Slashdot Mirror
Limited-Use DVD Technology
ps_inkling writes: "Two companies are creating different techniques to make DVD discs unusable after a set period of time. SpectraDisc has a patent on a limited-play DVD technology; FlexPlay is currently developing limited play DVD technology. The SpectraDisc technique is to coat the DVD with a film, then wrap the DVD in an anaerobic package.
The idea is to sell these 'play-once' DVD movies at a substantial discount to regular DVDs as a way to compete with pay-per-view or movie ticket outlets."
A technology flops, and companies try to resurrect it nonetheless. Don't they remember Circuit City's Divx fiasco?
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
Do theny never learn? Sure, now they do not require you to connect ot the Big Brother, Co. to view it, but who will want this anyway? And how would they handle liability, if it does not play??
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
"creating more waste faster than ever imagined"
I don't get it.
So, now we see why they were so keen to eliminate DVD copying software. If only they hadn't made DVD copying a complete and utter technical impossibility.
Will this technology fade once DVD-R comes into the mainstream?
0x0D 0x0A
And it failed miserably. My uncle's got a DivX player that's near-useless. He should've got one that also played regular DVDs - but hey, he was an early adopter. I don't think limited-use discs or other media makes sense. People want to *own* the movies and music they buy. Otherwise, everyone would listen to the radio all the time, or get pay-per-view movies on their cable or satellite. But hey - what do I know? I'm just an American Consumer - I vote with my dollar. And my dollar won't be buying a use-once disc. Unless you can rip it to DivX;-).
Wouldn't that make Nitrogen gas illegal under the DMCA as a circumvention?
My handle breaks slashcode, what does your handle do?
Once is all I need to copy it :)
The next thing you know, they'll be trying to sell us eat-once popcorn to go with our play-once dvd
---
Oregon
No, no they don't.
Especially not these ones... have you heard some of thier reasons why they think DeCSS is bad?
The biggest problem with DivX was the requirement for specific hardware. If these DVDs play in any DVD player, and they're sold for cheap (approximately rental price), it certainly could work.
I rent movies constantly, and buy those I like enough to watch again. If I could pick up a disc for $3-4 and not have to return it to the store, that could be extremely convenient. As long as I don't have to buy a special player, hook it up to my phone line, and shop only at Circuit City. That's why DivX failed, not because the concept was necessarily bad.
How about DVDs that disintegrate after a period of time? Maybe after subjected to the heat of a DVD player or something. Then you have no waste. Like those packing peanuts made of starch. They disolve in water so you don't have to worry about styrofoam waste from packing material anymore.
No todo lo que es oro brilla
Yes, you're right : Self-Destructing DVDs: Son of DIVX just over 2 years ago
---
Oregon
Imagine the uses for it.
In the every box of cheerios you get a copy of the Powerrangers movie that you can play 3 times before you have to buy another box.
This would enable cheap short life DvD's to be given away to people. Perhaps a movie mag could put on it all the new previews they had at such a small cost. As much as i dont like the idea there are many uses for this technology.
Also I could see some of those online places that will let you rent DvD's over the net use such a thing. They send it out and you get to watch it twice or three times and they save money buy not having to worry about postage. I kinda hope this works and kinda don't due to it could become the standard and evuantally you wont be able to buy movies anymore but be forced to rent them.
So the point of my comment is this. Any technology when used can be either good or bad. This has the future of both. I imagine both uses would get used out of it.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
If I just wanted to watch a movie once, I'd rent it from my local Blockbuster or similar video store. Those places carry DVDs now.
But if I buy a product, I damn well want to use it more than once! (Well, a data-carrying product, anyway. Food is a different story...)
I'm sure they could have tried to make VHS tapes, audio cassettes, and so on, that would only play once. Nobody was fool enough to try it until now.
I predict this thing will crash and burn at least as badly as DivX did.
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
You're confusing the two, my friend.
;-) on the other hand is merely an encoding scheme for movies that is used frequently by folks with DVDs to save them to secondary storage at around 500MB - 1GB per movie while retaining much of the original video and sound quality.
DIVX was an original venture by Circuit City to promote discs similar to the ones linked to in this story. They were "play a few times and it's gone", so essentially you were renting a disc that would self-destruct.
DivX
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
The difference between Circuit City's fiasco and this is that divx required a special player which dialed an 800 number to see if you're eligible to play the disk. That part wasn't so horrible. The bad part is that CC wasn't making any money with it so they dropped it and screwed all the people who had paid extra for the specialized players.
;)
These new ideas are entirely different.. they rely on the disc itself to limit how many times you can play it. I, for one, wouldn't mind paying $1-2 for a DVD which allows me to watch a movie a couple times until the coating on the disk makes it unreadable. You only have to read it once to rip it.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Well, DIVX was hindered by the need for a "DIVX-enabled" drive. In addition, that "DIVX-enabled" player had to be connected to a phone line, and all in all it was a rather poor setup.
I suspect that, down the road, somebody will discover that these cause damage to some players, and this will all blow up in a firestorm. Let's hope these two companies did their homework really well.
Or, hell, we could all just still buy the real ones.
So if you put those discs in a vacuum, you'd be able to store them almost indefinately? It's fairly easy to make a box for these discs and pump all the air out of it.
;-) or record them to DVD-R once the discs are cheaper.
Alternatively, there's probably a way to chemically treat the "special coating" so that it doesn't oxidize.
Of course, you could also just rip the DVD's to your hard drive and convert them to DivX
Hard drives are still the only commonly available technology that doesn't require you to have big piles of stuff (discs, tapes) around.
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
This, if implemented, would be a great reason to legalize DVD backup solutions. Right now, the DVD is virtually not wearing out. But if it does, the consumer can argue all kinds of standard consumer protection arguments in favor of his right to watch the DVD *as the content is licensed*, like once, but to use the content when he is ready. It will be tough defense for the DVD people because there will be very legitimate reason to back it up.
Ahh yes, another piece of junk for us to accumulate. I think I'll shelve the used discs on my bookcase, next to the handbook on "How to reduce clutter".
Wouldn't it be nice for a change if our culture moved away from selling to people as much junk as they can buy? Disposable diapers, disposable cameras, disposable cellphones, etc. I find that many people lead just as disposable lives, unfortunately -- with the quality of life getting emptier as people get richer.
Yes, yes, I know that all marketing is about making people want something they didn't know they needed before. Just because we're accustomed to it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I look forward to the day when we can overcome our material desires, the need to one-up our neighbors, and express our achievement through spending money.
Maybe science, freedom of information, and education will get us there someday. I hope.
I'm assuming that this "film coating" is the same tech we heard about a while back that causes the DVD disc to corrode into uselessness shortly after the film is exposed to reader light ...
... digitally identical playback, every time, unlike VHS, which corroded and is useless after a few years.
Is anyone else worried that this film might "rub off" onto your DVD tray, and get onto one of your other discs afterward? I'd certainly be pissed to discover that the rental DVD I purchased destroyed the discs I already own... I don't think there's a conspiracy here, but I don't think this film is a good thing, either.
To be honest, if I want to rent a DVD, I go to blockbuster, or Hollywood Video if there's one near by. It's cheap, it's pretty painless, and there's no risk of the disc destroying my setup
One thing that is VERY nice about DVD rentals is that you can watch the movie one year or eight years after the video store acquired it, and -- provided the disc is readable -- you get the same experience
~Aaron.
student of animation and the fine arts
... on Mission Impossible. Jim sticks in those shiny discs in and it self destructs after it plays once...
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
So I have to run to the store, buy something that will cost what.. $2 (I would hope), bring it back, pop it in.. watch.. remove. Place coffee on
Think outside the square son....
