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This is IT?
Dave (picked at random) and 8000 other slashdot readers wrote in to tell us that they too had been overcome by the relentless hype machine that is IT, Ginger, Segway, whatever. Read about IT in your favorite hype-dispensing media outlet, each of which thinks that it has an exclusive on the story of IT. Flash diagram of IT. Time. NY Times. Reuters. And don't forget to watch the advertisement, errr, "demonstration" of IT on Good Morning Consumers tomorrow. Update: 12/03 13:37 GMT by T : Segway's webmaster John Grohol points out the segway website as well.
The southpark version was hilarious
"Well atleast its better than dealing with the airlines"
"Nothing has happened at the level of the pedestrian to improve transportation since we invented the sneaker..." Really. Firstly, once on wheels, can the driver be considered a "pedestrian?" Secondly, what about bicycles, scooters, and the like. I'm sure there is some incredible technology going on there, but the arrogance seems much more powerful.
It may be hyped but it could be a breakthrough. At any rate it is something that interests us as geeks. Stories about this broke on friday or maybe before and you have been getting thousands of submissions on the subject. It took you until tonight to actually post it. Hi, I don't know if you know tons of people think things are neat that you may not, but it is true. So if you get lots of posts on something then maybe it is worth posting.
Wasn't there a thing named IT in an episode of South Park? Mr. Garrison was pissed at airline companies and invented his own form of transportation involing a gyroscope and an anal probe.
*shrug*
The most important part of this is the "just think about stopping" part, the advanced system that mimics human movement.
While I predict this will be at BEST a fad, we can now finally take the core technology and start building robotic war mecha.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
What a load of hype. So the Segway has no engine or brakes, but it has motors. So, it uses gyros and the motors to maintain stability/locomotion (doing away with the throttle), and it uses a wrist control to go left/right. The motors must use regenerative braking to stop and recharge the batteries. Looks like the Segway is an imaginative, very high-tech, very expensive.... electric scooter.
Hmm... If the Segway is allowed on sidewalks, there would be instant competition in the form of conventional electric scooters. They wouldn't be anywhere near as cool, but they also wouldn't cost $3000 or more. And, they'd run longer since they would not need to expend juice to feed the gyros and microcontrollers.
Negative:
Another thing to make Americans more lazy. I mean come on if you cant bring yourself to walk the 25 feet between your living room and bathroom to take a leak, you should be shot. 7 deadly sins - sloth.
Positive:
Necessity breeds innovention. If your 500lbs boss cant seem to walk the distance between his/her limo and office then use Ginger!!!! Think of all the pain on his/her knee joints.
My sig (if i could remember my login): Je m'en fiche!
It just be super-revolutionary,but do we all really beleive Steve Job's comment that "cities will be built around it?" taking a looking at Time's 'scoop', i find that hardly possible.
And it was in part spoofing the original IT stories. It was a good episode, well worth watching. As far as I'm concerned, their comments about air travel were dead on ("Will people go through that just to get around?" "It's still better than dealing with the airlines" "Oh... Yeah... Yeah...")
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Please don't insult Linux, this is Slashdot after all!
Steve Jobs has seen it and he said it would change the world. Remember the last time he said that? He was introducing the iMac.
"It looks gay."
Frankly, I don't see how this is possible. As an 'IT', it is neither male nor female and is thus not capable of homosexual activity.
Anyone got a better idea what this is about?
No Engine?
Why do I suddenly feel like Homer?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Apparently, balance is attained with the help of sensors and logic boards and powerful electric motors. I think it'll be fun to watch an IT malfunction (perhaps as a result of a bug in the firmware) or run out of juice while someone is riding it. Will she fall forwards or backwards? In any case, I am sure it will be a very characteristic and, after a while, instantly recognizable motion. IT will be the high-tech version of the banana peel -- instant laugh for everybody who's watching at that fateful moment.
When I look at the hype surrounding this thing, it reminds me of Transmeta. Transmeta had some of the world's brightest computer geeks working on a s3kr1t pr0j3k+ that would change the world, and it turned out to be yet another x86 clone (whoo hoo.) Now there is another company with bright scientists working on a s3kr1t pr0j3k+ that would change the world, and it turns out to be a motorscooter. (whoo hoo.)
Moral of the story: Don't believe the hype.
..you gotta admit, it could solve some real problems in big cities. Kamen's genius lies not only in his engineering, but in his realistic viewpoint. He knows that, except for the early adopter crowd, people aren't going to want these. However, that won't matter. If you read the Time article, he tells you straight up that he's going to focus on postal carriers, police, etc. first. Once Ginger is proven in those capacities, people will want one. Also note that he's seeing it as a middle ground commute vehicle. I personally would've shelled out the money to be able to be in traffic with a Ginger instead of my pig of a car that takes so much space and had a payload of exactly 1 person. (And don't even get me started on car pooling; what a frickin waste of time!)
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
This thing is not for rich suburban white guys who hang out on internet all day. Its for postmen and chinamen. Ever been to a crowded asian city? What a nightmare. The elites will definitaly prefer a Segway to other vehicles. The american consumer is probably the last market for this thing.
This thing is probably expensive and weighs a ton. Oooh, it stands up on its own, how have I lived without it! If you want an electric personal transportation device, TH!NK about one of these instead.
Apparently this uses less power than that would.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
I must admit that I'm fairly disappointed by "IT". I was somehow hoping for giant war mecha or something of that type. I don't know...an electric scooter like this just lacks something...especially after all this hype. Reading through the posts here, I can see that most of you are in agreement with me. However, I really think we're missing the point. Steve Jobs could be right.
We Americans have never really been very much interested in public transportation. Trains, busses, subways...they all take second place to our cars. Our nice, inefficient, polluting cars. Now then, could you imagine if these things genuinely cought on? Imagine having our cities interconnected with high-speed railways, not highways. Imagine replacing all the roads in our cities with smaller pedestrian walkways, populated with people on Segways. Imagine how much less polution there would be, how much less noise would be generated, and how much less space would be wasted.
Yeah, I know...I'm still waiting for my flying cars and giant robots...but this could actually be useful technology.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
You say it is "just a scooter". That is like calling the automobile just a "horseless carriage." It's just the closest concept you have to fit. As far as hype, Kamen tried to downplay the "hype" none of which was advertisement, but statements "taken out of context" from the likes of Jobs and Metcalfe (you know the guy who said linux would "fade away"). Can't you see that a vehicle which uses Dynamic Stability to be driven as an extension of your own body movements is a great innovation? What the hell happened to Slashdot, where putting linux on the dreamcast is cool, just because it can be done, yet the Segway is "just a scooter." What the hell?
My street is 45mph, it only does 17mph. I only live 5 miles from work, but we dont have bike lanes or sidewalks for me to use it. Most of the people at work live 20+ miles, not doable. And my laptop bag is too heavy to carry that far.
Really, the only thing I could use it for is short trips to the store, but where would I carry my groceries?
Before I could use it daily, need the roads to have bike lanes, and I need to carry a payload.
While Dean Kamen's Segway scooter is an interesting technological achievement, I have two concerns:
1. Because using Segway is so unlike anything out there in terms of personal transportation devices, the reseller better really teach people how to use it correctly. I have visions of clueless Segway riders crashing into other pedestrians and larger vehicles because they're not used to how to stop this scooter.
2. The US$3,000.00 cost for the personal version is way too expensive, IMHO. Kamen should seriously talk with the one company that produce a Segway-like scooter at a reasonable cost: Honda. Using its motorcycle and electric vehicle expertise, Honda could build such a scooter for US$1,800.00 or less per scooter.
Go to www.segway.com and you'll get the standard IE "This page cannot be displayed" form with all sorts of helpful advice on why it can't.
Which is all well and good, except I am using Omniweb. Damn that freaked me out.
Let the conspiracy theories begin!
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
The question is do the gyros keep balence, or help to power the thing?
You can get a lot of energy going in gyro. Just think of the spinners in Battlebots. They have more powerfull hits than about anything else in the arena.
From the Time article it sounded to me more like he was using a gyroscopic motion as a form of momentum. I just can't think of how he translates that into ground friction, or beter yet got rid of most ground friction.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
Not just a scooter, but similar. with computer controls to slow down the boss and allow you to track them
I guess we'll just have to see it to "get it". From everything I see, there is a big cooness factor involved. And I gues it doesn't have an engine. which makes me say "HUH?!"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Now that's a scary picture
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Damn it, I was hoping for a child-eating clown
While "it looks gay" might not be the best way of phrasing it, this may very well be what Mr. and Mrs. Joe Consumer say. Here in style concious New York, where this thing *should* have a decent chance of acceptance, nobody's going to want one, because it's looks like a combination push mower/razor scooter. Frankly, if I saw someone one one, my reaction would be "what a tool," same as if i saw someone on a motorized razor. They just look kind of awkward. Maybe it's just because of society, but it looks way less natural than a bicycle, which is about the most awkward means of transportation that most adults will allow for. Appearance is everything. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Actually, I'm really surprised.
I would have expected a lot more acceptance from the other readers of Slashdot. Or maybe it is simply a case of the "Slashdot Syndrome". (that would be not reading the entire article before you post.)
This is amazing technology!
From the Time article:
"Lean forward, go forward; lean back, go back; turn by twisting your wrist. The experience is the same going uphill, downhill or across any kind of terrain--even ice. It is nothing like riding a bike or a motorcycle. Instead, in the words of Vern Loucks, the former chairman of Baxter International and a Segway board member, "it's like skiing without the snow."
I don't know how many of you have ever been snow skiing, but it is amazing! There is a reason it's so popular.
Also from the article:
"Cars are great for going long distances," Kamen says, "but it makes no sense at all for people in cities to use a 4,000-lb. piece of metal to haul their 150-lb. asses around town."
This is so true! We are so wasteful as a nation in this way. It makes absolutely no sense!
Again, from the article:
"...Dean Kamen...The 50-year-old son of a comic-book artist, he is a college dropout, a self-taught physicist and mechanical engineer with a handful of honorary doctorates, a multimillionaire who wears the same outfit for every occasion: blue jeans, a blue work shirt and a pair of Timberland boots." and "But if Kamen's personality is half Willy Wonka, the other half is closer to Thomas Edison. While he was still struggling in college, Kamen invented the first drug-infusion pump, which enabled doctors to deliver steady, reliable doses to patients. In the years that followed, he invented the first portable insulin pump, the first portable dialysis machine and an array of heart stents, one of which now resides inside Vice President Dick Cheney."
This guy is a hackers hacker! Give the guy a break. I'll be the first to say it (on Slashdot anyway) I think it's going to be a huge hit!
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
The flash presentation makes an interesting claim on the motors:
"Two of them drive each wheel independently. Fully redundant. If one fails, the other takes over."
I would like to see this.
Also claims to have 5 Gyro's that "operate by commitee, voting among themselves to eliminate errent readings"
Would this device work in Florida?
But, it's not just due to the need to be dry that I dismiss the "revolutionary" hype surrounding this toy -- it's the fact that people already arrange their lives around the automobile. In LA the average commute is 30 mins (which must be grossly skewed by people working from home, because it is nigh-impossible to go anywhere in LA in 30 minutes). People work in central areas but live in increasingly-remote housing areas. As a matter of fact, the fasest growing region in the country is the Inland Empire, a smog-filled, hot-as-hell snake pit (lovely place) east of LA. But the house prices are very low compared to the "beach cities". It's the automobile that makes this commute possible. So, tell me how many people are going to forgo an automobile, with it's creature comforts and potential for travelling a fast speeds, for an 8 mile-an-hour gyroscoping pogo-stick? You'd have to not merely redesign cities but reverse the suburbanization of America to make this a widely-used device. Too many people have invested the next 30 years of income into their home in the (hellish as they may be) suburbs.
And Alan would point out man solved the balance problem long before the gyroscope by adding another wheel. Low tech, but effective.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
But this could actually mean the *end* of the razor scooter.
*BUDUM-CHING!*
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Electric Scooter $3000 or $600 Bike + $2400 Beer.
IT = 8MPH, Bike = 15MPH
IT = no excersize, Bike = 300+ Cal/hr
IT = No beer, Bike 2400 micro brew or 4800 Bud/MGD
IT = requires power, Bike = burn off beer gut (see above)
-- http://frobnosticate.com
Note that there's nothing exciting here on the powerplant front; you get a choice of NiCd or nickel-metal-hydride batteries. And it doesn't climb stairs; Kamen patented a stair-climbing version, but that's not what's being shown now.
Whether this will catch on remains to be seen. Powered scooters, rollerblades, and skateboards perform much the same role more cheaply.
Balancing with two cross-track wheels leads to some wierd situations. For one thing, to stop fast, you have to speed up to move the CG back, then decelerate. So it's probably a "lean back to slow down" thing, rather than one with a throttle-like control. Stopping distance may be a problem. And I look forward to seeing how Kamen handles wheel slip.
The business plan depends on some big delivery service buying the thing. But for that, you'd like something that can carry packages.
Seriously... it's an interesting piece of tech, but I'll take my bike anyday.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I think all the people who are saying "electric scooter, big whoop. $3,000, yeah right" are slightly missing the point. Yeah, it's kind of wimpy for the price tag. Yeah, it's kind of expensive, and it's questionable who would want to use it.
But this is just the first model. It's more sort of a proof of concept--a demonstration that the scooter can work, and looks as neat as all get-out in motion. As time goes on, the performance will improve and the price will fall.
Look at the Palm (Pilot). The first model was, what, 128K? With no backlight, no infra-red, or anything? And how high was the price tag? And now the Visor Deluxe, which was at one time the wet dream of anybody who even looked at a Palm, is only $130 brand new.
Look at the DVD player. The original models were expensive enough, the first bunch of discs were glitchy enough, that a lot of people scoffed and made snide remarks. But the DVD went on to become the fastest-adopted new consumer technology ever.
So here we have a relatively slow, electric-powered self-stabilizing scooter, for $3,000. Are very many of us going to buy it? Do very many of us have the money to sink into that sort of gee-gaw? No and no. I know I'm not going to be spending three grand on something like that myself, either. Nor would I be likely to spend two grand, or even one grand.
But by the time it gets to about $500, sign me up.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Every once in a while for the past couple of months, I'd come across some tiny blurb about "the much-hyped (IT|Ginger)". But these blurbs, which seemed to be few and far between, primarily dealt with the "hype" surrounding this thing. They would have been a sort of meta-hype, except that there weren't even enough of those articles to constitute anything more than a sort of collective raised eyebrow.
There wasn't even a concerted effort to be mysterious about it, as far as I can tell. Nobody was saying much, and nobody much cared when it did come up.
So now I'm supposed to believe that this scooter thing was made out to be the next Sliced Bread, that everyone was quivering in anticipation, and that rumours have been swirling for months about its mysterious nature? Bullshit, we've barely heard of it. This is a strange sort of revisionist history indeed.
Or maybe I just don't go to the same parties that Time reporters do.
Quite frankly, I'd prefer the version envisioned by Modern Humorist.
I mean, it looks cool and all, and I'd love to try one, but I can't see myself using one to get to work. My feet have been working so far, and this would probably be dangerous. I have visions of "Gingerites" constantly running into old people... The office I work in is next door to a casino, so there's no shortage of those around here.
What gets me is the price - $3k for an electric scooter! Come on! For the same price you can get something that's a much nicer toy (the Kawasaki Ninja 250R has a retail price of $2,999, gets over 70mpg, does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, and you won't look like a complete dork while riding one). Can you say 'Sinclair C5' all over again?
Being a bicyclist, I am partial to light, fast, cheap transportation. The Segway appears to be none of these. It is expensive, a brute-force solution to a non-problem IMHO. That's why I, at least, am underwhelmed.
Then again, I dislocated my shoulder last week on my bicycle while avoiding traffic. Maybe I can ride it again tomorrow, maybe not, but it has been quite painful and made it much harder to run errands around town (take the time to run an errand on a bike and double it; you've just arrived at the time to complete it, driving, if it's in downtown DC and you have to park). This device would make such injuries irrelevant. I'm sure it would be wonderful for elderly or infirm people who can't drive. So perhaps I am an "able-ist" in that I am biased to think about things as if I'll always be hale and healthy.
