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Tom's Hardware Reviews Xbox Live
VividU writes "Tom's Hardware has a review of Xbox Live." Also includes a bit of a summary of the state of networked gaming on the other 2 major consoles (Coleco and Intellivision). A good read if you're looking to see what's going to keep you glued to your couch in 2003.
What's next - Magnavox Odyssey and the Atari 2600?
The article mentions nothing about pricing though. How much is this going to cost? Also it would be nice to know if they were planing any MMORPG stuff. This whole idea of paying a monthly fee to play a game is a tad on the ridiculous side but I guess they do have to support it.
I bought mine on launch day along with mechassault and unreal. I sold both on ebay. Mechassault is pretty mediocre single player and multi player is any better. You walk in a line and shoot stuff as you get to it. No strategy like outflanking your enemies.
Unreal is the same. You shoot and kill and that's it. I also bought Ghost Recon, but haven't had a chance to play it. Going to try it this week. Otherwise it's a wait for some decent games other than sports.
As far as the service itself, it's pretty good. On my sdsl connection I don't see any lag.
Since we were not asked to participate in the beta test, we can't tell you much about the beta; but things must have gone fairly smoothly, because on November 15th, Microsoft rolled out Xbox Live to the masses.
Poor testing and pervasive bugs have never stopped MS from releasing anything. Looks like wishful thinking on the reviewers part.
Arbitrary sig
haha get friends in real life you fucking nerd
sum are saying that you're .confusing robbIE, with his boss, whois lairy? at any rate (they're changing daily), to pretend that either/both are not entrenched in the corepirate cesspool they used to so gleefully mock, would be MiSleading, which is against the sacred /. charter against FUDgePacking.
so IT goes...
My buddy got his for christmas. Setup was simple, and it works great. What I like the best is being able to play games with people other than the two guys I normally beat ;-). Ok, so it's probably the other way around... In any case, it rocks.
I wish MS would allow XBox Live users to hook up to UT games being played by nin-xbox users, though. That would be money.
So it's only just out of Beta and all the decent GameTag's have gone!
So it looks like you're gonna be in a deathmatch up against the invincible Bob8347737.
You would see the XBox players getting slaughtered because they are playing the game with a gamepad while computer users are using a mouse. How can you play FPS games with a gamepad anyway?!? I tried it once and it sucks ass!
Meh.
becasue the Playstation is not going to sell a service that lets you play al your games, you have to subscribe to each individual on-line game.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
How about you?
Found out the hard way that old Xboxes don't work with Xbox Live.
We bought an Xbox last Christmas for my younger brother, when they had just came out. In the manual, one of the periferals listed is the Xbox Communicator (a.k.a. Xbox Live).
This Christmas, we got him Xbox Live. Put in the installation disk, but what's this? Needs a hardware upgrade?
Apparently, the hardware upgrade costs $100 from MS. I don't know where the cutoff point for working vs. non-working Xboxes is (as even the non-working ones were advertised as being ready for it!) - but be careful!
That depends on what you're playing. For the type of games that are easily turned into multiplayer games (FPS, mech games, etc), this is mostly true. Have you tryed playing any RPGs on a console though? Or something like Civ? I actually liked Civ 2 for the PSone better than for the computer. They had to clean up the controls and interface a little, and it made the gameply easier.
"Like everything Microsoft has done, Xbox Live is done, and done well"
Well, I can name at least one instance this isn't true. Anyone remember the unmitigated disaster that Windows 95 was? They had 5 years to work on it, and it was still extremely buggy. We were all starving for a nicer GUI back then though, so all the problems with that launch tend to be overlooked.
Personally, I prefer the way Sony is handling online play with the PS2 network adaptor. There is no centralized service for all games, and at least right now there are no subscription fees for most if not all of the current games.
What about the PS2 online set-up? I know no subscription is needed and so on, but are there any sites with detailed reviews of the thing? I've heard you can use a linksys usb ethernet adapter for it. Furthermore, I'd like to know if you can configure the Playstation 2 for your network.
I do own an X-Box... a good gaming console.
But the showstopper for me is two-fold: The lack of a dial-up option (not everyone has a cable modem accessibility yet!), and the fact that, by license, it appropriate for use with "kids under 13".
Both of those are show-stoppers for my household.
So, it looks like the Nintendo would have been a better choice for my household in the long-term: 56k dialup option, and more games for everyone (a better mix of "mature" and "everyone" titles).
Oh well, maybe MS will fix these issues before things really get rolling!
And for those who want to jump out and say "But who wants to buy an expensive PC to play games online, when it only costs $200 to buy an XBox." ..
Well, consindering you NEED broadband to play XBox Live, this basically translates that the person has some fat cash to pay a $50+ monthly fee for internet access. Do these types of people typically have really crap computers? No. MicroSoft has walked into a virtual minefield without looking at marketing demographics first. The people that will keep this afloat are people without broadband and decent computers, which are NOT the people who can actually use it.
And after your first free year, targeted monthly rate for this service will be $10-15/Month. It's not set in stone, but if it is any lower than $10, they will lose money on every single player.
You can see why Sony and Nintendo are taking their time. Leave it to Microsoft to boldly blunder into a market area it is entirely unfamiliar with and die, then work out a program that actually *works*.
SEGA has released a dev kit for all games to get online who uses its SDK which is cross platform compatable with PS2 and Gamecube.. So people who want to play Football on both systems can play each other seamless. They plan on putting up a "Blizzard" type of service where it will be free, etc etc.. Who knows if this will take off. I predict: No. At least not unless the PC dies a horrible death.
n terms of moderation, peepoles say that robbIE, being a byte player in the bIEg picksure himself, is no more a good or bad guy in this pottIE training "problem", than poor martha stewart is/was.
.asp you don't know whois watching here.
you should be careful that ip blocking robbIE.
