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Australia Rules DVD's are Films, Not Software
divereigh writes: "The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that an Australian Federal court has decided this case in favour of the Australian Video Rental Association. The Association had taken Warner Home Video to court for trying to classify DVD's as software and thus double the price for those sold into the rental market."
DVD's are a storage medium. They are what someone makes them to be (ie. Movie DVD's, Software DVD's, etc).
Trying to classify Movie DVD's as software is sort of... dumb.
For a second their People in australia were going to get screwed with DVDs and bradband... Good thing its now back to get screwed with broadband
"You win again Gravity!" -Futurama (Zapp)
Yeah but they had to try... It would have been 100% more profits if they had won.
Shh.
Not that this isn't a good thing in the long run, but who does it really benefit now? I mean, if things in Australia are like they are in the US, Blockbuster still charges a premium for DVD rental over VHS rental even though a VHS movie might cost $120 and a DVD of the same movie $15.
Why is that, exactly? Is this the CD pricing scheme all over again? I stopped going to brick-and-mortar video stores and started a NetFlix account. It's a little less convienent, but I pay $2-3 per movie depending on how many I manage to cram into a month.
Phathead
Does this mean Region Code Enhancement, which uses scripting to check whether the player is region 1 (and IIRC only region 1), would be banned in Oz?
sulli
RTFJ.
I for one will gladly pay twice as much for DVD content as I would for equivalent VHS content; the extensive capabilities of the DVD format make the medium that much more valuable. By declaring this practise illegal, I'm afraid Australia could be severely stifling the incentive of movie companies to include special DVD-only features. This move doesn't benefit anyone; both the content producers and the consumers suffer.
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
Will this set the standard on future legal cases? And if DVDs are not software then where does that put the interactive game dvds? (i.e. dragons lair and space ace)
Australia still sucks. No GTA3, and now they are making it a criminal offense again to grow marijuana plants.
God damn I would hate to be an Aussie right now.
Since I'm not in Australia, this doesn't affect me directly, but it's still a moral victory (now if we can just convince a judge in the US to accept an Australian court finding as precedent...)
Basically, the decision ruled that DVD movies cannot be treated as software simply because they are digitally recorded, and because DVD players have processors. I wonder if now AOL Time Warner will try to "modify" the DVD standard in order to make DVDs into "software" so they can go ahead with their scheme anyway. I doubt customers (meaning me) would go for that, since it would probably mean that people would have to get newer-model DVD players, but I wouldn't put it past them to try it.
Now back to my evil plan of storing my data onto VHS tape and proclaiming it as "software"... heheheh...
DVD's are sold primarily as films. This makes perfect sense. I don't see the fact that they are encoded with region tags make them software. When was the last time you sat down to watch a movie and thought 'this is some great software here'?
Seriously though, has the US done anythnig about this?
Can be found here. It is dating back to Novemeber 05, 2001.
--Metrollica
No way, I am a humanist programmer, I will never kill anybody, I will never kill Jews or Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" --- Declaration of Independance
So it's really consumers 1, video rental stores 1, giant corporation 0.
dude, if you want to masturbate, please check out autopr0n, not fucking slashdot.
Sorry - but it's total crap. DVD's are software. They contain logic - menu systems, scene browsers, and most importantly, a nasty little piece of malicioius code called "region coding" which illegally allows the Motion Picture cartels to practice Predatory Price Discrimination against a worldwide customer base.
No, DVD's are software. Malicious software, in fact. They should be dealt with as such.
I here-by declare the ladder post in the name of King Louis XIV, King of the Sun.
$2.75? I assume that's AUS$. I can walk down the street to Hollywood Video and pay US$5 for a DVD rental.
:P)
I guess pricing in Australia isn't like it is here. Lucky Australians......
I'll have to visit someday..(not because of the DVD rentals
They're plastic.
As for the price disparity between rental DVDs and videos:
This ruling probably won't benefit consumers because, as someone else has already pointed out, DVD's will cost more to rent than VHS tapes regardless of how expensive it is for the rental chains to purchase them. However, I think it's gratifying anytime someone manages to beat the film industry in court.
Do people actually rent DVD's? Because of the higher cost of renting them, I've found that it's usually best just to buy the movie outright. In most cases, I find that a movie worth watching is worth watching again. So I think it would be kind of nice to have a movie library.
I think the main difference between a piece of software and a game is how much interactivity is offered. The first CD-ROM games that I played, back in the early 1990's, were "Spaceship Warlock" and "Hell Cab". While these were computer games and as such would be classified as software, they interactive experience entailed essentially clicking on things every once in a while and the rest of the time watching the story unfold.
The main difference between "playing" these games and watching a movie was the fact that they had a "choose your own adventure" style of playback; i.e. you could dictate the basic actions of the main character. So I would conclude that most DVD movies are indeed movies and not pieces of software, because they are mostly non-interactive, and for the most part, people by them to watch the movie and not play the silly little games included.
I think my sig has never been more appropriate than now. Check out my site if you want to know about backing up DVD's.
The future isn't what it used to be.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
DVDs are more prone to deterioration (being very vulnerable to scratches) and so will not allow as many rentals before requiring replacement.
That's interesting -- I would have guessed that DVD's last longer. VHS tapes are vulnerable to being chewed up by the VCR, and on some old videos that I have the magnetic tape is just wearing out. DVD's avoid both of those problems, but I suppose you're right about the scratching.
I'm not arguing with you -- I suspect you're correct. I'm just curious....
Steve
NO, not flamebait
let me spell it out..
M A S T U R B A T E
so Mod Total: -1 CmdrTaco Masturbate.
The company argued that it was entitled to charge more because, since a DVD - unlike a video-tape - is digitally recorded and is played on a machine containing a processor, it should be treated like a computer program and subject to copyright law.
The company argued that [...] a DVD [...] should be treated like a computer program and subject to copyright law.
The courts rejected the company's claim.
Does that mean that DVDs aren't subject to copyright law?
(yes, I know this is a silly conclusion; but I really can't work out what the quoted paragraph is supposed to mean.)
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Hmm... Maybe I'll watch some FreeBSD tonight.
Why must they be pigeon-holed into either category?
Jeezus christ, I hope this guy moderated himself to insightfull ... because you would hope that noone would moderate this combination karma-whore/troll up.
The problem is people already know how to handle VHS, and while they should know how handle DVD's (they are essentially the same as audio CD's), I believe most people have never learned the proper technique. From the DVD's I get at Blockbuster, it looks like people use them for outrageous things like scratching their asses, cooking, and frisbees.
The future isn't what it used to be.
go fuck your king you silly queen
-------------------------------------------------
charlton heston is more of a man than yo
"DVDs have better quality content so people will pay more."
