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Farewell to PDAs, Hello to Smart Phones
Roland Piquepaille writes "Is it time to get rid of your PDA? Apparently yes, according to General Motors, writes Ephraim Schwartz in InfoWorld.The subtitle of this story is pretty clear: "GPS, Java, and push-to-talk give smart phones a clear edge over PDAs." "General Motors announced last week that it will partner with wireless carrier Nextel to use Nextel?s Motorola cell phones with data capabilities to market a field-force management application to its commercial truck fleet customers." GM chose these cell phones because people feel more comfortable with, but also because they can run sophisticated applications. And of course, because they are cheaper than handhelds, both to purchase and to maintain. Check this column for a summary and references."
"a field-force management application" But what I really want is a force-field management application...
Ceci n'est pas un post.
Look at the phones now... it's not that phones are getting the advantage over PDAs, it's that the distinction between a phone and a PDA is slowly disappearing.
I've had the chance to play with some of the new offerings from Sony-Ericsson, Nokia and Samsung and honestly they are barely different from a small Palm.
But the user is still stupid.
Linux 2.6.0-test4. Get it before SCO does!
Is it time to get rid of your PDA? Apparently yes, according to General Motors
Definitely no, according to anybody who wants to partition their personal data into a private space unconnected to snoops, spies, and busybodies.
I prefer to be the only bridge between some information and the outside world. So I say 'no thank you' to the notion that everything on my PDA should be connected in real time to a telephone/digital network every time I make a phone call.
Nope. Not interested.
But let's face it, prodding at that kind of keypad with an index finger is not a convenient user interface. I use WAP quite rarely since it it's usually much more convenient to wait a little while until I have a moment to sit down at a proper computer.
as long as
I plan on
seeing my
====>next
information
in chunks
greater than
====>next
16kb at a
time!
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Is it time to get rid of your PDA? Apparently yes, according to General Motors
but I just got it on Tuesday!! Do I really need to ditch it already? It's soooo sweet!!! =D
This space for rent, inquire within.
GM chose these cell phones because people feel more comfortable with, but also because they can run sophisticated applications.
IMHO the people that are not comfortable with PDA's don't use the calendar and such features on a cell phone. What the cell-phone plan does is let people carry around less bulk. (IMHO people will leave there palms in the car and take there cell phones to the office and not the other way around)
and all PDA's evolve until they can make phonecalls.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
I know they haven't officially linked mobile phones to cancer (but hey what doesn't cause cancer these days?) - however personally I am not that keen on having a PDA that irradiates me every time I use it.
There are already a few phones out there that combine a regular cell phone and the functionality of a PDA. While I like the idea of carrying one device instead of two, I hate every signle one of these phone PDA's that I have tried. Why? Mainly because the PDA functions aren't very good. I guess that phone companies are lousy at making PDA's, and they seem to focus on phone-related functionality.
Here's what I would do if I were them: start with a really good PDA, much like the current line of PDA's from the well-known brands. That means you have Java, you could add GPS and whatever, you already have an address and phone book, and a means to enter phone numbers and SMS messages easily. To add phone functionality, all you need is a GSM/GPRS module, and perhaps a mike and loudspeaker.
Another thing: PDA's are fully programmable. Here's a tip for mobile data providers, we don't need proprietary mobile data applications, we just need data transport. Once we have that and our programmable PDA's, we can build our own apps. We don't have or want to rely on silly protocols such as SMS or MMS either: just let us send regular emails, perhaps with an attachment.
In other words, try making a cell phone out of an organiser, not the other way around.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Obviously whoever made this decision for GM never actually wrote an app on the Nextel platform! Compared to a PDA, they're borderline useless.
That was when I got myself a Nokia 7160. It doesn't have all the features of the Palm but it's a heck of a lot more convenient. I also like the small form factor. I've been holding out on ugrading it because I don't really care for the wide "PDA with built in cell phone" format. I much prefer the phone with built in PIM functgions. Today most of these are lagging in performance.
I used to think I wanted a cell phone and PDA all-in-one device. I've waffled again and flipped back.
I genuinely like my m125. But hold it up to my ear and talk? Nope, it's not a comfortable size and shape. My phone has a scheduler and various unused contact management features, mostly because it's a pain to input.
I drool at the gadget stores each time I see a new version, but so far I've been disappointed in what I've gotten my hands on.
My current thought: Bluetooth running from a PDA to a bug in my ear would be really cool. But cool does not make practical, and I expect to be disappointed with that, as well.
I think I'll stick with single-purpose tools that do their one job well, and hope that everyone gets their poop in a pile and offers good interoperability. It's a time honored tradition!
Does anyone know if this is the Linux powered motorola phone?
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
"Sir, please put away your phone while you are on this flight!"
"But, it's my organizer..."
"Sorry, it's a phone. Put it away."
"field-force management application"
;)
Is this something that will let them fire/layoff people remotely? That's what "force management" tends to mean to me.