Service stations have the DVD's on the counter and sell them for $5 a pop. You fill your car up with gas, see a new release and think "fuck it, I don't have anything on tonight, may as well buy this one"...
getting shat on even more...
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
At a time when cities are striving for a 50 or 75 percent reduction in waste going to landfills it is downright disgusting to be engineering throw-away technology. We have enough AOL CDs occupying our landfills. We don't need DVDs there too, especially when the consumer doesn't even want limited-use tech.
I bet within 5 years there is a special "waste tax" on every unit manufacturered (sorta like tax on soda cans) because we know the items will end up in the landfill.
If the disk is rendered unreadable by a reaction involving oxegen, all that is needed to keep the DVD's from going bad is to store them in an oxygen free environment. After you open the packaging, watch the DVD, then place it in an airtight package with some yeast and water (the activated yeast will consume the oxygen in the container) and the disk should still be playable at a later time providing the new packaging is airtight, and you consume all the oxygen.
Of course the other obvious way to get around this is to rip the contents and burn your own.
Comments should be like skirts. Short enough to keep your attention, but long enough to cover the subject
First off, I just wonder how they're going to make this all enviro-safe, considering that they're talking about a disposable commodity. With all the films and coatings, you have to hope these things can be recycled.
Second, it just doesn't strike me that a disc couldn't simply be 'fixed'. *spritz spritz*, a few blasts of a nice clear heat-resistant coating and you've got a sealed item that'd still fit in the tolerances of a DVD drive. I bet it only takes a few days, if these things actually make it to market, before someone discovers what can of stuff to buy to make instant-preservations.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Y'know, for all the shortcomings of Divx (special players, mounting costs, VHS-Beta-style format war, deceptive advertising, being unable to share discs, etc), it had one thing over both of these harebrained schemes.
Replayability.
You could purchase additional viewing windows, and you would be a sent a bill by HQ each month. Pay-per-view DVDS - it's as dumb as it sounds, especially since many of the discs had no special features, were pan-n-scan, and basically had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. At least you could replay your own discs.
These dumbshit ideas... 3 days, and they're in the trash, never to be viewed again. The wrapping and case/sleeve also go in the trash. FlexPlay presents a claim that 100 million DVDs can fit into a 10m^3 block. It's still additional waste, of landfill space, of packaging, and of the resources and energy that went into producing a DVD that craps itself after 3 days. It's not as if you can return the flick for someone else to enjoy - the disc is WASTED. Perfect for the disposable society, but I thought we were trying to move away from that?
As for the "save the environment by driving your car less" claim attached to this... build cleaner cars before looking for excuses to keep the current ones.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
normally I'm not a environment type of guy but the same thought occured to me when divx came out as now. theres going to be a huge amount of waste from this. is it really neccesary to make a big landfill of non-useable discs just so Blockbuster can compete with PPV?
sigh. my brain hurts from corporate stupidity.
Yes, I noticed that too. I have to wonder if there aren't some market research people out there saying this to each-other:
"Hey, you don't think consumers and retail establishments will associate this with DIVX, do you?"
"I dunno, let's put out a press release, and see what the reaction is..."
I'm not sure if there are any official numbers attesting to this, but the few people I know of that actually spend money on pay-per-view (and I do mean "few," since it tends to cost more than a 3- or 5-day VHS rental) videotape the PPV broadcast.
All I can see this doing is either removing the middleman between the movie company and the "unauthorized" copiers or flopping on its face when these kinds of people run into copy protection.
An introduction of this technology will almost certainly increase DVD piracy, as people will see an opportunity to get a full movie cheap. FlexPlay, at least, claims their discs will work in all DVD drives, including DVD-ROMs. The market for DVD burners, currently technophile and media professional toys, may witness a small upsurge in demand, and ripping tools will become popular as the damn-copyright set notes the obvious ways around the time limit - make copies of the discs.
There's no way this can come to any good. Abort mission.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
If the studios want it to work, they'll simply stop making regular DVDs and only sell these. If the disc is designed to decay after a limited time, as seems to be the case, then it won't necessarily be a limitation that can be overcome, unless you can figure out how to stop the deterioration. As for ripping, I saw an article the other day describing the studios' desire to get watermarking into their DVDs and coerce drive makers to build drives that won't rip or burn a watermarked disc.
As we all know, someone will most likely find a way around all this, but this isn't aimed at computer geeks; it's aimed at the mass market, where people aren't going to be so technically savvy. It's also a nice strategy for going after rental revenue. If this really takes off, then the movie rental chains lose rental revenue, and that money goes to the studios instead.
My guess: Unless the studios stop making regular DVDs, this will not take off in a big way. If they do stop, they're going to piss a lot of people off. Will those people knuckle under and buy? Who knows.
That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
It's psycological. We don't mind if it's a rental, we dont feel like we own it. The actual price tag isn't that important. I don't think they will be able to get "rental" into people's heads. As long as the old disk is around, unwatchable, or they had to throw it away, they're going to feel screwed.
Haven't you ever felt like something is being wasted when you throw away an AOL CD?
To me this would cause more piracy. If I rented a disc and knew it was going to expire the first thing I'd do is copy it. Once copied I'd know it couldn't expire so I'd give the original to the kids and put the backup into my own collection.
I do the same thing with CD's now. I make a copy which I use, keep a copy on the hdd, and put the original into a safe spot. I've done the same thing with DVD's from time to time but not as much as the cases for DVD's seem to work better in my experience.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
If these discs end up being cheaper than dvd rentals i suppose you could always intercept the video out and then re-encode it on your hard-drive.
Also, i sometimes wonder if these people have any kind of soul. I mean, don't they feel even a little bit bad about producing all this excess waste intentionally? Isn't our society wasteful enough as it is?
lysergically yours
A play once dvd priced at $5.88 or just a buck would severely break a store. Customers wont know the difference from the play once dvd's or the standard dvds. They will see that cheap price for say, Fast and the furious and nab it before someone else does. Then when they get home the kids will spark up the dvd player while mom is in the kitchen cooking. Mom calls the kids for dinner and the kids stop the dvd player and have dinner. The family retires back to the living room and starts the dvd from the beginning only to find mom is not going to see any of it because the dvd has alredy burned off it's boot sector.
You will turn up with upset customers, fast.
I work at a walmart in the nortwest houston area. I can vouch for the fact that customers are not very quick at understanding things much less take the time to read anything. All they see is a Price, and an object they want. A while back we were stocking Jarassic part 3 in dvd. One full screen, one wide screen. Most customers dont have a clue there a difference and have a problem with the wide screen letter box format. Most of them come back and ask about full screen. They didnt see a little sliver of text at the bottom of the dvd that said wide screen.
Customers arent very bright when they come in stores. They will plow through water on the floor, spilled legos, anything. They never see signs higher than 6 foot, (never can find the 2 signs in the store both with 3 ft letters saying restrooms).
Customers seem to check their brains at the door and dont understand what Out of stock means and ask, "well, what does that mean?" Out of stock means out of stock, there is not a magic hat we can pull a 19 inch tv out of and if you ask me again Im going to scream!
These things are going to be bad stuff. Just think, they might write games to these discs. Then we will have a war on our hands.
DRACO-
Consider yourself blessed if you are sneezed on by a dragon and only get wet, it could have been a fireball.
You know, not simply to be controversial, but I don't understand the big problem a lot of people here seem to have with this idea. People are comparing this to DivX (evil). This is *not* DivX, not even close. DivX required special hardware. DivX required that the user give over their credit card info and hook the player up to a phone line. DivX required the user to live with the fact that someone, somewhere, was recording everything they watched on their DivX player. This is not DivX.
