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Dirty Dozen- The Most Dangerous Toys of 2001
An anonymous reader pointed us to The Dirty Dozen
which lists the most dangerous toys for children. #1 on the list is Metal Gear Solid 2 (which I finished this weekend and highly recommend)
Also making the cut are Gundam and Dragonball Zaction figures (nothing scarier then Bulma on a bad hair day I guess), Super Street Fighter II and Doom. Of course the specific version of doom they classify as one of the most dangerous toys of 2001 is the Game Boy Advanced port, and I gotta agree with them on the GBA thing, those things are dangerous. Play for more then 30 minutes, and you go blind.
I thought video games were responsible for all the world's injuries these days...
Sounds like a shopping list to go buy each one to me ...
"So, what should we put on the list this year?"
"Anything from Japan"
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
12 Days of Christmas ... 12 Dangerous Toys ... Coincidence? I think not.
Looks like the dangerous toy is an action figure inspired by the game and not the game itself....
I spent a lot of my time playing FPS style games, but I was 17 years old + (today I'm 29) and I was mature enough to realize that it's a game, and that there's nothing fun about violence except when it's in a movie or in a video game.
I would NOT let a 10 year-old play Quake 3 or Half-Life. Just like I wouldn't let the same kid watch a porno movie or a gory horror film.
I feel it desensitizes a child too much. So I have to say I agree.
It should be noted that #1 on the list is the MGS2 Solid Snake ACTION FIGURE, not the game.
For the record, they listed the MGS-based action figures as dangerous, not the game itself. This was due to the fact that the figures were recommended for ages 5 and up.
The site looks like it's more about a "dangerous influence" than anything else. These toys aren't dangerous because of small parts, ineffective hydraulic seals, reactor leaks, or rambunctious atom-smashers. They're "dangerous" because they promote violence in kids.
I have yet to see any well-controlled study linking violent toys/games with violent behavious later in life. This site is just another attempt to impose one person's lifestyle on another's children.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
This is ridiculous. Next it'll be hungry hungry hippos because it promotes bad table manners.
Video games are rated 'M' for mature, yet their toys are rated for ages 5 and up. Brand association, right?
For parents that want to "protect" their children from violent games, I think the list serves a valuable purpose.
Lawn darts... they were my favorite. We used to make the neighbor kid catch 'em.
90% of the items they listed are not dangerous themselves. What is dangerous is anyone with a warped mindset you would think, for example, that you can go around killing people with BFG's from Doom or go "karate-krazy" and start fighting people because you have some Dragonball toy.
In other words, these toys are not dangerous. As the site specifically states in each rationalization of the purpose for being listed on their site, it is the *children* that are dangerous.
What's next? DVD copies of Farenheit 451, because it incites arson?
Anyways I still remember an SNL skit of a toy manufacturer with "Bag `O Broken Glass" and "Play Doctor Medical Waste Goop" .... now those were some toys, but video games that promote violence. How about you get mom and dad to quit yellin at each other through the stress of X-Mas? Erm wait, it's toys that make people corrupt not unbearable living enviroments.
But yeah ... I will be giving out rocks for this years holliday season ... maybe I'll put a slashdot on um so I can sell ... my pet slashdot rock.(C) :-)
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Seriously, this is just another Frontpage 4.0 built site from a mother who saw too much violence in her kid's toys and decided to put together a small site with her opinions on what toys are bad influences on young minds.
Wasn't that the beauty of the Internet? To give each and every person a place to express their opinions and ideas, regardless of just how silly it is?
Also, I "think" they are the "founders" of the "quotation mark" fan club.
Cool! Zoids are back! While not exactly like the zoids of yesteryear, they look cool nonetheless. I like how they provide links to all these fun toys for easy holiday shopping.
and why does their opinion matter? anyone can put up a webpage and say "this sucks" or "this is bad for you" that doesnt make it newsworthy...
as soon as the CDC makes a stand THEN it becomes news.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
If we're worried about toys that promote violence, I wonder why there's no mention of those Topps trading cards featuring all the big names in Operation Enduring Freedom and all the different weaponry at work, etc.
I guess Doom's mistake was that it promotes the killing of aliens instead of Afghans.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Uh... "Shadow Cat" listed as one of the most dangerous toys?
It's only a 45-ton 'mech, for God's sake!
Every now and then my Timber Wolf steps on those things and I won't even notice anything special happens!
Here are some other dangerous toys that didn't make that list.
Is to block this site from their parents using parental control...
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
Heh.. People are amusing these days.. My son loves DBZ, I love it, my mom loves it. It's not as realistically violent as Looney Tunes. I mean, so Goku shoots out some sort of flaming orb. Tom and Jerry chase each other with knives (something children have seen with their own eyes) yet Tom and Jerry is acceptable because it's a "classic" ? It's bullshit. Years ago people played with GI Joes. DBZ action figures are harmless. If my son wants to pretend to shoot some spirit bomb on me, that's fine. It's better than him chasing me down with a steak knife.
I think that CmdrTaco needs to redo the headline. This organization is trying to get rid of violent toys. Dangerous is definitely a misnomer here.
I would agree that many of theses toys (and games) should not be marketed to small children yet many of them sell toys to kids under the recommended age for the games. A bit of sleaze but nothing that unusual for marketdroids.
That had this label on it:
A NGER.jpg
http://www.engrish.com/images/recentdiscoveries/D
Well, gameboy advance version is NOT rated M. it is rated Teen [warning warning shockwave intro]
Unless you find green blood realistic.
But how are they going to solve the halflife port. That had a lot of blood in it!
gotta love parents who can't watch their kids and rely on websites, rating systems, and the government to choose what their children do.
ah, modern family is so loving and caring with modern technology.
Runnin' On Empty
Seems like information is used as the tool these days to get something done. The toys these days may often be games; however, they do suggest the operator to complete the reality. Its no longer physical means to accomplish something, but thoughts or suggestions.
Take our government for instance. When they want something done, they rarely use force anymore, but use legal means and the written word to invoke change. This causes other people to act and follow their vision.