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
hehe, you said something that sounded like semen.
Why is that every has to be integrated into phones? I don't like phone, I don't like talking to people on the phone. If people want to talk to me they can write me an email and arrange a meeting.
My friends have learn (most of them anyway) that I answer emails faster than phone calls. Phones a so intrusive. Emails let me answer people when I have the time. When people call you they almost always seem to think that you have the time to talk to them. SMS is okay, except that phonepads wheren't really designed to write messages on. I would prefer a PDA with internet connection.
its stupid to continue developing smart phones, each new phone has its own OS, interface, programs and accessories, all incompatable with previous and the next generation. Eventually they might be as good as PDA's but why not stick GPRS on a Zaurus and be done with it for god sakes ! , free software, WiFi, compact flash and SD storage, infrared, touchpad and keyboard.
Phones have to last for several days or even a week always on and without recharge, have to be easy to carry and easy to make and receive calls.
PDAs have to be easy to use, powerful, flexible, colour, large screens. When you add these features to phones, you lose the easy to carry and battery lifetime features of phones.
All of the smartphones i've seen have made poor PDAs and poor phones.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Some people will want a single unit that is a combination of a cell phone and a PDA, and that's fine with me. I'm sure those kinds of combo units will become increasingly available.
However, I don't want a combination unit. Why? My cell phone is small, stylish, and convenient. Adding a reasonably sized PDA screen to it would make it bulky and inconvenient, at least for me.
I know a lot of people who feel the same way. Therefore, I think that stand alone cell phones, stand alone PDA's, and combination units, will all exist and flourish in the marketplace.
Saying that the PDA is dying is just plain foolishness.
-Teckla
1) Combo will either be too big for an ideal phone or too small for an ideal pda.
2) PDAs should have long battery life. But they don't when part of a power-guzzling cellphone.
3) Can't talk and tap at the same time. Unless you've brought along the earpiece attachment. But then there you go carrying two objects again.
4) PDA/cellphones usually seem to be less expandable or a few OS versions behind the latest solo PDAs.
5) In the US, switching to a different wireless carrier means switching to a different phone. With a combo unit, you'd have to switch to a different PDA too.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
Let's not mistake the decision of the upper management of some large corporation for a good decision, or one with outstanding technical merit. GM does swing a lot of weight and could influence the availability of apps or even the choices of other enterprise customers, but that doesn't mean they've actually made a more informed choice than anyone here --- in fact, I think it's unlikely.
I am using an Orange SPV at the moment and I simply cannot invisage buying a PDA with it around. My only small concern is that it lags a little and that the text input is still num pad. But hey thats life , i just dont have the cash for a P800
Extended Warranty? How can I lose!
In real life, it's not the technology that's being used that dictates success or failure. Adding layers upon layers of technology doesn't improve anything, unless that tech is used to give the result an edge it otherwise could not have.
In this case, Java/WebSphere has been available for PDA's for a long time, but isn't being used, because it doesn't add anything useful. Other technologies are being used just as much on PDAs as on cell phones, when actually useful.
Yes, phones may win, but Occam's razor tells me that this is because people are going to carry the bleeping things around anyhow.
The day I can hold a cell phone to my ear AND take a note on it at the same time, I may find that I might not need a PDA.
1. I don't want a PDA-size screen on my mobile phone.
2. I don't want a mobile phone-size screen to play games/schedule meetings/browse the internet/read e-mail/watch movies/watch pictures from my digital cam/manage computers through VNC.
I mean, it really stinks as a PDA, I've got one[1]. Better use the Symbian Epoc OS.
Oh, wait, that's exactly what they're doing...
http://www.symbian.com/
Except Motorola of course, but then, look at the other decisions the Motorola management have been making over the last decade.
[1] There is one single piece of software that makes the Zaurus worth using and that's freeware which doesn't come built in; IQNotes.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
I can get all the functionality of a PDA from a piece of paper. The only reaon I keep the Toshiba e330 I won is that it IS a fairly decent MP3 player. OTherwise it would have been on Ebay. The last thing I want anyway is to be constantly wired up so that idiots can call me and instant message me about problems they could solve themselves if they used their brains instead of their phones. Now go outside and play.
Vote Quimby!
Who wants to talk nowadays when you can just e-mail or im? duh...
I got a Smartphone last week (seems to be based on a scaled down version of Windows CE).
For several years I've used different Palm PDA's with Nokia cell phones. But the Smartphone actually does both things well enough (i.e. being a PDA and being a phone), and it is small and stylish enough not to be a nuisance.
I know, I know, a lot of you will rush in to tell me how Microsoft Smartphones suck and so on, but I think that the UI of the Smartphone is really good and in some ways innovative and simplified when compared to a Palm. Specifically I like the search-while-typing feature (I don't know what this is called). Let's say I know I've called a number, but only remember parts of it, then I can enter the part I remember, and the phone simoultaneously searches tro my call history and shows matching numbers. It does the same thing in my Contact list. It's great, and lets me be as unstructured as I want, because it helps me look up the information later anyway.
