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The Nintendo Indifference?
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to a new Nintendojo editorial entitled 'The Nintendo Indifference' This noticably bitter editorial on the state of the Big N begins: "I bought my GameCube with the expectation of the delivery of the promise of innovation, and you failed to deliver. Worst of all, I don't forget. Because of your misleading statements, it's time for a reckoning, Nintendo. You owe me." Has Nintendo really "failed to be innovative as a first party developer for their console", or did the writer of this editorial just get out of bed on the wrong side?
While he makes some valid points, it's hard to take this guy seriously. His ranting and raving is almost as bad as some of the trolls that lurk around slashdot.
He was saying to the audience in attendance that the Nintendo Difference for the GameCube was that their would be no "Mega Sequels," only innovative games like Pikmin.
What developer doesn't make extravagant, exuberant claims at an E3 press conference?
He goes on and makes some interesting comments about Mario Sunshine, but then he makes this comment:
Secondly, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind 'Wanker'.
C'mon, how old are we? You have to resort to name-calling to get your point across?
The whole thing is pure dreck, I can't believe the ravings of an immature, name-callling child makes the news.
Mike
I bought a GBA when the first came out. It's almost unplayable. I only bring my GBC when I travel. I'll probably buy the new GBA someday, but I'm think Nintendo has to shape up.
Nintendo has been only pumping their own games out. Its sad that the Xbox, Linux, and Macs have more games than the Game Cube.
Sigs are nice guns
What more do I have to say? Those were two great games, that were also very inavative. What is this guy looking for? Oddities like "Mr. Mosquito"? Yes Nintendo has lots of sequels, but if you look at E3 this year that's just about all there is.
What is there for the XBox or PS2 that's so innovative? I already mentioned "Mr. Mosquito", there is that new game for the PS2 that uses a camera, and Ico was very innovative in many ways. The XBox had... um... I'm not quite sure. MechAssault was somewhat unseen on consoles. I'm sure there are a few more but let's face it, none of the consoles has a ton of innovative games.
So where are they? The PC gets lots of odd games, although they aren't often very big. What does get a ton of games? The GBA. WarioWare Inc (I'm playing this now, it's fantastic), HamHam Heartbreak is sorta unique, it just gets lots of stuff.
All that said, what's so bad about sequels? I'm looking forward to Pikmin 2. There are many sequels that I'm looking forward to. The "sequels suck" thing is just more generalizations that come from games like "SofaSalesmen Tycoon" and "Army Men 312". Many games have sequels done to death, but many are great. I can't wait for Advanced Wars 2 either.
So in short, Nintendo is doing a very good job. Shut up and go find a good game if you want one instead of waiting for the next big thing. Mario Sunshine was no Mario 64, but it was still a pretty good game. Zelda, on the other hand, was simply fantastic. I don't mind sequels if they are well done and top rate.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Anyway, the guys fails to look at the fact that the concentration of original games is higher than that of the other systems.
He calls Mario Sunshine a crappier version of Mario 64... what the hell? Sunshine is a great game, and has a cool angle to it. I mean, c'mon, how many games do you see that have you spray the enemies with water and clean up sludge?
Wind Waker is another great game. I'm perplexed as to how he feels it is the same as OoT or MM... neither had sailing, the enemy AI was levels below WW, no droppable weapons, I could go on for a while.
Metroid Prime. So its a sequel. Its a brilliantly executed sequel. The only "fps" I'll ever play on a console.
As stated, Animal Crossing and Pikmin stand on their own.
How does a guy who writes an article like this get posted to slashdot? Seriously. Even my "Hopefully this will lead to more truly innovative and quality titles like Splinter Cell, Nascar: Dirt to Daytona and Burnout 2..."
If you think those games are innovative there is something seriously wrong with you. Of the three Burnout 2 is probably the most so, and only in it's awesome crashing action.
Nintendo makes the most innovative and fun video games in the world, they always have. So, slashdot, if you're going to continue posting quality stuff like this why not post some of the shit that I write when I'm bored and sleepy?
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
When an individual tells a corporation that they "owe him."
