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No Business Like SCO Business
The SCO must go on. Informationweek has a roundup. News.com has some analysis of the legal case. SCO reiterates their threat to revoke IBM's license. Reader hobsonchoice sends a blurb: "Also more from analysts who saw SCO/Linux code comparisons under NDA. Bill Claybrook, of Aberdeen Group Inc., says SCO changed their story to him about whether they had any "direct evidence" that IBM copied any System V code into Linux.
Laura Didio of Yankee Group has answered some detailed questions about her code review process. Lastly Fujitsu Siemens have joined in the debate: they don't think SCO's case is going anywhere." One observer of the SCO case has compiled some notes about Caldera's active participation in the IA-64 project. And look on the bright side: if you follow the school of thought that all publicity is good publicity, at least this suit has gotten Linux mentioned in many places where it normally wouldn't be.
Ok. We all know what SCO is doing, or at least trying to do.
I hate to sound like a troll, but do we really need this ammount of press time about it? How aobut one giant wrap-up post once this whole business is overwith and SCO is nothing but a faded memeory?
Could we try that? Please?
I think this summs it up better
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
seams to me that SCO has ask IBM about the dirty knife!
Then IBM says to SCO:
YOU BASTARDS! YOU VICIOUS, HEARTLESS BASTARDS! lOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO HIM (Linus)
HE'S WORKED HIS FINGERS TO THE BONE, TO MAKE THIS GNU/LINUX WHAT IT IS
AND YOU COME IN WITH YOUR PETTY, FEEBLE QUIBBLING AND YOU GRIND HIM INTO THE DIRT!
this fine, honorable man, whose boots you are not worthy to kiss!
Oh, it makes me mad, MAD
how the end always is
that SCO is thinking they'll file an injunction with a judge on Monday. So, what it seems like to me is they are talking like North Korea.
"You...you...play nice IBM or we'll revoke your AIX license on Friday... err...hm, it's Friday now...um, err...play nice or we'll revoke it on Monday, punks!"
Duno. I know like, nothing about law so maybe this is standard practice.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
Maybe IBM did do some work in Linux, but it would seem that Intel and HP had more to do with making it scale better.
[WEDNESDAY] We are going to revoke IBM's UNIX license if they don't pay up by friday!
[THURSDAY] We have it all planned out. We have this very well calculated. On friday, if IBM does not do what we say, we will revoke their UNIX license and they will be hurting badly.
[FRIDAY] Um.. yeah. We are SO going to revoke IBM's UNIX license if they don't do what we say. Uh, i mean, it's still friday. If they don't do what we say by midnight. Yeah.
[SATURDAY] Well, our deadline has come and gone. We are now free to revoke IBM's UNIX license. Um, at a time of our choosing. Yup. And we will be doing this to IBM. Um.. next week. Unless they do what we say by then. It wil be horrible for them.
I notice a lot of these articles in Businessweek, Etc. seem to very negative. Is anyone noticing a different trend toward linux at their place of business due to this FUD? SCO=Trash
I did NOT learn everything I need to know in kindergarten.
I can see those headlines in tomorrow's IBM company newsletter.
Well, SCO is still not out of cash... aparantly. So, for them to stop, they need to run out first. Since they have to pay for bandwidth... I guess using a little wouldn't hurt.
/comv/null them if you don't want to use disk space, but still want to download them...
z ip
So, got bandwidth? Mad at SCO? Want to learn more about their products and/or hear them talk? Last time they pulled the file when slashdot wanted to know how to administrate their Linux server. This time...
Download a 36.6mb ZIP from the SCO Authorized Eduaction Partner program from here
(for all you non-English speakers)
a 12.9mb Italian OpenLinux manual pdf from here
a 10mb Unixware administration pdf from here
a 7.9mb mp3 of a Calcomra confrence call (May 2002) from here
a 4.2mb mp3 of a SCO confrence call from here
a 4.5mb vector image of the Calcomra logo from here
OR
a 6.8mb SCO education Linux courseware pdf from here
***If you want to get these interesting files easier, you can also launch an unspecified number of wget processes. You can even -O
36.6mb: (removing the space in 'zip')
wget sco.com/images/pdf/education/SCO_AEP_posterfiles.
12.9mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/ecomsktop/ecomsktop_24_it.pdf
10mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/aep/UW7NET~1.PDF
7.9mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/06032002.mp3
4.2mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/q2.mp3
5.4mb:
wget http://www.sco.com/images/pdf/12-11-01.mp3
9mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/aep/OS5NET~1.PDF
4mb:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/unixware/946000000b.pdf
And, if you need their entire website for offline viewing... not wanting to waste bandwidth downloading things multiple times:
wget -r -l0 http://www.sco.com/
There's no business like SCO business
Like no business I know
Everything about it is appealing (the verdict!)
Everything that justice will allow!
Nowhere could you get that happy feeling... when you are stealing... that sacred cow!
There's no people like SCO people
They smile when dealing their blows
Even with a comp'ny that you know will fold, you may be stranded out in the cold
Still you wouldn't change it for a sack of gold, let's go on with the SCO!
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Does SCO have Robert Stein as a legal consultant?
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
I have no idea if there really is a BSD common root to that code, but it's at least one possible explanation. Hard for anyone to tell when they won't tell people what they think is stolen.
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
I do not think I have seen this posted on Slashdot yet, but then I might have just missed it:
Pirate of Penguinance
Just a bit more humor on the situation.
...it made me open margin account to be able to SELL SCOX SHORT :) If you don't think they have a case as well, you might join me and do the same. Come on, its almost $12 a piece or twice the price before the case. And we all know its gonna be worth zero in few weeks.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
All publicity is good publicity? If that was the case, Saddam should run for president.
Linux needs to be the next version of smoking in Hollywood. A character isn't cool unless he uses Linux in the movie.
To an outsider, this lawsuit probably sounds like the computer world fighting with itself. "I don't need this Unix/Linux stuff. Microsoft is for me!"