After a week the Smartphone has two issues that makes it less than optimal:
- All the features and the great screen drains a lot of power, standy time is maximum two days. I'm used to 30 days between charges on my Palm.
- Entering data with the phone keyboard is tedious. The SonyEricsson P800 has a little pen you can use, and I wish that the Smartphone had the same thing.
If somebody manages to solve those two problems, I guess Smartphones - whether they're based on a MS OS or another OS - have a great future. At least in my pocket.
Full PDAs teamed with a portable keyboard can do some pretty useful things and still fit in your pocket that smart phones can't replace because of their screen size and limited input:
- E-mail
- Web browsing (real web pages, not super-slim versions tailor made for phones)
- Instant messaging (for serious corporate use, not I <3 U JEN TTYL K)
- Document editing
- Reading more than a paragraph of text
In the article, even Ephraim admits he's stretching it to say PDAs are really in danger. "Many white collar workers also struggle with handheld operating systems...". He provides no basis for this claim, and even if he did it obviously wouldn't apply to techies, probably something closer to secretaries.And I don't think we needed a summary for such a tiny article.
These limitations (and I know that not all Palm-style machines have them all, but it's a common impression) don't apply to all palmtops. Mine has a keyboard you can touch-type on; I've used it to write articles for publication, large applications, etc. It has a 640x240 screen that's plenty wide enough to read books, web pages, spreadsheets, etc. Its OS (EPOC, the forerunner of Symbian OS currently powering many mobile phones) is exceptionally stable -- apart from hardware failure, I don't think it's crashed once. Although I have a powerful desktop machine, I only connect to it for backups; everything I use my Psion for stays there, and I've never felt the need to sync with anything else. I have lots of powerful applications at my fingertips: office apps that can exchange files with Word and Excel, route planning/GPS, capable web browsers, a Doom engine and many other games, you name it.
People are often amazed by the things I've got to hand: the Concise Oxford Dictionary, Brewer's, Webster's, the Jargon File, and loads of similar reference works; three different Bible translations; MBs of fiction and other books; the core data from the IMDB, etc. Most of the time it's my only email client, and also my only Off-Line Reader for the CIX BBS, holding well over 100,000 messages -- both connecting via my mobile phone as well as land lines. It has Java, Perl, Python, and also a powerful built-in language called OPL (recently open-sourced); and it's possible to do full-scale development on it (I know coz I'm co-author of the OLR mentioned before). It uses standard TrueType &c fonts, displays PDFs, connects with FTP and telnet, plays back MP3s, and loads more. In short, it's a fully-fledged, powerful computer in its own right.
I mention all this not to show off (well, maybe just a bit :) but to show that there's much more to pocket computers than most people think. (Lots of folks, especially in the USA, have never heard of Psions, which is a shame. Although they're no longer made, second-hand ones are highly sought-after.) And yet most people still think of a palmtop as something just for looking at a few agenda entries, checking a few addresses, and playing a few games.
If that's all you think a PDA is good for, then no wonder people think you can squeeze it all onto a phone! But for those of us who really use our palmtops, this seems a waste, a travesty of what mobile computing could be.
OTOH, maybe things aren't so depressing. It's possible that once all those simple PDA functions have been transferred to phones, that there will be room for some market differentiation, and that more powerful palmtops might become more popular. When Psion pulled out of the consumer market, their message was effectively "everyone wants Palms; too few people want something more powerful". Maybe if all of those light users move onto something even smaller (in every respect), there will be enough of us left for it to be worth making powerful pocket computers again.
Well, I can hope...
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
Frankly, I don't really see the point. I walk when I want to make journeys. I can carry things in my hands. Lets face it, pushing on the handles of that 'cart' thing with the 'wheels' on is not a convenient user interface... and who needs this newfangled fire stuff to keep warm? It's usually more convenient to just run around in circles for a bit.
Come on, guy. In your pockets at this moment you probably have three or four different devices (watch, PDA, phone, GPS, MP3 player, radio, camera, whatever) which have different incompatible batteries and need different incompatible chargers and plug into different incompatible incompatible accessories. So when you go anywhere you have to take this huge mess of kit. And at the end of it none of them are as good as a proper computer.
It does not have to be like this. You don't need half a dozen different information appliances with half a dozen different kinds of radio comms. You need one. It can't use (just) 802.11x, that's too energy-hungry, and it can't use (just) bluetooth, that's too short range. But it can just use GSM or GPRS. Yes, OK, the user interfaces still need some work (although I think QTopia is mostly fine); but we're getting very close to one mobile information device for all purposes. It's got to be good news.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
My girlfriend broke up with me on my cell phone, so now I'm using my Palm!
And of course, because they are cheaper than handhelds, both to purchase and to maintain
I wonder if this is because the smart phones are subsidised by the phone networks, who make additional income from a contract and services (voice, SMS, MMS, GPRS, downloading games/ringtones etc.. and any other features that can be used from the smartphone).
