Cowboy Bebop Movie comes to the States

birdman666 writes "According to the movie site the movie of the popular anime Cowboy Bebop has finally been set to release in the states in a handful of cities including LA, NY, SF, Seattle and others on April 4. It features all the same voice actors as the Cartoon Network series and is big news for all those Bebop fans out there. As a note the Japanese title of the film was 'Cowboy Bebop: Knockin On Heaven's Door', but has been changed simply to 'Cowboy Bebop: The Movie' for the states." We had a note about the American premiere last summer, but now it's finally open for general admission.

Comments

Heh

[Entropy248]

I thought that said CowboyNeil movie and I got all excited... I love p0rn so much!

Title Changes

[svvampy]

Why do the yanks always seem to want to change the titles of foreign movies?

Mad Max is soooo much better than road weanie and what was the deal with the "Sorceror's Stone"?

Although I had heard it said that the Americans don't understand/acknowledge philosophy so that is why the change was necessary

Re:Title Changes

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should change your post rating to (Score:-1 Uneducated).

Re:Title Changes

[Tailhook]

Eh... this isn't a "yank" movie is it? Are you certain yanks are responsible for the change?

Re:Title Changes

[Student_Tech]

Remember the bit about what Cartoon Network had to deal with for Cowboy Bebop (it was either that or Outlaw Star) when they missed a Star of David on a slot machine in one episode, they had parents threating to sue. (/. article mentioning that editing here). I think it is the general, oh its a cartoon its good/ok for kids idea.
But yeah, if "Knocking on Heaven's Gate" had been something different it might have been left alone.

Re:Title Changes

[Chemical]

From what I understand the change was due to legal issues regarding the "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" subtitle. Aparently Bob Dylan didn't like one of his song names being used in an anime title. And of course he owns that phrase, so no one else may use it without his express written consent (implied oral consent isn't good enough).

Of course this is second hand info. Don't know if it's really true.

Re:Title Changes

[Microlith]

They changed it out of fear of being sued by whomever owns the copyright to the song "Knocking on Heaven's Door"

Sorry if I can't say who does, as while I can think of the song I can't think of the artist.

(Hell the original title was which comes across as just "Heaven's Door" but the "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" was an official subtitle).

Re:Title Changes

[Microlith]

Hey Malda!

Are you just being an ass now and having the /. engine strip out all non-english text?

I wrote "tengoku no tobira" using mozilla in the previous post. It should have come out as standard HTML entities, but lo-and-behold, they're GONE?

The following should be a line of kanji: that reads "otanjoubi ha rainen"

If that's gone, then taco needs to fix /.

Re:Title Changes

[GrimSean]

Why do the yanks always seem to want to change the titles of foreign movies?

Mad Max is soooo much better than road weanie and what was the deal with the "Sorceror's Stone"?

I believe that they went with Cowboy Bebop: The Movie rather than Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door so as to avoid any legal issues with Bob Dylan due to his famous song Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

As to the Sorceror's Stone, that was done because the American publisher felt that it sounded more "Magic-like" than Philosopher's Stone.

Re:Title Changes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Why do the yanks always seem to want to change the titles of foreign movies? "

Uh, we didn't have a say in it. Why don't you talk to the Japanese Movie Studio that's prepping it for release?

I mean seriously, did you think we took a vote on it or something? Maybe an American Idol style voting system? It's somebody's perception of us 'yanks', not our preference.

Re:Title Changes

[MisterEGecko]

The Harry Potter movie & book were changed from "The Philosopher's Stone" to "The Sorcerer's Stone" because publishing execs thought that American kids are to fat, stupid, and apathetic to understand the allusion to the history of alchemy in the Philosopher's Stone... None of the young kids I know knew what it was, except for my British prof's kid. Yet that could be a factor of his being the son of a professor... Take your pick.

Re:Title Changes

[fenix down]

Well, technically, it's probably closer to 30% of the country voted for somebody other than Bush. Which puts Bush's supporters at maybe 25%. Clearly, the majority here is the lazy bastards, or, charitably, those of us that felt the lot were a bunch of assclowns. Either way, over 70% of the country didn't vote for Bush. Mmmm. Delicious, delicious popular mandate.

Re:Title Changes

[eXtro]

If slashdot rips out non-english text wouldn't that rip out about 75% of any post CmdrTaco makes?

Re:Title Changes

[Graspee_Leemoor]

The philosopher's stone can turn base metals into gold, or 'green' as in "I have created a nugget of purest green!".

On the whole I think that 'philosopher' sounds less likely to enrage fundamentalists than 'sorcerer'. I mean 'sorcerer' sounds a lot more dodgy than 'wizard'.

Maybe they should have called it 'Harry Potter and the Stone of the Alternative but Acceptable Religion'.

graspee

Re:Title Changes

[Photon Ghoul]

Way off-topic....

I only slightly know what I'm talking about here but.... the "Philosopher's Stone" is indeed something from alchemical lore. On the surface the Stone was the element the alchemists were looking for that would turn metals into gold. Underlying this is the basic philosophy that there is one 'thing' to discover which would unlock the secret to 'everything'. I'm not sure if alchemists were searching for that One True Thing, but modern-day occultists have used it to express some mystical self-discovering journey or something.

This would definitely rile any fundamentalists that understood, even just a little bit, what this might imply. Anything that might hint that humanity doesn't need their old god and is used as the basis for a movie targeted at children would see protests, boycotts, etc. It's not surprising that movie execs opted to change it. That's assuming they changed it for that reason - could just be that Sorcerer sounds much cooler than Philosopher.

Re:Title Changes

[Gropo]

Why do the yanks always seem to want to change the titles of foreign movies?

That's rich... Just last night I was flipping through the Spanish channels in the UHF range and caught a spot for an upcoming airing of The Frisco Kid... What had they renamed it?

El Rabino y el Pistolero!!!

Re:Title Changes

[Pxtl]

Yeah - here in Canada Harry Potter was imported as "the Philosopher's Stone" - we don't like movie companies insulting our intelligence.

Re:Title Changes

[Mr. No Skills]

Big deal. Presidents in the US never get a majority of the vote if you're going to count the no shows who don't care or don't want any of them.

If you like your leaders to get 100% of the vote Iraq seems to accomplish this.

Re:Title Changes

[kirkjobsluder]

Does it matter when she spends an entire page of expository dialog explaining what the stone is?

Re:Title Changes

[Myrke]

And to think we could've had Axl Rose bringing us in hard rock style... the headbanging anime fans would've been thrilled. Ah well...

Re:Title Changes

[Ninja Master Gara]

Blame marketing.

Marketing says: "Philosopher's Stone means nothing to target audience, call it "SORCERERS Stone", that makes it magic."

or

""Leon: The Professional" is too much for target audience to read, call it "The Professional". Oh and cut out all that inuendo, we'll get sued."

For these and other opinions some guy is paid 6 figures.

Re:Title Changes

[Zach Fine]

Knowledge of the vagaries of alchemy is not the benchmark by which reasonable people judge the intellectual capacity of kids. Maybe publishing execs thought that American kids were too smart to waste their time memorizing allusions to medieval science. Not that any knowledge is a bad thing, but is there a point to looking down on anyone for ignorance what is to them a useless bit of trivia.

My childrens' book, George Costanza's Yo No Bi Project hasn't been selling all that well in Antarctica. Obviously those damn Antarcticans are just too stupid, lazy, and drunk to ever understand my brilliant allusion to concepts concerning Japanese art. Oh well, at least the kids in [name of country] can recite the names of all the Roman Emperors in order. Priorities priorities.

Re:Title Changes

[sparrow_hawk]

They don't *currently*, but they did eighty years ago. The binding on my history book is currently being repaired or I could give you exact figures, but IIRC something like 80% of eligible voters cast their ballots in the Teens and Twenties. *That*, my friends, is a Mandate. What our current President has (and what pretty much every president since FDR has had) is a kind-of sort-of vote of confidence from the people he pays the most. [cynicism=off]

The only thing better than anime

[Anonymous Coward]

Is a crazy 70 year old Japanese professor that only wears Anime T-shirts.

Re:The only thing better than anime

[Intocabile]

That guy rules, if only my EE profs were as cool.

butterflys

[OwlofCreamCheese]

I see the butterflys....

Observation

[Copperhead]

I went to the premire in New York last summer, and I was looking forward to having a good time with all the other cool American Anime fans.

Who invited all the geeks?

An honest question

[dj_whitebread]

I know this is going to get marked flamebait, but I have to ask...

What is it that people see in anime? I am actually curious. I have watched several different things, and I have thouroughly enjoyed many, but I have never understood the obsession.

So, what are the qualities that anime fans think raise it up as a great thing?

Re:An honest question

[DiracFeynman]

Like with everything else, 90% of anime is horrible.

Re:An honest question

[Thomas M Hughes]

So, what are the qualities that anime fans think raise it up as a great thing?

Nothing at all. It is just another of many mediums from which you can tell a story, just like a novel, the theatre, or live action films. Each has their own benefits and weaknesses.

The strength of anime is that it allows the creative force complete control over the visual environment, without concern for if its possible to do in terms of special effects or in terms of real life freedom. Thus, the storyteller gets the ultimate freedom to express his or her ideas. That is what makes Anime unique in contrast to other mediums.

But, its important to remember that it is still a medium, just like other mediums. As such it has its limitations.

