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3-button Optical Mice?

Posted by Cliff on from the we-can-get-mice-with-big-ears-but-not-3-buttons? dept.

proclus asks: "Does anyone else think that scroll wheels are a clunky replacement for the middle button? Mice are supposed to have three buttons, right? It was such an improvement when the three button mice started appearing for PC hardware, but I'm wondering, where are the optical ones?"

180 comments

  1. Um... by Surye · · Score: 0, Interesting

    This is a pathetic article. I have never seen an optical mouse without 3 buttons. You see, the wheel is pretty much ALWAYS a button. and that makes for a great combination. I don't know where you are seeing your mice....

    1. Re:Um... by aleonard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You misunderstood. He want a third button, but he doesn't like the scroll wheel being the third button. He considers it clunky.

      To the asker: Sorry, but it's not going to change. People are used to clicking their mwheel as the third mouse button, and it seems a waste to add a third button and remove the mwheel's click.

      If you really don't want to use the mwheel to click the third button, perhaps you can get an Intellimouse Explorer and remap the fourth or fifth button to the functions the third button typically handles, and use those instead? Otherwise, I don't think it's going to happen, unless a company brings out an optical mouse without a wheel. And some things are too useful to discard - How many keyboards don't have the numpad? Not many, if any at all. It's a lot more useful than ScrlLock. :P

      --
      "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -Dostoevsky
    2. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a Logitech MX-300, which has a clickable scroll whell, and a small button under it that performs the same function (i.e. the button and wheel both map to the middle button). The wheel could be easily removed if you didn't want it. I had the mouse open so I could tape it up and prevent the sides of the mouse from glowing red (optical mouse manufacturers seem to think everyone wants a brightly glowing mouse - I haven't seen an optical USB mouse without this "feature"), and the wheel falls right out. Or you could just adjust the spring tension so the wheel can be easily clicked (IMHO, it's a bit too hard to press by default).

    3. Re:Um... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to dampen the glow?

      Anyhow, my mouse, the Logitech MX 700, doesn't have any glowing, the entire thing is solid coloured. I'd assume the MX 500 is the same.

  2. errr macs ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    unless its on a mac

    1. Re:errr macs ? by decepty · · Score: 0

      I happen to have a MacAlly iceMouse jr. optical mouse, and guess what? It has 3 buttons! Normal L-R buttons and the center scroll wheel doubles as a third button. So yes, Mac mice have three buttons... (iMac DV/SE G3-500/640 - OS X 10.2.5 - pretty, yes, but my love is Darwin)

      --
      Be careful! Bears shouldn't consume large furry dogs.
    2. Re:errr macs ? by decepty · · Score: 0

      and another thing that I errantly left out of my reply... The scroll wheel/button acts as a double click on open windows in the background (At least under 10.1.5, I haven't had Jaguar long enough or really cared enough to try it). Just as you can close non-active windows in the background with a click of the "X", a scroll wheel/button click on a document in a non-active window will open it up without having to click once to bring the window to the front then double click to open the document. So yes, Macs have 3 button mice, and there is a functional (and quite convenient) action attributed to the third button. (And how did a thread on 3 button mice suddenly turn into microbashing? )

      --
      Be careful! Bears shouldn't consume large furry dogs.
  3. I second that thought by Tim_F · · Score: 1

    Most optical mice out there (at least the Microsoft ones) have more than three buttons, usually five. I don't know about the article poster, but the scroll wheel is a very useful technical advancement.

    1. Re:I second that thought by JJahn · · Score: 1

      Umm yeah I use a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, and have from about when they came out. It has 4 real buttons and a wheel. The two side buttons are incredibly convient as well.

  4. Wheel is fine for clicking by perlyking · · Score: 4, Funny

    I use my middle button extensively (clicking on links and closing tabs in mozilla) and find no problem at all clicking it.
    I'm not sure why you want something with less functionality.
    I suppose you could glue the mouse wheel so it doesn't move and pretend its just a button ;-)

    --
    no sig.
    1. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't play much, do you?

    2. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      *you don't play much, do you?*

      i do, and it's absolutely fine for reloading-button or any button. in fact you can just think of the scroll wheel as 3 buttons it is (press, up,down). most(all) have enough resistance on the wheel to prevent accidental up'down movement.

      and if you're not happy with that there's plenty of mouses with thumb buttons/other extra buttons.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      most(all) have enough resistance on the wheel to prevent accidental up'down movement.

      thanks, that was my point exactly. the thing has too much resistance.

    4. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      If you play FPSs and like to click effectively, you're better off with a real, dedicated button.

      The scroll wheel is nice for general productivity stuff.

      --
      May we never see th
    5. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by fault0 · · Score: 1

      > If you play FPSs and like to click effectively, you're better off with a real, dedicated button.

      Not really.. an Logitech MX 500 or Intellimouse 3.0 will pretty much beat any other 3-button mouse on the market.

      The wheel is useful for switching weapons, in any case.

    6. Re:Wheel is fine for clicking by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      It all depends on what you're used to. I've used a three-button trackball for so long that a wheel wouldn't feel right. However, if you prefer a wheel, go for it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  5. I've kinda got one by standsolid · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know what you mean. I have the Logitech dual optical (available at ThinkGeek for the low low price of 35.99)

    there is a tumb button that is useful if you think the middle mouse button on the scroll is somewhat useless. of sourse you still have the scroll, but it's worth a shot, yeah?

    --
    WTPOUAWYHTTOTWPA
    What's the point of using acronyms when you have to type out the whole phrase anyways?
    1. Re:I've kinda got one by Christ-on-a-bike · · Score: 1
      Seconded, this is a good mouse.

      Solid build, good value. The thumb button (if you're right-handed) is the same as middle-clicking the wheel, but has a more positive feel. Plus the 2 optical sensors make it very usable in games.

    2. Re:I've kinda got one by schon · · Score: 1

      I'm in the same camp as the article author - the wheel is OK as a wheel, but sucks as a mouse button..

      there is a tumb button that is useful if you think the middle mouse button on the scroll is somewhat useless

      I've got one of those - after 5 minutes of use, I promptly gave it to my wife..

      The thumb button is pretty useless, as when I use it, the mouse moves 1/4 inch to the right...

    3. Re:I've kinda got one by BigBir3d · · Score: 1

      $34.95 from Logitech.

    4. Re:I've kinda got one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      psst, off topic but the syntax for rm is rm [flags] [file list] (c:\ rm -rf windows/ )

    5. Re:I've kinda got one by LordYUK · · Score: 1

      You're either...

      Trolling.

      Joking.

      Have ham sized fists.

      A complete moron.

      The Dual Optical is perhaps the best mouse I have ever used. Its more comfortable than a standared mouse, as I have slightly large hands ands its a bit bigger than the normal mouse. Its very responsive, especially for RTS and FPS games.

      But be warned, it doesnt exist according to the sales drones at Best Buy. (both my g/f and my mother went to best buys looking for one of these for me last X-mas, and both stores told each of them that there was no such thing)...

      --
      This is my sig. Its pathetic.
    6. Re:I've kinda got one by Blkdeath · · Score: 1
      The thumb button is pretty useless, as when I use it, the mouse moves 1/4 inch to the right.

      Huh? How in the world do you manage that? Do you like let go of the mouse first? ;)

      I've got an A4 Tech mouse a friend gave me years ago (it was in development at the time; she was working on the projcet. Yay; beta mouse!) that has two buttons, a horizontal and vertical scroll wheel, and a thumb button that acts as the middle button. I used that mouse almost exclusvely on my primary workstation for years until I got my optical; pasted text, opened links in tabs, etc. but it never moved due to thumb-clicking.

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      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    7. Re:I've kinda got one by Ender_Stonebender · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think that someone with small hands would be far more likely to have that problem. I have a Logitech Wingman Gaming mouse (the classic Logitech 3-button shape - you can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers) and rather large hands. My thumb goes to the left of it, my pinky to the right, and the remaining fingers get a button each. (Note that this is the only shape of mouse I have found for which this is comfortable.) With my pinky to hold it, and decent feel to the button, I don't think a thumb button using a thumb button would cause the pointer to move. But if someone with hands so small that they couldn't use their pinky (or ring finger for a two-button mouse) to hold it, I could envision there being a problem. But then, I don't have a thumb button to try this with.

      Ender

      --
      Loose things are easy to lose. You're getting your hair cut. They're going there to see their aunt.
  6. No and no. by infonography · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wheel mice are great, only Solaris users really need three and even then wheels are usable under Solaris. Considering I am looking at a banner ad for mice I can only think this is astroturfing. Next we'll see you spouting off about the joys of using a one button mouse. Be gone ye layer of phony shrubbery.

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    1. Re:No and no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the wheel has a much higher resistance, which makes it horrible for clicking in FPS. 5-button mice solve the problem partially, but real 3-button mice are much better. Between a wheel and a third button, I prefer the third button for FPSs.