If the product is made affordable, it would be a lot nicer and less intrusive than a Lark or a Rascal for sure. But I don't see it as being quite as revolutionary as the car, simply because it does not radically increase carrying capacity, doesn't really offer commercially compelling advantages over a regular scooter, pair of feet, or a bicycle to balance out the cost... I don't see how this device would change the world for the average mope, but for some people it sounds like a godsend.
Attenuate your expectations, as this Dean Kamen seems to be telling us, and in context it is pretty neat. Not earth-shattering, but pretty neat, alright.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
Yeah, I was one of the faceless posters that spammed /. about the unveiling of IT tomorrow morning, and got my story axed like everyone else. As stated somewhere above, if this many people keep posting about it, then why the fuck wouldn't the news-mongers of Slashdot post it sooner? And why the hell does everyone want to immediately bash the damn thing? Are you really that pissed that it's been over-hyped? I haven't heard anything about it since the first of the year, and had actually forgotten about it until the SouthPark episode the other week.
/.'ers don't either). It worries me that if this does catch on, will we all become bigger fatasses if we stop walking everywhere? I think there's more implications than just changing the world of transportation (if it really does go that far)...
I for one would love to at least try one of these out--looks like it may be fun. The price is way to high for me, and probably for the rest of America for quite some time. On the other hand, I'd like to consider the fact that I don't get much exercise as is (and probably most
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
That brings one thing to mind.
"You like-a the juice?"
This thing is a hacker's dream. It looks quite modern - microprocessors, firmware, etc. Not purely mechanical. The speed limit is set by the circuitry -- which means it is all hackable.
Imagine programming one of these things to spin you around, then accelerate to breakneck speed (perhaps literally) This could be quite fun!
What Dean seems not to have realized is that although a segway would be useful in some cities, it won't be to any in America that I can think of. He intended it to replace the car for in-city commuting. But the problem with cars in-city is not from people residing within it - it's from all the people commuting to and from the city. The fact is, most people either live in the suburbs and commute all over the place by car, or in a few cases (New York especially) live in the city and commute by walking and public transportation. The segway is not in competition with the walker or the car, but the bike - a cheaper, faster, healthier, more flexible (try hauling a 60lb segway up stairs) and more environmentally responsible way of getting around. The segway might have some uses for certain industries and age groups, and it will probably go over better in Europe and especially Japan, but here in the states there's not much point to it.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
From what I read in that article, the issue of security is still not completely addressed. :-(
I think as the units get lighter (I'm sure with the use of improved and lighter metal alloys and/or composites they could shave about 15-20 pounds off the current 65 pound weight), such a scooter could be light enough to be hand-carried inside a building to your office cubicle.
I had my heart set on it being a twin-turbine personal helicopter :) funny thing is, I had this all worked out to the point where you could damned near build one, all on the basis that Steve Jobs et al wouldn't be fools enough to go ga-ga over a powered scooter.
I'll give 'em this much though: yes, designing cities without cars WILL eventually be necessary. Yes, that will be interesting and challenging and different. But I thought it had to be a lot more exciting, and pulled together loads of detail such as recent developments in titanium production, the capacity of (highly efficient) jet turbines to route their intake and exhaust in very counterintuitive ways, the geometry of a twin-ducted-fan standing platform and how this would be essentially stable and would require hard leaning to get it to move quickly- and even then, wind resistance on the high-mounted fans would mean that the machine would be trying to slow itself at all times, its CG located very low because a human would be standing on the base and their CG would be irrelevant, the orientation of the device would follow the centering effect of the human's weight delivered through the feet...
The only thing even vaguely like this would be the SoloTrek, and just think for a second of how much heavier _that_ monster is than a person- it's really just a mini helicopter, not even the balance issues would apply. As such, so much of its awful power and noise etc. is required simply to lift its own weight, and how much better it would be to use titanium and minimal, balance-oriented controls to make something so feather-light that it's barely heavier than a person, far more capable of urban use...
To top it all off, turbines are ideally suited for just _one_ speed, which is an ideal match for a heli-type device as it would be devoting pretty much every bit of its energy just to hovering, with no engines whatsoever for lateral motion- that would be strictly a matter of leaning in the desired direction like you were in a hang-glider. All this is just _waiting_ to be done, and Kamen has the resources to do it _and_ a background not only in aviation but in helicopters. It seemed so obvious.
Oh well...
You said:
Actually, if the Segway IT were allowed on sidewalks, there would be instant lawsuits, courtesy of conventional injury lawyers. Forget about skateboarders running into old ladies -- IT is gonna be great! "Call 1-800-ITHURTS!" :->
It's also not clear where you are supposed to use these things. Using them in traffic seems more unsafe than a bicycle (since you are even less visible and have even less protection in front of you), but riding anything motorized at 15mph on the sidewalk seems both rude and dangerous. And these things are too slow for bicycle lanes.
A cynic might say that this is simply an attempt to boost sales of one of Kamen's other technologies: automatic insulin pumps, since obesity is the leading cause of diabetes.
I can't believe some of you can't realize how this can effect travel.
There's no reason to drive 3000lbs of metal around on fuel that comes from the other side of the planet(for some, for the other's it's processed on the other side of the planet).
This thing is intended for cities. When I went to college, I had a transportation dillema. From the dorm room to the college classroom, it took 30 minutes to walk, 30 minutes to drive, 30 minutes to ride public transportation, 15 minutes to ride a bicycle, and maybe 10 to ride a motorcycle. This thing would do the job in ten, or less.
It's not large, so you can fit many in one place. You might be able to ride them inside buildings. It can go fast, or slow. It's safer than almost any other form of transportation, and can be enjoyed by a wider audience.
For long distances cars may be work better. Likewise for rainy days. However, city-dwellers experience the effects of both less, making this more useful.
On top of that, you can avoid short bits of bad terrain by hopping off and carrying it to your next bit of (roughly)flat surface.
If just 15% of people started using these for their 1-5 mile travels, you'd see traffic problems in major cities ease.
Many people who live in major cities don't even buy cars. I believe they'd enjoy this quite a bit. Plus, for people who only need to travel 1-5 miles for most things, this might be a better idea.
Or take the 3-person family. Mom and Dad don't drive 14-year-old junior everywhere. Mom and Dad only need one car, because on most days neither drive them to get to work. The car is for the larger grocery runs and trips to grandma's house.
So instead of paying out $30k-$60k for the vehicles, the family pays half to serve the same needs.
Look at suburbia! When I was in High School it was important to know someone who was 16 so that they could drive you around. I was in prison at home. Not any more. Now I could go wherever I needed.
And the need for busses(crowding our roads, carrying our children) will decrease. If the infrastructure is done right, the kids won't need those busses, and we replace bus drivers with a few cops on scooters patrolling the Segway-sidewalks.
A trip to the convenience store takes me 15 minutes. I go to my car and start it up, wait until i think the oil has risen into the engine and coated my precious engine walls, and I drive along the roads, which aren't always well-placed or direct. I find a place to park(if i'm lucky), lock my doors, and go in to get what I want. I leave to get back into my car, try to get out of the parking lot with traffic coming at 45-60 mph, and get on the road, weaving round a not-so-direct path back home. this one-mile-each-way drive would be 5-10 minutes on the segway, 15 in the car.
When the segway hits the sidewalks, we will realize that it is actually easier to go about most daily travels on it, rather than in a car.
rhadc
I don't think so. The Segway and scooter serve the same purpose, and get the job done with negligible difference in method and results from a users perspective. A carriage, on the other hand, lacks a mile-long list of features that a car has.
It's just the closest concept you have to fit.
Yes, and beyond technology, which is irrelevant from a users point of view, how is this any different from a scooter?
Can't you see that a vehicle which uses Dynamic Stability to be driven as an extension of your own body movements is a great innovation?
Yes, its an innovation, but is it an advancement or just a cool hack thats too costly to be commercially viable? Most seem to think the latter.
Take a eueropean veiwpoint for once and imagine everywhere is like downtown new york. The big deal about this device is it lets you move four times faster but it dosnt take up anymore space than your body normally would. Get rid of the cars and all the sudden you have tons of room and no more traffic and no more parking. This is like a solution to the "last mile" problem of subways. Subways work great for getting around to most places but you still have to do like half a miles worth of walking to get to a terminal then to get to where your going from the terminal you stop at in most cases. If you've never been to a city with foot traffic like new york the best way to think of it is that everyday you have to do the equivalent of traversing the mall to several stores. All that walking back and forth blah blah etc. etc.
I would think the only deterant to this thing will be how heavy it is for when you finally have to pick it up and use your feet and how long the batteries will last.
You have to wonder though if something like this became common how pathetic will we become physically. It's getting quite common that the only exercise a lot of people get is walking they do in their daily day to day stuff. What would happen if they loose even that? Better get your kids in the habit of doing exercise now it might become even more valuable of a habit than it already is.
Jartan
I do live in a city.
A city I share with frigging idiots who insist on riding bikes, skateboards, scooters, and rollerblades on the sidewalk, treating pedistrians as a living and moving obstacles in their own private amusement ride.
This technology is neat, and yes, in some cases, it could be useful. I used to work in a warehouse where it took several minutes to walk the entire distance on the building. We had these things that were essentially golf carts that employees and especially supervisors would use to get around. They were expensive and hard to drive in the narrow confines of the shelving.
But translating this thing into a serious commuting tool is going to be difficult. Will it ride on the sidewalks? I'd certainly not want to share the sidewalks with these things. They are called side*walks* for a reason. Even having people jogging down them can be dangerous.
Bike lanes are a possibility, but they are usually ignored by drivers as far as I can see. In Europe, I suspect the situation is better... but not where I live.
Jobs' quote about "cities will haev to be redesigned for this" is close to the mark. These things don't fit well in an urban landscape, as is the case with other similar transport methods. Users of alternative transport means have to either brave traffic that can squash them, or endanger pedestrians who are simply trying to walk to where they are going. Ginger, for all of its techno-glitter, doesn't solve this fundamental problem.
I was wondering about the learning curve, like I'm trying to keep my balance, and Segway is trying to keep my balance and we get into a violent feedback loop. Then I read Grove was rolling slowly along when Doerr ambled over and pushed him in the chest. When the Segway kept him from losing his balance, Grove emitted a distinctly un-Grove-like giggle.
Now I'm wondering if we can apply the technology to bicycles, windsurfers, skates, etc. Now that would be awesome: In-line skates that act like Segway.
A major question is how heavy IT is (for lugging up and down steps and over bumps), and also how awkward IT is to store when not needed (at the office, say). The lawyers for businesses likely would have hissy fits about liability for injuries, so I can't see IT being allowed that quickly into most large office suites or complexes (or even factories), at least not without some non-trivial consideration of liability issues and rules of conduct.
Given the price, IT'd be a major target for theft. How will IT be secured outside while the owner is temporarily inside an office or store? How would a 7-11 manager react to a punk teenager wanting to scoot around in his cramped store on an IT? Suppose the scooter is an old lady or other disabled individual who can't get around without a wheelchair or (perhaps) a modified IT? Will the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) make it hard to refuse such an old lady her in-store scooting, even in an antique glass and china shop?
There are a number of such interesting, ancillary issues to consider, arising from the apparent possible "universality" of such devices.
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
They're mirroring (using apache) a page hosted with ISS. not a big deal.
they think electicity grows on trees
As for weather, here in the Midwest we occasionally use outerware to mitigate the effects of the elements on our epidermis. That comes highly recommended. And your mom told me you should wear a hat, too.
I believe (but haven't seen for myself) that most businesses today are currently wired for "electricity" available at convenient locations we call "outlets". And a space the size of one car-parking spot can probably hold one or maybe up to two of the Segway behemoths.
I really get disappointed when people who are smart in one area
1. How many people live close enough to work that they can afford the time to communte on a device that moves at walking speed? (no one I know)
That's what public transportation is for. You get on your Segway, go to the bus station, get on, and instead of a hectic drive, you can do some homework or check your email while you commute. Then, when you get where you're going, you hop back on the Segway and ride to work. No walking neccessary.
2. How many people live in places where the weather is neither too warm or too cold to spend the time outside?
Lots, but there are such things as jackets and T-shirts, you know. People successfully manage to walk or bike around as it is now.
3. How many businesses have the infrastructure to handle storing and charging these things?
I assume it will be carryable. As for charging, the article says that the batterys will plug into a normal wall socket.
4. Is it really going to share the sidewalk with pedestrians? Where are they going to go now?
They can get a Segway, or get the fuck out of my way. Bikes manage.
5. What about security? Riding around on a $3000 device that can't move faster than walking speed is a huge crime oppurtunity.
Bike locks will be adapted, and maybe even a key system like cars have.
Probably you'll just bring it into your work building with you, and have it near at all times! Store it in your cubicle!
Why is it that the typical Slashdotter's comment is so negative?
To me, it's a cool invention. I want one. Will I spend $3,000 on one? Most likely not. But of course, that is just the introductory price.
Amazing magic tricks
Well, this first implementation goes up to 8 miles an hour (or about 3 times walking speed). Watch for a subsequent version, with a better power source, that goes much faster... (evil grin)
How many people live in places where the weather is neither too warm or too cold to spend the time outside?
Put on some warm clothes and stop whining... geez, you people!
How many businesses have the infrastructure to handle storing and charging these things?
It'll be easier to store than a bicycle, which businesses handle well enough now using bike racks and such. Unlike a bike, it would be easy to bring into the office and store by your desk. As far as charging it goes, that's what electrical outlets are for. According to the article, it doesn't take very much electricity to recharge it.
Is it really going to share the sidewalk with pedestrians? Where are they going to go now?
Not sure about that... bike lanes would probably be a good place for this type of vehicle. (what? your city has no bike lanes? Well this is just the excuse they need to add some!
What about security? Riding around on a $3000 device that can't move faster than walking speed is a huge crime oppurtunity.
Perhaps, but no worse than a bicycle really.
And, unfortunately, this cool device is not "IT"
No, it's not the be-all and end-all, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Don't forget that there will be subsequent refinements to the technology.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
ay, and Gomorrah
Remember last years claim that IT was "bigger than the Internet"? In retrospect, it very well may be, but so were the hula hoop and the Pet Rock, and the clip on tie...
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
How many people do you know that can drive cars?
How many people do you know that have the skill to navigate motorized scooters through traffic? Much less, I'd assume
Now, how many people do you know that would want a transportation system on par in terms of speed, cost, and efficiency with bikes and motorized scooters, with the safety and ease of use of using cars? I think this is a large market, and is exactly what Kamen is going for.
--
Amongst the great quotes:
I live in NYC. In the 5 boroughs something like this would be great. Places like Hong Kong, downtown London, Chicago, small cities in Italy, any REAL city where people actually walk around, this would be great.
Places like LA, Phoenix, suburban Long Island where there are no pedestrians anyway would not be suitable for this.
The TIME article said that speeds of 3-4 times walking speed would be normal.
In NYC bike messengers already get around the city faster than cars. I see doctors and 60 year old women go through the Village on those Razor scooters. Parking spaces cost more to rent per month than whole houses do in other parts of the country. I go weeks without driving now and didn't own a car until I moved out of NYC temporarily for a few years. Cars in NYC are evil and most people avoid them. A reliable, speedy machine that takes up about the same space as a person would be very welcome.
As for price, Give it 5 or 10 years and it will be down around a few hundred dollars. In the expensive bike range. Not to mention the used market.
Of course by then GM or Ford will get into the market and we will have SUV Gingers that weigh 10 tons, run on gasoline and have ostrich skin leather heated bucket seats.
