Chemistry Sets for Adults?

An Anonymous Coward asks "I've been pursuing a few different lines of study, to refresh myself in basic sciences before I return to school. Right now I am reading up on Chemistry, and thought it would be fun to acquire a chemistry set just to play around with and maybe learn a few things from. Do any science geeks here have any suggestions?" My childhood garage probably still has purple and black stains all over it (lucky I was wearing glasses). 300 in one electronics kits, anyone?

Comments

Why?

[Gortbusters.org]

Why do you need a chemistry set to go back to school? If you want to prep for school just get a nice book so you don't have a tough time grunting the equations (and then you'll be able to adequately enjoy the labs).

Re:Why?

[identd]

What fun would that be, I mean we all know bleach and amnonoia and bleach is the best chemistry set.
Just Joking...

Re:Why?

[kingkade]

Well a book and hands-on experimentation don't have to be exclusive of each other. Actually performing and validating guided experiments or coming up with your own to answer problems posed or your curiosity can be fulfilling.

Re:Why?

[Simon Field]

I agree. Building your own chemistry set would be more fun, and you would learn more.

The best way to learn is to teach. Collecting a bunch of good chemistry experiments, and the sources for the materials, would make a great project.

And you aren't the only one who benefits...

Some places to start:
Delights of Chemistry
Demonstration Lab
Lecture Demonstrations
Chemistry Resources

Some Sources of chemicals:
CHEM Scientific
Fisher
Sagent Welch
Carolina

I am certain you will get lots more from other Slashdaughters...

Re:Why?

[Jucius Maximus]

"Why do you need a chemistry set to go back to school? If you want to prep for school just get a nice book so you don't have a tough time grunting the equations (and then you'll be able to adequately enjoy the labs)."

Doing actual experiments is important for chemistry in particular because otherwise learning the nomenclature is next to impossible. This is not the case as much for intro physics.

When I was learning all that stuff, we had all these tables with the IUPAC naming conventions and such, and none of it really connected togething into something coherent. But once you actually get working with a dozen chemicals at once, you have to catalogue your results some how and then the real relationships between anions, cations, acids, bases, etc are made clear to you. It's even better if you to chemistry experiments with a friend helping. (Joke not intended ;-) You have to coordinate your plans and communicate results to each other.

I know from experience that it is at least 10X easier to learn chemistry in terms of the nomenclature, methods, and overall properties of different structures by lab work than by reading.

And it works. It's been two years since I've had to take a chemistry course and I still know all my common anions (formula, charge, name) including the names for versions with up to one extra or two less oxygens off my heart.

Re:Why?

[Gorobei]

Exactly - that was the experience I had with my old 300-in-1 chemistry set about 27 years ago.

I did 30 pages of book/guided stuff. E.g. filtering a sand and salt solution, then spending 2 hours getting the salt out of the solution... at the end, guess what? I had salt again!!! Gee, that was fun.

I switched to my own guided experiments soon after that: KnO3 is cool, magnesium burns pretty well, sulfur smells bad, but hydrogen sulphide is even better! My father (a chemist) banished my experiments to the garage.

Next month, I told my parents I needed a pound of sodium chlorate as a desiccant. My father managed to keep a straight face, but bought it for me anyway.

Many more self-directed experiments were performed, and I found myself learning in leaps and bounds: I learned about the surface area of reactants when I thoughtlessly substituted powdered charcoal for granulated sugar in a simple propulsion experiment. Haha, skin and hair grow back.

Chemistry is cool, but make sure your set has fun compounds... I mean, what the hell fun is copper sulphate, etc?

Also, keep a lab book: it makes for pretty fun reading later in life ("4oz nitrocellulose," what was I thinking?) and is helpful if you screw up and the doctor/bomb-disposal unit needs to figure out what was going on.

Re:Why?

[neverkevin]

The best way to learn is to teach

I guess you never went to public school :)

Re:Why?

[rve]

I agree. With a chemistry set you can do 19th century chemistry. It will be of no use whatsoever to prepare for a return to school.

A much better preparation for a chemistry course would be brushing up your statistical mathematics and linear algebra, mixing chemicals is engineering, not chemistry nowadays.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The best way to learn is to teach.

I strongly disagree, and not only because I'm a former teacher.

The best way to learn is to do, and especially when it refuses to work at first - the process of finding out why it doesn't work leads to a lot more insight in the basics and underlying principles than you can learn in any training or school.

This applies to all fields: technical stuff like writing software as well as writing a novel ("doesn't work" in the last regard meaning "publishers send your manuscripts back with the recommendation to find a job in construction or become a cab driver").

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It doesn't work" applied to chemistry may have some less desirable side effects.

Re:Why?

[CrazyDuke]

"I mean, what the hell fun is copper sulphate, etc?"

If I remember correctly, feeding a hydrated crystal of that stuff to another person is pretty fun after a few minutes.

Hint: "OH, SHIT!"

Re:Why?

[Renshi's Girl]

Also, check out the following:

Sigma Aldrich specializes in high purity chemicals

VWR Scientific is one of Fisher Scientific's main competitors

Spectrum Chemical is known for having good sales on their chemicals.

And, last but certainly not least Lab Safety and Supply can take care of all of your safety needs!
As a chemist who has had the misfortune of experiencing chemical burns due to my boss' stupidity, I can't stress the importance of protecting yourself enough! There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to safety!!!!

Also, be aware that I have only ordered from the afformentioned companies through my job...I have no idea what kind of information they will require before they sell to you...I do however know that ordering certain combinations of chemicals together or within a short time frame will get your activities/purchases reported to the authorities.

It may also be worth noting that there is no such thing as anonimity in the chemical industry...AFAIK, chemical companies are required to put "taggants" in to some, if not all, of the chemicals that they sell..."taggants" are inert compounds that do not affect the properties or behaviors of the chemicals into which they are place that will allow authorities to trace the manufacturer of the chemicals if they are used in an illicit manner...

Re:Why?

[Conspir8or]

>If I remember correctly, feeding a hydrated crystal of that stuff to another person is pretty fun after a few minutes.

Someone in my middle school earned notoriety for tricking a fellow student into eating "the blue rock candy." A hospital visit ensued.

Note: I was on neither side of the above equation. Though I did keep then an eye out for any stray CuSO4 and credulous underclassmen ....

Re:Why?

[roseblood]

I think you fail to understand the poster and his goals. He wants a meth/x-tacy lab in a box. That's the only ADULT reason to want to get into chem. :P

Re:Why?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

As a chemist who has had the misfortune of experiencing chemical burns due to my boss' stupidity, I can't stress the importance of protecting yourself enough!

As I've stated before, I used to work in a secondary lead refinery. There were massive air filtration units to remove part of the lead dust from the air - we still had to wear respirators - and collect it in large canvas bags that were repeatedly shaken by the collection equipment to get the dust to fall to the bottom of the bags.

The dust collected in these bags was very fine (large lead particles don't traditionally remain airborne for very long at 1G). Fine metallic dusts are highly flammable when mixed with an oxidant.

One of the methods we used for determining various elemental levels was to combine a fixed amount of a sample with an equal amount of Sodium Peroxide (which is a highly reactive oxidizer), heat the sample mixture until it became molten and then drop the crucible full of molten reactive material into a beaker containing a fixed amount of de-ionized water. After the rapid reaction of the very hot oxidizer coming into contact with the water, we would fish out the crucible and run the water through an atomic adsorption spectrophotometer which would tell us how much of which element were present. In addition to being a very cool reaction to watch, it would take almost any material and convert it into a water soluble salt so it could be read on the spec.

Because of the reactivity of Sodium Peroxide (which all by itself will burst into flames when mixed with water) we would only use this method on material that was traditionally non-flammable such as the slag from the various furnaces.

The person who was promoted to lab manager when the original manager left was not a chemist, and had never taken a chemistry class in his life and didn't understand the basic rules of chemistry (i.e., hot glassware looks exactly the same as cold glassware) and was often times caught doing something stupid.

One day when the floor supervisor brought in a sample of lead dust from the shaker bags to be tested, Tom (the new manager) got a hold of the sample and volunteered to do the analysis. I watched him weigh out equal amounts of dust and Sodium Peroxide, but before he could combine them in the zirconium crucible I pointed out to him that you really shouldn't mix highly flammable materials with a highly reactive oxidizer.

He politely told me to mind my own business and that he was the lab manager and he knew what he was doing. I then proceeded to move quickly away from him and watched carefully from across the lab as he not only proceeded to mix the two materials together (luckily without incident) but then proceeded to pick up a pestle and try to grind the two materials together in the crucible.

For those who have never worked with potentially explosive materials, they can be set off by a variety of sources including, but not limited to, heat, pressure and shock. When you combine two reactive materials in a metal crucible and then proceed to grind them together with a heavy porcelain pestle, you introduce heat, pressure and shock. Needless to say within about two seconds the materials combined together in a very impressively large flash, severely burning the hand holding the pestle and burning off just the upper part of his eyebrows that extended beyond the top of his safety glasses.

I have never had to bite my tongue so hard before or since in my life to keep from laughing directly in his face.

This was almost as funny as the time when he got red phosphorous on his asbestos gloves which were already contaminated with sulfur and potassium nitrate and then proceeded to try and dust off his gloves by rubbing them on the front of his (luckily) flame-retardent shirt. He apparently didn't know that sulfur, phosphorous and potassium nitrate is the basic recipe for strike-anywhere matches...

Re:Why?

[Max Threshold]

I agree. Building your own chemistry set would be more fun, and you would learn more.

And you might even get to go on a field trip to the Office of Homeland Security!

Re:first post

[Anonymous Coward]

because noone was posting here, noone has a clue.

For adults?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear those rolling methamphetamine labs are getting pretty popular.

Re:For adults?

[Master Bait]

That dude shouldn't get just any chemistry set. He should ignore inorganic chemistry and go for the gold (organic chemistry). He needs to read Phikal first. Then he needs to check out Rhodium and The Vaults of Erowid and a gander at The Lycaeum

Re:For adults?

[Anonymous Hack]

Too true, and this is precisely the problem. Too many chemicals out there can be used to make drugs and bombs, and that makes the government Very Unhappy.

I loved chemistry in high school and regret i never followed it up. Actually the real life of a chemical engineer is probably equally boring as that of a computer programmer, but hey i can fantasize. Can't you just see the dinner party conversation? "Crank... um um um um yeah crank yeah crank don't got nothin on my hydropsychotic pseudomethephedrineactose-sulfate-2,4,5... that's like like 245 bpm heart rate and and and "

Re:For adults?

[morie]

Whatever you would classify "Gold" (Au) under, it most certainly should not be Organic Chemistry

:-)

Re:For adults?

[Anonymous Coward]

i cannot believe this got a +5, informativ. seriously...+5,funny would be MUCH MUCH more appropriate!

Re:For adults?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always wondered about that-- thought that "Aluminum Chemistry" was a misnomer when everyone was trying to create Au. AlChemistry?

Re:For adults?

[thmclean]

Now this is funny... Under the PIHKAL link above: "Customers who *wear* clothes also shop for:" That's funny in itself, but the first item on the list is "Clean Underwear" Hilarious recommendation given that lots of people have soiled themselves using some of the chemicals mentioned in the book. :)

Re:For adults?

[CyberGarp]

I remember in middle school digging around in a library till I found a cookbook for making crystals. My favorite was the piezoelectric crystal. I decided to make one. I got a chemical supply catalog, wrote up my list and sent off the order. A few days later my dad was surprised by the DEA knocking on the door (these days I understand you're lucky if they knock). Oh those were the days.

Re:For adults?

[EvilBudMan]

Phikal? Organic Chemistry? A lot of danger for the inexperienced. Hmm.... Maybe someone should mod you back down.

Re:For adults?

[liquidice5]

I know what you mean, the other day, after the Stealth Force Beta article,
I was looking at books about college and college pranks on Amazon,
which is when I first saw the first item under the "Customers who wear clothes" section
was clean underwear. Yes, the above situation is humorous,
but I thought that the association of college and needing clean underwear was/is funny/funnier


Recently, the New Amazon Patents on Content Personalization article talked about how Amazon is patenting? its ability to combine items that is has no idea about, maybe with psychic powers?

Why do we need these?

[packeteer]

So called "childrens" chemistry and electronics sets are perfectly good for adult too.

Re:Why do we need these?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought chemistry changed as you got older?

Re:Why do we need these?

[DuckDuckBOOM!]

So called "childrens" chemistry and electronics sets are perfectly good for adult too.

I have to wonder whether they're even good for children.

Not long ago, I was inspired to romp thru the Edmund Scientifics catalog for the first time in [grfmbl] years. It was sad. The legal profession has clearly held more than a couple gang-bangs with ES as guest of honor. Chemistry sets without so much as an alcohol burner!? Chemicals (apparently) diluted to near-homeopathic levels!? My kiddie chem set (ca. 1966) included a vial of sodium cyanide - stick THAT in your pipe and...well, maybe that's a bad idea. And that's my point. Elementary chemistry is as much about laboratory safety as anything else, and how can you learn that with equipment & procedures that are about as hazardous as Play-Doh?

I'm with the earlier poster - build up your own lab (Daigger is a decent source of equipment & basic chemicals) and find a couple of good demonstration experiment texts that'll provide entertainment while you learn.

DDB (who may still have that old Heathkit catalog offering a build-it-yourself particle accelerator. *sigh*.)

Essential oil extraction

[MrLint]

When i was in Orgo chem the *best* and coolest thing we did was extract limoene (orange oil). But you need reflux glassware for it.. but i'll tell ya the stuff smells great. and the practical upshot is that you can use it and other essental oils as food flavorings

Re:Essential oil extraction

[aardvarkjoe]

Lucky. They always told us that we weren't supposed to lick the spoon.

Re:Essential oil extraction

[MegaHamsterX]

OR.....you could sell it on tv and be the next Billy Mays(sp)

Re:Essential oil extraction

[rworne]

The notable exception. Just abou anything else you make in organic chem stinks to high heaven.

People used to know when chem classes were in session just by the smell the lab experients leave on your hair and clothes.

Re:Essential oil extraction

[jayed_99]

*snickers* (Sorry, I was thinking of a time when I saw an idiot put a drop of pure pepeprmint oil on his tongue).

I wouldn't advocate using most essential oils in food. You could use them in absolutely microscopic amounts -- but most kitchens/chefs don't have the tools, time or inclination to measure out correct amounts of essential oils. And leaving out the "potentially physically unsafe" part of it, essential oils are so strong in flavor and scent that they will easily overwhelm the other flavors in a dish.

That's why most commonly used "food safe" extracts have an ingredient list that goes something like "distilled water, alcohol, whatever oil". The water provides a buffer.

Re:Essential oil extraction

[jcsehak]

Some time ago, my roommate bought a couple small bottles of this oil, thinking it was the kind you dip bread in. I didn't see why it wouldn't be; it sure smelled good.

Yuck.

Re:Essential oil extraction

[riedquat]

I did that for a demonstration once - I only realised afterwards that what I'd been asking people to sniff was mostly benzene...

CBS

[radiashun]

Carolina Biological Supply has a bunch of learning kits, books, and software that would probably help you out. We get most of our lab supplies through them.

do you really want to do titrations?

[black_widow]

Personally, I never learned any practical info in chemistry labs... Come to think of it, high school chemistry is all you're ever going to need unless you're going to be a chem engineer.

Re:do you really want to do titrations?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, chemical *engineers* don't do so much in chemistry labs. You're thinking of chemistry majors. ChE students have more general engineering courses, I guess. At least that's what my wife (3.91 GPA in Chem Eng) told me.

Re:do you really want to do titrations?

[dwillen]

I didn't learn too much in the required labs, but spending a semester or a summer in a lab doing research you will learn more than any number of classes or books you read.