I didn't realize there even were video game ratings when doom came out. Was Doom really rated mature for the PC? Maybe they meant to say Doom 2, or "we assume it was rated M." I guess the BFG put it over the edge . . .
How long will it take for Americans to realize that toys, movies, TV, etc don't make people turn into bad people? Also, when will we understand that when a murderer blames his actions on his childhood, he's FULL OF SHIT? Listen, everyone has an inert understanding of right and wrong, no matter what you hear. Doom doesn't make kids want to go out and kill each other, craziness does. Some people are just insane, that's all there is to it. Other people don't understand consequences because their parents and the rest of society haven't taught them that when you do something wrong, you get punished for it, no matter what your excuses are.
As a personal reference, I have been on trips to Europe lately and the one thing I noticed is their total lack of sensitivity towards children in media. What I mean is that all over their TV programs there is sex, drugs, violence, bad language, etc. Rather than hearing a report about Taliban deaths, they show you the body parts strewn all over the place from the bombs. Europe has their problems, of course, but the way they handle these types of things is much better than the way we do. Everything is out in the open and the result is the kids understand real life instead of sheltered life, and I think it results in more mature people. That's just my own opinion though, flame if you want.
~ now you know
If only it were socially acceptible for parents to actually take some time out of their busy schedules of driving their SUVs around and watching their own television to actually, I dunno, parent their kids sometime.
Then these lists would be ignorable, because parents could see for themselves which shows their kids are watching on TV, how much homework their kids are doing, and what kinds of games are ok and not-ok for the kids to play.
Supervision of children used to be a pretty big deal, and you could get charged with neglect for not doing it, so how are all these Soccer Moms getting away with completely ignoring the content they buy for their kids until its too late?
Should responsible people really take all this crap from a demographic known for recording South Park (which is on at midnight in most areas) so their 12 year old can watch it?
"Look at me, I invented the stove!" -- Ben Franklin
I thought Christains loved war (ever read the Bible?), its just sex they couldn't stand.
Kids who grew up on a farm knew all about sticking pigs and chopping off chicken heads for dinner, as well as procreation. They shouldn't so be isolated from 'reality', it just creates people who are so darned squimish they donate money to PETA and worry about rabbits getting a rash from testing cosmetics on them.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
It's the same bullshit we're more accustomed to reading from Jamie and Michael -- whenever a government or organization takes action, they piously declare that aprents should take responsibility for their children. And then it's a fundamental assault on freedom when parents decide to parent instead of following the prescribed "Your Rights Online" way of life.
I've managed to learn not to flame most of the hypocrisy here ("A new patch for a Windows bug -- the closed source development model is so buggy! A new Linux kernel patch -- look how quickly the open-source model finds and fixes bugs!") but I find this one so offensive it pushes my buttons every time.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
IOW, "we're as serious about not marketing to kids as RJ Reynolds!"
hawk, who wishes he could include a
"Kill him! Kill him! Kill him!" I was watching my son play with a friend's hand-held video game -- a game both boys had earnestly assured me was not violent. The outburst occurred because my six-year-old was not as adept as his friend in manipulating the game: He was not killing fast enough.
:)
Way to go kid! I hope her kid is one of the American pilots strafing Al Queada targets right now. Looks like that hand-held video game might have been good training for him.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
they just give me a reson to buy the item.
seriously, it sounds like half the resons for including them in the list are taken right from the frigen box!!
I guess they feel that the "resoning" behind the resons listed are self-evident. I am not so sure.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
What about the ever popular "bag of glass" or how about the loved "self tatooting kit?"
I have to disagree. I and many friends of mine have played these games since our early teens (I'm 19 now for reference), and we still avoid sites like rotten.com because of their disgusting nature.
Here's a page with links to previous years' Dirty Dozen lists.
I am always surprised when they list Nerf toys as dangerous and encouraging kids to be violent. It's Nerf for goodness sakes!
Not only that, but when they do single out a Nerf toy, it's usually one of the pathetically underpowered ones. Case in point: Their 1988-89 Dirty Dozen List shows the Nerf Pulsator as the top offender. My favorite gripe of theirs: "box refers to the darts as "ammo."".
But, as a parent, I think I can tell which toys are too explicitly (or even suggestively) violent for my child. And even if I didn't know anything about software and video games, they now have a ratings system that tells me which age group for which they are most appropriate.
I think the thing that disturbs me most about this is not that some people would compile a list like this - people are free to state their opinions about toys and games all they want - it's that parents would rely so heavily on these types of lists to make their decisions for them. To me, it's just further evidence of a parent's wish to simply not be bothered or involved.
If you really want to have some influence on what your kids are getting into, then for the love of all things good, GET INVOLVED. Use some common sense! Do you want your kids considering guns as toys? No? Then don't buy them gun-wielding toys. It's a pretty simple concept. Don't want your kids to get the idea in their head that head-to-head combat is Good Thing[tm]? Then don't buy them fighting games. It's all very, very common-sensical. There are lots of toys from which to choose. Pick the ones with which you feel most comfortable.
My sigs always suck.
Actually, where I grew up there was a small but dedicated group of meddlers that tried to get stores to not carry GI-Joe or other "dangerous influence toys" every year. About once a year (usually during Christmas time) they would stage a protest against violence in toys and get an article in the paper. As far as I know, no major store ever really listened to them, but that didn't seem to slow them down. These days it's all the same, except that now they can get instant worldwide publication through the internut.
I read the internet for the articles.
This is just prime example of how liberal, touchy feely, public interest groups are ruining America. I am just waiting for them to suggest frilly pink panties as a perfect gift for little boys. No wonder Middle Eastern terrorists thought we were soft and an easy target. The front cover of the New York Post today showed how Palestinian children play -- with fake bombs strapped around their chests while practicing military assaults.
