Digital DJ Turntable

Daniel Gomez-Ibanez writes "I made a digital turntable - it stores digital audio and plays it back like a record player. This lets you scratch the audio from a CD. I like it because there's no 'computer' involved- a four year old can figure it out. There's a description here." Daniel also has a more descriptive web page on the inspiration and design of this beast.

Comments

Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

Gilbert, Louis, Lamar, Booger and the rest of the nerds will have adequately nerdy equipment when they perform their next "No on 15" concert!

No on 15! Come on, we really mean it!

Re:Finally!

[NulDevice]

Interstingly enough (or not), the guy who played "Lamar" went on to play gangsta rapper "Tasty Taste" in the excellent mockumentary "Fear of a Black Hat."

News?

[YahoKa]

This isnt a new technology.

Re:News?

[excesspwr]

This isnt a new technology.

"the patent is already taken by a Swiss guy in 1997"

It's right there in the article. However, I had never heard of this and maybe others haven't either. Calm down. It'll be okay.

Re:News?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you'll find that other digital scratching machines don't have a motor. Their turntables are just static.

Also, having a line-in interface allows you to scratch voice if you require, something that is AFAIK impossible on simular devices.

Re:News?

[Verizon Guy]

That's the insightful comment I've read all day. All EEs should start submitting their projects to Slashdot! Tomorrow on Slashdot: John Doe creates a blinking LED, story at 11!

American DJ has had a comparible product for a while--it uses an actual turntable... but if you're going to do anything remotely serious... nothing beats a Pioneer CDJ-1000! Sure, it doesn't actually rotate, and whiners can complain all they want, but you get superior control. This thing can even wash the dishes with a simple mod!

Re:News?

[NiZm0]

This has definately already been done. Richie Hawtin and John Aquaviva amongst others has a dope digital turntable setup. All the tracks are stored on a laptop and manipulated with a turntable. http://www.finalscratch.com/fs2/start.asp

Good job though on your project.

Re:dithering razor

[Mr Teddy Bear]

This seems cool, but don't other things like this exist in mass production? I think Sony has something similar actually. But maybe I am just on crack.

Kinda like in Batman II?

[PDG]

Remember when Batman (played by Keaton) recorded the Penguin (Devito) onto a CD and then replayed it?

It always bugged me how Batman then 'scratched' the CD as if it were a record (which obviously is not possible)

Makes me wonder if this project was based on the same 'annoyance' and wanted to make something that would work.

Re:Kinda like in Batman II?

[pao93]

You should check out the Pioneer CDj-1000 (http://www.pioneerprodj.com/index2.mv) It has a big vinyl size plate so you can do scratching, beatmixing, and almost all the other tricks of vinyl. The scratching sounds just like the real thing and is totally easy to convert to from playing out vinyl. Plus it has some other really cool features, like reverse play, digital link to pioneer cross faders on their mixers, seamless looping, and much more. Of all the cd dj machines out there this has got to be the best. Unfortunately they don't play mp3's at the moment so you have to burn proper cd's. They're a little pricey too, but hey, they have nice blue lights. carl

Re:Kinda like in Batman II?

[Verizon Guy]

which obviously is not possible)

Umm... it's been possible for years... it's done in buffer.

Not only does the CDJ-1000 do it (like the previous poster mentioned)... the Pioneer CMX-3000 does it, along with the Denon DN-2100F, DN-2600F, DN-D9000, the American DJ PRO Scratch 1 and CMX, along with the Numark CDN-88 and Axis 8. IMHO, only Pioneer and Denon make rock-solid products, but I know I must be leaving some out!

Re:Kinda like in Batman II?

[MADCOWbeserk]

I used to have a college radio show, we had Denon players that had pitch controls. That was quite a while ago too, 96 or 97.

Re:Kinda like in Batman II?

[jovlinger]

Not forgetting the always cool BeOS solution, where the vinyl was a special time-code record, which was sampled by the computer, and which caused corresponding scratching to be performed on an mp3 file.

The cool thing with that setup was that you could needle drop anywhere into the track, in addition to using whichever player you had at hand.

Of course, I imagine they are dead in the water, what with the proliferation of BeOS platforms to run on and what not.

Re:Kinda like in Batman II?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was picked up as a product by Stanton (Magnetics), and after a long demo/development program, is finally being sold, I think.

http://www.finalscratch.com

They did port it away from BeOS, but it does run on Linux. It was also used exclusively by Richie Hawtin (Plastikman) on a promotional tour.

(Quick Summary)
You get software, the ScratchAmp (a USB device), and the two time-coded records. Plug your mixer/tables to the ScratchAmp, USB the ScratchAmp to your laptop, and fire up the software.

Pretty cool -- I think with corporate funding, they added some new features from the original, like track dropping. (Instead of needle-dropping to a different point in a song, you can needle drop to a completely different track)

Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[ObviousGuy]

There is a lot of white noise generated during scratching, noise that is not available on a digital CD.

How did you create the scratch effect?

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[PastorOfMuppets]

My guess is that he's got a sample of a real turntable scratch that is triggered whenever the encoder's shaft changes direction, and changes pitch based on speed.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[subsonic]

Pioneer makes a hella-fine CD turntable, the CDJ-1000. As far as just about anyone who's tried it can tell, it has the ability to behave exactly like a turntable when scartching/backspinnning/cueing. Although that uses CDs or stored tracks on flash media (i think).
However, vinyl will remain that "real" Dj's preferred media. As has been stated before, vinyl is sexy. Some dude standing in front of a crowd twiddling his fingers to mix tracks will never replace guys working the wheels of steel.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[panaceaa]

I have some turntables and I definitely agree that vinyl is a whole lot sexier than cds. But CD djs are definitely taking over the low-end of clubs. At an average dance club, most patrons don't know or care that the music is on CDs. It's unfortunate.

Vinyl will continue to be the medium of choice, though, because most house and trance songs just aren't available on CD. And you can see the musical progression on a record, so you can easily line up phrases (32-measures) and see where breaks are without the need to completely know a song 64 measures ahead.

What it comes down to is the quality of mixes you can create on each medium. You can create a much better experience, as a dj, if you can see the grooves and know where the climaxes and breaks are with relation to the needle. Until you can do that with CDs (with some visualization firmware), and until decent tracks are released on CD, vinyl will remain.

