Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the breaking-into-new-markets dept.
the beava writes "Palm has officially announced the release of their latest handheld, the Zire. At $99 dollars (retail), it looks like they're trying to market this thing to people like parents and children. " Not a bad looking unit for the price.
not only does it not have a back light, but there is no cradle, nor does it come with AvantGo. Yes, avant go is free, but that only helps you if you know what it is and where to get it. The only thing this new one has over the m105 is the built in battery, but I think the m105 is a better organizer.
--
It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
Re:No backlight
by
c.derby
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· Score: 3, Insightful
yes, but the m105 was originally more expensive. it only dropped to the $99 range when it was discontinued.
btw, if you know what avantgo is, you know where to get it. if you don't have it and dont' know what it is, do you really miss it? besides, this unit only has 2MB. avantgo would only fill up the "entry level" amount of memory.
yes, i think that the lack of backlight is a big mistake. i could never own (another) pda without a backlight. but remember, this unit isn't for the pda connoisseur. its for the k-mart, target, walmart crowd. an "affordable" palm handlheld to get them hooked on the technology.
Not only does it have no backlight and no cradle, it doesn't run Linux. Or is there a working port with X server by now?
-- --
Ed Avis
ed@membled.com
Re:No backlight
by
palmpunk
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Not only is my palm my organizer, its also a flashlight. Come on Palm. No one even makes watches without backlights!
Re:No backlight
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
duh. no Palm hardware has been running GNU/Linux to date, but many of their previous PDAs have had backlights and cradles. You want Linux, get a Sharp Zaurus. But your wallet will be significantly lighter at the end of the day. OK?
If they put a back light in it, what would make you go buy an upgraded version in a year when you were used to the palm, but really craved a backlight?
Actually I have used the backlight of my Siemens M50 as emergency lightsource in a dark room - it's amazing how little light you ned to see a sufficient outline of large items.
Yes, yuppies here in irvine ca, love to use them as beacons to their yuppie larva in movie theaters. When they start waving around there cell phones/back lit plams, and what not to find where there kids are sitting.. I like to whip out my parent's cell phone and wave it around with the back light to confuse the hell out of them. Its fun, cause i don't like them.
-- Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
parents and children?
by
tps12
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Parents and children don't need handhelds. I was all excited about handhelds a few years ago, but these days the only people still using them are CS grad students (not that there's anything wrong with that). I only keep mine around because my watch broke. Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point. Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.
--
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
When I heard Parents I immediately thought of people that are not technically inclined.
So, if we are looking to market an electronic device why the hell would you want to market it to people who are going to write their shopping list on the back of last week's grocery receipt?
And to market to kids? My calculator was stolen when I was in 5th and 6th grade (maybe 6th and 7th). Granted I wasn't taking the best care to make sure it wasn't in plain view outside of math class. Who's to say that this PDA should be brought to school?
They already banned TI-85 gaming, why wouldn't they ban PDAs as well? Holy cheating Batman.
If they are truly marketing towards Parents and Children, they are making a huge error.
Re:parents and children?
by
SealTit
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I disagree, they're widely used by CS undergrads as well:-)
But in all seriousness, handhelds are of great use and importance corporate america. I know many people that couldn't live for more than a day if they were disconnected from their Outlook contact list. While I agree that handhelds are worthless for children, and non tech-savvy parents, they do have a niche in society that uses them quite effectively.
Palm isn't going anywhere just yet, and if this this works out then they might even have an edge on the Pocket PC market.
Re:parents and children?
by
nullard
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· Score: 2, Insightful
When I heard Parents I immediately thought of people that are not technically inclined.... If they are truly marketing towards Parents and Children, they are making a huge error.
Because geeks never have kids, right? Geeks never have parents for that matter either.
Here's a hint: We are all our parents' offspring and many of us will (or already do) have kids.
My stepfather uses a palm for his real estate business.
Just because it is interesting technology doesn't mean that it is dificult to use either. Dead tree organizers sell well and there are themed ones targeted towards children. I saw a Harry Potter one a few days ago. Now tell me again why someone wouldn't want an inexpensive pda?
--
t'nera semordnilap
Re:parents and children?
by
bruanor
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I gotta say, I Completly disagree. Ive been a handheld user since the very first gen of Palm and have handed down several handhelds along the way. Any one common trait among everyone who has recieved one from me, or gotten on on my advice.. they become indespensible. They aren't the pet rocks of the 90/00's.. they are the wallets/phones/messengers/notpads of the future.
Re:parents and children?
by
shri
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Electronic shopping lists could be a real blessing for parents, specially those of young kids. Imagine putting your shopping list into your palm, then either syncing it with the grocery stores website or walking into the grocery store and beaming the shopping list to the store's computer. You can then sit at the coffee shop (more business for the store!) while someone packs your groceries for you and brings them over.
I am still hoping that GPS prices fall and there is a GPS that can plug into the Palm.. or perhaps a bluetooth based location detection system. This would allow you to program a 4 dimensional alarm system (location (X/Y/Z) + time). Imagine a $200 device which could be programmed as follows... "when you're out to lunch and walk past the video store, pick up DVDs for the weekend".
Pity no one listens to me.:)
Re:parents and children?
by
lpret
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· Score: 1, Redundant
Apparently your life isn't very busy.
I have had my Palm Vx since the week it came out when I was in the 8th grade, and it has not only become an important tool, but a necessity. I believe that the children that are being referenced are 13-18 year olds, as well as a nice cheap handheld for college students. We all know that kids are becoming over-involved and juggling many different roles is taxing and stressful on the child. For example, my Junior year of high school, I was class president, president of our schools Linux User Group (all 12 of us!), starting loose prop for our rugby squad, yell leader for our cheer squad, played bass in a band, took 4 AP classes along with the rest of my classes, and had a job with MTV. Now, if I didn't have my palm, I don't think I could have been able to do half of those. I was able to have all my class notes with me at all times (studying at odd times and any place), successfully organise my time, tune my bass guitar, read e-mails on the go, and just generally be more organised.
It is these kinds of students, of which we are seeing more and more, that Palm is finally marketing towards. And at 99 dollars, it's not that bad if it gets stolen -- mine was list at 349 when I bought mine, and I would get worried frequently:)
Now, one problem I see with this strategy is that Palm is going to get people interested in handhelds, but once the consumers see the other products which are clearly superior, they will quickly lose their new converts.
-- This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Re:parents and children?
by
ek_adam
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· Score: 2, Informative
I tried 3 or 4 shopping programs before I found one that really worked for me. HandyShopper is freeware and fantastic.
Re:parents and children?
by
Cutriss
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Electronic shopping lists could be a real blessing for parents, specially those of young kids. Imagine putting your shopping list into your palm, then either syncing it with the grocery stores website or walking into the grocery store and beaming the shopping list to the store's computer. You can then sit at the coffee shop (more business for the store!) while someone packs your groceries for you and brings them over.
Probably won't happen, for the same reason that a lot of good things don't happen - money.
If I program my list into my PDA and sync it to the grocery store, I probably about brands enough to also record which brand of something I want. That leaves it open to interpretation. Imagine the nightmare of having to resolve vaguely shopping items with a database of similar matches...50 times (an assumed average number of items for a shopping trip).
This means that, ultimately, certain brands would likely get weeded out, as they'd lose their shelf visibility, and thus their marketability. Price would soon be the only attracting option for those purchases...and you'd probably be a lot less inclined to invest in the purchase since you probably don't know the brand name (since you were never in the store to see it).
Also, stores don't just put on sales to attract customers to shop there. Sometimes it's a calculated risk. Let's say (fake numbers) that I have a $0.20 margin on a gallon of milk. If I lower the price by $0.10, and it sells three times as much, I've still made money. Most of us have been in college before...What happens when you see "8 for a dollar" ramen noodles? You stock up, right? If you don't ever go in the store to see the prices, you'll likely be a lot less inclined toward impulse purchasing of stuff like that. Also in the impulse-purchasing category, you wouldn't see some other things in the store that you would consider purchasing, only to let it sit in your pantry or fridge.
It's unfortunate that all this is the case, of course. It's rather likely that all these boosted sales would be outweighed by the cost-savings of implementing a fully-electronic store. Logistics would be a one-time expense...you'd need fewer staff...and costs would go down. Naturally, though, the corps only see things in terms of profit and growth...
-- "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Re:parents and children?
by
athlon02
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· Score: 1, Insightful
I disagree, I don't believe they're a pet rock. A PDA has the potential to be quite a few things along with what they already are: of course there's the organizer, internet, and cell phone features, then there's handheld gaming system (like a gameboy), digital photo album (partially what I use my handspring for), pager, eventually a video phone (I'm thinking something like from Zenon: Girl of the 21st Century, see here if you don't know what movie I'm talking about), a sub-notebook with gigs of space once magnetic RAM and such come out and drop in price, etc, etc.
Basically I see PDAs and laptops merging into what looks like just the LCD portion of a laptop, but that has all the ports you need to plug in peripherals, along with solid state drives (with MRAM, Flash, or whatever), plenty of RAM, and the latest and greatest processors so you can run Windows 2000/XP, MacOS X, FreeBSD, Linux, or whatever OS you want on. And of course the screen would be a touch screen with a pen so you could write documents in your own handwriting, if you so choose, or you could use your fingers with the onscreen keyboard (or plug one in if you absolutely need one). And as a matter of portability, the screen would be hinged in a few places to let you fold it up and put it in your pocket...
Sure that kind of stuff is still a ways into the future, but that's what I believe should happen and that would grab a reasonable chunk of the market, if done properly.
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
> Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be > remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and > early 00's.
Palm may be on its way out, but the PDA is a useful tool. I do not wear a watch, I do not have to carry my appointment book, I can keep track of phone numbers, and I can keep my to-do list. All very important stuff for me.
I think the PDA may get whacked by integration with cell phones, and (truth be told) I would love to have the new Handspring Treo PDA/cellphone combo once it gets somewhat cheaper.
The idea of a portable device to provide basic information management functions is an excellent idea. Is it useful for everyone? Well...no. Not everybody needs something like this to keep on top of their lives. I find it incredibly useful, and it has helped me to keep my life somewhat more sane than it would otherwise be. That, plus I can play Scrabble in the bathroom.
Re:parents and children?
by
shepd
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· Score: 0, Redundant
I thought like you too. Until I got a Palm.
I never realized just how much easier and simpler it makes college life (and, by extension, school life). It helps keep you on-time for assignments, on-time for tests, serves as a calculator you aren't going to lose, becomes a graphing calculator when you need it, or a scientific calculator at other times. It helps keep your expenses in line. And, most importantly, it reminds you when you have those all important TV shows to watch! I don't think I'd ever know all the professors' phone extensions without this thing...;-) And when you lose the TV remote, no big deal. Just point the palm at the TV!
Now I have one, I'm really happy I do. I think my life would be a whole lot more complicated without it.
-- If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Re:parents and children?
by
ChaosDiscord
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· Score: 4, Informative
Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point.
If that's why people are buying PDAs, of course it's going to wear off. And I do know a few people who bought PDAs for novelty value, or purchased one without quite knowing what they would use it for. Sure enough, these people stopped using their PDAs within a few months.
On the other hand, I knew exactly what I wanted a PDA for. I had been carrying a small datebook and pen with me. This significantly helped keep my life organized. It also provided me with a place to write notes (work todo items, shopping lists, reminders to email people information). I also kept contact information for various people, mostly phone numbers, in it.
On the down side, every year I got a new datebook. Any information I wanted from the previous datebook had to be manually copied to the new one. If my datebook was lost or damaged, any information in it was lost. The physical book didn't make it easy to reorganize the information, to collect the scattered notes to identify which are still relevant and which aren't.
I needed a smart datebook. And so I bought a Palm III.
My Palm was exactly what I needed. Appointments actually beeped to remind me. I could easily reorganize information without my address book turning into a message of scratched out information or pages thin from repeated erasing. I have effectively unlimited scratch paper for notes which I use to keep all sorts of useful information.
I'm on my third Palm (III -> V because I was sick of replacing the batteries and wanted a smaller palm, V -> Vx because I was starting to read e-books and needed more space). I use my Palm several times per day and I really value it. I know a number of people who feel the same way about their Palms.
PDAs are not just a fad. Sure, some people got them because of the fad, but I don't care about those people (in this context at least). There is a real market of people who value a good PDA. These people are the ones that continue to buy Palm (or PalmOS devices) over the various Windows based PDAs because they know that Palm got it right. Mostly people following the fad, people who don't know what they want, are drawn to the shiny Windows based PDAs. Many serious PDA users see no need for Palms to upgrade to ARM processors. Sure, more processing power would be nice, but my Palm does everything I need. I don't need games, I don't need video, I don't need MP3 support. I need a smart datebook, address book, and notepad that I can back up on my computer. The Palm does exactly this. I'm really frustrated at the superficial media which keeps reporting "Look at all of the advances in Windows PDAs, Palm hasn't advanced at all. Palm is on its way down." I know many serious Palm users, but I've never seen a serious PDA user with a Windows PDA. Serious users know that Palm gets it right, and Microsoft focuses on superficial glitz.
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
This doesn't even really need sales. I regularly
go to the grocery store thinking I need some
chicken and a half-gallon of milk and fumbling
up to the counter with my hands full (because I
didn't grab a cart, I was only getting 2 items)
$50+ of groceries. (oooo, oatmeal pies....)
The grocery store would probably lose a lot of
money if I could have just told someone to go
grab chicken and milk for me.
Re:parents and children?
by
Gorm+the+DBA
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· Score: 1
"We all know that kids are becoming over-involved and juggling many different roles is taxing and stressful on the child."
So rather than loading them up with a new gizmo to enable an even shorter childhood...why not just let the kids be kids?
No wonder ADHD is on the rise...we don't give children enough time to learn to concentrate on ONE task before they have to go off and put away the tuba because it's soccer practice time, then off to the sweatsh...err...McDonald's for your 6-10 PM shift...microwave dinner if you're lucky, and then you'd best hit your homework.
I recall being able to actually (whisper) play (/whisper) as a child...without obnoxious structure or schedule concerns other then "It's getting dark...time to come in". Perhaps we should reclaim those days.
Sorry but this isn't true. My Palm is an enormously useful thing to have around. I wouldn't make half the meetings and other deadlines that I must remember each week if the Palm weren't there to tell me. It also acts as an address book, notebook, alarm clock and more besides.
It was worth every penny to me and I don't see them as a fad at all. Clearly lots of people think the same way considering that there are more PDAs than ever on the market to choose from.
Personally I think PDAs will eventually 'converge' with mobile phones, mp3 players etc. but until the battery life and form factor of such hybrid devices (or PocketPC devices for that matter) comes anywhere close to my Palm, I'll stick with what I have.
Re:parents and children?
by
legLess
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· Score: 5, Funny
Blockquothe the poster:
I use my Palm several times per day and I really value it. I know a number of people who feel the same way about their Palms.
Does this even need a punchline?:)
-- This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
On the other hand, I knew exactly what I wanted a PDA for.
On the other hand there are people who bought a PDA neither because it is trendy, nor because they knew what it would do. I bought a used Palm III because I had some vauge idea that it would help me get orginised, keep phone numbers better then my cell phone maybe, and beep before meetings so I didn't miss them. And of corse if all else failed I could play hack (a rogue ancester) while I was standing around.
So here it is a good 5+ years later and I'm on my 3rd PalmOS PDA. It has definitly helped me orginise myself. I have also seen a lot of people buy them and fail to be helped, mostly because they decide what is important enough to put in the PDA and what they will "just remember" (and then promptly forget!). Not me. I've decided I can't remember squat. If I'm not about to do it right there and then, into the PDA it goes.
There is a real market of people who value a good PDA. These people are the ones that continue to buy Palm (or PalmOS devices) over the various Windows based PDAs because they know that Palm got it right. Mostly people following the fad, people who don't know what they want, are drawn to the shiny Windows based PDAs.
There is a real problem with that theory. It assumes all your customers know enough about PDAs to buy the right one. Someone else with a vague idea that a PDA might help them may well wonder into a store and buy the prettiest looking bright shiny object that says "PDA" on a box. Now you may decide they get what they deserve, a crappy PDA with a bright shiny box. However they have most likely picked their first and last PDA. If Palm had a good PDA to fit in a nice shiney box a lot of first time consumers might pick up the Palm for all the wrong reasons... and then the rest of their PDA buys will be for the right reasons.
Remember the number one law of bisness: don't argue with a fool, take his money
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It's called "Desperation"
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
As others have pointed out, yes, the novelty has worn off. However that doesn't mean that Palms are useless or that people will stop buying them entirely.
For example - at a previous job I was in charge of purchasing (we were a retail computer + network support shop). I had 10-12 vendors, to do lists, item needed lists, mileage (I was also a tech), customer contact lists, etc to keep track of. I ended up buying a Palm III - much smaller and easier to update than the binder I had been using. I used it heavily on that job and my next (network consultant). In my current job (network admin) I never turn it on. Why? I no longer need it - I don't do onsite stuff and I have a laptop with all my contact info in it. However, if I start having to do purchasing and inventory again I'll probably buy a new Palm - the new PalmOS 5 models that run on ARM are looking very nice. IF I can find a bluetooth adapter for my laptop I don't hate (I don't want a dongle hanging off the USB port or a bulky antenna sticking out of the PC Card slot)I may purchase one sooner - there are certainly times when I'm on the road and I don't want to lug the laptop around or when I'm "on call" and need information with me at a restaraunt or somewhere else where I'm unlikely to take my laptop.
