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Senator Orrin Hatch a Pirate?
Stigmata669 writes "Remember a few days ago when Senator Orrin Hatch decided that software piracy was punishable by destruction of computers? Well a bored and unemployed Sys. Admin in Houston smelled a rat when he was rooting through Hatch's website source. As it turns out Sen. Hatch is a common software pirate himself."
Ready... aim... Fire! Slashdot him!
The article title is just alittle bit senstational... The senator's web designer didn't register *free* software (you have to pay for commerical use only). He was in violation of the software license. Obviously nobody on slashdot has ever violated a software license (if not please direct me to all that shareware you registered in under 30 days).
It hardly damages his stance against downloading music.
I'd say the only thing really damaging there is that he's from Utah.
Oh well, keep fighting the good fight.
-Rob
That's why software should be free?
I have been pwned because my
You're right. Hatch isn't the pirate, his web designer is, but it doesn't make it any less funny and ironic. :P
This guys knows how to advertise himself. Imagine getting your name out there in the mass median and the fact you are unemployed.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
it's a lot easier and software-licence free to do it using css. All you need to do is hide the html part of each menu, and when the menu title is moused-over, the css, and something like two lines of JavaScript, will display the menu. No muss, no fuss.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Don't call him a "pirate," unless he was proven guilty of abordage! Otherwise we just sound silly, claiming that Dimitry was not a pirate, but Orrin Hatch suddenly is. Please don't be so inconsistent. Pirate is a pirate. A person guilty of copyright infringement is a person guilty of copyright infringement. Please don't use incorrect meanings of words, at least on Slashdot.
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
You're an idiot. I live in utah too and even though Orrin Hatch is scum, the only way he won't be reelected is if he decides not to run.
Not to mention the fact that the seniority system in the senate pretty much means that if he isn't elected utah takes a hit as far as influence goes. Not that utah has a lot of influence, but he is the most influential utah politician in washington right now.
I register all my shareware, or uninstall it before the stated evaluation period ends. If you do otherwise, shame.
I do not install unlicensed software in production environments. My personal computer is different, but I still conform to the license requirements or remove the software.
You're talking to sysadmins here -- you'll find relatively few pirates in the bunch. You might rethink your accusations in light of your audience.
http://drteknikal.blogspot.com/
If someone actually destroyed the server hosting his website, he'd be the first person lining up to put them in jail. Come on, Hatch, of all the things to take a ridiculous stand on; copyrights? Is $18,000/yr really that important to you?
I'd like to see how Hatch's constituents react when they find out he's the one who authored the law that let the music company destroy their computer because little Johnny wanted to hear the latest trendy music hit.
And yes, I understand that no such bill would ever make it anywhere, but for a high-ranking Senator to even suggest such an idea is absolutely unforgiveable. There's no excuse for violating imaginary property rights, but there is an excuse for willfully destroying the physical property of someone? I don't know whether he's really serious about such an idea, but assuming for a moment that there's a bit of sanity left in his noggin, I think he needs to choose his words more wisely. The fact is, this simply cannot work out well for him, and will only provide fuel for his critics and those who would like to take his seat.
Quite frankly, the man has no concept of what he's talking about, and needs to sit down, shut up, and listen to what others have to say for a change.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/index.cfm?Fuseaction= Students.Utah
And click on the MyUtahSearch.com graphic...
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
Go to Sen. Hatch's web site and click on the "MyUtahSearch.com" graphic on the right hand side of the page. It redirects you to a [not safe for work] pr0n site.
[Thanks to The Turd Report for pointing this out on K5.]
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
..because no one would be afraid of the dread pirate Orin!
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
I think this episode just verified that observation.
The scary thing is that because none of us are perfect, anyone with an axe to grind can mill through the most innant details of our personal lives and bring it to the public attention, that of our wife, boss, friends, co-workers, etc.., highly magnifying what they think we did wrong.
This could be quite a way for one to harass another.
