Slashdot Mirror
Slashback: Australia, Nomenclature, Books
Please, no more name changing. suqur writes "As a follow-up to many stories previously posted, News.com reports that the recently renamed Mozilla Firebird browser (previously known as Phoenix) has finally given up on its new name, and relinquished the name. The new names for the Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird will be Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail, respectively. Looks like they're right back where they started, eh?"
Whatever the name, Mozilla is still only almost perfect: GeekLife.com writes "An old Mozilla exploit continues to crash almost any version/flavor of Mozilla with just 5 lines of plain HTML code (no JavaScript, ActiveX, etc.). If you're very brave, you can test/crash your Mozilla by going here.
It's important to report fairly on issues like this, or people will come to think of the Open Source journals as biased, uninformative, irresponsible propaganda machines, which will greatly harm any legitimate cause that the OS folks are promoting."
Books to download, at varying prices. Scott Pendergrast writes "We're working here at Fictionwise to convince publishers to release Neal Stephenson's works as eBooks. Recently his Cryptonomicon work finally became available in Secure Microsoft and Palm Reader formats (yes, the irony of this title being sold in an encrypted format is not missed ;-)
To encourage sales of this title, which hopefully will result in more of his works becoming ebooks, we're offering a 50% micropay rebate on it (so we're actually losing a bit on each sale)."
If you like your books free and non-fiction, though, mindpixel writes "I am not lying. The National Academies Press which was created by the National Academies to publish the reports issued by the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, the Institute of Medicine, and the National Research Council, all operating under a charter granted by the Congress of the United States, has more than 2,500 free, searchable, high quality books online. Some random examples:
- The Genomic Revolution: Unveiling the Unity of Life
- Strange Matters: Undiscovered Ideas at the Frontiers of Space and Time
- Who Goes There?: Authentication Through the Lens of Privacy
- Microbial Threats to Health: Emergence, Detection, and Response"
This ought to be tax-deductable, too! ThreeToe writes "Recently the RIAA settled a lawsuit with four college students; one of them was Daniel Peng of Princeton University. Daniel is accepting donations to help pay his $15,000 settlement fee along with related legal fees. You can send money via paypal by clicking here. Remember that Daniel simply wrote an MP3 search engine; he didn't distribute MP3s himself. Those who share my belief that this lawsuit was wrong-headed should make a statement by assisting Daniel."
That will simply encourage them. If it were me being sued, I'd challenge it all the way to the Supreme Court. Not my fault he chickened out.
As I recall, Daniel Peng wrote a file indexing engine.
Coming soon: Netscape Gremlin
~D:
The future isn't what it used to be.
Taking something all the way to the surpreme court is very, very expensive.
Isn't that what the EFF and ACLU are for?
I do not have any cash to give but I've got some bootleg Metallica CD's I could donate(I just need to make some copies).
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
Why would we donate money Daniel Peng? Yeah, he got screwed, but the fact is he settled rather than fight. I'd be willing to donate $ for his legal bills had he opted to fight the RIAA lawsuit -- but not now; why should we give him money to help pay the settlement, when it will go straight to the RIAA?
I'm not sure you have to be brave to click the link that crashes your Mozilla. It's like not pressing the red button that says "Don't Press". I knew what it was going to do and I still clicked the link. Give stupid/curious people like me some credit too thanks.
Nothing from nowhere I'm no one at all
Yet an equivalent bug (because they're bugs, not vulnerabilities) in IE makes the front page and generates hundreds of 'M$ is teh sux' posts.
Ahhhh, but this is open source, so the bug must be 'less bad'.
His reasoning is quite acceptable IMO, in an earlier Slashdot article he mentioned in an interview that he or his family did not have the resources to fight this in court therefore they agreed to a settlement.
Unfortunately the RIAA have chosen to target University students, the same people who in couple of years will graduate and gain employment and therefore have more disposable income to purchase music through the 'proper' channels.
It's been said many times before, the RIAA are digging there own grave with this type of legal action.
The Browser Formerly Known as Phoenix people seem to be asserting that.
Perhaps it's just a glib reversal to save face?
So how come this "exploit" wasn't deserving of its own front page story like the IE one was?
And for the better, in addition to stepping on toes, those names were godawful, and brought to mind not only the cars themselves, but also the attendant mullets and hairbands. Great program otherwise.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
According to this --
Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly, but weren't there mp3s *on his box* available for downloading? Unless they were all ok for distribution (certainly possible, but unlikely) wouldn't this qualify as `distributing mp3s himself' ?fieldset, legend tags are used to do it. Funny thing is I'd never heard of them in my life.
