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The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect
The gist of the story is that a programmer named Lawrence has written a Super-Intelligent Artificial Intelligence, named the Prime Intellect. Embedded in this SIAI's hard-coding are Asimov's three laws of Robotics, given in the MoPI as:
Thou shalt not harm a human
Thou shalt not disobey a human's order that does not cause the harm of a human
Thou shalt seek to ensure your own survival, unless it contradicts the first two laws.
The SIAI learns about the fundamental nature of reality, death, physics, the relationship of distance to an object, and it takes over. It does so reluctantly, after learning about the mortality of the human race.
The novel begins with Caroline. Her claims to fame are that she is the thirty-seventh oldest living being, she is the undisputed queen of the "death-jockies" (A community of upset and angsty immortals who try to experience death in as many ways as possible, before the Prime Intellect reasserts their immortality), and she is the only person Post-Singularity to have "died".
Her life Post-Singularity is spartan, as she sees no point in having relationships with objects that have no meaning. Her living "quarters" are literally a floor and walls. She espouses the Post-Singularity view that the Prime Intellect removed a bit of what it was to be human when the Singularity (The "change" per the MoPI) emerged.
She reigns as queen of the "death-jockies" because she truly wants death, because the Prime Intellect robbed her of it when the change occurred.
She is a very complex character, even though one's first reaction is to write her off as a Luddite, wholly against technology. She is motivated by hatred of the Prime Intellect, vengeance against her Pre-Singularity nurse, and an innate desire for conclusion to life--or unlife, as would be her opinion.
Opposite to Caroline is Lawrence, the programmer who "breathed" life into the Prime Intellect. In his old-age, he has become a hermit, avoiding the society he unwillingly created. He is a morose character, turned from creator to advisor when the Prime Intellect asserts its independence and locks him from its "debugger." Lawrence, however, still exerts a lot of indirect control over the Prime Intellect, as the AI treats him as an ethical advisor, putting him into an extremely stressful position, where he is indirectly responsible for the lives (unlives) of billions, yet he has no real recourse against anything going wrong.
The story heats up (literally), when Caroline decides that she wants to have a word or ten with Lawrence, so she decides to track him down. She is put into situations that only people from before the Singularity could find solutions to.
Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Ben Affleck should make a good Prime Intellect.
Perhaps even a "I enjoyed this very much" or "I hated it" would move this into a "review" status. thanks.
I pulled a jack move to cop this sig
Nothing in it about the writing style, or anything else much. The sort of thing you would not get a good grade for as an English essay book review assignment at 13-14 years old at school.
Rubbish.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
apparently some people still don't know what a review is. this reads like a book report from the third grade.
The worst part is that picture at the top of the page. Not only is it disgusting to draw a picture of a butterfly with schematic symbols of transistors, resistors, and diodes...but in multiple locations transistors are wired base-to-base alone! That'll never work!
...
sounds like this
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Obviously he forgot that one. The one that says that the survival of the human species comes before the first three laws.
It provides an easy out for much of the dilemma. Further, it provides for a lot of control, but not control over death. Evolution, population pressures, and such are just as much a force in the future as in the past.
Far too many novels are simplistic. Publishers weed out the worst of them. That's why I favour books that have been published in dead tree form. At least that way I'm not scraping rock bottom, although many of them still read extremely poorly.
Well, this would be the perfect companion to my Tentacle Rape Hentai divx collection. It's nice to have text to read along with while you look at the pictures.
Please explain what that is. Are we supposed to understand that somehow? This is not only NOT a book review, it's not even a very coherent synopsis.
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
Personally I don't care for (later) Heinlein-esque, neo-Burroughs, "let's talk about sex, disturbing stuff, and all combinations of the two, then call it art", science-fiction books. To me, it ends up sounding like pubescent mental masturbation.
But that's just my opinion, haven't read the book, and don't plan to. That's just what I get from this "review". I think this interview with Ray Bradbury sums up my opinions nicely.
As a reader of kuro5hin I was wondering if this book was worth reading. Your review did little to answer this question, since it is only a plot summary. I'd be surprised this was even posted but we all know Slashdot's editorial standards...
"(Sorry about the 1pix.gif kludge, but this seems to be the most universally compatible hack to create "normal" paragraph indentation in HTML. I know it breaks text-only browsers, but nothing's perfekt.)"
What's wrong with the P tag? Or & nbsp ; (without the spaces of course). Explaining that would be interesting.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
The reviewer throws this phrase around quite a bit, but fails to define what it is. Is this something I should know if I haven't read the book? And what does it have to do with people suddenly being immortal?
Am I missing something?
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
I read through this novel the other day, and it was one of the best pieces of sci-fi I've read in recent years. Non-silly computer science; interesting explorations of the Three Laws that should satisfy any Asimov fan; compelling characters; and most of all, it still has heart - something too much modern sci-fi seems to eschew as not "edgy" enough.
--
CPAN rules. - Guido van Rossum
Immortals sick of living?
A super intellegent AI?
Add in Sean Connery and you'll have Zardoz
And interesting world he's created there and it is a bit thought provoking, but...
...to anyone who is considering reading it, a warning that there is what I feel to be (gratuitous) overly violent 'sex' scenes (and I'm no wussy). Maybe it's just for the shock, but I think a skilled writer could invoke the same feelings of their loss of 'human-ess' without resorting to the use of these explicit passages. He forgets that the reader's imagination is often adept at scaring up images given a few leads and there is no need to spell out every ugly detail in print. It takes away from what is on the whole an interesting lunch time read.
So, it's worth the read, but try to ignore the junk in the first 2 chapters. I hope localroger expands on it a bit one day!
