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Linux 2.5.2 Kernel Released
valdis writes "Amazing.. it's been out over 3 hours and not discussed to death. Well, maybe there's not as many bleeding-edge crazies out there. But if there are, here's what's new. You can get it at the usual place, but please use the mirrors if you can."
Well, 2.5 is coming along, lets help them out and test it.
Kyle "DotCom" Lynch
...I need some cheeze-its...
No 2.6.x yet? :p (only kidding - well done everyone)
Sounds rather interesting. I've had some issues with my Rio 800 MP3 player with many 2.4 kernels, perhaps it's more stable now? Also great that the kernel guys are working on 2.0 support.
Ciryon
...who's up for setting up a tent outside RedHat HQ and waiting for the first 2.5.3 release? ;)
Apart from the entire 'slashdot is not freshmeat'-discussion I'd like to note, that maybe slashdot should not mention the URL to the kernel archive, but only the URL for the mirrors-list. I'm sure everyone able to compile and use a 2.5.x kernel is able to find the correct download directory, should he be confronted with a mirror list.
Why is this being announced here? This is the development kernel series. MANY releases are to come, and I really hope that the announcements stop. These kernels are not intended for end users, and you may end up being the reason some newbie installs the kernel and has his drive fsck it self into oblivion. The 2.5 series is going to last a long time because of the radical changes planned, so really, stop announcing them.
Perhaps it's just Hemos's way of saying "Stop submitting '2.5.2 released!' to all those way-too-anxious-to-submit-redundant-news.
1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
Please forbgive my linux newbiness but i though odd numbered kernals were only experimental or unstable? If this is the case is it still usable under mission critical apps such as web servers etc?
By your posting history, you appear to be a troll, but you are indeed correct. The 2.5 series is certainly not for anything that needs stability. For servers, use 2.4 or 2.2 (or perhaps FreeBSD :) Personally, I wouldn't trust 2.4 yet on a server. I've been using it for the past year on several machines, and on one of my desktops, it has weird problems. I haven't had a chance to try 2.4.17 yet, so hopefully it's fixed. Or maybe that machine is just unlucky...
You don't need to talk to the slashdot community about this, you need to talk to the hardware vendors who are the people who can provide programmers with documentation and support, or even pay programmers to write the drivers just like they do for Windows.
If you think actually posting a story is going to stop people from submitting it, you're sadly mistaken. Hell, half the time it won't stop them from posting it again.
=)
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
In the future (read "when linux is 2.6ish") we'll have an autoconfiguration tool to assist in probing hardware and accompanying appropriate drivers for the build process. This in turn will hopefully push more manufacturers to release linux drivers along with their M$ drivers since more and more ppl will be able to compile their kernels.
There's huge amounts of discussion going on in the lkml (Linux Kernel Mailing List) right now the autoconfiguration tool.
1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
I know that this is a troll, but I'll bite: If you want to use Linux, you need to buy Linux-compatible hardware. Just like you wouldn't by a winprinter for a mac or an iPOD for win32 (yet), you shouldn't buy stuff that you know they don't work or work well under linux. This has been pretty well documented.
Instead of bitching around in message forums with your 24.6k modem connection, why don't you spend the time researching what works under linux and what doesn't. Maybe you would have found that there are card readers for every digital film format (compact flash, smartmedia, memorystick, sd etc) that work under linux.
Or maybe, if you can afford "the outrageous price" for the HP printer, you can afford a win32 CD and perhaps then _you_ could do something more than "practice networking skills and use the internet! Whopity-friggin doo!". Or even a mac (which are not expensive compared to a PC. definetly not -especially the imacs).
"I'll do everything within my power, be it donating money to carrying your kids to soccer practice, if you folks will just start writing drivers!"
How about stop bitching and be thankful to the people that _have_ written the million lines of code (including drivers) that make linux usable and enjoyable for us. Oh and start running windows. I have a feeling you two will get along just fine.
No kidding. You would think they were starved for stories. I don't submit a story every time Kirk McKusick makes a commit to the FreeBSD tree, or every time some feature is MFC'd. Ridiculous.