Re:parents and children?
by
KillboyPHD
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· Score: 1
What happens when you see "8 for a dollar" ramen noodles? You stock up, right? If you don't ever go in the store to see the prices, you'll likely be a lot less inclined toward impulse purchasing of stuff like that.
Not necessarily true. A well designed interactive ordering app would be able to do all that. Hell, they could even arrange things by "aisle" (dairy aisle, cereal isle, produce aisle, etc.) with the "aisle-end-specials" promenantly displayed on your palm.
-- Bah weep granah, weep ninny bong!
Re:parents and children?
by
Oculus+Habent
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· Score: 2
I agree. The big issue people have with Palms is they don't want an organizer, they want a hand-held computer, but don't want to pay for a PocketPC.
A Palm/Handspring organizer is a great tool if you need an organizer. If you attend many meetings, communicate contact info to many people, track your expenses, appointments, etc.; then one of these is perfect.
If you wanted to play full motion video, MP3s, and browse web pages wirelessly, you'd probably be happier with a PocketPC, even though it's a little bigger, heavier, and more expensive.
-- That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
"Marketing this to people like parents and children"...Sounds like a pretty broad marketing spectrum, no? If I remember my anatomy course correctly, parents and children covers just about everyone...
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I'm not yet a parent but I'm very much glad I have my m500. I waited quite a while before buying any sort of PDA but now that I have, it's become quite a usefull tool. I actually am more organized with both the address book and the calander. I'm happy to be able to write notes to myself, and I'm finding a fare number of freeware programs to help me organize my hobbies a bit.
It really is a usefull tool, for me.
Now, with that said, I know a great number of people to whom the PDA is simply a toy. Either they don't want to learn to exploit it or they only ever wanted it to be a toy to begin with, I donno.
-- In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
Re:parents and children?
by
evilviper
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· Score: 2
Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.
Well, you've used nothing but crap, and complain that the whole genre sucks.
The reason Palms are not useful are that they have no keyboard (input is slower than pen & paper), and their apps are junk. Not to mention that B&W LCD screens are much easier to read (especially for long periods of time-or in sunlight).
I started with a WinCE device, and trashed that quickly... It's nothing more than a toy for bored teenagers that want games and MP3s.
Palms have the opposite problem... they are just glorified alarm clocks.
But, my experience with the crappy, slow, unstable WinCE machine showed me what was wrong with handhelds, and my next one would not have those problems.
So, I went with a Psion 5mx. 640x240 B&W screen (my eyes instanly felt better), with a keyboard large enought for most people to type on, but that's only the physical parts of it. The software is the best I've seen. Incredibly quick (on it's 32MHz processor it beat my 100+MHz WinCE) with FULL FEATURED office apps. It's work processor lets you bullet, choose several fonts, etc. You can embed cells from a spreadsheet, a graph, an image (or a drawing made an the Psion), or anything else. It has a built-in database that I use for large lists of contact information. It is constanly being given praise for having the best scheduler/task list around.
Besides that, it has a built-in vt100 terminal emulator, e-mail, etc. It not only comes with a great browser, but a full version of Opera is available for it (I believe it comes bundled in newer Psions).
Java apps run on it. Mindterm is popular, and there is even a native SSH client from SSH.com. There's a version of PGP available, that you can download. A version of xPDF ported to the Psion is freely available, and the same guy is working on a PDF distiller for the Psion as well. Tar, gzip and bzip2 have been ported to it. There's a BASH-like shell that runs on it, and EiC is freely available as well (run C source right on the Psion). There's an experimental JDK available too.
The Wide screen is much better than a tall narrow screen, and there's more, but I'm tired of typing. You can freely download their Epoc/Symbian development kit for windows (did I mention you can use GCC to compile apps for the Psion from Linux?)
So, as I've said a dozen times on/. before (and you've illustrated), Palms are glorified alarm clocks, and WinCE devices are toys. Psion/Epoc/Symbian devices are where the real handhelds are. They're definately made for serious work, not for playing around.
Amen. People look at me and my wife weird when our reply to "what's your kid in?" is nothing. Where we live if the kid isn't going to something every stinking night theres something wrong. The only thing my oldest (6 years old) wants to do is take piano when theres an opening with one of the local instrutors. Otherwise it's Play, Draw and whatever else there is to do till bedtime.
-- Who run Barter Town?
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Palms are glorified alarm clocks, and WinCE devices are toys
Oh come on. If you haven't played with Textmaker on a Handheld PC or Pocket PC, you are not qualified to judge the quality of Wince apps. Textmaker for Pocket PC, HPC
I'm not saying that this "gizmo" is actually forcing the kids to play and that by their not having them would "save them from the cruelty." I'm merely saying that it is a known fact that kids are becoming busier and busier, and regardless of what you do, they will only emulate what our society has placed so much emphasis on. As such, should we not support them in their emulation of us?
-- This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Re:parents and children?
by
evilviper
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· Score: 2
For one thing... I was primarily commenting on the terrible performance, and instability of WinCE itself. I was reloading my WinCE handheld from scratch, weekly... It was that easilly corrupted. In addition, the performance was terribly slow, making any real work, practically impossible.
The one killer app I see...
by
Docrates
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Is for those supermarket and logistics people that get to buy $800-$1200 rugged versions of palm for their inventory and tracking applications. Somehow I think that 10 cheap palm devices last longer than one expensive tough one.
--
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
Re:The one killer app I see...
by
Faggot
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Put a barcode reader on this, and you'll have proprietors of even small-time grocers in the (ahem) palm of your hand. Especially for the price of a few tanks of petrol.:)
--
But what do I know. I'm just looking for anonymous gay sex.
Re:The one killer app I see...
by
Kyaphas
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· Score: 2, Informative
You mean like this thing? They're kinda expensive, but I think they're exactly what you're talking about. I had to research them about 6 months ago or so, and if I remember correctly, the price is not too bad here in the states.
-- ----
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
-Thomas Jefferson
Re:The one killer app I see...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
you fail to realize the beating that that type of hardware goes through in that industry.
As a food distribution manager, if we don't have the commerical grade ranges, meat grinders, slicers, freezers, etc, we'd be breaking the equipment every other week.
Yeah, a $15,000 US Range seems a little steep when compared to a $700 Kenmore at Sears but the fact that it'll likely run without any problems if a fairly destructive environment for the next 7 years is money in the bank.
Also, downtime is critical. If they were breaking cheap palms on the job every other week compared to the rugged ones that likely can be dropped off a truck going 60MPH, lost time and money would sure add up quickly.
Re:The one killer app I see...
by
Triv
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· Score: 2
A friend of mine does exactly that at CompUSA. He uses a palm with a barcode reader to scan item barcodes and send them to a networked printer to print new price labels. Don't know exactly how it works tho.
Triv
parents /or/ chidren
by
Bandman
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· Score: 5, Funny
so just who exactly is/not/ a parent or a child? We are ALL children of SOMEBODY...
No Matter How cheap they make those things I'll never get one again. I need a to-do list to remind me to update my calander to set off an alarm when I need to write a memo. Just a waste of my time.
Re:Geez
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
They're good for phone/address books... easy to update... screw paper, it's easier to backup a palm than xerox your address book
the problem with Palms is that entering information is not convenient. The handwriting software is sketchy most of the time, and to use it is a pain compared to writing on a scrap of paper. And using small keyboards (if they exist) is not really comfortable...
Even my PHB can go to town with the Palm speech recognition. A few letters take some getting used to but its pretty decent.
Want to use a scrap of paper?
Use the 'note pad' function
Re:input devices
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
To each their own. When I write notes on a post-it, I tend to use graphitti glyphs if I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing. Palm's system isn't perfect. But I do find it rather easy to use and fairly elegant in most cases.
I've only had 2 krispy kremes this morning, give me a break. It's EARLY!
Re:input devices
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
dude, you don't even know if small keyboards exist (theydo), yet somehow you know they're not comfortable. I hope you put more effort into forming your other opinions...
(Yep, I've used a tiny keyboard and gotten quite good at it)
Not only do I find myself handwriting those glyphs, but I'm actually faster with graffiti than thumb keyboards. Two things that have improved my graffiti speed are a new stylus from Pentopia and Fellowes' WriteRight screen protectors.
Re:input devices
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Don't know about regular Palms but I have an Handera 330. It has PalmOS 3.5 with that Graffiti handwriting system + a small virtual keyboard on screen, which I like. It's fast enough for me to write... YMMV But 8megs of RAM isn't too much for that device, but it is easily added through two slots which take quite many different memorytypes. Backlight is Ok. although I rarely use it. And as a bonus it has Voicepad! Yes, a small microphone and small loudspeaker... Not too bad device.
My wife, my sister, my mother, my father, my brother-in-law, and my father-in-law use Palms (or Handspring Visors) on a daily basis. None of these people has any trouble entering data on them, and its been months since I've seen my wife make an error entering data. It's just not that hard to do. I use the things once or twice a month, and while I stumble once in a while, I find them perfectly usable.
My own PDA is a Newton MessagePad 120 (I have a 2100, but it's screwed up). No data entry problems there.
PDAs weren't intended to replace computers. If you use it as a word processor, you're going to be disappointed. If you use to replace an addressbook, to do list, notepad, etc, which is what they're really intended to do, they work great. I'm a graduate student, I keep all my research notes on my Newton, as well as deadlines and assignments. No problems so far.
what is it with silver
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JamesCronus
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· Score: 2
why is that more and more IT stuff has to be covered in that horrible silver effect plastic?
its not cool and it makes them look cheap, there are a lot of good laptops out there ruined by crappy silver oh_look_how_cool plastic. give me titanium anyday
but then at $99 it is quite cheap already.....
hmmmm, looks like you get what you pay for
-- dybia felly dwi a hampster
(i think therefore i am a hampster)
Linux?
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
What? A palm thing that is not targeted at Linux geeks? UFf.. that's so 90's.
http://www.myzaurus.com/
And no colo[u]r screen ...
by
Draoi
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· Score: 3, Funny
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
2 Meg of ram?
by
TheLoneCabbage
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· Score: 5, Insightful
With only 2 meg of RAM it's not going to be worth much more than an organizer. And you can buy those now for $20 (and some look much cooler than this).
Personaly for my tastes just sell me the husk, and let me buy the memmory as an option. I would think that a unit with NO memmory would be cheaper to manufacture and the modularity would allow it to have a wider market apeal (for the same manufactureing line).
2 MB will let you store all of your phone numbers, scheduling, etc, plus have a couple tetris or solitaire type games loaded, and have the front page stories on the NY Times every day via AvantGo. You could probably squeeze a map of Manhattan in (searchable by street name/intersection).
2MB on a Palm will hold a lot of functionality. This device is especially suited for anyone who regularly commutes on a train, or has other downtime where a game or Avantgo is a welcome distraction.
Re:2 Meg of ram?
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TheLoneCabbage
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Like I said, as an organizer it will do just fine. But little else.
Map and news paper cost me $5 at a news stand (especialy in Manhattan, and even then the maps are usually free).
I'm talking about real funtionality. If you had a low powered computer strapped to your hip at all times what would you want it to do? You have to justify spending $100, when $10 will do.
Beep when you had an apointment? OK, but there are hundreds of lowcost devices that already do that.
Keep phone numbers? See above.
Scribble notes? I prefer papper thankyou. It's more reliable (it only breaks when I get it wet, but so does a PDA)
What I really would want are things like:
Translators e-books (think library, or tech manuals, while you are on a job) wireless internet (IM, EMAIL, syncronicity with an Exchange server) Educational software (for those rediculously long trips) Telnet/http connections to a remote server (serve maintenance)
For the most part, you need much more expensive units to do this. And for the life of me I don't know why! It should be a cake walk to build a system that could let you plug in a wireless network device (isn't that why we invented USB?), or more memmory.
Why wouldn't it be cheaper to build a system that has NO features but is just an infastructure for plugged in addons?
Reading the Times on Avantgo is a lot more convenient than the paper version when you are standing on a moving train. Plus, you aren't carrying a paper with you all day for the commute home.
Regarding your map comment, what paper map lets you search for the intersection of Bedford and Barrow streets? It would take you at least 20 minutes to find the intersection unless you had been there before.
I cant say anything about beeping for appointments - I've already got too many things that beep. The things that you 'really would want' can already be done with a palm device. I don't see doing them with this 2mb $99 device though. Oh, I clean my palm with water.
Absolutely! I used a Palm Personal (with 1 meg of ram) for, like, 2 years (if I recall correctly). Worked like a champ. Lots of notes, appointments, several 3rd party apps (games, organizers, shopping databases, etc). It did everything I needed, at the time.
For $100, it's great. The target audience for the Zire doesn't want flash storage, MP3 playback, or video cameras. (at least, they don't *yet* know they want it). For people who want to keep all their addresses nearby, appointments handy, and christmas lists up-to-date year-round, this is perfect.
Let's look at this another way: The original Palm only had 512k of RAM -- and enough people thought those were useful that they spawned a whole new industry. Now they've got the same sort of system, with 4 times the memory, for something like a third of the price. Won't a whole new class of people find it just as useful as all the early adopters of the US-Robotics PalmPilots did?
2 MB RAM is simply to less, but the reason I will never buy this one is because its monochrome display.
This is a real step backward in evolution, I certainly don't need Zire's PalmOS 4.1 but almost all applications have color support or at least grayscale support today...
I'll stick to my Vx until there is a version with more RAM and a descent display.
Myself, I prefer a monochrome display quite a bit over a color.
For a few years, I used a Newton 2000u, a kick ass machine. For variousreasons, I sold my rad Newton setup and bought an iPAQ 3150 (darned cheap, at $150 with a CF sleeve!). The 3100 line is B&W. I was a bit weary of getting an iPAQ, because from the reviews of the 36xx and talking with friends, as the battery life of the color iPAQs is horrible. 3 hours. Or less. That's appaling. Luckily, the B&W iPAQ gets a good 20 hours of battery life, by virtue of its very readable monochrome screen.
But... one of the things that really bothered me about the iPAQ is the fact that the screen is tiny. So I sold the iPAQ and got a Jornada 720, hoping that the twice-as-large 640x240 screen would help ease the pain of leaving the Newton. And it does, a little, as long as you're inside a room with no natural light coming in. If you're outside, it's unreadable. As a biologist who has a fetish for doing quick analysis in the field as the data is entered, it makes the Jornada 720 worthless for too much of what I need it for.
Of course, there are some PDAs with reflective screens that can be read outside. The iPAQ 3600 series, for example. However, you still have the horrible battery life. Do most modern PocketPCs (PPC2k2) and color Palm OS devices have a similar reflective screen? Or do most have the unreadable ones?
Color sells to consumers though. They want flasher units rather than useful ones. It's a fact of life, but it still blows.:P Color screens just aren't practical for me. I imagine that most color PalmOS units get slightly better battery life than the PPC color units, but you're still stuck with the PalmOS and all of it's limitations. Yeah, I know, POS 5- but it ain't out yet, so it's not part of the picture.
I guess if you're the kind of person that likes to stay inside and watch TV, your PDA tethered to the wall with an AC adapter and the windows shut, color screens would be fine.
--
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I know that I am not an average PDA user, but for me, the cost of a PDA is as or more justifiable as a desktop machine.
What do I do with my Newton 2000u? (and have tried to do with a iPAQ 3150 and Jornada 720)
Development: I do NewtonScript development directly on the Newon with or without a keyboard. For creating first class apps, just like you would with the desktop dev tools. You can even get a GUI builder. On WinCE machines, I worked on Dynapad- a full Smalltalk environment in 6 MB, including a full-blown IDE and a bunch of PDA applications all extensible and modifyable directly on the PDA itself. (in addition to the built-in WinCE apps!) Of course, this it what *I* do, but there are ways to program in Perl (with Tk!), BASIC (with GUI builders), PocketC, Java, Python, ISLISP, Scheme and many more- see the Dynapad link below for a list of self-hosted PDA coding environments.
Communication:Email, IRC, web browsing, ssh/telnet. XML-RPC and SOAP clients for those like me who have various services for my own away-from-home use.
PIM Stuff Assumed, of course.:) I take all of my college lecture notes using real HWR (not Graffiti). And the drawings within the notes. Unlike paper, I can easily distribute copies of the notes, index and search them. Great for studying on a test- when I'm wondering about something, I can just tap "Find-" no wasting time paging through textbooks and paper notes.
And a lot more. But that includes most of what I do on a computer. Any computer, PDA or desktop or notebook. Also, I listen to mp3s on both PDA and desktop. If I can get Squeak working on the Newton (I will be porting it soon!), I will seriously consider whether or not it's worth it for me to keep my iBook 500 and OpenBSD P5 machine.
For the most part, you need much more expensive units to do this.
No, you don't. You could spend $100 on a Zire, with about as much power as a Ti-89 calculator.:P Or, you could spend $150 or so for a new (harder to find new now though!) iPAQ 3150/3135, with a 16 MB ROM, 16 MB RAM, 206 MHz StrongARM, and the CompactFlash sleeve. A real computer running a real OS, at least compared to the PalmOS. You could even put Linux on it if you wanted to impress your LUG. Or you could install QNX.
You can get used Newton MessagePad 2100s for less than $100 now a days, a 162 MHz StrongARM, 5 MB RAM, a luxurious 480x320 screen, good battery life and a lot of useful apps. 2 PCMCIA slots used for PCMCIA flash cards, ethernet, modems, 802.11b, or ATA/CompactFlash memory. Yes, you can use one of those 10 GB Toshiba PCMCIA drives in a Newton.
Why wouldn't it be cheaper to build a system that has NO features but is just an infastructure for plugged in addons?