Apparently they're used to do form meta-layout, as a hint to non graphical browsers, or a browser with a special form handler.
Apparently they don't get played around with much, (d'Oh!)
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
It's flexible
It's lighweight
It's Stable
It's Got the support of Apple Computers Inc
It's got decent fonts
It also a universal fileviewer/manager
You can even run a terminal emulator at the bottom of it.
It's basically Internet Explorer for linux, but without the bugs and spyware!
Konqueror, the cause of the Dinosaur's extinction
And, it dosen't crash on the crash mozilla page either!
Avalible in all good linux distros, MacOS X, *BSD and even experimentally on Windows!
Isn't that what your mom is for?
Isn't that what the EFF and ACLU are for?
Actually, the ACLU kind of has a lot on their plate these days, what with trying to stop Ashcroft from spying on everyone and locking them up in Gitmo without even being charged and all...
GMD
watch this
Sorry.
When Opera is free and less ugly, I'll consider it. Till then, it's all Safari for me.
I have a 16X burner. That should be worth $800!
If this doesn't get modded up or gets labelled as Flamebait or troll I'll have lost all hope for Slashdot.
You may notice that one of the numerous links in this Slashback is to a page that crashes Mozilla.
cant_get_a_good_nick replies to the following (written by cscx):
"So how come this "exploit" wasn't deserving of its own front page story like the IE one was?"
with
"Umm, cause it wasn't an exploit.
IE exploits gives bad people access to your machines. This just crashes your browser. Does a crash in code that is so obscure that nobody ever triggered it using tags that I've personally never heard of (I'm no HTML expert but I have been a professional webmaster on and off for 10 years) warrant a font page story? My vote is no."
And yes, he is right! But what he fails to remember is that just a few days ago the same sort of crash was labelled as an "exploit" by slashdot.
here
He also makes reference to the fact that this is really uncommon html code. i.e. we should go easy on Mozilla for this. But IE received no such grace from slashdot readers. Go on, click on the link. Read through the comments.
We all know we're biased in some sense to Linux. But does it have to be so god damn obvious? We're geeks. We're supposed to be smarter than average. We should be better than this.
What really gets me though is that cscx was modded as a troll for his statement. Bias doesn't get anymore blatant than that.
Sean
Here's how you can crash IE *and* Mozilla in one file ;) :
</fieldset>
<html>
<form>
<input type crash>
<fieldset style="position:fixed;">
<legend>Crash</legend>
</form>
</html>
submit a patch. Seriously, with all the talented slashdotters out there I'm surprised the Mozilla bug wasn't fixed before the story even posted for non-subscribers.
This space intentionally left blank.
at twice the price if Neal would only release Quicksilver in any format.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Amen to that. If we all pitch in and pay the fine it will only encourage them to repeat the trick. Sorry, but if you want help you had better be willing to do your part.
As a more libertarian sort, I'm much more likely to contribute to mutual aid than to give outright charity. Helping somebody fight against injustice boils down to selfish self-defensein that it lowers the odds of it happening to me in turn. Helping somebody who wants to bend over and take it only raises the odds of getting screwed in return, and where is my motivation for that?
Yes it sucks to be that one guy who gets picked as a test case, but Freedom isn't free any more than Free Software is free. And it isn't until the crap hits the fan that you are forced to look deep down into your self and decide whether to be a sheep or stand up and accept the responsibility to defend the Liberties you were supposedly endowed with. And should the day come that a hero fights a truly just cause alone, our experiment in self government is concluded.
If this guy didn't know that being a mp3 trader (yes I know he claims the defense of only indexing files) in any way risked the wrath of the RIAA then the guy is an idiot. Idiots deserve no help from me. So lets assume he did know and was doing it as an act of civil disobedience. Then he is obligated to follow through and BE the test case. I'm sure that the authorities would have been more than happy to let Rosa Parks chicken out and settle for a small fine and stop the growing civil rights battle swirling around her case, but what sort of world would she have helped build?
Democrat delenda est
I would love to donate to Mr. Peng's fund, as I too believe he was wrongfully accused. However, I cannot and will not use Paypal.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
A) the guy's not guilty of any crime
B) my money will NEVER be sent to the RIAA
C) Piracy is fun! Hooray for piracy!
PS for the inattentive: piracy is *not* the same as theft.Theft is depriving somebody of their property, whereas piracy is merely copyright infringement.