SCO wants money. IBM has some. This only hurts the *nix world. Even more if SCO wins.
If I had something intelligent to say, I would have said it.
It's 967AD and the restless SCO Villagers find a witch and are keen to burn her!
A secret meeting with Microsoft takes place to see if they can...
SCO: SCO Code! SCO Code! SCO Code! We've found SCO Code in Linux!
SCO LACKEY #1: We have found some SCO Code in Linux! May we burn it?
SCO: Burn the users! Burn! Burn it! Burn its users!
MICROSOFT: How do you know it is SCO Code?
SCO LACKEY #2: It looks like it.
SCO: Right! Yeah! Yeah!
MICROSOFT: Bring it forward.
GPL'd CODE: I'm not SCO Code. I'm not!
MICROSOFT: Uh, but you are dressed as such.
GPL'd CODE: They dressed me up like this.
SCO: Augh, we didn't! We didn't...
GPL'd CODE: And these aren't my comments. They're false ones.
MICROSOFT: Well?
SCO LACKEY #1: Well, we did do the comments.
MICROSOFT: The comments?
SCO LACKEY #1: And the copyright lines, but it is SCO Code!
SCO LACKEY #2: Yeah!
SCO: We burn it! Right! Yeaaah! Yeaah!
MICROSOFT: Did you dress it up like this?
SCO: No! No. No. No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, a bit. A bit. It does look like UNIX though.
MICROSOFT: What makes you think it is SCO Code?
SCO LACKEY #3: Well, it turned me into Windows!
MICROSOFT: Windows?
SCO LACKEY #3: I got better.
SCO LACKEY #2: Burn it anyway!
SCO LACKEY #1: Burn!
SCO: Burn it! Burn! Burn it!...
MICROSOFT: Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether it is SCO Code.
SCO LACKEY #1: Are there?
SCO LACKEY #2: Ah?
SCO LACKEY #1: What are they?
SCO: Tell us! Tell us!...
MICROSOFT: Tell me. What do you do with SCO Code?
SCO: Compile it! Compile it! Compile! Complie!...
MICROSOFT: And what do you compile apart from SCO Code?
SCO LACKEY #1: More SCO Code!
SCO LACKEY #3: Shh!
SCO LACKEY #2: BSD Code!
MICROSOFT: So, why does SCO Code compile?
[pause]
SCO LACKEY #3: B--... 'cause its copied from... BSD?
MICROSOFT: Good! Heh heh.
SCO: Oh, yeah. Oh.
MICROSOFT: So, how do we tell whether it is copied from BSD?
SCO LACKEY #1: See if it builds with gcc?
MICROSOFT: Ah, but can you not also build Linux with gcc?
SCO LACKEY #1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. True. Uhh...
MICROSOFT: Does BSD come under the GPL license?
SCO LACKEY #1: No. No.
SCO LACKEY #2: No, its free! We can do what we want with it commercially!
MICROSOFT: And what else are you free to use commercially?
SCO: Bread! Apples! Uh, very small rocks! Cider! Uh, gra-- gravy! Cherries! Mud! Uh, churches! Churches! Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR: Your Own Code!
SCO: Oooh.
MICROSOFT: Exactly. So, logically...
SCO LACKEY #1: If... it... has... been released by us commerically,... it's made of SCO Code.
MICROSOFT: Yes, and have you released it commercially?
SCO LACKEY #2: Yes! In our Linux Distribution!
SCO LACKEY #1: SCO Code! SCO Code! SCO Code! SCO Code! SCO Code! Burn it! Burn the users!
I swear, this is all i could think of this morning when i read the c|net.com.com.com.com article on their threat to move monday..
"Here is line of death in the sand, Friday, you cross this line, we revoke your AIX license rights and you die.
Ok, you cross this line on Monday and you die.
This line, you die.
This line, you die.
Nyaah, I'm going my house, you knock on my door, and I won't come out."
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
at least this suit has gotten Linux mentioned in many places where it normally wouldn't be.
yes, now everyone that heard about linux through this case will connect linux with 'that os that you can be fined a shitload of money for using because (...insert random stupid sco reason here...)'
GREAT! WONDERFUL! Now EVERYBODY has a good impression of linux.
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
This is an interesting tidbit. Sun's license gives them rights to all and any derivative works of Unix.
In the informationweek article, SCO calls Linux the equivalent of napster in the enterprise world, which really isn't proper at all. Is it just me, or does it sound like SCO is starting to throw really wild punches? It seems their attacks are getting pretty libelous. The informationweek view seems to be that SCO might have a case, but SCO's press behavior is very, very odd.
Oh, well, it's all FUD until IBM decides to act publicly. Like everyone else here, I'm really curious to see where they plan to go with this charge.
if you follow the school of thought that all publicity is good publicity, at least this suit has gotten Linux mentioned in many places where it normally wouldn't be.
The entire reason this is being done is to plant FUD into the minds of IT and Business community about liablity in using Linux and Open Source alternatives. MS is behind it and they are doing what they do best. Planting FUD about a competitor.
On one hand you have to give them credit. No company in the history of mankind has ever done it better. On the other hand it is a low class, childish, unethical thing to do.
Laura Didio says, "There are "bits and pieces" of copied material in Linux version 2.2, according to SCO. However, the vast majority of their claims centre around the later Linux 2.4 and 2.5 versions."
and then says that she was shown similar code in "Unix System V, version 4.1. Incidentally, this particular code is from the early 1980s, and hence predates Linus Torvalds' first Linux code."
But hang on a minute. Wouldn't early 80's Unix code be extremely primitive compared to Linux 2.2 and above? Would the kernel hackers really need to steal such ancient code for versions 2.4 and 2.5? Surely the Linux kernel must have been functionally equivalent (or superior) to early 80's Unix a long time ago?
HH
--
One thing I found incredibly annoying is her style -- why does she want to sould like a bimbo? Random crap about MIT and Stanford, and many!!! exclamation!!! points!!!!!!
