed as vigorously as any religious heretic. Want more? Here's the frigging link.
Through the hoop, nothin' but net.
Do yourself a favor and check out Science's reaction to Darwin and doubters of Global Warning. Shocking behaviour all around, if you ask me.
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
Step 1. Perform dozens of experiments.
Step 2. Perform dozens of statistical tests on each experiment, accepting significances at the level needed to achieve the desired rate of "interesting" results.
Step 3. Call the media.
"On a statistical basis, that would be a 1 in 400 probability of happening as a result of chance. "
It sounds like a second-hand description of "quantum dot" technology. This is where you create a potential well in a conducting material and confine an electron within the well. Because the well is small, you get only certain energy levels permitted for the electron, just as in an atom. By changing the properties of the well, you change the properties of this "fake atom".
/ 1097corcoran.html
t .html
Just out of curiousity, do you any more info on this, or on applications for it? I buy that you can do this, but it seems hard to control this sort of potential except using nuclei?
It's actually quite easy to control the resulting energy configuration. The "allowed" energy levels depend on the size of the well (controlled when you etch it) and the electric potential between the inside and the outside of the well (which you can get "for free" by making the well on a semiconductor wafer and doping the inside and outside differently, or which you can fine-tune by having an electrode next to the well).
A decent introduction into quantum dots is here:
http://www.sciam.com/specialissues/1097solidstate
Scientific American has a few other articles on quantum dots, which you can find through their search page.
A collection of more in-depth articles is here:
http://www.mitre.org/research/nanotech/quantum_do
Applications include quantum computing (if you put multiple dots on a chip close enough together to interact with each other), and building semiconductor lasers with any frequency you like (even tunable frequency). More applications will undoubtedly arise; we've only just started to play with these things.
Geee, maybe I can patent it.
.
The article, in essence, doesn't say anything about anything. These kinds of things happen in particle physics every day and it takes more than that to change the established theory.
The established theory? To begin with, the Standard Model only involves massless neutrinos. There are already many 'established' discrepancies to the Standard Model: for instance that neutrinos have non-zero mass, and the Higgs mechanism by which masses are created.
So there's already 'something wrong with the theory'. And everybody knows that. The Standard Model is somewhat an old fart among many, partly contradictory theories in particle physics.
So, I don't have a cool concluding quip today, just the note that this isn't real news.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
From the Post article:
Unlike electrons, which are negatively charged, neutrinos have no charge. Because they are also very light compared with other subatomic particles, they behave in a ghostly way...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were still working on the whole "Do neutrinos have mass?" question. If something has no mass can it be said to be lighter than something else?
Do you SEA whatI mean?????
Well, I didn't think it was a matter of size...
It is not the first time that the Standard modell has been modified.
:-)
:-)
For example in the begining there has been only
one generation of quarks and leptons.
(namely: up and down) But on electron collision experiments showed that there must be new generations: (now called
strange - charmed and beauty - truth.)
Until 1995, where experimental evidence was found, the truth quark was only a postulate based on symmetry considerations.
The same applies to symmetry conservation. For a long time CP (Charge conjugation with Parity) was considered conserved. But an experiment on T (Time inversion) violation showed if CPT was to be conserved, CP must be violated. Again the standard model had to be adabted.
And at the CERN (Eruopean Nuclear Research Center) in Geneva they believe, that they have fond some evidence for the so called Higgs particle, which is the cause for the mass of particles. A proof for the Higgs particle would be an enhancement for the Standard Model
Those examples show that the Standard Model of Particles and Interactions is not a static one.
It is almost like the linux kernel - if you permit this comparision - people send in patches.