Depends on what it is. How well the overall job was done (sound,video,layout).
"DVDs are more prone to deterioration (being very vulnerable to scratches) and so will not allow as many rentals before requiring replacement."
There's a protective film that can overlay both CD & DVDs. Get damaged (within reason), replace the film.
"DVDs are still catching on, people who own players tend to be wealthier and therefore less likely to be concerned about the higher cost."
I disagree. The price of DVD players has come down to about what one would pay for a VCR.
The disk themselves can be had for reasonable. Remember that "./" story about online bargains?
A DVD movie, on the other hand, is far more complex. The user can pick different soundtracks, different cuts, and all in all give more control to the user. This requires a significant amount of programming information to be present in the VOB files on the disc, much more than the jejune TOC system on an audio CD. There's a world of difference between the two media, and it's a fallacy to try to compare them.
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
I guess it depends on were you live. I'm in the central US and at Blockbuster I pay about $3.75 for a rental.
Semi-seriously though, where can I get the powerful moderator crack? Whoring for RIAA does not insightful make.
"No, DVD's are software. Malicious software, in fact. They should be dealt with as such."
Well I've heard that Shrek installs spyware on your computer based DVD player.
So your not too far off the mark.
Decoding DVD content is STEALING. Get that through your thick head.
Mod me as a troll if you like but the way I see it is: Duh, of course it's a film!
Anyone who argues that a dvd (In this case, thatt's Digital VIDEO disc, not 'Versitile') is software more than it is film needs to reply to this and explain why.
A DVD contains ZERO in the way of executable code--zero, Zilch, NONE!
The word software came from the word hardware, but with the adaptation being that there was no hard-wired functionality. But what does the -ware in softWARE and hardWARE mean? In this case, functionality.
Graphics hardware: Stuff that makes pretty pictures, real fast.
Sound hardware: Stuff that converts binary audio data to analog, along with a lot of other stuff.
Linux: Software that runs a computer.
A DVD contains pure media. No functionality. It requires a seperate piece of hardware/software just to be used!
They are media, and as such they should be governed by the laws that cover media.
Oh, and by the way... the DVD Menu's? Those aren't executable. Those are A collection of images with a few links. They are not a program (To be that, they would have to have the capability of iteration, which they do not.)
I hope that someone can take it one step further and gain a ruling that DVDs legally purchased anywhere else in the world can be played legally in Australia - effectively, a ruling invalidating any so-called 'right' for content producers to restrict disks to geographical regions.
The 'region encoding' thing totally sucks. Not only do the anti-De-CSS rulings effectively make it illegal to play a DVD on a Linux box, it's also a thin edge of the wedge allowing content producers to exercise ridiculous levels of control over how people are able to consume content. What'll it be next? You can't watch a show unless you key in a serial number from inside the lid of a Coke bottle, plus a code from inside a Pizza Hut carton?
Australian legislators have some 'quirky' notions of technology that often differ to those elsewhere in the world - it just might be possible to get such a ruling and overturn this ridiculous region coding bullshit once and for all.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
(Score:3, Informative)
How did this got modded up???
Did you miss the part about people not taking proper care of them? People aren't careful with anything they rent, and VHS certainly takes abuse better than DVD.
Common sense prevails
A Movie on DVD = a movie
A book on DVD = a book
Music on DVD = music
Art on DVD = art
Computer programs = software.
Sure, the DVDs may actually come with some executable code on them, but by and large, THE BITS OF THE DVD REPRESENT DATA.
This data is consumed by software to generate media, but IT IS *NOT* SOFTWARE.
Any good software engineer knows that CODE and DATA should be SEPARATE. I'm glad the court recognizes this as well.
Let me get a taste of that manbeef!
VHS's are less susceptable to *people fucking with you* as well :-) Ive rented videos before and had them not be what was printed on the casette ... once someone taped over the movie I rented ... I dont know what exactly was on it, but it was a midget in a bathtub that was on sleds, sledding in a huge drainge ditch, he ate shit about halfway down the slope :) Of course that was way more entertaining then the crap my g/f had picked out for the evening ...
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
He was a taliban ;-)
Copy protection measures and aggressive licensing WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY if people like you weren't constantly trying to mass-pirate copies of COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL, but the abundance of stolen media on Morpheus and Kaza clearly show that it IS NECESSARY. Circumventing decryption only serves to encourage mass piracy of content.
Have a read of the last couple of paragraphs.. it has relevance world-wide. If Warner succeeded in Australia, it would've been very likely the same pricing would be introduced in other countries.
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but that is a guy!!! Check out that adam's apple and the size of the hands.
Time to reformat your harddrive.
Offtopic rant time! My variant on this is that a movie worth watching is worth downloading - it takes a day or so and is a hassle, so I don't waste my time watching crap movies. Sure, it's piracy, but I'm not going to buy a DVD drive that will only work with certain movies and may be obsoleted to fix the broken region coding. I'm also not going to wait a year for the VHS, this is *much* less convenient for me than watching it on my computer.
Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
I just don't understand all the negativity here. Here's how I see it: WB was playing games with what a DVD really is in order to squeeze more money out of rental places in questionable ways. They lost that right, and were punished. Customers at rental places are renting MOVIES, no matter what kind of 'software' is on the DVD. They're not renting DVD's to solve a problem, virus scan their hard drive, or render images in 3D.
Most DVD's aren't worth owning. I don't want to spend $40 or so on a DVD unless it's the type of thing I think I'll come back to again and again, like I did with T2. However, I do rent quite a few DVD's. And what Warner Bros. basically did was try to take that right away from me by jacking up the prices on their DVD's specifically for rental stores. That was not right. Tough noogies if WB doesn't get money for each rental. If their content isn't worth owning, that's their fault. Don't punish the consumers for it.
I do have concerns of the ramifications this might have in the future, though. So far, I'm encouraged though. By defining DVD's as movies, then movie rights are seperate from Software rights. At least Warner Bros. can't grease up some politician to take movie rights away that affect how I use software.
"Derp de derp."
uh, australia? what the fook does that have to do with the United States?
:-)
Speaking as an Australian, I hold some hope your painfully US-centric attitude can be rectified.
Last time I checked , we were using something loosely defined as the World-Wide-Web , not the United-States-Web, so I think it is entirely relevant, as one day a reference to this particular decision could help you.
Your comment portrays a bad image of the U.S. to the rest of the world. Wake up. The sun does not shine out of the US's collective posterior.
Don't make me have to come over there and kick your ass to prove it
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
It seems pretty strange to me since DVD is an acronym for Digital V ersatile Disk... :)
Classifying it as film only goes against the very name of the medium
Versatile: adj.
1) Capable of doing many things competently.
2) Having varied uses or serving many functions.
