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The SEC and Fake Investment Sites

An anonymous reader sent in: "Our web-based challenge for the day: find the SEC's fake investment sites! The SEC claims to have seeded the web with fake investment sites in order to teach naive web users and investors about the dangers of believing all you read and investing without research. These sites have telltale signs of online investment fraud, and if people manage to overlook or ignore those issues and attempt to invest money, informs them that they have made an unwise decision. The SEC says that these sites are intended to encourage wise investing decisions, or in more casual terms, to attempt to slap fools upside the head with a cluestick before they lose their money in a real scam. It's an interesting use of the web by a government-related agency."

166 of 453 comments (clear)

  1. Rock on SEC!!! by Em+Emalb · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sweet.

    What a cool way to teach the less-informed among us not to trust everything just because it's on the web. Now, if we could get websites out there that ask for personal info to do the same, ie:

    Enter your credit card info here:

    XXXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXXX

    No Idiot, this site is about my dog skippy, there is no need for you to hand this over. Now get off the web and find a clue. (Hint: your 10 year old child is more web-savvy than you)

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:Rock on SEC!!! by MaxVlast · · Score: 2

      It didn't work--I entered everything twice to make sure it wasn't my error. Crappy site you refer us to!

      --
      There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
  2. Here's one! by daeley · · Score: 5, Funny
    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    1. Re:Here's one! by WillSeattle · · Score: 5, Funny

      http://www.enron.com/corp/

      Nah, that's the one the White House put up.

      We're looking for the SEC ones.

      --
      --- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
    2. Re:Here's one! by Azog · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the first thing that came to my mind was:

      Finally! A real explanation for ZeoSync!

      (For those who haven't been keeping up, ZeoSync is the company that claims to have broken / bypassed Shannon's laws of information entropy to create some sort of encoding or compression that can compress random data. Except that they don't call it compression - they call it "Information Crystals" or something equally stupid.)

      I asked for and got ZeoSync's Investors Package, and it truly has some strange stuff in it... they are suing some previous employees, have some financial stuff that looks weird even to me (I know very little about corporate finance), and those computer scientists that are so prominently featured on their web site are not actually associated with the company - ZeoSync just paid them (an unspecified amount) for some sort of unspecified consulting. Basically meaningless.

      They admit in the fine print that the alleged "technology" has never been demoed to anyone outside the company...

      Really, I would not be surprised if ZeoSync was an elaborate ruse to teach gullible investors a lesson.

      --
      Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
      "HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
    3. Re:Here's one! by Danse · · Score: 2

      Enron was too far gone for them to do much of anything. Except possibly keep quiet about the whole thing while the execs bailed out and the employees got shafted.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  3. whois mcwhortle.com by molo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Shouldn't be too hard to find.


    Registrant:
    SEC (MCWHORTLE-DOM)
    6432 GENERAL GREEN WAY
    ALEXANDRIA, VA 22312
    US

    Domain Name: MCWHORTLE.COM

    Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
    SEC (VMGSFHPWCO) webmaster@mcwhortle.com
    SEC
    6432 GENERAL GREEN WAY
    ALEXANDRIA, VA 22312
    US
    202 824 5151 fax: 202 504 2477

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    1. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by ftobin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On their About page, they have an image of their building. The sign on the building is a sorry attempt at making it look seamless.

      I wonder which building is pictured, anyways. Maybe all the SEC's 'scam sites' use the same buildling.

      Doing a Google search for 'mcwhorgle', one finds out that the SEC even got Yahoo to have a length article on the SEC pre-approving its IPO. Interesting that they put that much work into it.

    2. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by CMiYC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well yeah for you, me, and most of the slashdot population. We know what whois is... in fact, if anyone is like me, they do a whois whenever something seem fishy about a website. However, what about some joe-shmo looking for someplace to put his money? He's still trying to figure out why he can't get the stock symbol for the internet company.

    3. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by chachi5000 · · Score: 2, Funny

      there is a video feed of the McWhortle CEO on the Yahoo - http://www.videonewswire.com/event.asp?id=2952

    4. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by ajs · · Score: 3, Informative

      You've got to understand, this isn't "Yahoo". You're just looking at PR Newswire, which is a dumping ground for anyone to send in advertisements (er, "press-releases") for a fee.

      This is one of the many tactics that I would *expect* of a competent scammer.

    5. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by bughunter · · Score: 2
      Well, I wouldn't have found it if you hadn't pointed out the domain, but their product info is a dead giveaway:

      • Now, for the first time, McWhortle Enterprises is offering a product to the general public: the new Bio-Hazard Alert Detector. Running quietly on two double-A batteries, the Bio-Hazard Alert Detector emits an audible beep and flashes when in the presence of all known bio-hazards. The Bio-Hazard Alert Detector, measuring only 3 by 7 inches, is small enough to slip into a man's jacket pocket, a woman's purse or a child's backpack.
      Utter bogosity. My employer has been working with ORNL for a decade on bringing portable chem and bio agent detectors to market, and even after a decade, they're barely small enough to fit in a trunk. And they require a lot of power... two 12V car batteries. Not to mention that no single sensor technology is suitable for detecting all agents...

      Also, this should set off anyone's alarms:

      • It can detect even the finest-milled, weapons-grade biohazards from 50 feet, long before the risk of inhalation or cutaneous infection, by testing for the distinctive surface leptins. Proven effective to just .02 microns per cubic meter of air,
      First of all, the implied sensitivity requires an in situ device, making detection from 50 feet impossible. But the real zit on this thing's nose is the laughable misuse of units... microns per unit volume? That reduces to nothing per unit area -- pure nonsense. I've seen better technobabble on episodes of ST:TNG.

      But it may be fun to float the URL around the company here and see who spots the fnord first!

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    6. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      I submitted this site to slashdot, complete with the bait "too bad the thing runs Windows CE". Unfortunately, it got through the wonderful fact checking of the slashdot crew.

    7. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by dgoodman · · Score: 2

      After Google performs its next crawl, we only have to search for text from this page, and voila!

    8. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by jea6 · · Score: 2

      Mod this up! The audio feed is VERY funny. What idiots fall for this? "Our clients have been giving them to their children." Oh, the title of the window reads, 'SEC Presentation'. Mistake?

      --

      sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    9. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by ftobin · · Score: 2

      Has anyone called the phone number listed in the newswire? The contact information is:

      Kelly Green
      Investor Relations Manager
      McWhortle Enterprises, Inc.
      (202) 824-5151

      Google didn't provide any relevant hits for the phone number.

    10. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by jesser · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I find it disturbing that Yahoo includes these press releases in its biz.yahoo.com site. Until now, I assumed that if Yahoo was a reliable news source. I'm aware that press releases usually have heavy bias, but I would expect Yahoo to verify that the company exists and that claims of facts such as "SEC 'Pre-Approves' IPO" were actually true.

      If Yahoo wants to protect its reputation while running unverified press releases, it should put text near the top of each PRNewswire article saying "PRNewswire does not run background checks on companies, nor does it check claims of facts for validity."

      --
      The shareholder is always right.
    11. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by ahde · · Score: 2

      yeah, they should make a law about it

    12. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 2

      "I've seen better technobabble on episodes of ST:TNG."

      That's because ST is for geeks. Technical scams are for non-technical chumps.

      -Paul Komarek

    13. Re:whois mcwhortle.com by nzhavok · · Score: 2

      I'm wondering what the SEC is going to think when their mcwhorlte.com website experiences the slashdot effect?

      They will probably be able to claim that tens of thousands of unsuspecting netziens were educated in a matter of hours :-)

      --

      He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great
  4. Does a fake investment site mean by jjeffries · · Score: 2

    that I can invest some Monopoly &reg money?

  5. First Clue by chukm · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can picture the site now: Todays' hot stock pick- Buy 1 get one free for ENRON shares.

  6. One one hand... by ZuG · · Score: 3, Insightful
    On one hand, it's kind of nice that the SEC is taking steps to protect people from these kind of scams. It's never pretty when people get ripped off by companies that fabricate stories to potential investors enron .

    On the other hand, though, it's kind of sad that there are people who actually invest in this kind of stuff. One would think that people would be (more) careful when there is real money involved. There are plenty of brokers out there, and while they may not give the *best* advice, they certainly wouldn't direct innocent people toward investments that are ovbiously scams. If you don't know what you're doing with your money, then take it to someone who does. If you don't, you're just asking for trouble.

    On some level, people affected by these scams get what they have coming to them.

  7. Ya know by wiredog · · Score: 5, Funny
    Slashdotting the SEC's just gotta violate some law...

    SEC Computers Catch Fire After During Hacker Attack

    By Joe Snuffy

    Associated Press Writer

    Wednesday, January 30, 2002; 2:45 P.M.

    The SEC headquarters was evacuated today after a form of the denial of service hacking attack, commonly known as "slashdotting" caused their servers to halt and catch fire. The FBI refuses to confirm that it may be seeking one Rob "Commander Taco" Malda for questioning in this terrorist attack on America's financial structure.

  8. My new scam by charon_on_acheron · · Score: 2, Funny

    Design a website with "telltale signs of online investment fraud" and watch how many idiots still try to invest thru it. Then have a warning about how they could have been scammed, but they are lucky Big Brother was looking out for them, and it's not real. Then use the info they gave you to drain their bank accounts, and send an email to them, From: SEC, saying so long, and thanks for all the fish.

    If they even comprehend what happened, they will blame the government, since we all know it's full of crooks anyway.

  9. Um, FTC doing EXACTLY this since 1990's... by backtick · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.gppf.org/events/oswindle.htm Shows the FTC doing the exact same thing and discussing it in the 1990's. Sheesh, stuff from 3-5 years ago isn't exactly new :-)

  10. Great by jd142 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love it. It is a great way to teach people not to trust everything they read on the net. And WhiteKnight, all the info is made up. The SEC made sure that you can't invest in the company or use the made up info to actually lose money. That was in the article.