If a patch is useful it will be released for the masses
Maybe we are entering a odd release stage now
I wouldn't make any long term plans based on this paper. The "one chance in 400" is misleading -- if you look at the paper, what it's really saying is that their experimental result differed from their theoretical result by three standard deviations (three sigma). On the face of it, this isn't very impressive. The trouble with straightforward statistical analysis in this fasion is that particle physics is hard. Experiments are being done at the limits of detectability, and often in ways that have never been done before. Because of this, it's extremely hard to tell what one sigma is, since it's entirely possible (and somewhat likely) that you just don't understand the pitfalls yet. Particle physicists have a rule of thumb for cases like this: a six sigma effect pans out about half the time. This is only a three sigma result, so adjust your expectations accordingly. A result like this is worth publishing, but won't persuade many people unless followup experiments get the same results (with *much* better statistics).
what have these guys been smoking? oh yeah, here it is in the article:
"Peter Meyers, a professor of physics at Princeton University who was not part of the research team, said the finding is the "sort of crack" that "has been sought for many, many years."
that explains it all to me...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Upon throwing the Physics textbook out the window, I observed that it had a tendency to move in a direction normal to the horizon at a steadily increasing rate until it hit the ground. I repeated this experiment with several other physics textbooks and several other windows, and achieved similar results.
I propose the existence of a 'textbook field' which acts upon all textbooks in the vicinity of windows. Further research will be needed in this field to determine whether the behaviour of the textbook field is significantly affected by the presence or absence of curtains on the window.
The text of the article implies this is a 3 sigma result. In physics the usual rule of thumb is to consider a 4 sigma result highly noteworhty, and a good 5 sigma result almost conclusive.
3 sigma is suggestive, but we really need to see this confirmed more precisely, and by other groups before believing there is really something here. You might think 3 sigma is statistically 99.75 CL, but this isn't really accurate because we can't estimate systematics all that well.
Just a minor clarification:
The frequency of collisions told scientists about the electromagnetic forces that affect how neutrinos behave -- the so-called weak forces.
Actually, since neutrinos have no charge, electromagnetic forces have NO effect on them. The second half of the sentence is correct, it is the weak force that is acting here, which is a nuclear force, not an electromagnetic one.
Phyisics primer for the interested: there are 4 fundamental forces of nature (in increasing order of strength): gravity, electromagnetic, weak nuclear (keeps electrons in orbit around atomic nuclei), and strong nuclear (keeps atomic nuclei from flying apart).
- jonathan.
I'll take a stab. Suppose I say "It's raining outside." This sounds like a classicly falsifiable statement. But is it? If you look out the window and don't see rain, it may be that I was wrong. Or (I could perversely argue) it could be that you (incorrectly) assumed that
[deleted various arguments]
All this goes to show is that your "classicly falsifiable statement" is a bad theory. This is why actual theories are either much more complicated, taking into account all sorts of possibilities (as you detailed), or are very explicit (as in the F=ma form).
Making a statement, in casual language, as you did, is not thorough enough. For example, one could say "Nothing can go faster than the speed of light.", but that isn't the actual theory. In fact, the theory is just a set of mathematical equations that show (among other things) that the mass of an object increases by a factor of (1/sqrt(c^2-velocity^2)), so that unless something can have an infinite mass (or a resting mass of 0), it can't go at the speed of light. And other fun things that all, together, show that nothing can travel at the speed of light.
A single test can't really topple a theory since you can't know for sure that the problem was in the theory and not in your test.
Sure, testing errors are always possible, but this is what repeatability is all about. A single test , run multiple times, can definitely topple a theory. If two separate people do the exact same test and come up with the same disagreement with the theory, then the chances of testing error are much smaller. The point is that if a theory can't explain a discrepancy, then the theory is either wrong or incomplete.
Sometimes things do get a little rough in the science world. Also Einstein never really believed in the basic results of quantum mechanics (even though he discovered the quantization of light), to the extent that he spent most of his life in a vain attempt to disprove it.
If you saw balls rolling up hill, you'd believe too!
And here is the text I linked to if the link goes down:
electroweak theory,
a unified field theory that describes two of the fundamental forces in nature, electromagnetism (see electromagnetic radiation) and the weak interaction. The electroweak theory derived from efforts to produce a theory for the weak force analogous to quantum electrodynamics (QED), the quantum theory of the electromagnetic force. Although the weak force fails to meet a requirement for that theory-that it behave the same way at different points in space and time-because it acts only across distances smaller than an atomic nucleus, it was shown that the electromagnetic force, which can extend across interstellar distances, and the weak force are but different manifestations of a more fundamental force, the electroweak force. This made it possible to formulate a unified model that predicted the existence of mediating, or messenger, particles. The electroweak theory, for which Sheldon Glashow, Abdus Salam, and Steven Weinberg shared the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physics, was confirmed in 1983 by the discovery of the W and Z particles, two of a number of elementary particles it predicted.