150,000 people gave Microsoft their credit card number and agreed to be billed a to-be-decided amount indefinitely, until they figure out how to cancel it (which might not be a piece of cake, considering that MS do not seem to understand that with consoles, unlike software or one-off hardware sales, you have to keep the customer happy).
Does this worry anybody else? It worries me, because it confirms Microsoft's long held belief that the retail market is ready for software-as-a-service, and that people really are dumb enough to pay upfront for the device, and pay ongoing amounts for the functionality.
You know those friends you have who tease you because you spend $X a month on computer bits that you don't really need? Well, they're about to enter your world, only they don't even get to build a collection of little anti-static bags as a bonus.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
What an idiot.
Its not a Hardware upgrade, but it warns you that it is updating the bios and to not reboot during the process.
I have 2 xboxen. One at home and one at work. Both are launch xbox with NO problems playing live.
FUD
Cripes, that is a needlessly long rewiew... Did the man have a quota of pages to fill? Here's the summary from another person who has been with Live since Beta-
:p
If you have any sort of hardware knowledge at all (ie; are a regular reader of Slashdot), connecting Live will be cake, unless you have a real exotic network configuration, since the process is pretty well automated. A keyboard is seriously need to fill out the registration info, but doing so can still be done in under 10 minutes without one.
Live itself works well, but is still rough around the edges. The interface for some options is not the same as others from game to game. It's even non-existant in some cases. Live is in serious need of standardization in all honesty. Other than that, it's pretty smooth playing in most cases, though the occasional laggy player will dampen your gaming experience.
Live titles are kinda slim pickins right about now, the majority of them being sports related. Ghost Recon, Unreal Championship and Mech Assault are strong contenders, though each has it's own interface issue. Be that as it may, I suspect MS is working on the problem and I've heard up to 80 Live enabled games to be availible around next Christmas. Likewise, the downloadable content isn't in any sort of quantity yet, though some is there. I'd be surprised if it didn't increase as Live matures.
Verdict: If things stay the way they are now, I can't justify another year ofLive, especially after having grown up in a PC gaming environment. But I don't think they will stay the same. They've been getting plenty of feedback from the boards and it's still in it's infancy. Aside from playing select games from a limited collection, I think the biggest draw right now is reserving you Game Tag. Waiting at this point certainly won't hurt, that fact aside.
Wow... And that was less than a page too...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Anyone else that read the article think it was written by a 13 year old? Lots of little chopped up sentences, vocab of about 100 words...
they use a Linux Server Farm to allow for 24/7 uptime ?
[Slashdot Exclusive News ! : Beowulf Clusters of XbOxes with Debian are the REAL Xbox Live BackBone]
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Online console gaming is FAR from a big flop. Xbox live has JUST begun and it is selling like HOTCAKES.
I for one probably won't buy ANY games that aren't live enabled in some form or fashion.
The targeted monthly rate has NOT been decided, and even if it is 5-10.00 a month that is NOT a bad price considering that will be a single rate to play over 55+ online games. You can't do that with any other console.
Broadband is the success of Xboxlive. Microsoft can release content that no 56k modem can download, microsoft can create communities, games and environments richly detailed and only limited ot the imagination. As it stands now only roster updates for the NFL games have been out but both Unreal Championship, Mech Assault and Splinter Cell will have downloadable content, maps, addons and fixes. You won't see that on any other console.
XBox live is here to stay folks!
whereas, the "editors" write beautiful storIEs, in praise of ill eagle, Godless deceptive payper liesense stock markup FraUD FUDgePackers, & IT is responded to with many beautifully worded (no MiSpelled words) accolades, buy ?pr? shills. what a wonderful wwworld IT's become(ing)?
that's ok dough robbIE, we think you're innocent, but you should come out about it.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
I picked up a network adapter for 40 bucks, and that's all I've had to pay.
It came with a free mail-in for Twisted metal black online which is really cool.
Now if ps2 would get a nice mmorpg...
If that doesn't say something, I don't know what will. What say you? And no, it is not selling like hotcakes. 150,000 is a very very poor number. Compare that to the first two days of Zelda in Japan, the second largest console market just behind USA, which sold 450,000.. Yes, in TWO DAYS. That is "hotcakes" for Japan. For the USA, nearly double that and you might be getting somewhere.
150,000 was within the first week. Microsoft has stated they will reach 600,000 very soon. 150,000 was also US only.
Since then Xboxlive has launched in the UK and is gearing up for launches in other nations.
I could care less about Japan, i'm not going to compare my gaming habits against those countries that have no similarities to the US or US consumers.
Hotcakes is a complete sellout of every kit that was manufacturede. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. You have to realise that almost 25,000 to 50,000 people were online already through the BETA program BEFORE THE LAUNCH
"I could care less about Japan, i'm not going to compare my gaming habits against those countries that have no similarities to the US or US consumers."
:)
X-Box owner
See, almost all the good console games come from Japan. Japanese companies like to work with other japanese companies, and aren't big on working with foreign companies unless they get something good out of it. Hopefully, this means that the X-Box dies a painfull, painfull, slow death, since the cool and revolutionary and spiffy games tend to come from Japan, and whatnot.
See, almost all the good console games come from Japan
:)
Nintendo owner
So Microsoft pay $X a month to maintain a whole bunch of servers and a gaming network and YOU think they should charge consumers a once-off fee?
Guess why you're not employed by Microsoft's accounting department.
Sorry, but your "gaming habit" is being produced by the very people you think have "no similarities to the US or US consumers". Capcom, Sega, Namco, Konami, etc etc are all based out of Japan. If you want to ignore it, then so be it. But I would think that is entirely ignorant. Without Japan, there is no console industry.
Found out the hard way that old Xboxes don't work with Xbox Live.