Could be worse though, linuxtoday announces every prepatch to every "tree" maintained by every kernel hacker out there.
Or maybe most of us are at work and are working on (relatively) stable workstations that we can't tinker with. I'm not a kernel hacker myself (I wait until a distro comes out with a new stable kernel and all the trimmings) but I can imagine that kernel traffic probably peaks after business hours.
While I am not certain, I see the entries for Davide Libenzi, Ingo Molnar on scheduler improvements. Ingo published a huge scheduler update that looks promising, might be worth checking it out if you have a system under high load that tends to be come poky/etc.
I believe there was some discussion of integrating Ingo's patch with the preemptive patch, should be good for everyone.
A link to his discussion http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/latest.html#4 on Kernel Traffic.
Are those improvements of the scheduler in pre11 and final the O(1) scheduler and the preemptable kernel patches that everyone has been talking about?
I can get back to writing FOLK patches. I should have a FOLK patch out within a week, covering the usual plethora of unadded patches, unheard-of protocols and unsightly drivers. :)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
In many cases, the hardware manufacturer doesn't care about Linux support and refuses to release hardware specs to Linux driver/kernel/whatever developers (or anyone else except other hardware manufacturers who turn their chips to cards and so on). So, if your plea is directed at the hardware manufacturers, it makes sense. However, in most cases there is nothing most developers of Linux can do, so you may be barking up the wrong tree.
I remember when Creative finally released the first open source Linux drivers for the SB Live. Shortly after that, Alan Cox popped up, did some Linuxification to the drivers, and since then (more or less), the SB Live has been supported by the official kernel.
On the other hand, my Conexant HCF modem is still unsupported, although we may see some drivers soon. In theory. Conexant has refused any co-operation (to the best of my knowledge) with open source developers.
Re your moaning: I wanted to buy a decent inkjet printer with good Linux support. Only took me about half an hour to find that the best bet was the Epson C80, which has *excellent* drivers from the gimp_print project.
Next time you are buying something, ask them if it has Linux support. If they say no, don't buy it - and tell them that you are not buying it *because it doesn't have Linux support*. If enough people do that, they'll quickly get the message. Don't blame Linux for HP's shoddy standards.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Jakub Jelinek: fix Linux/x86 confusion about arg passing of "save_v86_state" and "do_signal"
Seems somehow appropriate. (the confusion, I mean... :) Anyways, what a bunch of prolific hackers. Some of these guys had changes or patches in nearly every pre version.
The changelog could be a bit more verbose, but otoh, perhaps these kind of descriptions are more thought-inspiring.
After I installed Kernel 2.4 w/o any hard drive errors for 6 months using Kernel 2.2, I started receiving Bad CRC errors. I decided that the bleeding edge is not for me and I am going to wait a year before upgrading....
Mike Smith
Reading LKML has been one of the most enlightening experiences. Following the conversations, reports, complaints and rants you can really piece together a very lucid picture of the very complex nature of large open-source projects. The whole process of kernel development demonstrates why open-source works; how hundreds, if not thousands, of people scattered accross the globe can work on a project; how cooperating with fierce competition produces results.
Some days it's like going to the pub and discussing politics. Other days its a horse track where betting takes place on patches. Still, other days its a battlefield where someone has to prove that he can match wits with his adversaries who are also hacking the kernel. Linux kernel development shows that when you embrace all those human traits (competitiveness, arrogance, violence, love, friendship, shame, curiosity, idolitry, desire, hate, intelligence, stupidity, humor, spite, disgust, altruism), and apply them in the appropriate places at the appropriate times you can achieve much more than if you listened to what you were supposed to do. Like all of life it is a seathing, organic process that becomes what it becomes through relentless change and its ability to fulfill a particular niche. The chemestry is the drive of the hacker; the elements are the lines of code: a primordial soup of abstract ideas.
Just a couple of my thoughts at 5:00am.