So then, there are 3 fundamental forces of nature: gravity, electroweak, and the strong force.
Please throw your old physics primer away, it is outdated.
It's called the ThinkOn
I'm A 5th year physics students and this article says absolutely nothing, no references, no formula's. No conclusions, just this could change a lot.
Duh, my mother could say that.
Who the fuck thought this was interesting!!
One of my university leacturers told me why he decided to go the mathematics route.
"Mathematics and Physics are the last true blood sports. Kill one bird an EVERYTHING goes."
Funny when you realise the ramifications of this since ALOT of work needs to be reevaluated, etc, even when the results are "statistically" correct, since the explinations and models of how things achieved some result are now totally different.
-Tim
A preprint of the paper reporting the experiment is posted at:0 /2001/0/1
http://arXiv.org/find/hep-ex/1/au:+McFarland/0/1/
hep-ex/0104037 "Observation of an Anomalous Number of Dimuon Events in a High Energy Neutrino Beam."
I wonder if you could make a beowulf clus....
The post says this is the "kind of crack" the
science communitty has been looking for to help
complete the universe's physics.
hmm.I need some of that crack to get me through school. The shit I get in my neighborhood no longer gets me amped up.
Many of the models involving it treat it as a fluid, so I'm not so sure I can agree with it being a different state of matter. As for the article itself, well, it's interesting an all, but it doesn't really *mean* anything unless they repeat the experiment at other colliders to demonstrate that the error observed doesn't come from the apparatus itself. If they can get the same thing elsewhere, then maybe they have something.
Does the logic escape the principle? How about the perspective?
And don't pine on about getting a Phd, no one gives a shit if you wasted six years of your life at Mulligan College in Jerkwater, Missouri.
Anyone who went to grad school knows there is a school for every skill level, including none.
They were published in Physical Review Letters, you were published in Slashdot. I think that tells us what we need to know. Consider yourself flamed!
The interesting thing to think about in all of this is that the goal of science is to find the "real" and underlying "truth". Obviously we are still a little way out from this "holy grail" however I would venture to say we have made considerable progress. Somehow, somewhere out there the truth does exist however, and we simply have to find it and realize it. Some would argue that there is no real truth since the universe is inherently chaotic and is constantly reinventing itself. If this were the case then the everyday ordinary things we take for granted (such as the earth revolving around the sun) could just all of a sudden change. Of course our evidence points otherwise, so we can probably safely assume that the "truth" does actually "exist". Now we just need to find it. You are correct in the saying science is a bunch of theories, because in fact until we hit upon the full truth we only have guesses, hypothesis and "partial truths" that may explain one phenomena or another. That is what makes science, particularily physics, so interesting it is a constant quest for "truth" which will never really end until we reach the omega point.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
I think your description fits open source's, and it's nice to realize at this time of night that at least Physics will not rest in the hands of a few who "discovered" or created the building blocks of its Standard Model.
"Wireless : LAN
3 standard deviations may seem large
...
but one should remember that there are numerous tests of the
Standard Model. Let's assume we got 100 tests.
Probability that one fails at 3 sigma is around
25% - much more than 0.25% mentioned in one of the
posts.
Though most physicists do believe the Standard Model is not the whole story - 3 sigma in
one experiment is not sufficient to
prove it is wrong.
Moreover - 3 sigma effects were already
reported several times - all but the two recent
ones (muon anomalous magnetic moment and this)
are gone
Kubus
Kelly had just finished the last summer
cheerleading practice.She was the first
girl in ten years to make the squad their
freshman year. Several of the other
cheerleaders were upset. Kelly wasn't concerned
about their thoughts. She shyed
away from others and had very few friends. She didn't believe in the clicks
people got into. Kelly is one of the prettiest girls in school. Shoulder length
reddish blonde hair, acute face with a small button nose, and always smiled.
Breasts the size of small grapefruits with nipples same size as quarters. Flat
slightly sculptured belly, slender waist, narrow hips, small plump butt and
perfectly shaped legs. All wrapped into a 5'4" 115pds frame.
