Slashdot Mirror
Intuit Drops DRM from Future Products
MisterKoffee writes "ExtremeTech has a story about Intuit dropping Product Activation and Digital Rights Management for most of its future products, including TurboTax, in response to a customer backlash."
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Copy protection will never really exist
If your customers threaten you enough, you'll eventually lose bad schemes like DRM.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Their DRM was so potentially dangerous it was silly. Good to see that they are pulling back from their stance. I don't see microsoft taking the hint, though.
...you print FOUR times total!
I usually need at least that many times because of spotting errors and fixing them up!
Good job Intuit! If this garbage is gone then I WILL purchase your product again.
Help! Intuit's retroactive decision to eliminate "DRM" has caused a probability excavation at several theoretical junctures! It's eating its way back through time...
reality might not have long to exist...if I don't get the first post....then humanity is DOOMED!
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
You fail it, just like everything else, B307ch!
I guess some companies DO listen to their customers. Glad to see it happen.
Anonymous Cowards suck.
TurboTax 2003: The Quickening, starring Sean Connery as the dead-but-not-really DRM engineer who must again protect Connor from having his head (Tax-)Cut off./
It's all well and good hoping that other companies will follow their lead, but unfortunately some companies can afford to hold out on DRM until their customers are forced to accept it; though Intuit may have gone out of business from the customer backlash if they had kept this up, the same may not be true for other companies.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
Thank goodness enough people got pissed about this. Intuit justified the DRM scheme by exaggerating their software losses. They said they sold x copies of TurboTax, yet 2x tax returns were filed using their software, implying that piracy cut their sales in half. They didn't mention how someone might legally do their own taxes and their mom's taxes on the same piece of software.
Ironically, H&R Block, the main benificiary of the consumer ire towards Intuit, is considering adding DRM to their TaxCut software for next year.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
You won't see Microsoft take a hint from Intuit or anyone else. They're far beyond the level of market share where they have to concern themselves with trivialities like consumer satisfaction.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
"Adding digital-rights-management software to the company's tax preparation neither paid off financially in attracting new customers, nor in consumer satisfaction, Intuit spokesman Scott Gulbransen said."
Just how was adding DRM supposed to attract customers and increase customer satisfaction? This sounds distinctly like a marketing/public relations spin attempt.
--Ben
This is excellent news for the paying customers of Intiut products. Unfortunately, this is probably excellent news for software pirates everywhere.
I believe Intuit may see a drop in the sales of TurboTax next year if they remove product activation. Around small offices, I know that the software would be passed around like a bad cold if they didn't have to register the software to actually print out their taxes.
Effective copy protection -- and frankly, theirs was pretty darn effective, compared to most -- at this point has to be intrusive to actually work.
The only way around it would be to patch the code to prevent the lookup, and that's more work than your average person is willing to do.
Theirs certainly was intrusive. Aside from the possible damage to my machine from questionable tactics such as boot-sector munging, their policy of requiring only a single PC being able to use the software is the biggest real objection.
I have multiple PC's at home. I do most of my work in the living room, but it would be nice to be able to alternately work on my taxes from the upstairs office. No can do, without a second license. At least Micro$oft's Activation method lets you have two copies in most cases.
If they really want effective copy protection, the product should come with a USB dongle. That's still annoying, because it may cause you to go out and get a hub and still use your other USB devices at the same time, but I'd live with that.
Would it be fair to then hand my USB dongle to my buddy so he can do his taxes? I'd say yes -- because I would not be able to use it while he has it. Intuit would probably say no. On the other hand, my buddy would probably be more likely to go out and get his own copy for next year.
Ooh! And give a discount to those who have last years' key!
That contrasts with their current policy of offering early versions to registered users, and a price usually $20 higher than BestBuy will have just after XMas.
Design for Use, not Construction!
If you include DRM -- you will sink like a lead balloon. The customers have spoken. Now, we just need to turn the heat up on Microsoft. Why wasn't their a backlash like this for Microsoft? People need to tell companies that they won't stand for this type of behavior. Let's hope that Microsoft is taking notes. Palladium is going to have the same problems as Intuit did.
Now if only lots more people would show up for the hearings of the SuperDMCA bills
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
Darn it!
I was all pumped-up to buy TaxCut next year.
Hmmm... maybe I still will.
This is a perfect case of a company bending to the demands of its customers. Intuit is probably not going to kill DRM though. Any idiot can tell that making a product naked before the world will make it much easier to pirate. Probably Intuit will come up with a different way to enforce the license on its software, perhaps something like Microsoft's Product Activation or something equally intrusive. At least they're not dancing in my boot sector any more.
This is great, but for a different reason. They're differentiating between those who pay, and those who don't. Those who pay, don't get the DRM. That's very nice. Those who don't, (demo, marketing versions), get it, and can't get rid of it. If this convinces people to pay, without inhibiting them in any way that really matters (especially paying customers), great! This is FINALLY a good application of DRM!
They expected to see sales growth by adding product activation? I want some of whatever they're smoking.
They lost my money and my future business because of the tax software registration/lock down fiasco. They showed the software industry about how much the general public will take in terms of software liscensing.
Disney, Microsoft and GM don't pay any taxes, why should you?!!
Hell, I bet 50% of the people pay more in taxes than their elected representatives!
This was the ONLY reason I didn't buy TurboTax this year. Period. My taxes weren't that complicated, and there were plenty other choices out there. If they do drop the DRM/activation, I will definitely reconsider next year. Just as bad behavior is discouraged, good behavior should be rewarded.
I'm shocked that the so called backlash has caused Intuit to do this. It flies in the face of yesterday's earnings news. According to the news Intuit sales on its tax preparation software increased dramatically over the same period last year. My assumtion being that the copy protection was indeed effective and caused many more people than usual to fork out their $14~$35.
This Slashdot story comes as a real shock after yesterdays market news. I'd really like to know some more accurate details on the decision.
They've already lost me as a customer. I will not be returning, due to their lack of respect for me.
There are other tax software vendors, and lots of other financial packages, and I will continue to look to their competitors. It's not like their software is far and away the best out there, and I'm forced to use it.
Am I the only person who feels that this entire argument should be moot? The IRS is perfectly capable of allowing consumers to file online tax returns. Several states, including DC (my home is in the district) allow online tax forms to be filled out. All are quite advanced, allowing deductions and the proper calculations to take mere seconds. Most are relatively error-free.
The IRS though, caving to groups like Intuit and full-service prepares like H&R Block, has taken the novel approach of allowing people to submit taxes online, but only if approved through a private company. Yes, there are a few folks who can use telefile, but for anyone making any decent wages, there's no free equivalent to telefile for federal forms. I'm don't itemize my deductions, yet even taking the standard deduction makes it "impossible" to use telefile.
This is one area that the government could step in and provide a useful service for free, just as the states have done so. There's no reason for them not to, except for frantic lobbying by certain interests.
They're far beyond the level of market share where they have to concern themselves with trivialities like consumer satisfaction.
