The Empire Strikes Back - in China

jaymzter writes: "Reuters is reporting that Microsoft is dumping $750 million into China over the next three years. According to MS CEO Steve Ballmer, "What's good for the local industry in every country is good for Microsoft", especially when that other country is actually promoting and developing home grown Linux. From the article it looks like MS is willing to overlook China's legendary software 'sharing' as long as the government stays tight with Windows."

Comments

Who wants to bet that Ballmer's nickname as a kid

[corebreech]

was Ball-me?

Had VA thought of this...

[Real World Stuff]

They would be hailed as heroes...not Villified by the /. Groupthinkniks.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[JCCyC]

I get the queasies when I see any Western companies kissing the Chinese govt's butt, be them Open Source or anything else. But M$ is special:

Chinese PM: Linux secure, Windows dangelous. Fuck off.
Ballmer: But Mr. Chairman, Linux promotes freedom, while we promote tyranny! It's us who are you natural allies!!!
Chinese PM: Zounds, you're light! Let's make a deal.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[TommyJr]

Wow. If you are going to use racially oriented phonetic speech, at least get it right.

Fucking round-eyes.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

What a moron.
Do you have any idea what a court ruling is?
Do you have an inkling of the meaning of monopoly?
-
Many people here feel the same about microsoft
because microsoft yanks our collective chain about
once a week. Whether its with the latest virus, business
plan, or ?vision?; microsoft never ceases to amaze
many of us on how out of line this company is on a
consistent basis.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You are so goddamned cool.

Get back to me when you can speak Chinese without an accent.

And it's the Japanese that have no phonetic distinctions between l's and r's.

Fag.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[mmport80]

no, chinese have their difficulties with r's too.

Re:Had VA thought of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. The difference is:

Japanese speak both r's and l's as r's.
Chinese speak both r's and l's as l's.

$750 Million

[shmuc]

Geez... that's it?

Re:$750 Million

[Dutchmaan]

Didn't they spend $500 million on just advertising for the X-Box?

So maybe they're just planning a windows advertising campaign in China...

although I don't know how they'd compete with an OS by a manufacturer with "Red" in it's name..

Re:$750 Million

[Anonymous Coward]

It's interesting that money given to a single individual or small group of individuals in order to alter their behavior is called bribery, but when you distribute the funds throughout a country it's called financial aid.

Re:$750 Million

[arivanov]

If placed correctly as bribes and bribes only it may have the desired effect. Soc officials are not that expensive. Cheaper then advertising for sure.

although I don't know how they'd compete with an OS by a manufacturer with "Red" in it's name..

You do. One cool movie has attributed the following saying to one of the ex-soc sector nations: As our bulgarian friends say, what cannot be bought with money can be bought with a lot of money

Re:$750 Million

[Anonymous Coward]

$750M is worth considerably more in China than it is in the U.S.

Re:$750 Million

[thetman]

Unless you give it to Africa, in which case it's called futility.

Re:$750 Million

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, that's a lot. If they were to do the same with only 52 more countries, they'd exhaust their available cash.

Re:$750 Million

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.... I wonder if this is just Microsoft giving away software and calling it a $750 million "investment". Since Windows is pretty much "free" in China anyway, the announcement seems pretty meaningless to me.

Re:$750 Million

[Anonymous Coward]

$750 million can do a lot.

Heck, Amtrak only gets $500 million a year.

But...

[MayorDefacto]

What we all need to ask ourselves is this: is what's good for Microsoft good for the rest of us? I think we already know the answer...

Re:But...

[NanoGator]

"What we all need to ask ourselves is this: is what's good for Microsoft good for the rest of us?"

I'm better off with Microsoft. Solitaire makes me look busy.

Re:But...

[IXI]

What we all need to ask ourselves is this: is what's good for Microsoft good for the rest of us? I think we already know the answer...

Oh yes, err no, well, of course, no, I mean yes I know, no -- you know what I mean?

Re:But...

[Alien Being]

Exactly. He's hinting at the old fallacy "What's good for GM is good for America". We see right thru you monkey boy.

To see how well that GM theory worked out back then, take a look at this documentary:

http://www.newday.com/films/Taken_for_a_Ride.htm l

it has to be said

[serano]

See what competition can do....

Re:it has to be said

[Anonymous Coward]

It also has to be said that our government (our taxes) are now effectively subsidizing the Chinese government. This looks terrible considering that US laws like the DMCA make things difficult for MS's only true "competition"...open source...all while this monopolist runs amok. Will Microsoft be investing $750 mil in the US? No, they'll be sicking their lawyers on anyone trying too hard to make marginalized systems compatible with their hegemony.

I wonder if our bureaucrats can get a copy of Windows XP for the price that they're selling them in China.

No, I actually don't wonder about that.

Birds of a feather

[Anonymous Coward]

Some would say considering China's human rights record.... that M$ and China would make a good team.

Re:Birds of a feather

[cosmosis]

Absolutely. Its all so clear to me now, just when I thought M$ couldn't be totally bent on World Domination, along comes this story. I think when you look at the bigger picture, M$ in the socio-political landscape is starting to behave and act like a country into itself. And now with its introduction of Palladium, and the secret meetings between top staff at Microsoft and the leaders withing the US Intelligence Community, its becoming clear just how powerful and ambitious M$ really is. I don't think there is any precedent like it in history. I'mleft feeling "WOW", except not in a good way at all.

Re:Birds of a feather

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Gates and Ballmer are both well known ruthless killers. Microsoft imprisons thousands if not millions of people for speaking their minds and puts them in labor camps to write programs to sell to the west. Ha ha. Very funny.

Re:Birds of a feather

[Alex Belits]

I don't think there is any precedent like it in history.

Churches. Almost all of them that survived by now.

Re:Birds of a feather

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and the good ol' U.S. of A's record is absolutely spotless...

Re:Birds of a feather

[NeuroChrist]

starting to behave and act like a country into itself

Well, if you remember, MS was the #5 seed in the UN March Madness this past year, and was up against #12, Cuba, in the first round. SatireWire So I would guess that they are a country. Perhaps they'll field a World Cup team in 2006?

Re:Birds of a feather

[mpe]

Absolutely. Its all so clear to me now, just when I thought M$ couldn't be totally bent on World Domination, along comes this story. I think when you look at the bigger picture, M$ in the socio-political landscape is starting to behave and act like a country into itself.

US corporations have been pushing nation states around for quite a while. The difference is that usually they pick on the small and weak (China isn't either) and they call on US militry forces for help.

And now with its introduction of Palladium, and the secret meetings between top staff at Microsoft and the leaders withing the US Intelligence Community, its becoming clear just how powerful and ambitious M$ really is.

Does "Intelligence Community" include the CIA, who are quite adept at fighting covert wars...

I don't think there is any precedent like it in history

The Catholic church in the middle ages comes to mind as an organisation capable of subverting civil government.

Re:Birds of a feather

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and the good ol' U.S. of A's record is absolutely spotless...

Where do you think that China got the idea of how to hijack Tibet from?

Re:Birds of a feather

[sql*kitten]

Does "Intelligence Community" include the CIA, who are quite adept at fighting covert wars...

As they so ably demonstrated at the Bay of Pigs? As Neal Stephenson says in Cryptonomicon, Microsoft are 10x smarter and 100x as agressive as any mere government.

But... they'll be hungry again 1/2 hour later.

[simetra]

Rimshot!

Microsofts point of view...

[Rasta Prefect]

With active promotion of Linux in China, Microsoft has to be realizing that it's better to let rampant piracy of their products continue and make some profit from those who do buy than to allow the creating of a large incubator for Linux - something that could potentially threaten their market share in countries with more enforced IP laws.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[dubiousmike]

Having worked for a few commercial software companies, one being a music software company that was one of the more pirated at the time, I found that the company's standpoint on piracy was that it was not all that bad, in most cases.

Those who will use your software in a professional capacity will usually pay for it.

Those who will not use it in a professional capacity, will learn it and possible work for an employer who either already owns it or will likely buy it for said "now former non-professional" to use it.

At the end of the day, you have an increased user base. Revenue doesn't really change as the non-professionals wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

Of course, I didn't work for Microsoft or a similar company who's products are meant for absolutely everyone (in their book) and thus every pirated copy really is considered lost revenue.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[Jason Earl]

The problem with this is that it is a stop gap measure at best. Microsoft can't afford to pay everyone to use their software.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[SN74S181]

Microsoft has to be realizing that it's better to let rampant piracy of their products continue and make some profit from those who do buy

Microsoft has known that for decades. They are very loose about license enforcement for individuals and for people who dabble in software. All the people who mess around with Excel at home are the best kind of advocates to have in the office, where they're much more strict about collecting their dollar.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[fferreres]

Well, if you missuse your car, you license to use it is revoked. If you pirated MS stuff in the past, you should be prohibited to use it in the future. Wouldn't it be nice? MS would have like 10% market share by now...

Now, getting serious, this is what microsoft has always done to promote their monopoly. If you can pirate microsoft stuff why would you want to use anything else? So small competitors have a hard time.

If only the antitrust could see that piracy is Microsoft #1 allie, they'd see how to end the monopoly: a _flat_ price for EVERYONE. And _strong_ antipiracy from "day 1".

It's so cheap that it works. They let you get away on porpuse for some time and then, when everyone uses it, they claim "oh, look how much harm piracy is doing us, all this lost revenue!". Well, if you wouldn't have let them pirate your stuff in the first place, then COMPETITION could have taken place, and low cost alternativs would have appeared.

God, it's so simple. I guess MS and the goverment must have some kind of secret deal. But the rest of the world is beggining to suspect so they are in trouble.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[_Upsilon_]

Those who will use your software in a professional capacity will usually pay for it. Those who will not use it in a professional capacity, will learn it and possible work for an employer who either already owns it or will likely buy it for said "now former non-professional" to use it. At the end of the day, you have an increased user base. Revenue doesn't really change as the non-professionals wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

This is essentially the point of view which I've looked upon all this for years.

I believe that there should be a 'personal use' license for most of the big software packages out there. They could make it downloadable (even if it did require registartion) or put it in the stores without hard-copy manuals, or a box. Sell them in a shrinkwrapped jewel case and price it like an audio CD.

The pros would still pay for it, and it would do wonders for increasing the user base.

I believe, IMHO, that people would be more than willing to pay for good software if the prices were not as absurd as they are now (for big packages anyways, think MS Office, or Adobe PhotoShop)

Geoff Holden

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[HD Webdev]

Of course, I didn't work for Microsoft or a similar company who's products are meant for absolutely everyone (in their book) and thus every pirated copy really is considered lost revenue.

Not really. It isn't lost revenue since almost every pirated M$copy bumps out the competitions software. (pirated M$ software results in files that need M$ softare to decode also)

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[adgriffi]

You mean I'm supposed to PAY for my software????

I thought it was all free...

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[jaoswald]

I think Microsoft's view is probably more forward-looking than this.

I suspect that MS believes that by investing in China, they can build up China's domestic software industry. That domestic industry will find that their business will be much more profitable if their intellectual property rights could be protected.

Western companies complaining about piracy probably doesn't mean squat to the Chinese government. They figure that piracy of western software helps keep China's foreign reserves higher, while still allowing the domestic economy to benefit from the software. When Chinese software starts getting pirated, the Chinese businessmen are going to start working their connections to get the government to crack down. Plus, the pirate shops will start getting legitimate contracts to produce domestic software.

I'll bet that the Chinese government will sit up and take notice when it's not just foreigners asking for copyright enforcement. And that, eventually, will redound to Microsoft's benefit.

Or, maybe Bill Gates figures he's got 40 billion dollars to piss away just because he feels like it. NOT.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[fferreres]

"...and thus every pirated copy really is considered lost revenue"

Yeah it's lost revenue, right. But here's the exact lost revenue we are talking about: lost revenue for a competitor. Why? Because who would voluntarily pay for a price-performance compromise solution when you can get away with the no-compromise thing for FREE. That's how a pirate thinks and we have at least once been pirates. For that to work you need some people to pay. Who then? Companies or no-choice OEM bundles. And that's where most MS revenues come from.

Pretty easy, let people pirate and the established monopoly wins all battles (when they want to fight them, like Browser war, Office war and now may the "war against cyberterror" (Palladium)).

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but this is the second country they've paid off. (Remember what happened after Mexico planned to put Linux in all its schools).

It just shows how shit-scared these pricks are of Linux.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[mmport80]

The main point though, is that people in china (and developing countries) simply can't afford spending a couple of hundred dollars on software. Therefore piracy.

Re:Microsofts point of view...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Those who will use your software in a professional capacity will usually pay for it."

Heh, but this is China. I had to fight to get our Chinese offices to actually buy the stuff. Every new computer comes so chock-full-O-crap that the hard drives have to be wiped.

Even subsidiaries of foreign-owned corporations don't necessarily properly license their OSes or applications. If BSA had any power there, it would be so much fun for them.

