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The Widening Tech-Savvy Gap
When things malfunction, the vast majority of Americans try to fix it themselves. (And no wonder. Tech Support is synonymous with anxiety and indifference). Almost half -- 47 percent -- say the first thing they do when a piece of equipment fails is try to repair it. Another 21 percent have a friend or family member look at it. Only nine percent take a broken purchase back to the place where they bought it. Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
The survey of nearly 3000 adults, commissioned by American Demographics magazine and published in its March issue, reveals other intriguing details. Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features, there are differences by region. Northeasterners are the most confused, Midwesterners the most computer-confident. When attempting to learn their way around a new purchase, 89 percent consult instruction manuals, poor saps.
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same. Young adults are also more proficient, says the survey, when it comes to using cell phones, stereos, remote controls, microwaves and computers. Separated, divorced and widowed Americans are more involved with high-tech than other singles and married people. This may be because they have more time, or are perhaps more focused on using tech to connect with other people.
Television, meanwhile, continues its long reign as Americans' most beloved and comprehensible technology. In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use. More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Asian-Americans use the Net more than any other group. On any given day, says American Demographics, more than half of all English-speaking Asians (53 percent) go online, compared to a third of all English-speaking whites (33 percent) and a sixth of all English-speaking blacks (17 per cent). On the other hand, 65 percent of African-Americans say they know and understand the features of their mobile phones, compared with only 42 percent of whites and 56 percent of Hispanics. One might have predicted, though, that women are more open to reading directions than men.
The survey is significant for several reasons. It shows that responses to tech are different among different age, geographic and ethnic groups. It confirms the idea that tech industries are peopled by smart geeks still too far removed from the ordinary concerns of average Americans. It reminds us that Tech Support is a scandal. It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work, while most people struggle to use them. New tech tools from computers to cell phones may seem ubiquitous, but in fact, they are not. Tech triggers different responses in different people, depending on where they live, how old they are, and even their race and ethnic origins.
I thought the gap was narrowing thanks to the Dummies series.
"Why, for example, would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?"
We drink less coffee and more beer. It allows for paitence
http://www.kubuntu.org/
You have just received the Amish Virus!
Since we do not have electricity or computers,
you are on the HONOR SYSTEM!
Please delete ALL of your files....
Thank Thee.
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For pointing out the obvious...
There is nothing new here, this has happend sence the dawn of time. The young have always been the ones to adapt, use, and have fun with the new stuff the quickest. This is just a rehash of an old theme. This is life and nature at work, this is not technology.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
All the various and heinous anti-circumvention / IP protection laws also probably have something to do with it.
If you can't tinker with something, how on earth are you supposed to figure out how it works. Most tech companies and especially their lawyers and bean counters would prefer if we just clicked and drooled.
Again, this is not a problem limited to the USA. don't forget that /. has an international readership. Why frame it as an American issue? OK, that's what the stats that formed the foundation of the article pointed to, but surely the problem as a notion can be extended without too much trouble.
Now that there aren't so many posts yet...
Could we try, at least this time, to have a discussion about the post / story for a change, instead of yet another Jonkatz bashing fest? If you don't like Jon, ignore the storie and change your settings accordingly. Not that I'm a great fan of JK, but I'm getting sick and tired of hearing the same old anti-Jon BS every time he's posting something
Yes, I know I'll loose karma over this
thank you
mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
-- Jason
Personally, I'd like a definition of what tech-savvy means. Does it mean knowing how to cope with poorly designed electronic systems?
I work in the IT industry, and I'm responsible for designing all kinds of information flow and so on, and I keep find that the real problem in most systems is actually a lack of knowledge on the part of designers on how to really build good systems.
Personally, when it comes to design tech, I think a lot of "not-so-savvy" users probably know a lot more about how design should be than most of the designers.
</rant>The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
um, tobacco?
Just raise the taxes on crack.
I mean if everyones tech savvy what will we do then? We'd be worthless.
I hope the user interface dumbs down so much that all they have to do is talk to their machines and their machines handle everything. This way when the machine breaks they wont know what the hell to do, and we will be hired in at insanely high prices to fix r eally easy problems.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Katz asks 'why would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?', but in fact, since this is based on an opinion poll in which the respondents evaluated their own expertise, the real question would be 'why do midwesterners think they grasp technology so much better than northeasterners do?'
I think a precedent of such a gap between the population and practitioners of a learned art has already been set.
If you think for minute, the medical establishment has been an example of this that has existed for over a century now.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I don't know how many times I've heard "Just show me what I need to know; I don't want to learn all that other stuff" from any number of technophobes.
science is a religion
You have to be Elitest, thats just reality.
Sure you can teach people, but do it for a price, dont give them all your knowledge for free.
In case you didnt forget, we live in a world of capitalism, you have to pay your bills, if you teach everyone everything you know, you decrease the value of what you know x10 for each person who knows what you know.
So yes we should teach them the basic ways to operate a computer, make the computer as easy as possible, but hide the more esoteric stuff that we the technicians, programmers, sysadmins, and other tech savvy folks make a living on.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Despite the proliferation of tech toys and work devices in people's lives, the gap between the tech-savvy and the techno-confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries.
Arrogant? You assume that technology == better quality of life. Not true. Did the possibility ever enter your head that maybe some (most?) people don't want anything to do with technology? A significant portion of the population chooses not to embrace cell phones, computers, pdas, etc. because of the hassle. I envy those that don't have to worry about their boss ringing the cell phone at 3am on a saturday to fix some firewall. Sometimes i wish i could pile all of my "tech miracles" into a big pile and set them afire. And move off to a ranch in montana.
Reminds me of the Digital Divide issue. Despite the current administration's voodoo statictics, it's getting worse, video streaming Commodore 64s from Afghanistan notwithstanding.
Despite the proliferation of tech toys and work devices in people's lives, the gap between the tech-savvy and the techno- confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries. It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Come on, Jon.
Don't blame us for the fact that the tech sector moves so quickly. Sure, some of us are elitist, but the occasional RTFM isn't the source of all this trouble.
Everyone knows that if the automobile industry evolved at the same pace as computers have, we could drive from New York to California for like fifty cents and get there in an hour or something (this was some quote from some intangible study from some book I've read, I don't remember exactly).
So please, before you blame the kernel hackers and the hardware guys and the OO coders for the fact that the typical American has to use AOL to navigate the Internet or else they'd be totally freakin' screwed because there's a huge tech info gap between the 'in the know' and the 'not in the konw' folks, reconsider. It's hard for ALL OF US to keep up with how quickly things are changing these days, not just the average middle class American.
monolithic - adj. Characterized by massiveness and rigidity and total uniformity; Linux - n. An implementation of the Unix kernel originally written from scratch with no proprietary code
I used to drive combine during the summer while I was in high school (i'm still convinced I'm the only person to listen to the Chemical Brothers and Orbital while driving a tractor), and the one thing I learned from that experience is that Duct tape and bailing wire will fix anything. When its 50 miles to the repair man, you learn to fix things yourself with what you have. That sort of problem solving and self sufficiency helps alot in the computer world, where the perfect solution may exist, but costs you 20 grand, but a good enough solution can be done extremely cheap.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Only 80%!? Come on, that's a ludicrous statistic; who is going to answer that they understand how to work a Computer 'better' than a trivially simple device like a TV. I know what _every_ button on my TV remote does, but I'm still suspicious about those "Scroll Lock", "Break", and "SysRq" keys on my PC keyboard.
Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart.
Why is buying a piece of crap product that broke the first time and came with no warranty/tech support smart?
Last year I bought a ViewSonic monitor, and it failed after 2 months. I phoned their tech support, and they shipped me a new one. If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to run out and buy a new one. Shoddy Tech support (from the major manufacturers) is a Dilbert-esque cliché.
... you mean 90% of people aren't actually the above average drivers they think they are?!
Katz asks why the tech industry has continued to trundle along (not entirely prosper, but mostly so) when we 'abuse' our users. Tell me, would he ask the same uestion about a gap between the 'medically savvy' and the 'medically confused'? Modern computer systems (and by systems I mean -everything, hardware and software) are very nearly as complex as biological organisms (at least as we currently understand them. The more we learn about biology, the more there seems to be, but that's another topic). Is it -really- hard to figure out why most folks aren't computer experts?
Let me spell it out then: The problem is too complex for most people to bother spending the required amount of time to learn its answer. Just like medicine, some of the more esoteric bits of automobiles, and other inherently complex topics.
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
It reminds us that Tech Support is a scandal. It reinforces the notion of tech elites who alone understand how the new tools of the Info Age really work
There's nothing wrong with the concept of tech support. Your average user doesn't NEED to know everything about computing technology, and a place to go to get their answers is a Good Thing. there will lways be tech elites that truly understand how the tools function, there will be a larger number who are power users, there will be an even larger portion that are average users and so forth.
Additionally, tech support people are not usually the ones that fully understand technology. They are trained to answer common questions and to know who to turn to when they need more complicated questions answered.
Nice job Katz, I try not to flame you needlessly, but this particular piece of tripe reads like a fifth grade essay, what grade did your kid get?
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
That way we will all be as valueable as an astronaught, instead of be as valueable as an office clerk.
The more esoteric that our jobs are, the more difficult it will be for common joe blow to steal our jobs, the more money we will make.
As much as I'd like everyone in the world to be computer savvy, in a capitalist world,
people get paid for their knowledge, their skill, and their ability to apply it.
By giving the common man your knowledge, all they have to do is have skill and apply it, this means you'll be without a job when you are fired and replaced by joe blow.
Your salary will be 30k a year because YOU taught everyone how to do what you do making your job as valueable and making you as important as an office clerk or mc donalds burger flipper.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I've got more disposable income now than I ever had before...but I've PURCHASED all of the consumer techno-gadgets to be had. I last felt that 'smell of the hunt' feeling when I bought a RUG Shampooer fer chrissakes.
It puts me in a serious funk to walk into Circuit City/Best Buy/Soundtrack and realise that there ARE NO consumer electronics left for me to purchase. My pda's perking along fine, as is my cellphone, Digital Camera, computer, Xbox, home theatre, TV, blender, coffee maker, LAN, lawnmower, car lift, electric toothbrush...you get the point.
At the same time that I've got everything I want, I've got a ton of functionality I don't use. I've got an X10 touchpanel that's programmable, interrupt driven, and can literally control everything in my house. It's technically not beyond my abilities to program it. Why does it only turn on and off the Stereo tuner and control it's volume? Because I can't be _bothered_ to figure it out.
That may be the more telling issure here: Are these people stupid, or is it just not a high enough priority to learn? (OR do us midwesterners just have more dark cold winter to futz with stuff?)
Hey, my phone's a two way pager...it can surf the net, it's got an IR port to connect my pda to the internet. How many people CARE that it does more than 'look cool' and doesn't drop calls?
We've gotten to the point where more features can be crammed into a device than can be used. It it bad that I don't use EVERY feature?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Adults under 35 are, not surprisingly, more skilled at confronting tech problems. For example, 77 per cent of those surveyed age 18 to 34 are confident in their ability to operate their VCR, while 54 per cent of adults older than 35 said the same. Young adults are also more proficient, says the survey, when it comes to using cell phones, stereos, remote controls, microwaves and computers.