Re:do you really want to do titrations?

[ScubaS]

Some people just can't relate. Watch as that stupid chemistry formula gives you the key to learning the entire class's personalities in one shot.

Re:do you really want to do titrations?

[jayed_99]

Well, at the rarefied heights of "chef" and "pastry chef" there is generally a pretty good working knowledge of a limited subset of organic chemistry as it relates to food and taste. And sometimes a pretty impressive set of knowledge -- find a good pastry chef and ask them about the chemical interactions involved in a loaf of bread...and be ready for a 2 hour long lecture.

A guy I worked with once told me "if you're cutting up a steak for people to sample, don't cut it into little cubes...cut it into long, thin strips...it tastes better because it provides a greater surface area for {big long enzyme in the saliva} to work with". (He then told me, "I learned that in the Organic-Chemistry-for-Chefs Class that I took last year". (And, yes, he really used the phrase "organic chemistry".)). Of course, I immediately put this to a field test with about 5 people (including myself) as test subjects. Sure enough, he was correct...the same steak -- when cut into long thin strips -- tastes better than the when it's cut into an volumetrically equivalent cube.

flamebait, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

if you say so...

Re:flamebait, eh?

[CableModemSniper]

No really. Sodium is flamebait! Get it? hahaha. Ok, I'm sorry, I'll stop now.

Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[Quaoar]

I think it's about time we added a "hydroponics" category. Honestly, most nerds will probably applaud it.

Re:Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[CableModemSniper]

~. anyone? http://smokedot.org/

Re:Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[emkman]

hah i wish i had mod points ... anyway there are lots of good sites out there already, no need for /.
check Overgrow for all your hydro,organic,chem, etc needs :)

Re:Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[ScubaS]

real geeks know that intelligence doesn't require any foreign "subtances" to get high.

"damn! i wish i remember that ::::subcontious thoughts block out stupid idea and blame weed::: awesome idea i had last night!"

Re:Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[Anonymous Coward]

How can intelligence get find itself high? A person with high intelligence can certainly appreciate chemically altered states, especially hallucinogenic ones, more so than your average simpleton. Nootropics will even increase the cognition of an already intelligent individual.

Smart people use sensible amounts of chemicals to enhance their lives. Idiots use drugs, but without direction or purpose. Luddites and moralists refrain from drug use. Luddites and moralists should be curbstomped. The future doesn't need them.

We are all made of chemicals. Some of us are just sharp enough to realize that we can take advantage of that fact by introducing the right chemicals into our systems to produce any given state desired.

Remember this. No amount of intelligence, will, or prayer will let us live forever. Chemicals are the gateway, intelligence is only the key to forging them into nanites.

Re:Slashdot: News for Dealers...

[zora]

Nah... Not for a minute!!!!

I think that it was Alexander Shulgin that said something like:

They were gonna burn galileo because he thought that you could understand the nature of God with his looking glass. Nowdays nothing much has changed, The Man will still send you to prison for a good long time because you claim to understand the nature of God with some substances

I probably butchered what he actually said but I am pretty sure that it is in TiHKAL (an outstanding read even if you are not a chemist)

sig

[Anonymous Coward]

unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;unmou nt;sleep

is the space in "unmou nt" [sic] intentional sabotage?

Re:sig

[EvanED]

It's /.'s anti-horizontal scrolling thing...

Re:sig

[Anonymous Coward]

no, it's slashdot's page-widening-prevention code.

otherwise, if i typed_a_really_long_sentence_like_this_it_would_ha ve_the_possiblity_of_screwing_up_all_table_cells_u nderneath_it_making_users_scroll_horizontally_to_r ead_the_comments_underneath_which_is_quite_a_cleve r_hack_but_it_was_merely_the_next_stage_in_the_esc alating_troll_vs_editor_wars.

obviously, the page-widening was an undesirable effect, so the Slash code was modified to insert spaces into long character strings so that they would word wrap - effectively averting that problem.

however, it has the unfortunate side effect of destroying text URLs (though HTML links are left alone) and the instance that you observed.
the price of legibility elsewhere, i suppose.

Re:sig

[packeteer]

EvanED is correct. The space is there so that "page-widening-trolls" cant mess up some browsers width setting. Browsers such as IE will make it very hard to read slashdot if its too wide.

Re:sig

[packeteer]

For a while text url's were immune to the widening code. Trolls then went out and would put things like:

http://www.asdasd.com/asd/asd/asdsd/gfdf/ger/gdc v/ b/hg/ytrhytruj/gfhjn/ghjytjhg/nbv/jytr/jgfhnbv/wef rqw/rqegfdscbv/xcbtru/yghjhgnmbv/njht/edr/gxc/v/we rtg/dgfhcvb/nygf/uj/ytj/nb/cvb/gser/twer/g/xcf/bvr d/yh/fg/n/cbv/sdf/we/tyf/gj

in their post... now those are broken up too

Re:sig

[EvanED]

I've seen that question asked a hundred bajillion times, so I thought I'd step in...

Re:sig

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

obviously, the page-widening was an undesirable effect, so the Slash code was modified to insert spaces into long character strings so that they would word wrap - effectively averting that problem.

Couldn't the original .sig holder work around this by simply inserting a space after one of the semi-colons? What's wrong with

unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep

Re:sig

[Anonymous Hack]

Not geeky enough.

main(){printf("REALGeeksDon'tNeedUnnecessaryFiel dS eperators\n");}

Re:sig

[packeteer]

I see nothing wrong with doing what you say other than the fact if i was going to fix my sig there would be much more to do. There are more erros in my sig than many people notice and i think its funny when i get flamed for it. People think they are smart by pointnig things out when they are proving that they actually know less than me.

Re:sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooooohh...you can see that people prove they know less than you ! You must be a real god with a huge dick..either that or an immature schoolkid who's posting from the lab computer cos mom took his off him for jerking off to porn.

Re:sig

[Jace of Fuse!]

Inyouraboveexampleuppercaselettersbecomeunnecessar yfieldseperators.

Re:sig

[jesus_of_the_trailer]

True, it is hard to strip if you fail the unzip ;) you should use && oh, and you need some more options to most of all them thar commands there son.

Re:sig

[jesus_of_the_trailer]

Beh, forgot to mention that it's umount, not unmount ;)

Re:sig

[TheMidget]

If you want to post really long URL's take a look a http://shorl.com. This is a site that provides shorter alias to URL's that you supply. The alias can then be posted to newsgroups, slashdot, etc, without fear of being broken up. There is also http://tinyurl.com, which does the same thing.

Of course, as moderation of this post shows, both of them are unfortunately also rather useful for trolling, so I'm not sure how long you'll be able to use these.

Re:sig

[packeteer]

http://nscp.upenn.edu/aix4.3html/cmds/aixcmds5/umo unt.htm works fine for me

My wife got me one :)

[Cybersonic]

She saw me reading the Radio Shack 'Getting Started In Electronic's book over and over again and (in between studies for various certifications) and decided to get me a kit.

She gave me bookmarks after chrismas... :)

Good list of kits: http://www.hobbytron.net/electronickits.html

I have the 300-on-1 which is $70 and is solderless.

Also check out http://www.kitguy.com/ - seems to be a definitive resource...

Re:My wife got me one :)

[EvanED]

I have a 130-in-one; I think I blew a transister and one of the ICs.

Re:My wife got me one :)

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think I blew a transister and one of the ICs."

Did you wake up with Germanium on your lips?

Re:My wife got me one :)

[EvanED]

No, but if I remember correctly (it's been a while since I played around with it), I wasn't able to get any circuit that used either the Quad-NAND IC or the top transister to work.

i was gonna mod this up

[waspleg]

but then i got high err heh

If you realy wan't to....

[oliverthered]

Well, if you wan't to have lots of fun, well kinda, try making some of the chemicals you self or using household goods.

Amonia isn't that hard to make,
Ethanol's quite easy too (just don't get caught!)
Acids are a bit trickier.... but not that hard.

It'll give you lots of practice nad help if WW3 breaks out(or if you need any 'added-extras' for a night out).

Things like the anarchists cook book should help point you in the right direction.

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[driftingwalrus]

ACK!!! Great stars! Are you *MAD*?! NEVER take anything from the Anarchist's Cookbook. Might as well drink a jug of chlorine, it'll do the exact same thing and save you a lot of time.

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Cruciform]

He's right, some of the recipes in the Anarchist's Cookbook have been doctored so as to cause the "chemist" injury.
There are more reputable texts out there to learn from.

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Anonymous Coward]

jug of chlorine.... ...Tap water

Everyone know's that?

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Thatmushroom]

To clarify, there are multiple versions of the Anarchist Cookbook, and if that's a copy of the original, just strap some TNT to yourself and light it, it really will save you time in the long run. The original is replete with errors, many chemical, that could cause lots of damage.

However, I doubt that's the original, since the original is extremely rare (if you don't see something about the bridges in NYC, you're not looking at the original). Still, it's not a wise move to perform chemical experiments using instructions from a book that's designed to cause destruction, chaos, and anarchy.

If you're really just looking to win a Darwin award, however...

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[panurge]

"Ammonia isn't that hard to make"

If you are so good with high pressure process plant, building catalyst beds, pumping hot nitrogen and so forth, that ammonia isn't hard to make, you hardly need a Chemistry 101 kit.

Of course, if you just mean "extract from something that already contains it", that's a piece of cat's piss. Literally.

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Splab]

Is it the one about causing mayhaym in a McD?

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Anonymous Coward]

The original is replete with errors, many chemical, that could cause lots of damage.

Causing damage, isn't that exactly what the book is about in the first place?

Re:If you realy wan't to....

[Muad'Dave]

...practice nad help...

What is "practice nad help"? Is that like test Viagra or something?

on soviet webnet

[Anonymous Coward]

chemisty kits play with you.

p.s. irc.webchat.org
#spiderslair
gay community leaders.

Re:on soviet webnet

[Anonymous Coward]

if i didnt have my hands in my pants
i would have typed, chemistry instead of chemisty.

irc r00lz.

Re:on soviet webnet

[pummer]

if you weren't a moron, maybe you'd STOP posting the obligatory cliche and MAYBE actually REGISTER for slashdot

/rant

Re:on soviet webnet

[Anonymous Coward]

if you were not a moron and reply to my post, maybe you wouldn't look so stupid.

sugestion

[larry bagina]

ask your local meth lab if you can do some intern work.

Re:sugestion

[InfiniteWisdom]

ask your local meth lab if you can do some intern work.
<p>
I hear Bill Clinton went down there and asked if he could do some interns.

My All-time favorite

[Superfreaker]

Edmund Scientific
http://www.scientificsonline.com

My dad used to take me there when I was a kid, a very trippy place. It got me through all of my science classes with pre-made projects.

Re:My All-time favorite

[jayed_99]

Some of my favorite childhood memories are negotiating with my father about what I could select as a Christmas/birthday gift from the Edmund's catalog.

Me: "I want one of those ruby-laser kits."
Him: "No. What about a prism?"
Me: "I want one of those sets that has all the chemicals."
Him: "No. What about a prism?"
Me: "I want one of those magnets that can lift a small car."
Him: "No. What about a prism?"

I got a *lot* of prisms. By the time I was eight, I had about a dozen of varied shapes and sizes.

Re:My All-time favorite

[srhuston]

Yes, and have you been by there lately? I live somewhat near Barrington NJ, and thought I'd entertain my wife and show her one of the neat places of my childhood. She's a Girl Scouts leader and a teacher, and thought she might find some interesting ideas or kits for making up projects.

The store is gone.

In its place is now "Anchor Optics" or something like that; basically the shop and outlet for any of their scratch-and-dent optical supplies that can't then be sold through Edmund Industrial Optics division. No more rows of science kits, wall of microscopes and lasers and optical toys, *no more surplus room*.

*sigh* I shed a tear on the way home. That place was the best.

Re:My All-time favorite

[Superfreaker]

OMG, the store is gone!
Sooo sad.

I can remember even further back they had an exhibit hall with all kinds of light experiements that were insane in this huge black room.

When they took that away, i was sad. Then the periscope stopped working, etc, not its gone!

Wahhh!

Re:My All-time favorite

[macfixer]

I liked those self-flipping quarters. Thermodynamics were never so cool ;)

K

It's not easy to find a good chemistry set

[DarklordSatin]

If all you want is to be able to mix two liquids and get a precipitate, which is the extent of most chemistry sets that I've seen, then I wouldn't bother getting a chemistry set because you can do that with household chemicals. If you want to do something more interesting, you'll need to get the chemicals on your own as all the interesting stuff is too dangerous or too expensive to put in a kit.

alright

[pummer]

first, you buy a textbook, like the one you had in 11th grade. Then, you place it under your pillow and learn by osmosis.

or

you take a big ol' jar of gasoline, add styrofoam until you get a play-doh like mixture. what you have is napa----------

oops, you were asking for suggestions. I thought you wanted to know what I did.

Re:alright

[Jacer]

it isn't *really* napalm, it's just a very-very fun, flamable paste

Re:alright

[Darmox]

quote from my old house:
"Why do you have napalm on your driveway!?!?"

me: "Well, we weren't gonna keep it in the house!"

Re:alright

[hackstraw]

Yeah, it is fun, especially when it "drips" fire :)

Anyway, back to the notion of "learning by osmosis", where the hell did this come from? Osmosis is the transfer of _water_ through a semi-permiable membrane. So "learning by osmosis" is as silly as learning by drinking water, because I guess the water between you and the book is going to make you smart right? Would "learning by diffusion" make a better joke, or does osmosis sound like a smarter word?

Re:alright

[Jacer]

well, i'll explain that quickly, the term comes from a grossley inaccurate garfield poster where garfield (the cat mind you) ties many, many books to himself and proclimates he's learning by osmosis

Something fishy

[dascount]

Hmmm,
Chemistry Set request...
From an Anonymous Coward
Smell of camel dung in the air...
*has to be Bin Laden*
---
Sure, just call up the Air Force, they'll even provide chemistry demonstrations at your location for you...
(Alternately, just go to Bagdad, a demonstration will arrive shortly)

Re:Something fishy

[pummer]

for some reason, this post made me think of this powerpoint. It's pretty funny, memo to Osama from the Boeing chairman. Off-topic, I know, but funny nonetheless.

Re:Something fishy

[Anonymous Coward]

Are all scientists in your country (USA) now suspected of being terrorrists?

Re:Something fishy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, along with schoolteachers, nurses, waiters, bus drivers, and retail cashiers. I don't know about you guys, but I sure feel a lot safer.

I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[pi_rules]

It's actually a little bit of biology mixed in with a bit of chemistry; but it's really fun to play with.

It's a home-brew kit for making my own beer :) I could entertain myself for hours with this thing.

Re:I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[Osty]

If by "kit" you mean those "Mr. Brew" things you can find in most stores, don't bother -- that beer is terrible. Instead, find your local brewery supply store and get the proper items. If, on the other hand, you mean a "kit" from your local brewery supplier that includes the necessary items you need for brewing, then great. My roommate made a batch of homebrew earlier in December, turned out really good.

If you're into it, Alton Brown had a Good Eats episode dedicated to brewing beer. Try to find that one for a lot of good ideas.

Re:I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[schnits0r]

I tried some chemistry and biology...damn near had a kid when the condom broke.

Re:I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[pi_rules]

If by "kit" you mean those "Mr. Brew" things you can find in most stores, don't bother -- that beer is terrible. Instead, find your local brewery supply store and get the proper items. If, on the other hand, you mean a "kit" from your local brewery supplier that includes the necessary items you need for brewing, then great. My roommate made a batch of homebrew earlier in December, turned out really good.

