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Alleged eBay Hacker Goofs up and Goes to Jail
juliao writes "SecurityFocus is reporting that alleged eBay hacker Jerome Heckenkamp was jailed after his first solo court appearance."
It's pretty funny actually, stuff like challenging the indictment on the
grounds that they typed his name in all capital letters, demanding to immediately testify (even tho they were only there to schedule the trial), threatening the judge and so on. He would know better if he watched a couple episodes of Law & Order. Note that I base all court proceedings on the wisdom of Sam Watterston.
I seriously doubt anyone is stupid enough to pull those kinda tricks when their mind is clear.
If you want to be seen, stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want to be respected, sit down and shut up.
Sounds like this kid is in way over his head, and maybe watched a few too many movies.
Plus, you can tell he is a UNIX geek, since he seems to think the indictment is case sensitive.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
And this is someone who's supposed to be considered intelligent?
Randal Graves says: I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class... Especially since I rule.
Heckenkamp had been free on $50,000 bail, and living under electronic monitoring -- prohibited by court order from using cell phones, the Internet, computers, video games and fax machines.
:P
Do I really need to say more?
Ah well, he shouldn't have been so stupid I guess.
proton != antielectron
Not only is it sad that this kid was able to get rid of his council (twice) .. but he is ovbiously either REALLY moronic ..
..
:
or he is going for an insaniy plea
he did manage to menauver the judge into saying
"The comments that you are making to the court lead me to suspect that either you are playing games with the court, or you're experiencing a serious lack of judgment."
its only a hop skip and a jump from there to have the judge decide that he ALWAYS shows a lack of judgement, and its a medical condition.
he will have to take lithium forever, but at least he wont do hard time. (again)
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Note that I base all court proceedings on the wisdom of Sam Watterson.
Heathen. Michael Moriarty would lawyer the fuck out of Sam Watterson. All Watterson has going for him is hotter assistants.
It hurts when I pee.
In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
I wish the article went into more detail about this statement. I don't understand why the father feels that they are keeping him from being able to defend himself. He's getting his day in court and all. It appears to me that he's doing everything he can to screw up the trial instead of taking it seriously.
he already did .. twice
"It was the second time Heckenkamp fired his lawyers -- in January, he had a federal magistrate appoint him as his own counsel, only to change his mind the same day. "
*tries to bite back comment about READING the articles*
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Jerome Heckenkamp, aka MagicFX, also brought down a major porn site not too long ago, redirecting visitors to Disney's website.
I like his style!
More info here.
If I had a court order that I couldn't play video games, I'd probably go spastic too.
God spoke to me
Isn't Qmail open source, and Qpopper what he is talking about really?
Qmail, as I understood it, has NEVER been hacked.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Can you imagine the court reporter, trying to type out the 'leet-speak?
"1 0wn j00, y0 h0noR!!! m3 w1ll h4x0r joo and l3gAl 5y5t3mz!!!"
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
This is what happens when you take away someone's video games!
He mistook the judge for a server, and was trying to find his security holes, to sneak in and become root. It seems he didn't find any.
Nobody could be that stupid and manage to find security breaches. Come to think of it, I'm not sure someone could be that stupid and keep breathing. Well, we can only hope.
Apparently he didn't notice in all of those "made for prison TV" movies that the wrongfully convicted sorts who defend themselves successfully spend months poring over legal documents and books. It doesn't sound like he even understands the legal process from a 10,000 metre view. (which you could get by reading a newspaper)
He deserves what he gets, just for being a moron.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Jerome Heckenkamp should:
0) never be referred to as a hacker again.
0) never be allowed to open his mouth.
0) never have an article posted about him again.
0) be praised for going out in a true blaze of stupidity.
0) Cowboy Neal
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Heckenkamp said he wanted to subpoena Nadel's "client" to appear in court, and Ware asked him who, exactly, he wanted to bring into the courtroom.
:)
When Heckenkamp replied, "The United States of America," Ware ordered him taken into custody.
I think they meant at this point the judge ordered the defendant to be taken into custody, but it could equally mean he ordered the United States to be taken into custody.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
He seems to be trying to hack the court system. "Hmmm, if I feed it garbage inputs maybe it will crash and I can escape." Next he will try stealing robes in an attempt to fool the system into thinking he's a judge.