;-)
Wouldn't this suggest that the gap is narrowing?
The younger generation is adapting to the new technologies faster, meaning the gap is narrowing. Once the baby-boomers start to fad away, there will be a more tech-saavy people around.
Another point. What are we doing to help out?
Linux is always being criticized as not being user friendly. "User Friendly" is the way to narrow that gap. Make it so your grandmother can use it. I'm not criticizing linux's user friendliness, but saying its prudent to this conversation.
One last note. Don't you know that 86% of all statistics are made up?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
it is expanding because of the dummies series.
Actually it is expanding due to the Dummies series, and due to things like educational feel good agendas. Shear speculation, but most likely in the midwest the basics of education, especially in rural areas, are still being used, while in the cities all of the latest theories are being used, changing from year to year. or you have a system where the city with the most money per student has the worst scores in the State (*cough*Boston*cough*)
Money is not the answer, but methodology is.
As far as throwing money at the problem, check this out.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
To me, this article was just some veiled racial comments and SOP (Standard Operating Poo-poo) for Katz.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Yeah fix the problem and you wont be a geek anymore.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The tobacco industry has given me exactly what I want, packages of cigarettes. If they neglected to do that, I, and many others, would be very pissed off.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Altough industry is a bit strong, most kingdoms, religions, etc... seem to fit in your definition.
:-)
The only way that anyone from a vending machine cleaner to a managing director stays current is through re-training. Re-training doesn't always mean college or university, often people don't pop to their local library and pick up a 'Windows for Dummies' or even learn the basics of what a computer actually is. I'm not saying that there are not mitigating factors and I'm not saying that there isn't an excuse. But the fact is from the industrial revolution to today people have had to shift skill sets and move with the market.
It's the nature of things, one door closes and another opens. My 83 year old grandmother has learnt how to email and use the net so its possible up to a quite considerable age. Who is the oldest computer/internet/slashdot user?
e4 e5
Asking someone how good they are at stuff is not an accurate way of judging how good they really are. What were the actual questions?
Q1. Do you consider yourself computer savvy?
Q2. Do you know how to make a bookmark in MS Word?
Q3. Given a bunch of components could you put together your own computer and install an OS on it?
These 3 questions measure different things. The guy in Nebraska might have been using MS Word for 5 years and knows it inside out, so considers himself computer savvy, but yet couldn't for the life of him figure out how to do anything else. Do we consider that person knowledgeable?
They did a study a few years ago and determined that people who were truly incompetent didn't know they were incompetent. Also, people who really were competent tended to underestimate themselves.
Call me cynical or a skeptic, but this kind of broad survey is difficult for me to swallow. Were the questions of the "How would you rate yourself" kind, or the "What's an inode" kind. Most surveys I've seen are of the former sort and those are crap, statistically significant number of participants or not.
Can't think of a group of people who care less about their customers ?
Here are two Jon
Tobacco and Gun companies, lob in the Defence industry, lawyers etc etc etc.
Maybe the problem is that actually its a fault of education, in the same country that has schools that don't think evolution is an idea you are suprised that technology isn't well taught. Schools censor technology because they are afraid of it, so people don't learn how to use is.
This isn't the result of big corps ignoring people, its a result of an industry that is 30 years old and has exploded in the last 10. How many people knew (or even know) how electric lights work when they came out ? Sure there is a gap between those who know and those who don't, there is that gap in terms of EVERYTHING, and most of the time it comes down to application and education.
And on the first point in the title, mobile phone usage varies across Europe, Finland leading the way. The vast generalisations from Jon apply yet again only to the US.
Tech Corps give users what they want, even if they don't understand it, that is what people want.... always remember...
They don't understand the software, they don't understand the hardware, but they can _see_ the flashing lights.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Then there are the 3 percent of Americans who say that when something breaks, they simply buy a new something. This last group may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
...and even their race and ethnic origins.') is just plain ignorance.
um no. those people tend to know the least amount about technology. a seasoned person would be able to work their way around the tech support lines and cluessless middlemen to get a fix. Smart people fix things they dont go out and contribute to the throw away society that we have developed.
The survey is significant for several reasons
god i hate when ppl try and come to conclusions abotu society from a survey or using statistics. it is impossible to do a fair survey unless you have a seperate objective view. this is why studies will never be able to predict the future and will never be able to even analyze current trends properly. yes i do believe that they are a good base for more research, but to draw conclusions from it and base an argument on purely statistical evidence and a few misplaced ideals of society ('Tech Support is synonymous with anxiety and indifference', Tech triggers different responses in different people...
sortof abotu the last point, i am so fucking tired of people doing surveys on ethnicity. this must be an american thing because up in canada i have never had to fill out my ethnicity on anything. why? because IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. im a white male mostly german in decent but i cannot stand when people try and match peoples behaviour to where their parents or their parents's parents came from. they american citizens, and once your government starts treating them as such instead of as an ethnic group maybe other cultures will start to like you.
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You bring up a good point. Even if welding, fixing cars, etc, is quite different than troubleshooting hardware, the mentality is still there of "do/fix it yourself".
I think when people are in more urban areas, with everything close together, it is much easier for most people to let someone else handle it. However, when you are farther removed from these urban areas that have a "repair shop" for everything, you become more dependant upon yourself. This can then lead to different areas (first mechanic, then PC technician) out of principle, mentality, convienance and the like.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
"Why, for example, would midwesterners grasp technology so much better than northeasterners?"
It doesn't even seem to say that. It says that midwesterners are more CONFIDENT in their abilities with technologies. Their confidence may be totally unfounded.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
"It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived."
This assertion is unfounded. There are other industries where there are widespread examples of similar attitudes. "You need a new frob... No, trust me. You don't want to understand, but it won't work without it." However, there are many honest mechanics and there are many honest tech service engineers. A better example of another industry which exploits and abuses its customers is the entertainment industry. While there are some examples of inexcusable behavior in the tech business, the RIAA and MPAA want to strip people everywhere of their rights to use material. In the US, this right is presently guaranteed by law. There exist other countries where this right is not presently obstructed. These member companies want to repeal or otherwise invalidate the US law and impose or strengthen obstructions of this right in other countries. It is a monumental mistake to categorically dismiss an example of more prominent and funcdamental abuse which appears weekly or even daily on Slashdot.
Yeah...I'm pretty suprised that 20% of the population knows how to operate a computer better than a TV.
"Yeah, I've got a (insert favorite HW+SW flavor here) in the den that I use all the time. There's something in my living room that my mom gave me for my birthday last year - it looks kind of like a computer, but the input device is too limited. I've figured out how to turn it on, but for two months I just couldn't figure out how to get anything but this black and white static. A friend came over and hooked up something he called an "antenna" but it was way bigger than the one on my cell phone. He just sat down and was getting all sorts of different stuff by pressing the buttons. Once he was gone, I tried it, but the sound was always too loud and there was no knob to turn it down. Not that it mattered 'cause I never figured out how to make all the different shows come up. I guess you have to be an expert user to get anything other than this PBS that seems to be on. I've given up and I just download the DiVX shows I like over my DSL line and burn 'em to disc so I can watch 'em whenever I want."
I'm guessing that the poll has a 20% margin of error, and it was all the way to the stops on that question.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
On a side note, this is the first story from Katz that I actually believe he has some insight into. The technically ignorant.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
That was question 2.
Is this some new software that runs on Linux or BSD?
Since it's not - I have no idea how one might use this program.
Guess I'm not tech savvy. So, that makes me, someone who works in IT, not Tech Savvy.
[insert comment about Jon and squirrels here]
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
About a month ago I bought a $700 (CDN) HP printer/copier/fax/whatever. It took me HOURS to get this pile working. After fighting with it for a while, I checked their support site and found a patch to supposedly fix a problem with the OS I was using. Good I thought, this ought to do it. Several more hours later, I finally got it to work. To add insult to injury, when I broke down and phoned their support line (which was not prominently advertised in the package anywhere), they seemed to want to charge me to help me install a brand new product that obviously wouldn't work due to the terrible software shipped with it.
A couple weeks later, I had the pleasure of helping a friend try and install an HP external CD writer. Once again hours past and everything in both of our technical arsenals was brought out, but in this case it never did function properly.
In my experience, it is not uncommon for specific manufacturers to be notoriously bad in similar ways. Some you know are going to be a joy to install, and others you get a bad feeling about just looking at on the shelf.
My point is, if technical computer professionals can't get this crap to work, what is the general public's experience like. It must be an unimaginable nightmare. No wonder the gap is widening.
The depth of knowledge needed for a TV:
1) Program sucks, hit Channel +/-
2) Ads louder than program, hit mute
3) Cool video, hit volume +
4) Sports commentary (esp. Monday nights), hit volume -
5) Drool puddle too large, hit OFF
I forget...are we at war with Eurasia or East Asia?
Take a load of not so bright people ask them to evaluate themselves
Take a load of brigh people ask them to evaluate themselves.
The average rating for the not so bright will be from above average to excellent
The average rating for the bright people will be from average to above average
Put them together in a room to talk about the ratings...
Not so bright group don't change their opinions, bright group now average Excellent.
A common study on perception on reality that most psyhc students have looked at.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Jon, sanity check here. Electric lights aren't high-tech, they're near a century old now. Pick a few dozen of your friends and ask them how lights work. I'll bet that at least half of them give an answer along the lines of "You flip a switch and the magic electricity flows and the bulb lights.". IOW they know how to work a light but not anything about how and why it actually lights up. They know the electric grid and generating plants work, but for all they know about how and why they work the whole process of getting electricity to a light bulb and making it glow might as well be a magic spell. It might not be obvious on the surface, since probably you understand it, but if you go probing you'll find that most people don't.
Now, if after a century we have a large percentage of people who don't understand the stuff that makes something as simple and ubiquitous as a light bulb work, why should we expect any significant percentage to understand what's behind something as complex and relatively new as a computer? That's what seperates the tech-savvy from the rest: we're the relatively small percentage who're actually interested enough to learn the whys and wherefores and whats behind using the technology. We know how the wires are connected behind the walls, how generating plants and electric grids work and what the switch actually does to the electrons, not just that flipping the switch makes the magic bulb glow. We've actually ferreted out why things work, not just how to make them work.
That's also why the gap won't go away: you can't teach curiousity. You can encourage those that have it to use it, but if they don't have it you can't force-feed it to them. Trying just annoys them, and they start asking why they need to know all this technical stuff just to use X.
This is also, IMHO, why the average savvy person's choice of reading is so different from the mainstream: we like things that make us think, the mainstream doesn't.
Modern cars are run by microprocessors.
How many of us can reprogram them? Not many.
How about your toaster - in the old days you could take them apart and fix them. Now they have fuzzy software.
Can you fix your Furby?
How about your Aibo?
Even our furnace controls are automated - but most of us can't fix those.
But the most important question is - why would we want to?
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Stats don't always say what you think they are reporting. Especially when done in the form of a survey.
For a good breakdown of how people understand their own skill level take a look at this journal article. It does a good job of graphing people's self assessments against their actual performances.