What this is, however, is a pretty revolutionary idea for the world of video rental and I'm suprised more people aren't seeing this. This, if successful, has the full potential to completely change the way people rent movies. Suddenly, with this technology, any retail outlet has the full fredom of becoming a video-rental store, without any of the additional overhead involved of tracking discs, late returns, lost/damaged media, collection agencies, etc. Instead, any convenience store owner can go down to Costco and pick up a box of movies, rip open the top, and set the box on the counter next to the cheap lighters, beef jerky, and plastic roses. Consider that. How do you think this is going to affect rental chains like Blockbuster if every grocery store stocks the latest movie releases in the impulse-buy section of checkout lines, between the tabloids and the candy bars? It won't completely kill video rental stores, to be sure, because there still needs to be a place to non new-release movies, but it will take a chunk of their pie.
Additionally, this promises to change the whole distribution method for existing video rental stores. Previously, when a new movie was about to be released, discs and vhs tapes would go on the market to rental outlets for an extreme price of like $80 a pop, and this is how the publishers would make a good chunk of money off of the rental market. Only after the rental outlets have had a chance to get the latest-greatest movies, would they go on the market to the general consumer at a more normal price. This technology allows publishers to do away with that step, and release new movies to rental and consumer markets simultaneously. Of course, how many people are going to go to a video rental store to rent the latest and greatest when they can get it in the checkout line of "Safeway" remains to be seen. But the argument remains that, on the distribution side for movie rentals, this technology would simplify things immensly.
Some people point out that with this technology, you could by the disc, take it home, and rip it to make a copy. Sure, but couldn't you do that already with rental discs from a video store? Nothing has changed there. There are no new copyprotection mechanisms introduced with this tech. All the same all circumventable copy protection techniques still apply. If you want to pirate, you still have just as many options as you had before. In fact, this tech gives you a new one cause, unlike with traditional rental media, shop owerns aren't going to be so paranoid about people shoplifing movies.
The one significant concern that I've heard and I completely agree with is the environmental issue. Yes, this further advances the disposable society by giving us one more thing to clog our landfills with. Is it a huge issue? I don't think so. We throw more material away when we toss out an empty full sized bag of doritos. However, there is a certain "save gas/polution cause people don't have to take it back to the store" factor.. tho I'm not sure how much I'd trust the little environmentalist's report on how significant a savings that would be.
Anyways, I could go on but this is long enough. In short, this isn't the next frontier of evil in the media universe. It might even be useful.
This just can't compete with pay-per-view.. I'm sorry.. The reason that people get pay-per-view is to record it. I don't know anyone that pays the $8 or whatever a ppv movie is that doesn't record it.
No one is going to buy a proprietary dvd that they can only play a few times when they can ppv the movie and record it and watch it infinate times.
Its a status thing.. people like to physically own a movie whether they bought it or copied it off ppv is irrelevant, the very idea that they can stockpile cassettes and then watch any movie they've already seen on a whim is appealing to people.
Inevitably this will be compared to the failed divx producted produced by circit city a few years back. (Neglecting the stupid proprietary player you had to buy) The main reason that divx failed, was not because of a consumor lack of interest, but instead because of the lack of industry support. The industry did not want to get behind a product that could be re-activated. It was their view that this product was just like a full version of the film. They realized full well (for once) that they were putting a product out there that would be cracked. With cracked divx floating around, everyone could have cheap movies. Who wouldn't want a $3.99 movie title.
:-)
The reason Limited-Use DVD's might succeed is this: if the companies involved can actually get these stupid things to distruct then the industry will back them. These companies work to make money by taking advantage of the consumer, and with little risk of the consumer pulling one over on the industry, the product is viable for them.
Also if this technology works it can be deployed immediately, there is no modifications that need to happen to your exsisting dvd players.
And for those that don't get out much, go to your local Blockbuster, notice anything? Way more dvd's now then ever before, why? More players, and this is the technology that the industry wants us to use.
I'm just happy I got my dvd player that plays all regions and allows me to turn off copy protection (to vhs).
The United States, a disposable nation. We build our lives around the convenience of Dixie cups, Saran Wrap, dime store paper plates, a Ziploc bags.
Now, disposable movies. Like we needed one more thing for the landfill?
CSS encryption + these two companies = more AOL cds
Waste products.
As Nancy Reagan was once said, "Just Say No!" :)
DiVX was quite possibly the stupidest idea ever invented, and anyone who actually bought one and now has a bunch of worthless coasters, well, really you got what you deserved, buying into a crappy technology that fucks consumers.
This idea sounds equally bad. Sure, they CLAIM to be competing with PPV and offering the disks at cheap prices, but I could envision a time where movie companies authorize these disks as a way to make you pay for the "rights" to watch the movie 10 times. More than that, tough, gotta pay again.
Terrible idea.
Exactly. For those of us with the kit to copy this is great, but we are not the target.
;-)
Blockbuster want these more than life itself. They can finally forget about dealing with returns - and always have inventory as they don't have to play the averages game. Just order a stack of disks and send them out.
It IS wasteful, not only do we have 20 CDs falling out of every computer mag we buy - we'll have a DVD to bin every time we 'hire' a movie.
This has to be weighed against the real waste of returning to the shop with the watched tape, all the time and effort involved in dealing with the returns process etc... Its still a bigger waste, but probably not by much.
The masses (and I dont mean that in a condescending manner) will love this.
"you mean I don't have to go back to the shop with the disk!! bingo!"
This technology is actually coming on line slower than I expected. Give the consumer what he wants. He wants movies to watch once, cheaply, when he wants it, with minimal hassle. This is a better option currently than movie on demand over a bit of wire.
Another benefit is that Blockbuser after Blockbuser will close as people get used to ordering films like pizzas. I can run to three video shops while holding my breath from my front door - bet thats down to 1 within a year of this hitting the street.
Maybe they'll fill those empty shops with coffee shops!
The best comparison to this technology is renting a DVD from your local Blockbuster. While I am not a big fan of Blockbuster, per se, I see absolutely *NO* advantages of this technology over renting at Blockbuster.
At Blockbuster, I walk in, give my $4, and walk home with any movie on DVD. I can watch this movie any number of times in a certain time period. With these discs, I walk into Blockbuster, put down my $4, and walk out with a movie on DVD that I can watch any number of times in a certain amount of time.
Why, then, would anyone get one of these?
Well, I suppose you do not have to return these new movies, but is that a big enough incentive?
If you charge $3.99 for one of these movies, I assume that Blockbuster is going to walk away with $2 per disk. That is a 100% return. On the other hand, if Blockbuster buys a new DVD for $20 and rents it 15 times at $4/rent, that is Blockbuster walking away with a 300% return on the investment.
On top of that, Blockbuster still has the movie! They can continue to rent it out, or sell it as a previewed move for $10, making even more.
No, this makes no sense for consumers or for the rental people.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Evening news:
:)
Today an undeground nail polish producer was arrested for making illegal substance to protect limited-play discs from limiting the play. Ever since limited play discs were adopted by movie studios all legal make-up companies stopped manufacturing of clear nail polish, as a thin layer of it, applied to the surface of the disc, prevents it from expiring. Last week authorities confiscated 20 gallon clean nail polish liquid from illegal alien, trying to smuggle it in through Mexican border, and today an undeground lab got busted.