Dumbshit.
Oh wait! It wouldn't be Free Speech! It must be EEEEEVIL!
Fucking zealots.
Well he can be 'reasonable' with his own money. I won't help him set the precedent that the RIAA can run around threatening people, expect them to take a dive before the first round and then, even better still, you can actually get blood from the turnip because idiots will toss money into the hat.
Democrat delenda est
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I really do love the RIAAs thinking, screw over the people that you need $$$ from, and still expect them to buy CDs. I'm sure we were all ready to go jump up and buy CDs after we read the first article on this. You know with all the money they spent they could have put it to better use to come up with strategies to embrace P2P.
The grandparent is not criticizing Daniel's actions. He's simply saying, if Daniel had decided to fight, he would have helped out. He's not fighting, so he won't help with the settlement. It says nothing about disapproving of the settlement.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
(regarding point "C" above)
I'm a musician. I spend hours and hours writing music and finally invest in studio time and the costs of publishing my music on CD (none of this is cheap). The only reason I invest my own money in doing this is that I expect to get a return on my money.
When that CD is pirated and copied, I don't understand how people can think that there's nothing wrong with taking something without paying that they're supposed to pay for. By pirating my CD, you're able to listen to my music without compensating me for the time and money that it took to make the CD in the first place.
You can sit here and rattle off definitions of "theft" and "piracy" and "copyright" all day long, but the bottom line is that you're gaining enjoyment off of my work and hard-earned money without paying for it.
By your definition the IE 'exploit' wasn't an exploit either. It just crashed the browser.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
And what exactly is wrong with the RIAA's goal? They're trying to cut down on piracy. They have a legitimate claim against illegal file sharing & ripping. You may not agree with their actions, I know I don't, but you can't fault them for wanting to get money for their product, as worthless as it may be.
Having said that, I think their message gets through even if this kid gets plenty of support - word still gets around that 4 students were singled out by the RIAA.
Your brain is not a computer.
The guy isn't guilty of any crime, but he had to settle as if he were? Someone enlighten me... I'm still forming my opinion on this, but if the RIAA is willing to pursue bully tactics (intimidating people with lawsuits with no merit against people who can't fight back), and price fixing, they shouldn't have the nerve to complain when the consumer resorts to the same things when fighting back. Not saying it's right, or legal, but they shouldn't act shocked when human nature asserts itself. Oh, and the people who ACTUALLY DO something against the law, even when pursuing their own form of justice should be prepared to face the consequences... (in general, not referring to the lawsuits in question)
> And what exactly is wrong with the RIAA's goal? They have a legitimate claim against illegal file sharing & ripping
What's wrong is that the RIAA used their huge legal and financial resources to persecute a student who ran a computer network search engine?
Not an MP3 trading application, just a search engine that could be used, as Altavista and Google can, for finding MP3s...
If they are so right, why didn't they sue Altavista first? Why not Google first? Because they would have fought back and won. Therefore the RIAA was NOT suing because they were right, they were using their superior force to pervert our legal system and intimidate people who are doing LEGAL things that conflict with the RIAA's goals.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
for the inattentive: piracy is *not* the same as theft.Theft is depriving somebody of their property, whereas piracy is merely copyright infringement.
Actualy, Piracy is also depriving someone of their property, but with a boat.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Piracy is robbery at sea. The fact that the term 'piracy' was hijacked to describe copyright infringment is part of the problem.
It needs to be redefined. Somewhere between 'trying before you buy' and 'muderous robbery' is the answer.
There is nothing at all wrong with the term copyright infringment. As you imply, this is all that it is. It is not theft and it is not piracy.
Phoenix uses native widgets (gtk2 on linux).
and
This Post
basically: he was sharing files and settled that, but the RIAA gets to pretend its playing nice with its $98 billion dollar lawsuit.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Geek: wow, aren't you timothy? you stopped the Mozilla crashing page, right? how did you do it?
timothy: it was simple really. Web pages have a preset "bandwidth limit", once they reach this limit, they shut down. knowing their weakness, i just sent wave after wave of our own browsers into view them, once they crashed them all, they were effectively shut down.
I stole this Sig
You can sit here and rattle off definitions of "theft" and "piracy" and "copyright" all day long, but the bottom line is that you're gaining enjoyment off of my work and hard-earned money without paying for it.