Like, now Senator Hatch himself has gone onto public record as advocating destruction of other's private property.. what if instead of some government official talking about destruction of other's property, it was somebody else talking about it? Where are we going to draw the line between a "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
So...let me see if I have this straight...slashdot is running an article on an elected official doing something illegal?
We're gonna need more space if this is the start of a trend.
A LOT more space.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
piÂrate
n.
1.
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. A ship used for this purpose.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
3. One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization.
4. One that operates an unlicensed, illegal television or radio station.
What's your point?
He may not be at fault but as the 'leader' of his political presence, he is responsible. And since he is advocating vigilante 'justice' and seems to be will to throw out 'innocent until proven guilty' he of all people deserve the stiffest penalty. I'll tell you if that bill passes I bet you more than a new DMCA complaints are gonna be leveling against the govt. And those licenses that allow free personal and govt. use? Well they wont allow free govt. use anymore.
Oh my god, what a rare and shocking revelation.
While it is quite funny is see our politibots when they get caught in their hyrpocrisy, I hope I wasn't the only one who wasn't surprised to read this.
(Avoiding the filter is an art. Art rules.)
YOU ARE SO FIRED!
(had to do it)
Laws are for people with no friends.
I'm also from Utah, an ardent Democrat, and there's no chance in hell Hatch will be kicked out of office.
The problem is that he already has a ton of power and pull in Washington where seniority rules. He's chairman of the most esteemed committee in Washington, and has blessing from the Church.
The only person that has a shot to beat him is someone like Rocky Anderson, Salt Lake's Mayor, (also featured on Insomniac tonight) and they would make him out to be the next coming of the devil. After all, he's for (shock) environmental concern, and civil liberties! Utah is a recessive state. Or at least for now...
Face it, Utah politics is as complacent as it gets, and probably why Orrin can say this kind of silliness and get away with it.
It's the glass house idea. I know it isn't piracy per se, but it's a close enough cousin.
Before a person in office criticizes an action, they should make pretty darn sure that they don't even have the appearance of being tainted by the act or anything close. Delegate the role. But check.
The bar is lower for nonpublic figures. Our words don't weigh as much in the public eye.
Now he'll have to be the brunt of embarrassing questions like "why should your computer not be destroyed?" It just weakens his stance.
Esteem isn't a zero sum game
Surely the Senator didn't create the page himself? He might not even know what the Javascript is for. Sure, if he knew that the webmaster was doing something wrong, and he didn't stop it, then he would be at fault, but there's no proof of that here.
Of course, my opinion above is from a common sense perspective, rather than a legal one.
Dropbox drops it like it's hot.
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - GIF patent US4,558,302 was found expired in its patent office filing cabinet this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the internet community will miss it - even if you didn't enjoy the litigation, there's no denying its contribution to bandwidth conservation. Truly a compression icon.
Nominate him for DU's Top Ten Conservative Idiots! (Go to the bottom of the page for nominating instructions)
This is funny, but the sad thing is that it will in no way affect Hatch's platform nor media credibility.
I imagine that tommorow a sysadmin and a webdesigner will be out of a job. And that sucks in today's market.
I mean, really, you think an old senator put a website together by himself? WITH javascript!
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
When I read about Hatch's little idea, this is what I came up with as responses:
1. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
2. What ever happened to getting a warrant?
3. What ever happened to a fair trial in front of a jury of peers?
4. What ever happened to the government running the police, instead of the corporations.
5. What ever happens when someone at a record label royally screws up and fries the hard drive of someone with legiminate copies of MP3's (say of my band or ripped legally from CD's I own)?
The House of Represenatives has a re-election rate of some 96%.
God we need term limits!
> Where are we going to draw the line between a
> "patriot" and a "terrorist"?
A patriot is a terrorist who's on our side; a terrorist is a patriot who's on their side
Got any more?
Ah but since this is software piracy the entire organization is responsible. As the head of his office Sen. Hatch is ultimately responsible for any piracy that goes on in his organization.