    We have often joked about doing something similar with viruses. Setting up a hotmail account and sending all the user in our department an attachment. The attachment would write to a log on our network and put up a dialog box that said something like "So you just ran a program from some joker on the internet. You've just lost all your work and your boss has been notified."

    We haven't done it of course, but we dream.

  11. I found one of them by mrroot · · Score: 2, Funny
    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
  12. Re:What ever happened to... by Sarcazmo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It costs, what, maybe $30000 a year for them to run these fake sites? Less? I know I could do something like them in my spare time, I doubt they hired anyone specifically for this, so lets say it costs them $5000 a year, still a high estimate. If just a few people are LARTed by these sites, I think it's worth it. I'm a Libertarian, so I am against all the things the Gov does to try to "protect us from ourselves" too, but this is a cheap and clever way to educate people, and it probably costs less than the production of a single PSA for TV.

  13. old news by devleopard · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    I submitted this on Monday (I mentioned it on my website) I was logged in, not anonymous. So much for logged in users taking precedence over anonymous users :-)

    --
    The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
    1. Re:old news by geekoid · · Score: 2

      man, that sig has got to piss off the monkeys.
      "UUu ahh uuu AAAaaaaAAhhhhEEEE"
      translation:"we would never write that crap, speaking of which, I'm now going to fling some at you!"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  14. Now... the REAL test... by Restil · · Score: 2

    will be when someone "discovers" one of the fake sites, submits it to slashdot, it gets posted (of course), and the comments start rolling in.

    How long will it take before someone comments that its fake. We're quick to point out Xbox emulator fakes when we see them, but would we necessarily discover the nonexistance of a company when its intent is to defraud and not just to boost the false ego of a few misguided geeks.

    So yeah, go find them. And when you find one, don't claim you found one, submit it to slashdot instead. Take the joke all the way! :)

    -Restil

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
  15. Over Subscribed by Brownstar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pre-IPO Investment Oversubscribed!

    McWhortle Enterprises has had to stop accepting investors for Stage 1 of its Pre-IPO investment after the program was over-subscribed by nearly 200%. Because of the enormous demand, we will, for a very limited time, accept new investors into this program.


    Darn it, I was all ready to sign up, but I guess the rest of the slashdot community got to it before me.

    1. Re:Over Subscribed by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Darn. And I had a really big pile of zorkmids from my job as a papershuffler on Flood Control Dam #3 I was all set to send them.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  16. The war by Syberghost · · Score: 5, Funny

    Funny, Bush didn't mention the increased funding for the War on Stupidity last night...

    1. Re:The war by 4of12 · · Score: 2

      Funny, Bush didn't mention the increased funding for the War on Stupidity last night...

      Well, doh - like- uh, Stupidity is one of our most plentiful national assets. Why would we be so much in a hurry to declare a war on stupidity?

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    2. Re:The war by sharkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because Bush is fighting for, rather than against, perhaps?

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    3. Re:The war by JordanH · · Score: 2, Funny
      • Funny, Bush didn't mention the increased funding for the War on Stupidity last night...

      Sure he did. To make sure that the enemy doesn't catch on, the references were encoded so that only really smart people would, uh.

      Oh, uhhmm. You're right. No mention of a new War on Stupidity.

    4. Re:The war by global_diffusion · · Score: 2

      Sadly, it's not that funny. Did anybody read his recent state of the union address? He basically rehashed all the propaganda we've beeb told in the past year.

      Thousands of dangerous killers, schooled in the methods of murder, often supported by outlaw regimes, are now spread throughout the world like ticking time bombs - set to go off without warning.

      Keep the people scared and they'll let us do whatever we want...

  17. Looks like a lot of the Spam I've been getting... by Trekologer · · Score: 2

    If you look at the testimonials, it reads just like the typical MLM/"Not MLM!" scam spams that I've been getting lately, complete with the vague (un)identifying info. But this really begs the question: Why are people stupid enough to fall for these scams in the first place? I am strongly convinced that a majority of Americans are completely braindead.

  18. so _thats_ what http://www.enron.com was! by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Redundant

    ba-dum ching!

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  19. Here's Another One!! by dloolb · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just check Google for matching phrases! http://www.wemarket4u.net/prosperity/

    --
    The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana
    1. Re:Here's Another One!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Better yet, check the root of the site, you get a list of "FTC Teaser Pages".

  20. I want in! by (void*) · · Score: 4, Funny

    Imagine getting paid by the SEC to make up stuff about a non-existent company. Where do I sign up?

    1. Re:I want in! by Ogerman · · Score: 2

      Imagine getting paid by the SEC to make up stuff about a non-existent company. Where do I sign up?

      Probably your local unemployment office. But keep in mind the job description requires at least 2 years prior experience working for a former dotCom. (-:

  21. Who pays for these websites? by mrroot · · Score: 2

    OK, who pays for the development and hosting of these web sites? I assume it is my tax dollars being used to tell some gullable shmuck how gullable they really are. My guess is they don't learn anything from this, or worse yet, they think they've learned something but really haven't.

    --
    I Heart Sorting Networks
    1. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      Lol. I love people who define taxes as:

      Money I pay to my government that I'd better be paid back in full for.

      Dummy. Taxes are to distribute the wealth of your economy to those less fortunate. Yes, people with less brains than you constitutes those less fortunate.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:Who pays for these websites? by mrroot · · Score: 2, Flamebait

      Ignoramus,
      If you are implying that I define taxes as "Money I pay to my government that I'd better be paid back in full for" you are wrong.

      Here is how I see it:

      "Money that I pay to the government that should be used in a responsible and helpful way... not wasted."

      I can think of many better ways to help the less fortunate than building websites to try to trick people. Besides, the neediest people in our contry don't even have internet access, and don't have enough money to consider investing in some bogus company.

      --
      I Heart Sorting Networks
    3. Re:Who pays for these websites? by CMiYC · · Score: 2

      Oh come on now. I very much doubt that millions of your tax money has been wasted on these sites. I'm sure its much cheaper for your tax money to be spent on helping letimate company suffer when a couple thousand braindeads file chapter 11. As someone else posted, lets assume worse case they are spending $50k on this site alone. BFD. $50,000 is nothing spread over the millions of people in our country. Quite honestly, I feel that these sites are successful if just ONE person walks away from each site and says "Damn, How could I be so stupid?" Fortuantly the people that they will get through to are people who just haven't made the connection to reality yet. Granted I'm sure there are probably 100x more people who get to the last page and are still saying "BUT WHERE DO I INVEST????"

    4. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      Good point, although I'd charge that you don't neccessarily know better ways to help your country than your government. I'm just saying that it's a pretty unfounded complaint given the scope of the purpose of taxes, and the complexities inherent in distributing them in such a way that the government won't be the recipiant of glib remarks like the parent post.

      I realize, of course, that this is an extremely unpopular point of view these days ... :)

      I'd be intersted to see ya throw up some numbers or supporting arguments in terms of how much money the SEC gets from public taxes, and how they go about spending that money.

      BTW, stopping investment fraud is pretty paramount to an efficient capitalist system, so if you're down with fast-n-furious capitalism (a system who's sole purpose is to promote and motivate the efficient use of resources), the goal of this project is in everyone's interest, not just the dumb (or gullible, or whatever) people.

      Then again, if you're down for regulated markets, I agree that the money could be better spent on developing laws that would cut down on the ease of committing investment fraud in the first place.

      We're not likely to see it, as such regulations slow trade and business (gasp!), but it would certainly result in less buyers having to beware, IMHO.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    5. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SnakeStu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dummy. Taxes are to distribute the wealth of your economy to those less fortunate.

      OK, probably a troll, but just in case you're really that misguided... Let's just presume that your idealistic notion is accurate (although it's demonstrably false; see below, where this rather-long response ties back to the SEC site topic). What are the real implications? The surface implication for those who can't think more deeply is that taxes are a fairy tale come true -- steal from the rich and give to the poor, very Robin Hood. But how noble is that really? There are some deeper implications that many taxpayers might find immoral, such as:

      • Promotion of Force/Violence. Robin Hood is holding an arrow to your head with the force of a bent bow behind it. The more modern picture is the government enforcing taxes at gunpoint (try not paying your taxes and resisting arrest when they come for you -- the guns will eventually be made visible, whether during the arrest or carried by guards after you've been dragged off to a detention facility).
      • Promotion of Sloth. By rewarding most those who contribute least and punishing those who contribute the most, there is no more logical action than to cease to contribute. Yes, that means that the only logical route is to immediately stop contributing -- don't work another moment. The only reason people continue to work is emotional -- they have ethical problems with sloth, they don't want to be seen as freeloaders, etc. But the very system they support with their work promotes the vice (sloth) which they are loathe to accept for themselves.

      Actually I could go on but I'm on my lunch break and must wrap this up before it is time to go back "on the clock" to support those on welfare. (Actually, I'm being partially sarcastic; read on for the debunking of that notion, along with the debunking of your original idea about what taxes mean.)

      So if, as you incorrectly state, taxes are to take from the rich and give to the poor (where 'poor' -- according to you -- includes poor in mind as well as bank), this "noble" idea is only noble on the surface, and evil lurks not far beneath.

      Luckily, taxpayers can rest assured that taxes don't mean what you say they mean...

      ...but they should be made uneasy again by seeing, below, what they should mean versus what they do mean at present (speaking from the US perspective, to stay on topic of the SEC). By the way, what you implied matches neither what taxes are nor what they should be.

