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Senator Orrin Hatch a Pirate?
Stigmata669 writes "Remember a few days ago when Senator Orrin Hatch decided that software piracy was punishable by destruction of computers? Well a bored and unemployed Sys. Admin in Houston smelled a rat when he was rooting through Hatch's website source. As it turns out Sen. Hatch is a common software pirate himself."
The article title is just alittle bit senstational... The senator's web designer didn't register *free* software (you have to pay for commerical use only). He was in violation of the software license. Obviously nobody on slashdot has ever violated a software license (if not please direct me to all that shareware you registered in under 30 days).
It hardly damages his stance against downloading music.
I'd say the only thing really damaging there is that he's from Utah.
Oh well, keep fighting the good fight.
-Rob
You're right. Hatch isn't the pirate, his web designer is, but it doesn't make it any less funny and ironic. :P
Don't call him a "pirate," unless he was proven guilty of abordage! Otherwise we just sound silly, claiming that Dimitry was not a pirate, but Orrin Hatch suddenly is. Please don't be so inconsistent. Pirate is a pirate. A person guilty of copyright infringement is a person guilty of copyright infringement. Please don't use incorrect meanings of words, at least on Slashdot.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
You're an idiot. I live in utah too and even though Orrin Hatch is scum, the only way he won't be reelected is if he decides not to run.
Not to mention the fact that the seniority system in the senate pretty much means that if he isn't elected utah takes a hit as far as influence goes. Not that utah has a lot of influence, but he is the most influential utah politician in washington right now.
I register all my shareware, or uninstall it before the stated evaluation period ends. If you do otherwise, shame.
I do not install unlicensed software in production environments. My personal computer is different, but I still conform to the license requirements or remove the software.
You're talking to sysadmins here -- you'll find relatively few pirates in the bunch. You might rethink your accusations in light of your audience.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
If someone actually destroyed the server hosting his website, he'd be the first person lining up to put them in jail. Come on, Hatch, of all the things to take a ridiculous stand on; copyrights? Is $18,000/yr really that important to you?
I'd like to see how Hatch's constituents react when they find out he's the one who authored the law that let the music company destroy their computer because little Johnny wanted to hear the latest trendy music hit.
And yes, I understand that no such bill would ever make it anywhere, but for a high-ranking Senator to even suggest such an idea is absolutely unforgiveable. There's no excuse for violating imaginary property rights, but there is an excuse for willfully destroying the physical property of someone? I don't know whether he's really serious about such an idea, but assuming for a moment that there's a bit of sanity left in his noggin, I think he needs to choose his words more wisely. The fact is, this simply cannot work out well for him, and will only provide fuel for his critics and those who would like to take his seat.
Quite frankly, the man has no concept of what he's talking about, and needs to sit down, shut up, and listen to what others have to say for a change.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?Fuseaction= Students.Utah
And click on the MyUtahSearch.com graphic...
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
Go to Sen. Hatch's web site and click on the "MyUtahSearch.com" graphic on the right hand side of the page. It redirects you to a [not safe for work] pr0n site.
[Thanks to The Turd Report for pointing this out on K5.]
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
..because no one would be afraid of the dread pirate Orin!
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
I think this episode just verified that observation.
The scary thing is that because none of us are perfect, anyone with an axe to grind can mill through the most innant details of our personal lives and bring it to the public attention, that of our wife, boss, friends, co-workers, etc.., highly magnifying what they think we did wrong.
This could be quite a way for one to harass another.
Like, now Senator Hatch himself has gone onto public record as advocating destruction of other's private property.. what if instead of some government official talking about destruction of other's property, it was somebody else talking about it? Where are we going to draw the line between a "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
So...let me see if I have this straight...slashdot is running an article on an elected official doing something illegal?
We're gonna need more space if this is the start of a trend.
A LOT more space.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
piÂrate
n.
1.
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. A ship used for this purpose.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
3. One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization.
4. One that operates an unlicensed, illegal television or radio station.
What's your point?
He may not be at fault but as the 'leader' of his political presence, he is responsible. And since he is advocating vigilante 'justice' and seems to be will to throw out 'innocent until proven guilty' he of all people deserve the stiffest penalty. I'll tell you if that bill passes I bet you more than a new DMCA complaints are gonna be leveling against the govt. And those licenses that allow free personal and govt. use? Well they wont allow free govt. use anymore.
