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Non Line of Sight Broadband
gfilion writes "IEEE Spectrum has an
article about nifty wireless adapters that don't require LOS. At first, NLOS wireless may not sound like a big deal. After all, ordinary radios and cellphones are non-line-of-sight devices. But they don't carry broadband data. What makes the latest generation of NLOS wireless technology worth talking about and having is that it delivers data at high rates over substantial distances."
Actually, FM radio is line of sight.
Best Slashdot Co
Only if they had this for the people in the last story they could not have had to lay so much fiber.
Get your Unix fortune now!
This is especially good for people like me, who reside in rural areas. One of the biggest bottlenecks on geting broadband up in the mountains is the fact that trenchs are expensive to dig (damned granite) and that there is no line of site.
Hopefully something useful is done with this and some committee in congress doesn't deem it a threat to 'homeland security'.
Linux is dead.
LU
Finally I can take down my tent under that tower and move in with girl I really love.
What is the definition of line of site for this.... as it pertains to FM reception indoors, in basements, over the horizon from the tower, etc.
That's really strange. Doesn't AOL cost $30/mo already? What this apparently says is that even though users can have 24x7 net access at a higher speed that doesn't tie up their phone line for a lower cost, they'll stick with what they have.
Who paid for the study, Disney?
Ok, I'm not scared enough to wear a tinfoil suit... but I'm somewhat worried about the rapid growth of wireless gear, especially those gizmos that brag about their ability to trasmit thru almost anything. Is there a point where our wireless usage will begin to cause some damage to the human body? That's a lot of energy zipping around every which way.
I know nothing about this field... but I am curious.
The "danger of radio" myths have kicked around since Marconi. It comes from the same mindset of the person who might say "Oooh! There is an atom on me! Get it off!"
This novel was published in a multi-part format in Analog Science Fiction and Fact magazine just a few months ago. It definately kept me waiting for the next issue.
Warning - minor spoiler
One issue dealt with the book was what happens when the all-knowing personal monitoring system is compromised or degraded. The ultimate ramifications were not completely explored by the end of the novel, but the chink in the armor was exposed.
Recommended.
Wow, now I can blow the dust off of my Antron-99 and 40 foot mast. And during the day, I may be even able to lower my routes with skip!
My house is encircled and enshrouded by a dense cover of mature mapple and walnut trees, such that I'm unable to mooch off my company's wireless internet because there is no line of sight and the trees degrade the connection so badly that it's not even worth trying if there were.
Once this comes down in price(I'm guessing it's still semi-expensive since it's newer technology) it will be great for all the rural areas out here in the sticks.
A friend that owns an ISP in this area already has plans in the works to create a 802.11x grid in the areas surrounding my town in order to provide high-speed access to the farmers and very small towns(less than 50 people) that don't have any form of cable or dsl. So far the only hang-up has been the construction of towers in the void areas where there are no grain bins or elevators tall enough out in the areas where an access point and repeater is needed. Judging by the information provided in this article he may be able to skip out on some of these towers due to the greater distance provided by the NLOS technology.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
i sure would like this for my parents. they live in the middle of Honolulu, yet they are too far from the nearest DSLAM, and we would need to dig a trench to bring cable from the sidewalk to the house. no wires can simplify things a great deal.
the article didn't mention the speed, but compared it to Bluetooth. would that be fast enough for video and voice?
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Does this mean it is "outta sight"?
Note: post people under 40 will have no idea wat that refrence means.
man, if 802.11b is already out of control, this is just going to be rediculous. So much data flying through the air. I just need an antenna, a NLOS NIC and a nice packet sniffer. I could rule the world!
My provider calls Non Line of Sight Broadband "ADSL". And my neighbor has it also, thought it's called "Cable".
And of course the WONDERFULLY INTELLIGENT AND FRIENDLY CUSTOMER SERVICE/TECH SUPPORT REPS have NOTHING to do with the lack of people getting/staying with broadband. I know when MYcable modem was going out DAILY from 2pm-6pm they rushed right out to fix it!
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
If the units are to scale in the photo listed, who cares if it is NLOS? The photo makes them seem HUGE! I would want to be able to bring my wireless connection with me everywhere I went.