Pervasive modularity comes at a fairly steep price. It's almost always cheaper to build something a Zire than a the Chipslice. The Chipslice is exactly this modular system you speak of, at least what I imagine you mean. Of course, it's not been released to anyone anywhere yet, but it does exist. It has old Palm-like hardware, unfortunately. Perhaps they'll ugprade the spec to something fast and ARM based by the time they release it, if they ever do. It runs Linux, which is a weakness at this moment, but at least it runs PicoGUI, which is an awesome display system that is fast and works on very little resources.
--
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Sorry, my message wasn't clear, Zire has a black & white display unlike all other recent models, which have a grayscale display (III, V, even m105 has one) if I interpret this comparison and Zire's Datasheet correctly.
Score++:P
You'd be surprised how far 2MB of RAM goes on a Palm. I have an m100 and there is still 1327K free out of the 2MB. And I'm not just storing my addresses and agenda on there...I have some little amusing games and toys on there. Tetris? Mahjongg? Frogger? Ask Daria? Present and accounted for.
After seeing more of the Zire, however, the more I like my little m100. The m100 has a backlight. The m100 has a hard plastic cover rather than the rubber mudflap...well, it HAD one before the darn thing broke off. No worries...I keep my m100 in a zippered case for protection. I don't even mind the battery use.
I might grab an m105 before they're gone and keep it boxed up for emergency replacement. I have grown to rely so much on little Chibi-Nuku here that if it broke I'd be absolutely lost. At least syncing is easy, quick, and thorough.
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Re:A few features of zire..
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
So essentially it's a Palm III in a new case (and without a backlight)? Nice to see how much Palm's low end PDAs have(n't) changed over the years.
You'd think that with Moore's law, economies of scale, and all that crap that we'd have something better than a 33Mhz, 160x160 greyscale non-backlit Palm by now. Sony's the only Palm OS vendor that has really made any improvements in Palm machines in the last few years.
In other Palm news
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Palm taps into pager networks By Ian Fried Special to ZDNet News October 8, 2002, 5:02 AM PT URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-961154.html PalmSource struck a deal Monday that will let new wireless handhelds running the Palm operating system take advantage of older networks designed for pagers.
The software and operating system unit of handheld maker Palm said it is working with Dallas-based WebLink Wireless to pave the way for Palm OS-based devices with the built-in ability to run on WebLink's ReFlex network. WebLink spokeswoman Lori Burzynski said that there are a number of companies licensed by Motorola to create devices that use the ReFlex standards and that one of them should have a Palm-based device on the market by the first half of next year.
Although much of the hype around wireless networks has centered on newer, high-speed data setups, there are some advantages to older pager networks like WebLink's. Such networks have broader coverage than many cellular systems and also work inside buildings, where cellular service is less reliable. They're also acceptable in places like hospitals, where cell phones are not allowed because of the possibility of interference with medical equipment.
"It's pretty pervasive," PalmSource vice president Albert Chu said of the ReFlex network. "It gets into places where cell phones and other (devices) can't."
Despite such advantages, the demise of pagers at the hands of cell phones has put a major crimp on the balance sheets of a number of wireless carriers that specialized in low-speed data devices like pagers.
WebLink Wireless itself emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization last month. Rivals Metrocall, Arch Wireless and Motient, have gone through similar processes. WebLink had planned to merge with Metrocall, but that deal fell apart, and WebLink is now an independent private company owned largely by its former creditors.
PalmSource was not deterred by WebLink's financial position, according to Chu, who said the company is in better financial shape as a result of its restructuring.
"I think they are emerging stronger than they were," Chu said. With the bankruptcy, "they are able to shed their past financial mistakes."
Networks such as WebLink's are capable of handling data suited to slower speeds--short text messages, for example--but aren't the preferred choice for delivering graphics or Web pages. But Chu said while such networks may lack the performance of newer ones, they can still offer some wireless access and a good value.
The deal with WebLink is the first time that PalmSource has negotiated directly with wireless carriers, but Chu said the company expects to do more work with carriers to make sure they understand the possibilities of working with the Palm OS.
It just looks like a vanilla dragonball black-and-white palmos device.
When I purchased my visor deluxe last summer for 200 $, I remember the 2 MB version was 100$, and the Palm concurrent was about the same price. I would have taken the Handspring anyway cause it's more 1337, but anyway, this is nothing new.
Can it run Linux?
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I am too lazy to look up what processor it uses, etc, does Linux run on it, (at all)?
If so, it's brilliant, because you could them as basic intellegent devices connected to desktop machines.
Anyone interested ?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Since this PDA doesn't run Linux and is not designed in a 3rd world country, I doubt many people here are interested.
ZIRE: an extinct language of New Caledonia
by
XNormal
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Comments: Zire is reported to be extinct. No mother tongue speakers. There are apparently a few who learned it as second language. Grammar. Extinct.
--
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Flamebait
For all these long years, I've resisted the lure of the handheld. Why? Because there haven't been good wireless features until recently.
So when I saw Palm introducing a new model, I looked breathlessly through the features... No Wireless.
Palm wasted more valuable time and RD $ again and no doubt will be soon eclipsed by Handspring or even (gasp) the pocket PC.
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
heytal
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· Score: 2
If you want better features, wireless etc, go and get the high end machines. This one is supposed to be a low level, without even backlights..
Moderator: why is the above post insightful ?
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
Mr.+No+Skills
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· Score: 2, Insightful
How much R&D do you think it took to place a Palm III in a new case?
-- Sleep is for the Weak
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
NMerriam
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· Score: 2
I doubt palm spent much R&D time on the Zire -- it's basically a Palm III in a new case with a rechargeable battery. The only thing new is the price.
Look at their Tungsten line for what you're talking about (or at the Sony Clies) -- they have built-in bluetooth, great expansion, MMC expansion, etc.
-- Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
Moofie
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· Score: 1
Dunno, getting rid of the backlight and the two buttons probaly took somebody the better part of an afternoon.
-- Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
naNoox
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· Score: 1
Maybe you need to look at the upcoming Tungsten line, which will include wireless services built-in. The Tungsten T is rumored to come with built-in Bluetooth, while the Tungsten W is a smartphone which uses GPRS/GSM networks; it is primarily data-centric (internet/email), but can function as a phone. The Tungsten models will be available on October 28th.
Nanoox
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
REDNOROCK
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· Score: 0
Hmm.. I'd say about $20. Ok maybe $35,.
-- Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
Re:You call this a STORY?
by
MrAl
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· Score: 0, Offtopic
Why not post that version here instead of complaining about it? That's what comments are all about...
From the specs (Dragonball EZ + USB) it aught to make a faily decent Linux unit. Perhaps you could even connect an USB kbd to it for proper typing (less portable though...).
By using Qtopia you could have proper hardwriting recognision too.
It's a shame that Palm insists on not letting the screen fill the entire front, but rather waste almost one third of the possible area with a static input area.
Re:Linux
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
No can do... this low-end unit has a mask ROM, no flash, so you couldn't install Linux on it even if you wanted to.
I think the last 2 MB RAM PalmOS device with Flash ROM was the Palm V circa 1998.
Here is a link to The Register article concerning the Zire, and covers the m105 (which can also sell for $99).
-- Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
I mostly use my Palm III for groceries
by
Adam+Rightmann
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· Score: 1
Sure, when I first got it I was excited by all the applications, but I soon grew tired of them and the small, 160x160 screen.
This ZIRE seems like a Palm III, except with a rechargeable battery, and no backlight. So, it's useful for lists, notes, and the occasional poorly ported game, but beyond that, it's mostly a novelty.
I agree with tps12, it's not very useful for children, I would suggest a much more useful handheld.
--
A. Rightmann
I just don't get it
by
i0wnzj005uck4
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· Score: 5, Informative
Okay. No backlight and 2 meg of ram. The Palm m105 has 8 meg of ram, and a backlight, plus that clock button and retails for the same price (I got mine for 10$ lower!) with identical features. Oh wait, the m105 also comes with the Office applications for spreadsheets and word docs on your handheld. Oh, and the m105 uses palmOS 3.5 while the Zire uses 4.1. But aside from that, the change is mostly cosmetic. Thoughts on this?
Palm currently offers the m105 model which is typically discounted to $99, but this is more full featured than the Zire. The m105 has a greyscale screen to the Zire's mono display
Re:I just don't get it
by
ashpool7
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· Score: 2, Insightful
The introduction of the M series for Palm was the beginning of the end for them.
* No compelling new features, minus the to-do/calendar view (which doesn't display alarms or notes)
* Switchable faceplates? Surely a sign that they've run out of *really* good ideas.
* Color? What about battery life? I thought Palm had proven color wasn't a must-have feature.
* Still-broken cradle drain problem.
* Wireless solution for the masses still not solved.
* SD/MMC Card that the technophiles already despised ("Secure" digital? We all know how much we like hardware that says that)
* m130: $250 un-upgradeable hardware. What a plan!
Palm just lost it. They had a dreat idea, ran with it, and then fumbled. Now CE is slowly replacing them. Zire just reaffirms that they still don't get it anymore.
Re:I just don't get it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Palm's market for this thing doesn't care much about stats, they wouldn't know how to interpret them anyway. And honestly, they will never fill that 2MB anyway. They will like the look of the Zire, though, a lot more than they'd like the look of the M100 series.
The big difference is for Palm. The Zire is much cheaper to produce than the M100 series. Those $100 M105s probably cost Palm $60 to make. A $100 Zire probably costs Palm $30 to make. Considering dealer markup, etc. Palm probably makes 3x more on a $100 Zire than a $100 m105.
Re:I just don't get it
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Zire is rechargable and the M105 is not, also M105 doesn't have expense where the Zire does. There are pros/cons to each unit.
Although I wouldn't second all of your remarks, you're mostly right.
Palm should have done the licensing deal sooner. IMHO Sony is the last innovator in the Palm league. Palm would be mostly dead without Sony.
If Palm had licenced their OS sooner, we could possibly enjoy a bunch of wonderful PDA/mobile phone combos. But Palm was closed those days and Nokia chose Symbian instead.
What a big strategic fault of Palm.
-- --
"As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
Good thing you're not massively biased against Palm, eh?
- I have a colour m515 and the screen is much clearer even for mono text than my old mono Palms/Handsprings. I don't really care too much about battery life, I just charge it every few days. As long as I don't go into the wilderness for days on end it's not a problem (and if I did, why would I need a Palm?)
- I've not had any problems with cradle drain
- wireless is dependent on roll-out of GPRS, CDMA2000, and WiFi, and on uptake of Bluetooth mobile phones. Palm can't do much about those, wireless has not taken off big-time on PocketPC either.
- SD/MMC works just fine in non-secure mode to store ordinary date - SD is about 4x faster than MMC, smaller than Compact Flash, can do I/O cards (with SDIO, like CF), and is non-proprietary and low-cost (unlike Memory Stick). I'm a technophile and I don't despise it - speak for yourself.
- m130 with non-upgradeable hardware (presumably you mean the OS is not in flash) - I prefer flashable devices myself, so here I would agree with you, but every Handspring before the Treo line was non-flash and they seemed to do OK.
I am not a huge Palm fan (currently trying to work around the sudden USB death syndrome that is not meant to affect m515s but does, stopping hotsync from working), and they have produced less exciting products than Sony, but they have done some things right, which is why I got an m515.
Cato,
"...currently trying to work around the sudden USB death syndrome that is not meant to affect m515s but does, stopping hotsync from working..."
If you're referring to the USB timeout problem, we had the same issue with ~200 new 515's distrubuted to sr. executives at their annual meeting this summer. Palm has a fix posted for the HotSync software that resolved our issue. I'd find the link for you, but I'm late for a meeting.
Hope that helps.
-- - If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? - Steven Wright
Yes, it will fit in that size memory. Lack of backlight is a bit of a problem, but anyone in the wilderness likely has a flashlight. You would likely prefer a red LED flashlight to the green backlight anyway, since it will tend to preserve your night vision.
Very interesting - had another look on the Palm.com site and on Palminfocenter.com, but couldn't find anything new. The Palm position is stated at http://www.palm.com/support/m50XUSBcradle.html - i.e. they say it only happens on m500/m505s with the old cradles. However, searching for 'palm usb timeout m515' and clicking on the PalmInfocenter link shows the real situation, i.e. that this can happen to m515s even with the new cradle.
If you could find the link, it would be much appreciated, as I can't find a software fix. It would need to be something that downloads onto the device - I already reinstalled the Hotsync software and the 'drain battery then restore from SD card' fix worked fine, so it's not on the PC side.
The only fix I know about is to replace the m515, and the only workaround is to drain the battery when it happens (twice in the last week or so).
> Palm just lost it. They had a dreat idea, ran > with it, and then fumbled. Now CE is slowly > replacing them. Zire just reaffirms that they > still don't get it anymore.
While I agree with most of your message, I would like to point out that there was a recent bit of news posted recently (like a week or two ago, though maybe not on slashdot) stating that PalmOS had increased market share over Windows CE on a year to year basis.
But, yeah, Zire is pretty crappy and does sort of insult the consumers.
Actually, I own a IIIe and have used a m105 for a couple months to test it out. Personally, I love Palm devices over CE, but I am pissed off that they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Battery life is important for the AAA users and people who don't like to have to recharge all the time. My IIIe lasts for a MONTH under good use. The m105 about the same.
Palm is a hardware company too. I expected them to roll out more IR->adapters->cell phone devices. Something that would integrate with the existing network other than building stupid limited-coverage limited-service networks.
Obviously you don't have cradle drain problems because you're using a rechargeable battery, which charges faster than it drains. While this problem may not exist in the pure USB versions of Palm devices, every serial device, including the rechargeables, experience this problem which has been known about since the original Palm Pilot, I belive. There are plenty sites out on the internet that tell you how to hack your cradle into not draining. It's a simple thing, *if* you're any good at electronics. The fact that Palm didn't fix this problem in the 'm' series just displays a lack of respect to their consumers
SD is just like Magic Gate Memory Sticks and Palladium. Sure they have open versions, but the potential exists to do great evil. Palm users are tech savvy. They can spot a trap a mile away. Palm should have gone with a more open format.
I made the comment about the 130 because of its cost. If they call $250 "affordable", then what's a couple more bucks to throw in flash.
I like Palm, I want them to do better, but they're not listening to the people who buy their products.
Palm has been around long enough that most people should recognize the marketing trend.
The PDA market is based on the idea of disposable computers. There are two kinds of consumers, the geeks like us and the mundanes. The geeks always want the coolest, newest thing, and will upgrade regularly. Of course, since PDAs are relatively dead-end disposables, "upgrade" means "buy a new one". The mundanes don't really know what they want, so they'll generally opt for the cheapest thing.
Palm respins its offerings every 9 to 18 months. The OS increments to make people think they're getting something new.
The new $99 thing is about the same as the old $149 dollar thing, except it's missing some key feature that all the geeks say is vital (What do you mean the m100 serial port is different and it doesn't have a cradle?), and includes some feature the geeks think is for wimps (Detachable faceplates?) but the mundanes always eat it up.
The new $149 thing is pretty much the old $249
thing.
The new $249 thing is pretty much the old $349 thing.
The new $349 thing has all the features that worked well in the old $399 thing, and none
of the stuff the flopped.
The latest and greatest thing that all the geeks are salivating over is still $399, but now it has wireless / bluetooth / color / card slot / more ram / bigger flash / integrated cellphone / a faster processor / whatever.
The typical consumer will pick a price point they think is reasonable, and replace their PDA when they think theirs is outmoded. Replacements come at a pace that makes the geekiest consumers happy. Hardware is just similar enough that most old software runs, but just different enough that the consumer thinks they're getting something hot and new.
This formula has worked well for them, and should surprise no one who's been watching the market.
Had a minute and found the link. It's an update for HotSync Manager 4.0. Take a look at the problem description section. If it looks promising, you can follow the "Next" link at the bottom of the page to download the update.
Here's the link (sorry, didn't have time to make it clickable) www.palm.com/support/downloads/40update.html
Let me know if that helps.
-- - If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? - Steven Wright
Thanks - I downloaded the update (for HotSync 4.0.1) and installed it even though I had 4.0.2. At the time of install, the hotsync was working, so it's hard to tell if this did anything - I suspect not, as the example of timeout given related to AvantGo etc, and I don't see how a Hotsync upgrade on the PC could make the USB chip in the Palm work.
One symptom of a working Palm (after battery drain) is that my PC (Win2K) discovers it as a new USB device, before Hotsync gets a chance to look at it.
There's a review here. According to the review, zire is amongst the lightest of the palm family.
Lack of innovation!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Appartently Palm is scared to try anything other than their proven formula.
I wouldn't mind the ugly design if the hardware inside was actually upgrading with it.
Do you realize that it's been -SIX- years since the first Palm shipped and we're STILL stuck at 16Mhz?! INNOVATE DAMN YOU!
two nice features
by
night_flyer
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
1) rechargable batteries 2) usb support
--
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Re:two nice features
by
Pulzar
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Exactly, I was surprised to see those two, which are usually only in more expensive units ($199+). A refurbirshed Visor Edge at $149 used to be the cheapest unit with rechargable batteries and USB.
If it had 4MB, I'd get one right now:(.
Anybody know any other PDAs with rechargable batteries, usb, and at least 4mb of ram at below $150?
-- Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
What exactly can you do with USB? Other than improve your HotSync time, what feature does USB on the Zire offer? Plug-in ethernet or 802.11b? I don't see those products anywhere. Personally, I wouldn't put USB support as a major plus to this device. Rechargeable battery yes.
check the screen out before you buy tho, or make sure you can return it. A lot of people dislike it. Also, the buttons aren't for gamers, but I find I rather like them.
-- cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
Thanks, that's exactly what I need. I do remember seeing it in a store and finding the screen to be very dim. I was hoping that was just a problem with low batteries.. I'll check it out.
-- Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
I think you can get a Palm m500 for $150 if you shop carefully. (I got mine for that on ebay from someone upgrading to a Sony.) Rechargeable, USB, 8 Mb.
All things considered, I'd rather have none of palm's usb port monitoring software on my usb ports. Sync over serial is fast enough as long as you aren't switching out several megs at a time. Besides, avantgo takes the most time during a sync.
Since it only has 4 buttons instead of 6, a lot of games for the palm pilot are not going to work properly on this thing. Maybe you could play zap2000! by remapping the power button (!) to fire and neglecting key number 6, but at the very least it'll be a pain.
If this thing is for consumers, games are important.
What a waste. This thing has no backlight (so you can't use it in the dark) and only 2 Mb (so you can't store
many documents or programs on it).
It's cheaper, but only by a few dollars, so
the lower price isn't much of a differentiator.
My PRIMARY utility for a PDA is
for electronic books, so this thing is worthless for me. I've found that the calendar/ phone book / to-do applications are fun but really aren't better than paper. I suspect that many others will come to the same conclusion.
They will need to drop the price significantly (say, to $5-$10) for this to be worthwhile.
If you know that a thing such as an e-book exists and can be downloaded to your PDA, you're not in the target audience for this device. If you have no idea what a PDA/Palm is, you're the ones they're going after with the Zire. I think it's great for this market -- it's cool, includes the basics, and it will run out of memory after they use it for a while, so they'll have to buy another one.
I do think it's foolish of Palm to introduce the Christmas-shopper model before the power user model (the Tungsten), because it draws exactly this sort of criticism. If they'd done the announcements in reverse order, we'd all be too distracted with Bluetooth to care about their pretty entry-level model.
This is not 1999, big guy
by
x+mani+x
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
Palms were always stupid expensive toys for dot com MBA's fat on VC cash, so they can beam their useless business cards to each other, like some kind of high tech mating ritual.
I bet more angry, layed off engineers are going to buy this thing to see what all the fuss was about. More than Little Billy and Soccer Mom Jane.
Still, I hope this thing tanks. Palms have and probably always will be obsoleted by pen and notepad.
I received a IIIxe in college about 2 years back for my IT course and I still use it for notes, addresses, games and even medical reference (Im an EMT).
I prefer the Palm over the Pen...saves trees and makes tree huggers happy.
Re:This is not 1999, big guy
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
plastic is made from oil which is processed resulting in a lot of hazardous gas by products, leading to global warming and the enlargement of the hole in the ozone laye... o crap, my argument is flawed...
give me a sec, i am sure i can come up with a good eco-flame as to why all technology is bad...
Whatever Happened to paper
by
ksplatter
·
· Score: 1
personally I prefer a notebook and a pen over a palm. For the following reasons:
1. The input device is easy. No need to learn some obscure language just to write a reminder.
2. No Batteries necessary
3. High Encryption level. nobody can read my handwriting.
4. Cost Efficient - $1
5. Highly moddable. Tell me about a palm that you can turn into a high performance air vehicle (paper airplane) or use to play a fast-paced game of football (paper football)
The possibliities are endless.
Re:Whatever Happened to paper
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
So are the hazards. No one ever died from a Palm crashing.
Re:Whatever Happened to paper
by
schussat
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· Score: 5, Funny
3. High Encryption level. nobody can read my handwriting.
You've clearly not used a Palm. It encrypts your handwriting on the fly!
-schussat
-- The hour of noon has passed. Let us go and get some Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Re:Whatever Happened to paper
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You've clearly not used a Palm. It encrypts your handwriting on the fly!
You've clearly not used a Palm. It does not encrypt handwriting. It encrypts a special alphabet of glyphs called Graffiti. Handwriting is typically cursive. Graffiti is not cursive. Graffiti looks a little bit alien and a little bit like handprinted letters. But it's -definitely- not anybody's handwriting. You are wrong. Now go play with your Etch-A-Sketch and let the grownups talk.
Re:Whatever Happened to paper
by
REDNOROCK
·
· Score: 0
I don't know whats funnier, this post, or it's parent! HA!
-- Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
Palm is splitting hairs. The OS is (sadly) the same, this despite the fact they bought out my beloved Be, Inc. All they are doing is trying to flood the market with a Palm for every budget, shuffling around memory sizes and CPU speeds, without really offering anything new. I mean, how much different is this Palm from the 105 or 115, etc etc etc?
-- So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
"Parents and children" is a bad example
by
PhysicsGenius
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· Score: 3, Funny
I think you are right, "parents and children" are unlikely to need to play "Wormz" at the mall--and if they do, they can use their cellphones. There's nothing on this $100 Zira that a normal (and free) cellphone can't provide.
However, I think the idea of a cheap PDA is a good one in another field. Many's the time I've been at a collegues desk and we'll get into a "debate" about the molar mass of yttrbium or what the fifth-order solution to Schrodinger's equation is. At times like these, when your geeky rep is on the line, it is absolutely essential that your have some firepower to back yourself up. A handy periodic table app, or some high-powered number crunching will save your pimply, fishbelly-white ass someday. $100 is not to much to pay for this piece of mind--and the sleek silver case doesn't hurt either!
Other kinds of grad students in different niches also use these.
There is a formulary and clinical drug database program that is very popular with young doctors and medical students. It's called ePocrates, and it updates itself automatically when you are online and you hotsync. This is very useful because the books are very heavy, and the info changes almost daily.
I'd say this is a genuinely useful application.
(I am not an employee of ePocrates. Just a friend of a med student.)
ePocrates is great, but it'll take up the 2mb of ram on this device. Sure its a great replacement for tons of books, but if you're going to carry around a pda shouldn't it do a little more?
I think the argument was against PDAs in general, not this particular 2MB PDA. Get a Cliè and a memory stick, and then 2MB is insignificant, so long as the application supports VFS. If this particular application is as useful as described, any extra costs are certianly justified for that kind of convenience.
BTW, I keep a local map of two surrounding counties, a dictionary, a complete calorie database, and several other very useful applications in my Cliè, and I still have 4MB free internal memory, and more than half of my 32MB memory stick memory free.
-- Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
Re:parents and children? (Flame Bait?)
by
Mr.+No+Skills
·
· Score: 2, Redundant
the only people still using them are CS grad students
This is a joke, right? I'm not a CS grad student, and my whole life is in my PDA. I now go on business trips with the PDA and not a laptop, since I can go a week without charging and use an attached keyboard. And, everyone else I see in my company is using them also -- they've replaced the "Day Runner" book.
Will parents and children buy these? Not for the sole function of being a parent or a child. But, anyone that wants to synchronize their 1000 address list on their computer with something that fits in their purse might want to spent $100 for this Palm device over the $500 for the WinCE device. And, they might happen to be a parent or a child.
LOL--thank you, W.:). My curiosity is getting the better of me--what is NDPTAL85? A microprocessor? Operating system? TTL chip designation? Inquiring minds want to know!
--
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Yes, the extra $50 for that Clie is certainly worth it for 8MB of memory and the 320x320 greyscale screen. And the memory slot. And the extra software.
Unless of course the new Zire becomes available for $79 in stores pretty quickly after introduction... that is a better price in my opinion for the Zire.
Of course, the Zire is meant to be cheap and small. Choose any two of cheap, small, features:D At least it looks reasonably good.
Looks like the main use of this model will be for people tippy-toeing their way into the handheld scene. It'd be great for people trying to shed paper and pen scheduling, and an excellent, cheap and convenient way to carry around email through Outlook sync. The only downside of this is the two megs of ram -- come on, RAM is CHEAP, they should have been able to put a full 8 in there or at least 4 for the same price. Oh well.
-- "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
come on, RAM is CHEAP, they should have been able to put a full 8 in there or at least 4 for the same price.
RAM also uses power all the time (PalmOS and most other PDAs use RAM as "long term storage" so it has to be powered all the time). At a guess the amount of power the RAM draws has a bigger effect on battery life for people that only turn the PDA on to check some apointments and turn it off (i.e. people that don't play games or take lots of notes on a PDA).
So sure, you could up it to 4M of RAM for almost no money, but then the battery life drops signifigantly. Or the weight and cost goes up as you add more battery.
Hey at least it's not as bad as it use to be where more RAM needed more CPU power to keep search times low (more RAM leads to the assumption that people put more stuff in the PDA...; but now even th elow end Palm CPU is decently fast for searching the amout of text people tend to keep in 8M).
Of corse there is the other issue...keeping the $99 model as berift of features as possiable makes the "upsell" simpler, and failing that may increse the cahnce that people will upgrade.
The only people?
by
Shook
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· Score: 2, Informative
Practially EVERYBODY in medical school has one, and most doctors do too. Of course, considering most medical references run 4 megs or more, this 2MB device need not apply.
Man they must have a lot of left over Palm Proffesional/Palm 3 PCBs, m100 and now this... lol.
-- Fighting for Peace, is like Fucking for Virginity.
See how far we've come!!
by
PeterChenoweth
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· Score: 5, Insightful
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.
Re:See how far we've come!!
by
Mr_Silver
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· Score: 3, Insightful
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
I argued this very similar point once on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot and got the following response:
In that time a top-of-the-line PalmOS device has gone from 160x160
monochrome with a 16 MHZ CPU, 4M of RAM and a unique internal
expansion slot... to 320x480 16-bit color with a 66 MHz CPU, 16M
of RAM, and an expansion slot that's shared with digital cameras
and MP3 players... the lightweight devices have gone from 160x160
monochrome with 16MHZ and 2M of RAM to 320x320 color with 33MHz
and 16M of RAM.
The operating system has added a new file system, a new network
stack, and a whole new collection of standard libraries... and it's
still backwards compatible and mostly forwards compatible with the
IIIx and V.
Meanwhile, the top-of-the-line Windows Powered device has gone from
240x320 8-bit color with a 70 MHz CPU, 16M of RAM, and a standard
CF expansion slot to 240x320 16-bit color, a 400 MHz CPU that's
not any faster than the previous 200 MHz one, 64M of RAM, and a
less capable expansion slot. The lightweight model has gone from
40 MHz to 200 MHz, 8-bit color to 16-bit color.
The operating system has changed the user interface incompatibly,
and added new drivers and applications.
So my figuring is that in the time it's taken low-end PPCs to cost
as little as top-of-the-line Palms used to, Palm's increased CPU
speed 4 times, display resolution 6 times, color depth 16 times,
and memory 4-8 times. Windows powered devices have increased CPU
speed 3-5 times, desplay resolution not at all, color depth 2 times,
and memory 4 times.
The operating system has had significant UI makeovers and new apps,
but the underlying functionality hasn't changed and some functionality
has actually been removed from the UI.
If you extend the timeline back to the first models, the differences
are even more striking. The first Palm only had 128K of RAM!
So don't tell me the Palm camp has been standing still, and expect
me to believe you have the vaguest idea what you're talking about.
Something to think about. Although having said that, I do think that Palm are dying a slow death. If OS 5 doesn't take off (and there is nothing radically different about the UI which will make most people go "oh, nothings changed") then they're going to be pretty much shafted.
-- Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Now, I for one like it when a company build cheaper devices (in price not quality) by making them easier to build not by taking features out of the device. The first one shows signs of smart research, the second takes customer for granted.
I'm afraid that's what's happening with Palm and their Zire. Features such as backlite, memory and speed are taken out so they can sell cheap. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking or new features from Palm in a long time. It seems they've stop R&D instead they produce a new models by juggling with existing features, tricking the customer into believing this is actually a brand new product.
Call me old fashion (maybe even out of style) but I still like to use my old paper agenda. Why? Simply because it's bigger, I can see my hole week in full size and I can write all sort of little notes (faster than a PDA) and comments anywhere on the page (including diagrams and sketches. I've tried several ones from the cheap to the expensive.
I have resisted ( and believe me the temptation climaxed with the iPaq... man was it hard to resist) the urge to get a PDA of my own simply because all I need really is something to keep my phone numbers and contacts in order and keep gazillions of passwords in a secure place.
Kids with Palms, kids with cell phones...whats next. Kids with laptops? I think we need to stop spoiling the younger generation...remember they have to take care of us when we are old and crusty. Giving a 5th grader a palm is silly...what do they need with a phone book anyway?
It's a nice move to a low end market, but will people really buy this as opposed to others which come with a backlight, non-rubberized screen and more than 2MB of memory and faster than 16MHz? For another 50 bucks, can I not get an industrial strength handheld? I mean if my friend was new to this whole thing, I would much rather recommend something for $150 which has 8MB...
I like the Li-Ion battery in the Zire. My biggest complaint about my current PDA is the short lifespan of the AAA batteries (which get expensive). I didn't see a car charger on the list of accessories but I'm sure they will have one.
As mentioned in previous posts, it only has 2MB of memory. For the average user this is fine. If I begin to run out of space I can simply sync with my PC and store what I haven't used in awhile.
The m105 is the same price for the more memory but uses AAA batteries, has an older PalmOS but has internet support. I'm suprised this feature isn't built into the Zire.
I guess the one thing that the Zire does have going for it is style. The m105 is pretty ugly:).
Admittedly, it might want a backlight for this, but why have a boring text-only built-in computer display when you could just dismantle this and mount it in your case? Bit of custom software on it and Bob's your uncle... At $99 (plus some tinkering) for a much more capable display than the standard cell-based LCD ones, this seems like quite a reasonable option.
Basically this thing will show up for us Canucks at the same price as the m105 and just slightly cheaper than the m125. I'd spend the extra 20 bucks and get the extras.
Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
dpbsmith
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Like others, I'm scratching my head at this if the price is really $99.
The Palm m105 really does cost $99. (A quick check at Yahoo stores shows: Palm Online Store $99.00; Circuit City $99.95; Datavision $99.94; BuyDig.com $90.00).
Maybe the Zire costs Palm much less and is sold to retailers for much less; and, as with some other products, maybe the price at Palm's store will continue to be $99, but street prices at the Best Buys, Staples, and Wal*Marts of the world will be much lower.
If the price were really $58.88 or $49.95 or "39.95 after $30 mail-in rebate" I'd buy one for my wife in an instant.
If you look at the list of PDAs on the Best Buy site, doesn't the thumbnail of the Zire look really ugly compared to the rest of them? I probably would be less inclined to buy that PDA based soley on that picture...
-- All my money went to Nigeria and all I got was this lousy sig. . .
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
djdead
·
· Score: 1
yeah, i checked pricewatch and only 1 vendor had the zire listed. that vendor (with whom i'm not affiliated in anyway) was selling them for $97. maybe in a month or two we'll see them for less.
-- -1: flamebait should really be -1: inciteful
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
kippy
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· Score: 1
I saw an m105 for 79.99 at the Palm store. it was an "open box" m105 though. Does anyone have any experence with "open box" products from Palm?
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
firewood
·
· Score: 1
The Palm m105 really does cost $99.
The m105 is *selling* for $99. To get an idea of what this product *costs*, remember that the m105 was introduced at a price of $250. It's selling now at what is probably a closeout price, with much lower profit margins all around. If the Zire follows the same product maturity pricing curve, it should be selling for under $40 somewhere around Christmas 2003.
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
azadrozny
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· Score: 1
I'd be careful with an open box Palm. Is it a floor model? People beat on them all day long. Make sure it's in good condition. You may want to consider buying a service plan with it, although that may negate the savings you get for it being open box.
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
loraksus
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· Score: 2
hmm, I got a palm m105 at office depot for $30 after $30 rebate, coupon and pricematch about 3 weeks ago.
Re:Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I don't think you should be saying IFF.. That means that If it makes sense, then the street price is lower, and If the street price is lower, then it makes sense. The latter is the one I'm assuming you mean, therefore, I think what you want to say is Makes sense ONLY IF the street price is lower.
Just thought I would correct the semantics of your statement.
Zire _is_ innovative
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
While I'm as frustrated as you at the lack of Palm's innovation (even the high end devices are bigger, heavier, and last less on a charge than the PalmVx, while having the same amount of memory and a marginal speed increase, all for a few hundred dollars more), Zire actually shows some innovation.
A Palm III was kind of expensive when it came out. The Zire has almost all the functionality of the Palm III in a smaller, lighter case. The innovation comes in the price: same stuff, much much cheaper. Instead of $300 it is $100. Palm probably (I hope) makes these things for about $20, in which case they should make a nice profit on every unit, even if it is discounted to $70 or so.
So, while Palm has failed to innovate on the high end (by failing to make better hardware for the high price), this low-end innovation (making the same low-end hardware much cheaper) is a welcome change.
Passphrase Locker
by
Enigmia+Man
·
· Score: 2, Informative
People have mentioned previously that they have no use for the Palm PDA. The best use for the Palm is as an encrypted passphrase locker. If this $99 palm came with that preinstalled, it would help lots of people keep their passphrases secure. Ever count how many different PINS, passwords, passphrases you need to have for all your accounts? It is staggering. I'll bet a lot of people use the same one over and over - a tremendous security risk. With an encrypted passphrase locker, (perhaps such as ccrypt or others ) it makes it easy to create a new one for each account. And it also allows you to make passphrases that aren't so easy to remember, such as "IH3ART/.OK?" What some folks don't realize is that their passphrases into web sites are completely readable by the admin. If they use the same one over and over, they are asking for trouble.
Re:Passphrase Locker
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
You remind me of a geek version of all those people in the 70s who said PCs were really great as devices to keep all your cooking recipies on. I wonder how many kids got a Vic20 after conning their parents with that argument.
