Slashback: Ford, Buccaneers, Hardware

The updates tonight (below) are on the industrially appealing sliMP3 player (get in line, buddy), the U.S. government's continuing War on Copyright Violation, the pricy but cool-sounding Audigy sound card from Creative Labs, what you'll find at mysql.org, and more. Enjoy!

It seemed like a good idea at the time, though. GeekLife.com writes: "After 20 months, Ford has ended (technically "deferred") their "Model E" free computer and discounted Internet access for their employees (announced here and discussed here). Employees who already have computers will be able to keep them, and their Internet service will not be affected."

I sure hope that Ford (like many large companies) at the very least gives Ford employees dibs on any computers that are being replaced within the company to make up for each new round of Windows.

Sounds like a slimple decision, if you like the look. rockwood writes: "We've all been waiting for this for quite some time, but it appears that now for only $269.00 Slim Devices, Inc. is now shipping their sliMP3. Though they state quantity is limited, due to a component shortage. Last minute Christmas gift for the tech on your list!"

For that price, it better read aloud in a very sexy voice. The other day we linked to a review of the new all-singing, all-dancing Audigy sound card on 3D Spotlight; in case that wasn't enough to help you choose whether to spend or save your money, LinkDJ writes: "This card is great for those with older sound card in their systems, but if you have a Sound Blaster 5.1, there is no real need to upgrade. The cool things about this card are that it has integrated SB1394 Firewire, thus eliminating the need for a separate Firewire add-in card. Read the full review."

WhoseSQL? gwynnebaer writes "A friend of mine just pointed out to me that the contentious www.mysql.org now points to the main MySQL AB site. If you remember, there was much gnashing of lawsuits over trademark issues this past summer. So, looks like at least one part of the battle is over, but for the life of me, I can't find any articles or newsworthy information to explain what happened. Anyone know the scoop?"

Free software might be a good way to lessen your legal liability. MooRogue writes: "Looks like the Feds are raiding Universities and corporate offices for more pirated software. They're questioning people and seizing computers to gather digital evidence in 'Operation Buccaneer.' Here's the article on the NY Times (free reg, blah blah)"

Comments

Fifth post

[Anonymous Coward]

Or tenth

Re:Fifth post

[Anonymous Coward]

But certainly not fuusato posato.

Re:Fifth post

[JonKatz on]

Can't you count? You must be a young boy. Can I fuck you in the ass?

2345123sadfasdf asdf adsf adsfdfdsa

[Anonymous Coward]

you suck...

i am cool..

winner!!!

Sixth post

[Anonymous Coward]

11th?

20 secs

[Anonymous Coward]

20 secs

Not a first post!

[Anonymous Coward]

or is it? no its not

first post

[Anonymous Coward]

first post

Take that chris!

ouch

[Anonymous Coward]

"only" $269?

Re:ouch

[billstr78]

Yeah, and it serves the same purpose as your computer running winamp and an audio cable coming out of your sound card. It may be slim, but it isn't all that usefull.

Re:ouch

[spyder913]

Unless of course your computer is far away from the stereo, or you want a remote that works at the stereo. This thing would be cool for me because I have ethernet near my stereo but not a computer... too bad it's so dang expensive.

Re:ouch

[shyster]

Shouldn't it be possible to run an audio wire to your stereo? Maybe you could borrow some Cat5 and use a pair off that. Or hell, for $269 I'll sell you a computer more than capable of pumping out MP3's that you can put right next to your stereo. And you can even hook it up to your LAN.

Re:ouch

[Hormonal]

I wasn't able to find terribly great photos of the product (mainly a front view of the LCD), but it's a nice, small component that would look pretty good sitting next to the rest of my A/V rig (nothing special, just the usual TV/DVD/VCR/Receiver/CD player.)

I'm not big on shelling out exorbitant amounts of cash for components, and I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination (hence my looking at MP3 players), but $269 isn't bad for a component, and a niche (Not a typo. I meant "niche".) one at that.

For $269, I can give my receiver access to all of my MP3s, I get a nifty remote to let my fiance play with, and I don't have to put an actual computer in my living room. I know I can do all of this by throwing a modest processor and some RAM into a 1U rackmount case, but I'm willing to pay the extra cash (which is probably not much, since rackmount cases are expensive) to not have to screw around with setting stuff up. I'm not afraid of tweaking; I like a little digital wrassling from time to time, but soemtimes I just want to sit down, and listen to some music.

Obviously, for someone in a dorm room, or a small apartment, running a long cable from a computer to the stereo is a fine solution, and what I'd do rpovided I was in that situation. This just works better for me.

Re:ouch

[gpinzone]

Aw Christ. Here we go again. Every time one of these devices gets mentioned the whole fucking debate over "running audio cables" rears it ugly head. For the last time...run a digital coax cable to your amplifier/receiver. NO LOSS!

wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

6+ posts and none moderated yet? Where are the modtrolls?????

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you! One more moderation point wasted.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Yee-haw! I'm a troll now!

Score:
Me - 2
Modbots - 0

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep 'em coming! Waste those points!

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Four in a row! I wonder how many moderation points can be wasted in a single thread

fp

[Anonymous Coward]

fp!

I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[Robber Baron]

...all the pimps, drug dealers, and other riff-raff, who must surely all be behind bars now and consequently our law-enforcement agencies have nothing to do but hassle college kids!

These are the pirates that they need to be going after, not college kids swapping mp3z or warez...

Re:I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[Anonymous Coward]

...all the pimps, drug dealers, and other riff-raff, who must surely all be behind bars now and consequently our law-enforcement agencies have nothing to do but hassle college kids!

Here in Ontario the police are patting themselves on the backs after busting some marijuana growing houses (undoubtedly after hundreds of man years of investigations): What a fuggin' waste of time and resources. Seriously though, I question the priorities of the police when Canada's property crimes are among the worst of the G7 (car thefts and breakins are absolutely rampant).

Police pursue whatever gets them the big front page story, not what matters most to the public. I phoned the police a couple of days ago about a kid trying to break into houses in my neighbourhood to have them basically act like I'm wasting their time, while at the same time dozens of police are busy monitoring electric meters and following people around to make a completely imperceptible impact into the soft drug trade. What a joke.

Re:I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange, I know many many drug dealers, and none of them are in jail at the moment, most never have been. You just don't seem to under stand that these college kids pose much more of a problem, they are software pirates. This means they do something with computers and they must be stopped!

Re:I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[gmplague]

don't forget terrorists!

Re:I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[The Pimp]

Hey, some of us are still in bidnazz!

Re:I'm so glad the streets are safe from...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... And being a broke college kid

If I have a six pack of beer and a friend comes over and drinks it all you would probably get angry. But if that beer were 'stolen' as in software piracy... well we would both be sitting on the couch with enough beer for both of us.

I like the SAC's name

[Amazing Quantum Man]

His name is "Doody".

Re:I like the SAC's name

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this offtopic? The guy was talking about the Special Agent in Charge for Operation Buccaneer.

Audigy

[moronic1]

all I want to know is when linux drivers would be available for the audigy.. ;)

Re:Audigy

[moronic1]

ahh nevermind.. looked at the older article and

----
The review doesn't mention how the Audigy works under any open source operating systems, though.

If you're interested in helping Creative develop open source drivers for the Audigy, go to their Open Source Page [creative.com]. Get the emu10k1 source [creative.com] and thumb through the mailing list archive [creative.com] to find out how to get the Audigy branch of the tree
------

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=25000&cid=27 14 515

Re:Audigy

[bbqdeath]

When the next version of Windows comes out, I suspect a lot of people will be saying "all I want to know is when the Windows-?? drivers will be available for the audigy."

I've had enough pain and suffering from creative labs' prior driver support issues that I'm going to have to think long and hard about whether the price for this card is worth it, because I can't realistically expect the card to work past whatever version of Windows it supports now.

Eugene

Re:Audigy

[moronic1]

I hear you pain.. I might be lucky.. but I havnt had any troubles, Ive run the card in windows me and 2000, and two different versions of linux with no problems.. now.. my dxr2 card.. thats a different story(linux), which I have found is related to my video card..

Re:Audigy

[Lumpy]

no dont.

buy a turtle beach santa cruz.
1/2 the price and 3 times the quality.

check the specs, it blows away anything creative can make and borders on professional quality.

Re:Audigy

[Anonymous Coward]

wow man, your nick is really appropriate for such an idiot as you.

Re:Audigy

[pompomtom]

What Processer have you got? I get playable latency (10-15ms) in Reason with SBlive. If you're going to get a decent soundcard, it wouldn't be the audigy.

Look at the hoontech range!

Re:Audigy

[Andre060]

Just so you know, you can get APS ASIO drivers for the plain ol' SB Live and get 4MS latency.

Andre060

Re:Audigy

[afidel]

Just so you know, you can get APS ASIO drivers for the plain ol' SB Live and get 4MS latency.

not for win2k, and 4ms is pushing it on the audigy, with the live I have heard lots of reports of clicking with anything below 12ms.

in reference to the warez raid

[Anonymous Coward]

an Australian LUG applauded the raid saying that stamping out pirated software will make open source alternatives more attractive

Re:in reference to the warez raid

[Anonymous Coward]

LUG? Lesbian Until Graduation? Perhaps folks should check around before they pick a name..

Re:in reference to the warez raid

[kesuki]

Linux users who celebrate the loss of freedom deserve the fate that will befall them should Microsoft manage to make linux as illegal as warez. The loss of freedom is not in reference to these warez busts, but rather the laws that were passed which enabled them. They were busted on December 11 for a reason. The FBI wants people to think of warez groups as they think of the taliban. The fact that these busts will enforce the rule of law that breaking encryption == a terrorist act. You may as well stop watching DVDs under linux, unless you use closed source apps like PowerDVD. The power the FBI now has allows them to go after the people who Make open source DVD players. And when the MPAA pushes them to do so, who will be there to defend you? If they can convince the average person that a warez group = terrorists, then they can damn well convince them that a linux user is a criminal.

Need I remind you that making an open source DVD player Is a violation of the DMCA? Which means they could now prosecute you as a terrorist, which means they Can Extradite you from your native country and put you on trial Here in the US. Assuming your country allows you to put on trial here.

Of course the DMCA can also be interperted to mean that it is illegal to provide copies of the US constitution. How convenient, since it's clearly in violation of the US constitution.

more sql trademark dispute info

[Anonymous Coward]

there's more info on how this got resolved in this article.

Is it really worth it??

[WaIter Bell]

Let me preface this by saying that I am an avid Linux user. I use Latex for word processing, Koffice to read office docs, and Netscape 4.77 to browse the web. I do not depend on non-free software for anything.

Now, my question: what were these "DrinkOrDie" people thinking? They are going to spend months, maybe years in jail just because they couldn't live without their precious warez. I find it hard to imagine what you can't do with free, legal open source software - so why did these kids forsake their entire future over some crappy commercial software products? It blows the mind, really. The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing.

One possibility is that they did this to "be cool" and to show that they could get away with it - just for the thrill of doing something illegal. Well, it didn't get them laid, and they're not getting away with it. So they can take comfort in the fact that they will be rotting away in their prison cells as vaginal virgins. I hope they are proud of themselves.

Why anyone would subject themselves to this sort of punishment for a little free closed-source software is beyond the realm of comprehension.

~waIly

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Exmet Paff Daxx]

The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing.

At first glance, you're right. But think about it for a minute. Rob Malda is quite possibly the most Open Source concious person I know of, and he is (by his own admission in several posted stories) almost addicted to the closed source computer game FFX. He discussed his obsession earlier in this story. If Rob can't get by with Tux racer, how can we expect people with only average willpower to resist the lure of proprietary software?

Face it, no matter how much we like Open Source software, there's always going to be something Closed Source that you like, even if you're Rob Malda. And what better what to stick it to the man and teach them to go Open Source than to just copy the software?

I think the mistake these DrinkOrDie guys made was that they copied too much. I only copy one or two games a month and nobody has ever busted me.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[llamalicious]

well, you can be assured they'll get laid now, since we know how badly convicted felons in prison treat warez kiddies.

:)

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Webmonger]

Dude, Netscape 4.77 is non-free.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[mz001b]

The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing.

Doesn't provide a Fortran 90 compiler. Projects exist but they are a long way off yet. Most Linux distributions come with the major apps you need, but there are plenty of other, more specialized ones, that are needed.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a full supporter of open source software. I think that it is a great idea, and from the software I`ve seen, often times as dependable (or more so) and powerful as their proprietary equivalents. However, this is not true for all software genres. I use a good deal of graphics software (Photoshop, Illustrator, and Quark Xpress), and computer modeling programs. As a student, I need to learn these programs to be a useful employee in the future. As a student, I do not have $1000+ to spend on software. As I see it, from the student perspective, the software companies should consider making free student versions, or student grants for those needing software be increased to cover the legal purchasing of these software packages.

In a side note, I`ve tried Linux twice, but never stuck. GIMP is no photoshop.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[daft_one]

Well, actually, it might get them laid. Especially if they drop the soap.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Phexro]

"The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing."

uh, the latest Debian cd doesn't even provide linux 2.4.x or xfree86 4.0.

and show me one audio processing tool that's comparable to soundforge, or SAW or protools, or any other professional audio editing studio. i'm a debian developer and i don't know of one.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't do it with fortran 77,it isn't worth doing.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[reverius]

Way off -yet-? Do you mean to tell me that Debian will eventually, in the future, have a Fortran 90 compiler, or that it should?

I don't see why anyone would consider using Fortran. But even if you have your reasons (which I'm sure you do)...

I don't see why a Fortran 90 compiler is a "major app". I think that's the sort of thing that an OS does not need to come bundled with.

The reason? Simple. 99.7% of Debian users will never touch a Fortran compiler.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[dagnabit]

I use ... Netscape 4.77 to browse the web. I do not depend on non-free software for anything.

Going for the "as in beer" definition for that one, I see... :)

Re:Is it really worth it??

[ansible]

Since you mentioned LaTeX...

I thought I'd just put in a plug for LyX which takes all the creamy goodness of LaTeX and spreads it onto all the nooks and crannies of a GUI.

My apologies to the writers of "The Tick".

Re:Is it really worth it??

[GregGardner]

Yeah I'm sure the DrinkOrDie 1337 WaReZ kiddies were pirating a bunch of Fortran compilers. Definitely.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth you can get a student edition for about half as much. But $300 is more than I'd ever pay.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

none of them get in jail, they all end up with computer prohibition and some public service hours and loss of all current hardware...

Re:Is it really worth it??

[joshyboy]

That's exactly the reason I can't get him on Linux as well. He's an audio engineer guy, uses TripleDat (Creamware) which is, in his opinion, the greatest audio editting tool out there, and he used to be a SAW rep. RCMP goes to him for audio editting and crap, but I digress. We also both use Macromedia products on a /daily/ basis. Sure Gimp can do the drawing, and the ble to the bla, but Macromedia makes it easy and clean. :) Until real developing tools (not including code-apps) are made open source, Linux will still remain "that other OS".

Re:Is it really worth it??

[joshyboy]

Replace 'can't get him' with 'can't get my Dad'. I've been awake for 21 hours, and I actually tried to edit my text last time...guess it didn't work.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

Latex sucks for 99% of what people do. Yes, it's great for long documents that have a very strict structure.

But how many people are writing textbooks? For most people, the structure of the document is something they worry about after the document is written, for the most part. Latex forces people to think backwards- first you have to decide how you want it to LOOK, then you fill in the content.

I'd rather just move words around to suit me than have to fit my words to a structure I've already designed. I realize Latex isn't as restrictive as I'm making it out to be, but it's sure a lot less intuitive than anything else. And really, if it was SO FUCKING GREAT, why aren't more professional publications (I'm talking magazines) using it? Nearly everyone uses Quark Xpress, or similar. Because it's easier and more powerful.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

How where you able to get Rob Malda's dick out of your hands long enough to post this message? My slipping it into your mouth, no doubt. Gheeez.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah like its 2001 almost 2002 and you're still stuck on Fortran1990. Sheeee-it! I bet you're still using Windows87.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah for lamer graphics nurds and web "producer" cock-suckers who pretend to be part of the technology sector but really should be classed with hairdressers, choriographers, and other assorted limp-wristed types.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn straight, Fortran 77 was the last real Fortran.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

I use...Netscape 4.77 to browse the web. I do not depend on non-free software for anything.

Netscape 4.x is non-free software. Consider using Mozilla, links, Konqueror (to name just a few) if you want to live completely in the free software world.

Now to your point about what DrinkOrDie was thinking: I don't know. I'm not saying I can defend their actions (I use only free software as much as possiblemy PC's BIOSes are not yet free software, for instance) but I don't know why they did what they did. I don't think what they did is stealing and I'm not convinced the genuine loss in income for the copyright holders of the duplicated software is in the billions because I'm not convinced all the people who have unauthorized copies would have paid for them anyhow. However, I'm still not privvy to why DrinkOrDie did what they did.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[meadowsp]

"Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL"
[ A letter to the editor of Datamation, from many years back. I've long ago lost my dog-eared photocopy, but I believe this was written (and is copyright) by Ed Post, Graphic Software Systems.]

