KDE 3.1 Alpha1 is Here

navindra writes: "A brand new alpha of the breath-taking KDE 3.1 development branch has been announced. This release sports everything from wonderful new eye candy to tons of popular new features including new and exciting "easter eggs" (aka bugs) just waiting to be discovered. Remember, this is not a stable release -- those of you concerned with stability should use KDE 3.0.2, whereas those of you who want to help KDE 3.1 be the best KDE ever should use this alpha. Kudos to Dre for writing the announcement and to the tireless Dirk Mueller for coordinating this release. Party!" On a related note, pAlpha writes: "Over the past years a large amount of myths has built up around KDE. Recently Aaron J. Seigo released a page about the KDE myths and facts." Good for convincing the boss.

Comments

Maybe but I doubt it

[sheepab]

Can they improve upon the best? Honestly....can they?

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[sheepab]

I think the moderators took that wrong, or I posted it wrong, what I MEANT was that KDE 3.0 already kicks major ass, and here we are with 3.1 I just dont see how the best can get better.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

I just dont see how the best can get better.

At this point, at least for the 3.x series, it's mostly 'tweaks' for improved useability, more standards compliance, and so on.

I update my copies of the current KDE CVS a few times per week, though I only occasionally compile and install from there (once every few weeks). I just like to watch what's being updated.

Last few times I updated the core KDELIBS CVS, for example, I noticed more updates to the html and ecma/javascript code. KMail has had a lot of individual updates...you get the idea. I can't honestly say I know how SUBSTANTIAL the changes have been, but I can at least spot when a section that I use frequently has had updates. so that if I get curious or run into problems in that area (something that hasn't happened to me in some time) I know to try an update...

I notice a bunch of the less "core" utilities (e.g. K3B, the video transcoding utility) have been moved from the core libraries to a new area ("KDEEXTRAGEAR", if I remember correctly). I need to check out that module too, now...

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[josh crawley]

"I think the moderators took that wrong,"

Don't fret. The editors (for the most part) are morons.

"or I posted it wrong, what I MEANT was that KDE 3.0 already kicks major ass, and here we are with 3.1 I just dont see how the best can get better."

It graphically rocks. However, it also sucks balls. All these people that says that X-WIndows is sucky and such.... Well, window managers like this are your problem. KDE uses non-standard messages to the X-server and therefore slows down overall performance. Look at TWM. With basic apps, it's tremendously fast, even on a 233 p2. YOu could add in gtk+ and still have it snappy.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[13Echo]

I use KDE 3.1 at home on my Slack 8.1 box... I must say that it is the best GUI that I have ever used. I would have never expected it to become so nice. Not only is it pretty (very), but it is fast and full of features and configurability. I don't intend to do any major updates to my box, but it looks like I can expect some excellent new features and imporvements next year.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[13Echo]

I meant to say that I use 3.01, not 3.1.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[jonathan_ingram]

on a vanilla Red Hat 7.3 install

There's your problem. Red Hat does everything they can to *not* support KDE on their distro. Use one which works better.

I ran KDE on RedHat and Mandrake for years. Recently, I moved to Debian, and what is nominally the same release of KDE runs at literally twice the speed.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[HeUnique]

lets take it point by point:

* I don't see it getting crashed. If you can compile KDE 3.1 alpha - please do, and report crashes to bugs.kde.org
* try to run your app with artsdsp: artsdsp xmms
* you can compile kdebinding and switch from KHTML to KMOZILLA on the same window - it's in the "View" menu on Konqueror
* if you want to look like XP - please give more details.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[Karn]

Yeah, everyone knows how much Redhat hates KDE.

*sigh*

I just love conspiracy theorists.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[Provocateur]

Okay Okay I took a look at the drop shadow screenshot, and they still have that ONE last annoying feature that prevents me from switching:
the dotted line at the end of the menus. Honestly, we don't need it. Get rid of it.
Everything else in KDE looks so well put together (could give Aqua some seeerious competition) but aesthetically speaking, the end dash somehow always appears to be abruptly cut off.
ANd honestly I think Linux users in general know where their menus are supposed to end :-)

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[ThatComputerGuy]

Actually, xmms comes with an Arts output plugin. Has for a while. Works great.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[rseuhs]

The "dotted line" is a button to tear off the menu, one of the best features.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[CameronGary]

Sweet! Thanks so much. RealPlayer can play sounds now . . . That had stopped working when I switched to the I810_audio driver for my onboard sound.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[kubrick]

Decrease memory usage. Speed it up.

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[Provocateur]

My bad...I guess I was looking for 'Dotted line' in KDE's Control Center

Re:Maybe but I doubt it

[Jungle guy]

I would love to have an easier way to install new fonts in KDE.

It would also be sweet to have a bettr integration with Mozilla, in a a way that, once a font is OK in KDE, it would also be installed for Mozilla.

A bit of code optimization, to make the desktop faster and more stable, would also be great.

I would just......

[Kwikymart]

I would just like to thank /. for their amazing ability to link to pages with high resolution images knowing fully that the hosting server will be slashdotted in a number of seconds.

Re:I would just......

[scott1853]

How about a new /. feature that only provides links for people that are logged in and have posted at least one message in the last week.

Of course the screen shot is only of some new drop shadow support for menus. It's kinda funny that so many geeks are trying desperately to view a darkened border of a couple pixels around a menu.

Re:I would just......

[navindra]

It works, just have to be patient. Bumped MaxClients up to 400 but doubt that'll be enough. Whee!

Re:I would just......

[pjt48108]

Why not a cache server for linked sites?

Re:I would just......

[Steve Franklin]

Offtopic? Maybe. But certainly germane. The pictures *are* pretty, though. Makes me want to try Gnulix again, almost. I keep forgetting all the damned headaches. Pie in the sky in my opinion. The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You get my drift.

Go moderate yourself.

Re:I would just......

[ichimunki]

Asked and answered. Can we have less of the metaSlashdot discussions please? :)

KDE keeps getting better

[cxvx]

I've been using the cvs version ever since I heard that konqueror supported tabbed browsing :)
Now I'm no longer using mozilla, since it doesn't start quite as fast as konqueror and the tabs where the only thing better about it (that and the antialiased fonts in konqueror look much better).

There are lots of (small) improvements in the kde code that make the whole environment a real joy to use.
Kde 3.1 is a great thing to look forward for.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[1010011010]

Konq does look better than Mozilla. The version of Konq in KDE 3.0 is slooow, though. Slower than Mozilla. I have an Athlon 600, 256MB of RAM. Amazingly, Mozilla opens new windows faster than Konq, and seems to use less memory. I remember when the opposite was true.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[Ambassador Kosh]

Hmm that seems very strange. I have kde 3.x configured on a fair number of boxes and I have found konqueror to be faster to start then mozilla and open new windows by a lot. One of the boxes is running kde 3.0.2 on debian sid with a k6-2 350 and 384M of ram. On another box I have a athlon xp1800+ with 1G of ram and konqueror is way faster then mozilla. It starts in 1s and new windows open with no delays.

When I have checked memory usage I have also found that mozilla uses more memory then konqueror does What I wonder about is that if the packages you are using have not been made very well.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[cxvx]

Never noticed similar problems.

But maybe I'm not the right person to judge performance since my main box is a dual athlon 1800 with 512mb ram :).

But even on my laptop(PIII 600/192MB, slow HD) konqueror loads in a second.
I find KDE3 performing a lot better then 2.2. It could be a distro thing however. I switched from mandrake to gentoo and since then everything seems much faster.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[Hassan79]

It's the dynamic linking of C++ applications on Linux that makes KDE so slow. Here is a discussion and some links about it.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[cxvx]

I know, but the binutils 2.12 solves part of the linking problem by prelinking.

Just today, the objprelink programmer, Leon Bottou, posted on the kde-dev mailinglist, stating that the objprelink option is no longer necessary. When using the newest glibc, binutils and gcc, you already get large speedups.

You can find more info on objprelink here.

Re:KDE keeps getting better

[42forty-two42]

I agree. I currently use kde 3.0.2, but as soon as the final version comes out I'll emerge it in.

Mmmm...

[Skyshadow]

Mmmm... Eye candy and easter eggs...

(drools)

not to be a wet blanket, but...

[krog]

...is Slashdot the place for alpha announcements?

i'm sure there are plenty of KDE fans here and all, but this isn't even beta yet. if Slashdot announced every alpha release of every decent-sized Open Source project... Oh wait, they do.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[ArsonSmith]

yes.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Soko]

Ummm... Hi there.

You do realise that /. is frequented by folks who know what "it's an Alpha version" means, yet will still download and try it? Ya, them "geek" types.

There's a lot of these folks here, too. This translates to lots of knowlegeable, quailty testers for the KDE team. Quality testers == a quality product for the rest of us. Knowlegeable testers == help for the KDE people in fixing bugs. /. therefore does the community a service when they announce new developments on major OSS projects, by pointing the right eyes to the source code.

BTW, I think it's cool that the only major browser without tabs after KDE3.1 is released will be IE. The Galeon folks should be proud.

Soko

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[josh crawley]

"You do realise that /. is frequented by folks who know what "it's an Alpha version" means, yet will still download and try it? Ya, them "geek" types."

Then please explain why (before Slashdot was commercialized) that the _public weblogs_ said that roughly 90% of the users was viewing slashdot through WIn(X ver) on IE ?

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[krog]

You do realise that /. is frequented by folks who know what "it's an Alpha version" means, yet will still download and try it? Ya, them "geek" types.

for every one of those, there's five who don't know their ass from their elbow.

or, to put it less flamaciously, the geeks who knows and care what an alpha release is should check NewsForge for announcements like this. NewsForge is a generally higher-level forum for this sort of thing.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Galeon folks should be proud.

Somewhere in Norway a man is crying.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[HeUnique]

From my experience - I had installed Red Hat 7.3 with KDE 3.0 and I used it, but I missed the tabbed browsing (I open about 16 tabs on Konqueror on avrage) so I compiled KDE 3.1 Alpha and I'm using it already for about a week.

My impression so far - stable as a rock already! I removed my old KDE 3.0 RPMS and getting all my stuff with KDE 3.1 alpha - and it works! didn't see any crashes so far..

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

BTW, I think it's cool that the only major browser without tabs after KDE3.1 is released will be IE. The Galeon folks should be proud.

IE itself does not provide tabs, but if you want them (and a popup filter) for IE check out the Crazy Browser.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

Then please explain why (before Slashdot was commercialized) that the _public weblogs_ said that roughly 90% of the users was viewing slashdot through WIn(X ver) on IE ?

I am one of those (IE 6 on XP), and though I don't use Linux, I enjoy reading about improvements of KDE (including Alpha Releases).

I'd like to use Open Source everywhere, yet there are still too many things that I can use under Windows only. Plus, I don't think Linux is ready for the desktop. It will never be. Otherwise it wouldn't be Linux anymore. To make a good Open Source operating system for the masses, everything you will include into this operating system (distribution) would have to developed after common standards - it has to look and feel like ONE product. And that's just impossible with Linux as we know it today. But I don't think any Linux zealot will admit that. Right?

Yet, after all, I think Linux (the kernel) and KDE are both technically great products. And I love to see what people can create if they only want to.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Breakfast Pants]

I can't explain away everything but.. consider that many view slashdot from work.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[mandolin]

is Slashdot the place for alpha announcements? (...) if Slashdot announced every alpha release of every decent-sized Open Source project.. Oh wait they do.

Not to be glib, but I believe you just answered your own question.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[fferreres]

Desktop = Windows?? With that definition of course you'll reach the conclusion (which is the premise anyway)....

Also, under Linux most things are developed after common standards unlike Windows, which are propietary non-standards.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Darby]

I'd like to use Open Source everywhere, yet there are still too many things that I can use under Windows only.