This just goes to show that companies like Microsoft are short-lived in the grand scheme of things. Intuit responds to customers to survive as a business...it really shouldn't be any different for Microsoft. It's just that, for Microsoft, it is a matter of long-term survival, otherwise they will simply burn up in their arrogance after just a few more years.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
There constant marketing to me and cross-marketing over the years already let me know Intuit viewed me as a profit center not a valued customer.
This DRM silliness was the straw that broke my back. I tried H&R blocks software and found no real difference. Now H&R has me as a customer. And, I strongly frightened my family and friends awy from TurboTax.
The big problem is that Intuit, H&R et al aren't bound by the same sacrosanct statutes as the IRS. So, there is no legel provision stopping them from selling/giving away your person informaiton and your income statements.
With them treating me as a profit center (as opposed to a customer) I have lost faith that they're not (at least capable of) storing and selling my info either when I use electronic filing or when the software silently phones home.
I always accepted that such behaviour was technically possible, but not something they would do, until the DRM coupled with excessive cross-marketing.
My relationship with them was based on trust and now they've lost that.
I'm one of those people who protested to Intuit. I had purchased the software, so I used it, but never again.
While I am very glad they have seen the light, there is still their implicit accusation that every single one of their customers is a thief (which, IMHO, is what DRM implies). I'm glad they're dropping DRM, but they should be groveling to their customers. Until they do, I'll be buying from their competitors (that don't use DRM, of course). Intuit should be made to feel pain, and I mean deep hurting where it counts, their bottom line. While the RIAA and MPAA are out there making examples of people, it is time we made an example of Intuit. Despite this turnaround, they should be made an example to the whole corporate world that technologies of control are unacceptable to consumers. If Intuit's revenue were to drop 50%, believe me, it will chill the market for DRM products.
Here's what I suggest if you, like me, are a user of Intuit software:
1. If you are a TurboTax user, switch to a competitor next year (one that doesn't use DRM either).
2. If you are a Quicken user, either switch to something else, MoneyDance, GNUCash, etc., or at least DO NOT UPGRADE. If you seriously think about it, what could a new version do for you that the current one doesn't?
Hit 'em. Hurt 'em. Teach 'em a lesson.
No more Intuit products for me. And I have NEVER copied a single product of theirs. EVER. In fact, that's why I'm so angry with them.
The fact is that they did see sales growth. Try reading this.
Frankly, I cannot understand what their real motivation for removing the DRM is.
Software companies that offer real value for money have little need to resort to copy protection. It's the ones that don't that always wind up resorting to nonsense like copy protection. But, of course, the copy protection lowers the value of their product even more, which simply makes the decision to jump to a competitor even easier. Even Microsoft is starting to see this.
Something tells me that Intuit isn't going to see continued growth and profits next year, though.
Oh yeah, this explains why Apple sold 2 million songs in 2 weeks? I think company and individuals have a right to protect their intellectual property. Therefore, I support fair DRM like the one iTunes Music Store is doing (unlimited iPod, unlimited streaming, unlimited buring (up to 10 times for the same PLaylist), and allowable on up to 3 Macs).
I'm glad to see that Intuit finally came to their senses. Too bad they did it so late, as I've already switched to H & R Block's TaxCut. Now all my data has been switched over, I see no reason to go back. Who should I support: The company that changed it's mind about screwing me, or the company that never tried to screw me in the first place?
The tragedy is that anyone with half a brain could have told them their scheme wouldn't work. Moreover, they've aliented not only millions of potential customers, but millions of formerly loyal customers as well. I had used MacinTax (the Mac version of TurboTax) for seven to ten years. Now, unless H&R Block does something stupid or discontinues the product, I have no compelling reason to switch back.
It's good to see Intuit come to it's senses, but the damage is already done.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Another reason why copy protection will never really exist.
Don't you just love the way they call it "copy protection", rather than "copy prevention", a more accurate term?
The reasons why are clear - "protection" makes it sound like a feature that the customer will benefit from, whereas "prevention" makes it more obvious to the average Joe that it's not their interests that are being protected but that of the software/CD/whatever vendor.
Yes, I respect a company's (or an individual's) rights to prevent me from mass redistribution of their work but, where the copy prevention mechanism is sufficiently complex as to require user interaction and/or impacts on reasonable customer expectations, I think it would be more honest if the relevant details were made clear up front so that customers could make more honestly informed decisions.
I'm not just thinking about the DRM used by Intuit here but of DRM in all shapes and sizes. A prominent warning on the box that a software product may require the user to do x, y and z in order to work properly, or that a "CD" does not adhere to established standards and thus won't work in any PC, Mac, games console, most in-car stereos or any newer hifi system that is sufficiently advanced (and why this is so) would be more preferable than the current situation.
A tiny, obscure little message in 10 point font hidden on the reverse of the packaging somewhere near the copyright notification just doesn't cut it. If companies are really interested in the rights of the consumer (which is something that they always say but rarely ever show) isn't honesty up front the least that we can expect from them?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
T0ny D4nz4 i5 t3h l337e57 of t3h crax0rz
This goes to show? What does to show that? The annoying opinion of an drooling anti-Microsoft linux geek?
And if you are like me, you got a card from Intuit (sent to a mangled address that only resembles mine, and delivered only because a very sharp mailman handled it) stating that you forgot to submit the UPC code and receipt with your rebate (while all along you have been holding on to a photocopy of the perfectly completed rebate form).
Needless to say, the web service for checking on rebate status just states that my is still being processed and should arrive soon...
Intuit disregard for its customers does not stop at limiting the use of its software, but it extends to other aspects of Intuit's business. As noted already, contempt for customers' needs and poor-to-none service will only result in the shrinking and final demise of a company that allows greed and stupidity to run the show.
Next year, I'll just download the crack. Instant rebate right there.
But IMHO, hurling so much copy protection at software sold so cheaply and used for so little time was a mistake.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
intuit and complained, you should notify them and let them know you appreciate there removal of drm.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm not using them next year... got burned, got mad, walked. Plenty of other tax software thats cheaper and suits my simple needs.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
I still had to send the IRS my W2 forms when I filed online (the only time) they made me send my W2 forms in anyways. But if I filed by phone they took my voice as my signature, at least that was the IRS' answer when asked. Never once did the file by phone ask you to speak, it was touch tone the whole way, a mute could use it. Whats the point of going electronic if you can't go electronic? ALL federal tax's should be freely doable on their website.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Well that is why programs like TaxAct are growing and charge for automating the state or efile. I think it cost a total of $12 which is far less then ~$30 and I got both Federal and State filed out.
I wonder if US/Canadian tax software is something more than an plain electronic form
> This just goes to show that companies like Microsoft are short-lived in the grand scheme of things
!? Microsoft "Short lived"? Geez, I fail to see how a couple of DECADES isn't long-lived, especially considering the amount of legal investigations they've had.
The annoying opinion of an drooling anti-Microsoft linux geek?
It correlates with one of the Liberatarian things ESR says that actually makes sense. Monopolies are unstable in a free marketplace, because, eventually, people will find new options or new ways of doing things. Microsoft can piss off only so many people and so many nations before, well, they either wise up or go out of business completely.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Ok, So User A buys it, makes a Audio CD which User B rips and puts on a P2P network. The issue is that any system that supports fair DRM uses, is also very easy to abuse. I'm not a fan of locking down eveything w/ DMR and killing fair use, but I can see where the other side stands...and it's not a pretty picture for either side. I don't think it will ever be easy to solve/
How does it show Microsoft as being 'short-lived' in any realistic sense? I'm sorry, you can argue that microsoft's dominant market posistion is "short-lived", but that's not what you're saying. You're saying that "companies like microsoft are short-lived". I would like to know what the thought process was that brought you to that conclusion.