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
I think my head will explode if I see one more illiterate nitwit typing "for all intensive purposes". Fifty times on the blackboard kid: for all intents and purposes. And 500 more times "I will not repeat a cliche if I don't understand it".
I'd like to note that if SCO Unix employed DRM technology, then they would have the power to remotely shutdown everyone who was no longer 'licensed'.
You know, I have not read every bit of press related to the SCO case, but this part is news to me. Laura Didio, the analyst who was so impressed with SCO's evidence, says:
I saw Unix System V, version 4.1. Incidentally, this particular code is from the early 1980s, and hence predates Linus Torvalds' first Linux code.
This answers the question about how SCO can be claiming that Linux copied features that don't exist in SCO Unix. Their claims of copied code revolve around AT&T's System V Code!
This means that in order to even get started on this case, SCO has to establish:
1) SCO has free and clear ownership of the AT&T System V code
2) IP rights to the AT&T System V code were not dilluted by the BSD settlement
I am not an expert on these issues, but they seem to be very high hurdles to clear.
My university's backbone mainframe is run on AIX the way I see it as soon as SCO revokes IBM's license my shitty grades are but a memory on some inaccessible backup tape. Hello med school.
from the Laura Didio interview:
Have you any previous experience in reading code?
No. And I am not a copyright attorney either.
However, for the purposes of authentication, I had a code developer present to review the materials with.
No one has greater respect for their inherent limitations than I do!!!
now that's just not nice...
"NUMA (Non Uniform Memory access) a mechanism for enabling large multiprocessing systems, RCU (Read Copy Update) (and) SMP"
I am not completely familiar with the details of it, but don't the last two, RCU and SMP, both exist in FreeBSD?
Also this lady admits that she is not a copyright attorney nor is she a programmer, so she had a code analyst there with her reviewing the code. So why can't we get his or her opinion? Also, why would she give her statement on how the GPL works if she's neither a copyright attorney nor a programmer? Seems to me she was fed nearly everything she's saying.
i.e. Her statements and opinions are worth about as much as SCOX will be in a few months.
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
IBM: Trouble with Linux.
...' ... our chief weapons are surprise...blah blah blah. Cardinal, read the charges.
Linux Users: Oh no - what kind of trouble?
IBM: One on't shared codes gone owt askew on base code.
Linux Users: Pardon?
IBM: One on't shared codes gone owt askew on base code.
Linux Users: I don't understand what you're saying.
IBM: [slightly irritated and with exaggerated clear accent] One of the shared codes has gone out askew on the base code.
Linux Users: Well what on earth does that mean?
IBM: *I* don't know - Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble with Linux, that's all - I didn't expect a kind of SCO Inquisition.
[JARRING CHORD]
[The door flies open and CEO Darl McBride of Santa Cruz enters, flanked by two junior members. Chris Sontag has goggles pushed over his forehead. Cardinal Fang is just Cardinal Fang]
Darl McBride: NOBODY expects the SCO Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to money.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
[The Inquisition exits]
IBM: I didn't expect a kind of SCO Inquisition.
[JARRING CHORD]
[The SCO Group burst in]
Darl McBride: NOBODY expects the SCO Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to money, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!
[To Chris Sontag] I can't say it - you'll have to say it.
Chris Sontag: What?
Darl McBride: You'll have to say the bit about 'Our chief weapons are
Chris Sontag: [rather horrified]: I couldn't do that...
[Darl McBride bundles them outside again]
IBM: I didn't expect a kind of SCO Inquisition.
[JARRING CHORD]
[The SCO Group enter]
Chris Sontag: Er.... Nobody...um....
Darl McBride: Expects...
Chris Sontag: Expects... Nobody expects the...um...the SCO...um...
Darl McBride: Inquisition.
Chris Sontag: I know, I know! Nobody expects the SCO Inquisition. In fact, those who do expect -
Darl McBride: Our chief weapons are...
Chris Sontag: Our chief weapons are...um...er...
Darl McBride: Surprise...
Chris Sontag: Surprise and --
Darl McBride: Okay, stop. Stop. Stop there - stop there. Stop. Phew! Ah!
Fang: You are hereby charged that you did on diverse dates commit copyright infringement against the SCO Group. 'My old man said follow the--'
Chris Sontag: That's enough.
[To Linux Users] Now, how do you plead?
Linux Users: We're innocent.
Darl McBride: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
[DIABOLICAL LAUGHTER]
Chris Sontag: We'll soon change your mind about that!
[DIABOLICAL ACTING]
Darl McBride: Fear, surprise, and a most ruthless-- [controls himself with a supreme effort] Ooooh! Now, Chris -- the rack!
[Chris Sontag produces a plastic-coated dish-drying rack. Darl McBride looks at it and clenches his teeth in an effort not to lose control. He hums heavily to cover his anger]
Darl McBride: You....Right! Tie them down.
[Fang and Chris Sontag make a pathetic attempt to tie them on to the drying rack]
Darl McBride:Right! How do you plead?
Linux Users: Innocent.
Darl McBride: Ha! Right! Chris, give the rack [oh dear] give the rack a turn.
[Chris Sontag stands their awkwardly and shrugs his shoulders]
Chris Sontag: I....
Darl McBride: [gritting his teeth] I *know*, I know you can't. I didn't want to say anything. I just wanted to try and ignore your crass mistake.
Chris Sontag: I...
Darl McBride: It makes it all seem so stupid.
Chris Sontag: Shall I...?
Darl McBride: No, just pretend for God's sake. Ha! Ha! Ha!
[Chris Sontag turns an imaginary handle on the side of the dish-rack]
[Cut to them torturing a man, Linus Torvalds]
Darl McBride: Now, Li
Ok, who else is imagining the fully-functional death star?
t
"Oh yeah, the source for Linux and the source for Unixware look exactly the same."
"What's that? No, I have never looked at source code before in my life, but it's obvious, isn't it? Look at the way there's an 'if', followed by some stuff, and then the next line is indented. Plagiarism is the only possible explanation."
