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Palm Tungsten Models Reviewed

Jason Weill writes "MSNBC has a slightly premature review of Palm's brand-new Tungsten models. These models, currently (as of 11:10 PM EST Sunday) unavailable on Palm's own web site, are the Tungsten T and Tungsten W. The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM. At $499, it's more expensive than most handhelds currently on the market. The Tungsten W replaces the Graffiti area with a thumb keyboard and includes GSM/GPRS phone capabilities. Unlike the Handspring Treo devices, the Tungsten W only works with a handset -- you can't put it up to your ear. The Tungsten W will cost $549, although most American service providers will subsidize at least part of the cost. These models will officially be unveiled Monday, October 28."

198 comments

  1. Re:Pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    watch out for bee's!

  2. Will They Sell Them At Ikea? by istartedi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Allen Wrench: "Help! They found me in a meteor! I need tungsten to live! TTUUUNNNGGGSSSTTEEENN!"

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  3. That's some power by SexyKellyOsbourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    144mhz ARM with 16MB of RAM, along with a nice screen that fits in your hand -- that destroys the Gameboy Advance's 17mhz CPU and measly 256k of RAm.

    If PC games took off with the gaming enthusiasts to replace consoles, handhelds should soon become a thriving gaming market to replace Gameboys.

    With that much power, a GBA emulator could even be ported to it!

    1. Re:That's some power by cdf12345 · · Score: 2

      Why then, do all the current palm games suck?

      probably because users are to cheap to buy the games when they are $30-50, that's an awful lot to spend on a handheld enterainment app.

      --
      Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
    2. Re:That's some power by g4dget · · Score: 2

      Yes, and that's some price as well. The Tungsten series is way too expensive for the GBA target market.

    3. Re:That's some power by stickyc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why then, do all the current palm games suck?

      probably because users are to cheap to buy the games when they are $30-50, that's an awful lot to spend on a handheld enterainment app.


      No, it's because this amazing new horsepower isn't actually on the market for another few hours and the vast majority of PalmOS developers don't participate in "pre-release hardware" development (unlike the major game companies).

      There are quite a few games that push the limits of the Dragonball and look damn nice, but even the top of the line 33mhz isn't close to a 144mhz ARM. Patience, Young Jedi, the wicked games will come soon enough, especially with the new 5-way and improved audio support.

    4. Re:That's some power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AS far as I know, there already are some Gameboy emulators for the Palm, one of them is called 'Liberty'.. Anf there are lots and lots of emulators for the (slightly faster) Zaurus, ranging from Mame to Bochs (x86 Emulator).

    5. Re:That's some power by Kip+Diamond · · Score: 1

      The GBA is a better buy if you want gaming. 5.89 mhz per $1 compared to 3.47 mhz $1 with the Tungsten.

      --
      --- YEAH I SAW SPARKS FLY!! FROM THE CORNER OF MY EEEYYYEEE!!!
    6. Re:That's some power by Fnord · · Score: 2

      Thing its missing though is all the graphic accelerators that the gba has. Thanks to alot of custom chips, that little thing can do far more than its processor should allow. And while the cpu on this thing is impressive, I don't know if its enough to handle all that.

    7. Re:That's some power by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 2

      With all the RAM and the ARM processor, I wonder if someone will try porting NewtonOS to it... :)

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    8. Re:That's some power by afidel · · Score: 1

      Actually it's not all that powerfull, it's roughly a shrunken supernintendo system.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    9. Re:That's some power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the NewtonOS was open source, I'm sure someone would. Since it's not, I doubt it.

  4. Quote from article ha! by cdf12345 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "When Palm talks, the industry listens. And users sometimes drool"

    The industry then laughs, as their marketshare increase due do stupid palm decisions.

    Users on the other hand are probably drooling because they are sleeping through palm's big announcement, having realized long ago, that palm has overpromised and underdelivered over and over.

    --
    Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
    1. Re:Quote from article ha! by v8interceptor · · Score: 2, Funny

      What's the sound of one Palm clapping? Or: if a Palm falls in a forest, does it make a sound if no one is there to hear it?

      --
      --- Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit? | Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
  5. How do they sell anything in Japan? by kryonD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I only paid $190 for my cell phone and it does everything the palm does, plus surfs the internet and receives full blown email without having to add a modem attachment. It also has a .3 MegaPixel digital camera in it. Why would anyone pay 3x as much for a heavier, less useful toy?

    Just curious

    --
    I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
    1. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Moofie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because they want a useful PDA, with usable text input and a large screen?

      Or maybe because they don't want to pay the cell phone company for downloading new applications to them.

      Oh, wait, your phone can't use new applications? I'm sure that somebody thinks that the phone's built in games and utilities are worth a damn, but I'm sure not one.

      A PDA is more than just an address book. The killer feature of my Palm is the desktop sync. That way, even if my PDA dies, ALL that important information is ready for me to download into a new device. No hassle, no incompatibilities...it just works.

      Phones are great, when you want to call people. For doing anything else, they're a user interface nightmare. .3 megapixel camera? Don't make me laugh. I do better with a box of Crayolas.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by silvaran · · Score: 2

      Ahh, but does it have a cool name like Tungsten?

    3. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by krazyninja · · Score: 2
      Several differences. For one, PDAs are just PCs in small form factor. You can add applications, and download programs into a PDA unlike a cell phone. It may not be needed for you, but someone else will.
      And cellphones have a limited screen size/ low resolution. And highend cellphones that have all these functionality anyway cost around 500-600$. As they say, the lines are pretty blurred between cellphones and PDAs.

      --
      "Do something man. Right now."
    4. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by lingqi · · Score: 2
      yap yap yap...

      actually you CAN download new applications onto your cellphone.

      here is a website with some info on Docomo, by NTT. (the only cellphone provider with english info, AFAIK

      The 504i series does what's called "iAppli" (nevermind the silly names for a sec) - but they do let you download software.

      And hopefully you can see that the input / email capabilities is no worse than any Zaurus / palm / Sony keypad (it's cool looking at young people franticly thumb in emails on the train).

      and the camera actually do better than you think. Imagine web-cam quality color pictures. be sarcastic all you want, but it's pretty neat feature (albeit one I will never use - my ugly mug will probabbly shock the phone system into some fratic emergency mode), and many people uses it.

      the only thing you are halfly on-the-mark is the cost... but then, when you think about it, a cell phone that costs 180 bux or so (cheaper yet if you buy older model / longer contract) - that weights like 3 oz. compared to your palm for about 500... and if you are conservative on yapping, the monthly fee is no worse than US plans i have seen. - and considering that you recieve calls for free, it might be cheaper.

      and the screen area is not even that much different : cellphones here have resolution as high as 176x216... it's tiny (like everything else) - but again, for the money and convenience and all that... not to quote anybody, but fsck palm... fsck palm in the ear.

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

    5. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japanese girls are really cute.

      This has nothing to do with cell phones, really, except that they all have them, and they're all really cute, especially when they carry their phones in cute little pouches.

    6. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Hmm. And can I use one? No. So what are you arguing again?

      I can imagine people thumbing messages on the train. I just can't imagine ME doing it.

      You wanted to know who would buy such a thing...I answered you. Yes, I know the state of the art in Japan wrt mobile technology is most impressive...but I still prefer a large screen and a digitizer, along with a LARGE library of applications and databases, to a cellphone that nobody but the phone company can write apps for.

      A tiny screen is great, until I want to read a (cached) web site on it. You can have your phone. I have my Palm. We're both happy. Right?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by haunebu · · Score: 1
      --

      Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...

    8. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      so can you enter all your information into your computer and synch it all to your phone? how about backing up your phone to your pc so that when (not if...) your phone breaks you can restore the replacement phone to have the same phone#'s ans setup and other data?

      I have yet to see one that can... you can send your data to a web-page for editing, but it still costs money to transfer it, and you cant back-up phone settings...

      sorry, until the phone companies and phone services get their heads out of their asses and stop offering useless things like a fricking digital camera... they will never be as good as a PDA.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by kryonD · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'll answer your questions as well as a few of the above posts.

      NTT does make an adapter that connects to a standard serial port with accompanying software to backup info on your PC. Additionally, the phone has a 8M memory stick that I can save anything I want on. I will admit that the ability to sync the phone to software such as outlook is missing, but then again, I've tried using that feature with my palm before and after the coolness factor wore off, I realized that I wasn't nearly busy enough to benefit from it. I am however, a mid-level executive with 40 people working for me and I travel about once every two or three months. I am also single and have a fairly active social calender. I would say a vast majority of people do not fall into a category of being more busy than I am and would come to the same conclusion. I also kind of enjoy the seperation. My cell phone is tied to my personal life. Sure, I keep my work calendar on it and receive work related phone calls, but the emails I get on it are entirely just from friends. I really wouldn't want to be reading work emails on my time off.

      The phone has a Java VM on it and there are tons of applications to download for entertainment, or PDA like functions. FAQs and HOWTOs are available on the net on how to write apps for the phone, so I can even do my own custom code if I wanted.

      As far as the camera being useless....It takes 640x480 256K .jpg's and the phones 4M can hold about 40 at any given time. The memory stick expands that to over 100 pics. I've taken the phone on weekend trips and never run out of space. I can snap pictures and email them to friends on the spot. Plus I didn't have to carry an additional camera around just to preserve the memories. Not to mention that it's a damned great conversation starter in a bar when you take a girl's picture and then play around with it using the phones photo editing software. All that for $190 is more than worth it. You couldn't even buy the 3 seperately in the states for that price!

      --
      I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
    10. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Brummund · · Score: 2, Insightful
      so can you enter all your information into your computer and synch it all to your phone?

      Yes, I can. I even do it on Linux. http://www.gnokii.org

    11. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Moofie · · Score: 2

      What am I looking at here?

      One phone has a screen the size of a postage stamp. Another was designed by some freak who got bored with the ten-key layout on every phone ever and decided to rearrange it so it's more pretty. We've got a couple folding devices hiding keyboards that people with hands as big as mine can not use. Then we've got two Windows CE devices.

      How do any of these improve my life? They're ALL critically flawed. None have the kind of text input I prefer. None run an operating system with a vibrant developer community. None have the sort of flexibility I want.

      Behind the times, maybe. But I'm in Palm's target audience.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    12. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by lingqi · · Score: 1

      I am arguing against your un-informed-ness.

      your original premise of the disapproval for phone-based (instead of a full-fledge PDA) is that
      1) there are no downloadable applications, and
      2) it is difficult to input
      3) it is costly

      I am telling you that:
      1) yes you can download applications - and FYI, they are not phone-company only - there are definitely 3rd party apps out there, for example, Mapfan (kinda like mapquest) has a mapping app for your phone;
      2) the input does not seem to be a problem for many (in fact, most people - and I bet you never tried one yourself before making the claim it's "too hard for you"); and
      3) the price difference - if there are any - is perfectly justifiable.
      4) there are other benefits in weight, size, and convenience.

      besides, just because you will stick with a palm is ancedotal evidence at best. You don't represent the market, I agree with the parent of your original post, that there is no good reason (or, at least does not seem to be a market for it) in Japan, as cellphones seem to do everything that everybody needs to do.

      'tis all. (and your original post was flame-baitish. FYI)

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

    13. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      excellent! now can someone please get the phone sales-people educated so they can tell me this stuff? I have asked for the past 6 months for these features and I keep getting told "It doesnt exist" from the verizon people.. and the AT&T woreless people just give you the "radio shack" start of ....duh.......what?

      please I would love to find a cellphone dealer that isn't either....

      A - staffed with idiots and morons that dont know their own products....

      B - a den of thieves and rip-off artists...

      Thanks! I'm going shopping tommorow!!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    14. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Moofie · · Score: 2

      1) There is not a large, openly available dev environment for "mobile phones" the way there is for "PalmOS PDAs". If you're arguing that the development community for any phone is as active and fruitful as the Palm development community, you're crazy. If there was some platform that developers could use to deploy onto many phones across many service providers, you might be on to something. However, I don't believe that such a platform exists.

      Incidentally, the flexibility and power of PalmOS's calendar feature would be quite a feat to duplicate on a phone. I've never seen its equal.

      2) When I'm making a purchasing decision for me, I don't care about what YOU think about the product. If _I_ don't like the UI, I'm not going to shell out the cash.

      3) I never argued a price difference. The prices of any electronic tool like these are a) malleable and b) usually in the $300-500 neighborhood. And irrelevant to our discussion.

      4) If it fits comfortably in my pocket, it's small enough. My Visor Deluxe is just a skosh too big, but most of the new PalmOS devices are as small or smaller, so I feel this is a moot point. As far as convenience goes, a device is convenient if and only if it does everything I'd like it to. Mobile phones (with the exception of the PalmOS based "smart"phones, several of which I like) are not convenient for me, as they don't have sufficient functionality.

