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Content Faction v. Tech Faction

An Anonymous reader writes: "This essay describes the current battle between two former allies in the DMCA fight - The Content Faction (Universal, MPAA, etc.) v The Tech Faction (IBM, Microsoft, etc.). It gives a great overview of what the battle is, who is taking what position, what's at stake - and how consumers are going to be taking it in the *** no matter who wins, it's just a matter of how rough it will be. "

235 comments

  1. An interesting business model.... by IIOIOOIOO · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "Hey recording industry! Seeing as we have captured one of the largest audiences currently trading illegal copies of your music, we somehow believe to have transformed ourselves into a valuable commodity. I mean, of course these guys all came to our service in order to get music for free, but I'm certain that if you pay us some money, instead of shutting us down, that the people will GLADLY pay money for the music they once got for free...."

    Next month I'm going to start a business to corner the market on killing people. I'm not sure how commercialize my business model, but I'm sure I can convince someone to pay me to stop.

    1. Re:An interesting business model.... by mummers · · Score: 1, Funny

      Sorry, this business model is already being trialed in Northern Ireland with mixed results.

      --
      --This isn't a man who is leaving with his head between his legs.
  2. Content Faction? by vjmurphy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Huh? The content feaction would be the artists who actually create the stuff. These companies are just the Distribution Faction.

    --
    Vincent J. Murphy
    Spandex Justice
    1. Re:Content Faction? by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

      That would make Nike a distribution and branding company, since the shoes are actually made by small independent contractors being paid poverty wages in Indonesia.

    2. Re:Content Faction? by cperciva · · Score: 1, Redundant

      That would make Nike a distribution and branding company

      Yes, it would. Sorry, what was your point again?

    3. Re:Content Faction? by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My point is that in economic and legal terms, to all useful extent and purposes, the recording industry owns that content. The recording artists are just factory workers, independent contractors whose labor has been paid for, and the goods handed over to their bosses. Granted, they get royalties and so forth, but the dispensation of their content is seldom under their control.

    4. Re:Content Faction? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 2

      To make a point of the obvious, making shoes isn't exactly art. These people didn't sign up for Nike because they figured that that was the best way to get their wonderful shoes to the world.
      It's not as simple as "Designer, Distributor"...in that case it's more like "Designer , Manufacturor, Distributor", and we all know where the factory workors sit.
      While the law may treat artists like slave labourers, they're still the Designers, and should have control over where every one of their designs goes.

    5. Re:Content Faction? by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While the law may treat artists like slave labourers, they're still the Designers, and should have control over where every one of their designs goes.

      Only until they sign a contract that says otherwise - and enough of them do, that the recording industry can call itself the content faction. Musicians aren't signing those contracts so that they can Share Their Music With The World, it's so that they can bring in the benjamins, just like everyone else. If they wanted to just share the music, they'd do just that.

      There is a habit to attribute some sort of inherent nobility to certain types of artistic production, but that habit isn't particularly justified.

    6. Re:Content Faction? by dillon_rinker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah, the eternal debate between craft and art...

      To counter your point, singing a song that someone else wrote while someone else performs the accompaniment and someone else alters your voice isn't art either.

    7. Re:Content Faction? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fair enough - but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule in the recording industry. And if it's your own arrangement then there's at least some artistic effort going into it. The point is that anyone can make a shoe according to specifications, only *one* person could ever have written, say, American Pie (the song, that is) in the way that we all know and love...

      And only one person could have written it in the fantastically horrible way that we all know and hate.

    8. Re:Content Faction? by jafac · · Score: 2

      Nike does the R&D and engineering of the shoes.

      Universal, Sony, and Virgin do not write and perform the songs (although they DO finance the engineering).

      However. It's been shown that most recording artists could probably do an acceptable job of studio engineering.
      That would be equivalent to the 8 year old indonesian kids designing shoes.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    9. Re:Content Faction? by Zordak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Fair enough - but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule in the recording industry.

      That's crap. How many big music "artists" write their own music, or even their own arrangements? In some of the genres with a niche appeal, the performers are the artists (for example, most hard rock/alternative bands write their own stuff), but the big money makers are the mainstream pop titles that are cranked out like so many shoes, and have about as much artistic value. This is your pop and country (which no longer sounds like real country music -- it's just slightly more twangy pop). Almost none of them write their own material. The tunes are manufactured to be non-descript because it makes it more broadly palatable, and they hardly bother re-arranging the words anymore. The people performing it are images put together by their respective labels to give a familiar face to the latest garbage. I am not even a songwriter, and I find it ludicrous that people like Brittney Spears and Faith Hill are referred to as "artists." They're salesmen, and what they sell is mediocre at best. That's not to say that there are no artists in the music industry. I think that there are a lot of artists with record contracts that have something to say, and they do write and perform their own stuff. But to call them the rule is like claiming that trading Inde music on Napster was the rule.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    10. Re:Content Faction? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd say that "real" artists are the rule, but they're never as popular as the manufactured salesmen that are Britney and Faith Hill, so they get drowned out. A point (no longer "the point" - that was lost a while ago :) is that the RIAA doesn't represent the creators of the vast amount of the content, just the creators of the teeny-bopper popular portion of it (ie, the RIAA themselves).

      The original parent post (way up there now) was about the "content faction" being more of the distribution faction, which is pretty much true. But I'd say a good compromise would be to call it the "consumed content faction". There's a whole lot of content out there - any band that's ever recorded an album in their basement - but the "consumed content" of Britney-and-co is more prevalent. The question is if we want the law to reflect the interests of the creators of the most-seen content (*AA) or the most creators of content (basement bands, etc).

    11. Re:Content Faction? by werepython · · Score: 1

      Sadly, most of the artists that create content lose all rights to their creations as a condition of distribution.

      Another point that this article misses, the Internet gives artists a way to distribute their creations WITHOUT giving up control to distributers. I'm sure that scares the CRAP out of the distributers!

    12. Re:Content Faction? by Zordak · · Score: 1

      Point granted. In terms of number of musicians, "real" artists are probably the rule. I was thinking in terms of dollars. As for the rest (i.e. the "on-topic" part) it's unfortunate, but chances are that the law will end up representing the interests of the creators of the most seen content, because the creators of the most content generally don't have the "resources" (I had a professor who was fond of saying that in America, we have the best politicians money can buy). It's truly unfortunate, because music is a medium in which a quality product can be produced without a lot of money, and RIAA would just love to make it illegal for anyone to produce music without their blessing.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
  3. This sumarizes the whole thing. by reaper20 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "If you think about it, the content industry does not want people to have computers; they're too powerful, too flexible, and too extensible. They want people to have Internet Entertainment Platforms: televisions, VCRs, game consoles, etc."

    I don't really know who to cheer for. The content guys are obviously stupid, but MS's tactics and IBMs tendency to forget what one hand is doing means Linux guys get stuck right in the middle. We can access content through 'uncoventional means', without the advertising channels and other marketing gizmos.

    You have IBM supporting linux on one hand, and its hard drive people pulling that digital management stuff for IDE drives.

    We need to tread lightly before we jump to conclusions...

    1. Re:This sumarizes the whole thing. by gentlewizard · · Score: 2

      Oddly enough, we have Bill Gates to thank for slowing down the march to "Entertainment Platforms". Oracle, Sun, etc. had been pushing thin clients for a long while, but Gates was making his money from Operating Systems which ran on full-featured PC's. So Microsoft was pushing the complete PC over dumb devices.

      Now with .Net, that incentive is no longer there, so I think the trend will accelerate.

    2. Re:This sumarizes the whole thing. by curunir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I don't really know who to cheer for..."

      Save your cheering for when there are actually two sides that are at odds with each other. This is really just a case of two extremely large entities getting together and discussing how they're going to screw the rest of us in order to maximize their profits (I guess they think that by calling it "collateral damage" we'll swallow it easier).

      To suggest that these factions are at odds is kinda funny. Why is the government basically giving up on their prosecution of Microsoft? Well, in large part due to the opinion (and campaign contributions) of the "Content Faction". The "Content Faction" may want to see DRM mandate laws in place, but they'll be happy to settle for a Microsoft DRM'd OS that is on 99% of all desktops.

      So save your cheering for when the real struggle starts. Once they figure out how they want to turn your computer into a DVD player that allows you limited email/web privileges, there's going to be a huge fight to get it implemented.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    3. Re:This sumarizes the whole thing. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      I don't know, people have been forecasting the rise of network-based computing for years, but people have overwhelmingly decided to keep their computers. They're flexible, powerful, and in the end cheap enough to continue using.

  4. damn right by MrFredBloggs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone bitches about how the record companies are slow to adapt new tech and use it for their own ends...where are the musicians using this stuff? Surely if they are so unhappy about distribution methods, they should get off their butts and do something about it?

    1. Re:damn right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Everyone bitches about how the record companies are slow to adapt new tech

      Well, duh, the record companies are pretty much dying off and being replaced by smarter companies who distribute content in more modern formats.

    2. Re:damn right by TTop · · Score: 3, Informative
    3. Re:damn right by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The musicians you've heard of are forbidden from using this 'new tech stuff' by their contracts with their record companies.

      The musicians you haven't heard of ARE using this new tech stuff. Go out and find them and support them.

    4. Re:damn right by MrFredBloggs · · Score: 1

      "the record companies are pretty much dying off"

      No, they are not.

    5. Re:damn right by Phil+Wilkins · · Score: 1

      Most musicians are just getting on with making music. Which, for most, is the reason they're in the business in the first place.

    6. Re:damn right by sien · · Score: 2

      They are. At least the smart ones are. Ani Difranco in particular. As well as being a very good songwriter she runs her own label.
      Rather than getting the small fraction of the price of a CD that most artists get she is getting a good share.
      It's a lot more than most other whinging artists get. Instead of whining ( ala Courtney Love ) she's gotten her act together and promoted herself through relentless touring and the quality of her music.
      Ani Difranco is the future of music. EMI and all the rest are bankruptcies waiting to happen.

    7. Re:damn right by ichimunki · · Score: 2

      What are you talking about? Metallica are just one of many bigtime bands that have sued their label at some point.

      --
      I do not have a signature
  5. So let's see... by MantridDronemaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So let's see they ram this HDTV stuff down our collective throats and now they are complaining about it?

    I don't think it's ever going to be possible to prevent copying anyways- that's not even legal under fair use! (as I understand it)

    1. Re:So let's see... by wheel · · Score: 5, Informative
      I don't think it's ever going to be possible to prevent copying anyways- that's not even legal under fair use! (as I understand it)

      At the risk of being moderated redundant, fair use gives you the right to make a copy under certain circumstances. It does not mean that content distributors have to provide the means to allow you to do it. In fact, they can quite legally make it technically challenging for you to do so.

    2. Re:So let's see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      that's not even legal under fair use! (as I understand it)

      I don't think you understand it very well. To quote Disney:

      "There is no right to fair use ... Fair use is a defense against infringement."
    3. Re:So let's see... by mttlg · · Score: 1

      In fact, they can quite legally make it technically challenging for you to do so.

      And quite technically they can make it legally challenging as well. I still can't figure out how to legally use something I can't legally develop or possess...

    4. Re:So let's see... by MrResistor · · Score: 2
      In fact, they can quite legally make it technically challenging for you to do so.

      Which, by way of the DMCA, conveniently removes your right to make fair use copies.

      If I'm going to shell out $20-30 for a DVD, I'm going to God-damned well fight for my right to make backup copies so that my 19 month old daughter can't destroy my investment.

      If the content industry wants to offer me every movie I want to see ON DEMAND and for a price I think is reasonable, then maybe we can talk. But I warn them, I pay $1 at the local video store for titles like "Zentropa" and "Temptation of a Monk" and "Leolo". In other words, compelling content that our beloved content industry is generally unwilling or unable to provide, at a price I think is reasonable. And did I mention On Demand? Not that bullshit pay-per-view-you'll-watch-it-when-we-tell-you crap. I want it to start when I want, stop when I want, pause, rewind, and fast-forward on my command. In other words, I want the rights I have right now, both theoretical and actual.

      I do have one additional requirement, which is that my high quality open source code remain free from the bloat of mandated "content protection".

      Those are my requirements, and probably the requirements of most of the people here, and, I would guess, the requirements of the general population if they actually knew what was going on. If the content industry can get what they want and still meet my requirements, great. Otherwise, they can enable me or somebody I'll support to take the DMCA and SSSCA all the way to the Supreme Court, again and again, until the rights of the people are restored.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    5. Re:So let's see... by Shmibbon · · Score: 1

      Holy jesus. This has probably already been noted, but...

      The SSSCA draft says that it is unlawful to create, sell or distribute "any interactive digital device that does not include and utilize certified security technologies" that are approved by the U.S. Commerce Department. An interactive digital device is defined as any hardware or software capable of "storing, retrieving, processing, performing, transmitting, receiving or copying information in digital form."

      INFORMATION IN DIGITAL FORM. And those actions include pretty much ALL computer components, do they not? They want to make it illegal to manufacture even PC components that don't comply with their "certified security technologies" FOR ALL INFORMATION. Dear general public: DANGER WILL FREAKIN ROBINSON

      -Shmibbon, not yet jaded and going insane over the 1984-ishness of it all

  6. constitutional amendment someday? by mrroot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just because a technology enables you to break the law should not make the technology itself illegal. That is what we're headed for though.

    Maybe someday we'll see a constitutional amendment that gives people the right to own technology. Just like we have the right to bear arms, which may have been equally important to people back in the 1700s.

    Just as guns can be used to commit crime, so can technology, but that is more the fault of the perpetrators than the technology itself.

    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
    1. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Shovels should be outlawed, because they can be used to commit horrific bloodshed. Yet, if they were outlawed, only outlaws would own shovels. Those damn gardners are communists anyways, they shouldn't be growing their own food when the capitalists do it safely and for the good of the country.

    2. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      That is a very good question.

      I wonder how broadly "right to bear arms" might be interpreted.

    3. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that the DMCA would almost certainly violate such a constitutional amendment, and given that congress passed the DMCA unanimously, what do you think is the probability that congress would ever ratify this fine constitutional amendment of yours?

    4. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by veektor · · Score: 1

      Congress shall pass no law that protects a business model when such a law reduces the freedom of choice.

    5. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by kesuki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Constitutional ammendments are Ratified by the States. Not the 'congress.' Of course they need a 2/3rds of the states to ratify a constitutional ammendment. As long as the MPAA and RIAA can keep 20 states in thier back pocket we'd never have that kind of ammendment.

      Besides, the DMCA already violates the constitution and some of the ammendmends. The problem is getting the law overturned in court.
      One could also argue that the right to bear arms already applies to computers. Since they Can be used as a weapon, people have a constitutional right to have them.

    6. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by dillon_rinker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Interesting point...

      Guns allowed the 1700s US populace to feed themselves, protect their property, and provide for the common defense. Unrestricted general purpose information processing devices have interesting parallels.

    7. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Their behavior depends entirely on how closely they think they are being watched. Congress isn't really opposed to us having rights; they just sell our rights when they're not being watched, and may protect them when they are. I don't think it would inconsistent for people who voted for DMCA to vote against it the very next day.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    8. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Winged+Cat · · Score: 2

      We can wish. Sadly, with the current Congress, it's more likely we'd sooner see an amendment passed to revoke the First Amendment. Not necessarily ratified by the states, mind, but it would have an easy ride getting most of the Congressional votes it'd need to be sent to the states for ratification.

    9. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really did not want to get into a discussion of the technical details of constitutional law here. (BTW, you're wrong. Read the constitution.) My point is simply this: given the current political climate, there is no realistic chance of getting such a constitutional amendment passed.

    10. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My fear is that such an amendment would easily pass. Look at the people you know. Look into the mirror as well. How many of them are truly in favor of freedom of speech? Even for people they/you/I adamantly disagree with?

    11. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by BEHiker57W · · Score: 1
      That's not precisely correct.


      It takes two thirds of both houses of the national
      legislature to propose a constitutional amendment.


      Then it takes three fourths of the states' approval to
      ratify it

    12. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Kirruth · · Score: 1

      Forbidding a general purpose machine because it can be used for an illegal purpose is like forbidding stoves because they can be used to cook hash cakes, or television because it can be used to watch pornography.