For God's sake, lets let boys be boys for Christmas. Don't make Santa deliver wimpy toys. Jesus was not born and died on a cross for that.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
How could they miss GTA3? They'd probably have coronaries if they ever saw that game...now I can just see it...oh that's a cool looking driving game..neat! Um did you just hit that person? Um did you just hit that cop and old lady? Why are you using the side view of the car? ARE YOU SHOOTING THOSE PEOPLE???? Hey your guy got out of the car...hey you just hit that old lady with a baseball bat...HEY why are you clubbing her corpse...is that blood? A molotov what? Those people are all on fire...there's flaming cars everywhere...STOP IT...he's already dead!
hehe...naturally it goes on for a solid hour >:) But seriously folks, these people don't necessarily represent all Christians!
Wow, I remember back in the day when the toys rated to be dangerous ACTUALLY POSED SOME PHYSICAL THREAT. Little plastic guns to choke on, rivets that pop out and can hit you in the eye, Power Wheels batteries that explode, failed brakes on bicycles... What ever happened to Dan Akroyd and the Bag of Broken Glass, Bag of Rusty Nails, and Bag of Sulfuric acid? REAL dangerous toys.
Now we're afraid of words, pictures, and plastic icons. Oh, I get it! It's a biblical thing!
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
I always throught Happy Fun Ball was the most dangerous SNL toy....
I sure wish they made those, though a few of the random toys out of the grocery store quarter machines probably are as "safe" as HFB...
The site says these are "Toys to Avoid" and says nothing about "Dangerous Toys". The PRIVATE ORGANIZTION'S agenda is to stop promoting violence to children, and this list is in line with that aim.
I didn't see "Most Dangerous Toys" anywhere.
This story sucks.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Cool? Definitely! This dangerous toy is a hella lot cooler than a lot of the toys I had as a kid. Voice control over a walkie talkie? Man, I might have to put this on the Xmas list. I'll teach that darn cat not to jump on the counter yet!
How... LAME.
... for the ultimate deathmatch."
Lets compare The Bible (a resource handed out to many, many children even below the age described as too young to play the games on that page) to these "Dangerous Toys":
"Super Street Fighter II: Turbo Revival"
- "My fists will have your blood on them"
Pontious Pilate: The Bible
- Washes his hands of blood
Doom
"Annihilate hell spawned demons with plasma rifles, chain guns and rocket launchers. Team up with a friend
Revelations: The Bible
- Just read any part of it
Rock Em Sock Em Robots: Head Case Robot
- This neck wrenching head collector says winning is as easy as taking candy from a baby's intestines
King Solomon: The Bible
- Commanded that a baby be cut in half
Now, if you want to ban those games, you'd better ban the bible from being read by those under 18.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
for things that "may" or "may not" be bad for a child's psychi, maybe these parents should spend that time WITH their children...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Dan Akroyd was awesome in that one. How about the black suit to ride your bike at night or the real rifle with live ammo?
(And a european parent at that)
I have no problem with the games and their content or whatever. I also hate extreme Christian tosspots like this guy. The aim of "reducing the marketing of violence to children" is, however, a laudable one. These companies put recommended ages on and then deliberatly market toys at children below that age group. My nine year old stepdaughter, like all of her classmates, has been into the Pokemon craze. The way I watch it, I don't see that there's much difference between the basic premise and dogfighting - setting pets on each other to see who wins. Admittedly, my nine year old stepdaughter does have Aspergers syndrome and therefore has a lot of trouble distinguishing what's serious and what's not.
I don't believe that banning or censoring things is the answer. I do believe that awareness and parental responsibility will help. My two year old son will soon be old enough to be influenced by what he sees and hears (he picked up the word "bugger" quickly enough). I wouldn't like him to grow up thinking that it's normal to shoot/stab/punch people.
I don't want censorship (yeah - I surf for porn now and again) what I want is responsibility. I don't want people to blame the TV or the Internet for their kids seeing graphic anal fisting (much less Taco snotting), I want them to take responsibility and educate their kids. You can't take responsibility without knowledge.
The people who run this site may be going about things the wrong way, but someone needs to highlight that there is a problem.
PS Yes, our TV news does show what actually happens when people are shot/bombed/gassed and it aint pretty. And we still don't want guns - coincidence?
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
"Your Right Online" is a very broad category, and while this story doesn't exactly fit, as noone's rights are being violated, it's the closest as this story is sort of about voluntary self censorship by parents.
It's not like CT is saying, "Look, your right are being violated!", it's more like he's saying, "Look at this silly stupid parent group! Haha!..."
And I have to agree with CT, I've played with all these kinds of toys and games and I've turned out just fine...
well, except for the killing spree I went on the other day, but I had my reasons... j/k
Lighten up...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
- The mission of The Lion & Lamb Project is to stop the marketing of violence to children.
So of course this going to release a report like this.Complaining about them is like complaining that religious fundamentalists are nuts... 1) their statements and our reactions are obvious and predictable, and 2) they usually don't have much influence on others anway.
Sadly, The Onion don't seem to have archived their story about people adopting children having to pass stringent tests whilst people having children can do as they like (corrections/links/transcripts appreciated).
There's some twisted children out there and parents who try and blame the media or the Internet (is the Internet a medium?) are just trying to dodge responsibility. If your children are cunts, it's because you made them that way.
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
A few people here have said that they'd never let a ten-year-old play Doom or Metal Gear Solid 2, let them watch gory movies, or let them play with some of these toys. Try to think of your own life and get some perspective. Was your TV viewing limited to Jesus Christ's Bible Adventures when you were ten? Do you owe your current well-being to how sheltered you were as a kid, having not seen a gun fight on TV until you were old enough to drive, and having not even HEARD of sex until you were no longer jailbait?
Personally, I don't think you do. I think you played Wolfenstein 3D and Doom when you were younger. I think you watched a few horror movies in your pre-pubescent days. I think you even hid a Playboy under your bed, or at the very least made regular visits to Playboy.com when you were twelve. And I think you certainly watched a popular kiddie show or two as a kid, and bought lots of action figures for it, too. You had G.I. Joe toys, or a Leonardo figure, or a ghost from Ghost Busters, or a big toy of the Yamato... you had those, or something very much like them. And you're fine, aren't you? In fact, you know an entire generation of people that's fine, multiple generations in fact.