While it's a valid point that admins can often read passwords it isn't always the case. Storing the hash of a password is a good way to keep your customers passwords safe from prying eyes.
I can see the ad campaign now...
by
theduck
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· Score: 1
...Treat yourself...Indulge your deZire...
-- How can we afford to ever sleep So sound again --ebtg
No flash ROM...
by
Opiuman
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Which means:
The Zire is not OS upgradeable... No Palm OS updates, nor Linux (not that you'd be currently able to cram Linux into a Palm's Flash ROM -- but that might change in the future). The information about this is not available in the online specs, only if you go to the feature compare chart are you able to learn this (almost at the bottom). Is Palm trying to obscure this information?
But I guess the target audience could care less about upgrading their OS. My guess is that they would care even less about a PDA in general...
Palm Sucks
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
This is the same Palm that they had in 1997 except with a rechargable battery. It only has a 16 mHz processor the Vx got a 20, and the new ones are at 33. Sony is producing Palm style PDA with 60mHz processors. Add 2 megs of Ram and another sucky Black and White screen and your back to the 90's when Palm's stock traded for over a $1/share. BTW look for a 20:1 reverse stock split on the 15th.:) Palm sucks.
Only major difference
by
banda
·
· Score: 5, Informative
The Zire is rechargeable like the old V series. The M105 uses alkaline batteries.
Personally, I prefer the alkaline batteries. I can buy new batteries anywhere. I can't always plug in a charger and sit around for a couple hours.
Re:Only major difference
by
stuartkahler
·
· Score: 1
Is it really that hard to pick up two sets of rechargable batteries and a charger to sit next to your palm cradle?
Re:Only major difference
by
palmpunk
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Thirty minutes of charging will give you days of use. Just plug it in one night a week and never worry about running out of juice.
Motorcycle vacation, 2 weeks on the road, camping every night. Took my palm and an alkaline battery powered mobile phone to check e-mail, and to telnet into my employers boxen when needed. Used much less space than a laptop, never required me to have access to AC. Sometimes disposable is better than rechargeable.
Re:Only major difference
by
Raptor+CK
·
· Score: 2
I'm usually not a big fan of disposable batteries, but there *is* a way around the rechargable problem for handhelds. Companies are releasing adapters that let you hook up a 9 volt battery. It's ugly as hell, but it can be a lifesaver. Google for it, if you care. I'm not sure if anyone's doing this for Pocket PCs, or if it would even work for those.
-- Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Hi,
Are you saying you tuned your bass using your Palm ?
I'm just starting on the bass myself, and I was wondering if you had anything to recommend Palm-wise ? I dunno, chord "cheat-sheets", something to store tabs and/or parts, etc...
Richard.
Head over to any of the large Palm software sites and there are Guitar and Bass programs for chords and tuning.
I use Palm Chord all the time on my Guitar when I am trying to figure out the best fingering for a given chord.
They were engineered that way.
by
stud9920
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
The people behind Palm had studies that showed that the greatest part of the market for palmtops are people that already have a desktop computer, a home computer, a laptop. Heck, with a price tag of hundreds of dollars to start with, only geeks and your boss could afford one, and only AFTER buying said devices.
Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?
That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.
Besides, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense are only the surface. You're free to add dozens of other little softwares. The Hacker's Diet. AvantGo, to cite a few.
If you want to whine about the lack of evolution in Palm devices, complain about the fact that batteries still last for about three weeks only.
Re:They were engineered that way.
by
radish
·
· Score: 2
Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?
That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.
I used to think that, then I bought a CE device for $250 (not $700!). With a 128mb flash card ($40) I can easily store an hour of video, if I want. To be honest I don't very often. I do use it for mp3s though, saves carrying another unit around. I play a lot of cool games on there, again, saves having to carry another unit around. So for $250 and one small device I replace your 3 devices costing ($150+$80+$200). Nice:) Add full colour (good for games, maps and photo editing) and web browsing, 802.11b, etc and you've got a pretty persuasive deal. Well it persuaded me to not replace my broken palm V.
Of course some things suck: (1) it's microsoft (2) it crashes more than palmos (3) the battery life is crap and (4) the box is a bit bigger. Take your pick, I won't be going back to palm in a hurry.
--
----
Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:They were engineered that way.
by
Kunta+Kinte
·
· Score: 2
Of course some things suck: (1) it's microsoft (2) it crashes more than palmos(3) the battery life is crap and (4) the box is a bit bigger.
the zaurus fixes 1 and 2. I guess 3 and 4 would depend on the particular unit you compare it too. You can get a zaurus for $350 some places. Plus add built-in keyboard, and CF slot *and* SD slot. I use the CF slot for communication while using the SD slot for addition memory.
I agree with you that a "handheld pc" has a lot of advantages, I can't see myself every going back to a regular palm. Music, movies, better games, emulators,... I use my zaurus *exactly* as I use by regular PC, with the same applications as my desktop, OpenSSH, XMMS, Opera ( ok, on my desktop I use mozilla ),...
-- Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
Re:They were engineered that way.
by
radish
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· Score: 2
Like I said, my PocketPC device cost $250 (Maestro), it also has both SD and CF slots. Bargain:)
I'd like to try the Zarus, but to be honest I'm just not convinced, mainly due to the small userbase==few thirdparty apps problem. I'll keep an eye on it though! A built in keyboard might be nice.
--
----
Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Re:They were engineered that way.
by
Tetsujin28
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· Score: 2
I'd like to try the Zarus, but to be honest I'm just not convinced, mainly due to the small userbase==few thirdparty apps problem.
I find this is more than balanced by the Linux==lots of OS software to be ported factor. I have yet to think of an app I'd like for my Zaurus that I can't download for little or no cost.
-- - - - -
The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
The Zire is all about focus
by
JonathanF
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· Score: 2, Insightful
I see the same criticisms repeated over and over: only the two buttons (not including scrolling), slower, less memory... but I think a lot of people are missing the point.
The Zire isn't a PDA in the "small computer with a stylus" sense. You aren't supposed to turn this into a game box or use it as a tiny replacement for an office computer. It's intended as an organizer - the fact that it has extra memory for one or two other apps (assuming you can get them to the Zire) and can sync with your computer is just a nice perk.
And the fact that Palm is marketing the Zire in a different way is also crucial. This is the PDA for people who might otherwise think of PDAs as expensive toys. It's the PDA you give to your mother as a Christmas gift, not something for the "mobile professional."
The only practical problem with it is a lack of backlighting. The monochrome screen is supposed to have a nice contrast, so this probably won't be trouble on the level of the Gameboy Advance, but you'd better hope you don't need to check your memos when you're on a nighttime bus.
Re:The Zire is all about focus
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Everything you write would be all fine and good, IF this Zire wasn't $99. $50 I could justify.
Reason being, you can get a similar organizer with backlight, 8 megs of memory (4X as much) for similary price, from elsewhere (129).
My T68i has this thing beat
by
DavyByrne
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· Score: 2, Informative
Why would I spend $99 on a monochrome, no-backlight Palm when I can get:
o 256 Color screen o Complete Calendar/Organizer/Todo/etc. o Contact Management o Wireless, always-on Internet access (GPRS) o Built-in IMAP and POP3 support o SMS, MMS, WAP o T9 text input (far faster than I could ever get with Graffiti) o Voice recorder o Voice control o Built-in Bluetooth and Infrared o SyncML for synchronization with my desktop o 4-5 days battery life o 1/3 the size/weight of a Palm o intuitive Joystick for menu navigation
Oh yeah, it's a cell phone, too. And I can use it anywhere in the world. And it was only $50 after various AT&T and Best Buy rebates.
Re:My T68i has this thing beat
by
pauljlucas
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· Score: 1
o 256 Color screen
You mean: 256 color screen not much larger than a postage stamp. Personally, I'm waiting for this.
-- If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Buy a used one Palm3 (and help the environment)
by
stuartkahler
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· Score: 2, Informative
Pick up a used Palm 3 on ebay for about $60 and two sets of rechargable batteries. All the people buying the newer color Palms are dumping their old Palms for dirt cheap prices. You'll have all of the buttons of a real palm pilot, maybe more memory, and you won't be contributing to the toxic gadget-fills that we Americans are creating with our products that could easily be used for 10 years, but get thrown away after 3 years because they aren't cool anymore.
I checked the prices...
by
puppetman
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· Score: 5, Informative
of this thing in Canada - $99 US, $169 CDN at Future Shop.
But I can get the Sony Clie PEG-SL10 with 4x the RAM, Palm OS 4.1, and a 320x320 screen (the Zire is 160x160) for $60 CDN more, plus a way nicer layout, etc.
This thing needs to be $60 US, $100 CDN. It's a rip-off at this price.
I'll give you $100 for it.:) These beasts costs $450 over here.
Yeah, that kills it for me.
by
TomatoMan
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· Score: 2
I was all set to buy one of these because I'm sick of the batteries dying in my palm III and all the sync problems I've had with the serial->usb adapter and big clunky cradle, but they're saying that if it's dark, I can't use the thing? Are they nuts?
Make a $109 version with a cheap little backlight and I'm all over it. I'm amazed they left this out.
-- --
http://frobnosticate.com
Re:Yeah, that kills it for me.
by
Locutus
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· Score: 2
TomatoMan, if you are in the US or CA, did you know that there's an easy solution to the battery problem you are having? A charger upgrade kit called Charge-N-Run makes the PDA charge on the cradle using a battery pack instead of disposable AAA batteries.
I heard that they're planning an upgrade kit very soon too and it'll work with almost all the PDA's out there using AAA batteries.
I've got one on my desk for my Palm VIIx and it works great. Had it since last year.
LoB
-- "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road
looks like roadkill to me."
--Linus
Re:Yeah, that kills it for me.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Palm m105 I believe is just a bit ovet $100 and Handspribg sells referbished Visor delux units at the same price.
No backlight, funky buttons and only 2 meg. I hate to say it but $100 seems a bit pricy for this thing.
Visor NEO was $90 at Target...
by
mekkab
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· Score: 2
throw in a couple of nimH batteries and you have 8 meg ram (expandable up to 16), grey scale with back light, on a dragonball ez (6800 assembly, makes hacking a joy)...
True, I don't think this is available at Target, but you can get new Neo's from E-bay for $80... Thats cheaper than the titanium case! (My secret super-hero power is the ability to break stuff, so yes I needed a case that costs just as much as the pda... if only to postpone the inevitable)
Uhm, why would I want a zire, again?!
-- In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I've been a long-time user of Palm devices. I have liked them, until last year.
Last year, I bought a m105. The plastic case is very poorly designed. In specific, the lid hinge always breaks after about 2-3 weeks of usage and carrying it in my pocket. After the lid is broken off, the screen gets all scratched up.
Palm has never fixed my lid problems.
I will never buy another device from Palm. (Investors, take note.)
I'll buy more PDA-type devices, but I'll get them from Handspring, TRA, or some other PDA vendor. Any PDA I buy must be fully compatible with Linux and OpenBSD, because I do not have nor use Monopo~1 products.
It's the American Revo clone with 16 megs of ram, keyboard, and rechargable built-in battery. Serial only, but you can find them under $100 when you can find them at all.
-- I'm the stranger...posting to/.
Way off OT, but...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Regarding your sig: Do you have over 1600 [slashdot.org] comments? Why Not?
A proverb from my 8th grade algebra teacher comes to mind... "Diarrhea of the mouth indicates constipation of the brain."
When you get to college, your pol. sci. teacher will explain to you these things:
- Explaining to someone that they shouldn't talk proves you aren't right.
- If you hide behind the shield of anonymity, don't expect people to take you seriously.
>Your pomposity has earned you a spot on the worst sigs on Slashdot list [bitey.net]. Mamma must be proud.
Sweet. Too bad the guy never bothered to read my journal...
Maybe I'll email him and ask him if he did.
-- If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Use rechargeable NiMH AA(A)s. I bought my Visor Neo over some of the other models because it did not have a built in battery. I wanted something that could live without a PC for a few weeks while on vacation.
I have two sets of rechargeable NiMH AAs. Cost $20. They charge overnight and last a couple of weeks with heavy use.
that is efficiency and keeping up with current technology, not inovation. As manufacturers can do bigger and better things, what they use to do becomes easier to do. Producing a 16MHZ chip for $3 each is easy when you have the technology to mass produce gigahert chips. Ram prices have gone way done, and B&W lcd displays are widely used and distributed via things like cell phones gameboys, pagers and so on. Whats really happened here is, palm has stayed behind the technology, and this has kept production coss gradually slipping down. Big fucking deal.
-- Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
Be guilt-free in your purchases! Buy what you want
by
NDPTAL85
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· Score: 1
NDP = North Dorm Projects. TAL = My initials. 85 = My football jersey number.
Does Sony wage a war on freedom? No. Does Sony legally do all they can to protect their intellectual property? Yes. I'm a grownup. As a grownup I can realize that money does not grow on trees and that it not only takes money to produce/make things but it also takes money to maintain them, or the systems that run their distribution/revenue chains. I don't have a problem going thru a bit of inconvienence to use a DRM equipped piece of technology if I know that it is helping the author/artist and anyone he has decided to share future royalties with, collect those roylaties. Furthermore Sony makes really cool stuff and I refuse to boycott them for some icky geek political reason. I guess it has something to do with an age/maturity thing. As one gets older they are able to see things from both point of views and don't just rebel simply for the reason of rebelling.
For the questions that are sure to follow, yes I am an actual human being. No I have not been paid by the MPAA/RIAA to astroturff. Yes I actually do believe in the things I say. No I am not lying. No I won't give you any money. Yes I enjoy burgers. No I don't understand what those last two questions had to do with anything. Yes I will stop typing now.
-- Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
"I know many serious Palm users, but I've never seen a serious PDA user with a Windows PDA."
My brother in law is an ardent M$ hater and refuses to use M$ products. He refuses to associate with people who use M$ products for serious computing. Consequently, his circle of contacts ends up being open source bigots that click away on their Palms.
People connect with each other based on factors of affinity. Many citizens of the/. community are biased toward open source and Anything-That-Isn't-Made-by-Microsoft ethics. Because these are two highly important values to them, these people will tend to form social and professional contacts around a preference for these ethics. In any social circle, there is always a tendency toward homogenity/conformity along the points of affinity. You and I tend to form relationships with people who are much like ourselves. In spite of all the PC rhetoric over the years, there is little diversity in our relationships when our relationships are formed with our most important values in view.
For this reason, the commenter above erroneously concludes that because none of the people he knows use Pocket PC units, the PocketPC unit cannot be taken seriously as a PDA. ChaosDiscord has failed to recognize that the Pocket PDA can indeed be considered a powerful and useful PDA because he has forgotten that his social circle does not represent the overall market for PDAs.
I have been using a PDA for five years and have had five different units. None of them were Palms because I didn't like the aesthetics or the functionality. Yet many people who I know and respect use Palms and love them. I also know many PocketPC user who also love them.
It seems that Palm is losing market share to the Pocket PC platform. I do not think that Microsoft will be able to do to Palm what it did to Netscape but I suspect that both platforms will enjoy sizeable segments of the market because of the strengths of each platform.
Most of us at/. are bigots and that's what makes IT and/. cool: there's a lot of passion and a whole boatload of variety to make for a very fun computing experience.
-- -Everyone laughs at lemmings but no one ever wants to admit to ever being one.
True, my social and professional circles limit my exposure to the overall population. My anecdotal evidence isn't statistically significant. But I don't think it's as limited as you suggest. My social and professional circles include a number of Microsoft fans, and of those Microsoft fans those who use PDAs prefer Palms over PocketPCs. One of the biggest Microsoft fans (and an ex-Microsoftie who only left to marry his wife), is a huge Palm fan and is very down on the several PocketPCs he has owned or worked professionally with. Not statistically significant, but probably a fair barometer opinion on these devices. If there is a noteworthy bias, it's that my social and professional circles are dominantly technical. I can't really speak for non-technical users.
All that said, it's a fair challenge, and I appreciate your bringing it up.
For this reason, the commenter above erroneously concludes that because none of the people he knows use Pocket PC units, the PocketPC unit cannot be taken seriously as a PDA.
Just to clairify, I take PocketPCs perfectly seriously. They are perfectly functional PDAs, and for certain uses are superior to Palms. However, I believe that for core PDA functionality (Address book, date book, memos, to do list, long battery life, simple interface, small size), Palms are superior.
My experience is different. At my company, all the palm users leave there palms sitting at there desks, occasionally using it to take notes while the pocketPC users carry thier devices around constantly makeing notes and scheduling meetings.
Sure. In something as inconsequential as preferences for platforms, bigotry is cool because it reveals passion for a bias. Everyone thinks their biases are right and make sense. If we didn't think our biases were right (if not even righteous), what sense would that make? We would be saying "Here's something that I really believe but I'm pretty sure it's fundamentally wrong."
Anti-MS bigots are passionate in their hatred for all things Bill. Radical environmentalists are passionate in their hatred for any encroachment on the environment. I don't personally agree with either form of bigotry but in the case of MS, it makes the discussion fun and interesting. In the case of environmentalists, their presence and efforts most likely mitigate the unchecked capitalistic impulse toward resource consumption.
Bigotry against races, genders, cultures and sexual orientation is decidedly not cool.Though, in light of my idea above, understandable.
- Everyone laughs at lemmings but no one ever wants to admit to being one.
-- -Everyone laughs at lemmings but no one ever wants to admit to ever being one.
Re:Be guilt-free in your purchases! Buy what you w
by
vegetablespork
·
· Score: 1
Since you agree with Sony, I wouldn't expect you'd have a problem with giving them money. I don't agree with Sony, so I do. Not much of a maturity issue there, just me making a choice in where I spend my money based on my beliefs.