That said, going to good clubs you still see greats like Tiesto and van Dyk using CDs for about 15-25% of the tracks they play.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[p0d]

Here's where I can interject an actual comment.

Clubbing is my profession, I shoot for a local nightlife guide...

A lot of top DJs use CDs, since they get a lot of new material that way...some of those tracks you hear are on CD, because the artist cannot afford to get vinyl pressed at the moment..also, consider Tenaglia, who does 15 hour sets on average..can you imagine toting around 15 hrs worth of vinyl?!?

Certain other DJs, notably Erick Morillo and Steve Lawler, use the CD player as a sampler of sorts, carrying all their samples and noise on CDs...crobar South Beach just got equipped with CDJ-1000s, and with their response time and effects banks, they are quite akin to a true sampler from what I can see.

Vinyl has it's merits, certainly. Real clubs demand it. Your average "clubgoer" in Buttfuck, MI is not 'educated' enough to care, but in a big city with a true nightlife, vinyl, as well as a sophisticated CD deck like the 1000, is not only expected, but is demanded...

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[radish]

The reason the big DJs are sometimes using CD is bacause, although like you say most tunes are only available commercially on vinyl, before it's pressed up it comes from the studio on CDR. The big names need the NEWEST and LATEST stuff, traditionally this would have been supplied on an acetate, but those cost a fortune and only last a few plays.

Ask any real DJ if they actually prefer CD, and they'll look at you very strangely ;-) You're spot on about being able to see the music, also being able to drop the needle straight into the start of a break. There's another thing too - you know how CDRs always end up without labels or anything written on them, and you have no idea what they are? The same thing happens with white label vinyl (the test presses before it goes commercial). I knew a DJ who could recognise the tune, hell even the mix, just by looking at the grooves. Try that with a CD ;-)

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, much early techno was created in Buttfuck, MI.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[beru777]

It's true that the best tracks are still released onm vinyl and vinyl only... So I buy vinyl, record them through my soundcard, convert them to mp3s and spin using PCDJ...

I must say it works great. I don't have to carry heavy vinyl crates anymore. My vinyls stay at home and don't wear or get scratched. Mixing is easier (beatmatching is nearly automatic).

No scratching though, but I personally don't scratch (as most techno/house etc. DJs)

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[calarts_nutmeg]

Final scratch does an intersting job, using a special record that goes onto a convetional turntable that controls the audio playback on a linux box, so you can cue, scratch, and all the rest and integrate easily with an existing vinyl setup. TerminatorX is an awsome piece of software for linux that gets close as well, its what I use to dj. Then there's the new Pioneer cd tables that have a touch sensitive cuing surface, 0 latency and lifelike enough scratching that longtime pro vinyl heads like the Cut Chemist have switched to it.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[TeknoDragon]

if you can see the grooves and know where the climaxes and breaks are with relation to the needle. Until you can do that with CDs (with some visualization firmware), and until decent tracks are released on CD, vinyl will remain.

The CDJ1000 has several visual indicators that can give you some of these clues. There is a slow and fast indicator around the central wheel indicating position on the track. There is the "wave data" stuff on top that gives you the relative intensity of each part of the track (you can zoom upto x4, but the interface isn't very good and it scans pretty slow). Finally there is always the time/frame index.

Of course there's a gread deal of room for growth with these features. You've given me a new look at some vinyl features that the CDJ doesn't quite have yet.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[panaceaa]

Thats an interesting point about tracks first being released (in very small amounts) on CD first. I've also heard of DJs doing studio work and testing out the crowd reaction and overall mastering by spinning the track in clubs on CD, before the track ever gets released to anyone. This was done all the time in Chicago when house started, but on acetate then.

But for the most part I've just seen van Dyk and Tiesto play their own tracks on CD, well after they've been put to vinyl. It makes sense... they wrote the tracks, they've heard them thousands of times, so they don't need to see the vinyl or deal with deteriorating records.

Re:Scratching isn't simply sped up audio

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm. Alot of techno/house DJ's use "scratch-in" or "scratch-out" effects when mixing in a new record. You're definately not giving your crowd all the pleasure you can. ;)

this is really kinda keen

[Illandir]

Even though most dj's these days are MP3 whores, it would be refreshing to see some of this oldschool turntable style with more available media - We could slowly but surely be moving torwards an era of music like the one depicted in ReMix

but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Analog is better.

"...giving good finger sticktion."

[excesspwr]

Just what kind of article is Slashdot trying to get me to read here? I think I'm offended!

not the real feeling

[thopo]

vinyl is all about the FEELING. vinyl is sexy.

Re:not the real feeling

[panaceaa]

With vinyl you can see how the music progresses just by looking at the grooves. With a light shining sideways on a record, you can see the quiet areas (dark) and the climaxes (lighter) and beat changes (differing reflective qualities), and know what to expect. When the needle on one record is about to come to a dark spot, you know the beat's about to drop out, and if you're mixing another table in, you can plan accordingly.

You can't do that with CD. With CDs you have to memorize the offsets of all the breaks and drops. It makes mixing music a lot more difficult and for the most part, the quality diminishes. However, when DJs have their own songs, they commonly use CDs because they know the songs so well already, and they don't want to deal with the deteriorating quality that records have.

Re:dithering razor

[HP LoveJet]

Maybe it's just an error-diffusing way to reduce your 24-bit beard to 8 bits of stubble.

How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[RAruler]

Final Scratch

Final Scratch, uses a hybrid of actual turntables and digital audio. You use a pair of special vinyl records, connect the audio out of the turntables into this strange USB device which controls the software that allows you to cue/scratch mp3s...

