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Ground Effect Flying Boat

Stalke writes "A company called Flightship has produced the worlds first commercial flying boat that operates on the principle of ground-effect. I first saw these types of craft on TLC when they showed a huge soviet landing craft based upon the same principle. The first commercial version of this craft has a capacity of only 6 passengers, but a larger version called the Dragon Clipper will seat 40! Check out the videos on the site, this thing really is a sight to see."

182 comments

  1. FAA? by doubtless · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If this gets to the stetes, would it be under the FAA? Will the pilot be required to have an aircraft pilot's license? The article is short on details, I was just curious if anybody has an answer.

    --
    geek page at KY speaks
    1. Re:FAA? by ceejayoz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If this gets to the stetes, would it be under the FAA? Will the pilot be required to have an aircraft pilot's license?

      Doubtful - it's more like a hydrofoil or a hovercraft, doesn't go more than a few feet off the water.

    2. Re:FAA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When hovercrafts were introduced to the UK military, there was a lot of argument about whether they should be controlled by the Navy or RAF. Political of course, but they go so much faster than boats that the skills required are possibly more like a pilot's than a sailors... anyway AFAIK commercial hovercraft pilots in the UK still need a private pilot's license! Can anyone correct me on this?

    3. Re:FAA? by spike+hay · · Score: 3

      I don't know why we haven't developed the WIG (Wing in Ground) effect vehicles more. They are faster and more fuel efficient than hovercrafts. WIGs,travelling 300 mph, can fill in the middle ground between planes and ships.

      The Russian ekranoplan was the largest WIG ever built. It could seat 1000 troops. WIGs could ever.

      For those not in the know, a WIG is very simple. They fly close to the ground and take advantage of an air cushion created by the compression of air between the plane's wing and ground. Birds use the wing in ground effect all the time. That's why you always see birds fly just above the surface of a lake. Also, landing planes can sometimes experience the WIG effect also.

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    4. Re:FAA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well i don't think they've ever been operated commercially in the US, but they have been flown here, and no, you don't need a pilot's license because it's a "boat." these things are really scary as they can go quite fast and many feet above the water.

    5. Re:FAA? by emok · · Score: 1

      From http://home.mira.net/~radacorp/ground_effect.html:

      From a regulatory point of view, the maximum Ground Effect height is seen as the service ceiling (the height above which the craft will not sustain flight under its own power). If the craft can operate full time above this height, it legally becomes an aeroplane and must meet all of the associated regulations. As examples of this, Radacraft G-35 with a wingspan of 6.5 metres and has a service ceiling of 9 metres (30 feet) approximately. The C-850 has a projected wingspan of 8.5 metres; it's service ceiling therefore will be 12 metres (40 feet) approximately.

    6. Re:FAA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Landing airplanes always experience ground effect, and hovercraft do not use ground effect. Ground effect requires a lifting surface, and hovercraft just push air into a cusion.

    7. Re:FAA? by chamenos · · Score: 1

      About hovercraft in the military, if i'm not wrong they're use mostly for transport, because they're just too damn noisy, and consume too much fuel. That's probably why you don't see many militaries having hovercraft in their arsenal, if the extra speed was really such a big plus when compared to its disadvantages.

      The Singapore military or coast guard (sorry I forgot) has some in their inventory, and most of the time you can hear them coming before you actually see them. Definitely not a stealth ship of any sort :)

  2. Re:Flightship - slashdotted already ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope. I got to the site fine. Your connection sux.

  3. Re:Flightship - slashdotted already ? by drimmeeper · · Score: 1

    yup! not even four posts, and it down.

  4. The Physics of the matter... by _bobs.pizza_ · · Score: 3, Informative

    flightship.net/technology has information on how this thing works...

    Any additional info on why it works would be good to read.

    1. Re:The Physics of the matter... by PeterT · · Score: 1

      Google for 'Wing in Ground Effect', There's a ton of stuff available. It's pretty old technology, and at the prices these guys are charging, I don't think it will be too successful. I don't know if there are any kits available for 'wig's, but there are plans available for the homebuilder. The major problem with these things is the extreme difference in ground speed between them and surface ships. Since there are very few highways laid out on the water, and sail craft would have the right of way, you would be hard put to find a place to make them practical. They are only able to handle 6 foot waves, would eliminate real open water use. Perhaps in the Caribean, or similar waters.

    2. Re:The Physics of the matter... by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ok this explanation may be too siplistic, or just wrong but thats how i always explained this to myself:

      It works because there is high pressure air between the ground (water) and the wing that pushes the plane up, just like it would if it were a hovercraft.

      But while hovercrafts use fans to compress that air and keep it under pressure with skirts, the ground effect crafts use their speed and the shape of their wings to compress air under them.

    3. Re:The Physics of the matter... by spike+hay · · Score: 2

      It's pretty old technology, and at the prices these guys are charging, I don't think it will be too successful.

      Yeah. The aerodynamics for these things are already known. Development shouldn't cost too much. They are just underpowered planes that can't fly out of ground effect.

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
    4. Re:The Physics of the matter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ground effect isn't the high pressure air, it's when the ground interfers with the vortex generation on the wing tips, allowing the wing to produce lift where the vortex previously killed it, as well as restricting the downward deflection of air coming off the wing, which reduces induced drag and allows the same amount of power to produce more lift.

  5. Re:Flightship - slashdotted already ? by drimmeeper · · Score: 1

    hit reload!

  6. Wham! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Now that, friends, is one puny server.

    I hope their boats don't crash as easily as their website, huh? :)

    1. Re:Wham! by ceejayoz · · Score: 1

      It's probably run out of someone's home on PWS, lol.

  7. gratuitious karma whoring by Wakkow · · Score: 3, Informative

    What is ground effect, you ask? Karma Whore to the rescue!

    From the company (might be slashdotted sooner or later)
    A good site
    More info, no pics.

    1. Re:gratuitious karma whoring by Aceticon · · Score: 1


      gratuitious karma whoring (Score:2)
      by Wakkow on Saturday May 04, @09:39AM (#3461996)
      (User #52585 Info | http://trigeek.net/)

      What is ground effect, you ask? Karma Whore to the rescue!

      I've spent the last 10 minutes trying to convert Wakkow to Karma Whore but just couldn't do it - i've even tried a couple of other languages ("Puta de Karma", "Putain De Karma", "Karma Dirne") but to no avail.

      So ... what's the secret?

    2. Re:gratuitious karma whoring by Wakkow · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'm not -really- a karma whore... I just pretend I am sometimes.

  8. Fulltext of article copied below by Saturn49 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Sunland ventures in to sea/air transport.

    By Mohamed Ali

    Sunland Group of Companies is introducing a totally new transport vessel called Flightship to the Maldives at the end of this year. Flightship, as the name denotes, is a combination of a flight and a ship! Flightship is a Singapore/Australian shipbuilder specialising in the design and manufacture of ultra-high speed marine craft.

    There are two sizes of these vessels, one with a capacity of six passengers and the other with a capacity of 40 passengers. The Flightship FS8 is a craft that carries 6 passengers and luggage (plus 2 crew) in total safety and quiet comfort, at speeds up to 85 knots. After only a short taxi on the water to build up air pressure under the manta-ray-shaped craft, the FS8 gently lifts itself up to 3.5 metres above the tops of waves and flies away.

    At a press briefing organised by Sunland, the members of the media were told that the FS8 is technically known as a Wing in Ground Effect craft (WIG). It is the same principle as hovercraft but the height of a Flightship above waves is much greater and less engine power is needed. The FS8 vessels are very much cheaper and safer to operate than an aircraft and certainly faster and quieter than a hovercraft. Ocean conditions of up to 2-metre waves would not affect the perfectly flat ride of these craft, said Sunland.