After showering Kelly dried herself, as she went to her locker. She noticed four
girls across from her locker talking and snickering. Kelly ignored them. After
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straps. There was no way she'd be able to wear it now. She turned around to
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Kelly put on her low cut tank top, and shorts. After throwing her stuff into her
bag, she headed out. Her breasts stood just as if she had a bra on. Her breasts
firmly jiggled as she walked to the bus stop. Kelly was headed downtown to the
library first. Then to a movie.
Kelly had noticed lately that boys as well as men were looking her over as she
walked by. Today more so than ever. After she got off the bus downtown. She went
to walking the 4 blocks to the library. When a old black man walked out of a
alley. Hey there. Where you headed? (shyly and quietly) Oh, hi. I'm going to
have lunch with my dad. Kelly walked a little faster. She didn't notice that the
old black man was following her. Kelly went into the library and looked over a
couple of books untill it was time to go to the movie. She looked up. Over a few
tables was the old black man. Since she had noticed men looking her way. Kelly
was starting to become a tease. So, she walked his way to put the books away.
She knew he wouldn't do anything in public place. When she was in front of him.
She dropped the books. Bending over to pick them up. (without bending her knees)
Her tank top layed so the old black man could get a good look at her white
breasts. The old black man's mouth dropped open. Oh! Excuse me. (acting as it
was an acident)
Kelly headed to the movie. Which was a couple of blocks away. She loved the
reaction she had got from the old man. The movie Kelly wanted to see was sold
out. She wanted to see a movie. So, she got a ticket to another. Then she saw
that another was starting and it was rated R and nobody was around. She went on
in. Hardly anybody was there. Kelly sat towards the back . The movie started.
When a nude scene started someone came and sat by her. She didn't even pay any
mind. She in awe of what was on the screen. This was her first R movie. There on
the screen was a black slave climbing on top of his master's white wife to have
sex. Kelly liked the sight of the slave's black skin on the white woman's body.
Kelly didn't even realize the person beside her had placed their hand onto her
knee.
But, when he moved his huge hand upto her thigh. Kelly regained her awareness.
She turned. It was the old black man. She tried to push his hand away. He just
leaned over and kissed her neck. He kissed his way down to the tops of her white
breasts. As he moved his hand upto her shorts. He kissed the tops of her breasts
as he rubbed her crotch. He then unbuttoned and unzipped her shorts. Even though
she liked the sight of his black face to her white chest area. She knew she had
to do something before he got any further. She thought to herself (that she
shouldn't have teased this old man) As the old black man started pulling at the
young white girl's shorts. Stop. Or I'll scream. At this time an usher was
making his rounds. Kelly got up to leave. The usher stopped her. your not old
enough to see this movie. I know. I came into the wrong movie by acident. Kelly
left and went home.
It had been several weeks since the incident with the old black man. School had
started. Pro football season had started the week before, and Kelly's school was
going to have their first game tomorrow morning. Today they were having a pep
rally at the end of the school day. Kelly stopped over Stacy's house for awhile.
It was about 6:00p.m. Kelly hurried home to help set up things for her dad's
party. Every month her dad and some of his friends would get together and have a
few drinks and discuss sports. This was her dad's turn to have it at his house.
When she got home. Her dad told Kelly that her mother had went out with aunt Mae
and that she'd be out late. Kelly helped her dad set things up. Most of the guys
were there. Kelly fixed herself something to eat and took it to her room. She
turned on the stereo as she ate.
It was about 8:15 now and Kelly decided she'd take swim as it was unseasonabley
warm tonight. Kelly danced around to the music as she got her bikini out.
Without thinking she took her top and bra off. She was in front of the window
and hadn't pulled the blinds down. She looked outside and noticed Mr. Turner
looking up at her. Mr.Turner was retired runningback from the local pro team. He
was black very muscular. He stood about 6 feet tall and weighed around 235
pounds. Kelly was so embarassed. She hurried away from the window and put on her
bikini. She thought about not swimming. But, after a half hour she went on down
to swim. As she tried to sneak by the rec room. Mr. Turner walked out and almost
bumped into her. Oh! Hi. Didn't mean to run you down. Kelly couldn't even speak.
By the way. I didn't mean to stare earlier. It isn't everyday you see such
beauty. That's ok. (very quietly) As she went onto swim.