Try to think of how YOU were raised and what YOUR life was like before you tell people that it's wrong for a ten year old to play Quake 3 or watch a violent movie. Stop listening to the endless stream of propaganda and actually take some time to think for yourself. These people think that they can successfully force their illogical bullshit on others if they yell loud enough and keep repeating it endlessly. Don't let them do that. Think for yourself. Maybe you'll still agree with them after you take that time to think... but I don't think you will. Because I think your life is a text book case of how to warp a child and "turn their heart dark", but somehow, by the same improbable miracle that 99% of all other people experience, you turned out fine... because this "violence desensitizes children" thing is bullshit.
And there's no way in Hell you didn't watch Looney Toons when you were a kid. There just isn't.
Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
/.'s lousy story choices before, but I mean, come on. Maybe I'm not the best journalist and maybe I didn't put all those articles in the proper categories, but I didn't see even similar articles make their way through. And then there's this. Wow. Scary. People acting stupid. That's original.
* 2001-10-27 21:34:23 FBI wants to change the achitechture of the intern (articles,usa) (rejected)
* 2001-11-01 15:49:01 ID Card proposial sneaked into law at last minute (articles,usa) (rejected)
* 2001-11-14 17:14:45 Airports attempt to censor news about crash (articles,censorship) (rejected)
I've never really complained about
And that should be "FBI wants to change architechture of the internet."
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Here's a news flash for the misguided politically-correct won't-somebody-please-think-of-the-children crusaders out there: it's not Congress's job to raise your children, it's not the toymaker's job, and it's not the school system's job -- it is your job. Furthermore, it's not your job to tell me how to raise *my* children.
If your children are fscked-up violent sociopaths, don't blame TV or video games -- BLAME YOURSELF. Electronic babysitters are no substitute for spending time with your children and teaching them how to be decent human beings. It is your responsibility to be a role model and to set a positive example for your kids. If you do not teach your children the difference between right and wrong and the difference between fantasy and reality, don't be suprised when they have trouble making those distinctions. If your children think that violence is an appropriate way of resolving their problems, it's your fault for not teaching them differently.
If you are too busy or self-centered to make your family your absolute number-one priority, do the world a favor and get a vasectomy or tubal ligation.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!
Even worse is the crap quality of the negative responses. "If your children are jerks it's your fault, not the toys", "You should spend more time parenting and less time on this website." Unbelievable. Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?
But, of course, /. hypocrites know no reason. It's techno-libertarian free internet for me, but get your site off my internet for thou. I'm sure if the story had been "Open Source Community Develops User-Driven Database of Toy Ratings" you'd all be creaming yourselves about the power of Open Source.
(You'll have to excuse me, my morning caffeine hasn't kicked in yet so I'm cranky and opinionated...)
;P) I actually have a couple Gundam models gracing my desktop, I can't really see how they're any different from non-fictional military hardware...
Okay... This is one of the dumbest things I've read all week. And that's saying alot since I've been doing a lot of Microsoft-related reading...
First off, here's something no one seems to have noticed, these folks have the Japanese to blame for 7 out of the 12 items, or atleast the shows/games these are merchandise of... (Whether it's intentional, or simply the price to be payed for making all the good games/anime, who knows...)
About the Video Games:
I think at this point, it's safe to say that if playing Doom and Mortal Kombat turned all the kids that played them into homicidal maniacs, we'd be in a lot of trouble right now. I happen to like Doom and Mortal Kombat (Though, I'm much fonder of Half-Life and Soul Calibur these days), but you don't see me running around dismembering people.
About the models:
Would they complain if their kids wanted to build a model of a REAL weapon? (Battleship/fighter plane/tank/Little Johnny's DIY Tac Nuke
In Closing (And more or less covering what I missed):
I think the poeple who are worried about the negative influence a TOY has on their kids need to keep their over-active imaginations in check. Besides, many of these toys are a little on the expensive side (for a kid), wouldn't the parents have to buy them in the first place? I think they can use their own good judgement in that endeavor.
Thanks for not instantly pulling my account for such a blatent waste of bandwidth, lol ^_^
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Now before you start complaining "But they didn't mean that kind of dangerous," I know what they meant. They meant "violent and potentially psychologically damaging to innocent young children." Now, if this is what parents are most concerned about these days, then either the world is a whole lot safer now than it was a few years ago, or those parents are unfit to raise a child. I'm sure there are many other toys out there that could physically hurt a child (if there aren't, I propose creating a small metal baseball bat and calling it the "Big Brother Basher"), and those are the toys I would consider "dangerous." If you don't want your kids exposed to violence and need someone to tell you that stuff with guns is violent, perhaps it isn't the toys that present the most danger to your kids.
Moving on to the humor side:
A series of plastic action figures based on the violent anime cartoon program Dragon Ball Z.
There's violence in that show? I admit that I don't follow the show, but I've flipped through it several times (some in an attempt to understand the appeal), and the characters are always either standing around talking, flying, staring at each other, or all blurred in scenes that resemble bizarre mating rituals. If anything, I'd be worried about kids being exposed to too much stupidity from that show, not to mention the promotional material for the toys: "front kicking action!" "side kicking action!" "double punch action!" Was this stuff written by people who make lesbian porn action figures or something?
Pilate was washing his hands of the whole affair. It was a symbolic guesture, there was no blood involved.
Solomon commanded the baby should be cut in half to get a reaction from the mothers. The baby was never harmed.
For some REAL biblical violence, try Judges 4:21, where Jael uses a hammer to drive a tent stake through the head of a sleeping Sisera, pinning it to the ground! That's good reading there.
Read a good book lately?
... Hillary Rosen declared the iPod the year's most dangerous toy.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
You remember when the most dangerous toys were actually, you know, DANGEROUS, like lawn darts, and not just politically incorrect?
SOMEONE MIGHT CHOKE ON THAT DOOM CARTRIDGE, YOU KNOW.