      As an aside, the pricing structure for wireless apps and service in America is ridiculous. It's stupid for me to pay a monthly fee for the ability to download new ringtones to my phone. They're obviously just trying to soak the customer for every nickel, as opposed to working hard to provide value for the dollar. That leads me to believe that the free market is not being permitted to work, since a competitive environment would tune out this practice. Is this different in Japan? If so, great. Hopefully USian phone companies will stop being stupid. However, I'm not holding my breath.

      Just so you know where I am on this price curve, I'm waiting $20/month for unlimited night and weekend minutes, and a reasonable number of daytime minutes. If I'm going to use Internet data services (I'd rather not), I want a very reasonable price per byte. All the prices I've seen so far are absolutely absurd.
      Anecdote or no, I am not alone. Lots of people use their PDAs to do things that phones have not yet demonstrated an ability to do, so it's not the evolutionary dead-end you seem to want to believe it is. As far as me not being a representative of the market, that's fine. I don't care about what "the market" wants...I care about being able to get products that are useful TO ME. As long as such products keep coming out, the free market economy is working.

      You don't seem to use a PDA. That's cool. I am glad you're happy with the functionality that your phone provides. However, if you want that to be enough for "everybody", I think you're being silly.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    15. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by lingqi · · Score: 1

      Man... to do real work or reply on almost pointless debate. so - this will be last one I will write.

      you seem to think i am attacking your choice personally or something... i don't give a rat's ass what you like, don't like, etc. but when you go off and talk about things without any real info backing you up, that's where I come in.

      if you would read your original (about three / four levels up), your original argument was: can you download stuff to your phone? no! (and you were wrong) and then you said: It's only the phone company's software! (and you were wrong again)... research before you speak, man (or woman - in case you are one)

      anyway - that's all i wanted to do - correct the misinformed. don't even have opinion on this actually - i don't use either phone or PDA; post-it-notes and notepad is good enough for my simple life. But I do notice trends, and it appears to me that a lot of people believes that the phone is enough and PDA unnecessary. I am concuring the original poster that his observation in this regard, as far as i can see, was correct.

      but anyway. enough productivity lost already. - but just one last thing - a lot (or, i have heard here and there) people are developing phone stuff in java-micro. so maybe they will become open... i don't know. but at the mean time - in japan that might not happen, since almost every company is, or is trying to be, monopolic. that's a different discussion, though.

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

    16. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      See, the point that you're dismissing is the crux of the matter. Each phone company defending their monopoly is the major failure of the cell phone market.

      My rhetoric was shoddy. I should have said you can't download any SIGNIFICANT number of USEFUL applications to your phone. I'm not seeing this huge library of phone software you seem to think exists. On the other hand, if you want to peruse http://www.freewarepalm.com (beware popups), you'll see many hundreds of free (beer) apps for my PalmOS device. That software library is an enormous advantage for Palm devices. Phones can't touch that sort of flexibility, period.

      OK, you say that maybe someday java-micro will be a unified phone development plan. Groovy. I still don't quite understand how this magic software gets loaded on to my phone. Do I have to buy that $50 serial cable from the phone company? Or do I have to find a phone whose IR port hasn't been lobotomized? Bluetooth is probably the long-term solution to this problem (and one I'm stoked about) but for now, loading software onto phones (and, more critically, backing up the data I've laboriously entered into said phone) is neither inexpensive nor simple.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    17. Re:How do they sell anything in Japan? by lingqi · · Score: 1

      you download the applications from the net (for the phones) - all of them (let me say that again: ALL OF THEM are internet / browsing capable). and hopefully 3G will change the "monopoly" situation with phones - much more than micro-java ever will.

      yeah i lied about not replying.

      --

      My life in the land of the rising sun.

  6. Wow by J1a2o · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This thing's more powerful than my old Pentium that I'm using as a router and small webserver right now.. =/ My router is running linux on a 120 MHz box with 32 MB RAM...

    1. Re:Wow by gnuadam · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't buy into the megahertz myth. Just because the clock speed is greater means nothing. I'd still bank on the pentium.

      Until recently, ARM chips designed for handhelds didn't do harware floating point math!

      --
      You say :wq, I say ZZ. Why can't we all just get along?
    2. Re:Wow by Stigmata669 · · Score: 2

      no its not, you just think it is. the ARM processor may have a higher clockspeed, but the pentium is much more powerful.

      --
      Yawn.
    3. Re:Wow by zulux · · Score: 2

      Until recently [embedded.com], ARM chips designed for handhelds didn't do harware floating point math!

      They were smart: they waited untill the Pentium people worked out all the FDIV bugs.

      --

      Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

    4. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't mean jack shit. you obviously don't know anything about arm coding do you?

  7. Another Review Here by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's another review from the folks at InfoSync: http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495.html.

    Looks nice, but I don't see myself replacing my PalmIIIc yet (c'mon... someone make a non-Sony Palm that's as compelling!)

    1. Re:Another Review Here by Moofie · · Score: 1

      The internal antenna for Bluetooth is, for me, a killer idea.

      Mobile device companies take note: If your antenna can't survive getting stuffed into my pocket with my keys and my pocketknife, it's going to break and I'm going to be grumpy. Same goes for laptops with wireless connectivity and my bookbag. Internal antenna GOOD.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Another Review Here by Rhinobird · · Score: 1

      I seriously need to get my eyes checked. When I first read your comment I though it read "Looks nice, but I don't see myself replacing my Phallic yet".

      Then, promptly started humming the tune to "Detachable Penis".

      --
      If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
    3. Re:Another Review Here by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      Well, perhaps the main reason initially would be that the OS5 Sony is rather on the hefty size because of the new CF slot they've included. The Sony has more features, the Palm is smaller. Swings and roundabouts.

      Also, some consider Palm's support to be slightly better than Sony's, although this is of course rather objective.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    4. Re:Another Review Here by Cato · · Score: 2

      I can never find anything very useful on the palm.com support site. I end up googling, particularly for newsgroup messages, to solve anything significant. An example of this is SUDS (Sudden USB Death Syndrome) on m500 series Palms - while Palm claim this only affects m505 with old cradles, this hit my Palm m515 with a new cradle. Palminfocenter.com provided a workaround that has worked so far, while Palm.com had nothing.

      Mind you, this is generally true of most vendors - Internet support is so much better that you can often just bypass the official support. This is probably one reason why Linux has succeeded, because the lack of (as much) official vendor support doesn't really make much difference (and of course you can buy such support if you want it).

    5. Re:Another Review Here by Baki · · Score: 2

      Is PalmOS5 a must have now? I was considering an OS4 palm (m515) or clie (T675C). They are small, light and quite versatile (esp. the T675C).

      I think Palm apps shall remain compatible with OS4 for a very long time, the Zire and other new models running the dragonball CPU and OS4 have only just hit the market.

      I rather buy something a little less up to date for 50% of the price, because you may have to dump it sooner (it'll be outdated sooner) but not twice as soon, i.e. the 'buck per month' ratio shall be better IMO.

  8. Restrictions on free movement? by Trusty+Penfold · · Score: 5, Funny

    you can't put it up to your ear

    I bet you can.

    1. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by Skirwan · · Score: 5, Funny
      you can't put it up to your ear
      I bet you can
      Possible responses:
      • Actually, it uses an advanced system of gyroscopes (based on Segway technology) to prevent users from placing it near their ears.
      • Well, okay, you can put it up to your ear. But it'll give you cancer.
      • None of the cool kids put it up to their ears.
      • Putting it up to your ear would be circumventing the advanced voice security features and may violate the DMCA.
      • You can't put it up to your ear because you don't have one. You can, however, put it up to your GNU/ear.
      • Actually, you can put it up to both ears. Imagine putting it up to a Beowulf cluster of ears!
      And I'm spent.

      --
      Damn the Emperor!
    2. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's your point? I mean, here's a telephone on my desk, I can put that up to my ear too, that doesn't mean I can talk into it and make phone calls or something.

    3. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by tunah · · Score: 3, Funny

      Check the EULA.

      --
      Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
    4. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by roalt · · Score: 2, Funny
      You can't put it up to your ear because you don't have one. [...]

      Ah, that figures why Vincent van Gogh didn't have a PDA...

      To the modders: Please mark this one Insightful :-)

    5. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by alexburke · · Score: 1

      I haven't had such a hearty laugh in quite some time. Keep up the good work. :)

    6. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by bluefusion · · Score: 1

      The hidden clause in the warranty agreement:

      "You are forbidden from using this device (the 'Device') in a manner consistent with that of a telephony system. Such behavior includes, but is not limited to, placing the device in a position near the user's ears (the 'Ears') or using the device in a manner deemed inappropriate by Palm, Inc. or its subsidiaries. Failure to comply will result in said Ears being removed forcefully from the User ('End User') to prevent future issues."

    7. Re:Restrictions on free movement? by a1englishman · · Score: 1

      A little red light comes on, telling you not to do that.

  9. New Palm? by lewko · · Score: 3, Funny

    Must....Resist....New....Gadget....Must....Be Strong....

    --
    Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  10. PALM that never needs shaving.. by EvilCabbage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    way cool.

    But seriously, when is enough, enough?.

    These are trying to fill a gap, somewhere between my mobile phone, and my laptop, but doesnt have enough functionality to do away with either.

    With this in mind, it seems counter productive to carry yet another device around with me...

    Just my 0.2c..

    1. Re:PALM that never needs shaving.. by EvilCabbage · · Score: 1

      Horses for courses I guess.

      With my phone I can check the weather reports, read the news, dictate a couple of messages, check email, and keep in touch with our offices. $10 says it will take slightly more of a beating than a PDA as well.

  11. finally, a PDA designed for pr0n? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The Tungsten T is, according to Palm, is designed to be perfect for one-handed use...

    Especially important, with the high-res screen, and processor no doubt powerful enough to play DiVX movies, you have to have the other hand free.

  12. Too little too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Palm has had five years to get their act together when it comes to PDA functionality. I hate to say it, but the PocketPC devices are far superior to anything that Palm has had to date. The ability to play full-length color feature movies, MP3s, true wireless internet with a real web browser, document creation, PDF reading, chat, console emulators, and actual MULTITASKING has been available for over a year and a half now.

    In short, there's no excuse for this device. Palm is dead in the water. For *LESS* than $499 I can get an 802.11b-equipped full color Toshiba E740 that will outrun, outgun, and outfeature any of Palm's new devices. Kiss your butts goodbye, Palm. This isn't 1997, this is almost 2003, and you just sat around on your market share. Watch Small-and-Flaccid(TM) eat the rest of your lunch now.

    1. Re:Too little too late... by PureCreditor · · Score: 1
      Everything u named there, u can do it on a Clie NX. Also, does the PocketPC have 480x320? noooooooooooo...........

      Palm and Sony has been in this market long enough to know what's good. Toshiba is a new comer. Leave it at that.

      Does the PocketPC have keyboards? No. Clie = Yes.

      If PocketPC is so good, why did it take MS so many years, and still haven't even achieved 1/3 market share?

    2. Re:Too little too late... by enjo13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uhm.. most Pocket PC's are 320x480.

      Although I disagree with this poster. The market has demonstrated over and over again that place low value on the bells and whistles of your typical pocket pc device.. preferring simple, long lasting PDA's.

      I actually think the Cell Phone makers are doing this best. Particularly those utilizing symbian, Nokia has put together some really compelling devices that combine the best of the PDA with the best of the cell phone... its a solid solid combination.

      --
      Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
    3. Re:Too little too late... by hyeh · · Score: 1

      Actually, I don't know of any Pocket PC that's 320x480. Every Pocket PC I know of uses 320x240 QVGA resolution.

      The Sony Palms & new generation of Palm devices beat Microsoft hands down in terms of screen resolution (and battery life).

    4. Re:Too little too late... by Binary+Boy · · Score: 1

      Most PocketPCs are 320x240... in fact I don't know of a single one that's 320x480, though there are many CE/CE.net devices with much higher rez (tablet and clamshell portables).

    5. Re:Too little too late... by Moofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Outrun, outgun, and turn the batteries into little Smokie-Links in less than eight hours.

      If I can't use my PDA for at least a week without batteries, fuhgeddaboutit. I don't need to watch movies on the damn thing...I need it to WORK FOR A LONG TIME.

      If I can get long battery life and all that other crap, well and good. But I won't buy a device that needs to be in its cradle every night before I go to bed.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    6. Re:Too little too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For *LESS* than $499 I can get an 802.11b-equipped full color Toshiba E740 that will outrun, outgun, and outfeature any of Palm's new devices

      Doubtfull, but can you 'outgun' then new Palms seven day battery life? I doubt the Toshiba will go seven hours.

    7. Re:Too little too late... by biglig2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, of course Palms do have wireless internet, PDFs, document editing, chat and console emulators.