IT was already invented by Johnny Hart, author of the comic strip BC. The prior art is plainly visible in the upper right hand corner of this picture, has been available for quite some time, and appears regularly in newspapers and online.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It's pretty difficult to ride a bike or a scooter whilest intoxicated. Driving a car is illegal and stupid. So how about riding a Segway drunk? It has balancing technology that allows it to not tip over. They need to do some testing. What I suggest is take someone to a local bar, get them wasted, and see what happens. I would gladly volunteer :)
I do think that this is a great invention and I think it has a lot of potential to take off in cities like Tokyo and such....
> It looks gay
:)
Well if they use the same design I saw in southpark, it will ACT gay too
> As an 'IT', it is neither male nor female and is thus not capable of homosexual activity
How would you call the female IT version? SHE-IT?
oh wait...
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Like many have stated already, this seems to be for those who don't want the cost/responsibility/pollutoin of a car but don't want to actually expend enough energy to use a bicycle or walk.
However, a low-power, effective gyro assembly coupled with a recumbent bicycle would definately be something I would look into, at least for use in the warmer months. When you factor in that the price of a good recumbent is about $1200 USD, plus maybe $300 more for the accessories you want/need (safety, people!), you would still have $1500 left to add in a gyro assembly and match the price of the whoseewhatzit.
I've been on a few recumbants, and I can tell you, if you are reasonably healthy they can move you pretty damn quick. The biggest issue I and most other people have is getting used to the new "balancing vectors" so to speak that recumbents require. Plus, you can actually get a cargo hitch for those camping trips or cross-country adventures, which also addresses those concerns about not being able to bring groceries home on a scooter.
Also, can't wait until hooks an Xbox up to one of these, and makes a twirling, tightrope-walking Beowolf cluster of these, and yada yada yada...
Green-voting, republican-registered, socialist-libertarian.
no its not...it does not even have an engine...it runs on s frigen 9V battery to run the balancing system
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
>Why the HELL would you live anywhere where it gets to -40 degrees?!?!?!
:)
;)
I dunno.
Maybe its because:
- There's no DMCA there.
- You can "steal" satellite TV and the cops will help you do it (if you offer them a beer).
- For at least a few more days we'll be more free than the US.
- You can legally go to a friends house and copy his entire CD collection.
- Moving there now gets you twice the bux!
- They don't fry you no matter how bad you are! (this is good and bad depending on your position)
- You can't disco in a touque!
- 4
- Our heads separate into two pieces!
- You don't need to avoid nuts on scooters all day.
- You get fingercise rotating products to read the english side.
- You don't need to lock your car if its frozen shut.
- Computer parts are dirt cheap.
- Vous ne worry pas about votre leader starting wars if dey can't speak dat international language.
- Beer!
- Pitou!
- CBC!
Then again, I suppose he could be from Alaska.
Nahhh.
A segway weighs 60lbs and is wider than a human. It is not a very luggable device. And you're going to bring that on a bus? (subway, train, whatever)
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Its almost the 2002! I was promised flying cars. Where are the flying cars?
He also owns an island off the coast of Connecticut. He calls it North Dumpling, and he considers it a sovereign state. It has a flag, a navy, a currency (one bill has the value of pi) and a mutual nonaggression pact with the U.S., signed by Kamen and the first President Bush
I don't care what "IT" is, Kamen owns an island with a monetary denomination of pi!
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
Initial implications for this device begin at the private sector. Imagine a mail carrier being able to strap on a pack and make a run in half as much time, going across sidewalks, dirt, grass, gravel, etc. Mail carriers at large corporations would be able to use this to get across larger buildings. Security guards could quickly and efficiently make their rounds, making it easier to put more rounds in a night. Park rangers could more easily get from point to point in a park. There are implications for airports, and any long walk areas that have the need for getting a certain percentage of people from point a to b quickly. Think about areas normally patrolled by officers on horseback or rollerblade or bicycle and just introduce segway/IT. Replace every oversized golfcart on a factory line that the management uses to shuffle from place to place inside.
For the public, there are schools/colleges where you might have classes on oposite ends of the campus, making it difficult to get books and then get to class on time making you carry a double load most of the day. For the infirm/elderly/disabled it would allow them to once again go for a "walk" in the park with their family/friends. It would allow people who are temporary disabled (casts, sprained ankles, etc.) to not need to slowly hobble everywhere they go. It will help the asthmatic who doesn't have the endurance to go on a hike with his friends to finally enjoy the outdoors like others. It would allow those already so damned lazy they can't walk two blocks to the store to not have to get in their car to go get something.
Notice any key theme in the above? Outdoors? Not just some punk ass kid (which we all were/are at some time) on a "scooter" bumping into you making you spill your latte, or noisily flying down the street on his gas powered scooter interrupting your nightly viewing of "Friends". Look at the design of this machine, large tires, self-balancing, automatic shutoff and speed control safety features, this is a standup ATV. Even if it has say only 30 minutes of battery life that's 4 miles at top speed (I'm assuming). Many people with asthma or cardio/pulminary problems can barely walk a block or two, imagine being able to say you went out for 4 miles. I could almost make it to work on a segway in the same amount of time as it takes me to drive through the traffic, as I'm sure many other people could. Training! Bah! Step on lean forward and go, easy as falling. Safety! Bah! Step off and the device stops dead. Redundancy in computing and drive mechanism means little chance of failure, catostrophic or otherwise. Price! Bah! $8,000 for the "industrial" version $3000 for the commercial version, early adoptors will easily pay. The early adoptors and an increase in chip speed/decrease in chip costs will drive the price down by half within the first year. By Christmas 2003 Korean companies will be selling knockoffs for $250 with fold up chasis and backpack straps. By 2004 they'll come in 15 different colorful shades and be as lame as the jellies, pagers, cell phones, and the backstreet boys.
Or the same people who drove the hype machine to it's heights can sit around an be dissapointed about how this won't change their miserable lives and bad mouth it and destroy yet another perfectly usable worthwhile product. How anyone could sit and bad mouth a man who educated himself, owns his own country (island), and works to do nothing but make the majority of peoples lives better, is just beyond me.
Obviously, the abolitions of cars in cities will have to await the construction of weather-controlling domes over all places of habitation. But this will follow naturally once every fuckwit who invested in this piece of complete shite loses all of his money... oops, I lost my train of thought there.
- Have a picture
This assertion begs several questions (which are extremly relevent to someone living in, say, Austin, where I am):
I too, am in Austin, so hello!
1. How many people live close enough to work that they can afford the time to communte on a device that moves at walking speed? (no one I know)
Did you read the articles? It can move up to three or four times walking speed. Otherwise it would be pointless. Plus I am currently going to UT, and live about 15 minutes away, by walking. This would be a GREAT thing for me, as it would shorten the time down to 5 minutes or less. And it would help MANY people get around in this area, as in many other college campuses or downtowns. You think this wouldn't be of use to people living in downtown high rise apartments all over the world? I'm sure some live on one side of a cities business district, but work on the other. Too far to walk, yet not far enough to warrant the price you pay for gas to drive through traffic.
2. How many people live in places where the weather is neither too warm or too cold to spend the time outside?
With the recent cold spell here in Austin, I had to still walk to class, due to the lack of parking. Same thing applies in many other places. A lot of people are not forced to walk, but do so because it is more efficient. Well, when it gets cold, they are forced to either freeze their tails off or waste gas and time by riving a few miles through traffic. With this thing shortening your time my almost a third, if not more, it would be an excellent alternative. I know I can stand riding around on something for 5 minutes in freezing weather. Just early this week I was walking for 15 minutes in 40 degree weather with a 20 mph wind! And too hot? Thats when a nice 15 mph breeze from you moving on this thing comes in handy!
3. How many businesses have the infrastructure to handle storing and charging these things?
They run on NiCD or NiMH batteries. Again, if you read at least the Times article, you would know it takes $0.05 worth of electricity to completely charge one. And storage? Did you even check out that flash graphic of it? How hard is it to store something that takes up about the same amount of floor space of a persons two feet? Yeah it takes more, but this can easily fit into the corner of a cubicle or office no problem.
4. Is it really going to share the sidewalk with pedestrians? Where are they going to go now?
Again, read the damned article. It says being bumped into by one of these is like being bumped into by a person. And since they can be slowed down, they can move with pedestrians.
5. What about security? Riding around on a $3000 device that can't move faster than walking speed is a huge crime oppurtunity.
Again, read the article. Moves faster. Of course, same thing applies, if you're out at night with one of these, and you get muggged, its your own fault. Be smart.
If his device really is good enought to get rid of cars, it won't be because he SAID so, it will be because he made something that has the same (or better) combination of convinience, speed, economy (both $$ and time), and security as the car. And, unfortunately, this cool device is not "IT".
He didn't say it would get rid of cars. He said it would eventually, if they become as popular as he says, get cities to ban cars from downtowns so these could be taken advantage of. Already many places in many cities you have to walk because cars are off limits.
This is meant to compliment the car, not replace it. Read the article before posting please.
Moderators should too, so they realize that this post is not "insightful" or whatever it was modded up for.
Blake
It's a nice thought, but unfortunately it doesn't work. Many cities and universities have tried yellow-bike type programs (including Austin, where I used to live) and it ends up not working. Much like rental cars, people treat 'em like shit and use 'em like toilet paper. They don't own them, so there's no reason for them to take care of them. The hoard them, they steal them. It's generally not a big deal if all you're using is old crappy bikes, but something that's new - and $3000? Forget it.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Of course, since DEKA's claim to fame is their contributions to medical technology and innovation, the bed you wind up in may well be "It"s uncle. Makes you hope the thing works better than you expect, doesn't it?
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Free 3DO game system and Crystal Pepsi with every purchase!
Seattle is the worst commuter hell in America. They've managed to turn a small collection of suburbs into a traffic snarl. It takes half an hour to go 10 miles on a good day -- and it doesn't have any downtown and no one is outside except for the couple days a year it doesn't rain. There are people that ride bikes and even some who will do it in the rain -- but not for commute, for fun.
>Guy goes and invents something, and gets griped at non-stop.
>No wonder big companies don't try new ideas.
Do you know how many great ideas are out there that never come to surface because of lack of funding?
Do you know how many of them you could bring up to surface with 100M$?
If it wouldn't be for NDA, I could tell you quite a few good ones, using a FRACTION of that amount of money, that will probably change a lot more than IT (but not in the same field).
And the 100M$ is nothing right now, it still looks like a prototype, ramping a factory to build this thing and ramp it up to mass production will require a bit more capital if his cash flow is dried out.
IT's still a good idea, but what pisses the people here is probably the fact that they see ideas like that getting TONS of cash, while they get turned down on their personnal or cooperative projects, or venture capitalists are trying to eat 90% of the company's shares, almost killing them for a second round of financing. 100M$ in my opinion is a lot of money and a LOT of good projects would have seen the light with that kind of money, and while I don't have a crystal ball, I'd bet adding the succesful projects created with that 100M$ fund would outweight what IT has to offer.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Sigh. take a walk and get a wristwatch. You'll stroll at better than three miles an hour, and top five carrying 50 pounds of luggage trying to catch your flight while not trying to look like a terrorist or a Buffalo Bills fan.
(Bias alert: I work with urban planners and transportation engineers, so my own viewpoint is likely skewed as hell, just in a different direction.)
Disruptive elements worth watching:
- Although it might be a macroeconomic edge for any urban area that adopts it, the Segway will really shine in fast-growing, high-density communities in developing nations. Other posts have mentioned it, but the point bears repeating: This is a no-brainer in the high-density cities of the developing world. No, it won't let farmers care for their fields faster and, no, it's not going to do a thing to eliminate the suburban-to-urban commute... but it will reduce infrastructure needs and congestion -- both of which are big-ticket drains on a city's economy.
- Assuming it gets the safety nod, planners and elected city officials are going to love this thing. The former group is pretty monolithic its desire to get people to make "mode changes" (translation: they want us out of the car and on the train/bus/Segway), and the latter are spending billions of dollars across the country to lure people back downtown because they believe density = lower overall cost of services = good. (And yes, luring people back downtown also equates to political power.) I don't know if Steve Jobs is right about cities naturally springing up around this technology, but it's a pretty short hop to think that some cities might dramatically restrict personal auto use in a downtown core if these caught on in a big way.
- The opportunity and use costs upset the existing paradigm. Getting around in a major U.S. city means you have your own car, you hoof it or you use some form of transit -- and, until now, the negatives of fixed-route transit or ridesharing (inflexible!) tended to balance against variable-route solutions such as cabs (pricey!), walking (slow!). The result: People, quite rationally, tend to prefer a personal vehicle for most trips. But now there's another option -- one that may have lower buy-in and use costs.
It will never take the place of cars completely or even mostly, but in cities like Chicago (which is experiencing a huge uptick in downtown residential development), this could be a way to dramatically reduce the number of cars on the street and increase the rate of residential urbanization.Honestly, I never thought a pro-auto, anti-transit guy like me would ever see anything like this.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
Have you ever tried to balance on a scooter? This thing is revolutionary, I tell you.
Buy a small diesel powered vehicle, like a Volkswagon. INSANE fuel efficiency and pretty good performance.
A properly tuned diesel engine is better for the environment than a gasoline powered engine of the same power output.
I am appauled by how most people have reacted to this, both here and on other tech sites. It's amazing that you fools can rip on Kamen, especially after seeing all the other inventions he's done. The iBot is unbelievable.
.. Hello? Anyone home? When was the last time you saw a 35 year old cruising down the street in a metropolitan area on a fucking Razor scooter? The idea here is that these things are going to be efficient, enjoyable, and most of all, EASY to ride on. What the fuck do you think all the gyroscope technology Kamen has been working on for the past 10 years is all about? I'd guess 95% of the idiots here wouldn't even be able to begin to understand how the thing works, especially because they'd be too worried about how they could get l00nix to run on it.
Anyway, for all you imbeciles who keep saying "oh puhleze! How is this any better than my leet raz0r sk00t0r?"
Get your heads out of the sand, for Christs sake. Its not for suburban white kids running leet warez servers who never leave their houses, its for people who are pissed off with having to get in their car to drive a few blocks in the city traffic, for college kids who don't want to walk 5 miles every morning at 8AM to class, and, especially, for developing countires to embrace when they build up their transportation infrastructure.
--
We have highways closed, chain controls, and a request to not travel if we don't have to. I would think twice before taking my Jeep out.
How would "Ginger" play here? Not at all?
Dude, judging by your comments, you were in Redmond, not Seattle. Be fair.
There is a very nice (but small) downtown here, and a number of pedestrian-friendly neighborhoods. Like almost every other city I know of, there are also a lot of low-density suburbs, because Americans do not like to live one on top of each other (this is an observation, not a slam on suburban Americans).
Just the same, I'm a little skeptical. I am trying to imagine taking one of these units from my house on top of Beacon Hill down to the nearest big bus terminal in Chinatown. This involves a mile of steep hills and some very ratty (and crowded!) sidewalks going through the I.D. (the P.C. term for Chinatown). On a bicycle, it's a fairly intense ride. On something with two wheels side-by-side and some gyros to keep it upright? I think i'd be fearing for my life every inch of the way!!!
Maybe when one of my buddies from Amazon brings one around, a field test will allay these fears. In the mean time... don't invest the kids's college fund on these things.
j.
I assure you that it does not look "gay". We design some of the nicest, most fashionable interiors, clothes, and devices you are likely to come across. We dress and undress the champions and heroes of this nation. Something as plain and silly as "IT" must have been designed by a heterosexual.
A lot of people with bikes ride them in winter. It's not that bad if you have the proper clothing. Also the average sprinter is doing something like 22 - 27 mph on a 100m sprint. 5 mph really doesn't count as a sprint, maybe a very very slow jog (I can do 7-8 mph for 60-90 minutes without problems and I'm not very fast).
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If you've got bike lanes, and bikes cost one tenth as much, and you can carry much more stuff on a bicycle, and bicycles go faster, and bicycles give you exercise, and they still won't let you ride it inside the store, why not just use a bicycle?