It was only available for systems running BeOS, but they are branching out with Mac OS/Win32 and Linux versions.. You only need a 'standard' DJ setup, two turntables and a two line mixer.. it's insanely cool.. the only downside is the price, $500USD, but thats relatively cheap to a stack of vinyl, or your Technics 1200's.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am ALMOST certain i saw a slashdot article on this about three or so years ago. I cannot find it however. Does anyone remember what i am tlaking about? I seem to remember that the story blurb was written by CdmrTaco and he mentioned something about how he'd heard DJ Shadow was using one, but i can't remember too well.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[kevinqtipreedy]

I don't remember seeing it on /., but Pro Sound and Stage Lighting has a nice article on it in their July 2002 catalog on page 41. They also sell it and have a little more about it on page 57. They also have information on it here on their website.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[spoonboy42]

Actually, Final Scratch is Linux-based. The install CD comes with a bare-bones linux distro and partitioning utils to get you started. Alternately, you can just put the final scratch software on any laptop that already has linux installed. Oh, and you still need a good set of direct-drive tables to use it effectively (1200's or something comparable, i.e. Vestax PDX-2000's, Stanton STR8-100's, etc.).

I should also note that the Pioneer CDJ-1000 has beaten this home-brew to the punch. It has pitch-adjust and a substantial jog-wheel that is actually adequate for scratching. DJ Nu-Mark and Cut Chemist have been using CDJ-1000s in their live shows for some time, now.

The CDJ-1000 has the benefit of almost zero latency and no skipping. On the other hand, you can drop-cue in final scratch, and its "record box" categorization system is very convenient (and 3 ms of latency is not too bad). You can also plug your final scratch system into pretty much any club setup. Lugging around CDJ-1000's is not so easy.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[(V)onro3]

It was only available for systems running BeOS, but they are branching out with Mac OS/Win32 and Linux versions

To be more exact on this. Beos is no longer being used as the os of choice sense palm bought them. They now use an embeded version of linux for windows. As for the mac...I would assume that it will just use OS X to run sense it is unix. We will not be sure because there has been no anouncements for the mac as of yet.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Anonymous Cowrad]

I don't know about DJ Shadow, but if it's good enough for Richie Hawtin, it's good enough for me.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[panaceaa]

the only downside is the price, $500USD, but thats relatively cheap to a stack of vinyl, or your Technics 1200's.

But you can't get any decent house/trance/dnb music on CD. At least not in a timely basis. Look at the BBC Dance Charts. You can only get about 20% of those songs on CD. And probably only 10% of the current "hot" remix. But at the right stores you can get 80-90% of them on vinyl right now. So even though a CD set-up is cheaper than a vinyl set-up, you can't do nearly as much with it.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[afidel]

Played with the CDJ-1000 last weekend at a warehouse party, it is substatially different from traditional tables, but I think it makes an interesting addition to the mix for those willing to experiment. The best use IMHO is for stuff that is not out/will never be out in vinyl format.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Blackbox42]

Sorry to bust your bubble but final scratch was designed and available on BeOS about 2 years before making it to linux. It was Be's "killer app" (more of a look what we can do that anything else).

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Julian Plamann]

s/sense/since

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Verizon Guy]

For about $1500 USD you can get a Denon DN-D9000, forget about all your worries about your computer not booting, etc, hard drive crash, you name it --- and, do some cool tricks, too! (What's in the video? It can play a song in reverse --- you say vinyl can do that too? But not in the forward direction! It inverts the sound (i.e., take a sample and flip it over itself) so you can easily remove curse words when playing to easily-offended crowds. Yep, reverse in the forward direction. Confused? Good.)

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Verizon Guy]

Oops! Wrong link. The parent link is true reverse play. This is reverse play in the forward direction. While I'm at it... let me clarify: it inverts what you _just played_ for x secs, but still counting the time forwards; when you trigger it again, it starts playing where the counter currently is.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[TeknoDragon]

I've started mixing with CDJ's... here is my opinion on the current problems with the CDJ1000

* cd buffering to memory is too slow, making it hard to do extremely quick seeks and scratch off of a randomly selected point you seeked to on the disk. Note you can do this using the hot-queues, but that's because each hot queue holds a small buffer of it's own.
* the rapid seek function is not as smooth as even the CDJ100
* too few queue points, you need a direct song map or multiple queue points so that you can approach a "needle drop" skill on a digital TT

I should note that very few players offer the true control of the CDJ1000. Even tho the platter doesn't spin pressure on the platter halts and resumes play. I haven't touched the Dannon yet, but none of the other Pioneer DTT's do this.

DJ's generally HATE anything but vinyl. DJing is a community of luddites. Final scratch is a step towards what they like, but the sample rate and resolution of mp3's and even CD's are not rich enough to completely match the performance of analog records passed through effects and slowed down. Perhaps with a next generation DTT with DVD-A support.

Of course this begs the question that most audio is produced in the studio at 48khz so what would DVD-A do for you that a better interpolation algorithm wouldn't?

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Logopop]

I think I would use this one instead:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/entsyscorp/a mdjpros2cd t.html

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[urmensch]

have you heard anyone use final scratch?

Final scratch is a step towards what they like, but the sample rate and resolution of mp3's and even CD's are not rich enough to completely match the performance of analog records passed through effects and slowed down

all i can tell you is that what i heard come out of the jak system in detroit this year was phenomenal.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[vitalidea]

"DJ's generally HATE anything but vinyl. DJing is a community of luddites."


That's a gross generalization.

Your average radio dj wouldn't know vinyl from a donut.

Your average mobile dj would hate carrying around vinyl and have already switched over to CDs / mp3s almost unanimously.

Your average club dj on the other hand would be married to vinyl and their technics 1200 mk3 or m3d.

Scratch DJs are a totally different breed. A battle dj is focused on the feel of vinyl for cuttin. Vinyl is not the choice because of sound fidelity. So, if you get the feel of vinyl at the ease of and mp3, I don't think you'll see a huge upset. Record burn costs battle djs some serious coin.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[DjCheeto]

yeah that's great but did they have that external unit that you plug in the turntable to? And did they have the special encoded records? If not than what's the use of final scratch on BeOS if it isn't what the final scratch is actually about?

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[DjCheeto]

" Your average club dj on the other hand would be married to vinyl and their technics 1200 mk3 or m3d."
That's also a gross generalization, not all club dj's are married to technics. Many other companies put out awesome turntables, I some times feel that technics is the Redhat or Mandrake of turntables. Everyone assumes a good dj will be using technics because it's a brand people like to throw around a lot. Very corporate approach. I personally use Numark TT-2 Pros and they are my favorites at the moment. Stanton has nice turntables too. But no turntable has left me completely satisfied.