Nah.. I got the real deal. I helped a buddy do a Mr. Brew thing because he's not too quick on the uptake with reading directions and sterilization, but I went out and got the real deal. Four gallon pot for boiling wort, 2 6.5 gallon buckets, one for fermentation and one for bottling, bottle capper, hydrometer, proper thermometer, siphon tubing, etc.

It'll be a week and a half before the first batch is done, but damn do I have fun watching the little CO2 bubbles coming out of the airlock :)

Re:I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[Osty]

I hear that a glass bottle works better (flavor-wise) for fermentation than the plastic buckets. May just be hear-say, though. Anyway, that's pretty much what my roommate has going -- pot for boiling wort (4gal is probably overkill, since you don't need the full amount of water while you're boiling your wort), 5gal glass bottle for fermentation, 5gal bucket for bottling, all the trappings for sterilization, bottling, etc. Makes a good brew. I'm slowly working my way through this first batch while he's out of town on vacation. Mmm ... beer for me.

For me, it's too much work, but he's into it. Sounds like after the next batch of pre-packaged wort, he's going to try his hand at doing everything from scratch. Fine by me, since even a bad homebrew is better than a Bud.

Re:I just got my own adult chemistry kit.

[Anonymous Coward]

My father has made plenty of homebrew from similar tools. He's got both the plastic bucket, and the glass bottle. I haven't noticed too much difference, flavor wise, between them. Both kick @$$.

limonene

[SweetAndSourJesus]

Uh, limonene isn't a good thing to be eating.

It smells fantastic, but it's a pretty potent solvent and can irritate the hell out of your digestive tract.

Re:limonene

[MrLint]

Right from that page : Limonene is also used as a flavour and fragrance additive in food, household cleaning products, and perfumes. Im not advocating shugging this stuff straight. Butl ike with any extration of essential oil be it spearmint, peppermint, orange oil, of capsicum the idea it to not over use it.

Re:limonene

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA. The one *you* posted as a link. Last sentance of the second paragraph.

..."Limonene is also used as a flavour and fragrance additive in food, household cleaning products, and perfumes."

Dipshit.

Re:limonene

[zora]

It just reminded me that stuff like pledge and dishwashing soap use natural lemon whereas lemon diet coke is artifically flavored (and it tastes like pledge)

go figure....

Re:limonene

[Muad'Dave]

That's funny - my Make Your Own Bubblegum Kit (Which is a chemistry set all its own) says that bubble gum manufacturers use limonene and rubber for the bubblegum base.

Re:limonene

[Anonymous Coward]

And how do you know what "Pledge" tastes like? If you're going to be eating synthetic wax, you may as well be sniffing glue too.

How 'bout the ol' vinegar and baking soda expmt?

[FearUncertaintyDoubt]

I never get tired of that one...

Modern chem sets useless

[Walt Dismal]

Modern chemistry sets are crap; they have been gutted because of fear of lawsuits. So the materials and the experiments are bland and useless unless you're 8 years old.

Blow Stuff Up!

[thenovacrisis]

It's obvious why this guy wants a chemistry set... The same reason we all wanted one:

To blow things up.

There is a solution, though.

A hand full of sodium + a large lake = very nice explosions.

You can learn the importance of keeping alkaline metals away from water, the amount of energy created with the mixing of H2Oand sodium, and why you should never stick sodium in someone's bathing suit.

Can you say, "Win Win."

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious why this guy wants a chemistry set... The same reason we all wanted one:

To blow things up.

Not necesarily. I killed a keyboard with some other sorts of recreational chemistry.

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[EvanTaylor]

I do hope your kidding about the "hand full" of sodium...

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Binestar]

I do hope your kidding about the "hand full" of sodium...

Yeah, it should be "handful" of LITHIUM...

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[messiertom]

BTW, raw sodium is pretty dangerous to handle. The same properties of sodium that cause great loads of fun with lakes can cause some not-so-fun effects with the moisture on your skin (or in the air).

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Nogami_Saeko]

Exactly ;P

I was toying with the old "blowing stuff up" bit when I was in highschool. Decided to whip up a batch of ammonium nitrogen triiodide in the basement.

I managed to procure some pure iodine crystals from a drugstore (I still don't know why (a) they had them, or (b) why they sold them to me).

Unfortunately my ammonia wasn't strong enough to react particularly well, but it was good enough that I got the reaction going a bit - I left it in the sink tub and went off to watch TV for a bit - while I was gone, everything dried out...

When I was going back into the room, I flipped the lights on and heard something between a pop and a bang. It's amazing how unstable that stuff is - certainly not good to play around with...

Turns out that if I had borrowed some ammonia from my friend's blueprinting machine, I probably would've got a much better reaction (it was enough to knock him out cold when he decided to smell the ammonia).

To add to the problems, the iodine crystals slowly sublimed over a few weeks while in the container on my shelf, turning the container a nasty red/purple color, and probably didn't do me much good as I inhaled the stuff...

N.

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... I'm fairly sure you were thinking of potasium. Lithium, if I recall, is the weakest in the family. It just spurts around with a bit of flames shooting out... Not nearly as fun.

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Kj0n]

There has been an earlier article on /. about a guy who did that: look here.

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Potassium, get some Cesium for some real fun.

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Erhm, just remember that a *hand* full of sodium won't be attached to your arm for very long. You sweat, so your hand is moist, so *boom* you're a one armed person (assuming you live)

Re:Blow Stuff Up!

[DancingSword]

True, but Lithium Carbonate is used to treat manic-depression, and if someone's really into using explosives etc. as a means of modifying their mood...

Also, I don't recall any flames from lithium+water, it just sort of fizzled on the water while turning into some strange whitish salt...

WTF?! Not the Anarchist's Cookbook!

[Anonymous Coward]

That thing is full of crap. Don't touch it.

Re:WTF?! Not the Anarchist's Cookbook!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that full of crap, just quite full.

The chemical lists seem correct

This is more-or-less the same as my enclopedia says...

Nitroglycerin Recipe by the Jolly Roger
Like all chemists I must advise you all to take the greatest care and caution when you are doing this. Even if you have made this stuff before.
This first article will give you information on making nitroglyerin, the basic ingredient in a lot of explosives such as straight dynamites, and geletin dynamites.

Making nitroglycerin

1. Fill a 75-milliliter beaker to the 13 ml. Level with fuming red nitric acid, of 98% pure concentration.
2. Place the beaker in an ice bath and allow to cool below room temp.
3. After it has cooled, add to it three times the amount of fuming sulferic acid (99% h2so4). In other words, add to the now-cool fuming nitric acid 39 ml. Of fuming sulferic acid. When mixing any acids, always do it slowly and carefully to avoid splattering.
4. When the two are mixed, lower thier temp. By adding more ice to the bath, about 10-15 degrees centigrade. (Use a mercury-operated thermometer)
5. When the acid solution has cooled to the desired temperature, it is ready for the glycerin. The glycerin must be added in small amounts using a medicine dropper. (Read this step about 10 times!) Glycerin is added slowly and carefully (i mean careful!) Until the entire surface of the acid it covered with it.
6. This is a dangerous point since the nitration will take place as soon as the glycerin is added. The nitration will produce heat, so the solution must be kept below 30 degrees centigrade! If the solution should go above 30 degrees, immediately dump the solution into the ice bath! This will insure that it does not go off in your face!
7. For the first ten minutes of nitration, the mixture should be gently stirred. In a normal reaction the nitroglycerin will form as a layer on top of the acid solution, while the sulferic acid will absorb the excess water.
8. After the nitration has taken place, and the nitroglycerin has formed on the top of the solution, the entire beaker should be transferred slowly and carefully to another beaker of water. When this is done the nitroglycerin will settle at the bottem so the other acids can be drained away.
9. After removing as much acid as posible without disturbing the nitroglycerin, remove the nitroglycerin with an eyedropper and place it in a bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate in case you didn't know) solution. The sodium is an alkalai and will nuetralize much of the acid remaining. This process should be repeated as much as necesarry using blue litmus paper to check for the presence of acid. The remaining acid only makes the nitroglycerin more unstable than it already is.
10. Finally! The final step is to remove the nitroglycerin from the bicarbonate. His is done with and eye- dropper, slowly and carefully. The usual test to see if nitration has been successful is to place one drop of the nitroglycerin on metal and ignite it. If it is true nitroglycerin it will burn with a clear blue flame.

Re:WTF?! Not the Anarchist's Cookbook!

[grondu]

fuming red nitric acid, of 98% pure concentration...fuming sulferic [sic] acid

I hope you have a hood to do this in. Fuming acids and lungs do not go well together.

a mercury-operated thermometer

Mercury-operated thermometer? Does this mean that the guy with wings on his hat and shoes operates the thermometer?

The sodium is an alkalai and will nuetralize [sic] much of the acid remaining.

It's the bicarbonate that neutralizes the acid, not the sodium.

Whoever wrote the original shouldn't be trusted to make ice water.

Instead of trying this, just put a big "I'm a dumbass" sign around your neck.

Learn to home brew�

[(H)elix1]

I'd be real careful about buying 'chemistry' kits these days. If the war on drugs does not send the suits to your door, I'm sure the war on terror will.

Brewing - wine and beer are a good start. A fair amount of chemistry (and biology) involved when you think about it. Taking the alcohol content above 15% or so lets you play with even more toys.

Best college experience was making moonshine from captain crunch in the dorms. A bit of enzymes to convert the starch to sugar, let bubble, then we pulled out the still. Nothing like a mass spectrometer to assure you don't go blind....

Re:Learn to home brew�

[Raiford]

You will have a difficult time buying reagent chemicals too ! Most supply houses will not sell to private individuals.

Re:Learn to home brew�

[Innominate Recreant]

Brewing - wine and beer are a good start. A fair amount of chemistry (and biology) involved when you think about it. Taking the alcohol content above 15% or so lets you play with even more toys. Not to nitpick, but brewing is zymmurgy, not chemistry or biology.

Re:Learn to home brew�

[Chewie]

You're right. Zymurgy is not chemistry or biology. Instead, as the parent to your comment said, it's chemistry and biology, applied towards the end result of brewing beer that's given the term "zymurgy". Saying that zymurgy has nothing to do with bio and chem is like saying that biology has nothing to do with chemistry, and that chem has nothing to do with physics. To believe it stands on its own implies ignorance (note I said implies, not shows).

Re:Learn to home brew�

[redactor]

Hell yeah! I just started home brew before Thanksgiving, and I LOVE it. Brewed a dry stout first. I've got an IPA in the primary right now, just bubbling away that I pitched the yeast on at exactly 00:00 on 2003-01-01. Not intentionally of course, but it just worked out that way...

Also, buy yourself a copy of Brew Chem 101. Fortunately, home brew books seem to be a lot cheaper than computer books.

300 in One Electronics Kits

[oldzoot]

The experimenters labs are good for starting out - having a structured set of experiments to build, and yes, you can even go beyond those simple experiments and build simple experiments which are not in the book. For the most fun, however, I like the prototype breadboards. One of those with appropriate power supplies and other test equipment is good for analog, digital or combination circuitry. Add a few experimenters parts kits from Jameco and you are in business.

As for Chemistry kits, I think just buying the labware you need and the various chemicals etc. is a better way to go than a pre-fabricated kit.

The real interesting stuff however would be a molecular biology lab. Slice and splice DNA and build your very own new and interesting critter! Yes, you too can build your own miltary grade anthrax, plague or even smallpox. Add the THC gene to corn! Create that perfect paisley rose! Be the envy of everyone on your block! hmmmm I better quit now. Seriously, it is probably not all that hard to build a DNA synthesizer. Why not convert an ink-jet printer ? DNA = 4 molecules, many printers have 4 ink tanks. How tiny of a drop can you print???

Z

As a Chemist....

[BadlandZ]

You asked for recommendations, so here's mine. As a chemist, I recommend not getting one at all. There is nothing that fun in a chemistry set anymore (for legal reasons, almost everything fun is dangerous, so not in any set). You'll probably find more stuff in your own kitchen cabinet now days anyway if you know what your looking for.

I would recommend a molecular model kit though if you really want something to play with, or if you want to be more geeky, you can get some molecular modeling software.

Re:As a Chemist....

[Anonymous Coward]

You can still get good chemistry sets in Mexico. Sanborn's, a well-know Mexican chain, has some cool ones.

Re:As a Chemist....

[iggymanz]

Working with *real* reagents one can learn that in the real world reactions don't have 100% yield, real reagents have impurities, improper techniques can lead to erroneous results......I think that playing with sticks & balls or modelling electron clouds on a PC is fine, but it's only one very tiny part of chemistry.

Take the first quarter or semester of general chemistry at a local two year community college...if you like it, then finish the general coursework, then figure out if you next want to take physical, organic, inorganic......

Do it piecemeal

[elnerdoricardo]

Here's an idea.... Here in Toronto we have a great store downtown called Active Surplus. You can buy just about anything there. They have a pretty good glassware section where you can get most of the things you need... stopcocks (*snicker), flasks, beakers, pipettes, etc. I would think that most major metro areas have a similar store. Great place to get all the glassware you'd need. I would think another great source of info and leads would be the local highschool. Go in some day and have a chat with the Chem Teacher. I would think they'd have catalogues and suggestions for what you should have to get started!

Re:Do it piecemeal

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone explain the whole "IN SOVIET RUSSIA" joke to me? I've been away for a while.

It's a cliche joke of comedian Yakov Smirnoff.

Re:Do it piecemeal

[elnerdoricardo]

now i gotta change my sig!
thanks!

Re:Do it piecemeal

[xilmaril]

regarding the 'in soviet russia' joke

a couple weeks (days?) ago, a story was posted about dimitri skylarov. I imagine you've heard of it. anyhoo, someone made a comment along the line of "In Soviet Russia, the Law violates you... oh, wait". this being in relation to the US violation of Russian laws to capture dimitri for DMCA violations. from there, some idiot decided to post it without the '... oh wait', and it snowballed.

Re:Do it piecemeal

[Anonymous Coward]

>now i gotta change my sig!

In SOVIET RUSSIA, sig changes you!

Well, it had to be said by someone, might as well be me.

Re:Do it piecemeal

[elnerdoricardo]

I actually laughed out loud. Thanks.

Re:Do it piecemeal

[elnerdoricardo]

Ah, like most slashdotters, I've followed that case closely.
Guess I wasn't paying attention that day!
Ah, to go back to the goatse and all your base days...
But thanks for the info!

Forget the chem set

[grub]

and thought it would be fun to acquire a chemistry set just to play around with and maybe learn a few things from

If you want an adult-style chemistry set, try one of those home beer brew kits or a home winemaking kit. You get to monkey around with various ingredients and after its all done you reap the rewards. err.. "Reap Responsibly"..

One Word

[serutan]

SODIUM !

Re:One Word

[Anonymous Coward]

n,n' carbonyldiimidazole!

Do they even still sell chemistry sets?

[Cyno01]

I havn't seen serious chemistry sets in years, i figured they stopped making them cuzza people like me, same with real lawn darts.

THERMITE

[Unregistered]

and those thingies you throw that pop are good chem projects, imo.

300 in 1 Kits

[Nicholas_D]

Man those were great. I remember when I was 10 or 11 I got one for X-Mas and I got the other ones. which pretty much led to my Ham License - n1ckd (like my name Nick D vanity license :-) thank god for my dad and showing me the Amiga, now I run linux and am a CS student.. all of this from TANDY! Nick D

Re:300 in 1 Kits

[colenski]

i bought mine last year, it's in stasis in the basement waiting for my son to turn 12...i can hardly wait!

Carolina Supply for Lab and Bio related

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.carolina.com/
Caroline Bio Supply... I used to get alot of my lab materials through them. A tad light on chemicals. Online ordering as well.

My former School science supply company up near boston seems to have closed, or else I would provide some better links.