I'd doubt that the Bill Of Materials is much different for both device...
-- Mike
I wonder when the cell phones will get embedded printers, scanners and DVD-burners (keeping already embedded PDAs, camera and MP3 players)? That's the direction they push the cell phone market, isn't it?
Less is more !
I'd like some sort of modular notebook/small laptop where the phone slid into it. The deal with these different devices is you need the different devices, or all of them, laptop, pda, phone. Now if they integrated with each other in one case, hot swappable somehow. Need a full laptop with a real keyboard? Swell, it's there. Just want the phone part, it's there, either leave it plugged into the laptop where it's your wireless modem and/or phone, or slide it out, carry it with you. The pda part of the combo contains the entire hard drive of the laptop,plus the main cpu stuff, this slides out as well. All assembled,and close proximity to each other, perhaps they all communicate with each other with bluetooth.
Kinda of like the docking concept, but integrated in a nice laptop-like case/chassis that has the full size keyboard and the lcd screen, most of the stuff that does the real work is in the phone and pda.
Action: Takes visorphone module out of handspring
"There. Happy? Now, smeg off."
Such works in reverse:
"Sir, we don't allow electronic shopping lists in Menards"
"Its my phone."
Action: Dials Menards store. Asks for Tony. Tony is paged. I walk over to where Tony takes call.
"ITS MY PHONE!"
Action: Hangs up on Tony.
Isn't that what the Handspring Treo is? I'm not sure what can be done about the SMS problem, except that most carriers are building out their web services and may offer "normal" email one day. Old Palm software suffers from it's legacy roots as a plug it into the PC to work thingy. It would "sync" with an email client instead of having it's own mail agent. PDA's like the Zaurus are finally breaking away from that model.
Another thing: PDA's are fully programmable. Here's a tip for mobile data providers, we don't need proprietary mobile data applications, we just need data transport. Once we have that and our programmable PDA's, we can build our own apps.
These new gadgets use jvm's. Take your pick, java or PDA programming. If only someone would make a cell phone out of the Zaurus.
The reason old PDA's are more expensive than cell phones to maintain is that it had to work with a PC, generally a M$ PC. Keeping the sync programs working was a hastle. Though I'm shocked to hear that it cost more than an actual service like cell phone, I can believe it. Things that are a pain for an individual are bank breaking when deployed by the hundreds. Even if you toss out the M$ desktop, you are still stuck with the PDA. I've had trouble syncing my Handspring Visor even with things as easy and good as KDE stuff. It's just another example of the intentional waste propriatory software brings. Devices that avoid the desktop are cheaper, though this is a high price to pay in itself. A device using free software talking to a free desktop would be the cheapest solution of all.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I like seperated devices which act as one together.
... and the java programs on the PDA as external stored programs, accessible on the phone if fitting, ignored otherwise.
Just like a PC + mouse + display are 3 devices but get really usefull as combined: computer.
I expect my phone to be very smal, enough power to phone for 4 to 6 hours and standby time for 3 days or more. It should be easy wearable at my belt or in my trousers pocket. Just liek the Motorola Star TAC or ist similar looking successors.
My PDA should be bigger, I dont want such a smal display like UTMS phones have on my PDA, neither I want a bigger phone to have a bigger display.
My PDA shold be a extension to my personal computer, having snapshots of my important data on it.
I expect PDA and Phone to interact seemlessly via bluethoos, where the phone recognices the adressbook on the PDA as extension
My PDA however should not need to get configured to be internet or local network aware. It should just recognize my phone as network adapter. Also via Bluetooth.
I like to work with that part of the combo I find more appropriated at the certain moment in time.
I dont want a mixed beast where several teams of hardware and software developers work hard to put the combined dissadvantages of both kinds of devices into one device.
Regards,
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I agree.
I've had my Kyocera 6035 for over a year now, use it every day, and love it. The only things that I would change are 1)add a Color screen , and 2) get a somewhat smaller form factor. It's about the same size as a regular palm pilot, which makes it huge in terms of current gen cell phones.
When it gives up the ghost, I will move straight to the 7100, or to an equivalent *nix based one.
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."
~Epictetus
No text editor is complete untill it's a web browser. Conversly, no web browser is complete untill it can edit text. In this case we see that no PDA is complete untill it's a cell phone and no cell phone is complete untill it's a PDA. Free softare projects are more complete than their propriatory counterparts which bloat disproportionatly.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
You're going to end up with reduced quality of both components. You'll have a substandard PDA that eats your cellphone battery. If you throw in a digital camera as well, it'll probably be 640x480 at best, eat your battery, and...y'know, decent lenses and flashmemory have mass and volume. Me, I'd rather have a light, easily-accessible cellphone that I actually will bother to carry on walks and stuff. And if it's stolen, I haven't lost my organizer too. If I ever have the inclination, the need, and the money at the same time, I'll look into a PDA. And as for digital cameras, often the second or third device in a Frankenstein handheld, I like to have at least 2.2 megapixels. So I can have my pictures printed without lines through them.