Pinball was a different situation. The City of Chicago banned it inside the city limits, largely, I think, because it was used for illegal gambling. Which was ironic because Chicago was the place where most of the machines were made (Chicago Coin, Chicago Dynamic Industries, etc.). Or perhaps that was why it had once gotten out of hand.
I grew up in the New York area where pinball was everywhere and considered quite harmless. Sure, if you "won" (mostly on skill) you got a free game for your quarter. But that wasn't really gambling. Indeed a good resort hotel was one where the kids' area (in those days, the early sixties, many resort hotels had supervised summer camp-like kids' programs; as a parent today, I miss them) had a *free* pinball machine (often just the door taken off the coin box). I played them the way kids today play video games. And the video game largely killed pinball by displacing it from arcades, though there are some diehard pinball fans and some machines still around.
The Lionandlamb listing is, as others have noted, a list of violent, not "dangerous", games and toys. A different list comes out every year of dangerous toys, things that can actually hurt your body. Check out http://www.toysafety.org . Most of these look innocent but have parts that come loose in the wrong way, or have some other non-obvious hazard.
Can't teach our kids to be violent, but we can teach them distorted bodily images and eating disorders.
I really miss my old Micronaut toys. The rocket launchers on those things could fire small bits of plastic at near relativistic speeds.
Please also accept that there are significant differences between people. Some people have a higher default tension level than others. This can be observed even before speech. To an extent, it can be observed in hospital nurseries, though interpreting this is, perhaps, speculative. Still, there is clear evidence of different reactions.
So it can't all be laid on parental training, either.
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
...every year around this time we see lists of the most dangerous children's toys, but no one bothers with lists of the most dangerous *adult* toys?
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
the post on Slashdot is (see other posts). I see
nothing wrong with a compiling a list of games and
toys parents _might_ want to avoid. Afterall, it is much better that a private organization makes a suggestion rather than having the government force you to do it.
However, there
is a bunch of stuff I don't like on their page.
Even programs with some violence have redeeming
factors. As much as I dislike DBZ, the redeeming
factor is that Goku is able to turn his enemies
into allies. He also constantly rejects offers
for positions of power at the right hand of the
supervillain he's fighting - choosing to defend
his life and family on Earth.
Most of these parents say that violence doesn't solve anything, yet it is safe to assume that many
of them support our bombing the heck out of
Afghanistan.
Also, one of the pages linked to refers to school outcasts, like those responsible for school shootings, as "freaks" and seems to downplay the
teasing they got at school (he mentions it only once), primarily blaming Hollywood.
These groups of parents also grew up watching westerns. The Westerns they watched were certainly
not as violent as most R Rated movies today, but
they tended to depict Native Americans and Hispanics as violent criminals and savages.
Some of these groups bash today's programming while
defending the stuff they watched - saying that their generation didn't spawn any violent killers (which is false).
I think these groups do provide a quick fix. There is nothing wrong with trying to keep your 8 year old away from games like Metal Gear Solid 2. I wouldn't let a small kid touch it, that is for sure. But I think most people ignore that we put our kids under lots of stress. We put the pressure on them to do well in school and to excel in sports or activities so that they can build up a "resume" for colleges that sport a 4.5 GPA, activity in music, and a varisty sport every term, as well as charity work on the side. It seems to have gotten even worse since my days in High School. I've heard that now parents are starting to enroll their kids in cram schools even in elementary school! People have been using these for SATs (I did well on mine without attending one of these BS schools), but it is my understanding that cram courses for AP exams and such are getting popular.
It is no wonder why people apparently get addicted to video games, where they are placed in worlds where they are heroes, and don't really have to worry about making their parents proud of them, or getting a good grade.
I think we'll probably soon see an increase in teen suicides within the next 10 years due to all of this, but I won't be surprised when honor students who do badly on one test and get yelled at by their parents don't start pulling out weapons and firing.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Their logo shows a lion and lamb playing with blocks.
Do they have any idea what lions really do to lambs?
I'd think a nature video would be far more "dangerous" to a kid's psyche(i.e. not at all) than any of those toys.
Chomp, chomp, splatter, splatter.
Mmmmm. Lamb. It's what's for dinner.
These morons have to get out of their isolated lives and realize they're living in a cocoon. Real world sucks, ladies, and if you shield your kids from it and pretend we can all hold hands and sing kumbyah, your kids will be far more messed up.
For finding me these sweet K'NEX battlemech sets. Screw christmas, I'm getting the Timberwolf (the *right* name for a madcat :) ) for myself.
-- iCEBaLM
Its quite clear that they have every right to raise their children how they see fit. If they want to help like-minded parents do the same, more power to them. Unlike PABBIS (the book banning people) they are at least not trying to impose their values on parents who feel that their children can handle violent games or movies without becoming violent themselves.
People have to get the idea that people are all different, and those differences are particularly important in childhood. Some children should not be exposed to violence because that will alter their behavior. Others can watch all the bloody movies they want and remain perfect angles. The same idea applies to books, dress, music, etc. A child's parents (most of them, anyway) know better than anyone else (including the parents of other children) what is and is not appropriate for their children. Let's leave the parenting to them, instead of having Congress or some stupid interest group interfering.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I think the hair-trigger threshold that most people around here have for unleashing verbal abuse at innocuous sites whose opinion differs from theirs constitutes its own dataset about the desensitizing effects of violence on children.
Jeez --- a private site, simply listing toys that concerned parents might want to avoid this Christmas. That's all, folks!
Well that's not all though. This same organization is lobbying the US gov't to actually STOP production of these toys. No one on slashdot is advocating shutting this site down. NOW who's afraid of a different opinion?
Has it occurred to any of you that taking the time to choose toys for your children --- instead of buying whatever crap is marketed to them --- is actually evidence of being a good parent?
Yes. And to be honest, I'd much prefer a parent actually LOOK at a toy and think FOR THEMSELVES about the good/bad qualities of it. Much better than simply reading a list of someone else's opinions and taking action on that, when you don't even know if this someone else shares any of the same values that you do.