The point is that just because a population is not confident about their skills as a computer user, does not mean that they are lacking those skills. Conversely, it is the confidant ones who lack the knowledge to be able to rate their own performance.
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
If the people Katz seems to be trying to advocate for are really so upset that they don't understand tech, why don't they get off their butts and start figuring it out? I bet it's because they don't want to. If years go by and some people get left behind, so be it. How is that our fault?
I like to call that gap JOB SECURITY.
Now, please leave it alone.
This seems to me to be a modern trend in business. Businesses in all sectors have discovered that you don't have to be good or provide a good product or service, you just have to be good enough. In fact it seems that businesses can maximize profits by being subpar. Consumers will often buy a cheap product that does 90% of what they want rather than an expensive product that does 100%.
This seems to be especially true with customer service. Providing the level of customer service to help the average user (oh, I have to plug it in?) and not providing the level of service desired by the "tech savvy" saves a lot of money for these companies.
It comes down to cheap, fast, good, chose any two. The population typcially goes for cheap and fast, and not good.
The Economics of Website Security
In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use.
Well, it has been up until now. In a few years, we may screw that up with all the HDTV crap.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
They are almost exclusively made by Microsoft.
It's true that the overwhelming majority of Americans prefer to fix their computers than to buy new. If I made computers I would empower users to do just that. But I'm don't and Microsoft does...
When my friends have computer problems I'm powerless to help them. How do I get rid of lurking programs that pop up advertisements? How do fix there computer if something screwed up their registry? Sometimes I am able to find help online but most of the time I'm not.
Microsoft software is fragile, undocumented, unpredictable and unfixable. It's not just end users who are frustrated using Microsoft products; techincal people get frustrated and angry too.
As a Junior computer science major, I know now more than ever that I don't know how to use all of the features of my computer. I guess that puts me in the non--tech-savvy half of the population.
--Ben
I can definitely relate (as can most of the people reading this, otherwise they probably wouldn't even be on slashdot) to the feeling that there is almost a class separation between those in the know, and the Star Bellied Sneeches. The real question is, is it just a feeling, or is it really happening?
You could compare the technology gap between yourself and your non-tech savvy friends or parents to the same gap that probably existed when your parents were your age figuring out how to use the radio. But is it the same? Probably not. Computers are FAR more complex oranges than TV apples, and when there is so much knowledge to be gained, there is so much of an opening for a knowledge gap.
As someone else pointed out, this same gap exists between most people and doctors or lawyers, etc... The obvious difference is, you don't hire a doctor to come to your house and show you how to operate on yourself. There is very limited action needed by an end recipient of a doctor's or lawyer's care, where as with a PC you are simply shipped out the door of the computer store with a confusing manual and your 10 year old kid who will probably be hacking into NASA before you figure out how to check your email.
But then, even if the computer companies packed manuals 10 times bigger (like they did for DOS) than they need to, very few people read it, and those who read existing manuals are usually disappointed. Having written several manuals myself, I can state from experience that a user will even call up and complain that there is no help for the subject, and when you calmly walk them through the available help system that clearly defines the process set in place, you can leave that user with the comforted knowledge that they won't read the manual next time either.
Hence the acronym wars that start: RTFM, FAQ FAQ which of course used to be a list of answers to "Frequently Asked Questions" and now has turned into more of a required document listing something more like: "Questions we think will be asked frequently"
So what can we do??
Keep all information proprietary and share nothing creating an atmosphere of mystique and intrigue and separating even further the technologically skilled from the technologically billed?
This worked for a while, as the "Three Geeks in a Garage" companies skyrocketed to fame and fortune, but by now the big wigs have caught on. They've known how to keep geeks under their thumb doing their homework for centuries, and if we keep away all the information all it does is lock you even more securely in the niche carved for you in today's businesses.
I say do whatever you can. Educate those who you help, and help those who want to be educated. Make customer service a priority, not an afterthought.
Someday the phrase: "I hate computers" might just be a thing of the past...
The computer is the most flexible and powerful tool man has yet invented. The TV, as Mr. Katz points out, is easy to use. A station boradcasts a signal, you receive it on your TV, and the picture shows up. What's there to understand about it? You turn a dial (push a button), the channel changes. You turn another and the volume changes.
Any device with a very limited scope of work is also easily understood. Toaster, microwave, VCR (minus programming of course), car, stereo, camera...
Compare this to the computer, which is doing work not even dreamed up just 20 years ago, and doing dozens or even hundreds of different tasks, all with the same piece of equipment.
If we asked people instead if they knew how the electron gun in the TV operated, how the TV camera converted images into TV waves, how these are beamed to space and back, converted again and thrown on a wire to your house...or for that matter, how the cable company can make sure that you have HBO and your neighbor doesn't...would people still say they understood their TV?
If we were to break the computer back into its functions, we would need dozens of devices hanging around our house. Starting with a typewriter. But most people threw those away, didn't they, because the computer, oft misunderstood, is still far more useful than a simple typewriter, and obviously people know it.
So, it seems to me computers are held to a higher standard of "understanding" than do other devices.
I'm a midwesterner, I consider myself above-average tech-savvy (I have 3 computers running Linux that I use every day), I'm male, and I READ MANUALS. Yes, you read that right. When I was in the sixth grade, I got Sim City 2000 as a gift, I played for hours, and couldn't figure out how to make a city work, until I read the manual. When I understood the basics of the game, it was a lot more fun. Ever since, I read the manual for anything I buy more complex than my television. Why do I do this? Simple. The manual covers the basics of operation. By reading it, I can learn in fifteen minutes what might take me two hours to discover by trial and error. I can use the other hour and 45 minutes to figure out more advanced features and applications. Don't bash those of us who choose to read manuals. Our goal is the same--to understand our technology--we just take a different route.
The midwesterners grow up surrounded by tractors, combines, etc. They learn young how to fix that. And, hey, if they can fix a combine, how tough can a little bitty pc be?
Best Slashdot Co
Check out this song: "Every OS Sucks" by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie
It's probably more insightful than whatever drivel Katz is spewing today.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Certainly the preceeding sentence was a bit of a no-brainer (the real mystery is who the 20% are who DON'T understand better how to operate a TV). But looking a little deeper, there may be something we could take from the ol' tube.
TVs have gotten more complex without getting more difficult to operate at a basic level. Newer TVs have a lot more than 5 options. It's just that you can get by fine without ever touching most of them. (adjusting the tone, balance, antenna type, programming which channels to skip, turning the internal speakers on or off, selecting which type of closed captioning to use, etc.)
But the basic operation of TVs used to be more complex--the fine tuning dial, switching manually from VHF to UHF, horizontal hold (getting that baby set right was sure a pain on my fam's old TV), manual color adjustment, having to pick your butt up off the couch or exploit the labor of your chilluns to change the channel, etc. (though I suppose you could argue that the remote control makes it more of a mental exercise).
Perhaps computers ought to have the equivalent of automatic fine tuning ("plug-and-play" i/o "plug-and-pray"), horizontal hold without having to fiddle with the dial (no crashes without having to remember not to click the mouse or yawn too loud during a file download or whatever), ...can't think of a TV anology for this one, but I have to mention it (apt-get i/o downloading a service pack and hoping it installs and leaves your computer bootable) etc.
Convert RSS to HTML - integrate webfeeds into your website
One of my favorite examples of a poor grasp of technology was observed when I was in a cell phone store. The sales guy was setting up an account for me when this lady walks in. She told the guy her phone wasn't working, and she thought it was because she had left it on the dashboard in the sun (not a totally unreasonable idea). The guy looks at the phone and pushes the power button. When the phone comes on, the lady is quite surprised and asks how he did it. He then explains to her all about the power button, and how it works. She was surprised and hadn't realized that you could turn the phone on and off. Apparently, she had let the battery fully discharge and then when she plugged it in and charged it up, it didn't turn on automatically and she didn't know what to do.
It's funny how people's brains seem to turn off when they get near something high-tech, or really even something unfamiliar (e.g. people are constantly confused as to where they parked at ski resorts, yet they have no problems finding their parking spot at the mall/stadium/wherever).
I'm impressed. I spend a couple hours each workday and a few weeks a year keeping up on 80x86 architecture developments and PCI and AGP bus features. Yet nearly half of the general public already knows this stuff inside out!
For the humor-impaired, what I wrote above was mainly to illustrate how "tech-savvy" is drastically different depending on who you talk to. For most folks I suspect that it means that they know to click "Start" on the windows menubar to "shut down".
One area of technology where really good repair manuals exist is automobiles. Any standard repair on a standard car is documented right down to the exact foot pounds to apply to the wrench. But do the mechanics who love cars work from the manuals? Mostly, no.
It has not much to do with loving or hating a technology; it's about cognitive mode. Most of us do reasonably well learning by seeing; only a minority handle manuals well. The current generation of computers - despite the GUIs - favor those who do well with manuals. Much of the strength of Linux is in the succinct quality of the INSTALL and README docs in most program tars. RTFM is the mantra of a technological niche built by-and-for those who do well by manuals.
But that particular sort of verbal (supplemented by diagrams) intelligence isn't the only smarts people have; it's not even the only sort of smarts that might serve a tech-lover well. For instance, do you want your high-tech battle system manned by nerds-with-manuals or by those with a good seat-of-the-pants feel for the system and quick reflexes? Some folks have both, but for the most part those good with manuals are in the ground crews, and the kid in the cockpit is smart about - and loves - tech in a different way.
___
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Should you blame the tech elites for this? No. Should you blame average Joe for this? No. Until such time as the user interface is as intuitive as talking to someone, or the tech change curve levels out and Joe can catch up, we need to just accept that there will be a gap between those who know about technology and those who know about other things. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve UI's, but it's not unnatural that this gap exists.
This only becomes a problem (if you consider it a problem) when the elites stick it to everybody else because they can. But tech people aren't the only ones who do this: look at lawyers and doctors. There is a similar knowledge gap in their fields; but there's no expectation that average Joe should be able to do his own dentistry, for example.
Read my keyboard review.
I can't help but notice how your argument to keep knowledge and skills out of the hands of lesser folk than yourself is along similar lines of thought in the days of slavery.
It went something like: Don't let them learn to read or write and they will have to stay subserviant to us forever [insert manical laughter]
If you want to be exhaulted for your knowledge, then you should teach those who come to you instead of kicking them away - you'll be revered as a very learned teacher instead of a self-centered programmer who needs to be toppled off his pedestal.
Food for thought. Mmmmmm foood....
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
..The gap between the tech-savvy and the techno-confused keeps growing, a monumental failure of our arrogant and elitist tech industries. It's hard to recall any industry which has so abused, neglected and exploited its customers and survived.
Open Source software is often lambasted for being harder to use than its proprietary Windows equivalents. On the other hand, it simultaneously has far better user support available. Proprietary software, being a product-based industry, cares more about shipping out new products than it does supporting what already exists. This comes naturally with the business model. They don't make money on support so it's very tempting to slack off. Open Source based business, in contrast, is purely a service industry. By very nature it results in far closer communication between users and developers. Open Source breaks down arrogance and elitism quickly as the development community expands. A customer cannot be neglected if it is also a co-developer. As the use of OSS continues to spread and more consulting firms spring up to meet the service need, I believe we'll see a flourishing of consumer friendly technology both on and off the desktop PC.