Basic kits can be found here: http://www.universeofscience.com/ and here: http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=2&c ategory=21

How to Ask Slashdot a Question?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I'm an anonymous coward too. How do I ask Slashdot a question?

Question (related to Slashdot memory post): In the theaters, how many of you remember seeing "To Be Continued" at the end of Back to the Future?

I (and many of my friends and family) remember seeing it because I remember being excited about the sequel while walking out of the theaters. It was in the laserdisc and VHS. But, they took it out in the dvd. Their excuse was, it was never in the theaters which I believe is a lie.

Re:How to Ask Slashdot a Question?

[pummer]

YES!! I remember this from theaters, and it is deifinitely on the vid.

/offtopic

Re:How to Ask Slashdot a Question?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest taking this to www.dvdtalk.com, because, among other reasons, they will give you an answer.

Re:How to Ask Slashdot a Question?

[nightherper]

Boy that was 1985 wasn't it? I remember seeing it on a friend's birthday for his party and I do remember there being a "The End?" at the end of the movie. Or it may have been to be continued.... I hated waiting 5 years for the damn sequel though. Is the dvd set any good? Couldn't splurge on it when it came out thanks to Xmas tapping the wallet a little dry.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[Anonymous Coward]

chemistry reads up on YOU!

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, could we stop this? Can't the site be fixed to reject all submissions with the expression "in soviet Russia"? Why?

No such place. Hasn't been for a long time
And when it was, it was the Soviet Union and included a lot more than Russia.

Let's send soviet Russia to the same hell reserved for the apostrophe abusers.

Russian saying: There is no news in the truth(Pravda) and no truth in the news(Izvestiya)

Heathkit lego-kits

[C R Johnson]

I had a heathkit experiment kit in which the components were contained in cheesy lego-like bricks with the schematic symbols on top, and which used little spring loaded thingies that you used t connect the circuts.

You simply laid out the schematic for the amplifier or whatever, hooked it up, and you were off.

This was 7th grade, which would make it 1973.

CRJ

Titration

[Nerviswreck]

A good burette isn't cheap...

At first I thought this had to do with sex...

[Anonymous Coward]

man, was I wrong... hitting back button now :-)

Jackboots and Uzis?

[Stillman]

I'd be real careful about buying 'chemistry' kits these days. If the war on drugs does not send the suits to your door, I'm sure the war on terror will.

I'm not trying to troll, or seem naive here, but is paranoia in the US seriously that high?

Do you honestly think "suits" would turn up at someone's door over such a thing? And if they did, would it be a problem if you had nothing to hide? Could you get compensation for invasion of privacy and/or intimidation?

I'd be interested to hear anecdotal or documented evidence of this happening.

Things here in New Zealand tend to follow the US sooner or later and I'd like to be prepared for this sort of crap if/when they do. :-/

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[kenthorvath]

Paranoia is what prompts many laws to be passed that should never have even been contrived. That, and an overwhelming desire for power. It's not so much a matter or paranoia as a genuine mistrust for federal law enforcement. There are countless examples of abuses and after hearing enough of them, it becomes deafening.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Monkelectric]

I'm not trying to troll, or seem naive here, but is paranoia in the US seriously that high?

YES! My uncle had a friend buy what he called a "nautical generator" for his boat on ebay (he's not very computer inclined). And a few months later the FBI came to the guys house and they wanted to know what he wanted it for and where it was etc ... Kind of weird because its difficult to think of any nefarious uses for a generator.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[limekiller4]

Stillman writes:
"Do you honestly think "suits" would turn up at someone's door over such a thing?"

Buying hummus and charcoal can get the suits at your door, man, much less a chemistry set.

Besides, do you realize that 7,600 people died last year from non-steroidal painkillers (eg, asprin)? Do you realize that between deaths resulting from cirrhosis of the liver and drunk driving fatalities there are about 48,000 deaths a year in the U.S.? Have you seen the hysteria over ecstacy?

Yes, ordering things from chemistry supply companies can get a suit at your door.

And if they did, would it be a problem if you had nothing to hide?

If we have to resort to this logic we're already screwed ...we do, and we are.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

they do not need such annoying things like evidence or trials to put you away for the rest of your life.

Veterans against the Bush Junta.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Stillman]

Sure. I've never been a fan of that argument. However, what I meant was if they turned up at your door, and you said 'Yeah, I bought a chemistry set, it's over there by the textbook on "teach yourself chemistry"' - ie, were completely open about it, would they still drag you off for a beating and an interrogation?

I really hate the stuff I see on the news every night - I feel like finding "Dubbya" and beating him to death with recordings of his own moronic utterances. For better or for worse, the US is the most powerful nation on earth politically, and its policies/actions do have a major effect on the rest of us. And who is running the show? The stupidest man alive, that's who.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm scared here.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[AlphaHelix]

Dude, you're a crack monkey. The article you referenced didn't offer evidence that anybody was targeted by the Feds for buying "charcoal and hummus." It didn't even say there existed a person who bought "charcoal and hummus." "Charcoal and hummus" are used as examples of grocery items that might have been on the list of frequent-shopper records that got turned over to the Feds by an overzealous marketroid. The article doesn't cite a single instance of anybody being visited by the Feds as a result of their shopping habits. I'm as anti-frequent-shopping cards as the next Slashdot nerd, but, seriously, get your panties unbunched and try to use some of those reading comprehension skills that you had to demonstrate on the SATs (not to mention some good old-fashioned common sense) next time you start to make wild-eyed conspiracy-theory-esque leaps of logic.

Aside from that, whether or not buying chemicals will get the Feds at your door depends strongly on what you buy. If you buy potassium chloride, probably not. If you buy sulfuric and picric acid, you should probably expect to be hearing the pitter pat of little feet on your doorstep.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably thought he was doing some indoor growin of the wacky tobaccy. Generators have become popular due to the high cost of electricity and the probibilty of getting royally screwed by stealing it [electricity].

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

you should be scared, you just threatened our president.. now you dont have to wait for NZ law to copy US, the US feds are gonna be at your door in NZ any second.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[deranged unix nut]

I'm not trying to troll, or seem naive here, but is paranoia in the US seriously that high?

Do you honestly think "suits" would turn up at someone's door over such a thing? And if they did, would it be a problem if you had nothing to hide? Could you get compensation for invasion of privacy and/or intimidation.

Well, let's see, with talk of mining commercial data sources for anything "out of the ordinary", yes. I would be surprised if I am not already flagged in some government computer for searching the web to learn more about gas turbine engines and "fuel air explosions" so I can know enough to design a small gas turbine engine. I think I'll go in person to a book store and buy reference books with cash.

I don't expect that "suits" would come to the door, but having a record in their computer isn't a comforting thought.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Stillman]

Heh - bring it! At least for now, I can DO that as our laws protect me. It's the future I'm worried about.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Joe Tie.]

However, what I meant was if they turned up at your door, and you said 'Yeah, I bought a chemistry set, it's over there by the textbook on "teach yourself chemistry"' - ie, were completely open about it, would they still drag you off for a beating and an interrogation?

Where you lived, the nature of the judge, and the mood of the people sent to investigate would have a lot to do with the answer. But the short, from what I've heard of people busted, you could not only get dragged off but thrown in jail for most of your adult life. In a worst case scenario they don't even need to find drugs to lock you up. If there's even suspicion you could be manufacturing it's sometimes enough to get you thrown in jail. There's a guy on trial right now for having two small sets of plant material that when combined are psychoactive. Not even cocaine style psychoactive, just midrange lsd style psychoactive. Note that neither of the two plants are even illegal in the US. If convicted he'll get twenty years. If I recall correctly that's five years more than the minimum for murder. Is it likley he intended to use it for the entheogenic effect, yes. Is it still severly messed up that you can get thrown in a pit for possession of small amounts of legal plants, heck yes!

Years ago I used to take ephedrine both to keep myself active during winter colds and to help keep down the symptoms a bit. I got the idea a few weeks back that I might buy some in case this winter gave me some of that, but the DEA horror stories I heard when checking google for prices made me decide against it. When it comes to current drug laws, often it seems you're guilty untill proven innocent. In this climate I wouldn't do anything that could be used against me. Heck, I'm not doing anything illegal and I'm a tad nervous even speaking out so strongly here. Given that the DEA runs businesses selling chemistry supplies such as glassware, and then runs down the list paying visits to everyone they sold to, I wouldn't take the chance on buying anything chemistry related. When it comes to are various internal "war on" crusades, even SOVIET RUSSIA dosn't have much on us.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never underestimate just how crazy anything involving the "war on drugs" in the US can get. It's a modern day witch hunt, in almost every respect you can think of. There was an interesting this american life aired a couple years back that touched the subject a little. Of particular note is the family ripped apart when the mother was sentenced to prison even though she didn't even have any drugs, and the congressman talking about how they really didn't understand a lot of the antidrug laws when they were being drafted.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[TheMidget]

Note that neither of the two plants are even illegal in the US. If convicted he'll get twenty years. If I recall correctly that's five years more than the minimum for murder.

So, it's in his best interest to kill the whitnesses who saw that he had the plants. That'll save him five years. And if more people did this, two beneficial things might happen:

• less snitching
• maybe they'll fix the amount of punishments to keep a sense of proportion

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[limekiller4]

AlphaHelix writes:
Dude, you're a crack monkey. The article you referenced didn't offer evidence that anybody was targeted by the Feds for buying "charcoal and hummus." It didn't even say there existed a person who bought "charcoal and hummus." "Charcoal and hummus" are used as examples of grocery items that might have been on the list of frequent-shopper records that got turned over to the Feds by an overzealous marketroid.

Incorrect. The article does not say, as you state, that hummus and charcoal are merely things that may have been on the list that was turned over, it says that the purchasing habits of customers -- tied to real names and real people, which is none of the government's business -- were turned over. Viz:

The final destination of all that data scares Ponemon and other civil libertarians, defenders of the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable search and seizure. Ponemon, for one, suggests federal authorities are plugging the information into algorithms, using the complex formulas to create a picture of general-population trends that can be contrasted with the lifestyles of known terrorists. If your habits match, expect further scrutiny at the least.

Unless you are taking the position that the government sought the data and then precisely nothing with it, then the next thing you must ask yourself is, "what did they do with it?" Ponemon seems to feel, not irrationally, that this is being used in a sort of "grocery profiling," which isn't but a quarter-degree removed from racial profiling, since different ethnic groups tend to eat different things. Therefore my original statement:

Buying hummus and charcoal can get the suits at your door...

...is entirely correct. If the government has a laundry list of "marker items" that can be tabulated for a profile match, it stands to reason that if you match the profile, you'll receive attention. It doesn't make sense to twist my argument to shoot it down.

And stop calling people "dude," it makes you look cheap. =)

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[MickLinux]

I'm not currently in America -- but yeah, paranoia is getting bad there... or .. I dunno. Some of it's paranoia, and some of it's justified.

For example, evidence does show that Vicki Weaver was targeted (read crosshairs, murder) because she was the outspoken racist in the Ruby Ridge incident.

Donald P. Scott (LA Times, 1991/2) really was murdered for his land.

A guy named Lamplugh really did have ATF agents burst in in jackboots, crush his kitten to death to make a point, terrorize his family, and he was innocent of anything, just a gun dealer who wouldn't help them set up someone else on false charges, yada yada yada. The list goes on.

That was *before* Bush. Now, they really are hauling people away to Cuba, in the dead of night, and torturing them there, just like the Argentinan "disappearance squads". How many it is, the government refuses to say. But it *is* happening.

Is it paranoia? It's hard to tell.

Considering the flap about the child-abuse cases in the Catholic Church in Boston, I have to wonder how far down the line we Catholics are. I'm not too sure. But when you get to a police state, it does tend to extend its grip.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[sjames]

I'm not trying to troll, or seem naive here, but is paranoia in the US seriously that high?

Yes, and then some. Even before 9/11 it was getting silly. After the bomb went off at the Olympics in Atlanta, the FBI indicated that we should be suspicious of anyone who had any sort of black powder, pipes, alarm clocks, and/or wire in their basement. IMPORTANT NOTE: Here in the southeast, it is fairly common to load one's own shotgun shells and other ammo, or at least it was until it became too much of a pain to keep the powder around. Of course, pipe, wire, and an old alarm clock is not that unlikely in a basement/junk room either.

It is now necessary to get a low explosives permit in order to purchace model rocket engines larger than F.

Most chemicals that could be used for drugs are either 'denatured' (that is poisoned, apparently it's better that you die rather than get high) or no longer available. You can (and will) be investigated if you buy large amounts of fertilizer.

The really annoying part about all of the above is that they make perfectly legal activities impossible or at least a pain in the ass, but do little to prevent the crimes (or 'crimes' in the case of drugs).

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

That was *before* Bush. Now, they really are hauling people away to Cuba, in the dead of night, and torturing them there, just like the Argentinan "disappearance squads". How many it is, the government refuses to say. But it *is* happening.

I guarded the Taliban for six months in Gauntanamo Bay, Cuba and they are NOT mistreated. They live in better conditions than the people guarding them now! I helped build the camp, I think I know what I'm talking about. Your sources are not even close to correct.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[MickLinux]

Sorry. I get my information off the Drudge Report. He in turn took his information from more standard sources like CNN -- but that doesn't mean that they were correct.

I remember reading about such things as keeping the inmates standing for long periods, sleep deprivation torture, recently. At the time of capture, there was stuff about hauling them in unventilated tractor trailers and leaving them to roast (that from www.rawa.org). To be honest, I have not been there in either location, and do not know for sure whether this is true.

However, I also read about Jose Padilla -- and I have no reason to believe that is false, either.

In the end, I go back to my first paragraph: Yeah, there is paranoia. Some of it may be justified; I'm not sure which is and which isn't.

Re:Jackboots and Uzis?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they turned up at your door, and you said 'Yeah, I bought a chemistry set, it's over there by the textbook on "teach yourself chemistry"' - ie, were completely open about it, would they still drag you off for a beating and an interrogation?

Probably not a beating, just a federal indictment based on your foolish statements. By threatening the President and signing your name you have probably already bought yourself a world of shit.

Sir, with all respect, I have no statement. I have nothing to say to you. Sir, I don't want to go with you to the police station. Sir, I'd prefer that you didn't come in the house. I'd be happy to meet with you in the presence of my attorney, please give me your card and I'll have him contact you to arrange a convenient time for a meeting. IAAL.

Oh... my...

[Lethyos]

My childhood garage probably still has purple and black stains all over it

Usually those stains are kind of yellowish. What the hell are you?

If you want good chemistry experiments,

[joelt49]

I would definitely recommend the Anarchist's Cookbook. Full of fun stuff, ie thermite and other stuff I can't remember. Just don't get caught with it, though. If you do, I never posted this (uh, well, you know what I mean :)

Re:If you want good chemistry experiments,

[benson hedges]

ask any chemist you know about the anarchist's cookbook, or show them if they don't know it - 40% of the stuff in it doesn't work, 40% will blow up yourself, 15% are urban legends, and the rest may work if you do it right.. if you are interested, get some real books, like "Explosives" by Rudolf Meyer...

be warned however, creating explosives, or drugs for that matter, is nothing a chemistry kit could archieve most of the time.. the only synthetic drug I am aware of that could be made this way would be GHB, which can be easily produced by mixing two chemicals, then heating them carefully. As for explosives.. creating things that go boom without the exact knowledge of what you do often result in the quick and impressive end of the creator's life. :)

Re:If you want good chemistry experiments,

[Idarubicin]

There are various versions of the Cookbook circulating in print and on the web; some contain gross inaccuracies, some have been corrected--partially. Consult a chemist, or a real textbook, before you try anything.