If you file paperwork, the IRS is required to keep a copy of everything you send them. So every year, I send them the majority of what they would request during an audit, bank records, etc.
I've used software to prepare my return, but always file by mail. That way, they have more to deal with. I am not about to pay, to go through a private company for a filing. If the IRS makes it simple to file digitally, then I might ease up on them. Right now I say Choke 'em on paperwork.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
"In addition, we didn't get the revenue and profit growth we expected."
I think they'd be trying to find a way to keep DRM while resolving it's problems if their bottom line had been better. I don't think it's as much about the backlash as we'd like to believe.
Hmmmmm!
The much vaunted Microsoft business plan only seems to work for Microsoft! When humble companies like Intuit try it, they always seem to crash and burn!
Could it be that Microsoft's business plan only works for a monopoly?
Nah! All the Microsoft apologists assured us that Microsoft wasn't doing any harm to customers, so how could it be deemed a monopoly?
One thing has been made manifestly clear, however. Intuit does definitely not have monopoly powers, which must come as a shock to the idiot executives at Intuit!!!
Overall, the experience was positive. We used different services, but both services had the usual wizard-like walkthrough, error-checking, etc.. And we both got our refunds in short order.
I'm now recommending online filing to everyone who asks. It can be significantly less expensive (depending on the service) and you don't have to deal with the DRM issues.
I didn't buy turbo tax for just that reason, this year, and switched to HR Block's product, which I didn't like as much. Pretty cool. Not something you see often these days.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
I read them the riot act about this via email. I finally recieved this reply today ..
Dear Valued Customer:
In response to your comments on the implementation of product activation technology in tax year 2002 TurboTax® software, I wanted to let you know that Intuit will discontinue product activation in next year's TurboTax desktop products purchased at retail or direct from Intuit.
We are absolutely committed to listening and learning from our customers. We clearly need to better understand all of our customers' tax preparation needs and how they use TurboTax.
While we remain committed to protecting our intellectual property, going forward, we will only introduce digital rights management technologies that maximize customer experience and preserve customer satisfaction.
Again, thanks for your feedback.
Regards,
Tom Allanson, Sr. Vice President
TurboTax
Well - they saved me as a paying and happy customer!
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
But how many good ideas and good companies will get stomped in the mean time. I see little sign of Microsoft disappearing from the desktop any time soon, due to the high applications barrier to entry and their determined squashing of any technology that threatens this.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
I'm going to have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who's hitched his career the that wagon when it eventually crashes and burns. It may be 5 years or it may be 100, but M$'s products and business won't survive if they ever find themselves in true competition.
As angle_slam says above, you could install Turbo Tax on multiple computers, but only file (and print?) from the first installation. (In fact, strictly speaking, I think you could do this on any installation -- you would disable it on the first installation and enable it on the one you wanted to move it to.)
As you say, if you have a multi-computer household, you can quite easily work on your return on multiple PCs -- you just have to go to the main one to do the final filing. No biggie -- even less hassle than a dongle.
While the QNX stuff is generally of excellent quality the FlexLM thing is a persistent source of problems. Installation and upgrade have never gone smoothly, with obscure services not starting or being misconfigured by the installer, client authentication going wrong more times than it should (i.e. ever), and occasional file-locking problems that require a reboot. At least in my case, licence management seems to generate as much traffic with the QNX support folks as does their actual product (host and target) in its entirety.
Worryingly, the licence is bound specifically to one licence server. I _imagine_ that if the machine (a laptop) were destroyed, lost, or updated, then there would be some means whereby I could persuade them to issue another licence, but it's bound to be a sticky point.
I wouldn't care if everything worked properly and transparently, but it doesn't. My vendor is essentially treating me like a thief and simultaneously making himself look like a bozo (which he isn't - the rest of the QNX stuff is great).
On the last occasion it took several days to resolve the licence manager issues - had this been at a more critical time then this would have been a dealbreaker. It leaves me with a rather bitter taste in my mouth, and I'd think twice before recommending QNX to another client, purely for this reason.
So is their bizantine DRM saving them money, or costing them? I think Intuit can answer that for them.
## W.Finlay McWalter ## http://www.mcwalter.org ##
.. they said that though they've taken it out, they might put it back in in the future if they felt they needed to.
Obviously they WANTED to keep the DRM, but the market pressure forced them to do otherwise. They said that there was no financial incentive to keep the DRM in the product. We have to assume that their interest in DRM was driven by other concerns, since as they've taken it out and said that they might put it back in in the same breath. Evidently some of the people at that company are still strongly in favor of DRM, or this somewhat ambiguous statement wouldn't have been made in the first place.
To those people, the consumers of the world have an announcement of our own to make: "DRM is poisonous to future sales. Don't put it in your products, don't use it, don't even hint at it, because we're not buying it!"
Worked fine for me.
No DRM, off-site backup of my data, and worked fine with Galeon on Debian Linux. If you aren't jumpy about your tax info being shipped off to intuit.com, I can definately recommend it.
Well, looking through my tax software that I have purchased and deducted on my return every year since 1999..
1999 - TurboTax
2000 - TurboTax
2001 - TurboTax
2002 - TaxCut
Its nice to see that Intuit is talking about not using the DRM software next year. I've always wondered if the less expensive TaxCut software was equivalent in quality to the TurboTax software. Since the DRM was implemented this year, I had an incentive besides price to check it out. So I did. As an added bonus, the TaxCut Platinum Home and Business is half the price of the equivalent TurboTax product. However, now that I've switched to TaxCut I think I just may stick with TaxCut. To be honest the TurboTax software made me feel more comfortable, and the final check on my taxes did seem more thorough and helpful. I'm glad Intuit seems to be listening to its customers by not repeating the same mistake again, but since I've already switched I have less incentive to switch back.
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
Haven't we already talked about the difference in power between a company with a monopoly on the market and one that is in a competitive market?
I'm a die-hard GNU/Linux and Free Software advocate (even to the point of occasionally prefixing "linux" with "GNU"), but seriously, what alternative to Microsoft exists in the marketplace?
The home user gets a copy of Windows on the PC s/he buys through virtually every common outlet. (Wal-Mart on line offers Linux based PCs, but not in their stores yet). The games they want to run are Windows-only.
In business, it is hard to find OEMs pushing Linux for desktop machines. Sure, you could go to one of the Linux-friendly VARs, but most of them aren't geared up to provide sales and support to large corporations.
I'm not saying this situation is forever. Linux is gaining ground in all markets. But, for the present, Microsoft still has their effective monopoly power. They're strongarming the motherboard OEMs into implementing Palladium. They'll have it in a future version of Windows. And what choice will consumers have? There won't be a choice. And that, my friends, is what monopolies and cartels do.