Doesn't (er, didn't) he ever read Slashdot?
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
its only a hop skip and a jump from there to have the judge decide that he ALWAYS shows a lack of judgement, and its a medical condition.
Damn, I hate it when that happens...
My comment was meant to say: if his judgement was so erratic and poor, how could he have managed to hack his way into such prominent sites? eBay and Lycos (et. al.) must be attacked quite regularly and we don't hear of them being cracked very often...
Mind you, in this kid's case, the apple may not have fallen far from the tree. His dad does not have any problem with how Jerome conducted himself in front of the judge:
In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
Dumb-asses beget dumb-asses, I suppose
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
Just to throw out a different spin on this, as everyone seems just to happy to jump on the bandwagon.
There is a good chance that he is acting out because he has realised that he is screwed. He has probably talked to his lawyers and realised that no one is really going to be able to help him.
People have posted "he'll get his day in court", but he probably already realises that on that day they will just go through the motions of convicting him.
caged animals can act funny.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
First use of "alleged" in a Slashdot post ever? Maybe the subscription plot is actually causing editors (and contributors) to act more like professionals.
Believe it or not, the names in all capital letters is one of the things that conspiracy theorists try to use. A fun read is the destroyed arguments section of the Dixieland Law Journal. That page is a conspiracy site telling other conspiracy people that they're being a little too out there. The capital letters issue is explained and debunked at a link there.
or he is going for an insaniy plea ..
Keep in mind there are two different sanity defenses:
1) being insane at the time of the act
2) being insane at the time of the trial
The first is about the defendant's state of mind when the act was committed (and is basically an admission of committing the act).
The second is about the defendant's ability to contribute to his/her own defense.
The Chewbacca Defense
"Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, my accusers would certainly want you to believe I hacked eBay, and they make a good case. But Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk who carried a gun and ran from the mob. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it. That does not make sense. Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two-foot-tall Ewoks. That does not make sense.
But more important, you have to ask yourself what does this have to do with this case. Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case. It does not make sense. Look at me. I'm a hacker defending myself and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and Gentlemen I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.
And so you have to remember when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating this case, does it make sense? No. Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit.
I know I seem guilty. But ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Now think about that for one minute. That does not make sense. Why am I talking about Chewbacca when my life is on the line? Why? I'll tell you why. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. If Chewbacca does not make sense you must acquit. Here look at the monkey , look at the silly monkey.
The defense rests."
Jerome T Heckencamp --> A KNEE JERK COMETH
Honestly, the boy is way overdue for some reality.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said."
.0001
yeah, and his clue meter is pegged at
protecting his rights? Hmm, more like killing his chances.
Sent from your iPad.
According to the Quotable Lawyer, edited by David Shrager and Elizabeth
Frost, New England Publishing Associates, Inc., 1986, p. 49, that saying is
a proverb apparently so old that its original author is not known. They
quote it as, "He that is his own lawyer has a fool for a client." They cite
Rosalind Fergusson, The Facts on File Dictionary of Proverbs, 1983.
"It's people like you that give all self-representing defendants a bad name
Sincerely,
The Montana Freemen"
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
See my comment lower down on the page. This argument was used to lose tax cases, not win them.
google cache of siliconvalley.com piece
Home-schooled than masters in CS by age 19... lots of interesting stuff.
Would have a field day with this one.
Being that I work in a building full of lawyers and judges, I can tell you that they are just people too. You can "rub them the wrong way."
It sounds to me like this kid went in with no understanding of law and wanted to control the courtroom. This WOULD rub the judge the wrong way.
I have a friend whom, when he was young, was the same way. Once he got pulled over on a traffic violation and during the course of his conversation with the patrol officer he said: "Just how stupid do you think I think you are!"
As my friend learned, when dealing with people in authority, it is better to show respect and to play by their rules. Just a truth of life.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."
Whether that's the case here is, of course, another story, but I've become increasingly distrustful of government and law "enforcement".
I am a vocal critic of abuses of state power, engage in minor civil disobedience myself (I used a deCSS-derived program to watch DVDs that I bought on a GNU/Linux computer because I neither want to spend the money on Windows® nor trust it to be spyware-free), and fully expect to wind up in prison someday for my thoughts, when I see crap like this. I can not just shut up and live a lie.