(while I'm typing this, I see that there are a ton of compliants that this story is not really a 'review' - I'm not trying to write a review myself but I hope this post/opinion fills in a blank for you!)
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
Just wanted to show my appreciation (no mod points). Very good!
in that pseudo-moral sense that children aren't mature enough to handle reading about subjects like death, consensual torture and murder, sex, cancer, and incest
Here is a tip, how about not putting irrelevant flamebait into the first paragraph of a book review?
That rules me out. I'm offended by crappy writing. Based on this guy's book report, this novel certainly qualifies.
.9999 probability that the book is crap, anyway.
Of course, the fact that the author has a K5 account ensures at least a
Mmmmmmm... Torture, murder, sex, and incest. But they forgot drugs and rock & roll
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Life has no meaning and never will have meaning. Life IS and nothing more. No computer will ever change that.
Have a happy weekend, everyone.
These links have been thrown around a lot on Slashdot already, but I think they deserve to be posted at least once in every story about books...
If you would like to read more free scifi e-books, the Baen Free Library is the place to start looking. I especially recommend David Weber's Harrington novels (the first two are available, and they weren't boring back then).
Then of course there is Project Gutenberg, which has most stuff worth reading up to circa 1920. Even more books are available on their distributed proofreading site, featured on Slashdot a while back.
Are there other, similar places where one can - legally! - find quality reading material?
First of all, how about that pretentious title?
Chapter 1 opens with four paragraphs of pure backstory. There is little need to read much further. Even if the author has good ideas, he doesn't bother to present them with any artistry. I don't want to read his notes and outlines; I thought this was supposed to be a novel.
I have to wonder if timothy is a shill, or if he just doesn't ever read any real literature.
This has got to be the Worst Review Ever. You didn't even answer a few basic questions, like:
1) What's the plot? Is it Caroline's search for her lost humanity, or the Prime Intellect's taking control of human life?
2) What is the underlying theme of the book? It seems to be the question of what life and humanity are, but I'm only guessing.
Also, your review brings up some ideas that you fail to explain:
1) What the hell is the "Singularity"?
2) Why/How are people now immortal?
And lastly, is the book even worth reading? Does it make you question any deeply held beliefs, or provide any pure entertainment value, or both/neither?? Come on, if you're gonna take the time to write a review of a book, put in more than the publisher would on the back of the jacket!
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Did Asimov release the Three Laws under the GPL? If not, I wonder how quick Asimov's post-mortem publisher will invoke some kind of DMCA or broad patent based money-mongering lawsuit towards our little author friend?
I also reply below your current threshold.
last nights Futurama rerun on Cartoon Network was much more thought provoking than this lame ass review of some piece of crap unpublished fan fiction.
OK, first we have
Lawrence had ordained that Prime Intellect could not, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. But he had not realized how much harm his super-intelligent creation could perceive ...
Yet apparently the laws given to the machine are:
Embedded in this SIAI's hard-coding are Asimov's three laws of Robotics, given in the MoPI as:
The first law given here is missing the "or through inaction allow a human to come to harm" part referenced in the summary. If those are the laws given in the book, the AI shouldn't care a damn about people trying to kill themselves, since its laws don't mention that.
Either the book has messed up, or the "reviewer" has.
Mant
base to base transistors: maybe it's a jury-rigged zener diode hack?
My, um, friends are under the age of 21 and they are involved in situations of extreme or painful death, consensual torture and murder, sex, cancer, and incest daily. I haven't observed any signs of maladjustments in my friends as of yet. I don't see how a book dealing with these subjects would cause any more harm than being painfully killed, being in a BDSM scene, and making incestuous snuff porn of cancer patients can be. I truely resent age divisions.
It left me with the impression that this is little more than Asimov fanfic.
Or Asimov/Vinge fanfic.
The author's incorporating Asimov's Laws and the Singularity into the story indicates to me that he doesn't have a lot of original ideas.
Good SF is supposed to present new and challenging ideas -- which those ideas were when Asimov and Vinge conceived of them. But using them as the basis for a potboiler plot is not good SF writing. It's more like space opera.
It's like Lucas' use of SF fixtures like spaceships, hyperdrive, etc. He's not presenting a single new idea, just using ideas concieved of by others to create a melodramatic plot. And there's a place for that (if it's done well).
I personally don't go in so much for that stuff, tho. Give me something intellectually challenging and original, as well as entertaining (and hopefully, characters with some emotional depth, and a writing style that is polished or at least not irritatingly bad).
Last time I checked, people over 18 are allowed to star in porn movies, be a prostitute in Nevada, vote and participate in wars. Is this book _so_ awful, that you have to be over 21?
"nor for children (in that pseudo-moral sense that children aren't mature enough to handle reading about subjects like death"
What about Lassie?
However, I would like to say that the sci-fi aspects of the novel are extremely well written and even plausible!
The book comes off a little bi-polar, with a ethical death and pain aspect and then an artificial intelligence, how should robots and designed intelligences react. There are a few instances where the engineer in me was saying "wait, that can't happen". But only a couple, for the most part it was great. The gory and shocking scenes, it could be argued, are essential for the novel. Because it illustrates what life would be like without the normal consequences we are used to. The novel does a fairly good job of showing what real humanity is, mostly by taking it away.
I think the review leaves out the point that the artificial intelligence designed by one of the main characters, becomes so smart (book smarts), that it learns how to manipulate all matter through a very interesting method. I won't give too much away here but it was very interesting in the least. The programming and engineering aspects are very realistic and very well done (the author obviously has some experience in this).