This is the land where for a long time the military handled CD pressing facilities which pirated software for sale both inside China and in Hong Kong.

Even those who use software in a professional capacity pirate or buy pirated copies. It is rampant and endemic. Changing the mindset of the users will be impossible in the short-run.

This is all your fault !

[cobbaut]

If all these slashdot geeks would have just SHUT UP about big markets (country's) going to Linux, then maybe M$ would never have noticed this. (Microsoft also reads Slashdot...)

So from now on no more Linux success stories on /. OK!

Re:This is all your fault !

[getter_85]

uh... how big of an idiot are you?

Re:This is all your fault !

[Anonymous Coward]

"Aye aye, Admiral Butthead." -- Homer J Simpson.

Re:This is all your fault !

[kb3hag]

hmm, really? microsoft may be trying to win over linus but in the end it is all the users choice of operating systems. let microsoft read slashdot, in the end the users (and pirates, ehh) will decided.

Re:This is all your fault !

[Anonymous Coward]

don't tell me you didn't see the smiley...
come on...who's the freaking idiot ?

cheers

Re:This is all your fault !

[kb3hag]

corrections, "win over linus" win over linux P.S. In the end it is all the users choice

Re:This is all your fault !

[getter_85]

Anonymous COWARD

too many cowards. They hide behind anonymity so I can't tell them personally why theire posts are ill-thought-out and based on immaginary pixels that the author sees.

Re:This is all your fault !

[NanoGator]

"So from now on no more Linux success stories on /. OK! "

Yeah!! Stories like "KDE now supports anti-aliased fonts!" has Microsoft scrambling to buy up a large market!

hey Ballmer

[Patrick13]

Hey Steve-O--

my friends and I pirate MS software too, give us $750,000,000 too. What's good for us is good for the net economy...

Re:hey Ballmer

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Patric

At your post at the Internet News Service "slashdot" provided by VA System you confessed
that you own and use pirated products of the Microsoft cooperation. Please report immidiately
to the next Microsoft copyright correction center.
Otherwise we will file a legal case at the seattle state court against you and your family.

Re:hey Ballmer

[Anonymous Coward]

you own and use pirated products of the Microsoft cooperation

I thought you didn't "own" MS software?

Re:hey Ballmer

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Microsoft will sue Americans who are making jokes about piracy
2. but will allow Chinese to copy their software without any penalty.

Are you Americans hard to understand
Marko, Slovenia

Re:hey Ballmer

[sean23007]

Seattle is a state?

Re:hey Ballmer

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe as part of the deal M$ can send offenders to Chinese re-education camps?!

Dunno what they'd teach them, though. "Linux is the running lackey dog of communism, er, try Linux is Un-American, er, no, er distributing software for free is bad, er..."

Dirt cheap compared to population

[Anonymous Coward]

$750 million.... that's still less than a dollar per person.

Isn't the MS Tax about $30 at the OEM level? Spend .50 to make $30, that's quite a ROI.

-RabbitFish

Re:Dirt cheap compared to population

[SirRichardPumpaloaf]

Of course, that's assuming that every single person buys a Windows PC. I take it you're in Marketing?

Good news/bad news

[Dark Paladin]

The Good News:

China gets an even bigger IT infrastructure.

The Bad News:

They spend most of it on hardware upgrades. Forever.

The Good News:

More technical knowledge of computers in the country.

The Bad News:

It's all directed at creating anti-Pallendrome mod chips.

The Good News:

More people in China get onto the Internet!

The Bad News:

All they can get is MSN, and only if they use Internet Explorer.

The Good News:

China gets to upgrade their military computers.

The Bad News:

The first BSOD launches WWIII.

Re:Good news/bad news

[getter_85]

The Bad News:

The first BSOD launches WWIII.

This is why I don't rely on M$ products... they ten to crash more than the alternative(s).

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anomolous Cow Herd]

The first BSOD launches WWIII.

WHooo hoo hoooo! Oh man, you had me fall out of my chair laughing, fatty!

Did you guys get it? He said that when teh computar crashes, it startz world war three, 'cause M$ sucx0rz! HAR HAR HAR! It'd be even funnier if any even remotely current Microsoft operating system actually crashed (hint: they don't)

Re:Good news/bad news

[cruelworld]

I used to believe that Windows 2000 was stable.

If I'm logged in as Administrator and using Internet Explorer, it will eventually hang my machine.

This also happens to at least two other people that I know.

Re:Good news/bad news

[getter_85]

It'd be even funnier if any even remotely current Microsoft operating system actually crashed (hint: they don't)

that's funny in and of itself...

my sister's WinXP machine crashed not more than an hour ago... when she was playing solitaire

Re:Good news/bad news

[kb3hag]

i use admin with ie for days at a time wth no reboots and it has never hanged on me, mabey you are defective?

Re:Good news/bad news

[the_machine]

If I'm logged in as Administrator and using Internet Explorer, it will eventually hang my machine.

Well, there's your problem. You are actually trying to use it for something more than a screen saver.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you is certainly "admin material".

Goop grasp of english, you has there.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the deal:

You linux zealots like to dis Microsoft.

Why? Because linux is still far from what Microsoft has accomplished with Windows. I'm talking about the desktop here people, which is the bread and butter of the industry. Don't get me wrong, I love linux. But, if you want Linux on the desktop, get off your ass and do something about it. Can't code? No problem! File bug reports, make some icons, create themes... something. Find a way to make a difference.

Linux WILL take over Microsoft's share eventually.. it's just a question of when. Get off your asses people and make a difference.

Thanks,
Linus

Re:Good news/bad news

[SN74S181]

The good news is that with Microsoft's penchant for continuing to add hardware requirements year after year for their current product, they render huge amounts of older equipment useless for running Windows. The huge surplus of said cheap used equipment for the geeks is really why Linux has succeeded.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Jaysyn]

Heh, give your email so I can send you mem dumps of some of my nicer bluescreens (yes XP gets them too they're called stop errors.)

Jaysyn

Re:Good news/bad news

[HiThere]

I like to dis MS because:
1) I am sometimes compelled to use it, whether I want to or not (office politics)
2) I dislike closed & proprietary pseudo-standards
3) I dislike companies that consider me a replaceable resource
4) I've read some of their licenses
5) I've read excerpts from the XP licenses

There are probably many more good reasons, but those are my top five.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Archie Steel]

If I played Half-Life and paused twice in a row it did a reboot (Windows 2000). I've heard of quite a few WinXP crashes as well. Don't confuse "crashes less than Windows 98" with "never crashes". Oh, and regarding "current" Microsoft operating system: according to my weblogs, as many people still use Win98 and WinMe as Win2k and WinXP...

All in all, Windows is still less stable than a well-configured Linux system (with a non-experimental kernel), IMO.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anomolous Cow Herd]

Well, that's nice, but in intelligent circles (I.E. outside of your realm), people who present anecdotal evidence as proof or disproof of a theory are laughed out of their profession. Stating simply that your sister's WinXP machine crashed tells us absolutely nothing useful and is the stuff that (to use a slashdork term) FUD is made of.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Archie Steel]

IIRC correctly, you did not propose a theory, but rather made an arbitrary assertion, something along the lines "Current Microsoft OSes don't crash." Not "rarely crash" or "crash less often than they used to" or even "crash less than other OSes". Now, to give examples that current Microsoft OSes (by that I assume you mean Win2k and WinXP) can crash, as some of us have done, is indeed proof that your assertion is in itself not true (i.e. they do crash, regardless of actual frequency of occurence). Now, if you have an actual theory to formulate, we can have an intelligent conversation. Otherwise you'll just end up offering opinion as fact, as you did in your original post.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Dimensio]

While I'm certainly not going to excuse the problem you are reporting, I should note that I don't have that problem and that you really shouldn't be running under an Administrator account for extended periods of time.

(I run an Admin account at work because that's how the brilliant network admins set things up -- at home I have a "Standard User" account that I use for normal activities).

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

"my sister's WinXP machine crashed not more than an hour ago... when she was playing solitaire"

That's the problem right there, running an application, even a small one. I have found Windows to be extremely stable if you simply don't mess with it by running applications. But users insist on doing just that, poking and prodding, clicking and dragging, making demands on the OS, and then they're surprised when the thing crashes and blame Microsoft. Same thing with viruses, users running things, and clicking on things, and displaying things with executable content, busy, busy, busy subverting the function of what is otherwise a very stable operating system.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well, that's nice, but in intelligent circles..."

Tinky Winky : All a are b.

La La : c is a but not b.

Po & Dipsy : Uh oh!

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the deal:

You GNU/Linux zealots like to dis Microsoft.

Why? Because GNU/Linux is still far from what Microsoft has accomplished with Windows. I'm talking about the desktop here people, which is the bread and butter of the industry. Don't get me wrong, I love GNU/Linux. But, if you want GNU/Linux on the desktop, get off your ass and do something about it. Can't code? No problem! File bug reports, make some GNU/icons, create GNU/themes... something. Find a way to make a difference.

GNU/Linux WILL take over Microsoft's share eventually.. it's just a question of when. Get off your asses people and make a GNU/difference.

Thanks,

Richard M. Stallman

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, have discovered the number one best way to get modded up on Slashdot. A hundred thousand others have done it before you, but it is still surprising that someone would go out of their way to voice an opinion that can't be safely disagreed with. I guess you just love the safety of it, don't you?

Re:Good news/bad news

[swordboy]

Clerk: The toppings contain potassium benzoate.

Clerk: That's bad.

Homer: Can I go now?

Re:Good news/bad news

[Lord Ender]

Honestly, I would think your problems are being caused by faulty hardware or power flucuations or faulty drivers. A properly configured Win2k box DOES NOT lock up. I mean I have run a desktop machine for months with not a single lockup.

Re:Good news/bad news

[The Creator]

>...ing to add hardware requirements yea...useless for running Windows...The huge surplus of said cheap used...ally why Linux has succeed...

Yeah till KDE came along and changed all that :(

Re:Good news/bad news

[Archie Steel]

As far as drivers go, well, that's kind of a truism...crashes are nearly always caused by faulty drivers. But my hardware works very well, thank you. Since I've installed Mandrake, I have yet to experience a single total lockup (I have had to kill X by SSHing to my machine a couple of times, but even that has been pretty rare). So my troubles are gone (and so is Win2K, except in a VMWare session). And it wasn't power fluctuations either: the unwanted reboot (not lockup) was very reproducible.

I agree that it is rather rare: my Win2K box at work stays on for weeks, and it has only locked up two or three times in a year.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Archie Steel]

I don't really care about being modded up - I've been at 50 karma for a couple of weeks now and I'm bored. I was merely replying to the previous poster's obviously false statement with an obviously true statement - to which you added your own truism. So...what's your point, exactly?

Moderators: please mod this down, so I can have the thrill of working my way up to 50 again!

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFLMAO!!!

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

WinXP with an NVidia card will bluescreen if you try and run Sid Meiers Civilization (the original).
I have to specify the NVidia card, because I don't have another video card to test with.

That's not an 'anecdote', or a 'story', it's a verifiable fact.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

All bluescreens are called stop errors dude :D

It's been 19 seconds since I hit reply! Fuck, I'm glad slashdot is here to tell me things like that.

Re:Good news/bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

It sucks to be funny without recognition.

Here's some recognition!

They will strike 'piracy' later..

[aralin]

Seems that Microsoft finally noticed that not everybody is equal and although Europe and US are already hooked on their drugs, China is still not and so they just need to back up a little, distribute for free a little while longer, before they will collect. And China is a potential market of the size of Europe and US together. So be sure they will collect eventually.

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[kcbrown]

What I have to wonder is whether or not people in the U.S. and in Europe notice that they're getting significantly worse treatment than China from Microsoft and decide to do something about it.

Of course, probably nothing would come from that anyway, what with "intellectual property" being so screwed up in the west ("What's ours is ours, and what's yours is ours. Now bend over!", say the corporations, with the court system seemingly going along with this).

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[Anonymous Coward]

Suckers aren't we?!

Can't expect any action from the Shrub administration, but I think the EU should start asking questions... Make Ballmer an offer he can't refuse "Give us a better deal or we weaken OS piracy laws". Hee hee hee

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[Rimbo]

I'm probably posting this far too late for anyone to read it, but here goes...

Actually, the bit about the new deal that struck me was this: "He said China had not made any specific pledges in return."

In other words, China has absolutely no obligation to do anything for Microsoft.

China gets 3/4 of a billion bucks, that they can spend how they please. And they don't have to do anything in return for this.

China has a long history of making it very difficult for corporations outside of China to make money. Corporations are attracted to China because of the immense size of the market, but the Chinese government typically structures the deals benefit the Chinese government, and the companies are lucky to break even.

Also, despite the fact that in Chinese culture you return kindness for kindness with your family and friends, the same is not true for business.

What it all comes down to is this: Microsoft will be lucky to get just a symbolic act. Maybe a highly-publicized "raid" on a handful of small-time software distributors? Who knows? But if they get free money, with no need to do anything in return...