If anything should have the t's crossed and the i's dotted, it's the criminal justice process, from investigation, arrest, prosecution, to conviction. The defendants apparent folly in angering the judge does not change this.
You could've hired me.
When Heckenkamp replied, "The United States of America," Ware ordered him taken into custody.
...
Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
Right, it's the court keeping this moron from defending himself...
...and suddenly, with a flash of tearing insight, the cracker realized how all of his victims felt when he intruded into THEIR systems through a backdoor. Yes, from that day forward, he was oVVn3d. In the most terrible way possible.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Not insanity, mistrial. Either mistrial, or setting himself up for an appeal. That's the handy thing about representing yourself in court... it's almost ALWAYS grounds for a second trial provided you DON'T represent yourself the second time 'round.
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
What's the stupidest thing a person can do when placed under arrest? Not demand to talk to your lawyer or have one appointed. What's the stupidest thing you can do after that? Not allow your attorney to do his or her job.
/.ers--if you get arrested, keep your mouth shut unless you have your attorney beside you. Let them take care of everything. And no matter what, don't ever think that you can properly defend yourself in court--it's called being railroaded for a reason. This guy's about to get the maximum sentence possible when he really could have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. Dumb.
What is the very first thing that a rich, savy lawyer would do if he were arrested? Get the best darned attorney to represent him that he can afford. But why not represent himself, I mean--the accused is a lawyer, too. Well, when you're a defendant, your job is to help your attorney and keep yourself from doing stupid things like this kid has. It's your attorney's job to handle all the legal matters.
Future note to all
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
Thanks, Slashdot, for reminding me that there are millions of stupid people in this world.
There are a few people who belive that the Sixteenth Amendment was never ratified that think that your name in all caps is the name of a legal fiction. I tried to understand the thinking behind that, but it involves conspiracy theories and a general detachment from reality. They also belive that the two letter postal code abbreviations for states represent different states than the ones that you write out longhand.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Heckencamp sounds like he's read the standard tax evader propaganda. These are the people that argue in tax court that the Sixteenth Amendment (income tax) was never properly ratified, etc.
... makes an incorrect reference to this form of using all capital letters as being proper only in reference to corporate entities. This is an incorrect statement of the law and ... is illustrative of [his] continued harassing and frivolous behavior." and fined under Rule 11
A good link is http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss4.htm, which collects cases smacking down defendants who, like Heckencamp, have raised an objection to their name printed in all caps. That argument is discussed in the same breath as other winning arguments like objections to a fringe on the courtroom flag or the presence of an eagle on the flagpole.
Of particular relevance may be a relatively recent case from the 10th Circuit. Pasting from the linked document:
US v. M.L. Lindsay (10th Cir 7/1/99) _F3d_, 99 USTC para 50648, 84 AFTR2d 5102; (tax evader complained of "his name being in capital letters in a prior order issued by this Court and then
This guy deserves a big cellmate named Bubba. Who says the system doesn't work...this problem could take care of itself. After a little small-talk, I'm sure Bubba would "have his way" (in some way or another) with the poor kid.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
I know I'm just begging for trouble, but are you going to do this on every thread? It was funny the first few times, and hell, it's still funnier that "Thicke of the Night" ever was (what the hell were you thinking?), but still....
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
maybe he has some tricks up his sleave. why don't you wait to see what happens in trial before you start dishing it out. To all those that are saying that he is a hacker, perhaps you have forgotten that he has yet to be convicted. And finally, for all of you calling him stupid, let's not forget that he was employed by Los Alamos while most of you probably sit alone in mother's basement all day long dishing out hate on forums.
He would know better if he watched a couple episodes of Law & Order. Note that I base all court proceedings on the wisdom of Sam Watterson.
Maybe he's been watching Ally McBeal. That would make more sense. They once sued God, who is only slightly easier to get into court than the United States of America.
----------
I am an expert in electricity. My father held the chair of applied electricity at the state prision.
And if that doesn't bring down the system, nothing will, dammit. Go, free radical, go! ;)
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
I think we'd all agree that:
...are all excellent ways to piss off a judge and screw up your shot at freedom.
1. Belittling the justice system
2. Nitpicking
3. Trying to do a pathetic end-run around procedure
If this guy keeps it up, he will provide us with many hours of hilarity. Plus, he makes me feel good about me.