For years I gave out old computers and my time to people I thought were smart enough to use it. This was cool as long as I was working and could afford small things for these friends such as a 20 dollar stick of ram or a modem.
Well bad economy, no money. These people continue to expect me to give it away for free despite knowing that I have a $4000 dollar a month mortgage and piling credit card debt. They come to my house, see my shiny fast computer and bitch and whine that theirs isn't as fast. Their shit constantly breaks and instead of learning something simple like put the CD in the drive, boot from it, reinstall OS they insist that I do it for them wasting 3 to 4 hours of my time for them.
I won't do it anymore. I just can't. I'm sorry Mr Katz if I sound like an elitist asshole but you try doing this for 6 years. Let's see your level of frustration after 6 years of trying to teach people the very basics of operating systems and watch in dismay as it goes in one ear and out the other. Operating systems are very simple.
1. create a partition
2. format partition
3. install OS
YET NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY THESE BRAIN DEAD UTTER WASTE OF HUMAN FLESH CANNOT LEARN THOSE 3 SIMPLE THINGS!
This last year has angered me very much at these people. The only problem that matters to them is their computer isn't as fast as mine. Doesn't matter that I gave it to them in the first place. They don't care that every month me and my wife are on the utter edge of chapter 11.
You call me an elitist for not wanting to help them anymore.
Mr. Katz, when the world stops breeding stupid people, I won't have a reason to carry this elitist attitude anymore.
Regards
--toqer
AWESOME! My CI is about 34 at the moment (between the wife and I. That's two Ve8ttes, a crate motor, a Saturn, a PT cruiser, a Weedwhacker, lawnmower and spare briggs'n'stratton. ah, 3_5_.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
"How did you learn to do all this?" is the most common question.
"Um, well, I know how to read and can use a mouse..."
I mean, c'mon, it's no more difficult than operating your VCR... er, bad example.
Tech know-nots have nobody to blame but their own ignornace and unwillingness to pickup a book and read. Here's a hint: BIG yellow book that says "Dummies" on it. Trust me, I own a couple myself.
Sapere Aude - Homer
> Answering the same question over and over to compensate for a bad manual or bad design
Who cares about intellectually stimulating? Sure, if I had the choice I would rather have a job I enjoy, and where I really make a difference. But I have to settle for meaningless Help Desk and Desktop Support jobs because that's all that's available. I would love it if a junior DB Admin or Web Dev position opened up, but I know they would look for one thing - experience. I have the know how (well, not bad for my age anyway), I have the degree (*snicker*), and I have to persistence and confidence, but I don't have the experience and that's all they want.
I'll gladly take that techie "burger flipping" job over being unemployed, thanks.
> Increasing the level of public technical knowledge frees up smart, hard-working people for more interesting and worthwhile jobs than clearing a phone queue
Where do you live that there is a deficit for this sort of position? Where do I sign up? If it wasn't for dumb users I, and I suspect many other people here, would be unemployed, regardless of how much we WANT a stimulating job.
You can't simply blame the users for not knowing how things work. You also have to blame the people creating the technology for not encouraging them to understand the stuff in the first place (M$ constantly trying to hide the file system from users is a good example of this). Any piece of equipment that could be tweaked, configured, or modified SHOULD come with books on how to do so.
Another excellent example that just sprang to mind is printers. When I purchased my first printer (A radio shack dmp130 dot matrix) it came with a book describing EXACTLY how to talk to it to use fonts, or address graphics. In other words, everything needed to write a printer driver (not really such a thing back then, but) came with the printer. You simply don't see these manuals and specs being shipped with modern day stuff, so even those who are curious about things don't have their curiosity encouraged by the manufacturers.
Not all the schools are at fault, and even those that are, aren't entirely at fault.
While I admit schools are certainly a prime source of censorship (even public schools), they can't be blamed entirely for not teaching the latest technologies.
The most affluent (and I use that term loosely) schools are still on a budget and usually in the minority as far as number of students "processed". Many poorer schools and school districts simply cannot afford to keep up with the rate of technological change - so how can they be expected to teach new technologies?
At the same time there have been cases where corporations (most noteably Microsoft and the BSA) have imposed stiff penalties against schools who attempt to use technologies "creatively" due to a limited budget. Instead of granting these stressed schools reduced-price or free software/hardware for educational purposes, the mega-corps drag them to court for copyright infringement.
Elitism occurs all to often in both developers, "technologists", and technology corporations all in the name of trade secrets and copyrightedness.
Please lay off the little guy who isn't as rich as you; doesn't live in your country; is not as smart as you; doesn't own as fancy a bike as you.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Be careful in attaching too much meaning to opinion surveys. All this survey tells us is how _comfortable_ these users are with technology, not how proficient they really are. This survey could tell us as much about demographic attitudes as it does about capabilities. For instance, your average user in a high-tech area might actually feel less capable than a user in a more agricultural or industrial area, simply because they are constantly surrounded by evidence of the the technology elite. Unless a study is done rigorously, preferably using double-blind testing, I'm going to be skeptical about its interpretation.
Actually, I was trying to be Insightful, not Funny.
Poor people. Damn elite. Let's hate them because they are smarter or richer. Because being smarter and richer is bad. Everyone should be as dumb and poor as us, that will make us feel better about ourselves. The sentiments in this article may be relevant, but the way it is phrased makes me sick.
I am sorry.. i can't understand this whine. People can and should help themselves. It matters not the color of your skin, your income group, etc. There are enough opportunities that if you want to, you can learn. However some people prefer to go frog gigging or play basketball to learn about technology. It is their choice, and I am not going to shed a tear for them. In the end, who is to say they are not happier than me?
I am neither foe nor friend to my brothers, but such as each of them shall deserve of me. And to earn my love, my brothers must do more than to have been born. I do not grant my love without reason, nor to any chance passer-by who may wish to claim it. I honor men with my love. But honor is a thing to be earned.
-Ayn Rand, "Anthem"
The midwesterners (of which I am one, so I can say this) say they are the most confident with their computers.
Of course, as anybody knows, you are better at EVERYTHING while drinking, including being quiet, driving and hitting on women.
"More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard. "
Gee, you don't say. Maybe thats because a TV has limited functionality when compared to a computer. Here is is another amazing fact "99.9% of the people surveyed understand how to work a toaster better then a Nuclear Reactor". Obviously the Nuclear reactor industry has something to learn from the toaster industry.
- WeaselGod
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet turbines
Don't you know that you're supposed to make the systems as confusing, byzantian and obfuscated as possible so that no one can ever replace you? YOU call it 'a million lines of obfuscated C'. I call it 'job security'. BWAAHAHAhaha...*cough* *choke*
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
A lot of the blame here seems to be aimed at the tech. industry.... People seem to think that the tech. industry isn't doing enough to explain things to your average user, or make them simple enough, or produce products that fit the average user's needs. Well, I'll certainly agree that this is all true to a certain degree, but I don't think that is where the majority of the problem lies. The majority of the problem lies not with the tech. industry for failing to educate the masses, but with the masses for failing to do anything to educate themselves.
I work at the local EB, and you'd be amazed at some of the customers we have in here. There are people who know absolutely nothing about the computer that they just purchased - don't know the RAM, speed, HDD space, nothing! This is on a machine that was just purchased a day ago...and all that information is available right on the box! Most people, when they go out to purchase a car, take a look at some basic information...type of transmission, MPG, airbags, ABS, number of seats...you get the idea. Most people (from what I've seen at EB) do not do the same thing with technology.
How much can you expect the tech. industry to educate/provide for the masses when they're not even willing to read the label on a package?
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
If you think that lower costs for companies translate into lower costs for consumers, I have a bridge to sell you. Most markets actually have very little competition in them and prices are fixed so that shareholders and upper management can take away massive profits. Could Microsoft's costs be any lower? Sure, cut their programmer's salaries. Would your copy of XP be cheaper? Nope. Would Bill Gates get richer? Yup.
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
Ummm...someone's already gone and done it...
The Happy Hacking Keyboard.
Thank me.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Thank goodness there will always be work for copy editors in the future! I thought about correcting the spelling and grammar in your post, but then I'd have to charge you. It's a capitalist world, after all.
Levity aside, what you're arguing for smacks of protectionism: My skills are great, but I have to prevent the Morlocks who call my tech-support line from learning how to do things for themselves, or I'm out of a job. Not only is that a piss-poor way of treating people (ever get sneered at by an obnoxious tech who's read one more manual than you have?), but it creates the impression that techs are inventing crises to stay busy, as many commentators thought after Y2K fizzled.
Anyone who regularly reads or posts to Slashdot knows that computers really aren't that difficult to learn with a little effort. I enjoy bringing people up to my level. If that means that I have to strive for an even higher level to stay employed, that's the way it goes.
--- Work, worry, consume, die. It's a wonderful life. -- Bill Griffith
Exactly... Attempting to make a comparison between people's grasp of how to use a television and how to use a computer is pointless.
Can a device really get much simpler to use than a TV? You press "power" and it starts working. Then you select a station to watch. All the rest of the stuff is generally unnecessary. (How often do you play with the "tint" control, really?) In fact, try messing up all of the controls (contrast, color, tint, etc.) on your average set, and then turn it off and wait for someone to come along and try to watch TV.
I bet you'd be surprised how many people freak out and exclaim "My TV is broken!" - and can't figure out on their own how to fix it.
Computers are supposed to be much more complex than a television. Otherwise, they'd be too limiting to serve all of their intended purposes.
From the beginning, computers were designed by and for people who found them interesting enough to invest a large amount of time in learning and mastering them. (Remember how the early home computers included a BASIC programming reference guide as part of the users' manual?) They never intended *everyone* to become proficient with computers. Like many things, they were a hobby for those who were inclined to tinker with them.
Sure, we've come a long way in the last 10 years or so. But still, computers (like medicine) evolve so rapidly, you still have to be committed to an ongoing time investment to keep up. Otherwise, you'll be stuck knowing nothing but, say, Windows 3.1.
I disagree with mostly all of it but whatever. Surveying 3000 adults for a study like this isn't enough. A more comprehensive study needs to be done. For instance, I'm African-American, Black or whatever the fucking PC term is. I'm 22 and tend to think I know a little about computers at least enough to not be totally ignorant. That said blackplanet.com has a shit load of African-American's online every single day. I've never seen it go under the 20,000 mark and mind you this is just one website. I don't use it everyday or even every month but everytime I do go there (maybe every 2 months) there is always a large number of people on. As for others i'd be hard pressed to know anything but from my view of the world conducting a study/survey like this tends to be futile. Technology is just the modern day equivalent of the cavemans sharpened rock for an axe. They are just tools, except these aren't for survival; better communication, yes. Some will know how to use them and others won't. However if a study/survey is to be done 3,000 people isn't enough, if you could get at least 5,000 from every state you'd probably get better numbers.
Ok lemme stop rambling.