It would be moderated down to -1 Flamebait instantly.
Its claims are absolutely ludicrous. Mario Sunshine has a worse camera than Mario 64? Wind Waker is identical to Ocarina? Games like Smash Brothers that made dramatic and substantial improvements on their originals aren't worth putting out? Sequels that expand on popular and fun ideas are bad? These are just stupid ideas, made no smarter by his "witty" retitling of games to be "Wind Wanker" and "Mario Squirt-Gun", or his claiming that Miyamoto would "wet himself" if a game contained real violence. (News flash: Miyamoto was a producer on Eternal Darkness, one of three games actually praised by the ranter)
God, you have no idea how depressed I am that the buzz story on Nintendo is "the company is doomed". The company is only doomed because of the arbitrary perception that it is doomed. Its consoles are profitable, its games reliably top "best of year lists", and it has a sizable installed fanbase. It's only assholes like this that are going to kill what is, in my opinion, the only company still reliably putting out games that remotely resemble the hobby I grew up on.
Hm. That "essay" appears to have pissed me off more than I thought. I guess I'll go find some more Shines until I calm down.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
Frankly, I think Nintendo is the only innovative game maker left in business today. We had a lengthy discussion on /. the other day on this very topic.. Nintendo, time and again, is the innovator in this industry. As we've seen with Apple (the innovator in the PC industry) they've carved out quite a profitable niche in the marketplace, which is where Nintendo may find itself.
Nintendo, like Apple, has some very innovative games, does things nobody else does, but is later copied by everyone else in the industry :). I love my Xbox by and large it's generic crap that I'm playing on it :). The games look great, but I have yet to find a game that immerses me like the Nintendo titles.
On the Gamecube alone, you have great first party titles like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Zelda, Mario Sunshine, etc. etc. Nintendo knows how to make a great video game, and the Gamecube is by far the best canvas they've ever had to express their innovative approach to video games.
All one needs to do is just play Zelda Wind Waker for an hour or two to see just how amazing these people are. It's just an astounding game.
www.lonseidman.com
Do we really care about the opinions of someone who has the phrase "with his hair cut like a homosexual mushroom" in the opening paragraph?
We have seen some innovation, and also a lot of evolution. Pikmin, Metroid and Animal Crossing are very innovative, whereas Mario Sunshine and Zelda are both improvements and refinements on the older installments. One should ask what Sony and Microsoft have offered in the way of innovation...
I am not sure where you can fault Nintendo in terms of game design - and Nintendo have never really swamped the market with titles, instead releasing only one or two a year. From the few we have received it is clear that first party offerings are up to scratch.
A better (and valid) attack would be on third party support. Nintendo is very much a first (and second) party platform, which in many ways limits the appeal of their system.
However, it's 20 years later and those kids have grown up. A large percentage of gamers now are not children, but young adults. They want harder edged, "cooler" games. Halo, Grand Theft Auto, etc. Nintendo has either failed to grasp that or out of fear of alienating their kid-friendly fan base, have ceded that territory to Sony and Microsoft.
The question now is whether Nintendo has the right strategy. Is there enough room for a kid-focused gaming console or will adults simply buy a PS2 for their children because then there'll be games that they can enjoy as well?
Thoughts on stocks, markets and trading
I guess.
/. ... I guess it makes good conversation for an otherwise slow moving news pool. :P
This guy just seemed utterly deranged over Nintendo. Maybe it's just the grass is always greener on the other side, but I'm currently an owner of both the Xbox and PS2 consoles, and I have to say that both software lineups, put together, for both consoles, have been depressingly lackluster. I can count on one hand the games worth owning for these two systems. However when I think of the GC, I've got like 10 or 11 games all in my mind.
Could just be the grass is always greener. But it could also just be that both these consoles are another example of quantity over quality.
Sure, there's games like ICO and Halo that make the respective systems sort of worth owning. The FFX and Suikoden 3 rpgs for PS2 weren't that bad, along with Kingdom Hearts. I can't think too far beyond those as far as games I would play go. And all of the Xbox titles have been ports of PC games, or currently have their titles being ported to PC. Everytime I'm out looking for a decent Xbox game to pick up, I've generally already got it for PC, or it's coming out for PC, so why spend so much money on a gimped product?