Kelly swam and relaxed poolside for a couple hours. She went on upto the
bathroom and took a shower. Dried herself. Then, slipped on a robe. She went
across the hall to her bedroom. As Kelly entered her room she looked to see who
was coming up the stairs. It was Mr. Turner. May I use the restroom. Sure. Kelly
pushed at the door. The door sounded like it closed. But, it came open slightly.
Kelly saw Mr. Hicks looking through his upstairs window towards her. He must be
around 73 years old. Kelly turned on the radio and started dancing. Her robe
came open. Mr. Hicks just stared as she danced. Kelly turned off the overhead
light after turning a lamp on. She thought to her self. She'd realy give
Mr.Hicks a surprise. She slipped her robe off. Exposing her totaly naked body to
him. After all he was in his house and to old to do anything. She danced around
for a few more seconds. Then she layed down on her bed. Mr.Hicks still had view
of her. Kelly was turning into a real tease and was liking it. She rolled over
onto her belly, so that Mr.Hicks would get a good look at her butt.
She heard the bathroom door open. She glanced at a mirror across the room, and
noticed her door was open slightly. She thought about getting up and closing it.
But it was to late. Mr.Turner was in the hallway next to her doorway. Kelly
acted to be asleep. After a few seconds she heard the door close. Kelly figured
that he pulled the door closed. But, when she heard some movement. She became
terrified. She kept her eyes shut as if she was sleeping. She then felt
Mr.Turner run his hand up the back of her white thigh. Kelly trembled as he
caressed her young white buns. She instantly felt herself getting wet inside.
Mr.Turner kissed her white butt. Kelly liked this but knew it was wrong. She
turned over onto her back. Don't!
Then she saw him. Totaly naked huge black man. Huge biceps, a very muscular
chest, ripple tummy. Kelly let out a quiet gasp as she noticed his huge erect
penis. It must be 11inches long and realy fat. She couldn't get her eyes off of
his huge black monstercock. Mr.Turner walked upto her face. Suck on it. No! as
she thought ( that would be gross) He rubbed his black cock across her lips a
couple times. He then went to the foot of the bed and knelt down. He kissed the
young white girl's thighs working his way up. Don't! Stop! I'll scream. As
squeezed her legs together. He kissed her blonde pubic hair, then lower belly.
Kelly became speachless as he kissed white belly and licked at her bellybutton.
Mr.Turner wasn't going to take a no for an answer at this point. He kissed his
way to her teenage white breasts. He kissed and sucked at her nipples at the
same time ran his hand to her young pussy.
Kelly let out a moan, as he inserted his finger inside her. She tried to push
him away. Even though she was enjoying what he was doing. Kelly knew this was
bad and besides he would most likely rip her in half. Mr.Turner rubbed at her
teenage pussy for moment to lubricate the outside of her pussylips. Mr.Turner
climbed onto the bed to mount her little white body. Kelly held her legs
together. Please don't It will hurt me. It only will hurt for a moment. Ohhh! As
Mr.Turner rubbed his huge black cock up and down her little pussy. He pushed
forward. No penetration. He gave big shove forward. Still no penetration of the
little white girl's pussy. He pushed again and finaly managed to get his
cockhead inside her. Kelly tightened up. He pushed a little deeper. She felt his
huge black cock press against her hyman. She knew that one more push would pop
her cherry. Just as he drew back. A knock at the door. Kelly! Kelly! Are you
awake. As the door opened. Mr.Turner jumped off the side of the bed.
Hi dear. Mmmom! Yes. Are you ok? ya. Dad, said you'd be late. The movie was sold
out. So, I came home early. Are you sure? That you are ok. Yes. Just tired. I've
told you to pull the blinds down. You are old enough now that guys will love to
see you dress and undress. You sure seem nervouse. Is there anything wrong? No
mom! Well, you look flush and sweaty. I'll get the thermetor. No. That's ok. I'm
alright. Ok. Call for me if you need me. Goodnight. Goodnight mom. Kelly was
trembleing. Mr.Turner jumped up and dressed and quietly went back downstairs
where there were still a few men gathered having their last drink. Kelly finaly
fell asleep a couple hours later. But, within another hour she woke up from a
bad dream. Her mother rushed in and comforted her. Kelly couldn't tell her
mother that she dreamed about being raped by twelve black men.