You're right about all the other ones though ;)

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[KILNA]

That's not to say you can't get them on MP3. I would say that club play of someone's music without buying it is morally justifiable, if the musician didn't make it purchasable in CD or MP3. They'll probably sell more regardless of format if the audience reaction is positive, and their rating in the charts goes up.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Anonymous Coward]

was this the setup that jeff mills and ritchie hawtin were beta testing last year?

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[mpe]

DJ's generally HATE anything but vinyl. DJing is a community of luddites.

IMHO calling them that is unfair since the supposedly new and improved technology can't do something the old technology can.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright Mr. High and Mighty...

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/1998/FinalSc ra tch.html
From N2IT 's press release in *1998*
"FinalScratch works with any turntable without any hardware modifications. Actions such as spinning the vinyl back and forth, and repositioning the needle are immediately translated to similar operations on the digital media FinalScratch controls. The product consists of a set of specially prepared vinyl records, a custom amplifier, and software that tracks the vinyl's position precisely. "

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[radish]

Yeah but as we all know, those "other" kinds of DJs aren't DJs at all, they're just guys who play records ;)

Personally, I think the final scratch thing looks amazing, I'd love to try it. But $500 plus a laptop? Hmm...pricey. I'd like to play with the CDJ1000 too, but I can't imagine switching to anything CD based right now.

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[Anonymous Coward]

$500 plus a laptop *plus* the cost of your standard DJ setup. (Mixer/tables)

However, I'd think that you'd probably be able to (theoretically) cut your overall costs greatly by finding ways to obtain your musical tracks/samples other than buying all the vinyl. (Just wait until you're able to find "Sasha - Massively_Overrated_Track.mp3" online somewhere)

Then again, I think people would be hard pressed not to buy all the vinyl anyway, just because. :)

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[TeknoDragon]

oh, sorry... i forgot that the rent-a-dj (mobile dj) and radio jock (radio dj) counted ;->

you're right... club and scratch DJ's are the luddites there

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[TeknoDragon]

IMO

Technics -> Slackware
Stanton -> RedHat
Numark -> SuSe

not sure what would match up with Debian... turn tables aren't that advanced ;->

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[TeknoDragon]

the problem is... that the new technology can do the same tricks that 95% of have the skill to master... that and you can do MORE with the new technology

just like it's possible for a master craftsman to make a finer sculpture with a hammer and chizel rather than a chainsaw

vinyl has applications that DTT's can't match, but technology like what's introduced in this article is making that last 5% shrink all the time.

finally I feel justified in calling DJ's luddites because they view anything that makes the tasks they mastered easier to do with disdain... no matter how much is added to the performer's range of options or how many new skills need to be mastered to use the new device, many still view CDJ's as "posers" and "not sexy" and "wouldn't pay to see that"

Re:How about a real Digital Tuntable?

[expunged]

finally I feel justified in calling DJ's luddites because they view anything that makes the tasks they mastered easier to do with disdain... no matter how much is added to the performer's range of options or how many new skills need to be mastered to use the new device, many still view CDJ's as "posers" and "not sexy" and "wouldn't pay to see that"

Sounds like linux vs. windows users.
Or debian vs. Mandrake users.

;o)

Spin state tech.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is just me or is the Spin Lattice Simulator just about the coolest thing ever?

cool, but... is it useful?

[r3volve]

first off, IANADJ, but it seems kind of limited to me. it's cool tech and all, but 20 second loops? you would be better off with a few battle wax records and a regular deck.

or, there's final scratch, which uses timecode records to manipulate audio.. so you could use any old deck to "spin" digital audio.

still, cool idea.

Love some of the other stuff, but...

[korielgraculus]

Just wondering about the vibrating razor, I notice that it has patent pending and I was wondering when you came up with the idea.

There was a TV program called "better by design" here in the UK about 1998 (I think) where a pair of industrial designers had to improve everyday products, coming up with a range of alternatives, one of which was (go on, guess) ... a vibrating razor.

Re:Love some of the other stuff, but...

[puto]

Ahhh, I had a vibrating Gilette about 5 years ago, took a A battery, didnt seem to work any better. Though the heft was better.

The turn table is old news too.

Maybe we are getting older and have already seen this things but then again maybe people are just not doing the proper research. here is one http://www.bluegoldusa.com/wholesale/designer_razo rs.shtml.

Puto

Here's a thread that got buried

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=35688&cid=3854 893

Yawn.

[Pig Hogger]

American DJ has been making CD-players with a built-in scratch box for a gooooood while. No need to gloat about it.

Re:Yawn.

[MrScience]

For only 4 times the cost! :)

Re:Yawn.

[GT_Alias]

Yeah, but have you ever used one of those? It's ok for fine-tuning the timing of the song to match beats and what not, but for genuine scratching and holding, nothing is the same as literally having the tunes right under your fingers. There's just something eminently satisfying about it.

Not pretending that I understood everything this guy did, it still looks like an improvement over the current "digital turntables"

Re:Yawn.

[RogueOne]

Technics produce a scratch cd player, check out the new CDJ1000, yummy!!! & BTW they make much better gear than that poxy american DJ outfit

Re:Yawn.

[Aerog]

Of course, this has to take into account the fact that American DJ makes second-class products. I bought an ADJ mixer back in the day, and have to say that if it weren't so cheap, I'd never have bought it. The cutoffs are just about nonexistant, the fader gives problems constantly, and it just lacks a lot of features that I would have expected to be there.

On a semi-related note, a Scratch DJ friend of mine got an ADJ t-shirt from relatives for Christmas and everyone constantly bugs him about it. It's just one of those things.

Re:dithering razor

[Anonymous Coward]

The blade is totally exposed. It looks more like a face planer.

Is this Dr Suise's site???

[azcoffeehabit]

a couple of pics and a paragraph made good reading a while back... At least put up a nice shiney golden left edge border or something.

Re:Is this Dr Suise's site???

[Anonymous Coward]

give the guy a break.
while you were busy trying to make your web page look cooler than your neigbhor's, he was actually building things.

But you can SEE vinyl...

[tinrobot]

One of the biggest cues DJ's use when scratching is the pattern of bands on the record. Good DJs can usually drop the needle to with a few grooves of the spot they want.