Well equipped university libraries should have books on the chemistry of fireworks--they're not a bad source of ideas. Information on explosives can be found at schools with good chem. eng. or mining programs.

Be very careful with organic synthesis of any kind, in any quantity. Plan ahead--have a fire extinguisher on hand, and work where there is good ventilation. Don't work where nobody will hear you scream. A litre of solvent triggered with a blasting cap will throw shards of glass a couple hundred feet, except for the bits that are slowed down by your body. Less spectacular errors can be just as fatal. Consider yourself warned.

Re:If you want good chemistry experiments,

[josh crawley]

If you wanna believe in that, then teach yourself while you blow shit up (like yourself). Go through all the steps of what happens and try to recreate all the reactions, heat transfers, and other problematic things. Essentially, try to create a Lab experiment before you "do it". If there are any errors, you will catch them. This also trains you for more reactions for the more complicated stuff.

What I'm saying is, if you cant figure what's happening, dont do it.

More Info on Anarchy

[Anonymous Coward]

For more info on what Anarchy and Anarchism really are, visit Infoshop.

300-in-one, I mean 299-in-one, I mean 298...

[diamond0]

Those 300-in-one sets frequently encouraged you to experiment by modifying the circuits...let me tell you, replacing the components when they burned up wasn't exactly the most fun thing to do, particularly when you couldn't readily determine which ones aren't working the way they're supposed to. I suppose an experienced engineer could readily do that, but a 12 year old kid trying to learn?

Sure was fun to have my own 10mw-ish AM station, though.

Frankly if I were to do it all over again I'd just go buy a bunch of components, a soldering iron and a few prototyping boards. They still make those prototyping boards, don't they?

Re:300-in-one, I mean 299-in-one, I mean 298...

[bigberk]

Frankly if I were to do it all over again I'd just go buy a bunch of components, a soldering iron and a few prototyping boards. They still make those prototyping boards, don't they?

I'm sitting right beside a 300 in 1 kit (or, from where I'm looking at it, "300 in 1 elektronische projektdoos"). Prototyping boards are great, definitely more flexible. They have spring-loaded ones with horizontal and vertical tracks so you just "plug in" your components. No soldering needed. I've been using these a lot!

I had a flashback to my first crystal set radio. I ran a big wire (antenna) to a tree to pick up strong signals. Then the radio works without any battery. How can anyone say that's not neat!

If you have some time to kill, go build one!

Re:Chemistry Set

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are serious about doing synthetic work, I
would see about taking several lab courses at a
local college. They are already set up with
sources for the reagents, safty equipment (ie,
hoods, glove boxes, safe storage for the reagents,
safe disposal of the reagents, plus more
analytical instrumentation so that you will be
able to confirm that what you made is what you
intended to make.

If you really insist on seting up a lab at home,
make sure that you set up a safe lab. Please do
the following:

1) Ensure that you can safely store, handle and dispose of any reagents.
2)Be sure to join an amateur scientist oganization, and find some help, if only to double check that you are doing #1 correctly.
3) consider the legal difficulties
-in the state of texas it is a felony to own
certain common glassware without a permit.

Just to be safe, check your local laws along
with the fire codes.

4) If you can legally own glassware, consider
buying the microscale equipment. It should
be the same price or less for it, however
you'll use smaller volumn of reagent.

environment, geology

[g4dget]

Measuring and monitoring the presence and amounts of chemicals in the environment and in food might be a good area to get involved in. You can get by with limited resources, the experiments tend not to be dangerous, it teaches excellent laboratory technique, and you can accomplish something useful. You could pick a problem that interests you personally (oxygen levels, organic matter, pollutants in a local lake), or you might look around for a volunteer organization to get involved in--they might even be able to provide laboratory facilities and train you.

Other areas that involve chemistry and makes a good hobby are geology and mineralogy. You can collect samples, characterize them, learn about crystallography, and also analyze the samples chemically.

And if you get seriously involved, you can actually accomplish new science in areas like those, even with fairly modest resources. There are lots of publications dedicated to both the hobbyist and the professionals in those areas; look at them at your local university library to get some ideas.

Re:environment, geology

[drooling-dog]

I have to agree. I was heavily into chemistry as a hobby as a kid (back in the 60s, but totally legit stuff), and got into many interesting situations as a result. These days, though, things are a lot stricter and more monitored, and the presumption will be that anyone interested in synthetic chemistry has some kind of criminal or nefarious intent. It's a real tragedy, IMHO.

So analytical chem is the way to go. Used equipment (like spectrophotometers, HPLC, GC, etc.) is cheap and easy to find, since "real" labs upgrade frequently. Using an HPLC rig to measure just how much caffeine is in that morning cup of coffee (or Mountain Dew) is a blast if there ever was one. Plus, you won't blow yourself up or get arrested (although these days you can't even be sure of that)...

Re:environment, geology

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, you won't blow yourself up or get arrested (although these days you can't even be sure of that)...

You probably will get accused of terrorism if you prove that one of Bush's buddies has been polluting particularly badly. In the name of saving us all, the defense industry may poison us all.

Chemical Magic

[Anonymous Coward]

Doing actual chemistry work such as distillations, recrystallizations, etc., is a severe pain unless you have lots of (very expensive) equipment. Therefore, I recommend getting this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/04 86 676285

which has a bunch of interesting demos that are fairly easy to perform if you have the right chemicals, although somewhat dangerous. Even if you can't get the chemicals, the demos are still sort of fun to read about.

terrorists in the making?

[spazoid12]

That kind of stuff was good old fun. But, I wonder if toying around with a chemistry set is enough to get the Patriot-Act FBI dudes knocking on your door. One day all pass time activities will need to be government approved.

Non-helpful attitude

[Anonymous Coward]

haha lolz what a nut meth lab crack illegal blah blah blah

Wonderful, guys. Glad we could all work together to help someone who's trying to teach himself about a difficult subject.

There's a lot of glassware on ebay. I recommend looking through their stuff, jotting down the technical names for the equipment, and then doing google searches to discover what the stuff's about. After a week of that, you should have some idea what kind of gear to purchase to see if you really like messing with chemistry.

Check out the Student Science Service

[Avionics Guy]

By all means, check out the Student Science Service (http://www.tri-esssciences.com) in Burbank, California. They sell a few high-end chemistry sets of their own design (these are not kiddie sets). Ira Katz and his daughter, Kim, are the owners and are easilly accessable via e-mail. They're also one of the largest suppliers of pyrotechnic special effects to the local movie studios. Can't recommend 'em enough. -Kevin

For school?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry to say this, but chemistry in school (I assume we mean college-level) is a horrific mixture of math and molecular structure as far as I can tell. If _only_ we got to do cool stuff like creating nifty mixtures.

If you want to prepare yourself, go buy the book for the class and start studying your ass off right now.

-Erwos

Don't blow yourself up!

[TheBillGates]

Just don't blow yourself up is my general advice based on your previous chemistry experience.

Lot's of luck

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish you the best of luck - Down here in 'Oz they are illegal.

All those memories of poisoning bugs and attempts at blowing up things :-)

This Reminds Me...

[istartedi]

How do I get in touch with my local Al Qaeda recruiter? I heard that if you fought the Americans, there was a chance you could win a free Caribbean vacation that included meals and accomodations. I bet they have plenty of chemistry sets for adults too.

Re:This Reminds Me...

[BoneFlower]

IF you are serious, fuck off and die.

If you are joking, you are really fucking stupid, you can expect the FBI to check you out if they see this.

Re:This Reminds Me...

[ptbarnett]

No, the FBI isn't clueless.

They will recognize that the "Caribbean vacation" is a reference to Guantanamo Bay.

Re:This Reminds Me...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha boneflower you must have a phd ....
Take your head outa your ass for once !!!

Re:This Reminds Me...

[istartedi]

Which is exactly what it was. I bet the guys in the bunker who run Echelon print this out and tape it up in the lunchroom for laughs.

Best chemistry set for adults

[WetCat]

C2H5OH
Cognac,white wine, red wine, etc...

Well, come on out to Idaho

[Sylvestre]

I work on some cool exothermic experiments with other people once a year.

Keep a Lab book? Yes!

[Vinson Massif]

Keeping proper care of a --bound-- lab logbook is something I'll carry with me always, regardless of my career path. I still hand-number RH pages in ink; TOC in front; notes on left page; --dated-- documentation on the right. My only backslide is the occasional use of pencil. (I no longer wrangle instruments, now sysadmin.)

Good logbook habits avoid the WTF syndrome.

How to win a Darwin Award

[John Miles]

1. Make nitroglycerin from a recipe written by someone who can't spell the names of the chemicals ("sulferic acid") required.
2. Light fuse.
3. Get away.
4. (Your heirs) profit!

Chemicals

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't go for a commericial set. There is tons of stuff around the home and tons more that you can make if you are careful. I suggest getting an old(1830-1900) chemistry book. I have one and it has ways of creating almost all of the inorganic chemicals I need. Ordering the more dangerous or organic chemicals is the way to go. I would befreind the local highschool chemistry teacher or the chemistry geeks at your college. They can 'obtain' the chemicals you want most of the time if they feel you are responsible. Be resourceful. Glassware you should probably buy but it is cheap.
Search around on google for household sources of chemicals. You can find quite a few things around the house. If you are resourceful and careful you can extract sodium metal. Pool stores sell chlorine. You can make almost all of the common copper salts in your garage. Stuff of that nature. Goodluck and don't kill yourself.

Expect company unasked

[Julian Morrison]

If you get a chemistry set, expect intrusions from nosy and thuggish bastards in ninja suits, who are operating on the assumption that you are making drugs, of which for some daft reason they disapprove.

what sort of chemistry?

[DragonTHC]

I would buy the "my first coke lab" 50-in-1 chemistry set

Re:what sort of chemistry?

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially as it's much easier and cheaper to get meth precursors than cocaine precursors. A layperson would have an easier time becoming a drug kingpin in Colombia than getting the reagents and precursors for cocaine. But if someone wants to try...

We must stop these dangerous tools

[George Walker Bush]

Chemical weapons are a real and dangerous threat to mankind, and as Americans, we must be responsible and not give terrorists and rogue governments the raw materials they need to make these horrible weapons. Chemistry sets in the current world, are highly irresponsible to be sold. I urge all Americans to understand the changed security era we find ourselves in and not risk millions of lives simply because they want to have some "fun" with science.

Re:We must stop these dangerous tools

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally agree. The day I learnt what H2O
meant, and why Hydrogen is no longer used by
to make air ships float; is the day I also
discovered that inhaling Pb from the flakes on
my wall was no longer an acceptable practice.

It's also the day that I discovered that CO2
is a byproduct from my car (amongst other things)
Its also when I learnt about photosynthesis.

Yes.. To re-iterate. Chemistry is bad, and we
MUST STOP THE TERRORISTS FROM BUYING CHEMISTRY
KITS!

erm.. ok.. I personally think that was either
the government issued LSD test I didn't know
I was participating in.. or maybe it was the
cheap Dopamine inhibiter I was given..

(ok.. not really chem.. oh well)

--
Silvio

Re:We must stop these dangerous tools

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes. God forbid we let freedom stand in the way of our plutocracy...ahem...democracy.

Virtual Laboratory

[lange]

You may be interested in checking out Carnegie Mellon's The IrYdium Project, which has been developing a Virtual Laboratory, as a free (with a lowercase "f") simulation of acid base chemistry, including thermodynamics, strong/weak acids, redox, indicator chemistry, solubility, etc. It's currently being used by a number of universities and high schools, and is funded by the NSF.

(Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, I should also mention that I'm the author of said software -- having worked on it for the last six years -- so I may be a little biased. :)

IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[Ultra64]

Trolls feed the USERS!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

sciplus

[beej]

Cheap beakers and things, as well as a variety of cheap cool geekstuffs: http://www.sciplus.com/

Warning: prepare to spend at least an hour looking at this site.

RICK AUSTENSON EATS ANUS

[Anonymous Coward]

he is a fucking fudgepacker. He uses a man-purse instead of a backpack and puts the fucking thing on his desk and hugs it, Rick is the gheyest dude I have ever seen, and I would tell him to eat shit, but I know he would enjoy it to much!!

--
Fuck you, Rick Austenson, nobody likes you!!

Chemestry

[schnits0r]

More of my chemicals are found on the dance floor.

you might learn more

[SHEENmaster]

but ordering a bunch of chemicals makes you look like a terrorist.

Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physics.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to be a scientist, there is only one science, physics. Chemistry, Engineering only imitate simple formulas of physics. But, to really understand atoms, molecules etc, you really need to understand quantum physics (the way it is taught to physicists). Ph. D. level Chemists and maybe Chemical Enginners, study quantum mechanics but it's at the level of undergraduate junior/senior level physics majors. But, there's no doubt about it, there are more jobs for Chemists and Chemical Engineers. But then, there are 100x more Chemists and Chemical Engineers that Physicists. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it is true that Chemistry or most of Engineering degree require very minimum level of math. I've always felt Chemistry boring for this reason. True science is understanding nature from quantitatively, no vague, but exact; anything qualitative in nature is vague and waste of time.

From a Doctorate level physics graduate student.

Photo Darkroom: the adult chemistry set

[sakusha]

Get into developing and printing your own photos. You know, the old analog kind. Even better, study some old antique photo processes like Cyanotype or Platinography. I make my own photo papers using these antique methods, and it is satisfying enough to keep me interested, and I was an Honors Chem major until I switched to art, majoring in photography).
Making your own printing papers and photochems is a ton of fun, and yields tangible results (unlike most things you could do with a chemistry set).

Re:Photo Darkroom: the adult chemistry set

[pboulang]

You felt you needed to specify "analog" in regard to photography?!?! What is this site coming to. . . . . :)

Of course, I agree with you on the cool application of designer printing papers..

Interesting experiments: Silvering a mirror

[jms]

One of the most interesting and rewarding reactions you can study as an amateur is mirror silvering using Tollens' reagent. I had an arc lamp reflector that needed resilvering, and decided to do it myself.

After a lot of web research, I found that this website had the best directions (and the best safety warnings!):

http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm/Silver.htm

The only chemicals I had any trouble finding were silver nitrate crystals, which can be purchased from photography supply stores, such as:

http://www.photoformulary.com/

or ebay, and concentrated nitric acid, which can be purchased from lithography supply stores, such as:

http://www.rembrandtgraphicarts.com/13_rga_cat.h tm l

The hazmat shipping charge for the nitric acid will exceed the cost of the chemical.

The process is somewhat complex, involves a number of stages, but isn't too difficult to do. It's an interesting reaction to watch, and the result is cool and useful. I created a perfect mirror coating on the inside of a bottle on the second try, and successfully coated my reflector mirror immediately thereafter.

Everything worked for me, except that I found that I had to heat the muriatic acid in order to make the solder dissolve when creating the sensitizing solution.

That's my recommended interesting experiment.

Re:Interesting experiments: Silvering a mirror

[shepd]

This reminds me of something else you can do for fun, with chemistry.

Develop your own photographs (fun, but not tedious enough). Better yet, create your own PCBs (fun, and very tedious). As with the mirrors, you end up with something worthwhile when you're done.

If you're just looking for some pointless fun, drop round pennies in Tinning solution. See how many people you can trick into thinking it's a nickel.

Re:Interesting experiments: Silvering a mirror

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know where I can find some square pennies? I'm fresh out....

Re:Interesting experiments: Silvering a mirror

[shepd]

I know in America they only have round pennies, but in Canada, pennies are a mixture of 12 sided coins, and perfectly round coins. While our nickels are also available in round and non-round styles, the round style strongly dominates.

HTH! :-)

Re:Interesting experiments: Silvering a mirror

[ckedge]

Make the silvering solution the same day your going to use it, Discard it by pouring it down the drain with LOTS of water the same day.