Unless they do let you ride it inside the store. Then it would be cool.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
They tried a yellow bike program in Santa Cruz, CA a couple of years ago. If you don't know Santa Cruz, it's pretty much Mecca for liberal ex-hippies. If a yellow bike program is going to work anywhere, it's going to work in Santa Cruz.
The program lasted about a week before all of the bikes disappeared. The problem with great ideas like this is that they assume that people aren't lazy, selfish buttheads...oops.
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
Yeah., I'm with you! Getting dizzy enough so that I vomit as I eternally confine myself to a wheelchair sounds like a blast!
Maybe then I could get Kamen's stair climbing wheelchair invention and hack that too so that it'll purposely spin me around and dump me unceremoniously down the stairs it had just climbed. Think of the possibilities...
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Year One:
Something wicked this way comes...
Year Two:
It's called... mysteriously... IT... Ooooh!!!
Year Two and a Half:
Remember Gilligan's Island? It's now called GINGER. Ooooh! But does it REALLY have to do with the classic TV show? Or doesn't it? Wait to find out! Oooooh!
Year Three:
It's a "human moving device." Ooooh what could that mean? Ooooooh!
Year Three and a Month:
Europeans think it's a really good idea! So does Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos! Ooooooooh!
Year Three and two Months:
Oooooooohh!!!
Year Three and three Months:
It's been cancelled.... no just kidding, it's still gonna come out! Tricked 'ya! What is it what is it what is it come on guess!! Ooooh!
Year Three and four Months:
The inventor of this also invented... the slinky!! Ooooh! Is it a slinky scooter? A slinky flying car? A slinky Jetsons-mobile? Is it George Jetson himself playing with a slinky AND Ginger? Ooooh!
The day it comes out:
Good Morning America!
It's a... well... it's a used Moped, to be perfectly honest.. autographed by Ginger from Gilligan's island, comes with an iPod, a gift card to amazon.com, and has a slinky logo on it. It costs $3000 and runs on double-A's that last 3 minutes... so..
....
Ooooooooohh!!!!!
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Let's see... I enjoy the exposure to the elements and the consumption-of-time that I get from walking, but my ass just isn't fat enough. How can I rid myself of all that unnecessary muscle-toning exercise? I know! I'll buy a Segway!
Speaking of overclock, what's the deal with the Smart Key which sets a speed limit? (look at the flash diagram and remove text) If it couldn't go any faster than 8mph, would it be necessary to include a built in speed limit?
Maybe we can swipe barcodes through it to upgrade it's speed, or activate new attacks, or find Digital Monsters. Or something.
Will all the 1337 haX0125 will be making keys which allow functionality that wasn't origionally intended?
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
I don't think anyone could argue that the technology itself isn't cool. It's amazing, and hopefully with time it will be applied somewhere else.
The problem is, we were lead to believe that this would change things. But, really, technology aside, what is new about this in terms of function? At its core, it's simply a device that allows us to move around faster then walking with very little effort. We have those already; from motorized scooters to bicycles, which can be had for quite a bit cheaper. What makes this better? It's easier to use? Most people can handle a bicycle, or at the very least, one of those 'Lark' type electric transports they advertise on TV.
There's no doubt the intentions here are good; lets stop relying on giant polluting cars. The device should be applauded for it's breakthroughs in technology, but unless that technology ends up being translated into some other application, there's really nothing here that will change the world.
The Internet is generally stupid
One thing I see people bitching about here is the fact that it will be impossible to lug about when you're not on them. But I think the whole point of this thing is the fact that you wouldn't get off of it. You're perfectly balanced all the time on what is effectively a zero-footprint transporation device. You wouldn't get off of it while standing in line, or while riding the morning train. In fact, since it does the equivalent of all the small body motions you do naturally to stay upright, you'd probably be less tired on one of these than you would be standing without it. The only problem I can see is stairs... I don't know about other places but here in California EVERYTHING is handicapped accessible, so I don't think that will be that much of an issue. This is brilliant technology, and I can't wait until the price point meets my budget.
Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
I really get disapointed
disappointed.
when yet another reactionery
reactionary.
and empty post from a 14-year-old who cant
can't.
spell counts as "insightfull"
insightful.
on Slahsdot
Slashdot.
-- definately
definitely.
stirs my grits.
Can't say I disagree. Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.
Free music from Jack Merlot.
The "15 times" is based on the fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles traveled for motorcycles and passenger cars. The latest numbers can be found here. For 1999, motorcycles were 18 times as dangerous as passenger cars.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Yes, heavier objects have more momentum.
They also have more friction stopping them, as the force of friction equals the force down (gravity * mass) times the coefficient of friction.
Since both the momentum and the stopping force are proportional to mass, it cancels out.
Of course, real rubber tires don't act quite like what you learned in high-school physics, but we'll leave that for another day.
If you're gonna flame somebody, try to get a bit of a clue first.
Your response has a few holes...
#1) If I could walk to the bus, and then to work from there, I would. The speed is a factor, it doesn't improve the range of where I can go without a car or just walking (and I'll bet it walks slower than I do!).
#4) Bikes manage because they can move quickly enough to avoid side street traffic and/or have a special lane (that they can ignore - after all, they're just like a car - except they can use the sidewalk and run lights at will!). Someing moving at walking speed better not try and use the bike lane, pissing bikers off, or bother any pedestrians - see #5.
#5) I think you rather missed the point of the question. It's not after you're DONE walking that's the issue - it's that you are ambling along on a $3000 device at a speed where most anyone can casuallly catch up to you and bop you on the head. Think "ITJacking" and you get the idea. Unless it comes with an electrified exoskeliton and anti-personel limpet mines (ala Car Wars), I would not be going out for many strolls on this thing.
All this is assuming everyone even has the right idea about what IT is. My guess is a really revolutionary toaster that automatically applies marmalade to anything put within! Now that would be IT for me.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
We have something like that at my university ... The program is basically a black-hole for bikes. I think we made it a quarter before all the bikes were gone ... the last one I saw was a few weeks ago and the rims were pretty much bent in half :)
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
Yes, there are. This is not actually news; stories about IT's true nature were available a week or so after the hype began. (I submitted, but apparently /. is none too interested in getting news out before its generally available.) Kamen is best known for his medical inventions: for example, he came up with the first wearable infusion pump, a Godsend to a certain type of diabetic who must have a steady influx of insulin to function well. In the earlier stories, IT was discussed as a mobility device for the handicapped, and although that's not the focus of the recent announcements its pretty clear that you could adjust the thing for a person with limited mobility by tweaking some of the control parameters.
The disabled, such as my 5-year-old son who suffers from Cerebral Palsy, are most often not retarded, but due to their limitations are indeed unable to operate a scooter or a car. IT may be just the thing for them. (And let me tell you, at $3000 it is priced very competitively with ordinary motorized wheelchairs.)
And the brethren went away edified.
Yeah, but a razor scooter costs 100$, moves 2 to 3 times faster then walking, and *it* has breaks. It dosen't use any electricity, and little kids think your cool when you use it :)
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
This invention is described in detail in US Patent 6,302,230 (sorry, no direct link, use your favorite database).
The cynicism on this board sickens me. I think people are trying to exhibit their "coolness" by putting down this device before they even see a demo. But think about it and try to understand the vision.
,etc - ie, most of america - this thing will be intriguing. Why isn't granny rollerblading around the mall, instaed of using those motorized carts? Think about it. And the population is only gettin OLDER.
1. PEOPLE ARE LAZY. PERIOD. That's why people won't bike the 3 miles to the train station from home or work. The fact that you don't have to pedal this thing will make more difference then most of you realize. Obvously, you health nuts who are complaining about how people SHOULD walk or pedal 3 miles aren't in touch with most of humanity and its tendency to take the path of least effort.
I saw a funny scene where someone at the local shopping center went into a grocery store, came out, and then moved their car about 500 feet and reparked before going into the gym (the GYM, for crying out loud). That behavior tells me that laziness really reigns supreme and that's why this device has a future.
2. So if I don't want to pedal the 3 miles between the train station and home or work, why not use a motorized bike? IT is safer than a motorized bike or scooter. Obviously, the gyros, sensors, and software are doing SOMETHING to keep you from falling over. Can't say the same for a bike. My mom , in her 60's, would probably be comfortable riding one of these things, but she sure won't touch a motorized bike.
3. Also, this thing moves at manageable speeds and seems more agile than what you'd find at lower, comparable speeds on a bike.
For those of you who are 28, fit, and in good shape - sure, bike, rollerblade, etc . For those who are lead much more sedentary lifestyles, are afraid of falling
I think this thing as real potential. Is it a done deal? No. Does this thing provide a solution to a problem that is growing bigger and bigger as cities continue to expand and surburbia means that I no longer can walk to the "corner" video store? I'm certainly going to give this thing a chance.
In Japanese, "Kamen" means mask/disguise. Sounds like this Dean Kamen guy is trying to pull a mask over investors' eyes. ;-)
Sorry, but I saw the patents in referral to IT and Ginger; the concept of a autobalancing wheelchair and a fuel efficient drive system almost immediately sounded like a scooter, or something similar, to me.
Another point. Is no one thinking: Segway, segueway? As in, this is going to introduce something new and different? This is a short term (though short may mean 20 years to Kamen) until whatever he's introducing because of Segway hits the market.
GPL Deconstructed
Wnat to know why this is a big deal? Because if it is a small, fast, cheap vehicle, it could be the next Honda Super Cub is a small, cheap scooter that has long been a popular mode of transportation in Europe and third world nations, where the people have little money for vehicles and fuel, or storage space. Honda has been selling the Super Cub for decades, and Super Cub sales worldwide have been a huge staple of Honda's income for a long time. The Super Cub was also an excellent advertising tool, as it made the association of cheap and reliable with Honda for hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people worldwide.
....
If "it" can handle travel on a crappy dirt road, and sells cheap, this thing has the potential to be huge in areas with electricity. It could make a company, and in the long-run, be a pretty big deal.
Of course, I personally think that Kamen works for Microsoft and is going to show off the new
A rework of traffic rules will be required. This is a "motor vehicle" in some states, but doesn't meet the requirements for one. It might come under the definition of "motorized bicycle" in California (electric, 1KW max), but you'll need to wear a helmet.
The real problem is that it's too fast to mix with heavy pedestrian traffic, but too slow to mix with motor vehicles. It self-balances, but doesn't do automatic collision avoidance.
I'd rather be in an area full of skateboarders than one full of Ginger riders. Skaters have good reflexes.
Having read a number of rebuttals bringing up your points, I've got to counter-rebut a few of them:
;) won't be very pleasant. It is difficult for me to imagine that these will be allowed in great numbers in the same places pedestrians are allowed (in much the same way bicycles aren't technically allowed on the sidewalk).
On the temprature thing, I've lived in Savannah, GA (98 degrees with 98% humidity), visited Phoenix in the summer (120 degrees with 10% humidity), and lived near Ithaca, NY (-4 degrees with who knows humidity and ice and snow so bad a car has trouble). There are significant portions of this country (and the world) where being outside on a lightweight, slowly moving device is either entirely impractical or entirely unpleasant, or both.
But, my biggest beef is with these two things people have brought up:
It can move up to three or four times walking speed.
[B]eing bumped into by one of these is like being bumped into by a person.
Both of these things cannot be true at the same time. Furthermore, even if a Segway moved at exactly the same speed as a person, being hit by one would impart more energy to you because the Segway has 65 lbs more mass than a person (didn't you read the article?) Not to mention getting your foot run over by 260 lbs (more since the owners of these things will by definition not get much excercise
I'm skeptical of its synergistic use with mass-transit, as well, given its sixty-five pound weight and the fact that it's basically as big as a person (presumably causing you to take up an extra person-space). We're willing to adapt public transit to the needs of the disabled, but I'm skeptical we'll be so eager to adapt it to the lazy.
I think the fundamental questions the original poster asked are valid - can this thing really be used around a lot of pedestrians? And, more importantly, how many people live in temperate environments who need to commute long enough distances they can't walk but short enough distances they could - um - Segway, who have $3,000 they'd blow on this and do not already have access to good public transportation?
All of that said, while I'm skeptical it'll change the world, it does sound pretty cool for me (although definitely not 3 Grand kinda cool - $500 maybe). But then, I live about six blocks from a great downtown and a train station - the trick being that it's straight up a hill and you practically need rapelling gear for the walk back home.
How many people live close enough to work that they can afford the time to communte on a device that moves at walking speed?
The article in Time suggested that in the future, you may find a car-free urban core full of IT scooters, with links to mass transit on the ouside of the core. It makes some sense this way:
Mass transit is great for getting you from point B to point C. The problem is you live at point A, and you work at point D. You need to get from A to B, then you ride mass transit, and then you need to get from C to D. So now the problem is not living within scooter range of work, it's living withing scooter range of a mass transit station, and working within scooter range of a mass transit station.
Then you either need a scooter on each end, or the mass transit needs to move scooters and people together. This sort of thing is probably what Steve Jobs had in mind when he said people would redesign cities around these things.
I don't know if it will happen, but it's not as dumb as you implied.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
* We see IT in fight rings?
:)
* IT gets a spot in a Holywood movie?
* they teach an ape to use one?
* the black market of stolen Gingers forces Kamen to license the technology?
* people complain it's a city-street safety hazard?
* people complain it makes them lazy and we should all go back to walking? (I say it was ofcourse a mistake coming down from the trees in the first place)
* we get a weatherproof one?
* someone will model a battle-bot after IT?
really nice, but I'm not waiting at the edge of my seat to get one
That doesn't follow, you know. All that tells us is that it uses half a kilowatt-hour or so (depends on where they're buying the juice; presumably they cited this from the cheapest power market they could find) for a "full day's use", whatever that means. (And don't trust this number any more than you trust Detroit about their gas mileages.)
For all we know it may need to be recharged every couple of miles. Which would suck, but they never told us otherwise, right?
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Granted, when we walk we're falling forward in a controlled fashion, as Kamen states in the Time article, but we then lift ourselves back up and fall again to sustain the walk.
The batteries are for balancing -- five cents of electricity per day. Where does this beast get the energy to move a few hundred pounds at speeds up to 12 MPH and sustain it "all day"?
Can the technology scale? Why not build a roofed two-wheel rickshaw for two riders? Imagine commuting at 30 MPH through a city on a few small rechargable batteries. Make it bigger, give it a fluid reservoir for load balancing, and have a two-wheeled four seated family sedan that cruises the highways safely for pennies per lengthy trip.
I dunno, I will wait until the real world product is in the hands of some real world reviewers before I believe it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Right now I come down on the skeptical side of opinion.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Lets take a look at the the two real complaints -cost and weight- for a moment. Both will obviously come down drastically over the years.
Three things- electronics, gyroscopes, and the batteries make the Segway expensive. The electronics will be a tenth the price within a month of even a single Segway sisterboard making it to Taipie, no matter how poorly the Segway's sales might do. Barring any hereforeto unforeseen aviation boom, I imagine that the gyroscopes will probably only drop in price in proportion with the volume of Segways produced. The batteries should far slightly better (but not as good as the electronics), steadily, albeit slowly, dropping in price over time, a trend that will also take place whether or not Segway is successful.
As I see it, only one thing really adds significant weight to Segway, and that is the batteries. They mention both NiCd and NiMH batteries can be used. IANABE (battery expert?), but I would bet that they are using those older battery technologies because of their power-to-weight ratios, or perhaps even their power-to-volume ratios. Many other power solutions are available, each with drawbacks. Batteries where probably chosen for efficiency, simplicity, and safety concerns. Better battery tech, or fuel cells, or Stirling engines, or even gasoline engines (probably requiring some lightweight, high-velocity flywheels for energy storage) could potentially help reduce the current weight of the Segway. Heck, if these things do become popular in cities, run them right off of overhead wires, like bumper cars! Or maybe even through substreet power lines via inductance. No need for much of a battery at all then.
When Thales was asked what was difficult, he said, "To know one's self." And what was easy, "To advise another."