Maybe you miss the point of why so many people find this scary. It's not a differing opinion that bothers me - it's a differing opinion forced down my throat that does. And of course using a website as an excuse to be a bad parent.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
The article is misleading; these are not dangerous toys, only toys that someone considers politically incorrect. Nothing is mentioned about any specific dangers that the toys present, only that the toys have links to violent videogames and television shows.
;)
Some of them shoot foam missiles; big deal! I think that a foot high robot that fires at room intruders is rather endearing.
Dangerous toys are things with parts that small children can choke on, stuff up their nose, or otherwise injure themselves with: sharp corners, fast-moving, massive projectiles, etc. Also, things containing dangerous substances, such as lead-based jewelry for children.
There is little connection between these properties and violence. Even in the category of fast moving things that can injure: this area is probably dominated by sporting equipment. Better not be getting your kid that hockey stick!
That one really is dangerous, because if you buy it for your kid then all the other kids at school will beat him up for being the loser who's still in to Power Rangers.
Parents beware!
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
It Is Far Better To Leave Kids With No Option But To Act Out Aggression With Peers, Rather Than With Toys.
I Mean, DUH!
Edith Keeler Must Die
Wasn't that the beauty of the Internet? To give each and every person a place to express their opinions and ideas, regardless of just how silly it is?
Yes, and another part of the Internet's beauty is our ability, and opportunity, to openly mock their silliness. I find the people rampantly flaming slashdot for presenting this amusing tidbit (and face it, it is amusing to see self-righteous people in a tizzy) just as pathetic as the flaming of those individuals who, as others have quite rightly pointed out, are simply excersizing their own discretion and (at least for the moment) are not trying to enforce their views on the rest of us (yet).
Why did I add the comments in (parenthesis)? Because groups like this often start out as self-help organizations, then quickly grow into political forces which do try to impose their views on the rest of us. MADD comes to mind (Mother Against Drunk Driving, no relation to DAMM, or Drunks Against Mad Mothers[1]) as an example. Being against drunk driving is one thing, seeking more stringent punishments and more conservative definitions of being drunk another, and successfully lobbying for a drinking age of 21 years (even though our youung people can vote and serve in the military at 18) another still. They are a group who went far beyond mutual comfort and support, and then beyond simply lobbying against drunken driving, and have successfully lobbied to increase the drinking age to IMHO an absurdly high age (making it the most disregarded law in America I suspect). Many of them wanted to take it a step further (and have, at the local level), making entire communities and regions "dry." Talk about imposing one's word view on everyone else, willing or otherwise.
For these reasons, among others, I do find open mockery, resistence, and rebuttals to the views of any self-righteous group (even those I happen to agree with) to be both healthy and important. Even flames, if that is the only way an opponent is able to express theirself, much as I find flamage to be generaly unaesthetic. If only there had been similiar rebuttals presented against MADD before they single handed criminalized alcohol consumption for every adult in America between the ages of 18 and 21.[2]
[1]DAMM is a joke, AFAIK there is no such organization in reality
[2]Excluding military personnel, who can drink on base after enlistment (but not in civilian bars AFAIK).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Yes, because the soldier doll from a mature video game is somehow magically different from the soldier doll from a Saturday morning cartoon. Conversely, if someone makes an amateur "porn" film utilizing Barbie dolls, does that suddenly mean stores should drop them from their shelves?
Furthermore, given that eight-year-olds aren't in the business of marketing toys, they're imposing on other people as well.
Completely ignoring the troll, I got a minor laugh from the title, because I read it, "What are you fucking, stupid?"
Virg
While I wholeheartedly agree with you folks who point out that games like Doom and Quake should not be for 10-year-olds, I don't agree with the review site that come down hard on these TOYS simply by association with violence, COMPLETELY neglecting to check out the storyline/theme behind the game/TV series.
:)
---
Two examples.
Recently...
"Metal Gear Solid" has a HEAVY anti-war theme, and reminds the gamer that war is about killing people, and that it's often filled with sadness. I was already an adult when "MGS" came out, but I've watched 10-12-year-old kids play "MGS" and after a while, I've seen them actually feel sorry for the genome soldiers, and they start avoiding them in-game instead of just mindlessly killing them. When asked about the game, they've all asked me things like, "Wow, war is sad, isn't it?" "Boy, being a soldier is a tough job."
---
For the story about when I was a kid... "Gundam" is, and always has been about war, and "...why people fight each other, when they can understand each other."
In virtually every Gundam, a early-teens child gets involved in battle. It tears his/her family apart, tears countries apart, friends and loved ones sacrifice their lives for each other, etc, etc... It reminds us that soldiers are people too, and most would much rather prefer peace if they had a choice. I was only 7-8 when I watched the 1979 series, but I vividly remember the scenes where Amuro had to fight in the Gundam against people he befriended, respected, and sometimes even loved. If you watch ANY of the Gundam series, you will hear over and over -- "Why must we fight? Why can we not simply understand each other?" (yet the main character has to pull the trigger to shoot down the enemy in order to protect his loved ones)
Was I scathed for life? Did I grow up violent? Heck no... I grew up respecting the men and women who fight for our country. I grew up understanding that much sadness comes from conflict. I grew up believing, to this day, that people can get along if they try. And yes.. I try. Thank you, Gundam.
So... while I can't expect the "toy review site" to put THAT much time into their review, I truly wonder if they've actually given these game/anime titles a chance. Heck, if you don't have time, at least go watch "Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket" -- that'll take all of 180 minutes or so to watch, and you'll have a VERY good idea what "Gundam" is about, and why there is such an insane following in Japan.
What I'm just saying is... take these review sites with a BIG grain of salt, and always check out things for yourself. Quake/Doom for 10-year-olds can't be good, but to blindly say "anything with guns is bad" is really short-sighted.
er.. sorry for the mini-rant..