What sterling proof that "technically proficient" and "dumb as a stick" are perfectly compatible traits.
I wish I had a tape of that day. *cringe*
Judges have a LOT of power, particularly at the high levels.
It is simply not possible for them to pay back the amount of damage they are capable of doing.
I think that ideally a good ethical judge probaly has it hard enough making legal (hopefully fair and just) judgements without the additional fear that someone is going to feel differently and punish him for it.
How many times has a multi judge panel had a dissenting opinion? Would you want the dissenting judges to be punished for it?
And, while some systems are more susceptible to corruption than others, it is ultimately people that have to be held accountable for what they do... ALL people.
Also, please do not cheer me, for my efforts are nothing without others doing as I do.
You could've hired me.
Wrong generation. My parent's watched Matlock. I watch Law & Order.
There's no end to the discussions on slashdot vis-a-vis the ridiculousness of the justice system attempting to regulate the computer industry without any clear understanding of how computers work. There's a good lesson in there. Computer-folk ought to at least allow that attorneys -- while incompetent at the keyboard -- know what they're doing in the courtroom.
Just because you're a brilliant programmer, it doesn't mean you'll be a brilliant defense attorney. The years spent getting a JD, passing the bar and working as a lawyer have to count for something.
Like any other situation in life where someone else holds your future in their hands, the key to it all is playing by their rules. Sure, you feel like a dweeb sucking up to some Judge for fifteen miniutes, but when those fifteen are up, you can go back to acting like an asshole, or a saint, or even (god forbid) somewhere in between. I'm sure this kid had his girfriend/friends/whoever out in the gallery, and he was just trying to act the badass so as to impress her/him/them. Didn't quite work out. One other thing that comes to mind . . . This is a kid we're talking about here, no? His Father sounds like he's doing his best to get this kid convicted. Never go to court without a lawyer. Keep your mouth shut except to say yessir or nosir. And play the game. It beats getting it in the rear for three or four years from some guy named Bubba. .
I hate the fucking system, But the system loves fucking me.
In my mind, his actions make it all the more likely he is guilty.
These actions just cry out, "i @M 1337! i \/\/i11 0n><0r j00 1@\/\/3rz! i \/\/i11 h@><0r D 13@g@1 5y573m!"
And that is exactly the sort of attitude that somebody who would have done what he is accused of would have to have.
The 0th rule of law - "DON'T PISS OFF THE JUDGE"
The 1st rule of law - "A man who represents himself has a fool for a client".
www.eFax.com are spammers
He only proves the one thing many people here know, that most hackers are idiots.
Hollywood is who convinces the public otherwise, showing hackers to be... computer experts, spyware experts, banking experts, encryption experts, wear designer clothing, able to run a 4second 40yard dash, and swoon woman like the latest Hollywood star.
The rest of know that most people who hack do so because they don't have the attention span to hold down real jobs, don't have the skills to interact with a team of people on a face to face basis, and couldn't get a date unless they had money.
Then again, maybe Hollywood is right, and only the dumb ones get caught.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Yes, that was silly.
Also silly.
Stop. Threatening? Suggesting that a judge be liable for his actions is somehow a threat? I never understood this line of reasoning. So, if I say, "If you try to kill me, I will defend myself?" threatens you? (taking the reasoning to the extreme).
It's sad when justified cynicism is not recognized for being lost in the noise of arrogant folly. The feeling I get is that the defendant has lost all faith in the justice system and is mocking it.
You could've hired me.
In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
What an idiot. My first thought was, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Maybe if he doesn't retain a lawyer by then I'll go watch... it could be funny.
"An idiot who represents himself has an idiot for a..." wait...
=tkk
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
Don't piss off Federal Judges. Municipal judges, maybe. State court judges, work real hard to be nice to 'em. Federal Judges - um, pretend they're God and remember you aren't.
Federal Judges are appointed by the President and approved by the senate. We have a lot of unfilled judgeships because it takes so long to put through the appointments. Congress, the President, the Supremes, the FBI, INS, and basically The Entire Federal Bureaucracy know many of their names personally and like to be in their good graces. They Get Things Done and they Dispense Justice to BAD GUYS.