      Unless a machine is can only be used for lethal or illegal purposes, for example a jet fighter or lockpicks, we absolutely have the right to design, build and use that machine.

      We need the will to stop this right being eroded.

      --
      "Well, put a stake in my heart and drag me into sunlight."
    13. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Winged+Cat · · Score: 1

      I hear you. I can honestly say that I am for freedom of speech, even for my worst enemies - let the world hear their lies, so long as I or others can in turn expose said lies for what they are - but my own is an increasingly solo voice...

    14. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by kesuki · · Score: 1

      you were right about 3/4ths but there are TWO methods to ratify ammendments...
      "or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments"

      3/4ths is to ratify. 2/3rds of both houses OR 2/3rds of the states. Remember the first 10 ammendments were drafted by the states themselves. Because they wouldn't sign the constitution otherwise.

    15. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      err I think you were saying the same thing... but I'm easily confused. Especially when DBZ is on...

    16. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by jhantin · · Score: 1
      Unless a machine is can only be used for lethal or illegal purposes, for example a jet fighter or lockpicks...

      Even jet fighters and lockpicks have non-harmful, non-lawbreaking uses. A jet fighter is a fast, maneuverable airplane-- it can be used for recon or fast (if ridiculously expensive) transportation. Lockpicks? Well, how many times have you lost a key, locked your keys in your car or home, etc.? A friend of a friend of mine has picked the lock to his own place more than once due to forgetting or misplacing the key (occasionally scaring the daylights out of his roommate in the process).

      --
      ...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
    17. Re:constitutional amendment someday? by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 2

      My first year at GaTech, there was a power surge in my dorm (Smith, Spring of 99 if anyone here was there) that tripped the circuit breaker. The only way to get our power and lighting back was to get into the locked fuse box. This was late Friday night and maintenance was not going to show up anytime soon, so we just found someone who had a set of lockpicks and took care of it ourselves.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
  7. Is that what W3C TAG is up to? by 3seas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Because computers are potentially very efficient and capable copying machines, and because the Internet is potentially a very efficient and capable distribution mechanism, even in the hands of ordinary individuals, the Content Faction has set out to restructure the entire digital world we have today. They want to rearchitect not just the Internet, but every computer and digital tool on or off the Net that might be used to make unauthorized copies."

    Slashdot article on W3C TAG

    " In an effort to build shared understanding of Web Architecture principles, W3C has chartered and assembled a Technical Architecture Group - the TAG for short. The TAG will document cross-technology Web architecture principles, and resolve architectural issues. "

    1. Re:Is that what W3C TAG is up to? by McChump · · Score: 1

      I just ran out of mod points, so I can't mark this down as "-1, paranoid." I hope someone else does me the favor.

      --
      I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners. - Berke Breathed
    2. Re:Is that what W3C TAG is up to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I just ran out of mod points, so I can't mark this down as "-1, dickhead." I hope someone else (or two) does me the favor.

      ~~~

    3. Re:Is that what W3C TAG is up to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      done

    4. Re:Is that what W3C TAG is up to? by Kirruth · · Score: 1
      They want to rearchitect not just the Internet, but every computer and digital tool on or off the Net that might be used to make unauthorized copies.

      They would like that, no doubt. If you consider the article about the content providers vs. the machine makers, none of them give a thought to the end user, except as a patsy to be soaked for cash. The machine makers plainly have no moral objection to controlling users rights, as long as it their technology which is doing the controlling.

      The media companies have the budget, the track record and the determination to push this to its bitter end: they should not be underestimated.

      Although they'd like to re-architecht it, happily the Internet does not belong to them: it belongs to the end users. At least for now.

      --
      "Well, put a stake in my heart and drag me into sunlight."
  8. Thought for the day by ackthpt · · Score: 1
    The content guys are obviously stupid, but MS's tactics...

    ...

    You have IBM supporting linux on one hand, and its hard drive people pulling that digital management stuff for IDE drives.

    Thought for the day:

    If you think Microsoft is bad for assailing Linux, with all it's distros, open source and accessibility, imagine how much worse things would be if they supported it and pushed their closed "Shared Source" and whoring to the content industry in their own brand of Microsoft Linux.

    The horror! The horror!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Thought for the day by sketerpot · · Score: 2
      Microsoft Linux would be a flop. The sort of people who would use Linux wouldn't buy MS Linux, People wouldn't want to leave Windows, and any way, MS Linux ould probably have the same sort of idiotic bugs that have plagued Microsoft products for years. Such as:

      You can either log in, or press cancel to log in as root automatically...

  9. which is worse by archen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In all honesty I just skimmed the article because I didn't find it all that interesting. I don't really see so much of a bad point of IBM and company winning this fight, compared to the nightmare described if the Content faction wins - basically making it all but illegal to have a general purpose computer.

    civil offense for anyone who developed (for example) a new computer that did not include a federally approved security standard preventing the unlicensed copying of copyrighted works

    Now THIS really scares me. That is just a skip away from "having any copyrighted material on your computer will result in prison time". Movies first, then Music (or perhaps at the same time). Then we move on to images. Have a wallpaper of some copyrighted picture? Yeah, that's illegal. At some point we have to draw the line. I don't agree with copying movies, but that could be because I hate watching movies on a computer anyway. I'd much rather sit on my cushy couch and watch a movie myself. Go rent a high quality DVD, or search the internet, find a link that works, and wait for hours downloading it - hmm... I'll just spend a few bucks. And if I liked it I'd probably buy it anyway. I really wonder if movie downloading is as wide spread as the movie industry claims.

    1. Re:which is worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're pretty advanced now. I've got a 300 disc VCD/DVD auto changer. I sit on my couch and watch a 32" Sony TV. The quality is SVHS (good enough for me). The movies go on CDrw and if they're good I buy the DVD and stick it in the changer. When the changer is full, I can daisy chain another one onto it (and another and another). Auto gnutella bots get the content, they just need to know how big the file is they're looking for and some keywords.

      So I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to rub two sticks together anymore and I think that is what scares them. They shouldn't be scared though, in the end I'm still buying movies. I'm just not paying to preview like I previously had to do by seeing things in the cinema or renting them. Waiting for them to come to CableTV is free too though. Maybe that explains their dislike for ReplayTV. Their current business model is being attacked from all sides at once. Sort of makes you feel for the guys that used to make the whips and buggies...

    2. Re:which is worse by Buran · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Have a wallpaper of some copyrighted picture? Yeah, that's illegal."
      Is it? Not really... unless you bought it from, say, a "bundleware" CD of stuff that is supposed to be free (many freeware programs explicitly say in their readmes that this is not allowed) or it's an illegally resold commercial item (stolen goods?)

      Fair use is an interesting thing. Browsing the machine that hosts my web site (I'm one of a number of virtual hosts on it) I came across this page once:

      Q: I love that drawing of yours, may I use it as the desktop wallpaper on my personal computer at home?

      A: Sure you can. You're enjoying it personally, after all. This doesn't mean you can use if for your wallpaper on a webpage though! Private viewing of my work, such as on a PC desktop, is just fine.

      In other words, this is fair use. The image may be copyrighted, but since you are not reselling it and are viewing it "in your own home" as those FBI warnings on home movies put it, there's no real harm. The images are provided for that purpose, after all -- what's the difference between dropping it on your desktop and floating windows over it and just leaving it in your browser? This is an example of what is intended by the fair use copyright law. A real shame that more content providers (in this case an artist) don't "get it" like this one does.

      Yeah, I have a fair amount of copyrighted images on my computer. No, I don't redistribute them. Most of them are there as results of discussions ("this is what that looks like, so you know what I'm talking about"). That falls under "academic" use, which is largely what the recent arguments of fair use are about (Prof. Felten is a prime example).

      I'd be a lot worse off if my own computer denied me permission to do that. The worst part of all this isn't the lost profits for one of these two camps.

      It is going to be when academic freedoms, long held almost sacred here in the US, start to die. Compared to that threat, which has huge potential for long-term damage, the short-term worries about movies and music are a joke.

      But that's typical of the MPAA/RIAA lately. Make money now and screw over the future. I bet the space station engineers at NASA and Boeing would be nodding their heads right now if they were reading this ...

    3. Re:which is worse by archen · · Score: 1

      I agree. But consider replacing all of your arguments with music and mp3's. Now it looks a lot like the arguments that are happening right now over digital music. I admit that having copyrighted images is fair use (provided I don't make T-shirts out of them or something), but you have to wonder about the consequences if digital music becomes illegal despite "fair use". A foot in the door can have widespread repercussions down the road... while I can't imagine the FBI busting down doors of peoples houses, I begin to wonder if eventually there won't be some sort of crackdown on internet websites themselves. Or perhaps it would be one of those obscure things which the government uses to add to jail time. I recall hearing about drug busts in which the cops never really got any drug/criminal charges to stick, but DID find copied movies ($250k offence per tape if memory serves). That in itself is enough to make you paranoid.

    4. Re:which is worse by Webmonger · · Score: 2

      Neither one of you's wrong, because you're talking about different things. Yes, copying an image onto your desktop from a website is currently considered fair use, but the first post was saying fair use is being eroded to the point that this will become illegal.

    5. Re:which is worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, I do this all the time, with paper copies of things.

      I live in a community rich with art galleries; many of these have brochures of featured works. I routinely pick up the brochures, scan them, and use them for desktop wallpaper.

      My home office is decorated in beautifully framed works of art that are enlargements (on an analog color photocopier) of these brochures.

      I'm not competing with the artists to sell their works, and I'm using source material-- the brochures-- that in many cases was handed to me directly by the artist or gallery owner themselves.

      This, as I understand it, constitutes fair use.

      The gallery hasn't lost any sales-- we're talking in the neighborhood of $3K for prints, and $25K for originals; I'm not that rich-- and perhaps has some additional exposure from people visiting my house.

      Key point: it's not illegal.

  10. Cry me (another) river... by symbolic · · Score: 2, Informative


    As has been said so many times before, all of these stupid ownership and copyright battles can be over and done in a matter of a few months, if consumers would just WISE UP to what it is they're buying, and refuse to purchase anything with unreasonable strings attached. As long as consumers LET them call the shots, they WILL. Without the money, though, they're nothing.

    It's time to stop whining, and start doing (like I have). Stop buying the stuff. SIMPLE.

    1. Re:Cry me (another) river... by pointym5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Read the damn article.

      The issue discussed is NOT content -- it has nothing to do with whether you're boycotting copy-protected CDs, or Disney movies, or whatever. Do you like building your own machine from parts scrounged via PriceWatch? Do you like building your own bleeding edge Linux kernel and optimizing the driver for your video card? Well the article is about the distinct possibility that corporate interests will negotiate a legal solution that directly implies that writing your own software or building your own hardware is ILLEGAL.

    2. Re:Cry me (another) river... by Trilaka · · Score: 1


      It's time to stop whining, and start doing (like I have). Stop buying the stuff. SIMPLE.

      It really isn't that simple. While the educated few could boycott the goods, that isn't going to put much of a dent into the profits of these companies, as the (relatively, and specifically on this point) uneducated majority will continue to happily and ignorantly purchase away.

      The single consumer has little power in this system. The only bastion of hope would be to educate the masses, not simply to refuse to buy ourselves. The problem lies in finding a way to get the message across to an apathetic audience. How do you make your average, contented consumer realize that they should shoulder a little bit of discomfort for the good of society? And, more problematic still, how do you get your average American to shoulder a little bit of discomfort for any reason whatsoever, outside of personal gain?

    3. Re:Cry me (another) river... by Flower · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Explain to me why 99.999 percent of the consumers out there should give a rip and "wise up." What unreasonable strings are being attached to them? Let's look at DVDs for instance.
      • Region encoding? Big whoop. For the vast majority of people out there this is a non-issue. They aren't buying foreign films from France. People are buying stuff like Cat and Dogs or Planet of the Apes.
      • Can't play on alternative OSes. Again. The market inconveinenced is so small it effectively has no voice.
      • Can't copy. Most people don't do that anyway. If Joe Average doesn't feel the need to backup his financial data on his PC then why backup his video library? For the public in general this too is a non-issue.

      Now let's look at what they get by using DVDs.
      • Better video and sound quality.
      • More features. Like different aspects. Abilty to add in deleted scenes. Different languages. Games. The list goes on and on.

      So from the consumer's perspective, there aren't any strings attached. Just a better product. And just as it is extremely hard to convince the Copyright Office and the Courts to take into consideration hypothetical pitfalls and insignificant markets it is even harder to explain these issues to a consumer. Been there, done that.

      So no, it isn't "simple." I refuse to buy those products just like you but after listening to my co-workers I realize they could give a rip about any of these issues. Even the one who got burned by the region encoding on a DVD he bought from the UK. Was he disappointed? Yes. Would he stop purchasing DVDs? Hell no.

      The problem with consumers "calling the shots" in this battle is one of inertia and unless Big Media does something completely whacked like suddenly going straight to everything is copy controlled pay-per-view it will only be "radicals" who fight this on the consumer front.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    4. Re:Cry me (another) river... by W.B.+Yeats · · Score: 1

      You know, I really have to agree. Individuals need to assume the power that they have -- which is truly imense. No one can force me to buy anything I don't want -- isn't that amazing? MS and Disney have no power over me at all -- ZERO.

      It amuses that this debate stems from access to crap entertainment.

      Is my response only smug self satisfaction from a technical elite? I don't think so: my response comes from an increasing belief that all I can do is all I can do, and I believe that applies to everyone.

      --

      And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
      Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

    5. Re:Cry me (another) river... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      The market inconveinenced is so small it effectively has no voice.

      There are so few Arabs in this country, they effectively have no voice.

      You make it sound like its ok to ignore a minority of people. You also ignore another fact. I buy a movie, i am allowed to watch it. How i choose to do so is (and should be) irrelevent. So what if i want to play in on my linux computer? Or a device of my own design? I bought the fucking thing, i will watch it any damn way i please.

      * Can't copy. Most people don't do that anyway. If Joe Average doesn't feel the need to backup his financial data on his PC then why backup his video library? For the public in general this too is a non-issue.

      I think Napster disproves that copying is a nonissue.

      * Region encoding? Big whoop. For the vast majority of people out there this is a non-issue. They aren't buying foreign films from France. People are buying stuff like Cat and Dogs or Planet of the Apes.

      While the import market might be small, i'm sure it exists in suffient numbers that its there and operating. While many not many people buy movies from france, i think alot more do from Japan (anime comes to mind..).

    6. Re:Cry me (another) river... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Region encoding? Big whoop. For the vast majority of people out there this is a non-issue. They aren't buying foreign films from France. People are buying stuff like Cat and Dogs or Planet of the Apes.

      my dvd player is region hacked. i can play them from anywhere.. even those dvds they CLAIM to be able to detect these.

      Can't play on alternative OSes. Again. The market inconveinenced is so small it effectively has no voice.

      i dont run an alternative OS, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that playing dvds on linux is now trivial. besides, you should get a real player :)

      Can't copy. Most people don't do that anyway. If Joe Average doesn't feel the need to backup his financial data on his PC then why backup his video library? For the public in general this too is a non-issue.

      sure you can, ive ripped my dvds to mpeg and made divx of them to use on trips, then deleted after watching them. (SO wanted me to not travel w/ the dvds) the player is also macrovision hacked so i can copy dvd to vhs.

      so weve already cut all these so called "unreasonable strings." so.. whats your point exactly?

    7. Re:Cry me (another) river... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Informative
      You make it sound like its ok to ignore a minority of people. You also ignore another fact. I buy a movie, i am allowed to watch it. How i choose to do so is (and should be) irrelevent. So what if i want to play in on my linux computer? Or a device of my own design? I bought the fucking thing, i will watch it any damn way i please.

      That's just the point the original poster was making - that the whole "you should just not buy their products" line is not an adequate or useful strategy because it doesn't protect the rights of the minority. The only real remedy is political guaranty of the rights of all the consumers, not just small individual acts of boycotting. Yet there is such an aversion to participating in the political sphere in techie circles that there is almost always a knee-jerk "let the market take care of it" "just don't buy their products" chorus whenever these developments appear.

    8. Re:Cry me (another) river... by Flower · · Score: 2
      You make it sound like its ok to ignore a minority of people. You also ignore another fact. I buy a movie, i am allowed to watch it. How i choose to do so is (and should be) irrelevent. So what if i want to play in on my linux computer? Or a device of my own design? I bought the fucking thing, i will watch it any damn way i please.