    2. Re:No and no. by SN74S181 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Huh? Only Solaris users need three buttons?

      There are plenty of uses for the third button, even essential uses in some programs, like xfig. But you're a PC guy, and don't use X I assume. Except maybe as a replacement for Microsoft. Pity.

    3. Re:No and no. by KewlPC · · Score: 1

      X Windows can handle something like 5 buttons.

      Anyone who uses the X Window system without a 3 button mouse is missing out, and some programs require a mouse with 3 buttons, such as Maya (the SGI, Linux, and Windows version do; dunno 'bout the Mac version, but it probably requires one too).

      Solaris is not the only proprietary Unix that works best with a 3 button mouse; practically any Unix system that runs X Windows will benefit from having 3 buttons on the mouse.

      For the record, anyone with a scrollwheel on their mouse has a 5 button mouse.

  7. blarg by E1v!$ · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ummmm,

    Try just about any optical mouse over $15. They'll have a middle button, usually in the wheel (as in 2nd and 1st posts).

    But then they also may have buttons for your thumb, and other fingers.

    The MX700 has 3 middle buttons not counting the one combined with the wheel.

    (it also has 2 thumb buttons an the normal click and alt click.)

    Last, could we PLEASE have more cool articles? This one is pretty much dog food.

  8. Genetically engineered mice. by Associate · · Score: 0

    Yes, but how many asses does it have?

    --
    Someone hates these cans.
    1. Re:Genetically engineered mice. by KewlPC · · Score: 1

      This monkey has less than 4 asses. It's useless to me!

  9. Scroll wheels are indispensable by xwizbt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have a friend who has a three button mouse; no scroll wheel. I find myself sitting there stroking the middle button like some sort of pervert.



    The scroll wheel makes life so much easier - just checking through /. this morning I used it at least as often as the left mouse button. Why on earth would anyone want to get rid of it, particularly when you can click it as well?

    1. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by JimDabell · · Score: 1

      Scroll wheels may be indispensable to you, but obviously not to the poster.

      What does a scroll wheel accomplish that holding down the third mouse button and dragging does not, apart from the fact that a wheel doesn't operate horizontally as well?

    2. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by shamus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With the scroll wheel you can scroll the page without moving your hand, just rolling your finger over the scroll wheel. This makes browsing, especially long pages like /. threads, incredibly easy and comfortable.

      I've yet to find a browser where the click and drag scroll method isn't horrendously clunky. For a start you have to do something to stop it scrolling again. And its either too fast or too slow.

      I've also seen the wheel scroll horizontally in some applications when there is just a horizontal bar and no vertical.

      --

      What's worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows, and who cares.

    3. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by xwizbt · · Score: 1

      Exactly - there's the laziness factor. I'd much rather just move my index finger than move my index finger and the mouse. And since the scroll wheel operates as a third button you can always click and drag if you want to. It's all about ease of use - why navigate to a scroll arrow when you can use the wheel and scroll from anywhere in the window?

    4. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there were some IBM mice that did horizontal scrolling as well.

      It wasn't quite a scroll wheel, more of a raised button that could be pushed in the 4 cardinal directions, which then allowed vertical or horizontal scrolling.
      The only problem was that it couldn't be used as a middle button.

    5. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by pyrros · · Score: 1

      >What does a scroll wheel accomplish that holding
      >down the third mouse button and dragging does not,

      Changing weapons in FPS games. There's no way I'm playing one on a mouse that doesn't have a wheel.

    6. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by JimDabell · · Score: 1

      Funny, that's the one thing I can't stand - it's far too easy to switch weapons accidentally. What's wrong with buttons 4/5 for that?

    7. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by cloak42 · · Score: 1

      What does a scroll wheel accomplish that holding down the third mouse button and dragging does not, apart from the fact that a wheel doesn't operate horizontally as well?

      Well, considering that I have the middle button mapped to double-click rather than AutoScroll, I find that scrolling with the wheel is far better.

      And especially since using the middle button to scroll doesn't work in Mozilla or any other non-Windows based browser, I can think of a lot of people who would have a problem without a scroll wheel.

    8. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by Cyclone66 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know about your mouse but my mouse (logitech) has a clicky wheel. You can feel clicks as you turn it. One click=one weapon. I can easily change to 3 or 4 weapons away from my current weapon without thinking about it.

    9. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by sepluv · · Score: 1
      This so-called 4-D optical mouse (2-D surely? ;-) ) at ThinkGeek can do horizontal and vertical scrolling with a mouseball on top instead of a mousewheel.

      Far more important than its application in spreadsheets etc. is the fact that these are modern optical mouse that still have balls.

      Didn't you find it really annoying that with the advent of optical mice you could no longer play with their balls. All you worries have been lifted with the "4-D optical mouse"!

      Not only can you play with its ball but it is positioned on top so you can do it with out looking like a wierdo with your mouse upside down on your desk. Your boss thinks u r scrolling through important-looking spreadsheets with your ball mouse when u r really just playing with its ball. Amazing stuff!

      --
      Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
      [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
    10. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by divbyzero · · Score: 1

      > using the middle button to scroll doesn't work in Mozilla

      If you're looking for this feature in a Mozilla derived browser, try Phoenix/Firebird. It does it very nicely.

      --
      But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
      Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
    11. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by cloak42 · · Score: 1

      I was going to wait until it reached a later release, but I suppose maybe it's a good idea to look into it.

      Oh, and I love your sig. Those are good poems, as is the show that was based on them (IMHO).

    12. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by Cuthalion · · Score: 1

      Actually the scrollwheel is typically implemented in hardware as sending button 4 and 5 clicks for scrolling down and up. Probably your extra buttons are 6 and 7. :D

      --
      Trees can't go dancing
      So do them a big favor
      Pretend dancing stinks!
    13. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly - there's the laziness factor. I'd much rather just move my index finger than move my index finger and the mouse.

      That's why god gave us trackballs.

      Seriously, though, I never got these people who prefer mice to trackballs. I'm still holding on to my old, old, serial Logitech Trackman. It's the best thing I've ever used (granted I never tried any of the newer model trackmen, or in fact hardly any other trackballs for years). Most people I know who have one wouldn't sell it for any money. I'd love to get a few more as spares, but of course this is increasingly hard as time goes by. It's also ironic because at my first contact with it I simply hated it... But in no time I was in love with it.

      (Funny when I was at a store that sells old equipment, and asked the guy if he had one of those; he asked me if it was "PS/2 or USB". Only then I realized :))

      If you have any of these you want to sell or give away, please reply to this post...

      tmegapscm

    14. Re:Scroll wheels are indispensable by KewlPC · · Score: 1

      They suck for gaming.

      I used to have one (I probably still have it stashed away somewhere), and after about half an hour of gaming I would have to stop - my thumb was just too sore to continue.

  10. Scroll wheel click by Spudley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love the scroll wheel. It is possibly the most significant UI innovation of the last ten years.

    But I hate having it clickable as the third button.

    Particularly in Konqueror, I find myself scrolling through a document, and suddenly I press too hard on the wheel and it jumps me to some random hyperlink that I hadn't even noticed let alone intended to click on. *grrrrr*

    Personally I'd rather have a scroll wheel than a third button. The third button is nice, and I always liked having it, but the wheel is better, and the two don't co-exist too well. :-/

    --
    (Spudley Strikes Again!)
    1. Re:Scroll wheel click by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      -I love the scroll wheel. It is possibly the most significant UI innovation of the last ten years.

      While the scroll wheel is up there, and i do love it, I'd have to say microsoft's application menu (aka the "start button") is the most significant UI innovation in the last 10 years.... think about it, what does X11 come with? a start button knock off... the feel of windows hasn't changed significantly since 95, it's still mostly centered around the start bar once you strip away all the candy from XP. i mean think about it, for a new user, they see a button that says "START" on it.... it can't get much simpler than that. It's so successful that OS 9 even has a third party start bar app out there.... unfortunately OS X doesn't have one yet, and I have to make do with right clicking on the applications folder in the dock. hopefully this'll be rectified soon.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    2. Re:Scroll wheel click by lowmagnet · · Score: 1

      That's what TigerLaunch under OS X is for. Great little free application, that.

      I have to admit that I like the modern Start button/bar better than the old button/bar. The modern form finally hides unused items behind a double-down arrow. This is good for speed, but I wouldn't design an interface that hides things from the users. I'd rather write a system that doesn't allow things like text files and minor utilities under the start menu. I don't need WinRAR's console manual or help file under the WinRAR menu. I just need WinRAR. Same goes for un-installers. They need to make this part easier on the user, instead of just hiding elements.

      --
      Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
    3. Re:Scroll wheel click by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try clicking (rmb or mmb) on the desktop. no need to get as far as the blhc of the screen.