...the evidence suggests that they won't do anything in return.

The suckers in this case are the folks in Redmond. They are basically throwing their money away.

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[mpe]

China has a long history of making it very difficult for corporations outside of China to make money. Corporations are attracted to China because of the immense size of the market, but the Chinese government typically structures the deals benefit the Chinese government, and the companies are lucky to break even.

Sounds like a government actually doing it's job, rather than allowing their country to be exploited by foreign corporations.
Wonder how helpful the US government would be to a corporation based in China wishing to operate in the US...

The suckers in this case are the folks in Redmond. They are basically throwing their money away

With this and the X-Box how long will Microsoft's reserves last?

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[Rimbo]

"Sounds like a government actually doing it's job, rather than allowing their country to be exploited by foreign corporations."

Hardly. If a government wants to keep itself from being exploited, they can institute a minimum wage, limit work hours, limit the age people can work at, allow collective bargaining, and then enforce these laws. Just like the United States does.

China doesn't give a damn if their workers are exploited. They go ahead and allow this, and then the government itself reaps the profits from the exploitation of their own people.

This is largely why true democracy and checks and balances are necessary to prevent exploitation.

Re:They will strike 'piracy' later..

[Rimbo]

Whoops! Hit "submit" before I'd answered everything.

"Wonder how helpful the US government would be to a corporation based in China wishing to operate in the US..."

One only need to look at the Chinese corporations and citizens who do business and live in this country to see the evidence of just how helpful our government is: Our government provides a wonderful environment for people to do business here. That's why our universities attract the best and brightest in the world, and why every day thousands of people risk their lives to cross the border to work as hard as they can in this country.

"With this and the X-Box how long will Microsoft's reserves last?"

A long, long, long time. Microsoft has so many billions in cash -- this isn't even one of those billions. Microsoft could release a handful of Xboxes, each one less successful than the last, and never even get near the bottom of the Fortune 500.

How long can they keep it up?

[sterno]

Microsoft has huge reserves, don't get me wrong, but it seems like, more and more, they are having to spend a lot of money to fend off their competition. 750 million is only a drop in the bucket, but it does add up eventually.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Sabalon]

Depends on how they are "spending" it. Are they giving away licenses to Windows? If so, what is the cost to them - $0.

Lets see them really donate $750mil by going to CompuUSA or something, buying $750mil copies of WinXP and shipping it over there.

Hell...I can give you $4BILLION worth of RedHat...buy one cd for $69 amount and print up a certificate saying you can copy/install it 5.7million times.

It's like the case a bit ago where they were gonna help everyone out by giving them their software which'll cost them minimal cd costs.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[_ph1ux_]

good point. I wonder if that means that they get to write off 750mil...

Kramer: Jerry, just write it off.

Jerry: what? what do you mean write it off?

Kramer: big companies do it all the time.

Jerry: you dont even know what a write is, do you?

Kramer: ....

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[carlos_benj]

750 million is only a drop in the bucket, but it does add up eventually.

You know, 750 million here, 750 million there, it all adds up and soon you're talking about real money.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Monkeyman334]

Actually, Microsoft doesn't have the nasty habit of charging for bandwidth on updates and charging money for support. Or asking for donations all the time. $4billion in RedHat means jack, $4 billion in windows licenses means you get free updates for years, and plenty of online support. None of that preferred treatment for $$$ crap.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Support? From Microsoft? You must be on crack. The only support you'll get from them is if you have a massive support contract with them or you pay by the minute. Neither one is free.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Ian Bicking]

If you are donating something to a charity, you only get to write off the actual cost to you, not the retail cost. Of course, this isn't even a charity, it's China, so it doesn't matter.

And they get to write off the actual cost anyway -- any business expenses are deducted from gross revenue. Not that it matters anyway, MS hardly pays any taxes.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[_ph1ux_]

"MS hardly pays any taxes"

Well - maybe in terms of percentage points - but if you look at the actual dollar amount - I think you will find that it is quite a large sum.

The point I was making is that if they can write off the "cost to them" they can claim some arbitrary amount as the cost to microsoft is negligable.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Sabalon]

Actually, I think it's a pay-by-the-case thing. We have a MSDN subscription and get a few freebies a year for "non-production" issues. ;)

One time we called them with a DFS issue, they never could come up with an answer other than reinstall the whole domain.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Anonymous Coward]

He, heeee a city with chinese speaking support staf? The redmond-china-support-town. Their support does not speak english now we are talking chinese...

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[cooldev]

Heh, that Seinfield skit reminds me of AOL's little $54 billion write off.

Best I can tell that's how it works; AOL stock went up after they announced it (the biggest writeoff in history).

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[bleckywelcky]

Many people seem to be noting that $750 million is a drop in the bucket for Microsoft, but I would tend to disagree. Last I read, Microsoft had $40 billion in liquid assets, with liquidity equal to or less than 1 year. And $750 million is .75 billion, almost 1 billion. Looking at these numbers, that is 1/40th of Microsoft's total liquid assets. Sure, it is over three years, but let us assume that in each additional year, Microsoft has another $40 billion in liquid assets available (although it could quite possible be less than that). Overall, that is still 1/120th of Microsoft's total liquid assets in the particular time period... almost 1%. That is quite a decent amount to be spending to supposedly 'help build' China's market for the good of it.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not free, but still dirt cheap in the big scheme of things.

MS is in the software business, not the support business, unlike most of their competitors. It's a break-even operation.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't recall Red Hat ever asking for donations.

Only their "premium business" plan thingie costs money for bandwidth. I've upgraded RH for free since 5.2, so I guarantee you that the individual does not have to pay for this.

Microsoft's tech support pricing is almost identical to RH's -- you get a licensed copy, you get near-useless install tech support for a short period of time. You can also get corporate-level support, which is expensive.

Frankly, I see RH consumer-level service being roughly equivalent to MS, but their product being far superior.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[mpe]

Actually, Microsoft doesn't have the nasty habit of charging for bandwidth on updates and charging money for support.

Microsoft charge for support on a per incident basis. They try and push over a lot of support costs onto OEM's too. Microsoft have even been known to charge when they can't fix a problem or for supplying a bug fix they chose not to put up on the windowsupdate site.
If you look through the MS Knowlage Base you will find quite a few cases where there is a fix but you have to phone Microsoft to get it.

Re:How long can they keep it up?

[cybercuzco]

Pledge of Allegiance: One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all... As long as you buy into the Judeo-Christian creation myth, otherwise youre not part of america and you dont get any liberty and justice, sorry.

Ballmer's Quote

[PoiBoy]

According to MS CEO Steve Ballmer, "What's good for the local industry in every country is good for Microsoft."

This is an interesting quote coming from Ballmer. While individual industries benefit from less competition, consumers and the economy as a whole are better off with more competition. After reading this quote, my first reaction was that he was stating that competition was good for everyone, including Microsoft. Then I realized it was Ballmer saying this.

Re:Ballmer's Quote

[alsta]

I think that Mr. Ballmer means:

"What's good for Microsoft in every country is good for Microsoft."

Otherwise they wouldn't be doing this, would they?

Question is, are they actually going to provide $750MM in cash or are they going to provide software licenses? Remember that class-action settlement where they proposed to give schools licenses "worth" a certain amount of money? $750MM in non-transferable licenses doesn't really put food on peoples tables.

Re:Ballmer's Quote

[IXI]

Interesting thought indeed, Mr. Ballmer. The local industry I'm working for depends on Free Software, so Free Software is good for Micro$oft and you should start supporting it.

Communistic and UnAmerican!

[Jon Howard]

...wait a second - you said Microsoft?

I'd like to see the hat that Bill Gates should be eating right now.

Uhm I though MS was going for anti piracy

[hooded1]

I'm not usually a big anti microsoft guy, but from my point of view (IE zero experience in marketing) this seems like a stupid decision. Microsoft has been spending ac rap load of money in this country to combat piracy. American piracy is nothing compared to Chinese piracy. its like comparing communism and capitalism... Oh wait it IS comparing capitalism and communism.

Yes yes i know that china has had an open door policy for a while now as far as foreign markets go and yes there are thousand of american companies making money there. The point i'm really trying to get across is that the market in china would be much different than it is here. Computers are not very prominent in most people's lives there. The biggest market i can see this in is the business market there.

Re:Uhm I though MS was going for anti piracy

[Deusin]

Fighting piracy costs quite a bit of money and yields them next to nothing in the Chinese market. Increasing sales and eating, however unpleasant it must be to the MS Executives, the piracy "losses" is probably an acceptable tradeoff. Also, piracy can be dealt with later when they've been reeled in far enough. Without getting overly anti-MS, it's not enough to dominate one market when there is more unconquered territory that looks so ripe from Redmond.

Re:Uhm I though MS was going for anti piracy

[good-duckspeak]

and yes there are thousand of american companies making money there.

MS loves the idea of making money selling enabling technology to the Chineese gummint to help them repress their citizens.

Now that AOL has shown the way I'm sure lots of corporations will see that there is plenty of money to be made assisting human rights abuses and control of information.

Riiiiiiiiight...

[Anomolous Cow Herd]

especially when that other country is actually promoting and developing home grown Linux.

Yes, of course M$ is out to get you, Linux!! That's what everyone thinks about before they make major business decisions: "If I do this, can I screw over Linux better???"

Face it, Linux is such a joke on the desktop that it is hardly important enough to consider when making major business decisions in a profitable corporation.

Re:Riiiiiiiiight...

[Dalcius]

I'll bite.

You obviously don't know anything about Linux.
From GCN:
"BALLMER: Linux is not dominant in the market, but we get paid to focus in on competitive threats, and it's a really competitive threat."
He goes on about this. There was a recent interview (I think on CNN, I searched quickly and couldn't find it) where he says the same thing -- Linux is a high priority concern for MS.

A poster on /. recently added:
"I work for an SI company. A large one. With a huge degree of MS-related
work. The MS reps tell *us* that they can commit MS resources (i.e.
spend MS money) to help us win projects IF Linux or Apache are involved.

We're talking about people's time at many thousands of dollars per day.
However much we need. They won't do it for almost any other project...
So I'd say yes, they see it as a threat."

Linux is not a joke on the desktop. You obviously haven't tried it recently. Red Hat Linux 7.x is just as easy to install as Windows, and comes with almost all you need. A quick, guided installation of Ximian GNOME and you're set, IMO. I find it's easier to use than Windows. And don't give me anything about a learning curve -- Windows has a learning curve as well.

" Face it, Linux is such a joke on the desktop that it is hardly important enough to consider when making major business decisions in a profitable corporation."

Well, let's see:
Disney isn't profitable?
Hollywood graphics rendering companies aren't profitable?
Merril Lynch isn't profitable?
HP?
DELL?
IBM?

Why are 27% of servers shipped today shipped with Linux?

Here's a website you might find interesting with a loooong list of companies invested in Linux.

Everyone makes mistakes, but you're just blatantly arrogant and ignorant. Please do some research before posting extremely retarded comments.

Re:Riiiiiiiiight...

[Anonymous Coward]

How did I removed windows 9x and NT off my desktop? I had to clean and the registry everytime before shutdown, remove aureate.com spyware from registry whenever I see them. On the other partition it has NT on it. NTFS also have a bad tendency to create huge fragmentations, had to run diskeeper all the time.

But it was such a joke it crap out on install, BSOD when installing SCSI driver, after 4 (NT) service paks, it BSOD when ejecting a CD, such orgasm! And Word 97 crashes just about every 5 minutes and I could never finish one single document without it going berserk.

I thought I could use a free C and C++ compiler, not a full time Linux desktop, well Linux works well so far, at least for the last five years I had about 3 crashes. I have all the apps I need. Linux is a nice engine underneath, and then there are Gnome and KDE, they just keep getting better and better. Nautilus is a truly kick ass file manager that make the Windows explorer looks like toys.

For developing apps I had to buy expensive book from MS Press and SDK just to read the API, while I can get Linux API online. It is obvious why I moved entirely to Linux, because I wake up and see all the problems with Windows.

And you tell me coporation want to make profit has to use Windows? What an idiot.

dosent matter

[Ksop]

linux open relay
or
windows open relay

were all still going to get spam from china

Re:dosent matter

[Lao-Tzu]

It does so matter.

A windows open relay will have more downtime. Yippee!

Re:dosent matter

[The-Dork]

I think its not fair to blame Asia for spam. A lot of spam that I get are for European and American sex sites.
Aren't they to blame too?
For resorting to spam in the first place and since their own laws are strict, they hire someone else to do the dirty work for them because the poor guy needs the money.
I think they are the main culprits here.

Re:dosent matter

[Silverhammer]

I think its not fair to blame Asia for spam.

One of the biggest and most consistent sources of spam in the world is cn.net. So says SpamCop. So says SpamHaus. The spams may be for American and European sites, but it's a Chinese ISP that's providing the spamming services.