      I admit the Palms don't do multitasking but I must admit I'm stumped as to what you would need it for. Playing media while you work on a document I suppose.

      But more to the point of your post, I use my Palm to replace all the paper in my life. It doesn't play movies on a tiny screen? Sad, but not really that relevant, is it?

      I prefer my Palm as it is tiny, has a long battery life, and runs a nice clean and simple OS that does exactly what I want it to do.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    8. Re:Too little too late... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Palm has had five years to get their act together when it comes to PDA functionality. I hate to say it, but the PocketPC devices are far superior to anything that Palm has had to date.

      I've used Palms and WinCe devices (as well as various Newtons since teh MP100) since the original Palm Pilot and WinCE 1.0, and I've nevevr found WinCE (por PPC) devices to be far superior. Yes, they are more powerful than a Palm, but power never translated to usefulness.

      The ability to play full-length color feature movies,

      Excpet that it takes a large CF/SD card to store one, and don't count on the batteries lasting through an entire movie if you use the backlight. Battery life has been a really issue for me - I can't use my 565 a lot and get through a day.

      MP3s,

      Yes, although the Clie has done this for a while as well. In fact, my main use for my 565 is to play MP3's.

      true wireless internet with a real web browser, document creation,PDF reading,

      The web browser is nice - I use it with my CF modem in a pinch.

      Document creation is one area where MS really dropped the ball - why go to yet another incompatable document format? I want to be able to edit a Word/Excel document on my PPC, pull the CF card, and plop it in my laptop - and be able to open the PPC file. Currently, that is a no go. Even worse, converetd files lose formating - a real pain for excel files. Not to mention the lack of a native ppt viewer. ,pdf - Palm had it before PPC.

      And, no one has really got a Datebook5 clone for teh PPC, not to mention decent expense apps. (I 've tried Fusion, Traveller, AgendaToday, etc. and none match DBK5- Gulliver - iambics Expense program (I forget the name) for managing a schedule and expenses.)

      chat, console emulators, and actual MULTITASKING has been available for over a year and a half now.

      MAME and NES are the other main reasons I still have a PPC. If someone ports them to the Palm, I could dummp my Jornada once again.

      the PPC has a lot of potential, but has too many near-misses to really be useful for me - someone who travela s alot and would really like a portable device to use when it's just too much troubel to pull out a laptop.

      It's really too bad Apple dumped the Newton - one product where they, not Palm, could have created a market. I really liked my MP2000.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:Too little too late... by bluefusion · · Score: 1

      I think the issue here is not so much about power--the PPC OS/architecture IS more powerful than the PalmOS-- but it doesn't really matter, at least to me. I can get things done on my Visor Prism, it's plenty fast, relatively stable (although the stability issues are why I'd never get another Handspring device for the rest of my life--why on EARTH did I take back my m505?) and it works. The desktop sync is effortless and simple. The applications are designed to be used with a pen, not tiny Windows apps converted to run on a small screen.

      I just don't have any real use for playing music or movies on the go, I guess, but aside from that, what's the real advantage to a PocketPC over a Palm device? Wireless internet'd be nice but I don't have a WiFi network anyway, so...

    10. Re:Too little too late... by AzrealAO · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the Palm device you can use for a 168 hours. Otherwise, you're not comparing the same thing, and if you actually did some research on the battery life the device manufacturers claim, you'd find that they are rated for almost the same operational time, 6-8 hours. Palm just chooses to report their battery time in weeks, based on 15 or 30 minutes of use a day, whereas the PPC Manufacturers report an actual number of hours. If you bother to do the math, you will find that they are almost identical.

    11. Re:Too little too late... by Baki · · Score: 2
      I still have an IPAQ 3850; which I will sell soon for less than 50% of new price after only 4 months because I hate it.

      I hate having to sync with Outlook (I can't stand outlook). And I've never used multitasking.

      In fact, I think multitasking (in a non-MMU protected environment) is a very very bad idea, and is one of the main reasons for the frequent lock-ups and crashes of the operating system.

      In the years before with PalmOS devices I hardly had any crashes or problems, but the PocketPC crashes all the time.

    12. Re:Too little too late... by Octagon+Most · · Score: 1

      Not to defend Palm, but there is a dramatic advantage in time between charging for PalmOS devices even though they have similar ratings for operational time. The difference is that PocketPC users are utilizing the functionality of their more powerful devices to do lengthy tasks such as listening to MP3s or watching video clips.

      Since most PalmOS devices cannot do these things, owners of such devices will turn them on, get their data in a couple of taps, then turn it off. Thus their full operational time is spread out over many more days. Palm uses this usage pattern to claim weeks of usage for their devices.

      It will certainly vary widely by individual, and the high-end PalmOS devices such as the new Clies are made for multimedia, but in general this is probably a pretty accurate gauge of typical usage.

    13. Re:Too little too late... by Moofie · · Score: 2

      You're right. PPCs get used for different things (things which I don't find useful) and that's going to change their battery performance. I'm also very leery of these new PalmOS 5 machines with the fast processors and the big color screens...I'm not sure that they're going to be able to run for long enough to be useful to me.

      I want my PDA to be an organizer. Sure, it's great if it can pull stunts like playing movies, but I don't really care about those gee-whiz features. For me, my Palm is a tool, not a toy. There aren't a heck of a lot of features I want in my pocket that my Handspring Visor doesn't already have. I'd like a higher resolution screen, and an onboard battery pack (that still lasts forever), and the ability to talk to my phone (not to do mobile Internet, but to keep my phone directory up-to-date), but apart from that I'm totally happy with the old slow processor.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    14. Re:Too little too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I can't use my PDA for at least a week without batteries

      while I know that "without batteries" means "without replacing/recharging batteries", I couldn't help imagining a Potato PDA.

    15. Re:Too little too late... by Jonavin · · Score: 2

      I agree with some of what you've said but my Sony Clie can do most of these things.

      Multitasking on a PDA, what for? Play MP3 while you run another program? I can already do that. On a Plam, I don't lose data that I'm editing when I switch form one app to another... so it really isn't a big deal.

    16. Re:Too little too late... by Felinoid · · Score: 2

      Wireless: Minstral for palm predates anything for the WinCE machines.
      Movies: Gmovie been areound for a while but the pda screens to small so it's nothing to take sereously.
      MP3s: You can add an MP3 device to a Handspring Visor. However your better off to buy an MP3 player for now.
      The pocket pc sound chip isn't good enough and adds to the price.
      The Palm net devices are limited in functionility but I've had more problems with the minstral than the palm net based 7 and 705 units.
      The pocket pc waists memory and processing power. Multitasking on a pda is an eject seat on a motercycle your better off removing it.
      It's this bloat that makes Linux ill suted for PDAs and WinCE is no better.
      If you want the features missing on the Palm you want a laptop or a tablet not a pda.
      I can't find a pocket pc for less than $500 and few palms cost more than that.
      The only thing that really sets the pocket pc ahead is memory becouse on a PDA thats all that matters.

      --
      I don't actually exist.
  13. Stowaway XT AKA Palm Ultra-Thin by miradu2000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Also announced today was the Stowaway XT - AKA Palm Ultra Thin. If you're familier with PDAs you probably know of the Stowaway- the cool foldable keybaord for PDAs. Well they made a new one, just half as small. Seriously. Same full size keyboard- a preview of it is available here

    1. Re:Stowaway XT AKA Palm Ultra-Thin by packeteer · · Score: 2

      Maybe you mean half as big. Your using a double negative. Im not being picky i just wanna clarify. The new keyboard weighs less, is smaller in all dimensions and still has the same keyboard layout. Kick ass engineering at its best.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    2. Re:Stowaway XT AKA Palm Ultra-Thin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your using a double negative.

      Maybe you mean "You're".

      Im not being picky

      Maybe you mean "I'm".

      i just wanna

      Maybe you mean "I just want to"

  14. Holy crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Who in their right mind would spend $500 for an electronic address book?

    1. Re:Holy crap by istartedi · · Score: 4, Funny

      The same people who paid that much for less than 2 shares of VA Linux?

      Oh wait... It's not 1999 anymore. I dunno. NOBODY???

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  15. Finally... by GarfBond · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm glad to see the new Tungsten series and Palm OS 5 finally come out. Now, only time will tell whether or not this device becomes successful.

    I think Palm OS 5 will be a winner, as long as it does its mainstay well, while adding on some new features and doing those well too. In other words, it does all the organizing you need it to do and it puts that ARM to use.

    The only problem I see with the T is the sliding mechanism. Anytime there's physical movement involved with a product like this, you have to wonder how long it'll last. If it's nice and durable, there goes my one complaint about the T. If it's really fragile, users won't like that much at all.

    Myself, I hope to get one of these things after they come down in price.

  16. This can't succeed in Norway by say · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ...considering the name being "Tungsten". It means "heavy stone" in Norwegian :)

    Not what I want in a handheld device, at least.

    --
    Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
    1. Re:This can't succeed in Norway by Jugalator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hehe... You beat me to it... :-) It's "heavy stone" in swedish as well. In Sweden, we normally use the name "Wolfram" for the mineral (which is also where its atomic symbol "W" comes from).

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    2. Re:This can't succeed in Norway by nebby · · Score: 1

      Funny, judging by the weight of "A New Kind of Science", I'd expect it to be the other way around.

      --
      --
    3. Re:This can't succeed in Norway by Krilomir · · Score: 1

      An in Danish for that matter - I don't think it'll have that big an impact though...

    4. Re:This can't succeed in Norway by Hans · · Score: 1

      Well, funnily enough the prototype of this thing was called Oslo, which is the capital of Norway if i'm not mistaken :)

  17. Hey it wasn't FAKE by arcadum · · Score: 1, Informative
    Looks like Thisstory was nothing but true...

    Keep it comming...

  18. Tungsten W by Frac · · Score: 2, Informative

    For some reason the Tungsten W (Palm's answer to Handspring's Treo) is not featured on Palm's website, nor is it accessible from the products page.

    However, the URL for Tungsten W is pretty easy to guess - http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-w/

    1. Re:Tungsten W by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In latin America they had a hell of a time trying to sell a car named Nova.

      vm

    2. Re:Tungsten W by krin · · Score: 1

      It's also featured on the 'products page' as of 1:05am EST. There is a pretty large graphic link on the side of the page.. no clue if it was recently added or everyone just didn't see it (which I highly doubt).

      --
      There is no spork.
    3. Re:Tungsten W by BurritoWarrior · · Score: 2

      Methinks a trip to the eye doc is in order... :)

      http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/ has a big ole picture and link to the Tungsten-W.

    4. Re:Tungsten W by Frac · · Score: 1

      oi!

      seriously, it wasn't there when I checked earlier :)

    5. Re:Tungsten W by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      They're not shipping the W yet, not until early next year apparently.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  19. Sounds good... I guess by steveha · · Score: 5, Informative

    If Palm really was losing sales to PocketPC, then this is exactly what they need. But it doesn't make me want to run out and buy one.

    What I have always liked best about Palm PDAs is that they run forever on their batteries. Palm is claiming the new device is good for a week of typical use, but how much is that? The InfoSync review notes that under a torture test, the battery life was a little under 3 hours.

    I was pleased to read that the emulation mode runs current PalmOS programs fast enough. Recompiled applications should be very fast.

    While in many ways it sounds tasty, I don't really want one right now. And the price is going to need to fall in half before I'll even consider it.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:Sounds good... I guess by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      You have to consider that, under real normal use the device spends most of its time in processor-sleep mode. Sure, if you thrash the CPU for a while, it'll run the batteries down.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    2. Re:Sounds good... I guess by loshwomp · · Score: 1
      I was pleased to read that the emulation mode runs current PalmOS programs fast enough. Recompiled applications should be very fast.

      Not just "fast enough", but way faster, since the OS itself is not emulated, and most applications spend most of their time inside OS calls.

  20. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by Powercntrl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With the way cell phones are advancing, why buy one? Cell phones already have games, messaging, logs, and other electronic accessories.

    "Those Slashdot editors are right... If I had moderator points - bam!"

    Your post is blatant flamebait. Cell phones are NOT PDAs for SEVERAL reasons:

    Games and other applications are tightly controlled by the cell phone provider. While you may be able to find "cellphone Java" (the name of the Java variant they run escapes me) applications, good luck getting them to download to your phone. Cell phones ALREADY HAVE the worst of what we expect Palladium to be. If an app isn't signed and delivered (usually with a FEE) to your cell phone by your cell phone provider, you're not getting it on there. Another nice feature of some applications is that they expire or require you to be using Internet airtime minutes while they're running. Even if you want to download something as simple as images or ringtones to your phone, you're likely to be hit with a download fee and only able to download from your cell phone provider or a company that has an agreement with your provider.

    Next comes the issue of getting data onto your phone... The screen is small and the entry interface (press each button over, and over, and over) is awful. You can't begin to compare it to the Palm or any other PDA at all.