      I stated above that your concept of taxes is demonstrably false. How could that be demonstrated? Follow the bouncing penny! Follow the funds to see where they really go. The bulk of tax funds go to government programs that are ostensibly for the common good. Not the good of just those unwilling or unable to contribute to society and the economy, but everyone. (Maybe it's different where you are, but around here we don't have roads and highways set aside for 'poor' people only.)

      Had I not said "ostensibly," there would be no difference between what taxes are and what they should be. The difference is in the beneficiary. Ask yourself, who creates taxes (generally speaking; I realize there is some complexity, but it can be bypassed safely at the moment)? From an entirely selfish perspective, would it not make sense for taxes to benefit those who create them? Of course, our taxes don't go directly to our elected "representatives" (other than in the form of regularly-increased and already-very-large salaries), but taxes we pay do go, indirectly, to support the political careers of incumbents.

      This really should be obvious by now, but you might miss it, since you claim to believe in something that is obviously not the case. So let me illustrate: Pat Senator wants to be re-elected. Pat Senator knows that a certain government program for the "common" good is particularly good for constituents in the district responsible for that re-election. Pat Senator also knows that the program needs funding, and that the burden of funding for it can be spread over a much wider population than the Senator's constituents. Time for a new tax!

      Tax funds are only marginally used to "take from the rich and give to the poor." Vastly, they are used to support political careers, by supporting businesses that make campaign contributions and by supporting constituents who vote. So what should be for the common good, really is for the good of politicians.

      This isn't news, by the way. I'm not telling anybody anything they don't already know -- just what they might prefer to ignore.

      The question originally was, who pays for the SEC web sites? The implication, I believe, is why should taxpayers pay for these sites? It's a valid question -- for reasons already noted beyond the scope of my message, the SEC sites will do little or nothing to "help the poor." Are they part of a program to help the common good (really)? Are they part of a program that will help a politician's career? Or are they the result of a side-effect of a corrupt political system, that being insufficient "change control." In other words, perhaps they're just the result of somebody saying, "Hey, I've got an idea" and there being insufficient structure to prevent the idea from taking form without proof of validity.

      Regardless, it sounds like a government-spec government program: An ineffective use (a.k.a., waste) of resources.

      There goes my lunch hour...

    6. Re:Who pays for these websites? by The+Man · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Besides, the neediest people in our contry don't even have internet access, and don't have enough money to consider investing in some bogus company.

      Nor will they ever, if every potential employer loses his or her money to investment fraud.

    7. Re:Who pays for these websites? by nomadic · · Score: 2

      The question originally was, who pays for the SEC web sites?

      The SEC.

      So the question becomes, who pays for the SEC. The answer is, simply, only those who benefit from the SEC's operation. The SEC is funded by the fees investors pay on stock transactions, and this more than pays for the SEC budget. They decreased the fee last year because they were taking in several times what they spent, and the Republicans in Congress had a problem with that (personally, if the fees weren't onerous I think they should have kept it going at those rates)

    8. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nice post. Well thought out and presented. For the sake of this argument, a wealthy person is anyone who can afford a house and car. What we might call the lower-middle class.

      Three comments:

      1. I didn't say this was the /only/ purpose of taxes. :P Yes, I didn't qualify my statement, but you yourself admit that this is at least one of the purposes of taxes. Also note that I never said that this wealth was distributed in cash form (although it is, through some programs, obviously). This redistribution goes towards many things: education, support, training, whatever. That's still a redistribution of wealth in my opinion.

      2. Your argument regarding the fact that people who get this money (the poor) are being rewarded for being sloth is based on the assumption that motivation comes from wealth. Ie, that money /is/ a reward, and that the freeloaders (the poor, the stupid) are perfectly happy to live off the backs of others. While we don't have time to debate such an axiom, it is not the axiom under under which I base my viewpoints. I believe people's primary motivation in life is to attain a social status by way of participating and contributing to the society they live in. Note that I'm not talking about material status, although in the world we live in, this is one of the only ways to attain and advertise one's position within the social heirarchy. Many an economist and phycologist have promoted the goal to contibute to one's society as the primary motivator of humans. I tend to agree .. while we equate money as reward in this society, the poor people I know are not as interested in money as they are to have the ability to have the resources required to begin contributing to their society. While the church of today is money, I'm of the opinion that it is only the sufficiently conditioned who has come to believe that people are only after enough weath to exist and/or to spend on consumption rather than self-betterment. Note, exceptions are abound, but I suppose I'm just saying that I believe the numbers fall more in the favour of those who wish to contribute rather than those who are truely content with receiving state-distributed welfare of various sorts. It is, in my opinion, only the widening gap in incomes and standards of living that are contributing to the increasing number of people who are so unhappy regarding their relative lack of wealth that they cannot focus on their desire to contribute to society in the first place. Ironically, most of the wealthy people I know (I work in that world) value money as reward FAR more than the poor people I know (I socialize in a very bohemian social circle). It's frusterating to see wealthy people suggest that poor people are driven by the same things they are, and then /withhold/ that very value to the point where these poor people can't afford the things that they both value .. food, water, rent, and cultural opportunities such as socializing. Consider the disproportionate amount of people in this society that wish to contribute in a vain that is unsupported by big business (arts, culture, non-quantitative branches of medicine, etc, etc .. whatever the wealthy elite don't value.) Essentially I am saying that withholding the redistribution of wealth, at least within a society that does not go to the ends of the earth to promote material gain as the primary human motivator, results in more people unwilling to contribute rather than people freeloading off the system.

      3. > would it not make sense for taxes to benefit those who create them

      Programs for the common good includes the poor. It's an obvious enough point that, certainly, those who create taxes should see a reasonable (by reasonable, this is set by the social barometer of the society the taxes are collected in) return in the form of programs and services that help them. I suppose that the relative contention to my point simply illustrates where that barometer is.

      All of this is notwithstanding the most sacreligious viewpoint I hold: that much of the opposition to taxes is not due to those who 'freeload' on it, but rather the disproportionate and unhealthy value that those with wealth place on it. If only they could 'let go' a little and made poor people happier (and thus far more likely to re-enter society as a contributing member), they might come to realize that freeloading is, for all intents and purposes, a creation of the very populous who is so disagreeable with the idea of redistributing their priviledged earnings. And of course .. some can, and do! But not enough, yet ...

      4. Back to the real issue at hand. Free-market capitalism is touted as the system that leads to the most efficient use of available resources (be they material, or effort). It would appear that squashing investment fraud is one such way to ensure that those resources are fed back into the fast-and-furious system, much to the delight of the big business types, rather than to the shady ones who don't feed back into the system. Therefore, I charge that, if you are into the free-market capitalist school of thought, you'd believe that this does benifit everyone in so far as it ensures that all generated value goes back to the proper religion (if you will).

      Obstinately is a good word, but please don't forget that nothing is a top-down system. The more people that perceive that taxes go to the fat cats, the more likely fat-cats will feel that their self-interest isn't as likely to hurt them in terms of their public relations. There are many ways to buck that trend (and it is getting worse), but being reluctant to contribute to the taxation system is a protest that ends up more on the backs of the already unfortunate (and, as you point out, all of us) than the well-off polician who, really, at the end of the day, could live with less financial perks to his job. Also, it's somewhat of a skewered viewpoint, as it relates back to my first point, and that part of this viewpoint is promoted by big business to swing your trust from the public sector to the private one. And if you don't believe all that ... well, do a little reading from schools of thought that are vohemently opposed to by our current social and economic system.

      But really, good argument. I see your views, but I choose to believe that part of your axioms are resonsible for these 'freeloaders' we (well, you and others, not I) are so loathe to support through taxes.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    9. Re:Who pays for these websites? by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 3, Funny

      :) actually it would seem that the SEC is the gullible one in this. I bet some young MLM super marketdroid made a mint on selling this idea to the SEC and telling them that they need to pay himto help them setup this system...

      scam of the century for whomever came up with this idea and got paid for it!
      .

    10. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      > Ya know, this is a pet peeve of mine. We keep hearing about this increasing gap between the rich and poor. But we never see any real numbers to back it up. What is the rate of increase of that gap? Where are the statistics that show the gap, and trace its fluctuation over time? There was a pretty significant gap between the rich and poor in, say, Victorian England. You're telling me that the gap has worsened since then? Prove it. Because I have to tell you, my feeling (based purely on anecdotal evidence, because I haven't done the research either) is that the gap is actually decreasing as the developed world flattens into "the great middle class", and the third world gradually becomes developed.

      Here's one stat (Banko Milanovic, economist at WTO): In 1988, the richest 5 percent of the people in the world had incomes that were 78 teims as big as those of the pporest 5 percent. By 1993, the top 5 percent had incomes 114 times as big as those of the bottom 5 percent. If you make 35,000$ Canadian a year (I make double, and I'm 23 years old), you are richer than 98 percent of the world's population.

      Think of post communist Russia. From 2 million poor to 60 million post-communism. (Not that I'm in any way advertising communism .. just, they got a free-market, supposedly)

      Nations like sub-Saharan Africa grew their GDP 36%from about 1950 to 1980 (representing the post-war regulated market economy), but have fallen by 15 percent in the last 20 years (as the free-market has been pressured onto the world economy stage). Other nations are similar.

      From a WTO report: "Indeed, growth in the developing world has been disappointing, with the typical country registering negligible growth."

      Mexican wages have fallen about 20 percent in 1994.