For resorting to spam in the first place and since their own laws are strict, they hire someone else to do the dirty work for them because the poor guy needs the money.

Sooo... spamming is okay if the spammer is poor enough?

Re:dosent matter

[The-Dork]

Sooo... spamming is okay if the spammer is poor enough?

In a way, yes. (and I am surprised at myself for saying this) Here are a few examples:
- Where does most of the toxic dump from the US go? No prizes for the right answer
- Where do most of the software maintenance contracts and other stuff that nobody here wants to do go to: India, China, Russia.

Why? There is only two reasons: cost and laws.
But I think it comes back to bite us sooner or later if the anti-dumping measures by China and call by American workers to stop H1-B visas is any sign.

In the same vein I think the websites for whom the spammers do this dirty work should be made accountable first.
Make then pay for every dollar that they taunt these spam server admins with. Attack the roots of the problem; not just a branch.

And I DONOT endorse spam in anyway. Hell it is a Royal PITA.

Re:dosent matter

[Anonymous Coward]

No... First we get the branches out of the way, then we slash and burn the trunk.

Re:dosent matter

[The-Dork]

If you cut off one branch another will grow. (TM)

There are many countries that wont mind doing this business if they get paid in dollars which goes a long way in their countries.

HURR HURR HURR

[Anonymous Coward]

i r slashdot poster. anything microsoft bad. anything not ms gud.

Nothing like cold hard currency to catch the eye..

[freerangegeek]

How lovely that an illegal monopolist is using it's ill gained cash to empower a repressive regime all in the name of extending their brand! Microsoft, the Imperial Robber Barons of the 21st century.

Power really does make strange bedfellows.

its a tough shot

[rlthomps-1]

Its going to be tough dealing with that piracy, but in terms of corporate software, there is a ton of money to be made there.

The other problem is dealing with nationalism. Many countries are starting to push their own homegrown platforms because they don't want their computing industry tethered to America.

In any case, Microsoft is the poster child of "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again" This is only the start... it will be interesting to watch.

Re:its a tough shot

[getter_85]

what do you suggest? that they all migrate to linux before the end of the month?

Get real. I know linux has been proven to perform better, but we can't do anything about this China shit anyway.

I knew people on slashdot whine too much, but this is rediculous.

"What is done, is done." -Whi7e H4x0r BuNNi

Re:Microsofts point of view... (offtopic)

[qubit64]

This sounds a lot like how the US used to (and with some countries still does) treat communism. (domino)

What are they actually spending it on???

[billtom]

What I don't understand is what they are actually spending $750 million on. The /. item just says they're "dumping" and the Reuters article just says "The Redmond, Washington-based behemoth was vague on details of its outlay" (hey! I actually read the reference before posting!).

Anybody care to make wild, paranoid, microsoft-bashing conspiracy guesses about what they're really buying? Or even informed, logical, reasonable guesses (but that's much less fun).

Re:What are they actually spending it on???

[Anonymous Coward]

(hey! I actually read the reference before posting!)

That's why you fail to get First Post. That is why someone else gets the honor and the glory and the splendor and the bright satisfying euphoric pleasure of First Post. While you're off .. reading (eww!!!) .. the movers and the shakers of Slashdot, the people that everyone wants to be, including you (deep down inside you know it's true) are involved in the real man's sport: competing to see who gets First Post.

Imagine the tension in the air. Someone hits reload. Someone else hits reload again. And then, there it is: a new story with no posts in it yet. He hits a button on his web browser and a button on his watch at the same time, and enters his First Post candidate's text. The counter on the watch goes up, up, up, 14, 15, 16.. dare I post now? 17, 18? The suspense is killing me. 19 *pause* HIT IT! SUBMIT! NOW!!!

Was he too greedy? Did he "lead off" under the 20 second mark just a little too far, getting the "slowdown cowboy" message? Or did he get it right at 20 seconds, just a jiffy after the mark? And more importantly, was he first? The second that goes by after hitting Submit, is the longest second indeed.

And then he sees his article is submitted successfully! He reloads the page, wondering if he is the new champion of Slashdot, and BEHOLD! In all its glory: First Post. Somewhere else on the globe, a man screams as his dreams are shattered and his title lost. But here, the First Poster gleams with triumph and victory, acknowledge by all for his great skill and cunning. He he holds a fist up into the air, pulls it down and exclaims "Yessss! First Post! Who's your daddy?"

And you're missing all that, because you are off reading articles like a sheep, while the ultimate contest is held back here at Slashdot, and reputations and posters spirits are made and broken, all in a day. We have that One Shot at glory, and you're off reading articles. You don't know what it is, TO LIVE, to experience Slashdot at its cutthroat intense core.

I pity you.

Re:What are they actually spending it on???

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe advertising? That budget (25 mil a year) sounds about exatctly like a standard ad campaign budget.

Re:What are they actually spending it on???

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody care to make wild, paranoid, microsoft-bashing conspiracy guesses about what they're really buying?

Probably puppy-shredding machines, powered by WinCE. What they do is shred the puppies into a thick paste, and combine it with wood pulp (and hemp), and press it into paper. Then they print copies of the Pledge of Allegiance onto the paper, except the pledge has been altered so that "under God" reads as "under Microsoft".

Then the godless heathen Microsoft allies send the altered pledges over to America, and hand them out to innocent children. Oh, and the paper contains subliminal watermarks that teach you that:

1. Pirating Microsoft software is bad
2. There is no God
3. Buy lots of of drugs
4. 9/11 attacks were justified because America is evil
5. Each should provide according to his ability, and take according to his needs
6. Healthcare is a right
7. GPL is a virus
8. Rock and Roll should be played loud, so that your parents' ears are hurt

And then the American childen learn these things and kill their parents and overthrow our society and plunge America into an age of servitude to Microsoft.

Glad you asked.

Re:What are they actually spending it on???

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably puppy-shredding machines, powered by WinCE.

Yes. I worked on this project from 1997-1999. You see, the idea is that the Windows CE powered machine has a camera that monitors the situation. Each puppy gets to watch the puppies before it get shredded, so that it understands what is about to happen to it. A Windows CE program also monitors the speed at which a puppy is shredded, and slows the process down if the heuristic algorithm determines that the puppy is not suffering enough.

By the way, the Chinese commies and Microsoft both absolutely hate puppies, so they always use the cutest big-eyed puppies they can find, for this project. I hate a bitch of a time coding the puppy-selection algorithm.

And that's a good call regarding the hemp fiber that is added to the puppy paste. Bill Gates and China both want to legalize drugs in America in order to corrupt our youth, and using hemp fiber contributes to that, by creating a demand and legitimizing the cultivation of that accursed weed.

Re:What are they actually spending it on???

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but it also buys a lot of chinese opium which can be processed into heroin and released on our streets. Think about it. You advertising and puppyshredding theorists don't see what Microsoft really wants.

Oh no...

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux justifies everything..
Now in the slashdot editor's heads Microsoft is dumping $750M to stop Linux in China..
Damn, I guess it's time to stop reading this site.

microsoft is against chinas ideals

[GoatPigSheep]

The entire open source philosophy would appeal to china as it is more akin to the countries communist ideals. If china were to switch to MS products, they would be forced to bow down to american capatalism. It would also be very easy for MS to slip in a little 'extra features' that could allow the US government to spy on china more easily. If they are using linux, it would be extremely difficult to spy on them, maybe china realizes this.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[indigo78]

Should I be Chinese, I'd use OpenBSD...
...just to be... ...er... ..."sure" :)

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[ryants]

The entire open source philosophy would appeal to china as it is more akin to the countries communist ideals

Why does this drivel continue to persist?

The "Open source" philosophy is a development model for software. The software is still "owned" (copyrighted), which is strike one against the "open source is communism" crap.

Looking at the ethical side ("Free Software", RMS and all that), communism (as traditionally implemented) is totally at odds with free software, which is all about empowering users and maximizing freedoms their freedoms. Communism is most definitely not about empowering citizens and maximizing their freedoms.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[scotfl]

Wait a second,

Open Source = Communism ?

Why hasn't this been modded down to Troll? :)

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[FreeUser]

The "Open source" philosophy is a development model for software. The software is still "owned" (copyrighted), which is strike one against the "open source is communism" crap.

Correct, to a point. Free Software is also NOT communism, it is Freedom and it encourages a Commons and a Community. Like the US Constitution, Democracy, Authoritarianism, and Existentialism, it is orthogonal to economic systems, be they Communism, Capitalsim, Feudalism, or Barterism.

In contast you seem to have equated Communism with Authoritarianism, which is a very inaccurate equation to make.

I should point out that (a) your rant against communism would more appropriately be aimed at Authoritarianism. It is an American myth that there was no democratic communism (there was a thriving "democratic" communism in Spain, which was coopted and then legislated out of existence by the Spanish government with the active and covert aid of both the United States (who couldn't stand to see any communist system succeed, and contrary to the other examples this one was succeeding and even out competing their capitalist counterparts in the country) and the Soviet Union (who couldn't stand to see a democratic form of communism succeed as that would undermine their entire "authoritarianism is necessary for communism to work" propoganda).

Authoritariansim is Bad, Republicanism and Democracy are Good.

Communism, Socialism and Capitalism all fail miserably in their purest form, but work reasonably well in modified, moderate forms, so long as the political climate is sufficiently free to allow the economy some degree of self-organization. (It is another American myth that communism is by definition a centrally planned economy, though the vast majority of authoritarian implimentations were. The example cited previously, in Spain, was not centrally planned, it was a self-organizing economy of collectives who traded amongst themselves and with their capitalist counterparts).

The mix we had in the west during the 70's and 80's (the rewards of which we reaped in the 80's and 90's) was probably the most successful, but the emergence of unaccountable corporatism appears to be wrecking the once successful form of capitalism we practiced here in the west, perhaps even as much as the unaccountable authoritarian regimes wrecked any chance at a functional communism did in the east.

Finally, back on the topic of the thread, China's communal culture is more amenable to Free Software in many ways than it is to a foreign monopoly like Microsoft (remember, the British ruled China with an iron fist through trade monopolies, so this is more offensive to them than to us, which is saying a lot because monopolies are, or should be, very offensive to anyone who values a free market).

And, last but not least, China is really only communist in name ... its economy is as capitalist as any western economy (which isn't saying a lot if you look at any western economy closely ... think corporate welfare, which is rampent, protectionist tarrifs, legislated monopolies, and so forth, all of which undermine or even eliminate free markets).

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[liverdonor]

This is just the sort of generalization that has caused problems for humans for many 10^3's of years.

Please try and understand. China isn't a communist country. China is a country full of people who are possibly even more capitalistic than we are here in the good ole' US of A - but they just happen to have a corrupt oligarchy of a government whose only goal appears to be staying in power, and are unfortunately not blessed with a strong constitution and separation of powers that we (and other parliamentary democracies) have.

Remember, there's no history of democracy in China. Ever. Most Chinese people I've met would like to have it, but many are skeptical that it would work.

This atmosphere helps nourish Linux and the Open Source movement in China - there are large numbers of talented and engaged software engineers, many of whom have little or no money to spend on expensive (and mostly bullsh*t) software licences and hardware. Open Source fosters innovation, and it's better than piracy because no one can prosecute you for pursuing it, and you get the source, whereas pirated commercial software is rather opaque in that regard.

Personally, having worked at MS in my past, I would hope that China can grow their own OS's. I hope that MS fails there - it would be a huge help to the Open Source cause if they fail.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[Anonymous Coward]

You're comparing 'theoretical' communism to an in practice socialist republic. That is like comparying theoretical democracy to a representitive republic. The theory behind communisim is actually very idealistic, much like the theory behind democracy. In many ways the theories behind communism and democrocy can and do borrow heavily from each other. In the 'ideal' democracy the needs of the people are met because the power ultimately rests in the hands of the people. In the 'ideal' communism everyone works for the improvment of the community, and thus they all share the burden and reap the rewards together, so that no single individual can become terribly wealthy, and 'enslave' other individuals into furthering their wealth.
Open source is compatable with both theories, as the control of open source software ultimately rests int he hands of the people, because they have access tot he source. While they also work together as a community, because they have access to the source.
But theory and practice are completely different.
In practice Open source doesn't really fit with either model that well. Because the government wants to control the people in a socialist government, and to some extent with the source there, you can't control what people do with it. It also clashes with a democracy in practice, because in a democracy the one with the most money tends to get the most support, and open source is not nearly the cash cow that closed source software is. Fortunately this isn't 'highlander' and in the end there CAN be more than one. So open source will always have a niche market for people who need the freedom of the source. And given that software can only develope to a certain point before it can no longer get better, there may well come a time when open source is as good or better than closed source for everything. Consider playing cards, when they were invented, only the wealthy could afford them. Since there are only so many ways to make a playing card, the market stagnated to the point where there was no major difference between any of the products on the market. Software may not hit the threshold of how far a program can go soon, but 50 years from now, is there going to be anything new that microsoft can do, that open source hasn't already mastered? And if there is, will it matter to anyone except microsoft? People get convinced to upgrade because of new features, but like a playing card there are only so many features any software package can have.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[thirdrock]

Finally, back on the topic of the thread, China's communal culture is more amenable to Free Software in many ways than it is to a foreign monopoly like Microsoft (remember, the British ruled China with an iron fist through trade monopolies, so this is more offensive to them than to us, which is saying a lot because monopolies are, or should be, very offensive to anyone who values a free market).