Re:An honest question

[2nd Post!]

Entertainment?

The same thing you see in every other media.

Anime is just a medium, like TV or commercials or infomercials or live action movies or print or comic.

Each medium has their own history and culture, so it would stand to reason that anime too has its own subculture. It is this subculture that most fans are attracted to, the expectations built up from watching previous anime is carried over when watching new anime.

Same as any other genre: American music, Marvel comics, Car commercials.

And of course, anime itself can be divided into smaller genres, just like American Music, Marvel Comics, or Car commercials.

Re:An honest question

[Uller-RM]

Oh, it's not all anime. A great deal of it sucks ass (ex: DBZ, Hamtaro, Pokemon, etc.) -- and if you think that's true in the US, you should see all the loads of total crap that's released in Japan and never makes it here because the sheer stench of it tips off the customs officials.

What makes good anime? Consistent, three-dimensional -- as in deep, not as in their look -- characters with back stories and patterns that viewers can relate and get attached to. A consistent art style. (Seizure robots do not apply.) Compelling writing, with humor where appropriate -- whether that's slapstick humor or the more darker variety. Believable lines, and convincing voice actors. In other words, the exact same things that make good film.

Cowboy Bebop is considered one of the heights of anime, for all of the above. Other good examples of anime (IMO) would be Trigun, Rah'Xephon, Shinseiki (Neon Genesis) Evangelion, and the recent Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. If you're the type that likes relationship dramas, Love Hina is pretty well known and liked. There's shows that run the line between relationships and action, like Martian Successor Nadesico. There's also the full-length movie variety of anime, of which the most famous are Akira and Ghost in the Shell.

*shrug* There's good and bad anime, just like there's good and bad films and good and bad TV -- favorites will vary with a person's taste, but there are consistent things you can critique on.

Re:An honest question

[Kirsha]

In one phrase:

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Re:An honest question

[a8f11t18]

I like it because it's a great storytelling medium. As you cannot rely too much on motion as in live action, you have
to compensate for that by putting more work into making
more interesting characters and story. Also, as the world
is truly yours to shape in whatever form you wish in
animation, it's often completely "out of this world".. that
has its appeal, considering such entertainment is supposed
to be escapist fantasies.

Other factors.. the japanese culture is cool.. it's familiar in some ways because of the influence from the west, but yet it's also very distinguished like an unique mixture of old and new. Some like the language too.

Oh, one more thing.. for many it also holds "art potential", whether we're talking simple or advanced animation design.. or as I like to say.. I could take professional grade camera equipment and film a scene just the way michael mann or whatever did.. but i cannot even draw a minute's worth of simple cartoons that DON'T look like complete sh**.

Re:An honest question

[Anonvmous Coward]

"What is it that people see in anime? "

In this case, it's that Cowboy Bebop is a damn good show. It's earned its rep without relying too heavily on being anime.

As for the attraction to it, I honestly can't say for sure. I do know that it's very imaginative visually and very dramatic, unlike American cartoons which are usually too cutesy.

To be fair, though, there's lots of anime that sucks. On the flip side, though, at least there's the visual interest to it. Ghost in a Shell was BORING but it had some damn cool things to look at.

I guess you could say it's thee sci-fi version of Britney Spheres.

Re:An honest question

[Syncdata]

Anime, on the whole has one major plus for me, which is not seen in American Cartooning. A concentration on what makes cartoons visually interesting, as opposed to attempting to make a cartoon similar to live action.
Why bother animating an entire scene poorly all around, when you can have aspects in a scene the eye is naturally drawn to animated well?
Putting out a cartoon takes a lot of time, and rather than spending your resources equally across the entire length of your show, why not concentrate them where they can be put to the best use? Animation has come a long way, but lip synching is still terrible, so why not spend less time on the close up, and spend more on the wide shot action scene? This is what anime does well, which US cartoons do not.
If you want to see what I mean, check out Cowboy bebob episode 1, and witness one of the greatest hand to hand fighting moments in any cartoon

Re:An honest question

[JohnFluxx]

Personally I like it because the _story_ in general is a hell of a lot better than hollywood crap.

I go and watch hollywood films once a week at the cinema, and love the action etc. But sometimes you need to watch something with a bit more bite.
For that there is anime.

Of course, you get the occasional good holywood film, and the 'bad' anime. (good and bad defined in as above)

Re:An honest question

[Anonymous Coward]

Two words: tentacle porn!

Re:An honest question

[Bodhidharma]

To be fair, though, there's lots of anime that sucks. On the flip side, though, at least there's the visual interest to it. Ghost in a Shell was BORING but it had some damn cool things to look at.

I agree there's a whole spectrum of quality in the genre. However, I think calling Ghost in the Shell boring is unfair. Admittedly it was slower paced than a lot of anime. It did explore some interesting ideas and had pretty well developed characters. The action scenes, though spaced apart, were good.

Maybe it's a matter of taste. I thought X was appropriately named because it was anime "porn". There was a ton of action but it didn't really make much sense.

Just so I don't get modded down for going too far off topic, Cowboy Bebop rules! :)

Re:An honest question

[Golias]

The strength of anime is that it allows the creative force complete control over the visual environment, without concern for if its possible to do in terms of special effects or in terms of real life freedom. Thus, the storyteller gets the ultimate freedom to express his or her ideas. That is what makes Anime unique in contrast to other mediums.

Actually, that's not completely true. If you watch the credits of any good anime, it's pretty easy to see that it actually takes a much bigger crew to do a cartoon well than to shoot with film. You don't even save much on cast, because you still need to hire voice actors.

What makes anime a (slightly) more "free" medium is that it is quite a bit cheaper, which allows producers to take bigger chances on rolling with a creative person's vision. The idea that a single Manga artist ever really has complete control of their vision during the production of something like Cowboy Bebop is a bit of a myth, though. Compromises were made, even if you were never told about them in a DVD commentary track the way you are with a lot of Hollywood films these days.

Re:An honest question

[Joe Tie.]

So, what are the qualities that anime fans think raise it up as a great thing?

Japan in general seems to have a greater tolerance for creativity and continuity in sci-fi than most of the English speaking public. It's nice being able to watch a series I like with no fears that it'll be canceled for a zaney reality show because too many of the viewers missed having the big red reset button pushed after each episode. I also like animated sci-fi in general more than live action, if the latter is going to resort to nose putty aliens. For some reason an animated alien dosn't jar my suspension of disbelief as much as a cheap forehead alien of the night.

That said, I also should say that I don't like the idea of generalising to such a high degree. I own quite a few anime series, but I don't consider myself an "anime fan" any more than I consider myself a "American TV fan". Both catagories are so broad as to make any statement like that pretty much meaningless. I'm a fan of science fiction stories which have interesting characters and a progressive storyline, and I really don't much care what video medium or country delivers them to me.

Re:An honest question

[Student_Tech]

I wanna watch a cartoon that is aimed at a more mature (high school+) audience. Most US cartoons I can think of don't fall into that catogory. Simpsons, Futurama are two I like to watch as well as Daria, oh and South Park (I think that is still considered animated). Beyond that there isn't much I enjoy that is recent (Ok, lemme be picky, I liked Dexter's Lab at one point but I aged a few years looked at it and started asking questions and thinking. How are the parents ignoring all the stuff that happens? )
The anime is interesting and I enjoy watching it as they do try and tackle some more complex themes and often times it has a bit more belivable story line and it does a better job of answering questions I might have. Cowboy Bebop(the series) for example looks more into the past of the characters during the series and you see something believable(for the most part) and it gives the viewer a way to associate with the characters.

What qualities do I use to think if it is good? If it is interesting to me its good. If it is funny thats a plus. If it is stupid/dumb I might avoid it but if I come across an episode or 2 I'll watch and see how it is presented, maybe change my mind. It is more personal preference than anything else.

Re:An honest question

[Op911]

Please don't forget (for people who don't like giant battling robots), Great Teacher Onizuka , an intelligent comedy about a young Japanese schoolteacher and his antics to teach his class of misfits some life lessons, or anything by Studio Ghibli, such as the film recently nominated for the Academy Awards, Spirited Away , and its predecessors, such as Princess Mononoke and the like. (Also devoid of giant battling robots, or anime pr0n) More info on Studio Ghibli stuff at this excellent fan news website

Re:An honest question

[Intocabile]

Just like any other hobby. I why do car guys go to extremes? Might be because they enjoy it... naw. It has always been the stories personally. Since most anime has its roots in Manga (japanese comics) they usually have a good story. There are some of course that are your basic run of the mill crap, but most have some merit. I also find anime to be more of an art form then cartoons meant for a North American market since it's not bounded by stereotypes. Not to mention how many different types of anime there are, find a type you enjoy and you'll never run out of shows to watch. In any case if you never find an anime series that does it for you I hope you don't dismiss the artform, some anime movies are the greatest ever made and Cowboy Bebop: The Movie is among them. Other Greats: Grave off the Fireflies, Akira, Princess Mononoke, My Neighbour Totoro, Porco Rosso, Spirited Away(well anything studio ghibli realy), Ghost in the Shell

Re:An honest question

[Uller-RM]

GTO is oustanding, altho the manga is better IMHO. Also let us not forget Serial Experiments: Lain, or any of the other of their ilk. I agree with the parent on Spirited Away and Mononoke.