Not sure how this would be done digitally, but the guy's design is still a pretty cool exercise in man machine interface design.

Re:But you can SEE vinyl...

[68K]

Dude, there's only one groove per side on a vinyl record. :-)

FinalScratch?

[tswinzig]

I remember hearing about a program called FinalScratch that is REAL similar to this, a few years ago. I think it came out first for BeOS. It's the same kind of thing, in that it uses digital audio for the source, but it's actually tied into a real turntable with a "real" vinyl record, and it sounds like it has a lot of cool features for DJ's.

Here's their site.

Got a URL now :)

[korielgraculus]

The Design Council were involved apparently.

Scratching ...

[White Shade]

As has been posted before, there's more to the sound of scratching than just speeding up/slowing down the sound ... There are significant changes in volume, and increases in teh amount of noise. And, if you move the record really slow you get a strange sorta softened crunch noise which is very different than the 'normal' sound you get from a slowed down audio stream..

Still, it's a damn good idea, and if nothing else (and it's definitely more than this), it would be a kickass gimmick to have on stage with you!

Technology is a good thing...

Re:Scratching ...

[DJ Uptime]

There are significant changes in volume, and increases in teh amount of noise. And, if you move the record really slow you get a strange sorta softened crunch noise which is very different than the 'normal' sound you get from a slowed down audio stream..

All of which should be easily mimicked by a DSP. The changes in "teh" volume, noise, and "crunch" are physical characteristics of the needle suspension. Last I checked, physics, math, and digital processing work pretty well together.

Re:Scratching ...

[_am99_]

I has the privledge of trying Final Scractch a few months ago. A friend is working for Richie Hawton and John Aquviva (spelling?) who are the main forces behind the product. ( have not tried the

When I tried it, it felt the same as norrmal wax to me. I am not much of a scratcher, but my friend who is a (hip hop) scratching/turntablist also tried it and agreed with me; it is just as responsive as normal records.

I have played a number of CD based devices, but none of them seem to really be even close to the feel of regular records. A couple of DJs have said that they are getting quite good, but no matter how good it is, I can imagine that the feeling of a CD can ever compare to to wax.

For the DJs out there, I really agree with Hawtin, in that the future of electronic music, in a live setting, will be for those that can work with music technology beyond that of turntables. I dream of the day where there is an open framework for music software, and Final Scratch (and other music software) will integrate with things like (Stienburg) Reason and whatnot. Mac OS X is showing a good start toward this goal. Anyways, I feel that Final Scratch really changes DJing, in that you can bring all thee musicy ou want to a club, and not have to carry a million records. This allows you to work the crowd more effectivily. Also, a DJ would never have to buy records just to have the current hit tracks; but instead only shop for rare tracks that no one else has.

Re:Scratching ...

[bad-badtz-maru]

Technology as primitive as digital signal processing cannot be expected to reproduce the output of complex audio components such as the vacuum tube's "warmth" or the turntable needle's "crunch noise".

maru

Re:Scratching ...

[Neon Spiral Injector]

Plus DJs are always coming up with new super secret scratchs. Unless you build a complete physical model of the turn table, record, needle, and everything else involved, and be able to compute every part that would generate a sound in realtime, there will be things you can do on a real turntable that the people writing the DSP code never thought of.

"most DJs"?

[Wakko Warner]

I've never seen a DJ that plays MP3s, and I'd laugh at one that did. Real DJs use vinyl and, to a lesser extent, CD.

What on earth can you do as an MP3 DJ? Attempt to poorly beatmatch?

At least you can scratch CDs now.

- A.P.

Re:"most DJs"?

[acm]

Why would beatmatching be any harder with an mp3 than with a CD? It's not. Especially considering professional CD players that play CD and mp3s (and emulate scratching).

Re:"most DJs"?

[Anonymous Coward]

The mp3 whore dj's that I know burn their mp3's to CD and then use the club's pitch control (& perhaps scratchable) CD player. But yes, I'd laugh at a dj who showed up to work with a laptop holding his mp3 collection and MS Media Player.

Re:"most DJs"?

[Wakko Warner]

Well, yeah, but then they're just playing stolen music on CDs. That's different.

A guy with a laptop and Winamp with the pitch control plugin gets the gas-face from me, though.

- A.P. (DJing for 13 years now...)

Re:"most DJs"?

[Uksi]

Yep, there are actually quite a few DJs who play using CDs. Vast majority of clubs have CD decks available in addition to the turntables.

Now whether the CDs played are audio CD-Rs with decoded MP3s is a different question :).

Denon and Sony

[punkfoo]

Denon and Pioneer have great digital turntables - the Denon DN-D9000 and the Pioneer CDJ-1000. They are quite impressive.

Re:Denon and Sony

[Verizon Guy]

The first time I saw the 9000 I almost creamed myself. See the videos

Re:Denon and Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

don't lie fag, you creamed all over little timmah!
Timmah!

FinalScratch already does this

[Xcott R13, 3(0,R4)]

FinalScratch does the same thing, without any special sensors or electronics. You just use your standard turntable, a vinyl LP with a special audio signal, and plug the output into your computer. Software does the rest.

IMHO this is the best solution, because software (and disk space) is much easier to upgrade. Plus, you don't need to find space for One More Gadget. Instead you can slake your gadgethirst by purchasing a niftier computer.

Also see MixMeister / GRAM

[r]

While on the topic of digital DJ'ing - if you're looking for software, check out MixMeister. It's one of the most interesting DJ software titles around, with great waveform and BPM manipulations tools (ie. changing speed without changing pitch), and smart automatic beat matching.

I understand the free GDAM has similar abilities, but I haven't used it. Any comments from those who have would be appreciated!

Razor

[Anonymous Coward]

I was more impressed with the razor..
50% less cutting... wow!
Maybe I can start to shave again?

Re:Razor

[Anonymous Coward]

I think my current razor is at 50% cutting power. And I didn't have to do anything special to get it this way!

Final Scratch is actually...

[LightJockey]

... based entirely in Linux, because as it says on Stanton's website, Windows is "not a stable enough environment"

I've played with Final Scratch, Ritchie Hawtin had a hand in it, and it is, without a word of a doubt, incredible. But if you really want to go pure digital, check out the Pioneer CDJ-1000, allows you to save wave data off a CD, store it to an SD card, scratch, cue, add effects, everything. Check it out here

Re:Final Scratch is actually...