A plan for consumer friendly computing:
1. Educate. Talk to your friends about DRM and what it means.
2. Agitate. Join the EFF. Write your congressional delegation. Boycott companies (like Intuit) that use DRM.
3. Have integrity. Don't violate copyright. Don't copy software illegally. Don't copy music illegally. Don't copy anything illegally. This is the least popular thing I have to say, but it is IMPORTANT. Every copy is bullet in the other side's arsenal. Evey copy is an argument for them to push legislation that takes away our freedoms. We must not be hypocrites if we want to have the moral ground to expose their hypocrisy.
4. Exercise the rights you have. Rip every single one of your CDs to mp3 or ogg files. Copy them onto every kind of media you have. Make use of your fair use rights. Return hardware that doesn't let you do this. Return (or better, don't buy) copy protected media. Even if that Macrovision protected DVD is your favorite movie (here you are hampered by the fact that products are not labeled adequately -- that's where writing congress comes in -- lobby for consumer protection laws. Our opoonents have lobbyists -- be one yourself for our side. Believe me, letters make a difference).
5. Talk. (Actually a variation on item 1, but it is really important, so I'll repeat it). Spread these ideas. Put up a web site. Join in onine discussions here and elsewhere. Get the "idea" of digital freedom into the popular conciousness at every opportunity. True, this isn't slavery or Jim Crow, but this is a civil liberties issue, and it is time we started drawing people's attention to it.
Used to be customer, dropped 'em this yr. due to their DRM nonsense.
Might go back to them, maybe not, found cheaper and better alternatives, thanks, Intuit, for opening my eyes to the world out there.
I'm sorry, you can argue that microsoft's dominant market posistion is "short-lived", but that's not what you're saying. You're saying that "companies like microsoft are short-lived". I would like to know what the thought process was that brought you to that conclusion.
"companies like Microsoft" includes the notion of current dominant market position. Separating a company from its actions is hard to do. Perhaps, in the future, Microsoft will not go out of business, but my estimate is that it will be nothing like the Microsoft we know and love today.
Singing: How many people must Microsoft piss off, before they go broke and reform? How much data must get lost today, before customers see the scam and run?
(I'm really very sorry if my singing disrupted anyone's work)
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Intuit responds to customers to survive as a business...it really shouldn't be any different for Microsoft.
In SOVIET RUSSIA, customers respond to COMPANIES.
Microsoft has put themselves into a position that they no longer have to respond to customers - customers respond to them, end users, OEMs and third-party software authors alike. New DirectX versions (among other things) drive the video card market. New Windows versions drive new versions of other software, both MS and otherwise. New licenses on MS products drive system costs. Having a ninety-something percent market share will do that.
Dare to Hope. Prepare to be Disappointed.
Dont prove their point by pirating them into oblivion.. We should reward them for listening to all of us, and buy their stuff next year.. .
---- Booth was a patriot ----
shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
They lost me as a customer. Taxcut did just as well for me and I have no reason to go back to TT from Intuit.
BC
Dancing in my boot sector
Turning on my BIOS reflector
Now I'm...
Prancing on Intuit's Software Director
Burning through his copywrite protector
Songs over, go home.
You know, unless you have a small business or some other complicated feature on your tax return, it's pretty easy to do your own taxes by hand. For a normal wage slave with a T4 or two and normal deductions (tuition, RRSPs, etc), doing it yourself doesn't take much longer than following Quicktax's interview process.
I'd used Quicktax for several years before this one, and I decided to skip it because of the restrictions in this year's edition, and because I was curious as to whether the software actually saved any time. As it turned out, the software would have saved me about forty-five minutes over the course of doing returns for my wife and myself (from what I recall from last year with Quicktax).
Now, both telefiling and efiling are free, but telefiling takes a lot longer, since you have to enter in the data from a bunch of lines by hand. So add another fifteen minutes extra to the total to telefile. Since I don't make more than $30/hour, I figure I came out ahead doing them myself, and I got my refund just as quickly as someone who'd efiled.
Rich
I used to be a TurboTax die hard. Wouldn't have switched, simply because I knew TurboTax worked.
This year was different. After having fought with Macrovision BS before (with the Oxford English Dictionary), I decided it wasn't worth the pain.
And you know what? I discovered a perfectly adequate, less expensive alternative -- TaxAct!
I may return to TurboTax simply to reward them for correcting their mistake, but I'm not really that sure I want to pay the extra for TurboTax when TaxAct is much less expensive.
Intuit responds to customers to survive as a business
They have to because there is competition in the tax prep business. The desktop and office product business does not. I believe going into this, Intuit truely felt they could bully the customers a little bit and get a way with it do to the market share they had in the past and its close tie in with other products used by customers throughout the year. They now see their grip was not as tight as they thought.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Geez, I fail to see how a couple of DECADES isn't long-lived...
Twenty years or so is but a blip in the history of the world economy.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
It correlates with one of the Liberatarian things ESR says that actually makes sense. Monopolies are unstable in a free marketplace, because, eventually, people will find new options or new ways of doing things. Microsoft can piss off only so many people and so many nations before, well, they either wise up or go out of business completely.
I have always said that a free market/capitalist system is a self regulating system. I *know* MS will lose marketshare and be a shadow of its former self in 10 years because EVERY other monopoly has done the same. IBM was busted for monopolistic policies in the 70s. By the time it was over, IBM did more damage to itself in the marketplace than the courts did. Now, they are a responsible corporation, perhaps party due to the fact that they have been humbled in the past. They are even the biggest corporate contributor to OSS now.
The self correcting aspects may not be instant, or even fast, but it happens. Most 'monopolies' from 30 years ago are no longer, courts or no courts. Xerox, AT&T, all US car makers combined, the big 3 tv networks, CNN, etc. They are all still viable businesses that at one time had near or total monopolies. The market place decided they should no longer be, NOT the courts.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
I googled for the name of the installed program and didn't look close enough. Use the open source one instead.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Right, but I think they misread the consumer response, which is unfortunate. They think people are telling them to get copy-protection off their products. Actually, most of us (I think) were saying, "Stay off our boot sector."
Problem there is that those of us who don't like software that screws with boot sectors and AV protection get lumped in with software pirates in their eyes. They've said that they think there were ulterior motives behind the "no bootsector" complaints, sort of in the same way that pot smokers support the hemp fabric industry - and it ain't because they have any vested interest in rope.
It would be nice for somebody like the EFF or whatever to really sit down with companies like Intuit and convince them that most of us don't at all have a problem with copy protection that doesn't reduce the functionality of the software or cause security/stability problems.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Well, it's pretty simple. They changed a stupid policy because customers demanded they fix things. Now they have. Most likely they will lose some sales now because piracy will be easier again. This will send a negative message to them, contradicting the earlier customer demand.
So we need to encourage people to buy this product instead of copying it, and when and if you buy it, send them a note that says you're buying it because they changed their policies.
If other companies see that they can remove the DRM and not lose sales, they will follow suit!
Trolling-putting a rubber c0ck down your pants and cutting it off with a chainsaw: noisy and it makes you look d1ckless
When I first read the headline I saw " Intel Drops DRM" and I was about to do the Happy Dance on Palladium's grave.
Well, let's hope we still get to see that headline.