"And look at all of these file names that are the same! 'stdio.h', 'stdlib.h', 'sys/types.h'! I tell you, Linux is in one world of hurt!"
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
IBM licensed some code from SCO (or from AT&T but SCO inherited the deal) and used it to help them in AIX (to what extent is unknown).
Now SCO has a beef with IBM because they think they put some code that IBM got from a later version of the same product (Unixware, via Monterey deal) into Linux.
Using this beef, that still hasn't been proved in court or anywhere else than by SCO telling us it is true, they want to yank IBM's Unix code license and thus prevent not only IBM from shipping new versions of AIX until SCO's code is removed from it so they don't have a claim but also RETROACTIVELY to every copy of AIX that was sold in the last 15 or so years.
If they really manage to pull up sch a legal stunt (highly doubtful, it's more likely that they just are full of crap) it would mean that any piece of proprietary software made by company A that incorporate some licensed code from another company B could become illegal if company B yank the license of company A for any reason and without needing to prove a damn thing.
This seems like a big reason NOT to use proprietary software, to recap:
Free Software: Perpetual license (at least fro the GPL and BSD), code can only be declared illegal by court decision. Later versions with amended source code are legal (like the *BSD's after the settlement). Dute to the speed of development of the Free Softwre community the delay between the court ruling making a version illegal and a cleaned up version would be very small. Earlier versions can also be easily cleaned up if necessary to avoid upgrading.
Proprietary software (if SCO's stunt miraculously works): Even if your license is supposedly perpetual by contract with the vendor another company that had no business with you can come by and say that due to a dispute between them and said vendor your version is illegal. No need for a court ruling or to prove anything you assert (according to SCO). You cannot modify the software to make it legal (no code) and it is unlikely that the vendor will be willing to modify all the older versions still used by their clients so they don't need to upgrade it.
Which one is better for business already?
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Don't have much time at the moment, but in case nobody has posted these yet:
NOTE: German Language
A German developer (who says that he didn't sign their NDA!) reports on SCO's "evidence". He says that he's seen 46 pages (not just 80 lines) but doesn't seem convinced.
In another article, Claybrook gives more details of how the story changed, and also remarks on some rather odd things about SCO's "evidence".
Posting anon for obvious reasons. Plus I'm preturbed that my project got soused.
My company was one of those who recieved the letter from SCO a month ago. We think this is because we've successfully deployed Linux for a some high profile projects and my boss has been quoted on the topic in InfoWorld several times. Naturally, it wasn't taken that seriously, but the information tech advisory committee decided to look into it, and the (Linux-based) project I was heading up got temporarily put on hold.
As we're also a big IBM RS/6000 shop, someone called the rep and asked for IBM to clarify their position on the lawsuit. From what I heard, the guy clammed up and suggested that we arrange a face-to-face meeting with one of their representatives specializing in intellectual property issues. Well, ears perked up at that.
So, the special IBM IP salesdroid flys out from Boulder CA just for a meeting with the IT committee. According my boss, he basically assures them that AIX has no problems and won't be taken off the market, so our existing investment in P-SERIES is safe. Nobody had even thought about AIX up to this point -- the huge question on their minds was the legality of Linux.
But then, as my boss told it, the rep basically "Took The Fifth" on the Linux question and refused to deny SCO's claims. Then he started a pitch on 'Grid Computing', but was cut off. The committee then decided that without IBM's assurances, all Linux-based projects would be suspended indefinitely! As a long time supporter of IBM and Linux (ran RedHat 2.1 on a PS/2 Model 69, as a matter of fact), I was rightfully pissed off at the fact that IBM wouldn;t stand behind their excessive advertisements of LInux! (plus my job was at stake)
Soon the political gears were in motion. I tried to pass along Bruce Perens and Eric Raymond's excellent legally sound arguments, but they were too no avail. Ostpus Gusbosus. Now, there's lots of old time SUN admins here who never really liked the idea of Linux coming in. So, before I knew it, SUN reps had converged in touting their renewed commitment to Solaris x86. Given the lack of legal issues, they successfully sold the PHBs on top.
Well, at least my project was given a tentative go-ahead (no pink slip, w00t!), but I had to deal with "Slowaris"! (At least it looked like that M$ won't get to make another proposal.) After confirming that our DELL servers were supported, I went ahead with my testing. Turns out that with Solaris x86, we could handle a 20% higher sustained O(1) load pattern on the same hardware cluster, and the n-to-m thread management interface solved several long standing problems we were having with Linux 9.0. Slowlaris Indeed!
I have to admit I was all wrong about SUN -- this is a very nice operating environment for our porpoises. In a matter of a couple weeks, I've become a convert to the power and elegance of genuine UNIX System V Release 4. In fact, if this goes well, management will probably move all of our existing Linux installations over to SUN, with the exception of the big 8-way ComPAQ. (Ironically we'll have to test UnixWare there for SMP scalability reasons. No way Win2003 can take it, I'm sure.)
I recommend to all slashdotters affected by SCO's bullshit IP claims that they look into SUN's very performant and affordable Open Systems OS. As they say, UNIX is like sex -- It's better if you don't have to fake it!
Down towards the bottom.
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
I have seen many scenarios over the last few days that ask the question "what if SCO was right and there was some Unix code in Linux?"
But I am not sure this is so interesting to wonder about it.
Let's suppose that there is indeed many blocks of 10-15 lines of code that come from Unix and went into Linux (and not from a common source or the other way around). Let's further suppose that is was indeed put there by IBM (to avoid speculating about as yet nonexistent lawsuits against Linux companies). Now I ask the question:
Is that code really worth one frickin' BILLION dollars?
I mean, to prove that it was worth that much they would have not only to prove that it was there and that IBM put it there but also that it was crucial enough to transform Linux from a "bicycle" to a "sports car".
Also, I don't know how much SCO makes from Unix licenses each year but I wonder how long it would take for them to make one billion dollars from their Unix licensing program.
I also wonder how much less money they have made from said licensing program since IBM supposedly put that code here.