*grinning at the giant battling robots comments* I dunno, Rah'Xephon and NGE are the only mecha shows I've liked. Full Metal Panic, GunParade March, the whole Robotech series, etc. just never hooked me. I guess it's the mysticism bent that both those shows have, while the others are more of an extension on modern technology.

I'm looking forward to Behind the Clouds right now -- a typical separated-loves story in an alternate future where Japan was conquered and divided after WW2.

Kiddy Grade (Gainax) has been pretty interesting too.

Re:An honest question

[gad_zuki!]

>What is it that people see in anime?

I think its just a reliable source for tons of science fiction. Wherever science fiction goes geeks are sure to follow.

I don't think its a big coincedence that the most popular titles are pretty much sci-fi or use a sci-fi setting.

Re:An honest question

[fenix down]

The commentary disk on Metropolis was pretty good in that respect. Most of what the top guys talk about is how Ozuma's going to rise from the grave and haunt them for what they did to his story.

Anyway, you kind of missed the point. Yes, manga-anime adaptations have just as many comprimises as book-movie ones. (actually, specifically here, CB was an anime originally, so there was no mangaka to get screwed) He was talking about technical limitations, though. It's why George Lucas wet his panties over CGI, becuase it opens up the kind of freedom you get in animation for live action directors.

Re:An honest question

[gl4ss]

in other words what makes good series or a movie makes good anime.

i've come to conclusion that because there is just so freaking much anime there's also good anime, just like hollywood does make some good movies..

beginning titles on cowboy bepop-knocking on heavens door are extremely stylistic and good looking in my opinion too(coupled with excellent music)..

Re:An honest question

[fenix down]

Intelligent? Onizuka? You must have been watching the other GTO. The one that didn't have... Onizuka in it. Fucking hilarious, yes. Intelligent, no.

By the way, find some of the live action Onizuka stuff some time. It's a live cartoon. Like Jim Carrey, only adorable instead of infuriating. The movie has a Canada-themed ammusement park.

Re:An honest question

[deek]

Don't forget His and Her Circumstances. I recently borrowed this off a friend, and it's extremely good! There are some absolutely classic scenes in this series. Highly recommended.

DeeK

Re:An honest question

[kEnder242]

what?
http://www.animetempy.com/
The series in the spotlight section are usually worth your time. I also like the reviews, 4-5 stars is usually a guaranteed win.

where?
http://abma.x-maru.org/guide/
http://an ime.mircx.com/

Re:An honest question

[peter_gzowski]

What is it that people see in anime?

Are you new? I see this question every freaking time /. posts an anime story. I'm starting to believe that it's actually posted by anime fans who want to give their fellow anime fans an opportunity to karma whore. The replies are always "it's a medium, lots of crap, some good," followed by the poster's personal top-ten of anime, which rarely deviates from the standard top-ten of anime, except maybe for some fansub-du-jour that they throw in to let everyone know that they're still "current". God knows, I've been tempted to do it myself. I don't see this question asked about Linux every time some story is posted about version X.YrcZ of some distro. "What is it you guys see in Linux? What is it as a whole that makes you such great fans of it? I tried to install DragonBallZ Linux, and it seemed to fight with me for days while nothing actually happened...". People then posting their favorite distros for 80 comments, moderators modding up the comments about distributions they like...

From here on in, let it be known that this question has been answered, numerous times. Look up an anime favorites list on google or just check the commentary in any /. anime story, watch some of the recommended shows, and decide for yourself.

Re:An honest question

[Pxtl]

I want to find that somewhere - I watched it at my local anime club and was pissing myself laughing the whole way.

For non-fans - His and Her's is basically the best chick-flick ever. Its the usual stupid romantic duelling storyline, except its actually funny (instead of Cameron Diaz traipsing around being a ditz).

Get it for your girlfriends.

Re:An honest question

[BigFire]

Although there are plenty of series that were cancelled, even the famous ones.

"Mobile Suit Gundam" was originally slated for 52 episodes run. By around episode 30s, their sponsor was ready to pull the plug, and only the pleading of the producers got them up to 43 episodes. This team's next series "Space Runaway Ideon" got the exact same treatment, except the producer weren't able to get them the 4 episode extension. The fans of Ideon have to wait another year to watch the ending on two movies.

Re:An honest question

[Golias]

It's why George Lucas wet his panties over CGI, becuase it opens up the kind of freedom you get in animation for live action directors.

True, but I think we are just about all in agreement that Lucas did much better work when he was forced to stay within the constraints of traditional film-making and special effects.

Re:An honest question

[iabervon]

It's easier to be perfectionistic in making anime than it is in making a live-action film; you can tweak the visuals arbitrarily until they're just right, and it's much easier to do a lot of takes of the audio and splice the best ones together, because you're not trying to fit video and the actors don't have to do difficult things while speaking. This means you can get a better result with somewhat less effort, and that you can get a good result with less skilled people taking more time.

American cartoons tend to be taken less seriously than anime, which means that you don't get as impressive results most of the time.

So anime isn't automatically great, but it's a lot more practical for a lot of good stories.

Re:An honest question

[geekoid]

I understand your question, IMHO most anime sucks.
However, Cowboy Beebop is one fine series. I recommend it because it is a good movie, the fact that it is anime is really secondary.
I suggest you find someone with a copy, and watch the first DVD. I think you'll enjoy it, most people I've shown it to have.

to sum up:
Cowboy beebop is:
1)sexy
2)well written
3)well drawn
4)cool looking ships
5)funny
6)subtle
7)characters with depth
8)thought provoking
9)wity
10)action packed

Re:An honest question

[captaincucumber]

I think I know the answer.

90% of everything is crap, and we've all already seen the 10% of movies and TV shows in the U.S. that don't suck. You've seen all the episodes of Seinfeld, you've seen The Godfather and Star Wars and The Matrix. And Once you've seen all that, all that's left is The Postman and Waterworld and Crossing Over with John Edwards.

So we've seen all the good stuff that the U.S. has to offer, and we're hungry for more good entertainment. Enter anime. You pretty much never see this stuff on TV or in movie theaters, and the only stuff you do see is stuff that makes it through quite a filter - you get the very best that Japanese creativity has to offer. On top of that, coming from another culture, it's very different, it's doesn't fit the cookie cutter mold of so many of the movies and shows we see here in the U.S.

So that's why I think a lot of people like anime, we ran out of good Western entertainment, so we turn to the best from other cultures. Of course, I suppose this explanation I've given doesn't explain why we're not into artsy French films ;)

Re:An honest question

[VivianC]

I agree with all of your points on the strengths of Cowboy Bebop, but there is something you left out: Fantastic Music!

I'm not a big anime fan. I was hooked into this show while flipping channels and heard some of the music. I bought the 'Perfect Sessions' 3 DVD set and only really know the english voices. I also bought the most of the soundtracks (even after downloading the MP3s for free).

Glad this is coming to Chicago. I'll be at the Music Box that night.

Re:An honest question

[Mike Markley]

True, but I think we are just about all in agreement that Lucas did much better work when he was forced to stay within the constraints of traditional film-making and special effects.

Yes, but this is because he lacks the imagination to create both awesome visuals and a good story... seems like it's one or the other with Lucas ;).

Re:An honest question

[Erik Hollensbe]

I know the true anime fanboys will wretch at this name....

But the first anime that I saw was Akira. Admit it, that's what it was for quite a few of you, too.

I was already a big fan of animation, and scenes like the motorcycle riding on the bridge in the beginning, with the light tracers on the bikes, that impressed me. The falling buildings did too.

The story was hard to follow at first and I really wasn't impressed with it until the second time I watched it.

What really, really did it for me was the end of the movie. Where Tetsuo turns into the giant flesh beast.

I would be really, really impressed if I see that in CGI (that is, the transformation of a real, moving, live actor into the flesh beast) in the next 5 years. I'm sure it could be done, but the intracicy (sp?) of the work would have to be detailed and well-coordinated with the actor to be realistic.

ouch

[lingqi]

that title is just... AWFUL.

btw if you translate the japanese title directly i think it's "heaven's door" - I thought the "knocking no heaven's door" would be a good english interpretation (yes I watched the japanese one)... probably have to do with copyrighted song titles? though AFAIK you can't copyright song titles at all.

ack. that is just whack.

btw, no nudity as far as I remembered (though there was points where Faye was pretty close), so I don't think much will be cut. Violence was not extreme either as well, IIRC;

btw, anybody (who saw it in japanese) knows who sang the opening song? it was in english, but I can't figure it out.

Re:ouch

[Microlith]

There will be nothing cut. You mistake them for Miramax and Disney, whom seem content to edit stuff to death until they think it's marketable.

The crew behind the US release of this movie is the same as the one behind Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (well, it's changed a bit) and they left that whole.

Also the song:

"Ask DNA"
Words by: Tim Jensen
Sung by: Raju Ramayya
Music by: Yoko Kanno
Performed by: Raju Ramayya and Seatbelts

Re:ouch

[minusthink]

faye is ALWAYS close to nude.

Re:ouch

[Rhinobird]

In the opening credits she's holding onto something of hers, but it's all silloetted and you can't really see...whew, is it a tit bit nipply in here or is it just me?

Re:ouch

[BigFire]

The ADR director is the same as the TV series, and all of the principle Voice Actors return for the movie.

An honest question that deserves an honest reply

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one simply see anime as another medium of creative expression. Many people who don't "get anime" (not you obviously) see it as nothing but a cartoon. That's just ignorant. That's like seeing Saving Private Ryan as "just another shoot-'em-up action movie".