Yes, you enjoy burgers, but, more importantly, with what toppings?
--
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Well you just mentioned Newspapers. Lets say instead of buying a newspaper every day at say, $.40 a day (averaging in weekend editions), you signed up for a free new service and synced the daily headlines and stories onto your new cheap Palm.
In just about 8 1/2 months the Palm would have paid for itself, and saved several trees in the process. (No idea how many fossil fuels were burned to recharge it though:) ).
I bought my 10 year old daughter a M105 for $49.00 online.. this is regular discount retail...
Why would I want to pay more for something that is less capable?
I can see it if they force the older stuff out of the market (require stores to ship them back for destruction instead of liquidation)
sorry palm.. make a better handheld that we want (Add a fricking CF slot... to hell with more resolution and color and whatever... use a much faster processor and add a damn CF slot to the back!)
-- Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Parents and children don't need handhelds
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Wrong answer, you-who-are-obviously-ensconced-in-acedemia-and-cl ueless-about-how-to-function-in-the-real-world. Any parent who needs to keep track of skating lessons and Webelos meetings and Girl scout meetings and gymnastics classes and art classes and cartoon classes and baseball/soccer/basketball schedules will find a handheld extremely handy. Furthermore, a handheld is good for parents with their own extra curricular activities, such as PTO meetings and theater set shop work. Then there's the shopping list thing, the myriad of phone numbers and birthdays.
And I'm not just making this up. The list above is small part of what's in my IIIxe.
I bet it takes off like crazy:
by
skintigh2
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· Score: 1
For reasons completely unknown to me, little pocket organizers are the coolest thing to my 13-year-old-sister-in-law-to-be. She was the first person I thought of when I read the announcement, her and her little friends playing IR BattleShip and beaming each other notes, or whatever the hell it is a 13 year old girl would do with a palm. Right now they all have cheap walmart electronic phone number organizers. Xmass...?
when i was a 'children'
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
when i was a 'children' i did not have $99. i had 99 cents, and i worried about whether to buy an SPST toggle switch, or a panel light, or wait till i could afford a DPDT toggle switch. the other children blew their dough on candy... which i was able to beg from my mom!
Nope. Clones, deities, demons and Dick Cheney all have to go buy a mXXX machine.
Re:target market...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Is fertility mandatory at age 18 where you live, or what?
Re:target market...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
read it again - everyone fits into one of those catagories. everyone.
Yes, its obvious
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
"Thoughts on this?"
My thought is that Palm is run by a bunch of people who think consumers are stupid.
In truth the guys running the place are a bunch of fucktards.
If you consider the palm IIIc was the high point of their product line, it gives you a real clue as to their lack of plans are.
They should have had bluetooth 18 months ago.
Instead, its left to Sony to innovate for palm.
Like I said, they're a bunch of fucktards at palm.
Yeah but...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
"There are pros/cons to each unit"
The trouble is the Zire has way more cons than pros.
Its old technology dressed up as new.
Palm has lost its freaking mind. Its too bad the only alternative at this point is Windows CE, because Windows CE sucks.
I like palm, but you're wrong
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
If Palm had put bluetooth in their devices they would have been seen as visionaries. Instead, they look like they're pushing 5 year old technology.
Windows CE devices are winning because of backlighting, color, and connectivity options. The palm is growing increasingly isolated.
The palm line peaked with the IIIc. I've bought a bunch to use because only the new Sony Clie is close to it, and its $600!!!!!!! Holy cripes. Who spends $600 on an organizer?
Anyway, the 505 sucked ass. And the 515 sucked slightly less ass. I mean you like it, its fine. But the screen quality should go up as the models get more advanced.
Amen
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Its no use telling it to the true believers. They use their palm in odd little ways and then act as if 99% of the world is weird.
Why?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
http://handspring.com/outlet/index.jhtml Factory refurbished Visor Deluxe $99, Neo and Platinum $119. Now why would I want a 2 meg Palm for $99?
Zire isn't meant for YOU(in my best Dexter voice)
by
krinsh
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· Score: 1
I have a m105. No color, no real fancies, no nothing. I *bought* a cool Krusell leather case and my wife got me some other things for it including a keyboard for taking faster notes in meetings and stuff. I want to learn how to make apps for it [to build a better grocery list maker!] but that will not happen for a while longer. I don't want a "Pocket PC" or multifunction device that lets me make phone calls or play MP3s while waiting for my kids to secure themselves in the car. Some people need or want the extra functionality; I'm happy with what I've got. Will I get a 125 or 130? Maybe; if I decide I want to use some of the cards they have for them and the 500s and, shucks, maybe have Color at some point. I really don't need it so I won't pay an extra $100 for it - yet.
Will I get a Zire for a couple of people I *know* could use one but otherwise would not buy themselves a PDA? Maybe. Kudos to Palm for trying to appeal to a wide market spectrum and possibly get more people using these nifty little things. My m105 has been a great addition to my personal electronics stockpile.
-- I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
Zire.. New? Affordable? Ha!
by
QangMartoq
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· Score: 1
Palm should be fined for flooding the market.
(But then we'd have to fine AOL too.. Wait.. Maybe that's not such a bad idea...)
Anyway. 3 years or so ago I bougt a Sharp OZ640 organizer from a friend that was upgrading to a Sharp Zaurus. I paid $20 USD for the OZ640, and it had 512k ram if I am not mistaken.
It still serves me today, taking down memos (it has a built in QWERTY keyboard), keeping track of appointments, tracking contact information, and expense reports. It even has a backlight (one of those blue Indiglo ones where the whole screen lights up blue). To sync it, I just plug it into a small base station (which plugs into a 9 pin serial port), open the HotSync software on my PC, and press 'Sync' on the OZ640.
As for durability? It is a clamshell design where the screen folds over the keyboard when not in use. I have yet to damage it after 3 years of use. And here's something that will make those of you that use Palms weep. The OZ640 runs on 2 standard AAA batteries. I change the batteries about once a month when the icon appears at the bottom of the main screen. And that's considering my usage of the machine, which is daily, sometimes several times a day.
It may not be 'upgradeable', but it serves me well as it is now, has done so for years, and hopefully will continue to do so for many more.
The new high-level Palms come out at the end of the month.
One is a 16MB Palm "Tungsten T" with a hirez color screen, bluetooth, a 175mhz Arm Processor, Palm OS 5, headphone jack, SD slot, and Bluetooth. And a telescoping shell that closes up to cover the Graffiti area, fwiw.
The other is the "Tungsten W" which is the new wireless model, which is kind of like the next-gen version of the Handspring Treo, except that it's made by Palm, and it's not a handset (it uses a headset jacked into the unit for cellphone conversation). Also Palm OS 5, same processor.
It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.
Only if by "slow death" you mean continuing to totally dominate their market and expand into new market segments. My guess is the Zire will be a big hit in the high school market that will lead to even more sales in the years to come as Zire users upgrade to newer more powerful Palms.
Jon Acheson
-- All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
Re:This is an entry-level Palm.
by
Eight+01
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· Score: 1
Actually, the Tungsten W is not Arm or OS5 based. It will use a 66mhz dragonball and OS 4.1.
Perhaps the T combined with a bluetooth phone would be the way to go.
There are other reasons people don't use PDAs sometimes; my problem with Palms has been that traditionally...they're big. I had a Handspring Visor Deluxe when they first came out, and while I loved the PDA overall, it was just bulky. When I didn't have my purse with me, I couldn't really fit both the Visor and my cellular phone into my jacket easily. After a while, though the Visor was useful, I stopped using it and just carried the cellular phone. Eventually sold the Visor to a friend. Now I've got one of the Kyocera Palm PDA-phones, carry it everywhere, and I find I use the PDA a lot more.
As for PocketPCs...personally, I prefer Palm for the functionality, but I do know some serious PDA folks who use PocketPCs, to be fair. Our IT manager here has an iPaq because he can stick an 802.11b wireless card into it and load it with network administration software, and administer things from anywhere in the office. A former co-worker used his iPaq as a portable MP3 player and document reader nearly constantly.
Don't underestimate PocketPC. 3Dfx did that with Nvidia and ATI, believing they had the better platform and no one would ever top them, and they sat on their laurels for too long and turned to add serious innovations far too late; the little pretenders had taken the crown. (Hint hint, Palm: time to release start getting PalmOS 5 onto devices. The screenshots look nice!):)
-- --Rachel
Creating Market Differentiation Stupidly
by
billstewart
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· Score: 2
What's the difference in cost between 2MB and 8MB? Probably about $6, and it really affects the usability of the machine if you're a geek, because it affects whether you have to decide whether to install something. With 8MB, you're almost never out of space unless you've got lots of E-Books. With 2MB, you can do the basics, and all the address lists you want, but if you want to carry around E-Books or get a particular Avantgo channel or whatever, you need to see if you've got enough memory. (I've stopped commuting by train, so I no longer bother with Avantgo, but it was really nice to have a mix of newspapers on my Palm.)
Even 4MB would have helped a lot, if the difference in cost really affects their profit margins. Sigh.
--
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Lithium Ion Rechargable Battery
by
Enzo1977
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· Score: 1
Although the price given to the Zire is grossly out of proportion to the options that are available on the M105 at the same price, or the m125 for 30 to 50 dollars more, I've found sole reedeming aspect of the Zire to be its Lithium-Ion Battery. My past experiences with this type of battery have been nothing short of spectacular. Whether the battery type is being used in my cel-phone or on a camcorder it is entirely hassle free. For example with older camcorders you had to make certain the battery was depleted entirely, if not when you would recharge the battery what ever usage remained, would be lost in the battery's life there after. I essence the lithium-ion battery a memory free battery that you can recharge at the end of the battery's life, or 5 minutes into its usage time and not fear ruining its performance. Although many of you make strong comparisons the options that are lacking in Palm's Zire model, the Lithium-Ion battery is a big step towards making a hasle-free PDA.
-- I hate all sigs, even this one.
not a handheld worth drooling over..
by
KeelSpawn
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· Score: 1
With a 16-Mhz, monochrome screen, and a 2 MB of memory, this looks like we've traveled back in time. The Handspring visor dlx came out in year 1999 and beats the Zire (although zire has a rechargeable memory). One other thing is no expansion..which greatly limits what your handheld can do. However, this might be one of the dream handhelds for kids or junior high / high school students. With built-in apps, a Palm OS of 4.1, rechargeable battery, and a price of $99, this isn't too bad (for a student).
These things are getting cheap enough that it's worth getting one simply to handle a single ebook (eg. ePocrates or Universalis) - and the cost of the machine plus the cost of the content is still less than the cost of a paper equivalent. Then you can have a completely separate device for use as a PDA, with backlight, slots, and anything else you need.
Kids these days have gotten accustomed to a torrent of information (internet, TV, computer games,...) to the point that ADD/ADHD is very common. I would think adding yet another channel for them to receive information would make kids these days would only make the situation worse.
--
--
Frank Hsueh, frank.hsueh@gmail.com
It's not just about capacity
by
JonathanF
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· Score: 1
Ah, but there's certain things you're neglecting that make all the difference with the Zire (at the risk of sounding like a salesperson).
First: the Zire uses a lithium-ion battery, not alkaline batteries like the m105, m125 or Sony's Clie SL10. Those latter batteries are going to need replacing often - maybe not at an insane frequency, but enough that the "average" person may not see the cost as being worthwhile. The li-ion battery is supposed to let the Zire go for weeks without a recharge, and a recharge only takes 2 hours.
The Zire, I understand, also has a plastic screen, not glass - and there's a carrying case included. Very handy when you're selling the Zire to people who aren't necessarily going to treat a PDA delicately.
I believe there's been statistics shown (check a site like palminfocenter.com as they may refer to them in their Zire review) that indicate that $99 is the "magic number" when it comes to sales, too. Many people are supposed to buy something at $99 that they wouldn't otherwise, even when they could have obtained it before (or obtained something better) for $30-50 more. I guess you could call it the "Wal-Mart factor..." people see the price, and react more strongly to that than the feature set.
Not sure if it's worth the price; It's just better to get an older PDA for about the same price. For example, go look on pricewatch.com You can get a IIIxe (8mb, b+w, backlight) for $100 or a IIIc (8mb, COLOR, LiIon battery) for $120.
As for me, I got an HP Jornada 525 for $170. (this was almost exactly a year ago) I got 16 megs, 320x240 color, and a 133 MHz SH-3. Yes, it does run on Pocket PC; however, anti-Microsoft sentiments aside, it's not a bad thing. I can play Doom, Quake, emulate Gameboy, NES, listen to MP3's, watch MPEG video. I have a scaled-down version of Emacs, and can compile LaTeX documents and view the resulting DVI files. I can put 128 megs onto a $40 CompactFlash card. Files are easy to put onto it; unlike PalmOS, it uses a real filesystem and it's trivially easy to copy files over. I can even use my Linux box to do so. using a USB CompactFlash adapter.
Try looking into older PocketPC's; they might be cheap and trust me, they're really not that bad. Otherwise, get an older Palm or Visor. $100 for this is not worth it.
And no, I am NOT trying to troll or flame.
If the tool does what you need, why change it?
by
RighteousIndignation
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· Score: 1
So we should stop buying hammers just because the design hasn't changed in decades? Or, to run the tool analogy into the ground, should we stop using screwdrivers just because power drill/drivers are available?
Last year I bought a 2MB M100. And with PC-mentality, I installed every demo and shareware app that would fit onto it. Guess which software I use regularly? Only the programs included with the unit.
I am not a grad CS student.
by
jotaeleemeese
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· Score: 1
And was not when Palm first came out, I keep my trusty Palm always with me. Ditto my wife.
On top of the standard organizer stuff I keep my current correspondence chess tournaments, Palmasutra (which has come handy in many ocassions;-) ), Metro for underground maps of cities I visit regularly, Secret! for encrypted data, a terminal emulator for emergencies in the server room, Quartus Forth for a bit of fun programming, and yes, games (amongst many other apps used as and when needed). I have to charge the thing only once a week, my older Palm III could go for a couple of weeks with rechargable batteries...
If Palm is going down it is not for lack of features or uses, the current economic situation could explain the situation better (If you need a PC, a printer and a Palm you most probably will leave the Palm at the end if you are short of money).
The growth-decay formulas were developed in the trivial fashion by Isaac Newton's famous brother Phigg. His idea was to provide an equation that would describe a quantity that would dwindle and dwindle, but never quite reach zero. Historically, he was merely trying to work out his mortgage. Another versatile equation also emerged, one which would define a function that would continue to grow, but never reach unity. This equation can be applied to charging capacitors, over-damped springs, and the human race in general.
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
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This thing doesn't have a backlight.
Parents and children don't need handhelds. I was all excited about handhelds a few years ago, but these days the only people still using them are CS grad students (not that there's anything wrong with that). I only keep mine around because my watch broke. Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point. Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Is for those supermarket and logistics people that get to buy $800-$1200 rugged versions of palm for their inventory and tracking applications. Somehow I think that 10 cheap palm devices last longer than one expensive tough one.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
so just who exactly is /not/ a parent or a child?
We are ALL children of SOMEBODY...
it's probably too early....
Check out my sysadmin blog!
No Matter How cheap they make those things I'll never get one again. I need a to-do list to remind me to update my calander to set off an alarm when I need to write a memo. Just a waste of my time.
the problem with Palms is that entering information is not convenient. The handwriting software is sketchy most of the time, and to use it is a pain compared to writing on a scrap of paper. And using small keyboards (if they exist) is not really comfortable...
why is that more and more IT stuff has to be covered in that horrible silver effect plastic? its not cool and it makes them look cheap, there are a lot of good laptops out there ruined by crappy silver oh_look_how_cool plastic. give me titanium anyday but then at $99 it is quite cheap already..... hmmmm, looks like you get what you pay for
dybia felly dwi a hampster (i think therefore i am a hampster)
What? A palm thing that is not targeted at
Linux geeks? UFf.. that's so 90's.
http://www.myzaurus.com/
Thank goodness ...
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
With only 2 meg of RAM it's not going to be worth much more than an organizer. And you can buy those now for $20 (and some look much cooler than this).
Personaly for my tastes just sell me the husk, and let me buy the memmory as an option. I would think that a unit with NO memmory would be cheaper to manufacture and the modularity would allow it to have a wider market apeal (for the same manufactureing line).
I would rather be ashes than dust!
It has no backlight.It has date-book, address-book, memo-pad, and to-do-list manager. Also has a calculator, a palm expense program, and a clock.
A good review at techtv.com.
Palm taps into pager networks
By Ian Fried
Special to ZDNet News
October 8, 2002, 5:02 AM PT
URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-961154.html
PalmSource struck a deal Monday that will let new wireless handhelds running the Palm operating system take advantage of older networks designed for pagers.
The software and operating system unit of handheld maker Palm said it is working with Dallas-based WebLink Wireless to pave the way for Palm OS-based devices with the built-in ability to run on WebLink's ReFlex network. WebLink spokeswoman Lori Burzynski said that there are a number of companies licensed by Motorola to create devices that use the ReFlex standards and that one of them should have a Palm-based device on the market by the first half of next year.
Although much of the hype around wireless networks has centered on newer, high-speed data setups, there are some advantages to older pager networks like WebLink's. Such networks have broader coverage than many cellular systems and also work inside buildings, where cellular service is less reliable. They're also acceptable in places like hospitals, where cell phones are not allowed because of the possibility of interference with medical equipment.
"It's pretty pervasive," PalmSource vice president Albert Chu said of the ReFlex network. "It gets into places where cell phones and other (devices) can't."