      All of this notwithstanding the question: is all of this really making the people in these other countries very happy? :)

      The numbers are there. It is an actual falsehood to believe otherwise, even according to the pro-free-market capitalist WTO. The gap has an continues to grow. It's simply not in the best interest of the most powerful interests to look at them, or present them in that little ad they call the news. How do you think the bearer of news like this could explain it to their shareholders or investors? ;)

      Anyhow, thats just sad about saying doing work. Other people want to do work. It is you who do not see that there are mechanisms in place to keep the poor down, as manifested in how the wealthy perceive them. I understand that it is difficult to feel good about being in this system, but it is important to know what it does.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    11. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      Jebus buddy. You're giving the typical elite answer: "Sure, the numbers are bad, but in the long run, just trust us, it'll pay off." How do you think you'd take that if you were in, say, Argentina, or Uguanda, and you'd seen the cost of water rise, wages plummet, and your countries GDP (a terrible measure, but it seems to speak to capitalists) drop 15% in the last 20 years. Or if the IMF lent your country money on the condition that you privatize your water system and contract its management out (while tripling the cost) to 2 or 3 mutlinational American companies? It's not paying off. The gap actually started in the UK in the 15th century, when the feudal system started taking away common land from the people. Capitalism involved removing the rights to resources from people. Now, like I said, I'm not bashing capitalism, I'm bashing the free-market. You say the gap has been widening .. well, it's been widening faster and far more readically since the drive for free-market capitalism has been pushed onto the world state. Look, even the WTO, the champion of this movement, admits it (although not readily or easily.)

      > There are plenty of people

      Man, you can say whatever you like to make you feel good about working hard. Really now, you're not saying anything that most other people who work hard and suspect the poor are nothing but lazy people. Plenty, in this case, is pittance to the number of people who don't escape poverty.

      Anyhow man, I'm just saying, the gap is growing ever fast. If you want to take the "wait and see" approach, well, fine, but thats the same stance thats been thrown around since the 15th century. Nobody buys it except those who have already benifited from it, which is a smaller and smaller amount of people earning a disproportionately larger and larger amount. I'm in that basket, you're in that basket .. and so while it's tough to see or admit, it is my view that those who cannot see it or refuse to are simply too dependant on your kind of mind set to justify working the longest hours in the world with one of the highest levels of emotional and psycological distress. Evolution will manifest protest in the form of violence. It's funny, cause the elite are always caught standing with their pants down, going "Hey, whats wrong? Nothing wrong! What are you doing?! Nothing's wrong! Okay, you're poor, but c'mon, just wait, you won't be .. well, or maybe your grandkids won't be. Well, if they arn't lazy asses." while posts like mine are routinely ignored by those with wealth for no other reason than it would infer that sacrifice and voluntary distribution of wealth and power is the only way to make this world work. A frightening proposition for any sufficiently well-conditioned capitalist.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    12. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      > If the wealthy person wasn't around, the poor person would have to earn the right to stay alive somehow.

      A bunch of those poor people could do you job better than you ever hope to do it. Thats what scares you so much. If you don't believe it, it scares you into not believing it.

      What you say is only one level below what much writing and prose by the wealthy elite in the 17th and 18th free-market UK economy said: "It would be difficult to be rich if the poor were not around to do all the jobs the rich don't want to do!"

      By the way, India has the fastest growing GDP in the world, and Japan did a very good job of ressurecting their economy before the free-markets hit .. and how did they do it? High taxation, heavy government intervention in trade and development. Just a parting thought.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    13. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      > Actually, what I'm saying is that the trend you are talking about

      And I'm saying that that trend hasn't /always/ existed, nor needs to accelerate at the rate that it is currently accelerating. At least under a more cautious state-managed post-war capitalist era, the trend was nearly stopped, and many countries did experience favourable growth of their GDP.

      I mean, seriously, I might as well go around stealing from people and say, "Well, you know, stealing will always happen, so might as well do it." Shit, thats the defining principal of unabated capitalism. That being a bad apple isn't bad, because there are always bad apples. The point is, there doesn't have to be that many.

      > Argentina fell apart because it was a corrupt government with massive cronyism in state-run jobs.

      Maybe it was the influence of the NED (National Endowment of Democracy Fund .. a 'non government' organization that was born out of a CIA scandal that you might know .. the Iran Contra scandal?), known for purposefully destabilizing the ecnomies and political systems of countries with decidedly socialist (but democratic) leaders. Another example of an angle supported by just about everyone in the world but the US, for obvious reasons. :) Hard to believe in when you love it so much, I know, but try.

      > Capitalism. Feudalism. The two are not the same.

      Like duh. Feudalism introduced capitalism, in the form of the privatization of what was, at the time, common land regulated and mandated by the farmers and communities at the time. Abusers of the land before the push by feudalists to privatization were punished by way of public humiliation. Privatization involved the erection of hedges around these lands .. thus, the introduction of what was to become the market based economy began with taking away what was at the time the right of the people living beside such common lands.

      > If you and your buddies want to "manifest violence" on me

      Why would I want to? I don't want to. I don't wish you any harm man. But I'm not the one who might die if I can't afford my next meal, or wants to die, because I work 12 hours a day and can only afford a tiny dingy apartment, food and water. These numbers may or may not be increasing, although I ague that they are, but that doesn't change the fact that if they are increasing, attitudes like yours will ensure you're first up against the wall. Dude, I mean, my parents are part of this group. Me too, probably. I'm not bashing you, I'm only showing you that people are moved to violence when they perceive they have no other choice .. not because they are dumb and don't recognize that if they only got off their lazy asses, they wouldn't have to lop people's heads off. Do you really think poor people just can't figure out that being a lawyer or computer programmer is more fun than joining riots? Nope .. but as long as you keep belittling the poor, and their 'meager' skills and motivation, and then critizing them for not having the drive for self-betterment, they'll always feel forced to believe that violence is the only way. If you can't be convinced to give them a chance, of course they'll take it. I would to, if the numbers were in my favour ....

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    14. Re:Who pays for these websites? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      > Don't like the IMF's conditions, don't borrow from them

      BTW, so, american companies come into your country (your government lets them in, cause they say they'll be nice). Then they pollute the drinking water. Then they privatize your drinking water. Then you can't afford water. Then the IMF, in bed with these companies, gives you a deal that you can't refuse, not because you don't like the terms, but because millions upon millions of people would die if you don't borrow. BTW, typical third-world IMF interest payments are 30 times the rate that the allies felt was sufficient punishment to Germany, post WWII. I mean, can I come into your house as a guest, take all your food, and then sell it back to you at a rate you can't afford? And then offer to "loan" you money with interest rates that garauntee that unless you can pull off a 4 fold increase in your GDP, you'll never pay off?

      You're very ignorant of the ways of the international scene. I'm no genius, but you lack even a smidgen of a world-view that isn't tainted by your own fishbowl. Go back to your bubble!

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
  22. Re:Exactly how important or difficult is it to fak by JordoCrouse · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, if happiness is bliss, and bliss is ignorance, and ignorance is a form of stupidity, then it follows that the Declaration of Independence guarantees your right to be an idiot.

    Who are you to stand in the way of freedom?

    --
    Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
  23. Re:What ever happened to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For a change, this seems like an attempt to
    passively *educate* the public, rather that
    legislate our free will out of existence. I
    would *FAR* rather have the US government
    waste our tax dollars on this than on passing
    horrendously complex laws that impose massive
    fines and prison terms for anyone making
    finanial claims not officially endorsed by
    the SEC... Consider that, as someone already
    pointed out, the SEC considered ENRON a "real" company...

  24. White hat v. Black hat by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This is an example where the government entrapment is a good thing. What about the dark side of the force?


    Let the FBI put up sites for child porn, and the requirement for entry into the child porn is submitting your own child porn. Is this entrapment? What about the MPAA doing this with movie downloads?

    1. Re:White hat v. Black hat by An+Ominous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Tricking someone into acting illegally isn't necessarily entrapment. Otherwise there would be no sting operations. Entrapment requires harassment or continual provocation -- that is, forcing someone into doing something they normally would not.

    2. Re:White hat v. Black hat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is completely different for one important reason: in all of those cases, the government or the "trapper" is trying to force the citizen to commit a crime, then arrest him or her. In this case, the SEC is helping save people from fraud by raising awareness. A citizen who signs up to trade at SEC sites is not doing anything illegal, he or she is simply setting himself or herself up to be defrauded.

    3. Re:White hat v. Black hat by legLess · · Score: 5, Informative

      First, this isn't entrapment - they're not going to prosecute people for trying to give money to these fake sites.

      Second, the theoretical FBI tactic you describe sounds very much like entrapment (IANAL), which is very illegal.

      Frankly, I'm amazed and gratified to see a government agency making such good use of the web.

      --
      This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
    4. Re:White hat v. Black hat by Xerithane · · Score: 2, Informative

      Close, it has nothing to do with what they normally would or would not do. Entrapment just means that someone from the law enforcement side coerced an individual into committing a crime that they would not have done without that coercion.

      For example, if you have a drug dealer who ceased dealing and an officer ask for one more deal and the dealer gets busted, it would fall under entrapment. Entrapment also does not require harassment or continual provocation.

      Entrapment is the act of luring an individual into a previously or otherwise uncontemplated illegal act.

      IANAL, but try to keep up on laws :)

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
    5. Re:White hat v. Black hat by geekoid · · Score: 2

      entrapment occurs when you "entice" someone to do something they normally wouldn't do. So if they allready have the childporn then they Allready committed the crime.
      No if you where walking down the street minding you own business, and someone walks up to you and says "I have sex with you for 50.00" THAT would be entrapment. which is different then walking up to someona and saying "I'll give you 50.00 for sex"
      this is why you only discuss money on the phone, then just casually leave it on her dresser when you enter the premises, but never ever talk about it in person,and if they try to get you to say something about moany, in person, then clam up, take your money, and get the hell out.

      IANAL, but I've paid for one.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:White hat v. Black hat by BlowCat · · Score: 3, Insightful
      In fact, the site is rather dumb. It "traps" me too early. Just because I clicked on some links, it don't mean that I "could get scammed". Why cannot I click all links before I use other sources to check if the company is real?

