Slashdot Mirror
Sun To Use AMD Mobile Processor In Blade Servers
An anonymous reader writes "Looks like AMD is finally making some headway into supplying 1st tier business computer makers which the announcement that Sun will use their chips in upcoming blade servers. Apparently CNET can't help but speculate what this means for AMD's 64 bit Hammer."
...or is it just AMD?
Blarf.
This was on Ars Technica today. Check it out:m l
http://arstechnica.com/archive/news/1046147898.ht
A somewhat different interpretation of the meaning?
This is VERY interesting news since at this moment Sun is holding their Chip Conference where the future of Sparc is being discussed.
Now we can wait another 5 years for the new blade servers.
You mean this Linux?
would have been more pun-worthy to have hammer/sickle than hammer/blade.
my bad. mod me down.
After years of touting its own UltraSparc processors as sufficient for all manner of computing, Sun last year bowed to market realities and accepted general-purpose Intel-compatible computers into its server line.
I *think* I know how the market will respond to this as far as AMD is conccernd, I'll be keeping an eye on what this does/means for sun.
Cringely seems to think that Sun won't last long though, so will there be long-term benefit to AMD?
...they are also making an UltraSPARC server blade.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Sun wants 64 bit capability to be a differentiator for Solaris. So they will not rush to use AMD's 64 bit offerings.
OTOH who is going to try to make a go of AMD/64? For sure not any of the system vendors who have commited to IA64. That means no Dell, no IBM, no HP. So there is an opportunity for Sun.
Read Epic the first RPG novel.
Sun still talks out of both sides of it's mouth. In one breath they make claims that the UltraSPARC cpu is the most competitive CPU known to mankind, and in the next breath they're releasing non SPARC based systems, LX50 (Intel XEON) and AMD based blades.
Sun CPU engineers are way behind their competition. They're so far behind that their competition is litteraly lapping them in terms of price and performance.
Try and find any decent Sun server benchmarks that prove that their gear is competitive.
You can actually find benchmarks that one can make the direct comparison of an 8 way UltraSPARC 3 to a 4 way Intel Xeon MP! And the Intel based solution is faster and costs 50% or less.
Sun by virtue of their ego is becoming a boutique server/workstation vendor. Think SGI, this is likely Sun's future or worse if they don't start laying more staff off.
Businesses are realizing this, and this is why Sun is taking such a beating.
Solaris is losing ground and purpose every day to Linux. The Ultraspac processor is dieing as well. Java is plauged IMO by terrible VMs, while C# and other proprietary languages are coming out/gaining ground.
I think Sun SERIOUSLY needs to reconsider its place in the market and drop products/get direction. I think a serious partnership with oracle is in order, or putting more behind Java.
looks like sun is going for the underdog in both the os and chip markets with a linux/amd combo. could this be in response to some beliefs that sun is fading? obviously this is good for amd and linux, but what if sun really does go away? will people blame amd hw and/or linux sw?
USE='clever' emerge -u sig
Is it just me, or is 64-bit computing, the hammer, and AMD getting a lot of press for the past few days? I wonder if this is the start of a big media blitz.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Now we just need for linux to get good support for the 64-bit addressable memory (read: more than 4 gigs).
:Wq
Not an editor command: Wq
In any event, the Sun blades aren't in direct competition with commercial Linux offerings (yet), so I don't see how much this will help them. The inclusion of AMD CPUs will only marginally improve costs on the Blades.
Well, many researchers foretold Sun slowly to move to AMD as they enter the x86 market. You would expect that their next move will be low cost (low for Sun) Linux offerings with AMD chips to compete with IBM's $4,000 offerings.
Am I the only one that fails to see the logic here? Since when has solaris been less expensive? On hardware terms too, I would have thought linux is more suited to run on the lower-end boxes. Is this desperation from Sun we're seeing?
I just pieced together an AMD system for myself, an XP2400+, an Asus A7N8X Deluxe, 1Gb DDR333, and a 120Gb HDD. I'd like to see any current Sun workstation beat this combo considering I have OpenGL/Linux well in hand.
If you can't beat 'em... buy their shit and sell it as your own!
I've been watching Ebay for deals on Sun equipment and have never seen something that seems like a good deal. Like I might consider paying $100 for an Ultra10, but thats about it. If they go more mainstream and were to make some kick-ass motherboards for AMD systems they could probably go a long ways. Sun motherboards have mega-bandwidth which is exactly what AMD processors could use. Sun is also noted for scalability; i.e. add a second processor and your system will be nearly twice as fast.
This should be really interesting...
Clickety Click
I was just configuring Debian on a E450 dev box to bring our servers more in line with our production servers.
What does this mean for Sun? No one knows for sure. Is it the beginning of the end or a stop gap measure until their new processors come out in 2004. The ones all the analysts are so hyper over, not the USIV or USV but the Afara procs.