Back in the good old days -- the "Golden Era" of computers, it was easy to separate the men from the boys (sometimes called "Real Men" and "Quiche Eaters" in the literature). During this period, the Real Men were the ones that understood computer programming, and the Quiche Eaters were the ones that didn't. A real computer programmer said things like "DO 10 I=1,10" and "ABEND" (they actually talked in capital letters, you understand), and the rest of the world said things like "computers are too complicated for me" and "I can't relate to computers -- they're so impersonal". (A previous work [1] points out that Real Men don't "relate" to anything, and aren't afraid of being impersonal.)

But, as usual, times change. We are faced today with a world in which little old ladies can get computers in their microwave ovens, 12-year-old kids can blow Real Men out of the water playing Asteroids and Pac-Man, and anyone can buy and even understand their very own Personal Computer. The Real Programmer is in danger of becoming extinct, of being replaced by high-school students with TRASH-80's.

There is a clear need to point out the differences between the typical high-school junior Pac-Man player and a Real Programmer. If this difference is made clear, it will give these kids something to aspire to -- a role model, a Father Figure. It will also help explain to the employers of Real Programmers why it would be a mistake to replace the Real Programmers on their staff with 12-year-old Pac-Man players (at a considerable salary savings).

Languages
The easiest way to tell a Real Programmer from the crowd is by the programming language he (or she) uses. Real Programmers use FORTRAN. Quiche Eaters use PASCAL. Nicklaus Wirth, the designer of PASCAL, gave a talk once at which he was asked "How do you pronounce your name?". He replied, "You can either call me by name, pronouncing it 'Veert', or call me by value, 'Worth'." One can tell immediately from this comment that Nicklaus Wirth is a Quiche Eater. The only parameter passing mechanism endorsed by Real Programmers is call-by-value-return, as implemented in the IBM\370 FORTRAN-G and H compilers. Real programmers don't need all these abstract concepts to get their jobs done -- they are perfectly happy with a keypunch, a FORTRAN IV compiler, and a beer.

Real Programmers do List Processing in FORTRAN.
Real Programmers do String Manipulation in FORTRAN.
Real Programmers do Accounting (if they do it at all) in FORTRAN.
Real Programmers do Artificial Intelligence programs in FORTRAN.
If you can't do it in FORTRAN, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing.

Structured Programming
The academics in computer science have gotten into the "structured programming" rut over the past several years. They claim that programs are more easily understood if the programmer uses some special language constructs and techniques. They don't all agree on exactly which constructs, of course, and the examples they use to show their particular point of view invariably fit on a single page of some obscure journal or another -- clearly not enough of an example to convince anyone. When I got out of school, I thought I was the best programmer in the world. I could write an unbeatable tic-tac-toe program, use five different computer languages, and create 1000-line programs that WORKED. (Really!) Then I got out into the Real World. My first task in the Real World was to read and understand a 200,000-line FORTRAN program, then speed it up by a factor of two. Any Real Programmer will tell you that all the Structured Coding in the world won't help you solve a problem like that -- it takes actual talent. Some quick observations on Real Programmers and Structured Programming:

Real Programmers aren't afraid to use GOTO's.
Real Programmers can write five-page-long DO loops without getting confused.
Real Programmers like Arithmetic IF statements -- they make the code more interesting.
Real Programmers write self-modifying code, especially if they can save 20 nanoseconds in the middle of a tight loop.
Real Programmers don't need comments -- the code is obvious.
Since FORTRAN doesn't have a structured IF, REPEAT ... UNTIL, or CASE statement, Real Programmers don't have to worry about not using them. Besides, they can be simulated when necessary using assigned GOTO's.
Data Structures have also gotten a lot of press lately. Abstract Data Types, Structures, Pointers, Lists, and Strings have become popular in certain circles. Wirth (the above-mentioned Quiche Eater) actually wrote an entire book [2] contending that you could write a program based on data structures, instead of the other way around. As all Real Programmers know, the only useful data structure is the Array. Strings, lists, structures, sets -- these are all special cases of arrays and can be treated that way just as easily without messing up your programing language with all sorts of complications. The worst thing about fancy data types is that you have to declare them, and Real Programming Languages, as we all know, have implicit typing based on the first letter of the (six character) variable name.

Operating Systems
What kind of operating system is used by a Real Programmer? CP/M? God forbid -- CP/M, after all, is basically a toy operating system. Even little old ladies and grade school students can understand and use CP/M.

Unix is a lot more complicated of course -- the typical Unix hacker never can remember what the PRINT command is called this week -- but when it gets right down to it, Unix is a glorified video game. People don't do Serious Work on Unix systems: they send jokes around the world on UUCP-net and write adventure games and research papers.

No, your Real Programmer uses OS\370. A good programmer can find and understand the description of the IJK305I error he just got in his JCL manual. A great programmer can write JCL without referring to the manual at all. A truly outstanding programmer can find bugs buried in a 6 megabyte core dump without using a hex calculator. (I have actually seen this done.)

OS is a truly remarkable operating system. It's possible to destroy days of work with a single misplaced space, so alertness in the programming staff is encouraged. The best way to approach the system is through a keypunch. Some people claim there is a Time Sharing system that runs on OS\370, but after careful study I have come to the conclusion that they were mistaken.

Programming Tools
What kind of tools does a Real Programmer use? In theory, a Real Programmer could run his programs by keying them into the front panel of the computer. Back in the days when computers had front panels, this was actually done occasionally. Your typical Real Programmer knew the entire bootstrap loader by memory in hex, and toggled it in whenever it got destroyed by his program. (Back then, memory was memory -- it didn't go away when the power went off. Today, memory either forgets things when you don't want it to, or remembers things long after they're better forgotten.) Legend has it that Seymore Cray, inventor of the Cray I supercomputer and most of Control Data's computers, actually toggled the first operating system for the CDC7600 in on the front panel from memory when it was first powered on. Seymore, needless to say, is a Real Programmer.

One of my favorite Real Programmers was a systems programmer for Texas Instruments. One day he got a long distance call from a user whose system had crashed in the middle of saving some important work. Jim was able to repair the damage over the phone, getting the user to toggle in disk I/O instructions at the front panel, repairing system tables in hex, reading register contents back over the phone. The moral of this story: while a Real Programmer usually includes a keypunch and lineprinter in his toolkit, he can get along with just a front panel and a telephone in emergencies.

In some companies, text editing no longer consists of ten engineers standing in line to use an 029 keypunch. In fact, the building I work in doesn't contain a single keypunch. The Real Programmer in this situation has to do his work with a "text editor" program. Most systems supply several text editors to select from, and the Real Programmer must be careful to pick one that reflects his personal style. Many people believe that the best text editors in the world were written at Xerox Palo Alto Research Center for use on their Alto and Dorado computers [3]. Unfortunately, no Real Programmer would ever use a computer whose operating system is called SmallTalk, and would certainly not talk to the computer with a mouse.

Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise.

It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine.

For this reason, Real Programmers are reluctant to actually edit a program that is close to working. They find it much easier to just patch the binary object code directly, using a wonderful program called SUPERZAP (or its equivalent on non-IBM machines). This works so well that many working programs on IBM systems bear no relation to the original FORTRAN code. In many cases, the original source code is no longer available. When it comes time to fix a program like this, no manager would even think of sending anything less than a Real Programmer to do the job -- no Quiche Eating structured programmer would even know where to start. This is called "job security".

Some programming tools NOT used by Real Programmers:

FORTRAN preprocessors like MORTRAN and RATFOR. The Cuisinarts of programming -- great for making Quiche. See comments above on structured programming.
Source language debuggers. Real Programmers can read core dumps.
Compilers with array bounds checking. They stifle creativity, destroy most of the interesting uses for EQUIVALENCE, and make it impossible to modify the operating system code with negative subscripts. Worst of all, bounds checking is inefficient.
Source code maintenance systems. A Real Programmer keeps his code locked up in a card file, because it implies that its owner cannot leave his important programs unguarded [5].
The Real Programmer at Work
Where does the typical Real Programmer work? What kind of programs are worthy of the efforts of so talented an individual? You can be sure that no Real Programmer would be caught dead writing accounts-receivable programs in COBOL, or sorting mailing lists for People magazine. A Real Programmer wants tasks of earth-shaking importance (literally!).

Real Programmers work for Los Alamos National Laboratory, writing atomic bomb simulations to run on Cray I supercomputers.
Real Programmers work for the National Security Agency, decoding Russian transmissions.
It was largely due to the efforts of thousands of Real Programmers working for NASA that our boys got to the moon and back before the Russkies.
Real Programmers are at work for Boeing designing the operating systems for cruise missiles.
Some of the most awesome Real Programmers of all work at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Many of them know the entire operating system of the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft by heart. With a combination of large ground-based FORTRAN programs and small spacecraft-based assembly language programs, they are able to do incredible feats of navigation and improvisation -- hitting ten-kilometer wide windows at Saturn after six years in space, repairing or bypassing damaged sensor platforms, radios, and batteries. Allegedly, one Real Programmer managed to tuck a pattern-matching program into a few hundred bytes of unused memory in a Voyager spacecraft that searched for, located, and photographed a new moon of Jupiter.

The current plan for the Galileo spacecraft is to use a gravity assist trajectory past Mars on the way to Jupiter. This trajectory passes within 80 +/-3 kilometers of the surface of Mars. Nobody is going to trust a PASCAL program (or a PASCAL programmer) for navigation to these tolerances.

As you can tell, many of the world's Real Programmers work for the U.S. Government -- mainly the Defense Department. This is as it should be. Recently, however, a black cloud has formed on the Real Programmer horizon. It seems that some highly placed Quiche Eaters at the Defense Department decided that all Defense programs should be written in some grand unified language called "ADA" ((C), DoD). For a while, it seemed that ADA was destined to become a language that went against all the precepts of Real Programming -- a language with structure, a language with data types, strong typing, and semicolons. In short, a language designed to cripple the creativity of the typical Real Programmer. Fortunately, the language adopted by DoD has enough interesting features to make it approachable -- it's incredibly complex, includes methods for messing with the operating system and rearranging memory, and Edsgar Dijkstra doesn't like it [6]. (Dijkstra, as I'm sure you know, was the author of "GoTos Considered Harmful" -- a landmark work in programming methodology, applauded by PASCAL programmers and Quiche Eaters alike.) Besides, the determined Real Programmer can write FORTRAN programs in any language.

The Real Programmer might compromise his principles and work on something slightly more trivial than the destruction of life as we know it, providing there's enough money in it. There are several Real Programmers building video games at Atari, for example. (But not playing them -- a Real Programmer knows how to beat the machine every time: no challenge in that.) Everyone working at LucasFilm is a Real Programmer. (It would be crazy to turn down the money of fifty million Star Trek fans.) The proportion of Real Programmers in Computer Graphics is somewhat lower than the norm, mostly because nobody has found a use for computer graphics yet. On the other hand, all computer graphics is done in FORTRAN, so there are a fair number of people doing graphics in order to avoid having to write COBOL programs.

The Real Programmer at Play
Generally, the Real Programmer plays the same way he works -- with computers. He is constantly amazed that his employer actually pays him to do what he would be doing for fun anyway (although he is careful not to express this opinion out loud). Occasionally, the Real Programmer does step out of the office for a breath of fresh air and a beer or two. Some tips on recognizing Real Programmers away from the computer room:

At a party, the Real Programmers are the ones in the corner talking about operating system security and how to get around it.
At a football game, the Real Programmer is the one comparing the plays against his simulations printed on 11 by 14 fanfold paper.
At the beach, the Real Programmer is the one drawing flowcharts in the sand.
At a funeral, the Real Programmer is the one saying "Poor George. And he almost had the sort routine working before the coronary."
In a grocery store, the Real Programmer is the one who insists on running the cans past the laser checkout scanner himself, because he never could trust keypunch operators to get it right the first time.
The Real Programmer's Natural Habitat
What sort of environment does the Real Programmer function best in? This is an important question for the managers of Real Programmers. Considering the amount of money it costs to keep one on the staff, it's best to put him (or her) in an environment where he can get his work done.

The typical Real Programmer lives in front of a computer terminal. Surrounding this terminal are:

Listings of all programs the Real Programmer has ever worked on, piled in roughly chronological order on every flat surface in the office.
Some half-dozen or so partly filled cups of cold coffee. Occasionally, there will be cigarette butts floating in the coffee. In some cases, the cups will contain Orange Crush.
Unless he is very good, there will be copies of the OS JCL manual and the Principles of Operation open to some particularly interesting pages.
Taped to the wall is a line-printer Snoopy calendar for the year 1969.
Strewn about the floor are several wrappers for peanut butter filled cheese bars -- the type that are made pre-stale at the bakery so they can't get any worse while waiting in the vending machine.
Hiding in the top left-hand drawer of the desk is a stash of double-stuff Oreos for special occasions.
Underneath the Oreos is a flowcharting template, left there by the previous occupant of the office. (Real Programmers write programs, not documentation. Leave that to the maintenance people.)
The Real Programmer is capable of working 30, 40, even 50 hours at a stretch, under intense pressure. In fact, he prefers it that way. Bad response time doesn't bother the Real Programmer -- it gives him a chance to catch a little sleep between compiles. If there is not enough schedule pressure on the Real Programmer, he tends to make things more challenging by working on some small but interesting part of the problem for the first nine weeks, then finishing the rest in the last week, in two or three 50-hour marathons. This not only impresses the hell out of his manager, who was despairing of ever getting the project done on time, but creates a convenient excuse for not doing the documentation. In general:

No Real Programmer works 9 to 5 (unless it's the ones at night).
Real Programmers don't wear neckties.
Real Programmers don't wear high-heeled shoes.
Real Programmers arrive at work in time for lunch [9].
A Real Programmer might or might not know his wife's name. He does, however, know the entire ASCII (or EBCDIC) code table.
Real Programmers don't know how to cook. Grocery stores aren't open at three in the morning. Real Programmers survive on Twinkies and coffee.
The Future
What of the future? It is a matter of some concern to Real Programmers that the latest generation of computer programmers are not being brought up with the same outlook on life as their elders. Many of them have never seen a computer with a front panel. Hardly anyone graduating from school these days can do hex arithmetic without a calculator. College graduates these days are soft -- protected from the realities of programming by source level debuggers, text editors that count parentheses, and "user friendly" operating systems. Worst of all, some of these alleged "computer scientists" manage to get degrees without ever learning FORTRAN! Are we destined to become an industry of Unix hackers and PASCAL programmers?

From my experience, I can only report that the future is bright for Real Programmers everywhere. Neither OS\370 nor FORTRAN show any signs of dying out, despite all the efforts of PASCAL programmers the world over. Even more subtle tricks, like adding structured coding constructs to FORTRAN have failed. Oh sure, some computer vendors have come out with FORTRAN 77 compilers, but every one of them has a way of converting itself back into a FORTRAN 66 compiler at the drop of an option card -- to compile DO loops like God meant them to be.

Even Unix might not be as bad on Real Programmers as it once was. The latest release of Unix has the potential of an operating system worthy of any Real Programmer -- two different and subtly incompatible user interfaces, an arcane and complicated teletype driver, virtual memory. If you ignore the fact that it's "structured", even 'C' programming can be appreciated by the Real Programmer: after all, there's no type checking, variable names are seven (ten? eight?) characters long, and the added bonus of the Pointer data type is thrown in -- like having the best parts of FORTRAN and assembly language in one place. (Not to mention some of the more creative uses for #define.)

No, the future isn't all that bad. Why, in the past few years, the popular press has even commented on the bright new crop of computer nerds and hackers ([7] and [8]) leaving places like Stanford and M.I.T. for the Real World. From all evidence, the spirit of Real Programming lives on in these young men and women. As long as there are ill-defined goals, bizarre bugs, and unrealistic schedules, there will be Real Programmers willing to jump in and Solve The Problem, saving the documentation for later. Long live FORTRAN!

Acknowledgement
I would like to thank Jan E., Dave S., Rich G., Rich E., for their help in characterizing the Real Programmer, Heather B. for the illustration, Kathy E. for putting up with it, and atd!avsdS:mark for the initial inspiration.

References
[1] Feirstein, B., "Real Men don't Eat Quiche", New York, Pocket Books, 1982.

[2] Wirth, N., "Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs", Prentice Hall, 1976.

[3] Ilson, R., "Recent Research in Text Processing", IEEE Trans. Prof. Commun., Vol. PC-23, No. 4, Dec. 4, 1980.

[4] Finseth, C., "Theory and Practice of Text Editors -- or -- a Cookbook for an EMACS", B.S. Thesis, MIT/LCS/TM-165, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, May 1980.

[5] Weinberg, G., "The Psychology of Computer Programming", New York, Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1971, p. 110.

[6] Dijkstra, E., "On the GREEN language submitted to the DoD", Sigplan notices, Vol. 3 No. 10, Oct 1978.