Someone you trust is one of us.
I'll nonetheless be curious to see what happens with the imminent release of Office 2003. The current Office (XP) doesn't have Product Activation, but the 2003 beta does... I certainly won't recommend it to anyone unless the activation nonsense is stripped. Eventually Microsoft DOES have to convince people to upgrade, and that's a much harder sell than forcing an OEM to bundle Windows and Works.
Not that I have any real power but still...
filmcritic.com - Movie reviews on Internet time
Seperating a company from its' actions is only hard if the conversation is about its' action. In this case, you can say "companies like" means "companies that share similar markets", or "companies of compartively similar income" or even "companies located in the same geographic region". None of those "includes the notion of current dominant market posistion". So, my question remains, and your little song and dance changes even less than would Mengele were he singing 'springtime for hitler'. (see? it's not hard for the other person to inject total nonsense into their post, also. ;))
Hey fool, it's the price of being in the software business.
If you open a store, SOMEONE is going to get away with a little shoplifting. Get over it. If you try to stop *each* article from being shoplifted, your resultant Soviet-style atmosphere will drive your good customers out, probably to your competitor across the street, and cost you more in the end. Much more.
This is what Intuit found out.
Further, there is profit in your software becoming warez. It is called market share. There is little doubt that, if Microsoft had implemented DRM long ago, they wouldn't have the 90% share of desktop OS they do now.
DRM is nothing but the salesmanship of DRM vendors, to software CFO's who believe in the zero-sum game. "Hey the pirates are STEALING 50 Million Worth of your software a year. Implement this in v2.0, and you will get all of that in cold hard cash!"
They end up with losses instead. They don't get that a) The pirates don't have the money to spend, and b) losses from pissed-off current customers who leave.
By their actions, they called me a theif.
When I complained, they said the complaint was because I had "other interests" than using the software.
They ignored my complaints for months.
They reserve the right to do it again if they want.
Now why would I give my money to someone that insults and ignores me? Why would they expect me to?
Nope. I'm gone for good.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
After very vocally bailing out from TurboTax this year (several phone calls to express my displeasure, and informing them I'd think about coming back when they removed DRM), I chose TaxCut as the next best thing based on many writeups and reviews of various other products. I use the Home & Business version, to handle my home business Schedule C.
I'm sorry to report that when it comes to usability and user interface, TurboTax has TaxCut licked, no matter how you look at it. Just a short list:
- Installation and "automatic" update was fairly painful, in that the state form didn't integrate well and it took a couple cycles thru before everything was working right.
- One feature actually took a tech support call to H&R Block, and manually editing a setting file, to get working right.
- the TaxCut interview was a marginal copy of TurboTax's rather slick, and easily readable version.
- The error check complained about things that were not errors, just things that were legitimately missing from various paperwork I had (it apparently wanted me to make up an address to satisfy it, although the W2 had no information where it THOUGHT there should be some - sorry, I'm not going to fudge info like that for the IRS!)
- Every time I saved and came back later after digging up some additional documentation, to even GET BACK to the "ready to file" screen I had to run thru about 30 mouse clicks to questions I'd already answered, and put up with the return error check all over again (including several "errors" that were NOT errors).
- The help functions stunk. There was no real context-sensitive help for tax questions; in TurboTax when you ask for help, you get specific details about that topic or line of the form from numerous documents. In TaxCut you only got help for the entire form, and have to read thru the help to find the relevant portions. None of the help documents were really keyed to the specific line of the tax form.
- Working with the actual forms was non-intuitive, and I was uncertain what would happen at some points - would this form be added, or could I just look at it to see what's there... etc.
- Many more irritations.
Just to be less biased, I should mention that there were a few things I liked better. For example, it was easier to get thru some interview areas where multiple questions could be answered at once, versus TurboTax's rather nitnoid one-thing-at-a-time interview. Despite the install/update/fix the install frustrations, the installation was faster and seemed to leave less crud on my disk. Also, many of the interview questions did a better job of explaining what the question really meant, and a couple times, I changed my answer from previous years because I finally understood the real thrust of the tax form's question. Still, these were small sparks in an otherwise frustrating experience.
As a result, it's going to be a very difficult decision next year. I want (badly want) to spank Intuit for this almost unforgivable fiasco, and really want them to suffer for a couple years because of this. They need to focus on a good product. But on the flip side, they DO already have a good product that by almost all accounts is years ahead of the competition. And furthermore, I want to reward them for listening to (and better yet, acting on) the complaints.
So "what to do, what to do..." - do I stay mad at them, or forgive and move on?
I'm almost hoping that Intuit pulls some stunt again this winter, like trying to sneak in something a bit less obvious but still too DRM-ish, or that H&R Block does add some DRM to TaxCut, to help make my decision for me.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Please note that this is as strong an argument for Free Software as any. I do not know if my own integrity would be as intact as it is if there weren't lots of Free Software already that allows me to go without the temptation of copyright violation.
Let me add one other thing. I think on the EFF/write congress/talk front, I not only advocate resistance to things like DMCA and PATRIOT, but I also favor some IP reform. Consider joining in the effort to roll back copyright terms. Personally, I'd like to see us return to the original 14 year protection. I guess what I'm saying is don't limit your efforts to resisting BAD legislation, advocate some BETTER legislation!
Except that libertarians like ESR don't want the government to intervene via antitrust law, so it doesn't matter how many governments MS pisses off. The only thing that stopped IBM was the internal organizational changes brought about by the ongoing antitrust suit. Otherwise, you'd probably still be using a dumb terminal on your desk right now.
Read the text and watch it spin!
Quicken 2003 is shit. It takes 3 minutes to start up, Crawls when it is running, and tries to send all your bank statements to Quicken.com.
I guess they figure its better to have people pirate their software as long as they can keep mining people financial information. What they don't know is that nobody wants to use Quicken 2003 even for free.
It's usually avialable on the shelf next to QuickTax. It lets you print as many times as you want. It just restricts the number of returns you can prepare to six. Actually, that restiction is only for returns having earnings over 25K. If you want to prepare a return for somebody who made less than 25K, it doesn't count toward the limit. You can even install it on a second computer without activating it and it will allow you to print previously prepared returns.
:)
Actually, I sorta screwed up my system after installing this and I had to re-install it. I thought I was going to have major headaches on the support line convincing them to let me re-activate it, but I didn't need to call them at all. For some reason it just let me activate it twice (online) without complaing.
Aw crap, ninjas!
to free market pressures. This is far different from the non-reaction that can be expected from an evil monopolistic empire. Having over 90% of the OS market share Microsoft is in a position to ram DMR down its customer's throats. Like it or lump it!
For people who believe that no one should dictate to Microsoft how it should do business take a good look at how ineffective free market pressures are on a non-monopoly vs a monopoly. A free market only works on a level playing field.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Probably will again next year, too.
Buy Turbo Tax ever again?
feh...
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
There's no streaming for the purchased AAC files. Adding mp3 streaming to iTunes actually creates a situation that didn't exist before that illustrates an intrusive shortcoming of their DRM.
If you disagree then it must be overrated, redundant or trolling.