I know, they probably eat cheesburgers and fart like the rest of us, but it's a very BAD thing to piss them off. These kind of courtroom stunts will get you put in small rooms with Bad Guys and your anatomy will never be the same.
"Don't play games with these guys! They can lock you up in a room and throw away the Room!" -Lithgow in 'Manhattan Project'.
Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!
Only the stupid thieves and criminals get caught.
and this one is an example of stupidity.
Nothing really to see here other than an idiot getting a good whipping.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Obviously not. Witness the modern-day U.S.A., with it's anti-"terrorist" jihad. The government, as mandated by the constition, had decent safeguards to limit concentration of power to deter corruption. It just took some 200+ years for all the powers that were to collude.
As for the Ford Pinto: this was an example of negligence, not necessarily evil. I stand by my assertion that "systems", not being conscious beings can't be evil, only people can.
You could've hired me.
I did 1 1/2 years ago, and I'm planning on fulfilling that threat in about 18 1/2 (bail time, baby!)
You, sir, are insane.
Either that, or I've just been trolled -- in which case, Congratulations.
I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
I'd think that frivolous lawsuit recognition would put a stop to the infinite progression you propose.
You could've hired me.
... that there are seven versions of every story in court.
And the only one that actually matters:
You know why judges find people guilty of contempt of court? It's because they can. If you or I could lock people up for contempt of us we'd need a heck of a lot more prisons. Dumb doesn't begin to sum this guy up. Perhaps he's trying to cop a diminished responsibility plea, or perhaps he genuinely doesn't understand that you don't kick the biggest kid in school in the pants then start reading the constitution at him.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
To quote from the article:
:).
In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
I think this commentary speaks volumes about why this kid is there in the first place. Btw, yes, he's 22, and I say "kid" because he's acting like a child. But anyhow, if your child is acting like a tremendous idiot in the courtroom and your instinct is to criticize the court, you may have to accept that you are part of the problem. I'm not going to sit here and suggest that somehow this kid is blameless because his dad
is apparently an idiot. Just pointing out that Darwinian evolution should smite this particular mutation fast
I'm just hoping that we aren't going to get some stupid campaign trying to fight for this kids rights as though he's some hero of the Internet.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
In a telephone interview after the appearance, Heckenkamp's father, Thomas Heckenkamp, said his son is only trying to protect his rights . "They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he said.
I wonder if I'm the only one who would have said "I have no idea when my son turned into such a moron. I bet the little bastard is on drugs."
I mean -- seriously -- I know you're supposed to stand up for your children and all that, but this kid's father is an idiot. They've "overstepped their bounds" by arresting your son for illegal activities? The judge has been quite patient with the kid, it seems, considering that contempt of court hasn't been added to the list of charges. Makes you wonder how good of a father the guy is.
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Stoner!
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
Uhh, yes we're laughing at him. And now we're laughing at you.
From http://www.adl.org/mwd/suss4.htm:
Trivia: that fact about Darrow was cited to the Supreme Court when it was considering the idea that defendents have a legel right to have a lawyer appointed and paid for on their behalf if they can't afford one themselves.
-Miko
Miko O'Sullivan
http://cr.yp.to/qmail/guarantee.html
This message has been scanned for memes and dangerous content by MindScanner, and is believed to be unclean.
Why did the judge order him to stay away from cell phones, and fax machines? How is someone going to hack with a cell phone or fax?
d -walk-away trick. I suppose if I look at it in the eyes of the law, it's another form of DOS attack, but it's so throughly artless that nobody except a 13 year-old script kiddie would get any joy from it.
Does anybody know if this is a standard "one size fits all" restriction in cases involving computer tresspass?
One could theoretically commit billing fraud with a cell phone. Faxes I'm a little stumped. There's the old put-in-a-loop-of-black-paper-dial-a-fax-number-an
j.
Indeed this is something interesting. All caps signifies a business, and in this case it is not a business but a person, unless of course the court system has created a business out of him and is Doing Busines As him through Social Security and that type of thing.
Oh - one other thing - it arguably was on topic. It was a direct reply to a direct reply that was itself on topic.
I'm always bemused at worthless moderating.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
This person is very smart. He even completed collage at 18. Why would such an intellegent person act like this suddenly snap? He MUST have played violent video games when he was a teenager.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
IANAP (I am not a psychiatrist) but Mr. Heckenkamp sounds like he is a schizophrenic, or like he is playing to sound like one. He is about the right age (22) for this disorder to become apparent. His intelligence and criminal behavior also fit the common model for schizophrenia.