Ummmm ... so instead you will haul out your 40-lb. Ginger scooter? Note: I don't know how much it will eventually weigh, but the gyroscopes needed to keep a body from falling over (not to mention the lead-acid batteries!) have to weigh something.
So, in class, where will you put this thing? Lock it to the bike rack? Carry (excuse me, "lug") it with you?
Sorry, I just don't see this being more practical than a bike, except that it uses less human energy for the actual locomotion.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Can't you see that a vehicle which uses Dynamic Stability to be driven as an extension of your own body movements is a great innovation?
What, you mean like... a bicycle? Or roller skates?
Hell, I drive my car via an extension of my own body movements. I call this miraculous technology "the steering wheel."
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
I don't see why IT should be any safer than a bicycle in similar traffic conditions. The only thing that might make it safer is if you permit it on sidewalks, but then, why not permit slow-moving bicycles on sidewalks as well?
Because three wheels would increase the base of this devices. As it is the IT is only as wide as a person and the length is the same. It falls basically in the same dimensions that a person falls into. Add a third wheel and you must increase the base in order to get any sort of stability from the device, or you reduce the radius of the wheels to the point that powerring them becomes problematic.
I am sure that they did not want a size increase to limit the use of this device on sidewalks. if it was bulkier than a person then they may not hit their sidewalk use goal. Two wheels side by side gave them this base where two wheels front and back would not have. Two wheels front and back would have increased the length to achieve balance and increased the scooter comparison.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
I must say I'm rather disappointed with the /. community on this one. If the claims Kamen makes are true, this is a truly impressive piece of technology, and at a *minimum* it will be very useful in a number of niche markets.
I think whether it penetrates the consumer market and is able to compete with scooters, bicycles, and cars for short-haul trips is an unsolved question. But it clearly has a niche. It's a fraction of the weight and cost of a car, it's smaller (albeit a bit heavier) than a bike, and it's a *lot* faster than walking. Most of us can walk comfortably at 3-4 MPH. This thing goes 8-12 MPH. So it's definitely useful.
I'm a college student, and until last year I lived about a 15 minute walk away from campus. That meant I spent half an hour to an hour every day walking between class and home. This thing would have therefore saved me 10-20 minutes per day of walking time-- not a huge savings, but non-trivial. In addition, I make short trips around campus that take 5-10 minutes of walking. This thing could cut those times in half at least.
Could a bicycle do the same thing? Yes, but not nearly as well. First, bicycles are not as stable as this thing apperantly is. Secondly, if it works as described, bicycles don't deal with crowded sidewalks as well as this thing does. This is because a bicycle has to be moving to be stable. So if you have to stop to deal with traffic, you have to get off the seat and stand, which isn't very comfortable or convenient. Bicycles also don't deal well with sandy or slippery terrain, and you're farther off the ground, so falls will hurt a lot more. With this thing, at worse it starts to tip forward or backwards and you can just step off.
Also, because it's not as big or bulky as a bicycle, most people will probably be able to just bring the thing in with them when they arrive at their destinations. In my case, I work on campus, so I could just bring the thing into my office and leave it there until its needed. And it apperantly has an access key, so if you stole it you'd have to rip out the electronics and replace them in order to use it again.
The big concerns as I see them are threefold. First is the cost. This is *not* going to replace a car, so it has to be a lot cheaper than a car. I think $3000 is too high for 90% of consumers. If they can get it down to about $2000, there are going to be plenty of yuppies who will be willing to shell out for them. If they get it down to $1000, they'll be able to easily sell millions of them. I imagine that most of the cost is in the custom electronics and precision hardware-- stuff that should come down in price as it's mass-produced. Going after corporate and government markets should give them time to perfect their technique and bring costs down before invading the consumer space.
The second concern is weight. 65 lbs is more than most people can carry for any distance, and it's more than some people can even pick up at all. If I were to get one, one thing that I'd want to be able to do is take it on the bus with me, and it sounds like it's a little too heavy for that. I'd imagine that the battery and motors are most of the weight-- hopefully they can make a lightweight version soon.
The third factor that I think will impact its success is the extent to which different form factors can be made. For example, I can imagine an enclosed version for use in cold places in the winter. Or a slightly larger version with a small cargo bin for hauling stuff around. If the technology is flexible enough to accomodate these sorts of adjustments to the form factor, then I can see them making different model to meet different niches. If they made one big enough to let me carry a couple of bags of groceries on the back, that would eliminate one of the major reasons I'd need a car.
Glad I don't live in the real world. My work commute is around 4.5 miles, takes me 20-30 minutes depending on whether I feel like tiring myself out. So, 9 MPH is leisurely for me. That's on a $450 bicycle.
Indeed, not any slower. And it's the only exercise I get on any sort of regular basis, so that's a pro, not a con.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
I don't know what's more depressing: that you actually thought you were being insightful by posting this, or that our ever-vigilent moderators voted you up for it.
At the risk of responding to your knee-jerk, brainless dribblings with an actual answer instead of the back-handed slap upside the face that they so richly deserve, allow me to call your attention to:
- the elderly
- the handicapped
- people too young for a driver's license
- people who live in communities with noise-abatement laws
...and that's just off the top of my head, and not even speculating on possible uses in industrial applications. The question isn't whether people can drive a car or a scooter, although there are plenty who cannot for reasons having nothing to do with being "retards". The question is whether there are applications for which the Segway might be more appropriate than a car or a scooter.The problem with the Segway isn't that it lacks a market. The problem is that it's at least $2300 too expensive for most of them, and probably about twice as heavy as it should be.
How is IT as safe as a car? You're totally unprotected on an IT, just like on a scooter or a bike.
With a top speed of under 10mph, comparing a Segway's safety to a car is, well, about as stupid as the rest of your post. I suspect that its safety is about comparable to a bicycle, but the Segway has the advantage of not putting the rider in a hunched-over position -- jumping clear of an accident will be much easier.
In passing, let me just say that I am astounded and overwhelmed by your level of compassion and understanding for your fellow human beings. Here's hoping that you contract a degenerative neural disease, so you can taste some of the same.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Ok, this is a bloody accident for me waiting to happen. Do you know how sweet it would be to get that thing up to 60mph or so?? If I ever get ahold of one, there's going to be some hot warranty voiding action.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
IIS has some of the same error messages as IE, but either way it's pretty weird...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I mean really, it's like he's building a space probe or something. I suppose you wouldn't want to have the thing die and nock you over, though. But I suspect that as time passes some (a lot) of that redundancy is going to go away in the name of price.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
[B]eing bumped into by one of these is like being bumped into by a person.
I actually had someone mention this at another board. My whole reasoning behind this is as follows (proceeds to other board, copies, and pastes):
To move forward, you lean the device forward itself. Therefore the handlebars are out in front. If you hit something, those are the first thing to hit it. As you keep going, the handlebars are stopped, against what you hit, so as the bottom continues forward, they stay where they are, causing the device to become more vertical. At the point if becomes vertical, it actually stops. So you don't get the whole weight of the device at the full speed.
Now that is my take on it. I don't know if thats how it works exactly, but thats what I gathered. And I'm sure the computer in it has some form of collision recognition or whatever.
I do completely agree with you on the weather point. And having lived here in Texas my life, I have experienced quite a few temperature differences myself. I know that, after walking to class for 15 minutes in 100+ weather, and a bit of humidity, its not that bad. Of course, I'm not in a suit or pants. But still, I don't think heat would be a problem for people who already walk in that kind of weather. As far as the cold, I don't have much of a solution for that. All I can say is bundle up!
Actually, I think the cold extreme can be withstood if you don't have snow and ice. But as I learned this week, it just really sucks without a hat. Of course, when its really that bad outside, should people be driving at all?
If Dean Kamen's whole theory about closing down whole sections of downtowns and business districts to cars actually comes about, I think using it around many pedestrians is very feasible. Imagine how many people you can move on these things if they get to take the whole road.
And about mixing it with Mass Transit, yes, that would be a problem. But I think its footprint is small enough where it can be placed between a persons legs as he/she is sitting down without causing too much trouble.
To tell you the truth, we'll just have to see. The first people to put their money into it can be the guinea pigs. We'll just have to see how that works out. I don't think there's much that we can predict with any kind of accuracy. Price will be a problem, but like I have said, I think the majority of the cost is the computing power and gyros, which the post of the comuting power itself should fall pretty rapidly.
I actually have to go OVER a hill to all my classes at the University. Therefore when I tell my children I had to walk to class everyday, and it was uphill both ways, I won't be lying!
Blake
Who the fuck can't ride a scooter or drive a car? Is there some huge group of uncoordinated retards who cant operate a scooter or a car but can ride an IT?
Probably approaching 40% of the over sixty set, and 80% of the over seventy set. My grandmother springs immediately to mind.
Is that the market for this piece of shit? It's some sort of scooter for the severely challenged?
Well, I don't know if that's the intended market or not, but I do know that the aforementioned grandmother is getting one just as soon as I can slap the credit card down, assuming it really performs as the previews indicate.
I suspect I'm not unique in this sentiment.
A Segway can be used as a car for certain short-run applications. Its safety comes from the fact that you don't have to put it out on the street where two-ton metal things are going to slam into you at 30+ miles an hour. Sure, you can fall off, you can bump into other things or people at 5 mph, but I'd rather take my unprotected body into a brick wall at 5 mph than go car-vs-car at 30 mph each.
Segway is safer than a car because walking is safer than a car. Cars have steel frames and safety features up the wazoo because speed kills--double the speed, quadruple the hurt. Segway is safe because it's slow.
--The basis of all love is respect
The slashdot audience seems fairly split in the middle about this one. Half of us seem to think that it'll certainly sell, the other half that it's just a (vastly overpriced) scooter.
Personally, I think it'll sell to many purely for the novelty value. I've always been fascinated by Kamen's previous self-balancing wheelchairs and the like. I'd love to own one... but probably not for $3000.
What I notice from the article is that Kamen appears to be understating his invention to start with. I'd probably guess it goes faster than 12mph, and although that would be impractical on inner-city pavements, I can think of quiet suburban roads where that would be a godsend. Also, if any decent number of people start buying one, I'd guess the price will drop well below $3k.
Pure physics states that a bumblebee can't fly.
Pure physics states no such thing. Individual scientists might have made such statements, but they would have been unwise, as a bumblebee inarguably flies, and to state that it is physically impossible for them to do so would be ludicrous and incorrect. A scientist, or anyone else, might argue that the aerodynamics of bumblebee flight are a mystery, and they would not be an ass for stating that opinion.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
This invetion will go the way of the Sinclair horizontal bike.
It is awkward, expensive, makes you look like a dork, and isn't really more useful than something you already had.
Mind you, I'm never wrong about these things. When the CD-ROM was invented, I accurately predicted we would never hear from such a useless invention again. After all, it was more expensive than the PC you plug it in, and all of that for half a GB of read only data, while no one could have any conceivable use for read only data.
I also accurately predicted that Java would be just a fad. After all, who would need a slow interpreted platform independant language while only one platform would exist a few years on.
this time I'm right tho.
As far as I can see, it's designed to make you fall over when you hit the brakes. Either that or you just go ahead and plough into that old granny at 20mph anyway[1].
Copenhagen airport has push scooters, you see people whizzing up and down the the airport. Very weird.
[1] Grannies are 50 points you know.
Deleted
I was just nodding in agreement with all the "it's only a scooter" comments when my mobile phone (cell phone to you Yanks!) rang, and I started to think about possible parallels in technology. When the first portable phones were available, they were basically a normal telephone handset connected to a big clunky battery. Their usefulness was pretty limited - after all, they were "just phones," expensive ones at that. Now my mobile fits in my pocket, the battery lasts several days even with heavy use, it cost next-to-nothing, and I would seriously struggle to live without it (as would many /.ers, I would think)
...) should be worthy of at least consideration.
;)
The Segway technology has the potential to evolve, as portable phone technology has. From the individual's point of view, it may not solve an existing problem, but from society's point of view, a possible solution to the myriad problems of urban traffic (congestion, pollution, acres of real estate devoted to parking space,
I'm not saying in it's present form it will change the world, but don't write off the whole concept out of hand.
And as the Time article pointed out, marketing of course is the key, not the technology itself. To eventually crack the consumer market, the Segway must be painted as an indispensable lifestyle addition, complete with an array of eye-candy after-market accessories.
'course I could be wrong, and there's a worldwide market for maybe 5 of these things
Hello,
You may or may not be aware that this 'personal electric vehicle' idea has been carried out before. It caused the loss of a great computer company in the UK (Sinclair , remember them, the Spectrum, QL etc). This was back in 1985
Sir Clive came up with an invention way ahead of its time, called the C5.
See here for details and pictures!
It was an outstanding failure, mainly due to safety concerns on busy roads. It caused the downfall of Sinclair and massive personal debts to Sir Clive (brilliant man)
Prepare to be underwhelmed. Strange how these things go in cycles.
I don't know why everyone keeps dismissing this thing. I live in Atlanta where the traffic and smog are terrible. I would love to ride my Bike to work -- better exercise, etc. But everyone drives here and I fear for my life( damn Atlanta drivers ). The reason people drive is because they are out of shape, physically incapable of riding a bicycle, or the weather discourages them. Segway solves some of this problem. The people who can't bike use Segway and those of us who can bike use the bike. As long as this thing gives more credibility to alternate forms of transportation, it will be doing us a big favor. Think of the energy and environmental concerns -- carrying a person around for a full day on $.5 of electricity.
We should start lobbying now for the government to start investigating how to convert some streets into IT and Bike paths. Cars are terrible -- expensive and harmful and deadly. If this helps change America's love affair with the car all the better.
Impressive! But, before some webmaster from a dying gaming site goes off and does it, someone should register planetsegway.com. It could be you... :)
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
It's the technology. I don't think the "scooter" itself is supposed to revolutionize the world. Rather, I think the focus here should be more on the technology *in* the scooter. People need to be looking at the implications of what he has designed to make this thing 'tick'.
They used $100 million on that?! And he already had the balancing wheel-chair. (I've seen that btw, and it's cool..).
But this? This will crash and burn. $3000 for a scooter? Think bike. And you'll even get exercise..
This is a toy for lazy rich guys. Nothing else.
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Do you think it can be hacked to run linux?
--- even the safest course is fraught with peril
That should be good. Just lean forward to go forward. When the power runs out, just fall on your face.
Is anyone else looking forward to seeing that?
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
Yes, the hype sucked. No, it's not Cochrane's warp drive.
But it is a new mode of transportation. It is a motorized, stand-on, auto-balancing, fly-by-wire, two-wheeled unicycle.
I use "two-wheeled unicycle", because the unicycle is the only single-axle vehicle that is familiar to everyone. (Or think of a non-bouncing pogo stick with wheels if you prefer.)
The single axle is the most significant distinguishing feature of this invention.
This is a very cool ride because it's a motorized unicycle that anyone can walk up to, stand on, and go zipping around. If it works well, that's gotta feel really amazing.
This is a very cool hack because you can't build a single axle vehicle that everyone can use without sensors, computing power, and software to do the balancing. $3,000 for this is pretty fscking cool. $200 in 7 years will be really significant.
This is also a novel UI. This is the first throttle/brake on a motorized vehicle that I've heard of that is coupled to corresponding body motion rather than being hand or foot actuated. One UI thing I question is that it sounds like you twist your wrist to turn. Since you lean forward or backward to throttle or brake, why don't you turn your body to turn (pivoting your torso and the handlebars with respect to the platform)?
On a more practical note, a single-axle vehicle can have advantages in size and maneuverability, and probably efficiency, over two-axle vehicles. Standing humans, after all, are single-axle and two-wheeled (horses are two-axle and four-wheeled), so this is the vehicle configuration that most closely matches our bodies.
It hasn't been practical before, because it requires cheap and reliable "AB" (Artificial Balance :-), which Kamen's team seems to have built. Once the required AB software and hardware are cheap and small (fist-sized and $5), this will be the most cost-effective single person vehicle.