I guess a big part of this is GM/Nextel spin. The device has a lot of PDA functionality. But a smart phone is "less threatening", so they call it that even if drivers mostly use it to access the network and run Java apps. Though I seem to recall that Nextel's network is CDMA, and my experiences with data over that kind of network is not positive.
Contrast this with UPS's deployment of a super-connectable PDA. Not to mention the recent release of bunch of new PalmOS devices. Some of which, yes, are smart phones. But when you base a smart phone on PalmOS or Symbian, do you have a phone with PDA functions or a PDA that makes phone calls? Not that I like either -- I want two separate devices, connected by Bluetooth.
1) Combo will either be too big for an ideal phone or too small for an ideal pda.
For me, at least, this isn't an issue, as one combo device is smaller and more convenient than separate PDA + cellphone. It still fits in most of the pockets of my pants; jackets; backpack.
2) PDAs should have long battery life. But they don't when part of a power-guzzling cellphone.
Not always true. My Kyocera 6035 will run for approx 4 days with moderate phone and PDA use. If the phone is turned off, it'll last for over a month. (like when I'm travelling abroad and don't have mobile service) For trips in the US, I just bring a charger, like I would if I had a solo mobile phone.
3) Can't talk and tap at the same time. Unless you've brought along the earpiece attachment. But then there you go carrying two objects again.
Untrue. Most combo devices have speakerphones built in. In addition, it's much easier to stick a headset in your pocket than a separate device. Plus, you can put them in very small pockets. Jabra especially makes tiny headsets.
4) PDA/cellphones usually seem to be less expandable or a few OS versions behind the latest solo PDAs. Yes, but so what? On the flip side, most are upgradeable. However, this is an issue whenever you buy a small form factor device. Comparing the 6035 to the 7135, the main differences are: lack of color screen, less RAM (8MB), no expansion card, slower processor, and PalmOS 4.x (7135 uses PalmOS 5.0). The PDA / phone features are almost identical, and are for all for the Palm-based devices. Where you get the differences is in the integration of the phone and PDA. I love for example, to be able to bring up a restaurant in Vindigo and dial it directly from the application. Or, using a small yellow pages app to find out the address and phone number of a place, then get maps and directions. Or having the contact lists in my phone and PDA be the same one. Plus, the phone acts as a modem for other PQAs, email, and web browsing.
5) In the US, switching to a different wireless carrier means switching to a different phone. With a combo unit, you'd have to switch to a different PDA too.
Not always true. But, even if you do, so what? That's just part of the decision making process of switching carriers. When you do that, you usually have to get a new phone. However, you can often get a free, or really cheap phone, then switch your plan over to your "old" phone fairly easily.
Todd
-- !todd erases a red dot! I steal music on the internet.
This is so ridiculous. Java is the phone's killer app? I have a visorphone, and it has a stable of useful, freely available apps that run sans java. Telnet, a browser, and about a zillion other kinds of *ware that I can try out, without buying it from a freakin' phone company.
Granted, it's great to have a stable, widely-developed platform built-in, but it remains to be seen what it will be used for. Geotargeted coupons? Kill me now. "Excuse me, my wife's in labor, I have to take this call...$5 OFF THE STARBUCKS YOU'RE DRIVING BY RIGHT NOW"
ok, so there are vast commercial possibilities, but open- and closed-channel radio systems have been available for many years; only now are they economically feasible for consumers. With my visorphone, I can call anyone in my phone book in 3 or 4 clicks...but with 'click to talk' I can bring that down to one click. It's a CB radio!
What they're saying is, now it's convenient for them to try and sell us more shit we don't need, services we never asked for, and new ways to nickel and dime us. and a new phone every 8 months.
I mean really, selling ring tones, downloadable games, and SMS for a nickel a message? Thanks but no thanks. Fight the upgrade cycle. Get a couple extra batteries for your next phone and keep it for years.
I think it's obvious that the merger of the cellphone and PDA has been going on for some time.
After all, the Handspring Treo incorporates the function of the Handspring Visor PDA into a GSM-compatible cellphone; Samsung last year released a cellphone with similar features.
I expect within 2-3 years many high-end cellphones will be like the T-Mobile Sidekick, with full PDA functions complete with small keyboard on one unit with a separate headset; it will sport Bluetooth functions that allow the unit to operate in a Bluetooth-equipped automobile in a true hands-free fashion.
At least in the US cell carriers love being in total control of "their" hardware. So even if you have a very powerful hardware platform capable of doing MP3/GPS/browsing, the networks might limit what you can do with it within some artifical pricing model that extracts money from you for any useful bit of computing you perform with it. I'm thinking of some of the current Java phones that have no local means of synchronization and require you to go through the carrier for uploading any apps into the phone--for a price.