Not arguing with you, not flaming, just curious:
Besides games, like what?

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Soko]

I haven't used Opera in a while, but IIRC it had an MDI interface, not true tabs.

Apologies if I was mistaken.

Soko

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[andrewscraig]

For me it is mostly Internet Explorer that I need due to poor standards - for example, I need to log into NTLM authenticated websites, which mozilla & konq just blow a gasket at, and our time management program uses some extensive ActiveX components so that non IE browsers get a blank screen (if I force the browser string to emulate IE).

This is why VMWare is good!!

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Beetjebrak]

How about decent graphics packages and page layout tools? Don't give me the lowdown about latex or Gimp. I know.. but Gimp is a far cry from what Photoshop 6 is, and using Quark XPress, Illustrator or InDesign gives me MUCH more flexibility and standards-compliance (mind you, by standards I mean I can create files that printers and service bureaus can actually work with). The very moment Adobe decides to port Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign over to FreeBSD (even closed source, I don't care) I'll dump my Win2K partitions straight away. Until then Linux/BSD just don't cut it for me yet, that's why I still dual boot between Win2K and FreeBSD 4.6 these days. FreeBSD+KDE3 is my desktop of choice, but for my job as a graphics designer I boot into windows. Apple's hardware is just too expensive, and I've given up hope for OS-X on x86. Maybe someday Wine will be so good that the aforementioned apps will run without a hitch, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

I work for a web company and besides having to program in PHP I also have to design here and there. To test these things IE is a must have, because most people will use IE to view the site.

In most other cases the reason for not "being able" to switch are tools I got used to, like Windows Commander, Programmer's File Editor, Corel Photo Paint and some other things.

I installed Linux several times (several versions and distributions of course) just to see how far it has come. Once I tried to get the extra buttons on my Logitech keyboard to work. No chance. There seemed to be some hacks out there according to Google, but nothing simple. And that's a big problem, because those keys really increase my productivity. I miss them every time when I use different computer.

And you find that in other areas of Linux as well. Of course there are editors, file managers, browsers and so on. But most of them (at least the easy-to-use-ones) are not available for Windows, so if I try to switch, I have to learn ALL of them from scratch because my favourite Windoze apps are not available for Linux. Last time I checked there was a Windows Commander clone. But like many things in Linux it seemed to be a project that somebody started 3 weeks ago - not a full blown product with all the little details that make it rock.

I hate the feeling of not knowing how to do the simplest things - like setting an environment variable so that it remains set when I reboot - though almost nobody I know comes close to my knowledge of and experience with computers - I'm talking about people in RL, of course.

So when I use Windows, I am the master, I control the system. When I use Linux, I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Lots of cool things here and there but I don't relly know how to use them the best way.

Currently I lack the time of getting used to Linux to use it efficiently.

But I think porting KDE to Windows would help a bit. Then I can get the Linux desktop experience on Windows. When I get to a point were I need to do something NOW and not after I read a really long HOWTO or something, I can easily use the techniques I know under Windows and learn the Linux way later. Or not. Who cares ;)

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

Which common standards are you talking about?

The standards KDE apps follow?
The standards Gnome apps follow?
The common standards that should make them use the same clipboard?
The common standards that should allow to define a set of icons you want to have on your desktop and when you switch from KDE to Gnome, they are still there?
The common standards that make them use the same start menu?
The common standards that make it so simple to write a configuration program that can be used with every distro - after all they are all called Linux, so what?
The common standards that allow having to configure one aspect of the system at a single place instead of two or three (what was it, fonts?).
The common standards that allow setting a "default browser" in one single central place? Did I miss anything?

Linux distributions are no operating systems like Windows is. Linux is the kernel and a bunch of applications that different people developed for different reasons in different ways with different aims. Windows is explorer, registry, dial up network, system control panel, etc. plus apps that use them somehow. Common standards!!!

I don't want to say that Microsoft did those things the best way - far from it. But Linux does not even have something like this. There is no central unit. KDE brings a bit of this feeling back, but there are too many important Linux apps that were not developed for KDE. Now read the paragraph again with s/KDE/Gnome/g;

Complete decentralization is cool for P2P but it's the worst thing you can do with operating systems IMHO.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[ebm_kid]

You are actually joking aboyut this aren't you ? Really... Please say you are.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[fferreres]

The standards KDE apps follow?

KDE Standards.

The standards Gnome apps follow?

KDE Standards.

The common standards that should make them use the same clipboard?

Being discussed already I think

The common standards that should allow to define a set of icons you want to have on your desktop and when you switch from KDE to Gnome, they are still there?

Use one or the other! They are NOT complementary. Same as with Windows, OSX, OS/2 and every DE

The common standards that make them use the same start menu?

Use one or the other! They are NOT complementary. Same as with Windows, OSX, OS/2 and every DE

The common standards that make it so simple to write a configuration program that can be used with every distro - after all they are all called Linux, so what?

Valid point :) (though beign addressed)

The common standards that allow having to configure one aspect of the system at a single place instead of two or three (what was it, fonts?).

Well, mostly everything is configured at one place, the diversity comes mostlyfrom frontends (except when using different stuff like lpd or CUPS)

The common standards that allow setting a "default browser" in one single central place? Did I miss anything?

It's already there for Gnome and KDE!

Your complaint seem to be more that there are multiple possibilities or too much variants of everything to have standarized products. The point is valid! But that does not mean Linux is crap.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

Your complaint seem to be more that there are multiple possibilities or too much variants of everything to have standarized products. The point is valid! But that does not mean Linux is crap.

I never said so. Linux stands for lots of cool techniques, choices over choices and so on. It's the coolest playground for programmers on earth. With playground being a universe that allows the programmer to be god because he could change really anything.

Unfortunately this also means that Linux is chaos. No sandbox looks tidy, right? Linux is a huge sandbox where you can play as much as you want.

Linux rocks for developers, but end users will always feel a bit helpless, if they want a clean system (which I guess they want). It's like a child's room of the size of 1000 m and you are the one who has to tidy it. You wouldn't even want to make a list of the stuff in there unless you go into the room because of the stuff in there. The typical Windows user that wants to get work done in the first place does not want to explore the complete room to know how he can do his stuff the best way. He's fine with dictated solutions, as long as they more or less work for him.

Making an Open Source Operating System for the masses could use Linux (the kernel) as the bases and probably some KDE stuff, too (like KParts), but the applications of it have to be developed after new common standards so that the programs integrate much better. You can reuse the core of many existing programs, I think, but all the front end stuff and the interfaces (at API level) will have to be changed to make this possible. This is a lot of work. And it's not what's going on in Linux today, because that's not what Linux is about. That's okay, but then don't expect Linux to become mainstream ever.

Linux is Linux and it should stay that way (because this is freedom). An OS-OS should be a seperate project IMHO (because there you want control, which is managed freedom if it's done right).

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

And it's not KDE 3. It's like wearing second hand, it just does not feel as good. And Windows users will turn away from KDE if you show them a KDE without all the eye candy and speed that KDE 3 seems to have (have not tried it - yet)

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[fferreres]

Linux is choice. Once you have _chosen_, then it can be anything you had wanted it to be (depending on previous choices).

For a company making a software app. it can be a trouble (for support especially) since many people can run different stuff.

But from a users perspective well, you can have a decent grass playground with NO sand whatsoever. Granted, you'll have to tidy it yourself once you screw it :)

I don't me to contradict you, but the problem is i am very tidy, and have chosen a lot (meaning have to discard a lot so to keep the thing "windows wise" consistent).

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

To me Linux feels untidy right out of the box. There is a system after which the things are done, but the system itself is... not what I would do. It starts with the directory structure. It is not intuitive where you will find a certain binary - /bin? /usr/bin? /usr/local/bin? /sbin? /usr/sbin? /usr/local/sbin? And so on. After a while you begin to understand that sbin is for the super user. But why do I find the user data in /home and not in /usr? It seems weird right from the start. But changing only this aspect will cause a really big amount of problems.

It already sucks that you have to set a shebang line with an absolute path in most cases. If that script is used on your PC (maybe it runs under Windows, so you might have to use #!c:/Progra...) and on several websites on several servers, you have to edit this line for several servers. At least if they don't use /usr/bin/perl.

In this regard, even the windows file extension approach is good (it knows that .pl has to be opened with perl.exe in dir X).

Nevertheless I understand that the shebang line has other advantages.

But Linux is a bit to much chaos for me. This is why every Linux guru really impresses me. I'm not willing to explore this mess to finally find the advantages over Windows (and Linux surely has them) though I consider myself a geek. But probably this is why I read /. though all my friends lough at me ;)

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[fferreres]

It is caos. Unless you don't want to selfmaintain the system (and just use redcarpet, rpm2date or the suse updater).

So yes, the directory structure is a mess (completelly agree). I'd love to see everything moved to /system, except for the /home dir.

It's complicated (too much legacy). But the user doesn't need to see/understand all that mess. At least, that's how I think! Only his home dir is relevant.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

['The '.$L3mm1ng]

Which is filled by varios .anything files and directories. This is as annoying as Windows Apps creating their own files and folders in "My Documents" - the way they do it is just not how I like it (and differs from app to app). That's why I store "My Documents" somewhere else which is easier under Windows than it is under Linux because of the drive letters. No, that's not a good invention either. Man, that's weird...

Hiding away the chaos by front ends just does not feel right IMHO. Sometimes you have to make a cut und rebuild everything based on the experience you have. That's evolution. Linux is a dinosaur ;) He can try as hard as he wants, but cleaning the house won't be possible for him. Sorry. He's not designed for it. But he has other valuable qualities.

The problem with hiding the chaos is that you have to hide anything then. I don't think that's a fun job, and in a recent /. article about OS developers we saw that this is a motivation killer. The result is holes. Sometimes there is no other way to do stuff, important stuff, than to dive into the chaos and edit a strange configuration file or something. At this point you need to tell the user the truth. "Yes. Linux is a mess. Yes, you have to use the command line to do that, I'm sorry. Use the pipe sign. Yes, use Alt Gr + the key with the arrow brackets on them. No, not that one. Use chmod 755. Yes, C, H, M, O, D..."
Not to *bash* the command line. Haha ;)

Hiding the chaos is easier than starting from scratch, this is right. The typical Linux user is fine with that chaos because he got used to it, so it does not stand in his way. But for newbies the learning curve is too big and I don't think that KDE can cover all holes. So chances look bad for Linux on the Mainstream Desktop, I think.

Yet I think there must be a way to build an operating system in a way that both allows complete control for the gurus and easy and consistent configurability and usability for the average Joe. But, again, if this was Linux, it would be Linux the kernel plus a bunch of stuff developed after one standard (or what is the correct expression? Develop according to a standard? I'm not sure). Not Linux as we know it today.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[fferreres]

I don't think I agree with everything you said. For example, you can't hide the fact that permissions per users, and having different users do different stuff are usefull (and complex). You may not need it yet, but you will at some point. Everything in your home dir is your, so mama shouldn't know. But if they want to delete /sbin, they will find out they can't and that's good.

I mean, you can use Lindows, but I don't think it's usefull. For he 2.6 or 2.8 kernel they will be trying to finegrain the "root" user concept. So you don't always need to be root for lot of stuff.

Regarding the .whatever files, I preffer that system than to hide everything in the Registry or in GConf. Why? Because I can really backup my users data and config, and if want, i can take a look at what's there. Maybe everything could have been placed under a ~/.config/ so as to not mess the home dir.

As for the frontend stuff, it pretty much depends on ho the frontend is done. If the core part is not really meant to be frontended you can have a problem. Core app should take into account that they may need to be frontended. I mean, it would be close to have an interface to EVERY program. Where ONE frontend would be a command line utility and there could be other frontends (differet commandline, a KDE GUI, a GTK GUI, a Gnome gui). That alone would be a great adition.