This is simply wrong. There might be an error with your XBox or perhaps you have modded it, but XBox Live should work with all unmodded xboxen.
Please mod this parent down, as it's not true.
(which might not be a piece of cake, considering that MS do not seem to understand that with consoles, unlike software or one-off hardware sales, you have to keep the customer happy).
XBL has proved to work well. Most of the reviews on it are positive, and everyone I know who has it (personally and through forums) is loving it so far, and XBL has become a selling point when purchasing a game for most of us. I highly doubt that many folks are cancelling it already, but feel free to prove me wrong and provide a link.
that people really are dumb enough to pay upfront for the device, and pay ongoing amounts for the functionality.
Do you have a basic understanding of the XBL service? Do you understand why a subscription fee is required? Do you understand that all you have to do is pay this fee and you can play any XBL enabled game without extra cost? If not, then I suggest you RTFA. That's like complaining that you bought your cable modem, why should you have to pay ongoing fees to get online?
It should be noted that apparently the basis for this entire parent post is that you have to give a credit card to Microsoft.
"If an Xbox game (which requires T&L or shaders) is well-programmed, then it practically doesn't even need the Pentium III."
Uh?...what the hell? So, in the best case scenario, the processor of the XBox is an accessory? What an idiot the thg reviewer...
that's right, any daze now, the infamouse "stuff that matters", will be appropriately transformed into "we know what matter$"
Sony is launching an integrated service next year to compete with Xbox Live!'s approach (buggered if I can find the link, sorry). It supposedly will allow for disparate games to connect players to each other. Sony has obviously just watched Xbox Live! and are now copying them in some respects.
(Incidentally - someone tell me why the Xbox's built-in Ethernet is such a big 'advantage'. I don't get that. You have to buy the Live Kit to use it anyways, right? Why couldn't they have put the adapter with that and saved some buyers - or themselves - a few dollars?)
Anyways - I like Sony's decentralized approach better than Microsoft's Way, even putting aside the fact that it is MS for a second.
The Internet doesn't 'help me' find other players either, I can do that fine by myself, as usually the game has a browser of sorts built-in. This will become a bigger bone of contention with the likes of EA, who spend a ton of money maintaining their own server farms.
Really, there are two kinds of online game that are evolving on both the console and the computer, and I see Sony's approach as better for both:
1. Regular Multiplayer Games. Sometimes you can play multiplayer on one site/system (console), otherwise it's just the usual find-a-room-and-start-shooting exercise. These games are not developing as a monthly pay service; the multiplayer online aspect is just another feature of the game. They are sold as traditional games, one-time fee. You won't get charged for using these, much like you're not charged for Quake or Warcraft. For these games, Sony's approach is more advantageous, as it truly can remain 'free'.
2. Massively Multiplayer Games, which are a different animal altogether. Users of these games do tend to exclude other games in favour of whatever their fix is. These games will get away with monthly charging as the entirety of the game exists only in an online form (The Sims, and lets not forget Sony has bagged Everquest as well).
So Xbox Live is better for the kinds of games (#1) that people don't want to pay a monthly fee for, and yet that's what they are doing. In the case of MMORPGs, users are likely spending almost all their time with that, and don't need a lot of cross-game referencing.
Now, with Sony's Live! clone, I bet they toss in a bunch of trojan services to keep you hooked. Any bets on downloadable movies/music? The PS2 is exactly the kind of 'computer' you want for real DRM...
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
BS. Xbox live hits the UK on March the 16th, it sure as shit ain't out anywhere but the US yet.
Japan will get it next on January 16th.
--is not to be confused with user #672982 - Bame Flait
Hey -- don't laugh, I got a 2600 and 150 games for Christmas this year. Back in my day that would have cost around $5000 during my gaming age. (I.E. -- only something the rich could afford. You can have it all now for about $100.) Plus as an added bonus -- the games are actually fun to play. And I don't have to site through 5 minutes of FMV to get to the action.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Guided PPC balls, guided gauss rifle slugs, it's really pathetic. You fire an ER PPC and a gauss rifle from across the map, and your opponent can't move fast enough to dodge them. These weapons are supposed to be inanimate lumps of plasma and metal, respectively; yet they magically follow you! I mean really! what the hell were they thinking?
don't come whining to US, when there's only won channel(tm).
This article came appeared on THG's front page 3 weeks ago. The Live service has been out since November 15. Damn Slashdot, keep on top of these things. I have Live and I have been impressed with it since the first time I played. Lower lag than any other online gaming service I've used. Setup is easy. The only problem I've had with it so far is a bug with Ghost Recon. It has a difficult time finding available games. Although, Ubisoft has stated they are aware and are looking into a solution.
I'm waiting to hear, "What if I dont hook it up through a firewall.. Is Microsoft gonna make us download patches just like with our windows system.. I havent tried it yet but I am concerned.." (yea right)
Freaky Schitt always happens to me... WHY God WHY!!
they have no "product" to garner billyuns with, so why not use yOUR curious eyeballs to garner a fewww sheckles from the ill eagle kingdumb, in sum last gaspers attempt to jack up the prize of their owned phony payper?
yuk. you just can't mod this kind of stuff away.
The UK has an open beta.. anyone can join. Just as good as a luanch
http://www.xbox.com/uk/live/now.htm
now what was that you were saying??
Ok.. Its updating the dashboard, wich when your running the update it says it can screw up your xbox if you reboot during the process (similar to a bios update)
however, NO one needs freaking new xbox to get on xboxlive. that is FUD
you have to subscribe to each individual on-line game.
If you play online games in dial-up-friendly genres (i.e. anything other than Quake III clones), the PlayStation subscription scheme may actually be less expensive than Xbox Live. Here's how: Assume that the user is currently with EarthLink ($20/mo dial-up). Assume that the user is perfectly happy with the speed of web surfing and e-mail offered by v.90 dial-up Internet access. Then:
PS2 subscriptions: If each game is $5/mo, then you can subscribe to four games for $20/mo. In addition, some publishers will probably offer free online play for some of their games.