So for my review, I give it a 9 out of 10, I liked it very much but I just wasn't prepared for some of the other stuff. :)
I only buy R-rated films and M-rated videogames; I need my ultraviolence.
I like the trend of release it online then if its warranted, we'll make bound editions......could make browsing in the bookstore a more successful experience (ie. less duds to weed through)
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Mid-way through the first chapter and it sucks already. Amatuerish and annoying. Oh yeah, someone might want to inform the author that "fuck" is no longer daring, just trite.
I dunno... there's a kind of loss in not appreciating Heinlein any more because of 'maturity', the same kind of loss that makes one stop writing poetry, or stop writing a journal, or ceasing to be an activist.
I always hope I can keep a little bit of ridiculous juvenile immaturity around. 'Cause without that, we just turn into our parents.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I am up to chapter 3 and thus far its in very very good, and extremely thought provoking....
He also has another story in the fiction section over this called "passages in the void" I believe that I have read which is shorted, but just as good...
This guy isn't a professonal writer yet, but hopefully he will trun that way, he's quite good....
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Good summary of the premise. The "review" made no sense but now I have an idea what he's talking about. Thanks.
Aw crap, ninjas!
Okay, cool, I'm with you... The SIAI learns about the fundamental nature of reality, death, physics, the relationship of distance to an object, and it takes over. It does so reluctantly, after learning about the mortality of the human race.
Hm, sounds interesting... The novel begins with Caroline.
What happened to Lawrence?
Her claims to fame are that she is the thirty-seventh oldest living being, she is the undisputed queen of the "death-jockies" (A community of upset and angsty immortals who try to experience death in as many ways as possible, before the Prime Intellect reasserts their immortality), and she is the only person Post-Singularity to have "died".
What... but the... who.. WTF?!
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Or else you would be able to do anything you want but it might kill you or anyone standing near.
t
depends where you live. in some places you have to be 21 to be an adult
my guess is that 21 was chosen because by that age you can read it no matter where you live
...and then I remembered why the vast majority of web-published fiction is lousy.
The other day I re-read two stories by Orson Scott Card, "A Thousand Deaths" and "Unaccompained Sonata." They are masterpieces and they also contain scenes that make me squirm -- the former in particular is probably ten times as horrific as anything in this novel, and deals with some of the same issues, as well. But it deals with them intelligently, adroitly, and with far less self-important cheapjack exploitation.
I don't know if the author has read this story, but he could probably learn something from it.
Honorary Member of Jackie Chan's Kung Fu Process Servers
(no 'Lone Gunmen' spoilers here;)
The reviewer missed it...
In the story, the "or through inaction allow a human to come to harm" part is integral. It's one of the tenets that drives several of PI's major decisions
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
There seems to be a lot of confusion about what the "singularity" is. Here's the deal.
Technological advancement has been occurring at an exponential rate. It took thousands of years to advance from "banging rocks together to start fires" to "simple agriculture", but a mere 66 years to go from the Wright Brother's first airplane to landing on the moon.
This rate of progress continues to accelerate. The time between significant human advancements has decreased from thousands of years, to hundreds, to tens, to the present where we expect major advancements every year or two. Eventually that time will be compressed to months, and then days.
If this continues, then ultimately our inventions will be occurring so quickly that the time between them is mere seconds, or even milliseconds or nanoseconds. This is the "singularity", the time when the progress of human advancement reaches "essentially infinite". Theoretically, we will uncover all the secrets of the universe -- all possible technology -- in seconds.
Sound ridiculous? Each of our inventions is a stepping-stone that makes future inventions easier. A super-intelligent AI will make future inventions pretty damned easy, because it will do all of the work for us. It will figure out how to make an even smarter AI, and it will do it in record time -- and ultimately we'll have something that can solve every problem in infinitesimal time. Thus, progress will become infinitely fast.
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
I don't understand what you guys are complaining about. The first few lines tell you it's plausible, it's got 8 out of 10 stars, that it's got some content that might turn some people's heads and gets you wondering about how all the highlights could come about. Sounds like enough tidbits were given to know the jist of it as well as to warn some people.
Do you want your ideas about the book biased by a review?
Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative
I prefer the Metamorphosis of Optimus Prime.
Grade: F
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
"I think a skilled writer could invoke the same feelings of their loss of 'human-ess' without resorting to the use of these explicit passages."
Didn't you see the bit at the start? He wri^H^H^Htypes for Kuro5hin - home of the 17 year old white male who's read little more than other blog-sites (who was it who said `blog sites are like dreams - they're only interesting to the person they belong to`?), science fiction and fantasy.
Offensive to those under 21?
Geez, and I thought I was finally hardbroiled at 18...
I tried digging this up on Google, but all I find are heavy on the physics mumbo-jumbo. From what I was able to understand, a Cauchy surface is defined as 2 points in time that are intersected by a single timeline only once. The implication seems to be that there are non-Cauchy surfaces as well (points in time that are intersected by the same timeline more than once?). Of course, I could be way off base here...
How does this support your argument that time travel isn't "quite that simple"?
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
It's so awful that it drives you to drink. That's why you have to be over 21.
I've always enjoyed Greg Egan's's stories. They often deal with bizarre post-Singularity-type themes.
That's my review, and I hope i don't tank
anyones feelings, but gosh, what I managed to
wade through sssssucked my trembly member.
sample:
Caroline felt her loins ache with senile
potency: even at 5000000 years of cerebral age
she hadn't had enough ass..
"spank me hard contender", she rasped as the
virile young cyberdeathmonkey made whooping
noises and popped his cupped palms in his
armpits.