[leomekenkamp]

While the Pioneer CDJ1000 is a truly marvelous tool for a DJ, one thing it cannot do is store wave (.WAV) data from a CD to an SD card; what it can do is analyze the music on a CD and give a visual representation of it on a little display. This is to enable a CD to look at the 'grooves' on a CD just like on vinyl. This display is called the wave display. In order to speed this thing up the CDJ1000 can store this data internally and/or on an SD. Pioneer does have another player, which can in fact play .WAV type data from an SD, an can be controlled from a PC or standalone. For more info check out http://pioneerprodj.com/products/cdj1000/cdj1000-i ntro.mv and http://pioneerprodj.com/products/dmp555/dmp555-int ro.mv

Interesting choice of words...

[guttentag]

I like it because there's no 'computer' involved- a four year old can figure it out.

Many four year olds are more computer literate than their parents, but I suspect they'd have trouble figuring out a turntable.

Re:Interesting choice of words...

[nic1m]

I agree completely. I was about to write the same thing.
Back to the product in question; what's the point of trying to imitate an analog task with a digital imitation? It will never sound the same!

Re:Interesting choice of words...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wants some moddy-moddy points for that post.

-a four year old

Re:Interesting choice of words...

[drDugan]

actually -- you're wrong.

I have a gifted four year old and know many. None of them are more computer literate than normal adults -- and yes, a four year old WOULD figure out a turntable.

that said -- it WAS a funny comment.

Re:Interesting choice of words...

[ebbomega]

I dunno, man... Four year-old capabilities seems to have done _some_ people some commercial success.

Re:Interesting choice of words...

[MemeRot]

You do realize I hope, that vinyl is in 99.9% of cases digitally mastered before being pressed on an analog media.

The advantage of vinyl over cd/mp3 is all in the interface, which this maintains. He just needs to cram 100 times as much ram in there, to take it from 20 second samples (pretty useless) to 20 minute samples (which will fit any song).

OtsJuke

[dknj]

A similiar program (quite functional too) exists for windows. OtsJuke lets you create a playlist, mix songs, and has a virtual turntable which lets you scratch music (mp3s, wav, and digital audio extraction). While it isn't hardware based, its pretty nifty for a cheap software based solution.

-dk

The Ultimate Digital DJ table

[toupsie]

The one, the only, Numba One.

no such thing as a single "turntable scratch"

[Anonymous Coward]

scratches are significantly different whether youre scratching a horn, snare, vocal, etc.

Man, I suck....

[1000101]

My crappy case mod and half dead dremel all of the sudden seem so inadequate....

Lamar

[kentyman]

"And a rap by li'l ol' me, Lamar!"

Bottle opener...

[fogof]

Wow ... that is one sexy bottle opener. (If you got no clue what I am talking about follow the link. It's the pic all the way at the bottom)

old school

[Anonymous Coward]

wayyyy off topic but:

Jimi, Duane, Clapton never needed
no stinkin turntables.

They 'made' music.

Re:old school

[ObviousGuy]

My ass makes music too, but the bean industry would claim that it was derivative.

Re:old school

[Aerog]

Go see any show by Kid Koala (i.e. DJ for the Gorillaz, and most importantly Bullfrog). He "makes" music, too and he's insanely good at it. I know a hell of a lot of people who can pick up a guitar and learn how to play a pile of songs fairly quickly, but almost nobody who can scratch for any credit. It's a lot harder than it looks and someone who's talented at it can make some fairly impressive sounds.

Re:old school

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out HeSohi if you'rein the SF bay area. He tours and makes music on the fly. His songs are published on Imperialdub records.
http://www.imperialdub.com

- Zav

Flamebait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Care to explain that mod?

Review of CDJ-1000

[jcsehak]

http://remixmag.com/ar/remix_pioneer_cdj/index.htm

I've heard nothing but good things about these. They're supposed to feel just like vinyl. Of course, for over a grand, they damn well better.

terminatorX

[seanmeister]

kinda reminds me of the very cool terminatorX program.... the author built a turntable for scratching using an old turntable and some mouse guts.

Re:terminatorX

[stor]

I was about to mention the same thing.

TerminatorX is suprisingly good. I've been checking it out for a few years now and have been very impressed with the quality of the program.

The scratching sounds great (really quite realistic: not bad at all) and the GUI interface is nicely polished and intuitive IMNSHO. One of the most polished apps I've seen in X11. Check it out. Limited usefullness sure but really quite a bit of fun!

Of course, ymmv.

Cheers
Stor

Holy cow.

[Deal-a-Neil]

Honest to God, who in the hell is this guy? Have you seen the stuff this guy has invented? Son of a bitch, I knew I should have went to Stanford.

Re:Holy cow.

[jmichaelg]

When I saw that Stanford had a product realization lab I regretted I wasn't young enough to "have went to Stanford." Then again, with grammar like that, they wouldn't have let me in.

Been there, done that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks exactly like something me and a few friends of mine put together over spring break freshman year. We actually ended up giving it to a DJ friend who still uses it at some gigs.

MOD THIS UP!!! Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

fuckin' riot, man.

Re:Gene Kan

[owlmeat]

Ask Taco, I submitted it an hour after the news broke. Of course it's news when one of our own dies.

FinalScratch still needs a CPU

[doorbot.com]

Despite being a nearly exact copy of a previous post 11 minutes prior, I will hazard a response to both posters:

The customized system presented in this story does not require a computer. So while it's great that FinalScratch runs on BeOS, it still requires a computer which is exactly opposite what our story's protagonist aimed to create.

Yawn

[Pig Hogger]

American DJ has been making CD-players with a built-in scratch box for a gooooood while . No need to gloat about old technology.

Re:Yawn

[Blackbox42]

But:

1) They don't sample and playback which is what this device does

2) The quality of ANYTHING made my American DJ leaves much to be desired. They are the mcdonalds of DJ equipment.

Nigga Please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch the Quicktime movie:

http://www.stanford.edu/~dgi/university/tt.mov

From the site:

[ByteHog]

A digital signal processor seemed to be the answer but the cost of the development kit was $3000. Fortunately, thanks to a generous "donation" from "corporate sponsors" I obtained the development kit and a DSP board.