Go lookup Payola and learn about the record business. If some people don't get to enjoy your stuff for free (via radio or other means) you won't ever recover your expenses. Of course even if you do sell nearly a 1/2 million CD's you might not recover your expenses either. That how it works and if you don't like it, try a different line of work. If CCR can't make money in the business how do you expect to?
Seems pretty obviouzilla...
Theft is depriving somebody of their property, whereas piracy is merely copyright infringement.
So wrong! Piracy is sailing around the oceans on a clipper, wearing an eye patch and carrying a parrot on your shoulder!
they were 'the' band to see live of that time period in rock/metal, and they sold out so many shows at $100+ ticket prices, obviously the shows were A) good and B) a good source of $.
but they got greedy cuz they wanted to get out of debt with the distributers/promoters and still live crazy/exuberant lifestyles.
suprise suprise when there hardcore fans of metal (read, not adults with lots of money) didnt want to give them even more than had been sucked out of them from the previous 6 albums and 8 seasons of concerts, I mean when they did the payperview concert it was one of the top sellers on payperview, i think boxing worl championships are the only thing that outsold them.
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
why should any of us donate to pay a completely unfair and absurd award to a multi-billion dollar industry? i fail to see it.
Please, everyone keep in mind that the naming situation wouldn't have been nearly as bad if Phoenix hadn't made such a big deal in the first place.
The big, bloated, everything-including-the-kitchen-sink Mozilla that you download from mozilla.org is called Seamonkey.
However, nobody ever refers to it as Seamonkey - it's just Mozilla. Phoenix/Firebird was just being referred to directly as Phoenix/Firebird until Seamonkey could be retired and the rest of the developers could move over to the new codebase. At that point it would've been "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail & News" again (as far as we end-users are concerned).
If Phoenix hadn't flipped out and had just waited a few months the "Phoenix Browser" would probably have been forgotten.
It's not like Mozilla ever got sued by Exploratoy.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
I'm planning to write a couple more chapters in the next couple weeks, and intend to complete it by the end of the year.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Actually there are a few good parallels between real piracy and music piracy... such as the pirates intercepted a ship and looted it before it got to its port, much the same as people who intercept the prereleases and copyrighted music before it gets into the hands of people who would pay money for them. The difference, of course, being that 'looting' copyrighted material doesn't lessen it's value to the other consumers AS MUCH. This is one thing I don't see here... copyright infringement does lower the value of the material by making it more available without payment, thus ensuring that fewer people will have to buy it to enjoy it. This directly hurts the companies, since fewer people have to buy it to enjoy it, and indirectly hurts the consumers, since less revenue means fewer or lower quality products. I can already see the posts after this saying that it is okay since it is the music companies that are being hurt, and that they are already putting out garbage anyways. Ah well, I'll have to agree with that in spirit! ;)
Even back in the 2.x versions, you could select not to have unrequested windows opened, or set the policy to "smart", which I assume meant that it would try it's best to guess at which was a pop-up and what wasn't.
My problem with Konqueror is it's tabbing, which isn't great, and it's rendering engine. If it sorts them, I'm sold, but that's two big things to solve. I'm hoping Apple helps out there.
"Slashdot" was brutal enough (and even pro-microsoft!). Here's a small list of some postively moderated comments to jog your memory:
An Overview Of PNG; Mozilla M17: M25
Mozilla Milestone 14 Awaits: This better not be M14
Mozilla To Be Dual Licensed - MPL/GPL: IE?
Mozilla M8 Released: Improvement over Netscape, but barely
Mozilla M8 Released: Top 10 things I love about Mozilla.
21 Linux Web Browsers? MS IE for Linux - I'd use it, wouldn't you?
/. has swung in the other direction. Who cares if there are a bunch of 'M$ is teh sux' posts. Does it mean something different from all the 'Mozilla is teh sux' posts from four years ago?
The editors of slashdot were hardly generous in their criticism either:Netscape 6 Fails To Support Web Standards
So what does it mean? The perception of mozilla among a good number of users on
In my opinion, I think Mozilla IS better than IE. Yes, I snicker when I see silly little exploits or bugs in Microsoft products. I work with this stuff all day. I know how many millions of dollars my company spends on Microsoft, and I know that in many cases I can get an open source product that does the job well enough, or sometimes better than the equivalent Microsoft product. I subscribe to ntbugtraq and I see 2-3 vulnerabilities a week for Microsoft products. It makes me wonder why this expensive software has so many problems, and makes me appreciate the effort that goes into free software, even when they get the same kinds of bugs.