      Tell that to the copyright office and the courts because how you chose to watch that DVD is relevent. The DMCA doesn't give you, the consumer, the right to decrypt the DVD that right is given to you by the copyright holder and they can say you are SOL if you use linux.

      Seriously. Go to openlaw, find the recent decision and read it.

      I think Napster disproves that copying is a nonissue.

      I think Napster proves that the music industry was slow in moving onto the web and that people love free stuff. After talking to too many co-workers and listening to other people talk about their kids downloading gigs of music I just can't buy this rose-colored view that Napster is used enough for legitimate purposes to mitigate it's use for rampant infringment.

      Napster is "fair use" at it's worst. Oh, I only want to sample the music before I buy it but I'll archive it to a CD. "Just in case."

      While the import market might be small, i'm sure it exists in suffient numbers that its there and operating. While many not many people buy movies from france, i think alot more do from Japan (anime comes to mind..).

      You're missing the point. Even if you combined all of the people who want to buy non-Region 1 DVDs into one demographic and got them fired up enough to actually do something about it they are too small of a group to have any influence in the market. So what if a hundred thousand (imho a generous number) consumers don't buy into DVDs if millions of people will.

      The thread wasn't about rights (and yes, I have a bleak look on that front also. I do read what comes out of the courts and the government), it was about consumers effecting change through the marketplace which is something I don't see happening anytime soon.

      --
      I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
    9. Re:Cry me (another) river... by -brazil- · · Score: 1
      so weve already cut all these so called "unreasonable strings." so.. whats your point exactly?


      The point is that MPAA, RIAA & Co. are lobbying for the act of cutting those strings and the tools necessary to do so to be made illegal. And that they may actually succeed because they have all the lobbying money and the majority of people aren't even aware of the strings.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    10. Re:Cry me (another) river... by anthony_baxter · · Score: 1

      Region encoding? Big whoop.

      Maybe for those of you in the US. There's a whooole lot of people who aren't in Region 1, and they care about this. The number of movies that don't get released outside region 1 is horrific.

    11. Re:Cry me (another) river... by jpkeane · · Score: 1

      What about if I don't own a CD player??

      Many albumns are not released in vinyl. Should I complain about my rights to get any music I want in the form that _I_ want it??

      Similar to the 'Can't play DVD on linux' problem. Just go out and install Windows! If you don't want to, then you can't complain about not being able to play that shiny new DVD on linux.

      Ir's up to the content owners to issue in any form they want. This goes for copy-protected CDs as well. So long as they're clearly labeled and can be returned if you buy them inder the mistaken assumption that they'll play in your PC, then there's no problem.

      It sucks, but it's only fair.

      It's funny how the people who are most against content being distribited in a form that allows them to do what they want with it ("Information wants to be free!") manage to ridicule Microsoft for complaining that they can't use GPL code without GPLing their whole producy? Contradiction here?? Of course, the reverse is also true..

    12. Re:Cry me (another) river... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Your arguement is invalid. Being able to play a dvd in linux isn't about the format of the music (CD or vinyl). The hardware is identical in both cases. I buy a DVD disc, and a DVD ROM, and i expect to be able to watch the DVD on my computer.

      This is whats fair to me. I bought the goddamn DVD, and i will watch it, period. Thats the right given to me by owning it, and no one will tell me when, where, or how i will watch it. I'm not breaking any laws by viewing it, thats the whole point of my owning it!

    13. Re:Cry me (another) river... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the copyright office and the courts because how you chose to watch that DVD is relevent. The DMCA doesn't give you, the consumer, the right to decrypt the DVD that right is given to you by the copyright holder and they can say you are SOL if you use linux.

      I could care less what they say. Honestly. I BOUGHT THE GODDAMNED DVD. The sole purpose of owning a DVD is to watch it. I OWN it, therefore i will and can watch it. As far as copyright goes, i'm not doing any copying. Just because something is law doesn't mean its right.

      and that people love free stuff.

      Sure, can you blame them? 'Hmm, i can get this for free, or i can pay for the exact same thing. I think i'd rather pay.' Does that even seem rational? Here's something else for you to consider. I also think that napster shows that music has no value (monetarily, at least). People don't think its worth paying for, otherwise they would. I'm willing to bet that most people with gigs of MP3s would NOT have bought the CD that contains the music they have. I might like a song, but ya know what, i'm not willing to pay for it to listen to it whenever i want. It seems to me like alot of people have that feeling. If it comes down to paying or nothing, i pick nothing. So napster or not, i think the record companies are fucked.

      too small of a group to have any influence in the market

      So instead of a small market, and making some money, the corps would rather make no money. Hmm. Good business logic to me.

      The thread wasn't about rights (and yes, I have a bleak look on that front also. I do read what comes out of the courts and the government), it was about consumers effecting change through the marketplace which is something I don't see happening anytime soon.
      You're right, no one will effect change through the markets. However to me, region coding isn't about markets, its about peoples rights to own something and do what they wish with it. To me this is a social issue, and you change things socially by getting involved in politics, and breaking unjust laws every chance you get. Of course the chances of people doing that are probably small too...but does that mean no one should try?

  11. compelling content? by TTop · · Score: 5, Interesting
    article says:
    What's been missing from the debate so far has been the users themselves. It seems safe to say that most computer and Internet users like to have choices -- choices both of the content they consume and of the kinds of tools they should get to use. Still, maybe citizens would say they're willing to give up "general-purpose" computers and willing to use, instead, systems designed to prevent them from engaging in willy-nilly copying, if that is the price you have to pay for compelling music and movies and television over the Internet.

    I guess I don't hear people clamoring for "compelling music and movies and television" over the Internet. I already have devices that do all three of those things just fine -- what's going to compell me to buy new devices to do these same things? I don't really want to sit in front of my computer to watch movies or television anyway, and I don't see the digital televisions coming into the _really_ affordable range (sub $1k) anyway.

    I'd be happy to keep it that way as long as nobody tries to mandate how my computer treats bits! Why would I want to give up my existing devices for new content-controlled, digital rights managed devices? Is it somehow going to be "better" for me? What are the benefits to the consumer? It seems like (almost?) all the benefits are for the content companies, not me! Why would somebody pay money for this?
    1. Re:compelling content? by DJerman · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Why would somebody pay money for this?

      Because LOTR: Return of the King may not play in your old DVD player. All they have to do is change the coding. It's not for delivering stuff over the internet -- it's for keeping you from re-watching your old movies forever, rather than buying new ones, and to keep you from (God forbid) creating your own stuff and posting it for others to see. What it's really for is to raise a barrier so that artists can't show or sell their art without funneling through one of these big companies for distribution.

      If the Hollings bill passes, one day your computer will break, you'll look around, and there won't be any more to buy. You'll pay for this or live without computers (or toasters, if it passes in the form i read it). That's the evil - that you won't be able to get a general purpose computer or media player even if you don't want the compelling content. Because if it were general purpose it could be used to copy and display uncontrolled content.

      The point is that you're right -- this can't happen with out a law (and treaties) banning alternatives. And the law will happen if we're not careful. That's what's wrong here. Government protecting corporations against the people who elect the government.

      --
    2. Re:compelling content? by WhiteKnight07 · · Score: 1

      It seems like (almost?) all the benefits are for the content companies, not me!

      You do of course realize that this the basic reason that corporations exist in the first place, to benefit themselves. They exist only to make a profit. Their interest in benefiting consumers is, at best, merely a side effect of this goal.

      --


      We're going to make information free Mr. Anderson, whether you like it, or not.
    3. Re:compelling content? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Yes, but as a consumer, I have no interest in the corporations well-being. If I think they're trying to rip me off, they ain't getting my money! If a few thousand other consumers feel the same way, they'll change or die!

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    4. Re:compelling content? by Squirrel+Killer · · Score: 1
      If a few thousand other consumers feel the same way, they'll change or die!
      Unforunately, a few thousand consumers boycotting their product isn't going to have a large enough of an effect to make them change their ways. A couple hundred thousand...now maybe you're talking, but a few thousand isn't likely to show up on their radars, or their profit charts.
    5. Re:compelling content? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I probably should have said a few thousand consumers COMPLAINING about it. If they get a bunch of complaints, there's sure to be far more consumers who are PO'd but too lazy to call. They'll still stop buying, and bad-mouth the company to their friends.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    6. Re:compelling content? by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 2
      You do of course realize that this the basic reason that corporations exist in the first place, to benefit themselves. They exist only to make a profit. Their interest in benefiting consumers is, at best, merely a side effect of this goal.

      I certainly do. Which is why I have no problem with the RIAA trying to make a secure CD (as long as it is clearly labelled as such) or the MPAA putting regions on their DVD's. I may not like it, but they made the stuff, they can design it as they want.

      The problem I have is with them going to Congress and getting them to tell their customers "It's our way or the prison way". You want to encrypt your DVD's? Fine. You want to deny me the freedom to try and work around it? Extraordinarily unfine.

      You know, it would be so very nice if we could have a seance with a few of our founding fathers, explain the situation, and ask them if their idea of copyright extended to prohibition of giving stuff away. That really is the burning question here.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
    7. Re:compelling content? by deblau · · Score: 1
      If the Hollings bill passes, one day your computer will break, you'll look around, and there won't be any more to buy. You'll pay for this or live without computers (or toasters, if it passes in the form i read it). That's the evil - that you won't be able to get a general purpose computer or media player even if you don't want the compelling content.

      You mean to say, "... buy in the US". I'd love to give money to our friends in Canada or Mexico, unless they try to stop computer/IT imports. Picture Sen Hollings on the Mexico border, trying to stop people from smuggling in illegal sticks of RAM. Too bad he has to chase after them on foot, because his (now illegal) car had a built-in MP3 player.
      --
      This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
    8. Re:compelling content? by DJerman · · Score: 2
      You mean to say, "... buy in the US".

      Yes, it's US-centric but so is the specific bill. And those imported devices would be illegal to buy or sell, so you'd need to give those Canadian or Mexican friends money for a house. :-)

      I agree that it's improbable at that degree, but it's the dystopian vision of a world that would let the legislation pass (and stand). The point is you gotta holler about it (here or wherever it goes on) or they (whoever they are that wrote the bill for Sen. Hollings) will slip it through and then you'll be the one trying to change the status quo.

      --
  12. Government, Business, Religion by telbij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find it somewhat scary that 'content companies' have willing allies in congress for this kind of oppressive legislation.

    To me it's a symptom of too much prosperity. Think about it, these 'content companies' are no more than _businessmen_ who profit from other people's work. They say it's their god-given right to buy something and then sell it repeatedly forever making billions of dollars. Yet they forget (and it would seem congress forgets) that money != value. Money is supposed to represent value so that people can trade goods. Throwing more middle-men into the equation doesn't increase value UNLESS they provide quality-assurance, shipping, or some other thing that the producer themselves doesn't want to do but is nevertheless necessary.

    Our quality of life is determined by how many goods and services get produced, not how much money is spent. Because the United States is so rich, we forget that the value of money comes from all our hard work. If we suddenly start devoting man-hours to stifling distribution of existing work and regulating everything so that every pasty-faced exec can get his stock options + bonus, where will the value be?

    In the information age it's clear that the richest society is the one with the most information. The way to achieve that goal is to spend our time researching and developing new information, not creating a world where trading information becomes harder.

    Note that this is not an "information wants to be free" argument. I think people who contribute to society should get paid, and get paid well. Currently there is not an efficient mechanism whereby information producers can get paid small amounts by the masses who enjoy their work. That's the 'content companies' niche.

    I grudgingly admit that there is a place for middle-men in this world, but we have to draw the line at legislation that just makes them fatter and reduces our cultural value.

    I think this problem, like so many in our society is caused by too much money in government. The founding fathers knew that religion had to be separated from government in order to be fair and just. Sadly we were too poor then for them to realize that the economy must also be kept strictly out of government. I say we have publicly funded elections with standard forums where candidates can express their views. Outlaw political advertising as subversive propaganda, and let Joe Schmoe run for office. It has been said that "You can't legislate morality." But that is a falacy because what else is legislation for?

    1. Re:Government, Business, Religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Your argument is interesting and well-written. It's unfortunate that most readers will fail to notice that it has a fundamental flaw: it is complete nonsense.

      Where the hell do you get the idea that we are living in an era of "too much prosperity"? You provide absolutely no evidence to back this up (nor could you, because -- I repeat myself -- it is complete nonsense). The economy as a whole, and the economic situation of the music industry in particular, are quickly deteriorating. The current round of totalitarian legislation is hardly the result of "too much prosperity"; on the contrary, it is the result of a number of declining corporations desperately trying to salvage whatever they can (by any means necessary) from a rapidly shrinking industry.

    2. Re:Government, Business, Religion by raduga · · Score: 1
      I find it somewhat scary that 'content companies' have willing allies in congress for this kind of oppressive legislation.

      To me, that's not the scary part
      What's really frightening, when you consider that the 'content companies' claim to speak for the myriads of silent 'content creators' aka artists, is that the voice of 'content company' allies in congress COMPLETELY overwhelms and surpasses that of actual content creators, who ARE members of congress! If Senator Orrin Hatch and other musicians (who publish and sell their work) in Congress are unable to convince their peers that RIAA are as much thieves as the napsteroids, then we're in trouble.

      It has been said that "You can't legislate morality." But that is a falacy because what else is legislation for?

      It's only half a fallacy. Morality can be legislated, but only very poorly. Morality is about our core beliefs and values, and most attempts to regulate these turn up laughable.

      What legislation CAN be used for, and can be very effective at times, is for enforcing Ethics, which is in essence more about behaviors and how we apply our personal idiosyncratic moral frameworks to a multimoral society.

      Here's an example.

      • I personally believe Nudity (not wearing clothes) is EVIL, is bad and would like for people not ever to not have clothes on.

        That's a moral judgement, being a belief and a value. If I decide I want everyone else to feel the same way about clothes, I have a pretty difficult row to hoe, since some people (Say, the girl next door) do not like wearing clothes at all! What I can do, however, is lobby my congresscritter to pass a law regulating what people *do* with clothes, i.e. that they must wear clothes when walking outside where members of the sensitive public as myself, can see them.

        It's an ethical guideline because it it bridges between my morals and the morals of the girl next door. She might see it as an imposition, because it prevents her from trapising about naked on my lawn, but it does not prevent her from doing so indoors, or in some other setting that I might not notice.

      Moral edicts come from people like God and Mom, and possibly Osama (if you follow his advice??? Bad advice if you do) but ethics come from people like Nietzche, Rheinquist and Orrin. You might notice that ALL of these people suggest both moral and ethical ideas, but the main weight of their discourse falls into the one or the other.

      In general, it seems that Moral people will regard you as immoral if you dispute their morals, but Ethical people may still grant you ethical, while in dispute, since disagreement and resolution seem to be what Ethics is all about.

      --
      First, nothing begins if not opening
    3. Re:Government, Business, Religion by mrseth · · Score: 1

      > It has been said that "You can't legislate morality." But that is a falacy because what else is legislation for?

      It is true that you cannot legislate morality. Morality involves a choice. Legislating away a perceived incorrect choice does not make one more moral. Laws should only be enacted which offer the protection of citizens from violating each others basic civil liberties and go no further to restrict freedoms. This would include things like criminalizing rape and murder. Note this is not the way the U.S. Congress legislates. They routinely trample freedoms in pursuit of forcing their idea of morality, patriotism or even religion down our throats. The War on Drugs is a perfect example where they basically regulate what one can put in their body while in the privacy of their own home. There are many other examples of this such as the Flag Desecration Amendment, the CDA, Defense of Marriage Act, etc., etc. How do you think the Bill of Rights would fare these days if it were up to being passed by our present day Congress? I would bet it would be very different and be much more antifreedom in its content. What was given to us by giants is being slowly nibbled away by midgets all in the name of legislating morality, patriotism and religion.

    4. Re:Government, Business, Religion by curunir · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but I have a hard time lending any credence to an argument where "the girl next door won't wear any clothes" is a bad thing....

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    5. Re:Government, Business, Religion by telbij · · Score: 2

      It is unfortunate that you posted anonymously so most people won't read your counterpoint.