It's not nearly as significant as the automobile or the bicycle/moped/motorcycle, but mankind's first practical single-axle vehicle is sure not a fscking scooter!
=LavaTrollUm... it sounds like the decoder glitched
You're right - US cities are built around the automobile. Large arterial highways carrying cars large distances at large speeds (well, that's the theory). Cities sprawl - everything feels BIG. It's very American.
Here in London, it's pretty pointless to own a car, unless you use it to get out of the city. The city is flat, space is at a premium, and walking is actually a viable option, if you've got the time. 3 million people endure the horrors of the London Underground (hot, smelly, crowded, frequently broken) every day, simply because there aren't any alternatives. Segway might just work here, since Londoners are typically businesspeople, and won't do that nasty physically active stuff, like riding bikes.
As an example, I walked to work once or twice during Tube strikes this year, and it took about an hour. If I could Segway it in 20 mins, this would be *faster* than the tube, and hugely more enjoyable. All I'd need is covered pathways to keep the rain off and I'd be set.
Uh, have you ever tried to balance on a Segway? This thing is marketing, I tell you.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Let's hope.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
I love computers. It's cool when they can do things like keep us balanced. But why not just put a simple wheel on the back? A three-wheeled device doesn't need 10 microprocessors and five gyroscopes.
Read the article at Time[time.com]. The impression I get is that you lean forward slightly, which presumably makes it start to tip forward, which is sensed by the gyros, and it starts moving forward. With three wheels, you'd have to use pressure sensors or something to sense this, and it would be much less nature. It wouldn't tie in with your natural balance.
"Most of the people at work live 20+ miles, not doable. And my laptop bag is too heavy to carry that far."
America -
the only country where a product which enables you to be lazier is shut down by the lazy.
your jesus is another mans xebu. chew on that hypocrites.
--
Nic
Ok I know a super motor scooter really isn't anything new, but the tech behind it is awesome.
.05$ a day! My comp uses more than that on/.! I just hope that this is put in hybrid cars, robots, etc so the next time I buy a truck it has double digit gas milage.
1)Auto balancing.
This IS big. Now some other company could use this technology and build something like oh say artifical legs, better wheel chairs, etc. And, suprisingly, there are people who have lost their ability to balance. Now (or soon) devices can be built to restor the function.
2) Low energy use.
3)Responds to human wants.
"Just imagine stopping" And it stops. This is the ultimate UI (yes better than KDE Aqua and Luna) That is my favorite part. I hope we can make more stuff that responds to what I want to do. Like the radios in HHTG.
Well In conclusion IT is nothing short of curious but the technology powering IT is very powerful and will make a dioffernce. The guy who made this was also the guy who made the filters in a portable dyallisis machine. So there is innovation here.
Secondsun
- My NoC can beat up you NoC
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Yes, I can.
The riders falling into each other and screaming obscenities, one pulling a gun on the other.
Sounds like modern society to me! "My scooter goes from 0-5 in 5.2!"
Do you like German cars?
I think two things will likely lower the cost of scooters based on Segway technology:
1. The on-board computing power will get more powerful and get quite a bit smaller in a few years--imagine all the control electronics fitting in the space of two standard-sized deck of playing cards or less.
2. The use of improved metal alloys and/or composite materials plus better battery design could lower the weight to under 30 pounds, which will allow people to carry it around like we do now with folding bicycles.
I foresee Segway-like scooters with a top speed of 22-25 mph and a range of 35-40 miles by 2005. In that case the scooter does become a very useful urban transportation device.
Something grand like alternative fuel engines, home dialysis equipment or an autonomous exoskeleton?
It's a fucking scooter - we knew that already.
its pretty clear that you could adjust the thing for a person with limited mobility by tweaking some of the control parameters. It does make more sense in that role. It's gyroscopic system prevents falling -- this is a very big deal for many elderly people, who could operate an electric bicycle quite well but wouldn't survive a fall. And it would work much better than a bike on a crowded sidewalk. However, if it's controlled by shifting weight, would a cerebral palsy patient be able to control it well enough to stay on the sidewalk, let alone be safe in a crowd?
I know I can stand riding around on something for 5 minutes in freezing weather. Just early this week I was walking for 15 minutes in 40 degree weather with a 20 mph wind!
:-)
Glad to know you guys can tough it out down there in Austin. Up here in New Hampshire, if the weather gets that good around now the joggers dig out their shorts.
Seriously, though, if this device has some kind of traction for slippery conditions and the ability to function in low temperatures there's no reason people couldn't use it -- just like they use snowmobiles, skis, etc.
When I finally got my license not that long ago, it was recognized that the vast majority of motorcycle accidents were caused by drunk driving. Almost all the rest could be contributed to driver error. Not the motorcycle driver's error but the error of those other drivers around him/her. Someone pulling out in front of you is the most common. Maybe it's because they didn't see you. Maybe it's because they thought you were farther away. I've had people stare me in the eye and pull out less than 15yds in front of me. Nice. If you ride a bike, you have to be one helluva defensive driver. So many riders I know aren't and they will probably wreck at some point. I was taught to be a defensive driver (and I taught myself to be offensive too :) ) from an early age so I have a leg up on the people who went through the system later and weren't taught that.
And she can't stand for any extended period of time without serious leaning (on cane or walker). If this thing responds to subtle shifts in body weight to determine where it's going, it's going to take her in one direction only. And I'm betting even at that she'd be tired before she got any real distance.
It's a toy, get over it.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Charles Gibson and Diane Sawyer got on them and zipped around for a few minutes.
It's fucking cool, OK?
So, all you naysayers out there asking questions like "how does this replace a bicycle?" or "how does it corner?" Maybe you should have waited to see!
First, these things look fucking MANUVERABLE. They turn on a dime. If you're stationary, and you turn the handlebars, you can do a stationary 360 if you want. Try THAT on a bike. While Dean Kamen was being interviewed, he was standing there idling, kind of casually rolling back and forth.
Several times, Kamen took his hands completely off the handlebars and continued along. The platform kept perfect balance and kept going straight.
Gibson picked it up faster than Sawyer, and Sawyer almost fell off hers once (she forgot what she was doing and panicked, I think, half-leaping from the platform as it rolled towards the crowd). But by the end of the first commercial break, they had both mastered it, and were zipping all around the plaza with speed and aplomb.
They put speed-limits on the newscasters' units, but Kamen's unit was fully unregulated and looked like it could really move fast. (Imagine the disaster if either of those newscasters had suffered an injury on live television on the very first demonstration!)
Some other demonstrators ran an obstacle course, including ramps, rocks, shallow steps (nothing like a staircase, but at least 2 inches high), and yes indeed, water. One of the demonstrators even did a stationary 360 while stopped on the middle of the ramp. It was freaky looking. He rotated around, became diagonal, then straightened out and the thing didn't budge.
Guys, this thing looks really cool. It is time for you to give this thing the props it deserves. If you still want to knock it, fine, but remember: the "hype" attached with this thing came from totally unrealistic expectations and wild speculation, fueled in part by Slashdot reader comments.
Nah, it's nothing more than an iButton. Might even be nothing more than a serial number iButton, but it may actually be one of the Java buttons.
I can see it. Wheelchairs with only two wheels. High speed mobile robots. Heck, you could even make smart casters for construction scaffolding that would adjust for wind load. That is truly cool.
But please, oh please, do tell me how on earth an electric scooter (admittedly, a very cool one) is bigger than the invention of the car, or the Internet, or sliced bread? Yes, yes, these will be phenominally useful in crowded Asian cities. Yes, paperboys and postal workers and meter maids and beat cops will have their lives changed for the better. SO??
I'm a big believer in electric vehicles. I'm designing my own right now, in fact. But try as I might, I cannot see the Segway as anything more than a fun gadget. I could use it at the mall, or maybe back in the manufacturing plant where I work instead of having to walk all the way back to the production areas. But it will not change my life, like the car, or the PC, or the Internet has. Won't happen.
If I worked close to home, I'd either bike or walk, not use a Segway. As it is, I'm a 25 minute highway commute away, something a Segway will never be able to do a damned thing about.
SUMMATION: Segway is cool. Segway is high tech, and demands mad props. Segway will NOT change the face of society. Segway is an electric scooter. Segway is an electric scooter. Segway is an electric scooter!
Mr. Ska
That aside, so what if it's only a proof-of-concept? What's that going to get us in 5 years from now? Maybe it'll weigh only 15kg instead of 30. Perhaps the top speed will be raised. Longer battery life? Heavier load capbability? Integrated MP3 player? [ahem] Point is, it's an electric scooter based on some bitchin' technology. In 5 years, it will still be an electric scooter based on bitchin' technology, that is now better and has more features.
Pardon me if I fail to hop on the bandwagon.
Mr. Ska
He said he hoped to have it at $3000 for consumers in a year's time. It takes time economies of scale to kick in, particularly if there isn't already an established market for the particular device.
It took more than a decade for VCR's to drop from over $1000 to less than $100.
-----
Mr. Ska
...maybe "Segway" can replace the "CowboyNeal" poll topic!
Mr. Ska
Since this IS the /. crowd, anyone pick one up today and got Linux running on it yet? :-) linuxonit.com/net/org seems to be available
As a person that commutes by bike, one of the biggest problems I foresee with this device is where to ride it.
It's too fast for the sidewalk and not fast enough for the road.
If you ride on the sidewalk, you have to be very aware and extremely careful to not run into a pedestrian. It requirs more observation and forethought than many people are accustomed too.
Riding on the road puts you in danger of getting smashed by a car. I have runnin's on a weekly basis with this. Ask any bike messenger about this.
Bike lanes would be great, but if those existed we wouldn't need this device as much anyway.
Laugh at my ignorance while I learn Rails - a Real ne
It's about the communities, not the cities. People drive less than a mile to go to the grocery store, mall, etc. All these new developments are basically built that way, at least here in Maryland. With a Segway, I can ride to the grocery store.
As for a bike, I find it hard to
a) carry a lot of packages -- a self propelled machine like the Segway could probably carry a lot more.
b) SWEAT! How can I ride to work on a bicycle, in a suit, and not be covered in sweat when I arrive?
I think Segway will have a profound impact in places like NYC (where I grew up) and in small communities built around a town center.
*sigh*
At least give it a chance people. $3000 isn't that much money. I've got friends who spend nearly that much on mountain bikes who live in completely flat areas. A simple CD player cost that much when they first came out. VCR's cost considerably more than that at launch.
How many of us own/owned personal computers that cost that much money? Before we start casting stones at somebody else's ideas which many may find very useful, perhaps we should look at our own spending priorities.
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
From Kamen's interview this morning, a six hour charge equals twelve to seventeen miles on level ground. The machine doesn't produce energy from thin air. :)
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
In my day, we actually had to *walk* 5 miles up a hill to get to college
Read about IT in your favorite hype-dispensing media outlet
Huh? I *am* reading about it on my favorite hype-dispensing media outlet right now.
Oh, besides Slashdot...
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Theoretically, if the Segway takes off, there will be a greater demand for small vehicle traffic design. Bike lanes -- intended for usage for both bikes and Segways -- could be added to some of the major areas surrounding urban centers.
Designing a traffic infrastructure for both vehicles would encourage and benefit both.
Of course, I emphasize the word "Theoretically" in this assessment. Americans' love affair with the automobile runs too deep. It might not be efficient to drive our asses a few miles, but automobiles offer relative safety, protection from weather, cargo hauling and occasionally social status.
Christopher N Emmick
A good man, a better nerd.
No, Fahrenheight. Heh.
He'd have to be from somewhere in the Northwest Territories then.
Not at all. Winnipeg (in southern Manitoba, almost on the U.S. border) hits -40 at least once a year.
Active balance. You step on one and it detects which way you're leaning and moves itself underneath you to keep you balanced. It's the same thing you do when you balance a baseball bat on end on your palm, only this is being done with little sensing gyros and computers and motors.
Remember, this is the guy that built a two-wheeled wheelchair that could go up stairs. It's technically feasable.
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
I was at the Good Morning America tapeing with a bunch of other Columbia Engineering students and I wasn't all that impressed. The performance was pretty good and it certainly wins on the "coolness" factor but In terms of practicality IT was majorly lacking. With a price tag of $3000 it makes quite an expensive toy and yet it isn't fast enough to replace a car.
Pfft. We don't need no stinking wussy "wind chill" to hit -40. Parts of Canada regularly hit -60C. It's only the tropical climes of southern Ontario and BC that manage to stay above -20 all year.
I could imagine a great attachment: A small two wheel wagon coupled with a universal joint to the Ginger thing. Power solution -> extra batteries integrated into the wagon.
I'm surprised they did not already talk about something like this because the grocery trip scenario is an obvious one.
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
I'm not an expert on his other inventions/innovations, but from what I've seen of his intellectual property myself and from what I've heard from other engineers/entrepreneurs, of whom i have a great deal of respect for, that I know inside and outside of the medical devices industry (his primary field) they're not either. I don't mean to dump on Kamen, but I would hardly say the potential of the Segway (IT) follows from his track record.
Actually truth be told I think his wheelchair-like device has the greatest potential if his design can be manufactured, produced, maintained, etc. properly.
I think the segway is more photogenic than the transmeta, or the Y2K bug for that matter.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Because its a total waste of time like it is.
Right now the Government spends a buttload of my tax dollars creating bicycle lanes on our county roads.
Bicycle lanes, which no one uses except for recreation on weekends by the militant spandex bike crowd... (who actually don't use the lanes, but instead prefer to still use the part meant for cars)
So lets see, it rains, it snows, its windy, its too cold, its too hot.... and who will use it then?
Of course we have Government agencies stepping up to the plate with out tax dollars to spend on this item where there is no valid use for it.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
...and also pointed out at the end that it would probably go over well in Japan and Europe - but not here. Did you even bother to read my post?
Frankly, that's only the beginning of segway's problems, and although you pointed out technologies will improve segway in the future, those technologies (i.e. lightweight electric motors and very energy dense electric power storage) will be applicable to a whole range of matters beyond segway, including a much better electric bike.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
It can turn faster. (turning radius of 0, or the same as a pedestrian)
The control system is more intuitive (if it works as described). Less 'rough' than a scooter. Less like driving, more like walking.
And I don't think you can speak as to whether it's more reliable or not until you've used one, or at least until we have some statistical data. I tried closing my eyes and imaginging using these thigns (I have a good imagination)... seems more appealing than a scooter to me.
There was a simmilar (true unicycle) device shown on the Hannover Fair in Spring by the Fachhochschule (FH / College of Applied Sciences) Bielefeld. Here's a mini-paper and here the press-release (in German / with photo).
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
This is awesome. It's small, you can't really hurt yourself on it it seems, and it won't fall over. Looks like the perfect mode of transportation for bar hopping if you ask me. All you have to do is slump forward and fiddle w/ your wrists to steer yourself around. If you fall off it, it stops. Giddy up.
link is realmedia surestream or something.
this is my sig.
I don't understand what is so great about this invention. The fact is, any able-bodied person who is willing to do only a moderate amount of exercise can achieve the necessary level of fitness needed to ride a bicycle faster than the maxiumum speed of this thing for several hours. A decent bicycle is
1) Faster.
2) Less expensive.
3) Does not suffer limitations inherent from batteries.
4) Does not cause pollution (the battery power does have to come from some power plant, you know).
4) Keeps you fit, as an added benefit.
Sure, cities would be nicer places if most people used these scooters... but the same would be true if people would stop being so lazy and ride a bike!
If you're moving at 17mph, you're not a pedestrian. 17mph is a fair cycling speed. These are electrically-powered motor-scooters, and will be treated as such. If they currently manage to get through some loophole through being electrically-powered, chances are the loophole will be closed shortly. Or at least it will be after the first person is killed by some asshole riding at 17mph along a sidewalk - 65lbs of scooter and 150-200lbs of person travelling at 17mph don't just _stop_, even with gyros...