Xbox Live: The upgrade from $20/mo dial-up to $40/mo MSN Broadband is $20/mo, and Xbox Live (which sits on top of MSN Broadband or any other standard broadband connection) is currently $4/mo, for a total of $24/mo. Some publishers will charge an extra fee on top of the basic Xbox Live fee, but it appears that a larger percentage of Xbox games' online function will be included in the Live price than PS2 games' online function will be included in the retail price.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Wha? Wasn't this a review of Channel F?
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke
His comment did not say that X-Box Live was poorly tested or filled with pervasive bugs. He was merely pointing out that you can not draw the conclusion that things must have gone fairly smoothly from the premise that Microsoft is rolling out the service, and it is evel less certain given Microsoft's history of rolling out products that have been poorly tested or filled with bugs.
Basically, XBconnect is a piece of software that will run on a Windows PC on your local network. Put the Xbox on the local network, and the Xbox will see the XBconnect client as another Xbox. Thus you can use the "System Link" feature that is built into many games, used for playing multiplayer games with 2 or more Xboxen (I believe up to 16)
The great thing is that the XBconnect client interfaces through the Internet to find other players, but makes it appear to your Xbox that they are on your local network.
It is a way to play multiplayer games on the Xbox for free!
I've used it for Halo, and Unreal Championship, and had good results. The lag is usually minimal, and although sometimes not perfect, I'm sure the true Xbox Live suffers the same fate.
It's worth a look, especially if you already own a Windows PC, and a router. All you have to do is hook up your Xbox via ethernet.
Do you have the Xbox Software Development Kit CD's? It clearly states in the 1st chapter of the SDK manual (2nd paragraph actually). Here it is:
"Microsoft may periodically release IO and BIOS controller updates for the Xbox that you will need to apply to your development packages as well to obtain the latest functionality. BIOS upgrades to the Xbox are done through Dashboard updates and are quite safe compared to those done on a PC where interruption is not a tolerated fault. Only Microsoft may issue a BIOS patch for security reasons. The patch is digitally signed with 12 signatures and uses 2048-bit RC5 encryption. More details on the updates themselves and how they are secured can be found in Chapter 38 of Xhandbook #4."
The coolest voice ever.
Of course *if* more Sony titles begin requiring a subscription fee, then all of this could change, but right now that's a big IF to make a solid conlusion about the "Value added" of a product.
Microsoft plays you!
Oh, wait...
I have had enough of consoles i tell ya what...
i mean, all of these games that they give such high praises too were originally PC projects or already under PC development (cough Halo cough cough), and isnt it true that Microsoft's Xbox division is buying up all of these PC developers because quite frankly console developers couldnt pull a good game out of their ass.
Personally, i think that console online connectvity is going to crash and burn, subscribing to one MMORPG on the PC is fair enough, but with PS2 you have to subscribe with EVERY game, not to mention the servers that Sony already has to maintain with Everquest and whatnot....
This may sound like a moronic rant, but people should ditch these flashy consoles and just embrace the true light of the PC...
*head explodes*
(The devboxes also contain twice the amount of RAM, other than this, there are no differences)
it's in my head
Cuz I don't have a credit card. I guess now I have a reason to go get one. The only place that mentions the need for a credit card, is ultra fine print on the side of the box. Even in the sections such as "What you need to play Live" it mentions bb connection, the live kit, and other crap, but makes no mention of the NEEDED credit card. The only reason you need a credit card, is so they can bill you after a year. But considering that they haven't released a price for next year, this seems illegal. What is to stop them from charging 400 bux, and me getting stuck with a crazy bill, forcing a cancel?
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
Been playing PS2 SOCOM U.S. Navy Seals online for a week with no subscription required. Took just minutes to set up and join an ongoing session (and there was a long list of games in progress and locales to choose from). No problems and right into play. The game was $60.00 and included a headset. Seals is DVD/ProLogic Surround, and with the PS2 connected to a home theater, the sound and interactivy is impressive, not to mention the game play itself. Being able to talk to other players via the headset adds to the realism.
Please stop spreading misinformation/FUD. You're just repeating something you heard elsewhere.
Everyone knows MS is looking to profit from subscription based services. That doesn't mean there aren't other business models and options out there, and it doesn't mean that fee based gaming is the only way to play. There are many, many choices...not all require monthly fees, and fees never guarantee you'll be happy with the experience.
That article sounded like it came straight from the Microsoft PR department. Usually THG does alot better then that. Why is this even on slashdot ? certainly isnt 'stuff that matters'.
OK, I'm complaining but this has to be one of TH's most poorly written articles. Yes, it's true, it's a complaint, this TH article is not well written. New meaning is not added by each sentence's second rendition. Writing each sentence twice does not add meaning. A repetition is a repetition is a repetition even if you change the wording a bit. They use different words, but it's still repetitive as hell.
Imagine the Creator as a stand up commedian - and at once the world becomes explicable. -Mencken
Time for some karma burning.
Aside from the fact that I dislike Microsoft, which is apparently since I'm posting on Slashdot...
I have not been impressed with X-Box, the games, or this X-Box live thing. It seems that Microsoft is charging X-Box users an extra $10 a month so that X-Box consoles can establish a connection with one another... this is on top of the $50 fee for broadband that you have to pay. To me, this is what it all boils down to.
Top it off with the fact that I have yet to see an X-Box game that surpasses Quake 3, CounterStrike, UT2003, Wolfenstein, etc. on the PC in terms of enjoyability, controllability, etc.
Even if I put my dislike of Microsoft aside, I still don't see a reason to own an X-Box.