Does this make anyone else wonder where he got it? :)

Pioneer CDJ-1000

[Tokerat]

http://www.pioneerprodj.com/products/cdj1000/cdj10 00.mv - The Pioner CDJ-1000

A very nice machine, to put it lightly.

Wait a second. . . .

[Aerog]

. . .I have a turntable almost exactly like that one. I'm going to cut that bad boy open tonight!!

Re:Gene Kan (off topic I know)

[10 Speed]

article here

Ah but can other products do THIS???

[eatscience]

The super-uber-coolest-ever thing about this device is that it samples and scratches ANY AUDIO IN. That means you can preamp a mic into it and scratch a vocalist live on stage. Same with a live guitar. Riff it, scratch it: all at once with one button interface and turntable control. This THING KICKS A$&!!!!!!

So RAD. I want two!

Re:Ah but can other products do THIS???

[Anonymous Coward]

How are you going to scratch live vocals? You only have half the material to scratch with?

QT Turntable

[djcatnip]

My brother and I wrote a program in 1997 called QTTurntable, and it's based on quicktime. It basically acts like a turntable without the hardware... the interface is screaming for something better, and and also screaming for hardware support. I've opened up QTTurntable as Open Source Software, and it's available for viewing on SourceForge and we're actively seeking help in a windows and linux (?) port if possible. Basically, it's great for producers who don't have the money to press their records to vinyl to check their songs in the mix, or for beginning DJ's to use for a second turntable. Please check out the sourceforge page, and if you're interested in participating, you can email me at steve at earthorbitdesign dot com.

Re:QT Turntable

[djcatnip]

I dread the traffic this is going to generate, but you can visit the official page for future reference.

Serato have a few things like coming out...

[Joff_NZ]

Check out http://www.serato.com/products/

Depending on the version you get, you can scratch your 'choons using ProTools, or Digital Performer or your laptop/desktop - using your normal standard turntables... the release dates day Q3 2002, but these have been seen demonstrated at the recent New Zealand Music Convention.. and apparently it wowed those who saw it...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Final Screech

[Kidentropy]

how about vaporware...

Final Scratch has been delayed since April... I had one on preorder originally back then... full price down... then after delay to delay... kept 100$ down... and then after this months delay alongside a statement on the OSX/OS9 version not being until the end of the year... I basically gave up...

I really don't doubt that it will come out... but they are taking their sweet time with it... as well as have a wonderful forum for questions about the setup that basically consists of no company contact whatsoever... and a bunch of wannabe's stroking each other profusely

I'm luddite as hell... I'm still basically using a cutting head in Colorado to put unreleased stuff onto vinyl (to get that real vinyl feel with extra crackles from the acetate)... I have also been using a little program called Megaseg... which has a really nice feel and interface (http://www.megaseg.com)

Although it may be Stanton's 'killer app' if they even know what means... they are nieve in thinking that there are no alternatives to their 'revolutionary' product that they've announced was hitting the street for the last five months... and also nieve to lock out alot of Pro-Audio types using Mac based studios... It does follow the Stanton mindset perfectly though with previous products... (looks around the room frantically for any equipment with the stanton logo on it...)

for us mac types... there ARE alternatives... one of which is Serato Scratch (only a plugin at the moment with plans to be more)... the aforementioned CDJ-1000... and even THIS...which... in total anti-slashdot lingo... gets the big ups... troll me now or troll me later...

the fact of the matter is... there are people... especially in drum and bass... which has its own small niche... that have a need for playing unreleased stuff... especially if you are a producer... the norm has been cutting 'dubplates'... which cost 50$ a pop... after cutting exclusive tracks... you are looking at 300-400$ a month to satisfy yours and your audiences habit...

the 500$ pricetag is pretty cheap regarding that... but its a first generation product... that continues to be delayed for mysterious reasons... and highly dependant on issues such as latency and processor speed... and we've already seen Darwin kicking major ass when it comes to audio latency under HEAVY system load... which I don't doubt the product demands... and OSX support is pretty much nil until some fairytale date... and they've already been telling us longwinded stories about its release date...

you can witness the carnage for yourself at:

http://www.stantonmagnetics.com/forums/default.a sp

Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[i_am_nitrogen]

Could you explain to a layperson (me) how you can see those phrases on the vinyl? Every piece of vinyl I've seen, it's hard enough just to see where one song ends and the next begins. Then again, the newest record I've seen is from 1978... Are records pressed differently now, or are trance records labeled somehow?

As for making it so you can identify phrasing and such, I always wondered how hard it would be to add a new type of packet to the Ogg (or some other) format, so that you can store uncompressed audio (or 320 kbit compressed for the super poor DJ's who can't afford to burn a lot of CD's yet...) in the file, along with beat and sample information for each audio frame. A playback program or digital turntable could read this information and build a visualization chart that looks something like

[Insert here the best ASCII art interface diagram ever that the lameness filter wouldn't pass through no matter how much I varied the characters -- see my /. journal for the ascii diagram]

Base song title/artist
Location of beats
Base song samples
< Sample1 > < Sample1 >
< - - - - Sample2 - - - - >
Sources added by the DJ
Line going through to indicate current position
Current song time Song time remaining
Current show time Show time remaining

P.S. -- If you're thinking of commercializing on this, then patent is pending (with free license to share-and-share-alike (i.e. GPL, LGPL...)projects). Otherwise, I'm too poor to file a patent.

At any rate, I've always wanted to try my hand at spinning some tracks, I've made some loop-based songs before (using my own loops that I created). What's the best way to start learning to DJ?

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, if you 'DJ' with vinyl you have vinyl singles, not a whole album. So on one side of the record you'll find one song (sometimes two or three). The record is cutted less dense then a normal album. Maybe you can imagine that you see differences now on the record..
Go and see in you local dance record store!!

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[gregington]

When you buy dance vinyl, there are at most two tracks on side of a 12" (and usually, there is only one). This means that the grooves are spaced quite far apart, so that the whole track takes up a lot of space. It is then quite easy to spot the breakdowns and different parts of the track.