In Entertainment news: Britney Spears new video release "My Smashing Songs" on limited play dvds have to be unlocked first by bathing th disc in diet pepsi. Dr. Pepper claims it can also be washed in diet Dr. Pepper, though quality of playback is not guaranteed...
p.s. as usual -- everything above is made up
Hyperom.com
I rent movies constantly, and buy those I like enough to watch again. If I could pick up a disc for $3-4 and not have to return it to the store, that could be extremely convenient
Dude, netflix.com. If dropping a DVD in the mail whenever you're tired of watching it isn't convenient enough for you... you are too fscking lazy ; ]
--Chemguru
Actually I once made a logo out of AOL discs from Barnes and Noble on my wall. There must have been at least 100 which is about 90 more than this idea will ever sell.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
Yeah, yeah, that $7 is for the Cindy Crawford vehicle Fair Game, but maybe good DVD's will drop in price like that, and at least you didn't pay to see it in the theatre.
-sk
The only certainty is entropy.
I don't know about anybody else, but when I signed up for the "Future" and this digital revolution, it was partly so that all non-physical art; literature, music and film, would be publicly accessible, for free, from a discreet and tastefully designed computer consul. --Preferably on a spacious and graceful starship.
The entire Star Trek universe was/is a weird Freudian hallucination wherein all the races are rarified aspects of our current selves.
This idea of taking something purely digital, something which is reproducible with no threat of waste or effort, and tying it to a wasteful, laborious and greedy method of storage and distribution is so bloody Ferengi, it makes me retch.
The flowers of humanity are not shared openly, but dangled like carrots in an infantile effort to 'get something'. How ugly and foolish!
We're a bunch of silly hobbits, squabbling over Bilbo's estate gifts, getting the name tags lost and digging holes in his basement.
Hooray for us.
I can't wait to start ripping off the media giants and distributing their crap for free to anybody who asks. Too bad most of it is unwatchable. --Though I suppose it'll make stealing it less time consuming in that I won't actually have to view any of it. . .
-Fantastic Lad
I return approximately 25% of my video store rentals on time. Despite being exactly their target demographic, I don't want to buy more plastic crap to throw away.
Why not work towards using DVDRW in stores? I haven't heard of DVDRW existing yet (maybe it does, I don't follow the news) but bear with me.
Use Case
1. Customer steps into store, picks "The Matrix" off the shelf.
2. Customer walks to counter. Pays money. Hands over the disc they rented last time (maybe yesterday, maybe six months ago)
3. Shop gives customer another DVDRW pre-loaded with "The Matrix", which they burnt a few days before when their cache was low. If customer had picked something obscure, they might need to wait a few minutes for a copy to be made up on the spot from a store master - ordering ahead will avoid this.
4. Customer leaves, views movie, returns disc to store when they want either another rental, or the deposit they paid for the disc back.
Piracy concerns
Sure, it means potentially lots of copies of media floating about, but that's what we have now with video libraries - except the video store pays up front for it. People can still duplicate VHS tapes at home etc. so there's no new piracy introduced.
People still need to bring their "DVD Rental Barn" disc back to rent another movie - or they pay extra deposit on a new disc - ie. not economical if deposit > price of a blank.
Security
Movie distibutors issue special "one rental shop only" master copies of their DVD movies, in some encrypted format. These master copies can be decrypted and duplicated by software that uses a CD Key (Half-Life, Quake3 etc) type of system to identify the video store. The CD-Key is linked server-side with the unique "one rental shop only" algorithm/seed issued to the rental store.
If EITHER the shop's master copies get ripped off physically or duplicated electronically, or if the software/CD-Key is duplicated, then decryption/duplication won't happen because the server-side check will fail.
If the "store master copy" encryption is cracked, then the store's library becomes pirateable. See reason why this doesn't matter above.
If both the "store master copy" entire library AND the CD-Key/software are stolen, the store claims on their insurance policy, then gets a re-issue of its entire catalogue. It is in the interests of a video store not to give media away - and video store employees to keep their jobs.
Privacy concerns
Customer data is not included in the information sent to the authentication server - it sits outside the duplication box altogether, preferably - and stays in the store. Of course, places like Blockbuster might want to offer discounts (laugh!) for opt-in profile tracking, etc. Wary consumers can cash in their old disc for a refunded deposit and sign up for a new one every time, if they're that way inclined, but I don't know anyone who does this with rental libraries now... perhaps priests who rent a bit of pr0n? but I digress.
What's in it for the Movie Industry
Perfect market statistics through the server-client authentication mechanism.
Lower overheads for disc manufacture.
Mega bucks because they can indirectly charge consumers, through billing rental stores based on volume per DVD - right now, they get nothing when you rent "Life of Brian" because the copy was paid for a decade ago by the video store.
How could it happen?
Once the technology is available to make DVDRW cost-effective, it could be piloted in existing stores. If it seems to work, it could expand from there, with perhaps a gradual (five year) shift to the new model, at a pace consumers drive themselves.
It doesn't even require commitment from all the major corporations at once - only for one to trial it, then another, and another, until they all get the idea.
Remember - I'm not trying to fix piracy, only late video rental return fines. This idea is licenced under the "take it, change it, do what you want and become a billionaire" boiling_point_ public licence.
"If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
I can see this, I start a movie, then I get a phone call from a friend or family member so I stop the disk, maybe go out to dinner with some friends. A few hours latter when I go to restart the disk it's destroyed. If it truely is play ONCE then they can't expect it to last more then a few hours...
Oh and I won't even start on the hassle of returning a damaged DVD where the package was cracked and air snuck in.
Now if it lasted a few days, like a rental does, then it might be worth the convinence of not having to return it, and it would be great to never have to go back to blockbuster again with a disc the previous renter had managed to scratch beyond usefullness. But truthfully I will go one renting and buying standard DVDs, and if like some people have mentioned they take that option away... then I'll just start using wares copies, not because I am cheap and don't want to pay... but because they offer what I want.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
Just thinking about potential uses... if the coating can be applied in a fashion that the coating only erodes AFTER being hit by the read laser... corporations or other groups such as Amnesty Int. could issue all offices with a stack of DVD's - on each DVD put large (say 16MB) random data files (ideally generated from a true random source such as background radio noise or leaky diodes) then each time something really confidential needs sending use the correct disk and file - the act of reading the file will cause to be zapped... the only part of the disk that needs to be permanent is the directory structure.
Is it just me or is this idea of woro (write once read once) abit Mission Impossibleish -- this DVD will self destruct in 1 day...
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
If this new read-once tech comes out into the mainstream, a few chemically-minded entrepreneurs will crank out read-once neutralizers to prevent decay of these discs. Looking at the basement Xtacy labs springing up everywhere (in BC, Canada at the least) assures me that if a bypass is found, it will become available en masse.
I think the assumption of the system's infallibility is inaccurate, as evidenced by the history of such schemes, ie. DivX et al. The only difference is that this is a physical copy prevention.
For every DRM there is an equal, opposite and excellent crack
I have a Friend who is collecting AOL cd's. He's going to shingle his Dog's doghouse with them (and at the rate we're giving them to him, maybe his house too).
For more ideas, I wholehartedly recommend this Google Search.
All they need do is to push to outlaw permanent storage mediums.
Sounds ridiculous?
All they have to do is the following. . .
This whole new scheme of destructo-disks just seems like a subtle and clever way to encourage the market in the direction similar to something described above.
Sound foolish? Ask yourself this: Do you think for an instant that any major corporation wouldn't immediately implement such a scheme if they thought they could get away with it? And then ask: Are people not getting dumb and pliable enough to not only decline fighting such a system, but to actually support the oh so 'reasonable' arguments the P.R. officers would use to promote it?
Read some of the silly regurgitations you see on Slashdot if you don't believe.