And the sad thing is that aside from maybe one or two games, I'm not seeing very much use out of my PS2 either, except as a DVD player.
On the other hand, I HAVE been impressed with Nintendo. Instead of trying to turn their console into a computer, they have instead focused on delivering completely awesome games. If you play Metroid Prime, you'll know what I mean. It is the most awesome console game I've played in two years by far. The most exciting thing is that the new Zelda is supposedly even BETTER than Metroid Prime. To top it off with all the other awesome games, Mario Sunshine, Animal Crossing, etc., I don't understand why people aren't flocking to the Game Cube.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
You wear a tinfoil hat around the house, don't you?
Yes, Socom doesn't require any money to actually play. My mistake, I forgot to specify. Any games that will require money (because servers and such aren't free) will each need an individual subscription, yes? Yes. My point stands. Hey, if you're happy with PS2 then great. I think if you want to get online with your console and play games though, XBox is the way to go.
There's no FUD and hype here. Simple opinions that you can feel free to disregard if you so wish. Just be careful before you start spouting conspiracy theories because folks think XBL was done well.
Otherwise you might notice that the games really do kick ass and take names.
-- Mike
(Anxiously awaiting the XBox Live Halo 2)
The live fee is to pay the bills for the datacenters they built. As far as the games I agree with you. Only one I really liked was Max Payne. Splinter Cell is so so and I'm going to give Ghost Recon a chance. I'm waiting for SW Knights of the Old Republic.
As far as the graphics, my Geforce 4 in my PC will spank the x-box any time.
No game of any sort of Xbox is selling "like hotcakes". Sell well for Xbox, yes. Perhaps that means something, but they don't have any big sellers yet.
Compare sales of SOCOM (which has no service, as you point out) to any Xbox online game.
I've been playing PS2 games online for free since before the Xbox came out. No service, no problem! With THPS3 & 4, the service is built it and free. Only games like PSO or Everquest cost money.
When it comes to unified fees, let me ask you this, if an Xbox Live style service existed for PS2, do you think Everyquest for PS2 would have no monthly fee? Think again.
Note that Sony is exploring an online service in Australia. If it succeeds there, expect it here.
Overall, I like Sony's online gaming policies better. You see, Xbox doesn't come with online gaming built in, it is a $50 add-on, and that's only for 1 year. That's kind of deceptive to me. MS forbids developers from doing their own online game systems, so no-cost systems are impossible on Xbox.
On PS2, developers can choose any system they like. Bundle the cost into the game (like THPS), monthly fee for the game (like Everquest) or startup/join an online service (like the thing coming in Australia).
I like choice. If the Live system is the best way, perhaps it will win out in the marketplace. But that's no reason to preclude other options.
The entire thing smells "ADVERTISEMENT" from one end to the other.
C'mon Taco, did you actually read it? It doesnt discuss performance, ease, game play (not the vague candy coated statements in the not-reviews at the end), interaction with others or antyhing else that would have been a review of xBoX Live. This is so unlike you to oversensationalize an advertisment as "a good read". (You all can decide for yourself whether that is sarcasm or not).
This article discusses:
Some other things to note?
Is it just me, or did the article really stink and was the /. post over sensationalized?
- Rob
WebMaster:
BinFeeds
XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but
Or PS2/Playstation owner, Dreamcast owner, Saturn owner, SuperGrafx/PC Engine owner, PC-FX owner, Playdia owner, Pippin owner, Mega Drive owner....
Even after you get rid of all the date sim games, music games (some of which would do well here, but skip them anyway), card battle/monster raising games (same thing, some would do well here), and anime tie-in games (ditto), you would find the Japanese catalog of games mind-bogglingly huge. Maybe 40% of those games make their way outside of Japan, and often the ones that are exported aren't anywhere near the best games Japan has to offer, just what American publishers think will SELL.
Now, look at the xbox line-up. Who's doing Japanese games for xbox? Sega, Capcom, Konami has afew titles, and, uhh.......XICAT? Yeah, that's some line-up. I'd rather own a SuperGrafx than an xbox at this point, since the number of good games on that platform outnumbers that of the xbox. (Anyone familiar with SuperGrafx gets the joke)
Face it, xbox is relying on American and European content, the same developers who traditionally produce PC content. That's why the xbox is selling well in those markets. That's why many games from such companies that are popular on the xbox are more or less simplified PC games, modified to take adavntage of console controls. That's why the damn xbox logo is puke green....just as tasteless as the people who are expected to find such a logo attractive.
But, I have no doubt that the xbox is and will continue to be extremely successful. There's no accounting for taste. Thank goodness for import stores.
I had a XBOX since it came out last year and bought a Gamecube this year. I don't like Metroid at all. Its a very boring game, the control is bizarre the there is no story at all.
I am in love with xbox Live though. Mechassault is pretty and mindless fun, MotoGP is incredible, and Ghost Recon's online play is really on another level over the PC game it was ported from. I picked up Ghost Recon for the XBOX back in November and its still my favorite game to play.
XBOX Live definitely needs some more games, but they got a huge roster of games coming out next year. Halo 2!
Microsoft is doing all the right stuff with XBOX Live. People complain about it requiring broadband but that was the right thing to do. The games are really lag free compared to anything you've played on the PC and the voice communicator is something else.
Yes, please show us the two connect points. I just don't believe you, and I will not believe you until you prove that you're telling the truth. I am a skeptic; I read slashdot.
Hey, if you're employed by MS, might as well show us all the source code and schematics too.
Last I checked, the flashing of a BIOS ROM chip required more than 'two' points to connect to. I have the CMOS diagram for the Xbox right in front of me: there are 2 different BIOS chips on the platform. One of them runs the core PC-base BIOS for the Windows 2000 kernel, etc. The other is a BIOS and IO controller for the video encoding subsystem.
The coolest voice ever.