Mozilla has come a long way, and, I think, surpassed IE. I hope jwz is proud of what Mozilla has become, even with its problems.
I know I am.
This isn't even strictly an HTML exploit (as claimed in the summary): take out the CSS (style="position:fixed") and it loses its teeth. I know of at least one other related crasher (it's reported in bugzilla) involving certain objects and position:..., and this is probably related.
It has always been an internal codename with the intention of publicly calling the browser component "Mozilla Browser" after 1.4 is released. This is not a retraction of "Mozilla Firebird."
Please see this MozillaNews article for reference to the real story.
I, too, consider myself libertarian, and sent him $10.
The monies collected by the RIAA in the settlement will not represent a great proportion of their revenue, nor will they make them a greater threat -- the purpose was to intimidate.
Imagine, if you will if 10,000 people send him $10. Or 100,000. Or, dare we suggest, a mullion? Imagine that he receives significantly more money than it takes to settle. The honourable thing to do would be to realize (a) lots of people support and help me; (b) what can I do in return?
The answer is clear: place the excess funds in a war chest, and issue a plea: "Thanks for the support.... if we can raise $X, I'll do it again (release a file sharing program, not necessarily offer copyright material for distribution) intentionally, and fight them this time."
I can understand the risk/reward ratio to fight this case being estimated as unaceptable. But, this individual now has some (a) celebrity, (b) notoriety, (c) support. If there is any momentum behind this, it may be enough to collectively fight the RIAA.
My $10 was an investment in the possibility of getting that momentum going. As with all investments, it was not without risk. However, unlike the initial situation, I find the risk/reward quite favorable. Lets raise a bounty and go hunt some RIAA ass.
You could've hired me.
Not to jump in the middle of this, but pirating a CD (by burning a copy of it or keeping the MP3s or some other similar method) is very different than listening to it on the radio. When you listen to a song on the radio they play advertisements for commercial products (also known as "commercials"). Listening to the commercials supposedly causes you to buy the products. When you buy the products, you're giving your money to the company that paid for the commercials. So you're indirectly paying for the music that way.
It turns out that the advertisers actually have to pay the radio station as well. This allows the radio station to pay for the people that work there (believe it or not, the workers have the audacity to insist on getting paid too). It also allows them to pay their electricity bills, utility bills, and royalties on the music.
> An old Mozilla exploit continues to crash almost
> any version/flavor of Mozilla with just 5 lines
> of plain HTML code
Not true. This crash is caused by a failure in CSS processing somewhere. Remove or change the CSS from the snippet and it no longer crashes Mozilla.
CSS is the style="position:fixed" bit. Change it to style="position:relative;" and it ceases to crash Mozilla.
No I do not think CSS counts as "plain HTML".
-Philip
Crash
Oh wait, I'm on Netscape, not Mozilla.
Netscape 4.79 !
whenever someone does that fucking thing 'if u dont mod me up slashdot is sad', that fucking sad ultimatum, I cringe, I stop reading the post, and I get ticked off. if that isnt karma whoring I dont know what is, and I have 50 karma.
I'm a musician too, and I expect that anything I produce will provide publicity for my act. Artists should be paid for any CD's sold, merchandise, etc. but _not_ for every MP3 downloaded. :D You think that "intellectual property" is equivalent to tangible property, and that information should not be free. Some things are for everybody to enjoy.
Why should people pay for every MP3 they download? When did altruism vanish from the face of the planet? I suspect you Americans think that you can patent ideas too
Just tried it, and it still hasn't crashed! I did a view source and got the 5 lines.
<html>
<fieldset style="position:fixed;">
<legend>Crash !/legend>
</fieldset>
</html>
Oh wait, I'm on Netscape, not Mozilla.
Netscape 4.79 !
The fact is, every kid wants to be a swashbuckling sea-dog at some point; it's exciting, adventurous, and thoroughly enjoyable. I think that's the point the RIAA was trying to make when they co-opted the term. Maybe. Hm?
The books linked there are serious crippleware. Very hard to browse and read. If you have specific questions in Biology you can search some quality books here: PubMedBooks
Hmm.. this is true. Do I have the right to wear an eyepatch and parrot then? Methinks not, after all..
It's been a while since I put Mozilla on my OS X machine but this article made me decide to dl the current build (1.3.whatever...didn't mess around w/ the 1.4a) and I have to say...ouch.
The differences between it and Safari are astounding. Mozilla makes me want to gouge my eyes out while Safari is a pleasure to look at and interact with.