I think one reason anime has such dedicated fans are two-fold.

1. Animation can show things real life cannot either due to technological, financial or time constraints. For example, Cowboy Bebop. If you've seen the series, imagine trying to translate that into a show or movie. You know how much money that would cost? I'd guess upwards of $20 million an episode on average (CG ain't cheap, especially when every second has some).

2. The culture in anime is unique. It's the same reason Star Wars has a cult following. Because anime is it's own little isolated universe. There are things otaku (anime fans to the nth degree) can say/do that another otaku will understand, but a casual observer would say "What the Hell is that?"

I personally think those are huge factors in the fandom of anime, the unique culture it presents and the fact anything they can think up can be done.

I want 'em in my theater!

[strredwolf]

Give us Lupin the IIIrd and Cowboy Bebop! YEAH! I'll gladly usher those days!

Mods are dumb

[D iz a n k Meister]

The parent is hardly off topic if you have any clue as to what the story is about(Cowboy Bebop Movie).

It's like me saying, "I like these old school games. Back in the day this was all people needed."

Weak moderation, very weak. Would you rather he spoil the movie??

If you can't wait until April 4th...

[Anonymous Coward]

...you can always commit the criminal act of copyright infringement and download the fansubbed version of the movie ahead of time. (You will need the emule p2p app to download it.)

I know I did! I'm a filthy little pirate who's seen it thrice, and will see it once again at the theater, and again when it's finally on DVD.

Re:If you can't wait until April 4th...

[Op911]

Too bad sometime the fansubs are better than the subs on the DVD. I bought the Asian versions of the DVDs for Great Teacher Onizuka and was horrified at the terrible subs... the fansubs are far far better. Oh well. I downloaded it, liked it, and so bought it so my conscience is clear.... about those particular Divxs....

Re:If you can't wait until April 4th...

[fenix down]

That sounds like you bough a Hong Kong bootleg off eBay. Crappy quality, still pirated. The Japanese release isn't going to have subtitles (unless you get lucky like with FLCL). That's why you have fansubs. If you want a legit translated version, you have to wait for it to show up at Suncoast. May your consience be re-soiled.

Re:If you can't wait until April 4th...

[Op911]

you despoiler of innocence..... :(

Cowboy Bebob?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that supposed to be some kind of stereotypical American name?
Hell, we should make a cartoon that makes fun of tradional Japanese heroes! Call it something like Samurai... Samurai Jack!

Oh wait! Crap!

Re:Cowboy Bebob?

[nule.org]

The "Bebop" is the name of Jet Black's spaceship. Cowboy is a generic term referring to bounty hunters. There is no "America" in the future (2073 IIRC) the show depicts because a good portion of the world was severly damaged during an early experiment with hyper-space style trasportation (the "gate accident" is how it is referred to). That's not to say there isn't stereotyping in the show. In particular people of African or even Asian descent are often stereotyped in what could be considered a negative fashion. It's not as bad as some anime, IMO.

Check the show out if you can - it's a stellar example of what anime can do.

Computer Aided Translation

[xfs]

"We had a note about the American premiere last summer, but now it's finally open for general admission"

Using the Taco->English translation on babelfish, it comes out as:

"HAHA BASTARDS, CANT TELL ME ITS A REPOST NOW"

OI! MOD PARENT UP!

[CrocOS]

If you had seen the movie, you would understand that this is _VERY_ on-topic... Besides, it's better then posting a scummy spoiler!

-Trav

Re:Bah Humbug - Seen it.

[Microlith]

The Japanese DVD didn't have subtitles!

If your disc did, it wasn't Japanese! Or legit!

voices

[gid13]

thank heaven (since we're knocking on it's door anyway) that the original voices are used... i watched most of the series with subtitles, and then a dubbed episode... beyond the fact that the people who dub voices almost invariably suck more ass than a prisoner named bubba, there's the horribly disconcerting sense that you no longer know the characters... btw for anyone that has watched the series but not the movie (is there anyone?), check it out... it's good

Re:voices

[diablobynight]

I think your absolutely correct I own the DVD release of the series and always watch it in non subbed form, because the japanese voices seem so much more true to the charachters than the american voices. Spike doesn't come across as apathetic as he needs to, Jet sounds like a damn idiot, hell they even fucked up Edd's voice, I am just going to continue watching my sub-titles.

The Movie

[absurdhero]

I think they changed it to "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" to make sure that us American's can be sure that it is, in fact, a movie. Who knows, it could be terrorist propaganda or some mix between country music and old school bebop. How should we know?

Re:The Movie

[Rhinobird]

In that case, I wish they would have renamed the movie "Fern Gully" to "Fern Gully: Environmentalist clap trap", but that's just me.

I've already watched Cowboy Bebop:KoHD

[josh crawley]

I got a fansubbed version of it on a CD Xvid compressed fullscreen. I'll say this.... If it comes out in theaters here, I'm watching it, and I'll buy the DVD.

In terms of quality, the animation is beautiful. The storyline, I believe, is the movie between EP 24 and 25 of the Cowboy Bebop series. This explains some weird 'sayings' in the alang=ja,slang=en of the American dvd.

ARE YOU LIVING IN
THE REAL WORLD?

Re:I've already watched Cowboy Bebop:KoHD

[Microlith]

Between 23 and 24.

And what do you mean This explains some weird 'sayings' in the alang=ja,slang=en of the American dvd.

Re:I've already watched Cowboy Bebop:KoHD

[josh crawley]

Sorry.. Alang and slang is mplayer dvd audio and subtitling commandline options. I was doing commandline options to mencoder and comments/commandline crossed ;-)

Alang = Audio Language. Audio to Japanese
Slang = Subtitle language. Subtitling to English

Re:I've already watched Cowboy Bebop:KoHD

[josh crawley]

---You can tolerate using mplayer for dvds? A brave man you are. And tolerant.

I just created a stupid 'lil app for common switches for mplayer. Makes running a movie (on amy medium) simple for me.

---And what were you referring to about an american dvd? The coming one (that'll be released N months from now)?

NO. I already have a rip of the CB: movie.

I was reffering to slight points that 'just dont add up' in the american DVD episodes if you dont watch the movie. If you watch the episodes (in american voices), all seems normal. Watch them in japanese/eng subtitle, and there's "holes" (for lack of a better name).

Re:Bah Humbug - Seen it.

[CrocOS]

I never said if I actually had a DVD, or that I ever needed subtitles =)

But seriously, I just saw the fan-subbed DiVX =)
-Trav

Well... I can count to 10 in Japanese... =)

Weird coincidence

[Astroboy!]

I just finished watching episode 15 of the series, I pop open slashdot before hitting the sack, and here's news I can use!

Can't wait for Spike-san to 'hit it' on the big screen.

As long as they start off the flick with 'Tank', I'll be happy.

sigs? we don't need no steenking sigs here

One more thing I forgot to add...

[Syncdata]

Cowboy bebop also has the most rediculously awesome opening title sequence of anything commited to celluloid, ever. IMHO of course.

Re:One more thing I forgot to add...

[Chris Tucker]

So Syncdata sez:

"Cowboy bebop also has the most rediculously awesome opening title sequence of anything commited to celluloid, ever"

That's what got me to watch that first episode on Cartoon Network!

There was more action and attention demading images than in almost any hour of live action prime time TV.

And don't forget that wonderful opening music! "3,2,1, let's jam!"

Re:Hmmm.

[carpe_noctem]

Too bad I already got the movie on fan-sub as a gift, otherwise i'd get it when it came out on dvd

Ahh, what better present than pirated movies. It's the gift that keeps on giving (or should that be taking)...

trailer is avalible

[cyrax777]

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/cowboybebop/ and yeah I have the fansub but ill still get the dvd once it comes out. No brainer crappy dvd rip vs real dvd with proffesinal translation and a excellent dub cast.

Timeline??

[Danse]

So this movie is supposed to take place somewhere between the middle and the end of the series or what?

Re:Timeline??

[Microlith]

Between episodes 23 and 24.

Read through more posts, the answer has already been mentioned a few times.

WHAT? No TANK?

[CrocOS]

Sorry dude - From a post last time this was mentioned:

"Ask DNA"
Words by: Tim Jensen
Sung by: Raju Ramayya
Music by: Yoko Kanno
Performed by: Raju Ramayya and Seatbelts

Like I said... Sorry =)
-Trav

Stupid Question

[calc]

Why do people like fansubs over dubs, at least for the people who don't know japanese, don't they lose a large part of the dialog due to not understanding the person's inflection/tone. Perhaps that isn't a big issue? I've watched many of both type and end up liking dubs due to that reason.

Re:Stupid Question

[CrocOS]

Not soo stupid if you don't know the answer:

Because until this movie is released and can be ripped, only the fansubbed version is available.

And as a personal reason, I prefer the voices on the original cast - the dubbed voices don't sound right, well at least if it is the same crowd that dub'd the series on DVD vs. the orig. cast.

-Trav

Re:Stupid Question

[calc]

I know this movie isn't available in dub form yet. But what point is hearing the original voices if you don't understand the language and that something has different meaning depending on its tone. Perhaps this is just a issue for the English language?

Re:Stupid Question

[Microlith]

It does bother me that you say "until this movie is released and can be ripped."

You do realize that the only way to compensate them for their work is to buy it, right?