Actually, IBM was NOT busted for being a monopoly (in the US that is) in the 70's; they just spent a really long time in court before the whole thing was eventually dismissed. People moaned and whined about what a big bad monopoly IBM was until they lost control of the PC market and everyone forgot about the horrors we'd all suffer if someone didn't do something.
The same thing is gonna happen to MS; it's just a matter of time.
Jared
I can start using Quicken again! No more concientious protesting for /that/ company!
I have no tag line
They've already lost my business. Let this be a lession to other software manufacturers.
Not only did I get bit by a hard disk crash and have to go through Intuit's nightmare of tech support but that wasn't, to me, the worst. Their "file 2 paper rebates" program has me thoroughly ticked. I buy their product to make my paperwork easier, not to do some silly paperwork for them. And to do it twice only shows they just don't have my convenience at the forefront of their planning conferences.
Unfortunately, the alternative packages have the same rebate plans.
Now all we need is that "BSD Is Dying" Troll to replace the word "BSD" with "DRM"....
:o)
"IDC reports that FreeDRM is losing marketshare, alongside OpenDRM and NetDRM..."
etc.
Except that libertarians like ESR don't want the government to intervene via antitrust law, so it doesn't matter how many governments MS pisses off.
I wasn't really referring to pissed governments regulating MS to death. Instead, the governments are among MS' biggest customers. There have been many governments around the world who are at least using Open Source software as a negotiating tactic against MS, and some are considering legislation to encourage consideration of Open Source software in future projects.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
None of those "includes the notion of current dominant market posistion".
Okay, I agree that "like" can be logically interpreted more broadly than I originally intended. I retain my point, though, that MS is in an unstable position and will very likely decline as a company in the near future (five or ten years or so), if they are smart enough to prevent a total collapse.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
As well as telling others to do so as well. I didn't go into the technical details for the non technical people but basically said. There's a possibility that it could cause some computers not to boot after installation as part of its copy protection.
I played the "better safe than sorry" card and it worked. I wonder how much of a spike Taxcut's sales got?
And the market size represented by all the PCs at all the governments in the world is not, I believe, big enough to make Microsoft lose more than a minute or two of sleep at night.
One story earlier this year was that they had sold something like 5 million copies of their software but something like 8 million people used it to file online - that kinda sorta warrants better DRM on the 1:1 license side, but sounds like they're stepping on their disks when it comes to managing that part of it...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
This proves that the claim that protecting media will help profits was signifatly true. Maybe Napster really wasn't hurting the recording industry as bad as the RIAA claimed? Maybe Microsoft sould remove its right managment software from its media players now. I dunno just a guess.
No.
Yes, you are correct. Technically, the sound will not be as good since it is now doubly compressed AAC-MP3 but it is doable. DRM, like locks, really just keeps honest people honest. If you are dead set in committing a crime, be it stealing music or breaking into a house, DRM/lock will not stop you.
Now I'll buy their product next year after skipping this year.
Just looking at TurboTax sales increase is less interesting than comparing it to sales increase of TaxCut. Does anyone have data on this ?
That is stupid! It is based on two lies:
1. that people are stealing as much as software companies say they do.
2. that, being unable to steal copies (because of a perfect copy protection scheme) all of the people who stole the software previously will now buy it.
By Intuit's own estimates half of the copies of Turbo-Tax used to file taxes were stolen. They determined this by tracking the number of returns filed with Turbo-Tax and comparing it to the number of copies sold. They are completely ignoring the fact that one legal copy of Turbo-Tax may be used to compute more than one person's tax return on the same machine. I haven't used Turbo-Tax for a number of years, but the last time I did, I used the same (legal) copy to file my tax return and my ex-wife's. I looked thru the EULA and this was expressly allowed.
Because of this, I think their estimates were way off! The proof is in the pudding: given that the DRM measures were effective (and, if anything, it sounds like they were too effective) why the hell didn't their revenues double? I rest my case.
The second lie is that people who steal the software will be forced to buy it if they can no longer steal it. That's simply not true. People steal software for a number of reasons, not the least of which is just to be able to get away with it. But let's face it; there is always a free alternative available for tax filing. People can go to government web-sites, download the same forms and instruction booklets that Intuit used as a model and file taxes online at ZERO cost.
I suspect that most people that stole Turbo-Tax, when confronted with the copy protection scheme that Intuit implemented, just did their taxes for free. A little more work, but still the same price. Again, the proof is in the pudding: why the hell didn't their revenues double? I rest my case.
Repeat after me: There is no anti-piracy scheme that will collect enough revenue to make up for the ill will of pissed off customers.
Well, naturally, tradeoffs do come in to play. I would still say that copy protection that is trivial to the more educated slashdot user isn't necessarily trivial to the general populace. Forced reg. always works. CD-in-drive works pretty well - it'll get hacked, but most users aren't going to go to the trouble. It could do the WinXP-style "hash your hardware" approach.
I think any of these are better than the "all your boot sector are belong to us" trick.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
How are the digital rights of the customers managed by such a product? /. editors to fall for it.
Remember that 99% of all texts all corporate PC are copyright the respective corporations. About 1% french people (according to official sources) have made music using their computer. That's about 600000 creative artists, in France only. How drm schemes manages their digital rights ?
Drm is such a misnomer... and I feel bad for
Or we must redefine the acronym. I suggest, each time somebody speaks of DRM, to explain it as:
Destructive Restrictions of Mankind. Any better suggestion welcome.
Dear Valued Customer:
In response to your comments on the implementation of product activation technology in tax year 2002 TurboTax(R) software, I wanted to let you know that Intuit will discontinue product activation in next year's TurboTax desktop products purchased at retail or direct from Intuit.
We are absolutely committed to listening and learning from our customers. We clearly need to better understand all of our customers' tax preparation needs and how they use TurboTax.
Okay, here comes the fun part:
While we remain committed to protecting our intellectual property, going forward, we will only introduce digital rights management technologies that maximize customer experience and preserve customer satisfaction.
Sounds like this still leaves them the option of going with another form of DRM. Doesn't sound like a total retraction to me.
Again, thanks for your feedback.
Regards,
Tom Allanson, Sr. Vice President
TurboTax
So, I wonder what parasite program we can expect to see for the 2003 tax year program? I can hardly wait (...to buy Tax Cut again).
DT
Is this thing on? Hello?
Yes, bitching works! As someone pointed out in the polls, if enough people piss and moan about something, well, it just might be changed! Hurray!
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
And the market size represented by all the PCs at all the governments in the world is not, I believe, big enough to make Microsoft lose more than a minute or two of sleep at night.
In most countries, the government is, ironically, the largest employer. I would be that there are tens of millions of computers in service of the U.S. government. This might be enought to get MS' attention.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Maybe Intuit backed down but the big monster from Redmond has yet to fully weigh in and you can bet your booty Bill & Steve's Excellent Molopolistic Adventure will eventually include similar -Pinky and The Brain - DRM crap in things like - in my best Chris Farley voice - Media Player and more IE components that users "need" as a "critical" part of their "stable" "operating systems"!
Tens of millions of computers, perhaps. Tens of millions of new PCs? Not a chance.