There are some apps that deal with this sucessfully. For example Xine has completely separated the GUI stuff from the core program, and you have a lot of "quality" frontends.

Re:not to be a wet blanket, but...

[Beetjebrak]

I've used this, and I don't like it. I pitted Photoshop (then at version 3.0) against PhotoPaint (then at version 5) and was horribly disgusted at the clumsiness with which Photopaint worked. Mind you, I was actually using Photopaint before I ever got a copy of Photoshop to play with so I wasn't biased towards Adobe. They just had a MUCH better product there and then. Nowadays Photoshop 6 fills all my needs, and I haven't checked back on photopaint since version 7 which I then compared to photoshop 4.0 if I'm not mistaken, but IMHO it still sucks eggs compared to Adobe's offering. Colour is important to me, I send it to professional presses not just desktop inkjets and photopaint (ver. 7 at least, I realize we're at 10 or something like that nowadays) just doesn't cut it. Transparency is also something Photoshop shines at.. I for one prefer Adobe's offerings above anything else I've seen on the market for the past 10 years. This 'market' being mostly the warez-scene for me back then.. I was 14.. but it doesn't make any difference now that I'm running a business and using the latest Photoshop legally. The Adobe products aren't overpriced if you buy them as part of a 'Collection', which I did for two PC's. Such a collection offers 4 grade-A applications for the price of a single one bought separately. Upgrades are dirt-cheap. I'd NEVER buy a Corel graphics product again after the horrible piece of crap called Corel7 (the whole package). Also, try submitting a .CDR to a service bureau. Some will accept it, but most will have problems with it. I'd rather submit .ai or .eps (which CorelDraw has always had trouble creating properly). I have deadlines to meet, and that makes me choose Adobe products. I've used the rest, like Quark, Corel, Aldus (back when they owned PageMaker ver. 5) and Ventura.. they're just not as good.In my spare time I immediately boot to FreeBSD and enjoy a real OS, but that's just a hobby. I don't seriously use it on my desktop for anything other than mail, news and irc. All my servers run it 24/7 and have been up for over 84 days now since the last power dip, I love BSD on servers, but that's a whole different story. I can only hope and dream that one day my money-making apps will be ported to at least Linux so I can run them on FreeBSD in emulation and finally be rid of M$ since I refuse to buy Apple's hardware at their ridiculous price.

Myths About KDE

[LordYUK]

"Over the past years a large amount of myths has built up around KDE..."
Number one of which is: KDE does NOT stand for "Killer Dog Eaters"
:P

Re:Myths About KDE

[krmt]

I'm pretty sure that it originally stood for Kool Desktop Environment. I think now the official position is that the K doesn't stand for anything, but I think that they're just covering up the dumb idea to deliberately misspell cool :-)

I've also read that they chose K because it was the first letter after L, for Linux. I believe the former more than the latter though.

Re:Myths About KDE

[reverius]

Umm... K is the first letter before L. Not to nitpick or anything.

Otherwise it'd be the M Desktop Environment. Which would actually be pretty cool... Somebody should start that project :P

Re:Myths About KDE

[Gorak]

I've also read that they chose K because it was the first letter after L, for Linux...

Uh, perhaps in your alphabet it is...

Re:Myths About KDE

[krmt]

You're right. My mistake, but the idea is still there, whether or not you believe it.

Re:Myths About KDE

[Dimensio]

I for some reason thought it was "Kommon Desktop Environment" (what with the use of "k" in front of everything and using it in place of "c" or "q"). Perhaps it means KDE Desktop Environment, because we could always use more recursive acronyms (presumably it would be pronounced "de", as the "k" is silent).

Re:Myths About KDE

[Oestergaard]

KDE stands for:
(The) Kalle Dalheimer Experience ;)

(See http://www.kde.org/people/kalle.html)

Re:Myths About KDE

[imta11]

In my alphabet K is before L.

sorry...

Re:Myths About KDE

[zdzichu]

I head that at the beggining they tried to reassemble CDE - desktop environment popular on unix workstations.

Re:Myths About KDE

[Steve Franklin]

Whoever modded this down to a 0 is a moron of the first water. This is the ONLY reply that actually answers the question accurately! Who's watching the moderators, anyway? What, are these guys rejects from the police academy?

Re:Myths About KDE

[Kyeo]

Nobody modded it. AC's post at 0.

Re:Myths About KDE

[EggplantMan]

I think you mean the first letter before L.

Re:Myths About KDE

[lmfr]

There is a CDE that may have caused some confusion.

Re:Myths About KDE

[HydroCarbon10]

Unfortunately, they polluted everyone's thinking and now people insist on naming their KDE software with Ks. Of course, if someone writes something it's their right to name it Stinky Dog Poop if they want. In fact, that might be preferable to the "K" thing. I've seriously thought of writing a script that will tr/[kK]/[cC]/ the name of every program and every reference to those programs.

Maybe I'm just need mental help.

Re:Myths About KDE

[droberge]

I remeber someone saying once that they stopped talking about the 'Kool Desktop Environment' after a couple of nastygrams from lawyers representing the makers of Kool cigarettes.

But yes, the original annoucement said that the K stood for 'Kool'

Re:Myths About KDE

[aCC]

See the announcement here

Re:Myths About KDE

[Bartmoss]

I always thought it was a pun on "CDE".

Re:Myths About KDE

[glitchvern]

I remember the 1.x versions looked very much like cde (common desktop environment) which was frequently used on commercial unices at the time and still is I believe. Xfce is a window manager that looks like cde now you can check it out if you want to see what cde looks like. Once it hit 2.x it started looking like windows.

Re:Myths About KDE

[Dimensio]

I knoe CDE, it's used at the university I attend. I prefer KDE...or actually just about anything to it :)

Re:Myths About KDE

[Steve Franklin]

Gee, I don't seem to be eligible. Maybe if I can get some crony to moderate a one-line quip into a +5 (funny) 8 or 10 times I can meta-moderate. Am I the only one here who sees this con?

Re:Myths About KDE

[HydroCarbon10]

Great, except for that fact that I spend 90% of my time in Linux doing development.

clip board popup

[dciman]

Anyone else get violently upset witht he clipboard program in KDE. Who was the person who though it to be a good idea for that little option bar to popup when I selected an internat address?? So that everytime I select all in the url box of my web browser it comes up, takes focus away from the app I am using and asks when I want to do..... I KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DO!!!! ;-) There is most likely a way to alter its behavior... but I thought it was a silly thing to have by default. But what do I care?? I use Blackbox anyhow!

Re:clip board popup

[Anonymous Coward]

Right click on the clipboard icon and uncheck "Enable Actions"

Re:clip board popup

[Satai]

The Klipboard manager (Klippy? I can't remember) is quite configurable... I got irritated with it doing that every tiem I was in Mozilla (very rarely, mind you) and looked around - there's a section of the configuration where you can define different window classes for it to ignore. I did that, and haven't been happier...

Re:clip board popup

[Joe Tie.]

I thought that was kind of weird too. I know it can be disabled and everything, but it does seem odd to have it in by default. I didn't even mind the url popup so much as having it just sometimes pop up when I'm typing normal words.

Re:clip board popup

[theLOUDroom]

I agree.
This should be turned off by default.
It annoys the crap out of me, and now that I know I can be turned off, I will do so. Maybe they should just add a counter. If it steals the focus away from you 25 times and haven't used any of the selections that pop-up once, it should autmatically turn itself off (unless you actually manually enabled it).
Hmmmm...maybe I'll write the code to do that... If it got included in the release, it would save a lot of people a little bit of annoyance.
Anyone else think this would be a good idea?

Re:clip board popup

[SecretMethod70]

I wholeheartedly agree with your stance. The popup constantly interferes with what I am doing. I've gotten to the point where I just kill klipper.

Re:clip board popup

[Ashtangi]

That sounds like the annoying kind of behaviour that makes Windows so awkward to use. Why on earth do developers have to be so egotistical that they shove their wiz-bang gadgetry in your face by default? Of course I do this myself, but my users probably love it. If I am working in a window, the only way that window should lose focus is if I directly "tell" it to. Windows violates this premise all of the time. My older unix machines never did . . . Are the KDE developers perhaps looking to closely at the competition?

Re:clip board popup

[matvei]

You can configure it so that it doesn't show popup actions for certain applications. By default these include mozilla, konqueror and a few others (at least that's how it's on my Debian box).

And besides, this is just a matter of taste. I for instance just love Klipper. It's just so much more convinient to higlight an URL someone pasted to IRC and have it opened immediately, instead of manually opening a browser, deleting the contents of the url bar and then pasting the URL there. But then again I'm a lazy bastard ;-)

Re:clip board popup

[Anonymous Coward]

The developer's dilemma .... it's been rehashed on a bunch of lists (KDE included) many times .... do you enable all the cool stuff (at least in the first release it's there) so that people can learn about it and start using it, or do you disable it by default and run the risk that 90% of the people who would be helped by it never find out that it exists.
It's a delicate balance and probably has to be figured out feature by feature - I found the clippy thig so annoying it got turned off right away - some people might find it usefull and want it left on - I suspect it's on the border-line.
With something like this it may make sense to enable it by default for a couple of releases so that enough people know it's there if they need it then disable it by default

Re:clip board popup

[Ambassador Kosh]

Actually I really like this feature and use it fairly often. I can just select a url and almost instantly that will popup and then I can tell it to open that url in konqueror and almost instantly that will open up also. I am running kde 3.0.2 on debian sid. I do web work and I find that almost anytime I select a url I actually want to open in a web browser.

Re:clip board popup

[Ambassador Kosh]

I have kde 3.0.2 and if I select a url in the url box in mozilla 1.0 and konqueror 3.0.2 I can not reproduce that. Maybe that is a bug that has been fixed.

Re:clip board popup

[beatbox]

I think good (default or not) behavior would be:

when I select a url, open this little option-bar out of the way, but keep focus in the window I was working in, and if I don't use the little option-bar within a configurable number of seconds (5?) then close it. Then it would be there if you wanted it, and it wouldn't get in your way if you don't.

Bam.

Re:clip board popup

[platypus]

I don't know if you're a developer, but maybe it's an idea which hasn't been discussed.
The developer's dilemma .... it's been rehashed on a bunch of lists (KDE included) many times .... do you enable all the cool stuff (at least in the first release it's there) so that people can learn about it and start using it, or do you disable it by default and run the risk that 90% of the people who would be helped by it never find out that it exists.

Take a look at open office. When I first started the (beta) version of OO and wrote something just for getting the feel of it, it suddenly capitalized the first word I typed.
At the same time, a light bulb was shown down right on the screen.

"Arrgh,", I thought, "so the adapted the annoying everytime-I-have-to-search-half-an-hour-to-disable -that shit autocorrect functions of word and the same kind of annoying assistant stuff"

Wrong. When I klicked on the bulb, a help page was shown to explain what just happend (auto-correcting) and what it is. It also asked me if I wanted to use that in the future or not, and showed where to configure it at a later time.

That's great! Show all features on first use, but also explain them and make it easy to disable them right after the first occurance.

Alpha menus & drop shadows

[Eagle7]

I looked at the screenshots, and the transparent menus and the drop shadows on the menu look really nice. I'm curious - are these KDE application things? Are they part of the windows manager that comes with KDE? Are they QT? And will they work over everything, or will they only work when QT menus are displayed over QT aps?

Just wondering if it is possible to have such nifty eyecandy work with my 95% GTK+/Sawfish environment, or if I would have to switch to the KDE environment to see this features.