Not true, in every way.
1. The British NEVER, I repeat NEVER ruled China. Yes, they forced the concession of Hong Kong and the New Territories, and yes, the forced the concession of trading 'quarters' in ShangHai that were under British law. But Britain was never the ruling government of China.
2. The concessions mentioned above were not brought about through a trade monopoly by the British, quite the contrary. It was China that had the trade monopoly in Tea. It was China that dictated trade terms through their monopoly. That is, they would only trade Tea for Silver. The British were fighting a currency war in Europe, trying to make silver the monetary unit of choice, because Spain, France and Holland had so much gold. That is why the Opium trade began. To return silver to British coffers.
3. Britain did not have a trade monopoly in Opium. Opium was sold to China by the French, and the Americans as well.

And, last but not least, China is really only communist in name ... its economy is as capitalist as any western economy (which isn't saying a lot if you look at any western economy closely ... think corporate welfare, which is rampent, protectionist tarrifs, legislated monopolies, and so forth, all of which undermine or even eliminate free markets).

Not quite, but certainly moving in that direction. There are still a large number of State Enterprises that are protected more than their counterparts would be in most 'capitalist' countries. But given the recent steel and agriculture subsidies granted by the Shrub Administration, I would say that China's economy is almost as capitalist as the US economy, but falls a LONG way behind Hong Kong.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[mmport80]

China is a country full of people who are possibly even more capitalistic than we are here in the good ole' US of A

actually china's president said that capitalism is the new communism a while back. very interesting.

Re:microsoft is against chinas ideals

[Anonymous Coward]

Good quote, I hadn't heard that. Fascinating.

I realize that this is quite tangential to the original post, but there are some very cool developments going on in China both technically and culturally.

I'll see if I can get more info about the research at BeiDa (Beijing U.) into encoding and encryption methods. The teasers I've heard from friends in the biz sound really interesting. Will post more when available.

Cheers all

nice try, but ain't gonna happen...

[f00zbll]

Did microsoft forget china is still communist? Did they forget chinese politicians are zenophobic? Do they really think the government is going to buy in?

Get real. Nothing to see here.

Re:nice try, but ain't gonna happen...

[Jaysyn]

Zenophobia, the fear of tall, strong, white women.

I'm sure you ment Xenophobia though.

Jaysyn

Re:nice try, but ain't gonna happen...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you ment Xenophobia though.

"Xenaphobia"

Jaysyn

"Jason"

:|

Re:nice try, but ain't gonna happen...

[f00zbll]

Damn my spelling sucks or is that my proof reading sucks. Or maybe it's really MS that sucks.

Re:nice try, but ain't gonna happen...

[Sloppy]

No, Zenophobia is the irrational fear that you can't get anywhere because you always have to recursively travel half the distance to your destination.

Open source resolve?

[Trevelyan]

I'm interested to see what countries like china, who are pushing hard for the use of Non-MS s/w (from MS point of view), will do when MS throw money at them?

What were their original intentions?
-Open source is better we should use it
-Lets scare MS into giving us a better offer

I hope/feel China is of the first, but I wonder about others. I live in the UK where our authorities (NHS IIRC) were looking at Linux til MS gave a discount

Re:Open source resolve?

[Anonymous Coward]

What I want to know is, what are other companies going to think, when they realize that their profits are going to fund their competition?

Only $750 million?

[pavera]

For 3 years $750 million seems pretty small for a market as large as China, I mean really. almost half of the planet's populace, and they're only investing $750 over 3 years? Seems like a pretty small commitment to me from a company that has earnings in excess of 9 billion a year.

Re:Only $750 million?

[currentdirectory]

not really. look into currency conversion.
1.00 United States Dollars = 8.27710 CNY. and also look at the living standards of china. if you take all this into account, this 750 million$s will be atleast 6-8billion CNY which is a lot of money

More FUD

[first axiom]

Reading the article shows that Microsoft is not overlooking "software sharing" in return for anything, as the write-up implies. The article says Microsoft is pledging to invest $750 million in China over three years, but that "China had not made any specific pledges in return".

The Beijing municipal goverment is -still- going to use Linux instead of Microsoft, as the article clearly states, so Microsoft's only benefit in this investment is goodwill. And for a developing country, investment in education, jobs, and research is very important.

It's hard to trust Slashdot these days. That's a bad reputation to build.

Old news!

[Anonymous Coward]

This was reported 18 minutes ago on . I can't believe /. is so far behind!

Re:Old news!

[Anonymous Coward]

Be fair, you have to give Timothy time to make sure this isn't a duplicate story, check the facts in the user's submission, correct the spelling and grammar and think of a witty and insightly comment of his own,

Re:Old news!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Be fair, you have to give Timothy time to make sure this isn't a duplicate story, check the facts in the user's submission, correct the spelling and grammar and think of a witty and insightly comment of his own,"

Hmmm, this in itself makes me think that our regular Timothy has secretly been replaced with our special blend of Timothy Crystals(TM).

Thanks! I think I like the new blend!

Spam

[sheepab]

They'll probably sink that 750 million into spam, great, here comes another unwanted email.

beating the pirates

[avandesande]

It looks like microsoft is beating the pirates to the punch, giving away a bunch of software before the pirates can. This is just another PR stunt like making software 'gifts' to schools.

This is complete B$

[ImaLamer]

Ok, so there is rampant piracy in China and they get fucking rewarded with a fat fucking check?

Fuck that shit. No sir I won't calm down. We are a free nation but we get the BSA and they get a fucking check?

Isn't this some fucked up shit? They can't even obey US anti-trust laws and they still go on with software "raids". Fuck that.

I guess criminals stick together. Fucking bastards.

Bull shit.

Re:This is complete B$

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is, companies in the US aren't threatening to switch to linux. Even the US government doesn't seem too inerested in switching soon (NSA excepted). MS has a lot of guaranteed business and marketshare here. China was going to switch to linux exclusively, very soon. MS is doing whatever it can to keep linux from gaining users. Apparently it is financially better for MS to go with piracy than allow linux to grow.

Re:This is complete B$

[ImaLamer]

Troll... fuck that

The situation is bullshit.

If I start running off copies of XP I should get a check eh?

Fucking bullshit.

Re:This is complete B$

[Anonymous Coward]

You are teh suck.

I can see the problems now..

[lionchild]

There are 2 things that strike me about this article.. The Chinese won't like the scheme of software liscencing. If they buy a copy, they own the copy, I'm sure they won't want to effectively "lease" it.

The other thing that comes to mind, is I have to wonder if this isn't the beginning of a strategy for MS to cultivate a new, cheaper pot to draw devlopers and even manufacturers from. No need to deal with Unions there..that would be nice, wouldn't it? You might not be able to manufacture as many products that are listed as non-export..but what if you developed them there, then exported them to the US?

About $2 per capita in China..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ridiculous...
Unless it will all go directly to bribe the apparatchiks in order to get them using M$ :)

Re:The Nazis are back!

[EnderWiggnz]

hate to tell ya - the nazi's carried bibles the first time, too

Oh, the beautiful irony

[Static242]

Think of the it. Some day China may be taking M$ to court for monopolistic tactics. I kind of doubt anyone at M$ will be standing in front of any communist fact finding mission about poor software design or trade tactics. Here you can plead the 5th, their they can do some unsavory sort of punishment

Re:Oh, the beautiful irony

[Static242]

Yep! Hence the irony.

Just because they are communist does not mean they do not form fact finding panels to access blame just like the United States, France, Britian, etc. I think the West just likes to call them witchhunts.

The people need someone to blame. And when the people do not need (or do not get) a voice for blame, then the politicans need one for political gain. Not to say that they don't need scapegoats in the US, France, Britian, etc. ;)

Re:Oh, the beautiful irony

[Anonymous Coward]

But, they are not the one controlling this monopoly, eh!

What they meant to say was...

[speedfreak_5]

"We want the Chinese industry to grow our pocketbooks. The success of Microsoft in every market, including China's, is highly dependent upon the domination of local industry. What's good for the control of local industry in every country is good for Microsoft."

Dollar to population ratios

[molrak]

Microsoft has spent over $500 million on advertising for Xbox in the United States alone. The United States has an estimated population of 278,058,900. Which means Microsoft is spending about $1.80 per citizen to promote the Xbox.

Microsoft plans on spending $750 million on advertising for Microsoft in China. China has an estimated population of 1,273,111,300. Microsoft therefore is spending about $0.59 per citizen on advertising in China.

Granted, the demographics for each group are vastly smaller than the overall population, and the dollar, in spite of its recent downturn, still can buy a lot more in China than it can in the US. But this still seems disproportionate, especially considering China has the potential to become the world's largest technology market.

Note: All currency was figured using US dollars. Population statistics gathered from City Population.

Re:Dollar to population ratios

[treat]

Microsoft has spent over $500 million on advertising for Xbox in the United States alone. The United States has an estimated population of 278,058,900. Which means Microsoft is spending about $1.80 per citizen to promote the Xbox.

Isn't this a terribly wrong way to go about an advertising campaign of this magnitude? At 105,480,101 households, that is about $4.74 per household. You could pay a generous $9.50 per hour for people to go door to door (averaging half an hour per household) promoting the Xbox. Surely this would be more effective than any advertising campaign.

Re:Dollar to population ratios

[0x0d0a]

Yes, but the X-box flopped

To Do list for getter_85

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Learn spelling
2. Learn grammar
3. Unclench anus
4. Lay off the Mountain Dew
5. ...

Damn, son--you should give meatspace a whirl sometime.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

The Chinese people's point of view.

[Anonymous Coward]

China is a country where many computer users can't afford the MS license fees. China is a country that is suspicious of the US. Windows is an OS that is primarily designed with the English language in mind.

Linux is free/cheap, Linux is open source (you can find backdoors if they exist). Linux is also primarily designed around English however the code is available to be modified and I'm sure there's quite a few Chinese Linux distros.

I can understand why MS want to keep China using their products, there are some very talented chinese programmers working on Linux.

Re:The Chinese people's point of view.

[Steve Franklin]

Not that I know anything about this, but that hasn't stopped me before. ;o)

I would think that it would be to everyone's advantage that Chinese computer users should at least be acquainted with the M$ Windows interface. Whether they should adopt it wholesale is another story. Being as the Chinese government has decided to push Gnulix, I don't think the latter is in any danger of being overrun by billions of Windows users. Someone has suggested that M$ and the Chinese oligarchs should make good bed fellows, but seriously, M$ doesn't hold a candle to Beijing as far as rule by executive fiat goes.

I don't think it should be ignored, though, that there has been *some* improvement in Chinese styles of government over the last century. They have, after all, gone from an Emperor as god on earth to a party head as fearless leader to an oligarchy as rotating rulers for a year. So there has definitely been some attempt to broaden the power base ;o). And do not overlook the fact that there has been serious progress toward representative government on the local level. Capitalism emerged in China in this very way, with the farmers and the local economies. Is Eastern Europe really better off for having installed democracy right out of the box after nearly a century of dictatorial rule?

I look forward to the day when the Chinese have finally established an egalitarian state and *they* read M$ the riot act, telling *them* that their anticompetitive and undemocratic methods will not be tolerated in the Middle Kingdom, which, as everyone knows, is the real center of the world, not Billy Boy Gates. That would surely get M$'s attention more than some silly lawsuit brought by the bought and paid for politicos in DC.

Mr. Ballmer's Plan for a new Pledge

[Mr_Perl]

I pledge allegiance
To the conglomerates
of the marketing and legal departments of Microsoft
And to the domination
for which they stand
One company
Invincible
With License fees and big brother for all

Re:Mr. Ballmer's Plan for a new Pledge

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot "under Bill" after invincible. I don't think the courts have found that unconstitutional yet.

Very likely

[einhverfr]

Agreed with your points, but there are a few more things to consider:

Microsoft really is lagging in the Chinese market (200:1 copies of licensed Linux to Windows according to some estimates). This is because the only competition to pirated Windows at the moment comes from Linux.

Also, Gates at one point make a comment to Money magiazine (in 1998) where he stated that they need to get the Chinese addicted to software, so they will start paying for it. This has seriously hurt Microsoft's image in China (can you say Opium War?)

Finally, the major anti-piracy cases Microsoft has tried to bring in China have been ill-timed and seriously backfired.

So Microsoft is coming in from behind in the fight against Linux in China, and it is trying to make up for past blunders...