See for yourself:
New QuickTax Standard combines the best features of last year's QuickTax and QuickTax Deluxe, including:
* QuickTax is Family Friendly - Prepare up to 6 tax returns on one computer.
You must have printed out at least 6 copies by mistake.
To avoid TurboTax product activation, I used TaxCut this year. I was worried about being able to access my tax information on some future computer.
I didn't like TaxCut. So, if Intuit really won't have copy protection, I will go back to TurboTax next year.
Hi, I'm from Microsoft. I've been following this thread, and I have a question. What is this thing called "customer satisfaction" that you speak of?
So Intuit dropped its product activation scheme...whoopy-fscking-do. Many (most?) of the people who've used their products in the past switched to something else and will need a strongly compelling reason to switch back. After having used TurboTax for the past few years, I used TaxAct for my '02 return. It got the job done just as well as TurboTax would've...and as an added bonus, it's free (as in beer, anyway). Why would I go back to forking over $30+ every year for TurboTax?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Ah - see I'm in Canada, and there are lots of other options than "QuickTax" - the Canadian version of TurboTax.
I didn't buy it this year, instead opting for a web based service.
You should consider switching to Taxcut. I was lucky and didn't buy Turbotax until after I heard about their stupid activation crap.
I bought Taxcut instead. It imported my Turbotax file from last year and was just as easy to use.
I'm sticking with Taxcut.
Ff what you say is true and the free market is self-regulating, then we shouldn't have needed the legal system to "bust" the IBM monopoly - it would have broken itself.
The license is clear in the fact that it can only be installed, at least in it's full, non-trial, version, on one computer. If people don't want a product like that, then they shouldn't waste good money on it. Seems simple. Some called in with valid complaints about the system saying that they had only installed it on one computer and now the program is asking to be activated every time they use it. Most of the problems had more to do with antiquated computers running win95 than anything. Other times the problem was resolved rather fast or the product was refunded fully and an apology was made for it's inability to work on their system. I guess some of that is shoddy programming, not the use of a DRM application.
One other problem that many complained about with activation errors had to do with the customer trying to install the application on a network. This too had been warned of in the license. Some say that once they try and install it they have already opened the box and cannot return it after seeing the license, but once again, the refund is available.
I wonder how many of these people that complained actually tried to get their money back through the no questions asked 100% satisfaction gaurantee.
They also pissed me off when I started receiving spam on a pristine email address that I have not had any spam come in for a couple of years. Now I'm indundanted with spam. In fact, I could point to the day it happened.
Day intuit mail came in
2 hours later
SPAM, everywhere.
Goddam bastards. I sent a snarling letter to them. I had even clicked on the privacy stuff when I first registered. This is completely unforgivable. Grrr.
sri
"I'm a die-hard GNU/Linux and Free Software advocate (even to the point of occasionally prefixing "linux" with "GNU"), but seriously, what alternative to Microsoft exists in the marketplace?"
One word. Apple.
history anyone? do they really teach only 30 years backwards in the backyard-geek-education-system?
standard oil trust ring a bell? dissolved on it's own because people found better ways to do it? NO. other examples exist.
the courts are supposed to keep the monopolies from forming all together, not acting when it's too late. several big mergers have been called off in recent years because of this (they couldn't get permits because it would have created a too big force on the market)or rearranged so that the merging companies sold off certain partions of their companies to not become too big. smart companies try to play nice and not become so out of control that they get chopped up of course, and generally try not to break laws(shocking as it is it's not ok for companies to try to twist the law as far as it will go for profit).
theres places for necessity monopolies.. on small scale(public services for example). but theres places where it hurts the economy and that's why the laws are like that. it was tried and sentenced to be a bad idea.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Now, they sneak some really insidious DRM scheme in and fouls up the machine. The employee is now in a really neat snit with his management now that corporate resources must now be pulled into play to undo the snarls caused by DRM enforcement incompatibilites with other programs.
By EULA, the corporations who infected the victim employees computer are harmless. Its the poor nitwit who bought and installed that software thats gonna get nailed.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
I don't understand your point. This doesn't really support a libertarian viewpoint since the monopoly can do a lot of damage. Look at MS, how much innovation has it stopped/prevented? I really can't wait 10+ years. I prefer a system that prevents such a monopoly from forming (stopping big mergers) and/or prevents it from abusing it's power (mandating certain behaviour).
Besides, the same logic you use can be applied to defend an interventionist system: every company strives to be a monopolist (in the entire market or in a niche through diversification). As such, a total free market will rarely exist for long. The marketplace often self regulates towards monopolies (through price matching for instance). Those might be unstable, but once they break up, new ones will form. A perfect free market is mostly a fluke and thus we need to intervene to stay (reasonably) close to that ideal.
The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
I file all my taxes by hand now. I download the PDFs from the IRS website, print out the relevant forms, tax table, etc. And sit down with no distractions for a couple hours to finish it peacefully. It gets easier and easier every year.
I'm not too concerned about money. I'm more concerned about the time I spend managing my money. Which is why I do this stuff my own way. Without taking anyone's advice or asking for help. And I bet within a year or two I'll have my taxes automated, like my bill payments, so I only have to type the info on my W2 in once and have my 1040 printed out, ready to mail.
Technicly when you get down to the heart of it taxes come out to a couple very easy math problems.
( $money - $tax_bracket_cutoff_amount) * $tax_percentage = $tax
Subtract the amount you paid from the amount you owe. But somewhere in there you need to subtract the taxes you paid to your state, etc. Its really quite simple.
If we discussed this very topic at length I bet we could write a very simple tutorial.
But this is what I want you to think about. How much money does it cost America just to do its taxes? And how much of your life is spent worrying about money and taxes, waiting in lines at the post office, buying Turbo Tax, etc.
When its too late. When we decide that we want to take all that money and time back so we can spend it with our family.. we only have money to thank for all it has done for us.
It has given us the freedom to fully explore all aspects of human nature.
I bought TurboTax, then heard about this before installing it. Passed it on to my brother who doesn't care about taxes once they are done. I purchased TaxCut after using Turbotax since 1988. I will be using TaxCut next year and will not purchase Turbotax.
The old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
Next year's Intuit earnings report will be interesting since so many of there customers have been driven to TaxCut or some other tax package and will NOT be returning to Turbotax. You never want to push your customers to look at the competition!
While most Slashdot readers and other technically-aware folks may feel that their complaints about the intrusiveness of the technology turned them around, that was probably just a drop in the bucket. What most likely happened is that their call-volume spiked with the scads of "normal" mom 'n pop users who got stuck and confused when that technolgy got in the way. Probably spiked such that it cost more in calls than it did even in their most gloomy piracy forecasts.
Kineska: Cinema, soapbox, music & musings
so I don't care
For years I have used Turbo Tax to do my taxes, but because of the DRM insanity this year I decided to use a real accountant. For $125 he e-filed my 2002 state and federal taxes plus looked over my 2001 returns which I e-filed with Turbo Tax. Can you believe I overpaid $400 when using Turbo Tax. I claimed something twice because it was on two different sheets of paper and double taxed myself. Only a human could catch that.
The interaction with the human accountant was excellent, I simply dropped off all the "TAX DOCUMENTS" and he took care of the rest. No waiting on rebates for software or e-file costs. No costly mistakes. No wasted Saturday's.