(Avoiding the filter is an art. Art rules.)
YOU ARE SO FIRED!
(had to do it)
Laws are for people with no friends.
First of all, it probably wouldn't work. I would bet that the US Government has plenty of bandwidth.
Second, if you were to take that site down, you would take down every senator's site, including the sites of some good senators. Its isn't right to do that just because of one dumbass senator.
#include "sig.h"
I'm also from Utah, an ardent Democrat, and there's no chance in hell Hatch will be kicked out of office.
The problem is that he already has a ton of power and pull in Washington where seniority rules. He's chairman of the most esteemed committee in Washington, and has blessing from the Church.
The only person that has a shot to beat him is someone like Rocky Anderson, Salt Lake's Mayor, (also featured on Insomniac tonight) and they would make him out to be the next coming of the devil. After all, he's for (shock) environmental concern, and civil liberties! Utah is a recessive state. Or at least for now...
Face it, Utah politics is as complacent as it gets, and probably why Orrin can say this kind of silliness and get away with it.
It's the glass house idea. I know it isn't piracy per se, but it's a close enough cousin.
Before a person in office criticizes an action, they should make pretty darn sure that they don't even have the appearance of being tainted by the act or anything close. Delegate the role. But check.
The bar is lower for nonpublic figures. Our words don't weigh as much in the public eye.
Now he'll have to be the brunt of embarrassing questions like "why should your computer not be destroyed?" It just weakens his stance.
Esteem isn't a zero sum game
Surely the Senator didn't create the page himself? He might not even know what the Javascript is for. Sure, if he knew that the webmaster was doing something wrong, and he didn't stop it, then he would be at fault, but there's no proof of that here.
Of course, my opinion above is from a common sense perspective, rather than a legal one.
Dropbox drops it like it's hot.
Nominate him for DU's Top Ten Conservative Idiots! (Go to the bottom of the page for nominating instructions)
This is funny, but the sad thing is that it will in no way affect Hatch's platform nor media credibility.
I imagine that tommorow a sysadmin and a webdesigner will be out of a job. And that sucks in today's market.
I mean, really, you think an old senator put a website together by himself? WITH javascript!
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
When I read about Hatch's little idea, this is what I came up with as responses:
1. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
2. What ever happened to getting a warrant?
3. What ever happened to a fair trial in front of a jury of peers?
4. What ever happened to the government running the police, instead of the corporations.
5. What ever happens when someone at a record label royally screws up and fries the hard drive of someone with legiminate copies of MP3's (say of my band or ripped legally from CD's I own)?
Holy crap:
The "My Utah Search" graphic here links to a porn site. This is beautiful.
The House of Represenatives has a re-election rate of some 96%.
God we need term limits!
Plus, knowing Hatch and the rest of them, it would be considered attacking the government, and thus an act of terrorism.
Being a smartass is a much better thing than being the alternative.
> Where are we going to draw the line between a
> "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
A patriot is a terrorist who's on our side; a terrorist is a patriot who's on their side
Got any more?
Ah but since this is software piracy the entire organization is responsible. As the head of his office Sen. Hatch is ultimately responsible for any piracy that goes on in his organization.
Anyway go here http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy.
I was somewhat involved with Napster back in its heyday. I once visited their office, and was introduced to a new employee who came straight out of Orrin Hatch's office. He used to be an assistant of some sort to Hatch, and was clearly hired by Napster because he could serve as a lobbyist of sorts with some very direct Washington contacts. The funny thing is, as soon as they hired this guy, Hatch came out in strong support of Napster and defended them for a time.
I was amazed, but not surprised. That's not the sort of position one would have expected from the likes of Orrin Hatch, but clearly is ex-assistant was having significant influence on him in Napster's favor. How ironic, yet also unsurprising, that in the wake of Napster's demise, Hatch has pretty much gone 180 degrees from his previous stance.
Go to http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy
The Milonic DHTML Menu was totally free a little while ago.
For them to change the licensing terms retroactively ( "EVERY copy of our JavaScript menu needs to be licensed" - are they really insiting that older copies that were downloaded with it was advertised as free now be paid for and/or registered?) seems very shady to me.
Having taken absolutist or extreme positions on an issue, you can't credibly defend yourself for things that most people would just shrug off.
Bill Bennet cannot credibly author a "Book of Virtues" in adult and children's editions, make $25,000 a speech daily, and then point out that most people gamble and private lives are nobody's business.