[7] Rose, Frank, "Joy of Hacking", Science 82, Vol. 3 No. 9, Nov 82, pp. 58-66.

[8] "The Hacker Papers", Psychology Today, August 1980.

[9] sdcarl!lin, "Real Programmers", UUCP-net, Thu Oct 21 16:55:16 1982

Re:Is it really worth it??

[AndyChrist]

SGI would be hurting even more if it did have one. High-end scientific and engineering applications sometimes require fortran.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[daniel_isaacs]

The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing.

They include Snood? Damn. I need to switch distros!

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

What a load of bullshit.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you seriously know how addicting it is? I was a member of a SVCD group. At first I started off downloading only what I enjoyed. Then I started ripping my own movies so I could trade more and more. Next thing I knew I was downloading 11 releases a day and burning them, never to see them again. I have movies burned to CD-R that I have never heard of before.

It is a serious addiction. My wife yelling at me "why do you spend so much damn time on that machine??". I would miss time to go to Chuck-E-Cheese with my children so that I could download and burn even more releases. It is not neccessarily the whole "I am a badass I'm doing something illegal look at me" factor. It is the idea you get in your head... It is here for me to download so why not? And if you want to keep downloading you better release some yourself because being a courier is harder and harder every day.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Mytzle]

So many points to make...

I find it hard to imagine what you can't do with free, legal open source software

Umm lemme see, games, games, games. I know Linux is pretty bad ass for most computing tasks, but to MOST of the people on earth, their computer is as much entertainment center as it is tool for useful work.

The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing

Perhaps it does, but that is your viewpoint. I pretty much keep the switch box flipped to my red hat boxm, but when it is time to play a game, or show a friend something groovy, gues which box I flip to?

just for the thrill of doing something illegal

Yes, there are people like that. I personally can't fathom it, my psychoses are based in other things, but people bu8ngee jump for a thrill, and sometimes the elastic breaks. Same thing, Some people pirate for thrills, and the thrill of the crack. And sometimes they get caught.

Well, it didn't get them laid
Hrmm, maybe not in the classical sense, but I can ASSure you, someone is gunna be taking some geek butt.

Why anyone would subject themselves to this sort of punishment for a little free closed-source software is beyond the realm of comprehension.

See Above!

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you are one arrogant a$$.

"Let me preface this by saying that I am an avid Linux user."

Nice, so am I. I also use Windows.

"I find it hard to imagine what you can't do with free, legal open source software - so why did these kids forsake their entire future over some crappy commercial software products?"

So what about us that don't want to use linux.

Linux sucks for most users. I don't want to be required to use a consol. Linux is clunky. Don't get me wrong, windows can be damn painful, and shows aweful design, but I would rather use that interface than that of most linux programs.

I don't want programs that don't know how to alphabatize, and who start you in a file listing at the bottom, and all the other quirks often found. Don't tell me "such and such program does it right, so use that instead". Windows does more things right in UI, and I don't have to study which programs do and don't. Purchased software is more friendly (otherwise it couldn't sell... *nixs don't have to sell, so most programs overlook this stuff).

As for the pirating stuff, here is an example:

Say I am a college student, and I want to try 3D modeling or drafting. Everyone says that 3D Studio, and Auto CAD are the best programs to use. These are the programs I am likely to use in a carreer. Then I see the price tag. Clearly meant to be used in bussiness. How am I going to learn this stuff without have to take classes to learn? Sure, there are free packages to use though. Oh, wait, they lack features... they aren't documented... there are not books on how to use them.... there are not tutorials all over the net. I am not going to profit off of the program (clearly something the program was meant for, and hince the high price). So it doesn't seem a big deal if I pirate it. I would never have bought it anyways. And if I end up doing this for a living, I will want to use this package, likely buy it, and not be hooked on a competeing product.

I am a kid, I have no money, what is the big deal?

These guys need to go after the companies running on pirated software. They have the money for the fines. They are the ones that would pay for it, but don't because they found it for free.

Just because you don't mind the limitations in your software, doesn't mean everyone should switch over to it!

vk

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

What a load of bullshit.

Obviously, you are a Quiche Eaters.

Re:Is it really worth it??

[domsol]

I find it hard to imagine what you can't do with free, legal open source software .... The latest Debian CD provides all the software anyone could ever conceive of needing.

Um, no, Debian's CD has many, many holes in it, along with every other Linux distro. Which I see no fault with, personally. But Linux as a dev environment in *my* field isn't terribly useful...

I produce multimedia programs for my so-called living. Much as I like Linux, the programs I *need* run ~$1K USD/per, are and will likely forever be closed-source, and don't yet have Linux versions (except maybe DeBab).

Which software and upgrades I have to pay for myself.

So, before blowing a grand or more on a program, I do my damnedest to check it out. I've only had to resort to a warez thang once (Thank you ADOBE -- though once I checked it was clear that what I bought instead from Terran works about a gazillion times better); most companies a la Macromedia have 30-day killware that you can download and do the feature check before putting money into it.

The programs I need for compositing or editing material don't currently exist on Linux; many are in their first or second actual version on Windows (rather than version 7 on the Mac ;-) ).

I'd be happy to use open-source sw if any existed that compared favorably to my current dev suite (Authorware/Director/Flash/SuperCard; SoundForge; Debabelizer; Cleaner5; TextEdit/BBEdit). But at this time the demand simply ain't there.

Now back to my ditch...

--domsol

Re:Is it really worth it??

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] why aren't more professional publications (I'm talking magazines) using it? Nearly everyone uses Quark Xpress, or similar. Because it's easier and more powerful.

Magazines can get away with shoddy typesetting, and they're packed with "creatives" whose alleged contributions consist of endlessly macdinking the layout in ways that LaTeX doesn't readily support (mostly because they have no effect the meaning of the content). You know, the kind of people who waste their time on Flash and rollovers because they don't have much to say. Who inflict design atrocities like WiReD.

Anyone who starts writing a document by thinking "how should this look" ought to stick with crayon.

opensource and all that legal stuff

[snake_dad]

Actually this is for me a big reason to use free software. Especially so because I earn my money in closed source software. Illegal use of software wasn't that big an issue for me when I was a teen, but now i'm a bit more concerned with the moral aspects of stealing someones work.

I try to point friends to freely available software as much as I can, thereby slowly trying to win them over to the Open Source community. It ain't much, but i'd like to think that every little bit helps..

Like that will stop warez

[ArchieBunker]

In other news today it was announced that the number of fserves, dccs, and ftp's decreased by a total of 0.05%.

Re:Like that will stop warez

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite a few topgroups have shutdown, some have announced pausing for two months or so...

The people who were busted were crackers.. DOD wrote DeCSS before MoRE (the latter are famous because they released sourceCode)... Razor1911 also is famous for cracking game cdroms that utilize encrypted exes, cds with pressed defects, not something that even many compSci graduates can pickup in a month.

x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[dlb]

http://www.x10.com/products/x10_ak11a.htm

And it only runs about $80.
It's pretty much the same deal since you have to have the receiver and whatever you're snarfing the mp3s from in unobstructed view from one other.

The whole Slim Devices web site seems kind of chincy anyway. But, at least they dont throw pop-under ads at you...

~dlb

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[afree87]

Oh, come on. Would you rather buy:

• Cheap product from people with pop-under ads
  
• Expensive product from people with no pop-under ads

Hmm. Tough question, actually.

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[dlb]

As sad as this sounds, I know at least two people who make their purchasing decisions on the web-behaviour of vendors. Some people just wont shop from a specific company if they're annoyed by them, be it spam mail, pop-up ads, a font they dont like...no joke.

~dlb

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[Anonymous Coward]

If by "chincy" you mean "small business, a
couple of geeks at a bench building cool stuff", then I'd agree with you. A snazzy presentation can hide crap underneath, but an amateurish (or bare bones, or "we don't care what it looks like, we're still building something nifty") look doesn't equate to an inferior product.

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[anthony_baxter]

Why is this sad? It seems perfectly reasonable to me: company has annoying advertising practices, consumers say "fuck you" and don't buy from them. Hell, if you're not going to buy x10 because of their adverts, tell them so - drop them an email. Maybe then they'll get a clue.

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[alleria]

How is this sad? They are doing what we all should be doing: if the interface sucks ass, or if the company is being careless with your user information, then boycott them.

Your acquaintences are doing the noble thing, and boycotting those establishments with less than savory business habits. And you object to their behavior and call it 'sad' because??

Re:x10.com has a similar (cheaper) product

[evilmrhenry]

Or you could run a product that disables pop-ups and be comepletely clueless about x10's ad campain.

why don't they go to china?

[Technosteve!]

My uncle on vacation here in the good old USA, while he was still in China i asked him to buy me some programs and games. well what i got was a little bit over my head. i got windows XP pro, adobe photoshop and other expensive looking programs on a three cd's. but they were not offical from there respective owners yes they were bootlegs. they even have nice cd's for the bootlegs. what gets me is they get all these programs before they even come out here in the US, and they openly sell these cd's on the street. I got a bunch of games too. i asked him if there are real cd's out there. he says yes but why would you spend about 100(insert english version of the chinese currency) on the real cd's but for pennies or dollars you get a disc that has 4 games on it. God bless china the only place microsoft isn't a monopoly.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[joshyboy]

Yeah, it's great. Although, China isn't really Microsoft-monopoly free, many people choose to ignore copyrights and such. It's actually the same really all over Asia. My brother just came back and decided it'd be nice to get me crapload of stuff for like $5. It was probably well over $5000 worth of stuff, and I ended up using Textpad off of his 3 discs, which is semi-freeware anyway. :)

Re:why don't they go to china?

[Technosteve!]

bad part id about all the free software you get is that you have to install the chinese version of Microsoft to run some of the games and the major problem of reading chinese. next time my uncle can get me a chinese to english electronic dictionary on a bootleg cd.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[MisterBlister]

Eh? You do realize its still piracy even if you pay some third party for the software, right? What you're doing is still illegal, and if caught using that software you could be charged with a felony, depending upon how much of it you have (you don't need to have very much).

In any case, if you're going to pirate software, why don't you just download it from the net? It doesn't take very long to find it (even after these busts), its convienient and you get the English versions of products.

I'm not condoning piracy, but if you're going to do it, why bother importing pirated software from overseas?

Re:why don't they go to china?

[Technosteve!]

Please don't call the cops on me mister, it's my first offense officer. I promise i never do it again.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[autopr0n]

He can't be Charged with a felony you fucking idiot. God, where do people come up with this shit? Possessing pirated copies of stuff is not a crime, only distributing them is.

God, why do people think that just because they can imagine something it's automatically true?

Re:why don't they go to china?

[Anonymous Coward]

The versions are usually in English first. The pirates follow normal software, which releases english versions first.

=me=
unwiredpr.com

Re:why don't they go to china?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there are morons like you.

What he said was true - Or else why do you think schools, businesses, and even the government can get in trouble over using software they have no license for?

Just because you lack any god-given intelligence and have an inability to do any research whatsoever, do not take it out on any other readers.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[joshyboy]

That's a problem, yeah, but one of the biggest friggin' things is different file architectures or something. I have no idea how it works, to be honest, but some stuff just won't work on an English system if it was burnt/ripped on a Russian system. I know this, cause I've tried it on my system (english), and a friend's system (Russian). It has something to do with the Syrillic(sp?) text, or so I've been told.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sheesh. Did you even read the freaking article?

No arrests have been made so far, because the Customs Service is trying to persuade more suspects to cooperate in exchange for leniency, the officials said. "We have people here," Mr. Doody said, "who have never contemplated spending any time in prison who all of a sudden are coming to the realization that, wait a minute, I'm in trouble here."

Do try to hold back your drooling smugness, dearie. I have a feeling they're going to try simply scaring the pants of a large number of people and jailing the real criminals (resellers). It's arguably even a reasonable tack to take with this.

Re:why don't they go to china?

[amorangi]

Rubbish. I am an English speaker (no Chinese at all) living in Hong Kong, and most of the software is the English/American version. There usually isn't a Chinese version of most software anyway. The only problem I have is with the Playstation games - they often are in Japanese only. Most software and even Playstation and X-Box aren't even "officially" on sale here anyway, so they deserve to get their stuff pirated - what else can you do?

NASA

[I.T.R.A.R.K.]

When NASA was preparing for the Apollo project, it did some astronaut training near a Navajo Indian reservation. One day, a Navajo elder and his son came across the space crew. The old man, who spoke only Navajo, asked a question which his son translated. "What are these guys in the big suits doing?" A member of the crew said they were practicing for their trip to the moon. The old man got very excited and asked if he could send a message to the moon with the astronauts.

Recognizing a promotional opportunity, the NASA folks found a tape recorder. After the old man recorded his message, they asked his son to translate it. He refused. They then took the tape to the reservation, where the rest of the tribe listened and laughed but refused to translate the elder's message to the moon.

Finally, the NASA crew called in an official government translator. He reported that the message said, "Watch out for these guys. They have come to steal your land."

Re:NASA

[Anonymous Coward]

So this means, uh.. Linux has come to steal my hard drive space?

Re:NASA

[I.T.R.A.R.K.]

Exactly! Now you're catching on!

sound card upgrade?

[Technosteve!]

i have a ac'97 codec on my motherboard as the sound card. would it be worth paying up to hundreds of dollars for a new sound card. the only thing i do on my pc is listen to mp3 and ogg files (has anyone made a napster for ogg files?) and play games on the puter but they all want this eax thing that i don't have. if i do upgrade do i need new speakers i have the top of the line air wave 2.1 one speakers with 3D sound option, the salesmen told me they were the best (for 20 dollars). if you see this reply so i can spend more of my parent's money.

I can't believe your arrogance

[.sig]

"I only copy one or two games a month and nobody has ever busted me."

The fact that you haven't been caught doesn't make it right. How dare you suggest that stealing "only one or two" is justified?

I know this isn't a perfect world and not every criminal can be caught, but that doesn't mean you should flaunt the fact that you haven't been caught stealing yet. (And not even posting anonymously... there are ways to track you down, especially if /. really does log personal info from users.)

The mistake these guys made was in stealing their first piece of software. They got away with it, but commit a crime enough times and you will and should eventually get caught.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[VALinux]

I can't believe you haven't got caught yet for raping little boys. Don't the neighbors hear them crying out in your toolshed?

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say he was justified. He said he didn't pirate enough to make it worth the effort of catching him, especially when there are bigger fish to fry.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[blank_coil]

You're a bit arrogant to assume that you're right in your assumption about what's right and wrong. Just because something is illegal, does not mean that it is wrong. Someone made the decision that it is wrong and made it illegal, but that just means that that person thinks it's wrong. I always laugh when I hear someone counter an argument about piracy with "stealing is stealing and it's wrong." Well, what if I don't think pirating is stealing? What if I don't feel that victimless crimes, in general, are wrong? Then the argument doesn't stand.

You have to realize that, while you believe pirating is moraly wrong, not everyone feels this way. Some things have been outlawed not because their morality is doubtful, but because of political reasons (I'm sorry, I wish I could give you some examples, but I don't have any right now, although I think opium and marijuana might be examples).

Next time you hear about something like this, instead of asking yourself "is what they did illegal?" maybe you should ask yourself "should what they did be illegal?"

Just my opinion.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[.sig]

It's not my assumption that stealing is wrong. It's a law, one held by pretty much every set of moral beliefs out there. If stealing is ok for you, then you're more than welcome to try and legalize it in whatever country you live in, but I kinda like that law.

You must win a lot of debates if nothing that you don't believe in is not a valid argument. You don't think pirating is stealing, so it's not? First off, it's not a victimless crime. You are stealing revenue from whoever owns the rights to that software. You are taking something that belongs to someone else. It doesn't matter that the original is not destroyed, you're still depriving someone of the revenue that they worked to earn. If you worked for a company for awhile, and then got fired without compensation, I'm sure you'd complain. They aren't stealing anything physical from you, but they did steal your time and effort. Is there no victim there?

While it's true that not everyone feels that stealing is wrong, that's not enough to convince me. Maybe if I knew why you thought stealing should be legal and it was a convincing enough argument I might change my mind.

Do you really think that stealing is illegal for political reasons, or was that just a smoke cloud to make your argument look more reasonable. I know plenty of laws are passed for political reasons, but that doesn't make this one of them. Who lobbied to make stealing against the law? Look it up, it was probably done for a good reason though, not just politics.

And yes, I've already asked whether stealing should be illegal. In my mind, I am 100% for this. I wouldn't want someone stealing the product of my work and then bragging about not getting caught for it. Maybe I'm the only one, but I just can't see any reason not to.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[zhensel]

I once heard a philosophy professor say a great thing about idiotic moral relativism like this:

So this relativist (sorry, forgot which) goes up to Socrates and claims, "Whatever I think right is so." Socrates spits back, "But what if I don't think so?" The relativist modifies his statement - "Whatever I think right is so for me." Socrates thinks for a moment and retorts, "I think you're wrong."