Personally, I got lucky with 2.4.17 (or rather, sometimes after 2.4.13), it can finally handle my USB MO drive without the process freezing. That was my only probelm with the earlier 2.4 kernels.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
I'm amazed that Pete Zaitcev continues to update YMF PCI sound driver in the middle of discussion about the source layout of ALSA drivers. Nobody doubts that ALSA will be included, the only question is how.
Generally, if the ghostscript driver for your printer doesn't yield satisfying results, especially in regard to photo printing, you may get lucky with GIMP-Print.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Just don't forget that what it just cut may be you, or rather, your valuable data...
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Lots of people for whom broadband either isn't available at all or who just don't need it and thus save some money.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Honestly..these Linux programmers need to take their time..people don't want to download the new kernal once a week..I mean..release it after you make some serious updates and stop bugging us!
That gets pointed out so often that I'm doubtful about making yet anothe r reply to this, but...
First off we're dealing with a 2.5.x release here, the whole 2.5.x is a developement branch, which is not meant for normal users, it's for those developing or otherwise interested in hacking the kernel.
Secondly even for stable branches (2.2.X and 2.4.X and 2.6.X one day) it is recommended that normal users stick to vendor provided kernels. For example the RedHat released 2.4.9-13 is still a valid kernel. It contains a lot of fixes that came to linux kernele main tree after the 2.4.9.
The sad mishaps with 2.4.10 et al happened because at that time the 2.4.x branch were still the developement branch. The problems with those releases didn't involve those that used distribution kernels, only those that were either adventureous enough to try the cutting-edge stuff or mistaken into believing that every 2.4.x release was to be taken as the stable-release for the normal users.
Want stability? Stick to distribution kernels. Want to toy around and hopefully learn something while adventuring with a developement kernel? Head over to www.kernelnewbies.org and rtfm....
This is not a question of getting the latest and the finest, because for normal users the latest distribution kernel released is the finest in every practical sense. (either that or you might concider changing our distribution preference)
(and by a normal user I'm referring to a user not particularly interested in developing or otherwise hacking the kernel)
1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
*sigh*
:-((
Same problem here with my Terratec DMX XFire... I use it for MD-recording, but under Linux the digital-out doesn't work... seems that Terratec refuses cooperation as well.. (though I believe it uses a Crystal Soundfusion Chip... don't know about them.)
I use Linux because I don't want to shell out for licences, and I don't want to use illegal software (being in software development myself), but having to do analog recording sucks...
My hopes right now are set on the guys from the ALSA-project.
PageTurner Reader: open-source e-reader for Android with cloudsync. http://pageturner-reader.org
Bleeding edge is a play on words of Cuttting edge, basically it means the very newest stuff- unfortunatly so very new that it doesn't work properly and is a pain to use and maintain. Hence bleeding...
J-aims
--
Yo, whatever happened to peas? Join T( H)GS
This story is significant because this kernel is really the first tangible departure from the 2.4 branch. Initial USB 2, a very improved scheduler, and other improvements a changelog would do a better job than I of documenting.
Like it or not, these types of changes are significant. Things like schedulers and IO end up being the reason Big Iron companies choose OSes. If Linux is getting there, I personally want to know. If you don't, hey... just move on.
Which either means the 2.4 drivers are buggy ... or ... the 2.2 drivers aren't reporting your CRC errors.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
MAC OS X.... or do we only think of 'mainstream' OSes here?
My primary desktop machine, which runs Linux just fine, is a Pentium 166 with 128MB of RAM. Will Windows XP run OK on this, or would I have to go out and spend money to buy a new computer? (Having already spent money to buy Windows XP.)
Oh yeah, I also have an original 3c905 Ethernet card (not 3c905B). Is that still supported in Windows XP? I ask because Windows 2000 no longer supports the 3c590, which is a similar (but even older) model.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
b.
--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
I wish that someone would set up a distro-neutral web site and interview a bunch of device driver writers about which companies publish their specs and which don't. It could grow up to be a certification program where, if a vendor publishes enough specs for people to write GPL drivers, they get to use some kind of logo.