    Sunland Group's Managing Director, Shabeer Ahmed, said that the Flightships that Sunland is introducing to the Maldives towards the end of this year would have only a six-passenger capacity and therefore would not be viable for wider use. He said that the FS8 model aircraft would be first used to transfer tourists to Sunland's resort islands during the peak season of the year. Shabeer said that only when the company gets the FS40 aircraft, which has a 40-passenger capacity within two to three years, would it be able to use the crafts on a wider scale.

    "Since the FS8 model aircraft is something altogether new to Maldives, we are bringing them on a trial basis," Shabeer said. Sunland is getting four of these Flightships, which travel three meters above water. The company will be spending US$ 3.2 million on the acquisition of these four aircraft. Each Flightship costs about US$ 800,000. A Flightship with a capacity of 40-passengers would cost US$ 5 million.

    After the trail period, where Sunland would sue the first four Flightships (each with a capacity of only six passengers, to carry tourists to and from Sunland's resorts; the company hopes to invest a further five million dollars to get bigger Flightships with a capacity of 40 passengers. This would enable Sunland to open the Flightships for passengers and tourists from other resorts and even for locals. The potential for Flightships to expand to various corners of the country is immense, both as a mode of transport for tourists and that for locals. In a country with a population fragmented by the seas, Maldives stands to gain a lot if the trials of Sunland's Flightships turn out to be successful. In such a scenario, one would not be surprised if the Flightships of Sunland were to successfully compete with seaplane carriers such as Maldivian Air Taxi and Trans Maldivian Airways. @

    1. Re:Fulltext of article copied below by jx100 · · Score: 0, Troll
      By Mohamed Ali


      I wasn't aware that the boxer wrote articles...
  9. Ground efect boats already 'comercialy' available by barberio · · Score: 4, Informative

    There have been WIGs for 'comercial sale', on a per customer design and build scale. Some companies such as Airfoil have standard designs for airfoil types and construct them for sale.

    At the moment Flightship dont apear to be offering anything for imediate sale. And you have to register with them just to get a sales inquiry aplication form.

    At the moment, I'm going to class Flightship as intresting vapourware.

  10. A good site on how ground effect works by Saturn49 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a good site on how the ground effect works: Ground Effect

  11. WGI vehicles by Elaine_r · · Score: 3, Informative
    These things have been around for years see here dataing back to around 1920 or so, but have never really become commercially viable at least not for mass transportation. and usually are aimed at people (with a fair amount of money) who have to travel relativly larg distances witha a small amount of cargo or passengers where conventional aircraft cannot be used.
    (they have been used to go over land as well - deserts or anywhere large and relativly flat.)

    I do wonder about the site though it does seem odd to have comments like
    " ...Since the current tends to drag scuba divers at the end of the dive out to the open water, each team should take along a parachute. It is only in this manner that the crew of the boat can be certain of finding lost divers. "

    now to me that doesn't sound to promotional. Elaine R.

    1. Re:WGI vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and usually are aimed at people (with a fair amount of money) who have to travel relativly larg distances witha a small amount of cargo or passengers where conventional aircraft cannot be used.

      Really? Expect some nice gentlemen in Colombia to place an order for 1000 of them.

    2. Re:WGI vehicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm..large flat surfaces.
      Sounds like we're going to have to add a new division for land speed records. Would an over powered craft break out of ground effect or does the design lock the distance to the ground?

  12. What happens in a storm. by Iberian · · Score: 1

    What happens if on a calm summers eve a freak storm arises. Now the waves are a staggering 3 meters. We all swim back or what.

    1. Re:What happens in a storm. by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2

      those things are fast enough to avoid storms.

    2. Re:What happens in a storm. by Elaine_r · · Score: 1
      This particular vehicle relying on the wind ground effect would probably have to sit out the storm until the waves are under 2m, but thats the way it is designed.

      There are others which can cope temperarily with bigger disturbances with the ground effect (but gets very bumpy) then,

      there are also vehicles which are effectivly planes which can make use of the wind ground effect (because it has alot of advantages, such as energy efficient (not so obvious to radar)) which when it get too bumpy i.e. no ground effect, they revert to normal flight.

      Elaine R.

    3. Re:What happens in a storm. by blufive · · Score: 1
      Now the waves are a staggering 3 meters.
      The "Ground Effect" seriously kicks in at about 1/2 the aircraft's wingspan above the water. So small WIG vehicles have to fly close to the surface and therefore require a pretty flat surface (unless you want to feel like a stone being skipped across a pond, anyhow). Bigger vehicles can fly higher, and are less fazed by things like waves.
    4. Re:What happens in a storm. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2
      Many years ago, I took a hovercraft across the English channel in very choppy conditions. IIRC, it was so bad that day that normal ferries had to stay in port.

      I wouldn't want to repeat that experience. The trip was like a bad 90-minute carnival ride. This huge machine was plowing straight into towering waves at something like 50mph. My girlfriend had to work very hard to retain the contents of her stomach.

      As bad as that was, the hovercraft had the advantage of a huge rubber skirt to absorb the impacts. I'm sure there's no way an aircraft could handle the same conditions.

    5. Re:What happens in a storm. by dublin · · Score: 2

      You might have noticed (had you read the flightship pages) that one curious thing is that they describe it as for "tropical" locations. I suspect that's specifically to avoid the high waves you commmonly find in and around North Sea and English Channel, for instance. This would work well in the predominantly calm tropical waters. (And, FWIW, big storms interfere with shipping schedules, too, so what's the difference? Higher speed and modern satellite weather info should pretty much eliminate all significant surprises to any reasonably prudent flightship master.)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  13. These guys' laywers work fast by reo_kingu · · Score: 2, Funny

    From the article:
    After the trail period, where Sunland would sue the first four Flightships
    They just bought the boats and they're already seeking litigation. tsk

  14. What is Ground Effect by Grey+Brick · · Score: 1
  15. Uses? by neksys · · Score: 1

    I still don't see any real advantage of this design since I first heard about it. I can see its potential over, say, arctic snow fields, or over hard-packed desert, where conventional vehicles may encounter trouble, but low-level flight over water? What's the trouble with good old boats?

    I suspect that the primary use for this is simply to set new records - The Worlds Fastest Ground Effect Vehicle and the like. Commercially... well, I don't know about you, but as someone who enjoys spending time on the open water, I don't know if I want a bunch of pseudo-aircraft zipping all over the place - the water is an inherently "slow" transportation medium, and there are just too many accidents as is with traditional watercraft, without any rich fool flying along at just the right height to decapitate me and my passengers.

    1. Re:Uses? by blufive · · Score: 2, Interesting
      low-level flight over water? What's the trouble with good old boats?
      Speed. A fast ship does about 30-40 knots, a big Wing In Ground Effect vehicle can do 300+. While carrying a coupla hundred tons of cargo. It's kind of a mid-way point between a cargo ship and air freight. Whether such things are commercially viable given the incredible conservatism of the world's aviation industry is another matter entirely.
      The Worlds Fastest Ground Effect Vehicle
      At the 85 knots quoted in the article, it's still a loooong way short of the old soviet Ekranoplans (the 550 ton KM model did 500 km/h - about 300 mph )
      I still don't see any real advantage of this design since I first heard about it.
      The soviet military wanted to use them as landing craft. Think about it. One vehicle, that can carry two main battle tanks and a few dozen troops, at 300 mph, across a few hundred miles of water. A few dozen of them, and presto! instant amphibious assault force.
    2. Re:Uses? by perky · · Score: 1

      Faster than a boat, cheaper than a plane.

      --
      "The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
    3. Re:Uses? by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but low-level flight over water? What's the trouble with good old boats?

      WIGs are a lot faster than boats. Very useful if you are shipping perishable cargo. Or how about transporting passengers or livestock, where you also need to carry food and water for the journey?