Despite such advantages, the demise of pagers at the hands of cell phones has put a major crimp on the balance sheets of a number of wireless carriers that specialized in low-speed data devices like pagers.
WebLink Wireless itself emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization last month. Rivals Metrocall, Arch Wireless and Motient, have gone through similar processes. WebLink had planned to merge with Metrocall, but that deal fell apart, and WebLink is now an independent private company owned largely by its former creditors.
PalmSource was not deterred by WebLink's financial position, according to Chu, who said the company is in better financial shape as a result of its restructuring.
"I think they are emerging stronger than they were," Chu said. With the bankruptcy, "they are able to shed their past financial mistakes."
Networks such as WebLink's are capable of handling data suited to slower speeds--short text messages, for example--but aren't the preferred choice for delivering graphics or Web pages. But Chu said while such networks may lack the performance of newer ones, they can still offer some wireless access and a good value.
The deal with WebLink is the first time that PalmSource has negotiated directly with wireless carriers, but Chu said the company expects to do more work with carriers to make sure they understand the possibilities of working with the Palm OS.
It just looks like a vanilla dragonball black-and-white palmos device.
When I purchased my visor deluxe last summer for 200 $, I remember the 2 MB version was 100$, and the Palm concurrent was about the same price. I would have taken the Handspring anyway cause it's more 1337, but anyway, this is nothing new.
I am too lazy to look up what processor it uses, etc, does Linux run on it, (at all)?
If so, it's brilliant, because you could them as basic intellegent devices connected to desktop machines.
Since this PDA doesn't run Linux and is not designed in a 3rd world country, I doubt many people here are interested.
ZIRE: an extinct language of New Caledonia
SIL code: SIH
Region: Bourail, coastal plain.
Alternate names: ZIRA, SIRHE, SICHE, SÎSHËË, NERË
Classification: Austronesian, Malayo-Polynesian, Central-Eastern, Eastern Malayo-Polynesian, Oceanic, Central-Eastern Oceanic, Remote Oceanic, New Caledonian, Southern, South, Zire-Tiri.
Comments: Zire is reported to be extinct. No mother tongue speakers. There are apparently a few who learned it as second language. Grammar. Extinct.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
For all these long years, I've resisted the lure of the handheld. Why? Because there haven't been good wireless features until recently.
So when I saw Palm introducing a new model, I looked breathlessly through the features... No Wireless.
Palm wasted more valuable time and RD $ again and no doubt will be soon eclipsed by Handspring or even (gasp) the pocket PC.
Why not post that version here instead of complaining about it? That's what comments are all about...
From the specs (Dragonball EZ + USB) it aught to make a faily decent Linux unit. Perhaps you could even connect an USB kbd to it for proper typing (less portable though...).
By using Qtopia you could have proper hardwriting recognision too.
It's a shame that Palm insists on not letting the screen fill the entire front, but rather waste almost one third of the possible area with a static input area.
Here is a link to The Register article concerning the Zire, and covers the m105 (which can also sell for $99).
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
This ZIRE seems like a Palm III, except with a rechargeable battery, and no backlight. So, it's useful for lists, notes, and the occasional poorly ported game, but beyond that, it's mostly a novelty. I agree with tps12, it's not very useful for children, I would suggest a much more useful handheld.
A. Rightmann
Okay. No backlight and 2 meg of ram. The Palm m105 has 8 meg of ram, and a backlight, plus that clock button and retails for the same price (I got mine for 10$ lower!) with identical features. Oh wait, the m105 also comes with the Office applications for spreadsheets and word docs on your handheld. Oh, and the m105 uses palmOS 3.5 while the Zire uses 4.1. But aside from that, the change is mostly cosmetic. Thoughts on this?
- Cloud
There's a review here.
According to the review, zire is amongst the lightest of the palm family.
Appartently Palm is scared to try anything other than their proven formula.
I wouldn't mind the ugly design if the hardware inside was actually upgrading with it.
Do you realize that it's been -SIX- years since the first Palm shipped and we're STILL stuck at 16Mhz?!
INNOVATE DAMN YOU!
1) rechargable batteries
2) usb support
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Plus, then the little lady is expecting, some of the more acrobat positions are challenged.
Unmarried, adulterous fornicating folks please ignore this post.
A. Rightmann
Since it only has 4 buttons instead of 6, a lot of games for the palm pilot are not going to work properly on this thing. Maybe you could play zap2000! by remapping the power button (!) to fire and neglecting key number 6, but at the very least it'll be a pain.
If this thing is for consumers, games are important.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
When some enterprising young geek (or geekette) puts linux on the thing, installs Apache, puts the unit on the WWW and posts the Eureeka! on /.
From everyone's perspective "It was worth the effort"
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
My PRIMARY utility for a PDA is for electronic books, so this thing is worthless for me. I've found that the calendar/ phone book / to-do applications are fun but really aren't better than paper. I suspect that many others will come to the same conclusion.
They will need to drop the price significantly (say, to $5-$10) for this to be worthwhile.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Palms were always stupid expensive toys for dot com MBA's fat on VC cash, so they can beam their useless business cards to each other, like some kind of high tech mating ritual.
I bet more angry, layed off engineers are going to buy this thing to see what all the fuss was about. More than Little Billy and Soccer Mom Jane.
Still, I hope this thing tanks. Palms have and probably always will be obsoleted by pen and notepad.
personally I prefer a notebook and a pen over a palm. For the following reasons:
1. The input device is easy. No need to learn some obscure language just to write a reminder.
2. No Batteries necessary
3. High Encryption level. nobody can read my handwriting.
4. Cost Efficient - $1
5. Highly moddable. Tell me about a palm that you can turn into a high performance air vehicle (paper airplane) or use to play a fast-paced game of football (paper football)
The possibliities are endless.
Palm is splitting hairs. The OS is (sadly) the same, this despite the fact they bought out my beloved Be, Inc. All they are doing is trying to flood the market with a Palm for every budget, shuffling around memory sizes and CPU speeds, without really offering anything new. I mean, how much different is this Palm from the 105 or 115, etc etc etc?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
However, I think the idea of a cheap PDA is a good one in another field. Many's the time I've been at a collegues desk and we'll get into a "debate" about the molar mass of yttrbium or what the fifth-order solution to Schrodinger's equation is. At times like these, when your geeky rep is on the line, it is absolutely essential that your have some firepower to back yourself up. A handy periodic table app, or some high-powered number crunching will save your pimply, fishbelly-white ass someday. $100 is not to much to pay for this piece of mind--and the sleek silver case doesn't hurt either!
Other kinds of grad students in different niches also use these.
There is a formulary and clinical drug database program that is very popular with young doctors and medical students. It's called ePocrates, and it updates itself automatically when you are online and you hotsync. This is very useful because the books are very heavy, and the info changes almost daily.
I'd say this is a genuinely useful application.
(I am not an employee of ePocrates. Just a friend of a med student.)
the only people still using them are CS grad students
This is a joke, right? I'm not a CS grad student, and my whole life is in my PDA. I now go on business trips with the PDA and not a laptop, since I can go a week without charging and use an attached keyboard. And, everyone else I see in my company is using them also -- they've replaced the "Day Runner" book.
Will parents and children buy these? Not for the sole function of being a parent or a child. But, anyone that wants to synchronize their 1000 address list on their computer with something that fits in their purse might want to spent $100 for this Palm device over the $500 for the WinCE device. And, they might happen to be a parent or a child.
Sleep is for the Weak
You can get a sony clie with that bucks ... )
( 8megs, hi res
Looks like the main use of this model will be for people tippy-toeing their way into the handheld scene. It'd be great for people trying to shed paper and pen scheduling, and an excellent, cheap and convenient way to carry around email through Outlook sync. The only downside of this is the two megs of ram -- come on, RAM is CHEAP, they should have been able to put a full 8 in there or at least 4 for the same price. Oh well.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Practially EVERYBODY in medical school has one, and most doctors do too. Of course, considering most medical references run 4 megs or more, this 2MB device need not apply.
Man they must have a lot of left over Palm Proffesional/Palm 3 PCBs, m100 and now this ... lol.
Fighting for Peace, is like Fucking for Virginity.
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.
Now, I for one like it when a company build cheaper devices (in price not quality) by making them easier to build not by taking features out of the device. The first one shows signs of smart research, the second takes customer for granted.
I'm afraid that's what's happening with Palm and their Zire. Features such as backlite, memory and speed are taken out so they can sell cheap. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking or new features from Palm in a long time. It seems they've stop R&D instead they produce a new models by juggling with existing features, tricking the customer into believing this is actually a brand new product.
Call me old fashion (maybe even out of style) but I still like to use my old paper agenda. Why? Simply because it's bigger, I can see my hole week in full size and I can write all sort of little notes (faster than a PDA) and comments anywhere on the page (including diagrams and sketches. I've tried several ones from the cheap to the expensive.
I have resisted ( and believe me the temptation climaxed with the iPaq... man was it hard to resist) the urge to get a PDA of my own simply because all I need really is something to keep my phone numbers and contacts in order and keep gazillions of passwords in a secure place.
--Vuzz
Kids with Palms, kids with cell phones...whats next. Kids with laptops? I think we need to stop spoiling the younger generation...remember they have to take care of us when we are old and crusty. Giving a 5th grader a palm is silly...what do they need with a phone book anyway?
It's a nice move to a low end market, but will people really buy this as opposed to others which come with a backlight, non-rubberized screen and more than 2MB of memory and faster than 16MHz? For another 50 bucks, can I not get an industrial strength handheld? I mean if my friend was new to this whole thing, I would much rather recommend something for $150 which has 8MB...
As mentioned in previous posts, it only has 2MB of memory. For the average user this is fine. If I begin to run out of space I can simply sync with my PC and store what I haven't used in awhile.
The m105 is the same price for the more memory but uses AAA batteries, has an older PalmOS but has internet support. I'm suprised this feature isn't built into the Zire.
I guess the one thing that the Zire does have going for it is style. The m105 is pretty ugly :).
Name someone on this earth who isn't a parent or someone's child.
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
Admittedly, it might want a backlight for this, but why have a boring text-only built-in computer display when you could just dismantle this and mount it in your case? Bit of custom software on it and Bob's your uncle... At $99 (plus some tinkering) for a much more capable display than the standard cell-based LCD ones, this seems like quite a reasonable option.
Basically this thing will show up for us Canucks at the same price as the m105 and just slightly cheaper than the m125. I'd spend the extra 20 bucks and get the extras.
Like others, I'm scratching my head at this if the price is really $99.
The Palm m105 really does cost $99. (A quick check at Yahoo stores shows: Palm Online Store $99.00; Circuit City $99.95; Datavision $99.94; BuyDig.com $90.00).
Maybe the Zire costs Palm much less and is sold to retailers for much less; and, as with some other products, maybe the price at Palm's store will continue to be $99, but street prices at the Best Buys, Staples, and Wal*Marts of the world will be much lower.
If the price were really $58.88 or $49.95 or "39.95 after $30 mail-in rebate" I'd buy one for my wife in an instant.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
While I'm as frustrated as you at the lack of Palm's innovation (even the high end devices are bigger, heavier, and last less on a charge than the PalmVx, while having the same amount of memory and a marginal speed increase, all for a few hundred dollars more), Zire actually shows some innovation.
A Palm III was kind of expensive when it came out. The Zire has almost all the functionality of the Palm III in a smaller, lighter case. The innovation comes in the price: same stuff, much much cheaper. Instead of $300 it is $100. Palm probably (I hope) makes these things for about $20, in which case they should make a nice profit on every unit, even if it is discounted to $70 or so.
So, while Palm has failed to innovate on the high end (by failing to make better hardware for the high price), this low-end innovation (making the same low-end hardware much cheaper) is a welcome change.
People have mentioned previously that they have no use for the Palm PDA. The best use for the Palm is as an encrypted passphrase locker. If this $99 palm came with that preinstalled, it would help lots of people keep their passphrases secure. Ever count how many different PINS, passwords, passphrases you need to have for all your accounts? It is staggering. I'll bet a lot of people use the same one over and over - a tremendous security risk. With an encrypted passphrase locker, (perhaps such as ccrypt or others ) it makes it easy to create a new one for each account. And it also allows you to make passphrases that aren't so easy to remember, such as "IH3ART/.OK?" What some folks don't realize is that their passphrases into web sites are completely readable by the admin. If they use the same one over and over, they are asking for trouble.
...Treat yourself...Indulge your deZire...
How can we afford to ever sleep
So sound again
--ebtg
Which means: The Zire is not OS upgradeable... No Palm OS updates, nor Linux (not that you'd be currently able to cram Linux into a Palm's Flash ROM -- but that might change in the future). The information about this is not available in the online specs, only if you go to the feature compare chart are you able to learn this (almost at the bottom). Is Palm trying to obscure this information?
But I guess the target audience could care less about upgrading their OS. My guess is that they would care even less about a PDA in general...
This is the same Palm that they had in 1997 except with a rechargable battery. It only has a 16 mHz processor the Vx got a 20, and the new ones are at 33. Sony is producing Palm style PDA with 60mHz processors. Add 2 megs of Ram and another sucky Black and White screen and your back to the 90's when Palm's stock traded for over a $1/share. BTW look for a 20:1 reverse stock split on the 15th. :) Palm sucks.
The Zire is rechargeable like the old V series.
The M105 uses alkaline batteries.
Personally, I prefer the alkaline batteries. I can buy new batteries anywhere. I can't always plug in a charger and sit around for a couple hours.
This is the same as a Palm V with a different case. Go on e-bay and get a Palm V for about $75.00.
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
Hi, Are you saying you tuned your bass using your Palm ? I'm just starting on the bass myself, and I was wondering if you had anything to recommend Palm-wise ? I dunno, chord "cheat-sheets", something to store tabs and/or parts, etc... Richard.
The people behind Palm had studies that showed that the greatest part of the market for palmtops are people that already have a desktop computer, a home computer, a laptop. Heck, with a price tag of hundreds of dollars to start with, only geeks and your boss could afford one, and only AFTER buying said devices.
Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?
That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.
Besides, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense are only the surface. You're free to add dozens of other little softwares. The Hacker's Diet. AvantGo, to cite a few.
If you want to whine about the lack of evolution in Palm devices, complain about the fact that batteries still last for about three weeks only.
I see the same criticisms repeated over and over: only the two buttons (not including scrolling), slower, less memory... but I think a lot of people are missing the point.
The Zire isn't a PDA in the "small computer with a stylus" sense. You aren't supposed to turn this into a game box or use it as a tiny replacement for an office computer. It's intended as an organizer - the fact that it has extra memory for one or two other apps (assuming you can get them to the Zire) and can sync with your computer is just a nice perk.
And the fact that Palm is marketing the Zire in a different way is also crucial. This is the PDA for people who might otherwise think of PDAs as expensive toys. It's the PDA you give to your mother as a Christmas gift, not something for the "mobile professional."
The only practical problem with it is a lack of backlighting. The monochrome screen is supposed to have a nice contrast, so this probably won't be trouble on the level of the Gameboy Advance, but you'd better hope you don't need to check your memos when you're on a nighttime bus.
Why would I spend $99 on a monochrome, no-backlight Palm when I can get:
o 256 Color screen
o Complete Calendar/Organizer/Todo/etc.
o Contact Management
o Wireless, always-on Internet access (GPRS)
o Built-in IMAP and POP3 support
o SMS, MMS, WAP
o T9 text input (far faster than I could ever get with Graffiti)
o Voice recorder
o Voice control
o Built-in Bluetooth and Infrared
o SyncML for synchronization with my desktop
o 4-5 days battery life
o 1/3 the size/weight of a Palm
o intuitive Joystick for menu navigation
Oh yeah, it's a cell phone, too. And I can use it anywhere in the world. And it was only $50 after various AT&T and Best Buy rebates.
T68i
Pick up a used Palm 3 on ebay for about $60 and two sets of rechargable batteries. All the people buying the newer color Palms are dumping their old Palms for dirt cheap prices. You'll have all of the buttons of a real palm pilot, maybe more memory, and you won't be contributing to the toxic gadget-fills that we Americans are creating with our products that could easily be used for 10 years, but get thrown away after 3 years because they aren't cool anymore.
Not a bad looking unit for the price.
THAT'S what SHE said. [rimshot]
Just raise the taxes on crack.
of this thing in Canada - $99 US, $169 CDN at Future Shop.
But I can get the Sony Clie PEG-SL10 with 4x the RAM, Palm OS 4.1, and a 320x320 screen (the Zire is 160x160) for $60 CDN more, plus a way nicer layout, etc.
This thing needs to be $60 US, $100 CDN. It's a rip-off at this price.
I'll give you $100 for it. :)
These beasts costs $450 over here.
I was all set to buy one of these because I'm sick of the batteries dying in my palm III and all the sync problems I've had with the serial->usb adapter and big clunky cradle, but they're saying that if it's dark, I can't use the thing? Are they nuts?
Make a $109 version with a cheap little backlight and I'm all over it. I'm amazed they left this out.
-- http://frobnosticate.com
throw in a couple of nimH batteries and you have 8 meg ram (expandable up to 16), grey scale with back light, on a dragonball ez (6800 assembly, makes hacking a joy)...
True, I don't think this is available at Target, but you can get new Neo's from E-bay for $80...
Thats cheaper than the titanium case! (My secret super-hero power is the ability to break stuff, so yes I needed a case that costs just as much as the pda... if only to postpone the inevitable)
Uhm, why would I want a zire, again?!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I've been a long-time user of Palm devices. I have liked them, until last year.
Last year, I bought a m105. The plastic case is very poorly designed. In specific, the lid hinge always breaks after about 2-3 weeks of usage and carrying it in my pocket. After the lid is broken off, the screen gets all scratched up.