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not my assumption that stealing is wrong. It's a law, one held by pretty much every set of moral beliefs out there. If stealing is ok for you, then you're more than welcome to try and legalize it in whatever country you live in, but I kinda like that law.

copying is NOT stealing, it is a mere copyright infringment, that is you are infringing on someone's monopoly/right to copy.

There are many that believe that naming copyright infringment a theft/stealing/piracy is a good term for everyone to understand. But it is not. With copyright infringment original owner does not lose anything that they had. If anything they lose *potential* sales. Piracy has nice connotations, rape, plunder. Theft also reminds often of break and enter or threats. None of this happends with copyright infringment.

Sounds nice, lose potential sales, same thing is with Napster, they are loosing potential sale to every downloaded mp3.

Now, riddle me this:
- How come piracy rate around the world has been going down yet BSA still quotes for last decade same 12 billion dollar losses?
- How does a person who backs up warez for bragging rights, as a hobby, contribute to the 12 billion dollar losses? why is he persecuted then?
- how does a person who wants to learn debugging assembly of x86 through tracing programs and removing security is persecuted when he publishes his results? Isnt security through obsurity a lamity?
- Why arent companies like ford inspected for
internal piracy? They got money to pay.
- Why arent industrial pirates (those who sell knockoff of software, including boxes, manuals, etc) being fought?

Btw: this bust took FBI 15months to prepare, it has cost them millions of dollars. They provided two fake servers with terabytes of space and linked to oc3 each. Then they took time to do simultaneous bust of a large group of people spread around the world, with already setup cooperations with other countrys agencies.

Will this bust give the goverment any of the 12 billions dollar revenue lost to pirates? Nope, warez are still released. Will this stop recession? Nope. Will other pirates stop? Some big ones did, however I still see software pirated by my IT manager at work.

Yay for boobies.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[snol]

I don't get how that's supposed to be an argument against relativism. Unless you're prepared to name a source for your idea of rightness, you're just trumpeting your idea of right louder than the next guy. If you do have some source for your idea of rightness, who says it's the right source besides you? Socrates? Reason? Bullshit. Reason is almost plausible but then you have to name the core beliefs that you're starting from, and chances are they're contentious too. So admit it, an absolutist is just an arrogant relativist.

Not that this has anything to do with copyright infringement, or software piracy if you prefer.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[shyster]

So this relativist (sorry, forgot which) goes up to Socrates and claims, "Whatever I think right is so." Socrates spits back, "But what if I don't think so?" The relativist modifies his statement - "Whatever I think right is so for me." Socrates thinks for a moment and retorts, "I think you're wrong."

That's dumb. I'd get a new philosphy professor if he can't come up with a logical argument against that. Though amusing, there's no value in that anecdote. Socrates has simply admitted to the fact that right and wrong are in your perception and judgment. Socrates thinks the relativist is wrong, and the relativist thinks Socrates is wrong. How we're any closer to a definitive answer escapes me....But then, I can get a real job, and don't have to teach Philosophy.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[God_Retired]

Buddy, I wish that the world was as black and white as you paint it. Yes there are different shades of illegal. If I get caught with a little dime bag of pot, it's a ticket and I walk away. If I get caught with 20 pounds, it's a felony and I'm in deep trouble. Yes they are both illegal. But you must be a moron if you think a guy copying a couple of games that he couldn't afford anyway is the equivalent of mass piracy. That or you just haven't lived long enough to see that the world isn't black and white. It's hard and a lot of people never get there. Good luck.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Wntrmute]

It's not my assumption that stealing is wrong. It's a law, one held by pretty much every set of moral beliefs out there. If stealing is ok for you, then you're more than welcome to try and legalize it in whatever country you live in, but I kinda like that law.


Ahh, but we aren't talking about stealing here are we? We're talking about something completely different, called copyright infringement.

We have laws against stealing for a simple reason. To protect your property. When someone steals your property, you lose your property. This does not occur in copyright infringemnt. Even the US legal system agrees with this simple point. If I make violate copyright, I will not be charged with theft, no matter how many times the word is carelessly thrown about.

Even this nonsense about stealing revenue is faulty. No company has a right to profits. You may as well say that GM can sue me because I bought a Ford. In both this case, and in software piracy, GM/the software company has the same amount of their product as before, and one less potential customer.

Even better. Imagine a world where the Star Trek replicator suddenly becomes real. Now I don't need to buy cars/food/TVs, etc. Being able to create anything this easily would have obvious benfits to mankind, yet if it happened today it wouldn't be long before such a device was branded as "circumvention" and banned by the DMCA.

I'm just throwing out examples here. I'm not even really trying to say that IP rights are always wrong. There are some real tricky problems and questions here about where society is headed, and knocking down the straw man of "theft" and "piracy", does nothing to advance the debate in either direction.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anthony Boyd]

You don't think pirating is stealing, so it's not? First off, it's not a victimless crime. You are stealing revenue from whoever owns the rights to that software. You are taking something that belongs to someone else. It doesn't matter that the original is not destroyed, you're still depriving someone of the revenue that they worked to earn.

So that's how you make this argument. I have been trying unsuccessfully for quite some time to simplify my thoughts on copyright infringement. Your comment that this is theft of a revenue stream, even if it is an "artifical" one created by laws, sums up exactly what I was trying so miserably to say in a few previous /. posts. I'm disappointed to see that your post is only moderated to a +2. Even if the moderators disagree with your points, they ought to give you credit for being more well-spoken than the rest of us.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[FrostedChaos]

You missed socrates' whole point.

Relativist: Whatever I think right is so for me.
Socrates: I think you're wrong.

The implication here is that the relativist is wrong in the eyes of Socrates. Relativisim itself says relativism is false. Who could believe a self-congratulatory, self-contradictory ideology like this.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

"So this relativist (sorry, forgot which) goes up to Socrates and claims, "Whatever I think right is so." Socrates spits back, "But what if I don't think so?" The relativist modifies his statement - "Whatever I think right is so for me." Socrates thinks for a moment and retorts, "I think you're wrong."
That's dumb. I'd get a new philosphy professor if he can't come up with a logical argument against that. Though amusing, there's no value in that anecdote. Socrates has simply admitted to the fact that right and wrong are in your perception and judgment. Socrates thinks the relativist is wrong, and the relativist thinks Socrates is wrong. How we're any closer to a definitive answer escapes me....But then, I can get a real job, and don't have to teach Philosophy. "

First off, I'm posting as an AC only because at 2:50AM, I am way too lazy to look up my password since I am not using my normal browser. Eh, sometimes exploder is a teeny bit quicker than waiting for opera to load up, but enough of that.

The main thing you are missing in the post prior to your's is how they are scoring the debate. As far as a beginner like myself can tell, these philisophical debates are scored allong the lines of the game of 'UpWords'. If you haven't played it, you should... pretty much like scrabble for idiots.

You basicly score points by destroying the other persons work without removing it. An example (for upwords...) would be changing the word 'buck' into 'backwards'. You get the picture?

The relitivist makes a statement, Aristol's remark was intended to show a flaw in the origional statement, but did not erase the origional, it built on it. Another analogy (for the hacker crowd) would be a backdoor to a system. i.e. This system is secure...except for this gaping security hole that I unintentionally left.

That is the art of Philosophy. If you look at it carefully, you will find that a lot of what we do today is built on what was discussed in a bath house several centuries ago... everything from legal-eze to computer programming. Again, its not about flaming someone into the background, its about sniping him with a golden bullet.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[zhensel]

Yeah, I should've put in there that I really forgot exactly how the professor worded it and that his telling of the story was a bit more convincing than mine. I haven't taken a philosophy class yet though. I should be taking Philosophy in Film at some point to get closer to finishing my cinema minor, but we shall see. Anyhow, there was a bigger jump between the relativist's theories and Socrates final jab had a bit more tact than I can give it in a bastardized second telling. You also can't underestimate the power of a scrawny philosophy professor building up relativist theory for five minutes and then tearing it all down in five seconds with such a quick story. It was definitely better than the chemistry tutorial that I had the option of attending.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[snol]

Well, I guess I could take two strategies from here. I could either say OK, it's Socrates' right to think there's one absolute right ideology, and my right to think, well, everyone has their own ideology and no one is demonstrably better than any other - well, that's just what the relativist is trying to show. Your paradox isn't necessarily a paradox; at first it seems to accept a system wherein truth is weighed on an individual basis, and then compounds the contradictory opinions of two different people and uses that to show a contradiction - well, of couse. On the other hand, I could say OK, so your point is relativism is self-contradictory, and my point is absolutism has no basis except for relativism - you think you're right because, well, that's your opinion. We seem to be left with no possible ideology that isn't either self-contradictory or based in something self-contradictory. No ideology works out to be particularly good. Which is frankly just fine with me; but isn't that just what you were trying to avoid?

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Mof-Tan]

You are missing the point. "Software piracy" is not stealing, it is copyright infringment. Now, I agree it is wrong to copy and use something without paying for it.

So why have I and the great majority of computer users been doing it all along?

The reason is the pricing model. The whole system of selling one boxed copy of software in a store for often hundreds of dollars is crazy! It is wildly ignorant of the nature of software and the way people use it. It also completely ignores the fact that only a small minority of computer owners can afford to pay such prizes in addition to the hardware.

The whole industry has to re-think how to price software towards private individuals. I actually think a rent-like system where you pay a small fee is much better than the complete sham we use now. Please keep in mind that everybody feels much better being on the right side of the law.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Pussy Is Money]

Yes, nice, but dreadfully boring.

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." (Hassan i Sabbah)

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[awol]

You don't think pirating is stealing, so it's not? First off, it's not a victimless crime. You are stealing revenue from whoever owns the rights to that software. You are taking something that belongs to someone else. It doesn't matter that the original is not destroyed, you're still depriving someone of the revenue that they worked to earn. If you worked for a company for awhile, and then got fired without compensation, I'm sure you'd complain. They aren't stealing anything physical from you, but they did steal your time and effort. Is there no victim there?

First of all, before we wonder whether it is victimless let us first ensure that we agree that it is a crime. I agree with you that something that is simply victimless is no less a wrong. So now we must try and determine if there is a wrong here (and let us use the term wrong, because crime carries with it more baggage than we need since in general copyright infringement is a civil wring and not a crime [at least until the DCMA, but that is a _whole_ other story])

Now in order to steal, and let us suppose that stealing is the correct wrong to use, one must first have property. In order to have property it must be sanctioned by the State as property. For example, it is not usual for for the state to grant property in illegal substances. A kg of narcotics is not something over which you can assert your property rights, the briefcase in which it was held yes, the narcotics no. So in the same way that you argue that just because something is not "real" doesn't mean it is not property, realness is not even a sufficient test for property.

As an aside, in fact there are _many_ systems that fail to recognise private property (the private is really important for these arguments), including almost all preindustrial cultures, and then also many of the more reactionary ideologies of the last 100 years, socialism, collectivism, communism, even anarchism. So the universal acceptance of theft as a wrong is not a good place to base an argument. For waht its worth, I agree that theft is wrong.

So if we can find property in software somehow then we can find a wrong in its theft. This is where the alarm bells should be ringing (i shall return to the revenue stream later). Your example of the working and being fired is not a good one for a couple of reasons. First, since once I have expended my labour (uncompensated) on the project in question, I cannot get it back so failure to compensate is a wrong. Second, its a bad example becuase its a contract between parties where one side has failed to meet their obligations and so it is even more problematic to run the "theft" argument since contract allows persons to arrange their own obligations.

Now for the revenue stream argument. It seems that you are founding your entire argument on the fact that denying a revenue stream is a wrong. This is problematic at best. What about the situation where you have the local paper shop and I open up in competition, selling exactly the same papers, to exactly the same clients, but since you have already identified the paper readers i just follow you round on your paper round and offer drop a pamphlet to all the readers that I will deliver the same paper for the same price but hand delivered to their door at exactly the time they want (so the paper isn't wet or late or whatever) and they can change their time on an ad hoc basis for ehen they sleep in. (Oh and I can afor to do this 'cause I have loads of kids doing the delivery for a pittance) so I am still making money. Now I think that most would agree that I am "taking" your revenue stream, and if I expanded the letterbox drop to everyone in the area, even more so taking the future revenue stream. But what we have just described is pretty much what I would call competition.

Now even if one disagrees with my example and I am happy to conceed that it is somewhat contrived, there are many other was to elminate the concept of a revenue stream as a right that I think one must concede that protecting a revenue stream does not entitle one to claim property

So let us return to the idea of a piece of software that I have written that I begin to distribute. The problem I have with your argument and the argument of all the reists (I like that word even if it does not extist), ie those who will find property in the output of intellect, is that you presuppose the existince of the software in the paradigm of property and therefore require property to justify the creation of the software (or book or film or music). Consider an alternative world where your revenue stream is not guaranteed and you do not have property in the output of intellect. How did the software get written, well either someone commissioned it or you wrote it on spec or you are paid wages by people to do stuff because they liked your output (or the cost is reasonable and what goes around comes around, ie you might solve their problem one day and someone elses another).

The commissioning method is the way a vast number of systems get written even today (sure most people want to be able to resell them and the more complex they are the greater the opportunity even with no property) and the third option, about wages, is the way IT departments in big companies work so the property issue is kind of ancilliary to getting the majority of lines of code written even today when property is mandated by law.

The reason for this rather extensive reply is that theoretically there is no property in the output of intellect, in fact we do have such property because of law and this law is just wrong (IMNSHO). But one will never be able to justify the existence of IP (and hence the copying is stealing argument) in logic because the initial premise is flawed and not logically consistent.

PS sorry about the spelling and typing

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[.sig]

How is compyright infringment different than stealing? It has a different name, but so does Grand Theft Auto, and that's still illegal. (At least in australia it is) It doesn't matter what you call it, it's still illegal.

I agree that no company is entitled to profits. That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that if someone creates something and owns the rights to it, then you cannot make an illegal copy of it. If someone works to create something, then that person owns the rights to it. They can decide to give it away, sell it, rent it, or whatever. If they decide to sell it, though, you are not justified in taking an unauthorized copy just because you don't want to pay for it.

Just because something is not physical does not mean that it is without value. While I agree that copyright and patent laws could use some modification, now that information travels much faster than it used to, and the life of information is much shorter, I don't think they should be abolished. Few people are willing to work to create something if they know that they won't be compensated for their time. For some people, a sense of recognition is enough compensation. Others prefer something more monetary. Just look at the whole free software group. How much is out there that the everyday user can and would want to use? So far all I've seen is assorted attempts to provide some of the functionality currently existing in some closed software. People who code for free can't very well make a living off of it, so it's hardly a full time thing, and therefore much slower.

By it's very nature, ametuer products are usually inferior to professional ones, and if you aren't being paid to do something, most people would no longer choose to do it professionally. Money doesn't grow on trees after all, and you need to make a living somehow. Most artist work a full time job in addition to their artwork, as well as most free software proponents, but if all software was written as a hobby, there'd be a lot less done, especially the development intensive ones, and we'd be back to playing hunt the wumpus on 8mHz machines.

And as for the star trek replicator paragraph, if something like that were to come out it would have a huge impact on society, and probably result in a major change in property laws, including these copyright and patent ideas. After all, without scarcity, modern economics is pretty much lost.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[shyster]

Well, of course it was better than the chem tutorial! I've had BSOD's that were more fun than chem classes!

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed! as an absolutist I have waited so long for the relativist to admit they too are arrogant.

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[screwtheNSA]

Okay, let's talk about the nazi that gave you a ticket for "speeding"...Is driving faster REALLY a "criminal" thing to do, when we all know cops do it all the time? Who is actually hurting by you driving faster than 55, the street? Does doing this too, make one a criminal just because the "law" states it is? The state IS taking YOUR money without even a whimper from you...STEALING it for doing something that hurts nor affects anybody. Don't even TRY to tell me that driving 10 over is "endangering" life etc....it doesn't...cops are NOT race car drivers and I have NEVER had ANY accidents in the 25 years I have been behind the wheel, and this includes semi's, tracked vehicles and "jeeps" as well as buses and many, many other vehicles. Speed does not kill; stupidity kills! Driving 55 on icy roads is DUMB and WILL get you into accidents, but driving 55 or even 80 on a clean road harms nobody. Driving IS a RIGHT when MY money funds the road construction projects, pays the highway department for maintaining the roads, and yeah, even overpaying some nazi to cite me for exceeding the "limit" the very same limit they have but ignore anytime they choose. SUPPORT THE NATIONAL RIGHT TO DRIVE MOVEMENT! You paid for it, you OWN it!

Re:I can't believe your arrogance

[Anonymous Coward]

Who could believe a self-congratulatory, self-contradictory ideology like this

It's not self-contradictory. The dialog should continue:

Relativist: If you think me wrong, then I am wrong -- for you.

The person who answered you previously, saying that "reason-based" estimations of moral right and wrong remain contentious at root, was correct, and you had no answer for him other than to say he didn't "get" your flawed syllogism.