    4. Re:Scroll wheel click by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      nifty. i like that over my app folder in the dock, but it's not quite the start bar clone i'm looking for. i'm still adopting tiger launch though, it's definately faster. hopefully someone will code up an exact clone, the one i'm thinking about for OS 9 even said "start" on it... but this will suffice for now. thanks!

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    5. Re:Scroll wheel click by lowmagnet · · Score: 1

      I'm not a big fan of the start menu on OS X. It just doesn't fit the NeXT-ish paradigm to me. The dock is nice, but you have to hold on the Applications folder to bring up the directory, and there is a pause when going into utilities as it loads all the icons. TigerLaunch caches only the icons one needs, and does so quickly. The ability to place/remove checks next to found programs to enable/disable them is nice too. Ranchero rocks.

      --
      Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
    6. Re:Scroll wheel click by eXtro · · Score: 1

      I think you can do something similar in OS X. If you drag a directory/folder to the dock it'll be embedded in it. If you then click on the folder you can navigate through any hierarchy inside of it. If you release your mouse on an application it will launch. If you release your mouse on a directory it will open. If you release your mouse on a hyperlink it'll open up in your web browser etc.

      I just store applications in mine, so I have one folder called Apps. Beneath that are Graphics, Utilities, Office, Engineering etc.

      You can apply an icon to the folder and make it say "START" if you want.

      --

      Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware

    7. Re:Scroll wheel click by Bazman · · Score: 1

      I think I have the inverse problem. I middle-click on something in Mozilla to get it in a new tab, and the scroll wheel activates just enough so that the mouse pointer is no longer over the link. So it ends up pasting whatever was in my copy-buffer into Mozilla, which then tries to find it.

      So I might try and click on a www.slashdot.org link and it jumps to www.freshmeat.net cos that was in my copy buffer! Most confusing!!! Aarrrgh.

    8. Re:Scroll wheel click by fyonn · · Score: 0

      I'd have to say microsoft's application menu (aka the "start button") is the most significant UI innovation in the last 10 years.... think about it, what does X11 come with? a start button knock off

      actually no, it doesn't. the wm installed by your linux distro of choice might implement something akin to a start button but then if you look at old wm's you'll find that alot of them bring up a similar menu when you click a button on the background. and they predate windows 95. I'd say the idea is pretty similar, just in a different place.

      dave

    9. Re:Scroll wheel click by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      Yes and yes to the parent's parent's poster too. So the most significant UI advance of the next ten years will be when they give us a separate third mouse wheel *and* third button.

      I've seen the expensive mice with four buttons PLUS a wheel/button and - honestly - who is going to learn to use five buttons? Apart from Quake players, anyway.

    10. Re:Scroll wheel click by roka · · Score: 1

      Either your fingers are totally fucked or your mouse.
      I usually don't support [censored], but I tried several mouses at my hardware store, and I felt the [censored] would fit best for me. You should have done that.
      Result: The problem you are describing never happened to me.

      (Besides you could simply deactivate the 3rd mouse button ;))

    11. Re:Scroll wheel click by Gadzinka · · Score: 1

      My Logitech RF Optical mouse has both clickable scroll wheel and third button under the thumb. I couldn't live without the wheel once I got used to it, but I've found that third button under the thumb is much better than in its normal position.

      And the clickable wheel requires so much pressure that I've never managed to click it by accident. In fact, I rarelly managed to press it without turning the wheel so I started to use side button (both wheel-click and side ``thumb'' button serve as third button).

      I don't remember exact symbol of this product, but AFAIR it was the only RF Optical mouse made by Logitech.

      Robert

      --
      Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
    12. Re:Scroll wheel click by Tower · · Score: 1

      My IBM mouse has three buttons and a scroll button/lever thingy. the third button is out by the end (just shorter than it usually would be, and the scroll button is just behind that. Works well, and I don't have the problem of scrolling during a click or vice-versa.

      --
      "It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
    13. Re:Scroll wheel click by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'd have to say microsoft's application menu (aka the "start button") is the most significant UI innovation in the last 10 years
      (Troll alert?) But before it was called the "Start Button", the exact same thing was called the "Apple Menu" and it appeared and gained very widespread use, well over 10 years ago.
      It's so successful that OS 9 even has a third party start bar app out there..
      Oh, that tears it. I did indeed get trolled. :(
    14. Re:Scroll wheel click by KurdtX · · Score: 2, Informative

      Open up your mouse (the physical one)

      Inside there you'll see that the button under your mouse is just a metal spring that brings two contacts together. Tape over, or break off one of the tabs so they don't connect any more and you're done. No more middle clicking for you. I've looked at three scrolling wheel mice (one was optical) and they all worked the same.

      --

      Kurdt
      I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
    15. Re:Scroll wheel click by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      I love my Logitech MouseMan+Scroll
      two buttons + one middle button/scroll wheel, plus one button at the thumb, great when mapped to 'Back' for browsing the internet...

    16. Re:Scroll wheel click by bitMonster · · Score: 1
      Yes, I have the RF non-optical version of that mouse, and it rocks. I wish it were optical, too, but I bought it before that combo existed.

      Also it has that nice Logitech contour that I have grown accustomed too. I hate small mices.

    17. Re:Scroll wheel click by Blkdeath · · Score: 1
      While the scroll wheel is up there, and i do love it, I'd have to say microsoft's application menu (aka the "start button") is the most significant UI innovation in the last 10 years....

      I'll have to echo this poaster's sentiments, and add to it that OS/2 Warp had a "Start Menu" back in the early 90's, as did most of the window managers I can recall from that era.

      If you want to get technical, the graphical application menu is merely an extension of the age-old textual application menu concept that I've been using since the mid 80's or thereabouts.

      i mean think about it, for a new user, they see a button that says "START" on it.

      Have YOU ever had to tell a "new user" to click Start to Stop their computer?

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    18. Re:Scroll wheel click by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      -Have YOU ever had to tell a "new user" to click Start to Stop their computer?

      heh, i know it's a joke, but it's all in the marketing; instead of telling the user somthing using contradicting terms like "Start" and "Stop", you just say "to start to turn off your computer, click the start button, and then click the 'shut down' button, and follow the instructions from there"

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    19. Re:Scroll wheel click by Blkdeath · · Score: 1
      -Have YOU ever had to tell a "new user" to click Start to Stop their computer?

      heh, i know it's a joke, but ...

      Joke?!?

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

  11. Mouse Systems by storem · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mouse Systems was one of the original makers of optical mice, since back in the early 1980s, and made a nice simple & solid three-button optical mouse. Unfortunately they got bought out recently and the new owners, KYE International, are making the same two-button/scroll mice as everyone else.

    Here's a picture of the actual three-button optical mouse.

    --
    StarTrek.org Free Webmail
  12. Finer grained detents. by kinema · · Score: 1

    I've always liked the combo scrollwheel/middle button. I can scroll up and down in Konqueror and open links in new windows/tabs quickly.

    The one thing I would like is a finner grained detent on the wheel. Two to four time greater resolution would be nice. I'm not talking about the distance (number of lines) scrolled with each detent/click of the wheel. I want a greater number of clicks/detents per revolution of the actaul wheel.

    1. Re:Finer grained detents. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well now, this can be done... On most "el cheapo" scrolly mice, the detents are an exposed toothed wheel, that a plastic roller on a spring engages with. So, get that Dremel out and cut detents between the existing ones...

    2. Re:Finer grained detents. by uradu · · Score: 1

      > So, get that Dremel out and cut detents between the existing ones...

      Uh, NO! The scroll wheel turns a rotary encoder, either optical or mechanical, which, depending on design, can be almost impossible to modify to add more transitions per revolution. The physical detents that click the wheel into place have nothing to do with the actual electrical state transitions. Adding more detents will simply make your wheel click two or more times for each logical state transition.

    3. Re:Finer grained detents. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      On most of the ones I've seen that have fairly coarse detents, there are usually a couple of "states" between each detent. Obviously it wouldn't work for one state-per-detent.

  13. Three buttons are not enough by Kj0n · · Score: 1

    Since I have five fingers, a mouse should have five buttons.

    1. Re:Three buttons are not enough by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I used to have a tracker ball thing,

      4 buttons, and a ball you could move around with you thumb (like an upside down mouse).

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    2. Re:Three buttons are not enough by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

      Disagree. I like to be able to hold the damn thing without clicking one or more buttons by accident. Especially when I'm in a hurry, moving hand from mouse to keyboard to mouse etc...

      --Joe
      --
      Program Intellivision!
    3. Re:Three buttons are not enough by RoninBK · · Score: 1

      Currently using a Logitech 3-button trackball myself. It's nice when you use the computer next to your bed, and you don't have much for a desk. No mouse pads, no need to find a hard surface.