After this Kelly quit teasing men for a couple weeks. She started slowly once
more. She would mostly like old black men. She would go without a bra and leave
a button undone then lean over in front of them. During the holiday vacation.
When her parents were at work. Kelly even went totaly naked. Except a long
winter coat. She rode the public bus all the way downtown. She aboat croaked
when an old black man sat beside her. They talked awhile. He was headed to work.
He was going to retire in the spring, after 40 years of service. When he looked
the other way. Kelly undid the top button of her coat. Which exposed just a
little of the tops of her white breasts. Your a very pretty young lady. You need
to be careful. Someone may try to have their way with you. I can take care of
myself. Here's my stop. Take care.
Kelly felt ashamed. She stopped such things. Untill the last day of school. She
had worn her white blouse and plaid skirt.(the catholic school girl look) She
decided to walk home since it was very nice day out and school let out early.
She was walking through the park. She was nearing the walk bridge across the
creek. She heard some voices coming from under the car bridge nearby. There were
three black hobos. There was nobody else in sight. They were washing theirselves
in the creek. She starred at them. They only had their pants on. But, she liked
the sight o their black chests. Kelly also knew that they would most likely see
her cross the walkway. She was realy excited. After a moment she slipped her bra
then pantys off and put them in her backpack. This excited her. Even though they
were to far away to notice. She only had two blocks to go to get home from the
park. When she walked across the walkway. The men whistled and yelled to her.
They were close enough to see that she was a pretty girl. Kelly liked this but
ignored them. But, then she noticed they were following her. She picked up her
pace. A short distance from the street. They caught her. One of the black hobos
grabbed her. Turned her around. Man! We're goin to have a good time today. As he
saw her quarter sized pink nipples poking through her blouse. Then a cop drove
by. Then backed up. The men ran off. Mam! Were they bothering you? As the cop
walked upto her. No sir. He was a tall black man in his fortys. He took a double
take when he noticed her pirky breasts through her blouse. You need to watch how
you dress. Your asking for trouble.
That night she dreamed of Mr.Turner fucking her. She woke up in a sweat. She was
showering when her parents yelled in at her. Honey! We're headed to work early.
Kelly wondered more and more what it would feel like to be fucked by a black
man. Mr.Turner was very gentle with her. She couldn't believe how close she came
to being fucked. Kelly thought to herself-(I know it's wrong. But, I'm going to
find out today) She put on her bikini pantys then bra and her summer sundress.
After slipping on shoes she went downtown on the bus. Remembering the first
experience with an old black man. She walked towards the alley where she first
saw him. It was almost 10:00a.m. Ahead was a tall old black man. It might even
be the same man. Kelly acted as if she didn't notice him. She walked as if going
to the library. Hey baby! Don't you say hi to your friends? So, she knew he was
the same man and he remembered her. Oh. Hi. (acting not to be interested) Hey!
You want a puppy. (Knowing this was a ploy) (Even though she was scared-she was
going through with her plan) Sure! Where is it? Down here. In a box. Directing
her to the alley. Kelly nervousely followed. I sleep here and this puppy came
upto me and had no tags. A third of the way through the alley. There were stacks
of large cardboard boxes with blankets on them. There were five other old black
men laying on their blankets. Untill they seen her. Kelly started to leave. Not
soon enough. They surrounded her.
Don't I'll scream! One of the black men pulled out a knife. No you won't.
Unless! Kelly stood there while the black men fondled her. Two of them fondled
her breasts and two others played with her firm butt. One watched the street as
one of the black men unzipped her sundress and slipped the straps off of her
shoulders. Her dress fell to her ankles. Please! Don't hurt me. The man with the
knife walked upto her. Not saying a word. Cut the right strap of her bra. With
the other black men laughing he cut the left strap. Starring into her eyes he
ran the knife across the tops of her breasts. Then suddenly cut her bra in half.
Kelly's bra fell to the ground. Exposing her firm white breasts to the old black
bums. They all got quiet. Starring at the young white girl. The black man put
the knife up. Then with two hands grabbed her pantys and ripped them from her
petite teenage body. Kelly felt herself getting wet. Even though she was
terrified. Here she was a virgin about to be raped by six old black men in an
alley downtown. She didn't even know if they would kill her or not.