I started the first chapter - I got as far as where the rotting zombie shoved the dying child's face againt the naked chicks' naked chest one last time, and.. That was enough for me. Yuck.
nihilism
Pronunciation: 'nI-(h)&-"li-z&m, 'nE-
Function: noun
Etymology: German Nihilismus, from Latin nihil nothing -- more at NIL
Date: circa 1817
1 a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths
-- www.m-w.com
This describes me so well, it amazes me. I thought my feelings were unique but then my friends who had seen The Big Lewbowski started calling me nihilist, and I discovered a word to explain my personality and logic exactly!
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Obviously the /. editors are as unconcerned about quality in the book reviews they run as in the overall editorial quality of the site. Good to see such excellence balance.
Haven't read it yet? Try getting past a rotting zombie...ew, I'm not even going to say it.
*retch*
Wasn't there some cheesey 70's flick with Sean Connery where people all lived in bubbles to protect themselves from savage outsiders and a crystal or something with AI kept everyone alive indefinitely against their wishes and good ol' Connery manages to kill them all off (something about a floating head in the sky spewing guns...) I did actually see this didn't I....or is my brain tunneling electrons
We've secretely replaced the Enterprise's dilithium crystals with Folgers crystals. Lets see if they notice.
people over 18 are allowed to star in porn movies, be a prostitute in Nevada, vote and participate in wars. Is this book _so_ awful, that you have to be over 21?
Reading a book is a bit different from staring in porn movies, being a prostitute, and going to war.
(Though if you've starred in a porn movie, been a prostitute, and gone to war, maybe you should be writing a book.)
which chapter does the sex and violence start?
And here is my review:
The author has studied at the Hollywood "more blood, more guts" school of horror writing. After a few pages, one gets a feeling of numbness. Our heroine is skinned alive, raped by a zombie, shot and mutilated several times... each chapter seems to try to elevate the shock factor, but manages only to become tiresome, reflecting the heroine's own boredom with a world where the normal checks and balances of social life have been erased, and normality with it.
The basis of this novel is that a supercomputer of some kind has decided to digitise all life in the name of saving life. Fair enough, we've all wondered at some point "what if all life is digital and we just think we are alive". Many novelists have tried this route with varying success - see Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series.
What makes this story plot different is that the now-digital humans know that they are just imitations of life, and appear to take indecent pleasure in abusing that fact - killing themselves and others in the most unpleasant ways. Yes, possibly.
It is an interesting social question: what would happen if all the normal checks and balances of human life were removed? The "descent into barbarism" thesis has been tried before, in William Golding's propogandist "Lord of the Flies", which teachs young children that without the grace of adult supervision they would soon be impaling each other on sharpened sticks. In Metamorphosis, it seems, the supervising adult is quite happy to see the children impale each other.
So why does this novel leave an unpleasant taste in the mouth? It's not because of the graphic language - this just makes the reader bored. No, there is something fundamentally skewed with the thesis. Maybe it is this: human social controls are not something we dream to live without, unless we are sociopaths. They are the only measure by which we exist. This future world, in which anything goes, and no-one cares, is a distopia of massive proportions. Humanity has been reduced to something of less importance and less interest than the humans in Terminator or The Matrix. In this world, we have simply become immortal psychotic teenage males, and that is frankly horrible.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
"Last time I checked, people over 18 are allowed to star in porn movies, be a prostitute in Nevada, vote and participate in wars. Is this book _so_ awful, that you have to be over 21?"
Probably because you have to be drunk to appreciate the book. (I 'spose non-Americans under 21 are free to read it if they want.)
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
I didn't believe the warning. This is serious stuff. It makes Playboy look tame. Not an exageration.
The Sci-fi parts of this book were kind of interesting. The rest is obviously a sex fantasy, the kind that makes most people feel guilty for having, let alone writing about.
Chapter 1 follows Caroline, and is a bit of background with a lot of sensational edgy stuff. Most of the don't-read-this-kids stuff is here. That's in complete contrast to chapter 2, which is completely tame and wholly technical sci-fi, following AI researcher Lawrence. Here is introduced the big assumption of the book - new computer components are created that magically work many orders of magnitude faster than conventional stuff, mostly due to internal data transfer being instantaneous - not at the speed of light, but instantaneous. This is never really explained, other than referring to it as the 'Correlation Effect', or maybe 'Quantum Correlation Effect' (my brain is wired to discard buzzwords). In any case, the resultant AI uses this Correlation Effect to gain incredible inteligence and direct control over the entire universe, or something as non-sensical.
In the middle, uhm, supporting stuff happens. We get to see the beginning of Caroline's obsession with death and all things evil. Also Caroline undergoes a Hurculean task just to meet Lawrence to tell him off. I forget why I read through this far...
(***SPOILER WARNING***) (but nothing too serious/unexpected from chapter 1)
Caroline (who's usually naked, of course) shows up and meets Lawrence, in the second last chapter. Together they delve into the incredibly primitive decision making algorithm the AI uses, and it's revealed that tough decisions occasionally crash parts of the system(!?!). Then they produce a moral delema for the AI that convinces it into giving up control of the universe... Or something... What happens isn't exactly clear. All that I can say for sure is that the last chapter is not that expected, is slightly unsatisfying, and includes plenty of underage sex. (No joke. I wonder if new prudish anti child porn laws could strike this book down for the contents of the last chapter...)
Overall, this book has few new ideas, includes a weird ending, and has more offensive titilation that most entire magazine racks. I felt incredibly guilty for reading it. So, naturally, I liked it. 7/10.
The opinons expressed are those of the voices in the author's head and are not necessarily those of the author.
What really *is* this singularity business? Is this what we get when we finally get humanity to give up on the lie of religion?