Rhonda Storms could not credibly call for the dismantling of Hillsborough Countie's Public Access stations for supposed IP abuses (after losing for years to overcome first amendment responses to her efforts to censor what she deemed offensive programming), requiring that all producers undertake IP sensitivity training, and then defend her unlicensed synchronized parody of the Beach Boys' tune "Help Me Rhonda" in an election commercial as a reasonable oversight.
Likewise, Orin Hatch cannot insist that a few infringements of a few tunes are evil enough to justify a government official's call for destruction of personal property without due process and simultaneously argue that he should be forgiven for not studying a licensing agreement.
Who's the owner of the site ? Hatch or the webmonkey ?
His name is all over the place, it is HIS website, so he should be held accountable of what's found on it. I remember hearing something like "ignorance is not a valid defense".
If I was going to put my name on something I did not write, I'd damn well make sure my legal team audits each and every bit of it to insure I wouldnt get myself in hot water over it.
This man is a self-proclaimed copyright professional. I guess he should have known better.
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
For the love of god mod this up. I thought he was joking, but it's true! It's true I tell you. http://www.myutahsearch.com/
seeing as how he's in utah, maybe a butte pirate?
Whatchew talkin' bout, Willis? Butte is in Montana...
Senator Hatch is, overall, a great guy. The other congressmen from Utah (except for Jim Matheson, a moderate Democrat who managed to barely hold on to his House seat despite the careful gerrymandering of our terrible State Legislature) vote harder-than-hard-line Republican, often seemingly without any thought. Hatch has genuinely tried to investigate the issues and work towards solutions- even though the solutions he engineers get fairly widely booed in Utah since they may deviate from the Party Line. In just about all previous instances when I have disagreed with Sen. Hatch's views, I have nevertheless felt them to be well-reasoned and somewhat justified.
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
ROCK THE VOTE!
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
wow, great news. now if only he were a congressman and not a senator.
Does everyone remember all the congresscritters out on the steps singing God Bless America? That had an audience of over a billion but did they pay the royalties to the Boy & Girl Scouts? I bet they didn't even check out the copyright before they decided it was a good idea. But it means they all broke copyright law.
If anyone gets to talk to a Senator, this is a very good thing to bring up. According to standard copyright rates, they all owe more in royalties than most of them will ever see and some of these guys play with the national debt.
I'm visiting the US for a week, and have realised where the power here comes from: The Media.
CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, ABC/Disney, and ALL of the others seem to be based on pure viceral knee-jerk reporting. If you want to see Sen. Hatch get in trouble, sic the reporters on him.
Seriously. The media is living on exploitation, either their own or others. Exploit them to the best of your abilities, and watch things explode.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Politicians better fix the economy and end the tech-visa programs before more bored and unemployed techies turn up more dirt on them.
You know what they say: An idle IT person will hack into the devil's workshop.
Table-ized A.I.
Even better, if Hatch's suggested remedy of remote destruction of computers violating IP was legal, the owner of the script in question would be entitled to DESTROY THE US SENATE.GOV SERVER.
Yep, that sure sounds like the kind of guy I want making decisions about IP and technology.
Lets just notify the BSA, and I'm sure they and Senator Hatch can amicably (massive audit) settle this "oversight".
- NOPIRACY
http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/report.php
1-888
Lets see how Mr. Hatch likes his computers destroyed.
Well, I seem to recall they stopped this practice, since a judge somewhere determined that this was depriving the defendant of "due process."
So-- how could the use of computer-destroying technology be legally sanctioned? There is no due process. Sure, the technology could be used, but officially, the perpetrator would be subject to fines, legal damages, and/or jail time, just like any other virus-writing script-kiddie.
Orrin Hatch is really just advocating vigilanteism, which is an abandonment of the whole legal system. What's next? Should I start waving a pistol at everybody who cuts me off, or torching the car of that guy down the street who plays his stereo too loud?
Let's take it one step further. Let's have it so that we not only destroy the music pirate's computer, but we overload his power supply, cause a fire, and burn down his house, and hopefully all his neighbors' houses, too, since they probably were in on it as well...
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
And your point is...?
If my daughter downloads songs on my machine, will Hatch NOT blow mine up?
It's his site; it's his responsibility.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
No, this time does not constitute an exception. Orrin was also the sponsor of another misguided piece of legislation that maybe you've heard of, the DMCA.