But what does this mean for AMD? Now every enterprise can ask the question, why not go with AMD? Sun uses their procs... why shouldn't we use them also.
This is just good news for AMD and may be a kick in the groin for Intel to wake up to the 64 bit to the desktop question.
Your mom always said, a PB&J is better than nothing, and God is nothing, is a PB&J better than God?
You have to build the Pyramids wonder first, or else have a really advanced Democracy. Usually I change my Democracy to Communism right before I instigate global warfare to keep my workers from rioting. Even then I kind of feel guilty about it...
Clickety Click
... that's as long as I've been using it. I don't know the actual time frame when 64-bit support appeared in Linux kernel, but I have read that Linux was the first OS to run on UltraSPARC in 64 bit mode, putting Sun to shame.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Sun announced today that they will alter their long standing slogan "THE NETWORK IS THE COMPUTER tm"...
To: "The TREK NOW is the CUT ME PRO tm"
~ that is all...move along.
> Sun last year bowed to market realities and accepted general-purpose Intel-compatible computers into its server line. Its first model, the LX50, uses Intel processors.
What about their Cobalt line of RaQ servers. Seems to me they "bowed to market realities" when they acquired Cobalt Systems back in 2000. The LX50 is just a Cobalt RaQ with a faster processor.
I think Cobalt servers make great low-end web servers, and they even run Sun's Brand of Linux (as does the LX50), which I believe is based on RedHat 7.2 (which they also acquired from Cobalt Systems).
Honestly, I don't even know why that is funny here. I really don't think BSD is dead, and I have nothing against it . . . Slashdot is just really starting to effect me in strange ways.
.
.
For instance, the other day I was making a little presentation to my boss and suddenly used the:
1.
2. . .
3. Profit!!
Step list . .
slashdot is going to get me unemployed and single.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
You can't have more than 4 gigs on x86 architecture. It's 32 bit, so it's limited to 4 gigs. I know, I know, Intel has some kind of 36-bit addressing hack, but it's just that -- a hack, like the XMS/EMS memory of the olde DOS days. It's either that or AMD's x86-64 which isn't out yet, but Linux is running quite nicely on the pre-release models. A few months ago, AMD even demoed x86-64 version of SuSE.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Yes, I agree with you about the heat!
Wait, no I don't. Maybe that's because they are using mobile processors with low wattage!
Dooh! Dang they're onto me. Blow up the planet.
Clickety Click
I've had a number of discussions with folks about this over the last few years.
1) Sun can still afford it.
2) They gain instant credibility in the x86 market.
3) AMD gains credibility in the enterprise (luring really big enterprise customers with real service)
4) Sun gets 2 of the leading 64-bit processor platforms, plus some control over the Windows hardware platform.
5) Sun gets to own their chip manufacturer (rather than rely on stinky TI and Fujitsu for the Sparc line).
6) Sun can control the cost of its Linux platform.
Do, it Sun. . . you know you want to. . . buy them.
They'd use AMDs to compete aggressively with IA64 offerings. As far as I'm concerned, this is Sun's only pathway to survival. Linux is killing their lowend Unix business. They should embrace Hammers and push the crap out of Linux boxes. I personally think they should put out Windows boxes as well but that's uncool to say here.
> ... they are probably preparing for the day when Solaris will be phased out.
They are in business, not gambling, so yes, they need to think about what if, but Solaris is still the core of Sun (like Solaris is the core of N1).
> Wow -- Sun is boosting Linux in a BIG way now.
Why not? Though they were cutting work force dramatically, they are still one of the biggest players in server market and if you look back for the last 10 years, they have achieved quite a lot. 10 years ago, they were nowhere. They were pretty interesting 5 years ago, and now they are competing with players like IBM with head to head, toe to toe. They don't have a big share in low end server market, so they push Linux. Since they built their business around Solaris (Unix), their engineers can easily shift to Linux; training cost is insignificant. So why not?
The negative shift from dot com bubble was so dramatic that, many seem to believe that Sun is turning around the direction that they are going, but I (and probably many other) don't think so. They are in server business, and they are investing a lot there. They established themselves as one of the biggest players in high end server market, so now they are targeting low end as well. While they pursue the whole server market, they push, what they call, N1.
The point is "What's so surprising? What's so unpredictable?"
Because I doubt M$ would honor the 64 bit windows deal if Sun purchased AMD or maybe Sun could use that to pursue more legal manuvering.
XP2400+, an Asus A7N8X Deluxe, 1Gb DDR333, and a 120Gb HDD. I'd like to see any current Sun workstation beat this combo
I guess it all depends on what your terms are. Three years ago at work I was working with a simulation that took about 5GB of ram to run (1 process). All of the 2 year old Sun workstations we have now could run this. Sun had equipment, what, 7 or 8 years ago that could. Your PC still can't.