MS is going for anti linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if MS lets China adopt linux for everything, then MS can't really claim that linux doesn't work or that Windows is better. How can linux be expensive, insecure, buggy, and impossible to use if the most populated, highly censored country uses linux successfully? Governments and companies are getting annoyed with MS's security and pricing problems and many are considering switching to linux. I'm sure many of them are watching China to see how it goes there. If MS can keep China from switching over, it's likely that other countries will be discouraged as well.

As it is I don't think MS is losing that much from piracy in China, which would be why they're willing to overlook it as long as they don't use linux and give credibility to their main competitor. With piracy, people are at least using MS products, and may be more likely to buy MS for their companies or selves if they can afford to. With linux (or any other software), MS loses marketshare AND money. And even more annoying to MS, they can't simply buy out linux either. MS hates piracy, but the hate linux even more.

Don't knock it

[Subcarrier]

That must be, oh, at least 50 cents per noggin.

In China you can probably buy a chicken or two with that.

$750 Million? Depends how you count...

[WEFUNK]

Microsoft makes an annoucement that they're "investing" $750 Million somewhere, but what does that really mean?

I mean, where does that figure actually come from? I imagine it's the total retail price of products they're going to give away. Or it could be the total "discount" they're prepared to give off stand alone or bundled packages (50% off each product X expected volumes). With .NET is this just giving away the razor while charging for the blades (something they want to do anyway and are possibly just piloting in China)? Does the number also include promotion and advertising budgets (beyond any give-aways)? And how much is for "real" apps vs. silly "$700 of free Microsoft Software" packages with programs like Free-Cell having MSRP's of $25 or more?

The bottom line is, this is a pretty silly press release/story. They can pretty well choose an arbitarily high number if they base it on the suggested retail value of product, when in actual fact, their actual net investment (variable costs) might be next to nothing. They're not even giving up opportunity costs if they're just competing against pirated copies.

Linux distros should do the same thing by assigning an arbitrary retail value to every freely distributed copy and calling that the open source "investment" in each implementation/industry/country.

Re:Nothing like cold hard currency to catch the ey

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bet that the $750 Million works as a corporate lubricant. Think of all the gambling junkets they could manage with that kind of cash. Not that the Peoples government types woule EVER do that...

Mmmmm Mmmm. Not EVER

the Chinese will demand the source

[exhilaration]

One of China's primary motives in pushing for the adoption of Linux was its inherent mistrust of closed-source American software products.

I don't blame them - Microsoft could easily slip some backdoors into the Chinese-language version of Windows, especially if they were pressured to do by the State Department.

The Chinese won't give up Linux until Microsoft lets them see the code. The question is, can Microsoft trust the Chinese? In the U.S., Microsoft could take you to court for breaking a NDA - they have no such guarantees in China. Portions of Microsoft's treasured Windows source code might end up in Red Flag Linux.

Re:the Chinese will demand the source

[mpe]

The Chinese won't give up Linux until Microsoft lets them see the code. The question is, can Microsoft trust the Chinese? In the U.S., Microsoft could take you to court for breaking a NDA - they have no such guarantees in China. Portions of Microsoft's treasured Windows source code might end up in Red Flag Linux.

Or even worst from Microsofts POV, ending up published where people from North America and Europe can read it.
Though it's more likely to be code from MS Office than Windows :)

Innovation and inhilation

[fizzychicken]

The software industry sure is innovative. There can't be too many industries which make it so easy for users to start using their product. The only other one which springs to mind is the addictive drug industry - the first hit is always free, right ?

Maybe Windows is to operating systems what nicotine is to recreational drugs. Socially accepted, extortionately priced, ultimately damaging to the user, and very hard to quit.

Or maybe I'm rambling again 8).

If we're all users, who is the dealer ?

Re:Innovation and inhilation

[happyclam]

"there are only two industries that call their customers users -- those selling technology and those selling drugs"

unfortunately, I can't recall the origin of the quote

China can't afford M$ software

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think the average computer user in China can afford the ~$500 'Gates tax' for every computer - the cost of XP and Office XP? That would more than double the cost of the systems, if not triple it. China and India are the two big emerging markets but the money isn't there - they need cheap-ass hardware and cheap, if not free, software.

Anyway, by developing their own OS, it is much easier for the government of China to build in their own spy software - I'm sure they could do a better job than MS. I'm surprised more countries haven't caught on to this.

Nice and all

[The_Shadows]

But Microsoft would be better served PR wise by investing the money in their home country.

Besides that, I don't look at MS spending 750 Mil over three years as actually spending money. 750M / 3 = 250 M / yr. For a company that has over $40 in cash and add about $1 Billion / month that isn't a very huge donation. They make that back on 1% annual interest rates. MS probably gets, overall on their cash something more along the lines of a 4 or 5% benefit. That's $1.6 - $2 Billion per year in interest.

$250 Mil isn't insignificant, but this is like piss in the ocean to MS. And, again, if they had donated that to US schools or to American industry, but particularly schools, then they would get a huge PR boost here. We'll see how China's Empire responds to Microsoft's empire, I suppose. Should be interesting.

Re:Nice and all

[akeru]

Yup, but they did the exact opposite: threatened cash-starved schools with an audit and a 30-day deadline (I'm certain this was reported on Slashdot). Due to some horrible press they have since largely recanted (and it seems there was some internal "rearranging" shortly afterwards as well).

Re:The Nazis are back!

[Apostrophe Nazi]

the nazi's carried bibles the first time, too

Bing! You need Bob's Quick Guide to the Apostrophe. Use it right, folks.

piracy is wrong

[goblinfart]

piracy is stealing. And its wrong.

Same M.O., Different Company

[Fastball]

There's nothing new about major U.S. corporations exploiting^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^investing in China. You show me a corporation that sneezes at a billion people, and I'll show you a penny stock.

However, I do believe the groundswell of interest in Linux there has the Microsoftians scrambling to develop a business model for Asia. Foreign countries are refreshingly competitive markets for software developers, and OSS has made this possible. There's no open source cola to keep Coke in check, but there's Linux, FreeBSD, etc.

Slashdot poster raises his can of Diet Coke to propose a toast. Here's hoping the Chinese take a tact similar to the Peruvians.

Re:Same M.O., Different Company

[Anonymous Coward]

Open source cola? Right here dude.

OpenCola

That's for captive markets...

[MatthewDunbar]

... but in China it's still a matter of "Try it. Really. The first hit's free".

M$ is willing to spend a little money now, and to overlook the rampant piracy, in order to get in the door and hope to make enough points with the government to gain a significant position.

In a nation without their monopoly, M$ can't simply bully everyone to do what they want. So instead, for now, M$ will bide its time and distribute product trying to gain a monopoly first...

If it does, though, you will soon see the usual draconican M$ tactics you've come to expect. Once you realize it really IS all about eliminating the competition to protect the monopoly, it's perfectly consistent with all of their other business decisions. Competition is a greater danger to M$ profits than any amount of piracy, so they addess the greater concern first.

They'll be back for the pirates later.

And if they (horror of horrors) gain ground with Palladium, they'll use that to deal with both competition AND with piracy in one stroke. Palladium is a trojan horse of pretty bells, whistles, and features, but like everything else M$ proposes, it's all about M$ interests first.

Beware M$ G[r]eeks(tm) bearing gifts...

Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'd known that Microsoft would pay

me for pirating their software, I woulda started a lot sooner! Where do I pick up my check?

Isn't it obvious?

[7-Vodka]

M$ just wants to keep letting them have free samples, they don't want the habbit kicked just yet. Then when they have their whole .NET framework, BAM! They'll lock it down and cut off the copyright violations. They'll finally start makin some money off them.

If they don't do this and linux begins to be the flavour of choice, the chinese won't fall into the trap.

Neat...

[Danse]

Now I see that I have been right all along!! I'm not really pirating MS software, I'm helping MS to maintain their dominant user-base! What's good for me is good for Microsoft!!

Re:Neat...

[ignavus]

Now I see that I have been right all along!! I'm not really pirating MS software, I'm helping MS to maintain their dominant user-base!

Yes, you are. You are an accomplice to a corporation with the morals of a drug pusher.

Get legal. Use open source.

MS: Free, as in "the first one is on me"

MS: Unfree, as in "We'll charge you when you're hooked"

Only suckers play MS's game. If you are already dependent, *plan* to get off their software. For all new projects, use open source equivalents. For old projects, gradually port them to the open source equivalents. You *can* do something about it. Start now.

Re:Neat...

[labratuk]

...What's good for me is good for Microsoft!!

Wait a second: you're saying using Microsoft software is good for you?

Re:Neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd love to get off of MS software, but unfortunately my company requires that I use it. Since I do a lot of my work from home, I have to have it there too. Plus, I'm a gamer, and Linux just doesn't get the games yet. I realize that this is a chicken/egg situation, which is why I have bought Linux games in the past to try to support the companies that make them. At the time I was playing around with Linux and trying to see what I could get out of it. It was cool in a lot of ways, but still lacking in many too. That was about a year to a year and a half ago. I'm aware that it has improved quite significantly since then, and I plan to give it another try. I just need to get a new hard drive first. I'm running out of space. For now, my only solace comes from the fact that I haven't actually paid for an MS product since DOS 5.

Re:Neat...

[UncleFluffy]

I'd love to get off of MS software

Pure windows -> Windows under VMWare -> Wine -> pure (Gnu)/Linux -> Freedom !

Easy ! And with less steps than your average 12 step plan :)

Re:Neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but then I'll have to pirate VMWare. :P

Re:Neat...

[UncleFluffy]

Yeah, but then I'll have to pirate VMWare. :P

VMWare 30 day evaluation version, email address required.

Yahoo free email sign-up.

sigh... this is not obvious?

[Anonymous Coward]

one word for you -- it's called "bribing".

(okay, now i can claim political asylum)

but seriously -- anybody that ever lived in china would know this -- bribes are as rampant as mosquitos. they are almost "expected" now-a-days, kinda like the "key money" you pay your landlord when renting in Japan. you need to prepare these "gifts" when getting a passport, getting into a school, getting married, blah, blah, blah.

see -- china is a "power" based society, not "money" based. in the US, money gets you power -- in china it's the opposite -- power (level on the hiarchy) gets you money. where you think these money are comming from? well -- now you know. In china, power is fairly absolute -- because to get to a high position, you are not elected so everyone above/below you are usually your friend or relative (really) -- it means that you have nobody to complain to when bribes are taking place as an average citizen about the state of corruption, usually. there are no elections either so even if Jiang Ze Ming takes a 500mil "gift" from MS, 1) nobody will know (officially), and 2) you can't vote hime off.

so... sad day indeed. corrupt corporation paired with a corrupt government.

sorry i am posting anon. -- i plan to go back some times.

Take the bucks from MS and keep using Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

At least that's what I'd do.

Of course it probably would have worked better if Bushie wasn't in Bill's pocket.

Re:Take the bucks from MS and keep using Linux

[Dalcius]

I don't think Bush is in Bill's pocket simply because:

Texans hate MS. *snicker* (Yes, I'm from TX).

I mean, why else would Wal-Mart (Read: Hick Super-Store) think cheap computers with Lindows would sell?

=P

Is this irony?

[mblase]

Microsoft has to be realizing that it's better to let rampant piracy of their products continue

I'm amused by what must be the Chinese mentality: Share and redistribute Western OS software legally through the GPL, or illegally through piracy? Whatever, the government won't do anything anyways.

I mean, what's the point of MS giving them oodles of free software, when they'd copy it for free anyways? It's not like there's even a guilty conscience in their culture about it.

Re:Is this irony?

[tupps]

I would have thought letting the piracy go unchecked would have been cheaper. Microsoft wouldn't have to worry about the support side of things, and they don't have to pay for the distribution!

Re:Is this irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the whole thing's hilerious.

Micro$haft pouring money into the market that most pirates it's products.

It's the best thing to happen to Linux in years. I can just hear other governments thinking: "Hmmm, if we encourage M$ piracy and Linux use Microsoft may pay us millions too..."

At the very least it's another way of getting governments to take a serious look at Linux, if only as a bargaining chip with M$.

Well, not hard currency

[willis]

A minore point -- the Chinese Yuan is not hard currency. You can exchange into it (through state banks), but not out. It's possible to exchange overseas, etc, but I don't think a real forex market (i.e. billion dollar transactions) has been developed yet.

This leads to situations where companies that are actually making money in China (precious few) can't repatriate the earnings to the mother ship -- they have to invest it in the local economy, or stick it in the stock-market casinos.

Matter of Trust

[Fujisawa Sensei]

Just how much do you think the Chinese Government actually trusts Microsoft Software?

Perhaps they think MS is going in the the CIA to spy on them.

Or perhaps they want to use MS software for content controll and to spy on their own people.

This does make sence for china

[raque]

What /.'ers are missing here is that china is an internally repressive society so palladium is great for them. They are constantly seeking ways to control what their people do and don't see on the net, this is also MS's point of view. They are both into controlling everything.