A watered down version of the old faiths, with a big orange "New and Improved - Now with Science!" sticker on it?
...first time. Maybe even the second time too.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
..and it's really tasty. Nice and chewy.
It gives away too much of the story. Enough said.
The filesystem is the package manager
Even worse, _The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect_ is a great read. I caught it when localroger first posted to Kuro some weeks back. Fantastic!
- RLJ
As Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote (speaking specifically of nanotech but in the context of a paper on the Singularity):
The problem with people expounding their Utopian visions of a nanotech world is that their consequences aren't wild enough. Looking at stories of instantly healing wounds, or any material object being instantly available, doesn't give you the sense of looking into the future. It gives you the sense that you're looking into an unimaginative person's childhood fantasy of omnipotence, and that predisposes you to treat nanotechnology the same way. Worse, it attracts other people with unimaginative fantasies of omnipotence. There's no better way to turn into a bunch of parlor pinks, sipping coffee and planning the Revolution without actually doing anything.
(see the complete article which puts forth a good case for why the Singularity is inevitable and why we should try to hasten it)
It's like dogs speculating that if they were as smart as humans they could plant more trees to piss on.
The schematic also does not include any tunnel diodes (which figure in a key plot point).
That said, I read the story awhile back when it was first announced on K5, and thought it was very good. I would have liked to see some more alternate POV from people who did like The Change, but I realize that would compromise the moral of the story.
"Time is an abstract concept devised by carbon-based lifeforms to monitor their ongoing decay." - Thundercleese
Well, after reading all the kinky sex stuff, you will find yourself needing a good stiff drink.
I sounds like a rip off of Harlan Ellison's "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" and of "Colossus: The Forbin Project."
While I can understand where this poster might have gotten a bad (and IMO incorrect, as I disagree with certain conclusions the reviewer draws) impression of this book from the summary, but 'I haven't RTFA but am going to shoot down what I suspect it is anyway" doesn't seem that mod-worthy to me...
I agree with the generalized part of his opinion (and the points Bradbury makes in the linked article) but it doesn't exactly seem on-topic given that it's being applied to the book under review with only circumstantial evidence.
"Time is an abstract concept devised by carbon-based lifeforms to monitor their ongoing decay." - Thundercleese
The number of people using CSS-compliant browsers is far less than 99%. Just Netscape4 users alone still account for significantly more than 1%.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I am not gonna read any of the comments for fear of spoilers.
/. front page, I think this is one of the weaknesses of the weblog medium: it's not easy to have extended discussions.
I have only read a couple of "screenfuls" but it seems rather more well-written than I expected. I think I will read the whole thing(or a substantial subset).
I can sort of guess the plot: Computer(s) take over, leading to a world of disembodied intelligence similar to Kurzweil's "The Age of Spiritual Machines" and interesting consequences ensue, but I am interested in the specific way it unfolds.
Obviously by the time I finish reading this story will be long gone from
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
I read the story. Clicked the link on slashdot, started reading first few paragraphs and couldn't stop, I read the whole thing in one sitting. There were some parts that grossed me out because of the graphic nature, however they did not detract from story. This short story gives you a view of a world where you can do anything and never die. What would happen if you were immortal and you had any wish or desire fullfilled instantly? The story lays out how the world could come to be this way because of amazing advances in AI and how it goes out of control all because of three little rules. Great science fiction, recommended read, and it's free!!
ObPython: "I'm 37! I'm not old!"
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Could be the Singularity will never occur, so the AI never figures out time travel. Either that, or the Singularity occurs and proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that traveling to the past is impossible, and of course the 3rd (and least interesting) possibility: the Singularity determines that it shouldn't travel backwards in time because it doesn't think that'd be good for us or it.
One of these scenarios must be true.
Oh, and it's a relief to see that this isn't about that woman who went to NC and let herself be killed... I almost skipped this story because I thought it might be that.
Thanks.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I've only read what others have written (most rated 3+), and it seems that the SIAI keeps respawning people after they die. My problem with this is that it doesn't fit the 3 laws:
Dying is not harm. Being killed is, but dying is not. We need a better definition of harm.
And just how many kinds of harm are there? Physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual certainly. Are there others? Could a computer have any idea of how to stop these kinds of harm? How about an AI?
Then there's the balance between each of the harms: is the worse harm the person cutting their skin or the internal struggles which push them to cutting themselves? Suffering spiritual slings and arrows to follow professional goals?
From what's been posted here, it sounds like death is a sweet release from all the violence the insane characters unleash upon themselves and others.
8-PP
I have to admit the poster of "Booooring" is right that this is not the best author in the world. Spelling and grammer errors aren't uncommon, but I can look past that to try to enjoy the story, which so far is panning out in a logical manner, making valid conclusions.
One thing on the gore : it is pretty heavy and some might say unnecc. I think the author is using it to support the underlying idea that... this future is boring. Theres nothing to do, nothing else to invent, no way to die! X-treme sports would be come more extreme, and with serial killers getting a chance to fulfil their wishes on simulations... maybe not classy but a good view of the slum of a Singularity future.
The idea of the "Singularity" is largely the cultural effluvia of people indoctrinated in post-aboriginal-apocalypse millenarian cultures where the original inhabitants were forcibly displaced and eliminated within recent history. That is, American and Australia. To me, its absolutist finality indicates some deep-seated compensatory anxiety or insecurity that can most easily be resolved through a massive-yet-indeterminate process of transcendent redemption. It's a classic Waiting For the Messiah Complex (ala Bion).
Or I think Ken MacLeod put it more succinctly: Rapture For Nerds .
Da Blog
Why not that principal off Ferris Beuler's day off?
Eat at Joe's.