SYNONYMS: All-around, many-sided, multifaceted, multifarious. These adjectives mean having many aspects, uses, or abilities.
But ok, reading the article makes it much clearer, and I fully agree - Just because the medium is digital doesn't make it software!
:)
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
That's interesting -- I would have guessed that DVD's last longer. VHS tapes are vulnerable to being chewed up by the VCR, and on some old videos that I have the magnetic tape is just wearing out. DVD's avoid both of those problems, but I suppose you're right about the scratching
In my experience DVD's are a lot easier to damage than a Videotape. but DVD's, if taken care of, will last a lot longer.
Video's will deterioate, DVD's will not, however, droping a video on the ground does little damage to a Video, a DVD is a different matter, and I've seen the way some people treat rentals.
Leg Godt!
...to summarize:
"Dear MPAA, fuck you. We know you think of consumers as cattle that you can harvest when you need more meat, but this time you lose.
So fuck you and your children"
Signed,
The Australian Court System
And of course, if it's small-lot stuff that has to be shipped from overseas, *dingdingding*. Watch the dollars rack up. Australia is still a long haul from America and Europe, even in this modern age of jet aircraft. I'd love to buy some books from the US that I can't get over here, but the price of shipping is higher than the price of the books! (and considering the high price of books in Aus... I really want print-on-demand). Same applies to a lot of computer hardware (monitors, drives, boards, cpus, etc - all made in places far far away from Down Under).
Heh. Yeah, it's one of the nicer places in the world to live, in terms of both scenery and culture. Hey, just because nine of the ten most venomous critters on the planet call Australia home, doesn't mean you can't too.(seriously, the chances of getting fatally bit/clawed/stung by one of those critters is amazingly remote unless you do something really stupid or careless - or if you are named Steve Irwin and play with 'em for a living)
That cannot be a serious post. Reread it and whisper in your head I have been trolled... I have been trolled... If that writer wrote that in all seriousness then I will eat my socks!
But CowboyNeal invented science!
I'm not asking this as a rhetorical question. I simply don't understand the guts of the case and am hoping that someone will explain.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
What's really a shame is that this exact post was already done for Linux and its costs, and unfortunately, it is all true for Linux.
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the spyware and virus that some DVD contain usually can only infect you if you 'Install' The DVD as in add-remove progams install so that you can launch the DVD from the start menu Which is insane but many DVDs Instruct PC users to play the DVD movies that way which is crazy what's wron with running PowerDVD and just Watchign the famn film without some 'special' player or adding a useless menu item to your start menu?
I hope that someone can take it one step further and gain a ruling that DVDs legally purchased anywhere else in the world can be played legally in Australia
DVDs legally purchased anywhere can be played legally in Australia. You just forgot to buy and import a player from that region when you bought the DVD.
Next time, get your fact straight, and argue that it's annoying to have to buy a player from each region.
"Well what about DVD's with software AND movies?"
Well, Mr. Fucking Einstein, if you're so curious, why don't you give us an example of this fantastic movie and software format you've seen.
Presumably, it came from direct from Muhammed's Ass to be so throughly perfect to be both software and a movie. most DVD get by by being a simple "motion picture", but you've seen the anal seeping of a living god, and you can't think of the name of this wonderfully complex piece of perfect plastic with an aluminum reflective surface?
excuse me? I mean, you would probably read the magna carta and say "I just read a legal thingy that seemed pretty important, no?".
Christ. Obvious smacks you in the face and you don't know you were hit.
Save us from morons...
It would probablly come down to the primary purpose of the DVD. If the DVD is a movie, is someone buying it for the crappy "PC extras"? Of course not. They're buying it for the movie.
heheeh. You said Steve Irwin.
CROIKEY!
I rented the fancy 2 disk Fight Club on DVD. Not only had someone used the second disk as a coaster, but they'd coastered something that burned a melted ring into the disk surface. And I'm not talking about the label side.
Blockbuster's response: "Well... Uhh... Does it play?"
Uhm - here's a hint:
On some DVD's there are actually a DVD PLAYER (by gosh, that's a piece of SOFTWARE). This player is bundled with the movie, just in case the person using the DVD doesn't have a player installed on her/his computer.
Now, maybe you shouldn't be using such foul language, when you're obviously describing yourself.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
DVDs are not more prone to deterioration. While i have seen a number of rental places that laminate the top of the disc (for single side releases) most minor scratches on the bottom can be easily repaired with appropriate materials and equipment. My favorite tools are a nice car-wax sponge and carnuba wax, since virtually any well stocked auto store already have these available at a commodity price.
You're sick, she's underage (twelve-year-old).
On a slightly related note, I saw a Radio Shack in the big downtown mall with a demo machine running some kind of media player. It was playing Shrek, with the playlist reading Shrek DVD-RIP-SUP...
Just thought I'd like to share.
(if this gets modded up I will know for sure the mods are on crack)
I was involved in this case as an expert witness, so, if anyone has questions I'd be happy to answer them.
I mean, if things in Australia are like they are in the US, Blockbuster still charges a premium for DVD rental
Blockbuster deserves its own special category. Luckily even while the range of censored mainstream titles might be larger at blockbuster, over here (.au) they charge a lot more than your local video store.
The local store can also carry the uncensored films, and the more interesting films rejected by Blockbuster.
I havn't seen a blockbuster go broke yet.. but hopefully one day.
So in reality, its more like
Australian Consumer: 1
Independant Video Rental: 1
Warner & Friends: 0
---
Silence is consent.
There's a difference between deterioration from use and deterioration from abuse. Rub your VHS cassete with sandpaper and it stays fine. Rub the tape inside it by playing it in the VCR alot and it'll turn to crap. I've yet to hear of the lasers in DVD players wearing out whatever the ones and zeros are stored on.
The original poster has a point, he just chose to word it poorly. I'd expect VHS tapes to last much longer than DVDs (my local stores have some from the 80s, maybe earlier) simply because people can treat them like trash and they'll still work. I have friends who just leave stacks and stacks of CDs or DVDs on their computer desks or living room floor.
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
There is nothing in our law stating that it is illegal to play region one DVD's in region 4. The whole region encoding thing is nothing more than a matter of standards compliance. It has no real legal basis. If it did, then you wouldn't be able to buy region 1 or region free players in Harvey Norman would you?
Ray.
Two key points: (1) this is a big victory for consumers in the realm of fair use, and (2) it helps keep a big media company's power in check, at least in this instance.
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
As long as we are talking about video DVDs, this makes complete sense. Sure, DVDs have interactive programs on there, but you do not install anything; you just play them, the same as a CD. When it comes to DVDs for games and whatever that require some installation, then they had better classify them as software. If it's a DVD sold in a movie store or sold as a movie, it shouldn't be labeled software.