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[JabberWokky]

Yes, in other words it is bullshit fakery

Um. Pardon me, but how else are you supposed to render translucent objects? You always have to calculate the final result somewhere. If you have a card and driver combo that supports it in hardware via XRENDER, it does it there. If you don't, it emulates it in software (you can force it one way or the other via the Control Center). Other than hardware or software, where else is it supposed to be rendered? By amish stained glass sculptors sitting on a three legged stool next to your monitor?

--
Evan "Ya, Mister Godwin, that looks good. I'll have the next menu ready for you in about three hours, sure enough".

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[Paladin128]

You have to have all the KDE Libs installed, but you do not have to be running KDE to take advantage of the eye candy. You will have to configure it with the KDE controll panel, but you can keep on using whatever other environment you wish.

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[Damek]

On a slightly unrelated note, I just hope the rewrite it when XFree86 finally supports alpha blending. When alpha blending is a part of X, presumably transparency, shadows, etc. will be faster, easier, and no hacks will be required.

Presumably...

If it happens...

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[JabberWokky]

What happens if the underneath changes when the menu is up?

It changes. You can put a movie underneath it and watch the movie through the menu. Well... assuming your video driver supports it. The fact that there are no available video drivers that support this feature is due to the newness of this capability in X.

bullshit fakery being passed off as the real thing - the KDE project in a nutshell.

Hang onto your copy of KDE 3.1. When the driver for your videocard supports the new extension, watch a nice DivX and pop a menu over it. Maybe you'll understand the concept of a new API definition requiring the upgrade of existing drivers.

It's a bit like if Doom III comes out running on OpenGL 2, and your video card only supports OpenGL 1.x, and you run around screaming "Doom III doesn't really work. It's all bullshit fakery - Id Software in a nutshell."

--
Evan

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[tjansen]

There are reasons for the limitation: for true transparency you need update several layers for each pixel which requires a much more complex dialog between X11 server and the client. The server must send an update request to the first client, then the client will paint and send an message to the server that it is finished. Then the server goes to the next client and so on.
Right now the server just sends an redraw request to the client that owns the pixel(s) and that's it.

Re:Alpha menus & drop shadows

[FooBarWidget]

The fact that you're trolling as AC only makes you bullshit fakery.

No I don't care about your opinion.

KDE Usability

[krmt]

Aaron J Siego also started up the KDE Usability Project, in order to spearhead work on improving the KDE UI. I was following the list for quite a few weeks, until the traffic grew too substantial to keep up with. But according to the 3.1 alpha release notes, some of their intial work, including work on Kicker, is going to be included in the new release.

This is a wonderful thing. From reading the list, I know that they've painstakingly thought through the work they've done, modeled and remodeled, discussed and argued all the little details to get things as good as they could. Progress has been slow for that reason, but it is substantial, and over time I think it'll bring KDE's usability to something we can all really be proud of.

Features are nice, but I think improving the usability of KDE will help everyone in the long run.

Re:KDE Usability

[stilborne]

well, to be fair, i didn't "start up" the KDE usability project. it just wasn't very active before i and a few others descended upon it and decided to get some actual reports written and some actual coding done.

i believe jono started the project and others such as chris howells were involved early on.

the time and effort of everyone who took the initiative has resulted in more and more of the KDE developers and users (along with some new devels and usability people) getting on the list and getting involved.

it's fun to be part of something positive and intense as it unfolds ...

AJS

Re:KDE Usability

[HanzoSan]

ok so when will they use the icon animation ability of KDE to improve useability while also providing eyecandy?

Right now its useless flash put your mouse over a folder and it opens, its not useful like put a cd in your cd rom drive and hit burn and a spinning burning cd,

Re:KDE Usability

[mrroach]

For the love of God, how many times are you going to repeat your burning desire for a spinny CD?

Yes, a spinny CD would be nice. Please, somebody make this poor man a spinny CD icon so he can know when his CD is spinning. Now THAT would be a use of animation that is not pointless flash.

<to moderators: look how many times this guy is getting modded up for OT and repetetive posts>

Re:KDE Usability

[HanzoSan]

In trying to explain how usability must be improved everywhere, and how kde should focus on its exclusive features,

if you looked at my other posts also mention alpha channeling, genie effects, and motion blur, i mention how lindows and others should fund enhancements to xfree, i mentioned how after xfree is improved kde should focus on improving kdes usability not just by adding eye candy but by making it useful.

Re:KDE Usability

[krmt]

Either way, as near as I can tell, you guys jumpstarted the project, and it was a badly needed thing. I feel bad that I can't follow the mailing list any more (you guys just generate way too much traffic for me :-) but I'm glad you're all doing the work that needs to be done. It's really the next major step for KDE, and I'm really happy that you guys are working on it. Linux will make it on to more desktops, and it will be because of projects like this one.

Now if all developers really start to pay attention beforehand, things will really start to improve :-)

Installation still a chore?

[MagPulse]

I went to KDE.org, and the installation instructions for KDE 3 still start out with "First, you will need this library. Now, here's a list of packages you will be installing..." I installed Gnome a year ago with Ximian's go-gnome script, which was totally painless. Is anything like this in the works for KDE?

Re:Installation still a chore?

[ewomack]

Yes - If you are using Source Mage GNU/Linux. You simply type:

cast kde-profile

And it will go down the list of available packages, ask which ones you want then download the source and compile it.

Re:Installation still a chore?

[pivo]

I agree, I prefer KDE over GNOME (but I use both) installation is the one thing that GNOME does much better than KDE. I whish they'd make it easier to update, something on the order of RedCarpet.

Re:Installation still a chore?

[tjansen]

Yes, the project is called Kalypso. It is far from being usable though.

Re:Installation still a chore?

[chowells]

Indeed, while the frontend exists (the easy and fun bit) the backend doesn't ;)

See my web page at http://mail.kde.org/~howells/kalypso for screenshots.

** Sigh ***

[BranMan]

Unfortunately Aaron Seigo didn't make his KDE Myths a single FAQ style page but a cascading set of pages. Can someone mirror them before they are slashdotted out of creation?

Re:** Sigh ***

[navindra]

His page wasn't actually meant to be launched at this point, FWIW. KC KDE (and consequently the dot) leaked it a bit early.

Re:** Sigh ***

[stilborne]

yeah, well ... too late for that. an "all in one page" option was slated for this weekend and the official release of the site was for next week. i even stated on a public list where it was discussed that bandwidth was an issue ATM on the server it is currently sitting on. but i suppose someone just had to post it to slashdot, didn't they. *sigh*

AJS

Re:** Sigh ***

[chowells]

KC KDE is written by a number of contributors, who are free to include what they like (Aaron is one of the contributors, as is myself).

Sweet!

[friedmud]

Have been looking forward to this - thought it was going to be a while before we got it. Nice to see they are still making a lot of progress after the 3.0 release.

PS: keramik kicks a$$

Derek

Nothing original

[d3xt3r]

I know that copying is the best form of flattery, but this is getting ridiculous.

KDE 1 - 2 were attempts to copy windows UI with some small differences.

It now appears that KDE 3.1 is going for the Appple OS X Aqua look. Look at the screen shots. The task bar looks like the OS X dock and they even called it Qwertz.

I love Linux on the desktop, and I love KDE, but unless it offers something original, something that Windows and Mac OS don't, then what's the point?

Re:Nothing original

[reaper20]

I find the OSX/XP-like look not as appealing as the classic looks myself, and I do agree with you.

But, you can always change it. I do find it interesting that with the newest development of any major desktop environment, window manager, or application, one of the first things that always gets ported is an OSX/XP looking theme.

Someday, E17 will come out - and someone will do an OSX for E and Luna for E theme too. Check out the stats on theme sites, those themes are popular, so its natural that the developers would cater to the users.

I don't like them either, but at least we have a choice!

Re:Nothing original

[tomk]

You don't always have to be original. The first cars probably had 4 wheels and a steering wheel, but I'm sure that you don't mind the fact that that design was copied.

For people to switch to Linux on the desktop, it's a great advantage if the desktop looks & feels similar to what they already know. Innovation is great but so is imitation, as long as you are imitating something that works well. Whether you love or hate Windows and MacOS, they are both proven designs.

Besides, KDE does do a lot of innovative things. It just does them in addition to the things that it imitates.

-Tom

Re:Nothing original

[LMCBoy]

I love Linux on the desktop, and I love KDE, but unless it offers something original, something that Windows and Mac OS don't, then what's the point?


What's the point? Freedom, for starters. You get a first-rate GUI without sacrificing Freedom. Isn't that worth celebrating, even if the GUI is not totally "original"?

Besides, why is it necessarily desireable for a GUI to be completely original? It's been said often before, but I guess it bears repeating. Most modern GUI systems look very similar. They all use "windows", "menus", "icons", "buttons", and "desktops". Does this mean that no one can think of anything new, and it's all about "A copied B copied C copied D! Shame on A, B and C!" ? Perhaps. But it's also possible that the Desktop metaphor just makes sense and it works well. Would you rather KDE make a completely new computing paradigm, even if it meant it was harder to use? Just for the sake of being "different"?

Besides, KDE offers plenty that Win/Mac don't, besides Freedom. Themability, for one. You claim to "love" KDE, and yet it seems you don't understand that the way your desktop looks is largely up to you in KDE. You can make it look very similar to WinXP, or very similar to OSX, or not really like either. The person who took those screenshots chose to have a panel that looks like the OSX dock. Others have an XP-like panel. Mine looks like neither. KDE gives you the freedom to build a desktop that suits your needs and style. How is that copying either OSX or XP?

I guess I shouldn't even bother...there will always be naysayers. I remember when they were saying "KDE will never be as good as Windows or Mac!". Now it's "Ok, KDE is just as good as Windows/Mac...but it's not BETTER, so what's the point?!"

Indeed, what's the point?

Re:Nothing original

[HeUnique]

you wrote: "I love Linux on the desktop, and I love KDE, but unless it offers something original, something that Windows and Mac OS don't, then what's the point?"

The moment that KDE will be radically different from Mac OS & Windows - thats the moment you'll start loosing people who wants to use Linux and came from Windows world. It's pretty hard to teach a newbie an entirely new window manager and/or desktop enviroment.

Try taking a kid who used only windows and give him Window Maker. See what he tells you.

Re:Nothing original

[d3xt3r]

Try taking a kid who's only used Windows and give them a Mac.

They'll have it figured out real quick, and Macs are not "just like" Windows.

Re:Nothing original

[HeUnique]

I agree with you on this one..

However - we're talking different things here - a person who gets a Linux distribution from his friends and installs Linux + KDE to learn/experiment VS. your example - to buy a whole new machine...

Re:Nothing original

[Reality_X]

Apple stole the "Dock" from CDE/KDE in the first place. They just made it only take up 2/3 of the screen, and centered it. Wow. THEY STOLE FROM KDE!

How original can a GUI get before people say "This is too different, no way I'm using this!"...

Hey, if you have suggestions, why not email the KDE UI people?

Re:Nothing original

[DickBreath]

I know that copying is the best form of flattery, but this is getting ridiculous.

I love Linux on the desktop, and I love KDE, but unless it offers something original, something that Windows and Mac OS don't, then what's the point?

Yeah. I agree.

I bought a new Honda, and you know what, the controls had nothing original. The steering wheel, gas pedal, brake, lights, wipers, etc. were all in the same old boring place. Nothing new but just eye candy.

I was really disgusted. I know that copying is the best form of flattery, but this was just a transparent attempt at a ripoff of General Motors user interface for automobiles.

I love automobiles, and I love Honda, but unless they offer something original, something that GM and Ford don't, then what's the point?

Re:Nothing original

[StillaCoward]

Not so.

I've used a lot of different PC systems and have learned some basic tenants that pretty much old true across the PC world. As such, I can sit down in front of any PC interface be it, Windows, DOS, CDE, KDE, Gnome, etc and pretty much work my way around it.