      Still, you aren't really addressing my argument. My argument hinges on the assumption that wealth is increased by production of goods and services that people desire. If you are going to call my argument "complete nonsense", perhaps you would care to address that issue.

      The assertion that we have "too much prosperity" is not a meant as an empirical statement. Rather it is somewhat of a side issue. When legislators are convinced that economy is driven by middle-men and resellers then there is a clear obfuscation of what drives the economy. If we were "less prosperous" then it would be more clear where the value was coming from, and congress certainly wouldn't consider legislation that would help a few special interests skim more money off the already short supply of actual goods and services.

      The current state of the economy is not part of my argument. I fully understand that a lot of bad legislation is inspired by industry woes. I'm not concerned with the regular ups and downs of the economy, I'm just concerned that if this country doesn't pull itself out special interests' grip we will be dragged down with them in the inevitable ebb and flow of industries.

    6. Re:Government, Business, Religion by Secret+Coward · · Score: 1
      I find it somewhat scary that 'content companies' have willing allies in congress for this kind of oppressive legislation.

      This is no coincidence. The outcome of an election is based mostly on a small group of swing voters. Those voters make their decision based on media coverage. To win an election, and to stay in office, a congress-person must stay on good terms with the media, lest their mistakes become the punchline on Letterman.

      ABC is owned by Disney. ABC News' motto is: more people get their news from ABC News than from any other source. So, when Disney asks congress to retroactively extend copyrights another 20 years, congress passes the law without so much as a debate.

    7. Re:Government, Business, Religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have things backwards. The Bill of Rights was
      created to protect religion from government, not
      to protect government from religion. That's what
      the Bill of Rights it about. Protecting people
      from government. It's not an accident that
      protection of religion from the government is
      the *first* ammendment and the right to keep and
      bear arms the *second*. Of all the rights
      enumerated in the Bill of Rights these two were
      deemed most important. From these two spring all
      other freedoms.

      By-the-way, their is no seperation of church
      and state clause in the Bill of Rights, nor is
      it implied. It simply doesn't exist, period.

      Government funded elections? And you say you
      are for freeedom? If you have no private funding
      and only the government can fund elections then
      only those who meet the governments *approval*
      will be able to run for office. That doesn't
      sound like freedom to me.

    8. Re:Government, Business, Religion by mrseth · · Score: 1

      > By-the-way, their is no seperation of church
      > and state clause in the Bill of Rights, nor is
      > it implied. It simply doesn't exist, period.

      What is more important: The literal meaning of the words written in the Bill of Rights or the meaning and political philosophy of the authors? I submit that you must take into consideration the context in which these were written. If you read the writings of Jefferson and Madison, there most certainly is a "wall of seperation between church and state", as Jefferson put it. In fact the first draft of the first amendment, authored by Madison begins as follows:

      "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, nor on any pretext infringed..."

      One of the prime motivating factors behind this seperation is the Framer's distaste for the authoritarian power of the established churches in Europe coupled with the ascent of reason to oppose blinding faith.

      By the way, there was once a time when the church ruled and everyone was a god-fearing Christian. We now refer to this time as the dark ages. This is one reason why we need that wall.

    9. Re:Government, Business, Religion by telbij · · Score: 2

      I can see by the various replies that phrase "Legislate Morality" is difficult to interpret objectively.

      All I meant by it is that we pass laws to prevent people from doing things that we view as 'wrong' (meaning amoral) for whatever reason.

      I agree that we should only legislate things that trample on others freedom. Your post illustrates a nuanced point about modern legislation and should be modded up.

    10. Re:Government, Business, Religion by telbij · · Score: 2

      Government funded elections? And you say you
      are for freeedom? If you have no private funding
      and only the government can fund elections then
      only those who meet the governments *approval*
      will be able to run for office. That doesn't
      sound like freedom to me.

      I don't blame you for your cynicism on this issue, but ideally the government is supposed to represent the people. Democracy is supposed to ensure that the government does represent the people, and that each person is represented equally. The spirit of Democracy has been shit on by the fact that you have to spend in insane amount of money to even stand a chance at winning an election.

      The only way to give everyone an equal voice is to make it illegal to use money to influence political campaigns. The only way to get the money out is to provide a standard forum for candidates to voice their opinions. The government is supposed to be the organization that represents everyone's interests, and therefore can provide a service without having the profit from it.

      Granted, the idea is not possible to implement given the current state of our government, but I'm quite surprised that you trust corporate-sponsored government more than money-free government.

    11. Re:Government, Business, Religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PORK
      BEAST

      (she is made of ham.)

    12. Re:Government, Business, Religion by cha0sadddddddd · · Score: 1

      i cant belive you mention orin hatch. hes such a son of a bitch. he (or more likly an aide)writes back to my letters bragging about how he helped pass the dmca and "we will have to agree to disagree on this issue"

      --
      Collecting data is only the first step toward wisdom. But sharing data is the first step toward community
  13. Balance by terrymr · · Score: 1

    The problem here is a question of balance. Yes copyright infringement is a generally bad thing. It pushes up prices for the rest of us and threatens the profitiability of the providers. Is stopping piracy the most important thing in the world ??
    heck no !
    The content industry has been screaming "The monsters are coming" for years yet entertainment is still masively profitable for them. The current law already shifts the balance too far in favour of the industry and away from consumers. If the quest to stop infrigement is going to interfere with everyday life then it's going too far.

    1. Re:Balance by bryan1945 · · Score: 2

      Right on- this started the day VCRs came out, and now they have the term "perfect digital copy" to also bandy about. And the one guy who predicted that "Napster was the end of the music industry, in 5 years it'll just be a cottage industry"- can you lay the FUD on a little thicker next time?!

      I don't know what the "content faction" is really striving for here. Every year their revenues and profits go up, even in the Napster years. Forget music, I stopped listening to new music a decade ago. Movies I like, but if they keep pushing DVDs into stranger formats and making me jump through hoops just to watch a friggin rental, I might just drop that habit, too. Good job there, guys! Alienating the customer!

      The "tech faction" sounds like the less evil of the 2, but even they have their problems. DRM on hard drives- so much for backing up my data if I don't do it right. (Yeah, it's only supposed to be for copyrighted/watermarked material, but do you really trust that they won't screw up the DRM code somehow, resulting in my data refusing to be copied?)

      And why the hell does the government need to set any kind of standard in a private industry?! (Answer- lobbiests are paying them to) How about just trying to keep our asses from being blown up in big buildings?

      News from the future:
      "Sony has just trademarked the color blue. Here is the online account number that you may send your micropayments each time you see the color blue. Film at eleven, once we pay for the blue"

      indiv.rights > toilet
      indiv.$ > content.co

      /rant

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  14. SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitudes by SysKoll · · Score: 5, Insightful
    At stake in this war, says Eisner, who's the acknowledged leader of the Content Faction, is "the future of the American entertainment industry, the future of American consumers, the future of America's balance of international trade."

    We know the SSSCA does not make sense from a technical point of view. We know that it is akin to smothering basic freedoms. But of course, these considerations do not compute in the dollar terms that are the only things filtering through your average executive's thick ears (not to mention many Congresscritters).

    So let's humor Eisner's point of view and talk greenbacks here. Let's see: Unless my sources are totally wrong, Hollywood's revenue is about $9 to $13 billion a year. Among which a lot of derived products reimported in the USA (e.g. console games on movie licenses) which actually degrade the US trade balance. But let's retain the $13 billion/year for the sake of this discussion.

    On the other hand, the IT industry represents $600 billion at least. Heck, just adding up IBM, Microsoft, HP/Compaq and EDS gives you more than $300 billion/year.

    So let me get this straight, Mr. Eisner: in order to "protect" a $13B/year industry branch against a problem that isn't an effective threat yet, and might never be, you and other SSSCA supporters want to hamper and possibly seriously harm an industry that is at least 25 times bigger?

    And this is going to help the US economy?

    So even from a strickly financial point, SSSCA does not make any sense. Eisner is a fraud. He is athreat to the IT industry, which produced far more jobs, wealth and well-being than any other industry since WWII.

    With business executives like that at the head of American corporations, who needs Ben Laden?

    -- SysKoll

    P.S. Actually, from the moment Eisner started draping himself into patriotic self-righteousness, it sounded fishy. The guy is a patriot the way a televangelist is a believer.

    --

    --
    Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

  15. Unrealistic Assumptions by darkov · · Score: 2
    They may no longer be able, for example, to move music or video files around easily from one of their computers to another ... The digital videos they shot in 1999 may be unplayable on their desktop and laptop computers

    I don't think consumers will ever except this. Even if some politician who's been paid off by the industry tries to make it fly it will fail. The idea that your own liberties, such as managing the videos you shot, are limited just in case some greedy record comany or film studio might have their copyright voilated, is outrageous.

    If people (who are old enough) cast their mind back, copy protection on software largely disappeared in the eighties. It was just too much of a burden on people who didn't pirate software. And ultimately it didn't work.

    1. Re:Unrealistic Assumptions by slackster · · Score: 1

      While I hope not, I'm afraid many will accept it, unknowingly, because it might be sold merely as an innocuous format change. Ie. we accept that Betamax movies and 5-1/4" disks can't be read by virtually any (none?) new machines nowadays, but only because different formats are the standard now, for better or for worse. But we know that's the free market at work (mostly), not Constitution-trampling legislation. I'm worried that the average consumer won't know the difference, given enough marketing spin.

  16. Just a mating dance between elephants by sphealey · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is just the typical mating dance between elephants who are both mature, experienced, and tough. They will circle each other for a while, bellowing challenges, doing a bit of fighting to see who (if either) is dominant, who is more willing to fight, who is more determined. Then the mating will commence (i.e. a "compromise bill" will be introducted by Mr. Hollings) and the two large elephants, and their children, will continue to dominate the rest of the herd.

    I hope no one thinks that there is an actual chance that IBM or Microsoft will oppose the RIAA, MPAA, et al? Their long-term interests are identical; it is just dividing the spoils in the short term that is creating the appearance of conflict.

    sPh

    1. Re:Just a mating dance between elephants by gnovos · · Score: 2

      This is just the typical mating dance between elephants who are both mature, experienced, and tough. They will circle each other for a while, bellowing challenges, doing a bit of fighting to see who (if either) is dominant, who is more willing to fight, who is more determined. Then the mating will commence (i.e. a "compromise bill" will be introducted by Mr. Hollings) and the two large elephants, and their children, will continue to dominate the rest of the herd.

      Hee hee, this is a wonderful analogy... I just wonder which side is going to end up doing the boinking...

      --
      "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
  17. Wonder what the gun lobby thinks of this? by sensate_mass · · Score: 3, Insightful
    A lot of the lawmakers who'll be attempting to pass legislation requiring manditory hardware/os-based DRM currently support gun rights.

    What's the difference between "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." and "Hard drives don't commit piracy, people commit piracy." I'd like to think that limiting a person's ability to quickly and easily murder from a distance would be more important than limiting their ability to pirate a song. Does anyone here think we'll see laws that force gunmakers to limit what people can shoot at anytime soon?

    --
    --- Submission is feudal.
    1. Re:Wonder what the gun lobby thinks of this? by _dim · · Score: 1
      What's the difference between "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." and "Hard drives don't commit piracy, people commit piracy."

      Well, the difference is of course economical. According to your very powerful gun lobby, gun sales help the US economy, both by increasing weapons manufacturer's profits, and letting all criminal "scum" kill each other off efficiently. :)

      In contrast, the RIAA and MPAA keep telling us that piracy will be very bad for the US economy. ;)

      Guess who will be believed: the people with big $$$, as it always has been in the U$ of A, Land of the Not-Really-Free(TM).

  18. airwaves a "public resource"? what a quaint idea by Dr.+Awktagon · · Score: 2

    First, the Federal Communications Commission requires that broadcast television be sent "in the clear" -- in unencrypted form -- as a matter of public policy. The argument here is that broadcasters are custodians of a public resource -- the part of the broadcasting spectrum used for television, and need to make whatever they pump into that spectrum available to everyone.

    Oh man, the US gov talking about an entertainment medium as a "public resource"??? Am I the only one that sees a giant price tag on this? "Dear corporate America: for two million dollars, the airwaves will no longer be 'a public resource', but will instead be rebranded as 'an essential component to American innovation' and 'a vital tool in the fight against media piracy'.. and a law will be passed that says ALL content must be encrypted... any takers?"

    Remember kids, our US government consists of four parts: the executive, the judicial, the legislative, and the corporate.

  19. drawing a line by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 2
    We are in the process of drawing or having a line drawn. After it is drawn, it still will be moved to some extent.


    Look at guns, they are legal, but with many restrictions. They can be used for legal and illegal reasons. The same thing with computers, CD-Rs, casette tapes, pencils, etc. As with gun control people - you can't have people doing anything illegal with guns, if there are no guns, which restricts people using guns for legal reasons (and yes, I know that guns are not the greatest analogy, but I am taking license).


    What should be is go after people who break the law, not people who make tools that may be able to be used to break the law. Or ones who advertise tools for breaking laws (like the SPAMMER that advertises Never pay for a DVD again.

    1. Re:drawing a line by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      You've been getting that spam too? I keep getting that damn DVD spam, like once or twice a day, for the last two weeks.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  20. The sound of Inevitability... by Bonker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Do you hear that, Mister Andersen?"

    Listening to this argument is interesting, because you can see just how much these companies, the Tech giants on one side and the Distribution giants on the other continue to rail against what they call the 'Destruction of the Intellectual Property Industry', at least as what they said in the article.

    All I have to say is: The Sooner the Better.

    Seriously. These guys are fighting obsolescence. They were obsolete the second the first computer disk was digitally written. That was the shot that killed them. Not Napster... not Gnutella, not Morpheus. Not even DivX or DeCSS. What these industries do not know is that they've been doomed to slow death the second mankind invented digital storage. The ability to store and manipulate data in a digital format is one of those watershed inventions, like fire, the wheel, gunpowder, or the combustion engine. Too much has changed for the existing order to survive. Just like there are no wagon makers any more, there will be no 'content distributors' in the future.

    The fact that information can be reproduced endlessly, perfectly and easily by individuals, invalidates all the companies who sprung up in order to fill the gap that existed before digital information storage was possible.

    The record industry bitterly, bitterly regrets the invention of the CD. It's very nearly a perfect format for storing audio. The people who make CD's and hardware for and software for creating CD's sure as hell don't, though. Roxio, as well as others like Phillips and Magnavox all have commercials on TV that encourage their customers to make CD's full of 'free' MP3's.

    Yeah, right. As if. 'Free'. Sure....

    The same thing is going on between the distribution industry and the computer hardware industry. Sure, it's a good thing for hard drives and CPU's to be altered so that information cannot be copied on them. That makes them a lot more expensive to produce, however. Why should one industry suffer because another is obsolete? That's the thought going through the minds of the people at Maxtor, Western Digital, and Iomega. It's also the thought going through the minds of people at Intel and AMD.

    For the recording and entertainment industries to survive, they're very literally trying to cripple an entire industry with players from all around the globe. They're buying legislation right now because that's the only chance they have to force companies like ABit and Acer, who aren't even headquartered in the United States to tow the line.

    But it's already too late. The first step in any kind of revolution is civil disobedience. Sometimes that's enough. Sometimes the flow of ideas is just too powerful to allow the existing order to stay in power. Gandhi believed this when he led India against Britain, and he ended up being right.

    Even if the recording and entertainment industries manage to buy all the legislation they want, they're still faced with the daunting task of stopping the civil disobedience they've created. They'll very literally have to march into every home and take away non-DRM compliant computers and TVs.

    Here's a quick hint. The U.S. government tried to do this in the 30's with alcohol. It ended up being one of the single greatest failures of the government and has created criminal and social problems that live on today.

    So, the long and short is not how long you can hold on to your computers... It's how long the RIAA, MPAA and any other companies that make money by restricting the flow of information can hold on to life.

    Die, bitches, die...

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by paranoic · · Score: 1

      These guys were doomed once the cost of reproducting their product become insignicant compared to the price they were charging and means of reproducing that product became available to the masses.

    2. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by EAB · · Score: 1


      Here's a quick hint. The U.S. government tried to do this in the 30's with alcohol. It ended up being one of the single greatest failures of the government and has created criminal and social problems that live on today.