Also, I think that we should have people of average or below average intelligence build our software everywhere , and not just at M@crosoft. That would show those elitist guys!!! They have a lot of nerve, studying and working hard and stuff. They are very bad.
Also, we should remove cpus from computers, so they can be easy to use like televisions.
So why is the NE (along with the Bay Area) such a concentration of high tech if it is so techno-dumb? I don't see high tech companies flocking to the mid west. Also, what about all those little schools like Harvard, MIT, BU, NE, etc that are in the NE?
Who did they survey, the illiterate?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
As a Californian who's worked with IT folks in New York City, I can verify the patience issue. Some of the NYC folks were quite bright, but their lack of patience with computers and with themselves really handicapped them. Some of this stuff is just hard, and one has to take time to learn it well.
I do tech support for cable modem access in the midwest. About a third of the time someone needs help, they are actually smart enough to figure things out. They don't need me to hold their hand setting up mail in Outlook Express, they just want the mail server info. They usually have a pretty good idea of whats wrong before they even call me. The rest of my calls are idiots. Most don't understand "Internet Explorer is not your default browser. Would you like to make it your default browser?" Some people come from AOL, and don't understand anything thats happening after they switch to cable modem. Most often though, I find that many people have problems understanding who supports what. I'm always getting calls about monitor problems, hard disk problems or scan disk errors. Sorry dude, your ISP don't cover that. Or they buy an ethernet card from a shady company from Tiawan and they want me to help.
Lets not take things too seriously. After all, its just a game...
That as people grow older they want to put up with constantly changing technology less and less? And it doesn't matter if it's cell phones in this century or automobiles in the last. Eventually technology always passes by a persons WANT to keep up with it.
Comparing TVs to the internet is also completely meaningless. TVs require virtually NO internevtion to operate it's by it's nature a passive activity. The net by it's nature is an active activity. A person does not choose one BECAUSE of the other. They choose one because of what they WANT out of it. Even if you had a computer that was 100% functional without flaws all the time, getting anything out of the net reqires one to pay more attention. It's work. Hell even 100 channels of TV are too much for some people to want to wade through.
And I'm not talking about ignorance or stupidity. I'm talking about WANT. Some people don't WANT to deal with technology on any level no matter how flawless or "easy" you make it.
YOU'RE the one whos elitest. This entire article is one giant freudian slip! You actually think that everyone on the planet HAS to be completely up to date with the latest and greatest. That's bullshit and that's your elitism showing.
This article says loads more about yourself than any other point you tried to being up.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
All computer programs are essentially complete solutions to a problem. The difference between math and computer science is that computer science involves not only math, but logical deductions from math.
Computer science is the only discipline that actually teachs how to think. Most other disciplines just spoon feed meaningless garbage down childrens throats.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
The only situation where it helps us, is in extremely competitive markets like Intel vs AMD, but in terms of most computer markets, theres too many monopolies.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Katz is once again missing the point. So what if most people throw their tech out when it breaks? When my pants break, I send them to good will and buy new ones. A friend of mine is a seamstress and fixes broken clothes and frequently makes them in the first place. She's not so good with the computer though. And I don't see any reason why she should be. There is too much information in the world for one person to be knowledgeable about everything. The best you can hope for is to know a little about alot and a lot about a little and try to surround yourself with people whose lots correspond to your littles.
The same patters that Katz is bemoaning in the tech industry are true of clothes (I can probably sew a button on, but anything more complicated than that and I'm lost) and cars (I can change a tire, but that's probably about it) and books (if it's not in English or Spanish, I'm lost) and bridges (I drive over them. They don't break) and . . . you get the idea.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
forget about VCR's and digital cameras, the tech gap is EVERYWHERE!
I believe one of the most fundamental differences between a tech-savvy person and a non-techie (all other things being equal) is that at the core the tech-savvy person isn't afraid of the technology.
Put a 10 year-old in front of a computer and watch them go wild, trying everything out, then put a 50 year-old in front of the same computer and marvel at their fear of breaking the thing by pressing a mouse button.
To address the gap specifically, look at cars. 30 years ago, new cars could all be worked on by most auto-savvy people. now we look around and find that there are more than a couple makers that won't allow you to turn off the check-engine light until you come in for your $5000 dealer oil change (exageration intended).
Most people accept this because cars of today have engines half the size producing twice the power and a fraction of the emissions as those from 30 years ago. It's a compromise.
Now let's apply this to the computer industry, and we can see the parallel is indeed there. The compromise lies in the fact that computers today can do quiteliterally THOUSANDS of things the Apple II could not. 40 years ago, it truly was possible for someone with motivation to be a master in the realm of computing -- now a person considers himself lucky to truly master one tiny specialised field in 5 years.
It's not abusing the consumer, it's giving people more of what they want at the expense of them not understanding *everything*.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Having worked in retail selling PCs and then having worked for a large ISP doing tech support and writing technical support content, my opinion of the matter, whatever it is worth, is that no one has realized the basic fact that support works only when both sides meet at the middle.
First of all, companies spend too much on supporting the least profitable customers. There are, unfortunately, some people who are just too stupid to use certain technologies. That may not fit in with the idealism of the present age, but it is a fact. At the same time, savvy users are often denied the online resources / self help data which is cheap to provide. No one should ever have to dig, for example, for IP, DNS, etc. setttings for their ISP. The ISP I use doesn't have a single page written with the basic numbers that I need to configure a PC, but they'll spend countless hours writing "How to use e-mail" documents and supporting users who delete their WINNT directory "because they're using Windows 2000."
Learning to use technology requires the affirmative and volitional use of brainpower. The worst disservice you can do to support a person is to tell them what keys to press, and in what order, without telling them why. This may be a short term fix to get a customer off of the phones, but it results in countless followup calls which make hold times longer, support more expensive, and therefore services for expensive. A little user education goes a long way. Consumers should be expected to open up their minds and learn about the technologies they use. If a 3 year old can use a PC - and many, many do, there is no reason why a full-grown person cannot spend a little time in the evenings educating themselves in whatever way they are most comfortable with.
"I don't have the time." What this means is, the individual would rather watch Survivor than spend 30 minutes in their evenings learning a little bit about the technology they use. Well, that's *their* problem. In the end, the decreased productivity they experience, all of the time saving measures they cannot avail themselves of, etc. far exceeds the simple initial investment of RTFM. How often I've watched people in my own office lay out little bulletins and brochures using scotch tape and scissors when they could have done it in a fraction of the time using only the most basic functions of Word. It's not as if you have to be a computer geek, just a reasonably educated computer user. Anyone who has ever put the time in ought to know that the investment pays off, frees up time, money, and resources.
Paranoia about support boundaries. Several companies I've worked for have paranoia about supporting products beyond the most rudimentary tasks. An example of this is setting up a Linux system to work with an ISP. Write the damn documentation, put it online, and then put a disclaimer on it saying, "Use this information at your own risk. We don't support it and are not responsible for anything that happens to you including spontaneous combustion if it all goes awry." Whatever the company's legal department is happy with. Some companies do this now and it makes life easier and saves a phone call, which costs companies so much money.
So much time has been spent catering to the user's ignorance that consumers are not expected to take some effort to learn about the products they buy. Every time something is dumbed down to the point a monkey can use it, inevitably two things happen:
Ideally, ample online/self-help resources ought to be provided by every company that manufactures a product, because it is cheap; in fact it costs almost nothing. You spend the time hiring some technical writers or knowledge engineers to put together a knowledge base or support web, then just have a few maintainers on. Agents can then use this information for support, and so forth. This is infinitely cheaper than doing phone support.
Then, there ought to be tiered pricing for support, depending on the issue. Phone support ought not necessarily be free. People who expect companies to bend over backwards for them have no conception of revenue models. Support is *expensive*. There is no reason, for example, a company should be forced to support someone who will not crack open a manual. What this does is drive up wait times, resulting either in customer dissatisfaction, or the company has to hire more tech support people, which costs money, cuts into profits, resulting in the expense being passed onto the consumer.
But consumers want everything dirt cheap. That's Capitalism. What they don't want is the very basic reality that you get what you pay for. Take low-margin industries like PC retail. Sure you can buy a bargain basement clone with who-knows-what in it, but somehow when it works like crap, the indignant dissastisfied-customer attitude doesn't impress me. Support and quality ought to come at a premium. If customers didn't buy technology like they buy clothes pins, like "they're all the same," maybe they wouldn't be bitten so hard by poor support and low quality.
Inevitably every customer I've dealt with has some "10 year old whiz kid" in the family who *thinks* he knows everything about computers. Occasionally this is the case, but more often my experience has been that for some perverse reason it has become *fashionable* to be a computer nerd, and so a lot of people who know how to mouse around in Windows call themselves experts for the supposed status it brings (I went to school in the 1980s and the opposite could not have been more true). All technology is not build the same. All companies are not built the same. Sometimes, yeah, you get what you pay for. Deal with it.
Learn to read manuals and use the library and especially online resources. Or else get someone to teach you. Or pay for the support that you require that so few others, who have the ability to learn on their own, do.
I had no one to teach me about computers or technology, or how to work my VCR. I had to sit down and learn it, and it didn't take up all of my free time; I didn't have to dedicate my life to figure out how to stop the damn blinking 12:00 on my VCR. It took 5 minutes. 5 minutes people are not willing to spend. And in 90% of the cases not because they are working 24/7 and don't have a single second to figure it out, but because they are lazy and would rather indulge themselves in whatever banalities pass for entertainment in the world these days. I am not sympathetic. There are so many resources available to people, and the time required to learn the basics of anything so considerably small compared to the time-saving benefits and payoffs, that I don't see why I should care about this gap.
Somewhere in America there is an idiot whining about the fact that he has to learn to cursor around the menu system on his VCR, while an 8 year old is installing FreeBSD in his free time.
Welcome to the 2000s. This is life. I wonder if people whined about having to learn to read following the invention of the printing press and the onset of the Enlightenment, and eventually the industrial revolution.
Carry your own weight, or get out of the road, maggots.
http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml
From that page:
The Atanasoff-Berry Computer was the world's first electronic digital computer. It was built by John Vincent Atanasoff and Clifford Berry at Iowa State University during 1937-42. It incorporated several major innovations in computing including the use of binary arithmetic, regenerative memory, parallel processing, and separation of memory and computing functions.
On October 19, 1973, US Federal Judge Earl R. Larson signed his decision following a lengthy court trial which declared the ENIAC patent of Mauchly and Eckert invalid and named Atanasoff the inventor of the electronic digital computer -- the Atanasoff-Berry Computer or the ABC.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
If the political and legal systems were complete hands off, business wouldn't try to influence them, since it would be a bad investment. The real question is how do we do this? I don't think that there is any easy answer.
The Economics of Website Security
I learned everything I know about computers, math, science, technology, etc. by having the motivation and intelligence to teach MYSELF.
If you're too lazy or stupid to educate yourself, it's not my problem or anyone else's. It's yours.
I mean, we still have millions of people in this country who believe the world was created in 6 days 6,000 years ago. These same people also believe in the powers of John Edwards and Miss Cleo. I have no sympathy, nor do I have a problem getting wealthy off of these people's willful ignorance.