1) Xbox's centralized service will mean less profits for the big fish (EA) who want to get more profits from servers they already have. Sony's decentralized plan helps EA get all the revenues from its game.
2) The PS2 doesn't require a fee for every single online game you play. Many (infact, most) are free.
3) Rumors are not overriding the set-in-stone-by-MS-themselves $10 monthly fee MS is planning on charging.
Go read a few gaming sites before speaking on things you don't know much about.
There is no broadband in my city, therefore I can not get it. WHY REFUSE TO TAKE (more of) MY MONEY JUST BECAUSE MY CITY IS TECHNOLOGICALY IMPAIRED?!?!?
If you have broadband in your house, chances are you have a router and a spair port. Here, i'll make your life a little bit easier if you're confused about what's out there.
Netgear RP614 Router (4 Ports) = $44 bucks. Dig around for the other rebate and you can even get it for $30. It beats SMS, Linksys and 3Com's $200 dollar routers into the ground with it's ease of use and superior performance.
Of course AOL users aren't really on top of the Microsoft's priority list when it comes to Live. Even my grandmother has a router in her tiny house. She's pushing 92.
As you can see, the connectivity is a non-issue.
True Fantasy Live Online
I participated in the PS2 EQ (Everquest Online Adventures it's called) beta test. Before playing that, I thought there was no way mmorpgs could be half as good on consoles...
*crickets chirping*
Where the arrow is pointing, there are 2 small squares of solder, you want to bridge the 2 squares together by dropping a small amount of solder between them.
[...]
Now do the same for the bottom of the board
[...]
That will enable write access to the tsop.
it's in my head
Ah, whattaheck. Here's a link to a turorial in this reply to:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/tsop.php
it's in my head
Oh man, I laughed so hard when I read that. Maybe it's time I dusted off my TurboGFX 16 and ported linux to it :)
Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
are you sure?
so when is someone going to make a bnetd style server for all the people that have modchips or just want to play with friends locally? Has anyone started this yet? What would be the major obsticles do you think?
The Xbox has long legs (not those kind, perverts). It will be around for at least another 2 years, most likely another 4, before a successor system is introduced. The games will come, and some will be Xbox-exclusive. Don't forget, MS has bought some kick-ass PC game studios, and don't think they won't all become Xbox-exclusive if MS needs them to be.
Also, don't forget that not everyone can afford a PC that can play games like Unreal 2k3. A homebuilt PC of the same caliber as the Xbox would cost about $350 to build if you were very knowledgeable and didn't mind spending weeks searching Fry's and ebay and the crap sites on price watch looking for the absolute lowest price of every single component. That's an Xbox with Xbox Live, the DVD kit, a second controller and a few games.
Console games are a much, much bigger market than PC games, because they are accessible to more of the general public. MS doesn't care if the initial games are "the same" as those available on PC, because they're targeting a different market (and they know the PC users will come around when they start cranking out the Xbox-exclusives from Bungie, etc.)
Oh yeah? Well of the 15 people *I* know that have Xboxes (Xboxen?), all of them love it! So there!
There is no doubt that Xbox Live is a success. The usage statistics show that.
There is no guarantee your online games will work unless they are 100% decentralized. Any sort of wordstats, etc, doesn't exist. Or if it does, it might have its plug pulled because no one is paying for it (and companies sure don't pay for things for the heck of it).
A lot of Dreamcast online games were never pay for play. Now I can't use very many of them for anything (except PSO, because PSO v2 is pay for play and floats it along with PSO Eps 1&2 for GC). Shenmue's passport disc (which had world stats) stopped working March 2002. When will your PS2 online games stop working?
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
is for online play.
There is only ONE online game on the GameCube. Phantasy Star Online Episodes 1 and 2. Tom seems to think this is two games, and he also seems to think there are other games available for the GameCube which have some sort of online support.
Not true at all. Right now the only thing you can do with the modem and BBA for the GameCube is play PSO Eps 1&2. "Very little software is available for the Nintendo 56K/Broadband adapter offering other than the Phantasy Star Online I & II, which are the premier titles [sic] " would be better worded as "Nintendo does not have an online strategy, as emphasized by the fact that the only online title is a port of the Dreamcast's MRPG PSO by Sega itself."
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
when keyboard / mouse setup becomes available (games actually supporting them) for first person shooter console games, only then will they be worth my time.
Another point I read recently is that without the broadband/56k adaptors readily available for the gamecube as yet, nobody has had the tools and such to easily incorporate online capabilities into GCN games. Apparently some company has written a netcode kit for the GCN and sold it back to Nintendo, who now release it with their developers kits. hopefully we'll see some online games soon, then.
Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
Well for one, all Xbox's work unless theres something wrong with your Xbox, About flashing the TSOP remotely, that is impossible, if it were possible you wouldn't need a modchip.
And the 50$ is for a *year* subscription, it might not actually be 10$ a month after that first year...And the service is for *fast* servers, you dont have to worry about the person hosting on a cable or dsl and after getting 4 people in game you all lag. I never once experienced lag(I played all through beta, but got banned when it went live cause of modchip, now use friends xbox)
Xbconenct is cool, but you know how hard it is to find people playing anything but Halo? Let alone with a good ping with more then 3 people.
Personally I find the 50$ for first year is fairly cheap, I've played online games(Eq, asherons call, daoc) and those all add up, and they are just a single game.
Not having a mouse was a huge problem with me at first, but after messing with settings and buying a S controller I've actually gotten really used to it. plus on like Unreal if your targets close it autoaims
The only really big problem I have with Live is the Voice masking on some games, mainly whacked, it gets really annoying...Also the fact that if you got a mod chip your xbox gets banned(not that account, you can login from a dif xbox fine) Personally they should not ban modchips personally, you can just disable them, or have them check for origonal games and/or active modchip.