I agree, the Phone and PDA should be the same and I am planning to merge my old Palm m100 with the Palm OS compatible cell phone. Palm still lags behind in integrating PDA and phone and latest Palm Tungsten W lacks flip cover with the earphone. Luckily, Treo 270 exists and it is an excellent PDA/phone.
What's the brightness knob on my TV for? I turned it up all the way, but the shows are still stupid.
is this.
It's one less thing I have to lug around with me. I doubt smart phones will be able to do anything like this anytime soon.
I just wish my Handspring would act as a phone, play MP3s and connect to the 2-meter ham repeaters around town. That'd be three fewer pieces of junk I'd have to lug around with me. But, I'd probably have to recharge its battery every 20 minutes or so.
Someone you trust is one of us.
The T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition
Uh, maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the device they're describing the same as Research in Motion's Blackberry ?
Ruby on Rails Screencast
The concept of the personal area network, connected by bluetooth, is finally implemented. Samsung will be releasing the first such device suite later this year, at which point things will probably start to come to fruition.
The problem is this: turning a PDA into a phone keeps it as a decent PDA, usually, but makes a terrible phone from a user interface standpoint...touchscreen buttons are a pain in the ass, and nobody wants fingerprints all over their PDA screen. And it's a pain to hold the entire damned thing up to your head all the time too. Phones with PDA functionality built into them suck because there's such a small screen and such a terrible interface from a PDA perspective...no handwriting recognition, no keyboard, and limited options for accessories. The problem is that what works best as a form factor for one blows dead monkeys as a form factor for the other, and as PDAs become even more powerful, the divergence will become greater.
So the best bet is to try to re-examine the total personal information and data exchange needs of a standard individual, and consider a solution based upon current technology, rather than technology from a decade ago. We now have larger, better screens, wireless headsets for cellphones, smaller phones, powerful PDAs, and a growing market of portable digital music players. And best of all, we now have a way to unite myriad portable devices wirelessly at short range using bluetooth.
I say that GM is half-right...the current way of looking at portable devices is not much longer for this world. However, they are also half-wrong...a "smart phone" is NOT the solution. The wireless personal gateway/bluetooth-enabled PDA/bluetooth headset/bluetooth file server are the solution.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Case in point: I am using my treo now to enter this message and browse slashdot while waiting for my oil change to be completed.
"My God, this must be a truly remarkable corn chip, to be so widely and confidently touted."
I just recieved my 7135 smartphone, and oh baby is it sweet. Only a little bigger than a Motorola StarTac too. 65k color screen, Palm OS 4.1. What's interesting is the phone itself is a palm application - if a call comes in while you're firing off an e-mail or playing Lemmings, it'll pause that app so you can take the call. Even upload MP3s as ringers ;)
h one_series.htm
:)
;) I gotta buy the little keyboard I guess.
Supports the standard Palm OS TCP/IP stack over 1xRTT. You can do whatever you want. SMS, MMS (Soon) WAP or open up the included browser and surf with full HTML/SSL/Javascript support. Renders most pages extremely well. There is a bevy of networking apps available for PalmOS as well - from VNC to MSN Messenger.
http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7100_phone/7100_p
Other ramblings:
- Pooploads of software available (obviously)
- Screen is crisp and clear, even in direct sunlight
- Very annoying delay when pressing buttons to dial a number - easily fixed by reconfiguring the touchtone sound to the standard palm "click" sound. (they should really fix this with the next software update)
- New 1GB SD cards are on the way; Throw a couple of Family Guy episodes on it! (Ahem or whatever "cultural" videos you want)
- This thing is solid. Very sturdy construction and a polished insignia on the outer case just below the external caller ID display on the hinge area
- The external speaker is very high quality. Ringers and MP3's sound very crisp, almost stereo-like. Surprises the hell out of people
- Coolest thing I've done so far: Reconfigured the company mail server via SSH over 1xRTT
I love this thing! Can't you tell?
Mo
The form factor is approximately the same as the SPH-A460 that I currently use, which is wehat I was waiting for, as the large form-factor smartphones seemed too awkward for daily use. I just wonder what the battery life will be like....
http://www.j-phone.com/JSH53/sh53.html
Okay, Ported playstation games but they have quiet a few companies porting their older PS1 titles to it including Sega and Namco.
The salient points are these:
- Phones are more important to more people than organizers. That's the one overriding rule. Organizers are very handy, and even indispensable for a very small percentage of people.. but everyone needs a phone. Everyone. Soon 'mobile phone' will seem redundant I think as everyone will just get used to nearly all phones being some sort of wireless handset.
- PDAs are better at hand-driven input. I preferred the pen/stylus thing myself but the thumb keyboard (ala RIM) actually works surprisingly well for many people, and is actually a shallower curve than Graffiti.
So in the end I think you basically end up with people who have major organizational needs carrying both, and some getting by with the phone organizer because their needs are modest (me = T68i w/Bluetooth does nicely), and most of the rest will just use their phones, period (see point 1 above).