      I suspect that the primary use for this is simply to set new records - The Worlds Fastest Ground Effect Vehicle and the like. Commercially... well, I don't know about you, but as someone who enjoys spending time on the open water, I don't know if I want a bunch of pseudo-aircraft zipping all over the place - the water is an inherently "slow" transportation medium,

      If water is inherently for slow transportation then why do ships like the Stenna Discovery exist. Let alone such things as powerboat racing?

    4. Re:Uses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the main advantage is what you get for "free". Traveling over water is best done without touching it :) Friction from air is a problem at moderate speeds, but friction through water is a problem at ANY speed. Because of the ground effect, one isn't spending large fuel resources to keep thing in the air - it makes it's own cusion as it goes, hence, "free". You get the same for less, which is good for the environment also...

      Other advantages are speed, of course, smooth-ness (no more sea sickness) and saftey. Being faster is a good thing, especially if trying to outrun a storm. As a last resort, the craft can always sit back down on the water like a boat.

      The questions should be, "what are the disavantages?"

      And now let me a add a quote in the spirit of Popular Science:

      In the near future, we will ALL be using larger versions capable of seating thousands, traveling the oceans at near supersonic speeds!

  16. Something fishy by jacobb · · Score: 1
    "It is the same principle as hovercraft but the height of a Flightship above waves is much greater and less engine power is needed" [from page]


    Hrmmm.... um, well, maybe, but if so, the main picture on the featured site is NOT what the site is talking about.

    A hovercraft has a plenum chamber, i.e. a cushion of air created by a vacuum or fan blowing DOWN into an enclosed, flexible area, usually called the "skirt". See this picture or these for the typical setup.

    What this seems to be is simply an airplane without landing gear. Wow.

    note: you can read more about hovercrafts here - though it's aimed for a younger audience.

    1. Re:Something fishy by Elaine_r · · Score: 1
      I think you missed the point

      no skirt is needed the cussion of air is created by the craft traveling fast enough to create pressuried area under the craft large enough to give it lift, sometimes the engines will be directed under the wings in order to increase the effect thus enableing lower "flight" speeds, but alot of energy is wasted in pushing the craft off the ground but rather forward - see some of the other posts referencing how this works....

  17. Not PWS, I'm afraid... by neksys · · Score: 1

    It's Linux.

    The site www.mondaytimes.com.mv is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 on Linux.

    1. Re:Not PWS, I'm afraid... by Qrlx · · Score: 1

      so how many servers doe slashdot have, that they never seem to get slashdotted?

      I am now waiting 20 seconds.

    2. Re:Not PWS, I'm afraid... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Not really karma whoring, but better than just saying "RTF FAQ!" :

      http://slashdot.org/faq/tech.shtml#te050

      The relevant bit in the FAQ

  18. The russians did this a long time ago - Ekranoplan by neonstz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Check out this site for more info. I've also seen Discovery shows about this.

  19. those things should have much bigger uses by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2

    I think ground effect craft are the perfect cargo planes/boats of the future.

    They are faster than boats and much more efficiant than planes. They do not need runaways. they can have wide bodies and large volume cargo holds.

    Of course they can only go trough water, but you should not be using cargo planes over land anyway, you should be using high speed trains.

    They say that Boeing and Airbus are both thinking of developing super large cargo planes, they should just stop and concentrate on ground effect craft.

    I guess one of the costs of ground effect craft would be that naval navigation will have to change to allow for large fast low flying things, but that can be done.

    Also maybe the flying boats can be made to fly higher to skip over things that are in the way.

    1. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by cwebster · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Also maybe the flying boats can be made to fly higher to skip over things that are in the way.

      The point of this 'flying boat' is that it operates in ground effect, which allows the craft to produce more lift than it would normally be able. If you are going to give the craft enough power/lift to climb out of ground effect to "skip over things", you kind of defeat the whole point of the craft. It is more efficient for aircraft to fly at higher altitudes, air is less dense, and fuel burn is much less, and you can take advantage of winds aloft. Operating a long haul aircraft just above ground effect is probably the least efficient may to run, least range and greatest fuel burn, not to mention you cant go all that fast. As an example of that, take a theoritcal passenger jet. Aircraft measure speed in "Indicated Airspeed", which is the relative wind the skin of the aircraft is experiencing. At sea level, indicated and true airspeeds are about the same. Now take our jet, it has a Vne (Never exceed velocity) of 330 kts. So at sea level, (negating wind), i can only make around 300ish kts groundspeed (and only over sea, in the US below 18,000 ft, you cannot exceed 250 kts). Not bad you say? Consider that at altitude, you can operate an aircraft below the 330 kt limit, but because the less dense air (less wind == less indicated airspeed), your actual groundspeed can be 500 kts, and you are getting better fuel economy.

      These ground effect craft will probably due well for short haul stuff, but with the unpredictable nature of the ocean, i dont see them gaining wide use for trans oceanic operations. Much safer and efficient to be flying at FL330 :)

    2. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2

      i know skipping over would be inneficient but if it could be done only as an emergency procedure inefficiency wouldnt be a problem.

    3. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      You can "jump" stuff by pitching up sharply, but, like all aircraft, you'll lose airspeed quickly.

    4. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by cwebster · · Score: 1

      depends on just how much lift the thing can produce, without the extra lift of ground effect, the stall speed goes up. Depending on how quick that pitch up loses airspeed, you might stall, before actually 'jumping' the obstacle. And i doubt you'll see stall recovery from a power on stall in 3 meters of altitide, but instead a firm impact when the boat hits the water, and unhappy passengers.

    5. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Yeah, you're kind of dependent on inertia rather than aerodynamics for a while.

      Eeeek. A power-on stall at 300kts. Ouch. Unhappy passengers indeed.

    6. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by mpe · · Score: 2

      You can "jump" stuff by pitching up sharply, but, like all aircraft, you'll lose airspeed quickly.

      Which is in itself bad. But also you'd then need to get from an altitude where the craft can't fly well to one where it can slowly and smoothly. Pitching down sharply would be a very bad idea...

    7. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      (to this and the other post)

      I said it was possible, but I didn't necessarily say it was a good idea...

    8. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by BrianH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, TOO quickly. I knew a guy (friend of a friend) who built a small GE "kit craft"in his garage. He destroyed it when he tried to "skip" over some boulders (while flying it in the Utah desert) and jumped from 15 to more than 50 feet. He managed to clear the boulders, but it cost him so much airspeed that he stalled out and hit the ground on the other side. The GECraft was completely destroyed...and he wasn't doing much better himself.

      --

      There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
    9. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      According to the article on the soviet's WIG program, mentioned in another posting here, their big boys were "flying" at 20 meters above the surface and at speeds exceeding 500 knotts. That sounds like it should be able to deal with some major seas with aplomb. No word on efficiency though.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:those things should have much bigger uses by lommer · · Score: 1

      That is because the larger the wing, the greater the WIG effect. Thus, the only objects that the large cargo boats proposed by the original poster would have to pitch up to avoid would be freighters and the like.

      What I want to know is what effect does a WIG vehicle have on a small boat/craft/person underneath it when it flys over?

  20. WIG as Stealth by Baldrson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A really neat page on WIGs discusses a little-known fact: That the largest aircraft ever built, Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose, wasn't actually a failure -- it was just late for the WW II sky. It was built to rely on ground effect for rapid stealth delivery of troops. There is reason to believe it was never intended to fly outside of ground effect, despite the fact that Hughes took a reputational beating for failing to fly at high altitude. This may have been a ploy to keep the stealth characteristics of low-flying WIGs obscured. An entire WIG industry would render any nation with large populations quite formidable -- especially if WIG vehicles used carbon composite bodies rather tha metal skin.