Heck, DVDs are expensive enough for movies. They expect to raise the price and acutally sell them?
uh, australia? what the fook does that have to do with the United States?
Isn't it obvious? He's a kiwi and sick of always hearing about those loud bastards across the tasman !
My washing machine has a embedded processor and software, so by your argument my washingmachine is software.
Get real dude, 99.9% (?) of a dvd is the movie, any software binaries that come with it are just ancillary stuff.
Of all the trivializing titles in the world, I think "content producer" is rather near the top.
You can't expect jargon to mean the same as the colloquial word. In the entertainment industry, "content" is simply jargon for "copyrighted works," and "producer" is the manager of a project who is responsible for hiring and firing.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The lense will make contact with the disc. Just listen to the drive when a disk is in vs when its just spinning the motor.
What shill asked you to spout this crock of crap?
"By declaring this practise illegal, I'm afraid Australia could be severely stifling the incentive of movie companies to include special DVD-only features. This move doesn't benefit anyone"
What part of "120% increase" in price failed to register with you? what part of "would have forced some (Video Rental Stores) Out of business" did you fail to read? Sounds quite likely to me that
1. The Video Rental association in question only sued because, well the new contracts would have forced some of thier people out of business
2. Consumers win in this case because the extra costs of getting DVD's (the 120% increase mentioned) to rent will not be passed on to them...
3. Your argument that it's software fails on a few marks. Consider this. Is a Music CD, simply a "Music CD" or is it software? Replace VHS with Tape Cassettes, and DVD with "Music CD" in your argument. Are Music CD's (in particular the "Enhanced" or HyperCD's) Software or music? Even the RIAA considers them Music..(for many reasons, the AHRA (Home Recording act) amoung others).
4. Your statment "Australia could be severely stifling the incentive of movie companies to include special DVD-only features", leads to a strawman argument. Simply put, The move means that Warner (and other companies) will only be able to charge what is fair and reasonable, rather than a forced $55 per DVD, they still make money, they still can increase the price, but they can't lock the Rental houses in.
But ignoring that...It really doesn't matter a rats ass if it hurts the Movie rental industry, what DOES matter is, *Is the Practice (Contract in this case) Legal*, guess what, the courts said NO.
What caught my eye about your post is that it reads like the script that most of our Corporate attorneys spout.
Bugs Bunny was right.
GTA3 is being re-released here on Feb 15th, one cut scene removed/modified.
Simple. If they'r formatted as DVD-Video, they're movies with a twist. If they're formatted as DVD-ROMS, they're software that happens to contain motion pictures.
DVDs aren't like CDs. AFAIK, both DVD-ROM discs and DVD-Video discs are formatted in UDF; DVD-Video is simply a standard for the names, formats, and encryption of some files (*.vob and *.ifo). It's perfectly possible to have a folder on a DVD-Video disc containing DVD-ROM data designed for a computer.
Will I retire or break 10K?
We can checkout various software titles at our public library here in my town.
Copyright law makes copious exceptions for non-profit libraries and archives. Blockbuster Video is not a non-profit.
Will I retire or break 10K?
>region coding is _not_ "nasty malicious code."
No, but it certianly is nasty and malicious.
Yes it is code on some titles. These "Region Coding Enhanced" (RCE) discs contain valid content for all regions, but in all but the "correct" region the content is only "Wrong region" (confusing region-free players), and in the "correct" region there's a menu program that reads the player's make and model, and if it's a model known to be region-switchable or too easy to to modify to get rid of Macrovision or region lockout), the disc won't play.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Wow and apples are apples, oranges are oranges.
Who the hell thought they could get away with that?!?! damn.
But... What about the glorious organ known as.. the Mangina?
Let's all take a minute to go back and read the article people. This case was more about copyright law then about DVD movies as software (which they are, come to think about it - depending on your definition of hard/software and 'is' is.) When you consider how DVDs are distributed in the US, you see that what the Australian's were doing would be ILLEGAL in America. The DVDs we buy here (for home use) are not for commercial use and thus cost (an inflated, IHMO) $24.00. DVDs for commercial use (almost exactly the same content) cost rental outlets more. Anybody reading the article (and living Stateside) should have recognized this.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
There is nothing in our law stating that it is illegal to play region one DVD's in region 4. The whole region encoding thing is nothing more than a matter of standards compliance.
Except the typical terms for the CSS licence amount to "If you don't comply with the standard, including the region coding and Macrovision® encoding, you lose your CSS keys on all future titles, and we have paid your Parliament millions of monetary units to get an equivalent to the American DMCA with a few SSSCA provisions thrown in with that, so the only way you can DeCSS discs is through this license, nyeh!"
If it did, then you wouldn't be able to buy region 1 or region free players in Harvey Norman would you?
The MPAA is probably already buying laws making it illegal to ship DVD-Video titles or players outside of their respective regions.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Err, I don't exactly see where anyone said "the US is the best" or where I refuted it but, hey, if you want to see something that's not there then that's your prerogative. But, if you want clarity, I'll try to give it to you.
Saying "the US is the best" is not a racist. But saying that "everything we do is great, everything you do sucks, not that what you do matters anyhow, and stop claiming credit for anything half-decent you lying foreigner" is racist.
Perhaps you would be more comfortable if I used the word xenophobic but racist is just as accurate a description for what the Anonymous Coward had to say.
And before you get on your high horse, racism doesn't have to be about skin colour. Here are a couple of nice dictionary definitions for you:
racism (n)
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
race (n)
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology
a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.
Hope that clears things up for you.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
If the courts actually decide that it doesn't and that EULAs are binding (i.e. click-through/assumed agreements, obviously signed contracts for enterprise software ARE binding by contract law)
If you buy anything by credit card face-to-face, the EULA can be assumed to be binding, as you have signed the charge slip, and some crafty lawyer could probably twist that into having signed the EULA.
It's already been established that code is more or less equivalent to speech (no that's not a legal statement but a common sense translation), at least here in the US.
If it's not speech, then it'll have a real hard time qualifying as a Section 102 literary work under U.S. copyright law.
Nevertheless, the argument that a DVD *is* software is absurd - a DVD-Movie is data for a fixed playback algorithm.
Likewise, the argument that a computer program *is* software is absurd - a Windows-Executable is data for a fixed interpreter algorithm, encoded in the hardware of the AMD Athlon and Intel Pentium IV processors.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I saw a blurb on CNN last night where the RIAA made a claim that MP3 trading (like Napster) cost them four billion dollars. I think their math is based on "everybody that has MP3 is worth the CD that it was on."