The more you look at it, no matter what angle, the less sense it makes.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
My SCO stock is going through the roof!!!! This is awesome. I thought that stock was going to be totally worthless but, now I find that it has trippled in value in the last two weeks!
I hate what they are doing to Linux but, I'm gonna make some MONEY!!!!
Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO. Go SCO.
Encouraging people to waste SCO's bandwidth because they're being stupid is petty and immoral.
:)
On the other hand, it's perfectly fine and moral for you to "vote" by preparing statements for any court case that will result, warning any of your friends in IT who have just returned from a 6 month spelunking adventure that SCO's management can't be sane if they think they can revoke pre-existing licenses, and therefore you don't think they should ever risk future business with SCO, and selling short their stock (assuming you still can).
You don't complain about someone not playing nice by playing naughty yourself. You do it by being scrupulously decent. The resulting contrast makes it all the more obvious how wrong they are to anyone watching, by the way.
p.s. if you don't believe the morality argument, that's fine. Think of this, however: would you rather that SCO lose all its money to hosting companies, ISPs, and telecoms, or to a Linux-and-open-source-promoting vendor like IBM? And I ask that as someone who misses his ISP job, even
Get off my launchpad!
SCO J. Simpson?
One shouldn't repeat a cliche without knowing the hysterical raisins of its development.
-- Repeat with me: "There is no right to profits".
I resemble that insulation.
Esteem isn't a zero sum game
Every time I see the SCO story emblem, I think of a Pokemon Poke-ball. That leads me to a new motto for SCO - "Gotta sue 'em all!"
I ain't evil, I'm just good looking.
SCO Group's goal isn't to "chase every company that's selling Linux," McBride says. The goal is to get its fair share of revenue from its intellectual property.
While he is not quoted exactly, this is easy to decipher what the article means he really said. The antecedent for the "its" that is right before "intellectual property" is "Linux". The antecedent for the "its" that is right before "fair share" is "SCO Group's". So in another words he said, "The goal is to get SCO Group's fair share of revenue from Linux's intellectual property," or something very similar to this. So they want distro makers to pay them licensing fees?!
Don't have much time at the moment, but in case nobody has posted these yet:
NOTE: German Language
A German developer (who says that he didn't sign their NDA!) reports on SCO's "evidence". He says that he's seen 46 pages (not just 80 lines) but doesn't seem convinced.
In another article, Claybrook gives more details of how the story changed, and also remarks on some rather odd things about SCO's "evidence".
I wouldn't expect lawyers for either side to divulge all of their evidence in advance. IBM and SCO are just now beginning the "discovery phase" of the suit. So I anticipate that more revelations will be forthcoming over the next couple of months.
Huh?! SCO is just "discovering" things so they can't come forward and stop the supposed infringment by publishing it and telling everyone to cease and dissist? Yet they know it's cost the at least one billion dollars!? The code was from 1980's era Unix but this is not about copyright? That code is well known and publishded but they consider it a trade secret? It lacks all the advanced code they call "enterprise grade" but IBM stole those features from SCO? When are these SCO idiots going to get their story straight?
It's so undignified, I'm embarassed to watch. Laura Didio, it's obvious you have been pulled in way over your head. Recognize that people who would restrict what you can tell others have something to hide and get out of it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Anyone have some GPS coordinates for that? No reason, really.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
"The Linux business model was bound to change..."
Mr. Mcbride is showing that he just doesn't understand that Linux is not a business model.
Linux is a reality of the market. Deal with it.
Free Software and Open Source are ralities of the market. Deal with that too.
If someone wants to contribute to the industry through Open Source and Free licensing, they can.
No entrance fee required.
For the first time in the history of the industrial revolution, an educated hobbyist can create something that will take business a corporation.
And nothing can be done about it. No legislation required.
And no amount of hair gel will change anything.
Read, L
Laura Didio at least identified some of the code areas: "The claims are not limited to just one area of the Unix System V kernel. SCO claims there are multiple instances of copyright violations. SCO said these include: NUMA (Non Uniform Memory access) a mechanism for enabling large multiprocessing systems, RCU (Read Copy Update) (and) SMP."
As far as NUMA goes, this is clearly aimed at the Monterey project. For a good laugh read the SCO Press Release on Industry Support for Project Monterey
I don't see how SCO can make it's "mutual mistake" (aka the pregnant cow) argument for NUMA. Their SCO Linux 4 datasheet advertises NUMA functionality as a feature of the GPL'd "Linux kernel 2.4.19" and trumps up SCO's Linux expertise and support for this kernel. I really don't see how they can win a trade secret case when they ADVERTISE and SUPPORT the open source release of the secret.
I've read the links above, and have been following the claims from both sides of this issue, and have come to a conclusion:
Linux development cannot be stopped.
I reached this conclusion by looking solely at how Linux has been created. The kernel has progressed through the efforts of thousands of contributors from around the world. Each of them can lay a legal claim to portions of the kernel. They contributed to the kernel under the full knowledge that no one could take their contribution away based on IP rights. Are these developers going to stop developing if SCO's claims prove to be true?
Also, what does SCO hope to secure from the Linux community? They are guilty of distibuting the very product that they claim infringes on their IP. I believe that they do have a right to object to full integration of their property without their concent. That said, I do not believe that their property should be GPL'ed without their permission. But how does their claim of ignorance trump Red Hat, Slackware, SuSE, or any other vendor? They had access to the UnixWare source. If they were duped and claim that in court, then they can hardly claim that these other vendors were willful in their conduct. In short, I can't see how they are going to make much headway against the other Linux vendors.
I also don't see where SCO gets the idea that people will pay them for a license to use Linux. The developer community will simply strip out the offending code and will ship the kernel out as a fork. All of the contributors to the kernel will make their claim to their portions of the infringing code and will incorporated it legally into the fork.
SCO will not kill Linux, nor will it kill community development of software. The auditing process will just become more robust.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
But mentions of RCU, NUMA, and SMP would mean that those areas of the kernel would be a REALLY good place to start looking.