I can't imagine too many people initially going to the site, or taking the content of the site too seriously; "oh, look honey, there's that toy that that web site said was bad, so we better not buy it for little Johnny"... yeah right.
:)
Then enter Slashdot.
Now the webmaster is looking at the site stats of hundreds of thousands of hits and is thinking "man! what a difference I'm making!". Little does he/she know that the general reaction is "geesh... what next!". Spurred on by this "success", they're already planning the next project.
For that matter, they could probably take their web logs showing the hits they are getting to some politician *spit* and show what a "great job" they're doing protecting the children of society (after all, lots of hits means it's working, right?), and get some federal funding to carry on the torch.
Oh joy.
$0.02 (CDN)
I wrote the lionlamb people this email about ssf2tr..
Hi there,
I would like to make a couple of points regarding your Dirty Dozen entry for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Revival.
From the DD list:
'The "special moves" involved in playing this game have names such as "psycho crusher," "devil reverse," "head press" and "somersault skull diver," according to the directions.'
You've listed the special move names for a single character, who (as far as the game story goes) happens to be the evil dictator that the street fighters are trying to overthrow. It only makes sense that an evil character would have evil move names. Note that other characters have nonsensical special moves like "crazy buffalo", "yoga flame", "final atomic buster", "mexican typhoon", etc.
'Children who play the game hear characters say things like, "My fists will have your blood on them" or, "You are not a true warrior!"'
Children who play the game do not hear such things. No one hears them. You've listed a couple of quotes that are printed on the screen if the player loses a match to two certain characters.
'One version, called "survival mode," requires children to kill 100 people without stopping.'
Nothing in the manual or the game itself ask children (or anyone else) to kill their opponents. It's a martial arts tournament. When you defeat a character, the game says "K.O." which means knockout, not "they're dead".
Now, given all of these points, I still might not give this game to a first grader for christmas. However, by making the game sound worse than it is, and by making inaccurate, inflammatory comments like "the children hear things like 'my fists have your blood on them'", you are hurting the integrity of the Dirty Dozen list. The whole point is so that parents can make informed decisions about what toys they should or should not be considering this christmas.
I encourage you to make revisions to the SSF2TR entry so that parents can see the whole picture. (ie including the silly move names, removing the "children hear" bit, and change killing to knockout.)
BTW: I agree that knocking out an opponent is still violent - there's just no need to trump it up to killing.
You've obviously never seen a table saw sling a 2x4 thru the guy standing next to you because someone else was using it improperly.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
They have a link to "Research". I read one of the papers and it is pretty weak - basically it rants about Columbine for a while, draws a statistical correlation between violent people and the desire to play violent video games, and ASSUMES from there that the games cause violent behavior.
Incoherent and Columbine based?
Hey, Taco, looks like Katz is moonlighting.
--saint
Um... or a parent could actually *look* at the box before they get to the checkout isle at toys-r-us. Hell, half of what the original article has is quoted straight from the product packaging. It's not like these things are sold in plain brown wrappers -- if you buy it, you've got a pretty damn good idea of what the toy does. A responsible parent wouldn't rely on a list like this, s/he would evaluate the toy and decide if the toy is appropriate for their child or not... and if they had any doubt as to what was in the box, they would ask one of the store employees if they could look inside before buying it.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
It's CmdrTaco's summary. The article only claims these are "Toys to Avoid", by whatever standards the site uses. Which begs the further question of whether CmndTaco presenting this as "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters" is misleading as well.
Can you support your claim that "This same organization is lobbying the US gov't to actually STOP production of these toys."?
You can't, because it's not true.
Read their website yourself. The strongest statement that they make about government action is that they want Congress to pressure the toy industry to stop **marketing** adult content toys and video games to children. That's not the same at all.
As for parents looking at toys for themselves, well, of course. The actual *list* is more of a publicity tool for their campaign to get parents to consider the effect of violent toys and games than it is a tool for parents to use in screening. If you *were* a parent who wanted to avoid violent toys and games, I'd guess that the actual number of items you'd need to avoid would be in the thousands, not a dozen!
From the lead paragraph ie xprcted a lsit of toys with small prts that coudl coem opf and choke a child, etc.
When did we get to the poitn that "child safety" included sticking to a prescribed politically correct politicla and social agenda?
According to their descriptions, NONE of these toys are "dangerous" in the sense of toy safety.
Skip such web-pap and read Consumer Reports if you are concerned about toys harming your child.
Oh and hears an idea, why don't YOU try teaching your children right from wrong rather then expecting toy, videogame and TV program makers to do I for you??
Idiot moderators modding down stuff they either don't like or that has been repeated by the rest of the horde. arg. Now my karma is below 50.
Back to the topic, I think the slashdot headline was misleading more than the website. The website made no attempt to hide its nature. I think such a thing would be fairly useless because of the whole "preaching to the choir" problem, e.g. the only people checking the site would be those that would already care about that sort of thing. Blargh
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
Good Christ.. they say that survival mode has you KILL 100 people as fast as you can. While this is partly true, it's also PARTLY WRONG. The Street Fighter titles, unlike Mortal Kombat, work on the premise that you're knocking your opponent out (hence the KO when you defeat an opponent-- what the hell did they think KO stood for?!). Sure, during gameplay it no longer says KO between the energy/life/power meters, but that's an issue with screen real-estate; the timer couldn't go in it's original location on such a small screen.
I remember a site that lambasted South Park's movie when it came out, I can't find the link now but it's just evil-- not the movie, the site, for trying to tell people that a movie which to most adults is harmless is just so "evil" and likely to corrupt little children and impressionable adults.. blech. I hate these kooks.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
One of the dirty dozen was a K'Nex version of a Mech Warrior mech. Like, official ones from the RPG. A bit more digging and you can find that K'Nex has other Mech Warrior mechs. This Mad Cat would go well next to my Lego R2-D2.
. If only there had been similiar rebuttals presented against MADD before they single handed criminalized alcohol consumption for every adult in America between the ages of 18 and 21.[2]
[2]Excluding military personnel, who can drink on base after enlistment
Sadly, no. On base Federal Law rules, and Federal Law states that the drinking age is 18.