I just don't think they can make this claim. What's going on with MP3 trading is not so much piracy, but demand for a new type of service. People want individual songs, not over-priced CD's full of crap. They want it on a non-CD media so they don't have to juggle CD's. And finally, they don't want to have to look very hard to find it. You'd have thought somebody would have said "hmm.. there's demand here, we should fill it!".
Then the RIAA would have created a business model for purchase and download of MP3's. If they had done that, I'd understand if their case that Napster is costing them money. But they're not even in that market, instead they're trying to sue it out of existence. Ever wonder if phone companies tried to sue cell phone companies?
The market has spoken about what it wants, and the RIAA is stupid enough to try to fight it. The movie industry is going to learn a harsh lesson too if they follow suit. People want to rent DVD's instead of buying them. Their best bet is to make the content on the DVD's worth owning. Compete with the rental companies by being better than them. Man I'm so glad Warner Brothers lost that case.
"Derp de derp."
As far as I know, the fist sale doctrine has never been applied to software. I don't think that any of the "no resale" clauses of many EULAs has been contested in court.
Unfortunately, it has. This very flawed decision set a precedent in some jurisdictions that 17 USC 117 applies only when the owner of a particular copy says it does. If you merely "possess" a copy of software, but somebody else owns the physical copy (in cases such as rental), some jurisdictions say that the owner of a copy of a work has the right not to license the rights under 17 USC 117 to the person merely in possession of the copy. And software publishers claim under some EULAs to transact a perpetual rental rather than a sale of a copy.
Will I retire or break 10K?
" DVD media will eventually drop in price as the technology is more refined and VHS is gradually deprecated and eliminated from the marketplace. "'
Something similiar was said about CDs when they first came out, and cassettes reined. Wonder when that "drop" is going to happen?
On a slightly aside. I've noticed that when you play a movie using Interact vs PowerDVD (or similiar). Some of the things you see are different. That new Jackie Chan/Chris Rock movie for example.
This is an american page right??? Are you sure? Cause it seems to me that a lot of Australian content is getting on this page. This is all fine and dandy, most of these stories are good and all. I just have to ask, why is so much shit going down in Australia.
" Most of my movie renting was done in Bumblefuck, Minnesota, where I went to college for a couple of years. "
Wow! Truth in advertising. No wonder it cost so much.
At first glance, I found this to be an interesting story on its own, because of the way it addresses the boundaries that the digital world is creating as it goes. But in another way, it's also the most boring story I've ever heard, in that this is the most predictable storyline you could come across. It's being repeated all over the industry:
1. New format for distribution threatens company that used to make easy profits without much innovation.
2. Company seeks to sue/tax/threaten promoters of new technology for infringing on its rights to make a profit.
3. Consumers/users actually like new format, saves them money, time.
4. Company actually ends up shooting self in foot, because its entrenched in old technology, refuses to embrace new opportunity. 5. Users adopt new technology anyway, leaving company in the dust.
I mean really, can't we do something different for once? Let's get over our petty interests, and have some vision, maybe? This has been / is being repeated everywhere you look: Napster vs recording companies, internet phone calls vs telecom companies, hybrid cars vs US car companies, xerox copiers vs carbon paper manufacturers, robots vs assembly line workers, Gutenberg vs monks...
If Blockbuster censors mainstream R-rated movies that would suck (among other reasons). But if nothing else that guarantees that your friendly neighborhood video store will never be completely replaced by Blockbuster/Hollywood. Where else will you get your porn and your *gasp* uncut R-rated movies?
And the other reasons they suck? Expensive, long slow lines, and always runs out of movies on the weekends.
Actually, price descrimination can be a good thing. For example, price descrimination is largely responsible for the availability of cheap airline tickets and airline tickets being generally available on short notice. Without price descrimination, you'd likely have a situation where you'd pay more than the cheapest fares these days and/or there'd be no seats available for the last minute traveller.
The DVD region system was a good idea, but it's poorly implemented. It's supposed to allow cheap DVDs to be sold in places like India without affecting the market in the US and Europe. Without it, DVDs would probably never be released in India at all, or they'd be released there at the same price as in the US and the middle class wouldn't be able to afford them. I don't see how either of these outcomes is better than $5 DVDs that only work in local DVD players.
Same applies to a lot of computer hardware (monitors, drives, boards, cpus, etc - all made in places far far away from Down Under). Yeah like Malaysia, Taiwan, China, Singapore and Japan.
Just listen to the drive when a disk is in vs when its just spinning the motor.
You can't be serious? That sound is not the lens scraping the disc. That's the motor working harder because the disc give it a higher moment of inertia -- more weight to accelerate and keep at speed.
I think you have misunderstood. I'm an Aussie and the problem was not in charging whatever the producer thought was fair for the product. The company wants to charge different prices to different customers for the same product. In Australian law you can charge whatever you think is a marketable price for your goods and you can change that price as you like. You cannot charge different prices to different markets for the same product.
DISCLAIMER: i am australian
The real issues in this case was that Warner decided to create a tiered system for DVD rental. Retail DVDs where marked as such and sold for standard prices (around $30 or so AUD, which is quite reasonable). Rental DVDs were at least double the price, and the publisher said that it was illegal to use retail movies for rental purposes. Big copyright notices and disclaimers are places in all retails movies to ensure that consumers are alered to the legalities if they rent one.
The effect of this was that the big coroprate rental shops (Blockbuster and VideoEzy among very few others) bore the cost, but the smaller and local rental places could not afford the new system and their business was threatend.
This smaller rental shops are the ones who took legal action.
technoshamanic resistance within hyper-transgressive ontology
The reason I could support something similar to what WB was trying to do, is that I could support the concept of limiting some of the traditional rights during a rental "situation". This was what Rep. Boucher was trying to accomplish with his DMCA clause.
Of course the actual result of that DMCA clause turned out to be another total victory for the recording industry. It was supposed to protect rental movies from being copied, by making it mandatory for all VCR's to recognize MacroVision/CopyGuard. The industry promptly screwed the consumers by using this copy protection in all movies sold, not just the rental versions.
Still, I could almost support the scheme of two types of movies: bought and rental. The reality is that this probably won't work for a number of reasons, the classic reasons cited in the article is that the "rental version" ends-up being more expensive, so rental stores use consumer versions instead.
Another practical reason why this would probably not work, is that the recording industry has proved time and again that they are totally untrustworthy! I have to stretch to come-up with an example of an industry that is more sleazy (have to drop into organized crime like loan sharking and illegal immigrant smugglers).
that's where my holiday footage went!
I meant "far far away" in more than just a geographical sense. Australia, AFAIK, doesn't have a "Silicon Valley" of its own as far as consumer-level electronics and associated IP revenue goes. Name an electronics multinational on a par with an Intel (America) or a Sony (Asia) that calls the Australian continent home...