- end of rant -
Personally, I think it starts somewhere in grade school (and perhaps even before):
There are kids who only do what they are told to, there are kids who extrapolate on what they are told to do, then there are kids who get the other kids to do what they were told to do to do it for them (whew!)...
Anyhow, most people fall into the first and last categories. They are trapped there, by their own ignorance and apathy. Call them the Sheep and the Lazy.
In reality, they are one and the same. Whether it is how to program a VCR, work a computer, or fix a leaky faucet - not a single one of them will take the time to learn to do it themselves (which is probably a good thing - it keeps those who are in the second category gainfully employed).
Those in the middle? They are the artists, the thinkers, the tinkerers, the inventors, the mechanics, the programmers - they are the people who ask the questions, find the answers, and then apply those answers toward the search for the truth (which inevitably leads to more questions, more answers, etc).
I don't think I will ever understand completely why there are individuals without curiosity and drive to expand their knowledge about the world around them. With time on this planet so limited, it should almost be an instinct to want to know more. The travesty for anyone who does exhibit curiosity about the world around them is that they also know that one day, in what is really only a blink of time, that the quest will end - whether they want it to or not.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Yeah, they'll ponder it really hard. What the hell do people do with a TV besides change channels, change the volume, and turn it on and off? I know how to use my blender better than my computer too, should the industry ponder that? Will we see a row of buttons labeled "chop" and "puree" on the computers of the future? You fucking idiot.
Even more odd, who the hell are those 20% who say they can operate a computer better than a TV? I mean even ignoring programming/linux/etc, I still don't know how to use all the shit in Microsoft Word, but i'm a fucking jedi master at my brightness/contrast controls. That one stat would have invalidated the entire study for anyone smarter than Katz.
I was about to post something to this effect, but I saw that you posted it first. Let me add something to this, please.
If you ask my 18 year old brother if he's technically proficient, he'll answer that he's looking for a job as a tech support. If you ask my 49 year old step father, he'll say hell no, he's an electrician, not a computer guru. Who fucks their computer up time and time again? My brother. Who knows to call me when the brother has fucked everything up? My stepfather. Older people know themselves, and thus their limits a hell of a lot better than than youngin's. (Am I old enough to use that phrase yet? Maybe not...hrm.) I'd put more faith in an experience to knowledge relationship than anything age-related.
2. You're blinded by bias, again, and draw the wrong conclustion.
In your narrow (and anti all-slashdotters hate microsoft/love linux and wallow in tech) view you utterly miss the point, this is not a pro-Linux, or anti-M$ GUI thread, it's not even about how big and successful M$ is, it's about how M$ offerings are what is in common use. Microsoft didn't create the monopoly, business did, big business. Home users followed, because, despite even learning on a Mac in school, they wanted to use the same interface and tools they use at work. With such acceptance behind them, Microsoft set out to leverage their market with the goal of creating operating system, applications, everything to be so intuitive that the user wouldn't even need a manual. This makes users expect everything to be simple.
Remember the days before microwaves and instant dinners in a plastic wrap, or even McDonalds? Preparing food was a technical achievment, particularly if highly palatable and even presented well with a garnish. So instant or fast food makes it easy to just bypass all that learning and practice, just press a button or hand over a ten-spot.
Societal ill? How so?
Manufacturer's fault? Not entirely.
A product which fills a need, yet through dependence on, reduces the need for technical knowledge is a problem waiting to happen.
The problem is when it breaks down. Word locks up and eats a document, the microwave breaks down, or McDonalds is closed, what is the user who only knows how to function in one paradigm to function?
Call the helpdesk. Maybe they even have a powerbar they can lend you.
After many years of varied experience I'm of the opinion we each have the mental energy (actaully chemical/physiological) to kkeep track of so many details and perform so many skills. As one area increases it does so at the atrophy of another. Use it or lose it, as they say. Don't waste your energy being biased, there's no payoff.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Why should the tech industry think "long and hard" about how most folks can use a TV more easily than they can a computer?
One part of me thinks that bringing computers out of the garages and labs was a BIG mistake. This part of me says, "Computers are for techies, not for the general masses." Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be further ahead if we hadn't sold out?
..but then I supposed I wouldn't have my Palm Pilot. I dunno. It just seems a bit unrealistic to expect everyone everywhere to understand computers. They are NOT "magic TVs".
Furthermore, I do not want my computer to become a "magic TV." I want my computers to continue to be my own jumbles of circuit cards and twisted wires and strange humming noises that my wife points at and says the word "that".
I don't want to be coddled by layers and layers of metaphor and "cuteness". I want my machines to be powerful tools that I can use for work, study and pastime. I don't want them "dumbed down".
Then again, I sure like my GPS and digital camera. I don't think I'd have these toys if I still had to buy wire-wrap sockets and ICs to fix my Altair 8800. So, once again, I'm not sure.
Did we sell out?
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
Um, how many farmers do you know? When I was working at a rural ER in North Dakota, we saw an unbelievable number of injuries caused by farmers getting anew peice of equipment, looking at it and saying, "Well, it pretty much looks like the old one," taking off all the safety equipment, and going straight to work ... IIRC, farming is now the most dangerous occupation in the US, riskier than mining, construction, or other traditionally high-risk jobs like working at the post office. ;)
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
If you don't want to lose your job and starve, I suggest that you go get some more knowledge yourself. Of course, if everyone was like you, you wouldn't have any to begin with, let alone be in a position to get more.
I would consider someone who seeks and shares knowledge to be greater than someone who selfishly hoards it for their own gain. That is the difference between enlightenment and oppression.
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If people aren't tech savvy, it's because they don't want to be. Culturally, they are conditioned to think that it's not "cool", that it's "too geeky", and that becoming a lawyer, PR spokesman, manager, or politician is just so much better.
In the US, the market satisfies demands. On the whole, people are getting the technology they ask for. They don't want to be tech savvy, they aren't willing to pay extra for reliability or ease-of-use, so they end up with something like Windows. Geeks have been preaching the importance of technology forever, but people aren't listening. What more do you want?
Uh, this is a capitalist society, its not perfect, but its everyone for themself.
I'm not helping anyone whos not a close friend or family member, unless i'm being paid to.
The only help ill give newbies is the basics.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Eventually you are going to get old, and some smarter, younger, highly educated college kid is going to come knowing more than you do.
Unless you plan to go to college every 4 years, you wont be able to keep up, and no not everyone wants to go to college all their life, some people just want a normal career, you know where you spend your time in college, get a degree, and then go to work for at least 10-15 years before having to go and take a few courses.
I understand you have to learn and be smart to work in the computer industry, but at age 40 when you have kids and a wife do you really want to come home and study, then go to your college courses, I mean you'll have a pretty damn horrible life if all you do is work, college, study then sleep.
I doubt you'd even have time for a wife if you had one if you live your job 100 percent of the time just to keep up with the jones on every level.
We need stability, careers again, not everyone wants to switch careers every few years because we keep educating people and building machines which replace our jobs.
Any programmers who build machines to self heal are just raising the bar higher and higher until eventually we will have computers which can program themselves and computers which can repair themselves, sure saves money for rich CEOs but it does nothing for us, absolutely nothing.
I am not in a rush to be forced to get a PHD, and deal with courses on nano technology, and quantum physics, I do read up on it in my free time, but by raising the bar its going to force all of us to move at a faster pace.
Perhaps when you get tired of school and want to enjoy life, you'll understand theres more to life than jumping through hoops, passing tests, getting degrees, etc, people who are young dont mind that, but i cant imagine doing that stuff when I'm 40. I want to retire at 40.Or at least be comfortable with my job and stable.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Isn't a Katz story perhaps long enough for two or three ads?
Ok Mr.Millionare CEO Boss Guy.
I'm not unAmerican, and whats wrong with socialism?
Are you one of those anti Communist Absolte Pro Capitalist crusader guys?
Ok well listen, Capitalism is not perfect, its like a pyramid, you are either at the top or at the bottom, telling others how to get to the top, simply raises the bar, you wont be at the top anymore, you'll be in the middle, or at the bottom with the rest of them.
The logic is simple, a magician never reveals his secrets, keep your tricks to yourself, dont teach anyone because essentially everyone is your competition.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Duh! Well I should hope so. But that does not say anything at all about the mechanical abilities of either group. It does say something about the fact that: a) there is more snow in Canada than Egypt; b) Canadian standard of living can better afford such toys. And that's all.
So unless the survey tried to use statistical controls, its data are completely meaningless -worse, misleading. Just a couple of hypothetical examples off the top of my head:
Control for age and education (Asians have higher proportions of college students; who can certainly be expected to be internet-savvy), otherwise you haven't shown anything.
Control for poverty (poor people living in urban areas are less likely to have a landline, ergo more likely to use a cellphone or payphone; hence more likely to understand how it works --out of necessity--; and since there is higher poverty among blacks and hispanics...), otherwise you haven't shown anything.
(Notice I didn't compare Canadians to Floridians, as some would argue these two groups are one and the same).
I'm an admin for a k-12 school and many teachers (even ones just out of college) are technologically inept. Some regularly forget how to check their e-mail, others forget how to center and bold text in word. And still some do not understand me when I say "open your web browser and point it to www.somewhere.com"; they what does it mean to point to?
We're not talking rocket science here.
If these teachers can not follow directions, then learn and retain these simple steps, how can they expect their students to? Until educators are proficient in technology and schools provide enough current technological instruction most people in this country just won't ever "get it".
-ted
Time. Do you want to spend your life learning diffrent programming languages, or studying quantum mechanics and doing insane math, every day at work and all night just so you can keep up with some other guy who just happens to naturally be good with math and programming?
Not everyone is naturally good at math or programming but when you raise the bar, everyone has to become good at it.
Raising the bar higher and higher eventually causes a person to make a choice, live a life of school, college, learning, and adapting at every moment, or be a sys admin
not everyone wants to be a damn rocket scientist, not everoyne should be forced to do so, and the tech industry shouldnt force people to do this, i like technology, i dont like math or programming, i have my skillset, i understand programming i just hate doing it,
If everyone is forced to be a programmer, then alot of people will have careers doing something they hate, and dont act like they can c hoose to do something else, these kinds of jobs will be all thats left eventually.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The following is the combination of my words from two messages to the
.NET is a distortion of reality one way or another and as .net can't be used to
c oding. pdf
/ hirts_repo rt1.0.pdf
d e/
d ing.0110.1. htm
i ty/egif_do cument.asp?docnum=430
i n.pdf
t ml
e /
/ KC.html
....
lightweight language list (the snips that I was responding to have been
removed and the responses have not been included either.)
The point is, the end user doesn't and shouldn't have to learn to think
like some specific programmer, but the field of programming and simply
"doing" things with computers can be quantized down to an overlay of
common action set used to "automate". And in a manner that anyone using a
computer can understand what a computer is, an automation machine with
programmed automations, which can include autocoding (usable by the end
user with end user resources.)
Meaning there is a common ground to recognize and use to bridge the
supposed gap. Slashdot has had quite a day that this thread is posted to.