(gimped being no online play, not editable, etc)
I can't really come up with anything else to either go against or with parts of his point, I know the GC games I've seen have been extremely good, and I'm on the verge of picking a system up up (they are super cheap now too..)
Pikmin looked good, Mario Sunshine didn't seem all that bad... all of Nintendo's sequals are top notch (Zelda, Mario, SSMB, Metroid) and the just announced games like Giftpia and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles are looking spectacular.
I can't say that I agree with schotty when he says that more games is better and it's sad that pretty much every other platform has more, especially since there are so few out on both Xbox and PS2 that are really worth owning.
That, to me, is sad.
And I guess I'm also wondering how this guy's article is worthy
Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss.
Here's the most outrageous quote in the whole mess:
"It seems like the only difference between Nintendo and the other consoles is that Nintendo is apt to lie about their intentions, whereas Sony and Microsoft give you what you want and lots of it."
God is dead -- Nietsche
Nietsche is dead! - God
Well, I agree that it wasn't the best of articles. The childish comments (Wind Wanker) hurt it more than anything else. Still, there are some valid points in there. Me, I have grown up with Nintendo and gone through the Famicom, the Super Famicom, the N64, the Cube and a handful of GameBoy's. It's difficult to pinpoint, but despite the lovely visuals of the current Nintendo titles, there is something missing. Something that was there before, when Nintendo was the unchallenged king of the videogame world, but started to fade away when the competition got serious. I find it difficult to really get involved with their games these days. Mario Sunshine bored me within hours. I was stunned by the looks of Zelda, but lost interest after a couple of days. On the Super Famicom, I was obsessed with Mario and Zelda (and many others), looking for secrets, discussing the games with friends, etc. There is just something lukewarm and uninspired with the current (and recent) titles. Maybe Miyamoto-san is being spread too thin, I don't know, but something is missing and I want it back. BTW, it is pointless to stick your tongue out at the competition (Sony, Microsoft) and pretend that all they produce is crap. The point is that their products sell and Nintendo have been back-pedalling ever since Sony got serious about videogames. Sony are about too enter the handheld market and we all know that Microsoft wont be far behind. They will tear marketshare chunks out of the GameBoy and Nintendo will be on the retreat once again, while stubbornly claiming that everything is fine and business is great... Something better change.
While the guy can tone down the anger I agree with him.
I have the Cube and so far am highly disappointed with lack of online support and games.
The only reason I havent given mine away or sold it is that another Star Wars game is slated for release only on GameCube, which is one reason I even have the GameCube, Rogue Squadron. Other than that the thing is a dud.
Despite his childishness the guy has a point; Nintendo really aren't delivering on their promises for innovation and, more than that, they aren't producing solid sequels either. With the rarity of third party games and a total lack of support for online gaming its difficult to see anything the Gamecube has done right.
Don't get me wrong; I own a Gamecube and I like a lot of Nintendo games. I own a SNES and an N64 as well. He's right that Mario Sunshine is a weak re-tread of Mario 64 though - its a fun game in its own right but it lacks the innovation, imagination and sheer fun of Mario 64. I've heard that Sunshine is based on re-worked N64DD code and I think that makes a lot of sense - its basically a stop-gap rather than a true sequel. The Wind Waker suffers from similar flaws; its got an innovative graphical style but beneath that it plays like Ocarina of Time with a boat tacked on - much like the tacked-on squirt-gun in Mario Sunshine. Given how clunky the water-based combat is and how dull the treasure-seeking is, its hard to see what the sailing really adds to the game. At its core The Wind Waker is about puzzle dungeons, just like any Zelda game, but its dungeons are less interesting and much easier than those we've seen before and it doesn't really add anything new to the mix. Even the titular 'Wind Waker' is essentially just the Ocarina of Time by a new name.