So? At least I would die knowing that I made the morally right choice back then.
Meeting violence with violence is barbaric and only breeds more death and destruction. You cannot kill terrorism with bombs.
The owls are not what they seem
Generally, DVD rental prices seem to be much lower than VHS in the places I've seen (Lane Cove for example).
Of course, it's been ages since I've been in a video rental shop, so I'm not an authority. However, I remember the prices were along the lines of $3/night for new releases, compared to about $6/night for new VHS releases.
Even when you take into account large numbers of rental DVDs being heavily scratched, costs should still be much lower with DVDs.
1. DVDs cost much less to manufacture in bulk.
2. DVDs take up much less storage space.
3. It is very easy to keep a large number of spare copies of a DVD.
You only need as many covers as you will rent at any one time (hell, you don't even need that, as most places use a standard white case for customers to take home, and just display one real cover per shelf spot). You can then keep 100 extra copies of the actual DVD, and if a disc comes back unusable, simply replace it. Once a release is no longer new (and thus moves to only one or two shelf spots) almost all the discs get returned (including damaged ones), or sold as ex-rental (only for those they have enough covers for).
Of course, I don't know if this is how they *are* doing it, but it's definitely how it *should* be done.
Try it with a thiner disk. At some point you get no noise. Service manuals for CD players used to tell you what distace the head at for proper pressure on the disc.
Unfortunately it is not possible to keep a huge number of extra copies around due to the cost of buying those copies (and the risk of not being able to recoup that cost). So most places seem to have fairly limited numbers of spares and keeping them out of covers probably contributes to the scratching problems. The best solution would be for the distributors to replace damage discs, but I can't see that happening unless it becomes a big PR issue. More likely the rental places will try to charge people returning damaged discs.
The subject of this judgement was not whether a dvd is a movie or software, it is about Time Warner using its larger size to extort extra money from the movie rental stores. (ie not allowing video stores to rent out the cheaper DVDs, but selling them others DVDs with the same qualities for a greatly increased price)
In Australia it is against the law for a company to interfere with any retailers pricing schemes. This is in order to encourage competition, and prevent price fixing, and also gives the same power to any individual that would be given to a company.
In Australia we have an Act to ensure the rights of all parties in any agreement are all an the same footing, and can be found here
To my knowlegde this exists nowhere else in the world, so it seems, once again that Australia is the fairest country in the world.
In Australia, it would be illegal, to restrict the sales of other region and multi region players, due to Trade practices act which forbids unfair or anti competitive acts. all it would take is a few days and a decent lawyer to get it repealed. http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/comact/browse/TOC TR.htm
props to people like you WIAKywbfatw!
thats pretty sweet :)
its 5 bucks canadian here for to rent a dvd and 2 bucks to rent vhs
~me
for a video rental store to buy a dvd to put on its shelf, they're generally not allowed to just walk into a futureshop or hmv and pick it off the shelves for normal price. no, they have to buy 'special rentable' dvds even though its usually the exact same thing
I think my aunt had said its like 50-75$ canadian for most dvds (she runs a small rental business). So yes, it is cheaper for them to buy a dvd than a tape, but itst not as cheap as you think...
~me
DOn't know about other places in Australia, but in Melbourne the rental prices for DVD's are significantly lower than for the same VHS. Something about better reliability, and more second hand resale value.
Thinking all this time that DVD's CD's, video tapes, ZIP disks and the like were all forms of media, while overhyped overbudget creative endeavors featuring self-absorbed celebrities in questionable plots using questionable diaglog were movies, and overhyped creative endeavors that never leave beta and crash my computer were software.
Obviously I didn't consider the legal definition.
Everyone who thinks it's time law schools require at least three logic courses, please raise your hands.
I mean there's a long way between
- DVD with nothing but menus
- DVD with some add-on apps (screen savers etc.)
- DVD *and* a solid app. Harry Potter DVD + Harry Potter game? Could have happened. Won't, but could be.
- DVD wtih an application like Premiere, with some example trailers
- Pure application DVD
Where does it stop being a movie and start being software, when can you sell it under the first sale doctrine, when would an EULA of no resale be binding? I'm curious at least.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
At least this shows that there are some sensible people involved in making legal juddements in this world, and not being lead by the corporations.
Now we just need to see the judgement for the BT/Prodigy hyperlink case. British Telecom's Hyperlink Claims To Reach U.S. Court
Anyone On Line...
and you might even lose a few pounds when you take them back to the gym!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
That's also at the store within walking distance.
for the people I know in Australia the shop (any shop!) is at least 3 hours walk away!
So by the time you've walked to the shop and back that's 6 hours gone, watch the movie, bring it back, wow nearly 14 hours to watch a movie!
all made in places far far away from Down like Taiwan, China, Malasia!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I got the idea that the whole point with WB was to try to push two versions of the DVDs: one for rental and one for resale.
I live in Finland and, curiously, this is the way we've always had it. The DVD I rent from shop down the street has a text in the cover saying "For rental only. If you've bought this DVD, call xxxxx". The DVD I buy has a cover text saying "reselling, renting, copying and public presentation of this movie is prohibited."
Still, the video and DVD rental prices are exactly the same (3 EUR)!
It will probably benefit consumers in the long run if only to keep software style EULAs away from DVD movies.
"On some DVD's there are actually a DVD PLAYER "
Not a functioning one. If you'll notice, all of them assume you've bought the actual decrypting software from someone else.
So perhaps the original poster's comments about Muhammed's nether regions are still valid?
Does this mean Region Code Enhancement [...] scripting [...] would be banned in Oz?
No, it just means scripting isn't considered software, which we all knew already. Sorry, kiddies.
I disagree. DVDs may be more prone to damage, but if you're careful with them and don't damage them, they won't deteriorate. With tapes, on the other hand, deterioration is inevitable and has nothing to do with how careful you are.
IMO, jewel cases are a hassle and a waste of space for the mostly minimal protection they provide (as long as you're not transporting them or constantly handling them out of the player). I've actually taken to storing most of my CDs in old CD-R spindles, since I've already ripped/backed-up the content, and since I'm not the type who needs to showcase my collection for friends to gawk at.
I would be doing the same for my few DVDs, except that I can't make cheap backups of 'em, so I can't risk scratches due to dirt getting between them on a spindle... though... maybe a layer of felt per would work...
Anyone manufacture something like this? a "super spindle" ... with tabs for indexing?