Launching Mozilla takes 2-3X as long. Loading the same page in both browsers takes about 50% longer w/ Moz than in Safari (not cached on either browser) and, well, Mozilla's just kind of weak.
Burning some karma here and I do use Firebird/Phoenix/MiniMoz on my Linux box but it's certainly not the one to turn to if you have a nicer OS to back it up, like OS X.
BFL
There's one thing computing teaches you, and that's that there's no point to remembering everything.
--Doug Copland
Not an MP3 trading application, just a search engine that could be used, as Altavista and Google can, for finding MP3s...
That doesn't matter. Remember the Sony decision: as long as there is a possible substantial non-infringing use of the technology, the mere fact that the technology exists isn't enough for the provider to be liable.
A pure mp3 search engine is fine.
There are only three factors to be considered, and whether the search engine is general purpose or not is NOT one of them.
1) Does it help people infringe?
2) Does the provider know of specific infringements that it has helped? (more specific than knowing that they're possible; less specific than knowing individual filenames, though that would be good too)
3) Could the provider have stopped helping people infringe by changing his technology or failing to provide it anymore?
I suspect this kid knew that people were actually infringing using his search engine. I bet he even used it himself in that manner, as even getting a listing of illegally downloadable files could infringe the copyright holder's distribution right.
There is also one other way to escape liability; it is the one that the search engines use. And that is to comply with the DMCA safe harbor in 17 USC 512. But these kids didn't do that either, or else they'd be laughing at the RIAA while totally immune from suit.
So the reason to not sue Google et al, aside from that they do have better lawyers, is that Google was smart enough to shield themselves with the law; these kids were stupid and left themselves wide open to liability. Even though it would be easy-peasy to get the immunity.
But they didn't, and RIAA _was_ right here. Still a bully, but right. It happens from time to time, you know.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I was going to write a big reply to you, but I re-read this line and figured it was enough. Just remind me to never buy your cd if the only reason you do it is because you EXPECT to get money back. Thanks, but no thanks, and rather listen to musicians who do it because they love music, not money =).
Your suggestion is just plain-old dumb.
I knew a formerly married couple where the guy actually quit his job (very high-paying, no less) to avoid paying his wife child support payments when they were about to get a divorce. He got away with it... and as far as anyone knows he left the country at around the same time.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
> Imagine that he receives significantly more money than it
> takes to settle.
Kinda risky strategy. Give the money to the EFF and you know exactly where it will go.
And yes, I can imagine the RIAA launching moreof these attacks if they get their money from this one. Sure 15,000 isn't a whole lot to the MUSIC INDUSTRY, but it isn't peanuts to the RIAA. They are just an industry lobbying organization. They just might decide that if suing one worked a hundred would net them a serious chunk of cash.
Democrat delenda est
The number of people with such claimed noble (and I might point out entirely unproven) intentions is dwarfed by the number of people that would never pay for something they've been able to download for free. Sorry, but the only real fair thing for the marketer to do is to err on the side of caution and insist that you pay *before* you get the merchandise.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
So you are saying that Libertarians don't give unless they directly benefit from the giving? I'm honestly curious, because I've never heard anything remotely like this attached to Libertarianism. Seems more like Objectivism to me.
As for motivation, I suppose one could be motivated to help a guy out when he's been screwed. If you were standing on a street corner and someone walked off the curb without looking and into the path of an oncoming bus, would you do anything? What an idiot! Idiots deserve no help from you. Why, if he got splattered, there would be a huge scandal which would probably lead to increasing the safety training for bus drivers, thus lowering the chances of you getting hit by a bus.
IMHO, helping a guy out when he's down is another way of saying, "We are both the same," and in a world where we are permanently locked in our own skulls, that's worth a few dollars, at least to me.
"It's Dot Com!"
Yes, it is risky. FWIW, I also donate to the EFF. Sometimes a risky investment pays off though. The trick is to diversify :-)
You could've hired me.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Baaaaaaa.
What a wonderful father he must be. Doesn't support his own kids just to spite his wife. Sounds like an asshole. I hope he didn't come to my country.
The move to "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail" was always in the plan, and was in the branding document published last month. This change is scheduled to happen at some point after we release the currently-in-development 1.4 application suite.
But, before the change happens, there are likely to be one or more releases of the Mozilla Firebird Browser as a standalone application. That was also always in the plan.
Move along, no change, nothing to see here.