Well anyway if any of you guys play unreal on xbconnect(mainly the only game I play online, it owns) my names sr_nubinz, and ingame I'm doc nas T if you wanna play;)
Enjoy the holidays.
Behind the greatest marketing force in the world, xbox is still so downright horrid. In the hands of any other company, this exact console would have gone down the gutter. If you take just the xbox gaming library alone, it would stand absolutely no chance in today's console market. Some of the top 10 hits for xbox became the bottom of the pile when they got translated to PS2. I am really tired of MS getting their hands on everything. Let nintendo and sony duke it out in the gaming market.
I've been beta testing Everquest for the PS2 and the addition of the USB keyboard is really nice. I was able to fill in my username and password and such via the keyboard rather than the joystick and chatting with players is nice via the keyboard. Granted the only online game for the PS2 I can comment on is everquest though I will get SOCOM soon.
I don't know, the XBox Live kit is available to ship from amazon within 24 hours. The linux network adapter is sold out. Have fun wasting your money paying for games that should be free.
-Chris
Ya done been troed, massa. Fanks!
"Another point I read recently is that without the broadband/56k adaptors readily available for the gamecube as yet,"
Why do people believe these myths? I work in a video game store, and I also look around at a lot of stores. PS2 network adapters (Sony official and 3rd party) arrive and sell fairly regularly, as do Nintendo ones. We don't have any shortage at all. There are plenty on shelves on stores in my city.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
How many kid-appropriate titles does xBox have? Zero.
Apart from ports of games such as Cel Damage, XBox has a few kid-friendly titles such as Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee (T-rated, but still deemed appropriate for my 6-year-old cousin by his quite protective father).
Will I retire or break 10K?
but if you've ever tried to play a reaction game (Quake3 and the like) with a 400ms ping...
As yerricde said, he plays games other than first-person shooters.
so you don't see games where 1/2 the people have 100ms pings and the rest jump and dance around the screen
That can be solved. Configure one set of servers with a maximum ping, and configure another set of servers for dial-up users.
Then why don't you hook up your computer to your widescreen TV and your surround sound?
Because the screen layouts for PC games aren't designed to look good in 480i. Try to play a PC game through your TV out card or a scan-converter, and most of the time, the text comes out so small it's unreadable. Console games since the NES use the equivalent of about 18 point text for readability on a TV; some PC games have text as small as 10 points in speech balloons, status bars, menus, etc.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Well, I took a look at some Tribes2 on PS2 screenshots... the antialiasing is nice, but it dosen't hold a candle to Halo's graphical quality. For example, I can't find any evidence of bumpmapping, and the terrain is still heightmapped so there aren't overhangs or tunnels or whatnot. The textures seem to be lower-resolution (and boring), and the models lower-poly (and ugly, but that's my own personal opinion). The weapon models are even uninspired. So how does it make Halo look like an utter "joke"?
Lots of little chopped up sentences, vocab of about 100 words...
But such a writing style does not necessarily suggest early adolescence. When people talk, they don't talk in paragraphs. Instead, they talk in short "idea packets" of about seven words each. Record yourself in conversation, on a tape or on your computer. Count how long your phrases are. Count how many sentences you complete vs. how many fragments you leave. Count how many unique words you use. You may be surprised.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Considering the anti-monopoly, anti-totalitarian bent on /., I am very surprised to see people defending the XBox Live subscription model, compared to the PS2 subscription model.
To recap, the XBox Live requires that you pay an upfront $50 fee for the first year of game play, followed by an as yet unspecified fee each year after that in order to play XBox Live games online. This is the only fee you need to pay and it is set by MS, not game developers. On the other hand, the PS2 allows game developers to charge as much or as little as they want for their individual online games. Sony itself does not decide.
Now, MS claims that their service is cheaper since there is a possibility you might have to pay for each and every PS2 game, as opposed to one flat fee.
However, this completely ignores free market economics. Of course, if there is money to be extracted from the consumer, the price of PS2 game subscriptions will rise to the level the public will pay. However, if any PS2 online game overcharges for its online component, then its sales will suffer, and it will be forced to reduce the fee due to competition within the same market. In short, Sony has created a competitive market for PS2 online game subscriptions. Game companies are NOT STUPID; they will not charge so much that you will not pay.
MS on the other hand is able to extract monopoly rents from the market for XBox Live game subscriptions. If the subscriptions are underpriced, it definitely will raise prices. However, if the subscriptions are overpriced, it is under very little pressure to reduce them since it controls the market of XBox Live game subscriptions and has no competition. While there will be some pressure from the PS2 since it is a substitute, PS2 games are only a weak substitute for XBox games since switching would require buying a new console -- a classic example of platform lock-in.
Monopoly pricing. Loss of developer control. Platform lock-in. Do these things sound familiar? Microsoft seems to only understand one strategy for success.
A single company controlling pricing will always be more expensive for consumers than when a competitive market determines prices, no matter what that company claims.
This is already happening. You pay $50 a year for XBox Live. Almost all the PS2 online games are free -- strongly indicating that under a competitive market, the equilibrium price of (non-MMORPG) online console game subscriptions should be nil. You are already paying monopoly rents to MS if you paid your XBox Live subscription.
Do not believe monopolist economics. This is no different from MS claiming the world would be more efficient if everyone would just switch to their products.
PS: I do understand that there are some complications to this Microeconomics 101 analysis. MS runs the XBox servers and certifies a certain level of service, while PS2 games use the PC gaming model for servers. The PS2 requires a hardware upgrade to play online. The PS2 and XBox have different capabilities. However, in the long run, competition always benefits the consumer. That will never change.
Top it off with the fact that I have yet to see an X-Box game that surpasses Quake 3, CounterStrike, UT2003, Wolfenstein, etc. on the PC in terms of enjoyability, controllability, etc.