65lbs is _bloody_ _heavy_ - think typical all-up weight of gear carried by a soldier in one of those large rucksacks. You can't carry it in both hands for more distance than a quick stagger. Certainly carrying it up stairs is a non-starter.
Batteries won't last - it'll need an order of magnitude improvement in battery technology to crack that problem. This scooter will run out of power on the first hill. 17 miles on a level, smooth surface is no big deal - let's wait and see how much they get on a real surface, or on anything with an incline.
Battery-assist bikes are a cool idea - they can give you some help up the hill whilst you still pedal, so you're still supplying over 50% of the energy, and even if the battery dies then you can still carry on under your own power. And if it really goes wrong, you've got 30lb of bike and batteries to push home, on large wheels designed to naturally cope with obstacles. But once this scooter runs out of batteries, you're screwed, stuck, dead-in-the-water, etc. And you have to push 65lb of scooter home up that hill, with little piddling wheels in a configuration which makes it naturally unstable.
In other words, this is a less-good version of existing battery-powered bikes. Innovation, schminnovation.
Grab.
Hey, I just realized something...
Have you read that part where Andy Grove, 65, was pushed on the chest while standing on IT, and never fell off?
Well, Given this thing self balances you, and is virtually impossible to fall off of IT, then is opens up huge possibilities for Human Transporting Under Influence!
Now, you can be totally drunk and still manage to get home safe, provided you have a GPS too.
Let me stress this point: Sidewalks are for walkers. They are not for bicycles, or gingers, or pogo sticks. The only motorized vehicles I should see on the sidewalk are those used by the mobility disabled.
But more to the point, it is just purely offensive to put forth as some sort of miracle product a device that clearly can only significantly replace human-powered transit. Okay, so it reportedly has some sort of nifty, intuitive interface. There is absolutely nothing else significant about this invention.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
>Get around town generating absolutely no >pollution
And that electricity is coming from where, fairies?
Uh, if you're in Boston, your electricity is probably coming from a 40-year-old natural-gas or coal-fired plant. You might well produce less pollution in some of the new SLEV Hondas than on an electric scooter.
...the bicycle
Balance sensors:
IT: complex software and embeded circuitry used in conjunction with gyroscopes (5) to accomodate shifts in weight and terrain.
Bicycle: uses embed, neural networked balance sensors (2) of operator in conjunction with 2 plane-oriented gyroscopes (wheels, 2) to accomodate shifts in weight and terrain
Advantage: Bicycle. Extensive beta-testing and significant market penetration of biological control units predominate.
Power-train:
IT: battery operated motors, NiCd & NiMH. Regchargeable by plugging in any battery outlet. Good for approx. 6 hours.
Bicycle: uses operator biochemical force-actuators (legs, 2) for power-train. Rechargable at any lunch counter. Good for approx. 12 hours, or longer if reserves (fat) used.
Advantage: Bicycle: mean lifetime on force-actuators before requiring replacement is 75 years.
Motors:
IT: two which drive the vehicle independently. Emission free and fully redundant. If one fails, the other takes over.
Bicycle: two which drive the vehicle independently. Emission free and fully redundant. If one fails, the other takes over.
Advantage: Tie
CPU:
IT: pair of circuit boards ("sisterboards") sends commands to motor units based on input from sensors.
Bicycle: operator neural network ("left hemisphere" and "right hemisphere") sends commands to motor units based on input on sensors.
Advantage: Bicycle: operator neural networks includes threat detection, navagation ability and significant other software components.
Cost:
IT: who fscking knows?
Bicycle: less than IT
Advantage: Bicycle.
Winner: Bicycle.
Throw a real engine into it, add some armor and weaponry, and you've pretty much got a mini-tank. Heck - slave a bunch of 'em together with an encrypted local IR/radio network, and you could have one man leading a "squad" of heavy weaponry units.
This could be the first glimpse at what heavy infantry might look like in the years to come.
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
To quote a German politician (on 9/11): "Today we are all Americans."
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
My whole take on the device: It will be great for people who live fairly close to work. I think it will quickly become a "must have" for anyone who lives in a big city or lives close to work. You can ride it right up to your apartment, through the halls of your building to your office, etc. When you're done, it can be put in a closet.
Unfortunately, for the most of us, it's going to be an expensive toy. I can't ride it to work due to the limited range. If they could make the thing go 30-40 miles at full speed on a single charge, I'd be onboard. I could ride it to work, I could ride it around town during lunch, and I could ride it home afterwards (on sidewalks and bike paths, of course, not in traffic). Perhaps some better specs will be released soon.
But I have to ask, what's with Deka registering mystirlingscooter.com? Just trying to throw everyone off, or what? It was my understanding that the device itself wasn't going to be all that revolutionary, but rather the technology behind it. If this were powered by an efficient stirling engine, that would make sense. The technology that makes it device stand up is cool, but it's not going to change the world.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
That and its much more pedestrian friendly than bicycles... no need to get into the street and getting hit by a bus or idiot speeding down the roads.
My only questions are: Why all the redundancy? Sure, it'd be annoying if a motor failed, but are they expecting that to happen often? Eliminating the extra motors and cpus would bring the cost down considerably.
And the weight too..at 65 lbs, its no lightweight. I have to climb up stairs to my apartment (no handicap ramps here), which I will need to lug the thing up. Eliminating those extra motors will help take a few lbs off of it... perhaps an integrated backstrap for it would help too.
All in all, i'd buy one if it were cheaper.
-
1. What's the pounds-per-square-inch of force at the two points where the wheels meet the surface being traveled on? Is this enough to seriously injure feet/break bones when loaded with someone of average mass?
;-)
On the show this morning Kamen intentionally ran over the chicks foot. She said she barely felt it.
2. How does this thing handle on more slippery surfaces? The tires seem designed for dry surfaces where a smooth tire can expect reasonably good traction.
Once again, on the show this guy ran it through a shallow pool of water (looked like 2-3 inches) and emerged on a platform with a ramp leading down to the ground. He came out of the water, started down the ramp, stopped, did a 360, and continued down the ramp.
3. If I were to have a view from an overhead camera of an open squarish area with a bunch of salesrobots riding these around while trying to conduct business on their cellphones and reading their latest pager messages, would it be much like watching a science film about how molecules speed up and collide under heat/pressure?
The idea is that if you can do those things and walk at the same time, you should be ok. The chick on the show was able to remove both hands and rest her knee on the handles while moving along.
7. Will it have an emergency 'stop NOW' button to tell the processors "Halt horizontal movement and just balance, NOW"?
All you do is step off. The platform senses this and stops immediately.
8. Are the electronics sections reasonably proof from the elements of weather?
Like I said, they ran the thing through water. The whole thing got wet. I'm sure they've waterproofed everything. As for the housing for the electronics, the Time diagram shows that it can support the weight of 3 SUV's running over it.
9. Thanks to SUBWAY (tm), Jared lots a whole bunch of pounds. Thanks to SegWay, he can find them again.
Exactly!
One word for all the people saying how this is no better than a bike while I'm posting... Bikes are fine for college kids, which I'm assuming most of the posters of this garbage are, but not for business people. Women can't easily ride a bike wearing a skirt. Heck, men can't (or wouldn't) want to ride a bike with a suit on. Even in everyday clothes most adults wouldn't want to get sweaty or nasty from riding bikes on the way to work.
load "linux",8,1
Is anyone else sick and tired of 20 year old technology getting slapped together into some cheezy consumer product and being heralded as the cure for cancer?
The improved interface design IS revolutionary.
So is the improved "footrpint" - you could use this in a crowd.
Is a gyrosco-ped supposed to make me go out and spend a ton of money on something that is functionally useless?
Functionally useless? No. Like other vehicles, it's a foot-amplifier.
A "ton of money"? Depends on the denomination. How much would you pay for a good motorcycle? Now how much would you pay if you could use it on the sidewalk without getting busted? Now how much LESS would you pay if you couldn't use it at highway speed?
Like most new tech it will start with an early-adopter gee-whiz pay-off-the-development look-how-rich-I-am premium. Let's see whether they can make it affordable in a couple years.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I'm sure someone else has posted a link to the videos by now, but here it is again anyway. Pulling down the QuickTime version was a very fast download for me just a few minutes ago.
I give this thing 2 maybe weeks from start of public sale before the "extreme sports" assholes start successfully modding them to go faster at the expense of battery life, and maybe remove the handlebars, and become a public nuisance on city sidewalks just like the skate-rats are now. Expect cities to come up with entire new revenue streams as they pass Segway Speed Limit ordinances and it becomes possible to get pulled over and get a ticket on the sidewalk.
~Philly
problems:
1)you just increased the amount of area a person needs to travel, when compared to walking.
2)When walking, you can bumo into people with little to no effect, what happens when your doing it a 8 MPH?
3)what happpens when you run of someones toes? far mor likely to happen then steppin on someones toes.
4)If people can't be bother to look fo bikes and motorcucles, why would this be less likely to be hit?
5)what happens when you fall forward/backwards?
6)Is your employer going to pay for the electricity so you can charge it at work?
pluses:
1) the balancing technology can be put to many other devices.
2)will see them in cheesy sci-fi shows in about 5 years.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
However, the problem with scooters is that being gasoline powered, they still spew out air pollution--and scooter engines aren't as tightly-regulated as automobiles in terms of exhaust emissions.
The biggest selling point about Segway is its ZERO effective turning radius. That makes it at once useful for built-up urban areas.
Anyway, with more and more cities being designed to be bicycle-friendly, Segway--especially with the improvements I mentioned over time--could become a very viable short-range personal transport vehicle, especially if you can fold it down to the same space as a folding bicycle so you can carry it through subways and commuter trains.
If you are walking down a sidewalk and pestered by somebody on a Segway...
1. Stay in front of it to block it for a second or two.
2. Reach over the bars and yank out the key card.
3. Run like hell.
They will never catch you, because you are in good shape from walking and they are not. They will be stuck on the sidewalk with a $3000 push-cart. It's the perfect crime.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Forget hype. I have no problem with deserved hype. see apple commercial with hammer.
I can go 15 miles or more on my bike, try that on this.
A can zip between cars on a bike.
this thing is more dangerous in a collision. If I get hit by a car on my bike, I go on top of the car, you get hit on this and you'll go under the car.
My bike is pratical on the street, this is not(too wide) that means you'll be on the sidewalk, with pedestrians, that means a) you'll be travelling the same speed as the walker, b)bigger foor print.c)laibility when you injure some one by running over their foot.
2 inch step? haha, geet the thing to go over a standard curb, or it immediatly become more of a hassle for the user.
I can not stress this enough, crowds. it is too big for crowds.
If he made it skate board shaped, it would be far more practical.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You missed the best part of the Amazon product page:
Customers who shopped for this item also shopped for these items:
* Playboy (1994) VHS ~ Ginger Lynn Allen
* Girls Gone Crazy DVD
* Invincible, Michael Jackson
* Corporate Cults by Dave Arnott
load "linux",8,1
A chunk of the 3k is going to liability insurance.
The NY Times article references both Andy Grove and John Doerr's concerns that it will spark a feeding frenzy among the contingency fee lawyers.
So, why don't you go bump into someone who weighs 65 lbs above average at 17mph and tell us how it feels? Better yet, what if they're going 17mph in the opposite direction?
At that speed you have a non-zero stopping distance, so you need to ride in a place where there are well-understood rules that reserve a right-of-way for a safe distance in front of you. This is the same reason that sensible cyclists ride in the road and behave like drivers of vehicles. People who don't understand this principle think they must avoid riding in traffic at all costs, and get themselves badly hurt crossing driveways on the sidewalk at bicycle speeds.
Those massive speeding hunks of metal in the road make cyclists/scooter-riders/whatever *more safe* rather than less, because they enforce certain rules and habits that you need to ride safely at any useful speed.
(Note, however, that despite the safety advantages of riding like a vehicle, it is also *not* illegal everywher to ride bikes on the sidewalk, as other posters have claimed, although some local governments do have laws that restrict riding on the sidewalk in some areas. Riding on the sidewalk is safe if you ride extremely slowly and treat every driveway and intersection as if it had a stop sign. When traffic is really bad, sometimes this is actually a useful alternative to have....)
---J. Bruce FieldsThis thing seems designed to spill you on uneven pavement. It's true that twice walking speed is better than faster (more time to see the pot holes, less damage when you hit), but it sure isn't for anyone over 30. Even when younger falls tend to cause broken bones, and falls in traffic are much worse!
Bicycles have large wheels for several reasons, and one of them is so that small holes in the road don't cause you to spill. (You may need to work hard to keep you balance, but you have a chance.)
When Vespa's were popular, there was talk of banning them, and this was the reason. But this thing has even smaller wheels, so it will be more sensitive to pot holes than a Vespa even dreamed of being. It may not tip sideways, but if the wheel drops into a hole, it may buck quite badly. A large pot hole (one where the front wheel descended more than half way) would guarantee an instant halt to the machine, but not to the driver. And the axles looked quite exposed to mud. This can't be good, but I don't know how bad the maintenance would be. (That may not be a fundamental flaw, but the wheel size appears to be one.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Living proof that Anonymous Cowards should always be allowed on Slasdot. With one rhetorical question this guy said everything that needs to be said about the Segway. Bravo.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Don't you mean a giant translucent spider?
-no broken link
See, we lived in Montreal. We know all about snow.
You need clearance and wheels that won't follow a rut in a stroller, or you won't get very far. Some people have managed ski-type attachments for strollers.
So, yeah, such a thing, in its present form, would be pretty much useless there almost half the year. But that doesn't mean its worthless the other half, nor should people who don't live in such harsh climates be denied it's utility because it is of less value to you. What was that point about arrogance?
You could've hired me.
seems great for new yorkers commuting from upper west/east side down to wall st...manhattan is what, 7 or 8 miles long? you could do the r/t on one charge, or charge it up at work...cities will probably offer incentives so people will buy them, kind of like the transitcheck program in nyc...remember, the subway is like $50/month with metrocard, right? that's $600/year...so let's say the city offers you a $600 rebate, then you pay $2400 and recoup the cost in 4 years (plus you can use it to escape muggers in central park -- bonus!)...a 4 year loan on $2400 is around $50/month, which is what you would have paid for the subway anyway...hopefully it has a 5 year warranty!!
don't know if I'd try it in wintertime, though, your face might freeze off at 12.5 mph -- unless you wore ski goggles or something...but in summertime it would be great with the breeze you make as you cut up park ave at 12.5mph...
one question: how do you tell which is yours in the parking lot? not much room for personalization...maybe there's a business here...be the first to design custom segway wheelcovers, yes!!!
and what about a headlight for those late night starbucks runs??
I think the problem a lot of /.ers have is that it is being compared to the car. The Segway won't replace anyone's car; it may, however replace the wheelchair, or if it becomes lighter, faster, and cheaper, the bike.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
3. What do you do when the weather gets cold? I have a 5 mile drive to work, and the temperature was a paltry -9*F (-23*C). You think I'm going to sit on an exposed seat and let the wind chill drop the temp to (aprox) -50*F (-46*C)? Guess again. I used to deliver newspapers on my bike in the morning, years ago. At least then I was exurting effort, thereby keeping myself warm. With the Segway, I have no such advantage.
Thanks, but no thanks.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Why 2 wheels? Because 3 would be 'stable' and leaning would be a problem. With 2 wheels, leaning is what provides the lion share of the propulsion, with batteries running the balancing computer and stabiliser. With 3 wheels, the batteries would need to provide propulsion, making the effective range of the thing so small as to make the device pointless.
Sharper Image has been selling motorized scooters for some time now. They are junk toys for bored executives. This is different entirely.
Two side by side wheels require active stabilization, but allow the lean of the rider, the placement of the rider's center of gravity, to power movement. The 'controlled fall' and stabilization are the true breakthroughs here.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Did you ever think that they would outlaw smoking in US cities? Not in buildings, but on the sidewalks?? Well, they have.