    1. Re:WIG as Stealth by blufive · · Score: 1

      The Spruce Goose, even regarded as a WIGE vehicle (which I agree was its intended purpose), still had one major problem: it was grossly underpowered, and needed a huge stretch of calm water to haul itself airborne. With WW2-era aeroengines, it just wasn't going to be viable.

      [nitpick] For most definitions of "largest", the Spruce Goose is NOT the largest aircraft ever built. I think it's still the largest wing-span (97.5m) vehicle to ever get airborne, but the Antonov An-225 Mriya is longer (84m v 67m), and WAY heavier (600 vs 180 Tonnes)

    2. Re:WIG as Stealth by llauren · · Score: 1

      There's a book (fiction, pulp) called "Deep Lie" in which the russians had (among other fun things) a fleet of stealth WIG planes. At the time of reading that, last summer, i thought it was just nifty science fiction. Seems i was wrong :)

      The book is light summer reading. Especially fun if you're from coastal Sweden, Finland or Estonia, which is where much of the stuff in the book takes place.

      What i don't see is why a WIG plane couldn't be adapted for ground use.

      ~llauren

    3. Re:WIG as Stealth by mpe · · Score: 2

      The Spruce Goose, even regarded as a WIGE vehicle (which I agree was its intended purpose), still had one major problem: it was grossly underpowered, and needed a huge stretch of calm water to haul itself airborne.

      KM (the Russian built "Caspian Seamonster") has similar issues. It has 10 turbojet engines and needs all of them to take off. Once flying it can manage with 2.
      Even if you were to use modern aeroengines you still have the problem that water generates a lot more drag than air.

    4. Re:WIG as Stealth by mpe · · Score: 2

      There's a book (fiction, pulp) called "Deep Lie" in which the russians had (among other fun things) a fleet of stealth WIG planes. At the time of reading that, last summer, i thought it was just nifty science fiction. Seems i was wrong :)

      They can be quite stealthy, especially if you have some kind of "pathfinder" aircraft so that the ekranoplans don't need to use their own radar. Unfortunatly the pathfinder plane then is a very obvious target.

      What i don't see is why a WIG plane couldn't be adapted for ground use.

      The ground needs to be smooth, otherwise you are in trouble if the flight controls can't operate fast enough. (Or if the topography from a radar POV does not correspond with the topography from an aerodynamic POV. Thus the autopilot is incapable of compensating anyway.)

    5. Re:WIG as Stealth by Baldrson · · Score: 2

      While a communist bureaucracy is capable of any incompetence -- up to and including killing tens of millions through bad/corrupt central planning -- I find it very hard to believe Hughes would have made such an obvious error. Seaplanes of various designs had been flying for decades by the time Hughes designed the Spruce Goose. Further, Hughes' direct involvement in so many early variations of flight would render him aware that each required its own analysis regarding flight regimes from takeoff to landing. I can believe there may have been another launch mode involving external power of some kind. Since gliders had been used as stealth personnel carriers in WW II and gliders are totally dependent on external power, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that, like the "failure" to fly above ground effect, the "grossly under powered" story was meant to obscure the existence of a stealth military capability. If you can get to your destination, your plane is lighter not only by its cargo, but by its fuel and may therefore be in need of external power only during initial take off -- not during return takeoff.

    6. Re:WIG as Stealth by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 2

      They should use rocket engines... power to weight ratio is *much* better. Once up they can be shutdown and a prop could be used.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  21. More good resources on WIGS by Talkischeap · · Score: 5, Informative

    I heard of this kind of thing many years ago.

    The Soviets were way ahead of the game in this area as long ago as the 60's, they were called Caspian Sea Monsters because they were tested in the Caspian Sea, and looked like neither plane, nor boat.

    This web site has a very nice detailed article complete with many photos.

    They were quite the strange beasties back then, heres another look at them.

    And heres the WIG site (WIG is an abbreviation of Wing In Ground-effect), which is also a nice comprehensive resource about these interesting vehicles.

    The model maker Revell even made a plastic model kit of one, some years ago.

    Apparently, this type of aircraft hasn't found it's commercial niche yet, but it looks like this new application might work.

    --
    If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
    1. Re:More good resources on WIGS by awol · · Score: 1

      One of the problems of winged vehicles is the effect of catestrophic propulsion failure. In a train or a truck if your engine fails you stop moving but the cargo is still in tact. In a winged vehicle a power failure will result in a loss of cargo, if not at the bottom of the ocean then almost certainly all over the surface of it.

      Whilst the same is true for passenger flights, to some extent the econmics of cargo (particulalry if one increases the size of a WIG vehicle to make it cargo viable) mean that suxh failures (or the risk thereof) make it impossible to use as a platform.

      --
      "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
    2. Re:More good resources on WIGS by mpe · · Score: 3

      One of the problems of winged vehicles is the effect of catestrophic propulsion failure. In a train or a truck if your engine fails you stop moving but the cargo is still in tact. In a winged vehicle a power failure will result in a loss of cargo, if not at the bottom of the ocean then almost certainly all over the surface of it.

      In a conventional aircraft this is the case. With a WIG craft so long as the flight controls work (if needs be from an APU or RAT) it can easily be landed. Though it will most likely be capable of gliding considerable distance with no engine power.

    3. Re:More good resources on WIGS by fyonn · · Score: 1

      well, is that true? assuming it's going over sea, if the engine fails then I would think it would slow down and land on the surface of the water, where it would slow down alot more. it might not be overly pleasant but I would think it would be possible to do so safely.

      besides, should one not be more concerned about the possible loss of life rather than just the cargo?

      dave

    4. Re:More good resources on WIGS by groebke · · Score: 1

      The 4AD band in question in your sig is Throwing Muses. The lyrics are from the song 'Fish' on the 4AD compilation that derived its name from the lyric.

      --
      Gerald Roebke
  22. Ekranoplan history by The+Mgt · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:Ekranoplan history by Huge+Pi+Removal · · Score: 1


      I think the main difference between the old Russian Ekranoplans (which were *amazing* to see in action) and this is that the Ekranoplans were inherently unstable. They had to have immensely sophisticated electronics to avoid crashing straight into the water.

      I believe the reason why this reincarnation of them has been so long coming (since the technology was bought off the Russians well over a decade ago) was creating an entirely new design that was inherently stable. My hat goes off to them for managing it...

      --
      - Oliver

      The right to bear arms is only slightly less stupid than the right to arm bears...
  23. Life imitates art? by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe it's because I just got back from the movies, but the first thing I thought of when I saw this was a guy in a green mask flying around on it, cackling wildly and throwing fire extinguisher balls at people.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  24. Re:Ground efect boats already 'comercialy' availab by Joe+Rumsey · · Score: 2

    The linked story is actually about a group having purchased 4 of them, presumably Flightship's first sale, but a sale nonetheless. Possibly still vapor since they haven't been delivered, but it sounds like they've already made the sale and received the money to build them.

  25. What happens in fog? by Lord+Puppet · · Score: 1

    How does the pilot maintain the necessary altitude? It seems like a very small range to stay in.

    1. Re:What happens in fog? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Well, lift falls off sharply once you get out of the ground effect cushion. So, if you trim into a gentle climb, you will constantly be just sitting on the top of GE.

      As to fog, you'll probably find that they are rated "Daytime VFR Only" - like most microlights. In the UK, you can fly aircraft on a "Permit to Fly", which is the equivalent of a "Certificate of Airworthiness". So Permit aircraft don't need a CoA, but you are restricted to Day VFR. It's a lot cheaper, and is more suitable for private pilots who fly for fun, since you're less likely to need or want sophisticated IFR equipment on a light plane...

    2. Re:What happens in fog? by banuaba · · Score: 2

      They're not under the jurisdiction of the FAA, they're under the maritime authorities.