Ah well. This is why we call it the 'good' fight. We may be destined to lose, but that's not what matters, is it now?
-Fantastic Lad
Wrong. Late fees, which frequently cost more than the original rental, are a major revenue stream for Blockbuster and other movie rental companies. They don't have any incentive to back this sort of technology.
There is another point about this, by having to return stuff to the shop I'll bet they get a reasonable number of additional rentals from impulse decisions while returning itemsf.. At least for those who do it during opening hours.
On the other hand, if returns stop they can reduce staff counts, this may seve them more money than they loose..
But they still have ways to get additional revenue streams to partially replace these. How about an environmental charge, similar to a deposit on glass bottles (common here in Europe). You pay extra 'up front' for the disk, but if you bring it back this gets refunded (CD's etc have a very small recyclable content/value, but since when have people in the entertainment biz. let the facts get in the way of profit?). This way they get extra money from the lazy and drag you back into the shop too..
Meybe I ought to patent this as a business model?
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
So how long before we get a sealed unit DVD player. Sound viable to me. Build in a 100 disk storage carousel, a loading system which doesn't expose the disk to air - it only has to open the wrapping on the disk - and away you go. Would you use an inert gas in the carousel/player or would you evacuate it ? Sounds like the geek water conversation of the future 'I use a 100 capacity argon carousel' disdainful look 'really ? I use an evacuated player for higher laser read performance and self locking, low pressure helium storage cases'. What would be better ? Vacuum ? Or do you need gas to cool the equipment ? Does the laser oxidise the new coating on the DVD ? What happens if you want to replay the part that you just saw ? If you need gas for cooling, which would be best ? Helium ? Argon ? Neon ? Nitrogen ? Xenon ? If you used vacuum could you drop the laser power ? Would it mean better focussing ? Higher data density ?
I'm a little disappointed to not see more concern about the huge environmental problem this implies. I have enough guilt about all those damn AOL CDs - at least my CD writer's now burnproof.
Does anyone know if there's anything recyclable in these cheap convenient plastic discs?
This is not a sig
How 'bout a copy of Battlefield Earth that self-destructed before you watched it. I'd pay some bucks for that ...
[Insert pithy quote here]
Are they or are they not concerned with piracy?
buy the dvd cheap cause it will only play for a few hours. Then proceed to watch it then rip it or rip then watch as many times as you want. If they are tying to slow the pay-per-view industry its gonna have to cost something like 4 bucks a disk. This to a pirate is most likely going to be well worth it. Once our pirate friend makes his rip he can then distrubute it via p2p and friends for free.
I'm sure people will buy these no-return-rental [tm] DVDs and make their first play a rip, then play back from DivX as often as they like. Since it will run on a normal standalone DVD player, there is nothing else the supplier can do to ensure it only gets played once. Anything that someone says can be played once, will always have people flocking to prove otherwise, just like Oracle saying that their database system was unbreakable, people tried hard to prove them wrong. The manuafacturer of these DVDs will be able to use the "surprisingly" (well, for the industry people anyway) high sales to prove that people like this way of doing things, and will eventually loose out because they're charging rental prices and putting people off buying the full versions which they actually make money off.
Follow me
There has to be some better use for this technology. Instead of looking at the rental space, maybe they should concentrate their efforts on using them as promotional materials or something else which can be given away for free to the end user.
At least it's slightly better than DivX in that with DivX, you needed to purchase a special multihundred dollar player. DVD players are of course readily becoming a dime a dozen now.
Man, far more than the usual number of knee-jerk reactions, this time :-)
:-) Have you ever subscribed to MSDN? You end up throwing out dozens of CD's a month (or a DVD or two a month now). And I've certainly created many times more coasters than the number of movies I've watched in my life.
:-). They spent a lot of time coming up with that policy. So I end up paying late fees on top of the not-so-cheap rental. I personally find returns horribly inconvenient. And the rental companies no doubt find them extra labour to process.
:-) There'd also be something symbolic in becoming one with a movie you really liked, and even one that sucked and deserves no better fate than being eaten :-)
First of all, didn't Divx require you to buy a special Divx player? That's a big difference, investing in a new technology that *only* supports limited use.
Second, regarding the waste factor: have you ever been to McDonald's? Or any fast food place? The amount of trash one gets is huge as compared to a single disc. (And the disc seems to start biodegrading anyway, the minute you open it
I'm not saying more waste is good, just that in perspective, this isn't a huge factor.
This needs to be compared to rentals, not purchase. I've spent more money on Blockbuster's annoying but smart (for them) return policy; midnight the next day. It lulls you into a sense that if you don't get around to it tonight, you can watch it tomorrow, and return it before midnight; tomorrow night comes, you watch the movie, and are too tired to return it (I always
The rental places could also have a better rate at movie availability. I would guess that they could predict the total number of rentals more easily than the daily rates. So they stock up, and you can be assurred the movie will be in. In fact, the day the movie is released, you stand a *greater* chance of being able to get it. That's when people most want it, too. That kind of works out well.
The main disadvantages I see are 1) storage space required in the store will be greater; 2) there will be less older run movies available, since they don't stick around. If this takes off, six months after release, it may be very hard to get a copy of a movie. And, as mentioned, there will be some waste, although that can be played off a bit against gas, pollution, and labour in handling returns.
I wonder if they could make them taste like chocoloate or nachos? $2 or $4 for a rental, that would be a nice tasty snack afterwards would be very cool, and avoid the waste problem, too (well, at least modify the waste problem to an organic one
-dale
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Late fees account for a decent percentage of Blockbusters profits currently, a search at Fortune.com may turn up the exact figure, I couldn't find it although I remember the article from late last year. Numbers are in the $Billions on return fees alone
However, the Shops themselves account for a much bigger slab of the operating costs. In surveys a majority of people who DONT hire movies cited the shops as OFF PUTTING because they felt intimidated by snotty staff sneering at their 'lame' movie choices. Ordering a disc through your TV opens up this VAST market to Blockbuster.
The only alternative would be to hire decent staff - which costs even more money. Blockbuster is about PROFITS not TURNOVER and would happily reduce its overall turnover to increase the profit margin.
Back of an envelope calculations would guess at each hire being anything from 20 to 200% more profitable from a business park unit than a shop - even if your sending them out within the hour on the back of a motorbike - these things are light - one courier could deliver a serious number of discs in a day.
Forward looking Blockbuster sees this - they can cope with losing the late fees. And the other posters suggestion of a 'green returnable deposit' is highly likely aswell.
The next day, Joe goes to his supermarket. There's a bank of vending machines by the entrance: $1 for a can of Coke, $1 for a can of Pepsi, and $0.99 for the "Harry Potter" movie he took his kids to see a few months earlier (and spent $21 in the process). "Hmm... for less than the cost of a Coke, I could be a hero tonight and bring home Harry Potter." They watch it that night, but the kids want to see it again, and again, and ultimately he's bought the $0.99 version five times before he gets around to buying the replayable version for $20. He's paid AOL-TW $25 for a DVD that only costs $20.
Multiply that extra $5 by the 30 million AOL subscribers (a person willing to pay AOL 12 times a year will have no problem buying Harry Potter six times) alone and AOL can spend $150 million on acquisitions or campaign contributions without having to scratch (let alone dent) its budget.
If it works, next year it will cost $2.50. I remember the day the gumballs inexplicably rocketed from a penny apiece to a dime apiece; the day I showed up at the drugstore with my penny collection.
Surely this is an obvious replacement for Windows product activation? Just sell XP on a CD which will survive long enough for you to install it once...