--
Power to the Peaceful
Data is actually stored on the reverse of the label and not the plastic underneath. Get a blank or useless cd and scratch off the label, and you'll see the shiny surface on the reverse :o) Watch out thoough, it tends to end up like confetti
My point is, what do we consider a DVD containing actual software to be, since it has been previously ruled that DVDs are in fact NOT software?
if you can backup your cd's to mp3, why cant you just rip your DVD's to Divx across 2 cd's? That's what I do. I reencode to SVCD format so i can pop it myu dvd player instead of playing on my computer and the difference in quality from the higher compresion is hardly noticable just like with mp3.
Before you bitch about the quality of the DVD and how it sucks... You should try watching some old HK movies. The older stuff wasn't exactly filmed using high quality cameras... Much of the "older" HK stuff uses like B-rated movie type equipment. And you all know how good the dubbing is.... ;) Those 5 dollar DVD's were probably just a straight copy of some 10 year old archival tape, stuck onto DVD>
So, no, I don't consider divx or multiple svcd disks a worthy backup of a DVD; only the original will do (until I can buy a cheap DVD-R burner).
--
Power to the Peaceful
IIRC, the U.S. has this. There are tiered VHS tapes, one set that sell at your local store for $10-20, and another for the movie rental stores that cost $100. I know that there was a big uproar over The Matrix - if it didn't clear 200$ million, the only VHS copy would be available for rental stores, so you'd have to pay $100 for it. The only difference between the tapes, I believe, was that one had a different "don't show this in public" warning or something like that. Would someone who work(s|ed) at a movie store like to join in?
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
To all those claiming that a DVD is software because it contains logic; my microwave oven must be software because it contains logic in the popcorn mode.
A DVD of a film is not a film in the same sence the a video tape of a film is not a film, but the results are pretty much the same.
You can by these plastic films that just have a ring of gum arround the inner hole. You can stick them on both the front (to stop scratching from fucking up the transperant plastic the laser has to penetrate) & the back (to protect the label that has the track underneath). When the bottom one gets so warn it starts to intefer with the laser tracking, you just peel it off & stick a new one on.
Why isn't Steve Irwin dead yet? Anyone who can one minute say 'This is one of the deadliest snakes in the world' and the next minute say 'Lets pick him up and have a look at him' has definate suicidal tendencies...
...the insanely expensive plane tickets to small places. It's cheaper for me (Germany) to fly to the USA than to fly home (Norway, a little country just north of Germany for you US-centric) because of price discrimination.
...and what made DVDs that different from other media? Don't they sell VHS movies in India? Actually, I'd live with it if the European versions usually hadn't been late, in a worse format, lack extras and on top of it are more expensive. When you force people to pay more *for a late and inferior product* you're begging for trouble.
I don't think MPAA get it. If I can stroll down to the shop and buy a DVD, in a good format, with all the extras the US version has, I'll probably do that. If I can't buy it, but I can get it on DivX (not screener, DVDrip, from a US DVD) or it's a horribly crippled version, I'll screw it and get the DivX. I can deal with living in a rich part of the world and be expected to pay more. But when I'm treated like a second-rate customer, I take offense. Of course I should probably simply not buy DVDs at all, write a letter to WTO and sulk. Uh huh. See you all in the line to get the LotR DVD.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
yeah, BUT, a thinner disk has less mass, which means less inertia.
moox. for a new generation.
Warner contends that the means by which a DVD disc is played, which includes the sequential decompression of the audio, video and caption content and storage in RAM, constitutes a copying of the content.
Reading this line from the court ruling implies to me that I'm allowed to copy all Warner DVD's. Doesn't this make all the DeCSS court cases worthless?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but one has to consider the cost of creating the DVD. Granted, the cost to manufacture the disc is probably less than $5 US, but what about the extra stuff on the DVD? It isn't like VHS, where you just dump the lo-con print to tape, stick some trailers in front of it, and then go manufacture a few thousand. You've got to do the pan-and-scan telecine of the lo-con print, do the widescreen telecine of the lo-con print, put together the "Making of..." stuff, the filmographies, production photos, commentaries, etc.
So I can understand raising the price of each DVD by a few dollars (less than $5), but $25 for a DVD and $10 for the VHS of the same movie? Well, that's pushing it.
However, one still has to remember that if something is being sold for $20 in a store, the store keeps around half of that.
We'll have more crappy software packages on DVD's that refuse to give bonus footage unless we install it on our PC's?
Take the Phantom Menace DVD for example, where you have to either search around for a copy of the quicktime video of the Ep 2 trailers, or install the crappy Interactual software that comes with the DVD in order to access the Starwars.com site preview (of course this also axes Mac/Linux users)...
Since this is a growing trend with any movie company that wants to make the buyers jump through hoops just for a crummy bonus footage shot, I think that the Australian courts should reexamine their stance... Since the DVD holds software *on* the media itself, along *with* a movie, it counts as software *and* video media...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Anyway, I beg to differ. Menus, browsers, and region codes are not code, they're data. The line between code and data is often fuzzy, but these things are well beyond the fuzzy area. There's no programming that the player uploads and executes. (That would present interesting opportunities for virus writers!) It's just information that's used by the logic that already embedded in the player.
Which is not to dispute the "malicious" part of your comment. Indeed, that's why the entertainment industry is so uptight about open-source DVD software. Putting logic where people can hack it makes it more difficult for them to control the data the logic interprets.
I also have to point out that even if we accept your classification, it's a technical classification, not a legal one. Judges tend to classify things according to the way people use them. That's why the tomato is a legal vegetable, though botanically it's a fruit. And people use DVDs for watching movies, so embedded data is neither here nor there. Which is also true for the ID info embedded in MP3 files, the sideband data in analog TV broadcasts, and the recording speed info on VHS tapes.
the difference between right and wrong. It's just too bad that the U.S. government lost sight of the fact that they're supposed to protect consumers from big business, and not the other way around...
Albuquerque PC
It really should be the content of the medium that decides it's classification, not the medium itself. DVD's that contain a single film and whatever other material they choose to pack with it, should be considered a film.
I imagine that this was part of the deciding factor for the judgement but it also means that this will be a continued issue.
When you can start buying the entire Adobe suite of applications on a single DVD, then they can call it software.
Someone please mod this guy down as "-1, Ignorant".
Have you ever torn apart a cd/laserdisc/DVD player? Have you ever watched it play a disc? The laser lens does NOT touch the disc.
Sometimes I hate stupidity. I'm not trying to get on your shit, but come on, don't explain what's in the box if you've obviously never seen what's in the box.
- pan and scan : yep, those of us that purchase DVDs really really find it worth the extra money to have the studio thoughtfully excise about 25% of each and every frame.
- filmographies: yep, advertising fo other movies you might want to buy - we always love to pay extra for advertising
- making of: I'll grant you a half point here, but who really makes the "making of" shorts - they are not made for the express purpose of inclusion in the DVD, so it isn't really an extra cost.
- production photos: oh PUH LEASE!