Isn't IBM the primary contributor of the NUMA code?
http://oss.software.ibm.com/linux/news/?project_id =56
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Didio: "Check the GPL and look at Section 0. It reads that the legal copyright holder of the source code has to explicitly put an assignment and copyright transfer notice into the beginning of the GPL. There is no concept of accidentally giving away the code to the GPL."
That's not what my copy of the GPL says. It says "This License applies to any program or other work which contains a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed under the terms of this General Public License."
Further copying and modification are separate. The original author of the program placed the program under the GPL, and it and all distributed derivative works are likewise under the GPL.
If someone modifies and distributes the code, they don't in any way have to reaffirm the GPL notice. They certainly are not required to add additional copyright notices.
Didio's comment about the GPL is a complete misrepresentation, and she reveals herself here as an SCO pawn. I have no reason to believe anything else she said.
I think he meant "Ostus Gustobus"
Which roughly translates to "they eat thier young" (or something close).
I really don't want to know the details.
Read, L
You insensitive porpoise!
Smiles and waits for Jeffs head to expode.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This was interesting weeks ago... now it is just redundent.
SOOooo I looked around on their website....nope...can'e download an entire package of OpenLinux....and then I thought....wait a second..support! shouldn't ceasing support of a product that they sold a few weeks ago put them under some kinda liability?? so i dug around on the ftp site....and it didn't take to long to find exactly what i was looking for. ftp://ftp.sco.com/pub/updates/OpenLinux/3.1.1/Work station/CSSA-2003-020.0/SRPMS/.
The Linux kernel packed in source RPM format! yes, they ARE still distributing the source code for very thing which they believe contains their own proprietary code!
Please keep in my that my ADHD keeps me a little scatter brained and I sometimes can't focus long enough to
ftp://ftp.sco.com/pub/updates/OpenLinux/3.1.1/Serv er/current/
They seem to have their whole distro available.
Now, according the position paper put together by ESR, SCO's OpenServer doesn't contain NUMA and has crappy SMP.
The question then becomes, if SCO has these things, where did they get them from?
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
Hey, I just downloaded kernel 2.4.21.
;)
And under bluetooth you have it:
"Say Y here to compile SCO support into the kernel or say M to compile it as module (sco.o)"
Looks like IBM is guilty after all...
http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/21722.html
I don't think that case has much applicability here for lots and lots of reasons:
1) SCO advertises its linux expertise and supports linux. They can't really claim they didn't know the cow was pregnant here. For example, in the case of NUMA, SCO's datasheets advertise NUMA support in Linux
2) If you read the case, the court found that because of the mutual mistake of thinking the cow was barren, Walker had a "right to rescind, and to refuse to deliver" the prgenant cow. SCO already delivered the pregnant cow. It had babies and grandbabies. Is SCO ready to rescind all the profits they made selling the mistake?
3) The case cited is a Michigan state common law contract case. The GPL issues make this a federal copyright case. State of mind and knowledge of infringement (ie mistakes) are NOT an element of copyright infringement. (see below) They're going to have to do a lot better than state contract law citations to make this argument. Unless they have federal copyright caselaw to cite, I don't think they'll get very far with this argument.
4) This is also a trade secret case. It is settled law that revealing your own trade secret destroys it, mistake or otherwise. You can't "rescind" the destruction of a secret. Moreover, copyright issues aside, Linus has no duty to keep the secret. Even if IBM did screw up and violate their NDA, that doesn't taint Linux. Only copyright issues can taint Linux.
5) Even if the GPL as pertains to SCO is declared void, SCO still needs some licence to distribute the kernel.org owned IP in Linux. SCO can't make up some other licence for Linux, that is not their right. They must choose to accept the GPL or admit infringing the legitimate parts of Linux via their distribution, modification, and copying thereof. Again state of mind (intent) and knowledge of infringement (ie mistakes) are NOT an element of copyright infringement. This is firmly established law, the best examples of which are the "Dance Hall" cases, where vicarious liability was found when dance hall owners allowed the unauthorized public performance of musical works by the bands they hired, even when the owners had no knowledge of the infringements and had even expressly warned the bands not to perform copyrighted works without a license from the copyright owners. [see Shapiro, Bernstein & Co. v. H.L. Green Co., 316 F.2d 304, 307 (2d Cir. 1963) (citing some 10 cases)].
6) Finally, suppose the GPL is deemed breached. Whenever a contract is breached (and this would be especially true if the GPL here was breached by mutual mistake) there is a duty to mitigate damage to the other party. It is important to realize that the alleged wrong-doing here is by IBM, not Linus Torvalds who did little more than commit the same mistake SCO itself claims to have made but without the opportunity SCO had to know it. SCO has steadfastly refused to inform kernel.org of the technical details of the mistake which would allow it to be fixed. Their insistence on an NDA obviously precludes an open source release to fix the problem. Moreover, the actions such as the threat letter sent by SCO to all those companies seem coldly calculated to maximize damage to kernel.org. I think it is inarguable that the damage caused (intentionally) by SCO to Linux is far more substantial than any damage to SCO's IP, which could be easily fixed by simply distentangling the two code bases.
Did Microsoft or the RIAA/MPAA pay you to say that? Linux is a genuinely powerful OS that could truly change computing. Obviously you've spent more time talking to lawyers and less time talking to your programmers and techs.
My suspicisions of what SCO's true motive is has peaked after reading all the articles mentioned in today's entry in the saga. Is SCO trying to save itself? Is SCO trying to destroy Linux? Is SCO trying to hurt IBM? The Yankee Group's (long time Microsoft friend) high-level involvement in the matter is also suspicious when you factor in Microsoft re-upping licenses of Unix code from SCO. So what exactly ARE you doing SCO?
The fact that SCO is teeter-tottering with its answers to evidence of where the code originated from EXACTLY, is also suspicious. There are a lot of people that could have access to the source of Unix in the past before SCO had rights to it that might have implemented it in to Linux. The fact they haven't released the when, where and how of their claims is very interesting.