Then as a customer I would buy hardware with that logo. If there are enough customers like me (and it probably doesn't take many), then at least a few vendors would become interested in qualifying for that logo.
Right now the market pressure of open-source customers is inchoate. It's also diluted, because a lot of people just work around the lack of vendor specs and get something to sort of work anyways (such as Lucent winmodems).
gphoto is a step in the right direction. They list the camera vendors that publish specs. When I bought a digital camera, I made sure to buy from one of those vendors.
Dont forget the fact that while having your eXPerience on the internet good uncle Bill Gates is receiving all kind of information from your computer. (information you dont want to send to MS) That might explain why downloading stuff from the internet is lot slower in windows than on linux (on the same box, with the same connection)... :))))
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
Which either means the 2.4 drivers are buggy ... or ... the 2.2 drivers aren't reporting your CRC errors.
It's (probably) the latter; the 2.4 drivers report CRC errors caused during transmission along the IDE cables. You've (probably) always had the problem, now you know about it and should fix it (hint: start by buying some good quality IDE cables...)
--
I'll do some 2.4.x stuff, too. As many of the patches I use are still 2.4.x-based, this may very well be the more "extensive" version.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
It seemed that whenever I wanted to compile a module for some new driver, I would also have to recompile the entire kernel, otherwise the two wouldn't interract correctly (yes, I'm being vague. I think I would get messages about symbols, but it's been a while).
So, is there a way to compile a single module to run with a kernel that has already been built?
And what exactly does MODVERSIONS do?
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
I realize that some people think that you buy products for your computer after you have been using the OS for three or so years... I'm not a guru by any means, but I'm not a moron. I do apreciate the feedback that I have gotten, even the rotters of the bunch. /. as a moaning platform, but I do think that there are people out there that are reading this that may acctually have some sort of swing in the business(I'm just a tech, I don't know how beurocrats work in business).
Like I said earlier in this post, I have been using Linux for about three years, but my fiance has been using her camera/scanner/printer in Windows for much longer than her desire to make the switch. I have tried on various occasions to contact the manufacturers of all the products and have only gotten a reply from HP(with the link to the sourceforge site). I must appologize for abusing
Well, you may not be a programmer, but at least you know how to fsck!
;)
A little planning goes a long way...
Thanks man. I really do appreciate the fact that you have the foresight to not just bitchslap me and forget about it. I have been using distros of all sorts from RH to Slack all the way down to little floppy distros. I am into networking. I write firewall scripts. That is what I do for fun. I have hardware and devices that belong to my fiance who has had them much longer than she has wanted to use Linux. She wants to switch for the same reason that I wanted to switch years ago. Stability. I guess I am just angry because I cannot help her. ;)
Back to the waiting game!
Should I encounter any problems moving from 2.4.14 to 2.5.2 on a RH 7.2 box?
Sure I have! Why, just this past weekend I booted up by dual-boot box (Win XP Pro/Slackware 8.0) and within five minutes, XP bluescreened and shut itself down. Why? It apparently had an issue with the sound driver. The whole system shuts down (i.e., crashes) because of one problem driver? MS, have a free clue: THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!
I've been using XP Pro since it came out (gaming) and I've come to the conclusion that MS XP is just the same old MS shit covered up with a face lift and the usual _huge_ pile of MS marketing bs. More stable? No it's not. More secure? No it's not. More value for the cost? Not even close, just a big, frustrating waste of time.
Having recently purchased a Sony PS2 and a Hauppauge TV card, I now play games in a window under Linux, either window size or full screen. Works great, Devil May Cry is a blast, no need to put up with crappy MS OS just to play a game.
Good bye MS, no more need for "MicroSlop" on my machines.
Everything in the Universe sucks: It's the law!
How is that coming along? From what I recall it was put in 2.4 but it had some goofy bugs. I'd like to use it on our database (Sybase ASE 12.5) and just wondering if they've made any improvements yet.