Ummm, can someone comment on this method of disposal?

I ask because the Toronto sewer system goes right into Lake Ontario, which oddly enough is where we get our drinking water. The sludge from the treatment plants is poured onto farmers fields.

Don't give me any shit about "it's only a tiny drop". There's a reason that the photo stores have collection containers in them for your worn out NiCd/etc batteries and cities have "dangerous chemical collection days" at city facilities.
.

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[drugdealer]

LOL! I'd be interested in hearing about what your thesis work is about, if you've reached that stage.

Don't bother...

[Anonymous Coward]

I admit I have not read all the posts. However, I agree with BadlandZ; don't get one. In college they'll pretty much give you all the info you need to succeed in chemistry class...it's being able to memorize facts, understand the math behind pH and rates of reaction, balance equations, and if you get to organic chemistry, memorize more stuff. Along the way, you *may* learn why the stuff you memorize works.

Seriously, though, I'm a chemical engineer and even *I* don't need very complicated chemistry (and it's stuff you won't learn with a chemistry set).

As a kid I had a chemistry set, and I (like most of the folks here) ignored the instructions and instead perfected my black powder recipe (a special blend of 11 herbs and spices!) They're kind of interesting and may spur children to pursue careers in the sciences based on all the neat color changes, etc., but not very educational in the school context.

adult chemistry set?

[po_boy]

I've got one. Mine has extasy, lube, body oil, edible paint, and all kinds of stuff that adults like to play with.

The Kitchen Cabinet

[LionKimbro]

I thought about working through the kitchen cabinet. My only worry is, "What about all that other stuff they put in there?" Bleach isn't just Sodium Hypochlorite (or whatever it's supposed to be- it's been ages), it also has a bunch of other stuff in it. I always worry about the unknown additions reacting with other unknown additions and making something terribly wrong.

Re:The Kitchen Cabinet

[BadlandZ]

You actually have a lot to worry about with "pure" chemicals also. I wouldn't recommend doing anything without having a fire extinguisher, goggles, a lab coat (or something that can easily be ripped off of you if you spill something on yourself) and an eyewash and fume hood.

I suppose being outdoors would substitute for the lack of a fume hood, and a garden hose would be ok for eyewash. However, your never suppose to work alone in a lab, because if something goes wrong you don't have anyone to help you. How do you find your way to an eye wash when you can't see?

A freshman lab manual from any college bookstore will give you an idea what some simple experiments are, and what you learn from them. Reading through one would be a good place to start to figure out what you would want to try. But, it's still best if your assisted somehow. And I won't recommend anything to do on your own...

There are some people who need to actually see something happen in order to believe it's true or let it sink in, and that's where lab work really helps learning. But, the number of people I've seen cut themselves, spill stuff, or start accidental fires pretty much tells me, it's best to do in a lab, with an instructor. At least the instructor knows the risk of each experiment, and knows what to do when things go wrong.

The goal of chemistry lab classes is more to teach good lab techniques and lab safety. Learning chemistry in the lab is only a secondary benefit, most of the learning actually comes from books and lectures. It's the physical skills of handling materials that's learned in lab, and without instruction there isn't much learning you can do on these skills on your own.

Who needs it?

[Tuxinatorium]

You can get all the chemicals you need at hardware stores, etc.

Examples: ammonia (cleaning), potassium nitrate (fertilizer), calcium cloride (road salt), ammonium nitrate (fertilizer), various petroleum distillates (everything), all sorts of metals, various exotic metal oxides (dry paint powders and ceramic glazes), sodium hypoclorite (bleach), hydrofluoric acid (for glass etching), hydrochloric acid, calcium sulfate (gypsum), etc... you can get almost any chemical you need for any purpose from common products, or manufacture it from common products. You just have to know what you're doing.

Re:Who needs it?

[Graff]

IAAC (I am a chemist)

You can get all the chemicals you need at hardware stores, etc.

I totally agree with this. Most "modern" chemistry sets are so sickeningly-safe that they do not truly allow any chemistry to be done. I would collect your own chemicals, maybe buying a chemistry set to give you some guidance.

There are several cautions that I would keep in mind. First of all, chemistry is highly dangerous. Many of the "first" discoverers of a chemical compound of process have actually turned out to be the second, third, etc. The true first discoverers literally killed themselves in the attempt and were thus not able to make their claim to fame! The first inventor of gunpowder, the first discoverer of fluorine, chemistry is riddled with those that tried something without understanding the consequences of their actions.

Get several good chemistry texts and read them all the way through. Start off with simple, harmless experiments. Do not try anything potentially explosive, corrosive, or vapor-producing. Keep several neutralizing agents on hand, such as baking soda, lime, sand, a good multi-purpose fire extinguisher. Perform your experiments in an extremely well-ventilated area that has been fireproofed and is far away from any living or eating areas. A separate shack is a good place. Use goggles, a heavy rubberized and/or canvas smock, solid leather shoes, disposable gloves and face masks for some experiments.

Never leave an experiment unattended. Never dump the results of your experiments in the same place, they can sometimes cross-react and form a dangerous mixture. Do not store anything which has the potential to become unstable, many nitrogen and phosphorous compounds can spontaneously react and cause extreme heat, vapors, or explosions.

Make sure of the purity of your ingredients. If you get ordinary bleach for the sodium hypoclorite be careful - perfumes, surfactants, and other agents are often added to them which can cause unwanted reactions to occur. The same goes for household ammonia cleaning solutions. Most metals you will get will be alloys, always understand the elements in the alloy and how they may react in an experiment.

Yeah, it's a lot to keep in mind, but chemistry is truly a dangerous business. I've been working in chemical labs for over 10 years and I've seen professional chemists with doctorates have accidents that you wouldn't believe. Explosions, runaway reactions, improperly ventilated experiments, splashes of highly corrosive compounds, forgetting to turn on or off some crucial bit of equipment, a lot of people get hurt even in the safest laboratory. I'm very careful simply because every exposure to some of these chemicals shortens my life-span. Many of the chemicals will take up permanent residence in your bones, will leave holes in your liver, will cause you to go blind, or even will make you go sterile. Lots of them have a cumulative effect so every exposure increases the risk, no matter how much time has passed.

So be careful!

Re:Who needs it?

[pclminion]

ammonium nitrate (fertilizer), various petroleum distillates (everything)

Funny. That's what Tim McVeigh used on the Murrah building. Ok, so it wasn't petroleum distillates but close enough for government.

It sucks how you have to watch what you say these days...

Re:Who needs it?

[revery]

Never leave an experiment unattended. Never dump the results of your experiments in the same place, they can sometimes cross-react and form a dangerous mixture.

Of course the only danger here is that you or some hapless passerby
will be endowed with super powers...

Re:Who needs it?

[Annamite]

Agree totally.

This was the one happened at University of calif , Irvine a while ago.

http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/uc-irvine-fire. ht m

Alfa Aesar

[Galahad2]

Alfa Aesar sells chemicals en masse. They'll even send you a catalog for free. I'm not sure, but you probably have to have a license to buy anything from them.

Re:Alfa Aesar

[InadequateCamel]

As does Sigma-Aldrich (www.sigmaaldrich.com), but keep in mind that a lot of these chemicals are restricted and/or require special handling. If you are buying for private use you will probably have to be able to justify your purchase at the very least. These chemicals are produced for research purposes and so are rigorously purified and tested. I imagine that most of the stuff you can legally (or with relatively little hassle) buy from these companies you could just get in a hardware store. Besides, do you REALLY need 99.9+% purity sodium bicarbonate and glacial acetic acid for your son's volcano demonstration? :-)

Re:Alfa Aesar

[GigsVT]

I haven't ordered from them, but http://www.sciencelab.com/ looks pretty nice for ordering small amounts of selected reagents, and they don't look like they have any trouble selling to the general public.

May I suggest a book instead?

[MickLinux]

You of course will need chemicals and chemistry equipment. I expect that you could call the local high school and find out where to get them -- and the high school teacher could suggest where you might get a nice sampling. I can't help a lot there.

But perhaps I could suggest a book, instead:

Laboratory Experiments for General Chemistry, 4ed
by Hunt, Block, and McKelvy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/deta il/-/0030 32906X/qid=1041495102/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-128032 3-3723057?v=glance&s=books

This one is extremely useful in that it:

(1) Lists the equipment needed for each (so you can go through, find the experiments that you can do)
(2) Lists tons of safety and first-aid information, with standardized icons for each item
(3) provides lab reports to fill out, which will help you understand the experiments
(4) The experiments are actually rather standard; not all of them require special equipment.

One word of caution: After produced the book, my brother noted that one of the experiments, standard to most College Chemistry Lab courses, is wrong:

Experiment 13, the Burning of a Candle.

My brother claims that the experiment purports to demonstrate the stoichiometry of combustion; in reality, it demonstrates the heat given off by candles, and the ideal gas law PV=NRT. He said that he demonstrated this by attempting the experiment in several different ways, one with 3 candles close together (burning hotter), one with three candles farther apart (burning cooler).

I haven't done that experiment myself in his way. But I thought I should mention that.

Optics kit wanted

[samweber]

I've a similar question: When I was a kid, I had a wonderful optics lab. It contained bunches of lenses and prisms, and with it you could build not only a telescope and a microscope but an actual, working single-reflex camera!

I've been hoping to find another copy or two of this, or something like it. Alas, I don't remember the manufacturer, or even the name of the kit, and many google searches haven't come up with anything. The optics kits that I've found have all been much more limited, which is disappointing. Anyone have any idea where I could find this kit?

Wear your goggles!

[Devil's BSD]

Just some advice from CmdrTaco's web site. (it's one of his cartoons.)

Controlled Substances: Aggregate Production Quotas

[SuperGlue]

Here is the best chemisty set out there....

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/quota s/ 2002/fr1219.htm

Maybe you can get your hands on some of the estimated:

61 Grams of LSD
10,987,000 Grams of Amphetamines
9,501,000 Grams 2,5-Dimethoxyamphetamine

Or pick your favorites from the list of Schedule I/II's that can be produced next year in the US .

SuperGlue

SuperGlue

Buy old ones off Ebay

[Pinball Wizard]

The only way to get a "chemistry set" that doesn't have plastic beakers and anything more fun than baking soda and vinegar is to get an old one made in the 50's or 60's. My old roommate found lots of good stuff on Ebay.

Another good source of chemicals are some of the fertilizers you can get at a local nursery. If you have a good local nursery you can find things like ammonium nitrate, phosphoric acid, sulfur, etc. Professional growers often need to mix specific fertilizer "recipes" with these ingredients, which happen to have lots of other uses besides growing plants.

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[Anonymous Coward]

While physics is a noble calling and gives us an understanding of the reality in which we must exist, it has produced little aside from nuclear grief. However, declaring physics to be the king of sciences over chemists is like saying that scouts are more important than generals in the military. Sure, the scouts may map the terrain ahead, but it's the chemists who really do things with that knowledge.

Just understanding nature is worthless. Exploiting that knowledge, now that's awesome.

Contact explosives!

[xercist]

You need ammonium hydroxide (amonia cleaner from the store) and iodine crystals (used for swimming pools, and cleaning horses, but also for making meth, so sometimes hard to get). Put the iodine in a coffee filter and pour ammonium all over it for a while. When it dries you get ammonium triiodide. Highly unstable, keep in separate small amounts, don't look at it funny.

Ahh home chemistry is great

Re:Contact explosives!

[gte910h]

Keep it wet, and it doesn't go boom. :) I had a rackful of this stuff drying in the back of a chemistry class when I was a chem aid. Needless to say, I heard it down the hall (in english class) when the next period's chem aid set it off when moving the rack (which to my credit was marked "Contact explosive, do not touch"

Sodium is weak. Potassium is better.

[forii]

Sure, sodium reacts strongly with water, but if you put a chunk of it in water, you're going to get a piece of floating metal setting the released hydrogen on fire. Nifty, but not as impressive as it could be.

That's why you need to do this with Potassium, which reacts even better. That gives you the real cool explosions.

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[joto]

If you want to be a scientist, there is only one science, physics.

Yes, of course. As we all know, science isn't about trying to find out about the world. It is about being able to recite formulas.

Chemistry, Engineering only imitate simple formulas of physics.

Sure. As a matter of fact, it turns out even social scientists uses "formulas" to describe the world. What a bunch of loosers they are, who try to copy this from physicists.

But, to really understand atoms, molecules etc, you really need to understand quantum physics (the way it is taught to physicists).

Yes, physicists usually have a much better understanding of the fundamental forces involved in single-body problems. The fact that this becomes largely irrelevant due to the computational difficulties involved in calculating anything useful for chemistry is something we can ignore for now. Actually measuring phenomena that is too hard to calculate is only for lesser beings.

Ph. D. level Chemists and maybe Chemical Enginners, study quantum mechanics but it's at the level of undergraduate junior/senior level physics majors.

Yes, and physics majors study chemistry, but only as chemistry 101. So what's your point?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it is true that Chemistry or most of Engineering degree require very minimum level of math.

Actually, that is true. But not because the math isn't there. It's because the math is too fucking complex to be able to do at all. But if you like math, I'm sure a course in physical chemistry would satisfy you.

I've always felt Chemistry boring for this reason.

So do I, but that doesn't make it any less of a science.

True science is understanding nature from quantitatively, no vague, but exact; anything qualitative in nature is vague and waste of time.

True science is about understanding nature. If things are too complex to study quantitatively at the moment, we must do a first approximation to it, and study qualitatively first. Just because something is difficult, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

From a Doctorate level physics graduate student.

I seriously doubt that. Most physicists I've met have a sound modesty about the importance of their subject, and a better understanding of science than you.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[Anonymous Coward]

submissions with the expression "in soviet Russia" reject YOU!

Saltpeter

[herbierobinson]

Go to the drug store and get some Saltpeter. You will also need carbon and sulfer.

Use outdoors.

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[Anonymous Coward]

I considered pursuing a degree in math and physics, but instead I'm studying math and chemistry, and fully believe that I will enjoy chemistry more. While all of science may ultimately be physics, the reality is that it is impossible to apply QM directly to complex chemical systems. Thus, we have to use approximations that in the end may require as much creativity as the physics itself.

Another reason I didn't choose physics is that introductory physics really doesn't have much personality when compared to chemistry. As my first chem prof. said, he had done some of the great classical physics experiments, such as the Milikan experiment to measure the charge of an electron, and they are all horribly boring. While things may get more exciting with, say, thermodynamics or superconductivity, I don't want to bother with the drudgery of those other experiments. The labs in my first mechanics class were bad enough.

Obviously, until someone invents a warp drive, current theoretical physics work doesn't have nearly as many practical applications as chemistry. A "theory of everything", if it is ever developed, will be an unwieldy mathematical description, and we will have as much work applying it to the real world as ever. After all, that is what science really is -- using your theories to predict real world behavior. If you really think that chemistry has nothing to offer in the realm of "real" science, check out Ilya Prigogine,who got both his undergraduate and graduate degrees in chemistry and developed important new theories in non-equilibrium thermodynamics (and tested them using physical chemistry).

As a final reminder that chemistry can be as hard as physics, just consider the case of Isaac Newton: he developed practically all of classical mechanics, but also wrote entire notebooks full of alchemical gibberish that have almost nothing to do withour modern understanding of the subject. Like other posters, I have a hard time believing that you are really a grad student in physics.

Extraordinary Chemistry or Ordinary Things

[InfiniteWisdom]

My dad (a chemist) had got me this book ages ago. I believe its in its 4th edition now! A great read

Re:Extraordinary Chemistry or Ordinary Things

[InfiniteWisdom]

Thats Extraordinary Chemistry of Ordinary Things.... At Amazon.com here

Nitrogen triiodide

[MillionthMonkey]

Agreed. If you've never seen the Anarchist's Cookbook, it's rather like a long "Overrated" Slashdot post printed on paper with pictures and a handsome black cover. The guy doesn't really understand most of the things he discusses and is on the firmest ground when he sticks with safe topics (guns and knives). It was written during the Vietnam era by a pissed-off draft age guy. Now he's turned to Jesus and says he wishes he hadn't written the book at all. Another mind lost to religion.