I think ultimately Nintendo's problem is this: innovation is its major selling point. Sony has a massive catalogue of games, including many fantastic new ideas and many great sequels and Microsoft have enough money to buy up anything that Sony overlooks - so if Nintendo wants to compete it needs not just a few good games, but some really unmissible ones. Currently the Gamecube is struggling to outdo the N64; how can it hope to compete with next-generation offerings?
Nintendo is taking a beating for not being innovative, from many different sources. If they aren't, then who is? Where do you see the innovation happening in today's video game industry?
the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
Really. If you wanted to see this editorial it probably would've been just as easy to go to one of the Gamecube boards on gamefaqs (www.gamefaqs.com). Then just look for a "Nintendo sucks" topic and you're all set. The only thing that makes this significant is because this is an editorial on Nintendojo which has always been a fairly decent source for Nintendo news.
I won't even bother picking apart the article. That's already been done before and with he proves a point with his confused ramblings. To paraphrase Fry from Futurama, "People don't want innovative. They want the same thing over and over and over." Look at Nintendo's lineup.
Mario Sunshine, Super Smash Bros Melee, Zelda: Wind Waker, and Luigi's Mansion have been the high selling games for the system. While each has innovation on its own, they each have flaws and ultimately are updates (though possibly big ones) to earlier games (except Luigi which is just too short). Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, the games with the unusual and innovative twists simply don't sell well.
It's a shame, but that's how things are. The person who wrote that editorial is clearly cranky and clueless (which Xbox title is the innovative one? was it the generic FPS Halo or the non-generic but barely a game DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball?), but everyone is entitled to an opinion.
"If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka
If you don't like it, don't buy it. I think that would send the strongest message to the folks at Nintendo.
I am perfectly happy with the gamecube, and the current library. Sure, I'd like to see GTA on the GC, since I'll never buy a PS2(Sorry, buying a house. Gotta get ready for the assault on my wallet.) But, there are some great games coming up. I won't list them all here. Just visit Game Spot or ign.com to see the excellent upcoming games.
What, me Tweet?
Well, I posted this list in response to a Dreamcast fanboy's theories about inventive games being the cause of Dreamcast's failure, but it didn't get much attention, so here it is again.
If you think PlayStation hasn't done anything for game innovation, what about Rez, Irritating Stick, Frequency, Herdy Gerdy, Roll Away, PaRappa The Rapper, Incredible Crisis, Stretch Panic, Mad Maestro!, Mister Mosquito, Fantavision, No One Can Stop Mister Domino!, Vib Ribbon, Kinetica, Monster Rancher, Shadow Of Destiny, State Of Emergency, and maybe Sky Odyssey? Just to pick a few...
As a fan of quirky games, I picked PlayStation and PS2 precisely because the platform tends to get strange experimental games that other systems don't. If you want to see a truly uninspired lineup of FPS and sports games (with one interesting game), look at the Xbox...
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
What is interesting is analyzing all of the data concerning quality titles the individual console makers have produced. Here is the page listing the top GC games (those with greater than 85% average reviews). As you can see Nintendo has released (including third party titles) 16 titles which have been very well received by the reviewing wing of the games industry. In contrast the PC industry released 27 games with similar press fanfare, the PS2 released 28 games, and the XBox 18.
The GameCube has the smallest number of quality titles but if you factor in GameboyAdvance games the total rises to 29. And indeed if you are buying a GC soon it will come with the GameBoy TV adapter so you can play all your Nintendo games for $150 for the unit. The GameCube has always been cheaper than the other systems and that is a major selling point for it.
If you look at the top rated games you'll see 3 GameCube games in the top 10. The GameCube is producing very high quality games but it is getting hurt because third party developers are not supporting it as well (they create and optimize the game for the PS2 and then release that game for the XBox/GC hardware which is much more powerful). Also, the PS2/PC controls the highly acclaimed GTA series which has a solid hold on the Top 10 games.
I'm not saying that Nintendo is not to blame for many of the woes felt by GC owners. I'm just saying it is possibly the best console to own (it's cheap and has a number of stellar 1st party titles not available elsewhere). Nintendo and Microsoft might have lost to Sony in this battle, but Nintendo is still very aggressive in their future plans and they have a stranglehold on the portable gaming market. The next round of consoles will be very interesting and with exclusivity contracts from the likes of RockStar Games (GTA) and Square (Final Fantasy) being expired soon or renegotiated frequently it is possible that Nintendo's next console will be able to compete on the same level as the PS3 and XBOX2.