      --


      Brant

      Argle. Bargle.
    3. Re:What happens in fog? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Ok, I suppose that puts them under the same rules as boats. I don't know much about them, but presumably they would use RADAR to find their way about?

    4. Re:What happens in fog? by banuaba · · Score: 2

      They actually don't use "RaDAR" as you high-tech gurus like to call it. They use a string with a rock at the end of it. they throw it off the front (or "bow") of the boat, and if it makes a 'DONK' noise, then you know that something is in front of the boat. if it goes 'SPLASH', the front of the boat is clear. Now, when this thingy is traveling at 300 knots, you're going to need a longer string and a bigger rock, with a stronger guy throwing it, but those are just engineering details.

      :)

      --


      Brant

      Argle. Bargle.
    5. Re:What happens in fog? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Ah, y'see that's what I thought that long pole on the front of sailing ships was for - stick someone out on the end of it, and when they scream, you're close to the rocks.

  26. I read this, still don't understand how it works.. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Funny

    There once was a craft from the Maldives
    that could seat three men and their wives
    have some advice for free
    don't be one of the three,
    or you'll regret it the rest of your lives

  27. Cool. by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

    It is not a boat
    Summer waves never touch skin
    it is not a plane

  28. Re:Ground efect boats already 'comercialy' availab by barberio · · Score: 2

    An order is not a sale even if money has exchanged hands.

  29. A quality IE message... by ringbarer · · Score: 1

    Please be patient and try again in a few seconds.
    The web site you are trying to access is experiencing an extremely high volume of traffic.

    Please try the following:

    Click the Refresh button, or try again later.
    If the situation persists, you may want to contact the webmaster of this site and advise them to upgrade to a dedicated hosting plan.

    --
    "Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
  30. In other news by OpenSourcerer · · Score: 1

    Enterpreuner Dean Kamen announced his new personal transporter known only as "Git" and Genger which works by Ground Effect. This follows the massive failure of the Segway Human Transporter

  31. Why are these craft so expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are these craft so expensive? They use well known technology, and are basically low and slow small aircraft. $800 000 for one six passenger craft is a piss take. $5 mill ($US I assume) for a 40 pax is (or should be) a joke.

  32. Google Mirror by batobin · · Score: 2

    The first URL is already rejecting me because of high traffic. Here's a Google mirror.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:7cg6pQsh69I C: www.flightship.net/+flightship&hl=en

  33. Now this is just overboard... by PeeOnYou2 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    >> After the trail period, where Sunland would sue the first four Flightships

    Come on.. really, do you expect the Flightships to appear in court?

  34. Great desert verhicle! by DomoKun · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Anyone tried this on land? Ill bet, one could make a desert verhicle quite savely. And the Arabs can organize aerofoil-pod races in theire backyard.

  35. Sigh, If no else is gonna... by Rhinobird · · Score: 2

    If no-one else is gonna say it then I will.


    &#60Jonny Bravo&#62

    WIGGY

    &#60&#47Jonny Bravo&#62


    --
    If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
  36. Re:Flightship - slashdotted already ? by Rhinobird · · Score: 2

    I did, like 500 times, and I still get nothing...

    --
    If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
  37. Seen Them by mlknowle · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is one of these that operates on Narrahgansett Bay, where I live in Rhode Island. I should say, operated, because last summer it hit a wave and crashed. The pilot and passenger were bruised, but OK - the Coast Guard managed to pull them out before the thing sank.

  38. Mor on the ground effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  39. Nice Editing by cheesethegreat · · Score: 0

    After the trail period, where Sunland would sue the first four Flightships

    Maybe next time they should use a trained monkey to edit the story.

    Seriously, though, do these things need to have a specific balance of weight when they're in flight? And also, does their wing dip down when they turn? because if it does, it would be really easy for them to catch a wave with the wing and go splat.

  40. Slashdot Effect by forged · · Score: 1

    After Ground Effect, they will have learnt this one by the end of the day !

  41. No Certification needed by Sergeant+Beavis · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ground effect craft are not new. They've been around for decades. The primaraly work by traping air underneath the "wing" and using that to create lift. As a result, they cannot "fly" very far off the ground. The FAA ruled quite a while ago that a craft that has to stay in "ground effect" to create lift is not an aircraft and thus isn't regulated by them. A hovercraft actually falls in the same catagory because it to flys in ground effect, it just does it in a completely different way.

    --
    There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
    1. Re:No Certification needed by lrichardson · · Score: 4, Interesting
      > The FAA ruled quite a while ago that a craft that has to stay in "ground effect" to create lift is not an aircraft and thus isn't regulated by them. A hovercraft actually falls in the same catagory because it to flys in ground effect, it just does it in a completely different way.

      The key word is 'has'. Some GE vehicles are just underpowered planes ... they can exceed the GE limit, but fly like a drunk duck.

      The first real application of GE was WWII, when certain bombers found that they could ride the effect over water, decreasing fuel consumption, and, if rumours can be believed, allowing one of the first autopilots - just blocking the stick in the direction they wanted, altitude takes care of itself. Which works well over water, not so good over land ... and is one of the reasons why a lot of the designers (Fischer leaps to mind) don't want to see these in the hands of the civil populace ... a vehicle that can drive itself 99% is going to crash an awful lot when the driver/pilot needs to add that last 1% .

    2. Re:No Certification needed by The+Raven · · Score: 1

      a vehicle that can drive itself 99% is going to crash an awful lot when the driver/pilot needs to add that last 1%.

      Leading to the question of what argument the designers have against boats, being another craft that fits this same description.

      --
      "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    3. Re:No Certification needed by MobileC · · Score: 0

      The first trans-atlantic flights proved the efficency of staying within half your wingspan of the surface.

      --

      Fran
      :):):)
      1st 1st Poster of the new Millennium!

  42. The Soviets by Sergeant+Beavis · · Score: 1

    Thought it was a damn good idea. They built a huge one for troop and cargo transport. It has actually flown too. It was featured on WINGS a while back as I recall. However the fall of the Soviet Union and lack of Russian capitol killed the program. These vessels can be built to very large proportions and cost much less to operate than a plane such as the C-5 Galaxy. They could be used to ship very large cargos across the oceans in very short times.

    --
    There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
    1. Re:The Soviets by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      The ekranoplan idea died not because of the fall of the Soviet Union, but because the designer was too friendly to Nikita Khrushchev. When Leonid Brezhnev came to power in 1964, most of the ekranoplan ideas were shelved for political reasons, though one smaller ekranoplan design did make to small scale production.

  43. Seen before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first version of this craft was called the Flarecraft. It was in an issue of Popular Science about 5 years ago, and looked a heck of alot cooler than this one does. Much more stealth-fighter-ish :)

  44. The Soviets ignored this great idea by MtViewGuy · · Score: 3, Informative

    What's sad about the Soviet WIG program was the fact these vehicles were perfect for fast movements across the Baltic Sea to invade the Scandinavian Peninsula. Imagine moving an amphibious strike force at several times the speed of even hovercraft.

    Unfortunately, the designers of the Ekranoplan were too closely tied to Khruschev (sp?), and when Brenzhnev took over, the Ekranoplan idea died a quick and untimely death.

    With the application of modern technology, an ekranoplan could be perfect for island-hopping operations in the Less Antillies in the Caribbean Sea.

    1. Re:The Soviets ignored this great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh darn. How unfortunate for us that the warmongering communists dropped this idea for the perfect invasion amphibious assault vehicle. Damn terrorist lover.

  45. Are we getting closer? by loconet · · Score: 1

    All these advancements are neat, from printable LCD monitors ..to flying boats, to things connecting to things ...but Where are the flying cars? How come they haven't come up with a safe/efficient way of allowing having cars to fly ..I'd love to flying in to work and avoid some traffic !

    --
    [alk]
    1. Re:Are we getting closer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no real reason we can't have flying cars, from a technology standpoint.