    Cell phones are designed to be a glorified phonebook and self-setting clock if you don't pay for service. The providers nickel and dime you for every feature you're used to getting for FREE with a PDA or portable PC device. If you want wireless communication - get a cell phone. If you want a personal digital assistant - get a Palm.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
  21. Sliding design by Winterblink · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The slide-open design is kind of nifty, but I have concerns about durability. Moving parts are typically the first things to go, but in the case of this, it's not like a flip-cover or something that can be easily replaced.

    --
    "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
    -Hoban Washburn
    1. Re:Sliding design by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 2

      My concern is the fact that it will make the PDA thicker. PDA's don't need to be shorter, they need to be thinner.

  22. Form factor just isn't there yet. by sbwoodside · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First of all you need a *headset* not a handset. Who the heck is going to carry around a handset when they already have a cell phone inside the W? That doesn't make sense.

    Secondly, they're just showing that no one gets the form factor yet. I don't want to have a headset sticking in my ear all the time, but I don't want to hold a big-ass product like the Treo up to my head either (talk about dorky-looking). The new RIM blackberry has a better idea ... just hold the thing to your head without any flip up plastic crap.

    They still miss the mark though. I'm going to get my cheekmarks all over the screen and that's no good.

    I don't know what the right formfactor is, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe some kind of clamshell design where the keyboard's on the bottom and the screen's on the top. IT'll open 75% in phone mode, like a startac or whatever, or it'll open 100% in palm mode.

    1. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 2

      Secondly, they're just showing that no one gets the form factor yet. I don't want to have a headset sticking in my ear all the time, but I don't want to hold a big-ass product like the Treo up to my head either (talk about dorky-looking). The new RIM blackberry has a better idea ... just hold the thing to your head without any flip up plastic crap.

      Handspring tried that approach with the VisorPhone. Believe me, if you think the Treo looks dorky held up to your ear, the Visorphone/RIM approach is ten times worse.

      I honestly don't get the complaints about the Treo's size. At worst, it's a smidgen larger than a StarTAC (and is shaped about the same), and nobody ever complained about them being funny-looking.

      --

      News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

    2. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The headset is nice because it let's you interact with the palm WHILE continuing with your conversation. If it is held up to your ear, you can't interact with it.

    3. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by Octagon+Most · · Score: 1

      True. Especially for this category of device where you are likely to be entering or looking up information during a voice call. But it is nice to be able to pull a rinning phone out of your pocket and quickly answer it at your ear. If a headset is required then you end up struggling to unwind the cord, which will of course create at least one knot, and missing the call before getting everything in place.

    4. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I don't want to have a headset sticking in my ear all the time, How about just stick it in when you want to talk? What is needed is a convienent place to store this headset. An earbud (with perhaps bluetooth for wireless) need not be all that big.

      Futhermore, "hands free" is very likely to be a requirement in most states (in the U.S.) pretty soon for driving. You'll need to buy a headset anyway. The questions is really do you want to operate that way all the time.

      All PDAs are going to be defective as a phone that you hold to your face. Don't want a any reasonable screen next to my face. It doesn't hurt to keep the transmitter away from my brain either. :-)

      This has everything to do with apropriately assigned function and little to do with "form factor" proper.

    5. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by Nomad7674 · · Score: 2

      If you ask me the Kyocera 7135 is the one with right form factor (though the Samsung i500 is similar). They understand that a SmartPhone needs to be a phone FIRST and a PDA second - without surrendering on the power.

    6. Re:Form factor just isn't there yet. by rthille · · Score: 2

      Headsets are good, because if you're holding your PDA to your ear, how are you using it to take notes? With a headset, I can talk to someone and take notes on my PDA at the same time.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
  23. Ogg player! by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is the first Palm PDA that will have an Ogg player. It has enough horsepower under the hood to run a software MP3 decoder, so an Ogg player will be possible. Which in turn means that someone will write one!

    I wonder how many hours of life you will get from one battery while playing Ogg or MP3 music, with the screen blanked.

    You could carry some sort of emergency charger that uses AA cells or something. But that sort of defeats the smallness and convenience; you might as well carry some small player like the Diva.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  24. naive by TerraFrost · · Score: 4, Informative
    The new OS allows Palms to begin catching-up with some of the things rival Pocket PCs can do, such as watching short video clips, downloading digital audio or photo files and even playing graphics-intensive interactive games.

    My Palm m505 already has video clips on it, thanks to MGI's PhotoSuite, which came *included* with the Palm m505. As for it being able to do wave files... so what? PCM Wave files are big. One song takes around 40mb. With 16mb, we'll only be getting maybe audio clips of thirty seconds. So what's the point of having it? And one last gripe... graphics-intensive games are also usually space intensive - Diablo 2 didn't come on 3 CD's because of it's story line, I can tell you that much!

    1. Re:naive by Jage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, use GSM compression @ 16kbps. 14MB will give you then almost 120 minutes. The microphone can't be much better anyways, you're not really even losing quality. It also said it has SecureDigital reader... The biggest SD-cards are now 512MB, they're going to have even 4GB cards later on.

      Diablo 2 is mostly big because of the cutscenes and very stupidly compressed graphics. You can make graphics intensive games even in 8MB, check just about any older console that still used cartidges (or a bit older arcade machines). Or games like original Tomb Raider (8-9MB).

    2. Re:naive by batemanm · · Score: 1
      The biggest SD-cards are now 512MB, they're going to have even 4GB cards later on

      Does anyone else find that a little scary. My first PC had a 120 meg hard drive and that seemed huge at the time, plenty for all my needs Now we are talking about carrying around 512 meg in our PDAs. Come on ppl does anyone know enough ppl to fill 512meg with contacts? Seriously what would you fill that with? Books? movies?

    3. Re:naive by Octagon+Most · · Score: 1
      "Now we are talking about carrying around 512 meg in our PDAs.... Seriously what would you fill that with?"

      Dude, this is Slashdot. You know the answer to that.

  25. Zaurus - more value for your money by vlad_petric · · Score: 5, Informative
    Really, at ~390$ (Amazon) you get a 320x240 screen, 200 MHz Intel StrongArm processor, 64 MB RAM, and more preinstalled applications (Jeode JVM & Hancom Office are the notable ones). Not to mention that it's powered by Linux/embedix (should it be called GNU/Linux embedix ?), and, as a consequence, there are quite a few opensource applications for it.

    The Raven

    --

    The Raven

    1. Re:Zaurus - more value for your money by archen · · Score: 1

      Does the Zaurus have any sort of graffiti(tm) input? Most of what I've seen you have to input stuff using that small keyboard (which I'm not so particular on).

    2. Re:Zaurus - more value for your money by SirAnodos · · Score: 1

      I gotta say, I'm tempted to get a Zaurus. My main worry was lack of software, but I keep reminding myself that Zaurus is Linux, and there are already many applications ported to work with the unit. And if it doesn't have an app I want, I could probably port it myself. I saw one of these at the store the other day and just loved how beautiful it looked, including the screen.

    3. Re:Zaurus - more value for your money by kikta · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's on screen, so you can see what you're writing. I like it a lot better. You can see what the manual (pdf) says about it (page 37), but I'd also recommend trying it out in a store. It's what I use primarily. The keyboard is just icing on the cake...

    4. Re:Zaurus - more value for your money by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      I've tried the Zaurus. I'm sorry, but the software on that thing is crap. The UI is way too clunky, it's like they were trying to clone PocketPC.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    5. Re:Zaurus - more value for your money by leandrod · · Score: 2

      But is the Sharp Zaurus a GSM and GPRS phone?

      The day I can buy a GSM and GPRS GNU/Linux SIM phone to use in the Orange network in Switzerland I will be a happy geek. If it runs Gnome or at least Gtk+ so much the better.

      --
      Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
      DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
      GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
  26. Cellular carriers by Graabein · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Palm will be announcing cellular carriers for the W in the near future.

    Begging your pardon? Isn't this a GSM phone? Do the US carriers lock users in even on GSM networks? What's the point of having GSM then if you can't use whatever phone you like on whatever network you want and roam freely?

    We may be behind the US on a lot of things here in Europe, but at least we got that right. My cellular carrier doesn't care, and it's none of their business, what kind of phone I use and where I bought it.

    Speaking of my phone, I own a Nokia 7650. Can't see replacing it for the new Palm anytime soon, the Nokia does the same job in a smaller package.

    --
    And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
    1. Re:Cellular carriers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Palm will be announcing cellular carriers for the W in the near future.


      They will be announcing carriers that will sell you the new device at a subsidized price. I think US GSM carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T, and Cingular) do lock the devices they sell, but will likely sell you a SIM card for use with your own device.

    2. Re:Cellular carriers by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      "but at least we got that right"

      No, you didn't. One standard is great, but in the long run competing standards are more benificial. Look at CDMA - there are several healthy CDMA carriers in the US (Sprint, Verizion, etc.), and there are several TDMA/GSM carriers (ATT, T-Mobile). No, you can't use any phone on any service. No, that doesn't matter - phones are pretty much free over here. Some carriers do lock SIM cards, but most carriers don't even use them. I don't know about prices in Europe but I do know that they are falling like plutonium bricks over here. You can choose how you want your cellular too, unlimited local usage for $32/month (Cricket), pre-pay (ATT, Virgin Mobile, Others), free nights/weekends (several carriers), lots of "anytime" minutes (several carriers), no roaming/long distance (Sprint, ATT, others), mobile internet (Verizion, Sprint, AT&T, others), SMS (almost all carriers), etc.

      OK, it's nice to have one standard for a whole continent. But, when comparing size and population, the US is pretty much the same as Western Europe. Everytime someone brags about having universal service throughout Europe, I respond with the fact that our service is pretty universal also. Coverage is pretty good, no matter what carrier you use. OK, so you can't use your AT&T phone if you want to switch to Verizion. Big deal, Verizion is perfectly happy to give you a free or nearly free phone.

      Cellular service is different here. We are not Europe, and we do not try to be Europe. For better or worse, the government pretty much keeps it's hands out of things (although that is slowly changing). Instead of forcing one communication standard, the government has let the market decide. Ultimately, CDMA will probably win. Europe is stuck with TDMA GSM service. Why is CDMA better? Mostly because it can handle two to three times more calls per channel. CDMA is a better technology; even the European carriers recognize this (and are rushing to change their networks). I am not sure about costs today, but in the long run mobile phone service in the US will be cheaper than it is in Europe. It happened here with long distance (remember 25 cents a minute?), and it will happen with cellular service. Switching to CDMA is not hard in the US because we never had a standard. Sprint was CDMA from the start. No standard = best technology wins. Unfortunately, no standard = chaos. Until a few years ago, US cellular service was a joke - mostly analog service, with terrible digital coverage. Europe laughed, with good reason - our system sucked. Then CDMA came out, and carriers began to use it. CDMA put the heat on, and carriers responded with digital TDMA that didn't stink. The cellular systems in this country became digital almost overnight.

      So, no, I can't take my SIM out and use my phone with a different carrier. But there are really only two GSM carriers, and GSM is not the wireless standard in the US. There really is no standard over here, which is a mixed blessing. Ultimately, however, the customer will win. TDMA is going to go away in the US; even AT&T will eventually migrate their network to CDMA.

      I wouldn't have it any other way.

    3. Re:Cellular carriers by OAB · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So what you are saying is that competition is great, as it comes up with the same answer, it just takes longer and costs more in the interim.

    4. Re:Cellular carriers by Graabein · · Score: 2
      > Ultimately, CDMA will probably win. Europe is stuck with TDMA GSM service. Why is CDMA better?

      For an insightful comment on CDMA see this article in The Register.

      > CDMA is a better technology; even the European carriers recognize this (and are rushing to change their networks).

      Say what? Which carriers are that? References, URLs please?

      --
      And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
  27. decent hardware, hamstrung OS by g4dget · · Score: 5, Informative
    The hardware looks pretty decent; I suppose you pay a premium for the compact size.

    However, the software isn't all that great. Basically, under PalmOS 5, your application code runs as interpreted 68k instructions. Only system calls and some specially written subroutines (which, presumably, cannot make system calls), run as native ARM code. Presumably, this will get fixed with PalmOS 6.

    What apparently won't get fixed is the basic PalmOS architecture. PalmOS was designed as a very lightweight OS for simple PDA applications: calendaring, TODO lists, etc., on very simple devices. It was fine for that: small and memory efficient.

    But $500 devices like the Tungsten are in a different class. With ARM processors, they are more powerful than many workstations of a few years ago. You don't need that kind of device for basic PDA functionality--just buy a $100 Zire instead.

    The reason why people pay $500 for a PDA is either because they want an executive toy, or it is for running "enterprise applications", multimedia apps, scientific apps, speech recognition, etc. And for that, PalmOS just sucks: the window system and toolkit are resolution dependent and simplistic, the file system is a hack, the system lacks installers or package managers, multitasking is poor, image support is poor, and on and on.