      I can see Ad campaigns in the next 10 years after all this fails stating 'Don't copy digital media, don't drink and drive. Do you know what format of media your children are watching?'

    3. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by FFFish · · Score: 2

      Good post. Can't resist following up on this, though: "Here's a quick hint. The U.S. government tried to do this in the 30's with alcohol. It ended up being one of the single greatest failures of the government and has created criminal and social problems that live on today."

      The US government is also trying to do this with (recreational, illegal) drugs, and is experiencing failure that is even worse than that of prohibition.

      However, it doesn't matter to them: the drug lords in the DEA are employed and wealthy, and will continue to protect themselves by insisting that this idiocy continue.

      The US government might very well attempt to control the entertainment media as well, and will experience the same high level of ineffectiveness. But that's not important: what is important is that the media lords will have money and power. Joe Common Citizen will take it up the ass with a broken glass bottle *yet again*, and will take it more or less willingly, just as he did for booze and pot.

      USA. Land of the free.

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    4. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US government might very well attempt to control the entertainment media as well, and will experience the same high level of ineffectiveness. But that's not important: what is important is that the media lords will have money and power. Joe Common Citizen will take it up the ass with a broken glass bottle *yet again*, and will take it more or less willingly, just as he did for booze and pot.


      Hey - at the start of Vernor Vinge's True Names the protagonist is, IIRC, raided by the govenrnment or something and is relieved after they leave that they didn't discover the hoard of very expensive storage and processing power squirrled away under his floorboards...


      Wow. I'd always thought that notion was a bit silly until now...

    5. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by dachshund · · Score: 1
      However, it doesn't matter to them: the drug lords in the DEA are employed and wealthy, and will continue to protect themselves by insisting that this idiocy continue.

      To go back to the issue at hand, the difference between this "war" and the drug war is that this one will only last as long as it's profitable.

      If "pirated" content becomes as widely available as street drugs, it's unlikely that the content industries will stay be able to stay in the business-- or at least, their power (which is a direct function of their cash flow) will wane significantly. And if Disney et al. do leave the business, there's really nothing left for the gov't to fight for.

      That could take a few years, though. And in the mean time, the collateral damage could be enormous. I'm not speaking just of the Dmitri Skylarovs to come, but of the entire American computer industry. There are many up and coming industrial nations who're just dying to take the mantle of industry leadership away from the US, and aren't willing to place Hollywood's profits ahead of that goal. If Eisner gets his way, pehaps American programmers will be applying for H1-B Visas to India sometime in the near future.

    6. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by axlrosen · · Score: 1

      Even if the recording and entertainment industries manage to buy all the legislation they want, they're still faced with the daunting task of stopping the civil disobedience they've created.

      "Civil disobedience"? Let's be honest here, people copy songs and movies because they like free stuff, not because of any larger societal implications. You're really comparing a music-swapping college kid to Gandhi? That kind of hyperbole isn't going to help your argument.

    7. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      If "pirated" content becomes as widely available as street drugs,

      I think you have been watching too much propadanda. It's a whole lot easier to find pirated "content", than it is to find illegal drugs.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    8. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by bludstone · · Score: 1

      "If "pirated" content becomes as widely available as street drugs, it's unlikely that the content industries will stay be able to stay in the business-"

      so, like any good buisness, they must adapt. provide something MORE then the bootleggers.

      how many divx rips have audio commentary, multiple subtitle tracks, tv commericals, spots, a booklet w/ interviews, a poster, and a nice pencilboard?

      the buisness' can survive if they adapt.

      --

      no .sig
    9. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by Bonker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Civil disobedience"? Let's be honest here, people copy songs and movies because they like free stuff, not because of any larger societal implications. You're really comparing a music-swapping college kid to Gandhi? That kind of hyperbole isn't going to help your argument.

      And do you really think all of India followed Ghandi because they wanted an end of British oppression and documented freedom?

      What the average Indian wanted was for things to be a little better than they were. He or she wanted to not have to pay a pointless tax to Great Britain or see all his opportunities dissapear at the whim of a European.

      This is the same thing. Sure, Joe Napster doesn't have a lot of high ideals other than getting the music he wants for free. What he does know is that his culture is being bought and sold, and that it might be nice if that wasn't the case.

      Keep fighting the good fight, file traders!

      --
      The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    10. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by haruharaharu · · Score: 2

      It's a whole lot easier to find pirated "content", than it is to find illegal drugs

      Really.

      If i want pirated DVDs or software I go to my local college campus. If i want illegal drugs, I go to ... errm, my local college campus.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    11. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by axlrosen · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I have a hard time seeing this as anything but pure BS, or maybe hopelessly naive idealism.

      Protesters in India, or the American South, demonstrated publicly and at great risk to themselves, with the only purpose of changing how society worked. They wanted a better society.

      Joe Napster downloads songs for free in his basement. He doesn't know or care that "his culture is being bought and sold", whatever that means. He was happy to by Limp Bizkit's last CD from a record company - he never gave it a second thought - but now he's downloading it because it's free. End of story.

      Trying to compare the two is bordering on offensive.

    12. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by FFFish · · Score: 2

      Mantle of industry leadership? In the tech industry?

      Funny. I thought most of the cool tech stuff was being developed and manufactured in the far East...

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    13. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by dachshund · · Score: 1
      the buisness' can survive if they adapt.

      But adapt they won't. Or, at least, it looks like they have no plans to at the current moment. And if they fail to adapt, and instead put their business at the mercy of this ridiculous "kneecap all computers to prevent piracy" initiative, we could end up with a seriously damaged Content industry and a decimated Computing industry.

    14. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by dachshund · · Score: 1
      Funny. I thought most of the cool tech stuff was being developed and manufactured in the far East...

      Sorry, the "tech faction" in the article referred specifically to the general purpose computing industry. I still had this phrase in mind when I posted-- I should have made it clearer what part of the tech industry I was talking about.

      As far as I know, America holds a major leadership role in that industry (Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Sun, SGI, HP, Apple, etc etc.)

    15. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by dachshund · · Score: 1
      I think you have been watching too much propadanda.

      Hmm. All I can think of is that time in 9th grade when our science teacher screened "Your Friend the Atom". I don't suppose that's what you're talking about, though :)

      It's a whole lot easier to find pirated "content", than it is to find illegal drugs.

      You're absolutely right, and I stand corrected.

      However, as a personal anecdote, my father visited me a few weeks back (he lives in a rural area, I live in NYC.) We were walking through Chinatown when he spotted copies of some silly Hollywood movie (still in theatres) being sold on the streetcorner. I see these things every day, so the notion of easy access to pirated movies is nothing special. He, on the other hand, was utterly amazed that he could buy this movie right on the street for $5 (and bought a copy just to see if it was what was advertised.)

      So yes, pirated materials are probably more common than drugs. But most average people like my dad just don't consider them as something they'd ever have an interest in-- not because they're uncommon, but because most people don't think high-quality knockoffs will ever be within easy reach. Now imagine all these people getting broadband connections, and you've explained the incredible popularity of Napster, and the explosion of video copying to come.

    16. Re:The sound of Inevitability... by subsolar2 · · Score: 1

      Here's a quick hint. The U.S. government tried to do this in the 30's with alcohol. It ended up being one of the single greatest failures of the government and has created criminal and social problems that live on today.

      There is one big difference today, and that the government is much more willing to use "police state" tactics. Look at the "War on Drugs" to see this in action ... we have a "War on Terrorism" now.


      The way things are now you will not be called a "hacker" you will be called an "information terrorist" or an "information anarchist" and people will assume you are GUILTY because I government does not procecute Innocent people.


      Things are gonna likely get bloodier than they are today before anybody notes, and people start caring.


      - subsolar

  21. Attack? by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am opposed to copy protection, but up to now I have always defended content makers' "right" to attempt to implement it. As far as I'm concerned, it simply reduces the value of a product, and then natural selection in the marketplace can decide whether or not it is worthwhile.

    But I really am starting to get pissed off at all these stealth attempts to move the status quo from "try it if you think it's worth it" to mandated incompatability. I am very much opposed to mandating incompatability, but I don't think I would resent the attempts to do this so much, if it weren't done in such secret. These cockroaches scatter whenever there's light cast upon them and media exposure has been shown to be nearly lethal to this kind of legislation. And that makes sense too, because, after all, this crap really is directly against the interests of the American People. Congresscritters are happy to sell us out, but they really hate getting caught while they are doing it (but interesting, they don't seem care if they get caught after-the-fact -- I still haven't figured out that part yet).

    DMCA wouldn't have passed if it had received news coverage instead of the Lewinsky scandal. Now we have the terrorist thing to distract the media, so this really is a good time to attack the American people again. They can get away with it, right now. But if it doesn't happen now, it'll happen later. More distractions can always be found. It never ends.

    And that bothers me. Sooner or later, the assholes will find a weakness and push us back a notch, and then another, and then another. We just have to let our guard down once. I don't know about you guys, but I get pretty fucking weary of this, and I know someday I will be taken unaware.

    What we need is to stop defending, and start attacking. Put them on the defensive for a change, reacting to us.

    And there's a way to do it. It's dirty and underhanded, because IMHO it really will infringe upon what I think hey're rights are. But they are assholes and never give up with stealth attacks, and if it has to come down to "them or us" situation, I'd rather be on the winning side. So fuck 'em.

    I think we need to outlaw copy protection. Something on the level of a constitutional ammendment (although that feels like inappropriate overkill) so that stealth attacks can't override it.

    I think most Americans would support it. I don't know how we'd get the representatives to vote on it (a democracy would make things a lot easier than our damned republic). But it might be worthy trying anyway.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Attack? by Winged+Cat · · Score: 2

      Ok, wild notion here, but...are you saying we should just get rid of copyright altogether? (Or, at least, severely reduce it - say, back to the 28 or so years maximum it was back around the USA's founding?)

    2. Re:Attack? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      are you saying we should just get rid of copyright altogether?

      No! I'm not talking about copyright. I'm talking about copy protection. Part of the whole problem is that the enemy is trying to combine these unrelated concepts.

      (Or, at least, severely reduce it - say, back to the 28 or so years maximum it was back around the USA's founding?

      Correcting the duration of copyrights may also be a good idea, but it's an orthogonal issue that should be dealt with seperately.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    3. Re:Attack? by arkanes · · Score: 1

      I'll say that. Copyright should be eliminated entirely, or limited to life of the creator(perhaps +3 years. Less than 10, certainly).
      If there was no copyright, there would be no content-distribution companies. This is not a bad thing. As people keep saying, we don't need them anymore. There would be no more Brittney Spears, no more boy bands, and no more RIAA. Art would be created by artists who enjoyed doing so, not bought and paid for by people who like to be able to profit for 3 generations off a single creation. Movies would still be around, altho not so much (blockbusters still make thier money well within the lifetime of the creator)

    4. Re:Attack? by Plebis · · Score: 0

      The constitution doesn't stand for much these days, so an amendment really wouldn't stop them from outlawing it again. Just look at gun laws.

      --
      "Dude, pounds are so metric, fuck that." - Noah
    5. Re:Attack? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Copyright should be eliminated entirely, or limited to life of the creator

      While limiting copyright to the lifetime of the creator does make sense in terms of the original purpose of copyright, surely you can see the downside of this, no? It creates an incentive for people to .. uh .. have accidents.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    6. Re:Attack? by arkanes · · Score: 1

      I don't think we REALLY need to worry too much about companies assassinating copyright holders :P And if we do, thats more a sign that we need to fix our society than that we need to keep copyright legislation :P. Anyway, any company thats gonna kill someone so they can publish his stuff will just kidnap and torture him until he signs the copyright over to them.

    7. Re:Attack? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially since people are living longer and longer these days. Some even predict that most of the people alive today will live to see disease and age-related degradation practically wiped out. Which means the only way people will die will be through accidents, assassinations, and the like.

  22. Because it's funny by CatherineCornelius · · Score: 1
    This all has the air of an attempt to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. General purpose computers simply cannot be outlawed--you can build a perfectly workable computer in a garage, as Wozniak and many others did. And programmers cannot be forcibly prevented from doing what they want to do--lock us up, and we'll still be programmers.

    I suppose I could get a little angry when I consider that now you can be locked up for publishing a computer program, but mostly it just makes me laugh. Because it's funny.

    1. Re:Because it's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > General purpose computers simply cannot be outlawed--you can build a perfectly workable computer in a garage

      You can also synthesize drugs in your garage. This doesn't stop the government from outlawing the sale of precursor components, er, I mean chemicals, and paraphenalia, and pursuing and prosecuting those who obtain and use them, does it?

      The government has demonstrated on numerous occasions the willingness to outlaw things that don't seem rationally outlawable, if appropriately pressured.

      This really could happen, folks, and IMHO more easily than you might imagine.

  23. A bit Alarmist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While the article is generally well written, my impression is that the essay is generally just an alarmist piece. There are for sure some things to be concerned about in the future of technology and a lot of the industries in entertainment worry about the change, as they picture the entire future as a 'worst case scenario'. (IMHO, planning on the basis of a WCS means a good business model). Here are the things that come to my mind, in order:

    1) My parents have difficulty just checking email, let alone going out and searching for internet music. While there is a whole generation of people growing up with computers and seeing the internet as a distribution channel for free music, there remains quite a large number of people who don't have the level of skill to get free music. 10 years in technology is eternity: Just look at what was around 10 years ago! By the time we reach 2010, many of these companies will have a shift of people in thier management that will understand that they can't fear the future, they must embrace it.

    2) The racket around VCRs. I'm not a legal person, or even a historian, but if I recall correctly: there were many legal challenges by the same groups to outlaw VCRs. These legal challenges were not so much thwarted by the lawmakers (who may get paid handsomely by the industry), but rather by the large amount of the populace that rose up and said "We want our rights to record!" The power of the people is great, even if it seems dormant most of the time.

    3) Ebooks. Yesterday on NPR, there was a short piece on the failure of Ebooks. While many people believe that it just isn't the time for ebooks yet, many ebook publishers are going out of business. I think there were many reasons for the failures around this technology, but I think the first and foremost was: technology. Each ebook manufacturer used something different, so buying one brand of ebook meant that you couldn't read books from other publishers! You don't see that sort of problem with paperbacks. With all these competing technologies for Content Protection, I don't think that MS DRM will win out, especially with groups of people who couldn't use the technology (can we say Linux?).

    All in all, I really don't believe people will sit around and accept the fact that they won't be able to 'buy' music anymore (or any other type of entertainment), despite the intentions of many of these companies to have strict control over content.

    As a personal hope, I always find myself hoping that MS will win. Why? Because those people who did nothing to preserve their rights of choice deserve no choice at all. Those of us who make our own decisions will continue to use Linux: just as those who enjoy Macs will continue to do so. It may be a niche market, but it will be our market.

    [ if you don't like what I've written, oh well. This is my opinion after all, not yours. ]

    1. Re:A bit Alarmist by sulli · · Score: 1

      You're right. Ebooks failed, nobody uses ATRAC or SDMI, yet project Gutenberg and MP3 are doing just fine. No reason to panic.

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
  24. Finance vultures by Pussy+Is+Money · · Score: 0

    You don't cheer for anyone here. You just take the money that the private sector is pouring into what started out as a military-academic network, and run. It's rather too late for any effective resistance, and perhaps resistance is not what is needed at this time at all. We (or, you, rather) lost our opportunity when we bought the hype and ran up the debts. Now that payback time has come, the vultures from finance are in charge again, and we are left bickering petty change. All of this will become just a minor footnote in the history of what they will call the "Digital Media Revolution". There will never have been an actual computer revolution.

    --
    Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
  25. The pandora box is open... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And nobody can't close it...
    The tech-savvy know how to build almost anything... and there isn't a way to close it down... as for content management... i would like to see that inside a corporation... ha... sorry i can't get your information. I can't copy it to a safe place... no backup available... call another day...

  26. The real battle by Veteran · · Score: 2
    While the tech and content factions described in the article are fighting - no one is listening to the other side of the battle; almost no one even knows the other side exists.

    Who is on the other side? The content producers (artists) and the listeners/watchers. Neither the tech side nor the 'content' side want the artists or the audience to have any say in the issue.