Was this by any chance a community college you were attending?

BUCK

[ForWhomTheHellTrolls]

I WOULD LIKE TO BUCK YOUR HARD FORD

heheh i said buck uh huh huh huh

I said it hard

My sentiments exactly

[freebsd guy]

Typically, when I am helping my clients or friends make a choice between using Free software or "stretching licenses" for commercial software, I use the comparison:

"Why rob a bank when the credit union next door is handing out $100 bills?"

And that analogy is perfect for this situation.

freebsd guy

Re:My sentiments exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

hey freebsd gay, you suck for free too? spit or swallow?

Re:My sentiments exactly

[MisterBlister]

"Why rob a bank when the credit union next door is handing out $100 bills?"

Unfortunately, the credit union is usually handing out $100 bills that don't interact well with the money currently in wide circulation, and upon seeing these odd $100 bills, most cashiers will get a blank look on their face, not knowing what to do with them.

I'm not saying this is the _fault_ of Open Source, but it IS a barrier to its adoption.

Re:My sentiments exactly

[jonbrewer]

There are quite a few ways to legally stretch licenses. There are programs that will run on a network server that will monitor the number of copies of any software, including Office. On a budget, it's a much better idea to buy 20 copies of Office for 50 people, and use one of these license tracking applications than it is to illegally stretch or to choose a free office package that may not suit the needs of the business.

Re:My sentiments exactly

[Mignon]

There are programs that will run on a network server that will monitor the number of copies of any software, including Office.

D00D - wh3r3 c@n 1 637 [get] 0n3 [one] 0f 74353 [these] pr06r@m5?

Re:My sentiments exactly

[screwtheNSA]

47 48 669 2665 86 8255 46 6862377? (Is it now cool to talk in numbers) It "must" be another form of "code" or encryption, right? Please post something good to read.

What about NuSphere GPL Violation?

[hackel]

Has everyone on slashdot forgotten about NuSphere's apparent violation of the GPL with their non-free Gemini table extensions? This seems to be a serious issue that very much deserves defending... Especially now that mysql.org is down (was Gemini source every available there?), it's important we don't forget what they are doing, and that we remain in an uproar, as we always are when evil companies violate the GPL. Can anyone offer any news on this?

Re:What about NuSphere GPL Violation?

[Technosteve!]

NO.

First Post Dissing CmdrTaco!

[Anonymous Coward]

CmdrTaco's "Gaping Anus" 1.0

You can be just like me!

It has recently come to my attention that the entire Slashdot crew engage in homosexual activities. CmdrTaco is one such person, and has dedicated his life to this disgusting habit and many others. For further information on Taco-Snotting please refer to George WIPO Bush's Taco-Snotting FAQ which can be easily found by searching for the Slashdot journal of George WIPO Bush or by looking in the comments of Slashdot articles (Usually modded -1).

It has also come to my attention that CmdrTaco has other interests besides homosexuality (Believe it or not). One such interest includes a budding music career with a song titled "Gaping Anus". The details are sketchy on this topic but I do know that besides the lead vocals of CmdrTaco, it includes Timothy and CowboyNeal (Also members of the Slashdot crew). There has been no release date set for this album or which record label it will be produced under. I believe CmdrTaco is planning to set up his own label, Taco-Snotting Records, with the intention of releasing the song on a cd-single with various remixes as soon as possible (To catch the current popularity of the Taco-Snotting fad). On a side note, I would not believe this fad will ever wear out (like a Snotted-out-geek); I am sorry to say Taco-Snotting is here to stay :-(. Various remixes of Gaping Anus will include: "Extra Jizz", "Snot Me Baby One More Time", "www.Goatse.cx", and "Once You Taco-Snot, You Can't Stop". I am sure many, many, more are sure to come. I predict this album will be a very hot seller this holiday season, especially with in or out of closet homosexuals, and with those who have no self-respect (Readers of Slashdot).

Through a good, non-homosexual friend of mine, I have recieved a copy of the lyrics to the Gaping Anus musical composition. Included after the lyrics is a very speical tribute written by yours truely. Perhaps CmdrTaco will ask me to provide the vocals. Please feel free to read the lyrics and post your comments and disgust.

BTW, please do not reply with the intention of flaming me because the lyrics are a rip-off of Insane Clown Posse's "Slim Anus". For more information on ICP and Slim Anus refer here and here. CmdrTaco is the author of this fine musical work and not me. So, it is obviously he who has ripped off ICP and not me. Thank you.

Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is Gaping Anus
Hi, my name is huh?
My name is what?
My name is the fudgepacker
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is the nutlicker
Hi, my name is what? (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My name is who?
My name is the buttsniffer

Hi, kids do you like Anus?
I let Linus Torvalds fill up my butt for a chance to be famous (Uh huh)
Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did? (Yeah)
Try Taco-Snotting and get your butt pumped out like I did?
My brains dead weight
I'm tryin to get my head straight
But I can't figure out
Which Slashdot editor I wanna impregnate
Timothy said, "CmdrTaco you a cutie" (Uh huh)
"I'll give you a deal, let me up in that booty" (OK!)
Well since age 12 I felt like I'm someone else
Cause I choked my original self Taco-Snotting him (Yup)
Got pissed off and ripped CowboyNeal's tits off
He don't know how to do Chris D
I'd suck his dick off

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it gets tapped dawg
Hi, my anus (Excuse me)
My anus
My anus every now and then gets plugged up
Hi, my anus (Can I have the attention of your ass?)
My anus
My anus is occasionally reamed out
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus really needs to be filled up

My boss tried to fire me yesterday
I told him to take his pants off, hooked him up, he let me slide
I pinched his ass
He winked at me
He chased me around the desk
I told him "Come and get me!"
Walked in the strip club
Had my jacket zipped up
Flashed the bartender
And I tried to feel his dick up
Homosexuals Circle-Snotting pedestrians
Near a gay bar while they screamin at me
Let's just be friends!
99% of my life I was lied to
I just found out my Mom screws more guys than I do (Damn)
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous Taco-Snotter
She met Michael, I couldn't believe it when he slapped her
You know you blew up when the women rush the stands
And try to touch your hands
But I need me a man
This guy at Gay Al's strip club asked for my autograph (Dude can I get your
autograph?)
So I signed it Dear Alan Cox, thanks for the support
Nice ass!

Hi, my name is huh?
My name is who? (Excuse me)
My name is (They call me the pore plugger)
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is the inch itcher (Excuse me)
One of Slashdot's homosexuals
They call me the butt itcher
Hi, my name is what?
My name is who?
My name is (I've been called Hemos' butt boy)

Stop the tape this gaylord needs to be locked away (Get him)
Cliff, don't just stand there operate
Or feel up my balls and buttcheeks
Anal lube got my ass greasy for weeks
Stick your manhood between my cheeks (Yup)
Am I coming or going
I can barely decide
I just drank a gallon of semen
Dare me to drive? (Go ahead)
All my life I was very deprived
CowboyNeal's butt is too sexy to hide
Take your pants off Neal I don't mind
Clothes rip like the incredible Hulk
I Taco-Snot when I talk
I do any guy that walks
When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits
Sometimes I sit and wish Hemos had a set of tits
CowboyNeal: "Get behind me CmdrTaco and grab me by my hips"
If I do that then I can't kiss you on your lips
By the way if you see my Dad
Ask him if he seen my spread in Gay House Porno Mag

Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus gets tapped up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus it's always getting plugged up
Hi, my anus who?
My anus what?
My anus occasionally reamed out
My anus it needs to be filled up

Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting plugged
Your anus
Your anus
Your anus is always getting stuffed
You wanna diss us?
We don't even know you you little bitch
You wanna sit there and diss us?
You little bitch I'll slap your face off
That's what happens when you go up against the Slashdot Trolls trick
You little bitch (Laughs)
Gaping Anus!

Re:First Post Dissing CmdrTaco!

[Technosteve!]

i see you have this down to a science.

Re:First Post Dissing CmdrTaco!

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me...but is that a dildo up your ass or are you just a raging homosexual?

Re:First Post Dissing CmdrTaco!

[Technosteve!]

i'm from jersey you don't want to mess with us.

MEEPT!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ho! Ho!

BUCK an ear ! The meept is selling "ears" for a buck a piece.

More than slapdown is being sold for !

MEEPT!!

According to these figures i just made up...

[Mike Schiraldi]

From the article:

Law-enforcement officials said more raids were imminent as they tried to shut down a multi-billion- dollar international piracy ring

Multi-billion dollar? How do they come up with these figures? "Oh, it cost our studio ten million dollars to make this movie, and you have a copy on your hard drive, so you stole ten million dollars from us."

If we had a police state like this 80 years ago, Prohibition would never have been repealed.

Re:According to these figures i just made up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow--a $10 million dollar movie. Stealing indie movies now?

Re:According to these figures i just made up...

[MisterBlister]

The billions of dollars figures come from supposed "lost revenue". eg. We have a product that costs $500; we have tracked 10,000 pirated versions of this software to pirates. We lost $5,000,000 in revenue because these pirates didn't pay.

Of course, it doesn't really add up -- if a pirate version of that software wasn't available, all but a very small percent of those 10,000 pirates wouldn't have actually bought the product... From what I see, most pirates don't even use the vast majority of software they get, they just archive it and build vast collections for bragging rights.

Don't buy from X10

[freebsd guy]

X10 has adopted some rather ruthless marketing practices, so anybody concerned about their right not to be subjected to pop-under Flash ads on every other site should boycott X10.

freebsd guy

MOD AS INFORMATIVE!

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD AS INFORMATIVE!...CAUSE IT IS!

So I was watching South Park last night... it was a new episode about sex education. While watching it, I busted up laughing at the scene when Mr. Garrison was asking his kindergarten students what sexual positions they knew off the top of their head. One kid said "missionary," while another said "doggie." Yet another kid said "piledriver" (piledriver?) and so on. But the funniest position they said was "The Filthy Sanchez." I was laughing like an idiot... simply because my last name is Sanchez. For a moment I thought it was simply a made up term. Then upon more thought, it dawned on my that perhaps The Filthy Sanchez IS an actual sexual act, thus beginning my extensive research on sexual acts such as The Filthy Sanchez and much more I can uncover.
Presented before you, ladies and gentlemen, is a list of heinous sexual acts I found while surfing the internet. Be forewarned... some of them are... SICK!!

1. Hot Lunch - While receiving head from a woman, you proceed to shit on her chest. (A.k.a. the Cleveland Steamer)

2. The Stranger - Sitting on your hand until it falls asleep and then jerking off, eliciting the feeling of a hand job from someone else.

3. Western Grip- When jerking off, turn your hand around, so that your thumb is facing towards you. It is the same grip that rodeo folks use. Hence, western.

4. The Blumpkin- You need to find a real tramp to do this right. It involves having her sucking you off while you are on the shitter.

5. Donkey Punch - Banging a girl doggy style and then moments before you cum, sticking your dick in her ass, and then punching her in the back of the head. This gives a tremendous sensation, but for it to work correctly, the girl must be knocked out so that her asshole tightens up.

6. Golden Shower - Any form of pissing all over a chick (a.k.a.- watersports)

7. Pearl Necklace - Well known. Whenever you cum on the neck/cleavage area of a girl - it takes on the look of beautiful jewelry.

8. Coyote - This occurs when you wake up in the room of a nasty wombat and you know you've got to give her the slip. However, you realize that your arm is wrapped around her. Therefore you must gnaw off your own arm to get out of the situation. Can be very painful.

9. Purple Mushroom - This occurs when a woman is giving you oral sex and you withdraw your penis in order to poke it back into her cheek. It should leave a lasting impression similar to purple mushroom.

10. The Flying Camel - A personal favorite. As she is lying on her back and you are hammering her from your knees, you carefully balance yourself without using your arms to prop yourself up. You then proceed to flap your arms and let out a long, shrieking howl, much like a coyote. Strictly a class move.

11. Fishhook - A variation of the shocker in which you pull back towards the pussy after you stick your finger up her anus.

12. The Ram - Again, you're attacking from behind, when you start ramming her head against the wall in a rhythmic motion. The force of the wall should allow for deeper penetration. Very
handy for those lulls in penile sensitivity.

13. Bismarck- This is another one involving oral sex. Right before you are about to cum, you pull out, shooting your load all over her face. Follow that with a punch and smear the blood and cum together.

14. Jelly Dougnut: A derivation of the Bismark. All you have to do is punch her in the nose while you are getting head.

15. The Woody Woodpecker: When a girl is sucking on your balls, tap the head of your cock on her forehead.

16. Dog in a Bathtub - This is a proper name for when you attempt to insert your nuts into a girl's ass. It is so named because it can be just as hard as keeping a dog in the tub while giving it a bath.

17. Tossing Salad - Another prison act where one person is forced to basically chow asshole with the help of whatever condiments are available, i.e. Jell-O, olive oil, etc. I'm never going to prison.

18. Rim Job: Another name for tossing salad. Focuses on the use of the tongue.

19. The Bucking Bronco- An all time classic. You start by going
doggy style on a girl and then just when she is really enjoying it, you grab onto her tits or hips as tightly as possible and call her a big fat no-good worthless slob. More than likely, she will try to escape. This will give you the feeling of riding a bronco as she tries to buck you off.

20. Pink glove - This frequently happens during sex when a girl is not wet enough. When you pull out to give her money, the inside of her twat sticks to your hog. Thus, the pink glove.

21. The Fountain of You - While sitting on her face and having her eat your ass, jerk off like a madman. Build up as much pressure as possible before releasing, spewing like a venerable geyser all over her face, neck and tits. (Better in her bed).

22. New York Style Taco - Anytime when you are so drunk that when you go down, you boot on her box. Happy trails.

23. The Filthy Sanchez - A time honored event in which while laying the bone doggie style, you insert Your finger into said woman's asshole, pull it out, wipe it across her upper lip leaving a thin, shit moustache. This makes her look like someone whose name would be Filthy Sanchez. (also called Dirty Sanchez)

24. The Fish Eye - From behind, you shove your finger in her ass (or his if you are in prison). Thereupon she turns around in a one-eyed winking motion to see what the hell you are doing.

25. Tuna Melt - You're down on a chick lapping away and discover that it just happens to be the time of the month. By no means do you stop though. When the whale spews, tartar sauce with a hint of raspberry smothers your face.

26. Fur Ball - You're chomping away at some mighty trollop who has a mane between her legs the size of Lionel Richie's Afro, when a mammoth fur ball gets lodged in your throat and causes you to beat the piss out of her.

27. The ChiliDog - You take a shit on a girl's tits and then proceed to titty fuck her.

28. Gaylord Perry: Going to only one knuckle during an anal probe is for wimps. Make this famous knuckle ball pitcher proud and use multiple knuckles on that virgin corn hole. A minimum of two knuckles required (either on one finger or on multiple).

29. Rear Admiral: An absolute blast. When getting a chic from behind (while both partners standing), make sure you don't let her grab on to anythingwhen she is bent over. Then, drive your hips into her backside so that you end up pushing her forward. The goal is to push her into a wall or table. It's almost as much fun to have her trip on her face on the floor. You become an Admiral when you can push her around the room without crashing into anything and not using your hands to grab onto her hips.

30. Glass Bottom Boat: Putting saran wrap over your partners face and proceeding to lay a hot shit there.

31. Ray-Bans: Put your testicles over her eye sockets while getting head. (Picture it: ass on forhead) It may be anatomically impossible, but it is definitely worth a try.

32. Snowmobile: Always a blast. When getting a girl while she's on all fours, sweep out her arms so she falls on her face.

33. Dutch Oven: Rather simple. Whenever you bust ass while in the sack pull the covers over both of your head so she can enjoy your pork and beans as well.

Re:MOD AS INFORMATIVE!

[Anonymous Coward]

DAMNIT I SAID MOD AS INFORMATIVE!

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!

cowboy �berNeal and NY Times

[Anonymous Coward]

time for a Cowboy ÜberNeal poll on NY times Registration.

page lengthening post!

[iamklerck]

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Theft is theft.

[Bob_Robertson]

Just because taxes are theft doesn't make theft any less wrong.

However, I do agree with you that taxes would be better spent, if spent at all, prosecuting violent crimes.

If you believe your taxes are better spent catching software thieves, then donate to the BSA or whatever it's called. If you think it's better spent on violent crime, then send your money to someone who prosecutes violent crime. Or NORML, to convince the thugs to go after violent criminals instead of peaceful private drug users.

I would gladly donate to a fund that tracks down and prosecutes murderers, rapists and muggers, but I have no money left since my money has already been taken by some of the worst thieves I've ever seen. They wear badges.

Bob-

Re:Theft is theft.

[susano_otter]

Idiot. If I believe that my taxes are being spent on the wrong things, how does me spending even more money on the right things solve that problem?

Answer: It doesn't.

I think you meant to say "lobby your govermnent reps to change how your tax money is spent".

HTH. HAND.

Re:Theft is theft.