Thanks,
--
Matt
I run a 905 (not 905B) card in XP with no problems. Don't know about the 590's.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
I will stay running the 2.4 series, but this release seems news to me. I understood that some basic i/o has been rewritten during the 2.5.2-pre cycle, and I guess that 2.5 is now stable enough for new features like inclusion of ALSA and CML2. Does anyone have a link to some 2.5 kernel planning?
But you are absolutely correct in that the scheduler improvements will be more apparent and dramatic on 4 and 8-way machines because of the elimination of the global run queue. Each CPU gets its own run queue and processes will only bounce around when other cpu's are idle. We finally have a scheduler that will work on enterprise class machines.
What happens when you "probe" for hardware (Windows or Linux) is that you scan interrupts and receive responses from hardware, in the form of vendor_id and/or product_id tags, which are then compared to a list/db of known vendor_id elements. These map against drivers, and when found, appropriate drivers are loaded or made available. There is no "discovery" of devices beyond what is already known and included in the kernel itself.
"Probing" doesn't know about any more hardware than we already do.
Just be aware that quite a bit is moving around in 2.5.x, so nothing is guaranteed to stay stable at all in it.
...it will compile this time. I tend to only get lucky every few kernel versions. Or is that all the bloat I try to compile in *grin*
I've been using XP Pro since it came out (gaming) and I've come to the conclusion that MS XP is just the same old MS shit covered up with a face lift and the usual _huge_ pile of MS marketing bs. More stable? No it's not. More secure? No it's not.
Speak for yourself; I use XP as my desktop OS for the exact opposite reason; I have found it to be more stable than (obviously) 98, and windows 2000 . Actually, I might have fixed the issue in Win2k right before upgrading to XP; i replaced the fan on one of the cpus.
Don't get me wrong, the fact that it didnt support your sound card is bad (assuming the situation isnt ridiculous) but i am just talking about my experience with XP.
But still...would i use it as my firewall or server machine? hell no; it simply does not belong there.
IMO, this post DID deserve to get modded down, because the question has been answered so many times; dont upgrade unless you are a developer or 2.5 is the only recent kernel that will work effectively on your machine! Bigger!=better
I have to wonder why hardware vendors would be so dead set against releasing their specs. I mean, who in their right minds would say no to having drivers written for free, and getting an addition to their customer base? Could it be that they are afraid that someone will duplicate their hardware? (Keep in mind that I know nothing about actually designing hardware, or writing drivers.)
Assuming that this is the problem, maybe a GPL-like license could be written for drivers derived from companies opening up their specs. The driver software could be distributed and modified a la GPL (hence it would be allowed to link with the GPL'd Linux kernel,) but the license would prohibit the creation of new hardware devices based on the specs used to build the drivers.
Maybe I'm crazy, but it was just a thought...
Looks like XFS is still not about to be included in the main development tree, which is too bad since it is a great filesystem. I guess that I am going to have to continue getting my updates from SGI.
:-)
(Getting a kernel via CVS is SOOOO nice)
Don't randomly spout off baseless claims just to sound good. Windows 2000 natively supports the 3c590; I'm running two of them on my cable modem box at home. I got both secondhand; no drivers whatsoever. Win2000 didn't blink at their inclusion; I never even had to see the "detecting new hardware" screen.
No. That really defeats the idea behind Linux. With Linux, take action in your own hands and get the support added for that hardware!
When I purchased my Hercules Game Theater XP, there wasn't any Linux support. Yes, there was a CS46xx module, but it didn't work with the GTXP. I read the source and found Thomas Woller's email address and fired him off an email. Before I knew it I was asked what I would like supported from my device and asked to write up some information for Thomas to present to Cirrus Logic. Emails started to fly and Thomas started to send me drivers to test on my machine, which I would test and send him back my results. I was being placed into mailings with Thomas and many other developers including Alan Cox. It really was an amazing experience and gives you the true meaning of Open Source.
For a small part of time I was making a difference. I was taking what I needed but also giving it to thousands of others. Now there is a little part of me in every Linux kernel. I did not have to be a big programmer, just needed to contribute.