Your PC could no doubt render a beautify, a kick-ass Quake 3 scene. But it would probably suck wind trying to do certain types of CAD displays. It can be very different 3D work from what a PC graphics card is good at (textures & shading). Of course, for what its worth, Sun's new XVR-4000 graphics card can take up to 1GB of memory!
Your PC will be a lot cheaper, and kick-butt. However there are some things a Sun could do that it just couldn't, or would do poorly.
I've been watching Ebay for deals on Sun equipment and have never seen something that seems like a good deal.
It all depends what you are looking for.
Sun has used AMD CPU's before, although not in the primetime in their servers. They did use them in the SunPCi cards for workstations. I still have one.
The reason that Sun used AMD (the K6-2, I believe) instead of a Pentium, like they did with the SunPCi 2, is that at the time it made more sense price-wise. I see no difference here.
Contrary to popular belief, life is not a bitch. It is far far worse.
Did you? You 'get it' when you get that Sun is still trying to figure out what is what... :)
"Looks like AMD is finally making some headway into supplying 1st tier business computer makers which the announcement that Sun will... They mean "with the announcement" not "which the announcement"
Repeal the DMCA!
that will produce enough heat to be worthy of its namesake.
my pet machine
Look at all the non-reading fools posting...
These are the notebook AMD XP-M CPU's.
That means low power and heat.
It also means no 64bit support.
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
> [...] Notice that Sun doesn't even make the list. Not even their super-fantabulous E15K!
The Sparc architecture is an open standard. Fujitsu has a long tradition of taking it to the max, though at a steep price.
This is similar to the x86 area. The availability of top-notch systems from IBM or HP does not hurt Dell, it helps them. Customers like to know that there is an enhancement to their el-cheapo equipment. If they feel like solving problems by money, they can.
Post tenebras lux. Post fenestras tux.
Go here for a really good CPU comparison.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
I'm looking into buying a server for running an EJB container. What options do I have?
1) Sun SPARC. Buy a Fire 280R for 7999$
2) IBM x86. Netfinity XSERIES 305 for about 1500$ with 2.67GHz P4.
Ok, the IBM one don't have Fibre Channel hard disks, but so what? I don't need them. For running Java, x86 is THE choice. Sun will still be the choice for running Oracle, but for how long?
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Have you seen ONE comment posted that didn't complain about heat, how their XP is faster than a Sparc or how x86-64 will kick Itaniums ass?
If you don't care about the FACTS, but only the speculation, go read the tabloids.
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
Err, they're using 1.2GHz AthlonXP-M processors. Those chips have a maximum power consumption of somewhere on the order of 25W, plus they have relatively advanced power saving features which can reduce power consumption dramatically when not going full-out. For comparison, Intel's P4-M processors at 1.6GHz use 30W of power or more and their "power saving" features (SpeedStep) is quite poor.
:> )
I'd actually guess that the main reason why Sun chose AMD over Intel is largely due to the heat issue and the fact that AMD's chips run cooler (despite what the uniformed masses at Slashdot might have us beleive
1) commoditize your hardware! (Intel/AMD x86 chips)
2) commoditize your software! (Linux, free software)
3) $$$!!!!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Moderate this thread or comment on it....hmmmm
I had to comment because I saw quite a few posts on the ability of Sun's slaes staff to reduce you too feeling like a non-human, loser who isn't worthy of their products because you are only spending 25, 50 or 75K worth of gear.
I work for an MSP and we do a lot of business with Sun (although we have sold more Dell/Linux solutions that Sun Solaris at the 3:1 ratio in the last 9 months). I am really tired of dealing with them. I even get attitude fromt heir teir 1 support! When a tier 1 peon asks me if I am sure that the drive is broken 3 times, and then tells me to get someone else to check it I get very angry and feel like cramming that drive down his stupid throat!
I mean really....I was supporting this stuff since before he was even a twinkle in his father's eyes. Am I not a repeat and well paying customer? Did we not spend several million dollars with Sun in the past? Do they not want to continue this relationship? I ask my sales rep these questions everytime I call....and he promptly hangs up on me.....BASTARDS!
"Laugh, and the whole world laughs with you. Cry, and they still think its funny." - Mr. Boffo
it's a Flametongue!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Maybe you should read this for some hints as to what might be in store for UltraSPARC in the future. Suddenly it doesn't look as bleak as the nay-sayers would have us believe.
Stick Men
Sun To Use AMD Mobile Processor In Blade Servers
blade + mobile CPU + wheels + Handle + Rent-a-thug = new age of mobile power computing.
Coming soon: Rent-a-Render-Farm, feel the need for some 3d imagery while camping or at the mall?