    Doubtless defenders of the current status quo will spout blather about "Valid contracts" with the artists or how the record companies provide promotion and advertising etc. as excuses for the predatory behavior of companies toward actual content providers. But before you start writing posts like that I am going to propose a shame test: for the sake of argument assume that there really is a God, and that you are going to have to defend your statements in front of Him at your judgment someday. Do you think you could get away with the "valid contract" claim when you know larceny is in your heart? I always apply that shame test to what I have to say - if you don't do it then you are insincere - a troll at best, or evil at the worst.

    Why doesn't the tech faction want to see the artist and audience side heard? The answer is that tech companies do the same things to engineers and programmers that recording companies do to artists, and neither faction wants people to be paid what they are actually worth.

    Programmers, artists, engineers and the audience to our works belong on one side of the argument along with sincere and honest businessmen (I have met a few; they do exist). On the other side are all the greedy thieves: Mega corps and the RIAA.

    By the way -for all of you Libertarians; the standard for a contract ought to be right and wrong, not "what I can get away with". If a contract is not really equally benefiting both sides it is a fraud.

  27. Universal VP speaks from where the sun don't shine by mttlg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Matthew Gerson, the vice president for public policy at Vivendi Universal S.A., which produces and sells both music (Universal Music Group) and movies (Universal Studios, Inc.), is quick to dispute the prediction that the music companies face cottage-industry status. "We know that if we build a safe, consumer friendly site that has all the 'bells and whistles' and features that music fans want, it will flourish. My hunch is that fans will have no trouble paying for the music that they love, and compensating the artists who bring it to them -- established stars as well as the new voices the labels introduce year after year."

    Um, I don't know where to start... Let's see, "safe, consumer friendly site," isn't that a contradiction? I have a feeling that "all the 'bells and whistles' and features that music fans want" doesn't include crippled CDs, but Universal seems to like that idea... Sure, "fans will have no trouble paying for the music that they love," but that assumes that you produce that music and not the usual garbage. Lots of people are interested in "compensating the artists who bring it to them," which is why they don't want to deal with the major labels. As for "the new voices the labels introduce year after year," exactly which ones are these? They all look and sound the same to me...

  28. Eisner's take on computers by mttlg · · Score: 2

    This is precisely what Disney CEO Michael Eisner, in a speech to Congress in summer of 2000, was referring to when he warned of "the perilous irony of the digital age." Eisner's statement of the problem is shared by virtually everybody in the movie industry: "Just as computers make it possible to create remarkably pristine images, they also make it possible to make remarkably pristine copies."

    Then perhaps there is no longer enough value in the "making and copying remarkably pristine images" business to sustain so many huge companies. Either make your content something people want to pay for, or find another business strategy. People tend to dislike having the government tell them what to do in the privacy of their own homes, how do you think they will feel about Disney doing it instead?

    1. Re:Eisner's take on computers by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1
      This is precisely what Disney CEO Michael Eisner, in a speech to Congress in summer of 2000, was referring to when he warned of "the perilous irony of the digital age."

      I don't know about you guys, this this an awful lot like another "This is what x was referring to when he warned of y" statement...

      Let x = Truman, let y = Rise of the Industrial/Military Complex.

      Tatsujin

  29. A bleak future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Back in the nineties, when we bought a movie on video, your grandma and me could watch it as many times as we wanted, without paying for it again each time. We could pause it to get up and get a soda, and we could rewind it if we missed something and it didn't cost no extra to do that."

    "Wow, gramps. You mean there were no coin slots on TVs back then?"

    "That's right. And if the movie was a dud, we could sell the tape at a garage sale, or give it to a friend, or even just throw it in the trash."

    "Weren't you afraid you'd get arrested, grandpa?"

    "They didn't arrest people for those things back then, boy. Didn't need no stinking TV license, heck, nobody didn't even have to own a TV if they didn't want to."

    "When grandma gets out of prison for muting commercials, can she tell us some stories about the old days too?"

    1. Re:A bleak future by kingosric · · Score: 1

      Didn't need no stinking TV license Um, us UKians *do* need a TV licence. I only wish there was a better test than "Can you afford it" to get one....

  30. Requisite car analogy by Rand+Race · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In the 19th century my family made quite a good living as wainwrights, they made wagons. I imagine thaey felt much like the content industry does now when the automobile was invented. But guess what? They divested from wagons and invested in autos, they didn't try to make cars illegal.


    Technology giveth, there was no real music industry until the phonograph was invented, and technology taketh away. Limiting technology in favor of business is shortsited, ill founded, anti-capitalistic, and doomed to fail.

    --
    Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
  31. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
    > [Content Faction: Tens of billions in revenue]
    > [Tech Faction: Hundreds of billions, maybe a trillion, in revenue]

    I think we'd all agree that government operates by the Golden Rule: Those that have the gold, make the rules. But if we truly live in a "one dollar, one vote" society, why the fsck is anyone in Congress listening to the Content Faction at all? Do Content Faction lobbyists hire better hookers, with cocaine instead of silicone in their tits?

    > So even from a strictly financial point, SSSCA does not make any sense. Eisner is a fraud. He is a threat to the IT industry, which produced far more jobs, wealth and well-being than any other industry since WWII.
    >
    > With business executives like that at the head of American corporations, who needs bin Laden?

    I thought my "Hollywood hookers and better coke" crack was good, but I think you've got the better soundbite, by far.

    Rack up the dollar cost of the WTC disaster. (Conservatively $100B), and compare it to the dollar cost to the Tech Faction if the Content Faction gets its way, and discover that a mere 10-15% "hit" in Tech Faction revenues is the equivalent of a WTC attack when it comes to GDP. The Eisner-Valenti-Rosen triumvirate is a greater threat to the economy than bin Laden ever was.

    I think we need to push three talking points:

    • The memes "Content Faction" and "Technology Faction". Portraying Hollywood as a "faction", rather than an "industry" makes it clear that there are opposing interests here.
    • The fact that tech is at least an order of magnitude larger - in jobs, revenues, profits, and taxes remitted to the government - than the Content Faction.
    When you write your Congresscritter, you can call them "industries" instead of "factions". And instead of asking him which industry is likely to give him the most campaign dollars over the next 30 years, ask him which industry is most likely to provide the most jobs for his constituents. He'll do the campaign contribution math by himself, and you've pointed out there's a compelling "it's the economy, stupid" excuse his opponent can use against him, should he side against the Tech Faction.

    When you talk to your co-workers, write letters to the editor, or post to weblogs, feel free to be honest - call 'em Factions, and ask the campaign contribution question. The readers will do the "Hollywood must have better hookers, if my Congresscritter supports the Hollywood faction, he must be corrupt" math by themselves, and vote accordingly.

  32. The economic imperatives ... by LL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The golden rule used to be "whoever has the gold makes the rule" but I would observe from current machinations the golden collorary "he who writes the rules, defines the gold".

    The reason ... think what the internet does .. every single piece of information whether written in the past or immediate future (think trailers) is now immediately available. It's like a thirsty man in a desert being swept away by a flash flood. All the historical economic models based on a content/distribution model is now completely invalidated. Historically media studios could release stuff at different price/time points (movies, videos, cable reruns, etc) with the nice kicker that a popular franchise can be remastered with relatively little marginal cost.

    Now suddenly anyone (with a modicum of hacker skill) can bypass their time/space-controls (cough DVD-region-coding), the TiVo is just one small example. Suddenly all their media libraries is implicity devalued as they can't withdraw "obsolescent" titles. The First Sale doctrine means that anyone can resell their "original" copy which creates competition for their newest overhyped gee-whiz production. Hence their incentive, nay long-term economic survival, in pushing Digital Rights Managment (aka service selectivity/variability) by stealth (submarine legislation) or by wealth (trial by litigation).

    Of course, they don't always have much of a clue (cough*CueCat*cough) so they have to rely on the tech experts to provide them with the tools to control/segment the entertainment market. Which means that unless you have a tech department under your belt like AOL, they are held over the barrel by the likes of Microsoft who have their own ambitions of being the broadband toll-keepers.

    Economics alway always been about scarcity (whoever dies with the biggest toys wins) but the internet inverts all that into a surplus. The "gift culture" that ESR mentions is thus anathema to any self-respecting aspiring monopolist as infinite replication/distribution of information-based products limits their market of gullible fools.

    It will be an interesting decade as all these economic forces resolve themselves.

    LL

    1. Re:The economic imperatives ... by solferino · · Score: 1

      "Economics [has] always been about scarcity"

      yes, agreed - and now that we live in a world where most scarcities need not exist, industrial inertia (industrial revolution inertia) results in most corporate manuevering having th function of manufacturing scarcity - (good name for a book i think)
  33. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Funny
    > I think we need to push three talking points: [two points listed]

    Of course, there are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.

  34. How much does DRM cost the 'consumer'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What I find amazing about all of this is that noone is talking about how much we are expected to spend to participate in our on-line culture.

    Radio is free (for now) but I'd have to get a $ub$cription to listen to satellite XM broadcasts. Likewise, I'll need a subscription to be able to listen to music on-line, and I'll need a high-bandwidth connection to be able to download it all...

    How much is all this going to cost me? Digital Cable $50/month, Cable/DSL Internet $50/month, XM subscription $10/month, On-line music $10/month.

    I'm already up to $120/month and I haven't even started talking about what my kids want/need... or how much my cost of living has increased because I have to live in an urban area where these services are offered...

    How much money are we talking about, and how many people, realistically, can afford this ?

    1. Re:How much does DRM cost the 'consumer'? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Nobody "expects" you to spend anything, nobody requires you to be part of any culture.

      I can't even begin to address how ignorant that whole post was.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:How much does DRM cost the 'consumer'? by Gonarat · · Score: 1

      That post was not ignorant at all -- one can do without those things and survive, but not everyone wants to live an isolated life. (Even if I did, my wife and daughter would have something to say about that. What the post was about is how the world is going. Cable/Satellite is $40/$80 per month (depending on options), DSL/Cable modem access is $40/$50 dollars/month, XFM is $10/month, pressplay, etc....


      At some point, the nickel and dimeing for subscriptions is going to exhaust the budget. At that point, one will have to prioritize and cut back and /or eliminate what is purchased since unless you have the income of a Bill Gates, it will be impossible to have it all.


      IMHO this is not the best time for DRM companies to press for subscription models. The economy is a already down, consumer debt is high (lower interest rates may ease the pressure slightly, but the debt is still there), and companies are laying off. If we go into a deep recession (or a depression) then the DRM battle won't matter -- Joe Consumer will have his hands full just providing food and shelter. The Entertainment costs will be the first to go.

      --
      Beware of Sleestak
  35. Re:airwaves a "public resource"? what a quaint ide by Vainglorious+Coward · · Score: 1
    The argument here is that broadcasters are custodians of a public resource -- the part of the broadcasting spectrum used for television, and need to make whatever they pump into that spectrum available to everyone.

    If this were really true, how come the company that took these public resources and made them more widely available still was so summarily shut down?

    --
    My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
  36. There is more involved than they realize! by 3seas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The real issues at hand are far more reaching than copyrights. The Digital Media functionality that computers provides all of us with most certainly goes way beyond the copyright dimension.

    They may not realize it yet, but eventually will have no other choice but to recoignize that the "CANNOT" base intellectual property laws will have to be changed to be "CAN" based.

    I'm all for artists, creators, those who produce additional productive and pleasure values to be recognized and rewarded. For such carrots is how we teach our children to help make our society a better place of all of us to enjoy.

    But the bottom line is to get people to want to recognize and reward those who do good. And the only way that is going to happen is change the laws so as to motivate and inspire people to do so.

    Lawrence Lessig pointed out to me that there are two parts to dealing with Intellectual Property. The first part I believe was in reference to beng granted IP rights as a creator, the second part being liability law. I suppose this is the part in most need of changing into "asset" law.

    comments?

    maybe see other slashdot posts by your truely?

    1. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by axlrosen · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I completely didn't understand your post. What exactly are the other implications besides copyright that you're talking about? What new laws will help reward artists?

      I don't like illegal copying, but I also don't like the new measures being proposed to stop it. I don't see a good way out of this conflict. I don't see any good way for artists to get paid for their work if copyright goes away, at least in the common case. Britney Spears will make a fine living from her concerts, but how will most musicians, writers, coders, etc. make a living? The "electronic tip jar" hasn't worked very well, as we've seen.

    2. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2
      What exactly are the other implications besides copyright that you're talking about? What new laws will help reward artists?
      Hmm, let's see:

      More at stake: the power to use technology you purchase in an way you see fit (allowing people to directly maximize their experience of several important individual liberties, not least of which is the freedom of speech).

      What new laws will help reward artists: Gee, how about a tax credit for payment to artists and scientists?

      --

    3. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by axlrosen · · Score: 1

      Gee, how about a tax credit for payment to artists and scientists?

      That sounds workable. All artists become government-supported? Is there a board that somehow "qualifies" a million artists? Or can I decide whether or not I'm an artist, and get the money?

      (I assume that you mean some sort of salary or welfare-type system for artists. A tax credit won't really help - if your works are being copied for free, you won't be paying much in the way of taxes to get a credit on.)

      (Also, why scientists?)

    4. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2

      No, I meant direct tax credits to people who give money to artists, just as exists for donations to political campaigns. I.e., reward consumers for rewarding artists. That way the govt. doesn't have to get involved with the process of "qualifying" artists. I suppose if they needed some proof for tax evasion prevention, a system of registering artistic works (similar to the patent offic -- copyright #'s or some such) could exist so you could itemize the particular works you gave $$ for.

      --

    5. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by 3seas · · Score: 2

      an example of besides copyrights is .... well now that software is patentable [rolls eyes] but even beyond this you have to consider what the essence of computers and computing really is. They be machines of abstraction manipulation and translation.

      Input -} Processing -} Output

      As a creative person, an artist, an inventor, etc.. what tools do I use to do such work? But to build upon what others have done before me. Who was it that said something like "I stand high because I stand on the shoulder of giants before me"?

      There are many ways which such a machine of abstraction manipulation and translations can be applied to benefit mankind and society. Perhaps the most valuable is that of Human to Human Translation, but such a translation machine inherently is also capable of human to machine translation, and not just from the current programming language level, but from more what we call natural human languages (though I don't recall being born understanding english and there are those who say I still don't have it down) to machine understood programming. (see my comments in the "The Internet Shifts East" slashdot article.)

      Of course to be able to program a computer using human language, perhaps even spoken (voice to text "translation") you will eventually get to the programming level of what it would take to programme a holodeck composed in details down to the dirt under a holodeck character fingernail (if that be so relative) to the furniture, scenery, settings, interactions (character action/reaction), etc.. within the holodeck experience. All of which is or will be a programme created from composition of elements from a database created by as many as can and will create it.

      Now imagine where all the content on the internet come from today, even here, this post is content. The resources for content is as limitless as there are creators of such content. From direct Content business like Time Warner to the Furniture designer and builder of that simply makes an image of their work available on their web site, or perhaps the 3D file of a kitchen from a cabinet maker or Car manufacture 3D automobile file. Keeping in mind what would make for a realistice virtual reality is to be able to use images and details of hat you find in real life.

      Now imagine what it would be like to try and gather copyright licenses for for all the element you have used in the creation of a holodeck program. And all this generated from words of instructions you have spoken into the computer.

      Of course the "Abstraction manipulation machinery" of computer continues to go beyond even this. Into medicine development, fabrication processes, etc. as we are all aware of even currently, but with far greater and wider user/consumer population access for individuals to control and create their work.

      All of this can't happen so easily with current "Cannot" based laws. The Can based laws are what we need to create, develope and to have such goals as to inspire people to increase assets rather than "get away with theift".

      I know it sounds so alien or foriegn, but that is because we have been practicing "Cannot" based IP laws for so long. So the first step is to know that we are the ones who make up the laws and as such can make them better, change them to work in accord to the creative nature of the humans we are, rather than the non-productive humans the "Cannot based Laws" want us to be restricted to. (to feed the elite? who are? Read the last paragraph or two of the article slashdot points to!)

    6. Re:There is more involved than they realize! by 3seas · · Score: 1

      Here's a recent slashdot Virtual Reality article to make what I've said above a bit more ........Real????