1. I was/am speaking for myself.
2. You've never used a stable OS according to your reply, so you have no basis for comparison to anything other than the toy OSes from MS.
3. XP supports the soundcard (SB Live), it apparently just hiccuped and took down the entire system, which is my point. Does the same thing with video drivers for my Nvidia GeForce3: One little hiccup from one driver and the whole system crashes. This is horrible design work at a very fundamental level of the OS.
4. If you've ever used a stable OS, you know just how truly _bad_ MS product is in comparison. A stable OS will _not_ completely crash just because the sound driver and the kernel don't like what the other has to say.
5. Get yourself a real OS and I assure you within a short period of time you'll get used to quality: It's a good thing.
Everything in the Universe sucks: It's the law!
I'm sorry, but you assumed way too much. I also wonder why you decided to create an inflammatory post; my post was not meant to insult yours, I was just talking about my experience with windows XP. I do not use only microsoft products. I have been running slackware for a couple of years now, and I use a slackware computer as a general server (and a secondary desktop machine.) I also use FreeBSD on my third machine.
Once again, I was not trying to insult your post; just adding my experience, which with the SB Live and XP in general has been good.
Do you have any theories as to what would produce this difference in audio quality (particularly on SB, which is just bog simple -- there really isn't anything that could be different)?
It could just be linear versus logarithmic mixer settings, but that's not a sound quality issue.
If that were the case, you would just need to start turning up the volume at the mixer rather than turning up the pot on your headphone cord or your external speaker amp -- both of which will introduce additional "hiss".
Otherwise, this smacks of "psychosomatic bug" to me.
DNA just wants to be free...
"Amazing.. it's been out over 3 hours and not discussed to death. Well, maybe there's not as many bleeding-edge crazies out there. But if there are, here's what's new. You can get it at the usual place, but please use the mirrors if you can."
Do you really expect many people to run this kernel? It's unstable as ****, mostly due to the block IO changes.. I think most users would rather not have their drive corrupted because they are running the latest and coolest kernel..
Anyway, no 2.5 for me, until ALSA enters this series of kernels..
xer.xes -- 4181
a little over a year ago, I bought a external CD-RW drive as a backup device -- an HP 8100 (or is is 8200?) series external model. I chose it because it was by HP and USB; I figured that with those two factors, it should be a pretty cross-platform device, so I could get everything off my unstable win2K laptop onto CDs, and when I got a Mac (as I planned at that point, and later did), could use it on the Mac. Google searches found plenty of people who were using it under Linux, and since the laptop at that point dual-booted ...
...
;) I hope that Mandrake 8.2 PPC will work it, too, but since that's not out yet, can't say.
At any rate, my reasoning was bad, and I should have researched more. Did it work under Windows? Yes. The included software I find pretty ugly, but Yes, it works. Does it work under Linux? Yes, when set up by a smart person (not me) who did a bunch of fiddling, but now works great. But the Mac? Nope. The HP site has one of those great non-responsive responses in the FAQ, too. Something like
"Q: Does my 8200e work with the Mac OS?
A: We understand that many people would like to use their 8200e with a computer running the Mac OS. Have a nice day."
Huh? They couldn't have released a driver for a %$#@ external USB drive!? I expected to just pop on the HP site and download a driver, seemed reasonable enough. HP used to be a Mac-friendly company, but now I am wary about buying any HP product. Thanks, guys. Glad it works under Linux
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Also, I couldn't find the source code to ntoskrnl.exe. Nor the C compiler, for that matter. How am I supposed to use the system to solve problems if I can't compile and install software on my system? How do developers write and compile any code?
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Similar numbers, totally different card.
The 905 is a PCI 10/100 card, the 590 is an ISA 10 MBit card.
± 29 dB
Should Linux really support a card that's that old? I really wonder now about backward compatibility with hardware. There has to be a time you stop supportign it in a mainstream kernel - or else the kernel will just get bigger and bigger.