Re:Stupid Question

[Intocabile]

If you've watched enough anime you pick up on the culture/language/emotion. I'm at a point where I could care less about reading subtitles. I dream to be fluent but that'd take more time then I have as an engineering student.

Re:Stupid Question

[CrocOS]

Don't worry Micro - I know you either sell DVD's or at least you often chuck the animeondvd link as your sig =)

Firstly, I am a realist: When the DVD is released, it will be ripped.

Secondly, yes, I'm not thick. =)

I'm in a backwater (as far as Movie releases are concerned, anyway) of a country called New Zealand: If the movie is released on a zone/region 4 (Asia/Pacific region) I will buy it, just like I brought the english dub of the series - I've got 3 of the DVDs so far. I've got the entire series as DiVX, which tends to be the only way that I can get some movies / shows. If the movie is released in the cinema I will go, though I might not buy the DVD in that case.

Heh... I'm one of the few people that I know who can say that they own actual legal licences to every bit of software I have installed on my Windows computer - that includes MS Visual Studio 6.0 Enterprise edition and Office XP Pro.

Likewise, I try to buy the DVD or go to the movie for any movies / shows that I have, if they are available. If they are NOT available though, I don't inconvenience myself (I always buy locally - I've had a couple of bad experiences buying from overseas) and nor do I feel guilty or responsible.

Besides, I don't understand why you should try to act as the consience for others: Maybe if you knew me, OK, but on slash?? Heh - funny =)
-Trav

Re:Stupid Question

[CrocOS]

I'm not so aware of the wording inflection issue from a Japanese language point of view, but I have encountered it with some Indian work-mates who, while they do speak pretty good english, have a tendancy for changing the meaning of their words through tone, meter and inflection of their speech.

I find that hearing the tones in the speech helps bring clearer meaning to what is going on - you can often understand exactly what is happening in some of the scenes through simply hearing the words and the tone, even before you have read the subtitle. But that's just me: I know my flattie refuses to watch anything subtitled - he claims that needing to read while watching detracts from the action. I personally disagree with that, but hey, that's his opinion =)

L8r!
-Trav

Re:Stupid Question

[fenix down]

You can still use the tone, emotional cues don't change that much. Also, the subtitles are a closer-to-direct translation while the dub script is designed to get the gist across while fitting into the timing of the Japanese lines. Personally, I just had too many bad experiences with crappy English voice acting and got used to dealing with subtitles. Shinji should not scream like Homer Simpson. Ug.

Re:Stupid Question

[marbike]

This puts me into a minority of anime viewers, but I generally prefer the dubs over subs based solely on my ability to see what is going on without have to read the dialouge. However, there is one notable exception...
Inu Yasha is perhaps the worst dubbing in anime. I bought the series based on the advise of my local Sam Goody salesperson. This person sees all of the series that I buy and generally makes good suggestions as to titles I will like. I purchased Inu Yasha based on his reccomendation and I throughorly enjoy the series. However, I had to turn off the english track and put up the subs because the english track was so poorly translated and acted. And at 3 episodes per disc, Inu Yasha was going to get expensive. I have since bought the fansubed Hong Kong imports and I really enjoy it. The cost for the entire first season was about the same as three discs of teh American release.

To answer the question, however, I would call some of the "Subs rule, Dubs suck" anime freaks elitist and just trying to stand out as original. It is my ever humble opinion that sometimes the translations for dubs tends to get the story across better than the subs. This, of course, is not always the case; I guess every rule needs it's exception. I know many fanatic anime viewers who refuse to watch any series in English, and I know one or two who only watch w/ subs. I think that the culture began with the fansubs that were the only way someone who does not speak Japanese could enjoy a show. The viewing public got used to the subs and think that the "Official" translations by the importing production houses were lacking. I think that swearing may have had something to do with this as well, as fansubs often tend to use harsher language than really was said or meant. When someone has seen the same show fansubbed many times and the dub does not use the same level of gutter language, the viewer thinks that it was toned down for it's US release.

All that aside, I highly reccomend that when you watch a new show, try it both ways. Look for the way that suits the show the best and then watch the entire series that way.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Golias]

but what about other major cities, like Atlanta or Charlotte? I'm sorry to have to break it too you, but if you don't live in one of the cities this is being released in, you don't live in a major city. You live in fly-over land. It takes more than having an NBA franchise (for a brief while, in Charlotte's case) to be a major city.

I've lived in the Minneapolis area almost my entire life, and while I love it here, if there's one thing I can't stand it's the huge inferiority complex that some Twin City people seem to have about wanting to be considered an important city. Yes, we have an orchestra that's almost as good as Philly's. Yes, the U of M is has a great medical program. Sure, we have four major league sports teams (for now). Yea, we have the tallest tower between Chicago and California. Blah blah blah. We are not all that important. Half the kids in NYC schools probably can't find us on a map. Foreign visitors think we are a suburb of Los Angelis or something. Get over it already.

There's nothing wrong with simply being from a nice city with only a few million people in it. Are you listening, Denver?

As to anybody else whining about the very limited release of the Cowboy Bebop movie. Hey, small movies always start with a limited release. If you live in any city big enough to have an "arthouse" movie theater or two, it will probably come to you within a couple months. Chill.

Re:Title Changes Hey youngster @ Weiner.com

[puto]

Well having spent a good part of my live in my homeland the(US) and a good part on the road in other countries I can answer you in this way.

Mad Max was called Mad MAx here. I even saw in the US as Mad Max. The second movie was called Mad Max 2, the Road Warrior. And Road Warrior sounds a Helluva lot better than Mad Max 2.

And Gibson was born in New York, pop shipped the whole family back to Aussie Land cause that was where mom was from and to avoid his sons possible conscription into the service into Vietnam.

And we do acknowledge philossopy. But alchemy? Hmmm.

Movie name changes are made all over the world. They do it so that wherever they are showing the flick can get a general idea of what the original title is about. Somethings cannot be transalates.

Knocking on Heavens door is one of the most famous songs in the US, and in English, so I would venture they did it to avoid confusion. And it is actually quite a beautiful tune.

So you know what? Cool your jets, wherever your are from. People are people. Including this yank with one grampaw from Madrid and the other Cajun French(which is better than regular Frog any ol' day") we is all just people.

Puto

Re:An honest question that deserves an honest repl

[Golias]

Actually that was two reasons, not one two-part reason, but whatever.

1. Animation can show things real life cannot either due to technological, financial or time constraints. For example, Cowboy Bebop. If you've seen the series, imagine trying to translate that into a show or movie. You know how much money that would cost? I'd guess upwards of $20 million an episode on average (CG ain't cheap, especially when every second has some).

As was just proven this year with Firefly, a live-action TV show that reminded some people more than a little bit of Cowboy Bebop. At $2 Million an episode, it was simply too expensive to stay on the air with as limited of a following as it had. It was cancelled just as it was getting really good.

In addition to the cost savings and subculture appeal, there's one more reason for anime being loved so much by some people in the US. Only the most appealing stuff ever gets exported. Then, once they went through the trouble of translating and exporting it, they carefully market it to the right audience (Cartoon Network's "Adult Swim" vs. after-school syndication).

Ugh.

[Wes Janson]

That trailer was revolting. I had to contain my digestive track from inverting itself onto the keyboard looking at that sad commercialistic tripe advertisement. Cowboy Bebop has never needed commercials. They more likely drove away fans by making that trailer, then did anything to attract viewers to all 4 cinemas playing it, NONE OF THEM IN FLORIDA!

Hehehe Irvine a 'major city'

[foniksonik]

I live in Irvine and I love the fact that we get all the limited release Animes... Vampire Hunter D, Cowboy BeeBop, Princess Ahime, the list goes on... but it's a city of like 250,000 people maybe twice that during the day (damn commuters) and NOT a major city. Over 50% of the residents drive a luxury car and pay more than twice what they should for their housing but still...

oh well, I'll just count my blessings. April 4rth will be a very entertaining day!

DBZ Too Deep for you

[Nazmun]

Okay so it's not really deep in the normal sense but it is entertaining. I hated my first 6 episodes that i watched. Had a cousin that really liked it...

then something happend and i got obsessed, and made this site dbzn.net

Re:DBZ Too Deep for you

[Dougthebug]

Many DragonBall Z fans will disagree, but what makes DBZ such an addicting show is its "soap opera" like characteristics. Yea sure, there is action, fighting, and cool explosions, but thats just what gets people interested in it. What keeps people hooked is the suspense. Every episode ends as though something really really cool is going to happen in the next episode, but in reality those really cool things only happen like every 8 episodes.

Daytime TV : Soap Opera :: Anime : DragonBall Z

Re:DBZ Too Deep for you

[Uller-RM]

*laugh* My girlfriend, who shares my anime obsession, were talking about DBZ after I posted, and came to the conclusion that it's really the suspense. So many episodes are just building up to this massive battle... you're compelled to see what happens, even though you've fallen asleep to all the screaming (as oxymoronic as that sounds). And I have to admit that the concept of Saiyan are neat. But I just can't dig it. I think it's the art style that turns me off.

Re:DBZ Too Deep for you

[Nazmun]

Funny you mention that because it's really the non-action eps that got me hooked earlier on. Also you really should watch the Japanese version subbe or something. I can't stand the screaming in the American version.

CowboyNeal?