[dytin]

No, I think that what he is trying to a say is that there should be less taxes in general so that we can spend/donate our money to what we think is actually useful. He is not trying to say that we should be forced to lobby our government reps to spend our money differently(slow, tedious and ineffective). It is much more efficient and effective to simply donate the money to charities/organizations ourselves. (This is not to mention the increased choice that we have in where our money goes.)

Windows Licensing

[statusbar]

• I sure hope that Ford (like many large companies) at the very least gives Ford employees dibs on any computers that are being replaced within the company to make up for each new round of Windows.

But that is illegal unless they wipe the windows off the hard disks and install Linux/NetBSD/etc on it instead. Or, they can pay microsoft their extortion/protection fee.

The windows licenses that the corporation bought are not transferrable. In the future you will not be able to buy older versions of windows at all. Yet, the newer versions of windows (XP) won't work nicely on these computers - otherwise why would they be getting replaced?

So in a roundabout way, microsoft makes linux the only option for people with older computers - especially if the computers are hand-me-downs.

--jeff

Re:Windows Licensing

[qubezz]

Slow down there, cowboy! No need to worry, the Windows XP licence includes backwards downgrades: companies still looking to install an NT4 license on a machine can buy the $200 XP license for that machine and install Windows NT4/2000/Windows 98.

See, you only need to pay $200 if you want to keep that operating system on the computer when you sell it (and Microsoft can report about all the corporations adopting XP).

Besides, just wait for a company to dot-bomb, and buy the computer with the operating system and much more on the hard drive. ...Oh, sorry, they forgot to rifle throught the old IT storage cabinets and get that OS's license certificate for you, looks like you might need to bid on file cabinets too!

Re:Windows Licensing

[statusbar]

Or, they can pay microsoft their extortion/protection fee.

Or, they can install linux for free.

A hand-me-down computer from a corporation can not be given for free if it has windows on it. That is officially piracy.

--jeff

Re:Windows Licensing

[johu]

That's incorrect. Apparently you haven't been working on company that has Microsoft Select with Enterprise Agreement.

You pay yearly fee for right to use ANY version of Windows, Office, BackOffice CALs, etc. You don't need to buy separate licenses for these products at beginning EXCEPT Windows license.

So when you buy new Compaq PC with OEM Windows 98SE and your company uses only Win2000 it's not a problem since you have necessary licenses. However if you somehow managed to buy new PC without Windows you'll need to buy separate Windows license from Microsoft or nearest PC store. Version doesn't matter since you have license to use any version you want.

Regarding Office etc. there's no such odd requirements. I suppose reason Microsoft requires you buy Windows with new PC is their deals with OEM's. If Compaq could sell PC's without Windows to large companies they would sell PC's without Windows to individuals as well which could eventually bring bigger market share for Linux and other alternative OS's.

Solution to companies selling their old PC's to employees is put Win95 OSR2 to all of them since all PC's have license to at least old Win95 (PC's with Win98 licenses can legally be installed with Win95 or Win3x), upgrade latest fixes, Internet Explorer 6 and StarOffice. All either already licensed or free.

Regarding actual license papers or codes it doesn't really matter. Microsoft says you can't move OEM Windows license from your old PC to your new PC. Therefore old PC will have valid license even if you lose media (if provided by OEM at all) or serial and license paper. New PC's have that license as a sticker on top or bottom so that problem doesn't even apply to them.

Re:Windows Licensing

[statusbar]

Ok, but that doesn't make sense in light of this and this.

If all PC's have license to at least old Win95, then why would "Microsoft release a statement saying it would provide 150 packs of Windows 95 and 10 refurbished computers worth a total of about $33,370 ($65,000 Australian) as a "gesture of good will" to Australian charity organizations--the Rotary Club of Geelong and the Geelong YMCA.

All the computers that were donated had windows on them. But the license was not transferrable.

--jeffk

Re:Windows Licensing

[Surak]

You don't have to worry, they probably don't do it. If Ford is anything like General Motors, then they destroy their old computers. GM has a strict policy of destroying anything they are putting out to pasture, include furniture, computers, equipment, etc., because in the past people abused the giving employees first dibs bit. Managers would throw stuff away and buy new stuff just so they could take it to their house.

Re:Windows Licensing

[Anonymous Coward]

The windows licenses that the corporation bought are not transferrable.

Only if the corporation signed a contract with Microsoft. If you can put down money and walk out with the software without signing a "license agreement" contract, fair use and the implied warranty of merchantability give you the right to run the software, and the first sale doctrine gives you the right to sell the copy you bought (but not make more copies) without needing permission from the copyright holder.

Copyright law has been stretched far past its Constitutional mandate, and even still the way Microsoft is shaking down their own customers is flagrantly illegal. But civil justice is so prohibitively expensive that it isn't in anyone's rational self-interest to fight, so it'll take someone hiding high principles and a large bankroll to put a stop to them.

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Audigy

[afidel]

Actually for anyone writing music there is a very, very good reason to upgrade to an audigy. It has 4x more power, so more effects can be done in hardware. It also has ASIO drivers. With a SB Live I get ~70ms latency in Propellerheads Reason, with the Audigy and the newer drivers you get ~8ms. This makes a huge diffence when trying to sync live/semilive effects to the midi streams.

Theft is theft...

[Bob_Robertson]

I have to agree. Getting in trouble by copying Microsoft software? Talk about adding insult to injury!

The real treasure is the movies, though. Seriously, legal DVD's are not all that expensive, what's the draw? If the persecutors, I mean prosecutors, weren't using "list price" of the software to rack up the "multi-billion dollar pirate ring" charge, just how much "value" did these crooks steal anyway?

Bob-

Re:Theft is theft...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I mean no one wants the 1,000$ Adobe Photoshop or the 5,000$ 3dsMax, I will not even quote Alias WaveFront Maya with the clustered Pixar's Renderman...

Each of them took same amount of space as a movie, so which utilized his space better for piracy, the one who took 5 movies for 2gigs, or one who took 3DSMax? do the math

Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machine.

[MsGeek]

no dont.
buy a turtle beach santa cruz.
1/2 the price and 3 times the quality.
check the specs, it blows away anything creative can make and borders on professional quality.

Yes, but what if you have a machine with only four PCI slots and you want to replace both the sucky on-mobo sound and add Firewire to your system? You have these cards installed:
1.)Xpert 128 PCI video to kill the hideous i810 Vampire Video;
2.)TV Wonder;
3.)Intel NIC

Pop question: what do you do?

a: Get the Santa Cruz and forget about Firewire, or:
b: Get the Audigy OEM for $20 less than the Santa Cruz and have a little less audio fidelity but all the functionality?

I'm going to run this beastie on 2KPro. (Please don't flame me...I have my reasons.) Suggestions are welcome.

MySQL Dispute

[retrosteve]

For those interested in whose SQL it is anyway, it appears to me that MySQL AB won the dispute. They got the offending site taken down and redirected, and in return appear to have removed their story from their own web site. You can get Mysql AB's side of the story from Google's cache here.

Nightmares

[The Ape With No Name]

fountain-city-nightmares
Those are no more than the spillover from Christenberry Heights, Tim.

X10 product is *totally* different...

[nyquist_theorem]

Uhh did you actually read about the SliMP3?

That X10 thing, I see (after unblocking the entire x10.com domain from my machine) is a simple wireless transmitter, something like a cordless baby monitor with a remote control. It purports to be "digital" (the same as those headphones that say "digital ready" on them at radio shack - try running a raw PCM stream into em and watch what happens) where really all it is is a radio transmitter and a remote control that plugs into your sound card and requires (undoubtedly silly) software (undoubtedly windoze only) to work. The SliMP3 is a *TOTALLY* different thing. Whoever modded this up obviously failed to pay any attention whatsoever to what either product is. How does the SliMP3 mean "you have to have the receiver and whatever you're snarfing the mp3s from in unobstructed view from one other" (whatever that means?!!?)? It's ethernet. Ethernet is actually able to go thru walls and whatnot... Colour me confused.

Re:X10 product is *totally* different...

[dlb]

Oh, you're right -- I think I confused the IR of the REMOTE CONTROL with the core product. Silly me.

And technically, ethernet can only go through walls if Layer 1 is able to go through walls.

Would you really want to shell out $250 for something as delicate as that? Look how exposed the thing is!!

No we don't

[autopr0n]

Moron. How many of the "Convicted felons" out there even know what a 'warez kiddie' is. It's not like these kids arn't going to be thrown in with the stock manipulators and stuff in min-sec prisons.

sliMP3 has slimming effect on wallet?

[JohnPM]

Very cool device, but $269 is pretty excessive considering you can get cheaper fully contained players for less. For example the 10G Neo Jukebox for $220. Hmm paradoxically you can buy the Neo Jukebox without the hard drive for an extra $10 at MTE.

I'm not saying don't buy one. The point is that you just know devices like this sliMP3 could be sold profitably for less than $50 if the volume was high enough. They are essentially the same as the Neo jukebox but with all the expensive components removed (battery, hard drive) and with an ethernet chip added. The Neo has a dinky remote control as well.

If you check out Slim Device's photos page, you can see just how 'garage' the company has been. It's pretty cool how they take you through the whole production process - almost makes me want to buy one just for that.

Re:sliMP3 has slimming effect on wallet?

[Anonymous Coward]

unless i'm missing something, the Neo Jukebox has no ethernet, which makes it a completely different beast than the SliMP3.

Re:sliMP3 has slimming effect on wallet?

[JohnPM]

Yes that's what I'm saying. You take a Neo, remove the expensive bits and add an ethernet chip. I'm not saying anyone would want to do this, I'm just comparing the components you have in the different products.

Re:sliMP3 has slimming effect on wallet?

[seanadams.com]

The point is that you just know devices like this sliMP3 could be sold profitably for less than $50 if the volume was high enough.

Any gadget can be sold for under $50 with enough volume - do you want your SliMP3 now, or five years from now?

Anyway, if you can tell me where to buy just the displays for less than $50, I am all ears!
It's simple. SliMP3 is the same price as it's competitors, but you get a better display, better remote, better software, and a smaller device.

law enforcement

[Anonymous Coward]

...I guess they must have picked up all of those terrorists as well since they have time to waste on trivial things...

Uh, no

[autopr0n]

The slim devices thing uses ethernet. It dosn't need line of sight.

And I would absolutly buy a more expensive product rather then subsidize more pup-up garbage a and the SPAM that they're sending now.

Chinese currency

[autopr0n]

100(insert english version of the chinese currency)

100 Yuan.

Re:Chinese currency

[Anonymous Coward]

ReMinBi , Yuan is the generic term for dollar.

SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[Phrogz]

For over 1.5 years I've been wanting (and attempting to convince friends and others to make) a device almost like this. Here's my instant money-making idea for anyone who wants it, IF ONLY THEY'LL MAKE THE DEVICES AND SELL THEM TO ME!

Really, I'm rather desperate. Here are the specs:

Source/Receiver

4 RCA (stereo in/out)

1 RJ-45

1 ID selector (set unit's ID to 1-8) on back

1 Source selector on front (choose to listen from any unit

Uses 10BT chip and 2 $2 TI A/D chip to convert sound to/from PCM on the network

Cost: $US150
Receiver Unit

2 RCA (stereo in)

1 RJ-45

1 Source selector on front choose to listen from any unit

Cost: $US100
Computer Software

Encodes/decodes broadcast signal from the LAN, to let your computer be a source or receiver unit.

Cost: $US50

What I want is many-to-many sound setup in the house. Let the computer be playing MP3s and tune into it on the stereo. Let the A/V system be attached as a source so I can have any/all of the computers tuned in, re-broadcasting the sound around the house for parties. Cheap(~) receiving units can be placed in various locations (outside) with cat5 run to them.

Later improvements would include using software to set a friendly name for each source, a small cheap display to show the source names on the screen, and real-time MP3 encoding/decoding.

But at a minimum I just want a small hardware device which I can feed an RCA signal and have it use my existing ethernet infrastructure to broadcast that signal around the house! Anyone? Anyone?

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[Empty Threats]

First, almost by definition, you can't have "cheap" receiving units... they would be 'receivers' i.e. amplifiers. They start at about eighty bucks. Second, if you got the part numbers from radio shack, you could order enough connectors at a decent price to make any MP3 player or stereo feed through your ethernet wires with home-made adaptors. Wouldn't even bet that hard to feed into the line-in on the computer. I don't think impedance is as important for stereo wire as speaker wire, but a resistor in parallel would fix that anyway. Anyhow, it's a lot cheaper than bizarre specialized devices.

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[Corgha]

* 1 ID selector (set unit's ID to 1-8) on back

What is this, 1982? I'm not sure what you intend this ID for (the source selector, I presume), but is there some reason you think the ID should be limited to 3 bits?

Unless you've got some SCSI-like data bus that's allocating a wire for each address bit (sounds like you're using ethernet instead), there's no reason not to give each unit a unique ID (e.g. MAC address or IP address obtained via DHCP) and let the units select other units they can see on the network (with those on the same segment auto-detected by sending out broadcast packets). Then you just need up/down buttons on the front to select from a much-less-limited number of sources (though nicer versions might have better controls). Plus, you just saved yourself the cost of an ID selector on the back.

* Uses 10BT chip and 2 $2 TI A/D chip to convert sound to/from PCM on the network

I think a 100Mbps chip (e.g. tulip) should be cheap enough nowadays that you shouldn't feel bad putting one in there.

Since it (in itself at least) adds nothing to the incremental cost of the units, you might as well run Linux on the darn thing, and then you can be cool and send the music with IP multicast (so it can be routed to other networks).
Mmmmm.... multicast.

Instead of trying to develop your own protocol for sending the music around, you could use icecast (though I'm not sure if it supports multicast or what formats of audio it can stream if you're set on PCM).

Of course, I'm no audio expert, so perhaps there are some sound-quality conerns that I've missed.

* Cost: $US150

You do realize that for *much* less than that amount of money you could buy a used low-end pentium, a sound card, and a network card, and put something like this together yourself? Of course, then it would be not-so-small, and you wouldn't have a keypad and display on the front, but it's better than nothing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but somebody has to have done something like this already. I'd hack one up for you, but I really don't have the time.

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[Anonymous Coward]

'd hack one up for you, but I really don't have the time.

I have found a truly marvelous proof of this theorem but this margin is too narrow to contain it.

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[cmj]

Well... how about this idea:

• Some handy dandy MP3 playing software in the PC
• N sound cards in the PC
• Each sound card connected to an FM transmitter tuned to a different frequency
• buy a few relatively cheap "boom boxes" and set them up wherever

Shop.yahoo.com turned up a few transmitters under $20. Cheap sound cards (don't really need all that high quality to support this) can be had for under $30.

Total cost: <$50 per "channel" for transmission and as little or as much as you want per receiver.

Granted for an audiophile this isn't going to be ideal, but it will work and meets your requirements... well except for the ethernet part, but I've always prefered wireless to wired anyway!

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[Fat Cow]

well, it's not ethernet, but you can transmit RCA signals over CAT5 wire using a balun for about $30.

switching is a bigger problem, though. i'm trying to figure out how to do this at the moment. it probably comes down to building your own.

Re:SliMP3 is *almost* right.

[screwtheNSA]

Simple selection here....BLUETOOTH, 802.11a,b.. Set your "master" on the PC you'll configure as same, run your outboard devices as slaves to the "hub" in your mini-net. Easily configured to add additional "slaves" to the WAN/LAN configuration, and when they talk to each other in step, you'll hear what you want in the room you want as well; almost TDMAish...

Re:Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machin

[TheAwfulTruth]

Get the $199 Xtacy Everything (ti-200+TV in/out/pvr) and free up that TV wonder slot! :) But then what do you do about USB2 :(

RE: your sig

[Platypii]

Though I agree that it's obscene how our "representatives" are exploiting the deaths of thousands to increase their own power. What i disagree with is the gun control issue.... the terroists didn't use a single gun in the execution of their plan, so it really does show that banning guns won't stop things of that nature. And if anyone else on those planes had been armed, the terrorists would never have succeeded (think pilots..)

Though I realize i'm probably preaching to the choir in your case.....

Re:Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machin

[pythas]

Buy a better motherboard.

Re:Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machin

[Bitmanhome]

For some reason, I wanna come up with a suitably smart-ass answer to cut you down to size, but I can't -- it look like you got a really sweet system for doing some heavy video processing on a budget. My suggestions are below, but they can't match an OEM Audigy, which pricewatch says is $55.

c: If you have an ISA slot, put in an Awe 64 and a PCI firewire card.
d: Get a Radeon 8500DV, which replaces the Xpert, the TV Wonder, AND firewire.
e: Get a real motherboard, with 6 PCI and on-board ether.

And Win2k kicks boot, no flames are warranted.

-B

Cool Audigy option

[John Whitley]

The Audigy has a useful optional package (sitting right here on my desk at work): the Platinum EX. It's similar to the various Live! Drive modules, except this one is external (hence the EX), and extends all of the normal Live!Drive jacks plus firewire to your desktop. Oh, and it's black, not asthetic-nightmre beige. 8-)

mysql.org has been linking there...