      The major barrier is the idiots that would want to use 'em. Are you ready to go get a full pilot's license and file a flight plan every time you go to the store for a loaf of bread?

      We already have enough of a problem with drunk drivers. Imagine drunk fliers!

    2. Re:Are we getting closer? by mikefoley · · Score: 2

      Kevin Smith asked the same question... Flying Car

      --
      What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
    3. Re:Are we getting closer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as a commerical pilot with around 8000 hours. It will be a cold day in hell before the FAA ever alows "Flying Cars" to be certified and sold. And it will be an even colder day before the "people" are ready for it. You want 800,000 morons flying through, over and around downtown LA, New York or Chicago?. How about flying home at night, or when the weather unexpectedly gets bad?

    4. Re:Are we getting closer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People can't operate cars in two dimensions. Why do you want to give them a third.

  46. Please Don't call it a flying boat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been a pilot of flying boats for years. Please don't call this a flying boat, it's not. You guys get upset if I interchange the terms cracker and hacker. I get upset when you confuse ground effect vehicle and flying boat.

  47. Old hat, again. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2

    This is an old technology. more information here.

  48. No its changed by DABANSHEE · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yep up until a few years ago channel hovercraft were regulated by the civil aviation people, but they eventually saw sense & now they are regulated by the maritime authority.

  49. Google cache? by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2

    I've used it before for slashdotted sites

  50. FS8 / FS40 by Alsee · · Score: 2

    The Flightship FS8 is a craft that carries 6 passengers and luggage (plus 2 crew)
    6+2=8. FS8. Ok, makes sense.

    the FS40 aircraft, which has a 40-passenger capacity
    Ummm, does that mean zero crew? Maybe they only plan to fly the SF40 in the bermuda triangle :)

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  51. Orlyonoks available by magarity · · Score: 1

    Order your Soviet-era WIG ship today (from autospeed.com):

    "Now called the Volga Shipyard, the Orlyonok is apparently still being developed as a commercial search and rescue craft. In fact, it appears that the Orlyonok can be ordered in either cargo-carrying (50 tons with a 1500km range) or in passenger carrying (30 people and a 3000km range) versions - the yard lists it as a production model!"

    1. Re:Orlyonoks available by Cletus+the+yokel · · Score: 1

      Forget Orlynoks... I want a LUN! I can't believe the Russian left that thing to rot in a Volga shipyard, it would've made the world's navies pretty much obsolete.

      --
      Wanted: One witty yet thought provoking .sig - Apply here.
  52. Same as a Normal Airplane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A normal airplane can take advantage of the same principles simply by flying low to the ground. However, aviation restrict this practice. The WIG may qualify as a marine vehicle and bypass these rules.

  53. uhm.. by waspleg · · Score: 1

    so what happens when seas are rough, according to the article it can take like 6 foot waves.. what happens with hurricane winds and 35 foot waves?

    seems like they're spending an aweful lot of money to send some rich tourists off as guinea pigs during "peak season"

    although they do look cool, like the ornithopters from Dune, if they were sturdy
    they seem in-expensive at $800,000 (although i could never afford one,e ven if i saved all my change for 3,000 years) considering a harrier is like a billion or so (ask Pepsi, they would know ;))

  54. There is a reason they aren't commercially viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Scroll down to Freak waves.

    The fundamental issue is this. The vehicle has to be close to the water. As a result, running into a single large wave is a problem. The larger the vehicle is, the larger a wave it can handle. But the larger the vehicle is, the more it costs to build and the more it needs to transport to be profitable.

    So you need quiet water which a lot of people want to cross fast. But the water has to be a lot quieter than you think. You see every so often several different waves of different frequencies fall into sync, and form one really large wave. This may only happen to you once per year, but even once per year is far too often if it happens under a vehicle that you needs several years to pay off.

    So you make a bigger craft. Fine, but now it is going to take you even longer to pay off. There is no practical limit to the size of a freak wave. Bigger ones happen more rarely, but they still happen.

    As a result this kind of vehicle, which by nature needs to be very delicate and very expensive, has always wound up on the wrong side of the cost curve. People have looked into them in several markets, but they are just too easy to sink in a freak accident to be commercially viable.

    Of course regular ships run into these, and occasionally sink from them as well. But they don't need to be so light, nor do they hit waves as fast, and therefore ships cost less and can take more wave. this makes the risk acceptably small.

  55. XtremeXplorer Ground Effect Vehicle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A similar product is being offered by Amphistar. I drive by their hangar everyday in Norfolk, VA. But I have only seen an XtremeXplorer outside once. The XtremeXplorer is in regular use in the Bahamas (according to the web site). And it looks like a lot of their pilots are Russian. They even claim to have the pilot of the "Caspian Sea Monster" (the 747 sized plane as seen on TLC). He even gives operator instruction classes, so bring your Visa card.

    http://www.amphistar.com/

  56. Alright., am I missing something? by DavidTC · · Score: 1
    So, basically, this combines all the deficits of a hovercraft (can't handle large waves or land variations) with the deficits of an aircraft (needs a landing strip), with a few new deficits (I'm having trouble visualizing how this thing is going to turn at more than a 10 degree slope and not hit the water).

    And the only thing gained is...it can go fast! Wow, just like a real airplane!

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    1. Re:Alright., am I missing something? by T-Punkt · · Score: 1

      > ... with the deficits of an aircraft (needs a landing strip) ...

      What makes you think so?
      It lands on water like a flying boat/sea plane.
      Guess why it's called "flightship"...

    2. Re:Alright., am I missing something? by oldays · · Score: 1

      yeah, it's faster than hovercraft and burns less fuel than an airplane.

    3. Re:Alright., am I missing something? by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Anything that's a few meters above water can land on it, assuming it floats. The real question is, can it take off from water?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    4. Re:Alright., am I missing something? by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      It doesn't burn less fuel than a real airplane taking advantage of the same effect.

      And a real airplane has powerful enough engines that it can actually fly at real attitudes in bad weather, and not crash when a wave hits it, as one of these did.

      They've basically designed a car that can't get above second gear and said 'Man, that's a lot faster than a motorscooter!'. Yeah, but how is that an advantange over a real car?

      And I'm questioning how the engines can be powerful enough to provide enough lift to lift out of the water, too, but not provide enough lift to actually take off. Water has a lot of drag.

      If you want to cut fuel by flying right above water, fly right above the water and cut back on the throttle, don't comes up with some silly broken airplane that that is all it can do. Sure, design an airplane to do that optimally, that's all well and good, but give it real engines. Heck, just stick an extra prop or two on there somewhere and leave them off most of the the time, then you can have engines for hovering and some extras to turn on for flying.

      The only reason this makes any sense is if they're trying to not have to have an actual licensed 'pilot'. Which is...well, I'm not riding in anything that has wings without a pilot. I don't care if it doesn't get that high off the ground, the real problems with airplaces start when they're hitting the ground.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  57. For the do-it-yourselfers out there... by Non-Prophet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here is a WIG (wing in ground effect) craft built by a hovercraft hobbyist. It sure looks like a lot of fun. Also, I found out a while back that the FAA doesn't regulate WIG craft, so you don't need a pilots license as long as it can only fly in ground effect and not as a regular aircraft.

  58. Ground-effect flying boat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a bus!
    It's a plane!
    It's a boat!

    Please come up with a decision soon.

  59. I dont think this is all that new by Second_Derivative · · Score: 1

    When I was little I used to ride on these a lot of the time. I'm not sure if it was a proper WIG craft but it's basically like a normal boat with three fins sticking downward that can do something like 50 mph. I was told they worked on some sort of aerodynamic principle anyway. I thik they were called 'Rocket' (well, ok in rus that's raketta or close enough in roman characters)

    1. Re:I dont think this is all that new by T-Punkt · · Score: 1

      What you have described is a hydrofoil, something completely different. A hydrofoil is a ship with "underwater wings" which lift [most parts of] the hull out of the water at higher speeds to reduce drag.