[faaaz]

Ok, so when do we get to see CowboyNeal? I've been waiting for ages! AGES I TELL YA!

Attack of the Killer Double Titles!

[euxneks]

Honestly, can't someone get it into their head that if it's in a movie theatre, any joe blow could figure out that it's a movie that they're watching? Is the second title "The Movie" really needed? Sheesh.

Re:Attack of the Killer Double Titles!

[Baloo Ursidae]

But it worked so well for Spaceballs. And how do they know they're watching Spaceballs: The Movie when they could just as easily be looking at Spaceballs: The Lunchbox, Spaceballs: The Toilet Paper, or even Spaceballs: The Flamethrower. The kids really like the flamethrower.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Tom Dunne]

Riiiight. So Portland, Oregon is a major city? 28th largest in the country. St. Louis is a major city? 49th largest. On the other hand, Sony couldn't manage a showing for the 45 MILLION PEOPLE who live in Ohio, Pennsylvania or Florida. Cleveland, Philly, Miami... totally flyover land, neither compares to a metropolis on the scale of motherfscking Portland, Oregon!

On the other hand, Sony did manage to get theaters in SF, SJ and Berkeley, all of which are less than 50 miles apart. In short, Sony have no idea what in the hell they're doing with this release distribution.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Hadlock]

have you ever been to berkley? in the last 15 years? there's an enormous population of asians in the bay area, that's where alot of taiwanese people end up settling down, not the rest of the US, although their numbers are growing elsewhere nowadays, especially just north of dallas.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Hadlock]

isn't minneapolis in minnisota? i guess i'd have an inferiority complex if college students didn't know where my semi-large city was, either. i'm guessing minnisota is near the great lakes. i grew up in gig harbor, personally. not too many have heard of it, but it's a nice place in washington state.

bebop?

[joenobody]

I've seen it, and the nicest thing I can say about it that it's not Cowboy Bebop. Ed is messed up, grapically and character-wise. The computer animation is pretty poorly integrated. Jet's barely in the movie and spends most of it moping around like a schmuck. Faye's top is cut open for no particular reason. Spike's at least about right, but Ein is painfully obvious.

The villain is some kind of nihilistic joke who can't even keep continuity -- he survives, without disfigurement, exploding a grenade in his hand that blackens and twists a nearby metal seat, but takes one bullet in the climax and dies.

Speaking of which, the entire story around the contrived love interest is incredibly hammy, and if anyone didn't see that twist at the end coming you'd best get your eyes checked. Ugh.

I didn't expect the world from this movie, but it didn't come close to matching up with the worst episode.

Re:bebop?

[BIGmog]

Bebop fans are gonna be disappointed with the movie. Having seen it, it's basically a regular episode stretched out to be 90 minutes long. 2/3 of the film is pointless filler and boring side plots with little relevance to the story. Simply a let down.

Re:bebop?

[haloscan]

Wouldn't ****SPOILER ALERT**** preceding your post have been more courteous to other people who haven't seen the movie?

How 'bout no, mate.

[fenix down]

Not exactly very ontopic. I guess it's barely topical, but it's like posting "the ring made me invisible!!1LOL!" whenever there's a LotR story. He's just doing a stupid, hey, look at me, I'm geeky enough to know what the hell you're talking about!

Don't mod him up.

Opening Track

[jimius]

Ask DNA by Yoko Kanno
My personal favorite artist. I already have the First Print limited Edition Soundtrack which includes an Ask DNA maxi single :)
Check www.CDjapan.co.jp to get it.

Now gimme karma :)

Re:Hmmm.

[ThundaGaiden]

I'm am definatly glad that anime in general is
getting more mainline exposure , especially with
the animatrix and now Cowboy bebop.

It's such a relief for me watching manga , as they
are more likely to (not always) go in a complete
different direction than movies these days which
always follow the same plot lines or have one
special 'twist' at the end.

Now I just need to get them to Sieki No Senki so
I can finally finish watching the series...

Re:how many cowboy bebop posts in the last 6 month

[SaXisT4LiF]

where did the syndicate storyline comefrom? someone pulled that right out of thier ass. cowboy bebop is just trying to be too cool for my tastes. the kung fu master who doesent talk much and smirks (total lupin ripoff), the preety lady who steals (fujiko ripoff), the young kid who knows everything about computers, and the seasoned vet. plus a pet! wow! interesting charecters? hah





Caution: Possible Spoilers




Spike used to work for the syndicate before he became a bounty hunter. Cowboy Bebop: The Movie is tied into the 26 episode series that you would need to watch before dissing such an awesome movie. The characters all have mysterious pasts; Spike is an ex-syndicconstantly refers life as "Watching a dream," ate member, Jet worked for the ISSP (a secret police), Faye lost her memory during carbon freeze and owes a huge debt to the doctors, and Ed is, well.. Ed (by the way, Ed is a she). and then there's Ein, their pet data dog.

A lot of imagery from the series in repeated in the movie too: Spike has 'died' (or close to it) at leaste twice before in the series (i'm not sure where exactly the movie fits in the time line). Spike's philosophy on life, is that he's watching a dream and feels a need to test himself -- to see if he's really alive. He also displays a brilliant array of martial arts , including Aikido.

The only problem I have, is that I'm so used to hearing the Japanese voices that the English ones don't quite fit. And the line in the trailer "I'm just your average bounty hunter"... it's supposed to be "Cowboy". Hence the name; "Cowboy Bebop" ('Bebop', by the way is the name of their ship)

Personally, I can't wait to see it on the big screen, and I'd recommend that you check it out too: you might be surprised.

I've always been...

[tenjah]

Fairly so-so about animé. Live action movies too. Come to think about it, any form of entertainment that doesn't come between 2 covers of paper or on a monitor. I don't even have a tv for goodness sakes.

I love GITS the movie, Stand Alone Complex is ok, if a little convoluted at times. Akira, obviously, and I have fond memories from my teenage years of Crying Freeman, Fist of the North Star, Legend of the Overfiend and a few others.

My wife fansubs a few series, and our hard drive is chock full of many many series. (Over 20gb of pure animé).She reckoned that I would enjoy CB and she was right. CB is the DOG'S BOLLOCKS. And gets the Tenjah-Tenstar official seal of approval.

If ur only so-so about animé, CB won't dissapoint!

Re:how many cowboy bebop posts in the last 6 month

[MonkeyDluffy]

One Piece is good if you like the old fashioned sea-pirates with EXCELLENT charecter backgrounds!

Supposedly CN may be showing One Piece sometime in the future. It has also been licenced by a US company, so it will come out on R1 DVDs. One Piece has well over 100 episodes, and is still running strong on Japanese TV.

-MDL

Not in many theaters

[bheerssen]

It's a shame they couldn't get this released in more cities. I'm gonna have to go all the way to Austin to see this, but go I will. Dallas is actually closer but, well, it's Dallas - so I'll go to Austin.

Anyone know if there are full length DVD releases available for this movie or other Cowboy Bebop titles?

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[the uNF cola]

Half the kids in NYC schools probably can't find us on a map. I think the same can be said about NY kids trying to find NY. [/joke]

Re:Title Changes Hey youngster @ Weiner.com

[Wiwi Jumbo]

And we do acknowledge philossopy. But alchemy? Hmmm.

What do you mean by this?

My state sucks

[saboola]

We dont know how to vote, subsequently we dont get cowboy bebop movies. Maybe if Spike was edited out and re-filmed live as Vin Diesel or something, then this state might just find the movie shallow enough to enjoy. I hate Florida.

Re:My state sucks

[sparrow_hawk]

Hey, be glad you don't live in the Upper Midwest. I say "anime" and people reply, "gezundheit".

Or, "The fansub of _Spirited Away_ is great!"

"All right, if we step away slowly maybe he won't attack right away..."

Is there a snowball's chance of me *ever* seeing the MegaTokyo book in a bookstore? Nope. And the author/manga-ka is from frickin' Michigan!

Re:how many cowboy bebop posts in the last 6 month

[Zanthany]

i mean really? this series has plot holes...

That's exactly why I was addicted to it. Granted, my first Bebop viewings were the Cartoon Network dubs (sorry, anime purists -- I don't mind the dubs that much); but I wasn't being spoonfed every last detail and plot point. I actually had to use my own brain!

All the more general plot points came together as I watched the series vigilantly. Not many people lived on Earth anymore due to constant meteor showers and impacts from Moon debris thanks to a major jumpgate accident. Spike belonged to the Syndicate--a mafia-style organized crime family at war with another gang. Jet was duped by his then partner in the ISSP in a Syndicate ambush, thus losing his arm. It's already been posted, but Faye was unfrozen, accrued a multi-billion wulan debt, and holds a personal desire to find our her past.

This list could go on and on depicting what I learned about the Cowboy Bebop universe without -- like I said before -- somebody spoonfeeding me with all the details. I really jived with leaving the unanswered questions unanswered, even past the next episode. The series to me basically was a process, a non-linear thought-provoking character sketch that unraveled like an artichoke, and I think I'm still not to the heart of the matter.

I just love anonymous cowards

[diablobynight]

They always have such sweet mouths while at the same time they seem to know everything and have been everywhere. I happen to have information from the U.S. Census bureau that denies your belief as to where the huge asian populations are. But what would the census bureau know. http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/atlas/cen sr01-108.pdf

Re:I just love anonymous cowards

[Timmeh]

The grandaprent post may have been incorrect, but I don't see how being asian implies being an anime fan. So because I'm about 20% french I must love to smoke, drink wine and complain about US foreign policy?