Perhaps a second mainstream branch should be started, linux-deprecated or something. Once hardware has been out of production for five years, move it out of the main kernel. The person that wants to set up a P120 gateway can, while allowing the newer kernels to stay fully up-to-date with much less legacy code in them.
± 29 dB
i think the original poster was referring to redhat releasing a dist with an unstable kernel. this being a reference to them releasing an entire version based on an unstable snapshot of gcc.
i really wish people would get off this "jump to conclusions" bandwagon.
-- john
the poster could possibly be talking about taking advantage of what we already know in a more automated sense.
probing will not give us any more information about hardware other than identifying it if we already know what it is. for hardware we are already knowlegeable of, we can use this autoconfiguration tool to compile, modules for the kernel with little user input.
so instead of me getting the source, running make menuconfig slecting alot of crap, compiling, rebooting and getting a kernel panic because i compiled ide in as a module or somesuch; the autoconf thing would take advantage of info we already have to compile the kernel (or perhaps just the modules) in a more automated way.
-- john
If you really hate your data, now (with the BIO changes) is a good time to update...
:).
That's the only reason I can come up with
xer.xes -- 4181
I dunno, I move away from Linux for 2 months and there's a new kernel! :P
I'm sorry to hear that my attitude bugs you. Please know that I didn't start my day in that direction.
/.
I don't dispute that information about kernel releases should be news. But there are places to get that specific kind of information (kernel.org?).
It just seems odd that a development release would make HEADLINE news on
.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Drivers are pretty self-contained. The only problem with supporting old hardware is that when you change an API you need to edit all the old driver files. But if you happen to forget one, and it quits working, life goes on - until a user who has the proper hardware complains, at which time the driver is updated.
The model works quite well.
Now occasionally a single driver will keep getting extended until it supports a wide range of similar hardware, and at some point, the developers split it into an "old hw" driver and a "new hw" driver, possibly with some overlap. This happened a long time ago with the NCR 53c8xx driver, and more recently with the Tulip driver.
It's called "Linux-2.2" or "Linux-2.0". Both are still being maintained, by Alan Cox and David Weinehall respectively.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Oh, so asking an honest question in an effort to understand is considered trolling?
Well then, in an effort to better myself and learn:
I TROLL WITH PRIDE!
.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Depends on your definition of "totally different". (:
No, the 509 is an ISA 10MBit card. Specifically we have:
3c509 - ISA 10Mbps - classic "Etherlink III"
3c509B - ISA 10Mbps - PnP version of 509 3c515 - ISA 10/100 - rare
3c529 - MCA 10Mbps - similar to 509
3c579 - EISA 10Mbps - similar to 509
3c590 - PCI 10Mbps - "Etherlink III PCI"
3c595 - PCI 10/100 - similar to 590
3c900 - PCI 10Mbps - "Etherlink XL PCI" - similar to 590
3c905 - PCI 10/100 - similar to 595
3c905B, 905C, 920, 980, etc - evolutionary changes to 905
Linux uses three drivers for all of the above: 3c509.c (also covers the 529 and 579), 3c515.c, and 3c59x.c (covers all the rest).
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
It's called "Linux-2.2" or "Linux-2.0". Both are still being maintained, by Alan Cox and David Weinehall respectively.
...but 2.4 still includes support for all that legacy stuff.
± 29 dB
It means that you sit at your computer and constanly refresh kernel.org to see when the next patch is available.
Whoops, my fault. I was going from memory, as I'm sure you have figured out by now.
All I remembered off hand was the basic rule "if it starts with 5 it's 10 MBit, if it starts with 9 it's 10/100."
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Sure, I'll try 2.5.2.. no big deal. After the 2.4 series, I'm strangely no longer afraid of the development tree. (-;
ps.) hint to developers: better VIA chipset support!
who, besides my jackass ex-employer, still uses ISDN??
The major teleconferencing companies use 3 concurrent ISDN lines to get a private nework with enough bandwidth to stream the audio and video between end-points, FWIW.