"Crusade" would be far too noble a word to describe the struggles of an often-abusive government.
You could've hired me.
I *did* read the article.
My point was that the court can appoint a lawyer to defend him even if he doesn't want it; if a defendant proves himself incapable of defending himself (as this guy seems to be) then the court can refuse to allow him to represent himself.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
This guy graduated from the UW at age 18. IIRC, he was a TA for the CS department too. Smart guy. Perhaps it's a testament to their CS departments ability to graduate talented CS students, but perhaps they should also require a law class in the curriculum.
Are you guys making this a humour site?
Working for a large company at the time they had all sorts of tests applicants had to go through. Apparently, he didn't score well enough on the tests for my bosses liking because despite my recommendation he didn't get the job.
I guess I'm kind of glad he didn't get the job.
The impediments put in place by the Constitution delayed the process, but still resulted in a powerful, albeit somewhat distributed government, that was ripe for corruption. I don't think that good government is enough to avoid such inevitabilities.
Perhaps even greater distribution of powers would, as you write, make government service unappealing to the corruptable, but this can lead to unacceptable latency when responding to a sudden threat (though I don't particularly buy that argument: if the threat is real, I'd expect rapid agreement of the state of emergency, and execution of strategic responses planned in advance). However, such decentralization would require a far more responsible and participatory electorate. I fear that the American public has been dumbed down too much for too long for that to happen.
You could've hired me.
Court rooms, by law (fair and speedy public trial, so really constitution) are open the the public except in extreem cases. It is the responsibility of every american to attend court once in a while to see how the judges are doing, and how court works.
I took a Canadian to a court one time to watch. (we had spend all morning walking, and the nearby court was a good place to sit down, not to mention educational). I recall some interesting lessions.
One guy was sentenced to 7 days in jail for some offense. His lawyer spoke up and said "He now has a job, and so we would prefer his sentence be on weekends or overnight so he can work. The judge then arranged for the guy to report to jail at 6:00 friday night, and leave monday morning at 6:00. This counts as 4 days. As the judge was considering how to deal with the next 3 days, the lawyer said He was arrested at night, but couldn't make bail until morning. The judge looked that up, and said there is no point in one day in jail, I'll suspend one day for a year, if you have no further trouble that will go off your record. As they were leaving the judge turned to that guy and said something I'll remember for a long time
.Comment removed based on user account deletion
I only read at +2, but it looked like everyone kinda missed the fact that JAIL SUCKS! I had the mis-opportunity to spend 2 months in that fun-fun place, and someone should try to impress on this jackass kid that jail is no fun, no freedom, and will suck the soul out of you.
Sorry for the rant- reformed idiots are like reformed smokers!
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Stop Prisoner Rape
The U.S. Constitution was good, but not good enough. For one thing, those in the service of the public at large, should be held to higher ethical standards than usual, precisely because they affect the lives of so many. Abuse of that public trust, should be met with the harshest penalty. AFAIK, there is no notion of "high" treason within the U.S. legal framework that would allow for this.
You could've hired me.
'hacked lycos' 'hacked ebay'....
what exactlly did he do? find? he didn't get my max-bids did he?!?!
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
I have to say I like McCoy as a character myself. As a lawyer... I think they've made him into the sort of DA that people would despise if he was a criminal lawyer, and I'm not sure an episode where he gets spanked for prosecutorial misconduct isn't overdue.
It's a great show, though; bring back Carey Lowell whimper whimper...
/Brian
What I find hilarious about tax protestors is that they keep fighting even though pretty much every one of their arguments have been declared de jure bullshit (not just de facto). This kid does remind me of them.
/Brian
The computer whiz then asked the court
Per dictionary.com:
Wiz - A person considered exceptionally gifted or skilled.
Whiz - To urinate.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Working for a national non-profit organization that advocates for the mentally ill for six years has given me some extra insights into how people behave when they develop a serious mental illness, go off their meds, are having a crisis, etc. No, IANAP (I Am Not a Psychiatrist), but I've seen enough folks at our annual convention wobbling off their meds to know this kid is in trouble. Classic, classic signs of serious mental illness. I only hope he gets help while he's in jail. You just can't imagine what it's like to watch a brilliant person's brain rot away.