Re:I just love anonymous cowards

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno...what do YOU think about Jerry Lewis?

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[diablobynight]

That's not fair to say, they would be able to find it, if they could see past Giuliani's big head. You know there making a tv movie about him? Why on earth would they do that, it's not like he put the fires out.

Re:'Anime' Is The Emperor's New Clothes Of The...

[Pxtl]

Watch cowboy bebop. Its not a high-culture trendy thing, or a deep meaninful thing, or a bizarre schoolgirls in panties thing.

Its just a fucking good show. Its fun, action-packed, funny, stylish, and entertaining. This headline could be easily "Nifty-sci-fi movie coming".

Yes, many anime fans are obsessed wierdos who think that Nurse Angel is high culture. Before it was imported, I know many guys who watched Cart Captor Sakura on much-coveted import tapes.

Those people suck. There is a lot of good anime. THere are a lot of people who will watch anything, as long as it is anime. Don't listen to them - listen to normal, reputable folks (like Taco) on their opinion.

And see Bebop. 'tis good.

BTW, anybody else thinking they should've left the title? Bebop was meant to be aimed at Americans. The massive amount of American music references reflected that. I mean, referring to one of Billy Joel's classics would've been a fine thing for american audiences, but they had to call it "The Movie"?

Gundam Wing-Cowboy Bebop

[diablobynight]

These two series were filled with more drama and intelectual commentary than any series ever made in the U.S. When Spike in episode 25 I believe says. "What are you going to do, throw your life away as if it were nothing?!" - Faye "I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." - Spike I thought to myself, with the previous conversation that this is the deepest charachter I have ever come upon. Or in Gundam Wing when Hero gives a ten minute monologue in one of his classes. I thought to myself that no tv show would allow so much talking of one person. Plus in Anime, you ussually need to watch the whole series otherwise it's like reading a book starting at the middle, they ussually have continuing storylines so that you really get to know the charachters as apposed to the 30 minute stories we get in most tv where one episode has little to do with the next and you can play them all out of order and no one cares. Anime is stories, not sit-coms, but true stories, with a hero, a person that even at my age I can envy. And see in that charachter the nobility and heart I would like to find in myself. You see we feed on it even more now, because we are no longer alloted the chances to be heroes, wars are fought from plains and their are no great battles of sword and shield. No memorable moments, and no songs are song to remember the soldiers of old. Anime gives us some of this back. And that is why I love it.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[diablobynight]

I love how everyone thinks that L.A. and New York are the only major cities. First of all, what's so great about L.A., nasty smog, hotter than hell and filled with hippies. And New York, well, it's not as pretty as it used to be, to say the least. But what about Detroit? Is that a fly over city, have you driven a car lately, you don't think that Atlanta is a major city, Their are more corporate headquarters in these flyover cities than you'll ever imagine. The hell with LA, it's a breeding zone for gangland violence, I hope it falls into the sea, and as for New York, it's shitty what happened to New Yorkers, but I hated the city before and I am not changing my opinion out of pitty. I drive a sports car, that sucks in New York, spend all day stuck in traffic, while here in Detroit, I get around at about 90mph

Re:how many cowboy bebop posts in the last 6 month

[bludstone]

kung fu master who doesent talk much and smirks (total lupin ripoff),

Tribute, not ripoff. They straight up admit that hes based on lupin.

Will this be English dubbed?

[Ride-My-Rocket]

I can only assume so, since the Cartoon Network version is all in English. Not that I find that particularly distasteful -- in fact, it's probably one of the best dubbing jobs I've seen to date -- but I also find the Japanese voices more appropriate and in tune with each persons characters (Edward always cracks me up).

Re:'Anime' Is The Emperor's New Clothes Of The...

[hcduvall]

I agree with everything there. The amount of style and craft for the show is better than, well, any tv show I've seen since Twin Peaks. Its nice when they work images WITH the music.

Better yet, its episodic enough to be interesting, while still being a wothwhile cohesive whole series. A lot of other shows seem to get bogged down in their themes and lose track of their time frame.

All that said, I wouldn't say it was meant for Americans. It might be about a love affair with America, or at least American music. But then, Japanese culture is rife with that- personally I cringe whenever english is injected into songs. And entertaining though it is- Honky Tonk Blues is about bluesy as...well, Shania Twain.

So the title change, though regrettable, is a marketing thing. And me, I know it from Guns N' Roses...

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Golias]

I love how everyone thinks that L.A. and New York are the only major cities.

Mexico City has a polulation of that dwarfs most US states. London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Mexico City, Rome, Cairo... these, like NY and LA, are major cities.

Detroit and Atlanta are not major cities, regardless of where Ted Turner and Ford Motor Company choose to be located. They are small cities, made up of only a few million people, and of little note to anybody who doesn't live in either Michigan or Georgia.

That doesn't make them less nice places to live. If fact, I prefer not to live in a major city. I would hate to live in any of the places I just cited as examples.

And WHY are you telling us this??

[boy_afraid]

And WHY are you telling us this?? Are you F*UCKING stupid?

People, you see what happens when someone does nothing but smoke pot instead of going to school and studying? Sheesh, it's these kind of people that make me ashamed to be an American associated with them.

WTF is up with Dallas?

[boy_afraid]

"Why should we leave America to visit America Junior?" - Homer Simpson (talking about Canada)

That's how I feel about Dallas. We Houstonians, people who live in Houston, TX, hate how much attention Dallas gets even though WE are the larger city with the better economy and better attractions, all around better. Maybe it's its geographical location, but no port gets more traffic than our Ship Channel. Now I hear that Cowboy Beebop is going to show in Dallas and not Houston? WTF? Even when there is some sort of music concert the artists go to Dallas instead of Houston and I think, "WTF?" !!

I think the city where JFK and that lousy tv series was based would be avoidable.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Ghostx13]

Hate to tell you, but Atlanta is a major US city. It has one of the fastest growing populations of any US city, hosted the 1996 Olympic Games, and is home to busiest airport in the WORLD, Hartsfield International.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[diablobynight]

http://www.mtc.ca.gov/datamart/forecast/ao/tablea4 .htm Please go there and please shut up. Detroit and Atlanta combined may only have 1/2th the population of LA, but I wonder what percentage of those two tons can more than afford to head out and see anime movies. Do you think the wood, or the other gang filled areas are going to be running to the movies. Plust LA jacks up it's population by annexing other towns into LA. When you look at the economic standing of Atlanta compared to LA you'll notice a trend, there are a few rich in LA, but when you consider their unemployment rate compared to Atlanta you can see that a good percentage of their population can't afford movies. or much other than food for that matter. These are not fly over cities. I measure a city by more than it's population. I measure it by the size of it's buildings, the economic wealth of the people in it. who cares if you have 8 million poor beggars in a city, if you could go to a city like boston with 1 million well off college kids. THis is where I would put these movies. These cities that are surrounded by immense quanitites of colleges. like Boston that has more colleges in its metropolitan area than any other city. COllege kids watch anime, not whinos

No, actually

[acidrain69]

Actually, you still can hear inflection/tone in the dialog in japanese, and associate that along with the subs while you read.

I happen to like subs over dubs because I find american cartoons always have cheesy accents which take away from the seriousness. Now, I figure that the japanese is just like this, if I could actually understand japanese, but I can't, so the cheesiness is lost on me.

Some people are very very anal about this (otaku fanboys/girls). I'll always take a sub over a dub if it is available, otherwise I'll settle. Also, I find it's easier to eat food and listen to a dub than eat and try to read subs at the same time :)

Re:'Anime' Is The Emperor's New Clothes Of The...

[murph]

Good post, but to nitpick:
I mean, referring to one of Billy Joel's classics would've been a fine thing for american audiences, but they had to call it "The Movie"?

Knockin on Heaven's Door is a Bob Dylan, not Billy Joel song.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Golias]

You are exactly the sort of person I was ranting about. People who can't just be happy living in their relatively insignifigant (on a global scale) city which has a few interesting things to be proud of, but that's all.

Atlanta is the biggest city in a small, jerkwater state, yes. That does not make it a Major City. I don't care if they hosted the Olympics. So did Lake Placid.

Dubbing

[Ogre332]

lots of people are complaining about the title but i hope i'm not the only one who is more upset over the fact that this is a dubbed version. i won't go to see it simply because of that. something is always lost in the translation.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Golias]

Your link only served to strengthen the case that NY and LA are the only major cities. Each has a population of over 14 million. Chicago is the next closes with 8, and most of the other cities who like to think of themselves as "major" metropolitan sites have about 2-4. Pretty much what I thought.

Milwaukee, Providence, and Columbus are exactly what New Yorkers are talking about when they use the expression "fly-over land." If you live in Detroit, you live in a small-ish city. Get over it already.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Chris Tucker]

It sucks to be you, A.C.!

I live in Boston. I'll ride the subway for maybe 20 minutes on April 4th, get off in Cambridge and walk a few minutes to the theater where I'll enjoy Cowboy Bebop, The Movie.

Yes! Boston/Cambridge is a "Major City"! I might weep openly with joy and pride at this signal confirmation of my status as a resident of a "Major City" as decided by Sony!

ObOfficeSpace quote:"Damn, it feels good to be a ganster!"