Also remember Mao's statement, to paraphrase "all power comes from the end of a gun". China may believe that in the end they can use MS's technology and later control them.

Don't forget how brutal and ruthless china can be. They execute more people than any other country and have a terrible human rights record. MS is simply ruthless. Linux may be more Socialistic than Windows, but remember this is also about power.

Re:This does make sence for china

[Anonymous Coward]

"They execute more people than any other country..."
Yes, and USA wins the second place in this competition.

Re:This does make sence for china

[TheKey]

Prove it.

No, seriously.. I'm not some kind of hardcore patriot or anything who is doubting you. I find your statement interesting and would like to know where you find this information.

Re:This does make sence for china

[raque]

Check out this link
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/world04092002. html
(I forgot how to make it a link :( sorry)
I think the point here should be scary enough.
To add clarity this is from the pravda web site siting the Amnisty Int. report

The International body's annual report, published yesterday, states that 3,048 executions were carried out in 2001, compared to the year 2000 figure of 1,457 ; an increase largely attributed to Beijing's new Strike Hard crime policy. Indeed, no fewer than 1,781 people were executed in China between April and July 2001 - more than the total number of people executed in the rest of the world in the previous three years combined.
Here is the pravda link

http://english.pravda.ru/world/2002/04/10/27497.ht ml
Even they can speak the truth sometimes.

Re:This does make sence for china

[raque]

Ahh, no it doesn't

It comes in a very distant 4th with 66 compaired to over 1500 for china.

Pray check your facts.

Please ref this link:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/world0409200 2. html

Re:This does make sence for china

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think so.

Corporations are interested in controlling the computer on your desk, in order to ensure that you pay for content and software. This is part of what Palladium is designed for.

Governments are interested in controlling the network you connect to, in order to prevent you from sending or receiving subversive information.

Palladium cannot achieve this until it is on everybody's desk, and even then only if no applications capable of creating untagged content are available. I very much doubt that the Chinese government expects to be able to afford forcing this in the forseeable future.

Controlling information that others create is vastly more difficult and expensive than controlling information that you create.

Why Microsoft is doing this

[killmenow]

...invest $750 million in China...
...the deal...covers...local training...
..."There's no real commitment that I would say is part of the agreement that we signed," Ballmer said
...success of Microsoft...dependent upon the growth of local industry
...Microsoft...complained...lack of enforcement of intellectual property rights...stunted...homegrown software industry.
...China's desire...was an incentive to improving intellectual property protection.
...having...domestic market...local Chinese companies...intellectual property...even more important...
...Some...encouraged...Linux...

Well, while I think the Linux thing plays a small part, I think it's fairly obvious the main thing Microsoft is interested in doing is getting some Chinese politicians on its side in the piracy battle. It seems obvious MS is talking to Chinese officials about improving IP protections (which is another way of saying "cracking down on piracy") and trying to convince them they need to do it if they want Chinese companies to produce software for sale...because of course, nobody writes software if they can't make money at it.

It also seems the agreement is probably like this: "You Chinese guys will take this money, and you won't actually have to do anything except let us set up some 'training' facilities and 'software colleges' to indoctrinate your people on the importance of our^H^H^Hintellectual property rights."

Re:The Nazis are back!

[Daetrin]

Of course that guide fails to touch on the it's/its issue, or on any use as a possesive at all.

Read the fine print

[anonymous_wombat]

I believe that all M@crosoft got out of the deal is that Bill is now on the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. They finally realized that their core values are the same.

Hey, can I get me some of them tanks and run over some pesky Linux users?

Scoring problem?

[Jon Howard]

Why's this show (Score:-1) when it's scored at 2 on my slashdot page? Hell, if you click to reply to it, it show a 2 there, also.

Editorial modification or just a glitch? This seems to occur to my controversial comments with reasonable frequency, so I'm betting on the former. I don't really have a problem with that - I'm not paying for any of this - I just find it odd that it's being done so covertly (if indeed it is).

Looks like they're using some old school trojans

[CrazyDuke]

Sorry, had to say it...

China: Beware of geeks bearing gifts.

The Red (Blue, Yellow, Green Butterfly) Revolution

[Pyrosophy]

Why don't they just give in already and call it Mao-crosoft?

Remember...

[ackthpt]

It's usually ok with the US Govt for US corporations to bribe officials of foreign governments. Despite the official line from any government that they are above that sort of thing, you'll know what's up if China suddenly proclaims Linux as evil.

Re:Remember...

[jaoswald]

actually, the U.S. is less forgiving of bribing foreign officials than most other Western governments. In Europe, companies can classify bribes as "business expenses" for tax purposes. The U.S. does not permit this.

Coming Soon - Red Windows!

[WillSeattle]

For only $500 USD, or ten years salary, you too can own your very own licensed copy of Red Windows!

Or ... you can pay $0 and have Red Linux.

Hmmm, basic economics says ...

China trusts Microsoft?

[weave]

Imagine the good that ole Bill could do. Plant a trojan in every copy, set to go off years from now. When the magic date hits, start sending state secrets to U.S. on one hand, while opening up a tunnel around their firewall blocks and blast every normal computer user in the country with a real look at the outside world of news, events -- and boobies!

He could trigger a revolution! :-)

Re:China trusts Microsoft?

[twitter]

Plant a trojan in every copy, set to go off years from now. When the magic date hits, start sending state secrets to U.S. on one hand, while opening up a tunnel around their firewall blocks and blast every normal computer user in the country with a real look at the outside world of news, events -- and boobies!

Huh. I imagine that the people's republic is encouraged by the new "security" model of Palladrone and all of it's great people management potential. Someone in the party might have had second thoughts about this compiler and freedom thing from Linux. Of course the party does not trust M$ and will keep any information from getting out of the country if they can. China does NOT want free comunications, nor does Microsoft, as demonstrated by their EULA.

Porn is a standard component of prolefeed.

Re:China trusts Microsoft?

[weave]

I work at a college, and see a few Chinese nationals come here for an education. It's amazing how infatuated many of them are about porn. Way back in 1992, a student named Wang went ape shit over alt.binaries.erotica newsgroups. He sat down and wrote a program that would crawl the entire newsgroup and decode all of the multipart postings into files. Now, back then, this was a big deal. We take that for granted now, but to this day, its still useful. I can just run "wang" and let it churn for a few hours, come back, and have a directory full of images. He also got hold of an Radio Shack tone dialer with a different crystal and would sit in the lobby and red box himself into China at a few bucks a minute.

He loved this country! :)

The new domino theory

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, the official Chinese Linux Distro (http://www.redflag-linux.com) has Microsoft so scared of losing a market they are willing to do anything. I think MS fears that if China is successful in converting its country to Linux, then others nations will follow suit, until the whole world is singing the praises of the Open Source Manifesto.

Pretty much what they did in Mexico too

[Locutus]

This is what they did as a test run in Mexico. They know these countries are poor and by throwing a few million bills at them, they sucker them into the Microsoft Windows upgrade cycle. Linux can only offer reliable, secure, and inexpensive software while Microsoft just plain pays them to use Windows.

Wasn't it Microsoft who paid $5billion for AT&T to used MS-WinCE on a few hundred thousand set-top boxes? And then they couldn't provide the backend software to run it so AT&T walked away with $5billion.

When you have $40+billion in monopoly money and billions still streaming in, you can start paying people to use your product when you know they will not be able to move off it in the future.

Ask any drug dealer how this works......They'll tell you it a sure thing.

I hope China asked for cash too. ;)

LoB

Re:Pretty much what they did in Mexico too

[Anonymous Coward]

So where are these mythical drug dealers that will pay me to use their product?

I'm yet to find one.

Peanuts...

[burnsy]

According to MS's latest financials it takes them about 27 days (they earned 27.5 million per day last quarter) to make 750 million in operating profit.

750 million on China, 1 billion on the XBox, 2 billion on XBox live...its all peanuts.

Re:Peanuts...

[happyclam]

it takes them about 27 days (they earned 27.5 million per day last quarter) to make 750 million in operating profit.

Sure, but that's because they convinced WorldCom to use Visual Basic for their accounting software, and all the "rounding errors" were transferred into Microsoft's bank account.

Re:Peanuts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dumbfuck, it was already reported that the VB rounding is CORRECT for financial matters. It's called "Bankers rounding" and is more accurate for money matters than any dumbass "standard rounding" that a know-nothing jerk like you would have implemented.

Slashdot shows it's complete and utter ignorance yet again. That's 5,435 times today alone!

Re:Peanuts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but a billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

Re: yer sig ( OFFTOPIC )

[good-duckspeak]

According to sig:

I'm fat, you're ugly. I can get slimmer, and you?

1. Fat people have no willpower
2. Willpower is required to lose weight.
3. Fat people cannot lose weight.

The only known exceptions involve involuntary starvation or meth.

So pray for famine or start a drug habit and talk to me again.

Chineese Chicken.....

[wizbot]

Is really a Cat. they skin em and hang em out to dry , hmm..... just like MS competitors.. coincedence, or new fur coat with a side of Sweet and Sour ??

Re:Nah...they're just scared...

[lugonn]

...of going out of business. MS knows Linux and GPL'd software are going to destroy there software/business model in a couple years. They are desperatly trying to find a way to stay viable in 5 years. This is just another tatic to maintain a user base.

Palladium is another, but pure FUD. That type of technology isn't hack proof (dongles anyone), and won't catch on. Nothing that is hooked into a network is ever going to be 100% safe, just deal with it.

MS has NO choice but to scale back and realize the gravy train is over. They are going to have to become a real software company now, and work/listen to their customers wants/needs.

Micro$oft = Capitalism

[jsimon12]

I kinda doubt Communist China will really be into Microsoft, they may take the offer, but I seriously doubt they will take any Microsoft demands seriously or convert to Microsoft totally. Microsoft is simply too much a gleaming example of capitalism and indivuality, the antithesis of what China wants. Linux if anything stands for community and socialism. Hell it wasn't until the last couple years that the Chinese kept indivual basketball player stats, and if a player out performed his team mates he was publically ridiculed for it. I doubt they will have a longterm relationship with anything Microsoft.

Thanks to /. for nothing

[The Living Fractal]

and to the rest of the good-for-nothing anti-MS-for-no-readily-apparent-reason crowd (the majority of splashdot)...

Maybe if the people in Microsoft's own country had more faith in them this 750$mil would be staying IN THE COUNTRY instead of leaving for COMMUNIST CHINA.

So, thanks again... The Department of Justice.../....llama linuxtrolls and anyone else who actually thinks MS is doing bad things for the country, because you just cost the rest of us $750,000,000.

Re:Thanks to /. for nothing

[The Living Fractal]

And to the mod who moderated it as flamebait... LOL.

You know it's true. People like you just suck. Admit it.

Re:Thanks to /. for nothing

[k-s]

What are you talking about man?

You think that Microsoft will invest $750mi in a Rich country that was already dominated?! Why will they do that? It ins't a capitalism thing be evil? So why be good?

Re:Thanks to /. for nothing

[mpe]

Maybe if the people in Microsoft's own country had more faith in them this 750$mil would be staying IN THE COUNTRY instead of leaving for COMMUNIST CHINA.

Wonder what proportion of this money came from outside the US anyway. Maybe Microsoft are simply returning money which came from China in the first place.

Truth

[Anonymous Coward]

You geeks are such a clueless crowd.

This is the beginning of MS shifting production outside US because the whole pyramid-scheme fraud of currency by fiat ia about to collapse. When a currency is becoming worthless you get your assets out of that nation so that they are not devauled.

Obvious as all hell!

China can't afford Windows Anyway

[Jagungal]

The reality is with Windows in China, the cost of buying a boxed version of Windows is probabally about a month's wages for the average person and a whole lot of money for the average business. You then have to take into account the cost of office and other applications.

This is the reason that Microsoft can throw what money it wants at China, in the end the average chinese person won't be able, nor will they be willing to pay the prices that Microsoft will require in USD.

If these additional monetary sweetners from Microsoft to the Chinese government cause them to crack down more on counterfiet Microsoft software then all it is going to do is force people and businesses to look for alternatives, probabally Linux and the like.

How China Linux Works - why microsoft will fail

[akbkhome]

This is very funny for anybody who knows how the linux china market works.

Before you start, you have to understand that there are a number of Linux Distribution companies in China, most of the started small and rode the tech bubble there, raising capital on the hope of following companies like Redhat etc.

The difference in china is that prior to getting listed, they had to be 'blessed' by the powers that be - The communist goverment. - due to rampant quasi corruption, this usually means that if the cardres that added their blessing usualy buy in personally - and stay in (due to the chinese habit of sticking with the family).

What this means is that all the major Linux companies have very prominant central party members on their board. - imagine George Bush's son on the board of Redhat. - with no accountability stuff..

Basically the top guys are so tightly into the idea they can make money from their connections using linux, that microsoft is fighting a battle that it lost a few years ago...