[Exantrius]

for at least the last 4ish months-- I started teaching myself mysql late in the summer, and it was there then...
/ex

Ford's PCs

[dherman]

Ford leases all PCs from Dell (3 yr Leases)
So, when the lease is up, the PC goes back.

The same applies with Unix Workstations (HP, SGI, SUN) (3 Yr Lease)

Mainframes, Supercomputers (Crays, etc...) (Variable Leases)

So, there are no presents to the employees.

But....

We do get great deals on Cars, Trucks, Cell Phones, Microsoft Products, etc...

Re:Ford's PCs

[Elvis Maximus]

My company leases PCs from Dell also. When the lease is up, they have the option of buying the PCs at $1 each.

Re:Ford's PCs

[spoonyfork]

After what some of the users here put their workstations through, I think a dollar is too expensive.

I have a sliMP3 and it ROCKS!!

[FatAssBastard]

Best purchase I ever made. I took some close-ups of it, which can be found here.

Picking fights that are never won

[argoff]

It seems like law enforcemnet has a bad habit of picking fights that they can never win. The war on drugs is a great example, prohibition was another.

However, like most federal overeach, there is also beneficial side effects (to them). For example, the war on drugs helps the govt collect trillions in taxes that it would not have otherwise. Not from drug lords, but from legit busisnessmen who are fear mongered into not using the same tax protections associated with drug lords.

There is likely a similar agenda with copyright enforcement. It likely has little to do with copyrights, but the fact that the same methods used for copyright enforcement can also sacre legit businessmen from peer to peer technologies.

Re:Picking fights that are never won

[Mignon]

It seems like law enforcemnet has a bad habit of picking fights that they can never win.

Good point - that's a great way to stay well funded. You just have to maintain the belief that you're getting somewhere, so you periodically display large amounts of intercepted drugs/money/weapons, and keep convincing people that you're fighting against something that's bad, so you pressure Hollywood and TV producers to de-glamorize drug use.

We jam econo at Catseye Labs...

[MsGeek]

For some reason, I wanna come up with a suitably smart-ass answer to cut you down to size, but I can't -- it look like you got a really sweet system for doing some heavy video processing on a budget.

Budget is the key word here. This all started with a $30 motherboard I found at Overstock.Com. Most of the parts will come from my parts pile, and a good friend dropped an InWin mid-tower case with a Powerman/Sparkle 300W power supply on me, saying "happy holidays."

And much of the parts will come from a machine I rescued from a Doomed Dot Com. For details on that little adventure, follow this link: http://www.lowendpc.com/msgeek/2001/1030.html. I found the ultra-econo motherboard just after I wrote this article.

And what will be the original machine's fate? It will be a file and backup server for my home network. Running Linux. Yeah I had problems installing Mandrake but installing Debian or Red Hat on a machine that probably will never run XFree86 is not a problem.

That Radeon is tempting but very, very pricey. Also the TV Wonder is already in my parts pile.

Thanks for the ideas.

Re:We jam econo at Catseye Labs...

[MsGeek]

Yeah, replying to my own message...just checked Pricewatch and that Radeon only comes in an AGP flavor. No PCI. Oh well. And it's $300+. Kind of out of the ol' price range...

Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[MsGeek]

...lower the price of software to something other than stratospheric levels. Notice that the biggest guns in the BSA are the same software companies that charge extortionate prices for their software...Microsoft? Adobe? Macromedia? Start charging fair prices for software and piracy will dry up. Big time.

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[rho]

...and a fair price to you means... what? $100? $50? $1?

It's not the price of the software that causes these guys to make illegal copies. I doubt any of them even run the software they have.

Don't misunderstand--the Feds knocking down these guys doors, while not neccessarily wrong, is, however, a bit of a red herring. These guys don't represent a lost sale--they'll *never* buy a copy of Maya, or Director, or any such thing.

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[AvatarADVathome]

Yeah, but they're not -stashing- warez... it's not like they're sucking all of these things onto a hard drive and hiding it in the basement. They're running warez distribution (and, at that, largely anonymous distribution... if Bill Gates went home and logged in to IRC, I'm sure that he could find hundreds if not thousands of places where he could grab his own software.) "I'm too poor to ever buy this software" is an argument for use in defending yourself for the copy you have made for yourself, however specious. It is not, however, an argument that even applies to you making copies for other people!

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[ethereal]

Except I thought I heard all the warez folks saying they just collected, cracked, and traded it for fun, like baseball cards or something. How does making it cheaper really affect that?

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG!!

People who were caught were running private ftp sites, not public as you say, actually, the only way you could get in was if you were invited, and then your username was bound to your ident and iprange which could not be more than few ips (sucks to be dialup user, use a proxy).

They were not running the sites for profit, they did not sell accounts to these servers.

They were cracking software themselves, and most often their cracked programs trickled down to fserves.

Tell me how many public servers do you see that run on a mere oc1? And some of these topsites were connected at oc3 or more, and utilized as much. How many servers on irc do you see that have over 1tb of file space?

so yes, they did run a distribution type of a thing, but it was private and only other hobbysts could access.

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[gpinzone]

...and a fair price to you means... what? $100? $50? $1?

It's not the price of the software that causes these guys to make illegal copies. I doubt any of them even run the software they have.

That's true. These guys view pirating as a "sport." Their goal is to distribute as much "warez" without any consideration of what it is they are couriering.

To get back to the "fair price" issue. I think you will find that software prices are a lot like VHS/DVD prices. They are extremely elastic. If a movie is priced at $10 instead of $20, a hell of a lot more than 2x the people will buy it. If XP was only $25 instead of $200, millions more people would not want to bother with the hassle of pirating a copy and just buy the store bought version with all the manuals and junk that go along with it. Of course this will never happen. Why should it? Microsoft is attacking piracy from three fronts: 1) activation codes like in XP, 2) Pressure on the government to raid pirates, and 3) Adding copy protection in the hardware and making it the defacto standard (i.e., X-Box).

Re:Simple solution to the Warez problem:

[mikethegeek]

"..lower the price of software to something other than stratospheric levels. Notice that the biggest guns in the BSA are the same software companies that charge extortionate prices for their software...Microsoft? Adobe? Macromedia? Start charging fair prices for software and piracy will dry up. Big time."

This is why unauthorized copying (I refuse to use the word "piracy" as copying software has NO moral equivalence to hijacking ships) MUST exist!

I don't advocate stealing software, but it serves a purpose... So long as it exists, there is incentive for software companies to keep prices reasonable, especially Microsoft. In the desktop world, copied versions of Microsoft OS's are the ONLY check on the power of the MS monopoly (since the government won't do it).

The best copy protection isn't useless schemes and DMCA laws, but is reasonable prices. Selling Windows bug fixes for $100+ and calling them "upgrades" is extortion. Win `98 was nothing more than a fixed `95+IE that should have been distributed for FREE or at cost to people who paid full price for `95.

Audigy sucks, stick with Live!

[Anonymous Coward]

End of story.

Audigy features

[UnkyHerb]

No, the cool part is ASIO compadibility and 2ms latency. This card is more designed for music creation (cubase etc) than just home end game sound. Before no soundblaster cards were supported in Cubase for lack of ASIO compadibility. The live had some shitty half assed drivers I believe though.

Yet again with NYT...

[thesolo]

Go to either of these sites to bypass the reg screen:

http://college.nytimes.com/2001/12/19/technology/1 9PIRA.html

http://archives.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http:// www.nytimes.com/2001/12/19/technology/19PIRA.html

Re:Yet again with NYT...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't that count as a violation of the DCMA?

operation buccaneer article

[Anonymous Coward]

Check this out: http://www.icrontic.com/index.php?page=public/arti cles&articleId=123

This is truly frightening

[djcdplaya]

It really bothers me when the law enforcement arm of any level of a government organization sides with the corporations rather than the people that they are supposed to serve. Most people sit back and think, wow, i'm glad I don't use warez, but at the end of the NY Times college article, the US Customs Dept. mentions that these raids will "pay dividends for months to come." Years to come. Remember that copy of photoshop your art major friend got from you a few years ago? Ready to pay adobe for that. What about that windows/office cd you copied from your uncle just to figure out how it worked because that's what everyone else in your class/office/whatever was using back in 96. Do you really think Micro$haft doesn't want to bust you for that one.

Lot's of people are saying how great this is for open source, and sure, it might help. But how many people will just shell out the $200 for Winblows or $650 for Photoshop? How long till any free *nix is labeled a hacker tool(what do you mean you dont use windows!).

All this reminds me of the poem by the German during World War 2 that mentioned he never stood up for anyone because he wasn't one of them, but when the Nazis showed up for him, there was no one left to stand up for him.

None but ourselves can free our minds

Re:This is truly frightening

[dstone]

It really bothers me when the law enforcement arm of any level of a government organization sides with the corporations rather than the people that they are supposed to serve.

When citizens that a government serves create a corporation or purchase shares in a corporation, those citizens now have vital interests in that corporation. Citizens have billions of dollars of interests in these corporations you speak of. We're talking about moms and dads and grandparents with money in GICs, mutual funds, commercial bonds, stocks, etc. You may not like certain choices of investment or interests (eg. Microsoft, Ford, etc.), but ultimately, we're talking about serving citizens here.

Re:This is truly frightening

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, corporations are supposed to serve "the shareholders", but some shareholders are more equal than others.

Unless you own direct shares (and enough of them), good luck trying a proxy fight to change something about the company that the Board and management don't want to do.

Mutual fund shares do not get you anything.

Face it. Whether in our democratically-styled government, corporate welfare state, or whatever, most of us are only along for the ride. It used to be that real people were directly in control of the controls, but now there is this layer of abstraction called The Corporation between any person who might have been in control in the past and the machine. How much control does Michael Eisner really have over Disney? What if Sr. Eisner came up with a brilliant plan to sell off Mickey Mouse for $1,000,000,000 in cash and other securable assets? Would Roy Disney, Jr. let that happen? No, even if the rest of the shareholders "wanted" it, also.

Or look at Enron (so is Enron really different, other than scale, than what Orange County, CA did in the 80's?), Lucent, et al.

Re:This is truly frightening

[Tricot]

All this reminds me of the poem by the German during World War 2 that mentioned he never stood up for anyone because he wasn't one of them, but when the Nazis showed up for him, there was no one left to stand up for him. I'm surprised it took this long before someone proved Godwin's Law.

While I've got a fair number of qualms with IP laws,and how they're implemented in the US (and soon everywhere else thanks to WIPO). I can't really rationalize what these kids did, and comparing this crackdown to anything the Nazi's did seems bizzare and freekish.

-- Mitch

Re:This is truly frightening

[dstone]

but some shareholders are more equal than others

Naturally. Some shareholders hold more shares than others. Other shareholders are founders or directors and have correspondingly deeper roles. When I start a company and still own most of the shares a few years later, I continue to have a vital interest in seeing that company do well. I know this is not The Socialist Way, but if I did not have that incentive to start with, I probably wouldn't bother starting a company. It would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if all shareholders were "equal", as you say. Just keep that idea away from any companies that I own shares in! (Or let me cash out and start shorting the stock now!)

Mutual fund shares do not get you anything

You get what you pay for. If you want direct shares and the associated ups and downs and daily or hourly decisions associated with managing an equity invesment and trying to turn yourself a profit, then you buy Real Shares. If you want a fund manager to make the buy and sell decisions for you and would like to reduce both your upside and downside then you buy units of mutual funds. Mutual funds get you exactly what you buy them for. No, you don't get rights to vote at shareholder meetings -- you've chosen to give your rights to the fund managers. However, you're still extremely interested in seeing the corporations that your fund invests in do well. Thus, my point is still that all the citizens out there with stocks, mutual funds, GICs, and anything else tied to corporations are all interested in seeing those corporations profit. It should be no surprise that we elect governments that try to help corporations thrive. It's a vital interest to most of us. Unless you live on a subsistence farm and keep your cash buried in a jar in the back yard.

idiot

[autopr0n]

There is a difference between 'getting in trouble' and 'committing a felony'

Why don't you look up the law and see for yourself. Show me where it says possession of copyrighted material is a felony

China's neighbors

[BlueboyX]

I dont know if it also applies to software (it probably does) but in smaller Asian countries like Korea it is impossible to get official copies of music cds and movies. You can't find them for sale at all. However, you can find some very high quality bootlegs for pretty cheap. I tend to call them 'official bootlegs' because they are as close to the real thing that you can actually get.

Re: Prohibition under our system?

[qubezz]

No, it would be more like - you would have only your choice of Budweiser or Bud Light at the Anheiser-Busch monopoly-owned liquor stores, they would buy out any other competing company and substitute Bud for the previous maker's brew, and making your own alcohol would be a crime.
(so would be trying to figure out the ingredients). By the way, 'beer' is their trademark.

Thank god here in Oregon its only as bad as the state running all the liquor stores, setting the prices statewide, and you can't buy liquor anywhere else... (slashcode strips sarcasm markup code)

SliMP3 and FCC testing?

[Cryptnotic]

Somehow I doubt that this half-enclosure that they're using is going to allow them to pass FCC testing.

Although, it does look very cool.

Cryptnotic

Re:SliMP3 and FCC testing?

[dstone]

I'm curious... when is it necessary for a limited-production commercial product to be FCC-certified? Would this also apply in Canada?

The movies do not have free software replacements

[Bob_Robertson]

Why steal photoshop when the Gimp exists?

Thank you.

[Bob_Robertson]

You to me a service by your eloquence. Yes, that was the point I was trying to make.

Bob-

youngster

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you weren't alive in the 70's when a pound of pot had a "street value" of 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars......

The more things change, and all that.

government "representation"

[Bob_Robertson]

First, no one I've ever voted for has won their election. That means I am taxed without representation.

My so-called "representitives" at the Federal level consist of Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinswine, and some party hack I can't even remember the name of. Oh, and "I never saw a power I didn't like" Bush, of course.

If you can tell me how any one of those will be swayed in the slightest by yet another heart felt, sincere letter opposing practically everything they have ever done, I would love to know how.

What I receive back are form letters that have nothing to do with the issues I addressed.

Please, refute me. Tell me how you convinced your "elected representitives" to change their actions. I'm really, really interested.

Bob-

Re:government "representation"

[BEHiker57W]

First, no one I've ever voted for has won their election. That means I am taxed without representation.

My so-called "representitives" at the Federal level consist of Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinswine, and some party hack I can't even remember the name of.

If you don't even know your federal rep's name, you are certainly part of the problem.

You can change how elected representatives act. I have sucessfully obtained votes and sponsorship for measures I favor using some of these methods.

• Sending money. Congressmen love money.
• Calling offices or sending hand written letters and persuading a few dozen friends to write also.
• Visiting home or D.C. offices with a dozen advocates also supporing your opinion. (Call in advance and you'll talk directly to the congressman if you have two or more advocates.)

Re:government "representation"

[Bob_Robertson]

Yeah. Advocate the right of self defense to Feinswine in person? That would be interesting.

My being "part of the problem" is ignorance on your part. I didn't vote for them, I really don't care what their name is, and it wasn't worth the effort to look up for a slashdot message.

However, you do point out the one true and long-perfected way to actually get a politician to support your cause, whatever that may be:

Buy them.

Bob-

Re:government "representation"

[uslinux.net]

First, no one I've ever voted for has won their election. That means I am taxed without representation.

No, unless you live in Washington, D.C., where you are taxed by do not get a vote on congressional matter, you are represented. Just because the guy you voted for didn't win doesn't mean you don't have representation in Congress - you *have* a representative there, he or she just may not be representing you as you see fit. But then, that's what representation is all about - Congressional leaders *supposedly* making choices based on their electorate, and not on their own personal views. Sorry. Democracy isn't perfect, but it's the best we've found so far.

BTW, no one I've voted for in the last 3 years (save for the recent state gubernatorial election) has won either, but that's unfortunately the way it works.

Re:government "representation"

[Mytzle]

It's a Democratic Republic. No one has the balls to deal with a true democracy.

Ford computers

[vanguard]

I sure hope that Ford (like many large companies) at the very least gives Ford employees dibs on any computers that are being replaced within the company to make up for each new round of Windows.

If Ford is like any other large company they probably lease their computers. The reason for leasing is that under IRS tax laws computers must be written off over 5 years. That means that the tax deduction is 1/5 of the price of the computer per year * their tax rate. In real life, computers are not usually kept this long.

By leasing, they are able to more closely match the cost of the machine to this time it is used (and get the bulk of the tax deduction sooner).

Because of this standard practice, I doubt that Ford will be able to give their end of life machines to their employees.

Affordable Audigy

[Anonymous Coward]

Googlegear has an Audigy for $63.50. Sure it's OEM and all you get is the card and a CD, but at least you can save some money. You may want to check your favorite shopping site to see if they have a batter deal on an OEM version.

Re:Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machin

[Anonymous Coward]

Xtacy Everything? Guessing that is a vid card. Who makes it?

Reruns...