      I suppose a fourth button fo the pinky would work, but the I can't wrap it around the base to hold the thing standing up...

      But, alas, I'm weird

    4. Re:Three buttons are not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. I can't use the Microsoft Explorer mice for that reason. I keep clicking the right side button with my pinky.

    5. Re:Three buttons are not enough by Zathras11 · · Score: 0

      My Micro$oft Intellimou$e Optical has five
      buttons and a wheel (on the middle button).
      I own two and think they are the best mice
      around, and they work under Linux too!

    6. Re:Three buttons are not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS optical exporer, 4 buttons plus the scroll wheel which also acts as a button.

      the extra two buttons come bound as forward page and back page by default, but i prefer to use them as + and - for zooming on opera

    7. Re:Three buttons are not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I own one and the fucking right mouse button has a bouncy connection. One button press usually registered as anywhere from 1 to 10 clicks, so I had to exchange the switch with a side button switch that I never use.

  14. Real functionality for mouse buttons by James1980 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If a mouse is going to have numerous buttons, they need to have clear, discernable functionality within an OS. LMB = select, RMB = context, Scroll = move view. These make sense, but I'm not sure what else would, please feel free to enlighten me. Can anyone make a case for features that other mouse buttons could use? I'm not talking about customising buttons for starting file managers or browsers, as these are just shortcuts, but clear-cut functionality that help users navigate and operate withint the GUI metaphor.

    1. Re:Real functionality for mouse buttons by Mawbid · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Some kind of function to help with multiple selection could be good.

      I sometimes use the computer with the mouse only. The thing that makes me reach for the keyboard is usually a need press shift or ctrl to add files to a selection.

      Then again, the whole selection mechanism, as commonly implemented, is not perfect to begin with. Selections are too ephemeral. A single wayward click can undo all your selection work. A "toggle persistent selection" button in the UI would be a general improvement and solve my problem as a side effect.

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    2. Re:Real functionality for mouse buttons by rpeppe · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I use plan 9, and spend most of my time inside acme, which in my view has one of the nicest developer interfaces around.

      The mouse interface feels particularly natural once one is used to it and not only do all three buttons have distinct (and consistent) uses, combinations of buttons do too!

      • button 1 selects text.
      • button 2 selects text; it then executes the selected text as an editor command, or a shell command.
      • button 3 selects text; it then looks for that text: if it's a filename, it opens it in a new window, or moves to it if already open; otherwise it looks for the next occurrence of that text inside the current window.
      Note that acme is basically a text editor: everything in it (including the titlebars of the windows) contains editable text. There are no menus, buttons, widgets or icons. To delete a window, you middle-button click on the text "Del" (I could do it now on that text!). To paste some text from the cut&paste buffer, select the text to be replaced, and middle click on "Paste".

      For operations like cut & paste, that's a little time consuming so there are mouse short cuts, using mouse chords. If you've selected some text with button-1, before you let go of the button, you can click button-2 to cut the text, or button-3 to paste some text. (button-2 followed by button-3 leaves the text unchanged, just copied into the copy&paste buffer).

      This is immensely convenient - you can do without the keyboard for a great deal of editing work, shuffling pieces of code around, browsing looking for variable declarations, running compilations, etc, etc. Rather than having my hands always on the keyboard and occasionally moving to the mouse, I find my hand is always on the mouse, and only occasionally moves to the keyboard (to enter text! - exactly what the keyboard is for).

      Here's an example of a system that uses 3 mouse buttons in a completely consistent way to really leverage the expressive power of a mouse.

    3. Re:Real functionality for mouse buttons by Mprx · · Score: 1

      RiscOS solved this problem years ago, with the right mouse button "adjust" selecting items without closing the menu. It had a great UI for it's time, better than Windows and Mac.

    4. Re:Real functionality for mouse buttons by moncyb · · Score: 1

      In Mozilla, clicking a link with the middle button opens it up in a new tab. I find it quite convenient and use it often.

      With rxvt, xterm, and gpm the middle button is used to paste a selection, though I don't use the right button feature--click the start of a selection with the left, and the right marks the end of it. I just drag the left button or sometimes double click it to select a word.

      In fact, several X applications seem to use the middle button in a similar way. Nedit (a text editor) does. The textarea of Mozilla does too--just tried it out. Makes pasting much easier...

  15. Kensington MouseInABox by keesh · · Score: 1

    I have a Kensington MouseInABox. Optical, USB, four buttons plus clickable wheel, but the buttons can be mapped so that the wheel doesn't have to be button 3...

    1. Re:Kensington MouseInABox by Sloppy · · Score: 1
      I generally like Kensington mice and that's what I use at home. But they do have one problem: the buttons don't have quite enough resistance. You should be able to rest the entire weight of your hand on the mouse and fingers on the buttons, without any effort to hold your fingers up. I think this is what makes Unicomp and old IBM keyboards so perfect and the users so free of RSI.

      Alas, Kensington mice, despite their otherwise excellence, fail in this regard. And I haven't found a good alternative yet...

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  16. A4Tech by hummassa · · Score: 1

    Cheap mice, optical, 3 buttons + 2 non-clickable scroll wheels (I, personally can't live without the wheels). I have one wireless (IR) at the office and a normal (wired) one at home.

    I am not affiliated in any way with the company, just fan of their products.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  17. Re:A4Tech (or Hate Replying to Myself) by hummassa · · Score: 1

    here

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  18. Ask Slashdot by tiny69 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've got a stupid question. Instead of asking my friends what they think or doing a little research online, I'll post the question on Slashdot and see what the largest collection of wannabe geeks on the Internet think. When you flush the toilet in the Southern Hemisphere, which way does the water spin?

    --
    Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
    1. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey me too, I did a little research online for my problem but I couldn't find any horses that wanted to have sex

    2. Re:Ask Slashdot by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Same way it does in the Northern Hemisphere.

      The different direction of the water in either hemisphere is an urban myth -- the effect is too small to impact the thing when compared to the hydrodynamics of the toilet. Given an appropriate basin, drain, and water insertion device you can get the water to spin either way in either hemisphere.

      --
      May we never see th
    3. Re:Ask Slashdot by (trb001) · · Score: 1

      Oh please, if this isn't the largest collection of REAL geeks on the planet, I don't know what is...

      --trb

    4. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It definitely is. The problem is that geeks are quite different from the people that non-geeks come to expect them to be.

    5. Re:Ask Slashdot by decepty · · Score: 0

      It take a certain amount of geekiness to read /. much less post. Is there a "geek stereotype" -or- "what it takes to be a geek" thread? I think /. readers would have a field day debunking the generally accepted geek myths...

      --
      Be careful! Bears shouldn't consume large furry dogs.
    6. Re:Ask Slashdot by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that, at least in NZ and Australia, a flushed toilet doesn't ;'drain' as such, it's flushed.....a cistern full of water pushes the existing water down the pipes....

      So it doesn't spin at all.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
  19. My preferences by jarehart · · Score: 1

    I found, after getting a wheeled mouse at home, that I was trying to use the wheel by instinct on mice that were wheel-less. My solution was to disable support for scrolling with the wheel in X. The side effect of that is that the wheel then only behaves as the middle button (solving the middle click and scroll awkwardness).

    While optical mice are nice, I've also not seen any that are just three simple buttons. I was, about a year ago, able to find a plain three button non-optical PS/2 mouse. If it weren't dedicated to my old Tektronix Xterminal, I'd have it on my workstation. I've never looked for another one like it (too lazy).

    I've also tried the IntelliMouse Explorer style setup with thumb and pinky buttons. On those I just end up clicking by accident as I move the mouse around. So, again in X I don't bind the 4th and 5th buttons to anything, and I just hope I don't have to use those mice in Windows. :)

    Overall, my preference is for older real 3 button mice or for a two button plus wheel mouse with scrolling via the wheel disabled. Yeah, yeah, I'm strange... So what. :)

    1. Re:My preferences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am honestly suprised you managed to make the shift to computers at all.

    2. Re:My preferences by uradu · · Score: 1

      > I was trying to use the wheel by instinct on mice that were
      > wheel-less. My solution was to disable support for scrolling

      I guess the first thing you do after buying a new car is to disable ABS, power steering and braking, and the A/C. Because after all, you don't want to get used to features that might not be available in another car that you might drive someday. Sheesh...

    3. Re:My preferences by jarehart · · Score: 1

      Hehe... No, I live in Texas. A/C is a requirement. :)

  20. Sun by TRS-80 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sun makes 3-button opticial USB mice, and they ship with most of their new workstations. You could probably pick them up as spare parts, but they're probably fairly costly.

    1. Re:Sun by larien · · Score: 1
      Well, you can get it as part of the country kit for a Sun workstation. Online, it's priced at £37.12 (about $50). This will also give you a USB keyboard and a power lead.

      eBay might be a better option.