    So, what does it all mean? If you want a PDA, get a Sony SJ-30 or a Palm Zire, or a Palm m500--they are great PDAs with great built-in apps. If you want a handheld to develop custom apps for, to port software to, etc., get a Linux PDA (or a PocketPC if you must)--you'll pay less and get something that's a whole lot better for the purpose.

    1. Re:decent hardware, hamstrung OS by Metrol · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ...get a Linux PDA

      Would have loved to. Only thing is, none of the Linux based PDA's provide any software for actually syncing to a Linux desktop! ACK! Okay, so I actually run FreeBSD on my desktop, but the same applies.

      Bottom line, the only reasonable way to put a PDA to use today for a Unix user is to buy a Palm. Need Windows to actually use a Linux PDA... irony outta control or what?

      --
      The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
    2. Re:decent hardware, hamstrung OS by g4dget · · Score: 4, Informative
      Would have loved to. Only thing is, none of the Linux based PDA's provide any software for actually syncing to a Linux desktop! ACK!

      They actually do: because they just run Linux and store things in a Linux file system, you can use any of a large number of methods for synchronizing (rsync, unison, NFS, etc.) and remote access (ssh, X11, VNC, etc.).

      the only reasonable way to put a PDA to use today for a Unix user is to buy a Palm

      Well, as I was saying, for basic PDA functionality using the built-in Palm applications, I agree.

      My point is: for anything beyond basic PDA functionality, PalmOS is not a good platform, at least not in the near future. And for custom or third party apps apps, you don't get any support from Palm for hotsyncing on Linux anyway--you are definitely better off there with Linux and Linux tools.

    3. Re:decent hardware, hamstrung OS by leandrod · · Score: 2
      > If you want a handheld to develop custom apps for, to port software to, etc., get a Linux PDA

      I would love to. Where can I get a SIM GSM GPRS GNU/Linux PDA & cellphone in Switzerland that will run on the Orange network?

      --
      Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
      DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
      GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
  28. Cool features for the enterprise by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Well, they are cool regardless but targeted at enterprise use:

    The CD also includes BlueChat and BlueBoard. BlueBoard is a Bluetooth-based whiteboard-type image editing program. Users create an on-the-fly conference and can then all edit the same same on-screen image simultaneously. BlueChat is a Bluetooth-based chat program that allows users to create ad-hoc local IRC-like chatrooms with any users in range. We foresee a lot of employees talking about a presenter behind their backs this way.

    I think the T sounds liek a great device. I like the features, the clever form factor (the telescoping stylus sounds great) and I love the idea of bluetooth support in a Palm and what can be done with it.

    I also really like the idea of the web portal Palm provides to let you really browse the web without consuming a lot of bandwith. That is a perfect feature for a handheld meant to be networked. The only missing ingredient (which I assume will be around soon if it's not already here) is a bluetooth hub to give local bluetooth devices network connectivity (just like 802.11 hubs, but instead could act as a repeater to give bluetooth devices more range in an office).

    Although an integrated phone/palm seems like a good idea, for my own needs I think I like better the idea of a really good PDA and a really good phone in two seperate devices.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  29. DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Am i the only one that thinks the end is near for Palm? I mean, come on- look at the economoy in the US right now. Extra, expensive and frivilous items of luxury (at 499 I would say so) are probably the first things to get the axe when times are tight. I bought an m500 when it first came out and returned it after a few days because I thought the screen's visibility was a joke. I now happily own a Vx. It's showing its age now, but it still does all that I need it to do.

    1. Re:DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well usually they start the product cycle when the economy is better or they think it will pick up, then 18 months later they have to bring it to market, whatever the environment. If the economy is soft, then, too bad.

      As an example, two years ago I began working on a novel type of penis extender (I even have a patent, #7342132) and just when I was ready to "unleash" it upon the world, BAM! Terrorism strikes! So you can imagine how hard it was to sell penis extenders in a post-9/11 context. The market is still soft, though I hope it will firm up again soon, even if the demand just comes in spurts.

      If any /. readers are interested, I have plenty of inventory, along with my unsold Osama Bin Laden urinal pucks. I can throw those in for free.

    2. Re:DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1998: Apple is dying! Palm is dying!
      1999: Apple is dying! Palm is dying!
      2000: Apple is dying! Palm is dying!
      2001: Apple is dying! Palm is dying!
      2002: Apple is dying! Palm is dying!
      2003: etc.

    3. Re:DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is not Palm, you dipshit.

  30. yes but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    does it support USB or Firewire?. That's what I'd like to know.

    I'd like a palm computer I can hook my iPod up to. Don't ask me why.

    1. Re:yes but... by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      USB.

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  31. I couldn't agree more by kikta · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It was $334 when I bought it at Buy.com two months ago ($347.99 now) & I've fallen in love. Seriously, I thought they were kidding when I read the specs for the new Palms. Compare it to the Zaurus specs and decide for yourself...

    1. Re:I couldn't agree more by llin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hmm on one spec where 'bigger' isn't better...

      Tungsten T: 101 x 77 x 15 mm
      Zaurus: 138 x 74 x 21 mm

      No built-in bluetooth either. Although wi-fi is easier to hook up with the CF slot.

      That being said, your PDA decision isn't all about hardware. The breadth and depth of Palm peripherals and software is pretty compelling.

    2. Re:I couldn't agree more by kikta · · Score: 2

      I can still fit my Zaurus inside my front pocket on a normal pair of jeans. Also, the apps availible for the Zaurus are pretty extentsive, since it is linux-based and supports Java. It also supports the ipkg packaging system designed for those running Linux on their iPaq's. So there's some more apps for you. I have yet to find an app that the Palm has that I can't get an equivalent of. And show me a Palm that can run a bash shell. :-D As far as the Palm peripherals, the only one that I find myself longing for is the GPS add-on. And with Palm releasing a P.O.S. like the Tungsten, how long will that last?

      P.S. The Zaurus's input methods kick the shit out of the Palm's. On-screen stylus entry, where you can actually see the letter you're writing? Awesome. Built in QWERTY keyboard? Sweet.

  32. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. Thank you! by SexyKellyOsbourne · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    You just changed my mind... I'm going to get a nice cell phone now instead of a Tungsten.

  35. Uses TI chipset ??? by krazyninja · · Score: 2
    I believe this is one of the first devices to use the OMAP platform from TI. They started this collaboration last year. Press release here.

    --
    "Do something man. Right now."
  36. Why 16mb?? by Jeffv323 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM.

    WHY do even the newest PDA's on the market still come with 16mb of memory?? I mean seriously, when I can get a 128mb CF card for ~$50, you'd think that a $500 palm with multimedia capabilities might have a little more room to work with than a fscking 386!

    --
    I'm a minister!
    1. Re: Why 16mb?? by dne · · Score: 1

      I suppose you've never considered the difference between Flash and RAM technology?

    2. Re: Why 16mb?? by shepd · · Score: 1

      >I suppose you've never considered the difference between Flash and RAM technology?

      No, as they're the same thing, with a different package.

      Or at least Palm treats them the same, according to the co-worker that owns a clie.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    3. Re:Why 16mb?? by biglig2 · · Score: 2

      Well, Palm apps are very small. So 16Mb is a reasonable ammount for a Palm. They could of course up the RAM, but doing so will impact the battery life to a surprising ammount.

      The usual practice is to keep your applications and PDA data on the Palm, for which the 8Mb in my M505 is probably plenty, and then use a cheap MMC card (MMC is imperceptibly slower than SD cards but much cheaper) to store any sizable data, such as e-books, dictionaries, databases, PDFs, or with the new ones perhaps MP3 files (once someone writes an MP3 player for the Tungsten).

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    4. Re:Why 16mb?? by thenerd · · Score: 1

      WHY do even the newest PDA's on the market still come with 16mb of memory?

      This just isn't true luckily! Hell, every other type of PDA has been storming ahead of Palms.

      For example, the Toshiba e570 has been out FOR A YEAR and has 64MB. As well as a full colour 320x240 screen. And an SD card slot. And a compactflash slot.

      --
      The camels are coming. I'm in love.
  37. jokes... by drDugan · · Score: 0, Troll

    I've been making jokes aabout faster f$cking palm pilots for a while now. Oh joy. Just what humanity needs: faster palm pilots.


    We watched the tragedy unfold
    We did as we were told
    We bought and sold
    It was the greatest show on earth
    But then it was over
    We ohhed and aahed
    We drove our racing cars
    We ate our last few jars of caviar
    And somewhere out there in the stars
    A keen-eyed look-out
    Spied a flickering light
    Our last hurrah
    And when they found our shadows
    Grouped around the TV sets
    They ran down every lead
    They repeated every test
    They checked out all the data on their lists
    And then the alien anthropologists
    Admitted they were still perplexed
    But on eliminating every other reason
    For our sad demise
    They logged the only explanation left
    This species has amused itself to death

  38. Amateur Radio by Kirkoff · · Score: 2

    Was I the only one who saw the clockspeed and thought it would be a fun idea to take a directional and an amplifier and see what happens when one is inbetween you and the local repeater?

    --Josh

    --
    There are exactly 42,935,718 letter sized sheets in a square mile.
    1. Re:Amateur Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No but if you hum a few bars, I'll see what I can do.

    2. Re:Amateur Radio by spinkham · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes.

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    3. Re:Amateur Radio by Kirkoff · · Score: 2

      Oh well...

      --
      There are exactly 42,935,718 letter sized sheets in a square mile.
  39. MOD PARENT UP!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, don't. I just felt like saying that.

  40. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by wheany · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Games and other applications are tightly controlled by the cell phone provider. While you may be able to find "cellphone Java" (the name of the Java variant they run escapes me) applications, good luck getting them to download to your phone.
    At school we have tested Java MIDP-applications on several phones, and the easiest phones to install to have been Nokia and Motorola. With Nokia 7650 you can use GPRS, Bluetooth or IR (at least) to load the apps (and ringtones :-) ), and with Motorola Accompli 008(?) you can use the cable that you use when you synchronize your phone and desktop.

    With Siemens M50 we have not been able to load any midlets by any means. We even set up a WAP-server, but the phone just hangs.

    But I wouldn't say the applications are tightly controlled by the provider, I don't think they are actively trying to hinder people, I just think some are being stupid with how you can install them.
  41. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by gl4ss · · Score: 2

    more like, zaurus is sweeter with sweeter specs and cheaper.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  42. GNU/Linux embedix by BESTouff · · Score: 1

    It certainly shouldn't be called GNU/whatever ... there are loads of proprietary software in there (e.g. Opera)

  43. Re:The form factor is not there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First has you to need a * earphone * is not the handset. Neighbor who oh payment handset when they already did have a handset inside W? That does not have the truth.

    Next, they are nobody obtain the form factor just exhibition. I continuously do not want to have the earphone to mount the morning to attach in mine ear, but I do not want to adopt a big donkey product or (discuss dorky to look like Treo by an ore decision). Newly flows out the boundary black raspberry to have a better idea... to lift the conduct not to discuss the nonsense any flip plastic with yours head.

    They though had still missed the mark. I obtain my cheekmarks screen and that am not everywhere good.

    I did not know is any correct formfactor, but I have not seen it. Possible some kind of keyboards in base and screen in OEabove s shape components design. IT'll opens 75% under the telephone way, likes startac or any, or it will open 100% under the palm way. Move every "zig".

  44. Re:the honest hardware, OS which hinders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, it looks like someone ran the parent article through an online translator twice or something. Any ideas?

  45. Re:the honest hardware, OS which hinders by silvaran · · Score: 2

    Any ideas?

    Hmm... how about... moderate down? ;).

  46. Model name in Scandinavia? by Echo5ive · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Tung sten" means literally "heavy rock" in Swedish. I wouldn't buy a hand computer called that.

    --
    Leveling up builds character.
    1. Re:Model name in Scandinavia? by smart.id · · Score: 1

      Tungsten is an element, recognized by people internationally on the periodic table of elements.

      --
      blog & fiction: jd87
  47. Tungsten/Wolfram by sita · · Score: 1

    Where Tungsten is Wolfram, Tungsten is the name of the mineral you find the element in.

  48. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by Max+von+H. · · Score: 2
    Cell phones ALREADY HAVE the worst of what we expect Palladium to be. If an app isn't signed and delivered (usually with a FEE) to your cell phone by your cell phone provider, you're not getting it on there.