I used to think something like a Treo was pretty ideal until I realized that a human habit comes into play. A phone is, technically, more adaptable; all you need is a mic and a speaker somewhere near your head. This is easily accomplished via your standard hands-free Jabra or whatever. So a PDA with phone capability makes more sense logically, as you cannot surf or check your info with the device pressed up against your head! The phone can shrink to go inside your ear.
But... people don't like doing that. They don't like the little dangly thing, they'd rather just hold a phone up to their head like they've always done. It's habit. The problem is, it is this very thing that separates the phone form-factors from the PDAs; this head-centric interface that percludes a lot of other simultaneous activities that you might perform with the device.
But it doesn't matter. Habit wins out, and phones (or the phone part) is always more important in the end.
What we really need: voice-to-text translation in the phones. If my phone could write down for me 'lunch with Dave on Tuesday' as I simply spoke the words, that would really leapfrog a lot of organizer functionality (not necessarily PDA functionality, but for calendars, notes, etc. it would be killer).
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
What kind of super-secret things do you have in your PDA that somebody would want desparately enough to hack into your phone for?
:-)
The point is not what there IS, but the potential damage/loss because of the open availability of that information.
I can use the metaphor of an open house, "why lock your home, what do you have that is valuable?". Or furthermore, why don't you live in a completely transparent house where passer-bys can see what you are doing? What can be so interesting about your life that people would want to see?
Now in light of those questions consider why webcams are so popular. People like to sneak around, look where they are not supposed to. Voyeuristic tendencies are natural just because of the human curiosity (the difference is, some place their curiosity in "clean" areas, while others don't)...
In other words, it's mainly a matter of choice. If you want to leave yourself open, then do so. But some technologies (e.g. DRM) are potentially limiting in the sense that they remove the option of keeping your privacy if so you wish. But even the most boring person has something worth checking out, or else TV would be much smarter.
The ENIAC Demo Competition
Are a bluetooth enabled PDA, Phone and a real comfy headphone.
Make the phone as small as you can, with no buttons (save for Power and BT interface), speakers, screen or mike, with as much battery as you can.
Then supply a phone interface app for PalmOS/PocketPC/Linux PDA's and you're set to go.
You can hide your phone anywhere on your person as you'll never have to reach for it, you can do every wireless data thing on your PDA and take teh calls on your headset and use it for mp3 playback as well.
Taht way, everything is at it's optimal size, and they all don't drain 1 battery. If the phone dies you still have your PDA and vice versa.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
I've had mine for about a year now.
_ se ries.htm
http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/kysmart/kysmart
I don't want a cell phone? (I don't)
But I do want a PDA (waiting until they get those foldable screens)
Oh well, I smell a niche market!
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
My Kyocera 6035 will run for approx 4 days with moderate phone and PDA use. If the phone is turned off, it'll last for over a month.
;-)
Interesting. (And informative +1). But what I was thinking about is the inevitable situation where your cellphone's battery dies. I realize this doesn't happen to super well-organized and methodical people who recharge every night, but it's happened to me on more than a few occasions. I don't wan't to be sans PDA because I've used up the battery yakking. And I suppose one could carry a spare battery around, but again, that defeats the purpose of consolidating the objects.
Most combo devices have speakerphones built in.
Sorry, I should've said, "Can't talk and tap at the same time without being a dick.
Just my opinion, but I think speakerphones of any kind are extremely rude unless the phones are full duplex *and* you're in a secluded location like a car so as not to annoy others *and* the other person can hear you very clearly. Cell phones have the first part covered but if you're driving you certainly ought not be tapping and talking too, and as for the last part, "very clearly" and "cellphones" don't really belong in the same sentence.
But, even if you do, so what? That's just part of the decision making process of switching carriers.
I see. Combo phones aren't inconvenient, but even if they are, so what, just deal with it, eh?
Somehow that's not up to the standard of your other answers. The "so what" is that if your new carrier doesn't support the old phone, you're back to using two gadgets again, or you're forced to buy a new combo phone. And they are much more costly than regular phones. The upshot is that a combo phone is just one more way to potentially "lock" you into one carrier. And realizing that is "just part of the decision making process of" deciding whether you want a combo phone in the first place.
Nevertheless, you make some good points and I might even consider trying a combo phone which is on the smaller side and not too expensive. If the PDA part isn't up to snuff, at least I'll have a phone with large selection of downloadable games.
BTW, my understanding of a FUDder is that it is someone who deliberately is trying to woo people away from the beloved gadget/OS/programming language out of malice or some hidden agenda. Not just anybody who happens to raise issues about the subject. I could care less if everyone buys combo phones, in fact it would surely be a Good Thing since it would lower prices in general and lead to an improvement in the areas where the devices are lacking.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
What is menards, and do they allow paper shopping liste?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
I have had various PDA's over the years. Everything from Newton, Palms, and finally an IPAQ. I even have a V37 on the way(free offer from MSDN). But recently I bought a Nokia 3650. It syncs with my computer via bluetooth and has proven to be extremely useful. It isn't quite a PDA but close enough where I don't carry the ipaq around anymore. It has contacts(duh) and calendar. With WAP and the amazing support that Symbian has for JAVA and Web technologies it is a great replacement. They just brought out AvantGo and Tipic has a Jabber client which gives me IM to anything. So in short, this phone rocks. Many have slammed the number pad, but once you get use to it, you realize it is better and easier to use. Beyond that I love the loudspeaker mode.