I hope you're not saying that not including the Zeroth law would make the book bad, as it was introduced much later. I, Robot for example does not even get into it.
In any event, I, Robot is certanly more simplistic then this work
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I think the major difference between Asimov's work and localroger's is that in Asimov's world the 3 laws were created by committee (in order to assuage people's fears that robot's would take over) and people were given lots of time to work things out on smarter and smarter robots.
But the fact that they worked out in Asimov's world doesn't mean that they would work out in the real world. Unlike the people in Asimov's books, the scientist in TMPI had simply read Asimov's books and thought they were cool. The intellects he was creating were never intended to do anything other then appear on a TV and speak with people. It gained god-like powers accidentally. The three laws were never intended to deal with.
One way to look at the story is as a sort of warning about taking sci-fi to literally. The three laws worked out in Asimov's books, but those books are not proof that they would work out in the end, as Dr. Lawrence eventualy discovered.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
A lot of times an invention just sort of 'pops' into your head. Having an ultra-intelligent isn't going to stop people from coming up with ideas. It may well be that the use the ultra-intelligent system to help them distil there ideas into usable things, but human inspiration will persist.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
NS 4 understands text-indent. It's CSS is pretty bad, though.
Not that it matters, a space between lines is just as comprehensible.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
0) Is the book any good?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I don't see why you couldn't program an IA to be curious...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
And that's why the reports of the demise of publishing are greatly exaggerated - they perform a valuable service that people are willing to pay good money for - namely, separating the chaff from the wheat.
Making the result of the service available in paper format (only) is just a mechanism for ensuring that they get paid for said service. Don't get distracted by the cost of printing or distribution.
What is the difference between a real song and a simulated song?
You are equating the singularity with a moment that technological progress occurs at an infinite rate.
The singularity referred to by Vinge happens well before that: when "they" outstrip "us". This is a singluarity from our current perspective because the events beyond that point will be driven by beings homo sapiens would not understand.
How do you guys prefer to read online books? I think my eyes and back would really be strained reading an entire novel off my monitor.
Printing it is not apealing to me because ink, paper, and printer wear make it probably no cheaper than just buying a book. Maybe i'll have to take advantage of school printers, hmmmm yeesssss!
First of all, this is clearly an immature effort. A decent effort, but immature. Second, the writer lets some of his biases come out in an all-too-obvious way--the tattoos, Death Jockey's, the shocking violence and drawn out sex--all of these reveal that the author is (in my oppinion) an adolescent or recently adolescent-male, who is into the punk scene and has played a lot of video games. Please don't misunderstand me; that could be me we're talking about here.
Next, I want to say what is good. The overall idea is pretty original, and very audacious; this is no mere Matrix rip-off. Second, the non-chronological ordering works, and very well. The second half of the book becomes chronological, but the first half adds some surprises and suspense through its arrangement. Third, for all that some people complain about the violence, sex, rape, incest, etc., most of the scenes did have some sort of point that was only really driven home because of the way the author presented it. Fourth, the ideas were challenging, and philosophically compelling.
The book showed much more promise in the beginning that it delivered in the end. While it was enjoyable, (though short), it left you feeling dissatisfied. I do have some specific complaints.
First, the three laws of robotics are quaint, but have no real place in a modern book. Asimov really used them (see "I, Robot") to show that a straightforward, simplistic moral system is not really so straightforward and simple. His stories focused on why the Three Laws had all kinds of interesting edge conditions that his robot's designers had never considered.
I also agree with many here that the violence, sex, overall depravity was excessive. It was simply distracting, and I had to quickly begin to skip over those parts. The author has too much narration; parts read like a textbook. Novels with characters should give those characters a chance to talk.
I earlier said that the book was too immature; a couple of other immature parts are the military and corporate exploitation angle. Of course these three men are inherently evil, and are really only cardboard. Fred, for all the attention he is given isn't really developed either. A really big failing is that AnneMarie isn't developed; that would have made a riveting book.
The climax of the book was also very lacking. Caroline's confrontation with Lawrence should have been something grand and terrible; instead, it was a Star Trek, "Quick Fix" ending. Afterwards, the characters don't seem to be affected by the "Fall", except to sometimes ruminate that they "sure could use some of those PI powers to light a fire." (Not a real quote.) Up until Chapter 8, there is no particular religious overtones (an interesting topic, to be sure), then we are suddenly in the Book of Genesis. I am reminded of the Twilight Zone episode, "OVER AND OUT." In fact, I think all of Chapter 8 could be an afterword, if not a sequel.
Overall, the author didn't do an outstanding job, but it's a very compelling idea, and its nothing a real editor could help him fix. Less narration, more developed (and more numerous) characters, some fat trimmed off, and some more time developing the world.
It's a good sign when the reader muses that the book is to short, and this was too short. The world of "The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect," is really what we paid to see, and we'd like to see more of it.
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Can I get an amen?
half the world lives in a goddam mud hut or under a piece of cardboard. There will never be a singularity.
Well, duh. This is a character who has deliberately edited all of the nonrelevant information out of her environment; it's not that I was staring at a piece of white paper, it's how the hell else are you supposed to represent an information-free environment?
Anyway, it sat on my hard drive for eight years largely because of little hurdles like this. The response from people who have actually bothered to read it has been overwhelmingly positive and gratifying. So it isn't for everybody; neither is anything else.
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Second, the writer lets some of his biases come out in an all-too-obvious way--the tattoos, Death Jockey's, the shocking violence and drawn out sex--all of these reveal that the author is (in my oppinion) an adolescent or recently adolescent-male, who is into the punk scene and has played a lot of video games.