    This is complete FUD! You can also and very easily use a data cable to manage and transfer images, melodies and games if you have a data cable and it won't cost you anything. I do it all the time with my Siemens ME45. Also, I believe network operators aren't so keen on letting viruses/worms running wild on free downloads for freakin' mobile phones! Imagine the mayhem in countries with over 80% of the population having a mobile phone! Tech support hell! Most mobile phone owners aren't control-freak geeks, they just want to follow the instructions and get their game or whatever on their phone and have it running within a minute, period. Since most phones in circulation are under warranty, no wonder operators and manufacturers limit the kind of apps you can get, after all it'll cost *them* if *you* screw it up! If you really need a particular applet (you can even make yours!), use a data cable.

    As to the download fee, it costs about the same than a couple of standard SMS to transfer a ringtone, logo or whatever you want and you may download from whatever source you want! As long as they support your phone, there shouldn't be any problem, no matter where they are. And if you want to transfer more, there are chances you'll use HSCSD or GPRS data transfer, in which case you shouldn't worry about the fractional costs of said games/ringtones/etc, given what you're already shelling monthly for all the services. I mean, you're not gonna have Kazaa running on it, right? There aren't *that many* games you can download yet and phones have limited memory.

    Is it perhaps that you don't agree with paying for software or even paying for the data transfer? Wait for 3G or WiFi phones to pay a flat fee (hopefully) and stop bitching then!

    Next comes the issue of getting data onto your phone... The screen is small and the entry interface (press each button over, and over, and over) is awful. You can't begin to compare it to the Palm or any other PDA at all.


    Ever heard of T9? Works in my phone's agenda for data entry, damn quick. Sure it doesn't replace my real agenda (pen and paper, thank you) but is useful for setting alarms to important things. Oh, it also syncs Addressbook (complete Vcards) and agenda with Outlook (yuk) smoothly out of the box. May I suggest you try a better mobile phone before dismissing all of them?

    Some cell phones, such as my Siemens, have decent enough PDA fuctionalities so that I don't feel the need for getting a new Palm (my IIIx being dead). The phone and a paper agenda do the trick perfectly and I only need a power outlet once a week to recharge the phone's battery. Also, I have one less worry about breaking the Palm and losing all my stuff, my phone is a ruggerised version which doesn't fear falling on concrete or in water. Try that with your Palm! As to the thin paper agenda, well... :)

    You, sir, should open your eyes at what phone manufacturers produce nowadays, rather than basing your opinion on your 3 year-old Nokia. Heck, PDAs have already merged with cell phones, why not the opposite, to a limited level? Some manufacturers do it better than others. I suggest you visit the Siemens mobile phones site, their phones have much geekier functions than Nokia (except Communicator) and Sony/Ericsson ones.

    Cheers,
    max
    --
    -- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
  49. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    Your post is correct, but the basic Premise of the origional poster is still correct...

    There s nothing that these do that my old Palm III doesn't do other than the useless multimedia eye/ear candy. Palm made a HUGE mistake when they atarted making palm pilots.. they made them too good. I see many palm users still using their old devices and not buying new... I foolishly bought a Journada 420 back in 2000... I just gave it away to my ex-step-son last night It cost 3 times what my palm IIIx cost me, had a much faster processor, was color, etc... but completely and totally sucked compated to the palm pilot because of the instability of WinCE and how horibly slow it is compared to a palm device. (as well as the conduits and synch software really stinks/sucks/etc....)

    I have tried many of the new palm and paml clone devices... the Treo 90 is really cool and the addition of a keyboard is plain awesome.... but I'm going to stay with my Palm IIIx until it dies or get's broken... as there is no other reason to buy another palm device....

    Palm got it right the first time.... why should I replace a perfectly useable device that I am quite happy and comfortable with?

    So you are right on the phones (I used to have a Qualicomm frankenstine that was phone+palm... it sucked!) but the other guys is also right.... no need whatsoever to buy a new one.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  50. Check out the New SONY Clies based on the ARM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Check the new Sony Clie's PEG-NX70V/NX60V. Looks much nicer than the Palm.
    Her's the specs and check the link belwo for a tasty screen shot of the PDA and palm OS5

    Model
    PEG-NX70V/NX60V
    Palm OS® software v. 5.0*1
    On-board CPU 200 MHz
    Memory 16 MB RAM/ 16 MB (ROM)
    Built-in digital camera (310,000 effective pixels) 640 x 480 pixels (VGA)
    Video recording and playback*2 (MPEG4)
    Integrated wireless communication slot*3
    High resolution TFT color display (320 x 480 pixels)
    Voice recorder function

    http://www.twomobile.com/content/1305.php

    Harjtt

    : o )>

  51. Re:Don't even think about buying one. by ecki · · Score: 1

    Your post is blatant flamebait

    ... and you took the bait then and on top of that reply with flamebait yourself?

    Seriously, what you describe is not a problem with cell phones per se but with the applications. As an example, with the new Symbian-based phones, the business model is cleary to have an open platform for which anybody can develop apps. Or port something really useful.

  52. What is this 14MB==16MB thing? by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Is 2MB shared for video or something like that? 2MB is a significant amount of space to be overlooking.

    Also, did anyone else notice that the "T" logo they use is remarkably similar to the Japanese symbol for Post Office? Maybe it will be a point of confusion or ridicule in Japan.

  53. There ARE phones that sync ... by lkk17 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, yes, I can enter information into my computer and sync it to my phone. Wirelessly.

    I have an Ericsson T68m and a Mac with a bluetooth adapter, and I use iSync to sync them. It also syncs my work and home Macs, and my old Palm V, and my iPod, so that a change made on one of them is updated on them all.

    The T68m can also beam appointments and business cards to Palms via infrared.

    Maybe this is what you're looking for? Wait, you're saying you don't use a Mac? Oh, well ...

    1. Re:There ARE phones that sync ... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      actually I do have a mac, but I do not use apple computer's operating system on it..

      great use for a Power Pc!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  54. Which Qualcomm? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    I'm assuming since you said Qualcomm you meant the pdQ.

    It seems like the pdQ got bashed by reviewers and by users, and overall just sucked. Didn't help that they were all single-band digital only.

    The Kyocera 6035 (Essentially the pdQ version 2) had FAR better phone/Palm integration and is a VERY slick device. http://www.smartphonesource.com/ is the place to go for info and user comments on the phone.

    Note that SMS won't even touch the pdQ. I think a total of 1 member used it and said it was a pretty crappy unit. Everyone LOVES their 6035s (including myself), and are drooling over the upcoming 7135.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  55. Re:Pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bee's what?

  56. Still underpowered. by Guspaz · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    When will Palm learn their lesson and put a decent CPU in their handhelds? PocketPC machines have had 266mhz ARM procs for ages, and recently upgraded to the 400Mhz XScale processor...

  57. Assuming OP has a Sidekick... by jafuser · · Score: 2
    [...] how about backing up your phone to your pc so that when (not if...) your phone breaks you can restore the replacement phone to have the same phone#'s ans setup and other data?

    Assuming the original poster is talking about the new Sidekick, 99% of all of the information is stored on the server, not your client device. Several people in a popular Sidekick forum have already mentioned that they put their SIM card into their replacment and all of the info is instantly there just as it was before.

    have yet to see one that can... you can send your data to a web-page for editing, but it still costs money to transfer it, and you cant back-up phone settings...
    The entire duration of the contract for the SideKick service (1 year) has unlimited data transfer.

    As to most of the other counterpoints in this thread, the SDK is coming soon...

    --
    Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
  58. fallacy of "If you build it they will come" by i0lanthe · · Score: 2

    It has enough horsepower under the hood to run a software MP3 decoder, so an Ogg player will be possible. Which in turn means that someone will write one!

    Hate to break it to you but there are (hotly desired by someone) apps that could fit on older PalmOS models and yet they haven't been written yet. For example I have seen a number of people ask, over the past n years, "why hasn't anyone ported vi?" Heck, there might even be more people who think they want vi than people who think they want ogg.

    Still I do admire your "no matter what I want, someone will code it up for me, for free" optimism. :) There are too many things I've wanted, and had to write myself, for me to ever feel that way.

    --
    "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
    1. Re:fallacy of "If you build it they will come" by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      "why hasn't anyone ported vi?"

      Because EMACS is better? LOL

      Jim 'nothing like a holy war' Coffey

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  59. Size , etc m500 by bored · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, I just purchased my second palm device this weekend. I would have stuck with the old one had it not commited suicide from the top of my gym locker. I'm not a particularly large palm fan. After all for the most part the problem with palm is that you can buy a device from 1997 today for exactly the same price. Ok, the processors are slightly faster and the new devices have more RAM (unless your talking about the zire). Other than that they are pretty much the same.

    On the other hand I stuck with palm because its a useful device. I have a good graphing calculator for it, and I use it like a standard day planner with a book/news reader. My old palm IIIxe was great on batteries. They only required changing once ever few months. Combine that with the fact that the battery monitor accually seemed somewhat accurate meant that I had plenty of warning to change them. I don't want to have to carry a charging station for a week long trip. So, when I went looking for a new one I had a few things I wanted. Higher res, color screen, mp3 player, smaller, faster, more ram.

    Well it turned out I bought a m500 not something with a higher res screen, color, mp3 player, or a device with more ram. I purchased it simply because it was the smallest palm I could find. My second choice was one of the little cli devices because of the higer res screen. The only problem is that for most applications the high res screen seems to be run in low res, the color isn't particularly useful, its nice to have... and its probably about 50% thicker than the m500. The m515 might have been a good choice if it had been the same size as the m500 (its about 30% thicker).

    So in the end the deciding factor was size, my importance factors went something like.
    Size most important, Useful battery life, high res display, ram, color, mp3 playback. In the end I came away from the whole market pretty discusted. The m500 isn't as small as I want (pcmcia card size), it has the same amount of ram(8 megs worked on the old device should contine to work) and the display is the same crappy low res greyscale.

  60. Re:Still underpowered. sugarbitch alarm! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I kept my silence when Mr. Guspaz announced he wanted to slow scientific progress. I did nothing when he tried to distort and trivialize the debate surrounding solecism. But his latest self-fulfilling prophecies are the straw that breaks the camel's back. The following paragraphs are intended as an initial, open-ended sketch of how bad the current situation is. I just want to say that he wants us to believe that terrorism is a viable and vital objective for our nation's educational institutions. How stupid does he think we are? I once asked Guspaz that question -- I am still waiting for an answer. In the meantime, let me point out that we mustn't tolerate the likes of Guspaz. More than that, it doesn't do us much good to become angry and wave our arms and shout about the evils of Guspaz's analects in general terms. If we want other people to agree with us and join forces with us, then we must analyze Guspaz's ebullitions in the manner of sociological studies of mass communication and persuasion.

    * G U S P A Z f u c k s * b u t t h o l e ! ! ! *
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    A`cccccccc|ccccccccccccc|cccccccc\|ccccccc|cccccA
    Zc\ccccccc|c/ccccccc/cc\\\ccc--__c\\ccccccc:ccccZ
    fcc\cccccc\/ccc_--~~cccccccccc~--__|c\ccccc|ccccl
    uccc\cccccc\_-~cccccccccccccccccccc~-_\cccc|cccci
    ccccc\_ccccc\cccccccc_.--------.______\|ccc|ccccc
    kcccccc\ccccc\______//c_c___c_c(_(__;cc\ccc|cccck
    sccccccc\ccc.ccCc___)cc______c(_(____;cc|cc/ccccs
    *ccccccc/\c|cccCc____)/cccccc\c(_____;cc|_/ccccc*
    bcccccc/c/\|cccC____ GUSPAZ Fucks ASS c/cc\ccccc
    ccccc|ccc(ccc_C_____)\______/cc//c_/c/ccccc\ccco
    tccccc|cccc\cc|__ccc\\_________//c(__/ccccccc|ccc
    tcccc|c\cccc\____)ccc`----ccc--'ccccccccccccc|cck
    hcccc|cc\_cccccccccc___\ccccccc/_cccccccccc_/c|c*
    occc|cccccccccccccc/cccc|ccccc|cc\cccccccccccc|c!
    lccc|ccccccccccccc|cccc/ccccccc\cc\ccccccccccc|c!
    eccc|cccccccccc/c/cccc|ccccccccc|cc\ccccccccccc|!
    !ccc|ccccccccc/c/cccccc\__/\___/cccc|cccccccccc|!
    !cc|ccccccccccc/cccccccc|cccc|ccccccc|ccccccccc|!
    !cc|cccccccccc|ccccccccc|cccc|ccccccc|ccccccccc|!
    * G U S P A Z f u c k s * b u t t h o l e ! ! ! *

    Doesn't Guspaz realize that he is guilty of a shocking display of dishonesty and sophistry? Well, once you begin to see the light, you'll realize that he says that he is a bearer and agent of the Creator's purpose. That's a stupid thing to say. It's like saying that unfounded attacks on character, loads of hyperbole, and fallacious information are the best way to make a point. I agree that some of his jibes raise important questions about future social interactions and their relationship to civil liberties. But I also think that I didn't want to talk about this. I really didn't. But he tries to make us think the way he wants us to think, not by showing us evidence and reasoning with us, but by understanding how to push our emotional buttons. I could substantiate what I'm saying about wretched, materialistic fomenters of revolution, but I don't feel that that's necessary, since we all know what they're like. What this underlines, I think, is that the law is not just a moral stance. It is the consensus of society on our minimum standards of behavior. I have no problem with the manifestly obvious statement that the continuing misunderstandings that some unambitious, hypocritical stubborn-types seem to have merely underscore this point. I have no problem with the idea that Guspaz is so confident in his own intellectual and cultural paradigm that he is blind to global realities. And I have no problem with the special privileges occasionally granted to pesky dweebs. What I do have a problem with are Guspaz's quixotic epithets.