      Only if I entered some personal information on the site and tried to submit it, then I'm likely to be a potential victim. But not before that.

    7. Re:White hat v. Black hat by Kanasta · · Score: 2

      making such good use of the web?

      You realise they probably hired a $200/hr contractor to put up that site, and chose an 'authorized' web host/registrar that cost 5 times more than average.

      And they probably have 10 volumes of documentation on this filed somewhere.

    8. Re:White hat v. Black hat by ymgve · · Score: 2

      This was exactly what the FBI did in Operation Buccaneer. They set up their own warez sites, got their own people deeply into the scene, then struck.

      By the way, it's not entrapment (AFAIK) because the FBI didn't trick them into anything - they'd still copy software without the 'encouragement' of the FBI.

  25. Australian version... by Thornae · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Australian Securities and Investments Commission do a similar thing in print publications. They run
    bogus investment ads, including Geep - the amazing Sheep/Goat hybrid and Jellyfish Farms. The numbers actually put you in contact with ASIC, who'll tell you to be more careful with your money.

    I admit, these are a little easier to spot than the SEC ones...

    --
    |>
    Here be Dragons
  26. Re:What ever happened to... by kawaichan · · Score: 2

    One of the biggest problem with investing theses days is the fact that everyone are doing it. That's right, everyone, like your everyday AOLer and MSNer.

    And if you haven't figure out already, there are tons of AOLers out there, those who lack IQ and are willing to believe whatever someone says even though it sounds too good to be true.

    Then you ask, dude, these scams are so old, you would be suprised people will fall on anything.

    Believe it or not, the economy depends on these AOLers, and it is the government's interest to protect and educate those who lack intelligance.

    --

    kawai
  27. Nice by NiftyNews · · Score: 2

    So basically we can all wait for the report, find out which site worked the best, and copy it for our very convincing fraud companies.

    Nothing like having your tax dollars do a little free R&D for the bad guys! ;)

  28. Here's a great one by jackal! · · Score: 2
    --

    Who moderates the meta-moderators?

  29. Legal Representation by Mondrames · · Score: 2

    These sites are represented by the law firm of Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe.

  30. /.ing the site by John+Harrison · · Score: 2
    By /.ing this site we hurt not only ourselves, but many foolish investors that would otherwise be able to see it and learn!

    I wonder if the SEC anticipated getting /.ed when they estimated how much of a load this site would need to bear. What are their bandwidth costs? Is this /.ing hurting taxpayers?

    1. Re:/.ing the site by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2
      • By /.ing this site we hurt not only ourselves, but many foolish investors that would otherwise be able to see it and learn!
      Unless /.'ers are the intended audience...

      How many of you got in on the VA/RedHat/LInuxONE [kidding] friends & family purchase plan? That's what I mean...

      --
      -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  31. Re:Exactly how important or difficult is it to fak by SilentChris · · Score: 2
    If you were in a company that fell apart because of a scam, I'm sure you would care.

    Considering the huge amount of money that has been invested in techs the past 10 years, and a reliance on such techs by investors, nerds really should care about this stuff.

  32. whois on SEC by agrounds · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here are the results of the domains owned by the SEC according to the whois database at network solutions:

    WINDHANDEL.COM
    SEC-CIVIL.COM
    SECRECRUITMENT.COM
    SEC-NL.COM
    OPERATIONDESERTFOX.COM
    DOUZALS.COM
    SEC (SE463-ORG) no.valid.email@WORLDNIC.NET 619 487 7988
    MCWHORTLE.COM

    1. Re:whois on SEC by j7953 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      DOUZALS.COM

      Stop, don't slashdot that poor server. Since July 14, 1998, they've only handled 52 hits, and counting (counting quite fast, actually).

      And they're not the Securities and Exchange Commission but "La Société Informatique SEC [Service Enseignement Conception]"

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
  33. Here's one... by bahtama · · Score: 2

    Seems they haven't even configured some of them yet. ;) http://seek2succeed.com/

    --

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    Oh bother.

    1. Re:Here's one... by bahtama · · Score: 2
      Since it seems to have gone away already...

      Registrant:
      SEC (SEEK2SUCCEED-DOM)
      6432 GENERAL GREEN WAY
      ALEXANDRIA, VA 22312
      US


      Domain Name: SEEK2SUCCEED.COM

      Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
      SEC (VMGSFHPWCO) webmaster@mcwhortle.com
      SEC
      6432 GENERAL GREEN WAY
      ALEXANDRIA, VA 22312
      US
      202 824 5151 fax: 202 504 2477

      --

      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
      Oh bother.

  34. 6 Degrees of Fraud? by penguin_dance · · Score: 2, Funny
    Perhaps this is one being referenced here:

    "http://www.lovecalculator.com This site is a fraud! Don't use it! You'll only become disenchanted! The only person that everyone---I mean EVERYONE---has a 100% chance with is Kevin Bacon. Yeah, I know...RUN!"

    SEC must be stooping pretty low!

    --
    If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
  35. why it's important for a computer geek by ackthpt · · Score: 2
    Maybe if they'd do this with spam, they could put a dent in it by rounding up all the morons who fall for it and send them directions to free classes on how not to be a sap.

    I'm sure, with all the money spent chasing down the scammers, an education program like this would slash the costs, and hopefully make spamming less attractive o-> with the desirable result, less spam! =-)

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:why it's important for a computer geek by _typo · · Score: 2, Offtopic
      Maybe if they'd do this with spam, they could put a dent in it by rounding up all the morons who fall for it

      We need to round up all the sysadmins who setup mail servers as open relays. The morons that believe the stuff that comes in spam are less important.

      --

      Pedro Côrte-Real.

    2. Re:why it's important for a computer geek by aka-ed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Maybe if they'd do this with spam...

      Hold on. Are you actually proposing that the government should festoon everyone's mb with fake "Get Rich Quick" offers in order to "educate" us about fake "Get Rich Quick" offers?

      The web site idea already strikes me as more "Internet litter" than anything useful. Habitual saps will be habitual saps, and many of them already know that. This is a class of people that will, upon learning that the SEC site is a fake, feel crestfallen at the loss of an opportunity, and then immediately resume their search for someone who can take their money. It's more a matter of self-esteem than ignorance, IMO.

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    3. Re:why it's important for a computer geek by ackthpt · · Score: 2
      Do you really want Your Tax Dollars sending you spam?

      My tax dollars have been spent worse ways.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  36. Sounds cool... by macdaddy · · Score: 2

    ...as long as they don't resort to spamming to advertise their fake sites. I'd have to LART them if they did.

  37. Re:unless by CMiYC · · Score: 2

    You can't. Take a look at the example. There information about investing all the up to the point where you send them money. That's where you get slapped in the face.

  38. SEC should start "Get a Clue Quick" Pyramid Scheme by SimHacker · · Score: 2
    The SEC should enlist all those bozos who reply to Get Rich Quick spams, by starting their own pyramid scheme just to teach people not to respond to Get Rich Quick spams.

    -Don

    --
    Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  39. Lottery by An+Ominous+Coward · · Score: 2

    Are movies a tax on people who aren't good at math? What about books? The lottery is escapist entertainment. And at a dollar a ticket, it's a better value than a movie. And with the dreck churned out of Hollywood, you have a better chance of winning $100 million than seeing a good flick.

    1. Re:Lottery by geekoid · · Score: 2

      how do you figure? If I by a movie ticket, I gete something Viewing the movie. If I buy a lottery ticket, I will have a 1:100000 chance of getting ANYTHING at all in return.Thats anything, not just the big payout.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  40. Now if only other agencies would follow suit... by bani · · Score: 2

    I wish the FDA would do the same with "alternative medicine" sites.

    The FDA should seed the web with "herbal viagra", "super blue green algae", etc sites, then slap mofo's upside the head when they are stupid enough to actually try ordering.

    1. Re:Now if only other agencies would follow suit... by Sloppy · · Score: 2

      Hey, quit dissin' alt medicine. I lost 40 pounds on THIS plan.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    2. Re:Now if only other agencies would follow suit... by bani · · Score: 2

      "NordiCaLite is a trademark of Ümlaut Industries, Ltd."

      Who says the feds dont have a sense of humour?

  41. I quit submitting stories long ago by FreeUser · · Score: 3, Offtopic

    I submitted this on Monday (I mentioned it on my website) I was logged in, not anonymous. So much for logged in users taking precedence over anonymous users :-)

    I quit submitting stories to slashdot years ago, when similar things would happen. The submission process is straightforward enough, but the editorial process is about as transparent as crude oil on a moonless night. Who knows why stories get rejected one day, resubmitted and accepted another, with the latecommer getting the credit. Who knows why a site which purports to be pro free software/open source/whatever dumps stories of technical interest in favor of promotions ... excuse me ... reviews of media releases (DVDs) and movies that encourage free software enthusiasts to go out and put money in the pockets of an industry bent on hamstringing the internet and legislating free software (and the tools to make it) out of existence.

    I gave up trying to figure this out years ago, and now content myself to just reading whatever interesting stuff happens to make it through the filter, and posting an occasional diatribe or two.

    I recommend anyone discontent with this sort of thing to do the same. It will entail much less frustration and heartache for you, and if enough people do it perhaps the editors will take the hint and become more fair in how they select stories and attribute them. In the meantime, life is too short, so don't let this sort of irritation get to you.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:I quit submitting stories long ago by d-e-w · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I gave up trying to figure this out years ago, and now content myself to just reading whatever
      interesting stuff happens to make it through the filter, and posting an occasional diatribe or two.


      The reasoning (or lack there of) behind what stories get accepted or rejected from Slashdot is not actually all that hard to understand. Like anything in PR, it's a crapshoot.