On the Intellectual Property issues: (the following is not directed at
anyone specific - unless mentioned below - but rather general statements
form the other side [father physics and mother nature synergy] POV.)
There are some things that cannot be owned or otherwise constrained in
use.
Natural Law, Physical Phenomenon, Abstract Ideas and there are more such
things on the list as well, these are the top three.
The reasons such things cannot be IP constrained is becaue they are in
essence more powerful than human control can handle in a manner of
enforcement or adhearance to man applied constraints. Language itself is
something that grows so long as it is not constrained in use rights or
royality payments, etc..
Any man made system that attempts or claims to have or place constraints
on such items are in essence undermining itself by presenting the
illusion, a falseness of power to constrain others. No different than
witch hunts, master race, slavery, irrational inqusitions, etc., only
proving a lack of being in touch with hard reality by those of the system.
The idea of applying minor variations to that which qualifies as non-IP
ownable, in order to alter it enough to make it IP ownable, is what we
already have alot of and in no way does such distortions create any sort
of "improvements" to what simply is (no matter what hype and marketing
babel is added). Rather what the results are is something less in value
and usability, the addition of constraints that otherwise do not exist.
Distorting physical reality is not going to get you something better in
reality, but only an illusion, and excape from reality. And don't we
already know where this leads? Haven't we enough examples of seemingly
impossible to solve problems (as in computer programming) as a result of
such illusions?
"make people need you" is an MS business attitude and inherently it must
distort reality for this attitude to "pay off" in non-direct ways. In
comparision consider how the non-constrained TCP/IP protocal payed off in
direct ways. non-direct meaning money, direct meaning functionality and
use productivity that then helps to cause money to flow.
To Be Clear:
such it is also logically less than what can be and is defined by
physically reality. Physical reality does not state
create GPL software. That constraint is a man made one, made of only
thought.
But how aware people are to what is........illusion or reality????
Reality doesn't care whether or not you are aware of it, it still is and
keeps on keeping on. Obvious? Wasn't it obvious the earth revolved around
the sun? Perhaps that non-obvious "idea" should bave been patented and
hidden in a vault forever (so as to support the those then in "control"?)
Would MS or what other company would like to have a patent on air?
All you have to do is communicate it in a difficult to follow language
that sounds and looks intellectually good and the patent office will
figure rather than look stupid for not really understanding, if someone
wants to oppose it, they'll have to pay the patent office something like 2
grand $$$ to start the process. Or be challenged in court by the IP holder
of air, where the judge who breaths it will do the patent office employees
job. No sweat of the back of the patent office employee. But benefit to
those who can fool the majority?
If you really want to solve the problems with advancement constraints in
the field of programming, then remove the false constraints and stop
promoting them. Don't be skerd, for skerd begets skerd.
If you do not know the difference between a 3D data array or 3D computer
generated graphics and 3D reality of length, width and height, that you
were taught in grade school, then the matrix has you. Take a vacation,
become unplugged.
The talking of a distortion of reality and improving upon it, some here
and some there, until it is a representation of reality, is NOT an EXCUSE
or a sneaking up method to Patent Reality. But the attempts to do so is
the essence of the collision path some have identified regarding IP
directions and patent offices judgement difficulties.
Father Physics and Mother Nature always wins. Their synergy is always
faster and stronger than a distorted representation of it.
Language is only as useful as it's agreed upon use. To automate it's use
(as in programming languages, and translations of) is to insure it's
agreed upon use. I.E. to automate the adhearance to a given languages
do's, don'ts, and standards is to insure against bugs of those types.
Isn't the goal of programming to make bug free applications? Or is it to
sell upgrades based on bug existance and removal? Where is the illusion?
You cannot solve a general language problem by creating another language.
It's the Turing Halting problem and Godel's Theorem
But there is another approach, not a language but action set for
automation of language use and translation. The gears and bearing of
doing.
I suggest an open source software project to produce a core tool that
will allow an autocoding environment to be developed, allowed to evolve
in the open source software community and spirit of. I believe we can
overcome many of the problems that proprietary autocoding systems
inherently have (not to mention that existing autocoding systems appear
to be field/domain specific limited and that it may be possible to beat
this too.)
First:
Ghostscript PDF viewers for the following PDF links (if you don't already
have a PDF viewer) http://www.cs.wisc.edu/%7Eghost/
The following information represents what is probably the best of what is
available thru the Web on the subject of autocoding. (via google)
HIRTS DARP Working Group on Autocoding, 18th, 19th April 2000
http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/hise/darp/pdf/auto
(Brings up various issues which will help you focus in on what
"autocoding" is and what some of the issues to solve, are.)
The follow up, to the above, is:
May 8th thru 10th, 2001 "DARP HIRTS Workshop" paper by Jakob Engblom:
http://www.artes.uu.se/mobility/reports
(See pages 5-6 section 3.2.5 The Use of Tools in Aerospace)
In summary, Though autocoding is being used to some extent, it is a
future hope, since in general it has a bug density which is an order of
a magnititude lower than manual code. Point being is that this is
leading edge stuff, an opportunity for OSS to shine.
The above paper mentioned the SCADE autocoding product:
http://www.esterel-technologies.com/sca
(See code generator part of Product overview, Benefits, Toolset Features)
Autocoding as it applies to the medical industry:
http://www.ahima.org/journal/coding/co
(Since it was mentioned in a paper above, know it's a product of a
different nature.)
To help show why I believe OSS efforts can shine when it comes to such a
project as Autocoding:
QinetiQ - Analysis of the Impact of Open Source Software
http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/interoperabil
and From the Conference on the Public Domain, Nov. 9-11. 2001 at Duke Law
School "Coase's Penguin, or, Linux and the Nature of the Firm" by Yochai
Benkler: http://www.law.duke.edu/pd/papers/Coase%27s_Pengu
It is also worth mentioning, to my undersandng, that the GNU efforts are
becomming more modular in nature and there is also the Hurd that is
modular or componet based from the ground up. This is a consistant and
fitting direction in accord with an open autocoding development and use
environment.
OK, so although this project is not AeroSpace "Mission Critical", it does
not hurt to make the quality target of the project to be of such high
standards. Actually, what I believe is that the core (as mentioned at the
beginning of this post) can be made to be of high quality itself, where
the rest, the coding knowledge base or what ever you want to call the
pre-autocode dictionary, will be of whatever quality it is created and
improved to be (as is the way and spirit of the OSS community.)
Where to start?
Automating what was done manually requires the identification of, and
ability to apply, the manual action set we use, but have the computer do
it. A USPTO Published comment introducing these identified actions and
suggestions of how they may be applied, including autocoding, is here:
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.h
The bottom part of my home page regarding the
"Virtial Interaction Configuration":
http://www.mindspring.com/~timru
An older paper on the Virtual Interaction Configuration:
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue
Why don't I do this shell and/or library myself?
I don't consider myself a programmer having the experience and knowledge
of better ways of coding somethings and as such I'm sure this core of
functionality can be coded better and faster than what I could do, but
there is what I have done, and that includes some python programming that
can be used and run to show/communicate some of the concepts of the
Virtual Interaction Configuration. And I can provide insight as to how it
may be used for such things as autocoding. Until recently, this past
week, I wasn't aware "autocoding" was an actual goal and practice of
anyone, though I have used the term for sever years now, and apparently,
given the above HIRTS DARP papers, my perspectives and thoughts on the
matter have been along the lines of what's been going on. Though I do
believe The VIC as a core can solve some of the problems facing commercial
autocoding packages (but this is something to get into later, when I can
communicate but showing).
Besides the VIC core, there is the pre-automation code base(s) to create
for whatever programming language(s) people want to use. And that's
something clearly beyond my ability to directly do, at least in the
beginning. Besides, there are many other things the VIC can be used for
besides autocoding. Consider it a tool for general automation...
At any rate I do believe Autocoding is a worthwhile goal that the GNU
community can shine at. And I think some of you, in consideration of the
HIRTS DARP link contents and the USPTO comment, will too.
There are nine action constants and by identifying them in what we do, by
super-imposing or overlaying these actions upon what we do, we can
identify the automation points. With this, we can automate what we do
thru computers, including programming. And what is programming but the
automation of complexity that is made up of simpler things, done so to
make the use and reuse of such complexity easy for the user.
What language you use is perhaps more a matter of interfacing to a process
that eventually is translated into machine readable form, binary machine
code. Mixing and matching languages for the best of effect shouldn't be a
problem as it eventually gets converted to the machine code common. But
understand that this is not a new language or a replacement of languages,
rather a tool set to allow the automation of language use. I.E. automating
the do's, don'ts and standards in any language as well as any dynamically
repeatable sequence of functionality.
Certainly everyone does understand in reading and responding to posts
here, they actually make use of all nine action (the crew of the
Nebachadnezzar [each persons ship]).
It's physics!
Lets see now (using the metaphors of the movie "The Matrix"):
Switch (AI - alternate/activate interface) - start and stop, change
interfaces - Uh, start up Web Browser/newsreader/email client and connect.
Go to group, thread....
Apoc (PK - Place Keeper) - keep track of where you are - Pick up where
you left off on the thread..
Tank (OI - Obtain Input - Output to-> Input) - get input - read with eyes.
Mouse (IP - InPut set) - input from - internet and monitor
Dozer (OP - OutPut set) - push output to - via keyboard/mouse to Mailing
list posting.
Neo (SF - Sequence stufF) - one step at a time - damn this non-polyphonic
qwerty keyboard and mouse...
Morpheus (IQ - Intelligence Quotient) - what's the meaning of the post
I'm reading, what the meaning I want to respond with - within the (KE'd)
constraints of
Trinity (ID - IDentify) - identify posters and forum - hey there is one
by ____ in ____ forum, now I know to be (KE'd) constrained as to how I
respond.
Cypher (KE - Knowledge Enable)- constraints to apply to Morpheus (IQ)
meanings and Trinity (ID) poster named _____ and _____ forum and ____
topic.
Of course the three agents represent the three fundamental concepts of
INPUT, PROCESSING, OUTPUT. The nine above are an expansion upon them. Just
as in physics, the more details you have the greater the control.
Maybe it'd be a worthwhile exercise to ask others to give an example of
their use of the nine, in using computer or other non-computer related
things done?
There is something else that makes such a configuration of functionality
even more useful, beyond just programming and that is to supply the user
with the three primary User Interfaces. The CommandLine Interface, The GUI
and the side door to application/functionality external control. And
example that may be seen as the Amiga Arexx "Ports" found pretty much
standard in amiga applications, libraries and devices. But lets just call
it the Automation Programming Interface (API), as the general concept of
this "side door" exist in many different flavors and limitations usually
unfriendly in standard an ease of use.
But with all three accessible in a user friendly way..... Well if you
eliminat one of the primary colors of light (RGB) then the remaining
combination is far more limiting than -1/3 due to synergy of the three.
The same door of possibilities exist with the three primary user
interfaces.
If interested in helping, it's an open project, let me know.
If interested in using such a tool, then say so here, let others know.
its ok to learn new things, i dont want to switch entirely to a diffrent job, i dont mind learning more about what i do
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I support open source, but open source isnt how our system and laws are currently set up.