What I can not do, is make heads or tails of how to use a Mac. To me they are the most unintuitive pieces of junk I've ever encountered. But that is only because they do not follow any of the rules I am so accustomed to.

In short, what is "easy" and "intuitive" to a user, is that which follows the rules of least surprise. Linux users are primarily coming from the PC world. They are used to working in environments such as Solaris OS/2s and Windows. These people will be most productive if they do not have to through out all the accumulated knowledge they have learned over the years, and learn something new.

The best of the best!

[jabbadeznuts]

I've been using KDE since pre 1.0 and I have been VERY happy with every new release. But, installation is still a pain. download tons of RPM and try to figure out in which order they install. It would be nice if the setup was like Gnome with a more simple install. Besides the install, can the KDE team make it that much better?

Rember, the dream of linux on the desktop is a function of just how easy it is to use. Not just to the hackers, but also to Joe Average.

Re:The best of the best!

[Khalid]

If you are running Redhat just use apt-get (apt for rpm) have a look at http://freshrpms.net for instance, otherwise, there is urpmi for Mandrake, up2date for redhat and so on. Installing rpms with dependencies is now very easy thanks to these tools.

Re:The best of the best!

[Ramadog]

If you downloaded all of the rpms into a single directory all you need is the command rpm *.rpm That will install every rpm that is in the current directory after detemining the correct order to install them.

Slash Tease

[stoolpigeon]

"here are a bunch of links you might find interesting- but hurry! Hurry! Oh, they're all gone now - sorry. check back in a couple days"

AMEN Brother.

Hopefully I'll be able to see some of this stuff tomorrow.

.

Perhaps a new name?

[reynolds_john]

I was thinking, "KDE-XP" Actually, the screenshots look beautiful. This is by far my fav window manager.

whoopsie

[navindra]

It looks 256 MaxClient is hardwired in Apache. Oh well, live and learn. We'll have to recompile Apache for next time. We definitely got the CPU/bandwidth for more.

How to install from source?

[BigumD]

I'm pretty new to linux, and I have no idea how to install this if I wanted to. Can some one point me to a site that would have a step-by-step for something like this?

Re:How to install from source?

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

don't want to put you down, but since it's an alpha release it's not likely to have precompiled packages yet. this means downloading sources and compiling by yourself, wich is not a trivial task.

a step-by-step isn't likely to happen too, since the parameters for compiling might change from one distro to another.

basically:

download sources
expand the tar.gz files
locate a file called README or INSTALL
follow the instructions on them

this probably involve solving dependencies (updating other stuff that KDE needs to run such as openGL, QT, etc.), setting up environment variables, telling the configure script where it's suposed to install the binaries, etc.

Re:How to install from source?

[djoham]

Here's the page that I use when I want both a "stable" KDE and a "alpha/development" KDE on my system. It goes through the process for you step by step. Kudo's to the author...

David

Is KDE 3.1 a wannabe Aqua?

[Weezerfreak]

Is it me or does this look too much like OS X Aqua??

Re:Is KDE 3.1 a wannabe Aqua?

[dadragon]

We'll see if they get sued (again).

Re:Is KDE 3.1 a wannabe Aqua?

[nutshell42]

Perhaps the person who took the screens simply likes Aqua and therefore used styles and the configurable panel/taskbar to emulate the look of Aqua

I doubt the KDE-project added a paragraph to the GPL "you only may use themes which look like Aqua"

Re:Is KDE 3.1 a wannabe Aqua?

[NaCh0]

Ya, they do. Good luck finding a KDE theme that doesn't look like Macs or Windows.

Re:Is KDE 3.1 a wannabe Aqua?

[Macka]

> Is it me or does this look too much like OS X Aqua??

It's you. Go buy a pair of glasses.

This new theme looks nothing like Aqua. It is finally a comprehensive window & widget theme that matches WinXP and Aqua for looks, but is uniquely identifiable as being KDE.

My favorite new things:

[friedmud]

From the 3.1 feature plan:

KRfb:
NEW IN KDE: VNC-compatible server to share KDE desktops
Remote Desktop Connection (KRdc):
NEW IN KDE: VNC-compatible client

Now you don't have to have a seperate instance of KDE running with the vncserver - you can share your CURRENT desktop just like you can with Windows and vnc. This is mucho cool - I will use it often!

Derek

Re:My favorite new things:

[aminorex]

You can do this with any X desktop, using x0rfbserver.

Re:My favorite new things:

[HeUnique]

They're not trying to invent something new here - the great thing with this feature is that it's MUCH easier for end user to use without getting the headache of security (it's secured, expires after a period of time, etc)

Re:My favorite new things:

[friedmud]

But I don't want to use "x0rfbserver" - I want to use my nvidia server so I can have accelerated graphics - or are the 2 not mutually exclusive (and if not - how does that work?).

Derek

Re:My favorite new things:

[tjansen]

Actually krfb was a x0rfbserver port, originally. The problem with x0rfbserver is that the codecs are extremely bad compared to newer ones like TightVNC. krfb will use much less bandwidth which is quite important if you use it over a dialup or ISDN connection. And it's also easier to use for end-users, much like WinXP's Remote Assistance.

Re:My favorite new things:

[friedmud]

Ok, looking it up now - it appears that x0rfb just exports the current desktop - meaning it will run alongside my nvidia server - interesting. I would check it out except now I dont have too because I can just use KDE :-)

Thanks for the tip though - I might use it on machines I don't have kde on.

Derek

Re:This kind of reminds me of something.....

[Marque_Off]

KDE is a desktop...not an OS. And it's free...no money...

pretty

[styk]

The other night my friend was burning me a CD in X CD Roast, and I made the comment that one day Linux would have pretty widgets one day that were functional.

We both had a good laugh.

Seriously though I was a die hard Gnome user, but version 2.0 leaves much to be desired. This new version of KDE looks like, once it is released, it might not feel/look so much like I'm still using windows to actually use it. That has been my main problem with KDE since I first used it back in 1997. I really hope that the desktop kids can continue to go forward, cause that is where the war will be lost or won.

Re:KDE myths

[GeekBoy]

>The KDE project is famous for its funded and organised trolling of weblogs and message board associated with Linux and Free software/open source.

So are slashdot gnome trolls like youself.

Why oh why?!

[kaimiike1970]

Seriously, this is an ALPHA release. It would be another story if this was a beta and somebody actually wanted to install it.

A (possibly) more valuable opinion.

[minion2]

We are all able to dispute and debate which WM looks the best, functions the best, or is just the best. Personally, I like Gnome with Metacity. However, I think that new computer users should have the final say as far as ease-of-use goes.

As far as looks... the initial impression made can either make or break a user's opinion of a product.

In a quick test, I set my mom's login (yes, she uses linux! It's great!) to use KDE instead of Gnome. Later, she came up to me and said, "What is going on with the computer?"

I told her that she was seeing KDE, which was like Gnome - what she used to use, but different.

"I don't like it. It's ugly. Get rid of it."

She was quite turned against KDE. Now, I must say that she, before I switched her to Linux, was a mostly unproficient Windows user.

As nice as I think KDE could be, they really need to work out a less cluttered initial install. Don't know if they've fixed it recently, but I thought my head would explode the first time I loaded it up.

Re:A (possibly) more valuable opinion.

[nutshell42]

I agree; most of us who configure their desktops until they don't look like anything the developers had in mind often forget that most users won't ever change the defaults. Regardless how cool Liquid, Keramik, transparent menus, ... are they're useless when they aren't used

Arrrrrgh! Slash Dotted again!

[Eric Damron]

The audacity of these people to suck up all of the bandwidth before _I_ have a chance to read the articles! :-)

All I can say (without actually reading the articles) is: Way to go KDE team. It seems like 3.0 just came out and you guys are already hard at work improving your product! You're doing a great job! Keep it up!!!

Kate == SciTe?

[N8F8]

I've been using SciTe editor for about two months now and I the new Kate sure looks a lot like Scite.

Re:Kate == SciTe?

[N8F8]

SciTe uses a lexer and has different config files with keywords for each language/language group. One of the features I like best is that virtually every option is configurable. Abnother is support for both Win32 languages such as VB/VBScript amd PHP. One thing I don't like is that under Windows it has a wonderful tabbed interface (ala Moz) but under linux it just has buffer forward-back buttons.

I'll give the new version of Kate a try tho. Thanks for the info.

Re:This kind of reminds me of something.....

[Roadmaster]

I'll agree that the new KDE *THEME* seen on the screenshots looks a lot like WinXP, but keep in mind that it can be made to look like almost anything you want.

Also, I disagree with "every body knows that XP was just a pretty GUI". Compared to Windows2000, perhaps it was; but most consumers weren't using Win2k, but Win9x. And WinXP is insistently aimed at home users too, touting new, unheard-of features like STABILITY (whoaaaaaa) and stuff like that. WinXP mixes all that stuff.

Finally, WinXP's prettyness can be argued with; i think it looks childish and dumb, but that's just me..

Re:KDE is not that nice

[Eric Damron]

I find Gnome uncomfortable to work with. It's not that it's a poorly designed desktop it's just that I'm use to KDE.

I think we all tend to settle into a desktop and that becomes our comfort zone. Both KDE and Gnome have a log going for them.

Re:This kind of reminds me of something.....

[akandels]

There's nothing wrong with looking good. 99% of the Linux applications out there look like crap. Microsoft did not patent eye candy, and a wonderful project like KDE should not be critizised for doing such an excellent job on not only stability and usability, but looks and UI. And at the same time, if KDE did make money in sales (which is doesn't, you moron), what the hell is wrong with tailoring your product to match the consumer's needs? You make me angry.

The Plan

[The Bungi]

1.- Make Linux desktop look like Microsoft Windows
2.- ???
3.- Profit!!!

I'm not trolling, but I find it sad that everyone has to copy Windows (Microsoft copied Apple, which copied Xerox, blah, blah). Why can't someone come up with a new UI paradigm that works better? If anything, Open Source has the best chance to do this without spending $$$ in "focus groups" and so on. KDE and GNOME look so much like Windows I'm not even inclined to install the latest versions anymore. Not to put down the effort required to code this things, which is of course enormous. I just think the innovation is not there anymore.

The taskbar-desktop-menu thing should be thrown out. So what if it's a huge change? Most of us will adapt.

Re:The Plan

[Dstrct0]

I know it's "just" a wm for Gnome, but I think Enlightenment fits the bill here.

Click-based navigation (no unnecessary desktop menu button), customizable, doesn't look much like windows to me :)

Re:The Plan

[The Bungi]

Those are a bit better (and far easy on the machine). I like Blackbox myself. But they still stick to the same paradigms, IMO.

I don't know how the alternative would look of course... If I did I would be sitting on a beach, earning 15% =)

But I'm sure it doesn't look like the stuff we have now.

Re:The Plan

[sithlord2]

I'm not trolling, but I find it sad that everyone has to copy Windows (Microsoft copied Apple, which copied Xerox, blah, blah).

Because everybody knows how to use Windows.

Why can't someone come up with a new UI paradigm that works better?

Now I keep hearing this alot. What is a "new UI paradigm" ?? Personally, The "click-with-the-mouse-on-a-window"-paradigm works pretty well for me.
What would be a better system ? Please enlighten me...

Re:The Plan

[bilbobuggins]

I'm not trolling, but I find it sad that everyone has to copy Windows (Microsoft copied Apple, which copied Xerox, blah, blah).

Until you actually suggest a new paradigm yourself you are absolutely, most certainly, beyond a doubt, trolling.
Those in glass houses yada yada...

Re:The Plan

[spitzak]

I'll suggest a change that would make Linux much superior to Windows because it will allow programs to use multiple overlapping windows:

DON'T RAISE WINDOWS UNLESS THE USER CLICKS ON THE BORDER!!!!