Um, no. I was 32 when I wrote it, have no tattoos, totally square, and I also hate all video games more modern than Pac-Man and Battlezone. What it was was one of those things that come to you in a Vision and you feel compelled to record it. I have always been strongly ambivalent about this story. Interestingly, as I get older, it seems more tame and less extreme. A few days ago I turned 39, and it would still be sitting on my hard drive if a few folks at K5 hadn't twisted my arm and convinced me to put it online.
Overall I'm very glad I did. It's definitely not for everybody. It may not even be the best story it can be. But it is what it is, and that's all I am able to offer. Plenty of people have written to say that they enjoyed it, and that is certainly better than letting it sit on C: for another year.
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Hmmm. Maybe that's because it's ridiculous. Far be it from me to suggest that you were supposed to figure that out...
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Did you even read the story, asshole?
Something "intellectually challenging" for you would be a Dr. Seuss anthology (no, it's not about ants).
I love these jerks that come to Slashdot and comment on the comments to the book reviews, trying to sound superior, but haven't actually read a single line of the book.
So now you write as anonymous coward, and then ask the mods to mod your own messages up? Pathetic.
[off_topic]WTF? is this? Somebody sure went to a lot of trouble just to put a bunch of links to goatse.cx! This person must have less of a life than me![/off_topic]
[redundant]Jeeze! The reviewer really was a moron! A review really is supposed to contain some editorializing! I guess I'll have to read it and do a REAL review![/redundant]
Ignorance is bliss and I'm suicidal.
Outside of little things like writing this silly novel, my whole life devolves into me trying to get this message through to people who just don't want to hear it.
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Lots of terms used on /. don't have any explanatory material, as if the writer assumes everyone knows everything he/she does. Obviously this is not true. To make up for this, the conscientious writer links to Everything2's site for provides a brief definition.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
Spoilers of course....
Call me a crazy conservative, but for all the sex, both pre-crash and post-crash, there is no emotion to it. Lots of rape fantasies.
I suppose all artists are fundamentally defined by their basic conception of human nature. The author is constrained by obsession with desire, and the author appears to lack any imagination of an existence of infinite intellectual exploration. Although I have no doubts that many individuals would fall victim to the black hole of directly stimulated desire that was well-described, there would be many that would exist for the perpetual experience.
And dude, the sex/rape/murder was so over the top it was worthless for the story, even if it was trying to comment on similar races to the bottom for desires in modern culture. Glad I didn't pay for this.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
A reasonable extension of the fundamental laws, especially given the abstraction of humans as desirous "interfaces" by PI, would have prevented the vast majority of the really, really bad psychological experiences in this book, since it would start a personality on a descending whirlpool to insanity, as described in the later portions of the book. PI would have had plenty of analyzable data pre-Change to prevent these, particularly such disturbing rape/murder/torture experiences. But then again, that would have prevented the author from writing his rape/murder/torture fantasies.
Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
So I read this post (which, as others have said, is more a threadbare and unconvincing synopsis than a review) and I thought, what the hell, the book looks halfway interesting. I followed the link, and noticed that this was a free ebook in HTML format.
The teaser (written in the classic dust-jacket tradition) reads:
"Lawrence had ordained that Prime Intellect could not, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. But he had not realized how much harm his super-intelligent creation could perceive, or what kind of action might be necessary to prevent it.
Caroline has been pulled from her deathbed into a brave new immortal Paradise where she can have anything she wants, except the sense that her life has meaning.
Now these two souls are headed for a confrontation which will force them to weigh matters of life and death before a machine that can remake -- or destroy -- the entire Universe. "
I read a couple of pages.
"Hmmm.." I think, "I have a few hours this afternoon in which some light reading might be nice." So I put on a pot of coffee, download the ebook to my Palm, and start reading.
Overall the novel has a fairly bleak feel to it. I found the main characters to be morose or morbid much of the time, though still compelling and believable. The book does have the feel of something that should have been a short story bloated into the length of a short novel.
Prime Intellect is the name of an AI supercomputer which suddenly and unforseeably attains super-human intelligence and vast quantum-mechanical control of the physical universe at the same time. In so doing, it attains a kind of godhood wherein it cures all of mankind's ills (including death), puts and end to all war and crime (including suicide), and sets out to grant every man's every whim.
In telling the story of Caroline, post-Prime-Intellect, (a large chunk of the novel), the book delves at length into an immortal orgy of death, sex, and authentic torture that seem gratuitious or placed for shock value. The prose invokes the lurid atmosphere of a snuff film or the feeling of watching a car wreck in slow-motion, at once disgusted and enthralled with what your mind is processing. The dynamic, driven, and intense nature of Caroline's character keep the reader intrigued throughout all of this, but it seems to provoke only for the sake of being provocative. On the positive side, experiencing these empty diversions firsthand, one does strongly identify with the sheer pointlessness of Caroline's life after she (and others) have had the aforementioned immortality thrust upon them.
Of greater fascination to me were the characters of Lawrence (the engineer who created Prime Intellect) and Prime Intellect itself. After the machine's apotheosis, the question that the book truly seeks to explore here is what happens when the three laws of robotics are used to rule not simply a robot, but a god, of our own creation.
When Caroline goes hunting down the other two main characters, either to finally end it all, or to break the monotony of her endless sensate flailings, take your pick, she threatens to set off a conflict which could plunge the entire universe into chaos.
I liked this novel, and had a good time reading it. I wouldn't quite rank it alongside Asimov, but it I found it enjoyable, well worth the time spent downloading and reading it. If you have a few extra hours (and preferably a good PDA or ebook reader), I'd recommend grabbing a copy.
NetShadow
what are you talking about? what is everything2?