AMCGLTD.COM. Where cats, science fictio
Just entering his name into the Justice computer would have rendered a judgement of 'not guilty'
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
They should be punished for honest mistakes? Why? What good would that do? wouldn't it make (at least some of them) attempt to hide any mistakes that they might later realize?
Oh, and do you know anyone that never makes any mistakes at their job?
I'm ok with punishing people for abuse of power, or for gross incompetence, or fraud, but an honest mistake? Everyone makes those, and it strikes me as a bad idea to heap additional punishments on top of whatever damage the mistake did.
Usually when a computer enthusiast is ridiculed in the media, most people on Slashdot rush to defend them. Why is it different this time?
Becase, bluntly put, this guy is an idiot.
Mitnick got railroaded. But he kept his head, and didn't look like a moron.
Sklyarov got busted for breaking an immoral law, of which he was innocent.
This guy is a moron. He ditched one of the finest lawyers he could get, because she didn't "get it"
if I was innocent and my lawyer told me to plead guilty or go to jail, I'd start looking for new representation too.
Yeah, and what if you're guilty?
The lawyer basically said "they have you dead to rights - there is no way you can win this." He should have 'fessed up, instead of acting like a moron (trying to get out on a technicality - which is really an urban myth - qualifies him as a moron.)
Honest mistakes need to be corrected, espescially in judicial matters. Those that make them need to redress their wrongs, and this is, indeed punishing, as it implies imposition of a hardship.
You could've hired me.
Uh, please go read up a little bit more.
I think you would be very hard pressed to find a murder conviction go anywhere near the 5 year mark. 7 maybe, on a Murder 3 count but today that would be hard pressed. Manslaughter on the other hand...
We're not taking his life away either, he's being punished for his actions. He is still perfectly free to live and breath, just inside bars. His choice, he made the choice to do the crime so I have no pity for him when he is getting raped by a bald guy named Bubba while security guards cheer in the background.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
hawk, esq.
For those of you who would rather not click through:
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:
Although the website has more info.
P.S. funny how that brief view of ODD describes alot of slashdot users! hahaha...smile, it's a joke
The police had trouble with them during interrogation. They knew that they'd collected $80,000, and they each got $7,000 after an equal six way split. . .
so, yes, there are people this stupid. There is no lower bound to human intelligence.
hawk, esq.
is it just me - or isnt it really ironic that the Judge's last name is Ware?
in that - Warez decision puts Hackers away!
Maybe, but let's start with personal responsibility here. If you have someone who obviously refuses to take even minimal steps to save his own ass from the pokey(!), why shouldn't he be abused for his obviously self-destructive tendencies? I tend to think he's going to deserve exactly what he gets, in the same way that someone who pours a gallon of gas on themselves and then starts striking matches deserves exactly what they're going to get - the consequences of both sets of actions are entirely foreseeable.
In the case of this ass-clown, the consequences that he is increasingly likely to suffer were previously either wholly avoidable, or at least could have been lessened. Instead, he is going out of his way to worsen them. Since most of us don't care to take on the task of saving all the world's morons from themselves, I think the tendency to note natural selection in action is a reasonable one...
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
In federal court, you do not want to go to trial and be found guilty. The U.S. Sentencing Guidelines practically ensure that you will get a longer sentence if you go to trial (no 2- or 3- level reduction for "acceptance of responsibility" and possible 2-level enhancement for "obstruction of justice" if you testify and the judge decides that you lied on the stand, as a starting point). You are better off pleading to the original charge (even if no reduced charge is available) than being found guilty. A lawyer who doesn't urge a clearly guilty defendant to plead is not doing her job, especially in a federal criminal case, and some lawyers have been found constitutionally ineffective when a client receives a long sentence following trial having rejected a plea offer (see Boria v. Keane in the Second Circuit; sorry, don't have a cite).
This is a kid we're talking about here, no?
Well, no we are not talking about a kid, we are talking about an adult.
When I was 23 I was both a business owner and an Air Defense Platoon Leader in the Army National Guard. Shortly thereafter I became an Aviator. Prior to that I was an Armor Officer, was actually an acting Tank Platoon Leader at the age of 19 (while I was an R.O.T.C. Cadet AND in a NAtional Guard unit). At 17 I was a Tank Crewman AND a highschool student.