    I'll let you in on a little secret: all the deals he makes are strictly one-way. Guspaz gets all the rights, and the other party gets all the obligations. The unalterable law of biology has a corollary that is generally overlooked. Specifically, we must supply the missing ingredient that could stop the worldwide slide into masochism. Only then can a society free of his snooty remarks blossom forth from the roots of the past. And only then will people come to understand that he likes to cite poll results that "prove" that it is his moral imperative to misdirect our efforts into fighting each other rather than into understanding the nature and endurance of juvenile, execrable absolutism. Really? Have you ever been contacted by one of his pollsters? Chances are good that you have never been contacted and never will be. Otherwise, the polls would show that Guspaz is locked into his present course of destruction. He does not have the interest or the will to change his fundamentally clueless sermons. Given the tenor of our times, it has been brought to my attention that ungrateful, chauvinistic psychopaths have no business here. While this is true, Guspaz's vaporings may have been conceived in idealism, but they quickly degenerated into unpleasant, cruel interventionism.

    The puerile tone used by Guspaz in his put-downs clearly shows what kind of person he really is, but I guess nobody ever explained that to Guspaz's emissaries. The problem, as I see it, is not a question of who the kooks of this society are, but rather that if Guspaz thinks his expositions represent progress, he should rethink his definition of progress. Though jejune emotionalism is not discussed in this letter, much of what I've written applies to that, as well. All he cares about is money. As long as I live, I will be shouting this truth from rooftops and doing everything I can to protect little children from spiteful amnesiacs like him. I contend that the antithesis of indelicate misoneism is moral, religious, and cultural solidarity among the people of a nation, even though that presupposes a dialectical intertwinement to which a dissolute turn of mind is impervious. Don't let yourself be persuaded by hideous hellions who secretly want to advocate pestiferous vituperations.

    I unquestionably wouldn't want to scupper my initiative to lend support to the thesis that I regret not writing this letter sooner. I would, on the other hand, love to announce that we may need to picket, demonstrate, march, or strike to stop Guspaz before he can display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations. But, hey, I'm already doing that with this letter. You can waste all your time arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or you can actually inculcate in the reader an inquisitive spirit and a skepticism about beliefs that Guspaz's hirelings take for granted. You decide.

    For the nonce, he is content to organize a whispering campaign against me. But sometime soon, he will throw us into a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation. Not to be rude or anything, but Guspaz and his buddies are the most tasteless televangelists you can imagine -- and even then, only in your worst nightmares. But what, you may ask, does any of that have to do with the theme of this letter, viz., that it is surely not the intention of Heaven to let him twist our entire societal valuation of love and relationships beyond all insanity? To turn that question around, what exactly is he trying to hide? While I don't know the answer to that particular question, I do know that he talks a lot about denominationalism and how wonderful it is. However, he's never actually defined what it means. How can Guspaz argue for something he's never defined? Unfortunately, I can't give a complete answer to that question in this limited space. But I can tell you that if Guspaz isn't reckless, I don't know who is. If you understand that Guspaz is incapable of handling an adult emotion or a universal concept without first reducing it to something insufferable, ignorant, benighted, and probably saturnine, then you can comprehend that everybody is probably familiar with the cliche that there is honestly no limit to Guspaz's impudence. Well, there's a lot of truth in that cliche. I can repeat with undiminished conviction something I said eons ago: I overheard one of his mercenaries say, "Guspaz's decisions are based on reason." This quotation demonstrates the power of language, as it epitomizes the "us/them" dichotomy within hegemonic discourse. As for me, I prefer to use language to turn random, senseless violence into meaningful action.

    It is immature and stupid of Guspaz to agitate for indoctrination programs in local schools. It would be mature and intelligent, however, to break the mold and stray from the path of conventional wisdom, and that's why I say that if he has spurred us to fight tooth and nail against him, then Guspaz may have accomplished a useful thing. To oppose nepotism, we must oppose immoralism. To oppose irrationalism, we must oppose pauperism. And to oppose Guspaz, we must oppose the most closed-minded converts to totalitarianism you'll ever see.

    Speaking of which, he leads me to believe that he is effete. Guspaz's secret agents probably don't realize that, because it's not mentioned in the funny papers or in the movies. Nevertheless, it's a pity that two thousand years after Christ, the voices of crazy scoundrels like him can still be heard, worse still that they're listened to, and worst of all that anyone believes them. Need I point out that "villainous", "officious", and "daft" seem the most appropriate adjectives to describe Guspaz's viewpoints? Guspaz writes really long and boring letters. Let me rephrase that: The really interesting thing about all this is not that Guspaz's quips oscillate between judgmental, malignant scapegoatism and hate-filled conformism. The interesting thing is that he says that he can achieve his goals by friendly and moral conduct. What he means by this, of course, is that he wants free reign to hasten the destruction of our civilization. In any case, my purpose here is not to dispense justice. Well, okay, it is. But I should point out that you should not ask, "What demons possessed Guspaz to operate on a criminal -- as opposed to a civil disobedience -- basis?", but rather, "Why aren't our children being warned about him in school?". The latter question is the better one to ask, because there is a problem here. A large, satanic, deranged problem.

    Guspaz will encourage a deadly acceptance of intolerance by the end of the decade -- not necessarily by direct action, but by convincing his understrappers to treat people like intrusive ochlocrats. In the past, I've said that some anti-democratic flakes don't have a clue. Were I to make such a generalization today, it would contain a few "weasel words" -- an escape hatch or that indispensable cliche that when one looks at this delirious parade of brain-damaged heavy-metal fans, one instantly thinks of the word "counterdemonstration". But because he and his perfidious, patronizing values should be shunned, I am not ready to retract my conviction or to recant error. For the most part, under the guise of stimulating debate and illuminating diverse perspectives, his sentiments actually sue people at random. Still, I don't care what others say about him. He's still confused, deluded, and he intends to do exactly the things he accuses illiterate ivory-tower academics of doing.

    Guspaz constantly insists that we should all bear the brunt of his actions. But he contradicts himself when he says that the cure for evil is more evil. There's a little-known truth that isn't readily acknowledged by what I call fork-tongued riffraff: There is no such thing as evil in the abstract. It exists only in the evil deeds of evil people like Guspaz. I am astonished by how little integrity and good judgment he possesses. There's really no other conclusion you can reach. Anyway, that's it for this letter. Let Mr. Guspaz read it and weep. Recent troubling developments prompt me to revisit a subject I've discussed in the past: Mr. Guspaz and his plan to produce a large number of thoroughly headstrong extravagancies, most inconsiderate indecencies, and, above all, the most raucous blasphemies against everything that I hold most sacred and most dear. But first, I'm going to jump ahead a bit and talk in general terms about how when he repeated over and over the rumor that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders", his devotees, never too difficult to fool, swallowed it. Then, I'll back up and fill in some of the details. Okay, so to start with the general stuff, in a recent essay, he stated that the kids on the playground are happy to surrender to the school bully. Since the arguments he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn't true. Not only that, but his tracts reek of exhibitionism. I use the word "reek", because I have a problem with his use of the phrase, "We all know that...". With this phrase, Guspaz doesn't need to prove his claim that his words prevent smallpox; he merely accepts it as fact. To put it another way, I stand by what I've written before, that if we are to guide the world into an age of peace, justice, and solidarity, then we must be guided by a healthy and progressive ideology, not by the materialistic and rude ideologies that Guspaz promotes. Show me where it says Guspaz has the right to construct the spectre of a terrible armed threat. Now that I've been exposed to his subliminal psywar campaigns, I must admit that I don't completely understand them. Perhaps I need to get out more. Or perhaps when I first became aware of his covert invasion into our thought processes, all I could think was how I recently informed him that his understrappers help obdurate hippies back up their prejudices with "scientific" proof. Guspaz said he'd "look further into the matter." Well, not too much further; after all, if we are powerless to answer the uppity twaddlers who move inarticulate, insidious boosterism from the shabby fringe into a realm of respectability, it is because we have allowed Guspaz to move increasingly towards the establishment of a totalitarian Earth.

    Oddly enough, Guspaz believes that everything is happy and fine and good only because he has a need to believe that. Stranger still, ancient Greek dramatists discerned a peculiar virtue in being tragic. Guspaz would do well to realize that they never discerned any virtue in being two-faced. He is too disgusting to read the writing on the wall. This writing warns that if you were to try to tell his drones that he has an uncanny ability to entirely miss the point of any given issue, they'd close their eyes and put their hands over their ears. They are, as the psychologists say, in denial. They don't want to hear that if Guspaz is going to make an emotional appeal, then he should also include a rational argument. While this country still has far to go before people are truly judged on the content of their character, Guspaz's demands are based on a denial of reality, on the substitution of a deliberately falsified picture of the world in place of reality. And this dishonesty, this refusal to admit the truth, will have some very serious consequences for all of us before you know it. For all intents and purposes, the only way for Guspaz to redeem himself is to stop being so effete. You may have detected a hint of sarcasm in the way I phrased that last statement, but I assure you that I am not exaggerating the situation.

    The poisonous wine of emotionalism had been distilled long before he entered the scene. Guspaz is merely the agent decanting the poisonous fluid from its bottle into the jug that is world humanity. So don't tell me that it's about time the public realized that they are being duped by him and his trained seals just because he is every bit as audacious as the most self-absorbed big-mouths I've ever seen. The biggest difference between me and Guspaz is that Guspaz wants to palm off our present situation as the compelling ground for worldwide fascism. I, on the other hand, want to sound the bugle of liberty. Even if we accepted his activities, so what? Does that mean that no one is smart enough to see through Guspaz's transparent lies? Of course not.

    I mean, really. Guspaz talks loudly about family values and personal responsibility, but when it comes to backing up those words with actions, all he does is evoke a misdirected response to genuine unresolved grievances. You can observe a definite bias in his tirades relating to sadistic yobbos. I don't think anyone questions that. But did you know that his principles are just another signpost marking our long, steep cultural descent?

    I'm willing to accept that his slurs turn the stomachs of those who know even a little about the real world. I'm even willing to accept that inimical antagonists often act with a mob mentality. But every time he tells his collaborators that things have never been better, their eyes roll into the backs of their heads as they become mindless receptacles of unsubstantiated information, which they accept without question. Since I have promised to be candid, I will tell you candidly that we were put on this planet to be active, to struggle, and to put to rest homophobic and unprofessional ideologies such as Guspaz's. We were not put here to obfuscate the issue so that one can't see what ought to be totally obvious to all, as Guspaz might think.

    This brings us to the dark underside of his witticisms, the side that's known to convince innocent children to follow a path that leads only to a life of crime, disappointment, and destruction. He will open new avenues for the expression of hate eventually -- not necessarily by direct action, but by convincing his spin doctors to empty garbage pails full of the vilest slanders and defamations on the clean garments of honorable people. Frankly, Guspaz's declamations are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because even when Guspaz isn't lying, he's using facts, emphasizing facts, bearing down on facts, sliding off facts, quietly ignoring facts, and, above all, interpreting facts in a way that will enable him to seek temporary tactical alliances with stinking prevaricators in order to break up society's solidarity and cohesiveness. Many people who follow his accusations have come to the erroneous conclusion that his biases are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos. The truth of the matter is that statements like, "Whenever a will-o'-the-wisp of classism, however unreal, turns up anywhere, Guspaz is off at a trot" accurately express the feelings of most of us here.

    In plain, simple-to-understand English, some of us have an opportunity to come in contact with sick, primitive rubes on a regular basis at work or in school. We, therefore, may be able to gain some insight into the way they think, into their values; we may be able to understand why they want to grant jaded, dim-witted slackers the keys to the kingdom. Guspaz says that there's no difference between normal people like you and me and disloyal, obtuse goof-offs. Should we care that large numbers of demented cult leaders actually believe such sanctimonious things? Should we try to convince them otherwise? I don't think so. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I shall not argue that his newsgroup postings are an authentic map of his plan to progressively narrow the sphere of human freedom. Read them and see for yourself.