By this I mean:

1. When the user clicks in a window, give it the focus, but DONT RAISE IT.

2. (less obvious but NO modern window managers do this) When the user raises a "child" window, DO NOT RAISE THE PARENT!!!! This is the real killer that makes it impossible to have overlapping windows of any substantial size.

3. Provide a way to move windows around without raising them. For instance, why not the way X window managers worked for a decade before people starting thinking copying MicroSoft was kool: if the user drags the border, move the window and DO NOT RAISE IT, if they click they can raise it. Modern window managers seem to be unable to do this correctly, the KDE I am using cannot do this unless you turn off all ability to raise the windows.

I really really wish some of these people would do this. I do not believe it will "confuse" the amateur user, and it would allow some user interface designs that cannot be done with Windows. Mostly it would allow a single object to be controlled by 2 or more large "views" that overlap on the screen in different windows.

On another point, please test everything under point-to-type. If a program grabs the focus it should warp the mouse to point at it (after first making absolutely positively sure you really really really want to grab the focus).

Re:The Plan

[rseuhs]

1. When the user clicks in a window, give it the focus, but DONT RAISE IT.

This exact feature was the reason why I switched from Windows to KDE1 back in 1998.

Now you have demonstrated that you have never used KDE, what was your point again?

Re:The Plan

[The Bungi]

Until you actually suggest a new paradigm yourself you are absolutely, most certainly, beyond a doubt, trolling.

And unless you have something intelligent to say, or are otherwise inclined to insult me properly or just FOAD, please keep your insight to yourself. I forget where in the TOS (or whatever passes for that here) it says "all posts should include a heavy dose of valid arguments. Otherwise don't bother".

If it's so damn complicated for you to understand I was merely voicing a simple thought then you're absolutely, most certainly, beyond a doubt, stupid.

Re:The Plan

[bilbobuggins]

alright, point taken...

my problem with your post is this: lots of people complain about things (especially software) without seeming to have any real reason to do so or without offering any help. basically this just makes life harder for other people and helps no one. if you are in are in the tech field (i assume you are) you've probably at one point had user X make vague demands of you like 'why doesn't it look better?...' (note, no _real_ suggestion offered) or other such completely subjective comments that lead to nothing getting done as we all go on a wild goose chase to make a piece of software 'better' with no real definition of what that is. in short, i found your criticism of KDE completely unconstructive.

secondly, KDE/Gnome has copied MS for a simple reason: MS etc. puts real time and money into trying UI concepts out and seeing what works. the resulting interface seems to be useful for pretty much everyone.
so in MY opinion shying away from already existing knowledge in the field and chasing after a vague undefined holy grail of interface design seems like it would be the worst way to spend time for any linux desktop developer.
yes, you are completely entitled to any opinion, i happen to consider what you said more akin to flamebait.
if you DO come up with a new better paradigm, then i'm sure i will appreciate it along with everyone else but until that time i think you see where i'm coming from...

Debian

[jchawk]

Is debian ever going to have an official package? Did I just miss something? Seems like I've been waiting forever.

Re:Debian

[MrHanky]

Try adding something like

deb http://kde3.geniussystems.net/debian/ ./

or

deb http://kde.ping.uio.no/i386 ./

in your /etc/apt/sauces.list. That should do the trick. These are semi-official packages, or beta releases of the packages that will go into sid after woody releases.

Re:Debian

[MrHanky]

Yeah, it's not without problems, which might partly explain why it's still not in main. AFAIR, it has something to do with libarts. KDE3 includes/depends on libarts1, which replaces and conflicts with libarts, and wine depends on libarts >= something. Or something like that.

If you can't live without wine, you should wait for KDE3 to be put in main. It's not that much of an upgrade from 2.2 anyway.

New Look

[Ween]

After looking at the new screenshots, I can honestly say that this will be the first KDE which I will not have to alter the look of significantly from the default install. This will mean good things for people unaware of kde-look.org and other enhancements that are 3rd party to kde. KDE will finally look very polished and professional (if not a little bit over the top like XP .. but definately far more attractive than XP).

Forget eye candy, we want Usability and Effeciency

[Soul-Burn666]

What does beautiful eye candy help you if it works slow?

I have a Linux box and a WinXP box. When I installed the XP, the first thing I did was to remove all the useless eyecandy, such as fading in and out. It only makes menus slower to get to. The whole XP UI seems slower and heavier than before, with no improvment in usability..

I don't want to see this happening to KDE. I want the UI to work fast and smart.

Re:Ive been using KDE 3.1 Alpha for some time now

[zdzichu]

because my friend works for KDE, and he leaked me the code.

isn't KDE free software project? You can get the code by yourself from CVS. You don't have to have someone 'leaking' the code.

Drop Shadows

[baboon]

I remember an Amiga utility to do drop shadows on all the windows. It looked really cool, but was too slow for regular use.

It looks like this KDE effect is only for menus, which seems to reduce the impact. Also, on the Amiga utility, they gave each level of height a progressively wider shadow (and they casted relatively onto each other). That looked much more natural and gave a believable impression of many floating platforms.

Re:Drop Shadows

[spitzak]

The trick for the drop shadows only works if the window will not be moved and there will be no change to the display below the window until it disappears. For this reason it is only good for pop-up (and pull-down) menus, and perhaps for tooltips.

What really is happening is the window is somewhat larger than it looks, it includes a bottom and right edge that have been painted with an image that looks just like what is behind it plus a shadow.

Re:Drop Shadows

[ShortSpecialBus]

and why can't you do something like that with transparency or alpha blending and just repaint the window every time there is a desktop change?

I'm not big on GUI programming so i might be completely off here, but couldn't you just catch any signals of something happening on the desktop and have it redraw the shadowing whenver something on the desktop changes?
while it may take CPU horsepower, that may only be an issue when dragging windows around in which case you could do something ala windows where it just drags the border of the window until you set it down...
I may be way off on this, but I don't think that the idea should be tossed aside so cavalierly...

Re:Drop Shadows

[spitzak]

The reason you can't do this is X lacks any way to find out what the other application tried to draw on the obscured portion of the window. All such drawing is clipped and thrown away by the X server.

If you ignore changes, you could in theory allow the window to drag by remembering the entire screen initially and continuously redrawing the shadowed part. But I think the "real" edge would quickly become visible because the changing image would not be in sync with the window movement.

Re:Ive been using KDE 3.1 Alpha for some time now

[LMCBoy]

Interesting...a Linux "master" that thinks it's possible to "leak" KDE code....

Mirror of screenshots site

[idiot900]

I've set up a mirror of the screenshots site:


http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/users/tom/kde31alpha/

Enjoy!

Re:Desktop sharing?

[tjansen]

It is fully VNC compatible and supports the latest codecs.

Fresco

[extrasolar]

"Um. Pardon me, but how else are you supposed to render translucent objects?"

I think he means like this.

Re:Fresco

[JabberWokky]

"Um. Pardon me, but how else are you supposed to render translucent objects?"

I think he means like this [fresco.org].

Okay, very nice. Now, how does that render translucent objects *other* than using either hardware or software?

--
Evan

Re:Fresco

[extrasolar]

I think you are, perhaps intentionally, misunderstanding the spirit of the statement. If you are seriously uncertain, you can email me at klh@wildapache.net .

Evolution of Software

[peterdaly]

I am already starting to see comments in this thread like "feature X is just a ripp-off of product Y", who decided to put in feature Z, I hate it", etc. I just finished reading Survival Is Not Enough, by Seth Godin, who is a former Executive at Yahoo, among other things. These complaints are features that really should be applauded instead. Which criticizm is good, just the fact that a feature is similar to something else another product has is not bad.

Much of the book has to do with the evolution of products suchs as web sites and software. Evolution happens in software just like in life forms. Much of the book pushes the idea of making as many "mutations" in a short time with as little money as possible. Let the bad ones die, keep the good ones. If another product has a feature that works well, why not use as much of the basic concept as possible. Image what the word processor world be like to day if none of the publishers used features other software had already implemented. Cross polination in evolutionary terms. This is along the lines of the tabbed browsing in Konquer, and the "Qwertz" toolbar thing.

The rant about the stupid KDE clipboard function? I admit, I don't use the feature either. Is it bad it was put in? No. As many "test" features as possible should be put into the public view to see which are good and which are bad. The good features will stay, the bad will be phased out. These "mutations" of the core are what helps create innovative features. Who knows, someday a desktop envirnment might be considered horrible if it doesn't have whatever the KDE clipboard thing does. (I don't even KNOW what it is supposed to do, which may be more the problem.)

These are not bad, and in my mind should be encouraged of both the Gnome team and the KDE team. As many people here know, innovation happens much faster when there are competing technologies, and not just a big monopoly in any given market.

-Pete
(Book link is an affiliate link...I read the book and liked it. I think you will too.)

Re:Evolution of Software

[peterdaly]

You can use Windows instead if you so desire. It seems to have a much more conservative approach to innovation and a much more mature GUI envirnment than Linux.

-Pete

Re:Evolution of Software

[Hektor_Troy]

I am already starting to see comments in this thread like "feature X is just a ripp-off of product Y", who decided to put in feature Z, I hate it", etc.

It gets worse. They clearly ripped off the idea of displaying characters on screen from Xerox! Remove it - now!

VNC with compression?

[nurb432]

Wonder what branch of vnc they used..

Great to see in included, one less thing to have to install manually afterwards ( and not integrate well afterwards anyway )

Re:VNC with compression?

[tjansen]

The server uses libvncserver which has a quite complex history, but supports TightVNC. The client is based on TightVNC's clients, but with many new goodies.

Re:VNC with compression?

[CJ Hooknose]

Don't know about the VNC client (if there is any, it would be cool to be able to enter "vnc://password@111.222.111.222" into Konqueror, for sure) but the VNC-server that's in KDE 3.1 was released for KDE2 and KDE 3.0 as "krfb", and it worked pretty well--I'm running it on my laptop right now. Google for "krfb" and you'll find it.

Re:VNC with compression?

[tjansen]

if there is any, it would be cool to be able to enter "vnc://password@111.222.111.222" into Konqueror, for sure
You can, but the syntax is vnc://somenamethatwillbeignored:password@111.222.1 11.222
(if you just write someword@address it is a username, not a password)

Re:This kind of reminds me of something.....

[13Echo]

"every body knows that XP was just a pretty GUI and it looks like this is too."

You just explained it right there. People want Windows XP (or MacOS) without the Windows or the Mac.

There isn't anything wrong with that. Why not take some of the best features of the other popular GUIs and put it into your own? You can always use a different desktop environment and/or window manager.

I personally think that it looks more like MacOS X than a Windows machine, though.

question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[Ender Ryan]

Looking at these new screenshots, I can see that the KDE developers are improving the look/feel of KDE recently, which is very good because frankly I found it rather ugly.

One thing that keeps from from giving KDE much attention is a small pet peeve of mine. The task list, I absolutely hate task lists, it's absolutely the the epitome of bad interface design. You have a horizontal list of application names, which are variable sizes, and the more you have the smaller they can be... ugg, disgusting.

So, my question is, does KDE have any type of drop down task switcher, a la MacOS Thanks

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[TomorrowPlusX]

Yes.
I'm at work so I can't give you the exact configuration instructions; but from the keyboard shortcuts control panel in kcontrol, you can set up a keyboard accel to give you a task list.

Mine is set to alt-esc -- and accordingly I pulled the tasklist out of kicker, which I always thought was bad design too. Now, I just hit alt-esc and I get of list of running apps, segregated by desktop. I can click on any one (or nav by keyboard arrows) and it will switch to the right desktop and bring that app to the front.

It's very, *very* nice.

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[Ender Ryan]

Interesting, any way to make this a drop down menu, like in Gnome? Sure would be nice.

Thanks though, I'll give that a try next time I check out KDE.