Do they have any smaller devices?
Excuse me, but TV is non-line of sight, and moves a lot of data (precious little INFORMATION, but that's another rant).
www.eFax.com are spammers
Interesting!
If you're the one that discovered this bug, you should have logged in!!
What moron modded this retard up?
Hell, who modded the parent, who HAS A CLUE, down?
What exactly is a fast PCI modem??? What is the need to have a "fast PCI" modem??? You aren't going to throw any more data through a fast PCI pipe than a regular PCI pipe with a modem, now are you??
Network cards, SCSI cards, etc..., now that'd be a different story.
So take your Linux smackdown out of here.
Many wireless providers using 3G networks outside of the US provide fast data access through their non-LOS devices, and I agree with the other poster that TV and now Digital TV move large amounts of data through non line of sight methods as well. My Apple WAP does non-LOS, albeit at a relatively slow rate and shorter distance.
"maintaining an adequate signal-to-noise ratio would require a service provider to install a transceiver base station every 50 meters, a proposition that would appear to be prohibitively expensive"
50 meters? Hmmm...
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Huh? I pay $21.95 for 40Kbps dialup access and $22/month for a second phone line. I'd sure as hell pay $40 a month for HIGH SPEED access. In fact, I'd pay double that without blinking. Right now I'm looking into frame and 802.11 solutions, but I have trouble stomaching $550/month for T-1 speeds, and I've had only minimal luck finding people who are interested in $50/month colo (hey, if you're interested, e-mail me). All I want is high speed, no restrictions on running VPNs, and low latency (so I can use ssh).
And frankly, it seems MARKETING is the real problem. If you offered $20/month dialup users access which was 2.5 times their existing speed for the same cost, they'd be crazy not to take it. So, MARKET it at 128kbps for $20/month, $30/month for 256kbps, $40 for 512kbps, etc. Bandwidth is like a drug - once you realize what you can do with it, you always want more. Maybe people aren't interested in paying $40/month when they spend $20 and use a computer 30 minutes each week, but if you get them in the habit of sitting down whenever they want to look something up, find a recipe, phone number, etc, they will soon *realize* what benefits a permanent, high speed connection have. Heck, think how many trees the phone company would save if everyone used the internet to look up phone numbers, and they stopped printing phone books.
From the article:
Outside of playing interactive games, which is hardly a universal activity, no broadband "killer app" has yet emerged.
I don't know about you, but isn't quickly pirating movies and music a KILLER app? If I had broadband connection like my brother, I would probably have a collection of 200 some movies too.
So what's the real reason? You have a killer app, and a low price in some areas, yet only a fraction of people are subscribing to it? Something is fishy...
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
Wiredog's right.
FM broadcast radio, as well as cell phones, and broadcast television work in the VHF and UHF bands.
Because of the frequency of the carrier wave, these bands propagate using line of sight which means that the signal's means of propagation are not by reflecting off of something such as the ground or sky.
Lower frequencies, such as local AM broadcast use ground wave propagation, because the signal reflects off of the ground.
Short wave radio tends to propagate using sky wave propagation, because the radio signal bounces off of the earth's ionosphere. This is often refered to as "skip" and can cause signals to travel across the globe.
When using your mobile phone, drive very fast so you will outrun the cancer rays coming from the phone. If not in a vehicle, run very fast.
Remember, it is rude to pay attention to anything besides the person you are speaking to.
I hadn't thought of that. Compensate for insecure WEP with a bunch of maple trees. Restrict the signal to your yard.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Yes, I like to call it "Security through shrubery"
You want into my network? NIT!
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
Slashbots have nothing to worry about.
Using eyestalks, maybe?
I'm a lacto-ovo-pesco-carno-vegetarian
The highlights: non-line of sight, near symmetric T1 speeds to the home user, VOIP, low latency, and adaptive beam-forming. If you're too far for DSL or cable, check us out.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
Turn on a radio or television where you normally hang out. If you get a signal you are in the RF field of that broadcast station. Wireless communication works by generating a very small voltage in any conductive material in the RF field....so anywhere you can pickup radio, television, or cell-phone signal, you have a voltage being generated in your body.