In the meantime I will be playing Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime and Wind Waker. And (unfortunately) waiting for Mario Kart, F-zero, etc. for the GameCube.
My biggest beef with Nintendo is that it took nearly 2 or more years to get many of their 1st party sequels made. There's no real excuse for any of that. They should have been launch titles or at least released in 2002.
1. Pikmin is beautiful, and a wonderful way to pass the time when home sick from work.
2. Animal Crossing, while looking like an N64 game, really takes the whole "Sims" thing to a new level.
3. Metroid Prime is the tighest FPS I've ever played, and I've played them since Pathways into Darkness .
4. And, to top all of them off, The Wind Waker is just an amazing game and is close to perfect. Yes, it does play like Ocarina, but it is Ocarina's sequel - I should hope it feels similar, at least.
I could go on: Eternal Darkness, Lost Kingdoms, Lost Kingoms II, oh, and while it made its first home on the Japanese DC, the great Ikagura cannot be overlooked.
And what do we GC'ers have to look forward to? Pikmin 2, F-Zero GX, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe, and Giftpia, just to name a few. When one considers that the typical console owner buys, tops, four or five titles for the console, I think the GC is in great shape (lord knows I own a small fortune's worth).
I just don't think the argument is fully with merit. If this were English 101 I would have to make him redo the essay. If this were a /. post I would have to mod him down -1 Troll.
I can see the author's points but I'm kind of in the middle of the road on this subject. You have to admit that while some of these sequels are rehashes of N64 games, they still are a lot of fun. Also, I think Nintendo has their innovation focused on the wrong thing. They're pushing the whole Gamecube-GBA link, which is cool, just not very practical. How man people can really afford a GameCube and a GBA and Metriod Prime and Metriod Fusion?
truly innovative and quality titles like Splinter Cell
So he rails on a Metal Gear Solid remake for about 3 paragraphs, and then wishes for 'innovative' games like Splinter Cell (a.k.a. Metal Gear Solid on estrogen -- note: I own both games, but I'm not particularly fond of either. That being said, MGS is a far better game than Splinter Cell IMO)?
I mean, the whole rant was pretty stupid. It's extremely hard to take someone seriously when they use the wrong 'their' in the opening paragraph. But to not see the irony in his own praise and bashing ripped the last tiny bit of credibility out of the editorial.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
This guy is just another one of those whiners with nothing worthwhile to say. And while Burnout 2 is a very good racing game, to call it innovative is a total joke.
Personally, I prefer a steady balance of new and old ideas. Innovation at the sake of entertainment is not a good idea, and I do not buy games just because they're the next big thing.
If you're looking for something innovative on the 'Cube, get yourself a copy of the preview disc (supposedly, it's not for sale, but tell that to GameStop) and try Viewtiful Joe. It's like a classic side-scrolling brawler, but better. Plus it's got bullet time, and it works really well. The look of it will surely turn off people such as our dear author, but playing the demo catapulted it to near the top of my list.
Plus you get a demo of Wario Ware that's pretty cool too (haven't played the real thing yet).
I've moved on.
Last year, when X-box live was released, I was floored not so much by Microsoft's steps towards an online component, but rather by the lack of a plan by Nintendo and Sony. I played a lot of x-box live for that first month, and now, 7 months later I have not purchased a single game that uses it? Why? because most of it is crap. The "Online content" prmoised by MS has mostly boiled down to one level or so every 3 months.
What looked like Nitendo's mistake may not have been such a grave error after all. Console online gaming is still primitive, in the same way that CD-drives were primitive when Sega CD was first released. Developers don't really implement it in any way that improves the software. I think that the next generation (PS3, X-Box2, game-hypercube) will see better use of online play and that will be when Nintendo and Sony make their move.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
... he's just a little miffed about what happened to him at E3 '01.