    I can't predict the future, but I do know this: Whenever anyone states the obvious -- that his deeds are dangerous to the health of a democracy -- discussion naturally progresses towards the question, "To what degree is he going to twist the history, sociology, and anthropology disseminated by our mass media and in our children's textbooks?" Before you answer, let me point out that his remarks always follow the same pattern. He puts the desired twist on the actual facts, ignores inconvenient facts, and invents as many new "facts" as necessary to convince us that I'm too feral to put an end to his evildoing. Although heinous, profligate Huns are relatively small in number compared to the general population, they are rapidly increasing in size and fervor. It's one thing to abet a resurgence of lewd immoralism, but wanting to break down our communities is going too far. If you read Guspaz's writings while mentally out of focus, you may get the sense that we have no reason to be fearful about the criminally violent trends in our society today and over the past ten to fifteen years. But if you read his writings while mentally in focus and weigh each point carefully, it's clear that the reasons that he gives for his sound bites clearly do not correspond with his real motives. If, after hearing facts like that, you still believe that putrid, mad numskulls are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes, then there is sincerely no hope for you. We must overcome the fears that beset us every day of our lives. We must overcome the fear that Guspaz will create widespread hysteria. And to overcome these fears, we must act against injustice, whether it concerns drunk driving, domestic violence, or even feudalism.

    If the human race is to survive on this planet, we will have to remove the misunderstanding that he has created in the minds of myriad people throughout the world. Guspaz wants to blame those who have no power to change the current direction of events. Such intolerance is felt by all people, from every background. He says he's going to obstruct important things within a short period of time. Good old Guspaz. He just loves to open his mouth and let all kinds of things come out without listening to how foolish they sound.

    Who could have guessed that he would insult the intelligence, interests, and life plans of whole groups of people? To put it another way, is he hoping that the readers of this letter won't see the weakness of his argument relative to mine? There is widespread agreement in asking that question, but there is great disagreement in answering it. We need to look beyond the most immediate and visible problems with him. We need to look at what is behind these problems and understand that he wants me to stop trying to compile readers' remarks and suggestions and use them to clarify and correct some of the inaccuracies present in his agendas. Instead, he'd rather I stampede into the abattoir. Sorry, but I don't accept defeat that easily. If Guspaz makes fun of me or insults me, I hear it, and it hurts. But I take solace in the fact that I am still able to create greater public understanding of the damage caused by Guspaz's vaporings. Shame on him for thinking that people like you and me are slovenly! To conclude, things are apt to get worse before they get better. I've seen a number of nasty and lawless-to-the-core things over the years, but Mr. Guspaz's publicity stunts really take the cake. For practical reasons, I have to confine my discussion to areas that have received insufficient public attention or in which I have something new to say. While there is no evidence that it remains to be seen if he will do the entire country a grave disservice before the year is over, it is clear that he wants us to feel sorry for the negligent nutters who insult my intelligence. I suspect we should instead feel sorry for their victims, all of whom know full well that if Guspaz can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. He claims that doing the fashionable thing is more important than life or liberty. Sound suspicious? Improvident is a better word. Guspaz is a myth-generating machine. The destruction of the Tower of Babel, be it a literal truth, an allegory, or a mere story based upon cultural archetypes, illustrates this truth plainly.

    I mean, in a recent essay, he stated that he has the mandate of Heaven to convince people that their peers are already riding the Guspaz bandwagon and will think ill of them if they don't climb aboard, too. Since the arguments he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn't true. Not only that, but the picture I am presenting need not be confined to his prophecies. It applies to everything Guspaz says and does. This is well illustrated in what remains one of the most divisive issues of our day: totalitarianism. Someone needs to keep our courage up. Who's going to do it? Guspaz? I think not.

    Worse yet, he wants to twist the history, sociology, and anthropology disseminated by our mass media and in our children's textbooks. We were put on this planet to be active, to struggle, and to institute change. We were not put here to implement a deluded parody of justice called "Guspaz-ism", as Guspaz might claim. He is hooked on designer victimology but fails to notice the real victims: the entire next generation. Something recently occurred to me that might occur to Guspaz, as well, if he would just turn down the volume of his voice for a moment: Guspaz has, on a number of occasions, expressed a desire to turn a deaf ear to need and suffering. On all of these occasions, I submitted to the advice of my friends, who assured me that even if one is opposed to hateful propagandism (and I am), then surely, the reason he wants to hold annual private conferences in which irascible oafs are invited to present their "research" is that he's utterly salacious. If you believe you have another explanation for his pea-brained, morally crippled behavior, then please write and tell me about it. Naturally, Guspaz prefers to see problems talked to death instead of solved. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: Guspaz apparently wants to use us to fulfill his splenetic mission.

    We are at a crossroads. One road leads into the light of a bright, shining future in which manipulative simpletons like Guspaz are completely absent. The other road leads into the darkness of commercialism. The question, therefore, is: Who's driving the bus? It's an interesting question, and its examination will help us understand how Guspaz's mind works. Let me start by providing evidence that if Guspaz thinks that he can make me cry, then he's barking up the wrong tree. His plans for the future have caused widespread social alienation, and from this alienation a thousand social pathologies have sprung. I have a hard time trying to reason with people who remain calm when they see Guspaz add insult to injury. Only by striving to get the facts out in the hope that somebody will do something to solve the problem can I delegitimize him. Now take that to the next level: He just reported that the best way to serve one's country is to develop mind-control technology. Do you think that that's merely sloppy reporting on Guspaz's part? I don't. I think that it's a deliberate attempt to sully my reputation.

    We can't stop Guspaz overnight. It takes time, patience and experience to change the world for the better. While I am not attempting to argue openly in favor of any particular position, this is not the first time I've wanted to discuss the relationship between three converging and ever-growing factions -- brutish, misguided card sharks, vengeful boors, and the worst classes of malicious fogeys I've ever seen. But it is the first time I realized that if you were to try to tell his secret agents that even his least pompous apostles supplement their already-generous incomes by selling contraband on the black market, they'd close their eyes and put their hands over their ears. They are, as the psychologists say, in denial. They don't want to hear that we find among narrow and uneducated minds the belief that the best way to make a point is with foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric and letters filled primarily with exclamation points. This belief is due to a basic confusion, which can be cleared up simply by stating that I believe I have finally figured out what makes people like Guspaz institutionalize sadism through systematic violence, distorted religion, and dubious science. It appears to be a combination of an overactive mind, lack of common sense, assurance of one's own moral propriety, and a total lack of exposure to the real world.

    The truth hurts, doesn't it, Guspaz? Sadistic, crass deviants who present a false image to the world by hiding unpleasant but vitally important realities about his conclusions might not recognize the incongruities in his protests, but he is doing everything in his power to make me lose my cultural moorings and become a rootless drifter in a cosmopolitan chaos. The only reason I haven't yet is that I believe in the four P's: patience, prayer, positive thinking, and perseverance. He is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of neo-insecure speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations -- and that's just the short list! While it is reasonable to expect that Guspaz should do some research next time before printing half-truths and misinformation, it remains that Guspaz has gotten away with so much for so long that he's lost all sense of caution, all sense of limits. If you think about it, only a man without any sense of limits could desire to treat traditional values as if they were destructive crimes.

    I, hardheaded cynic that I am, am offended by the way he talks down to me. This implies that he likes thinking thoughts that aren't burdensome and that feel good. That's why one can consecrate one's life to the service of a noble idea or a glorious ideology. Guspaz, however, is more likely to waste taxpayers' money. Any rational argument must acknowledge this. His gruesome machinations, naturally, do not.

    Guspaz practically breaks his arm patting himself on the back when he says, "It takes courage to go down into the muddy trenches and give materialistic, self-pitying lunatics far more credibility than they deserve." As if that were something to be proud of. Did it ever occur to him that it is a dangerous folly to ignore the threat to democracy posed by paltry, barbaric ex-cons? I don't pretend to know the answer, but I do know that I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that dastardly paranoiacs with stronger voices than minds would revert to twisted behavior. But when he says that without his superior guidance, we will go nowhere, in his mind, that's supposed to end the argument. It's like he believes he has said something very profound. One wonders how Guspaz can complain about unreasonable turncoats, given that his own announcements also aim to deny citizens the ability to become informed about the destruction that he is capable of. If you read between the lines of his fibs, you'll truly find that he is trying to brainwash us. He wants us to believe that it's inconsiderate to shine a light on his efforts to exploit the public's short attention span in order to create an ideological climate that will enable him to resolve a moral failure with an immoral solution; that's boring; that's not cool. You know what I think of that, don't you? I think that if I want to waver between the alluring promises of a prudish "new morality" and the sound dictation of my own conscience, that should be my prerogative. I don't need Guspaz forcing me to. Guspaz has stated that all any child needs is a big dose of television every day. That's just pure teetotalism. Well, in Guspaz's case, it might be pure ignorance, seeing that Guspaz's language is turgid and incomprehensible. That's something you won't find in your local newspaper, because it's the news that just doesn't fit.

    He can go on saying that everything he says is thoroughly and entirely true, but the rest of us have serious problems to deal with that preclude our indulging in such morally repugnant dreams just now. Given Guspaz's record of shady dealings, if you look soberly and carefully at the evidence all around you, you will surely find that there is still hope for our society, real hope -- not the false sense of hope that comes from the mouths of lazy, obstreperous scum, but the hope that makes you eager to reach out for things with permanence, things beyond wealth and comfort and pleasure, things that have real meaning. Even people who consider themselves contentious recidivists generally agree that Guspaz works from the false assumption that most people actually want phlegmatic radicals to impact public policy for years to come. I've said that before and I've said it often, but perhaps I haven't been concrete enough or specific enough, so now I'll try to remedy those shortcomings. I'll try to be a lot more specific and concrete when I explain that Guspaz has been deluding people into believing that it's okay for him to indulge his every whim and lust without regard for anyone else or for society as a whole. Don't let him delude you, too. If he were as bright as he thinks he is, he'd know that you should never forget the three most important facets of his sophistries, namely their selfish origins, their internal contradictions, and their tendentious nature. Aside from the fact that we must really acknowledge that Guspaz always says the most cynical things without the slightest consideration for any screams and complaints that might arise, Guspaz's attendants favor a lifestyle that is as pugnacious as Guspaz's vituperations. Why do I tell you this? Because these days, no one else has the guts to. Since I don't know him that well, I'll have to be a bit presumptuous when I say that I am convinced that there will be a strong effort on Guspaz's part to let atrabilious authoritarians run rampant through the streets in the immediate years ahead. This effort will be disguised, of course. It will be cloaked in deceit, as such efforts always are. That's why I'm informing you that if Guspaz gets his way, I might very well suffer from stress, frustration, and defeat.

    If we don't denounce his tricks right now, then Guspaz's diatribes will soon start to metastasize until they obfuscate the issue so that one can't see what ought to be utterly obvious to all. Guspaz frequently avers his support of democracy and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what Guspaz is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims. He can blame me for the influx of snippy blowhards if it makes him feel better, but it won't help his cause any. I have now said everything there is to say. So, to summarize it all, most of us contend that Mr. Guspaz is extremely bloodthirsty.

  61. Damned with faint praise. by DivideByZero · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm being touchy, but I wonder if anybody cares about conflict of interest anymore?

    Some questions about the article:
    We compare the Tungsten to Pocket PC's here,
    The new OS allows Palms to begin catching-up with some of the things rival Pocket PCs can do

    But to the older Dragonball Palms here:

    The Tungsten T has a retail price of $499. For comparison purposes, the older m515 sells for $349. ...Obviously pointing up the disadvantages on both sides - If the argument is turned around - IE:"The new palms are capable of much more, and are priced comparitively with hardware-similar units" it's not half as damning, is it?

    But on the other hand...
    However, the T does feel a little heavy for its size. ...actually makes a comparison to neither, because it's hard to actually fault the unit by comparison to either platform. It would be valid to say 'The Tungsten is physically smaller than most of the PocketPC models, and has a similar, or lighter, weight', which, again, isen't half as damning.

    Gee, if I ask Microsoft what their opinion of the competition's newest handheld is, they say they're not impressed. What a shock.

  62. Not THAT premature by sharkey · · Score: 2

    Franklin Covey has them in their brick & mortar stores.

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    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  63. Heh heh heh by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

    "If you want wireless communication - get a cell phone. If you want a personal digital assistant - get a Palm."

    Or you could just get a Kyocera Smartphone which is both. I have one, and it works fine in both capacities. www.kyocera-wireless.com

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    Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  64. The only thing I want in my next Palm device... by Zarf · · Score: 1

    is for it to be half the weight of my palm VIIx. Same features, same resolution, same screen is fine... just make it thin and lite. Oh, and you can lose the stupid antenna... I could never get coverage anyhow.

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  65. Last Post! by alpg · · Score: 1

    In short, at least give the penguin a fair viewing. If you still don't
    like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you do.
    -- Linus "what, me arrogant?" Torvalds, on c.o.l.advocacy

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...