As a comparison, the voltages generated by the human nervous system are much higher since you don't lose motor control every time you enter one of these RF fields.
You probably want to avoid standing in front of a Megawatt radar station on an Aegis class destroyer, and sticking your head in a running microwave....but other than that I wouldn't worry.
-ted
I have a better question for you, what is a fast PCI slot? All the PCI slots I have are the same. I suppose you could mean a 64-bit PCI slot, heh that'd be overkill for a modem.
Dontcha think he meant a 'fast modem' in a PCI configuration? I haven't been able to find the reference you mentioned so I can't read the context.
On a side note: Would a 64-bit PCI slot be better suited for a Video Card than an AGP port? Just curious, I'm not very knowledgable of such things.
"Derp de derp."
Well, it ain't wide in Netscape 4.7, but it sure is long and stupid looking.
I think I'm covered. Every time I complete a cell call, I wash the rays off my head. I also vacuum the car so the photums and quirks and other parmicles don't collect in the carpeting.
Outrunning the rays only works if you cover the antenna in vaseline: vaseline is not a radiacion combuster.
...well it is - I can't see my ISP. Can you?
Global warming controversies are all the rage these days, but all of the arguing scientists and politicians agree: the Sun IS the main thing that is warming the planet.
Write to your Congressman and get him to vote on a bill to recommit NASA to snuffing this thing out once and for all.
There's a high-tech device you can buy which will help with that problem - it's called a chainsaw ;)
For anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area, take a look at Gatespeed.com. For those of us too far from the CO for DSL, where cable modem service isn't available (if you even wanted it), but still want 256k symmetrical or better, check them out. They had it up and running 4 days after I called them to ask about prices and availability. And it costs about the same as IDSL. They'll also give you static IPs, and don't mind if you actually USE the bandwidth you're paying for.
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
You aren't very clever then. Raise an antenna over the top of the trees somewhere, either a small one bolted to a high limb somewhere, or if the trees aren't so tall, put up a 30' pole or so. Run a line down from it, and buy some conduit to put it inside the house.
Only the antenna itself has to be outside the blockage.
The technique in the article relies on the fact that the signal will be bouncing off of various solid objects such as cars, buildings etc. It's not going to help you get over a hill or through trees (which mostly absorb rather than reflect).
:)
As someone else mentioned, in your case the solution is to either get your antenna up higher or make your trees a lot shorter
Broadbandsa require eyestalks? Mesa thinks this great gumbacha for Gungans, but poodoo for humans!
- Jar Jar Binks
You aren't very clever then. Raise an antenna over the top of the trees somewhere, either a small one bolted to a high limb somewhere, or if the trees aren't so tall, put up a 30' pole or so. Run a line down from it, and buy some conduit to put it inside the house.
Isn't that going to bring 1.1 gigawatts into your house during thunderstorms? Handy for running flux capacitors, perhaps, but not so good for electronics.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
You haven't seen my yard or neighborhood. I'm not talking about a few trees here. My yard is more like a forest in the amount and height of mature trees. Most of the trees are well over 50' tall, and those that aren't that tall provide foliage that provides an even better horizontal wall. Add to that the hedge of lilac bushes around the perimeter of the yard, and the large amount of trees in the neighbor's yards and you have not only a large amount of very nice shade and pretty decent privacy, but also a veritable fortress when it comes to getting any form of line of site.
A 30' tall would do little to no good since the trees range in height from 6' tall (lilacs), to 20' (smaller maples), to 50' (largest maples and walnuts). The foliage from all of these trees creates a pretty good area of blockage on both the horizontal and vertical planes.