I say forget the software. I have seen the light. If anyone in South East Michigan needs the name of a good tax account, feel free to send me an email. It's just not worth the hassle anymore to do taxes myself and I appreciate Intuit showing me the light. Even if the software were free next year I wouldn't even bother.
Sure, but that's still a long time. I'm sure you recall the wise words of a Mr. Keynes: "In the long run, we are all dead."
An analogy: SARS is but a blip in the history of human disease, and it'll probably die out on its own anyway. Does that mean we shouldn't try to do anything to contain it?
I suppose you don't have a landline or have cable running in your market?
Legal monopolies, and in the cases of Bellsouth and Comcast (YMMV), there's not a humble or self-correcting thing about 'em. Debatably, things have gotten worse in those industries, and I'd wager it's worse in the overwhelming majority of markets in the States. Much, much smaller scale than MS's near-*global* stranglehold, but it's parallel nonetheless.
Some industries *don't* self-correct after monopoly breakups (Bell Di/Trivesiture comes to mind immediately), abuses or an overwhelming amount of pissed off customers.
The software industry may be on an alternate track than old-school industry as well.
All tax software should be open source, and should be provided by the government. Intuit's abuse shows why. We haven't seen the end of abuse like this. Intuit has showed why governments can have nothing to do with closed source, proprietary software.
The purpose of government is NOT to provide easy profits to one group.
The words "laptop" and "server" are mutually exclusive.
Don't blame others for that hole in your foot. Is that a smoking gun in your hand?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I used the free online TaxAct to file my taxes this year. I had never used anything ther than the Intuit software (or online site, from Linux). As a result, I had no exposure to any of Intuit's competitors, until now. TaxAct was, to me, indistinguishable from Intuit's software and online web site. I did my taxes as quickly and as easily (both Federal, free, and state $8), and got my refund just as fast.
Now that I've seen that there really isn't much difference between the products, I will feel much more comfortable shopping around each year (since there's such a significant price difference). If my experience represents a portion of Intuit's revenue stream, than I don't think that portion will be coming back.
Maybe the next news we hear on the subject will be Intuit suing Macrovision for the loss in sales. After all, I doubt that the company took action solely on complaints (they probably expected that to some degree). They probably measured impact to their bottom line, and I think that was a surprise.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
You need the courts to ensure that the market remains free and market forces can function.
If Microsoft merely charged too much for a product that was buggy, people would find alternatives.
But Microsoft rigs their product to make it look like competitors' products are buggy (DRDos, Office on the Mac, etc, etc). They unfairly tie access to their products to a requirement to buy the products. They lie in court, fake evidence, bully supplies to not deal with competitors. You need to prevent the crimes before the market has a real choice.
The next year or so is critical for MS. They'll either get Open Source software declared illegal somehow and bury it with spurious patents, or they'll have a competitor they can't get rid of and their position of market dominance will go away. (Not to say they won't be huge. IBM no longer rules the market, but they're insanely big still.)
How about just tossing execs in jail if their company breaks the law? And fining them and the company an ammount based on their wealth and expected gain. (Or maybe, based on the ratio between the harm they caused by breaking the law and their competitors wealth. If you ruin a competitor the fine should ruin you.)
Microsoft has continually broken the law and yet nothing comes from it.
DRDos might have been a competitor but microsoft's actions made it look broken. That's misrepresentation at least. Conspiracy to defraud perhaps.
Even in a fair football game, with good meaning teams, you still need impartial referees, someone to act as arbitrator. The purpose of the law, any law, is based on that principal. Laws are written to keep the playing field level. Judges are there to be the imparial and uninterested party to decide what is fair. IBM breached the public trust. It was punished. It is now a very good company to OSS and its customers, in general. The free market DID more to punish IBM than the courts. The free market will end up punishing MS more than the courts as well. Now that there are better developed alternatives to their products (partially due to IBM's contributions, Sun's and Apple's) the market forces will begin to take action. As I said: It is not instant, nor fast, but it works.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Im old enough to know other examples, but my experience has been to stick to more recent examples for the yoots on /.
The courts are NOT supposed to keep monopolies from happening. Monopolies are not illegal by themselves. Regulations are designed to keep monopolies from happening (legislative and executive branch), and the courts get involved when someone ABUSES an otherwise legal monopoly, or to interpret intent of the laws and regulations passed by the other branches. The difference is a bit more than suptle. MS has commited no crime by having 97% of the desktop share, for instance. Its what they do to keep it, and some of the actions along the way. HAVING the monopoly is not illegal.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
There are over 6 different companies I can get my phone service from here in Greensboro, NC, a town of about 280k. This is not the only town. Regulations that push land lines into the virtual public domain and let other companies compete are happening everywhere. Yes, it took a while, but its happening. Like i said, the system works, its just slow. Oh, and the other phone companies suck because they are inexperienced. that will change in time too.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
When I say "mandating behaviour", jail time, fines and break-ups are included (no extra charge) ;)
I just hope the EU has the balls to stop MS.
The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
ah, but having(creating through mergers&etc) a 'monopoly' _is_ illeagal in itself in a non-goverment-endorsed-monopoly field of business!
at least here in europe. theres big mergers stopped/delayed/changed all the time, for example a certain phonecompany has to sell a part of it's gsm business away to competitor to be allowed to merge with another competitor (to keep it from coming too dominant).
and in the states too: " Since the Progressive era, the U.S. government has made most forms of monopoly, and to a lesser extent oligopoly, illegal under antitrust laws." , oligopoly being " the concentration of supply in a few producers". so for ms being a monopoly should be very well enough for breakup.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
ah, but having(creating through mergers&etc) a 'monopoly' _is_ illeagal in itself in a non-goverment-endorsed-monopoly field of business!
But not in America. This is a big misconception here. Anti-trust laws deal with ACTIONS that a monopoly participates in. The monopoly itself is legal, hense, Windows.
and in the states too: " Since the Progressive era, the U.S. government has made most forms of monopoly, and to a lesser extent oligopoly, illegal under antitrust laws." , oligopoly being " the concentration of supply in a few producers". so for ms being a monopoly should be very well enough for breakup.
Here in the states, most utilities are publicly traded corporations that are allowed a monopoly as long as they act in the public good. We have laws that prevent companies from MERGING to form monopolies (DirecTV & Echostar, for example) but there is no law against creating a market and becoming a monopoly (Microsoft). Even AOL was near monopoly at one time, pre internet.
Here in America, we automatically mistrust anything "government endorsed" as well. That is kinda how we got here.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
3. Have integrity. Don't violate copyright. Don't copy software illegally. Don't copy music illegally. Don't copy anything illegally. This is the least popular thing I have to say, but it is IMPORTANT. Every copy is bullet in the other side's arsenal. Evey copy is an argument for them to push legislation that takes away our freedoms. We must not be hypocrites if we want to have the moral ground to expose their hypocrisy.
Amen to that! I never get all those hundreds of thousands of people who see no problem at all in illegally copying CD's, illegally downloading MP3's and movies, etc.
I submitted this story before his posting time. Rejected. And he used it himself. karmawhore.