      Here are my views (I always submit as AC, due to some particular personal reasons, but have a fairly decent acceptance rate.)

      Submitting a story to Slashdot involves creating a mini press release. You are promoting your "version" of the story, so that it gets chosen over all other "versions." Creating an effective press release is frickin' hard. I've seen cases in which a 2-page, double-spaced press release took two-three weeks to produce.

      As with any press release, you increase your chances by focusing on certain aspects.

      1. Engaging language. You are selling your summary to the editor who reviews it. They probably go through dozens of submissions a day, and yours has to catch their eye and engage their attention.

      2. Interesting topic, which could give rise to a ongoing discussion. When looking back on most of my failed submissions, they did not meet #2. If it is interesting, but probably won't create much of a discussion, it is worthless for Slashdot's purposes. This is not a news site, it is a discussion site. Even if you believe it would generate a discussion, posing a jumping off point for that discussion increases your chances.

      But still, things will be rejected, as thousands of press releases around the world are thrown into thousands of trash cans every day. Other versions of the same thing may be accepted because the language/discussion points appeal more to the editor who reviews it. This can be a problem at times, because an incorrect and more controversial version which provides a jumping off point for argument will probably be accepted over a summary which is technically correct and dry. But this is not a problem with this site alone--it is a problem throughout the news world. Where do you think that the news sites get some of their incorrect yet controversial information about technical issues? Badly written press releases whose information may be incorrect, but has the "gotcha" factor.

      And there's always the editor factor. Maybe editor A couldn't give a damn about the subject and rejected submission A because it didn't interest him. Then submission B comes around a day later and is reviewed by editor B, who loves the information provided. Therefore, B is accepted over A. This too, is not a problem limited to this news site. Once more than one person is involved consistancy goes straight out the window, no matter how hard you strive for it.

      Submitting to Slashdot is a crapshoot. There are ways that you can improve your odds, but if your summary is reviewed by an editor who believes it is uninteresting, or believes it will not stimulate discussion, it gets rejected.

    2. Re:I quit submitting stories long ago by geekoid · · Score: 2

      I here you, for me it was a much harder process to get away from because my first couple of submissions where taken. Kind og like walking into a casino for the first time and winning a bunch of money. "I can't loose"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:I quit submitting stories long ago by mliu · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      Yes, what you say is all true, and the day when I realized this was also the day that I stopped submitting stories. This whole 'gotta-catch-the-attention-of-the-editor' thing is really pathetic considering that we're doing them a favor by submitting, not the other way around. I used to submit stories because I wanted to help make Slashdot a better place. It's clear that they've got more than enough help already considering the way they will ignore good submissions simply because they don't like the write up with them (It's not like they could add their own write-up anyways or anything).

      So I guess the thing really is, I could give a damn whether or not they post my stupid submission or not. But when I have found something that I know will be of genuine interest to the rest of the geek audience out there on Slashdot, and I thoughtfully take the time out of my day to send the URL the way of the Slashdot editors, the last thing I need is to be treated like they're doing me a favor should they choose to take the time to read my submission and post it.....

  42. One problem: More government lies. by Futurepower(tm) · · Score: 2


    I have a problem with this. The U.S. government is, once again, lying. People need to be able to trust their government, but the government engages in every kind of behavior that it calls criminal.

    For a small collection of U.S. government lies and misleading behavior, see this collection of links I put together: What should be the Response to Violence?

    --
    Bush's education improvements were
    1. Re:One problem: More government lies. by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I have a problem with this. The U.S. government is, once again, lying. People need to be able to trust their government, but the government engages in every kind of behavior that it calls criminal.

      So, the government can't pretend to be a non-existent company for the purpose of educating people?

      Do you also oppose sting operations? Reverse stings? Should I not be allowed to bluff confessions out of rape suspects? ("We found a beer bottle at the scene with a very interesting fingerprint...")

      So object lessons aren't to be allowed anymore?

      And lying isn't necessarily criminal. Not all statements fall under perjury/false swearing statutes, truth-in-advertising laws, or mandated-disclosure. It's not like the SEC is accepting money at this site, gundecking an Environmental Impact Statement, issuing a buy advisory for Enron, or claiming to be Marie of Rumania under oath.

  43. Gull Awards by stylewagon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The ASIC - Australia's equivalent to the SEC - has been runnning bogus internet scams of their own for a while now. They even have awards for the best (or worst depending on your viewpoint) scams found - The Gull Awards (past winners)

    Thats Gull as in Gullible.

    --

    *** I am the real stylewagon

  44. They missed one... by bnenning · · Score: 2
    if people manage to overlook or ignore those issues and attempt to invest money, informs them that they have made an unwise decision.


    While this is a fine idea, they really need to put similar warnings on the Social Security web site.

    --
    How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
  45. Not too cool by Pinball+Wizard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From their investment page.


    To bid on these shares, you must quickly e-mail us the number of shares you wish to purchase, together with your major credit card number and social security number (for identification) so we can reserve your slot.


    Thanks, SEC! Now I now where to listen for plain text emails containing social security card and credit numbers. So perhaps you are teaching people a lesson, but who's gonna pay when they become real victims of identity and credit card theft?


    The way they are handling this is just as irresponsible as the people who would actually email sensitive information.

    --

    No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

  46. Re:Is it live or is it SEC? by d-e-w · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given that it's been reported on sites like CNN as well, pulling in rubberneckers who are techy and not, SEC is probably not counting on much beyond the curiosity factor with this particular site. Searchs by slashdotters may through off stats on other sites today, but that's probably an expected outlier as well--we are not the only ones to like challenges, and announcing that you've got sites like this out there is tantamount to declaring a challenge.

    Immediate "news-worthy" benefits had already been generated by this site prior to its mentions on news sites. Hopefully ongoing benefits (people who are little more clued in about internet scams) will be generated by other of their fake sites. SEC did throw this one away--at least for now--by using it as the basis for a press release.

  47. list of FTC teaser sites by dajr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://www.wemarket4u.net/
    Yes, really. Domain is registered to the federal trade commission.

  48. Oops by Pinball+Wizard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    guess I should have looked for the email link first. You can't actually email them your information - because when you get to the next page they identify themselves.


    Need. More. Sleep. Ignore parent post.

    --

    No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

  49. Re:Exactly how important or difficult is it to fak by bluGill · · Score: 3

    only thing that drives our society is money.

    don't be such a cynic. Just because comptuer geeks never find it doesn't mean there isn't anything more. There are a few people in the real world who have found love, and that drives them to things that money doesn't,

    Saddly, as a comptuer geek I can note the existance of this phenomenon, but cannot accually participate. I also note that most who claim to have found it realise in 10 years that they have not. Still there are exceptions.

  50. Re:What ever happened to... by interiot · · Score: 2

    I personally much prefer government-sponsored education to government-mandated restrictions.

  51. The FDA does have phony medical sites by Animats · · Score: 2

    The FDA and FTC do have some phony medical sites up. When you get to the "order page", you'll get a Government warning instead. Can you find them?

  52. You want funny? by autopr0n · · Score: 2

    Just looking over the 'investor relations' page. Looks like they recently changed their stock symbol.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:You want funny? by EisPick · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looks like they recently changed their stock symbol

      That's because they got kicked off the NYSE. Only NYSE stocks have ticker symbols of 3 or fewer characters. As an OTC stock, they had to pick a new symbol.

    2. Re:You want funny? by MaxVlast · · Score: 2

      From that page... "Enron markets electricity and natural gas, delivers energy and other physical commodities, and provides financial and risk management services to customers around the world."

      Quality financial risk management services, eh?

      --
      There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
    3. Re:You want funny? by mmontour · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's because they got kicked off the NYSE. Only NYSE stocks have ticker symbols of 3 or fewer characters. As an OTC stock, they had to pick a new symbol.

      They (ENRNQ) only got to pick the first 4 letters of their symbol - the "Q" suffix indicates the company is involved in bankruptcy proceedings. There's a table of codes here if anyone's interested.

  53. How about a fake election scam? by SimHacker · · Score: 3, Insightful
    When you turn in your butterfly ballot with a vote for George W. Bush, it's rejected and you get a note back saying:

    "You just accidentally voted for George W Bush! That was extremely foolish. But it doesn't matter because the outcome of the election is up to Enron and the Supreme Court."

    -Don

    --
    Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  54. bad HTML is a giveaway by option8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    any site that fails to use a BGCOLOR tags in its body definition immediately comes under suspicion. i browse using netscape, and the default background color for undefined pages is "Netscape Grey" and not white, as it is under explorer.

    as soon as i see graphics with white halos hovering on a grey background, i know the site is run by an inexperienced webmaster, and any information on the site is likely fraudulent.

    take, for example, Slashdot's light mode...

    1. Re:bad HTML is a giveaway by Reziac · · Score: 2

      Actually, a MAJOR attraction of Slashdot Lite-mode is the grey background in Netscape. Much easier on the aging eyes than white. And some sites don't use a BGCOLOR because they use a background image that contrasts with their default print colour, but if a background colour were defined, the print would disappear for people who don't load images.

      That aside, the HTML looked like parody-style right off to me, but I ain't no web-newbie.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    2. Re:bad HTML is a giveaway by option8 · · Score: 2

      yeesh. you people obviosly fail to see my poor attempt at humor here.

      the implication, obviously, is that the slashdot light mode should have a bgcolor of white set, so its graphics don't all have white halos, and that since it looks rather unprofessional, that the information i find on the site is therefore unreliable.

      sure, it's not obvious humor, but wake up and smell the irony.

  55. Slashtard Bingo! by grytpype · · Score: 2

    Offtopic gripe about evil copyright-holding corporation!