If I put the antenna up in a high up limb of one of my trees, then the neighbor's trees would do an equally adequate job of blocking the LOS. Also of note is that I don't live in a large city where lots are only marginally larger than the house itself. To reach the edge of my property with antenna cabling to reach an antenna would require a cable that would loose enough dB of signal strength such that the antenna would have to have a pretty high gain on it in order to counteract this. The only other option would be to actually put the access point itself up in the tree, but then I run into the issue of powering the unit, which I suppose is possible via PoE, but generally tends towards being a higher cost of ownership, not to mention digging up my yard to run cable up a tree, which generally defeats the purpose of being 'wireless' in the first place.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
Check out WaveRider Communications LMS4000 900 MHz Modems. We've been selling broadband NLOS systems for over a year, with thousands installed. At 2.75 Mbps raw data rate (up to 1.96 Mbps FTP's!) and a range of up to 10 km in rural areas, they are a great solution (I may be biased, being one of the engineers who designed it). Even better, the majority of installations are indoor, with an antenna mounted by a window, and can be done by the customer.
While Mr Whipple's not around.
-------------------
Seriously, though. I once had a problem when I inverted the microwave switch. Everything outside the microwave was cooked, but the popcorn inside stayed unpopped.
Sprint has field trials going using technology from IP Wireless and Navini Networks [Annoying Flash].
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I'm no expert, but if you get the antenna even a few feet above the canopy, that would be enough, wouldn't it?
As for defeating the purpose of wireless, I think you may have missed the point. The point is getting broadband access, not the fact that you can get it wireless, right? Personally, wireless is only good for my iPaq, and to a lesser extent, my laptop. Put up your own cheap WAP, if that's what you want.
Someone addressed the whole lightning risk thing... again, I'm no expert, but aren't there decent ways to fix this?
Signal loss is a big issue, not sure how I'd handle it. If you're talking cat5, that means you're within 100 meters, which is plenty close to not worry about this. If it is indeed too far for cat5, it's still unlikely to be too far for whatever coax is appropriate for this, is it not?
As for running conduit, you're only talking $1.50 per 10ft... I just checked at Home Depot the other day. It's shitty work, but only ever has to be done once.
totally offtopic, but something I just learned that shocked me.
Mature walnut trees of MUCH smaller stature that what you describe sell for well over $10,000 (USD) if you are willing to have them harvested.
Just FYI if you ever hit rough financial times.
Unfortunately, the trees were never properly pruned when they were younger, so many of them fork and branch at very low heights before reaching their total height. Most of them are quite adequate for building tree forts in, however.
I don't think I ever would allow them to be harvested though, not unless I was about to sell the house and property. I love big trees that provide lots of shade. Luckily there are enough squirrels in my area to carry off and eat all the walnuts that drop to the ground so that I don't need to rake them up.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
oh my god, shut the fuck up!
Why don't people in one location get together: have one person install a fast boardband connection and share that connection by installing
LOS equipment between their houses?
"oh my god, shut the fuck up! "
LOL!! WTF is your problem!? You must be really riled up if you're going to hide behind an AC just to avoid being modded down.
"Derp de derp."
Out here in the "woods" where I live,
I have never had broadband in sight.
You are still a retard.
Are you the same idiot that thinks you have to sign something to enter a contract?
You're forgetting about the part where they make a ton of money off of the advertisements. Ever look at how many attorneys take out full page color adds?
I didn't do it, and if I did, you can't prove it. Bart Simpson
Unlicensed NLOS with a range up to 20 miles. Only supports 14Kb/sec or so, but that's all CDPD supports, and it costs $30/month. Now why hasn't anyone come out with cards running on MURS frequencies? I sure would buy one.
TV is LOS... But I can still pick up the signal THROUGH MY WALL?!? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE!?!?! Obviously you're just a bit clueless yourself since non LOS reception is based on the density material being transimitted through. I can't see much problem in the reception part. But transmitting? Whoa. Depending on where you are relative to the tower, you're going to need a huge signal just to get the data there in one piece. What's the average output of a TV/Radio antenna? How many thousands of watts? Steak won't be the only thing well done at your house. Neighbors will love yas.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Ha! Beat me to it.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Call me when they package a troposcatter antenna in a PCMCIA card..
Weapons of Mass Analysis
I've been a big fan of NLOS wireless for a couple years now. I wish the article had mentioned my favorite wireless vendor, a Canadian company called WaveRider. They have been designing and building LOS and NLOS systems for several years, including ones that are customer-installable (no "truck roll" cost). Their staff is friendly and their service is first rate, and no I don't work for them.