Yes i do feel guilty about throwing away AOL and other CDs. Something feels wrong about taking a perfectly new, unscratched CD that could last for decades if looked after and binning it because of course its contents (AOL) are useless.
Sadly, I think people will buy into it. Its main attraction is convinience, and we're so used to every convienince imaginable as consumers today. I think its a sad state of affairs if it does take off cos it proves we'd rather throw away brand new DVDs and add further to the huge amounts of waste that such conviences cause.
Not exactly environmentally friendly is it.
Here's the link:
http://www.flexplay.com/flexplayq&a.htm
Here's one Q/A:
==========
Q: How does the quality compare? Are any features missing in Flexplay discs compared to regular DVDs?
A Flexplay disc is a DVD. Video quality will be the same as from a regular DVD. Anything possible on a DVD will be possible on a Flexplay disc.
==========
Sounds like a pirate's dream. Now instead of having a record of all the DVDs he's rented that the cops can come back to later, he just forks over $5 cash a pop, takes the full DVD home to his PC, rips the 0s & 1s, and is selling untraceable bootlegs before the "consumer edition" is in Wal-Mart. Dead presidents don't talk.
Anyhow, interesting idea.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
How long will it be before someone produces a varnish like coating to apply to play-once DVDs so the surface does not deteriorate?
I read an article in the paper this week that pointed out that Warner Bros Studio is irritating many other studios with their pricing strategy. WB wants regular DVD's to become impulse items like magazines and priced accordingly. They are already pricing new titles at $15US and many at $10US. If WB keeps up this strategy, it'll be pretty hard to sell a one-view DVD for $2US when many full DVD's are only running $5-7US.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Studios race to choke DVD copying
It IS wasteful, not only do we have 20 CDs falling out of every computer mag we buy - we'll have a DVD to bin every time we 'hire' a movie.
It would make more sense to have a reusable media with this kind of application...
There is nothing wrong with it, as long as it is a choice among many. If however it becomes the ONLY choice, then it becomes a problem.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power - Benito Mussoli
With that in mind, I'm quite amazed they just haven't totally run with this business concept of selling things that cease to work after x number of tries in the name of software and digital content copyright. Other industries should take note; let's not just stop at music and movies. We could make GIF and JPG images non-viewable after 10 views or so (the porn industry could make a killing!) We could make DVD players which stop playing and explode/disintegrate after 100 movies (I think some of those are availabe now). We could make furniture that you could only sit on a few dozen times (the "ultra-leather" could just dissolve or something). How about about cars that cease to run after 30,000 miles, probably right when you are in the middle of your road trip to Fairbanks, AK. We could make *kids* that cease to function after 12-18 months, because hey, babies are cute and no one wants to deal with your little brats anyways when they turn two years of age.
Somehow, I fear the notion of "what's good for one industry is good for everyone else" is going to get taken to extremes. The software industry applies limited use technology (i.e. software evaluations, etc.) in a reasonably responsible manner (not all applications, but most). You evaluate the software for free, and if it doesn't suck, then you actually buy or license it; it doesnt cease to install on your machine after so many tries. Software is abstract code that continually faces revision; licensing it seems like a logical idea. A copy of The Matrix is not going to change 5 years from now; why would you want to pay for a subscription or limited use fee? The business model that worked so well with software is not going to work with couches, cars, kids, or even "non-variable" digital content such as movies and music. The only way businesses will understand this is the hard way, of course; view-once DVD technology is clearly no exception. . .
(AP) - Hollywood Exec's have filed a lawsuit against... All of Mankind.
Hollywood Executives today have filed a lawsuit and a motion to stop all
of Mankind from infringing on what they calling "long-term memory copyright infringment".
It seems that Hollywood fears that Mankind might actually retain copyrighted
material in long-term memory -- which Hollywood claims is a violation of the
digital copyright laws.
Tom Werner has been quoted recently as saying: "We've suspected for a long time
that most people retain what they see on television or in a movie for months, and we
believe that we are losing millions and maybe billions of dollars of revenue
because of this phenomenon. What we'd like to see is that all of Mankind simply
forget what they just saw within in a reasonable time frame, or atleast until
AFTER a show goes into syndication, and NOT steal copyrighted material by holding
it in memory."
The Holywood heavyweight and creator of Friends, a popular televion show which
airs on NBC, has been working closely with lobbyists to try and move a
bill into congress that would mandate all of Mankind to simply erase what
they watched on televsion or saw in a theatre within in a "reasonable time frame" before
they are in a 'copyright violation situation'.
Opponents of the law are having problems the language, mainly around the
terms "reasonable time frame". But insiders believe that eventually Hollywood
will be succesful in moving this law through congress and by doing so it will
require all of Mankind will to eventually forget anything that has been
copyrighted or trademarked. If Mankind does not do so in a "reasonable timeframe",
they (we) could stand to pay another "rental or transaction fee comparable to
the original fee."
The Artist Formally Known As Prince, has issued a
press release by saying, "The System is broken and now they need to find another way to
make more off the work of the actor, artist and musician. The artist is the
real loser in this situation. Now company's want to collect on copyrighted material
that you've remembered? Where and how does the artist get paid for this?
And what if two people want to swap memories? How do they handle that?
I think this will only force more artists to move towards a 'lifetime
memory subscription model', this way it will cut out the middle man and ensure that
the artist gets what he or she deserves."
...hey, its friday
That was a big objection from retailers -- they wanted the punters to come back for returns so they'd have to come inside the store again. And also one of the reasons consumers weren't impressed -- they sure as heck WERE going back, so what was the point?
Infuriate left and right
At first this seemed just like Divx, but if the restriction is on the 'Surfacing' of the DVD. Then what happens if I miss a part of the movie, and want to queue it back to see that part again? Does that count as a viewing? By replaying a portion of a movie, will I be prevented from seeing the entire thing again?
IF they make these "disposable" disks, it would be as bad as the millions upon millions of AOL freebies that occupy the nation's dumps. It may be convenient to not have to drive it back to the video store, but think about all that plastic.
Yippie! I'm buying a DVD writer! Now if only the writable media was as cheap as CD-R....
-ted
Not crying 'repeat story', just a mention that we first got wind of this back in 2000: Self-Destructing DVDs: Son of DIVX
It requires polycarbonate to make CDs and DVDs. Polycarbonate that's generally not recyclable or biodegradable. If the disc self-destructs, it's landfill fodder- which means they're going to be choking up the world with nigh worthless plastic discs, using precious resources (the plastic, the materials to make the disc, etc.). All of this to make that precious pay per view they've been seeking all these years realistic and to do away with rentals (Realize that the media companies view rental companies as the enemy (except Viacom- they own one of the largest rental companies out there...) because they don't control the situation themselves. Rather than fostering their own rental company as Viacom did, they'd do this instead...)
I guess they have to have that object less in, "greed destroys all..."
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
For this to be worthwhile for them they must have good copy protection. However, copy protection is an impossibility.
The goal of copy protection is to create something that copies perfectly to a display device but fails to copy to a recording device. Simply creating a recording device that more perfectly emulates the display device and the signal is copyable.
Copy protection screws things up. That is how macrovision works. They screw up the signal coming out of the vcr so that recording devices with certain circuits will not record a good picture, then they lobby congress to make it illegal to produce a vcr without those circuits. (We pay the congress to work for Macrovision, what kind of a scam is that?)
DVDs don't have copy protection. If you copy an encrypted DVD you still have all the data that was on the original. Region codes and encryption (encryption is maybe too strong a word for what they do) do nothing except for make you life difficult when you are trying to read the DVD. Region codes mean that in order to watch movies you purchased you may have to buy up to seven DVD players (or 1 code-free DVD player) although it is likely that most of your movies will be from your home region.