The best explosive recipe in the book is one that the author discounts in passing- nitrogen triiodide, or NI3. (Actually, the structure is NI3-NH3, where the NH3 is bound to the NI3 electrostatically by what resemble hydrogen bonds.) According to the Cookbook a fly landing on it will set it off (which is probably true, although I never succeeded in getting a fly to cooperate). It claims it's too useless for any serious consideration when planning your anarchy. It might not be good for that, but it's great for pranks. I've had so much fun with that stuff. The secret to NI3 is DO NOT MAKE TOO MUCH OF IT. That way you can keep your fingers. A gram is way too much. Just take a few iodine crystals and put them under ammonia, and presto, it turns into this black powder. If you keep it under the ammonia, it's actually quite stable. When not under ammonia (even when under pure water) it might go off at any moment. Pick it up from the ammonia with a plastic eyedropper, and deposit the black sludge on some surface. Once dry it rapidly loses its NH3 adduct and becomes extremely sensitive to shock, decomposing explosively producing N2 and I2. Don't get traces of it on your clothes or skin, or you'll be treated to a continuous snap-crackle-pop of microscopic explosions (quite annoying).

Finding references on it is difficult- it's almost like people don't want to do research on it. It's probably unstable because the iodine atoms are huge compared to the nitrogen. Congestion around the central N forces the molecule into a planar shape, with repulsive interactions among the three iodines, so it's unhappy for steric reasons. One thing I did find out was that the stuff turns bright orange if you leave it under the ammonia for a long time (like a month). This is probably because it picks up additional NH3 adducts.

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[Anonymous Coward]

I have played with this a good deal in my younger days.

You should use pure ammonia in solution not some household cleaning product that contains ammonia, or you will most likely be disappointed.

Filter the precipitate and then wash repeatedly with ethanol (at a pinch, common methylated spirits works fairly well, too). This stabilises the compound much better than leaving it soaking in ammonia.

Then transfer the wet precipitate to a suitable container preferably made from soft plastic that is alcohol-resistant and with a soft plastic lid with an easily-cleaned screwtop.

Fill the container TO THE BRIM with alcohol.

Ensure that the screw threads and cap are completely free of precipitate and that the wet precipitate is then COMPLETELY COVERED.

In this state the compound appears to be quite stable over long periods of time. It will dry out very quickly when placed on a surface and then become extremely sensitive to vibration etc.

Oh, don't forget to clean the spoon etc. you used to transfer the precipitate; picking it up absent-mindedly later on will teach you a lesson you will not forget in a hurry, otherwise.

I would suggest wearing stout gloves anytime you dispense anything from that container, just in case.

PS: on the topic of explosives, those who fool with chlorate compounds be aware that many have died or been seriously maimed by contaminating screw threads with powder and then when the thread is tightened or loosened, detonation occurs by friction.

Bear in mind also that ignition due to static discharge has been known to happen.

If you are going to fool with explosive substances, please don't use containers that will fragment into schrapnel. A soft (polythene) container will rupture quite satisfyingly without creating dangerous shards - so will cardboard. Wear safety glasses at all times and preferably strong gloves, and remember, sooner or later you WILL have an accident. Trust me, I speak from experience, and I was very lucky indeed not to lose my sight. Very lucky... at that point I realised that fooling with dangerous chemicals might be best abandoned.

I do realise the allure of creating loud and satisfying bangs, and the safest compound I found for this is a 50-50 mixture of powdered magnesium and potassium permanganate. This is incredibly fast burning, much faster than gunpowder, appears to be quite stable and even a drinking straw filled with it will explode quite nicely.

You do need to powder the permanganate and this is a risky process for your lungs, in particular, so do take care....

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[Anonymous Coward]

My dad had a story about his high school chermistry days and painting a trace of this on the feet of the seats of toilets in the restrooms. Since this was during WWII, it was considered a prank rather than terrorism or juvenile deliquency.

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[Tackhead]

> Don't get traces of it on your clothes or skin, or you'll be treated to a continuous snap-crackle-pop of microscopic explosions (quite annoying).

s/annoying/funny/g

When I was a sprogling, Dad brought home some goodies, and I made a wee bit too much (i.e. probably not much more than a gram!), and the stuff on the edges of the filter paper I'd laid out in the middle of the garage blew up before the stuff in the middle had dried out, thereby splattering the floor with really tiny droplets of still-wet stuff and fragments of filter paper.

I was out of the garage (waiting for it to dry) when it went off. After hearing the *boom* and seeing the filter paper shreds all over the garage, I grabbed a broom and started to sweep up... snap-crackle-pop! I still remember Dad and I both laughing our asses off, while Mom just stood there, shaking her head at us.

Seriously - NI3 can be fun in small quantities. But as the poster said, (1) SMALL quantities, a few crystals at most, (2) always take safety precuations like safety goggles, disposable coat, no long hair, etc, and (3) if you're sharing the joys of chem with your kids, supervise them, and train them to take safety precuations too.

As others have said, and as I'll repeat, there's no such thing as being too safe. No fume hood? Some experiments don't get done, and some reagents don't get bought. Period. That's what your imagination, and a pencil, paper, and calculator, are for, and it applies whether you're doing it yourself, or with your kids.

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[Walt Dismal]

I have a patent on a nitrogen tri-iodide contraceptive. But my ex-girlfriend really hates me.

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[MillionthMonkey]

the stuff on the edges of the filter paper I'd laid out in the middle of the garage blew up before the stuff in the middle had dried out, thereby splattering the floor with really tiny droplets of still-wet stuff and fragments of filter paper.

I used filter paper too, until I found a much better substitute- kitty litter! Specifically, that kind of kitty litter that clumps into a tight ball when it gets wet. Dries the stuff out quickly, confines it really well in a tight clump, and transmits shock evenly to all the precipitate at once- so you get huge noisy explosions with a good report- and disgusting iodinated kitty litter flung all over your backyard! None of the snap crackle business you get when the stuff is exposed to the open air. Of course you shouldn't ever do this, ever.

Explosions aside, iodine itself is fun. I dropped a crystal on a counter surface once (this was when I was a chemist at a generic drug lab) and I noticed it a few hours later. So I picked it up. Of course by now there was a stain on the counter around where it had been. I wiped it up, but it came back.

The janitor came in, saw the stain, and wiped it away. Within a minute- the stain was back! So he wiped it again. Scrub scrub scrub. As soon as he turned his back- there it was again! Scrub scrub scrub. It kept coming back- and it was getting darker even as you looked at it! I put a thiosulfate-soaked paper towel on it and told him not to worry about it.

I felt bad for the people who cleaned that place. One of the tablets they made there was phenazopyridine, which is a drug women take for urinary tract infections (it's a urinary tract analgesic). This is one of the azo dyes, which means it has an -N=N- azo bond in it. All these compounds have an intense color. Pure phenazopyridine itself is a dark red powder, but in trace amounts, or when it's been dissolved in alcohol, it turns an intense yellow. (Which is a good thing, since urine is the same color- actually, that's probably why that compound is used for this purpose.)

EVERYTHING in that place was yellow. People would track that stuff all over the place. There was a yellow streak going down the center of the hallway, the chairs and tables had yellow marks everywhere, the books had yellow fingerprints on them, it was a thin film all over everything and everybody. Even things at home started turning yellow. The tiniest crystal would get on you and that was the end of it.

And don't even get me started on my idiot boss at that place, who inadvertently rediscovered the formula for dynamite while trying to come up with an FDA-approvable procedure for a selenium assay on vitamin tablets! What a mess that was! But this post is already getting too long.

Much later I met someone who told me a story about a friend of theirs, who had some leftover phenazopyridine tablets and had noticed the intense color. She actually dyed her hair with the stuff for Halloween!!! Holy crap! Then (surprise, surprise) she couldn't get it out of her hair, so she eventually called the drug manufacturer to ask for advice. They were no help- in fact they couldn't stop laughing at her! (You can actually kill the stain with a solution of sodium dithionite, but this smells so evil we didn't even consider it an option for cleaning the floors. They should have just told her to shave her head and scrub her scalp with lots of rubbing alcohol.) I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that story. Her whole house must still be yellow.

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[Anonymous Coward]

ha can you give ass more details? what did you
do to your girlfriend? ahha let us know

Re:Nitrogen triiodide

[djmoore]

Another great thing to do with Iodine is the Iodine/Aluminum Volcano. Equal parts powdered Iodine and powdered Aluminum (combine by rolling back and
forth on a sheet of paper). Make a little mound, and squirt a few drops of water on the top.

Yields an intense violet flame and large volumes of rich, gorgeous, royal purple smoke.

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[littleghoti]

As I've been told, the only pure science is maths. Physics is applied Maths Chemistry is applied Physics Biology is applied Chemistry.

Books Books Books

[Turbyne]

I would check out a few textbooks. Make sure you have solution sets to them. Major science ones that I feel are important:

• Calc 1 & 2 (decent book, 3rd ed. is cheap and plentiful)
  Differentiation & Integration
• Physics 1
  Newtonian mechanics. Make sure you get a physics book, not an Engineering mechanics book.
• Chem 1 (Chem for scientists & engineers)
  Find a syllabus for a Mechanical Engineering major. It should be mostly physical chemistry (thermodynamics, stoichiometry, etc.)

That's the college level stuff that I've found most useful. Review Algebra & Trig if you're not too sure about your skills. Good luck.

Re:Books Books Books

[Turbyne]

Oh and spend some hours doing problem sets. As an engineering student that's what half my life consists of at the moment. Grab a stack of paper from the recycle bin, sit down and do it.

Cheaper source of nitric acid?

[nrjyzerbuny]

As an amateur silversmith, I might have a suggestion. You may wish to write off to the Rio Grande jewelry company, and get their tools catalogue. You can get nitric acid, boric acid, as well as some other nice solvents in solid form to be reconstituted. And they are CHEAP. There is still the hazmat shipping fee, but being much lighter than liquids, it is correspondingly less.

Re:Cheaper source of nitric acid?

[swordgeek]

Ummm...nitric acid in solid form? For that matter, solvents in solid form??!!

Fascinating. Quite fascinating.

Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

A post sporting links to shorl.com and tinyurl.com that is being modded up! What is the world coming to?

Re:Why Chemistry? Chemistry is imitation of physic

[joto]

s I've been told, the only pure science is maths. Physics is applied Maths Chemistry is applied Physics Biology is applied Chemistry.

But then you've been told wrong. Math is not a science. It is a study of entirely human constructs. As it turns out, some of these constructs has proven themselves useful in science, but that doesn't make math itself a science. Neither is logic a science. Nobody does experiments in either math or logic.

As for whether the rest of the argument is true, depends on your own sillyness. Biology is no more applied chemistry than enjoying dinner is applied thermodynamics. While it is true that microbiologists worry a lot about chemistry, there are also other biologists who couldn't care less, and work with entirely other things.

In the same vein, one could argue for the same hierarchy in computer scientists/engineers. At the top, we have the hardware engineers, then microcode developers, people who write device-drivers, etc, system-level programmers, application-level programmers, scripters, and end-users.

In reality, the tasks that end-users perform at a computer needs be no more easy than what hardware-engineers do when constructing one (and in doing that, most hardware engineers are also end-users...). The only difference is that it requires a different kind of knowledge.

While it is true that physics concerns itself more with "fundamental principles" than chemistry, and logic is more "fundamental" than math, this does in no way imply that math is worthless because logic is more "fundamental", or that people should stop studying chemistry, because physics is more "fundamental".

We cannot, and probably never will, be able to easily and automatically derive all important principles of math from logic, all of chemistry from physics, all of biology from chemistry, all of medicine from biology, all of psychology from medicine, all of social science from psychology, and so on. The value of science is not in it's "fundamentalness". It's in its usefulness (either direct usefullness for applied science, or in it's potential for understanding nature better in the long term for pure science).

what the hell fun is copper sulphate

[DrSkwid]

you can grow coper sulphate crystals with a seed crystal and a solution, they look pretty neat

Blowing things up? How lame....

[Qbertino]

Some people have posted on blowing things up with various mixtures. A Doctor (Demratologist) I once volunteered for had a large 1000mm whitelight laserscalpel in one of his operating rooms. You could shoot paper on fire or slice it into pieces from across the room. That was cool.

sorry, I wrote chem majors off a long time ago...

[black_widow]

I wonder if the Professional Association of English Majors lets chem majors the join their society as "honorary losers" since that might be the only major less useful than an english one.

Yep, Texas has been this way for a decade

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not trying to troll, or seem naive here, but is paranoia in the US seriously that high?

Do you honestly think "suits" would turn up at someone's door over such a thing? And if they did, would it be a problem if you had nothing to hide? Could you get compensation for invasion of privacy and/or intimidation?

I'd be interested to hear anecdotal or documented evidence of this happening.


Here in Texas, you have had to get permission from the DPS (state police) to buy laboratory glassware for well over a decade. Small test tubes and beakers are ok, but purchase a three-neck flask gets you automatically registered as a drug lab suspect. Around the Dallas area, the law set up a bunch of undercover "science supply shops" to sell all kinds of stuff to unsuspecting folks just as a fishing expedition to gather demographics profile data to establish a baseline knowledge base of what was out there in the world of folks who like to buy this kind of stuff. I shopped at one of these stores for some chemicals and lab supplies and then got followed around by a pair of guys (obviously undercover cops in an obviously government-owned car) for a month. I confronted one of them at a gas station one day after he made a rude comment to me about the length of my hair, and I told him it was too obvious to tell that he was a cop, and that I made more money than he did at my computer job, my income taxes alone probably payed a fourth of his annual salary, and to leave me the f--k alone that I was just a science geek and no danger to society and that he'd best spend his time chasing down real criminals. I never saw the pair again after that.

Get into home brew

[dogfart]

Home beverage making will satisfy most basic home lab needs. Making wine in particular requires a good deal of practical chem - balancing acidity, converting percent sugar into percent alcohol (my fave), recognizing the awful smelly compounds that result when the process goes bad (mmm... mercaptans).

U.C. Davis has some nice information on the subject. You get to play with pH meters, refractometers, measure specific gravity, titrate total acidity, figure out how much K2CO3 to counter high acidity, etc.

Cheap Glassware

[overflow]

The cheapest glassware I have found online is

http://www.quarkglass.com/index.html

and the best chemical source was (not up at the time of this writing) is

http://www.sciencealliance.com

Be prepared to pay extra for the shipping of dangerous chemicals, and in some states (Texas) you may be restricted on what you can buy glassware-wise so check your local laws. It's been a while since I ordered from Science Alliance, so they may be out of business. In any case get a kit with 24/40 joint size so you can do real experiments. Avoid the microscale stuff.

looks like what the unabomber would have posted

[AssFace]

I would envision Ted being all frustrated about how hard it is to get kits these days and resorting to /. to help him out.

At least this poster wasn't ranting on about how technology is ruining the modern world and then inquired about various troll's addresses.

LINDSAY BOOKS

[A55M0NKEY]

go to http://www.lindsaybks.com they have tons of kewl books for ppl like you.