Kelly just watched as the man in front of her dropped his pants and undershorts.
He was black as midnight. His cock was hard pointing towards her. It was smaller
than Mr.Turner's. But, Kelly didn't see how it would fit into her. Kelly shaked
like a leaf and tears started to run down her face. The black man's cock pressed
against her belly as he stepped closer. He shoved her down onto a blanket. He
knelt down and pushed her legs apart. She was to scared to fight back. She
looked to the side as he mounted her. She noticed that the other men's dicks
were larger and fatter. He whispered to her I'm the nice one. The others would
just ram it inside you. He rubbed his black cock up and down her blonde pussy 4
or 5 times to slicken her up. He then pushed forward. Without sucess. Then
another, and another. Your one tight chick. One more huge shove forward and
Kelly felt his cockhead push inside her. Then another push and he was touching
her hyman. He pulled back. Then with a smile gave a quick shove forward. Kelly
screamed out in pain as his black dick ripped through her hyman.
The black man took pleasure at the painful look on her face. Your just a spoiled
white brat. As he slammed all 8 inches of his cock into her. Blood ran down her
butt. He squeezed her white tits so hard she thought that they would pop. She
felt his hairy black balls slamming against her white butt. The other black bums
were urging him to hurry. They wanted their turn. The pain subsided after a
couple minutes or so and Kelly was starting to enjoy the fucking she was
getting. She wrapped her legs across the backs of his. Kelly let out moans of
delight as the black man pounded his cock into her white pussy. She was about to
climax when she felt the man cum inside her. With one more lunge forward. He
pulled out of her. Who's next. She's a fine piece.
The next black hobo ordered her to her hands and knees. Like a dog you know.
After penetrating the young white girl from behind another got infront to force
her to suck him. She learned quick how to suck. Kelly first thought it was gross
to have a man's dick inside her mouth. After a couple minutes she even started
enjoying cocksucking. The man behind her fucked her as hard and fast as he
could. Making her buns and tits bounce around. She felt herself building to a
climax again. This time she squeeled in delight as she climaxed and felt the
black man cum inside her pussy. The old black man in front was cumming into her
mouth as the man behind pulled his black cock out and squirted a couple times
across her butt. The two black men quickly stepped away from the petite white
girl. When another layed beside her and directed her on top of him.
Kelly sat on his 12 inch black snake. She let out a gasp in dispair as the last
4 inches went inside her. It was uncomfortable as he fucked her. But, after a
moment it felt good being stretched this far. She figured he must have the
biggest dick in the world. To her surprise one of remaining black men knelt
behind her. He pushed her forward. He guided his 10inch black cock to her white
butt. He gave a hard continued push. Kelly screamed and tears appeared again as
she felt like she was being ripped in half. Without hesitation the black men
fucked her hard and unmerciful. One in her white ass and the other in her blonde
pussy. Even though it hurt after a few minutes of being double fucked. Kelly
yelled out in another orgasm. As the black man inside her butt squirted streams
and streams of cum inside her. Then the last black man traded places with the
man that was buttfucking her.
As he started buttfucking the teenage white girl. He yelled out. Hey! we're a
oreo cookie. Kelly was getting exhausted and was going limp. It felt like she
would pass out. Then she orgasmed again. After she came off of her third orgasm,
the man pumped her white ass full of his black seed. He quickly withdrew from
her as the man under her. Rolled over on top of her. He went to fucking his
black 12 inch pole in and out of her as fast as he could. He sucked on her white
breast. When he started cumming inside her he bit down. Kelly let out a yelp.
This didn't stop her from climaxing again, for the fourth time. The man stood
up. She was exhausted and just layed there. To her amazement they were still
standing around naked. We want you to meet Bubba.
Kelly was amazed when she saw Bubba. He was about 50yrs.old 6ft.6in. tall
220pds. His cock must be around 14 inches long. As he mounted Kelly's little
white body. He told her that he was going to fuck her brains out. It looked like
a black monster mounting a little white doll. He entered her slowly. Even though
she had been reamed out several times. It was slow going for him to get his
black cock into her. After getting 10 inches inside her white pussy. He started
fucking her hard. After a few minutes his huge black balls were smacking against
her white butt cheeks. Kelly orgasmed first. Then she felt him shoot a couple of
squirts of cum inside her pussy. He pulled his huge black cock out of her and
finished cumming all over her flat white belly. After he stepped back. She was
surrounded by the other six black men. They jirked theirselves off all over her.