But the commentaries are a legitimate value add. If I had a choice of two identical DVDs except that one had the commentary adn one did not... Well I'd pay an extra dollar for the commentary.In short, I would expect that the actual production differential between DVD s VHS is pretty close to nil, so I certainly can't see any justificaion for a significantly higher retail prce for DVDs. (Of course the studios need no more justification than the record labels - they will just need 20 years in the US before the FTC determines that they are engaged in price fixing)
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
Maybe you should check out the Discus 40 or 20 at http://www.discgear.com/ Sounds exactly like what you're looking for. I use it to store CDs in my car, and they are wonderful, compact units.
-------------------------------------------------
is that you watched the whole video.
I'm terribly confused. Here in Australia, virtually any VHS casette I've ever purchased states something to the description of of "The copyright proprieter has licensed this video for home use only. Any unauthorised hiring is strictly prohibited." I've always been under the impression that video stores have to obtain a copy that allows hiring (the only difference being the license) at a presumably higher price.
Has something changed with DVD? Is there actually going to be _less_ copyright control over this format than for VHS or am I misinterpreting the court victory?
Why is the Herald only reporting this now? And why is Slashdot only accepting the submission now? This was reported in Australian IT on December 10 (Films aren't software, court rules). It was also submitted to Slashdot, but rejected. Why? What's the bet that this comment gets censored too?
--
Power to the Peaceful
Exactly how these things are defined in law is to a large extent pretty unexplored territory; and nobody should assume it won't change even if an attempt to define it has been made.
But, to put a little perspective on things referred to in this discussion...
If, by "Software" you mean "a computer program", I suppose a DVD-Video disk is software. Exactly where "computer program" begins and "useful information" ends is basically undefined in most jursdictions, so far.
If you take the "digital is special" arguement out of it, you come up with a few conclusions:
A movie is information encoded in a retreivable storage form. So's a book, so's a photograph, so's a sound recording.
To stick with the Movie analogy; a movie is not actors, dialog and a stage; it is information about these things. It is essentially irrelevant what medium is used to store the information. 70mm film, videotape, DVD-Video disk; all the same, whether digital or analog.
Now, if you think all things digital automatically encompass a magical transformation to something MORE than information about other information, you might, like WB, try to change the way the courts view it and probably to increase or change your revenue model. If you think it just a damn movie, obviously this approach won't work.
Clearly the Australian Court decided it was just a damn movie.
I believe that all the governments of the entire world shall rule that region coding, encryption, and the other "digital rights denial" technologies in DVDs are illegal, and rule that not only must they be banned, but that consumers should be encouraged to make copies of DVDs and distribute them. There would be a massive, multitrillion dollar marketing campaign to get people to copy and distribute DVDs. In fact, every DVD you buy should cost one cent, and it should come with 1000 blank recordable DVDs. DVD players would come equipped with a DVD copier which would simultaeously make 10 exact digital duplicates of a DVD in one minute. Each copy made by a consumer would allow him to claim a $1,000 tax deduction. And if you make 10,000 or more total copies of DVDs in a year, you automatically don't pay taxes, and get all your taxes refunded for the past 10 years, or 100,000 dollars, whichever is greater. To cover for this, the entertainment industry would repay the government all that money, with interest, penalties, and interest on the penalties. Finally, these laws would apply to music as well.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but if the lens on your CD player is touching the disc, you need to have it serviced. I've been on the design team for a few optical media devices and that's not the way they're designed. There is air space between the lens and the plastic of the CD. CDs wouln't last very long if there wasn't.
(example, take a sheet of paper and rub it around the axis on the data side of a CD... then put it in a CD player and try to play it. You notice how the CD cleaning cloths always say to rub from the center to the outside, you really don't need long grooves right above the data.)
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
News: One of many stories on the decision
The full text of the decision
Used to be Slashdot folks were on top of things.
proving once again that you do not have any capacity for will power, in which to employ to decide that if the price (money, ethical cost, etc) is too high that you can do without... but also we have the situation once again, that priority setting is something of an enigma as well. Way to go
Of course DVD's are film, not software. Really, guys, there are more important things going on in Sydney right now: http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/28/sport/sport100. html :)
chapter 12 of the DMCA provides for the reverse engineering of "software" to create compatibility with other software (I.E. to allow word perfect to read MS word files).
If DVDs are software, as WB claims, then they ruin the merit of their lawsuits against the distributers, publishers, and creators of DeCSS "software"
Hence their inherent evilness! (Just joking).
But, of course no one who knows anything about the web actually uses AOL.
But I did read the actual decision provided by another poster (earlier in the thread).
My interpretation could be off (I always seem to read legalese different from real laywers) but...
The Judge defined software, copyright, etc as it applies in Australian Law.
Both parties agreed you could rent DVDs.
Both parties agreed to the study of 2 titles as representative of all video DVDs.
Australian Law prohibits the rental of software.
The Judge spent some time going over the definition of software, and in particular that it is a set of instructions which produces a result.
You must be able to define the result; for example it does not follow that every result is protected by the same license/copyright. An analogy might be "Adobe doesn't own every work created in PhotoShop".
He found that the SW is nothing more than what is encompassed in the DVD-Video specifications, and controls play, stop, etc. He also found that if there is no movie, the sw does nothing (no result). I think this might have been the case-breaker for WB, but I'll leave that to real lawyers. He therefore concluded that it is the movie and not the sw the consumer is intending to rent.
He found that storage of data in memory (what a DVD player does) did not constitute copying of SW because the data is not normally accessable; is briefly stored and constantly replaced over the course of watching the film in real time. He agreed a computer along with additional SW (ie. SW not used to simply view the movie on a computer) could be used to do so but concluded it did not represent the intended use of most consumers when they rent.
They also analized the data and determined how many bits were sw and movie (about 5/95); and concluded the sw component is incidental to the use by consumers.
He considered the many additional features of DVD over VHS but concluded it was merely part of the format. The format allows for all kinds of information to be stored, and they defined DVD-Audio, data, MPEG-2, and others.
In Australia, it would be illegal, to restrict the sales of other region and multi region players, due to Trade practices act which forbids unfair or anti competitive acts. all it would take is a few days and a decent lawyer to get it repealed.
Isn't this act a ratification of Australia's treaty obligations with the rest of the world in the matter of free trade though.?
Since when did they start doing that? Last time I checked, they charge the same for both. (Then again, I can't remember when I last rented a tape...even before I had something that would play DVDs, I didn't rent tapes much.)
(BTW, whoever modded the parent post as flamebait needs to lay off the crack pipe and look up the definition of flamebait.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Of course not, you kill terrorism with stupidity, like stopping the SpiderMan movie.
(posting anonymously to preserve my precious karma)