  37. Who the governament is protecting? by inerte · · Score: 1

    We? Okay, so we must continue trading. Kazaa is right about they can't shutdown clients. Even if they do, Gnutella, Freenet etc.. will survive.

    Why am I on Morpheus? Because it has 500.000 users. The minute it shuts down, other p2p protocol will get these users. And this time many people will have learned their lesson.. Don't go p2p'ing if it has a company backing up almost everything.

    That's why I like gnutella. Sadly it doesn't have all the users. BUT IT'S UNSTOPPABLE. 500.000 from Kazaa/Morpheus/Grokster users, please come to Gnutella. Nobody will ever shutdown your ability to trade files.

    BUT, they might try to 'shutdown' your RIGHT to trade files, correct? Yes, that's what they are trying to do. But hey, how many people CAN share files in the world? Anyone connected on the internet? Okay... how much does this mean nowadays, 500 million? Maybe more? None can put this amount of people on jail, na, nothing can be done.

    Warez sites are easier to shutdown. Pretty much because you have one tunnel where data flows. With millions of tunnels, bam! Impossible.

    So, even our 'right' to share is secured somehow (based on 'they can't prosecute every body premise'). Fine, so another way is to make the hardware in a way that it doesn't allow file sharing.

    So here goes what I think everyone should do. Tell everyone you know this. DO NOT buy these hardware. It's that simple. Hardware is a lot harder to make them software. So, you rarely will see 'pirated' hardware that allows file sharing. It's an enormous task, and this yes, the governament/RIAA/companies/ has the resource to stop.

    Just don't buy the hardware when it comes. Or if contains a return policy (like the soon to be released cds in America), spend your whole bank account and savings on it and ask for the money back. If, I don't know, 5000 people do this, the company will go bankrupt.

    It's a matter of value. Who cares what the governament and the companies want? What matters is what the people want.

    Our laws are just this, common sense. If we stick to the value that trading files should become the common sense, there's nothing to do.

    Just don't buy the hardware, remember.

    PS: For developers and content producers. I feel sorry in a way for you. You're are not going to get money now from the usual way (produce, distribute, sell, royalties, etc..)

    And don't ask me how to make money too when your new cd can be traded and none is going to buy it. I honestly don't know, but hey, I sincerely hope you find a way.

  38. Digital Rights in computers could be a good thing. by stoicfaux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If musicians had a good way to deliver their music/art/books/etc directly to the consumer, what need would they have of the big[1] distribution companies?

    Instead the authors would need:
    a) server hosting
    b) advertising
    c) agents who could get them airplay and/or tour venues

    and would no longer need
    d) to press CDs, DVDs, etc.
    e) select the least painful contract from a handful of distrubutors

    This would:
    -reduce costs- by cutting out the middleman/distributor.
    -increase competition- cheaper "distribution" costs would allow more artists to compete for your money.
    -decrease pollution- no need to burn fuel for cd making factories, delivery trucks
    -increase greenspace- no more need for brick and mortar stores
    -shift jobs from music retail stores and fat cat distributors[1] to high tech server hosting companies and slimy advertising firms. (In other words they would have to get "real" jobs.) ;-)

    [1] aka the Evil Greedy Screw the Consumers Coporations

  39. Local scene by gurensan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I don't know what to make of this. Any way they handle this we're screwed. The only way I think this problem will go away is to stop paying for big name albums and movies entirely. When the revenue stream dries up, lawyers tend to wither and blow away.

    The problem with this is that there are a lot of extremely gifted artists and musician who would be left out in the cold. Bands like Metallica already have more money than God and can easily afford to set up their own distribution channels, so the little guys are the only people who would be hurt by it.

    What to do about it? Support yout local music/film making/Art scene like you support your local LUG. When they get the support they need locally, they don't need to go to LA to get it and it's only a matter of time before this kind of stupidity and personal rights violation goes away permanently.

    --
    You are all fartheads.
  40. What about the reverse? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    It seemed like most of those who thought Napster was in the Constitution also opposed gun ownership, at least on /. They thought it was more important to be able to copy music than to defend themselves.

  41. Paying for music by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2

    Just on the note of music here, I know that what I want when I buy a CD or an MP3 online, besides the music, is for the author to be compensated appropriately. I think it would be a great public service to foce music companies and their ilk to publish how much of a CD sale goes back to the authors (whether to pay their debts or in their pockets) and how much is kept by the record company.

    --
    - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  42. Forgets to Mention by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The writer forgets to mention that this would happen only in the U.S.
    The rest of the world would happily chug along without these wild restrictions on what people can do with their computers.
    The irony of it is that innovation is a product of the freedom to think and do whatever you want with the means at your disposal. Today, the U.S. is the best place for it.
    The minute these limitations are put into place, the U.S. can kiss its technological supremacy goodbye. The bleeding edge will move elsewhere.

  43. I think you have the wrong idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's just not intuitive to label artists that way. I would say the record companies have the "comparative advantage" in selling the music. Whether that advantange is greatly diminished thru technology(internet) or greater access to knowledge is debatable. Artists have to be "found" and promoted in the old days. Now music can be shared and words of mouth spreads electronically.

    Contracting the music distribution, yes, but artists aren't workers in a firm.

  44. suing the record companies by Alien54 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There was this blurb recently:

    http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/1348770p-14 18333c.html

    Elton John, No Doubt and the Eagles are among a group of musicians who will perform at five benefit concerts the night before the Grammy Awards telecast to raise money for a legislative fight against the record industry. [...] "It's about time for artists to take control of their work and how it is presented to our fans," said Dexter Holland of the band Offspring, which will perform as part of the effort. [...] The tentative lineup is Billy Joel, Sheryl Crow, the Eagles, Dixie Chicks and Stevie Nicks at the Forum in Inglewood; Offspring, No Doubt, Weezer at the Long Beach Convention Center; Ozzy Osborne at the Los Angeles Sports Arena; rhythm and blues acts to be announced at the Universal Amphitheatre; and country artists at an undetermined fifth site.

    Of course, the record companies are denying any allegations.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  45. Well... by NiftyNews · · Score: 1

    "how consumers are going to be taking it in the *** no matter who wins"

    That all depends on how smart the consumer is. When pushed, consumers split into 4 groups:
    1) Give in and accept it
    2) Find a new option
    3) Do without
    4) Acquire it with less than legal means.

    I don't think most of the people reading /. "are going to be taking it in the ***" anytime soon.

  46. History repeats itself by argoff · · Score: 2

    In the 1850's, even many of the factory leaders in the north supported laws that contained slavery to the south, and exported them back from the north. But no matter what happened the factory model of business was incompatable with the plantation model. With factories, a mobile workforce was essential - but with plantations it was a nightmare. Having a society that was compatable with both was going to be impossible.

    All these people were rich business men, had close relations, and a lot of cross investment. However, inspite of all the things that bound them together - the forces that tore them apart were even greater. Today this manifests itself in the Content model and the Tech model. The content model can not be successfull without placing significant profit limitations on the tech model or visa versa. Contention will boil over until we finally decide that copyrights are bad and rid ourselves of them.

    Moral, don't be one of those poor fools who thought that the slave states could peacefully get along with the free states. Those people just didn't get it.

  47. Re:airwaves a "public resource"? what a quaint ide by GigsVT · · Score: 1

    It's not unprecedented anyway, the FCC allows satellite broadcasts to be encrypted. It's the same airwaves, only different frequencies.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  48. you forgot - by EnderWiggnz · · Score: 1
    they also provide a method to have the populace keep the government in check through the threat of an armed rebellion.


    which is the _last_ line of defense against government totalitarianism.

    --
    ... hi bingo ...
  49. Re:airwaves a "public resource"? what a quaint ide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HINT: figure out what the words "airwaves" and "broadcasting spectrum" mean. It has something to do with electromagnetic radiation. (Oooh, that's so 1930's, I know.)

  50. I can see my future.... by Mir322 · · Score: 1

    I think i'm going to be moving to Eastern Europe..maybe russia... what's china like this time of year ? or maybe the cayman islands.. ? or.. what about switzerland?

    --
    "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
  51. power grab by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    Still, maybe citizens would say they're willing to give up "general-purpose" computers and willing to use, instead, systems designed to prevent them from engaging in willy-nilly copying, if that is the price you have to pay for compelling music and movies and television over the Internet.. That is, maybe they'd say so if you asked them. But right now, nobody's asking.

    Except that we would eventually wind up with trash, and it because a dwinding spiral of quality. paying more and more for trash.

    Hopefully it will wind up with people just turning it all off. (right!)

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  52. Re:Digital Rights in computers could be a good thi by nixterino · · Score: 1

    Working for a "slimy advertising firm" is a real job?

  53. I'm not Anon. Coward! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone talks about technology and its implications. I see it as Universal and the sorts protecting the rights of artists. How do you think people in this field strive for success? Technology doesn't change the fundamental way business works. The liberal view is some no-name artist will rise to the top with the help with a computer, software, and broadband internet. It is of utter importance to protect the rights of artists' content. Those guys at Universal, albeit flawed and profit-seeking, represents them. Who will? You want another conglomerate to rise and slowly evolve into the same function? It's capitalism.

    There are audiophiles who have expensive systems and music that they buy for the more-pristine quality, videophiles who supports the DVD industry, despite the whole pirating behavior on the internet. It's the whole spectrum. This forum is like the geeks in high school who seeks redemption from underrepresentation, overprotecting rights of Napster and similar while burning movie ISO's for their own viewing.

  54. I dealt with it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I sent a few of them to the MPAA.

  55. They'd say "wrong analogy" by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2
    Those lawmakers would probably say that the gun/general-purpose-computer-plus-Internet analogy is incorrect and that the correct analogy is something along the lines of:
    gun : nuclear device :: VCR : general purpose computer + broadband
    I.e., while they advocate ownership rights of average citizens to a device whose beneficial uses are as broad as hunting, securing one's home, and contributing to the common defense -- and whose harmful uses are at worst the murder of a handful of people (before the police or some off-duty postman blow you away), they would advocate strict government control of a device whose benefits are undisputed, but who harmful effects can change the face of the world (their logic on all counts, not mine).
    --

  56. soon to be an all powerful USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully it dosen't come to that any time soon, but the way people and the government are acting about security against terrorisim I fear this may be soon. The Media and the stupid people who believe them think that giving up rights will stop terrorisim; wow, are they in for a suprise! If we aren't more careful we will have a totalitarian government, and that is not a good thing. People need to learn that patriotisim isn't buying a flag sticker and putting it in your car, it means helping your country and make sure it dosen't make any stupid mistakes.

    DON'T GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS TO THESE FOOLS CALLED THE MEDIA

    1. Re:soon to be an all powerful USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whatever you do,

      DON'T GIVE UP YOUR THOUGHT TO THE EXTREAM LEFT.

      these fools want to take away your ability to think, thereby creating an army of drones to smash windows and protest causes that any sane person would laugh off.

  57. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by curunir · · Score: 1

    Ummm...never underestimate the governments interest in preserving a channel to the attention of its citizens. Think of how much Hollywood can affect the opinions of the populus (especially in this country, but to a lesser extent all over the rest of the world), and you realize the incentive to be strongly allied with the "Content Faction."

    And, should anyone in congress forget this fact, they need only run down to the local Blockbuster and rent a copy of "Gladiator" (the one with Russell Crowe, not Cuba Gooding Jr):

    (Paraphrasing)"Rome is the mob. Keep them entertained and you control Rome."

    --
    "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
  58. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2
    But of course, these considerations do not compute in the dollar terms that are the only things filtering through your average executive's thick ears (not to mention many Congresscritters).

    But, you have to understand that the media that these players represent is even more critical to Congressmen than the money they can get from the tech side. What happens if a Congressman finds it difficult to buy air time during the next election cycle? He won't be a Congressman for long. And, although the Internet has grown as an alternative information distribution medium, it can't make up for that kind of lack of access.

    Another thing to remember is that the main thing that leaders need to provide are bread and circuses. You can trade off a fairly good amount of bread to have a good circus before the rubes revolt. And this is an especially tasty tradeoff if you happen to get to be head clown.

    In short, never, ever assume that a politician will make a decision based solely on economic issues. In this situation, the issue hits at the heart of any politician's decision-making calculus - getting elected.

    --
    That is all.
  59. "Content Is Not King" by A. Odlyzko by GrumpyOldManager · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the users we support has studied this subject in some detail. Check our his article at
    http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue6_2/odlyzko/

  60. Computers as weapons by einhverfr · · Score: 2

    One could also argue that the right to bear arms already applies to computers. Since they Can be used as a weapon, people have a constitutional right to have them.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't supercomputers considered munitions under export laws? As was until recently encryption above 56-bit?

    On a side note, I am not a complete fan of Richard Stallman but I thought his short story, "The Right to Read" was very thought-provoking and moving. I have been sending it to various microsofties I know ;)

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    1. Re:Computers as weapons by mamba-mamba · · Score: 1

      Heh, heh.

      If you have no objection, I am going to steal your sig. I won't actually use it as my sig, but I am going to repeat it every opportunity I get.

      MM
      --

      --
      By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
    2. Re:Computers as weapons by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      use my sig all you want. I will probably be changing it soon anyway ;)

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    3. Re:Computers as weapons by satanami69 · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of the G4

      --
      I really hate Dan Patrick.
  61. Just one question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without, for a millisecond, defending the record companies:

    Some solution must be found so that creative/performing artists can be paid for their recorded/filmed work. A great song, a great symphony, a great movie might only happen once.

    Assuming that, say, musicians should simply tour more, please remember that a goodly number of musicians don't perform live. One prominent example was, of course, the Beatles, post '66, when they did their best work, imo. There are lots more.

    It is a tremendous risk to be an artist and good art is rare. Most of us labor in obscurity and sacrifice a considerable amount of material comfort for our art. If, somehow, we get lucky and actually make art that someone wants to hear/see/experience, we deserve compensation for it.

    Any realistic ideas on how we're going to be paid?

    A Composer

  62. True--3rd faction, part of an obsolete industry by WebCowboy · · Score: 2

    I agree what "distribution" is a more appropriate term, since large media companies add absolutely no value to the artist's works besides marketing and disseminating it. Whatever you call it, it is an obsolete industry.

    What this faction is doing is following their preservation instincts. Executives want to keep their jobs and will try ALL avenues to do so. It seems to me that the biggest efforts put into mandated DRM benefit neither the actual content creator nor the consumer--the consumer suffers for not being allowed to take full advantage of technology, and the content creator (artist) cannot fully and freely distribute their works.

    The alternate scenario to the one in the article would be that what happened to the typewriter industry is what will happen to the big media companies. With the advent of computers, the market for typewriters collapsed. Today, a relative handful of typewriters are made compared with 20 years ago--many companies went under and jobs were lost, but the additional benefits broght by the computer far exceeded the loss of the typewriter industry. THAT is what I hope happens with big media companies. They have become irrelevant because of technological progress. The government didn't legislate laser printers for PCs out of existence in order to protect typewriter companies and the thought of doing so would be considered ridiculous, so whay should the members of the MPAA be afforded such protection? The world didn't end because 90% of typewriter makers disappeared, and it wont if/when big media distributers do. In the LONG term, the vacuum will be filled with something better that works WITH and not against technology (so far history had always shown that to be the case if things are allowed to proceed naturally).

    1. Re:True--3rd faction, part of an obsolete industry by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      besides marketing

      you pitch this like it's trvial

      A couple of years ago I worked for a dance music record label in the UK, We'd had minor chart success and were selling about 1000 records per main release.

      But how on earth do you get your record in the many shops scattered around the uk?

      There were 1200 dance music singles in our genre released EVERY week!!

      Making the music is the easy part.

      A band can make multiple tracks per week (our outfit was making probably 10 releaseable tracks per week).

      A startup music crew in the digital age NEEDS good marketing. We had our music videos on MTV even but still little market penetration when it came to singles sales.

      So there we are, we can put maybe 500 tracks a year on our web site on mp3 but how on earth are we going to make money from that? Subscription?

      But that means e-commerce infastructure and business people and marketing so we're back at square one.

      .

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  63. Re:airwaves a "public resource"? what a quaint ide by einhverfr · · Score: 2

    I think the idea is that the broadcasting frequencies are scarce and a scarce resource, so it is in the public's best interest for them to be regulated as a public resource. This is also the rational for allowing the FTC to reasonably censor television (no X-rated movies on normal air-wave television).