  21. One Button by lowmagnet · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I only need one button. Seriously. If I need another button, I'll hit command or control or option. That's four buttons and I get to keep one hand on the keyboard.

    --
    Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
    1. Re:One Button by cloak42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even when I use a Mac, I find that having a single button was a hindrance. I'm a guy who's big on shortcuts, so consequently I did a lot of my navigation in Mac OS by using nothing more than keyboard commands (I loved being able to type the name of a folder or file and get it selected, then to expand all trees by hitting Shift-Command-Right Arrow, or collapse). But I always wanted that same kind of ease-of-use with the mouse as well. I always felt that you should be able to navigate solely by using the mouse or keyboard alone.

      The idea of context menus was something I was very happy with when I started using PCs. I was very glad when Apple decided to include context menus in OS9, but I was angry that you couldn't use a two-button mouse to accomplish that. What's the point of having context menus if you have to hit Command-Click to use them?

    2. Re:One Button by lowmagnet · · Score: 0

      Beside context menus fitting the closest location to the mouse, I find they superfluous and utterly useless 99% of the time. Most context menus bits are 'cut, paste, copy, undo' and essentially waste the user's time. Even in browsers, they are a bit of a waste. In Safari (depending on having tabs turned on or not, and depending on how your tabs are set-up) you can either 'right-click' and get the context menu with 'open in new tab', 'open', etc. or you can hold combinations of modifiers and execute a single click. Cut and paste, mentioned above, are easier to accomplish with a left-handed sequence. That's the reason for putting them under zxcv! Now, this may not be perfect for the minority of users using their left hands to mouse (because I know many left-handed people who their right hand for mousing) but there is always the context menu!

      --
      Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
    3. Re:One Button by edmo · · Score: 1

      I assume by contextual menus you mean that little menu next to the curser that has options like open or create archive?
      OS X has native multi button support, including scroll wheel and 3rd button, and in classic most companies make an extension for their mouse that lets you add multi button functionality to the finder

      To address the original question thow, I also find the scroll wheel to be clunky, useful, but clunky. I however found the Kensington wireless studio mouse which has a 3rd middle button and a touch sensitive scroll pad(something like a mini track pad). It eliminates the chunkiness of a scroll wheel, but leaves the functionality intact. Their wired version features the same button layout, if you don't like the freedom of wireless.

      --
      Don't save your orgasms for Heaven; Heaven knows we need them here.
    4. Re:One Button by cloak42 · · Score: 1

      OS X has native multi button support, including scroll wheel and 3rd button, and in classic most companies make an extension for their mouse that lets you add multi button functionality to the finder

      I should have mentioned this. Yes, OSX does indeed have multi-button support built-in (it was based on Unix; why wouldn't, it, right?). But unfortunately when I was in college and working with a multi-button mouse on our school newspaper, we couldn't use that third-party utility in OS9 (couldn't use OSX because our publishing software didn't support it) because it crashed our system. Why Apple couldn't have written support for multiple buttons into its system directly, though, I have no idea, especially because the signals sent from a mouse are standardized and thus easy to work with from a coding perspective.

  22. www.logitech.com by Bishop · · Score: 1

    We didn't look very hard did we?

    www.logitech.com

    MX700: 7 buttons with scroll, wireless, and optical. All the features that you don't need in one small package.

  23. Hoarding Mice by edward.virtually@pob · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    As you can tell from the other comments, most lusers like Microsoft's scroll wheel abomination. Of course, lots of them like MS's Unnatural Keyboard too so you know they're idiots. I'm still using the three button non-optical Logitech mouse I bought in 2000 and I have a backup waiting in the box in case I need a replacement. What really worries me is what I'm going to do when my IBM PC AT keyboard wears out and I'm forced to buy one of the 'Windows enhanced' pieces of shit they make now or shell out $100 or so for a Happy Hacking or other real keyboard. In short, you're probably SOL on the mouse because the Masses are Asses and that's who the vendors cater to. Your best bet is probably to do like the commenter who disabled the scrolling function. Always remember: If you like something, buy a lot of it because they'll stop making it.

    1. Re:Hoarding Mice by sepluv · · Score: 1
      How is that flamebait? It has lots of very good points and is soo true. Mod Parent +5 Insightful.

      /. in summary: Really insightful: get modded down. Pander to the /. masses (with a content-free troll or something that states the obvious or your opinions with no argument to back up): get modded up.

      (Yes this is flamebait. ;-) )

      --
      Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
      [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
    2. Re:Hoarding Mice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's flamebait because he starts off calling most people "lusers," declares the scroll wheel to be an "abomination," slants the MS Natural Keyboard by calling it "unnatural," and declares that since people buy them, they must be idiots. Then he starts to make a rational post, but goes awry again when he complains about "'Windows enhanced' pieces of shit." He then declares that he doesn't want to pay more for a higher quality product. And as if the initial insults weren't enough, he uses the phrase "Masses are Asses." He then agrees with someone else, and then finishes up with an ever-so-slightly insightful comment.

      So you see, your own theory is wrong. It was a content-free troll, it stated the obvious, and it stated his opinions with no argument to back it up. And he got modded down. I'm posting this anonymously because I admit it's off-topic. He/She (she on slashdot? feh!) needs to realize that it is possible to make a statement without using a barrage of insults.

    3. Re:Hoarding Mice by Rysc · · Score: 1

      It's flamebait because he starts off calling most people "lusers," declares the scroll wheel to be an "abomination," slants the MS Natural Keyboard by calling it "unnatural," and declares that since people buy them, they must be idiots.

      Um... not to be rude, but I don't see your point. That most people are lusers is somewhat debatable, but the scroll wheel IS an abomination (I'd kill for an optical 3-button no-scrollwheel mouse!) the so-called "natural" keyboard IS unnatural, and people who buy them may not be idiots, but those who LIKE them certainly are. So far nothing he's said has been particularly harsh or uncalled for.

      Then he starts to make a rational post, but goes awry again when he complains about "'Windows enhanced' pieces of shit." ...which they are...

      He then declares that he doesn't want to pay more for a higher quality product.

      It's not "higher quality:" it's "more useless 'features' which hinder productivity"

      And as if the initial insults weren't enough, he uses the phrase "Masses are Asses." He then agrees with someone else, and then finishes up with an ever-so-slightly insightful comment.

      Listen closely... the 'needs' of the general masses are shaping what computer products get produced. These people are (largely) not computer-obsessed enough to appreciate how detrimental some of their preferences would be to the rest of us. This would be fine (to each his own) except that hardware manufacturers, seeing the massive market, DROP THEIR OTHER PRODUCTS. This forces the computer-obsessed to use consumer-grade crap, or pay lots extra for specially-made standard hardware.

      A certain bitterness at the masses of computer-adjacent morons that changed the world from a "Mice I use are cheap and easy to find" place to a "I must pay lots of money for a mouse even close to ideal" kind of place is understandable.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    4. Re:Hoarding Mice by RoninBK · · Score: 1

      Here's a thought. The local Goodwill store has plenty of old keyboards, you could probably pick one up for around five to ten bucks. Most of them still work, the former owners probably upgraded to one of those WinEnhanced boards. If not, you're only out ten bucks at most. You might not find anything USB or later, but you should find a bench-warmer or two for your good old IBM PC AT

    5. Re:Hoarding Mice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, sir, are a worthless elitest. My Windows keyboard works great under linux, and I can use that Windows key to pop up the menu. Also, what is wrong with the Mcirosoft scroll wheel "abomination." The scroll wheel is great, it doesn't take much room at all and gives the mouse a lot more functionality.
      You need to chill out. I don't have a "Natural Keyboard," but I don't go and rag on them for no fucking reason.
      Go fuck yourself to hell.

    6. Re:Hoarding Mice by edward.virtually@pob · · Score: 1

      And you, sir, are a cowardly moron. I did not SAY Windows keyboards don't work under Linux. I said the Windows Natural keyboard was unnatural and it is. Regarding the insipid "Windows" keys, there are already enough bucky bits with shift, control, and alt and their combinations. The Windows keys are unnecessary unoriginal imitations of the Apple keys on various Macintoshes (which do or at least did need them because they didn't have alt). They're stupid, but they can be turned into Tux keys and/or ignored so I don't really care about them. The real annoyance of modern average keyboards, beyond their typically mushy feel, is the number of extra keys they insist on including in addition to the Windows keys. What's wrong with the scroll wheel is that it makes a poor middle button as other posters have mentioned and some of us use that button and have since before the scroll wheel existed. Whatever my faults, at least I don't hide behind the Anonymous Coward account. Drop dead.

  24. Is it THAT much of a slow news day? by Confessed+Geek · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else think that mice are a clunky replacement for the track ball? Mice are supposed to have a trackball, right? It was such an improvement when the 5 button optical trackballs w/ scroll started appearing for PC hardware, but I'm wondering, why would anyone want to use anything else?