Coding Blog
I almost never rent movies when I return them. Usually returning them is a job performed when I'm making a trip elsewhere. Of the two closest video stores to my house, one has a drop box in the parking lot (you don't even have to get out of the car) and one has a slot in the front of the building (you don't even have to go in).
I think this combination of errands routine is pretty common, and cuts into the claims of fewer trips. Also, both stores are within walking distance from my house, meaning even special trips to/from can be done on foot. Probably also common in many urban areas.
if Flexplay discs constituted 10% of all rentals, the technology would save 50 million gallons of gasoline, eliminate 111,000 metric tons of carbon emissions, 700 tons of hydrocarbons, and 1,000 tons of nitrogen oxides every year.
Fortunately, the manufacture of the plastic disks will only require 400 million pounds of crude oil to be manufactured into disks, releasion only 700 tons of hydrocarbons, and just under a 1000 tons of Nitrogen Oxides each year.
It would also eliminate 35% of the rental company businesses and employees, thus boosting the countries economy.
What do you want to bet they haven't addressed all the issues this coating is goign to have, like coating the inside of your player's optics?
"Blockbuster want these more than life itself. They can finally forget about dealing with returns - and always have inventory as they don't have to play the averages game. Just order a stack of disks and send them out."
Actually, they don't want that- they have to "stock" it with the videos to begin with (Which is the same level of effort as restocking DVDs from the rental returns. Now VHS tapes on the other hand...). This would a bad PR thing for them- and they've other plans that would work out as well or better. Can't say anything more than that (covered by my NDA w/my employer)- if things pan out the way I'm hoping they will, you're about to see several changes in things as they're done.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Yes, that is a problem. But this destructo-disc idea isn't an answer to the problem- it brings on the same issues as the problem you mention and puts a bunch of junk in a landfill. This technology is more akin to somebody saying, "what if we did this," without pondering all the consequences of the process and doing it all the same. Now, you bring up a way of dealing with things that's rather interesting... Too bad they aren't doing this and can't get there from here- or can they? :-)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Luckily, google has this cache.
An interesting quote from that site:
"The environmental impact of Flexplay discs will be negligible. 100 million DVDs can fit into a cube just 10 meters (about 30 feet) on each side. Thus, the impact on local landfills will be minimal. "
lesse... 100 million discs is about one per US family. Say every family 'rents' an average of 30 of these things a year, that gives us a rectangle full of discs that's 5 stories high, 90 feet wide and 60 feet deep! What a fabulous idea! We take this medium that can last, if properly cared for, longer than the life expectency of the average person who uses it, and we build some kick-ass obsolesence into it... I hope they do this with music CDs and books, too. Maybe some kind of fading ink that gives you say, two weeks to read a book after you remove its airtight covering, then the words just dissolve away, and in the trash it goes! the_consumer loves our disposable society...
"If you're thinking what I'm thinking, you're right." -
Not sure yet if this is bad or good. Right now I am leaning on the bad side, but I can see some positives.
If they make the cheap (and they better be cheap) limited use discs avaliable in a timely manner compared to the full copies, it would be a nice way to preview media intended for long term ownership. I don't mind paying $20 for a DVD containing worthy content, if I can know its worth.
Problem with this is I fear a price hike on the non limited media as an incentive to keep people buying the limited ones. Long term this is the better outcome for them.
Entertainment media is not the whole story though.
What about other media? Software and data in general worries me more. Imagine your limted use OS installation media! !?! Or your class materials distributed for one time installation with per machine node locked license key!
So in general, my concern is that people will have less ability to purchase large quantities of data for long term use. Or that some types of data are only published for short term use. Right now they have little choice. Either actually put it on long term media or don't offer it. This tech changes that.
Blogging because I can...
would this be cheaper than RENTING a movie and watching it as much as you want (for ~3days)? Man, the only way this could succeed is if the disks were 4.00 each (as rentals are ~4.25 for new releases)
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
--Mike--
Just look at all that wasted whitespace in your post.
--
E_NOSIG
The real reason the MPAA are so excited about this format is that it will give them the ability to STOP circulation of some DVDs. This kind of read-once system means that the media corps can control public appetite for a movie. Disney wised up to this marketing technique years ago by intentionally shutting down the sale of several older titles to conveniently reissue them several years later. When they do so, people go out and buy them in droves, thinking "Ahh, I liked Snow White as a kid, and my kids haven't seen it yet! I'm so lucky they re-released it so I can buy it for the cost of a new release!".
If this system takes off, you can expect to lose the ability to rent a lot of older titles... at least temporarily. Then, periodically, titles that are cheap enough and popular enough will get reissued, and others that would cost too much for the benefit (i.e. movies where the amount of the sale that goes directly to the studio is lower) will never be seen again.
Also, if a new copy protection or region coding "enhancement" scheme becomes available that would be backward compatible with the majority of the DVD players out there, the studios can start issuing _all_ read-once DVDs with the new scheme. That way they can force the new technology on consumers much more quickly. And if the new scheme is cracked, they can incorporate a fix just as fast as they are able to change the master being used by manufacturing. Of course, those few who have older players that won't work with the new scheme will need to "upgrade", resulting in a new royalty to the studios.
If this sounds too nefarious to be possible, go find out more about the copy protection that these same studios are trying to incorporate into CDs, or find out about the "region coding enhancement" that is on some newer DVDs. Now imagine a world where these read-once DVDs are firmly entrenched in the market, and try to imagine the studios NOT using their advantage in the supply chain to force a newer, better protection scheme on consumers. Yeah, I thought so.
The studios have noticed that drug dealers don't sell kits to help you make your own drugs whenever you want. They sell drugs directly, and customers keep coming back. Which way do you think the dealers would make more money?
D
I think people will dislike this because they will realize that they are getting screwed, price-wise.
People don't have a problem renting something for $5. Or buying it for $25. But if they get the same product they would have rented (and returned), or purchased and kept, and then are forced to throw it away, I think they'll be dissatisfied.
They'll realize- "hey! this is the same disc i bought for $25. those things can be made cheaply enough for me to THROW IT AWAY, so why do DVDs cost $25? Especially since it probably costs MORE to make a dvd that expires than a regular one!"
And, yes, I know that the costs are not limited to the cost of the DVD pressing. But I still would feel really odd throwing away a DVD.
It seems like, if they just dropped their prices on all DVDs (and CDs for that matter) to the 9.99 range, they'd make just as much money as now, on more sales. The lower price would, I think, discourage piracy.
You could also, though this would be annoying, have the 9.99 dvds just have the movie, while the "deluxe edition" had all the extras. Some studios do this already, to an extent.
Of course, all these arguements have been made before, but the idea of a disposable media really pounds them home more, and might even strike a chord with the mainstream consumer.
The limited-play DVD format is a compelling alternative to video rental as it presents indisputable advantages to consumers, content providers, retail stores, distributors and disc manufacturers. For the consumer, a limited-play disc at the same price as a rental offers a quantum leap in convenience and flexibility of use.
In reading through this press release there is no actual mention of what these consumer benefits are. We have a patent on something new and we can make a lot of money doing it, therefore it must be good for consumers!
This is just freaking crazy!
Pooty tweet
Would it be a copyright violation to collect all the dead disks, Polish them (like a semiconductor plant planar tool) and re-coat them? You could sell recycled plastic.
The truth shall set you free!
I know for a fact that SpectraDisc is using a sort of a "freshness" limitation.. to where a disc is fully readable once you take it out of a sealed package, but after a specific amount of time it spoils so it is no longer readable. There are no intelligent actions going on, it just fades out. According to their press release, the amount of time can be controlled between minutes or as long as weeks before the disc is unreadable.