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[orcrist]

One thing that keeps from from giving KDE much attention is a small pet peeve of mine. The task list, I absolutely hate task lists, it's absolutely the the epitome of bad interface design.

I guess you only ever looked at screenshots then, since the taskbar has been removable since 2.0 (October 23, 2000). I don't know what MacOS' drop down task switcher looks like but KDE has had something similar for its whole existence AFAIK.

No offence but it looks like the thing keeping you from using KDE is an unwillingness to try a new Desktop out; granted you might still not like it after trying, but KDE it highly configurable, and you might want to at least ask what's possible, if not try what's possible before you complain.

-chris

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[brunes69]

Yes, There is an icon box - type Kicker extention very simmilar to the one in E, I was using it for a while. It shows only the icons of the open windows, and can be set to be transparant. I forget th enam eif it.. but just go through the kicker rxtentions and it is there somewhere. And you can simply remove the task list, it is just a Kicker applet.

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[Salsaman]

Personally, although I run KDE, I still like the gnome system manager. It runs with no problems under KDE, as long as you have gnome libs installed too.

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[mabinogi]

There has ALWAYS been one in kde....right from 1.x

You could add a window list button to your panel, or middle click on the desktop

You can still do both of those, but there's also (Sinse 2.x) KasBar, which is an icon box style list.

Re:question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[stilborne]

right click on the panel (kicker), select Add -> Special Button -> Window List ... tada! a button with a menu that shows you your tasks!

not to point out the obvious, but...

[naasking]

why not?

question about KDE, from a Gnome user

[Ender Ryan]

Looking at these new screenshots, I can see that the KDE developers are improving the look/feel of KDE recently, which is very good because frankly I found it rather ugly.

One thing that keeps me from from giving KDE much attention is a small pet peeve of mine. The task list, I absolutely hate task lists, it's absolutely the the epitome of bad interface design. You have a horizontal list of application names, which are variable sizes, and the more you have the smaller they can be... ugg, disgusting.

So, my question is, does KDE have any type of drop down task switcher, a la MacOS<=9.x and Gnome? Or an icon box a la OSX and Enlightenment? I simply cannot stand the windows style taskbar, it's... you get the idea...

Thanks

update, MaxClients 800

[navindra]

title says it all, increased MaxClients to 800. but looks like they are quickly being used. :-)

KAudioCreator

[IceFox]

As many of you know kde2->3 was not much for eye candy and was more underneith and even then was mainly bug fixes. 3.1 was the first time that developers got to put up new stuff. One of the least known new items is KAudioCreator which is a ogg/mp3/everything audio ripping tool. From the website:

KAudioCreator is an audio file creation solution for kde. It allows you to use whatever encoder you wish to encode your audio files while providing a comfortable gui. KAudioCreator also provides a job control system so you can see what files have succeeded, failed and stop or cancel jobs as the application progresses.

Screenshots!

and for those kde 2 users I have back ported it to kde2 and put it on my webpage. -Benjamin Meyer

Re:KDE keeps getting better or is that bigger?

[pdqlamb]

How much memory does it take to run KDE nowadays? It seems to be keeping pace with Winblows (NTM) as a prime example of bloatware.

They need OSX like eyecandy

[HanzoSan]

Alpha Channel / Transparency

Genie effect or equally impressive effects.

They seriously need to get 4-5 developers working on a project with just THAT specific purpose, of improving the eyecandy in KDE. OR maybe someone like Lindows can fund development of xfree86's render extention.

More Eyecandy

[HanzoSan]

We need more eyecandy if KDE is supposed to ever be better than OSX or even XP, better icon animation (its a good start but improve on it and make it more useful)

Alpha channel, so we can have a alpha channeled kicker and panel

Some cool special effects, like genie effect or even motion blur,

Re:More Eyecandy

[MaxVlast]

Um, I thought that eye candy was a waste of processor cycles. And alpha channels caused users to have to buy the biggest video cards around, and were evil because the guy with a ten year old machine under his desk would have to buy a seven year old machine.

Or is that just when the operating system that you can't have does it that's a waste and stupid?

Re:More Eyecandy

[HanzoSan]

Only programmers care about processor cycles.

Most desktop users who just run word and a webbrowser, they dont care about processor cycles, they arent compiling code.

So waste? waste is what programmers who have to save their precious little CPU cycles to compile their little kernel a few minutes faster care about. Not someone whos just surfing the web downloading mp3s and chatting.

Re:More Eyecandy

[MAXOMENOS]

Some of us like wasting processor cycles that way.

I think this should be optional, btw. Linux is Linux whether it's running on an 8MHz 386 with four megs of RAM or a 3Ghz Pentium 4 with four gigs of RAM.

The "Keramik" look works with 3.0, as well as 3.1

[Queuetue]

If you're just after the eye candy, you can download a srpm of the keramik theme here:

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=219 3

or a tarball here:

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=219 4

So basically

[RatFink100]

KDE now wants to look like a cross between XP and OSX.

Which is fine if you like that I guess.

Re:So basically

[rseuhs]

Bashers have problems distinguishing "have to" and "be able to"

Just because you are able to recompile the kernel doesn't mean you have to.

Just because you are able to update KDE/Linux every month, doesn't mean you have to.

Just because KDE can look like OSX doesn't mean it has to

Got my message? Well, probably not, whatever.

Re:So basically

[RatFink100]

I can distinguish between those two concepts just fine and I'm not a 'basher'.

I was commenting on the default theme and toolbar configuration - as displayed in the screenshot.

For many that will be "the look of KDE"

If the KDE developers wanted to establish a dramatically different look and feel from those other OS GUIs they would have done so in the default setup. They obviously didn't.

As I said - if that's what you like then fine.

Re:So basically

[rseuhs]

And if you don't - that's fine too. There come several styles in the default configuration.

KDE project I never want to see

[MAXOMENOS]

The PaperKlip.

This is a software agent that determines what kind of task you're trying to do, pops up, and provides "helpful" advice. Like the MS Office Paperclip agent, the advice isn't that great, and it's a HUGE burden on resources. Unlike the MS Office Paperclip agent, it provides "helpful" advice for the ENTIRE KDE project.

Mandrake users will love it; Debian users will want to destroy the author on sight. The author will show up to LUG meetings with a fake beard and sunglasses.

What Eye Candy? OSX kicks its ass

[HanzoSan]

I'm sorry but KDE has a long long way to go before impressing anyone with its eye candy.

why even bother showing off eye candy when its just drop shadows or anti aliased fonts,

The animated icons was a good start, they should improve that so for example you can take a gaim icon or instant message icon from your desktop and put it on your panel somewhere and when you get a msg it animates, or when its on your desktop and you get a msg it animates.

When you put a Cd in the CD drive, the CD icon should appear and begin to spin, to animate whats happenining. Basically they should let our actions influence the animations, more so than just a random animation when you put your mouse over it. Maybe an animation when you actually click it, or if you modify a folder somehow like lock or unlock it, the animation should occur with the lock being slapped on the folder.

Animations is something that OSX and XP does not do, so why not improve that?

Re:What Eye Candy? OSX kicks its ass

[John Allsup]

Whilst its place wouldn't really be inside KDE, some kind of standard central `hardware/os events daemon' to which process can attach themselves
is a must. What is required is the ability to
be able to say `watch the CD; tell me when it is inserted/removed/whatever', 'tell me if this folder gets modified', etc. Yes I know this can be done via various approaches/workarounds, but for each and every application author to do this is rather wasteful.

What KDE stands for

[Rob Kaper]

KDE stands for: (The) Kalle Dalheimer Experience ;)

ghobe' bIlughbe' ji-bIlugh Klingon Desktop Environment

naDev tlhInganpu' tu'lu' yaj'a' majQa'

They NEED to also enhance their icon animations

[HanzoSan]

First, we should be able to set the max framerate of the animations.

Second developers should be able to create animations so programs illustrate our actions.

You put a CD in your CD rom and its a game CD, you should see maybe a little light or flash on the desktop which turns into a little spinning CD, if the game programmers wrote an animation for their icon, the doom CD could have an animated icon of the devil or whatever.

Or you could set it up so when you run a program the icon animate.

When you burn a CD a spinning burning CD animation could appear, why would this be useful? someone who doesnt know a damn thing about computers could look at that burning spinning Cd icon and know what the computer is doing without opening up any programs.

Animation is what seperates OSX from linux, the genie effect, alpha channeling, that extra level of overkill eyecandy is what people want and need for ease of use.

awesome backgrounds

[gregfortune]

I can only see glimpses of the backgrounds in the last 6 screenshots, but they rock! Any one have any idea where I can grab them (besides checking out the KDE tree...)????

Even, what about improving icon animation

[HanzoSan]

IF you say its a video card issue, how about improving the animated icons, I'm not talking about going overboard, but allowing the user to decide the frame rate, allowing our actions to decide the animations of an icon, so an icon can have several diffrent animations, cd icon should have a music cd animation, a burning cd animation for burning, a game cd animation, a dvd movie animation, so anyone who doesnt know computers can understand what is going on by looking at the icon animate.

I'm talking about improving the animation in terms of frames per second,, doing that would do alot for eyecandy and ease of use, if its done right.

Xfree can support this, people have the ram to do it, and the cpu power but if they dont, they should be able to decide the frame rate just like the decide the icon sizes.

Re:Even, what about improving icon animation

[JabberWokky]

Well, this is an issue totally unrelated to X or video drivers - it's easily doable, but...

they should be able to decide the frame rate [ of the icons]

Who? The creator of the icon can do that right now - the icons are MNG files (the animated form of PNG files), and they have a framerate set inside them. What you want is for the desktop user to be able to override that? I suppose it's possible, but I for one just don't see it as a desirable feature.

As for having several different animations based on status, there has been some talk of that (Mosfet at one point discussed it, and he's got some code for animated widgets written, but not, afaik for animated icons). While a developer might suddenly write it, I'd think that to do it right (maybe a .desktop file with scripted dcop calls?) would entail enough time to a stable product that it's unlikely to appear in the very near future. The framework is there, but there's not much demand from the application authors for such an ability.

The fact that it's getting down to such minor details ("I want to globally set the framerate on the animated icons") shows that it's a mature desktop. (Incidently, if you *really* want to change the framerate, you can always open the icons in an editor, change the framerate and save them... Me? One of the first things I do on a new KDE desktop is turn the animations *off*. They bug me... and there's a nice, easy setting for that in the Control Center)

--
Evan

Re:Even, what about improving icon animation

[HanzoSan]

Who? The creator of the icon can do that right now - the icons are MNG files (the animated form of PNG files), and they have a framerate set inside them. What you want is for the desktop user to be able to override that? I suppose it's possible, but I for one just don't see it as a desirable feature.


But I the user cannot set the frame rate.Whos computer will be rendering these frames? Mine. So why shouldnt I decide the max amount? If i can change my icon sizes and my screen resolution it only makes sense.

Theres not going to be demand from application authors because application authors cant demand something thats this new.

Its kinda like how the industry didnt demand peer to peer until after napster was made. You have the technology, now we need some ways for developers to take advantage of it, then the demand will come, not from developers but from the users who will then create developer damand.

Kinda like alpha channel, developers dont care about that its the users who demand that.

Yeah KDE is mature, we arent even debating that, the problem with KDE is, while its mature, its still not at the level of OSX. OSX still has it beat in terms of ease of use, eye candy etc, to beat OSX it needs animated icons, SVG icons, alpha channel, and great usability and functionality, If KDE developers focus on the small details (which is what KDE lacks right now) KDE could be competiting with OSX in about a year.

Re:Even, what about improving icon animation

[JabberWokky]

to beat OSX it needs animated icons, SVG icons, alpha channel

Done, done and done. All three are part of the 3.x series release... these features are at the "they work" level, and are still getting polish each minor release (SVG support is brand new with this upcoming release).