  60. Site Down by RichiP · · Score: 1

    Slashdot effect does it again. I just see the MS IIS "web site is busy" page. I hope they don't run the ship's computers on any MS product.

  61. Ummm... ancient news? by Hyped01 · · Score: 1

    These are even more commonly called hydroplanes. You take a plane and create a method in which it can coast over or land on water. This has been done already using a variety of methods.

    --

    WebMaster:
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    1. Re:Ummm... ancient news? by smash · · Score: 1
      umm... I belive "hydroplanes" or "hydrofoils" have keel(s) with wings on them that use water to lift majority of the craft into the air.

      this doesn't leave any of the craft in the water.

      thats how I understand it anyway...

      smash

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  62. Seen this before by PhuCknuT · · Score: 1

    I remember seeing these, although I think a bit smaller, on a show called beyond 2000 at least 10 years ago.

    1. Re:Seen this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well it is beyond 2000.

  63. Soviet technology by parkanoid · · Score: 1

    I've done some research on soviet GE craft, and this one looks like an exact copy of an early russian portotype. Soviet engineers have done a lot of progress in this area (including huge cargo planes as well as a virtually motorless craft which is accelerateed by a land-based rail). Unfortunately the craft never went into mass production, and now we see yet another american company exploit the work of brilliant soviet scientists.

    1. Re:Soviet technology by parkanoid · · Score: 1

      Very well, I stand corrected. I still think you should be more tolerant in that aspect. (and that is aside from the fact that my point still stands)

  64. Did anyone besides me catch the author's name? by JojoCoco · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee.

  65. Lawsuit already planned? by KPU · · Score: 1

    After the trail period, where Sunland would sue the first four Flightships (each with a capacity of only six passengers, to carry tourists to and from Sunland's resorts; the company hopes to invest a further five million dollars to get bigger Flightships with a capacity of 40 passengers.
    What is a trail period? After they're done with the trial period, they're planning to sue the ships! I never knew one could sue Flightships. Maybe they meant use.

  66. Moller by almeida · · Score: 1

    Check out Moller International. They made some UFO-like ground effect vehicles in the past and now are making a vertical take-off and landing vehicle that they hope will replace the car.

    1. Re:Moller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The Moller thingy is intended to represent a "vectored-thrust, powered-lift" vehicle and all of these are inherently unstable as hell and very dangerous. I'm not even going to comment on the subject that everyone in the world of aviation thinks that Moller is some kind of scam artist.

  67. 4.0 6.0 by fava · · Score: 1

    When trying to access there site I get:

    To view the Flightship website we recommend a browser version 4.0 or higher. Updating your system will allow you to fully enjoy all the content on the Flightship website.

    I use opera 6.0, evidently they think that 6 is less than 4. Why do I suddenly have doubts about thier engineering skills.

  68. How will they safely avoid smaller craft? by FredGray · · Score: 2
    There is a high-speed catamaran ferry ("The Cat") that operates from Bar Harbor, Maine, USA to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada at about 55 miles per hour. Local fishermen are scared to death of it, because of an accident back in September 1998. In spite of all reasonable precautions, it collided with a fishing boat, killing the captain. The timetables and routes are well publicized, the two vessels had been in radio contact, and The Cat is equipped with state-of-the-art radar equipment.

    So, if it's this difficult to operate a ship safely at 55 mph, what additional precautions need to be taken to go to several hundred mph over the water?

    1. Re:How will they safely avoid smaller craft? by oldays · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was going at 18mph supposedly during that collision. (harbor speed). But that's a good point.. a ship/plane going at 500mph is not easily dodged.

    2. Re:How will they safely avoid smaller craft? by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

      You'd hope they create sea lanes for these things. Like you say, nimble, they ain't.

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      You need a FREE iPod Nano
    3. Re:How will they safely avoid smaller craft? by smash · · Score: 1
      well... at an altitude of 3.5 metres, the flightship will safely clear most small vessels ;)

      anything with a height more than that is pretty easily visible on the ocean...

      smash(just my 2 cents)

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  69. World's first? by NFW · · Score: 1
    --
    Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
  70. Re:4.0 6.0 by fava · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    >> Eat a dick, linux whiner. You're fucking stupid.

    Actually I am using opera for Windows. I have used both IE and Netscape but I prefer Opera. Its small, fast and does everything I want it to do.

    I can't beleive I am responding to a flame by an AC.

  71. Re: Stolen From Dr. Lippisch by DoctorMabuse · · Score: 1

    Dr. Lippisch, the WW2 German aircraft designer who pioneered the delta wing invented the first aircraft of this type many years ago. As usual, The US and the USSER simply stole from the German scientists.

  72. They had a run of 124 Orlyonok troopships by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2
    1. Re:They had a run of 124 Orlyonok troopships by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      I think they were never really deployed on a large scale because of the noise from the nose-mounted jet engines and the very high fuel burn rate.

      However, if we apply modern Western jet engine and turboprop technology, we could probably build an ekranoplan that wouldn't be a fuel hog and is much less noisy, too.

      I still think the ekranoplan is perfect for island hopping travel in the eastern Caribbean Sea islands.

    2. Re:They had a run of 124 Orlyonok troopships by Cletus+the+yokel · · Score: 1

      I still think the ekranoplan is perfect for island hopping travel in the eastern Caribbean Sea islands.

      'Cept for all the sailboats about. "Oops, sorry 'bout that,mon!"
      Seriously, though, WIGs use a lot of their fuel during lift-off and landing, so short-haul flights would tend to be extremely inefficient IMHO. The Soviets had the right idea - these things are tailor-made for heavy-lift assault, high-speed torpredo or missile craft, and naval patrol. I can see them used as civillian river transport, much like hydrofoils are used in East Asia, but I'd be nervous about setting them loose in the crowded waters of the caribbean.

      --
      Wanted: One witty yet thought provoking .sig - Apply here.
  73. Not Quite... by The+Raven · · Score: 3

    Though it will most likely be capable of gliding considerable distance with no engine power.

    Not exactly. Don't forget that it is only a few feet above the water in most cases. Thus, without engine power, it may have the best glide ratio on the planet... but you can't glide far when the water is only 10 feet below you.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    1. Re:Not Quite... by T-Punkt · · Score: 1

      > but you can't glide far when the water is only 10 feet below you.

      What's your point?

      There's no need to glide far to land on water from 10 feet altitude.

  74. And what, exactly, is new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, this can do 85kts?

    From , I quote:
    "By 1962 a craft fitted with 4 foot skirts moved at 50 knots in calm seas, 40 knots in seas with waves of 4 to 5 feet! This was much faster than most surface ships. Just as important, the craft was operating at twice its original weight with no increase in lift power. Within 10 years newer hovercraft, 50 times heavier and able to travel above 60 knots carried a third of all passengers and cars across the English Channel."

    Whoop-de-do.

    mark

  75. No news is good news by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    No offense, but any body who's read popular science has a jump on our boy by about 2 years or so. At least it's mildly better than a post about an editor and his dog book.

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    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  76. Spruce Goose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Remember the Spruce Goose? It's only a ground effect aircraft. Never was designed with enough power to really climb out of ground effect and the only time it ever flew, it had to stay in ground effect to remain airborne.

    As a pilot who owns my own small airplane, the very idea of ground effect aircraft is a very scary proposition. The possibility of cartwheeling it and turning the vehicle into an expanding collection of loose parts is too real.

    There's a saying in aviation that airspeed equals life, and alititude (above ground level) equals life insurance. I like to think also that airspeed is your sex partner and altitude is your best friend.