    --End missquote
    Self absorb much? Your working on some serious assumptions and opinions that you are taking as facts. Why is this a front page item?

  25. Logitech MX300 by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 1

    My Logitech MX300 has a button which is supposed to act as a task switcher. Under the Linux mouse drivers I'm using, it acts as a middle mouse button. Also, there was some older hardware I've found that had the old Mouse Systems three button mice (Sun's Type 4 mouse) in a serial configuration with an AC adapter powering the LEDs. You'd need the special mouse pad for it, but that too is optical. :)

    Quite frankly, I'm overjoyed that PCs now come standard with scrollwheel mice that can be used as a three button mouse. I'm glad I won't ever have to remember how to chord again. :)

  26. efficiency by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2, Informative
    I find a mouse wheel to be 1000% more efficient than having to move the mouse over and drag a clumsy scrollbar. And of course, wheels also act as a button when pressing straight down. Yes, it's more difficult to press than a normal button, but not too much, and that's why it is relegated to tasks done less frequently and more deliberately.

    FWIW, I used to prefer a 3 button mouse over a mouse w/wheel, until I actually started using them.

    Of course, YMMV.

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:efficiency by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      > I find a mouse wheel to be 1000% more efficient than having to move the mouse over and drag a clumsy scrollbar.

      Ever tried arrow keys (or pgup/pgdn/home/end) for scrolling the page? I find the most efficient way of surfing (and some other computing tasks) is using the keyboard and the mouse together. I use my left hand for the mouse, and the right for the keyb. And yes, I prefer a three button mouse.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  27. I've got one by Apreche · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have the Logitech cordless freedom keyboard and mouse pair. The mouse is the Cordless Mouseman Optical. I got it because it has a third button. A thumb button! I also hate clicking the scroll wheel, but I like scrolling the scroll wheel. The mouse is perfect in every way, I've even made it work in linux and windows. I highly reccomend it.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  28. How the hell.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ..can you 'accidently' click on a wheel/button?

    Christ, no wonder the lot of you have RSI.

    Here's a tip - Don't hang on to your mouse for dear life. It isn't going anywhere.

  29. The best mouse ever! by Kadagan+AU · · Score: 1

    Ok, I'm actually going to not flame you. Everyone else did a good enough job of that ;-). I've found my favorite mouse in the whole world, it's the IBM optical scroll point mouse. This mouse has 800 dpi percision, 3 buttons, and a scroll point that does 360 degree scrolling without having to keep cranking a wheel. It's incredible, and it's comfortable too. The scroll point glows a cool blue color too ;)

    .:Jon:.

    --
    This space for rent, inquire within.
    1. Re:The best mouse ever! by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      That looks cool, but why did they have to go and give it that "ergonomic" shape? Does the person who designes these things really think that it's good to keep the palm of your hand all curled like that all the time?

    2. Re:The best mouse ever! by Matthew+Bafford · · Score: 1

      Ugh.

      I had one of those scroll point mice at work, and I totally hated it. I found it impossible to scroll with any amount of precision - it was always either too fast (the end of the document already!), or too slow (are we moving?).

      This was an older balled mouse, so maybe it's gotten better...

      -y

    3. Re:The best mouse ever! by repetty · · Score: 1

      "...it's comfortable too."

      I'll bet it is. As long as you're right handed.

    4. Re:The best mouse ever! by Kadagan+AU · · Score: 1

      Good point. I'm right handed, so I never really thought about lefty's. I dated a lefty, and she used her right hand forher mouse still, so she had no problem with it. I suppose for not-so-right-handed-people, it might not be all that comfortable. Sorry.

      --
      This space for rent, inquire within.
  30. But more importantly... by n-baxley · · Score: 1

    Which finger do you use to click the middle button? Me I use the index finger and move it back and forth between the left button and the scroll wheel how about you? I use the middle finger for right clicking, is it out of habit? Is there a new breed of mouse users that grew up with three buttons and so use the index, middle AND ring finger for clicking? A single finger for each button? Is there grant money available to research this? Is it possible to create a /. post entirely out of questions? No.

    --

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
    1. Re:But more importantly... by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

      I vary between which fingers I use on a mouse. I always use my index finger to left click (does anyone vary this?). On the two MS Wheel mice (mouses?) i have, I use my middle finger for the wheel and my third finger for the right button. On my Intellimouse Optical i frequently use my middle finger to right click and then move it over to use the wheel. I feel odd when using a mouse with no wheel, and I feel totally lost on one button mice (dammit apple there are NOTHING good about these!!!)

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    2. Re:But more importantly... by Ender_Stonebender · · Score: 1

      Which finger do you use to click the middle button?

      Middle finger, middle button.

      Me I use the index finger and move it back and forth between the left button and the scroll wheel how about you?

      When forced to use one of those stupid scroll wheel mice, I use the middle finger for scrolling and right clicking. Just personal preference, YMMV.

      I use the middle finger for right clicking, is it out of habit?

      If you're using a three-button, it's either out of habit or having a mouse that's too narrow.

      Is there a new breed of mouse users that grew up with three buttons and so use the index, middle AND ring finger for clicking?

      No, it's an old breed of mouse users that grew up using the early Logitech MouseMan.

      A single finger for each button?

      Yup. MouseMan classic again ' same design as the early cordless and WingMan Gaming mouse - all sadly discontinued.

      Is there grant money available to research this?

      Probably. You can get grant money for just about anything if you know the right people.

      Is it possible to create a /. post entirely out of questions?

      Absolutely. You're just too stupid to do it.

      --
      Loose things are easy to lose. You're getting your hair cut. They're going there to see their aunt.
    3. Re:But more importantly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it possible to create a /. post entirely out of questions? I think it is, don't you agree?

  31. Sigh by jazman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lots of replies of the form "But I always need my scrolly button so you must be stupid."

    I have eight Logitech three button mice. I like them a lot. I reprogram the middle button to double-click, because I don't like RSI and I think the double-click idea really sucks. I use the keyboard 95% of the time and only reach for the mouse when some lazy application programmer couldn't be arsed to take the 5 microseconds needed to put a keyboard shortcut in for a specific function.

    I hate the scrolly wheel. I don't want a scrolly wheel. Yes I know they can be clicked, but they are designed to be scrolled, not clicked, so the click spring is much stronger than the spring on the other two buttons. Besides, you can scroll with the keyboard (or at least you will be able to when Mozilla works out that the currently selected tab is the one that should have the keyboard focus, not the one that's just finished loading). I'm not saying YOU, dear Reader, need to, just that I do, and I don't want to be reaching for the mouse when I can move my fingers to the up/down keys.

    So, I personally can guarantee a market of eight optical three button mice for Logitech when they come out at a decent price. Oh, I had a look at the MX700. It's a fucking air traffic control centre that needs at least 23 people to operate. OVERKILL, people! I want an OPTICAL version of my three button mouseman, that's all. And the MX700 costs about $90. I'm NOT buying eight of those. (if you're wondering, 8=3 at work+3 at home+2 spare. Yes, I really like them a lot. Every time I get a computer with a mouse with a clitoris I replace it with a 3BMM.) Three button mousemen are currently going for about $25 in the UK. I'd pay $40 for an optical version, cos I'm bored with cleaning dirty balls and rollers. But I'm not going to buy ANYTHING that has a scrolly wheel on; I'd rather stick with my current mice.

    So if anyone's with me, mod me up, and someone pass a reference to this article to Logitech.

    1. Re:Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Logitech Dual Optical that I use has a scroll wheel, but also a thumb button (which is set by default to be the "back" button.) Best of both worlds, if you ask me... and great optical precision as well.

    2. Re:Sigh by Moloch666 · · Score: 1

      I've heard nothing but good things about the MX700, but I would actually recomend the MX300. It's definately the best mouse I have ever used.

      --
      Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
  32. Simple mouse mod by Hungus · · Score: 4, Informative
    Why not just mod a wheeled mouse? The steps would be simple enough.

    Parts Needed:

    3 button optical mouse with wheel

    Set of screwdrivers (prolly just need a #0 and #1 phillips)

    X-Acto Knife

    McDonald's Straw - I am not sure if other straws will work it needs to be thermo softening while being thick enough for wear and pliable enough for use.

    Personal flamethrower or lighter or soldering iron

    krazy glue

    about 30 minutes of your time.