Linux can have the code worked out of it. My concern isn't for Linux at this point, Linus and the gang work magic with every kernel release. My concern is for the GPL. Will it be bolstered or destroyed because of this case?
I own a Linux/Open Source systems design firm in St. Louis (which I won't name so no one can mod me down for mooching adverts). In honor of SCO & Microsoft and their efforts towards getting Linux and Open Source (at least in name) engrained into the minds of virtually everyone involved in a business that uses technology (as in all of them) I am starting radio advertising (something new to us) next week. I will run ads that piggy-back off of all the talk about Linux and OSS lately, sort of a "Heard a lot of talk about Linux and Open Source lately? Blah blah blah explain blah blah XYZ server blah blah free blah blah stable blah blah call blah .com" Talk about leveraging your advertising dollar. So if you're in St. Louis and you hear the ads, well, turn it up!
For those of you who think this has unduely tainted Linux and or OSS, I disagree completely. For the most part, people listen/read/etc. only peripherally and hear buzz-words while missing a great deal of content (listen to any radio ads lately?). Just my opinion, but we'll soon see if I'm right.
As it stands now, we're getting about 2 new OSS/Linux based projects per week. These are just a server and a PC, but rather full blown office systems. People have started to pay attention to things like bottom line, performance, long-range costs, REAL R.O.I., etc.
Later, got lots of work to do.
ER
IF the offending code is actually from the Unix System V kernel dated in early 1980s (predating the first Linux kernel), and it is not from BSD, and if it is primarily in Linux kernel 2.4/2.5 and it wasn't put there by SCO/Caldera employees THEN what are the legal consequences for this lawsuit?
/ 13/10552207 51243.html
I strongly prefer that SCO lose this case but in light of what I'm hearing now, I can't help but wonder if they have a stronger case than we all imagined earlier. Just because we wish something to be true doesn't mean it has to be true.
Here are some quotes from the interview with Laura Didio of Yankee Group regarding this:
1. 'There are "bits and pieces" of copied material in Linux version 2.2, according to SCO. However, the vast majority of their claims centre around the later Linux 2.4 and 2.5 versions.'
2. 'The Yankee Group as well as the other analyst firms and members of the press, were only shown small portions of a few pieces of code. In my case, I saw Unix System V, version 4.1. Incidentally, this particular code is from the early 1980s, and hence predates Linus Torvalds' first Linux code.'
3. 'SCO hired three separate teams of code experts, including a group from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. According to SCO, these groups all found code in Linux that purportedly originated in the Unix System V kernel and not BSD.'
I wanted to keep this post relatively short so I suggest you read the entire interview to get better context to the quotes and to get the full story.
Source:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06
-- this is a very nice operating environment for our porpoises.
First of all, best typo ever.
Second: Scott? Scott McNealy, is that you?
Third (in relation to the typo).
They call him FLIPPER, FLIPPER....faster than lightning humm-hum-hum-hum-hummm.
Ok, I'm done...time to go out to the greens and do some dolph...golfin'.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Even the developpers of the IBM journalled filesytem (JFS) don't have access at all to the AIX version of the same filesystem. So, I think SCO is just shooting itself in the foot.
In fact, they just try to delay customers' acceptance of Linux and try to find someone to pay for there lack of business intelligence.
Achille Talon
Hop!
There was no final judgement, but the judge did issue a written opinion in declining AT&T's request for a preliminary injunction. That's an indication that the judge thought that AT&T didn't have much chance of winning the case.
An indication like that can certainly encourage the plaintiff to see the wisdom of dropping the suit and seeing what kind of settlement they can get.
-- Alastair
Read rest of the artical here: http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-19-Inju
And least there is a place where unfair competition acts are based on common sense.
This could be crucial. Please, a better translation from a bilingual. If this says what I think it does it could be quite important, but I don't trust my interpretation of an automatic translation so much...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Today I had the opportunity to have a look at the relevant code-sections. By a mistake on the part of the representing law office my colleague and I, in contrast to the 7 other people who received insight today, did not have to sign a NDA. Contrary to the examiners of Microsoft, who must keep silence obviously even with their own superiors, and are only allowed to report to their internal audit department.
Now, to the code:
Under notarial supervision 46 pages, each with half code from Linux (to a large extent printed posts directly from the Linux Kernel mailing list) were shown and the other half with listings from SCO. Whether it is actually SysV source is not possible to determine, since they are taken out of context. Also it is interesting to note that all dates were removed from both, even from the comments.
The comments are actually identical in parts, even some jokes are the same on both sides. Remarkable is however, that the code before the comments of the most matching parts is quite different. The fundamental structure of the relevant functions is similar, the concrete implementation however quite different. Variable names and functions names are different, loops are structured differently, conditions are implemented through chains of conditions or bit-patterns. In the end only one thing can be said with confidence: The functionality made available by the respective code sections is often alike, which was to be expected. In the concrete implementation however, there are so many differences that a proof of the same origin will be difficult, although not impossible.
The crucial point however is a function of the scheduler, which is about 60 lines, which is actually identical apart from small differences. There are also many matching comments. Comparable similarity exhibits only one routine of the memory management, however here only in the Linux version there are comments at all. Whether with this two matching sections a judicious proof can be provided, only a lawyer can tell. The vague similarities of other parts are insufficient in my opinion, since both were written based on the same standards so certain similiarites are to be expected.
In regard to the identical comments however, I'm unable to find an explanation. That would have to be examined again more closely in any case, in particular with included dates. Because only with them a breach of copyright could actually be proven. In regard to the discussions about the parts of Linux distributed by SCO/Caldera under the GPL, it has to be said that no court ever actually confirmed the validity of the GPL.
If it is found to be valid however, SCO can only use the parts of Linux it didn't publish and wasn't involved in developing. This is another difficulty I see in the coming trial.