Orrin has taken over 175K so far just this year from the TV/Movies/Music lobby
Orrin is one of the WORST congressmen this country has EVER had. Bought off like every other congressman but he apparently is not only paid off but stupid about the legislation that he introduces.
Now jensend, as a constituent I suggest that you get informed on these issues that your idiot congressman makes the rest of the country suffer for.
Where does SCO, Novell, Center 7 and the Canopy Group live and work and have their being? Utah!
The Canopy Group, a Utah firm with investments in dozens of companies owns the controlling interest in SCO. That's right, SCO.
Do you consider Hatch's proclamation coincidental to the Copyright issues Canopy has brought up against IBM and Linux as SCO's alter ego? This is a classic special interest lobby created to move public interest in a daring direction.
This senator has some interesting harmonics in his small world.
Historically, incumbents in the US Senate rarely lose an election, regardless of what they do.
A special investigator found evidence proving Senator Robert Packwood of Oregon in violation of campaign finance. The investigation yielded a scandal as Packwood's address book yielded names and address of his many mistresses.
Still, he resigned. No one voted him out.
The power base of a US Senator self perpetuates. During elections, they will be working on a major initiative or project. They will head a major committee. The voters will not vote them out. The state could be conservative and the Senator a liberal and he'll still win.
Senator Hatch has a self perpetuating power base and a very loyal constituency in a state where religion rules.
He's like the basketball player Karl Malone, he'll never retire.
Here's the danger: This guy has the ability to influence state, federal and local legislation.
And he is not demonstrated support for open source.
In our world, he's a butt-head. In the world of the uninformed, he's as right as right can be.
Utah politics is not more complacent or different than any other state.
It is however the power base of software firms and big, big dollars that are not our friends.
Pot here. You are black! I repeat: You are black!
For instance, if Hatch suggested a law allowing you to destroy the computers of spammers, he'd be a hero. If he suggested being able to destroy the computers of anti-trust violators, Slashdotters would be singing his praises. But instead he talks about music piracy, so out comes the tar and the feathers.
According to this software piracy information PDF made by the BSA in paragraph 4, the US Senate is liable for this unlicensed software:
"Many businesses, both large and small, face serious legal risks because
of software piracy. Under the law, a company can be held liable
for its employeesâ(TM) actions. If an employee is installing unauthorized
software copies on company computers or acquiring illegal software
through the Internet, the company can be sued for copyright
infringement. This is true even if the companyâ(TM)s management was
unaware of the employeeâ(TM)s actions."
-Valen
The Wired article brought a few important points to mind.
We do have term limits, they are called elections. Use your vote to elect them out of office. Better yet, use your voice and get fellow members of the electorate to help you in this.
Term limits would hurt politicians that are good as well as those that are scum.
That is the beauty of a democratic system. We get the opportunity to throw out the crummy tyrants and try to elect good tyrants.
Check out this link: http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
See the second CD from the bottom of the page, "Many Different Roads"? I thought the cover art looked awfully familiar. Turns out I have a copy of that rose picture on my hard drive from years ago. It's all over the web, and can be found via Google image search.
I don't know the history of that particular image or who owns the copyright to it, but I can't help but wonder if the good senator bothered to find out...
-BK
Chemical Blog
The page has already been changed, but google still has the cache
Grab it while you can!
and has blessing from the Church.
:-)
Some other posters have claimed that this power is actually pretty trivial. Let me make this as abundantly clear as I possibly can.
WRONG.
I have witnessed personally that simply being Mormon gives you opportunities that one should clearly not have the right to. I recently saw every single hiring rule of the _corporation_ I work for, broken, to hire someone massively underqualified for a UNIX (not Linux) admin position. I had to show this guy how to use the 'ls' and 'cd' commands AFTER he was given this position. He also did not interview for this position. How can this happen you ask?
CEO of corporation needs blessing of several committees that Hatch sits on, hence, a huge percentage of uppers in this company, just magically happen to be mormon, including the VP 3 levels above the person in question, who bypassed all of the HR rules and regulations, elected not to make underqualifed person submit to a standard interview, and gave them the job.
Yes, it's discrimiation. there are labor laws against this. And there is a huge law on the books, that prevents Orrin Hatch from playing religious favorites legally. Little thing called the the First Amendment.
To anyone who lives in UT, vote this small minded bastard out of office, NOW. Get his paid-off ass back into the 'Temple' where it belongs. Preachers have no business in politics.