If the world was actually a community, then I'd help everyone, face it the world is not a community, in the workplace its me vs you vs joe.
I'm not going to help you take my raise, or make myself less valueable so i'm not useful anymore.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Hmmmm, you may have to edit out some of the "spaces" from the links in the above message, in order to make them work.
I have no idea where those spaces came from. Perhaps from the minds of the arrogant elite as representations of what they have upstairs?????
Part of the problem has to do with the fact that Moore's law is still true, and hardware manufacturers everywhere are striving ever harder to extend its lifetime more than half a generation after Gordon Moore himself said it would end. This means that technology is getting more and more complex at an exponential rate, so much so that only those of us who are comfortable with such rapid evolution can stay on top of things, and usually, not even then. This is an explosion of complexity, and I think most people do not get a buzz out of comprehending complexity that changes all the time. In fact, such an explosion of complexity is terrifying to almost everyone, and is at the core of most technophobia.
Moore's Law should come to an end, and by this I mean that the pace of evolutionary progress of semiconductor and hence computer technology would slow down to perhaps a linear scale, or any scale that would give time for most people to think about what they have and what they can do with it. That's the problem with Moore's Law: it doesn't give anyone but those who choose to be part of the technological élite to even think about how it will affect their lives.
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
...This last group [those who simply buy a new produt when theirs breaks] may be rich, but it's also smart; its members are most likely tech veterans who've spend years struggling with customer service, poring through complex warranties, waiting on hold for support and assistance, an oxymoron if ever there was one.
;-)
;) ). I'll just by a universal remote, or a new cassette player for $5-$10 at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, if my computer stops working, or my car breaks down, you can bet I'm going to make every attempt to fix it, or get it fixed, before I throw in the towel and start hunting for a replacement.
;) ) and don't consider, or even realize, all of the other functions a PC is capable of. Those who said that they don't fully understand how to use their PCs are probably either experienced users who better understand how much a PC can do, or less knowledgeable folks who have seen a technical guru do things with a PC that they don't understand or don't know how to do.
;)
;) ).
;-D
;)
;) ).
;) )
;) A computer, on the other hand, is about as interactive as technology gets. They also differ in terms of function. A TV essentially has one function; to display moving pictures and sound to the viewer. A computer has far too many functions to even begin listing them.
;)
;-)
;-D ;-D )
Well, now, this depends on exactly what that "something" is, doesn't it? I wonder how this question was worded.
First of all, are there really people out there who will simply buy a new product at the first sign of trouble, without even attempting to discern what went wrong? That doesn't sound too smart to me; it sounds rather stupid, actually. Do they toss their boom boxes in the trash when the batteries die? Do they discard their remote controls if they don't work because they aren't pointing them at the TV? There are users who call tech support without trying even the simplest troubleshooting on their own, though, so I suppose there are probably people who bypass that step altogether and just buy a new one. I'd hardly call them "tech vets," however, unless you're referring to the sheer number of gadgets and gizmos that probably pass through their hands and into a landfill somewhere in the course of a year...
Now, as for something that really *is* broken...whether I try to fix it or just replace it depends on what the item is, how complicated it would be to repair, and how much a replacement would cost (in terms of price and effort). If my TV remote really does stop working, or my cheap Walkman knockoff breaks, I'm not going to waste the time and effort to try and fix them (well, maybe out of *curiosity*, I might take 'em apart...but I'd do so knowing full well I'd never get 'em back together again
The survey of nearly 3000 adults...
Now, I might not be an expert on surveys, but three *thousand* people? There were more people than that in my high school, for goodness sake! That seems pretty darn small to get a real representative example, especially with the broad range of criteria they covered (race, age, geographic location, etc.)
Though fewer than half of Americans with computers say they fully understand how to operate them and all their features...
This statement illustrates an important distinction between *perceived* functionality and *actual* functionality. I know of no human being who "fully understands" every use and feature of a desktop computer system. I seriously doubt that any exist. I don't think there is even anyone who can claim to fully understand how to use all the features of a single *operating system*, much less a computer system.
This statement makes me think that the respondants who did claim to "fully understand how to operate them and all their features" are actually the least knowledgeable when it comes to operating a computer. Most likely, they use the computer for a few simple tasks (read email, write letters, look at porn
Northeasterners are the most confused, Midwesterners the most computer-confident. When attempting to learn their way around a new purchase, 89 percent consult instruction manuals, poor saps.
First of all...89 percent of *who*? Midwesterners? Northerners? People surveyed? Dogs?
Secondly, when "learning their way around a new technology," is it any wonder that most (sensible) people consult instructions manuals, at least to some degree? I always at least skim instruction manuals for most products I buy. I could probably figure out how to use most of them without assistance, but by checking the instructions, I usually learn about cool features or abilities that I never would have found, or would have taken a long time to find, otherwise. And if you're unfamiliar with a new product, the instruction manual is the best place to start (though, sadly, it's rarely the best place to finish...
The scary group is the 11% who *don't* RTFM when they're trying to use a new product. A few of these are probably just folks who are good at figuring it out on their own. The rest are the ones who call tech support to ask why their new toy doesn't work, only to be told that it needs to be plugged in first, or that they need to press that button marked "ON" to make it work...
Television, meanwhile, continues its long reign as Americans' most beloved and comprehensible technology. In fact, for years TV has not gotten its due as one of the monumentally successful technologies of all time -- cheap, reliable, easy to use. More than 80 percent of respondents across the country understood how to work a TV better than a computer, something for the computer industry to ponder long and hard.
Bwahahahahahaha...*ahem*...excuse me...
How many functions are required to use a television? Well, let's see...there's one manual task to learn: pushing a button. Pretty simple. Doesn't take long. Even mice can do that. Ahd how many functions do you need to learn to work a TV? Technically, two...turn the thing on and change the channel. In practicality, about five. On/Off, Channel Up, Channel Down, Volume Up, Volume Down. Voila...you're watching TV! Wheee!
Now, let's take a computer. First, manual tasks. Well, we gotta learn how to move the mouse (and associate those movements with a cursor on the screen). We gotta left-click, right-click, double-click. Got that? Good...now learn to type. Figure out the QWERTY keyboard layout. Now figure out how to press two keys at once. Now, press three at once. (Hint: Practice with CTRL+ALT+DEL, you'll use these quite a bit
OK, now that you've got all that down, it's time to learn Windows! To start, click the Start button. To turn it off, click the Start button. Yeah, same button... (and so on, and so forth...
Comparing a TV to a computer is like saying if you know how to watch Top Gun on your VCR, you oughta be able to fly an F-16. A TV and a PC are worlds apart. Television is essentially passive entertainment. It requires an absolute minimum of interaction and input from the user. All you gotta do is pick a channel and sit back. A monkey could do it. Some probably have...
The media companies would like nothing more than to turn all of our computers into passive devices that do nothing but force-feed us whatever "content" they feel like pushing that day, and take our money in return. But if we reach that point, our computers aren't computers anymore; they're just TVs.
Bottom line: If you want a TV, buy a TV. Don't buy a computer and then complain because it isn't as easy to use as a TV.
A side note...did almost 20% of those surveyed really say they know how to use a computer better than a TV? Now, that's frightening. Wonder how many of those have an @aol.com on the tail end of their email addresses?
On the other hand, 65 percent of African-Americans say they know and understand the features of their mobile phones, compared with only 42 percent of whites and 56 percent of Hispanics.
I will refrain from commenting on a particular commonly held (and certainly incorrect) stereotype about a common career path of those of a particular race mentioned above and the neccesity of cell phones to this particular career...
(And for those who are offended, if you're smart enough to figure out what I'm talking about, you oughta be smart enough to know that I'm just joking...
The real bottom line to all of this: Technology is complicated. Let's face it...it's simply a fact that the more functions a particular device is capable of, the more complicated it is to operate that device, and the harder it is to learn to use it to it's fullest. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for easier, more user-friendly interfaces and devices, but we cannot expect a fully functional computer to be as easy to use as a television.
The real problem is, the only way to truly make a device easier to use, when you come right down to it, is to remove functionality. More than 80% of the population knows how to use a TV fairly well. But only 54-77% understand their VCRs. Why? Because a VCR is more complicated than a television. Why? Because it has more functions. The ease of using a device is, and always will be, inversely proportional to the device's functionality. We may be able to change the slope of this function slightly, but we will never be able to reverse it. A computer is not a toaster, and never will be.
DennyK
Of work, to make a buck?
Of course i love technology, and i like computers, but this has nothing to do with working, working is all about making money, linux, building computers, learning about new technologies and experimenting, thats fun.
Most jobs arent fun, most jobs are repetitive, and you say find a perfect field, there is no perfect field which pays good, musician and actor and creative fields i can say are perfect the problem would be, your chances of getting in the door is about as high as your chances of going to space, becoming a professional athelete etc.
Its a mixture of what i'm naturally good at (computers) and what i know will pay well for a long time.
As far as me learning new skill, i'm betting i know more than you do and most people who are higher level than me, its not what you know its how many degrees you have, how much certification you have etc.
I dont mind learning, I hate tests and jumping through hoops. I never said i mind learning, but i want to learn in my own way on my own terms.
The diffrence between work and play is freedom.
Being forced to go to college and study something you arent even interested in to keep your job, is not freedom, being forced to learn programming when you hate programming is not fun, that doesnt mean you hate technoloogy and computers you just happen to hate the most profitable aspect of it.
I dont really enjoy programming, i dont have the patience. However I have to survive, Computers, its all i know and i'm not going to switch careers because I dont like programming.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Attitude has nothing to do with it.
.com companies before the big collapse. He has certifications just like you do, and to top it all off he has a degree.
You can go in there confident as hell, dressed up in a suit and tie, young and ambitious.
Then the guy you are competiting with, he has a few years experience, hes older, he worked with a few
Well lets see, you are young, with no experience, no degree, and just certifications. Sorry but theres no way in hell anyone in their right mind would choose you over an experienced worker with a degree.
When you got hired at 16, there was a shortage of experienced workers, they were hiring any kid off the street.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Quite frankly, bullshit. At several of the companies I used to consult, I get calls for references to people I think could do a job they have open, experience or not. The pay will vary, but I have still gotten four such calls in the last 10 months. Hell, at Kraft Foods they have a huge job posting board. Yes, most of the jobs require experience, but not all of them. Not the entry positions. Will there be competition? Yes. So what. At the company where I work, we're still hiring, because we're still culling the herd, so to speak. People get hired, people get fired.
People like you who blame the "recession" quite frankly don't know a fucking thing about the actual state of things beyond what you see on CNN. In truth, the recession(in manufacturing, the only one to truly get hit that hard) ended at the end of last year. Did a lot of bozo's with certifications and giant-sized ego's find themselves in a hard spot? Oh yeah. Is there still opportunity, especially for the young with no children, no spouse, no responsibilities that tie them down? Yes. Do they need dicks like you discouraging them? No. Shut the fuck up, unless you want to put up some hard non-anecdotal numbers(no friend of a friend BS) and quit bringing people down with your end of the world chicken little talk. There are roads in, even now.