    Heres how to do it:

    1. With the X-Acto knife make a faint score on the mouse wheel along the profile where it sticks out of the mouse
    2. Remove mouse cover (typically by removing 2 screws maybe 3 in your case)
    3. carefully remove the screw holding the circut board to the upper mouse casing
    4. Remove the wheel and action spring noting how they were installed.
    5. Trim the mouse wheel with the X-Acto knife so that it is almost flush with the mouse case (using your earlier score) - Nice thing here is you have 3 chances if you mess up at first because you can just rotate the wheel 120 degrees and have a fresh surface!
    6. Cut the straw latterally so as to be able to lay it flat and cut a section off which is approximately 35% longer than the exposesed mouse wheel opening in the upper shell of the mouse
    7. Heat the straw fragment (dont burn it) until it lays almost flat on your work surface (you do still want some curve)
    8. place the mouse wheel back on the curcuit board with the flattened side up (away from the board
    9. place the now flattened straw fragment over teh mouse wheel centering it.
    10. once you have things the way you want them remove the upper cover again and the trimmed straw fragment
    11. place a single tiny drop of krazy glue on the former wheel and immediately recenter the star fragment on it
    12. wait a few minutes as the off gas of the glue will cloud the optics of your mouse if you re-assembled immediately.
    13. Re-assemble the mouse and you now have a 3 button no wheel mouse!
    Congratulations!
    --
    Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
    1. Re:Simple mouse mod by Rysc · · Score: 1

      "13. Re-assemble the mouse and you now have a 3 button no wheel mouse!" ...with a really, really small middle button. No thanks.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
  33. Re: MX700 by sunryder · · Score: 1

    I have the MX700 and it absolutely rules. The back/forward buttons are great and the rechargeable batteries last *forever*. It even runs under RH8. The size and shape of the mouse take some getting use to though. And lefties need not apply.

  34. Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by xagon7 · · Score: 1

    I generally set the midle button wheel to the Backspace key, it EASILY allows you to go "back" in pretty much any browser. I have a logitech mouse, and use Phoenix (er um Firebird) and it doesn't feel clunky in the least.

    1. Re:Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

      Why? Why not just right click anywhere that isn't a link and release over 'Back' in the context menu? 'Back' is usually right under the mouse pointer, making it a very quick operation, freeing up the middle click for other purposes.

      Or do you use IE, which has the annoying habit of realigning you to the bottom of the context popup if you are too close to the bottom of the window?

      --Joe
      --
      Program Intellivision!
    2. Re:Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by xagon7 · · Score: 1

      Because with the middle mouse button I don't have to navigate, don't have to look, and don't have to avoid jack. Just push, and BAM, like Emeril.

    3. Re:Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

      I guess it makes some amount of sense. I personally like the "paste URL and load it" functionality that the middle mouse button has with Mozilla under X. Or, if you middle-click on a link, it opens the link in a new tab -- even better. I miss that behavior under MS Windows. I'm not likely to remap the mmb to 'back' on either platform. I do see your reasons for it though.

      --Joe
      --
      Program Intellivision!
    4. Re:Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by John+Murray · · Score: 1

      Unless it's one of thoose sites that has the right click blocked. Insted of a contaxt menu you get a anonyoing meesage box.

      But my 5-button mouse has the 2 side buttons maped to forward and back.

    5. Re:Hnady dandy tip wile on the subject by Mr+Z · · Score: 1
      Unless it's one of thoose sites that has the right click blocked. Insted of a contaxt menu you get a anonyoing meesage box.

      Fortunately, those sites are rare (at least in my browsing). I tend not to re-visit sites that have obnoxious Javascript like that. The only ones I've really noticed that do that are porn sites anyway. And wget works wonders, not that I'd know anything about that[*].... ;-)

      --Joe

      [*] Tongue planted firmly in cheek.

      --
      Program Intellivision!
  35. FPS without a scroll wheel? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Informative

    oh god the painful thoughts...

    Next weapon - mwheelup
    Prev weapon - mwheeldown

    And I have no problem using the middle button for alt fire in UT and Q3A mods that have altfire weapons. (Or otherwise for zooming).

    Just get a GOOD scrollwheel that has good click action in the wheel (i.e. it's hard to accidentally scroll it.)

    Any optical with a wheel made by MS or Logitech usually has a pretty good scrollwheel. I've used both brands (IM Explorer, classic IMs, and a cheapo Logitech non-MX optical), and all of them have good scrollwheels.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:FPS without a scroll wheel? by Cutriss · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ about Logitech mice. Historically I've loved Logitech mice (I'm using a Trackman Marble FX right now, and my other system has a Marble T-op)...and those are great...but the MouseMan line has a distinct issue with their scrollwheels. I can sit there with my girlfriend's MouseMan and scroll down a page of Slashdot moving the wheel back and forth one position in each direction. What would happen is that I'd scroll the wheel down once, and it'd double-scroll, and then I'd move the wheel back up, and it'd only go once, or sometimes not at all. The scroll distance is variable (sometimes three lines of text, sometimes half the line of the page...), sometimes it doesn't register a scroll...sometimes it registers twice.

      And this isn't just her mouse. It's *every* MouseMan from the last five years that I've tried (amounting to about fifteen of them or so).

      I find the wheels on the MS mice to be much more accurate and tactile, personally.

      --
      "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
  36. How about a thumbwheel? by Lurch00 · · Score: 1

    I too prefer a full size button to the down position of the scroll wheel. I still haven't found one that I don't often scroll-and-click when I want to just click or accidentally click when I want to scroll. I do like the wheel once in a while though. Is anybody making a mouse with the wheel in the thumb position? I've seen buttons there, but no wheels. I don't care if its optical or not, ball mice treat me just fine..

    1. Re:How about a thumbwheel? by AlgebraicSpore · · Score: 1

      I know logitech makes a mouse with a full track ball in the thumb position. I have not use it though so I could not comment on how good it is, but I asume if it can not be configured automaticly to act as a scroll wheel that the drivers would not be overly difficult to create.

  37. IBM by GiMP · · Score: 3, Informative

    IBM makes a 3 button no-wheel optical mouse. Try looking yourself next time.

    1. Re:IBM by V.+Mole · · Score: 1

      Link, please. I just looked on www.ibm.com->products->accessories->mice, and there were no plain 3-button mice, optical or otherwise.

    2. Re:IBM by proclus · · Score: 1
      How about a link? BTW, of course I looked for myself first, as did many of my friends, but the field is spamped with clunky scroll wheels! We actually looked for a long time, but found nothing. That is the reason for the Slashdot post.

      Regards,
      proclus
      http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

    3. Re:IBM by Hungus · · Score: 1

      IBM 3 button no wheel optical mousehere are the specs for it. You can also find out where to buy it from the same site.

      Shamless self plug Though i do still think my mouse mod would work also and of course you could make the button any size by using a different wear media I just love finding uses for McD's straws since they saved my butt on teh road one time .. well straws and some gum anways.

      --
      Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
    4. Re:IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey stoopidhead,
      That's not a three-button mouse. The third "button" is in fact a scroll point.

    5. Re:IBM by GiMP · · Score: 1

      I've seen it in CompUSA.. but I could look for a link..

    6. Re:IBM by V.+Mole · · Score: 1

      Ah, probably old stock of a discontinued model. Don't bother...

  38. Can I? by OppressiveGiant · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I just got 5 mod points, can I use them all to mod down this article?

    --
    i could not think of anything clever.
  39. wrong and wrong by tolldog · · Score: 2, Informative

    All the artists I know hate the scroll wheel. They want 3 button mice.

    Some software apps use all three buttons and combinations of them and keys to do things.

    When its button 1 and 2 with a scroll wheel, all day long, it gets uncomfortable.

    -Tim

    --
    -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
    1. Re:wrong and wrong by retardedtimmah · · Score: 1

      aLL? i would use that word more judiciously, friend. Overgeneralization is for the weak-minded. PEACE

      --
      Drugs have taught an entire generation of American children the metric system.
    2. Re:wrong and wrong by tolldog · · Score: 1

      I said know. Not know of.

      All the artists I know... as in personally. The ones I have worked with.

      I chose my words cautiously.

      -Tim

      --
      -I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
  40. Nope. by V.+Mole · · Score: 1

    And once again it's got the fsking scroll wheels right where there should be a button. ONLY a button.

    It's great that all you folk out there like your scroll wheels. I've no desire to take them away from you. But I've been up and down the rows at the various stores, and I've STFW, and real three-button mouse have become pretty much impossible to find at a reasonable price - for the very obvious reason that MS Windows supports wheelies and doesn't have any use for the third button.

    Oh, and by real I mean one that shaped more-or-less like a standard mouse, and has three equal-size, equal-height, equal-effort buttons at the top front, where I can press them. No scrolly wheel, no side buttons, no fancy software. Under $30 would be nice.

  41. press down your scoll wheel by Sarreq+Teryx · · Score: 1

    that would be your third mouse button

  42. Optical as in opto-mechanical? by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    Almost all the old mice were "optical" too, they used plastic rollers on the balls which sensed movement with LEDs... optically.