But since the original, unpatched Linux source hasn't been attacked, but only modifications included in different distributions, it has to be determined if they possibly own the rights to the said parts, either direct or indirect e.g. by buyouts or "all-inclusive-deals". Chances for an actual trial aren't very good, since most of comparable cases settled out of court.
This is however only my personally view, relevant in the end is only the decision of of the representing lawyers of both sides and/or eventually the responsible court.
Is SCO's board Chaired by Dr. Evil?
"We pretend they stole the code, and ask for ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS?"
No. 2 "I could have been on Forbes, but you, like an IDIOT, wanted to sue IBM"
Because I find it endlessly amusing, I will now shamelessly steal from SA:
"We're confident that DNF will be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, game of 1998. And this confidence is not misplaced." - Scott Miller, 1997
"Duke Nukem Forever is a 1999 game and we think that timeframe matches very well with what we have planned for the game." - George Broussard, 1998
"Trust us, Duke Nukem Forever will rock when it comes out next year." - Joe Siegler, 1999
"When it's done in 2001." - 2000 Christmas card
"DNF will come out before Unreal 2." - George Broussard, 2001
"If DNF is not out in 2001, something's very wrong." - George Broussard, 2001
"DNF will come out before Doom 3." - George Broussard, 2002
Today I had the opportunity to look at the [incriminating?] code snippets.
Through a mistake of the representing Law firm, my colleague and I did not have to sign an NDA, unlike the other 7 representatives that also were viewing the code today. This is in stark contrast to the Microsoft representatives who apparently even had to maintain silence with their own supervisors, and were only allowed to report back to their internal [Legal?] department.
Now to the code itself:
46 pages each containing one half Linux code (largely printed posts out of the linux-kernel lists) and one half listings from SCO were presented under legal supervision. It is therefore not possible to tell whether this actually comes from SysV-Sources, as they are taken out of context. Also interisting is that all dates are taken out of both parts, even out of the comments.
The comments are in fact identical in places. Even some of the jokes are the same on both sides. What is apparent, though, is that in the most similar places the preceding source code is quite different. The basic structure of the affected functions are similar, but the concrete implementation is quite different. Variables and function names are different, loops are structured differently, conditions run on chained conditionals or bitmaps. All in all only one thing is sure: the functions presented in the code-snippets were often the same, which was to be expected, though.
In the concrete implementation there are so many differences, however, that a proof of the same origin will be hard to construct, albeit not impossible.
However one function of the scheduler presents a [breaking point?], as except for minor differences it is identical. In this case there are also a whole row of matching comments.
Only one routine of the Memory Management offers comparable similarity. In this case, however, only the linux version has comments.
Only a lawyer could safely judge whether these two similarities alone provide proof enough for a verdict. The vague similarties in other parts are, in my opinion, insufficient, since a certain similarity is to be expected as both pieces are based on the same standards. On the other hand, I have no clue where the identical comments in different code could come from. In any case, this should be researched more closely, especially with the dates restored. Only with these would a copyright infringement be provable.
As to the discussion of the piece of Linux sold by SCO/Caldera itself under the GPL, one has to take into account that no Court has commented on the enforcability of the GPL yet...
[Sorry ran out of time. I will try to get to the rest later. Perhaps someone else can translate the rest.]
Add this to the mix. Here is an excerpt from a Novell information page on Unixware 2. 4. UnixWare 2 offers greater performance and scalability.UnixWare 2's multiprocessing technology has been in development, testing, tuning, and optimization for Intel SMP platforms since 1991, when it was originally designed as SVR4 ESMP in cooperation with Sequent, Pyramid, and other industry leading SMP platform providers. (http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/1995/03/ pr00026.html)
The Unixware SMP capabilities was not developed by Novell alone when it owned Unixware. Who actually owns he copyright for the SMP (NUMA) code in Unixware?
Too much misinformation in the interview is hurting my head now. Just look at the very last line.. once code has been placed under GPL it cannot be altered! But alteration is what GPL is all about.. to take the code and change it.
/*TODO*/ or #include<kernel.h>
They only showed PART of the code, that she recognised as Sys V 4.1 vs linux kernel 2.4. It was from no region of the source.. just here and there. Could even be a line that goes
She also does not have experience with looking at sourcecode. She instead carried with her a tech guy. Where was he from? Who was paying him? whats his name? How much development experience does he have? Did he do a cmp or diff on the code blocks in question? Where is his interview?
Even IBMs customers I suppose are getting a gist of whats happening here. Only the most nervous and illinformed managers will be moved to Windows 2003. They will be deserving it.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Here you will find the pdf of the Linux Kernel Internals, authored by Tigran Aivazian (tigran@veritas.com). Now, he has been submitting patches to the kernel for a long time.
He submitted patches for (among others)
Microcode updates
...)
iBCS patches
kgdb patches
Linux Implementation of SCO UnixWare BFS
and I'm sure a lot more, across a wide range of kernel versions (2.2/2.3/2.4
Why does this matter? Well his email used to be tigran@ocston.org. odd domain name, try reversing it.search and look at the first two results, then look here for more info about the first entry.
Before that his email was tigran@sco.org, but he
got a little paranoid
about it.
Searching google brings up patches supplied by him throughout the whole development cycle of 2.3/2.4 and more. He is directly connected to the author of the LKP on SCO Unix, draw your own conclusions here.
[for investors and speculators only]
As the story about SCO suing IBM is unfolding, SCOX stock went from $1 in Feb this year to $4 in May, then to $8.5 in the end of May, then to $12 today. Some people were already selling short that stock at $8.5, but SCOX, after what happened today, has a good chance to go even higher following a pullback to $9.8. How much higher?, $13-14 is the next high in two-three weeks from now. If you want to ignore this information you can, but I'm going to make some moeny instead.
[the next update will follow in a month]
IP was invented for the sake of lawsuits.
"No one ever got fired by going with IBM"
This SCO crap is all about FUD. IBM invented FUD.
I haven't seen IBM blink yet.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
if these two Germans are not under the NDA they should just post the code. If it was lifted from BSD, the original author should be able to identify their own work.
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too