But I the user cannot set the frame rate.Whos computer will be rendering these frames? Mine. So why shouldnt I decide the max amount?

You *can* - on an icon by icon level. Can you even set the global animation speed of icons in OSX or XP? I'm sorry, but I really don't see why you would want to. But it's a really really minor thing - I've checked, and there *is* a value that controls minimum interval of animation to prevent an icon with a interval value of zero from killing performance. It's set to a very low (non zero) value. If you really wanted to, you could set up a slider in the Control Center to set that value... but...

IMO, that starts cluttering the Control Center with minutae that isn't necessary in the default KDE installation. Now, if you want to write a panel for the Control Center that edits that, you can easily release a "TweakUI" or "PowerTools" style package that adds stuff like that to the Control Center - one that I use adds a Matrox specific panel that lets me set all sorts of Matrox G4x0 specific settings. A Matrox specific panel would hardly be of use to the users in general... but I like it. I'd personally class your request as something like that. Easily done, but useless clutter except for those few who really want to control every variable on their system. In which case, an addon panel of PowerUser UI settings that goes into the Control Center makes much more sense.

--
Evan "Need I add that these are all just my opinions?"

Re:Even, what about improving icon animation

[John Allsup]

As an immediate thought, allowing a user configurable constant multiplier for the
ticks-per-second variable in the MNG header
would be possible and (hopefully)
rather straightforward. Allowing the ticks-per-second to be uniformly set or bounded could lead to silly differences in speeds between animations.

SVG icons

[Max von H.]

Wasn't KDE 3.1 supposed to bring SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) icons / wigets? That'd be so shweeeet...

Re:SVG icons

[tjansen]

SVG icons are supported. But there is no SVG icon set ATM.

Re:SVG icons

[yobbo]

The connectiva crystal icon set will be SVG icons, and the developer Everaldo intends on having the icon set finished in time for conclusion in KDE 3.1

In the mean time you can see a non installable preview here:

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=240 8& PHPSESSID=e0b34b211f0ee114b78ea85bf80b4bf2

Wonderful new eye candy?

[Trogre]

I really wish they would give less priority to dollying up the interface and putting more effort into stability.

Last night when I was sorting through some archive folders on my hard drive the konqueror segfaulted on me no less than three times within an hour; and that was just doing bog-standard folder move and delete operations!!!

Until such show-stoppers like this are rectified, kde CANNOT become a viable alternative to a bash prompt.

Also I would like the ability to control exactly what needs to be double-clicked (desktop icons, konqueror objects) and what doesn't (menu branches), but that's just me.

No

[FooBarWidget]

The Slashdot community doesn't help. After all, all "the Slashdot community" does is flaming, trolling, bitching about how *BSD is dead, and advertising for goatse.cx.
Have you ever seen how many posts are moderated -1? And how many users *only* have posts that are -1? "A lot" is an understatement.

The best looking desktop ever

[DrunkenPenguin]

OK, this is objective opinion. Why don't you all just check out the best looking desktop there is! I've also got Mac, but I got to admit, this beats it all the way.

Aren't Linux coders overlooking this...?

[sardaukar_siet]

I told some Linux zealots about this before, but no one seems to care... what about FONTS?! Why is text on Linux so ugly? Forget AAsing, the fonts are just plain UGLY. Why? Is it so hard to draw new ones and include them? I feel forced to use M$'s Tahoma on my KDE3 desktop and it finally looks great. Why? WHY? :)

Re:Aren't Linux coders overlooking this...?

[tjansen]

Yes, good fonts are extremely difficult to make and VERY expensive. Feel free to create one, many people will love you for this.

Re:This kind of reminds me of something.....

[chowells]

Go try and read one of the articles linked to in the story: http://kdemyths.urbanlizard.com/viewMyth.php?mythI D=38.

Re:WinXP looking

[chowells]

It's just you.

Up-to-date KDE 3.02+ for Red hat 7.2/7.3

[Nailer]

If you don't want to ride the cutting edge on your work desktop, I'd suggest those of you running Red Hat should install apt and add the following to your sources.list:

rpm http://www.math.unl.edu/linux/redhat/apt 7.2/i386 kde3

This guy has packaged KDE 3.02 for Red Hat 7.3, but more to the point, also a bunch of useful apps from apps.kde.com, including KRFB (the desktop sharing app) and, IIRC, the samba / nfs right-click file sharing Konqueror plugins.

Copying Microsoft again

[mgkimsal2]

This seems to be another case of copying Microsoft again. They've bundled a remote desktop viewer tool, and now KDE has it. Why can't people integrate some of the cooler stuff before MS? Yes, you could do some of this before, with much setup, but it's going to be point-and-click, and MS beats people to 'point-and-click' implementations usually.

Here's something I've seen people BEGGING for in Konqueror and Mozilla - file upload progress bars in the browser. How much do we want to bet that MS will put that in IE7, THEN konqueror or mozilla will implement it poorly 6 months later?

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[tjansen]

Hmm... i started krfb before I knew the Remote Assistance feature in WinXP. But when I saw it I got a number of ideas from RA, no doubt.
The question is: dont you want a feature anymore just because MS implemented it first?

One of the reasons why MS gets the cool stuff first is because KDE still needs to catch up. Many people claim that Linux/KDE is already competitive, but that isnt true. There are many things that Windows has and Linux/KDE doesnt, so be prepared to see even more copied features before KDE gets the big features that Window lacks.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[fferreres]

How can you call this copying Microsoft when it has been available years before they included the "feature". I mean PCAnyware and the likes...

Come on, they implement things as they see fit, when they like it and of course, everyone can contribute.

You've see some people begging for file upload progress bars in the browser? So? I've seen hundreds if not thouthands of people begging for different stuff. The thing is doing them, and doing only the ones than make sense.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[spitzak]

I think the point is that they copied the GUI from MicroSoft. Of course you could do this years before MicroSoft thought of it by using VNC and typing the right cryptic thing on the command line on both machines, but nobody thought to make this user-friendly until they saw MicroSoft do it. That is what the original poster was saying.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[mgkimsal2]

*I* do, but I think many people don't - BECAUSE it's MS. I agree, it's not competitive with MS or Apple yet. Nice? Yes. Closer than a year ago? Sure. But no cigar yet.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[rseuhs]

How come that everytime Microsoft copies a something it's OK, but if KDE copies something it's evil?

What about tabbed browsing?
What about multiple desktops?
What about opening new browser windows with the MMB?
What about themes!
What about scrollbar-jumping?
What about the Alt-modifier key for faster window-manipulation?

MSFT copied often enough and is now clearly lagging behind KDE in the GUI area because they still have a lot to copy to catch up.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[mgkimsal2]

Dunno what the scrollbar thing is.

Themes suck - they impact consistency.

Tabbed browsing is good.

Multiple desktops mean less to me than consistent cut/copy/paste between apps. Having highlighted text auto-copied to the clipboard (overwriting what I had put there myself intentionally) SUCKS.

Re:Copying Microsoft again

[rseuhs]

Dunno what the scrollbar thing is.

If you would have KDE installed you could click with the middle mousebutton on a scrollbar and you would know.

Having highlighted text auto-copied to the clipboard (overwriting what I had put there myself intentionally) SUCKS.

It sucks even more listening to complete morons bitching about features they don't have to use.

If you use your sacred Wintendo Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V you will never know that there is another clipboard.

If you don't like Themes, don't use them, goddamnit.

This latest release is BEAUTIFUL.

[Martin Marvinski]

Oh my god! It's an OS X like GUI that runs on Linux. The desktop issue that Linux always had has been solved! Right On, we knew it was bound to happen, but the desktop is finally better than Mac and Windows.

Here's the screenshots link that someone posted already in this thread.
http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/users/tom/kde31alpha/

Plan acccomplished!

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

Linux IS 2/3 superior to windows according to your criteria or rather KDE is.

All hints apply to KDE-3.0.2, KDE-3.1a1 is still a little too flaky (usable, but annoying at times).

To get number 1:
Kcontrol->LooknFeel->Window Settings
Set "Inactive inner Window": Left mouse button to "Activate and pass click". (Default is "Activate, Raise and pass click".)

OK I have no idea about number 2

To get number 3:
Alt+Leftclick on the window moves it in kwin without raising it.

Re:Plan acccomplished!

[spitzak]

Yes it is true that most X window managers have a way to turn off click-to-raise, which certainly is better than Windows. I have my KDE configured this way. It would still help if this was the default, however, so applications could assumme it!

Number 2 is the real killer for me however. It makes it impossible to have a modal window that stays on top and still allow an application to have overlapping main windows. Every single modern X window manager, and Windows, and OS/X, have this annoying behavior. I think this could easily be fixed but the designers are sheep and are scared to death of being different.

On my KDE alt+left does nothing, however I did notice that the right mouse button pops up a menu that has "move" on it and that moves the window without raising it. Still not as nice as old fvwm behavior, in my opinion.

What if the bad mutties don't die out?

[aliens]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems unless a total rewrite of a codebase is done the bad seems to simply stick around. Adding to the bloat.

Misnamed :(

[Inoshiro]

Here, I had my hopes up that something like CoolEdit had come to Linux. There are no professional wave editors for Linux.

KRipAudio would've been a nicer name.

Re:Misnamed :(

[elliott666]

what about kwave? I'm not too familiar with what cooledit is like these days but kwave has most of the features I used to use in cooledit 95.

here's what they say...

• KDE2/3 conform GUI
• 24 Bit Support
• Undo/Redo
• Simple Drag & Drop
• Support for multi-track files
• Complete zoom and scroll-capability
• Playback via KDE's aRts or OSS (deprecated)
• Load and edit-capability for large files (can use virtual memory)
• Reading and auto-repair of damaged wav-files
• Supports multiple windows
• Import of all file types supported by libaudiofile
• Extendable Plugin interface

Re:Kde developers

[10Ghz]

Didn't that start from a post by a KDE-developer where he complained Israels policy regarding palestinians? So disagreeing with Israel = Nazi?

And weren't there some anti-black comments found in Debian? They were put there by one of the devels. Does that mean that Debian is racist?

And what about socialism? It's just a political/economic system, just like capitalism is. It's not evil, just like capitalism is not evil.

Last time I checked, we still have freedom of speech

Amy Grant

[Tottori]

Ba ha ha ha! Aside from that, it looks cool.

Just one thing: does it support no-click ripping? The one reason I kludged together my own script is that all the other programs I tried required me to dig up the window and click something just to say I actually wanted to rip the CD I just put in. When you're doing 10 in a row, that's really annoying.

Re:Amy Grant

[IceFox]

Well I pretty much went to the library and grabbed the first 50 cd's that they had (the limit) and used them as test material. _A_my Grant as you can see would be in that pile.

But yes that is in fact one of the reasons why I wrote it. I wanted to be able to rip 30 cd's and have them just "encode" overnight. Encoding takes that longest time always. Thus I made a job control system where it will create jobs of ripping and encoding automaticly. So other then setting up the cd info you just have to click rip.

-Benjamin Meyer

Re:WinXP looking

[StillaCoward]

I can't fully describe it, but the effect is not of a WinXP look alike. Infact, I'd buy that it is an OS X look alike more readily. WinXP has a childish pastel looking and color scheme. KDE seem to borrow many elements from the Mac, and the colors, while blue, do not have a pastel look about them.

In my opinion, KDE's look is much more attractive.

For moi

[NaveWeiss]

Hello Big Dogs Cock

Since you managed to achieve a karma capped account and you're looking for creative ways to burn karma, I'd appreciate if you post a link to this thing in various stories, in order to increase the attention of the slashdot chicks.

Thank you very much.

thanks

[jabbadeznuts]

Thank you very much. Being sort of a n00b, all of these little tips are great help! Thank you!