Palm has never fixed my lid problems.
I will never buy another device from Palm. (Investors, take note.)
I'll buy more PDA-type devices, but I'll get them from Handspring, TRA, or some other PDA vendor. Any PDA I buy must be fully compatible with Linux and OpenBSD, because I do not have nor use Monopo~1 products.
It's the American Revo clone with 16 megs of ram, keyboard, and rechargable built-in battery. Serial only, but you can find them under $100 when you can find them at all.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Regarding your sig:
Do you have over 1600 [slashdot.org] comments? Why Not?
A proverb from my 8th grade algebra teacher comes to mind...
"Diarrhea of the mouth indicates constipation of the brain."
Your pomposity has earned you a spot on the worst sigs on Slashdot list. Mamma must be proud.
Motorola Dragonball EZ 16MHz Processor
My Handspring Visor Prism (which is old) has a 33MHz processor in it.
Then again, they are pitching it as just a souped up Day Planner replacement...
-T
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
I got a Handspring Visor Prism for my birthday. One night, I show my wife Bejeweled. I want my PDA back..I really do.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Use rechargeable NiMH AA(A)s. I bought my Visor Neo over some of the other models because it did not have a built in battery. I wanted something that could live without a PC for a few weeks while on vacation.
I have two sets of rechargeable NiMH AAs. Cost $20. They charge overnight and last a couple of weeks with heavy use.
"At $99 dollars (retail), it looks like they're trying to market this thing to people like parents and children."
That just about covers everyone, doesn't it?
that is efficiency and keeping up with current technology, not inovation.
As manufacturers can do bigger and better things, what they use to do becomes easier to do. Producing a 16MHZ chip for $3 each is easy when you have the technology to mass produce gigahert chips. Ram prices have gone way done, and B&W lcd displays are widely used and distributed via things like cell phones gameboys, pagers and so on.
Whats really happened here is, palm has stayed behind the technology, and this has kept production coss gradually slipping down.
Big fucking deal.
Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
NDP = North Dorm Projects. TAL = My initials. 85 = My football jersey number.
Does Sony wage a war on freedom? No. Does Sony legally do all they can to protect their intellectual property? Yes. I'm a grownup. As a grownup I can realize that money does not grow on trees and that it not only takes money to produce/make things but it also takes money to maintain them, or the systems that run their distribution/revenue chains. I don't have a problem going thru a bit of inconvienence to use a DRM equipped piece of technology if I know that it is helping the author/artist and anyone he has decided to share future royalties with, collect those roylaties. Furthermore Sony makes really cool stuff and I refuse to boycott them for some icky geek political reason. I guess it has something to do with an age/maturity thing. As one gets older they are able to see things from both point of views and don't just rebel simply for the reason of rebelling.
For the questions that are sure to follow, yes I am an actual human being. No I have not been paid by the MPAA/RIAA to astroturff. Yes I actually do believe in the things I say. No I am not lying. No I won't give you any money. Yes I enjoy burgers. No I don't understand what those last two questions had to do with anything. Yes I will stop typing now.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
My brother in law is an ardent M$ hater and refuses to use M$ products. He refuses to associate with people who use M$ products for serious computing. Consequently, his circle of contacts ends up being open source bigots that click away on their Palms.
People connect with each other based on factors of affinity. Many citizens of the /. community are biased toward open source and Anything-That-Isn't-Made-by-Microsoft ethics. Because these are two highly important values to them, these people will tend to form social and professional contacts around a preference for these ethics. In any social circle, there is always a tendency toward homogenity/conformity along the points of affinity. You and I tend to form relationships with people who are much like ourselves. In spite of all the PC rhetoric over the years, there is little diversity in our relationships when our relationships are formed with our most important values in view.
For this reason, the commenter above erroneously concludes that because none of the people he knows use Pocket PC units, the PocketPC unit cannot be taken seriously as a PDA. ChaosDiscord has failed to recognize that the Pocket PDA can indeed be considered a powerful and useful PDA because he has forgotten that his social circle does not represent the overall market for PDAs.
I have been using a PDA for five years and have had five different units. None of them were Palms because I didn't like the aesthetics or the functionality. Yet many people who I know and respect use Palms and love them. I also know many PocketPC user who also love them.
It seems that Palm is losing market share to the Pocket PC platform. I do not think that Microsoft will be able to do to Palm what it did to Netscape but I suspect that both platforms will enjoy sizeable segments of the market because of the strengths of each platform.
Most of us at /. are bigots and that's what makes IT and /. cool: there's a lot of passion and a whole boatload of variety to make for a very fun computing experience.
-Everyone laughs at lemmings but no one ever wants to admit to ever being one.
Yes, you enjoy burgers, but, more importantly, with what toppings?
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Well you just mentioned Newspapers. Lets say instead of buying a newspaper every day at say, $.40 a day (averaging in weekend editions), you signed up for a free new service and synced the daily headlines and stories onto your new cheap Palm.
:) ).
In just about 8 1/2 months the Palm would have paid for itself, and saved several trees in the process. (No idea how many fossil fuels were burned to recharge it though
So.. there's one good reason.
^nA! Creatures in my Head
The zire is just like the 1st generation Palm with a rechargable battery and a slightly different form factor.
I'd think buying a used palm 1 would get you the same thing...
-Rachel
I bought my 10 year old daughter a M105 for $49.00 online.. this is regular discount retail...
Why would I want to pay more for something that is less capable?
I can see it if they force the older stuff out of the market (require stores to ship them back for destruction instead of liquidation)
sorry palm.. make a better handheld that we want (Add a fricking CF slot... to hell with more resolution and color and whatever... use a much faster processor and add a damn CF slot to the back!)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Wrong answer, you-who-are-obviously-ensconced-in-acedemia-and-cl ueless-about-how-to-function-in-the-real-world. Any parent who needs to keep track of skating lessons and Webelos meetings and Girl scout meetings and gymnastics classes and art classes and cartoon classes and baseball/soccer/basketball schedules will find a handheld extremely handy. Furthermore, a handheld is good for parents with their own extra curricular activities, such as PTO meetings and theater set shop work. Then there's the shopping list thing, the myriad of phone numbers and birthdays.
And I'm not just making this up. The list above is small part of what's in my IIIxe.
For reasons completely unknown to me, little pocket organizers are the coolest thing to my 13-year-old-sister-in-law-to-be. She was the first person I thought of when I read the announcement, her and her little friends playing IR BattleShip and beaming each other notes, or whatever the hell it is a 13 year old girl would do with a palm. Right now they all have cheap walmart electronic phone number organizers. Xmass...?
when i was a 'children' i did not have $99. i had 99 cents, and i worried about whether to buy an SPST toggle switch, or a panel light, or wait till i could afford a DPDT toggle switch. the other children blew their dough on candy... which i was able to beg from my mom!
"it looks like they're trying to market this thing to people like parents and child"
isnt that uh, everyone alive?
"Thoughts on this?"
My thought is that Palm is run by a bunch of people who think consumers are stupid.
In truth the guys running the place are a bunch of fucktards.
If you consider the palm IIIc was the high point of their product line, it gives you a real clue as to their lack of plans are.
They should have had bluetooth 18 months ago.
Instead, its left to Sony to innovate for palm.
Like I said, they're a bunch of fucktards at palm.
"There are pros/cons to each unit"
The trouble is the Zire has way more cons than pros.
Its old technology dressed up as new.
Palm has lost its freaking mind. Its too bad the only alternative at this point is Windows CE, because Windows CE sucks.
If Palm had put bluetooth in their devices they would have been seen as visionaries. Instead, they look like they're pushing 5 year old technology.
Windows CE devices are winning because of backlighting, color, and connectivity options. The palm is growing increasingly isolated.
The palm line peaked with the IIIc. I've bought a bunch to use because only the new Sony Clie is close to it, and its $600!!!!!!! Holy cripes. Who spends $600 on an organizer?
Anyway, the 505 sucked ass. And the 515 sucked slightly less ass. I mean you like it, its fine. But the screen quality should go up as the models get more advanced.
Its no use telling it to the true believers. They use their palm in odd little ways and then act as if 99% of the world is weird.
http://handspring.com/outlet/index.jhtml Factory refurbished Visor Deluxe $99, Neo and Platinum $119. Now why would I want a 2 meg Palm for $99?
I have a m105. No color, no real fancies, no nothing. I *bought* a cool Krusell leather case and my wife got me some other things for it including a keyboard for taking faster notes in meetings and stuff. I want to learn how to make apps for it [to build a better grocery list maker!] but that will not happen for a while longer. I don't want a "Pocket PC" or multifunction device that lets me make phone calls or play MP3s while waiting for my kids to secure themselves in the car. Some people need or want the extra functionality; I'm happy with what I've got. Will I get a 125 or 130? Maybe; if I decide I want to use some of the cards they have for them and the 500s and, shucks, maybe have Color at some point. I really don't need it so I won't pay an extra $100 for it - yet.
Will I get a Zire for a couple of people I *know* could use one but otherwise would not buy themselves a PDA? Maybe. Kudos to Palm for trying to appeal to a wide market spectrum and possibly get more people using these nifty little things. My m105 has been a great addition to my personal electronics stockpile.
I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
Palm should be fined for flooding the market.
(But then we'd have to fine AOL too.. Wait.. Maybe that's not such a bad idea...)
Anyway. 3 years or so ago I bougt a Sharp OZ640 organizer from a friend that was upgrading to a Sharp Zaurus. I paid $20 USD for the OZ640, and it had 512k ram if I am not mistaken.
It still serves me today, taking down memos (it has a built in QWERTY keyboard), keeping track of appointments, tracking contact information, and expense reports. It even has a backlight (one of those blue Indiglo ones where the whole screen lights up blue). To sync it, I just plug it into a small base station (which plugs into a 9 pin serial port), open the HotSync software on my PC, and press 'Sync' on the OZ640.
As for durability? It is a clamshell design where the screen folds over the keyboard when not in use. I have yet to damage it after 3 years of use. And here's something that will make those of you that use Palms weep. The OZ640 runs on 2 standard AAA batteries. I change the batteries about once a month when the icon appears at the bottom of the main screen. And that's considering my usage of the machine, which is daily, sometimes several times a day.
It may not be 'upgradeable', but it serves me well as it is now, has done so for years, and hopefully will continue to do so for many more.
One is a 16MB Palm "Tungsten T" with a hirez color screen, bluetooth, a 175mhz Arm Processor, Palm OS 5, headphone jack, SD slot, and Bluetooth. And a telescoping shell that closes up to cover the Graffiti area, fwiw.
The other is the "Tungsten W" which is the new wireless model, which is kind of like the next-gen version of the Handspring Treo, except that it's made by Palm, and it's not a handset (it uses a headset jacked into the unit for cellphone conversation). Also Palm OS 5, same processor.
Only if by "slow death" you mean continuing to totally dominate their market and expand into new market segments. My guess is the Zire will be a big hit in the high school market that will lead to even more sales in the years to come as Zire users upgrade to newer more powerful Palms.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
There are other reasons people don't use PDAs sometimes; my problem with Palms has been that traditionally...they're big. I had a Handspring Visor Deluxe when they first came out, and while I loved the PDA overall, it was just bulky. When I didn't have my purse with me, I couldn't really fit both the Visor and my cellular phone into my jacket easily. After a while, though the Visor was useful, I stopped using it and just carried the cellular phone. Eventually sold the Visor to a friend. Now I've got one of the Kyocera Palm PDA-phones, carry it everywhere, and I find I use the PDA a lot more.
:)
As for PocketPCs...personally, I prefer Palm for the functionality, but I do know some serious PDA folks who use PocketPCs, to be fair. Our IT manager here has an iPaq because he can stick an 802.11b wireless card into it and load it with network administration software, and administer things from anywhere in the office. A former co-worker used his iPaq as a portable MP3 player and document reader nearly constantly.
Don't underestimate PocketPC. 3Dfx did that with Nvidia and ATI, believing they had the better platform and no one would ever top them, and they sat on their laurels for too long and turned to add serious innovations far too late; the little pretenders had taken the crown. (Hint hint, Palm: time to release start getting PalmOS 5 onto devices. The screenshots look nice!)
--Rachel
Even 4MB would have helped a lot, if the difference in cost really affects their profit margins. Sigh.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Although the price given to the Zire is grossly out of proportion to the options that are available on the M105 at the same price, or the m125 for 30 to 50 dollars more, I've found sole reedeming aspect of the Zire to be its Lithium-Ion Battery. My past experiences with this type of battery have been nothing short of spectacular. Whether the battery type is being used in my cel-phone or on a camcorder it is entirely hassle free. For example with older camcorders you had to make certain the battery was depleted entirely, if not when you would recharge the battery what ever usage remained, would be lost in the battery's life there after. I essence the lithium-ion battery a memory free battery that you can recharge at the end of the battery's life, or 5 minutes into its usage time and not fear ruining its performance. Although many of you make strong comparisons the options that are lacking in Palm's Zire model, the Lithium-Ion battery is a big step towards making a hasle-free PDA.
I hate all sigs, even this one.
With a 16-Mhz, monochrome screen, and a 2 MB of memory, this looks like we've traveled back in time. The Handspring visor dlx came out in year 1999 and beats the Zire (although zire has a rechargeable memory). One other thing is no expansion..which greatly limits what your handheld can do. However, this might be one of the dream handhelds for kids or junior high / high school students. With built-in apps, a Palm OS of 4.1, rechargeable battery, and a price of $99, this isn't too bad (for a student).
http://www.palmzone.net
These things are getting cheap enough that it's worth getting one simply to handle a single ebook (eg. ePocrates or Universalis) - and the cost of the machine plus the cost of the content is still less than the cost of a paper equivalent.
Then you can have a completely separate device for use as a PDA, with backlight, slots, and anything else you need.
Kids these days have gotten accustomed to a torrent of information (internet, TV, computer games, ...) to the point that ADD/ADHD is very common. I would think adding yet another channel for them to receive information would make kids these days would only make the situation worse.
-- Frank Hsueh, frank.hsueh@gmail.com
Ah, but there's certain things you're neglecting that make all the difference with the Zire (at the risk of sounding like a salesperson).
First: the Zire uses a lithium-ion battery, not alkaline batteries like the m105, m125 or Sony's Clie SL10. Those latter batteries are going to need replacing often - maybe not at an insane frequency, but enough that the "average" person may not see the cost as being worthwhile. The li-ion battery is supposed to let the Zire go for weeks without a recharge, and a recharge only takes 2 hours.
The Zire, I understand, also has a plastic screen, not glass - and there's a carrying case included. Very handy when you're selling the Zire to people who aren't necessarily going to treat a PDA delicately.
I believe there's been statistics shown (check a site like palminfocenter.com as they may refer to them in their Zire review) that indicate that $99 is the "magic number" when it comes to sales, too. Many people are supposed to buy something at $99 that they wouldn't otherwise, even when they could have obtained it before (or obtained something better) for $30-50 more. I guess you could call it the "Wal-Mart factor..." people see the price, and react more strongly to that than the feature set.
Not sure if it's worth the price; It's just better to get an older PDA for about the same price. For example, go look on pricewatch.com You can get a IIIxe (8mb, b+w, backlight) for $100 or a IIIc (8mb, COLOR, LiIon battery) for $120.
As for me, I got an HP Jornada 525 for $170. (this was almost exactly a year ago) I got 16 megs, 320x240 color, and a 133 MHz SH-3. Yes, it does run on Pocket PC; however, anti-Microsoft sentiments aside, it's not a bad thing. I can play Doom, Quake, emulate Gameboy, NES, listen to MP3's, watch MPEG video. I have a scaled-down version of Emacs, and can compile LaTeX documents and view the resulting DVI files. I can put 128 megs onto a $40 CompactFlash card. Files are easy to put onto it; unlike PalmOS, it uses a real filesystem and it's trivially easy to copy files over. I can even use my Linux box to do so. using a USB CompactFlash adapter.
Try looking into older PocketPC's; they might be cheap and trust me, they're really not that bad. Otherwise, get an older Palm or Visor. $100 for this is not worth it.
And no, I am NOT trying to troll or flame.
So we should stop buying hammers just because the design hasn't changed in decades?
Or, to run the tool analogy into the ground, should we stop using screwdrivers just because power drill/drivers are available?
Last year I bought a 2MB M100. And with PC-mentality, I installed every demo and shareware app that would fit onto it. Guess which software I use regularly? Only the programs included with the unit.
And was not when Palm first came out, I keep my trusty Palm always with me. Ditto my wife.
;-) ), Metro for underground maps of cities I visit regularly, Secret! for encrypted data, a terminal emulator for emergencies in the server room, Quartus Forth for a bit of fun programming, and yes, games (amongst many other apps used as and when needed). I have to charge the thing only once a week, my older Palm III could go for a couple of weeks with rechargable batteries...
On top of the standard organizer stuff I keep my current correspondence chess tournaments, Palmasutra (which has come handy in many ocassions
If Palm is going down it is not for lack of features or uses, the current economic situation could explain the situation better (If you need a PC, a printer and a Palm you most probably will leave the Palm at the end if you are short of money).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Chapter 2: Newtonian Growth and Decay
The growth-decay formulas were developed in the trivial fashion by
Isaac Newton's famous brother Phigg. His idea was to provide an equation
that would describe a quantity that would dwindle and dwindle, but never
quite reach zero. Historically, he was merely trying to work out his
mortgage. Another versatile equation also emerged, one which would define
a function that would continue to grow, but never reach unity. This equation
can be applied to charging capacitors, over-damped springs, and the human
race in general.
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