    --

    - Have a picture

  56. Re:What ever happened to... by Flower · · Score: 2
    I really wish the government would do more of these things and educate people rather than have them screw up so badly that I'll be buying them goverment cheese for the next 30+ years.

    We end up paying more for the people who got scammed then we pay for hosting an investment honeypot or hundred.

    --
    I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
  57. SEC's own list of their "teaser pages" by Takeel · · Score: 3, Informative
    The SEC appears to have a list of past investment "teaser pages," complete with page hit statistics, at this url:

    http://www.wemarket4u.net/

    It looks like they've been doing this for around two years now.

  58. GREAT! by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now all i need to do is seed the internet with copies of said sites - however I will not tell the people about their unwise investing... rather I will take their investments and apply them to my world domination fund!!!

    Thanks SEC.

  59. Re:Exactly how important or difficult is it to fak by geekoid · · Score: 2

    man,how depressing are you? sheeesh.
    I've been a computer geel since '81, and an electronic geek for as long as I can remember. I built my first radio when I was 7, and explained how it worked.
    I have been married for just about 12 years, and I've been in love for 14 years.
    The key is, get out and do something else. take up kyaking, or climbing, or surfing, something, anything that has little to do with computers.
    There are plent of intelegent attarctive people out there, not all of them are geeks.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  60. $.02: Not effective. by mjh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think the SEC really gets it. I've been wrong lots of times before and I might be here. Personally, whenever I see a website that contains something that I'm even moderately curious about, I click on their "order here" button even if I'm not going to order anything. My hopes is that they might have some additional piece of critical information that wasn't obvious in the rest of their sight (for example shipping costs, payment options, etc). The point is that I generally investigate a site pretty thoroughly before I commit to sending any of *my* information to them.

    I doubt that I'm alone in this practice. What this means is that clicking on the "gotcha link" at McWhortle.com isn't really a gotcha. It's just part of trying to find out additional information about the company. If you really want to implement the "gotcha" I would think you'd have to delay the "gotcha" right up until someone actually is really ready to bid/purchase/whatever. You got to get to the point, I'd think, where people are actually thinking about doing this, and *then* hit them with the "gotcha". Otherwise, anyone who gets to the current "gotcha page" is going to dismiss it with, "Well, yeah I kinda thought this wasn't right. Glad I don't get caught by these things. Glad I don't have to worry about these kind of scams... on the other hand, check out this other site! Wow, investments in working cold fusion?"

    I would think if you're trying to convince someone that they are too gullible, you got to catch them in the process of actually having taken the bait. Otherwise, they're not likely to learn.

    $.02. Am I off my rocker?

    --
    Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
    1. Re:$.02: Not effective. by Gannoc · · Score: 2
      You got to get to the point, I'd think, where people are actually thinking about doing this, and *then* hit them with the "gotcha".

      I thought that too; but think about it.

      How far can they go? Can they have people type in their credit card number and hit submit? They'd have people calling up the SEC and screaming that they just got scammed, and the website told them so. Not joking.

      Also, if people feel stupid, they get pissed off. This way, people can say that THEY would NEVER have really fallen for it...

    2. Re:$.02: Not effective. by mjh · · Score: 2

      Or how about not actually collecting the information. So, for example when you give the credit card info it takes you to a page that, in addtion to gotcha, it says, "None of the information that you provided in the previous screen was stored anywhere on our site. We have no record of any information that you gave us." They could, of course, provide the source code to the CGI that accepts the data for audit purposes.

      But the previous poster is probably right. There's probably no way that they can do this w/out getting into a very serious PR problem. And as anyone who's ever worked for the government can attest, your first job (above all else) is to stay out of the newspapers.

      --
      Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
    3. Re:$.02: Not effective. by Kanasta · · Score: 2

      I think a more fundamental problem is how stupid MCWHORTLE.COM sounds! Their 'logo' on the building is so ugly.

      If I was stupid enough to invest in places I don't know about, I would also be the type of person who would NOT invest in a place because their logo isn't pretty and their name sounds silly.

      Most scams I remember have cool sounding names and buzzwords in its title.

      This sounds like a wart.

    4. Re:$.02: Not effective. by Logic+Bomb · · Score: 2

      You're not off your rocker, but you're not right either. :-) If you do any investing, you should know that the sort of ridiculous returns the other web pages talk about are clear signs of a scam. In other words, the SEC thinks that anyone whose curiosity is even slightly piqued by that website is in danger of making a bad invesetment. They're right.

    5. Re:$.02: Not effective. by mjh · · Score: 2

      Excellent point!
      Score:+1,Insightful (Virtual Moderator Point).

      --
      Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  61. I gotta better idea! by Ogerman · · Score: 2

    Yes! it's perfect! Muahahah! We'll create a whole bunch of fake companies, put up flashy web pages with trendy earthtone color-schemes, advertise things people need like.. uh.. value-added B2B online toilet paper warehouses. Then we'll launch a bunch of fake IPO's that'll go wild because we're on the Internet and everybody knows the future of business is on the Internet! Yes. And then we'll take the money and run! That'll teach the fools to not believe all they read AND it'll stimulate the economy at the very same time!! Muahahah!

    Oh wait..

  62. Isn't this kinda like... by Ogerman · · Score: 2

    ..trying to stop Napster by uploading renamed MP3's of Homer Simpson repeatedly saying D'oh!

  63. Re:actually the First Clue is... by Eccles · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hmm, if there are enough in the air for this imaginary device to detect, then wouldn't I be breathing them in?

    Yes, but surface leptins are not hazardous even when inhaled (at least at typical doses). You need to inhale at least one entire bactirium or virus to get infected. The McWhortle leptinate detector thus detects the harmful materials before they can harm you.

    Send $10 for a prospectus, or $100 for a distributor's kit, to:
    McWhortle Industries
    c/o I. P. Daily
    123 Easy Street
    Anytown USA 33333

    --
    Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
  64. Government lies are lies. by Futurepower(tm) · · Score: 2


    It's true, the lies are not intended to be destructive. But I think that they are unintentionally destructive, because they make us all realize that our government cannot be trusted not to lie.

    I am very much for educating the public. This, in my opinion, is not the way to do it.

    --
    Bush's education improvements were
    1. Re:Government lies are lies. by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 2

      Are you kidding? What better lesson could the public possibly learn than that governments lie?

    2. Re:Government lies are lies. by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      because they make us all realize that our government cannot be trusted not to lie.

      If Watergate and Iran-Contra and all the stuff about Social Security haven't taught them that yet, why do you think some website with no intent to defraud or ability to harm will?

  65. Here's all of them, with hit stats by twoflower · · Score: 3, Informative

    Go to the front page here, to see how many suckers each site has gotten:

    http://www.wemarket4u.net/

    Twoflower

    --


    --
    Twoflower
  66. This is perfect by guttentag · · Score: 4, Funny
    Now I can set up a fake investment site, and if anyone actually calls my bluff, I can avoid prosecution by sending them the following email:
    Congratulations! You've beaten the SEC Internet Trust Challenge! This is actually a fake investment site set up by the SEC to teach consumers about trust on the Internet. We'll refund your money within 30 days AND send you your Winner's Bonus. Thanks for playing, and remember: it pays to be Safe on the Internet!

    Bob Johnson
    Ass't Director of Consumer Protection, F Section
    Securities and Exchange Commission
    Washington, DC 20006

    1. Re:This is perfect by doorbot.com · · Score: 2

      Great idea... impersonating Federal employee will put you away for a lot longer than setting up a fake investment website.

      I say go for it.

  67. Enron Human Rights Statement by Kamel+Jockey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Did anyone read the Enron Human Rights Statement? The part concerning "fair compensation" for employees was quite laughable :)

    Honorable mentions also go to the clause concerning the conducting of businesses according to given laws, along with the section concerning "Respect".

    --
    In case of fire, do not use elevator. Use water!
    1. Re:Enron Human Rights Statement by shyster · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Did anyone read the Enron Human Rights Statement [enron.com]? The part concerning "fair compensation" for employees was quite laughable :) Honorable mentions also go to the clause concerning the conducting of businesses according to given laws, along with the section concerning "Respect".

      I hate to defend Enron...but you should probably wait until the facts are straightened out before jumping to too many conclusions. It's very possible that Enron operated within the law...just about everything that I've heard about is (or could be, depending on unknown circumstances), technically, legal. Though Enron pushed them a liitle further than most

      It's legal to set up off shore subsidaries to launder money for tax purposes. (Exxon has 6, Enron had 900+)

      It's legal, and common practice, to have employer stock heavy 401k's. A lot of companies match 401k contributions with company stock. This is, in effect, free money to the employee. Many employees take advantage of this, and end up having an undiversified 401k account.

      It's legal to prevent employees from seeling their 401k stock...if it's not paid for. A lot of companies will finance the price of their stock fro their employees, and deduct the cost from their paycheck for a period of time. Until it's completely paid off, you can't sell the stock. It's possible that this was how it worked at Enron. The execs, making more money, were able to pay off their stock purchases befor rank ands filers.

      And of course, campaign contributions are legal. And so is asking an administration for help...and even getting it (see General Motors and the airline industry).

    2. Re:Enron Human Rights Statement by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 2

      Screw the letter of the law. I wan't to see companies prosecuted for violating the spirit of the law, or at least for being antisocial.

      -Paul Komarek

  68. Aggressive prosecution of securities fraud instead by swb · · Score: 2

    Instead of wasting valuable resources making fake fraud sites, why not invest those resources into vigorous prosecution of securities fraud? I mean start locking lots of guys up in maximum security facilities for a long time and strip them and their families of their assets. And start with Fortune 500 companies playing footsie with the rules. Rules not tough enough? Use some of the money to lobby congress for increased criminal penalties and jail time for securities fraud.

    If the enforcement resources are wasted on BS education efforts and the penalties are soft (fines, probation, country club minimum security "jails"), people are going to keep doing it.