  77. Reading is fun-demental by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    While I agree this is far from news, did you even bother to read the artical? This is not a hovercraft. Hovercraft require skirts to operate. This vehical does not. Hovercraft require vertically mounted engines to create a cusion of air. This vehical does not. Somehow, I don't think the writers of your quote were quite envisioning a water skimming aircraft, but more like a giant, skirted behemoth with lots of engines. Oh, a hovercraft can transverse land and water. This vehical, though faster and more effcient, can't. What's new? Beyond the general theory, everything ace.

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    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  78. Damn, those evil Americans! Damn! by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    Like those brilliant soviet scientist "innovated" the British design of the Concord? Riiight... That's them.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Damn, those evil Americans! Damn! by parkanoid · · Score: 1

      The TU144 was indeed based on the Concord, however it was a much better design, suitable for flights across landmasses. Oh yeah, and it didn't fall apart in the air.

  79. iis by drDugan · · Score: 1

    so much for MICROSOFT IIS

    HEAD http://www.flightship.net/products/
    403 Access Forbidden
    Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 00:28:51 GMT
    Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
    Content-Length: 3419
    Content-Type: text/html
    Client-Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 00:26:59 GMT
    Client-Peer: 168.144.186.234:80

    ...
    pretty much every page on their site says:

    Please be patient and try again in a few seconds.

    The web site you are
    trying to access is experiencing an extremely high volume of traffic.
    Please try the following:
    Click the Refresh button, or try again later.
    If the situation persists, you may want to contact the webmaster of this
    site and advise them to upgrade to a dedicated hosting plan.

    *sigh*

    HINT: reloading 50 times in quick succession will get you the page!

    get a real web server, please.

  80. This isn't new by RoC+MasterMind · · Score: 1

    I don't think this is new cuz those ducks in Duck Tales used it like 10 years ago a Goldenbook.

  81. The Caspian Sea Monster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From: http://www.tv.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/programs/extra.cgi?SC =NT&file=NT20000709.html

    "The Caspian Sea Monster - repeat
    Broadcast Date: Jul 09, 2000

    THE CASPIAN SEA MONSTER ON THE NATURE OF THINGS, Sunday, July 9 at 5pm

    It looks like a hybrid of a boat and a plane, was designed amid complete secrecy by the Russian military, and may well represent the future of intercontinental travel. On Sunday, July 9 at 5 p.m., CBC Television's THE NATURE OF THINGS with David Suzuki examines the Ekranoplan, an extraordinary vehicle that has been built to fly a few feet above water, traveling long distances at high speed and for low cost.

    Dreamed up by an engineering genius for the Russian military, the Ekranoplan, nicknamed 'The Caspian Sea Monster' by the Pentagon, underwent decades of building and testing against a backdrop of an escalating Cold War, until the collapse of Communism led to its production being halted. But good ideas do not disappear forever, and today the Ekranoplan is being constructed for largely civilian purposes. It may not be long before we are traveling overseas mere inches over oceans.

    The Ekranoplan was the brainchild of a young scientist and former pilot Rostislav Evgenyevich Alexiev, who began work on it in the 1950s. Alexiev, who invented the modern hydrofoil, wanted to go one step further. He wanted to bring the vehicle completely out of the water to limit resistance. In October of 1966, in trials on the Caspian Sea, an Ekranoplan flew for the first time. The trial was a great success. However, the end of the Cold War saw the Russians put a stop to the construction programme. Now the West has begun to show considerable interest in seeing the vehicle developed.

    There are issues and design problems yet to be overcome, but increasingly the Ekranoplan looks like it may find a place in overseas travel in the future. Within 10 years, commercial 300-seaters may well be a reality.

    The Caspian Sea Monster is produced and directed by Hamish Barbour. Executive producer is Grant McKee. It is an Ideal World production. Executive producer of THE NATURE OF THINGS is Michael Allder."

  82. WIGs have LOUSY glide ratio - here's why by Goldenhawk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually a WIG has LOUSY glide ratio.

    First off, IAAAE - I am an Aero Engineer. Glide ratio is largely a function of the wing's efficiency - and that is almost entirely a function of the ratio of wingspan to wing "chord" - in otherwords, the ratio of width to length of the wing. (Ever wonder why a sailplane has such long thin wings?) But to get a good ground effect, you need a short stubby wing, not a long thin one - you need a longer surface to "trap" the cushion of air underneath. So wing efficiency and ground effect are actually mutually exclusive. That's the main reason that you cannot get far off the ground in a WIG vehicle. The ONLY reason it gets up is the ground effect - you simply don't have enough lift otherwise. (You can zoom for brief distances, but there is so much drag due to the lousy efficiency that you cannot sustain high flight.)

    So if you remember that glide ratio is related to wing efficiency, and that wing efficiency is awful in a WIG, you get a lousy glide ratio in these things.

    But as "mpe" mentions, you can easily settle down on the water and slow down to become a boat.

    One other interesting fact about these things is worth mentioning. If you see the pics of the Russian monster WIG (sometimes called the "Caspian Sea Monster", due to its extreme size), you'll notice the engines at the FRONT, up high on a winglike structure. Why? Well, to get "airborne", you have to get up to speed. But water drag is so high, and the plane is so big, that they cannot simply accelerate up to flying speed. So the only way to get enough air under the wings to get out of the water is to blow it directly there - so they mount the engines in front of the wing, so that the airstream can be directed under the wing to boost the plane off the water at a relatively low speed - after which they can start really accelerating.

    --
    --Brandon / Split Infinity Music

    1. Re:WIGs have LOUSY glide ratio - here's why by mpe · · Score: 2

      First off, IAAAE - I am an Aero Engineer. Glide ratio is largely a function of the wing's efficiency - and that is almost entirely a function of the ratio of wingspan to wing "chord" - in otherwords, the ratio of width to length of the wing. (Ever wonder why a sailplane has such long thin wings?)

      One thing ground effect does is to increase the effective length of the wing. So as long as the craft stays in ground effect it's glide ratio is larger than you'd otherwise expect it to be. Most likely a WIG will glide rather further than people (especially those familiar with more conventional aircraft) would expect.

      One other interesting fact about these things is worth mentioning. If you see the pics of the Russian monster WIG (sometimes called the "Caspian Sea Monster", due to its extreme size), you'll notice the engines at the FRONT, up high on a winglike structure. Why? Well, to get "airborne", you have to get up to speed. But water drag is so high, and the plane is so big, that they cannot simply accelerate up to flying speed. So the only way to get enough air under the wings to get out of the water is to blow it directly there - so they mount the engines in front of the wing, so that the airstream can be directed under the wing to boost the plane off the water at a relatively low speed

      I'm not sure KM actually works this way. It looks more as though the Russians simply followed the "brute force" school of engineering. With the engines being up high to avoid ingesting water.

    2. Re:WIGs have LOUSY glide ratio - here's why by Goldenhawk · · Score: 2

      Actually they DO blow under the wing. I've seen footage of it lifting off and flying. Also a WIG vehicle was demonstrated on the river near where I work, and it too had front-mounted propulsion (props instead of jets, for this small version) with exactly the same purpose. The props were pivoted, rather like a V-22 engine pod.

      --
      --Brandon / Split Infinity Music

  83. Re:Ground efect boats already 'comercialy' availab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A few ground-effect vechicles were operated by the Navy during the Vietnam war. The were at least four of them in the beginning. By the time the war wound down, only two were left. The other two were destroyed by big booby traps. They were used on one of the rivers, and could move from river to rice paddy with a fair amount of ease. They were used much like helicopters to insert and extract a small platoon of troops.

  84. my hovercraft is full of eels by r00tyroot · · Score: 0
  85. Miami Here I come by fldvm · · Score: 1

    Now I can move to Miami and start that import business.

  86. test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    testtesttesttest this is a test a test a test a test