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[diablobynight]

I like how you ignored what I said about wealth, I wonder how many people in LA are under the poverty level compared to Atlanta or Boston. Oh and detroit would be bigger if we anexed in a bunch of surrounding towns, like LA did. We could annex in Grosse Pointe and make our economic power increase by ten fold.

Great Movie

[nule.org]

A friend of mine got me hooked on Bebop after showing me a few of the eps on DVD. I immediately went to eBay and bought a complete set of DVDs (26 eps on 3 dvds for about $40 on regionless disks from HongKong, with English audio) a boxed set of the series music (4 cd's, some great tunes) and a copy of the movie (about $8, regionless, English subtitles from HongKong).

I am a bit biased about the movie since I dig the series so much, but it is really an impressive feat of animation. IMO the best I have seen in any anime, Ghost in the Shell and Princess Mononoke included. The story is pretty good, but somewhat akin to the X-Files movie - which seems just like an extended episode with nifty effects thrown in. Don't let that fool you though - I think I this thing can stand on its own, and I can't wait to hear it with the English-language voice actors who are fabulous in the series.

If you get a chance to see some of the episodes before the movie you should do so. You'll appreciate more of the in-jokes and understand some of the oddities (like Ed :) ). Chronologically, I think the movie happens somewhere during the middle of the series so it won't give away the end if you haven't watched it all. If you have, don't worry, it will just enhance your appreciation of it.

Here's to hoping it comes to Cleveland.

Re:Great Movie

[nule.org]

Too bad you are AC - I'd be curious how I can tell what version is "offical" versus "bootleg". These things sure as hell look "official", not that a pirate isn't capable of making something look real, but what is a consumer supposed to do?

Well, at any rate, I went to the video store and saw a price of $30 for 4 episodes or $30 for the whole set (26 eps) on eBay, supposedly new and legit. What would you do? I paid for and own all my music and that's a lot better than I can say for most of my friends. My apologies to the copyright owner if I bought an illegit copy, but go out and make the real thing cheaper and easier to find in this country and we'll talk.

Re:Great Movie

[mink]

Nice of you to support piracy.
At least your honest about it.
To bad the people whose work you love didnt see a dime of the money you paid.

Re:Great Movie

[mink]

You are complaining about a cost of $30 (US I assume) for 4 episodes. shit man back in the day you were lucky to get 35 min of anime for $40 on VHS.

You want to know why HK bootlegs are so cheap (entire series on a couple DVDs) is because they dont have to pay things like licensing or distro rights.

Ameicans do not apreciate how much preogress has been made in the last 10 years. Your lucky we even have this kind of stuff comercialy available on DVD.
How was it hard to find, you said right there you found it at the video store?

Re:Great Movie

[nule.org]

One DVD with 4 eps was at the video store. The entire series was no where to be found.

What I think happens is that these are licensed copies, but just not for the American market. Like I can go to Canada and buy drugs for a tenth of the price in America, right? For example, the boxed set of Absolutely Fabulous is around $120 for the first three seasons in the US, but around $60 for all four from the UK (ebay, again). Is this pirated too? It doesn't seem too likely to me. Just priced for the market it is supposed to be sold in.

Anyway, for better or worse these kinds of market pressures only help the consumer. In a perfect market economy there wouldn't be artificial barriers to pricing. Why would I pay $30 for 4 eps when I could get cable for a month for that price? So I'll buy it and assume it is legit until someone proves otherwise.

But I do thank you for your reply. I'll make more of an effort in the future to double and triple check the authenticity of my purchase. I do want to support the artists who are creating the stuff that I enjoy.

Re:Great Movie

[mink]

Well, I cant say for sure without seeing the packaging, but I can give you a link to a site that has information that can help you avoid unlicensed products while still being able to import. The Bootleg Guide

Safest imports are from Region 2, but they will cost you more then domestic release stuff. Domestic, most stores never have an entire seties unless it's a box set, so mail order via the internet is most common IMO.

Anipike is a great resorce for anime information as well as links to various places that sell anime worldwide.

Defination Requested

[Mr. No Skills]

Anime topics seem to be posted frequently. Could someone post some quality links that explains what Anime is and how it differs from a cartoon?

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[demosthenes]

Mexico City has a polulation of that dwarfs most US states. London, Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Mexico City, Rome, Cairo... these, like NY and LA, are major cities.

Detriot and Atlanta are not major cities, regardless of where Ted Turner and Ford Motor Company choose to be located. They are small cities, made up of only a few million people, and of little note to anybody who doesn't live in either Michigan or Georgia.

Detriot: 5.8 million
Atlanta: 4.5 million
Rome: 3.3 million
(according to citypopulation.de)

Are you saying Rome is not a major city now? Or for that matter Berlin (4.2 million), Sydney (4.1 million), Amsterdam (2.1 million), are these now "of little note to anybody"?

Two words - running commentary

[CaptainEcchi]

Personally, I oft times prefer subs simply because I like to razz on whatever I'm watching (even if I love it! Especially if I love it! Nothing is better than mocking the flaws of a series you love!), and it's easier to read and talk than listen and talk, I find.

I also agree with the poster who said the dub voices often sound cheesy.... yeah, they probably do in Japanese, too, but I am stupid gaijin who likes to hear people talking Japanese. It also feels vaguely educational that way, so that when I'm watching anime instead of doing Japanese homework, I can at least feel somewhat virtuous. Right? Right.

On the itle change

[melatonin]

I was at the Anime Expo in New York last summer (which was during the premiere of Cowboy Bebop:TM) and was in the Q&A session with the director Shinchiro Watanbe and the music composer Yoko Kanno (and the character designer, forgot his name. Side note: I was in the same room with Yoko Kanno! woot!)

The name was changed because it conflicted with Bob Dylan's song name. That's all. Rather than coming up with some other original title, Mr. Watanabe decided to use "The Movie."

WTF, this was released in 1986

[ZzeusS]

Is this just an English translation? Explain why this is a big deal. The Cowboy Bebob movie has been available on DVD for years and years.

Name Change sucks

[Kaboom13]

All the Cowboy Bebop episodes have song titles for their name, and the song ussually finds its way into the episode. They could've at least kept it as a subtitle, seeing as how everyone will just call ti the Cowboy Bebop anyway. On another note, the movie is highly dissapointing when compared to the high standards of the episodes.

Anime...

[Alkaiser]

Like the above comment says, anime's best when you watch it because it's good. If you're watching stuff because it has to have some deeper meaning, then you're the type of person that convinces themselves that shitty artsy movies are good just because they aren't well liked, or that popular movies suck just because other people do like them.

Think of it as entertainment...it has styles. People like different styles, and this happens to be one that people here seem to like.

However, I don't see why the Bebop movie's generating so much hype. The plot borrows so heavily from Stephenson's The Diamond Age that I knew what was going to happen 15-20 minutes into the movie. I'd rate this movie as being weaker than the good episodes of the series, and since it takes place before the end of the series, it doesn't resolve any of the questions at the end of the series.

Re:Title Changes Hey youngster @ Weiner.com

[malthusan]

I believe he's referring to the Philosopher's Stone which was sought by alchemists as a means to transmute base metals into gold and/or confer immortality on its holder. It has nothing whatsoever to do with philosophy (or Philosophy, for that matter).

Re:Title Changes Hey youngster @ Weiner.com

[Wiwi Jumbo]

Oh yes, I know the idea behind the Philosopher's Stone, but I don't get the idea of "acknowledging" alchemy...

Like the states doesn't admit that Alchemy existed? (As in the practice, not that it actually worked. :)

Also out in Australia..

[Monkier]

Check it out here: www.dendy.com.au

Re:Also out in Australia..

[IrnMonkey]

This is actually a different release of the Movie. I was lucky enough to see the preview a few weeks ago and it is the same as the print screened at the Anime Festival last year. Japanese language with reasonably poor english subs.

Faye is from Singapore

[Anonymous Coward]

To all you Faye fanatics out there, here's a little tidbit you might not have known. =P

Faye is from Singapore, or at least she lived there sometime during her adolescence. In the episode where she receives a Betamax tape mailed by her younger self (before she was frozen), the tape shows scenes from a tropical country, at one point there is a waterfront shot of a statue of an animal that is half lion, half fish. That's a Singaporean merlion. The scene looks almost exactly like the mouth of the Singapore river, there's a big statue of the merlion there.

The merlion appears too in the episode where Faye finds where she grew up. The scenery, architecture and landscape looks very much like Singapore.

Re:Title Changes Hey youngster @ Weiner.com

[malthusan]

aha... I missed that entirely. color me chagrined.

Re:Great news if you live in 5% of America...

[Golias]

We could annex in Grosse Pointe and make our economic power increase by ten fold.

Like LA could do with Hollywood, you mean?

Detroit is a small city. Slightly more important than Omaha, perhaps slightly less than Philly. Sorry you had to hear it from me, but it's the truth.

Oh yea, and the Lions suck.

Re: CCS

[AdamHaun]

Er, excuse me. Card Captor Sakura is a very good show, whether or not you like it personally. Please don't lump it in with the nonstop fanservice set.

Re:WTF is up with Dallas?, Montrose

[boy_afraid]

I used to live in Montrose, up until a month ago. Can't afford to buy a house there, so I got one in Inwood Forest (Northern side of Antoine). I LOVE MONTROSE! We hated leaving, but alas. Montrose is the BEST!