    Pretending to steal my money and calling it fighting theft instead of actually finding and punishing people who steal is stupid, plain and simple.

  69. Project Moneypot :-) by Crispin+Cowan · · Score: 2
    Cousin to the Honeypot idea, meet the Moneypot :-)

    Crispin
    ----
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
    Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
    Available for purchase

  70. Re:Why bother? by clarkgoble · · Score: 2, Funny

    Come on, if Slashdotters decided energy policy it would be based on the original "Napster" business model. Come to think of it, perhaps that wasn't that different from what Enron did.

  71. SEC owns you by BrookHarty · · Score: 2

    IANAL.

    SEC doesnt have legal athority except in fraud, thats why they settle many cases with people for a cut of the profit.

    Many people just let these agencies run them over, you do have legal rights. And surprise, sometimes our courts uphold them.

  72. not a yahoo story by mutzinator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The SEC didn't get Yahoo to write a story on them, they just released a press release through PRNewswire. Yahoo picks these up and carries them. Note both the "WASHINGTON, Jan. 25 /PRNewswire/" at the beginning and "SOURCE: McWhortle Enterprises, Inc." at the top and bottom.

  73. Ours should be the first that tries honesty. by Futurepower(tm) · · Score: 2


    It is a good lesson. But it would be extremely valuable if our government was the one that tried honesty.

    --
    Bush's education improvements were
    1. Re:Ours should be the first that tries honesty. by pheonix · · Score: 2

      This must be a troll, because even Mr. Rogers isn't this naive. This is lying like every actor in Hollywood lies when they play a role. This is a lie like an undercover cop. In short, it's not a lie... posing, yes, a lie, no.

  74. Crime Jamming by jamesmartinluther · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is an interesting episode of "crime jamming" and reminds me of strategies to reduce the population of unwanted insects. Criminals are exposed by dilluting their means to scam people with "neutered" sites.

    I could see this successfully applied to illegal online gambling, murder-for-hire, illegal forms of pornography, perhaps even to nab would-be terrorists.

    Unfortunately for the slashdot crowd, I could see the MPAA and other corporate orgs posting sites which catch people attempting to download software and content that they did not pay for. Hopefully, in this case, would-be bandits would only get Apple's favorite community service message: "Don't Steal Music".

    - James

  75. Re:Money by HerringFlavoredFowl · · Score: 3, Funny

    I smell cover-up, we are running a deficit, the SEC is putting up fraudulent web sites. I suspect they will take the users money and balance the budget.

    TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken

    --
    TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
  76. Re:All your scams are belong to us! by Danse · · Score: 2

    Well, if you're gonna slap 'em upside the head with an obvious forgery, what's the point of the site? They should make them at least competent. Those are the kinds of sites that you really need to watch out for.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  77. Re:I think that aspect of the site has changed by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 2

    Maybe they took it off after someone hacked the site so that it really did collect credit card numbers, and said it hadn't ;-)

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  78. Re:Why bother? by shyster · · Score: 2
    Come on, if Slashdotters decided energy policy it would be based on the original "Napster" business model. Come to think of it, perhaps that wasn't that different from what Enron did.

    Enron's business model was fine (treat energy (among other things) as a commodity to be traded and sold), it was their accounting practices that caused the trouble. Many corporations have debt (see: Amazon.com), they just don't try to hide it as much as Enron did. Note that almost all corporations engage in creative accounting practives (known as window-dressing) to make themselves look better...but Enron went a bit further than that.

    Oh yeah...and Enron basically laundered money to avoid paying taxes. And then that whole 401k debacle.

  79. Re:All your scams are belong to us! by peccary · · Score: 2

    The perspective is f'd up, too.
    The photo is taken at an angle to the building, so the lines aren't square, but the logo is.

  80. Re: different story by CMiYC · · Score: 2

    That's slashdot for you....

  81. Sounds like a good idea... by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 2

    ... As long as they don't spam me with solicitations to invest in this scheme!

  82. Re:Why bother? by ahde · · Score: 2

    Um... GE wrote our energy policy.

    Before the California power shortage, they supplied the power for half the country -- the eastern half. Now, thanks to that travesty, General Electric (DBA California Edison) gets bailed out by the state, watches their western competition (PGE) go bankrupt, and gets a virtual monopoly with locked in rEdiculous prices and laws that say they can gouge the public. They have their sights turned on Bonneville which has the Northwest locked up (all those free power dams), which is still nominally "owned" by the Federal Government, who, with Enron as broker, made a fortune on the artificially imposed "spot market".

    Enron collapsed when the California power shortage magically disappeared because they weren't making 1000% profits anymore.

  83. Found another one by Radical+Rad · · Score: 2, Funny
    http://www.enron.com/corp/investors/annuals/2000/o urvalues.html

    This site was created by the SEC, FTC, NASD, with a little help from their friends, the Whitehouse.

    The agencies and groups, except one, created the site because of an increase in investment scams. But the Bush Administration has invoked executive privaledge to keep its reasons for helping to create the site secret.

    The site shows some of the telltale signs of online investment fraud. Promises of fast and high profits, with little or no risk, are classic red flags of fraud. And one obvious tip off was that they claimed to be a broadband provider who's 'business model is working.'

  84. Re:All your scams are belong to us! by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 2

    Well, fix it up if you know how, and submit the result! If you're an American, think of it as volunteering for your country.

    -Paul Komarek

  85. We're not the target audience. by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 3

    Okay folks. Many people are claiming that nobody would be stupid enough to fall for the (known) SEC fakes. Especially if their fake status becomes "common knowledge". Well, I've got some news for you.

    There are people who forward chain letters because they're afraid they'll die if they don't. There are people who believe Amway will make them rich. There are people who think Scientology makes sense. There are people who killed themselves in late 1999 (IIRC) to meet on the backside of a comet.

    There are people who believe that Bill Gates will pay them for being part of an email tracking experiment. There are people who believe computer viruses can make your ice cream go all melty (well, maybe that's stretching things...). Some people gave money, of their own free will, to Donald Trump.

    And there are people who believed GW Bush had a "clear policy for the Middle East" during the presidential debates.

    You could show the mcwhortle site to these people, tell them it's a fake, and they'd still fall for it. While we like to claim that those who write "first post" are the least intelligent creatures on earth, they're already head-and-shoulders above the people the SEC is trying to help. Many of these people are retired, and hoping to get something back from the society they gave 40+ years of work to (like my father). Some of these people abandon all reason when it comes to this hope (unlike my father, thankfully).

    The SEC is trying to reduce the number of fraud-related tragedies among these people, and I think it's a good thing. In fact, I think this is one of the coolest things I've seen our government do for the public, ever. The SEC seems to have a clue about real life and real people, unlike the Whitehouse and Congress (no matter who is in residence at the time).

    -Paul Komarek

  86. Orson Swindle? by jkovach · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does it strike anyone besides me as just a wee bit wrong to have an FTC Commissioner named Mr. Swindle?

  87. Re:I think that aspect of the site has changed by Tony-A · · Score: 2

    Still there.
    http://mcwhortle.com/investnow.htm
    "Bidding is now accepted for Stage 2 of the McWhortle Enterprises Pre-IPO offering. Estimated share value is approximately $10, which will, upon conclusion of the IPO offering in three (3) months, be worth more than 400 times the initial investment. To bid on these shares, you must quickly e-mail us the number of shares you wish to purchase, together with your major credit card number and social security number (for identification) so we can reserve your slot."

    Do people actually fall for these things?

  88. Easy acceptance that your government lies... by Futurepower(tm) · · Score: 2


    Easy acceptance that your government lies is acknowledgement that it is not your government.

    --
    Bush's education improvements were
  89. Is responsible government beyond imagining? by Futurepower(tm) · · Score: 2


    It's not a troll. I've learned a lot from the responses. Some people seem to feel that asking their government to be responsible is beyond imagining.

    If you are a U.S. citizen, you pay for this attitude. You pay Israel $905 per year for every man, woman, and child who lives there. Why? Apparently so that U.S. weapons makers can make more profit.

    If you allow your government to lie, you can be sure of two things: 1) You won't be the one in control. 2) You will pay.

    The U.S. government does a lot of things you probably don't suspect and for which, if you are a U.S. citizen, you probably don't want to pay. For example, the U.S. government brought Arabs to the U.S. and trained them in terrorism. The U.S. government was planning to attack Afghanistan long before the September 11, 2001 terrorism in the U.S. because a profitable oil and gas pipeline is planned that must go through Afghanistan. The terrorism apparently gave the government the excuse for which it was looking. For more about this, see the collection of links in What should be the Response to Violence?.

    --
    Bush's education improvements were
  90. Re:Why bother? by shyster · · Score: 2
    Um, if the business model was fine, then why did they have to have to use questionable accounting practices (to hide the massive debt)? Maybe to cover the fact that the business model was a load of bull wank in the first place? Maybe they could have tried to sell bottled linux geek farts.

    No, there was, and isn't, anything wrong with their basic business model. I actuallt have a client (Florida Gas Utilities) that does very well doing the same thing...albeit on a smaller scale.

    Enron was a bit ambitous after the success of their trading in energy markets, however. They got into broadband, telephone, and some other markets. And just becasue you have debt doesn't necessarily mean that the plan is flawed. Most companies start out with debt, then go into debt further to expand, advertise, etc., and continually have debt. Just like you and me (think mortgage, credit cards, and car loan), it's difficult for a company to survive and make a profit without carrying debt.

    Was Enron's debt too high? Yes, it was...but not, AFAIK, as a result of their busines plan. More than likely, bad management is the culprit. And trying to expand a bit too much a bit too fast.

    And I'm sure there's some trolls out there who would love to buy your farts.