She was drenched in cum. Her hair and face was covered with cum. Her white
breasts, belly, pubic hair, pussy, and butt was also was covered with cum. She
thought to herself I can't move. She figured that she was about to pass out with
exhaustion.
Kelly just layed there naked and covered with cum. The black men were dressed.
When she saw reflections of flashing lights. The black men had went to the
entrance of the alley. Kelly heard them talking to what seemed like police
officers. She slowly got up and peeked around the corner. It was the police. She
grabbed her sundress. As she walked out the otherside of the alley she slipped
on the dress. Her shoes had fallen off during all the fucking. Her breasts,
pussy, and butt ached from the pounding and stretching. She was drenched in cum
which was starting to dry on her now. No place to clean up. Oops. Excuse me. She
bumped into a lady. Are you ok. Yeh! Sure. Kelly walked three block as everyone
starred at her. Since she was such a mess. People kept asking if she was ok. She
got home on the bus. She threw her sundress in the washer, showered. Redressed
and fell asleep on the coach.
--I like to lick the shitty bits off Cmdr Tacos crusty ass
String theory answers this perfectly.
Can't remember where I heard it, but there is a story about a Physics exam...
A group of tourists is being taken around the Physics department of a major university, and one tourist is puzzled by a long document mounted in a glass case in the foyer that they pass on the way in. When the tour ends in the same foyer, he asks the guide about the document.
``That's our exam,'' he is told.
Stunned, he asks, ``What? Don't you change the questions every year? Don't people just read it and cheat?''
``Well, no...'' the guide responds, ``we have a much better system. We only change the answers.''
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
- In June we got the news from the Sudbury Neutrino Oscilloscope that from the detection rates of muon-type and electron-type neutrino's coming from the Sun we should conclude that neutrinos oscillate (change type) and are therefore massive, which is in full contradiction with the SM.
- In March this year the results of the 1999 data of the muon g-2 measurement at Brookhaven National Laboratory showed that the (anomalous) magnetic moment of the muon is not described correctly by the SM. This 'magnetic moment' indicates how much the spin of a muon is affected by a magnetic field (a bit like how quickly a compass needle reacts to a new orientation of the compass). This measurement generated lots of theoretical ideas for mods of the SM and/or signs of supersymmetry and what not.
- The Standard Model is ugly.
And I am now probably also failing to mention other important failures of the SM.If, on the other hand, you try to tell them that something they do think they know is flat-out wrong, they'll eat you alive.
Actually general relativity was in part inspired by Mach's principle, which basically asks the question - in a universe with nothing in it other than a single sphere, does it make any sense to consider that sphere to be rotating? Since there's nothing there to measure the rotation against, can you claim with equal validity that the sphere isn't rotating at all? Mach (IIRC) stated that the only way for this to make sense was that rotation could only be considered as being relative to the entire Universe.
Unfortunately for Einstein GR didn't really answer the question.
I think you're thinking of the Michelson-Morley experiment to measure the speed of light both when the Earth was moving towards and away from the source. This was a lot of the impetus for special relativity, not general relativity.
ddddda 32432 fsf sf
This month's Popular Science has an article about the same thing. Fermilab and CERN are working to expose the Higgs Boson. The article is here.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
I'm absolutely positive it's Ockham's razor.
(quote) This is the beauty of science. If something doesn't work out the way it was supposed to, if a theory doesn't fit with the cold, hard data, the majourity of scientists will go out of their way to fix the theory (not the data). (end quote)
Some of the particle modeling techniques are getting so complex that they are practically becoming a programming language in their own right. In otherwords, all they have to do is change the "algorithm" of their model to make it fit.
String theory has something like 11 dimensions. That is a lot of wiggle room.
Perhaps the universe is like this: a complex machine with a DNA-like core and complex processes chomping on such DNA.
On the other hand, the actual machinary may turn out to actually be simple, but nobody is "getting it" yet, instead tinkering with their complex model like an amature programmer dinks with code 'til it works as wanted.
Table-ized A.I.