BTW: Dance LPs aren't LPs in the old sense, with 30 mins per side. Dance LP's contain multiple pieces of vinyl, with one or two tracks per side.

As for learning to DJ, just buy a pair of turntables, a mixer, headphones and some records, and practice, practice practice! Stick with Technics 1200's if you can afford them as they are the industry standard. I don't have any recommendations on cheaper turntables.

Recess's DJ Hints is a useful resource for learning how to mix.

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[ebbomega]

Y'know, It'd be kinda tough to capitalize on it, since Some people have been working on similar software types For a good long time now, and if the name "Amiga" means anything to you, you should know it.

That being said, attempting to get certain organizations to mass-produce said file type and push to get it to a more universal and high-quality source (Not like it's not already there) would seem to be a bit futile... Radio DJs give enough exposure to commercial music than to want to bend to the will of Production-oriented DJs like Hawtin. There's enough tracklisters who promote the music to the lowest common denominator to distribute the music appropriately.

Kay. I gotta stop posting drunk. Did that just make any sense?

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[jovlinger]

isn't that what's normally called an EP?

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[Anonymous Coward]

um just outta curiosity what the hell does tracker software have to do with cd tables??

and also djs(who mix) may use cds but vinyl is unreplaceable for turntablist

Re:Vinyl vs. CD cueing

[TeknoDragon]

some of the visual cues in your "patent" are allready present in prior art (check http://www.atomixmp3.com )

Don't forget about these tools:

[steppin_razor_LA]

AtomixMP3 is set up a lot like turntables -- i.e. it is optimized for real-time DJing. If you have multiple sound cards (or as SBlive using front/rear speakers), you can cue up the next song in the headphones while the other is playing on the speakers. It gives you some visual feedback (waveform) as to what is coming up in the song.

Mixmeister is better for creating CD compilations -- you can set up tempo, volume, and frequency envelopes in a set up similar to a multitrack recorder. I've used it to make some fun beatmixed compilations.

You can also use more advanced tools like Sonic Foundry Acid Pro which are better w/ loops and effects -- but Acid is sadly missing a tempo envelope tool and it's technology for changing the tempo w/o changing the pitch doesn't seem to be as good as Mixmeister's...

Software could fix this..

[steppin_razor_LA]

When you use tools like Acid and Mixmeister (note - these aren't "realtime" DJ tools though), you can see the waveform of the song (which IMHO has got to be better than "grooves").

If someone would incorporate this technology into a program like AtomixMP3 (yes -- you'd need to build the waveform graphs ahead of time in a database) then I don't see why this would be a problem.

Most of the big club DJs aren't taking requests -- they could get their music collection prescanned on a computer...

How is this modded as redundant?

[MemeRot]

Mods, you're smoking my crack again, give it back. This was the first comment pointing out similar technologies that exist in mass production, redundant my ass.

Re: Isn't this idea about a decade old?

[Greedo]

I *swear* I remember seeing a mainstream product that did this at my local music store around 5 to 10 years ago. I'm sure of it.

A quick scan of Yamaha and Roland's websites don't turn anything up though.

I don't think dementia is setting in yet ... anyone else remember this?

laugh at one?

[MemeRot]

You'd laugh at Richie Hawtin and John Acquaviva? I doubt it. They're some of the original pioneers. Richie is famous for his sets that mix songs, effects, and drum machines. He made the switch to Final Scratch (maps mp3's to a special vinyl record) so that he can carry the 3000 or so tracks that he wants with him around in his notebook, rather than having to tote 3 refrigerator box size crates around with him. Final Scratch and similar systems combine the portability of mp3 with the vinyl handling ability you traditionally think of when you think of djs (you can even needle drop the mp3s).

The one disadvantage of mp3 or cd is that you can't see the breaks in the vinyl, and the more intimately you know the track the less of a disadvantage that is. And if you're going to choose anything other than vinyl, why go with cd? Cd's have the disadvantages of mp3s (can't see the vinyl grooves) and the disadvantages of records (have to cart around all the physical media). If anyone's curious about mixing mp3's just at home for fun, check out this awesome software which has really advanced auto-beatmatching capabilities.

the great analog lie...

[MemeRot]

99% of people who spout off "Analog is better" have no idea that before their vinyl is pressed it is first digitally mastered, removing any of the benefits of true analog sound, while leaving the disadvantages of an analog playback media (playing the record actually degrades its sound quality).

AtomixMP3

[MemeRot]

I'm not sure what you mean. You can already see the waveforms in AtomixMP3. I vaguely remember the version 1 begin kinda lame, but version 2 rocks.

Re:AtomixMP3

[steppin_razor_LA]

You can see the waveforms of the next x seconds of music that will be played -- what some of the DJs were talking about is that they want to be able to see the waveform of the entire track so that they can cue into it immeediately...

john acquaviva...

[MemeRot]

john and ritchie, but yes, same stuff

1998?

[MemeRot]

The idea of vibrating knives/swords/etc. has been a mainstay in space opera style sci-fi for decades. I think making the jump from a vibro-knife to a vibro-razor is very easy, and probably occured to many people independently.

BWAHAHA HAHAHA

[MemeRot]

From the site: "Your thoughtful gift of this Vibrating Razor will be live forever in the hearts of those you love."

time cube

[MemeRot]

That's a really interesting question.

Obviously, this guy has mastered the time cube, and is scratching forward in time.

ah

[MemeRot]

This might cause some problems if presented in the same format as the 'next n seconds' waveform. The waveform as a straight line is realllllllly long. All the grooves on the vinyl really are is the waveform of the music, and they take up a 12" spiral. But I guess the waveform could be compressed to a fairly high degree, that would actually make it easer to spot the breaks. I guess the natural thing to do would be to compress it to fit in with the time marker, so that rather than just being a progress bar, it could show you the map of the song. Hmm.... that's a pretty good idea, and would certainly make the program more appealing to anyone with only one sound card.

Have you ever tried using Mixmeister?...

[steppin_razor_LA]

They show you a mono waveform (the zoom level is of course dependent on your choices) that I've found to be fairly useful for making some educated guesses about where to mix in a track.

Acid drives me crazy because it insists on drawing the stereo waveform which just doesn't give me the same visual feedback.. I wish there was a way (or I knew how) to get it to display in mono...