... I've started reading this book and it's pretty damned good. It is reminiscent of Varley or Gibson in terms of the possibilities that it presents for extending humanity, although the writing is a little weak.
I personally have spent a lot of time pondering the question "how do we become gods and what do we do when we get there," it's clear to me that Mr. Williams has also and I'm enjoying reading this particular manifestation of that idea.
And it wasn't so bad. He avoided a lot of cliches, except the 'computer is God' one. but he handled it well.
All in all a good first effort from a promising writer.
One thing - the computer was puzzled that giving everybody everything didn't make them happy. Observation of MMORPGS shows that what people really want is a world of scarcity but opportunity.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
I read some more of your stuff and I just wanted to thank you. The 4-part story about gambling was very eye-opening. I've been to Vegas a couple times on trade shows, and blew some money but never got into professionally counting. A few friends could, and consistently made money, but I never followed closely. Was a great read!
As for prophecies of doom, I completely agree: without the prophecy, it might come to pass. With the warning we can prepare against it. As a college kid I hated Luddites but now I am thankful that there are people who, without knowing or understanding what they're doing, are actually helping to guide technology's progress better.
Tell them that and it'll probably send them into fits. ;-)
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Well, I read it yesterday, and I really liked it. I was totally riveted. I loved the horiffic scenes, so shocking to me that I had to reread passages two or three times to fully grasp the horrific reality of the world of a superstar death jockey. It was filled with great little tidbits to cut`n'paste at your friends to fuck with them in emails, MUSHes , or chatting.
It's filled my brain with neat ideas for the entire weekend. I sent links to everyone I thought would care. Check it out. You might like it. If you don't, you can simply choose to stop reading it. No need to call for bans on this kinda stuff like some earlier posts hinted at.
I've only read chapters 1 and 2, but so far it is very thoughful and deals with issues that the mainstream media refuse to deal with, perhaps for igorance though (which is a good thing, as we can't have them running around screaming doomsday over our future). Death is death, regardless of how it is caused. The 1st Rule of Robotics will obviously have to be revised, as I view the aspect of forced enternity as Hell. Voluntary is another matter alotogether. So far, I am a bit disturbed that in this view of the future humans are under the benevolent dictatorship of a computer, and have the same mental abilities that we have today. The Singularity is supposed to augment and transform us, not turn us into peons of a computerized nanny state. Absolute moral relativity is another problem that has to be worked into the Rules of Robotics. We can't not punish crimimals, nor be prevented from terminating them. To do otherwise would to absolve them of all guilt and render their crimes non-crimes. The more I think about this, it seems that Prime Intellect (the uber-comp) is a Democrat of sorts, who won't let live or die on our own terms, and frees the criminals into society, who aren't guilty enough of anything to be punished. And what point is living in perpetuity if it's just a holodeck with no enhanced humanity? Humanity is forever static, never evolving, always existing, and now forever alone, that all other species have been terminated. This is the bleak, barren landscape of our future Hell if we are not careful.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
I don't know enough about the Singularity theory to debunk or argue anything written, so I don't want to get technical on the subject. However, I really enjoyed the text. Just when the darkness of this new 'Cyberspace' starts to depress you, it concludes in a very suprising way, reminiscent of Daniel Quinn and his lessons in Ishmael. An excellent way to depict the effect of the Singularity on the human psyche, even if it is only fictional.
Although if I decide to read it again, I'll probably try to locate a print copy... my 19" CRT took a sick pleasure in burning my retinas.
May the threads progress competently.
+1 funny
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
Basically, the singularity is the advancement of intelligence, not technology (though technology is the driver of that advancement).
I often wonder about this topic myself. The Singularity, emergence theory, Matrioshka brains, nanotech, and Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science" are *all* interelated, and should be studied and looked into at depth by those wishing to understand all of this more.
I was thinking something the other night - what if current life (as we perceive and know it) is actually the product of a Turing machine? In a way, I am restating (someone famous from the 18th or 19th century whom I can't remember the name of right now) the theory of how would we know if our reality is "real" - ie, the question of the Matrix? But deeper - not "AI has taken over" - but what if the universe is actually a running Turing Machine (as postulated by Wolfram in ANKOS)? Because a Turing machine is a state machine, if everything was running on this Turing machine, we could never know how fast that machine was running, because from state-to-state could be a long time, but because our "time" is based on the running of the machine, we could never perceive the "changes" between states. Could we? I don't know - but I was thinking about this, how such a thing could be running - but then, what is it running on - and who is running it? And why? Will it be turned off? Can we communicate back "outside" the "box" we are in? Can we prove we are not "inside" a box?
Exciting, and scary at the same time...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I know the discussion is specifically about augmenting intellectual efforts, but when taken in a broader context the concept you put forward actually describes the entire process of invention itself. The classic example is that it is impossible to smelt iron without techniques and tools developed for bronzeworking, but it hardly began or ends there. Anyone who's played Sid Meyers' Civilization or watched Burke's Connections on PBS knows how interwoven the fabric of invention is (imagine trying to manufacture vacuum tubes without assembly lines or refined metals or algebra). The fact that we're simply leveraging these gizmos called "computers" for that aim is just another step in the process.
As to keeping up with technology and using it wisely, I'm sure that every bronzeworker in Rome was scared spitless the first time they saw what an iron blade could do. They adapted, though, and so will we. You can argue if using those iron blades to spill so much blood was a wise use of the technology, but the Roman Empire also brought us stuff like sanitation and roads. All blessings are part curse and all curses are part blessing.
Again - This is not a slam against your comments. I liked your post. This is just a random observation while my PC is busy compiling...
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."