Give the West Coast a chance.. L.A., with it's smog and fad-o-philia, just might pass an ordnance restricting emissions to such a ridiculous level that a Segway becomes a viable option for people running between opposite ends of town.. Especially since you can fit one of these things in your standing space on a bus or subway (granted, with a little ramp to off/load it.
For that matter, look at many European cities, especially those with 'old' cobble-stone sections where cars and motorcycles are not permitted..
And hell, if the price halves in a couple of years, I'll buy one just for the whiz-bang 'skiing without the snow' factor.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
What? Are you kidding? Not drive, just because there is snow on the ground? How the hell am I supposed to get around for 4-5 months out of the year? (I live in Anchorage, AK) Not only do we drive on the snow and ice (with the help of studded or "siped" tires, such as the blizzak) we actually RACE on it. Oh, yeah. We race using motocycles too.
But in the car, you have shelter from the elements (and a heater too!), on the motorcycle (racing at least), you have exursion pushing the bike around (not to mention the heat of the engine between your knees). The Segway takes both of those benefits away.
It looks like a cool toy/tool, and it certainly has its uses, but I'm sure not going to be replacing my car any time soon.
Realize that what's so special about this thing is that it has no controls of any sort, other than the handlebars. The device has only one function: Stay upright. That's it. If you lean forward a bit, the device will roll forward to prevent you from tipping. Lean backward and it goes backward. Now, that's not to say you can't knock the thing over, but the whole point of the device is to make it damn near impossible.
That said, it won't stop on a dime, I guarantee that. If you're booking along at 12 MPH, and granny walks in front of you, granny is gonna get plowed.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Thank god I'm not the only one. I thought I was getting REAL early onset of Alzheimer's or something.
Or maybe it was that twelve years I spent on toouer with Jerry.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
From the website:
"Step on Segway HT, and your instinct will be to steady yourself, as you would on anything with two wheels."
So if your first instinct is to try and balance the thing, what's the first instinct of people around you, who have seen more than their fair share of people flying down the road on bikes, skateboards, and scooters, only to wipe out?
It seems to me that people would be scared to be on the sidewalk alongside one of these things, even if this fear is unfounded. Regardless, I have a feeling that, because of that fear, you'll see a few restrictions on this thing pretty fast, should it get popular.
The following was a post by Ben FrantzDale to a Mudd mailing list:
IT (aka Ginger, aka Segway) appears to be an automatic two-wheeled
unicycle, in that the fore and aft stability is attained through dynamic
stabilization. Having used a unicycle around Boston, Mudd and RPI, I
definately think it's a good mode of short to medium distance
transportation (i.e., a range of a mile or so).
The shareholder is always right.
What happens when one motor fails? The thing will turn in circles and is too heavy to lug around.
you should read the article. You were right in guessing that each wheel has its own motor. however, they are each the backup motor for the other. so if one breaks down, the good motor takes over. same kind of redundancy goes for the dual "sisterboards" inside the chassis that house the logic circuitry.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
I read your thread, and as everyone else is pointing out it really is absolute drivel.
I live about 25 miles away from my work, not a bad deal because I take the local light rail in. Problem is the nearest stop is a little under a mile away. So, often times I drive my car there and park and ride. Switching to Segway for this would be awesome. Gas costs alone over the course of three years for my vehicle would overcome the expenses of buying a Segway.
Also, 3 nights a week I go to kung fu. The school is about a mile away from a different light rail stop - and for effiency and time sake i have to drive an additional 3 miles to go to a light rail stop past the traffic congestion so I can make it to kung fu on time. Now, I take my time hit in the morning when often times it will take me about 30 minutes to go 3 miles - that isn't good gas mileage. Having a segway would enable me to ride to the close light rail stop, take it to work, take the light rail after work to the stop near my kung fu school ride there and back, then back home. Easy, efficient, and very practical considering I never carry anything more than my laptop bag/backpack combo.
I know I'm not the only one who has transportation patterns similar; in fact 2 other people I work with are very excited about it for nearly the same reasons. The rest of your arguments (in this parent and your other) are just idiotic and irrational. Many people would like this. I'll probably be buying one when they come available - another perk is I don't have to leave my car at the light rail stop where it can be broken into or damaged.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Now, ask my lazy ass if I would be willing to ride a device that I simply stood on, stabilized so that its much harder to fall of than a bike or scooter, to travel those 4 miles? Yeah, I would.
Now, ask MY lazy ass if I would be willing to drive a device with leather seats, a kickass stereo system, all-wheel drive, climate control, protection from the weather, and room for my friends, beer, girl, whatever to sit in it too AND all this without having to stand up?
Yeah, I would.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
What's the difference?
About $2,700
About 12 months
About 70 pounds
Ohh yeah, all of today's electric scooters have one wheel in front, and one in the back. This one has them side-by-side.
Sharper image has one called "X2" available on their website at www.sharperimage.com.
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
You hit it right on the head. Here are the top problems I see with IT:
1. Stairs. Especially in Europe, where I see a potential huge market because of the design of their cities, they have a lot of stairs.
2. Weather. A car is more than transport, it's a weather sheild. I don't want to ride in 110 degree Texas heat with no a/c. Besides, how could you get laid in it?
3.Security. How do you lock this thing up? Looks easy to steal.
4. Suspension. Is there any? The first good pothole may finish this thing off, or force the rider to visit the oral surgeon.
5. Safety & stupidity. We're dealing with people and something new that moves. Bad combination.
I see plenty of specialty and industrial applications as well as a home enthusiast market, but no one is going to redesign trillions of dollars of urban infrastructure for this thing.
The two limiting issues I see with this as a product are battery life/recharge time and how it handles curbs. Every day I drive 30 minutes, pay to park, board a ferry boat, ride the ferry for an hour, then walk 15 minutes to work from the boat. Could I use a Segway? If it made it easier to get around in Downtown Seattle, then yes, I could. The major difference between walking and riding is the way you deal with curbs. I have a very good friend who is in an electric wheelchair. He certainly gets around, but he has to travel a little further to find the places where there are curb cuts. I'm imagining that if I'm riding a Segway on the sidewalk (if I'm in the street I'd probably be run over), then I'm having to actively look for curb cuts and/or lift the Segwey over curbs. I'm really skeptical about how well that will work. Also, how long will it take to recharge? If it takes six hours (like some reports say), then that's probably too long to be useful in some cases. Also, if I run out of juice somewhere, what do I do? drag it? I guess I'm on the fence as to what I think of it. It seems like pretty cool technology that might fit into people's lives, but I'm not totally sure until I actually get a chance to use one and find out how well it handles curbs, stairs, bumps, etc and the power issue.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
First, I have to say, very cool. I saw the demo this morning and I can't wait to buy one.
Inevitably, people will hack these things as they do everything else. How would you trick your's out? Here's some ideas:
The third wheel in close, without gyros, gives you the approximate stability of a unicycle with training wheels. The center of gravity is 2-1/2 to 3 feet high. The support points are 6 to 12 inches out from the center. That's stable support when it doesn't move, but for stability in motion you need the wheels to be out from the center by more than the CG height. Bumps, turns, acceleration, and deceleration all require the rider to lean correctly or it will topple. If you can do that, you can probably ride a skateboard or one of the scooters that is basically a skateboard with a handle. The over-forty crowd generally avoids things like that -- I'm not sure how much is actual slower reflexes, and how much is just realizing that you aren't invulnerable... (I've known I'm vulnerable since I was five years old and p*ssed on a rattlesnake, but I have far less faith in my ability to _bounce_ than I used to.)
Ginger drives the wheels to match the rider's lean. This is like having a bicycle that automatically steers left when you lean left -- and Ginger also goes forward when you lean forward, and slows down or reverses when you lean back. If this is done well, (which takes lots of gyros and CPU's), it will be fairly hard to tip over, as long as you don't run off the sidewalk or into something. It's an exremely intuitive interface, since human walking also depends on leaning, then sticking out your foot before you fall.
However, you'd better be careful about leaning towards things that interest you but you don't actually want to run into... Humans can lean a bit in any direction on their feet before they have to start walking or fall, but the two-wheel Ginger has to react to the least little fore-and-aft lean. So a the third wheel would help here. But that still requires all the gyros and CPU's.
Is it standard behavior around here to just shoot your mouth off without even reading about the topic in question?
Moderators and posters alike seem to be struck by idiocy here. Your job as a moderator isn't just to rate how much like the poster's writing, it's also to filter out totally inaccurate information. And there are a lot of high-rated posts on this topic that are totally incorrect.
I've seen people posting that this creature travels at 17mph. It's 12, according to the segway site.
I've seen people questioning the maximum range of 17 miles. The advertised effective range is 11 miles.
People complain about lack of cargo ability. They say there is a planned attachment that will pull 300 lbs of cargo.
The Time article says it is available now to corporations for around $8000, and will be available to the general public next year for $3000.
Shame on you morons who can write but can't read. Then again, you can't read this, either.
The one truly valid objection I have is that even at 12mph, it's still 3-4 times faster than most pedestrians. Most cities don't allow bicycles, which usually stick to around 12mph in the city, to ride on the sidewalk. So without good bike lanes everywhere, riding one of these around town could be difficult or dangerous.
Absolutely, you try sticking a bike in a crowded office building that has a small bike rack that is usually not only full but in a stupid location, find a good place at a kung fu school, and carrying a bike on a light rail during rush hour is just idiotic. Carrying something that can double for a place to put your bag an takes up little room is much more reasonable.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The reason I drive is because while a bike would be fine for the six cool yet sunny days of the year that I'm told is the quota for Chicago, it is just not practical between the potholes, road construction, crazy drivers, and the weather.
Speaking of weather, between the consecutive weeks of freezing temperature and the liberal use of salt on the roads, I doubt IT would last a single winter in Chicago.
Another consideration... the neighborhoods I have to drive through to get to and from work, I wouldn't want to be going through in the middle of the night in the exposed transport of a bicycle or IT.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
I live in downtown Bellevue. There is no downtown. It is a mall, an on ramp, and a safeway. Which, by the way, is 5 miles from downtown Seattle, and you think a 45 minute commute is easy?!!!
You'd get there on a Segway. Or walking across I90
Speed: 12.5 mph (20kph)
Range: up to 17 miles (28k) on single charge
Turning Radius: zero
Payload:
Passenger- 250lbs (110kg)
Cargo- 75lbs (38kg)
Future offboard cargo module- 300lbs (135kg)
Platform Height: 8in (20cm)
Footprint: 19x25in (48*63.5cm)
Weight: 80lbs (36kg)
It has redundant motors. Unless two motors fail it won't spin around in circles. In fact all the major parts are redundant... I sort of wonder if that's what attributing to the price tag.
As for supermarkets, Think of all the contraptions they already allow in there. Old ladies with motorized wheel-chairs, walkers and even many even offer motorized shopping carts. It's certainly possible that these will be allowed in Supermarkets and what-not. It really depends a lot on who the early adopters are. Nerds? Or people who have trouble walking?
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Hmm...
IT costs $3,000.
So does an Apple Powerbook G4.
A car costs $20,000 and requires insurance.
IT could easily get me to the supermarket or the subway in a lot less time than it takes me now, and wouldn't aggravate my asthma as much as walking uphill in dry winter air.
So, why am I not supposed to think this is "affordable"?
It was an example. I certainly wouldn't want him in control of a vehicle with a top speed of 17 mph, the device in principle could be very useful to anyone with limited mobility.
And the brethren went away edified.
Well, not at that speed anyway. But each person has different needs, and anyone that tries to sell you a solution that fits all disabled people is selling you snake oil. Clearly IT would not be the best thing for absolutely everyone. Occupational therapists can teach some of the most severly disabled people enough to function in society; teaching how to use IT to those for whom it would be suitable is just the sort of thing they do.
And the brethren went away edified.
http://everythingisnt.com/2001_12_02_control_archi ve.html#7626223
Uhm, because the gyros and the boards are what keeps it stable? Would you like a gyro or board to fail when you're leaning forward going at max speed, and have it fall over?
8mph is about the same as average car speeds during rush hour in London, and I'm sure it's not much better in other crowded cities.
Which means there's a good chance of getting people to buy them.
And Kamen isn't the only one that is convinced. Doerr (one of the main investors) hasn't exactly gotten where he is today by gambling.
How can the gyros require no battery power? What keeps them moving, perpetual motion?
just my blog and pix
Simple, it's called time.
Getting off work at 5:15, a 30 minute train ride, and walking a mile to get there in under 15 minutes (excluding train delays which are often) so I can be there when class starts at 6 would be exceptionally difficult.
Traveling at an average speed of 8mph would drastically improve my chances of getting there on time.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Unlikely to be able to take it indoors with you. The wheels are going to get muddy- people hate muddy wheel tracks on their carpet.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Regardless, it's not a less good version of existing battery powered bikes. If you think so, try, say, retrieving books from closed stacks in a library on a bike, battery-powered or not. It doesn't work. For one thing, the pain of getting on and off is going to keep you from doing it. For another thing, the maneuverability is all wrong. For another, the bike requires the ability to raise your leg as high as your waist, balance, support yourself, etc. IT requires the ability to step 1 foot up and stand. It's a huge difference. The profile of the device is vastly different and thus works in a lot of places the other doesn't. The fact that it has some rather innovative technology to deal with an engineering hurdle (2 wheels and balance) makes it pretty cool.
And I can carry 65 pounds quite a long way; you don't speak for my weaknesses. If the thing runs out of batteries, it should have a free-wheel mode so you can just drag it. That's not a hard configuration to pull; I've seen little old ladies haul 150 lbs in a garden cart up a hill without breaking a sweat. I don't know what your problem is.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
get me wrong, gyroscopes and no pollution rock in my book
No pollution?
No pollution from manufacturing? No pollution from the electric power plants you use to charge the battery? No pollution in disposing the batteries?
Sorry, once again hype outruns reality. This thing will generate pollution throughout it's life cycle. Admittedly far less than a car, but it will exist none the less.
I've always had a problem with handicap ramps. Whilst we depended upon stairs, we were pretty much safe from dalek invasion. Putting wheelchair ramps in all over the place leaves us wide open.
Fortunately I have a solution. If you bolt/weld a steel hemisphere about 3-4" radius in the middle of every wheelchair ramp, legitimate wheelchair users can pass easily whilst daleks will be completely thwarted.
Looks like it'll get Segway riders as well.
Should I post this as AC or not? Moderation will tell.
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
Sure, the low-speed bit is nice, but not essential. You want to stop on a bike, you take your foot off the pedals and put it on the ground. Problem solved. :-) I admit it's a nice solution for accessing library/storage stacks, and the whole gyro-and-active-control-system thing is way cool, but I still don't rate it for everyday transport.
Not having to step up? So it's the difference between a motor scooter and a proper motorbike? Big deal.
As for carrying, it simply isn't designed for that. Sure, you can carry 65lbs a long way in a rucksack - so can I (and have done, for weeks at a time). It's still a lot for someone to pull up a hill, especially if the hauler isn't particularly fit (and that's the target audience for this gizmo). And carrying 65lb up stairs with an unfriendly package is _difficult_. Could you hold your 65lb pack at arms-length whilst climbing up stairs? Bcos given the shape of this gadget, that's basically what you'd have to do. If you can then MUCH respect to you, but as someone who has obviously done some serious weights, you're not really representative of the typical population, are you? So train/subway into town and then scooter onwards isn't really an option, at least for stations with stairs. Escalators/elevators though would make this a more practical solution.
Grab.
You have never been to Paris have you? With mixed use 7 floor construction, you really can have everything in walking distance. Subways are there for the elderly and infirm.
Some early US suburbs, like Uptown New Orleans, got it right too. It's a little more spread out, but there is no need for a car. Work was concentrated Downtown and on the river. A system of trolleys used to get people there who could not walk. The neighborhoods themselves had all the basics of living, groceries, entertainment, libraries, parks and shopping in walking distance. Newer suburbs were built around this to take advantage of all the nice restaurants and what not. They were inconveinent to live in. As the core of the city is dying of crime and dismal public schools, the suburbs are being abandoned as well.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.