No...people didn't read the links when *I* used to post here regularly, and that was 3 years ago.
The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
Umm©©© your right©©© but©©©
http://www©lionlamb©org/testimony©htm
You might want to read what they said to some members of the Senate©
"It is time to level the playing field© If you are serious about stopping the merchandising of violence to children, I implore you to appoint a blue-ribbon, non-industry-dominated commission to study the ways that violence is being marketed and cross-marketed to young children, and to find ways of *protecting children* from this cultural poison©" ¥my emphasis *
When the government "protects children" from something, it generally means laws and such© Several times during the testimony they compare toys to alcohol and tobacco© Does that seem a bit overboard to you?
Who decides which toys are "adult content"? Did you look at the recommened toys list?
http://www©lionlamb©org/Top_20_2001-2002©html
Not a single computer game© And the oldest age on the list is 9+ years ¥the Tricky Pix camera© What do you get a 12 year old? Tricky Pix? A hand puppet?
At least in the previous year's list they had Cranium for older kids©
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
Ok some people might feel that a right is being violated, but online? They are advocating against toys marketed to children. They aren't trying to say that the toy can't be made. They aren't trying to say that YOU can't buy the toy. They aren't even trying to say that an 8 year old can't have the toy.
All they are trying to say is that the marketing of some toys to YOUNG children is wrong. They are advocating for putting limits on how toys can be marketed. This does IMHO tred on the First Amendment some, but society has decided that other things should not be marketed to children, so there is a chance it could pass in congress.
Personally, I would just rather see strict truth in advertising laws draconian punishments, as the First Amendment does not protect fraud. But I digress.
These people are advocating something I find distaseful, namely the abridgment of Free Speech. On the other hand, I support fully their right to advocate for whatever they want to advocate for. To congress, on the web, to whoever else they want. If they want to organize boycotts, that is their right. If they want to lobby congress that is their right. If you disagree with them, lobby congress too. If you want them silenced, lobby congress for that.
Are they annoying? Yes. Should parent's be able to see and make decisions for themselves? Yes. So what? Get over it and get back to fragging.
I do wish the general userdom in slashdot would get off it's high horse, and actually check some things. The page referenced makes no mention to "dangerous" toys. It makes reference to toys parent's may want to "avoid". The "Dangerous" bit was simply inflamatory from the slashdot community.
Slashdot editors need to take a bit more care to provide a more accurate and balanced view of the various 'news' items posted here as well. Slashdot is becomming the major news site for a lot of people. Although I see nothing wrong with posting a reasonable and informed opinion about a particular piece of news (as in The Register), but slashdot seems to not only present opinion as fact, but fails to check even simple facts before posting what an untrained, and un-responsibile (not not irresponsible, but rather someone who can't be held accountable) person decides to write on the subject.
Come on, is surfing to the site noting the error and posting a little comment at the bottom all that hard?
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
I'm only a year younger than you, and was also mature/smart enough to realize that it was only a game. I've also had the first hand experience to realize that violence is NEVER fun in real life.
I agree on porno- it is just wrong, sex stuff even messes up adults on a daily basis- look at the divorce rate. As for horror films or games, I (as a parent) would make that decision on an individual basis for each child. Notice that I say "parent" in the decision. Not the government, not the schools, not anyone else! This whole thinkg gets into a huge amount of other topics that I don't want to elaborate on now.
My basic feeling is if you let your kid watch, say, Evil Dead 2, and he/she gets all fucked up, then you as a parent fucked up royally and did not do your job explaining reality vs. fantasy at all! If your kid thinks Doom is reality, it's your fault! There is absolutely NO reason why I kid playing a game or watching a movie (unless he has a severe psychotic problem) would be able to mix reality with fantasy if their parents are doing a good, fuck decent or average, job.
Desensitizing (sp?) kids occurs more on the news than anywhere else, as far as I'm concerned. "3 people killed in a drive by shooting, 2 dead in house fire, serial rapist claims another victim"?!?!?! THAT isn't desensitizing?!?! C'mon, this is real life smacking the kid in the face, and this is the absolute shit that leads the news every night! First- death, fires, explosions. Second- Celebrities, Hollywood, some government stuff. 3rd- Local puff piece. The rest- national sports, local sports, a "happy feeling" story, maybe a recall or health section, then weather.
How the hell is a kid supposed to process "4 dead in violent testicle knifing, video at 11", then get 60 seconds of talk, and then they move on? Impression- testicle knifing has a 60 second consequence! (Yes, I'm exageratting, but I hope you get the point).
Some other stuff- my parents let me watch every Bond film that came out when I was young. They knew me, they knew the material, they knew I could handle the violence, death, and occasional nudity. Whoopee.
I watch horror movies as long as I can remember, yet I don't ever remember hurting or killing anyone. I did kill all kinds of beasties and people in video games, saw it in movies, yet somehow I didn't become a serial killer! Imagine that!
I agree with you if you decide that the particular child can't handle it, but in general any kid with an ok life will be able to handle these abstract thoughts. But in general a child who is loved and supported can handle some crazy shit and get along just fine. I think that some people/groups/agencies have some kind of agenda (fuck if I know what it is) to try and convince the general public that a solid homelife, caring parents, and a fairly normal life won't help and that (place here) is the (current) evil of the world.
Just my thoughts on my observations of the world.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Aaack. I mis-typed, that should have read 'Federal Law states that the drinking age is *21*', not 18.
Hire out The Lord of the Flies sometime. It is also a book, but just reading it doesn't quite convey the horror of seeing kids do the things they do, and their level of enjoyment in it.
People are not naturally and instinctively "good". They injure, attack, rape, kill, bully, blackmail, lie, torture, steal and do many other horrible things.
Raising kids is not just buying the "right" toys, or avoiding the "bad" toys... or even getting your kids to behave well in public... it's trying to teach kids right from wrong, and the consequences of their actions. So that even away from people who can punish them, they will not decend into barbarism.