Yes, I'm posting this anonymously for obvious reason, I actually have excellent Karma, go figure.
Fine, but that, IMO, is directly analogous to the idea of destroying a computer because it has been used for piracy. Consider the modern computing environment where multiple users may (and do) use one machine for a variety of purposes. Tell me, should all users of the machine suffer if one of them downloads music illegally? If all users on that one machine may be legally targetted because of the actions of one user on the same machine (which is basically Hatch's position) then surely he should be held accountable for someone else's work on his Web site. I mean, it's his site, not mine, not yours and certainly not his Webmaster's.
This only goes to show further how out-of-touch and un-informed Hatch really is about computers. He should be making no laws governing their usage until he can build his own fucking web site.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Also, he seems to comply with the terms of the license in the source code of the page. Moreover, any asshole that spends a few hours writing JavaScript code and enforcing a half-baked license to ruin someone's political career (for publicities' sake probably) should get a swift kick in the ass.
DHTML Menu version 3.3
written by Andy Woolley
Copyright 2002 Andy Woolley. All Rights Reserved.
Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge.
You can also distribute and modify this source code as long as this
Copyright notice remains intact and that you send me notice that you
intend to use this code on your website.
Limited support for this script is provided
Commercial licence agreements are available on request for use & full support.
You can send email to menu3@milonic.com
Milonic DHTML Website Navigation Menu - Version 3.x
Written by Andy Woolley - Copyright 2002 (c) Milonic Solutions Limited. All Rights Reserved.
Please visit http://www.milonic.co.uk/menu or e-mail menu3@milonic.com for more information.
The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites.
Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets.
All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your
intentions to use the menu and send us your URL.
I just got done writing him a letter and submitting it through his site.
Here it is:
Dear Sir,
Having read your recent proposition that copyright holders be able to "destroy" the computers of those who download their works without permission I am frankly appalled. I understand that as a copyright holder yourself this might be a hot topic for you but please do not let your emotions overcome common sense.
As a profesional Systems Administrator, I understand the problem of unlicenced downloading. It is a plauge on the bandwith of the systems I administer. However, your proposed solution is one of the worst I have ever heard suggested. Copyright does not take precedence over private property laws. Second this would cause untold financial damage to buisnesses, educational institutions, and government agencies who's machiens were used by employees to download music. In the case of medical, or military computers it could even cause loss of life.
Since your website was recently discovered to be running unlicenced software this campaign of yours is rather hypocritical.
I strongly suggest that you drop this idea immediatly as unrealistic. I suggest instead that you pursue reducing the length of copyrights and/or making it much easier for material to go into the public domain. This would allow for a much greater amount of material to be LEGALLY downloaded. People prefer to do the right and honest thing, as well as avoid possible crimes and their consequences. If they have more legal options for downloads many will choose the legal choice rather than the immoral one - thus allowing artists seeking to make a just profit from their recent works, while fulfilling the original intent of copyright - to provide a limited short term monopoly on creative works as an incentive for more material to be released and the public domain be nurtured.
Respectfully,
-name ommited from slashdot-
I've dealt with him !
1-800-P I R A C Y... You've got a friend @ the BSA !
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
To take it a step farther, what we really need is a 24/7 âoeGovCamâ to be permanently mounted on every elected official so we can tune in and see what the hell they are up to.
Itâ(TM)s a network show thatâ(TM)s guaranteed to make The Sopranos dull and drab to be sure. And then some brave media company can put together a website where there is a Survivor-like online game and the losing politicians are exploded out of office.
Starting with Orrin Hatch, of course. Live by remote detonation, die by remote detonation.
If people would check Milonic's website before blabbering on slashdot, they will notice that Hatch has resolved this issue:
"We have received many emails regarding the implementation of our software and Milonic are pleased to announce that there are no longer any licensing issues with reference to the above [Orin Hatch] website..."
Naw, just prevent candidates from running more than two *consecutive* terms. If they're really popular they can switch between the senate and the house, but otherwise it would serve to shake things up without depriving us of experience. It worked for the Romans for hundreds of years; and it wasn't a failure of this system that led to the fall of the Republic.
This sig wasn't worth reading, was it.
The software that is 'pirated' is from a UK company. Sen. Hatch is not interesting in protecting the rights of anyone but the big American companies that pay his bills...