Unreal Championship on XBox is quite comparable with UT2003. Check it out.
.-.--
I was looking to buy a console this Christmas, and was leaning towards the PS2. I'm not a particular fan of Microsoft, though I'll use their products if they're good (for example, Mac Office 2001). Anyhow, I haven't really kept up with the console market, and XBox Live really was the reason I changed my opinion and picked up an XBox -- my first console since an original NES. I've had a great experience with it these past 3 weeks.
After catching up with the market and playing my new toy, here's a reflection of my rationale for choosing the XBox and XBL:
- I have a cable modem, and I would refuse to use anything but a broadband solution
- I don't want to deal with annoying inconsistencies in multiplayer setup between game titles. XBL has a relatively consistent set of terminology between games.
- I really do appreciate the Microsoft "single source" approach, for now. I don't have a problem paying a nominal monthly fee for a better overall experience (which is what I feel I'm getting thus far).
- The variety of XBL games available is WONDERFUL. I picked up NHL 2K3, Unreal Championship, and MechAssault. (I also grabbed Splinter Cell, which alas is single player, but still great).
- The voice communicator is a nifty add-on, and works relatively well.
As for the quality of games:
- MechAssault is my fav, best experience since MechWarrior 2. It actually has some elements of strategy involved with assault compared to other shoot-em-up's. The single player missions are fun too. Well worth the buy for me -- but I know some friends that don't think much of it because they just don't like the shoot-em-up genre.
- Unreal Championship is tons of fun, just what I would expect if I were playing it on a PC or Mac, though the graphics aren't as good as a high end PC, and sometimes lag gets a bit much
- NHL 2K3 is very rich, graphics aren't as good as EA's but the gameplay is really great. I have a learning curve to get through, unfortuantely.. advanced modes can be tough for newbies to sports games (which I admitedly am)
- and (non-XBL) Splinter Cell is one of the best adventure games on the market right now, IMHO.
What don't I like? Well all in all, the price was rather steep after buying 2 extra controllers, an advanced AV kit, 4 games, XBL, and a console (which had 2 games bundled). That put me back around CDN$800 after taxes. Games run around CDN$70/each at Best Buy. How the hell can parents afford to give this to their kids?
XBox really seems to have been well executed. I have no troubles supporting Microsoft in this product arena, provided they continue to make a great product. It remains to be seen if the market at large will make it a profitable platform, though hopefully it will -- it will keep Sony, Nintendo, et al competitive.
-Stu
Hi Inoshiro.
:)
If you're talking about domestic U.S. Gamecube broadband adapters (not the modems), unused/unopened in retail packaging and sold at MSRP or close to it, I'd like to know if you ship to California.
Seriously. If you can reply, I'd happily place an order for one or two.
Don't forget, MS has bought some kick-ass PC game studios
I think that is exactly where MS has its strategy wrong, PC gaming philosophy is different to a consoles. PC gaming generally revolves around a mouse, console around a stick and buttons, different types of input, different types of game. Though I have to admit that Halo did work for the box.
You also need to consider the case that a MMORPG style game comes out for Xbox Live (which one almost certainly will).. There is nothing that I am aware of to stop someone producing say Star Wars Galaxies for Xbox and charging you an ADDITIONAL monthly fee on top of your live service costs to play the game.. Anything that contains more persistance than a frag count or hottest lap time is going to cost $$ to maintain it's servers and I can't see microsoft paying these companies running costs out of the live subscription bill..
In this case you'd be left footing two bills, both an xbox live subscription and a game world subscription..
This was my originally point exactly! The mouse is an extension of your hand/arm. Pressing buttons on a gamepad can never replicate the experience of physically moving your arm to aim. Why was my original post modded to -1 as redundant anyway?
Meh.
This is definately somewhat off topic but......
/. lacking some content for the site.
/. read the THG article because it sure does seem like an ad for the Xbox Live thingy.
:)
I don't know about you guys but this article and the story about the poor sap who can't seem to drag is carcass away from playing EQ really smells of
I don't think
BTW.. It doesn't play WC3, who would be interested
Yeah, okay. They are not available in Australia until March or something. At all. Where are you? you seem to be in the only place in the world that has 'em. ;)
Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
here
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
We have lots of network adators for PS2 and GameCube units. Every gaming store in town (Saskatoon) gets about 10 or 15 a week for the PS2, and a smaller number for the GameCube. Demand is exactly satisfied. It's fairly similar everywhere, since Electronics Boutique has a very good distribution network here.
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'll connect my ZX-81 which runs an Xbox emulator on LindowsOS to my T68i GSM phone and beat anyone of you on MotoGP. Yeah!
--- Surfing the web on my ZX-81.
The annual meeting of the "You Have To Listen To Experience" Club is now in
session. Our Achievement Awards this year are in the fields of publishing,
advertising and industry. For best consistent contribution in the field of
publishing our award goes to editor, R.L.K., [...] for his unrivalled alle-
giance without variation to the statement: "Personally I'd love to do it,
we'd ALL love to do it. But we're not going to do it. It's not the kind of
book our house knows how to handle." Our superior performance award in the
field of advertising goes to media executive, E.L.M., [...] for the continu-
ally creative use of the old favorite: "I think what you've got here could be
very exciting. Why not give it one more try based on the approach I've out-
lined and see if you can come up with something fresh." Our final award for
courageous holding action in the field of industry goes to supervisor, R.S.,
[...] for her unyielding grip on "I don't care if they fire me, I've been
arguing for a new approach for YEARS but are we SURE that this is the right
time--" I would like to conclude this meeting with a verse written specially
for our prospectus by our founding president fifty years ago -- and now, as
then, fully expressive of the emotion most close to all our hearts --
Treat freshness as a youthful quirk,
And dare not stray to ideas new,
For if t'were tried they might e'en work
And for a living what woulds't we do?
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...