  43. Re:THe past 10 years????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you serious?
    Maybe you meant "the scroll wheel is a pretty
    nice addition to mouse functionality, like
    trackballs,ibm eraser stick and touchpads, I like them".
    Say now wasn't that a little more restrained.
    I'd have to say that the mouse itself, while a nice
    addition to certain UI functions has also has
    caused alot of bad UI designs also. If I have to
    take my hands off of the keyboard, only for the
    purpose of selecting something that I then type in,
    i'll go insane. No too late.

  44. Cut and paste! by infernalC · · Score: 1

    Cut and paste. Click is better than click-ctrl-v or click-meta-v or click shft-ins.

    I thought this was what MMB was always for.

  45. Even more confusing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kensington StudioMouse - optical, three button, with a touch pad where the scrollwheel would be, the third button is just below that. The thing I hate about it is the fact that I have to press really hard on the touch pad to get it to work - I usually just end up using my finger nail and that works pretty well but to use just the pad of your finger, you have to press pretty hard. The touch pad is mapped in such a way that if you press hard at the extreme top and bottom of it, it will scroll through an entire document. I haven't programmed the third button to do anything yet.

  46. "But wheelies make us so happ-" *SMACK!* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I too would like a non-mechanical mouse with exactly three buttons, on top and not beneath a fucking wheel. (Wheellessness is not negotiable.) I bought a pack of 9 OEM "Logitech MouseMan"s a few years ago (at USD9 each), because the were getting hard to find. But, they age and optical wouldn't age as quickly.

    Sun's old mice were optical and 3-buttoned, but the resolution was poor (at least in comparison to mechanical or PS2 optical mice) and the shape was not very comfortable.

    I'd kill for a good 3-button, non-mechanical, wheelless, PS2 or USB mouse. In fact, I'd kill for even less than that -- namely hearing "but wheelies are so nice" -- but that killing would be just for fun.

    If you find one, let me know.

  47. 3d work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some programs, like Alias|Wavefront Maya, require a third button. Unlike the previous poster who claimed he used the third button "extensively" in Mozilla (come on, how many times could he possibly use it?), in Maya the third button is required for panning and zooming. The scroll wheel is NOT acceptable, and it becomes rather uncomfortable after a few hours. Sure, I could get a five button mouse and just remap one of the buttons, but I'd just like to find a nice three button mouse so then I don't have to rewire all the years of muscle memory. Most people don't want an optical 3-button mouse, but I (and the original poster) do. I'm not demanding that Logitech build a custom mouse for us; I'd just like to know if one already exists.

  48. Liar! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A "a mouse stick to control scrolling". What the fucking hell is that shit?!

  49. Kensington by eric2hill · · Score: 1

    Kensington has this little wireless gem that seems to have no scroll wheel. Their text talks about scrolling though...

    --
    LOAD "SIG",8,1
    LOADING...
    READY.
    RUN
  50. MouseMan+? by Piquan · · Score: 1

    How about the Logitech, and remap the thumb button?

  51. Or the Kensington StudioMouse by NSObject · · Score: 1

    It has three buttons and a scroll slider instead of a wheel (which may also act as a button).

    More at their site, plus a few more details in their sales sheet (pdf).

    (On some Kensington models, the third button doesn't do anything without the drivers. Not sure about the StudioMouse).

  52. Re:Is it THAT much of a slow news day? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

    I started out with a trackball, as my desk didn' really have room for a trackball. Now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I not only use one at home, I have one for work as well. Not only does it make scrolling (horizontal, as well as vertical) easy, I never have to worry about repositioning it, or bumping into anything. For me, a mouse is just a poor substitute for a proper pointing device.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
  53. tackhammer by 56ksucks · · Score: 1

    Someone needs to come pop you in the head with a tack hammer because you are a retard. Why was something like this allowed to post?

    --

    ---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"

  54. "Supposed" to have by OpenYourEyes · · Score: 1

    Mice are supposed to have three buttons, right?

    Well, yes and no.

    The first mouse had zero buttons. Later refinements from the NLS team added three buttons to the mouse, however. The mouse was originally supposed to have a chording keyboard for the other hand which could have multiple uses.

    See a history in pictures from Douglas Engelbart's Bootstrap Alliance for details and more info.

  55. Re: MX700 by Moloch666 · · Score: 1

    I cheaper alternative is the MX300. It uses the same optical technology, which BTW is superior to their dual optical. The MX300 is the traditional left or right handed shape. I find it extremely comfortable. It may be a problem with people that have very large hands.

    --
    Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
  56. Wheel-as-button has its limitations by robson · · Score: 1

    I use Maya on a Win2k box at work, and I found it unreasonably difficult to use with a regular wheel mouse. I ended up getting an old-school Logitech 3-button ball mouse. The problem is that in Maya, you're constantly holding down various combinations of the 3 mouse buttons to zoom, pan, and rotate the 3d views. (This interaction scheme was developed on the SGI, which presumed a traditional 3-button mouse.)

    While the wheel is a great feature, it isn't suitable for applications which require the third button to be held down for extended periods (rather than just *clicked*.)

  57. Best mouse ever. by soupforare · · Score: 1

    The IBM Optical Navigator + IBM Model M Keyboard = Auto-Erotic Inputting

    --
    --- Do you believe in the day?
  58. Everything old is new again by OpenYourEyes · · Score: 1

    And then... while looking for something unrelated, I ran into this:
    StupidaMouse by StupidaWorks.

    Looks like someone has modernized the original mouse designs and found a new marketing niche for it.

  59. no wheel for me by mieses · · Score: 1

    the wheel is uncomfortable for clicking or any frequent use as a button. a middle mouse button is critical in in apps like Maya and useful for quick pasting in shell windows.

    this mouse is not optical and it's not cheap. but the pricing ($90-$140) shows how rare good 3 button mice have become.

  60. mitsumi optical scroll mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the scroll wheel isnt so much a wheel as it is a toggle. theyre usually pretty cheap too, around $12 or so

  61. Re:Um... An Ode to Guspaz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In all my letters, I try harder than anything else to make myself clear. I try to state things as simply and unambiguously as I can, because I find that that's the best way to convince my readers that outrage pounded in my temples when I first realized that Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester wants to annihilate a person's personality, individuality, will, and character. What follows is a series of remarks addressed to the readers of this letter and to Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester himself.

    His maudlin, kissy-pooh, feel-good, touchy-feely agendas are actually quite primitive when you look at them a bit closer. That's clear. But his claim that black is white and night is day is factually unsupported and politically motivated. This seems so obvious, I am amazed there is even any discussion about it. The biggest difference between me and Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester is that Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester wants to trample over the very freedoms and rights that he claims to support. I, on the other hand, want to report as best as possible the facts and circumstances surrounding his jaundiced intimations.

    Given the range and unpredictability of human behavior, it is quite possible that he shouldn't make higher education accessible only to those in the higher echelons of society. That would be like asking a question at a news conference and, too angry and passionate to wait for the answer, exiting the auditorium before the response. Both of those actions take us over the edge of the abyss of sadism. Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester wants me to stop trying to lay out some ideas and interpretations that hold the potential for insight. Instead, he'd rather I have an identity crisis. Sorry, but I don't accept defeat that easily.

    If he can give us all a succinct and infallible argument proving that he is known for his sound judgment, unerring foresight, and sagacious adaptation of means to ends, I will personally deliver his Nobel Prize for Crafty Rhetoric. In the meantime, Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester's threats reek of stoicism. I use the word "reek", because if you look soberly and carefully at the evidence all around you, you will truly find that Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester's shock troops argue that his sound bites are our final line of defense against tyrrany. These are the same heinous con artists who drive us into a state of apoplexy. This is no coincidence; none of what Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester says carries any weight. Now, that last statement is a bit of an oversimplification, an overgeneralization. But it is nevertheless substantially true. Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester plans to rely on the psychological effects of terror to magnify the localized effects of his witticisms so that, like a stone hurled into a pool of water, shock waves ripple from the epicenter of Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester's attacks to the furthest reaches of the Earth. He has instructed his trucklers not to discuss this or even admit to his plan's existence. Obviously, Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester knows he has something to hide.

    His reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, he always begins an argument with his conclusion (e.g., that the cure for evil is more evil) and therefore -- not surprisingly -- he always arrives at that very conclusion. There are no two ways about it; it would be downright lazy for Guspaz The Buttfucking Ass Philandering Child Molester to foster suspicion -- if not hatred -- of "outsiders". We can therefore extrapolate that given the amount of misinformation that he is circulating, I must point out that his goals symbolize lawlessness, violence, and misguided rebellion -- extreme liberty for a few, even if the rest of us lose more than a little freedom. A study of the most contemptuous carpetbaggers you'll ever

  62. Re:Is it THAT much of a slow news day? by Confessed+Geek · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure if that is a joke on my post, or a recomendation for trackballs.

    If it is the former, well played. If the latter, your preaching to the choir ;) I can make do with a mouse but have fallen in love with the trackball :)