Whenever folks try to say someone in their 20s is "just young" or "a kid" it really rubs me the wrong way, like this case and in the "Talinban John" case. Yes, I jokingly speak of people in their 20s as "kids" but I do expect them to take responsibility as adults.
BTW, I am 40 now. Yes I know more, but I was expected to act like an adult when I was in my teens and I expect the current crop of teens to do the same.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
You have the right to refuse counsel; but your right to a fair trial takes priority. If the court decides that you won't get a fair trial if you represent yourself, they can insist that you have legal representation.
Usually this motion is put forward by the prosecuting attorneys, since the last thing any prosecutor wants is to win a case only to see it overturned because the defendant didn't get a fair trial.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I hope your chains rest lightly upon you.
You could've hired me.
As my friend learned, when dealing with people in authority, it is better to show respect and to play by their rules. Just a truth of life.
Ahh, the United Police States of America. Glad to see that the rich and powerful have taken full control over there...
deus does not exist but if he does
... who's Bubba, anyway????
Only in the sense that it is a systemic attempt to curtail corrupt people. If people weren't corrupt or corruptable, there would be no need for such systemic safeguards. Furthermore, no system can safeguard anything if there aren't individuals who hold the principles the system is designed to protect dear enough to risk their lives for them.
You could've hired me.
This kid could have done better with a /. legal team!
(No offense, Hawk, esq.)
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
So, you point out an admittedly overdramatic, ironic exception that's been overblown by the media to make your point?
You're right. I could use the same logic against drunk driving laws. And I do. Why should someone who drives drunk be arrested, when there's a lot of people who drive worrse sober! Ever been to New York or Florida lately?
You also could use your logic against concealed permit laws. And against people driving in general. And against sheep.
Unfortunately, and perhaps not surprisingly, I can't find any reliable statistics on street racing and deaths to others not involved in the action (eg., not participants or spectators), but I doubt that it's very significant. As for drunk driving, you're more likely to be killed by yourself or a sober driver than a drunk one. Not to mention that there are usually multiple factors leading to a traffic death, yet if alcohol (or, lately, a handheld cell phone) is present, it will be listed on the alcohol side of the charts (note the wording "alcohol figures into", not "alcohol the leading contributor").
What about chemical castration? I don't know much about how it works, so there could be a good medical reason why it's not feasible. But if there weren't, I'd certainly consent to it if it meant I'd be put in a wing for prisoners who had also consented to it.
Maybe that's why I'm not in prison.
"They've overstepped their bounds, and they're keeping him from defending himself," he [the father] said.
Assuming that the kid doesn't have access to the materials he will undoubtedly need to prepare his own defense - the Father has a very valid point.
I'm a 2000 man.
maybe watched a few too many movies
He seems to be emulating the portrayal of Abbie Hoffman in "Steal This Movie".
I'm a 2000 man.
Castration doesn't prevent rape. A castrated attacker just won't be able to get you pregnant.
Rape is NOT A SEXUAL RESPONSE. It is about domination, and sadism, and inflicting pain on someone that cannot fight back. Rape is about breaking a spirit. It is about humiliation. Agony. Suffering.
You can cut a man's balls off, or chemically neuter him. That man can still rape you with a broom handle, or his hands. He can make you service him in any number of ways even if he can't get an erection.
What you'd get in your castrato wing would be what I described, plus beatings and intimidation.
Castration makes people feel safer, but that's it. Nothing would change. The problem is that men in a cage, and women too, get feral, especially when there is no supervision, or the guards participate by ignoring calls for help.
The sick thing is that Americans watch shows like Oz and actually think prison rape is cool. It's joked about. Used as a threat by prosecutors . It's hardly an open secret that America lets rape happen in its prison as a sort of titillating bonus punishment.
Interestingly enough, I don't think young children should be playing anywhere near the street. If they're not old/mature enough to avoid getting hit by cars, then they should be in a backyard or park area.
I understand your concern and pray that nothing unfortunate happens....I have no problem with legitimate concerns of safety. Speed in residential areas should be regulated (contrary to my previous post). Highway speeds, however, are a different issue.