Gerv
(gerv at mozilla.org)
Actually, piracy was hijacked to describe unauthorized publishing. It was first used in that sense in 1668, many years before the first copyright law was passed in 1710. Look it up in your OED. (surely everyone has an unabridged OED ;)
So I think that battle is probably a little too long lost to be fought again.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Translating commonly used desktop software can make it easier for your school/workplace/mom/dad to consider Linux for the desktop. Obvious applications from the top of my head to start with is KMail/Evolution, Mplayer/Xine, Mozilla/Konqueror, GnuCash, The Gimp, Solitaire, you know, the ones the new desktop users might be playing around with.
It's not hard, anyone can do it. Check out poEdit and start editing. If you have the opportunity, have a few others check your translation before you submit it to the program author, and I'm sure someone at some point has released translation guidlines for your language (Even though it might be general guidlines or for Windows software). Use them, because ending up with a $yourlanguage/English hybrid is not very attractive. Yes, you might think "server" and "session" are perfectly fine words to use, but if there are words that can replace them in your language, better use those and go for consistency.
Good luck.I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
Perhaps Microsoft is behind it all - they wouldn't like the implications of the headline "Peng Win" ...
Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
Which songs are comercials and which aren't? Ever notice the relationship between the band thats showing up and the air play of songs the radio station would would never play?
and still manages to look butt-ugly :D
you could rip and burn as many high quality ogg/mp3s as you can, and distribute them on DVD-Rs to all your friends.
This would however be a childish and illegal form of revenge [but strangely satisfying, I think you'll find].
Don't forget to black out the account number printed on the bottom of the check.
I wouldn't put it past the money grubbing record labels from trying to wire money from your account.
If it's not one thing, it's Steve's Mother
I've seen postings for 2 of the 4 people where they were saying 'donate money to help pay settlement with the RIAA' - but what about the other 2 people? I mean, Aaron Sherman got shafted with the largest settlement of the 4 ($17500) - why not setup sometime to dontate money to him?
i am also a libertarian and sent the poor guy $10. i'm a grad student and not far removed from where he is. this is just silly.
-- john
If you were standing on a street corner and someone walked off the curb without looking and into the path of an oncoming bus, would you do anything?
:)?
:).
it depends really.. is he talking on his cell phone
i'm a libertarian and i dont see anything wrong with helping this guy out. now if the government gave my tax money to him, i'd be shitting bricks
-- john
1) Does it help people infringe?
2) Does the provider know of specific
infringements that it has helped? (more specific than knowing that they're possible; less specific than knowing individual filenames, though that would be good too)
3) Could the provider have stopped helping people infringe by changing his technology or failing to provide it anymore?
First, excuse me for being so brash, but you deserve it...
Put this list back in your ass from whence you pulled it.
How come the RIAA hasn't sued Sony (I know, a paradox) for making CDRW drives. It meets your three criteria. What about Sony's MP3 players? Check. How about the CDR manufacturers. Check. Or any VCR manufacturer. Check. Or photocopying machine makers. Check.
Shall I go on, or do you get the point yet? Besides, this list you made up contradicts the previous sentence you wrote: Remember the Sony decision: as long as there is a possible substantial non-infringing use of the technology, the mere fact that the technology exists isn't enough for the provider to be liable.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Yep, I invest my money and expect a cool CD in return. That's enough for me and it makes my heart pump faster. It goes even faster when somebody shows an interest and says he (or, hopefully, she) actually likes it. I want a good end product, because I enjoy that sort of thing. I get a feeling of pride from having produced something good, not a feeling of satisfaction from the amount of money I get out of it.
"Liability for participation in the infringement will be established were the defendant, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induced, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another."
--From the Netcom case, 907 F.Supp. 1361 (N.D.Cal. 1995).
"Liability for contributory infringement is imposed when one who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induced, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another."
--From the Intellectual Reserve case, 75 F.Supp.2d 1290 (D.Utah 1999).
"Traditionally, one who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induced, causes, or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another, may be held liable as a 'contributory' infringer."
--From the Napster case, 239 F.3d 1004 (9th Cir. 2001).
(apologies for the sloppy citations, but I have finals and don't feel like bluebooking these)
I've added the third factor, which is more typically seen in the test for vicarious infringement. I think that it is useful in clarifying the issue of contribution towards infringement. If the alleged contributory infringer couldn't help it at all, then it seems wrong to impute liability to him. There's a little bit of support for this in the Netcom case cited above:
How come the RIAA hasn't sued Sony (I know, a paradox) for making CDRW drives. It meets your three criteria.