Mix all this with TellMe (VoiceXML services) and eventually VOIP, I can totally see PDA's vanishing. They are too big, and most the time you really just want to display information. So a nice screen is still needed, but as display only.
Yep, it could happen, I already have ditched the PDA.
I lusted over the Kyocera 7135 for a long while.
... I can play Monkey Island! You can't deny that has staying power when choosing a device.
10 months, following a botched delay, horrible release, huge price and software conflicts.
Then the same week it was due to come out Palm unleashed the Zire71.
The Zire71 was $200 cheaper($100 after contract), 4x resolution, better battery, faster processor, newer OS, 5-way pad, camera and the Palm Universal Connector.
The 7135 had a CDMA phone for use on Verizon and more buttons.
Guess which one I splurged on?
I got that Zire71, and I couldn't be happier with it. For months I tried to convice myself I didn't "need" that 320x320 screen, but...
Now all I am doing is buying a $50 cable to connect my Palm to a lengthy list of compatible phones(Some I can get for free). That way I'm not tied to any upgrading of one thing.
The current Smartphone market is crap, full of horrible batteries, software flaws, misunderstood airline attendants and high prices.
And don't dare mention PPC smartphones, I'm a Palm man, and I will always be.
I used to have a Palm and then upgraded to an e740 which I had paired with a SE T68i. This let me browse the net, have PIM functionality, check my email, see if anybody was about on my IMs etc etc. The problem was having to carry around two things, travel with two chargers - I started leaving the PDA behind when I was out and about.
I've now replaced both with a P800. It's a little bit bigger than my old phone, but still easily fits in my pocket and more importantly does absolutely everything I want. Whilst the traditional PDA does boast more features such as Office document editing etc, the small screen and input difficulties made it much more trouble than it was worth. The P800 to my mind is really the first genuinely useful combi PDA/phone and they're only going to get better.
That, and I can't imagine a so-called "Smartphone" ever living up to expectations. Perhaps in ten years, but those who think "Smartphones" are a blitzkrieg against PDAs are living in the far future.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
I switched from a Palm IIIc to a Sony Ericsson P800 and I'm very happy with the smartphone. Now I just have to get a 128MB Memory Stick Duo so I can put a full length MP4 movie on my phone...
I assume that
The only thing I ever wanted was a GSM integrated with my IIIc. That's it.
Sure, now I want high rez (480-320), dedicated mp3 support, removable storage and graffitti area, but just a IIIc with an internal GSM would have done it for me too.
And I've been saying that since I got my palmpilot...which is in the first month the IIIc was available. Palm/3com/whoever is just plain fucking dumb not to have done it since then (and no, Tungsten C is shit...I do not want a phone/pda without graffitti or which only work with a blooming headset!).
Palm just hasn't a fucking clue what the market wants....and for that, they deserve to go tits up.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
So, GM decides to partner with NexTel and market a fleet tracking solution, and this bozo thinks it's the end of seperate PDAs and cel phones?
The application is hardly new. My company uses NexTel phones and web site in conjunction with an in-house application to track a fleet of trucks. Several other companies (@Road?) offer GPS based truck tracking solutions.
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine, quam turpe nescire
-- Cicero
To those who believe that mobile phones will kill PDAs... remove your SIM cards and turn on your phone. What do you do next? I turn on my PDA and I'm still using it. You cannot. Here's another trick... don't pay your monthly phone bills, I won't as well. We now can't use our phones... but I can still use my PDA. Sucks to be you.
IMHO: Score:5, Funny
Okay, subtract 1 for being too lazy to look up dialysis.
But then add 1 for Informative (he's right, geekdudes)
Equals, lemme see, four plus one, carry the two = 5.
Like I said.
That would be a much better way to merge cellphone and PDA. You can use PDA while you're talking, and keep the high frequency GSM antenna away from your head as well. It also looks much more stylish then putting a big fat PDA by the ears.
Whats this, ?smart quotes? on Slashdot, surely not.
Note the ? in Nextel?s. tut tut. I expected more of you.
--
use Blunt::Instrument;
"Fight the upgrade cycle. Get a couple extra batteries for your next phone and keep it for years."
But I abuse my phone? The screen get scratched by my keys and I bounce it off the floor a couple of times in just the first year...
I haven't owned one, don't own one, and don't plan to own one. I like not being accessible 24/7. I'll stick with my WiFi-connected Sony Clie NX70V, thank you very much.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!