Personally, the first thing I thought of when I read the summary was buying some of them for cheaper than "standard" dvd's, then ripping them.
It'd be even more amusing if someone figured out the chemical composition of them, then figured out what to do to make them not fade away.
I can't comment on Flexplay's technology, since they don't even have a webpage up yet.
Perhaps you could keep the disc from becoming useless by coating it again with something that would keep the disc from oxidizing. Of course you'd have to make it very thin and make sure it didn't affect the optics... dunno if it would be possible.
:) I can see cans of spray lacquer being pulled from store shelves because they're "circumvention devices!"
But would it violate the DMCA?
-- "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin
Something feels wrong about taking a perfectly new, unscratched CD that could last for decades if looked after and binning it because of course its contents (AOL) are useless.
I don't know...it makes a pretty good support for a coffee cup, and in a pinch they can shim table or desk legs when the floor is uneven. Gee, maybe I should write a book...1001 uses for an AOL CD...I can just see the indignant "cease and desist" letters now...
You're using her as bait, Master!
If I bought a Divx disc at the store, at least there was some opportunity to permanently purchase the disc. In this situation, I buy a disc, and it becomes useless. If I happen to really like the movie, then I have to go and buy it again.
With the advent of Ebay I can't fathom why any of these companies are even bothering. I can go to Amazon and order a brand new DVD, or perhaps even pick up an early used edition at Ebay. If I don't like it, then I just put it out on ebay and offload it to somebody else.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Oh no, what a mother f*cking stupid idea. No i'm taking no prisoners on this one. The people who came up with this have too much time and no brian. They are stupid gimps. Probably footballer/jocks. Why? ok WHY!?? in the fu*king name of all that is HOLY? would these stupid gimps want to do this?!? I mean, for crist sake, the CSS HAS BEEN CRACKED YOU IDIOTS. No amount of painting with stupid paint will stop people copying your stupid bits of rip-off plastic onto their computers. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? This is going right to the top of the dumb ideas hall of fame, because i have no time for time wasters who manage to get millions in funding from stupid managers who have no _clue_ how stupid the product is.
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I'd pay cheap prices for a DVD that I can only rip once.
...is because I want to watch them again -- maybe 10 or 20 years from now. Obviously impossible with a time-bombed disk that by design degrades with age. No way in hell will I ever buy such DVDs.
If I want to watch a movie only during the next few weeks or months (before it self-destructs), I might as well go back to the bloody theatre, spend the same money, and have a better viewing experience.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
[Replying to my own comment so as to not have to reply to people individually]
While kiosks and everything sound nice, remember that we almost already have those. I can buy DVDs right now and a ton of places, at least in the U.S, and I am willing to guess most industrialized nations.
So your local kiosk, currently selling DVDs for anywhere from $10-$30 (at a 100% mark-up) is going to use *the exact same business plan*, but instead sell the same product for $4?
To use the example of a typical movie ($25 on DVD), that means that the kiosk is going to have to sell six times as many movies on the new format ($12 profit on the original vs. $2 profit on the new discs) to make the same amount of money.
I just do not see that happening.
One of the problems of releasing this new format is that DVDs were intorduced and priced with "home movie libraries" in mind. Studios realized they could make a lot more money on these movies pricing them were they are affordable ($10-$25) and getting people to buy them (instead of selling one copy to a rental place, even at high prices).
Economically, this will be a failure.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
> [...] long-term memory copyright infringment [...]
If you found the parent post interesting or funny and haven't seen Memento then it's time to visit local video store...
_________________________
Spelling and grammar mistakes left as an exercise for the reader.
No doubt rental stores won't like this, but I'm picturing more of a convenience store, impule buy kind of thing. There was a great article on MSNBC the other day about a growing feud between studios (MGM in particular) trying to drive down DVD prices to make them an impule buy, vs. Blockbuster & rental stores who want more of a video-style pricing (high initial price to encourage rentals). It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, and disposable discs could be a big part of that.
I think most DVD players have a dedicated MPEG decoding chip and maybe a 20 MHz general-purpose CPU for control. There simply isn't enough CPU power in there for loadable codecs.
Are you aware of the difference between signed and ratified? Please go look at the US Constitution. The executive branch has the power to sign treaties, only the Senate can ratify them. The treaty was explicity not ratified.
The problem is that the treaty is really just a way for the European countries to keep whining about pollution and the US and cry cry cry, while they cut down all their forests and avoid shutting down or fixing the old Soviet Bloc factories that are spewing toxins above and beyond the worst the US has ever done. The treaty was designed so that EU countries could get credits for taking those factories offline, but the US, Canada, etc. don't get credits for things like having already done so and keeping their forests intact.
Welcome to the real world. This isn't a Captain Planet cartoon, there are shades of grey.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Why is it that so many people are suckers for things like planned obsolescence and other methods of turning durrable goods into perrishable ones? When will there be enough examples to disuade the greedy. Reference DIVX and the US automobile industry vrs Honda, proffits up by 60% in this reccsion year over last year.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I don't like the environmental concerns either, but since broadband delivery methods are going to need to develop more it makes some sense.
Heck, for $10 a month, send me the top few releases and I will watch them as I have time. Saves some gas and hassle with the rental store.
Blogging because I can...
The thing is that these things - however limited in their use - will cause two things:
people buying more Pr0n online etc.. cuz they can just watch it and throw it away before they get caught with it by their friends, wives, whatever...
also pr0n discs will be the most overused ones... watched and watched until not a single frame can be seen on it any longer.
.
But you have to admit that the actual price difference for the manufacturer is practically nothing. $100 premium for DivX was marketting, not manufacturing economics.
The act of throwing these discs after they have become useless is like dumping a soda can in the lake. Personaly, I won't even think contributing to this act of destruction.
Receiving unsolicited AOL cds and now dvds in "tin cans" at my home makes me feel so bad already for our environment. What are these idiots thinking really? Is there any limit to human stupidity acting in the reason of benefits and ROI? Are these people who designed this stuff conscious that there children won't be able to walk in a land without garbage?
Are we going to get a new color of recycling bin specifically designed to recycle these dvds and aol's ones? Companies like AOL MacDonald's and maybe now Blockbuster should be all liable and fined for the pile of garbage their customers are dropping all over.
I'll go back and read Zodiac from Neil Stephenson...
PPA, the (eco) girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
This gives me all the more reason to want to break their copy protection and rip my own permanent copy.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
For $4.99 you get not only a DVD, but a tasty snack!
Cool! Set 'em up so they're not edible until they're watched. The heat from the laser will "cook" them, so when you're done watching, they're ready to munch.
You could even have different flavors in different sections. The movie could be Strawberry, but the special features would be something completely different. Then you just look at the bottom of the disc when you eject it, decide which section you want to eat based on the color, and break it apart like a cookie.
Of course, then you'll have college students eating them raw (ala Top Ramon) just for the sake of being unique, but what the hell...
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
I've got movies on demand. 24 hours a day.
Cost a few bucks, can rewind with my cable remote and don't even have to get up.
HBO has shows and movies [Sopranos, Band of Brothers etc] for a flat monthly rate, and there is a channel [#1] that I can 'play' and rewind movies just like HBO OnDemand.
Pretty cool huh? Digital Audio out [Fiber] on the cable box lets me enjoys DTS [when available] and the picture is pretty awsome.
The only thing: Can't zoom. Doesn't play MP3's like my DVD player... but it has USB and FireWire ports.
What will those be used for? Videoconference anyone?
Get your Unix fortune now!