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  64. On the news by r_j_prahad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It almost brought tears to my eyes when I watched this week's news footage of Afghani citizens out in their back yards in Kabul, digging up old VCRs and TV sets that they had buried to keep them from being seized by the Taliban. One old gentleman had constructed a secret room in his house to hide thousands of books, magazines, and videotapes that would have been destroyed had they been discovered. People were lining the streets listening to music again after a decade long ban, and many were openly weeping for joy.

    But what really choked me up was the whole time I was watching that story, I was thinking to myself "this is your future, this is you digging holes in your yard, in the U.S., to hide computer parts and copies of Linux from your oppressive government".

  65. MOD PARENT UP!! by AkkarAnadyr · · Score: 1

    This is the largest peril likely to emerge from this
    clusterfsck. (A poor, bored population is more likely to go along with fascism, after all.) Hopefully the prospect of becoming economic roadkill will help the Congrescritters pick their slack-jawed faces up out of their oatmeal long enough to limit this.

    --

    I bought this house and you know I'm boss
    Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off

  66. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by Secret+Coward · · Score: 1
    But let's retain the $13 billion/year for the sake of this discussion.

    The total revenue of the mass media industry was $250.9 billion in 1998.

  67. Imagine this future... by ksr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps at some point in the not-too-distant future, the following scenario might be realized.

    A woman waits near her departure gate at Newark airport, musing about the glories of days gone by. She inadvertently begins to hum a popular tune from the late nineties. Unfortunately for her, she reproduces the melody with some accuracy; the humming is picked up by several (digital rights law mandated) microphones, and analyzed by the successor to this system, which identifies the "digital property" being reproduced. The woman's location is triangulated by the multiple audio pickups, and she is identified by face. An appropriate license is automatically selected, according to the length of the humming, time of day, location, number of people within earshot, previous digital rights infraction record, and distributor-determined digital rights attributes of the tune itself.

    Later in the week, when she receives her monthly IRS debit statement, the woman discovers a $190 charge for a "public performance and audible reproduction license" covering the episode, along with a 28% tax charge. Of course, she doesn't have to worry about the inconvenience of paying; it's already been deducted from her account.

  68. How About by halfgoat · · Score: 1

    This is screaming for a non-profit company that takes donations. The expenses are cut out and artists are paid as a percentage of the remaining money, equal to the percentage they are downloaded. Sell the idea as a place to get cheap content, drive for-profits out of business, and then remind people that if they do not donate, the content will go away.

    Everyone wins.

    --
    "Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale . . ."
  69. New Interpretation of the Constitution by CutterDeke · · Score: 1
    Section 8, Clause 8 of the US Constitution:
    Clause 8: [The Congress shall have Power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries
    It seems to me that copyright is no longer promoting the progress of science. In fact, copyright is being used to hamstring technical innovation. This is just plain stupid. Moreover, it does not seem to me that the megacorporations are promoting progress of the arts with their Teen Pop Idols. The current interpretation of the Clause now appears to be:
    Clause 8: [Megacorporations shall have Power] To promote Their Business Models by securing forever to Such Macorporations the exclusive Right to their respective Lackey Authors' and Inventors' Writings and Discoveries, with the Godly Mandate that Arts shall Trump the Sciences
  70. Why artists shouldn't worry about pirates by Squirrel+Killer · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Ok, this might not be exactly on topic, but while reading the article, I couldn't help but start writing down my thoughts about the whole copyright/piracy issue.

    Non-commercial pirates are ordinary people, who otherwise would be like you and me (well, ok maybe they're exactly like me.) They are the people who like certain content and are just looking to access it at their leisure. Non-commercial pirates are fans of content. They are students (formal and informal) who want to learn from the content. They are critics who further critical discussion of content. They are consumers who will likely purchase content when they are able. They are archivists saving the content that the distributors have abandoned. They are nurturers who want to see more content and help make content better.

    But, in order to have a large enough inventory to attract people to their wares, some pirates may turn their activities into businesses. Turning commercial causes provable financial damage to the content holder (at least whatever the pirate charges, theoretical maximum of up to what the content holder charges, although certainly the discount rates of the pirate may boost his sales over what the legitimate holder would have) With such damages, there is an unquestionable standing for a lawsuit. On-line commercial pirates are especially susceptible. The 24/7 availability that offers such an advantage to on-line business, dramatically increases the pirates' chances of getting caught. Unlike the street-corner pirate, the on-line pirate can't turn off his web site if the cops come strolling by. Suffice it to say, commercial pirates are thieves, they are scum, whatever ugly adjective you want to use probably applies to them. They take the creative labor of others and use it to make a profit for themselves. Laws, regulations, mandates, and technical barriers will not stop them from their piracy. They have access to devices to circumvent whatever barriers put before them. They smell money, and don't care who is hurt in their pursuit of it.

    Eric Flint from Baen Publishing isn't worried about online piracy because is a minor problem, any losses are offset by increased exposure of the content, and any attempt to restrict piracy is worse than the problem of priacy in the first place (see this Salon cartoon for an example carried none too far to the extreme ). His own experience has shown that content released freely, and without barriers to priracy (technological, legal, or moral) are the ones that drive exposure to the artist and sell better than similar books not available freely.

    Content distributors (especially in the music industry, the RIAA and record companies) tend to justify their existance because of the amount of their marketing of the artists (in addition to the actual production/distributing efforts.) Online piracy is, then, a dilemma for artists. Piracy increases their exposure by definition, but at an inferior quality and no royalties. Piracy should show to consumers the complete uselessness of the content distributors as guardians of good taste. How many awful CD's do you have that you bought because of a catchy tune on the radio.

    Current copyright laws almost ensure that there will be a historical hole where content simply disappears. Which company will be the one to ensure that Arthur Byron Cover's 1988 novel Planetfall for future generations? Neither quality nor the commerial success of content should be the judge of whether or not it is to be preserved. Many of Shakespeare's plays where bawdy low-rent entertainment in its era, but is now considered high-art. American Pie 2 deserves no less preservation than American Beauty. Plantfall deserves no less preservation than Snow Falling on Cedars. Married With Children no less than The Honeymooners. With corporate takeovers and massive inventories, content distributors can be the worst preservers of content. While this report notes some possible solutions, it generally suggests working with the content distributors to authorize preservation efforts. This is unworkable when a distribtor is unaware of their content property, has dissolved, or is hostile to the preservation effort. The societal need for preservation outweighs the property rights of the distributor.

    It is high time that legislators and regulators stop acquiescing to every demand of the content distributors. The policy pendulum has swung too far in their favor. The problem is that the pendulum has swung quietly, without the public's knowledge. Efforts that the public does know about don't sound as harmful as they actually are, so your constituents (or those who are affected by your regulations) aren't alarmed. But as representatives of the people, you are the guardians of their rights. Fair use rights that the content distributors are attempting to restrict and even to abolish. The most perilous danger with legislative acts recently, such as the DCMA, is that they ingore that all copyrighted materials will eventually reach the public domain, as required by law (via the "limited time" clause). While content entering into the public domain is not advantageous to content distributors, it is vitally important to the general public.

    Of course, that's just my opinion... (don't sue me Dennis!)
    -sk

  71. Cottage Cheese by carrier+lost · · Score: 1
    Matthew Gerson, the vice president for public policy at Vivendi Universal S.A., which produces and sells both music (Universal Music Group) and movies (Universal Studios, Inc.), is quick to dispute the prediction that the music companies face cottage-industry status.


    I have to say, I believe the recording industry is already doomed. Let's say they do get the intense digital-rights management abilities they appear to be angling for...

    What happens? Cheap, sophisticated technology exists for musicians to create and distribute their own music. Heavy-handed digital rights management will spur a market where none now exists. Bands looking for acceptance will easily be able to do so by releasing music without copy restrictions, or with restrictions less onerous than the recording industry's, and they'll stand a better chance of getting heard and gathering an audience. People have gotten used to being able to do whatever they want with content; even if they don't understand the intricacies of the digital rights battles, this inertia will propel them to 'vote with their wallets'. If it means listening to no-name bands, rather than paying an arm and a leg to listen to whoever's on the charts, it will happen.

    The recording industry's got a hell of a challenge ahead of them - protecting their assets while simultaneously satisfying their customers. The number of people who will be willing to pay more for inflexible music from 'name' groups are going to be vastly outnumbered by the less fortunate who will be satisfied just fine with listening to unknown groups (whose music may be even more appealing to them for personal reasons, i.e., closer to their interests, current situation, age, etc) wherever and whenever they want for much less.

    Same thing for the movie and television industries. The ability to create content gets cheaper all the time. (How many of you know people who are working on a digital-video movie? :)

    Digital piracy is rightfully scaring the beejesus out of the likes of Disney, and with good reason - but even if they get draconian legal protection, it'll bite 'em in the ass - it will do no good against the mom and pop content shops that will spring up to fill the void between the people who don't care and can afford restricted premium content and those of us who by any combination of economics, idealism or preference buy generic.


    MjM

  72. The wheel turns ever on... by Wraithlyn · · Score: 2
    signal will include a digital "watermark" containing information that tells a TV watcher's home-entertainment system whether to allow copying at all, or to allow limited copying, or to allow unlimited copying.

    components of new home entertainment systems will also likely have to be designed not to play unwatermarked content - otherwise, all you've done is develop an incentive for both inquisitive hackers and copyright "pirates" to learn how to strip out the watermarks.

    So the next generation of equipment will only play watermarked content, thus foiling the evil hackers plans of stripping out the watermark. Wow, sounds pretty foolproof. NOT. Someone will just write a utility to change the "Don't copy" flag to "Unlimited copy" without removing the watermark.

    "Make something foolproof, and someone will invent a better fool." - Unknown

    --
    "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  73. Re:Digital Rights in computers could be a good thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if you believe this you probably believe that eliminating piracy would make for cheaper games.

    I've got a bridge picked out just for you...

  74. Constitutional shmonstitutional - takes too long! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, _constitutional_ ammendments must be ratified by the states with a 2/3 majority. But we can learn some great lessons from our communist "friends" like Lenin, who said "He who votes decides nothing. He who counts the votes decides everything."

    For those of you "crazy" enough to admit it, both the 16th (income tax ammendment) and 17th (which destroyed the republic and instituted a democracy) were founded on this unique methodology. Niether got 2/3 majority, but some conniving friend decided to posthumously resurrect the overwhelmingly defeated measures.

    Another ingenious method of instigating change is the old "Camel's nose in the tent" theory. Nobody wants radical change, but they all accept gradual, small encroachments of freedom. Take again, the income tax fiasco: In 1913 when it was first instituted, the income tax only applied to a small, select few (those who work for the federal government) and it was only 1 or 2 percent. Now it "applies" to everyone, and it's in excess of 30 and 40 percent.

    Today's current issues are (as others have mentioned) guns, free speech, and in short all of our God-given rights. Don't be stupid, free speech on the internet is the next to go, mark my words.

  75. International perspective by driptray · · Score: 1

    At stake in this war, says Eisner, who's the acknowledged leader of the Content Faction, is "the future of the American entertainment industry, the future of American consumers, the future of America's balance of international trade."

    Well I'm not American, and I don't give a fuck about "the future of the American entertainment industry". And IIRC, the vast majority of the world is not American either.

    And many of these non-Americans are bound to want to keep producing general-purpose computers, with all their limitless functionality intact. So if America does goes the restricted "entertainment device" route we'll have a two tier world - the restricted, controlled, entertainment-centric American world, and the unrestricted computer world that at least some of the rest of the world will produce.

    And these two tiers will surely collapse under pressure from Americans who want to get all those freedoms that the rest of the world has. To prevent this would require an enormously expensive law enforcement regime equivalent to the East German stasi or the American War on Drugs. Which I guess is already in place...

  76. But, they're trying to make that illegal too... by Svartalf · · Score: 2

    If they outlaw your ability to even attempt circumvent the challenging preventative measures (Which is what DMCA and SSSCA are all about)- then you effectively don't have fair use rights even though the law allows you them.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  77. Re:SSSCA and industry revenues' orders of magnitud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!"

    "The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

    "Shhhh! Quiet, he's on a roll."

  78. "Copyright pirates" by webweave · · Score: 1

    My definition of "Copyright pirates" are groups often media giants, who collect copyrights created by others often stealing them and when enough are collected they are used as a weapon against others often those who do or would actually create new material.

    Pirates are not individuals but corporations, have you ever seen a pirate dingy? Have you ever seen an individual threaten to drag a court battle to infinity and convince the court to give up? Its time to get political or loose it all.

    All big media wants you to have is a remote control with a buy button on it.

  79. Re:Constitutional shmonstitutional - takes too lon by kesuki · · Score: 1

    I have to agree with you there... the founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves...
    The founding fathers expected...
    1. Local and state militia to 'defend' the nation. National 'armies' were to be limited by only allowing them to be funded for 2 years at a time.
    2. Presidents were meant to be impeached. At the time the impeachment proceeding was drafted they kind of expected that every third or fourth president would need to be 'impeached.' If they were doing bad enough things they would be removed from office as a result. Instead only three presidents have ever even come Close to being impeached. None were removed from office, although Nixon did resign.
    3. The government to be overthrown when it became less of a republic. The three ways I know for doing this are: Constitutional Congress, Milita marching on the capital, and Succession. So far only one was attempted and that was for less-than pure motives. This war resulted in a change in the election process for president which forever changed the party system in america.

    Keep in mind that the founding fathers also wanted a confederate system, but they couldn't pull it off and instead went with a republic.

    I think right now they're working on removing our rights to intellectual property. Eventually there won't be any form of intellectual property that belongs to 'everyone.' Once they control every bit of IP space they have the same lock the nazi's had on information. Then they can abolish the democracy in favor of a facist police state, where the police have secret courts and can wire tap anyone. Wait a minute... The FBI has secret courts and can wire tap anyone.

  80. Re:The real battle-absenteeism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen to that. Now we all see the result of an absenteeism audiance.It got us the government we don't want, and it will get us the corporations we can't shake. We're closer to the mark, than we think.

  81. Re:Paying for music-Halloween. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe someone could come up with a "halloween" memo of the content industry. Hint,hint.

  82. The music industry - a final solution by Animats · · Score: 2
    The music industry is becoming seriously annoying to the computer community. We must act to destroy it. Not by piracy. By automation.

    The first step was MIDI - a score goes in, and music comes out. No musicians required. It doesn't sound all that great; we need smarter performance generators. There's research underway on this.

    Next step is to eliminate singers. Voice synthesizers exist now, and there are ones that will accept a MIDI track as prosody. Again, this needs to get better.

    The best part of this is that there is a compulsory license and statutory royalty rates for this, so the record companies can't say no. The current royalty rate is is $0.0755 per song plus $0.0145 for each additional minute after the first five. Per copy.

    It's coming. Click here for examples. Even runs on Linux.

    1. Re:The music industry - a final solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      " The tune had been haunting London for weeks past. It was one of countless similar songs published for the benefit of the proles by a sub-section of the Music Department. The words of these songs were composed without any human intervention whatever on an instrument known as a versificator. "
      George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Chapter 12
  83. Re:A bleak future -- time to learn chinese... by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's a sad thing but China is going to be more Free than america within a decade. The chinese have decided that they're going to use linux because 'Microsoft is an extention on the US government.' Which is a Scary thought... FBI: "we've determined you're using linux, and we've come to arrest you.."

    China does supress a number of civil liberties, but soon america will be suppressing those liberties, and requiring you to use 'approved' hardware and software.

    I just hope I'm wrong about this. I guess I better study those nuclear physics or start playing around with genetic engineering in my bathtub if I wan't to stand a chance against the oppressive police state that america is moving towards.

    "the USA act is a mere tiny step away from the two way, always on televisions of 1984." What about interactive TV complete with targeted ads etc?

  84. In the Future, books won't be burned... by Ironpoint · · Score: 1

    In the Future, books won't be burned...

    They'll be turned off, and their keys revoked.

  85. Steve Jobs vs. Steve Jobs by poleshifter · · Score: 1

    The article mentions Steve Jobs as a founder of a Tech company.

    Well, he is CEO of Apple, but also CEO of Pixar, which is a Content company.

    How long before he sues and countersues himself?