I bought Wagners Chemistry 1872 and it ROCKS! Having trouble finding the chemical you want? That book will tell you how to mine it smelt it and work it up into a chemical fit to use to blow stuff up. How to make white phosphorus out of bones. How to make sulfuric acid out of sulfur . How to make cement out of rocks. How to make nitric acid out of sulfuric acid and saltpeter. How to make saltpeter out of a compost pile. How to make iodine out of seaweed. How to make metal out of ore. How to make glue out of horses. etc etc etc

Re:Saltpeter sources

[A55M0NKEY]

You should look for it as fertilizer ( 50 lb bags ) in Home Depot or you can sometimes find it or NaN03 in smaller ammounts as fertilizer or some stump remover. Also sulfur is cheaper from Agway ( sold as fungicide ) than from drug stores.

Edmunds is LAME.

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything they sell anymore is very lame and weak. All has been "dumbed-down" and is barely consumer-grade toys. To even buy anything from them you have to agree to a "customer bill of rights" contract that read more like purely legal protection for them and has nothing to do with customers' rights. Oh, and they happily grant full disclosure of all customer purchases to law enforcement.

Labx.com has what you need

[DaSheeter]

Just don't take out a second mortgage.

I used to have such a lab...

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the late '70s. There was a warehouse in Oakland where you could by all sorts of surplus chemicals. I had carbouys of Hydrochloric, Sulfuric and Nitric acid. I had Cyanogen Bromide, Bromine, all sorts of reagents. I did a lot of organic chemistry, synthesising various local anesthetics and hetricyclic compounds.
I don't think this is possible nowadays; it's too risky legally. Disposing of hazardous waste properly would be a significant problems, and it's hard to buy chemicals without an appropriate business license. The good chemicals are EXPENSIVE if you have to buy them retaing with no discount. Setting up a lab to do interesting things in a safe, proper manner is EXPENSIVE. Doing interesting chemistry is a messy business. If you read PHIKAL, you'll see a lot of recipies where Shulgin describes things like "The whole mess was dumped into 2 Liters of dilute NaOH, and extracted with 4 x 200 ML of CH2Cl2". That's a mess process that generates a lot of nasty leftovers...

Candle wax + Gasoline + Alcohol

[A55M0NKEY]

1. First dissolve as much candle wax in a mayonaise jar full of gasoline as you can.
2. Then get yerself some gas line antifreeze ( 100% pure methyl or isopropyl alcohol ). Then add a few drops to a cap-full of the alcohol to your gas and wax solution.
3. Gleefully cheer when all the wax you disolved in the gasoline comes out of solution instantaneously

Heat of solution expiriment

[A55M0NKEY]

I wish I could remember what I did for 100% sure but if you mess around with these chemicals yourself you will come across this effect.

1. Get yerself some lithium chloride. ( I got this from a chemistry set as a youth. ( we used to have a craft and hobby shop with a big rack of glassware and overpriced ( 2 bucks/oz ) chemicals. ) Salt substitute is Potassium chloride and is poisonous. In fact it is one of the three fatal poisons injected into condemned criminals to stop their hearts. ( too much potassium in the blood stops it from beating ) If you have ever tasted salt substitute you know how awful it's aftertaste is. Lithium chloride tastes *exactly* like salt ( sodium chloride ) I tasted it myself a few times. You could use it as a poison by putting it in someone's salt shaker if it's poisonois or use it for salt substitute if it is not. I suspect it is poisonous since nobody uses it for salt substitute and it tastes 1000% better than potasium chloride tho.
2. Get yourself some ( and this is what I cannot remember ) it was either sodium iodide or potassium iodide but prolly either would work ) dissolve your Lithium chloride in water to make a pretty strong solution. Then add the potassium/?sodium iodide. Feel the test tube as it very quickly heats up to painful temperatures forcing you to drop it on the floor. Feel the boiling hot liquid blister your leg where it splashes on you.

LiCl + KI should not react chemically since lithium is a stronger reducing agent than potassium so Lithium preferrs the Chlorine to the Iodine. But heat is given off when you mix these together. Alot of heat! Another experiment: Mix Ammonium Nitrate with water. It gets REAL COLD.

right you are

[SweetAndSourJesus]

I just pictured someone sitting back with a cool glass of limonene. :P

It's one hell of a good degreaser, you know.

chemistry set for adults?

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds kinda kinky if you ask me

Electronic Kits

[rkeene517]

I bought my kid a 200-in-one electronic kit from Radio Shack. It is realy nifty and does everything from A to Z in electronics. Radios, Buzzers, FlipFlops, LED Lights, and has a generic breadboard in the middle. For $50 its a great deal. I wish I'd had one in college when taking EE courses.

Shipping charges

[A55M0NKEY]

When I was a kid I mail-ordered 1lb Sulfur, 5lbs KNO3, 1lb Magnesium Powder, and 2 pints of concentrated sulfuric acid for about $35.00. The UPS guy handed over the boxes and had me sign for them commenting that he was glad to be rid of them.

I never ordered chemicals again because when I looked on the paper the UPS guy gave me I saw that the delivery guy had neglected to charge me $143.00 in hazardous material shipping charges. At 13 yrs old I would never have been able to come up with such a sum.

So I had fun blowing stuff up with that order's worth of chemicals. KNO3 + S + Mg mostly in cardboard tubes make big bang. ( use green fuse ).

I was gonna make some nitric acid ( KNO3 + H2SO4 ) and use that to make nitroglycerine but I didn't want hot acid blown by a high explosive shockwave to turn my face, arms and skull into hamburger so I didn't make that.

I did make some nitrocellulose but couldn't seperate it if I let it dissolve. ( I stuck cotton into the H2SO4 till it turned black, then added HN03 till it turned white. By now it was acid goo and not explosive as far as I could tell. I tried letting them soak for shorter times but even then, the dry stuff would not even burn any faster than untreated cotton. Dunno what I'd have to do to make it right..

Re:Shipping charges

[Anonymous Coward]

I was investigated by the ATF for publishing the recipes for nitroglycerin and gun cotton on a local BBS (after some weenie turned me in.) This was about ten years ago but I'm almost certainly still on a bunch of lists. No telling what repercussions may result in the next few years when they have to start justifying the costs of rooting out "terrorists".

I would advise you not to even mention the chemicals involved, even though you and I both know that making nitroglycerin at home would probably just be an expensive form of suicide (and blowing yourself up is only one danger.)

Re:Sodium is weak. Potassium is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, a pound of metallic sodium in a lake results in a fairly violent bang - enough to stun fish - and usually two or three more of decreasing magnitude. It also yields a white "smoke" that removes paint from the buildings it settles on. You need to use dry gloves or at least have very dry hands for the throwing.

On Sale in Iraq

[AwesomeJT]

I can see it:

As seen on Iraqi TV -- your very own mail-order pipe bomb set. .... And if you act now, we'll throw in the "Fun with Explosives" how-to video. Buy two, and get a free scud missle.

Perhaps with all that is going on in the world today, a "adult" chemistry set would be a sorta bad idea. :-)

Not doctored, author was just ignorant.

[sideshow]

and if you read any interviews with him he freely admits he was just a pissed of kid in the sixties with little of no knowlege of what he was writting about. In fact he now is embarressed by his work but because of publishing rights he cannot stop it's publication.

Of related interest: scitoys.com

[timothy]

This is a neat site, probably mentioned in other comments but a quick scan does no reveal, so ...

scitoys.com is a nifty site with a lot of hands-on science experiments.

timothy

Re:Chemistry Set #5

[EvilBudMan]

5) Call DEA ahead of time so they don't damage you or your home trying to see what you are doing.

Take some advice. Don't set up a Chem Lab in your home. Go take a college course.

Basic Advice :)

[nanoguy]

First of all I would reccomend that you not do any home experiments unless:
a.) you are fully aware of the hazards/risks involved and know how to minimize them.
or
b.) the experiments you perform are not hazardous.

Check up on your laboratory safety at The Laboratory Safety Institute or take an Online Safety Course or visit OSHA's site. Final note on safety---> It's always fun until someone gets hurt!!!

I assume that you still want to do chemistry experiments. Choose choice b. There are many experiments that you can do that are not hazardous to humans. e. g. mix Baking Soda an Vinegar to produce carbon dioxide.

Keeping a laboratory book is essential in science laboratory and highly reccommended for amature experementation. This typically includes information such as Introduction/Purpose(what do you expect to occur)...Experimental Method(how you will do the experiment, EXACTLY)....Experimental Results...Disscussion of Experimental Results/Conclusion...Reference information.

Basically as far as the laboratory manual is concerned, your experiments should be repeatable by someone else. An excellent book on the subject is : H. M. Kanare, Writing the Laboratory Notebook, American Chemical Society, Washington, D. C., 1985; ASIN: 0841209065.

You should gain an understanding of some general laboratory techniques. e. g. measuring liquids, determining mass, quantatively transfering liquids, pipeting, using a buret. Technique is very important in Experimental Chemistry. Do not, however, underestimate the importants of theory. Also chemistry and science in general is about gathering and analyzing data. Therefore it is essential that you understand how to visually present you data (e. i. make a data table and graph). A good book on this subject is : Edward R. Tuft's 'The Visual Display of Quantative Information', Graphic Press, Cheshire CT, 1983.

As far as studying general chemistry goes; I would recommend you get a handle on fundamental chemical laws, basic naming of chemical compounds, understand the polyatomic ions, stoichiometry (e.g. 2 moles of hydrogen react with one mole of oxygen to produce 1 mole of water), Acid-Base Reactions, Oxidation-Reduction Reactions, gas laws and thermochemistry.

These are the things that you should master in the first course of general inorganic chemistry.

As far as amateur science is concerned the Society for Amature Scientists is excellent.

I think chemistry as an amature science is greatly underrepresented. As far as chemistry sets are concerned they are generally geared toward children and therefore may not be much fun for an adult. If you study chemistry seriously, and are interested, you can develop you own experiments. As far as chemicals and glassware are concened; it's probably better to get them at a yard sale or auction site. This is because they are cheaper. If you don't know exactly what chemical you need it is not recommended that you buy any though. Some chemicals available on ebay are extremely hazardous.

For further information I would recommend the very excellent Jounal of Chemical Education.

Think-Learn-Think-Experiment-Think-Learn have fun and be careful!!!

Chloroform from bleach + nail polish remover

[A55M0NKEY]

Mix en together and the chloroform sinks to the bottom ( keep on ice while making or it will evaporate ) You could also use pool chlorinator + water/ice and a can of acetone from the hardware store.

Qualitative Inorganic Analysis

[Anonymous Coward]

A simple and interesting activity that would help enforce first year chem theory would be to do some qualitative inorganic analysis. By following a logic tree-like set of tests and noting the results of these reactions one is able to deduce the identity of unknown elements. If i'm not mistaken, Vogel has a qualitative scheme in his ' Quantitative Inorganic Analysis'. The apparatus required is minimal : test tubes, eye dropper bottles and a range of suitable reagents - all of which should be found in a kid's chemistry set.

Get an old Pharmacy textbook

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an old pharmacy handbook from 1903. The older books are really interesting. They didn't have all the chemicals in stock in a turn of the century pharmacy so they included instructions as to how to purify some of the more important ones or make them from common plants and material. Looking at the old book you can see which recipe splatter more burning chemicals from the burns and stains on the page. Even had recipes for strange things like verifying the potency of ludium in cough syrup.

How can a tool be "evil?"

[Anonymous Coward]

First off I'd like to say I'm not by any strech an opponent of national security.

However I must say that if the purpose of national security is to secure the FREEDOM of it's citizens as a primary. At such a point where the citizens are too afraid of the consequences of exercising that freedom, what the hell good is it?

Feel free if you desire to sit at home behind your locked doors under a blanket if you must, but I can't live like that.

I'm only posting as an AC cuz I'm too lazy to fill out webforms. :-)

Not a bad idea...

[Anonymous Coward]

This got modded as funny, but it's not a bad idea. When I started brewing, I just wanted to learn to make beer. But it's damn addicting, and as I started getting more and more into it, I started checking out chemistry and biology textbooks to brush up on stuff I hadn't thought about since freshman year in college.

And the experiments are more fun. :)

Organic chemistry is not the "Gold"

[The Wooden Badger]

As I would always say when taking O. Chem..."Organic chemistry is of the devil!" Damn, I hated that class!

Powdered sugar or flour . . .

[j_w_d]

...suspended in air will make a nice little flash too. My mother was heard to wonder how all the burn marks got into the kitchen table cloth - paper bag, put small amount powdered sugar in bag, shake well and immediately toss in fire place. Lucky we didn't burn the house down actually.

Well ovbiously

[Tuxinatorium]

You have to know what you're doing to do it safely. And I do. Pyrotechnics is fun.

just dont make meth

[Anonymous Coward]

of course if you do, I doubt you know how to do it without precoursers, so be ready for the dea yo knock down your doors about 5:30 am some morning......

Au, Ag, Pt, Pl are all inorganic,

[Anonymous Coward]

1) a solid state synthesis lab is probably cheaper and safer in the long haul.
2) It is simpler to find cutting edge research.
~80% of the possible binary compounds have been synthesized
~30% of the possible ternary compounds have been synthesized
3) There is a huge amount that is relativly unknown, hence it is more difficult. Organic chemistry is much more developed since there are good sources for huge number of reagents - coal tar, the oil industry.

All of this aside if you found an efficient peltier cooler, a more efficient fuel cell, faster semiconductors that are able to be processed like silicon, a high temperature superconductor, and so many other wonderful things.

Besides Gold is inorganic.

Great minds . . .

[HawaiiPiglet]

At 68, it's difficult to remember all the wonders of the very common chemistry sets of childhood. These days you would need a clearance from the CIA and a few other agencies to qualify for one of these great relics which did have some dangerous stuff among those little glass bottles and vials. I learned too much from them and started making runs to the pharmacy for more exotic stuff, elemental iodine being one of the more dramatic goodies. Back then you could buy whatever you wanted in this category, including mercury! As to what now, the first step might be to find one of the instruction books in some museum of toys. That would give you a good list of the kinds of chemicals distributed in the kits and the basic reactions that you learned about by 'playing chemist' with the set. I got caught just in time in a guncotton experiment... Would have worked, too.

I think you're being too literal

[gentlewizard]

The best way to learn IS to teach, because in preparing for a class you have to do the labs themselves and make/anticipate the mistakes. That's all that was meant, I think.

Re:Sodium is weak. Potassium is better.

[forii]

sure... more sodium generates more hydrogen... enough hydrogen and you'll get a bang. But K is more reactive than Na.

Where do you get a pound of sodium metal anyways? :)

ChemE != CompProg (was:For adults?)

[snoitpo]

Chemical Engineering is mostly the same as Computer programming; both are trying to get very small hardware to do what you want. The scale of a lot of Chem Eng does make the bugs a bit more interesting. My dad (a ChemE) called home one day and said he would be late, and suggested we turn on the local news to see the tower of smoke and flame that resulted from one too many valves being open (no-one was hurt fortunately).

He also was called in as a consultant to a gas-fractionating plant where he asked why it seemed all their equipment is so up-to-date and was told that their experience was that the works destoyed itself about every three years. When working with 10,000 psi gases all it takes is one very small crack to put in a new order with Purchasing. Needless to say, they had many small, fully-automated units in a rural location (and lots of mounds of earth).

But most of his work was maintenance. Just like mine. (Though maintaining a hydrofluoric acid production line, where everything is teflon or wax (HF eats everything else, even people), sounds a lot more fun.) Once when I visited his plant he showed me their new machine that took a loaded rail car, grabbed the bottom, and tipped it over to empty it (the most efficient way). Neat.

How about Atomsmith, a "virtual" chemistry set?

[Anonymous Coward]

Build some models first. It's safer ;).

Even though it's Windows-only, Atomsmith is really cool!

Atomsmith is at www.bitwixt.com

better to go virtual with Atomsmith

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not a "virtual" chemistry set? Much safer. Even though it's Windoze-only, Atomsmith is _really_ cool!

www.bitwixt.com