[mcneight]

I don't know where Mr. GeekLife.com has been hiding, but Ford cancelling the "Model E" program is such old news that /. covered it over two months ago!

I'm starting to think that maybe VA <buzzword> sold /. to TVLand...

Re:I can't believe The Bullshit arguments

[Grog6]

Lets see...
Masturbation is wrong, but it's OK for the Catholic Church to cover up all the Priests having sex with little boys....
And, It's OK to help the Nazi's, because we're not Jewish...
And Warez is bad because multimillion dollar companies who can spend millions on prosecuting their potential customers are losing a few bucks...
Man, a sense of proportion is sadly missing these days.
Hell, our govenor is holding our state parks hostage in response to not getting an income tax.... Talk about fucked!

Ford Model E program

[MrRee]

I'm a sys admin at one of the Ford plants in the US. A few notes on the Model E program.

The computers that the Model E program provided were crap--scraps from a botched deal with HP for company machines. Most people I've talked to in my domain wished they hadn't heard of the Model E program.

As far as giving company computers to employees as those computers are phased out, all Ford company computers are leased from Dell.

um, cool sounding?

[spectatorion]

cool sounding? i originally thought it was pronouced "aww-diggy" which sounds pretty lame to me. oh well. enjoy, i guess.

Re:Audigy vs. Santa Cruz on an i810 chipset machin

[Lumpy]

One important thing to look at is did Creative fix the problems they introduced in the Live and did they migrate to the Audigy line? Many people have had trouble with the Live series causing lock-ups and other pci mayhem because it is not pci compliant and put's niose on the pci bus.

Does the audigy solve this? creative won't admit the live problem, so asking them wont help.

Don't have to go all the way to China

[davidhan]

to find bootlegs. If you're in the US, I've seen Adobe Photoshop and other bootlegs being sold on sidewalks in Manhattan.

Anyway, I'd say the lack of the rule of law in China is a bad thing, regardless of whether Microsoft 'deserves it.' I'd rather the government protect the civil rights of people there, even if it means some software costs more.

Re:Don't have to go all the way to China

[Rogue Jedi]

Since when did copyright become a civil right?

-Rob

IEEE1394, SB1394, Firewire, iLink, etc on Audigy

[CoffeeJedi]

I know that Apple has trademarks to the name Firewire, and Sony owns iLink, and they're both IEEE1394 (although Sony's spec isn' fully implemented, small connectors only, so no power on the bus), but SoundBlaster is calling the port an "SB1394" port. Does this mean that its not a true Firewire implementation? Can I plug any 1394 device into it, or only high-end audio equipment?

It isn't about stopping warez...

[kesuki]

The point of the busts on December 11 is to put case law on the books. Who is going to defend a bunch of criminals, after all? The point of the bust is to prove that the DMCA and the new powers granted to the FBI are 'legal.' Once that is done they can go after people who you probably wouldn't think of as criminals. Such as open source programmers trying to make DVD player software for linux.

By the way, don't think that even one of these warez people is going to get away without any jail time. If every piece of evidence collected by the FBI were ruled to be obtained illegally, there are dozens of civil court lawsuits that could be brought for billions of dollars against them. Civil court doesn't require the same standards on evidence, but if you can't pay a billion dollar fine you're going to spend time in jail anyways.
The difference is that if the FBI wins these people will get life in Federal 'pound you up the ass' prison. The FBI will also have an unholy amount of power to wiretap etc. If the FBI loses then the warez people will get into the local prison system, probably because their lawyer managed to defend them from an outrageous fine that noone could ever hope to pay. As a side benefit everyone will have more freedom if the FBI looses.
One final thing 'Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.' The powers granted to the FBI effectively take that away. They can treat you as guilty without needing a court of law to intervene.

sliMP3 typos

[ChrisCampbell47]

I realize this will be modded down, but hopefully the sliMP3 guy(s) will eventually get around to reading all these comments, even the modded-down ones (I would if it were my product getting posted on Slashdot). I'm sure if I send this by email today it will get ignored (Slashdot email interest effect).

Looks like they have Slashdot Spelling and Grammar Dysfunction:

• do a spell check (avialable, definately, etc.) Doctor HTML does spell checks of web pages.
• it's = "it is", as in "it is time that my grammar evolved beyond that of a teenager".
• its = possessive, as in "the sliMP3 uses a flouroluminescent panel as its display".
• let's = let us, as in "let's improve our writing".
• lets = form of the verb "to let", as in "keeping 802.11 out of the package lets me keep the price below $300".
• "We have done this", "I plan to do that", which is it, "we" or "I"? Have a consistent voice. Look for other forms, too (my, mine, me, our, ours, us).

I'm not trying to be snotty -- I'm trying to help you write better and thus get your message across. These kinds of errors distract your more erudite readers from the content of the page.

The first step to fixing a problem is knowing you've got one.

Re:sliMP3 typos

[seanadams.com]

Thanks. It's not that I can't spell. Sometimes, I just try to put it in words faster thjan I csn ty[e.

I'll give the site a good proofreading.

copyright violator!

[Eugene O'Neil]

This verbatim copy of a legally protected work is a clear violation of copyright law. You are stealing the potential revenue of Ed Post, the legal copyright holder. If he wanted to charge a million dollars to read this copyrighted text, then you have cost him a million dollars for every single slashdot reader who read it here for free. Thus, you have stolen thousands of millions of dollars from Ed Post, and should be punished accordingly!

Now some people might argue that no slashdot reader would pay even a single dollar to read this twenty-year-old letter to the editor of a defunct industry rag, much less a million dollars, and would simply choose not to read it if they could not do it for free. To these people I reply: STEALING IS BAD! STEALING IS WRONG! STEALING IS ILLEGAL! YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!

I hope I have made my point.

Who cares with the NYT?!!!!!!!!

[tommut]

wtf?! Why does everyone make this a big deal about this everytime? With the "(free reg req, blah, etc)" noted in the submissions each single damn time. It's the NYT's fucking site, you don't have to constantly bitch about them because of the fact that they make you register. You don't like it, it's unneccessary, it shouldn't be done... Alright, we get it, okay, move on with your life. I find that more annoying than the blatant MS bashing. At least just make a NYT-Borg icon to express your displeasure, so I don't have to read the "free-reg" shit everytime.

Sheesh. Or just take 3 seconds and use the u/pw: slash2001, and you won't have to worry about it ever again.

Re:Who cares with the NYT?!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Make an account or not, people behind Junkbuster proxies STILL can NOT access NYT.

The links thesolo provided are VERY appreciated!

is it ok to pirate some games

[kel-tor]

Last time I remember seeing the logic for why video games aren't sold cheaper was in the 80s. It was one of those software orgs and they were going on that a 10$ piece of software is sold for $50 because they know they are going to loose so much revenue to piracy. My friends and I all agreed that that was resonable enough logic for us, and we'd buy about 1 game in 3 or 4, copy a few, and delete many cause most were crap. Thus we'd end up hopefully only spending $50 on games we actually liked.

I wonder if I have a point? If the pricing model is based on a certain amount of revenue lost to piracy, its a situation where even if they had zero percent lost to piracy, they would not rebate their registered customers. So, you have an obligation under the pricing model to only pay for some software? Take the moral high ground if you want, but software sales are not about morals, they're about profits, and if you are giving a corp it's expected profit then you are behaving correctly in a competetive environment. You can say stealing is always wrong, and i can say that unreasonable profits, cough riaa, are sin in the eyes of God.

I can't believe *your* arrogance

[Westacular]

And as for the star trek replicator paragraph, if something like that were to come out it would have a huge impact on society, and probably result in a major change in property laws, including these copyright and patent ideas. After all, without scarcity, modern economics is pretty much lost.

See, there's these things called computers, and that's exactly what they do for information. Whereas the replication of information used to be limited by the rate at which which could produce "containers" for that information, computers and the Internet they form have enabled us to reproduce any piece of information in existence with the push of a button or two. And they have had a huge impact on society. The problem is, they haven't (yet) resulted in a major change to "intellectual property" laws.

Oh, sure, you can point to things like the DMCA, but those don't actually represent a major change: rather, these new laws are simply the existing laws pushed to a ridiculous extreme, trying to mask the real issue but instead pointing out the folly of the original laws on which they're based.

Two hundred years ago, (smart) people knew that "Intellectual" property wasn't actually property, but book publishers and inventors were whining so they cautiously enacted some legal protections for they works. There's lots of good quotes, and writing, from that time indicating that various statesmen knew that this was a slippery, snow-covered slope down which they were beginning to roll a snowball... Two hundred years later, that snowball is now city-sized and rolling around trying to crush people, apparently ignorant that it's no longer winter and the temperature is a balmy 80 degrees.

Active Copyright infringers -- your "pirates" -- feel justified because morality has changed with times and the laws need to catch up. Anything that helps bring this issue to a point is once step closer to a proper resolution, which would be a new economic model to reward/reimburse creative individuals for their efforts.

And please, don't fall into the blind belief that without big guarantees of making money nothing would get done. I'd much rather use/experience something that was made by someone who enjoyed making it that by someone who did it because he thought there was money to be made.

Re:I can't believe *your* arrogance

[screwtheNSA]

Software is worse than any product or service currently available; it's effectively siezed the public, enslaved ideas and corrupted a law that is "supposed" to allow for "creativity", which now, it does neither, but holds inviolate, the coveted works of a few so extreme profit be maintained for those few forever, without thinking that yet more laws are needed to preserve the works of those not being published. Think of how poor the economy would be right now, if everything was done with licenses. Contract ABC construction for a design, but before it makes paper, you "must" sign a license(EULA) for it to be started, then the terms of the license are then revealed to you; containing times of use, limited use, and also the ownership of that design...getting pretty wild now huh? Software sales have pushed legitimacy to its farthest reaches of absurdity, making everybody a slave to it, in fact, ORDERING me to create a living for the company that wrote it. Insurance companies are just as bad, laws forcing me to make a company a living is WRONG too, but YOU pay, don'tr you, BECAUSE the "law" makes you do it! Screw the "law" then..it's IMMORAL to force me to pay any company so they can make a living, then PAY ME to read this then...SAME DEAL, all work is, in effect, a copyrightable work, which we all own individually and have the "right" to make another pay "us" to make use of it, no matter how or when or why it is used; this is still MY work, is it not? Why should I be allowed to force you to make a living for me then? Is THAT right as well? To the software folks, that analogy is correct. NOBODY OWES anybody a living!

Intellectual property != physical property!

[Nonesuch]

For most 'pirates' their is a huge moral difference between selling software for a profit (commercial piracy) and providing copies of software and music to other 'fans' for free or in trade for more software.

Generally, giving away a copy of a commercial product is ethically acceptable, selling compilation disks or download access for a small fee (to cover media or bandwidth costs) is a grey area, and producing 'counterfeit' software that looks like the real thing is seen as the only aspect of piracy that is truly 'wrong'.

The difference in most people's minds is that it is okay to make copies when you would never have paid for a legitimate version. The real criminals are the ones who sell counterfeit copies, where the buyer is somebody who would have purchase the real thing, and might actually have been duped into thinking they were buying a legitimate product.

Just because something is not physical does not mean that it is without value.

The difference is, if I take your spear, you starve to death, because you lose the use of your 'real property'.

If I make my own copy using my own materials (flint, rawhide, wood), you still have your spear.

If you sell spears for an arm and a leg (literally) and I would/could never pay your price, how are you being hurt when I make my own copy of your product instead of buying it?

While I agree that copyright and patent laws could use some modification, now that information travels much faster than it used to, and the life of information is much shorter, I don't think they should be abolished. Few people are willing to work to create something if they know that they won't be compensated for their time. For some people, a sense of recognition is enough compensation.

There are ways to make money off of 'intellectual property' without draconian copyright enforcement. For example, there are bands who give away MP3s of their music, and make their real profits off of the concerts.

Re:Intellectual property != physical property!

[.sig]

"huge moral difference between selling software for a profit (commercial piracy) and providing copies of software and music to other 'fans' for free or in trade for more software.

So you're saying the ends justify the means? If I steal your car and give it away to someone else, that's ok, but if I steal it and sell it then I'm wrong? It doesn't matter what you do with it, stealing is the crime.

It is okay to make copies when you would never have paid for a legitimate version

This is pure bullshit. If you're not willing or able to pay the set price for something, that does not make it ok to steal it. This is especially true for things you don't even need. I could understand a starving man stealing a loaf of bread, not this.

How are you being hurt when I make my own copy of your product instead of buying it?

Well, to be truley nitpicking, a spear is not complex enough to warrant a patent or copyright, but for something more complex that would actaully take a significant effort to create, the person who put in the time and effort to design it owns the rights to it. If you want one and can't afford it, design your own. If you need one and can't afford it, odds are the government will buy it for you.

There are ways to make money off of 'intellectual property' without draconian copyright enforcement. For example, there are bands who give away MP3s of their music, and make their real profits off of the concerts.

That's wonderful, but that doesn't mean everyone has to do that. That's where musicians are lucky. Few people would want to pay to watch a painter paint, and even fewer people would pay to watch a programmer write code.

Re: Prohibition under our system?

[Jburkholder]

>(slashcode strips sarcasm markup code)

<sarcasm>man, I hate when that happens</sarcasm>

:-)

Maybe the whole concept is flawed

[quantum bit]

And as for the star trek replicator paragraph, if something like that were to come out it would have a huge impact on society, and probably result in a major change in property laws, including these copyright and patent ideas. After all, without scarcity, modern economics is pretty much lost.

Which is exactly where you're missing the point. Digital content already exists in a world without scarcity, which is why trying to apply current economic laws to it is failing so miserably. The internet is the culmination of a revolution that began with the printing press. Media companies are trying to use copyright to enforce artificial scarcity because they know that their business model won't work anymore.

I think another good point to make is that many of those who don't believe in silly things like copyright are not communists or anarchists. In fact, many value their property rights very highly and will vehemently defend them. However, the distinction is that they believe that thoughts and ideas (read: content) are simply not things that can be owned.

I'm not defending warez kiddies, of course. They're definitely not on the moral high ground here :) But the whole idea of "Intellectual Property" is a contradiction in terms, and flawed at best.

Re:Maybe the whole concept is flawed

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I knew I was replying to a troll, but it still needed to be said.

And in other news...

[daft_one]

Slashdot's karma engineers have invented an entirely new form of mathematics, where: (-1) + 0 + (-1) +0 + 1 + 1 = -3 Oh... wait for it... I suspect that quantity plus (-1) will equal -6!

Selective quoting pisses me off.

[Nonesuch]

Your selective quoting pisses me off. What I said was this:

For most 'pirates' their is a huge moral difference between selling software for a profit (commercial piracy) and providing copies of software and music to other 'fans' for free or in trade for more software.

What you quoted was:

"huge moral difference between selling software for a profit (commercial piracy) and providing copies of software and music to other 'fans' for free or in trade for more software.

So you're saying the ends justify the means? If I steal your car and give it away to someone else, that's ok, but if I steal it and sell it then I'm wrong? It doesn't matter what you do with it, stealing is the crime.

It is okay to make copies when you would never have paid for a legitimate version

This is pure bullshit. If you're not willing or able to pay the set price for something, that does not make it ok to steal it. This is especially true for things you don't even need. I could understand a starving man stealing a loaf of bread, not this.

Your quoting makes it sounds like those are MY opinions, not the rationalizations of 'most pirates' that I myself was quoting...

Aside from your misleading quotes, your arguments are also bogus.

As I said before, 'intellectual property' cannot be equated with 'real property', because a person can infringe on your 'IP rights' without denying you the use of your property.

If you steal my car, I cannot drive it. If you make a copy of my operating system, your 'theft' in no way infringes on my use of my official version.

If you copy my operating system and give copies away to your poor welfare-collecting pirate friends, I still haven't suffered any tangible loss, other than a continuing infringement on my 'IP rights', and some nebulous concept of loss of control over the distribution of my product.

If you turn around and make 'counterfeit' copies that look like my official copies of my software, and sell it to people who think they are buying the real thing, you are depriving me of 'actual' revenue.

You're correct, that's the way the system is.

[Bob_Robertson]

However, there is a better system. It's called "Unanimity". There are various other words for it, such as "voluntary cooperation" and "individual responsibility".

Like "perfect communism", it may never be reached. Unlike "perfect communism", the method for bringing it about is not through greater and greater state control and power over everyones life.

It starts by the simple recognition that it is wrong to initiate force against other people. Think about that, and about how it is just as bad for 1 person to rob you as it is for 100 people to rob you even though they represent a "majority".

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. It's merely tyrany of the majority.

Bob-

Mod parent up

[Anonymous Coward]

Junkbuster users thank you, thesolo! :-)

(Well, the first one works here at least, though the second one does not.)

Microsoft Products?

[Anonymous Coward]

WHY Microsoft Products?

Re:The movies do not have free software replacemen

[Anonymous Coward]

You're obviously not a professional graphics artist if you seriously thing the Gimp is a suitable replacement for Photoshop. The Gimp is fantastic for web page graphics, but c'mon.