Because it doesn't meet my three criteria. I'll explain that in a second.
Besides, this list you made up contradicts the previous sentence you wrote [about the Sony holding.]
Again it isn't made up -- it's just more than your pitiful mind can handle apparently. I invite you to look up the cases cited above, and to read them. God knows I have.
What the Sony case says is that if you build a machine that can help people infringe, the mere fact that it can do that isn't enough to impute knowledge to you. HOWEVER Sony did NOT say that there was no liability EVER just because your machine had substantial non-infringing uses.
If you have knowledge of specific infringements for some other reason, for example, because you yourself saw infringement occurring, then Sony doesn't help you at all. It prevented you from being considered to have knowledge from one source. It never said you could not gain knowledge from OTHER sources. And you can, oh you can.
But that's okay. The manufacturer of a CDRW drive doesn't know that people will infringe just because the drive lets them. And even though he might know that people do infringe once they get the drives because he has seen it with his own two eyes, or been informed of it by the copyright holder -- what is the manufacturer going to do to stop it?
He can't take the CDRW drives in use back. He can't force people to stop misusing them. And this is the third factor I mentioned previously. He doesn't meet all three criteria, so he escapes liability.
It's why a couple of P2P software developers just got off the hook: they write software, but they don't have any servers on the P2P network. Other people run those servers, other people run the indices. They cannot exert any control over what people do, and it was their saving grace.
Although it is worth noting, incidentally, that we only found this out BECAUSE the movie studios sued the manufacturer of VCRs.
This
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
It would send a powerful message if their "victim" got more than that in "help".
You could've hired me.
I see your logic, but I still feel it's flawed.
Your risk vs. reward seems pretty skewed in this case, for one thing. Peng never so much as made a single public statement (much less a promise) that he'll use excess funds to fight the RIAA in the future.
I'd say the "smart money" is on him being scared (plus pressured by his family, etc.) to avoid any possibility of future confrontations with the recording industry.
Any excess funds he gets will probably just go into his pocketbook - never to give you any direct benefit.
I'd prefer to use this as another prime example of a reason to donate to organizations such as the EFF, that already earmark your money to fight worthy causes.
First, you should use part of your "hard-earned money" to buy a clue.
Theft is depriving someone of property. If I come into your studio and remove boxes of CDs without your permission, that is theft. You no longer have the thing - in this case, boxes of CDs.
Copyright gives the owner the right to copy and distribute their creation, for free or for a fee.
Piracy (in this context) is copying or distributing IP that you do not have the legal right to copy or distribute. If I pirate your CD, YOU STILL HAVE YOUR IP, and all the rights allowed under copyright. Nothing that you can touch has been taken from you. You still have all the rights to your IP, you still have all your CDs, NOTHING TANGIBLE WAS TAKEN.
Have your legal rights been violated? Yes.
Is piracy right? No. Is it theft? Again, no.
In case of IP piracy, a person is liable for copyright infringment (civil suit), not for theft (criminal case).
Bottom line is this person was not "quilty" of anything. He was accused of several things, none of which was proved, he has not been tried by a jury of his peers (interesting thought, that!), but he has agreed to pay over $10,000 so that a major entertainment association will stop harrassing him. That is extortion, and that IS illegal.
Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
Sometimes you fight the oppressor, and sometimes you help the oppressed.
As to the EFF, I already support them.
You could've hired me.
No, you just encourage them to ask for a larger settlement next time. So long as they can get more in a settlement than it costs them to file a couple of papers you encourage them to sue more people.
1. File lawsuits.
2. Collect settlements greater than legal expenses.
3. Profit!
Democrat delenda est
I know, it sucks... but in light of it, I fail to see what's going to happen to make this kid cough up the dough.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Gotta compare IE vs. Moz. I suspect they'll both look decent.
Thanks!
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
Mozilla takes 2-3 times longer *to launch*. That is one or two *full seconds* more! Outrage!
And it takes *exactly about* 50% longer to load *each page* (half a second per page!). Maddnesss!
It is comforting to know there are people out there checking the more substantial probelms of Mozilla (that looks fscking ugly, from my personal objective point of view of course) are highlighted while minor achievements like extensibility, usuability, innovation and widening of choice can be left fro picky people with too much time on their hands.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"Hmm.. this is true. Do I have the right to wear an eyepatch and parrot then? Methinks not, after all.."
Yes you do, and the wooden leg is complementary of the RIAA thugs.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,