--El Linuxero
Typical ESO problem.
sic transit gloria mundi
Lots of people are interested. If you're not, don't read the story. Don't waste your time commenting. Just skip to the next one.
Does it really offend you so much you have to tell everyone?
great news I allready thought folk was dead since there were no updates for over 3 months
holy crap! and i have 2 mod points left! it's too bad the parent of this post can't be modded to a +6 or +7, because that post would have my points easy.
A few weeks ago I was walking by a local consumer high-tech place, and saw a sign out front that proclaimed Windows XP: in-store demos today! I carefully hid my business cards, posed as a home user with interest in multimedia and digital photography (quasi-true), and asked what was so cool about Windows XP.
Apparently you can have multiple users, with their own environments. Cool! You can plug a digital camera in and take pictures. Far out! You can even put pictures on the login screen. Wow!
All in all, just about the clunkiest demo I've seen of any system. Worse, the salesdroid never did answer my question, because all the digital camera stuff is not actually new in XP. I couldn't help but notice the hefty hardware (1.2 GHz Athlon) and the mediocre performance.
Sorry, not for me. I'll stick to my Linux box. 550 MHz Pentium 3. Could use a little more oomph when playing DVDs (bus speed, methinks), but works fine otherwise.
It also talks to digital cameras.
...laura
Not quite all. Some drivers fall into disrepair and a few no longer even compile - because apparently nobody still has the hardware or cares.
A good example is the xd driver. It's for a PC-XT hard disk controller - that is, pre-IDE/ATA. Someone reported that it no longer worked (I think in the early 2.3 days, could be wrong) and I remember Linus saying "If you haven't upgraded your hardware in 10 years, why are you upgrading your kernel?" The retort was "Because retrocomputing is fun." Someone actually offered to donate an old xd interface card to any developer who would promise to continue to maintain the driver.
I have no idea if anyone took him up on it.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
A) No ntoskrnl.exe, true, but as for the C compiler, there's always GCC.
B) I switched from Windows to Linux, even though Linux's GUI sucks more, just because I dispise Microsoft and don't mind Linux. Yet, I don't for one minute doubt that Windows is just as capable a developer machine as anything based on Linux. Xp is rock-solid stable, fast (compared to GNOME or KDE!), and thanks to GNU and Cygwin, has all the CLI tools you could possibly want. There are a lot of reasons to like Linux, but pretending there is something (desktop, not server) you can do in Linux that you can't in Windows is just dumb.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
We need to start writing letters to hardware vendors. As an example, here is one that has been sent to modem.support@conexant.com:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I have been considering the purchase of a quantity of modems with your chips in them, but have to date been unable to locate any drivers for them.
The only drivers I have found have been for Microsoft operating systems, which is useless in our business environment which runs a combination of Linux and Digital Unix machines.
If no drivers have been made available, could you please direct me to the specifications so we can look at developing the drivers ourselves?
I cannot purchase this hardware unless drivers can be made available. I am certain this is also the case for thousands of other would-be buyers of conexant products. This is a very large potential customer base.
kind regards,
This is the only way we will get manufacturers to listen to us, by making htem realise that they are missing out on market share.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Yes, the 3c905 card works under XP.. albeit very poorly, I installed XP on a K6-2/400 with 768mb ram, and could achieve only 3mbytes/sec transfer rates using ftp or samba, to a box 1 hop away (over a 10/100 switch). Linux and FreeBSD both manage around 10mbytes/sec using this same hardware.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Bigger and bigger with runtime loadable modules, yes. A bigger source tree to build when you first build a kernel, yes. After that, you're done.
Bigger source to download for users on slow connections, bigger kernels to *maintain.* Bigger kernels for distros to wade through to decide what they want and don't want in the shipping kernel. In general, more things people don't need.
Bigger kernels to load in increasingly convoluted ways. We had zImage. then bzImage. Now initrd is all the rage...if the kernel was smaller, these measures would nto be so very necessary.
Some of this is inherent with a monolithic kernel like Linux, but that's all the more reason to try to keep it in check before it gets even worse.
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