Re:How China Linux Works - why microsoft will fail

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference in china is that prior to getting listed, they had to be 'blessed' by the powers that be - The communist goverment. - due to rampant quasi corruption, this usually means that if the cardres that added their blessing usualy buy in personally - and stay in (due to the chinese habit of sticking with the family).

M$ Internal Financial Report :

Donations to the Chinese Government - $300M
Money to kill off other competition - $250M
Bribing various officials - $200M
Software Development Costs - $0M
- - -
Total $750M

Did you even read my post?

[Anomolous Cow Herd]

Let's see...

First, you present evidence based upon what someone (with near-zero credibility, because, let's face it, anonymity on the Internet is a license to lie) said in a post on Slashdot. Then you proceed to present your personal opinion as someone who is clearly a technical user.

Neither of these is an even remotely persuasive source. You are just spewing your own personal opinion with it's own slanted language (your sarcastic tone in listing companies, for instance) and passing it off as objective information.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, none of those companies that you listed either:

• Use Linux as a major component in their business strategy (in the case of the OEMs you mentioned). Contrast them with "Linux" companies such as RedHat, who recently posted a loss numbering in the millions, or VA Software, whose stock performance pretty much speaks for itself. Or any number of now-bankrupt companies, like Lineo.
• Force Linux onto the desktops of non-technical users (who consist of the vast majority of computer users). Animators and such do not fit in the catagory of "non-technical user" because most of them went to expensive schools for several years to learn the software platform that they work with every day.

In short, you totally missed the thrust of my post and generally made an ass out of yourself and Linux. Please don't disparage the real achievements of the Linux developers by making stupid arguements about things it clearly wasn't intended for.

As an aside, did you ever recieve an education outside of CS? Your ability to make an argument is laughable.

Re:Did you even read my post?

[Dalcius]

...you present evidence based upon what someone (with near-zero credibility, because, let's face it, anonymity on the Internet is a license to lie)
I'm not stupid enough to disagree with you. However, there isn't much incentive to post the comment in question. You're right, I probably shouldn't have posted it, but I don't think you can claim that that comment's claim is inconceivable.

Then you proceed to present your personal opinion as someone who is clearly a technical user.

I am a technical user, and although I did list my opinion, that also holds with the opinions of many of my friends, family, people I work with, etc. who say the same thing.
Just because I'm a technical user doesn't mean I can't gauge how difficult a system is to use. We were all newbies at some point.

Neither of these is an even remotely persuasive source. You are just spewing your own personal opinion with it's own slanted language (your sarcastic tone in listing companies, for instance) and passing it off as objective information.
Not that I can honestly argue, but I find it hardly credible for you to call me on something you did yourself.

In your article:
Source: None.
Personal opinion: "Linux is such a joke on the desktop." If you can prove this as fact ,let me know.
Sarcastic tone: "Yes, of course M$ is out to get you, Linux!!"

But I did stoop to that level, you're right.

I did miss the word "desktop" in your post. And I just took off running with the idea that someone thinks Linux isn't a creditable threat. For that, yes, I made an ass of myself. I got what I deserved. One troll for another, eh?

As far as the main thrust of your post, you seem to be pushing to the point that Linux isn't a credible business threat/consideration. If you're refering to the desktop, fine, but that doesn't fit with the entire first half of your post -- you mention nothing of the desktop, but talk about Linux in general on the issue of being a threat.

Your whole point, if in fact regarding Linux in general and not the desktop, can be negated by looking at Microsoft. They are a profitable corporation and have stated over and over again that Linux is a threat.

Maybe I should add that MS is known for offering better deals to countries that look at Linux (See: UK, Peru). That fits with the China thing as well.

If it was in reference to the desktop aspect alone, perhaps you should have structured your argument more clearly, as you suggested that I should do.

Re:Did you even read my post?

[Anonymous Coward]

For a freshman, you are one arrogant piece of work. Let
me guess, you revel over every opportunity to prove
your teachers wrong. You feel that without a doubt
the other members of your class are complete idiots.
-
-
If you don't like the people here. MOVE ON.
We like linux, BSD, open source. This is not the debate
team. Nor do we have to use sources from the library of
congress to prove a point. The use of anecdotal stories
is NOT the same as lying. We tell you what we know and
we use stories from our REAL life experiences. When
you get some of those real life experiences come back
and enlighten us with your vision of how the world
should be. Until that time lighten up, you pretentious
twit.

It's the games

[edyu]

I have known many people in China who operates Net Cafes. For them and for most people in China, computer means two things, games and chatting. They all run Windows machines. Of course, they don't have licenses because a windows license is way too expensive for an average person in China.

Re:fp!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fag

Who cares about a dead Mexican whore anyway?

Re:Nah...they're just scared...

[adgriffi]

What, they're listening to what I want?

Does that mean software will be free legally???

Great.

750 million is becoming a common number...

[handsomepete]

According to this story on gamespot.com, that's the exact same amount they're losing on the X-Box this year. Apologies if someone else already pointed this out, but seemed like an interesting coinceidence (draw your own piracy related conclusions).

Can't even sell it?

[UnAmericanPunk]

Humm, last I heard M$ was selling their operating system, now they're paying money for China to use it?
So... the way I figure it, Microsoft should owe the school I go to at least $100,000 for making us use their software...

Bill Gates starts World War III?

[dcavanaugh]

I used to think that World War III would start in the Middle East, but now I know better. The Chinese will think all the Microsoft bugs and security loopholes are a cyber-attack from the United States, when it's really just the products behaving as designed.

Re:Bill Gates starts World War III?

[trybywrench]

hehe yeah they are going to be seriously ticked when their missile systems are "not responding"

Re:Bill Gates starts World War III?

[mselmeci]

Two words: Manual Override

Re:Bill Gates starts World War III?

[dcavanaugh]

"Two words: Manual Override"

You mean hitting the hard reset button when the system is nonresponsive and CTRL-ALT-DEL won't bring up the task list?

It's not really $750M in cash anyway

[dcavanaugh]

I'll bet it's just Microsoft "funny money", the same stuff they use to make settlement offers to the states.

Sure, they'll donate $750M worth of their products into a market that mostly pirates the stuff anyway. The actual cost to Microsoft should be maybe 1% of $750M. The bottom line is that widespread piracy of M$ products isn't enough to stop Linux. All those years of whining about piracy and now the problem is that pirates aren't working fast enough!

A Misquote

[kisielk]

When the article quotes Steve Ballmer as "What's good for the local industry in every country is good for Microsoft" the author must have got it backwards. What Steve Ballmer REALLY said is "What's good for Microsoft is good for the local industry in every country."

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Somebody please tell me. . . .

[Com2Kid]

WHY THE HELL the US has NOT YET placed blocks against US companies selling technology to commie countries?

Ugh. This is getting annoying.

::insert standard line about MS software being so insecure that it is a good thing the commies will be running it::

I [i]so[/i] hope that the CIA/NSA/Whatever are behind this and shoving security holes in all the pertinent software sold to the commies, maybe then for once they would actually be doing their [i]job[/i] instead of working on spying on us the U.S. people. . . .

Annoying.

Its $750 mil in BillBucks(TM)!

[El Camino SS]

That's right, Bill has finagled China into accepting green paper with his face on it!

Redeemable for all sorts of quality MS video games.

Re:Its $750 mil in BillBucks(TM)!

[The Creator]

>That's right, Bill has finagled China into accepting green paper with his face on it!

Don't the chinease think he's the president anyway?

Standard Microsoft Practice

[scum-e-bag]

From the article it looks like MS is willing to overlook China's legendary software 'sharing' as long as the government stays tight with Windows.

Isn't this just a standard Microsoft practice anyway? When was the last time Microsoft or the BSA actually cracked down on home networks which had 5 copies of windows all using the same serial??? The cash cow for Microsoft is in getting government compliance... tax the government... hrmmm....

New Slogans?

[twitter]

Microsoft, the People's Choice when there's only one option.

Efficiency, privacy and security proven in Communist China.

Marks, Mao, Gates, heros of the revolution.

Useful where free press is forbiden.

Making our enimies less productive every day.

Perfered by colective oligarchies 10 to 1.

You don't want to know what happens when you violate the EULA.

BSA, PRC, we taught them everything they know.

People who can only have one child won't mind the copy protection at all.

Dream on MS

[dh003i]

Getting a nation which is -- considering the number of people in it -- very poor...to pay $100 for each copy of windows (ok, maybe its $10 per copy on a volume deal). Dream on.

Same thing with Russia.

Ditto with India.

Sure, they'll pirate your software -- that's free. But why pay for it?

The fact is that Linux is the future in Russia, China, and India. Heck, because these government's don't have to worry about BSA lawsuites or pay expensive licensing fees, Linux might even rejuvinate their starved economies.

Government's around the world are starting to realize that Linux is -- in every way important -- superior to MS. The deficiencies in Linux (read, GUI, Xfree, anti-aliasing, [minor] hardware recognition [moderate]) can easily be fixed using the kind of money the government throws around.

Billions in the bank.

[T-Ranger]

Your comment got me thinking about how MS handles there money.

Computers, software, monopoilstic tactics, and technology asside, MS handles its business quite strangely. Specificly they issue very, very small dividends to its shareholders. BillG and friends would rather MS keep the cash then give it out to the other owners. If what you say is true and they have a history of large, apparently stupid, expensive projects, prehaps its possible the the BOD of MS would rather piss away there money then pay taxes or pay out dividends.

hmm....

People's Daily

[mqduck]

The online edition of China's publicly-owned newspaper, the People's Daily, has this artical: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200206/28/eng200 20628_98699.shtml

Hear it from the dragon's mouth.

Wanted, 59 countries

[Epeeist]

in which MS can dump $750M. That would use up their cash mountain wouldn't it?

China will be next economic boom

[mauddib~]

Consider the fact that China is the largest country in the world.
Now try to see that internet is the big antidote against propoganda.
Internet in China is unstoppable, and we will probably see a revolution in less than 10 years there. If such a large country starts participating in the industry with opensource software, it could tupple the balance for Microsoft. The Empire isn't stupid, they just can't make software.

Linux kernel articles in Chinese and Japanese

[goingware]

Advogato's member zhaoway has written a couple of technical articles on Linux that are published in Chinese by IBM developerWorks:

• Playing with Linux RAID
• The physical layout of the ext2 filesystem

I think with IBM investing in the Chinese Linux market, to the point of funding the education of Chinese kernel programmers by publishing articles like the ones Zhaoway is writing, we don't have much to worry from Microsoft.

Also, the Open Source Development Lab's Japan Development Center was kind enough to recently translate a couple of my Linux kernel testing articles into Japanese:

• Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel - Japanese - English
• Using Test Suites to Validate the Linux Kernel - Japanese - English

These and the other articles at the Linux Quality Database are all so far published under the GNU Free Documentation License. I was quite excited when the OSDL first mirrored the original english versions and then provided the Japanese translations.

I would personally be quite stoked if anyone translated any of the articles to other languages. There is also an article on web server application testing as well as one on C++ programming. I have more planned and invite others to contribute articles that have the general aim of improving the quality of Free Software.

People's Daily: Looks like a serious investment

[goingware]

According to the above-linked People's Daily article:

According to the memorandum of understanding (MOU) between SDPC and Microsoft, the US company will invest 6.2 billion yuan (US$750 million) in three years in education and training, academic research and co-operation, hardware manufacturing outsourcing, support in software outsourcing and strategic investments in local software companies.

That doesn't sound like play-money being "invested" in giveaways of software licenses that don't actually cost Microsoft anything.

A concern I have is that Microsoft may expose Chinese students to their "shared source initiative", which could poison their ability to contribute to Free Software.

But I found this paragraph especially intriguing:

Fang Xingdong, author of the famous book "Who Will Challenge the Hegemony of Microsoft," said Microsoft still needs to solve the problems of high prices and security to achieve long-term development.

I know I would be very interested to read an English translation of Mr. Fang's book, as would many in the West! Maybe Red Hat could sponsor a translation?

Will the communists sell out to MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

What will win in China. Communist sharing or capitalist buy-out?

Stay tuned for more.

Re:This is all your fault ! (was a joke)

[cobbaut]

it was a joke.
I never thought someone would actually take it serious. Next time I'll include a very big smiley.

Opportunity for The Good Guys(tm)?

[mikehoskins]

You know, if enough ./'ers raise a big stink about M$ not enforcing China's "sharing," while going after all those poor inner city kid's schools who are out of license compliance.... Hmmm.

Crashes

[tomhudson]

Come on guys, don't feed the trolls. :-)

Even Microsoft had to change their advertising in the trade rags, from "doesn't crash" to "crashes 50% less than Windows 98"

Re:Sega sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Well, I hope you continue to enjoy tugging your shrivelled little smelly cocklet over Sega's derivative games, then, you fucking braindead cockgobbler.

In fact, why don't you just fuck off into a pit somewhere, and sit crying into your hands like the lonely, cretinous asshole you really are? Or maybe because you'll get anally raped again?

Fucking twat. Piss off.