Anyway go here http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy.
It is very cheap.. Just go ahead and reply with your full name, credit card number w/ date of expiry, and what you want your ad to say, and I'll get you all set up.
I was somewhat involved with Napster back in its heyday. I once visited their office, and was introduced to a new employee who came straight out of Orrin Hatch's office. He used to be an assistant of some sort to Hatch, and was clearly hired by Napster because he could serve as a lobbyist of sorts with some very direct Washington contacts. The funny thing is, as soon as they hired this guy, Hatch came out in strong support of Napster and defended them for a time.
I was amazed, but not surprised. That's not the sort of position one would have expected from the likes of Orrin Hatch, but clearly is ex-assistant was having significant influence on him in Napster's favor. How ironic, yet also unsurprising, that in the wake of Napster's demise, Hatch has pretty much gone 180 degrees from his previous stance.
Go to http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/ and report Orrin for piracy
Opportunities to fight oppression don't come up like this everyday. If this doesn't get picked up by the popular press, the word needs to be spread. Email the URL to anyone you think it might influnce. Print the story and show it to you mom or grandma.
This reminds me of all the adulterous legislators who impeached Clinton.
The Milonic DHTML Menu was totally free a little while ago.
For them to change the licensing terms retroactively ( "EVERY copy of our JavaScript menu needs to be licensed" - are they really insiting that older copies that were downloaded with it was advertised as free now be paid for and/or registered?) seems very shady to me.
But a quick look at the Google Cache will let you see the original, licence-violating version.
---
Jedimom.com, leon's getting larger.
StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
...Professor....what is 'pirate booty'...?
Having taken absolutist or extreme positions on an issue, you can't credibly defend yourself for things that most people would just shrug off.
Bill Bennet cannot credibly author a "Book of Virtues" in adult and children's editions, make $25,000 a speech daily, and then point out that most people gamble and private lives are nobody's business.
Rhonda Storms could not credibly call for the dismantling of Hillsborough Countie's Public Access stations for supposed IP abuses (after losing for years to overcome first amendment responses to her efforts to censor what she deemed offensive programming), requiring that all producers undertake IP sensitivity training, and then defend her unlicensed synchronized parody of the Beach Boys' tune "Help Me Rhonda" in an election commercial as a reasonable oversight.
Likewise, Orin Hatch cannot insist that a few infringements of a few tunes are evil enough to justify a government official's call for destruction of personal property without due process and simultaneously argue that he should be forgiven for not studying a licensing agreement.
Who's the owner of the site ? Hatch or the webmonkey ?
His name is all over the place, it is HIS website, so he should be held accountable of what's found on it. I remember hearing something like "ignorance is not a valid defense".
If I was going to put my name on something I did not write, I'd damn well make sure my legal team audits each and every bit of it to insure I wouldnt get myself in hot water over it.
This man is a self-proclaimed copyright professional. I guess he should have known better.
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
Please enjoy this online traval and resource guide to help you explore our great state.
Dont' be to hardon him..
Integrated application integration with synergistic synergized synergy
I called Boring Orrin's office to complain and here was the reply I got:
"Senator Hatch's website was created via a third party who was responsible for the problem. The problem has now been corrected."
Those aren't the exact words but they effectively expressed his staffer's opinion.
But what really got me was the fact that the staffer refused to provide Senator Hatch's take on the matter and really seemed quite nonchalant about the whole affair.
I mentioned that I felt that Senator Hatch bears ultimate responsiblity for what is on his website and that I felt like he should own up to it.
Or to, at the very minimum, help pay the litigation costs of the person whose copyrighted material was stolen so that they could sue the crap out of the "third party web designer".
Once again I basically got a shrug type reaction from the staffer.
Those people don't have a clue!
If you want to make a difference, call Hatch's office, complain, then call your Senator's office and request that they punish him. If it's long distance for you then it will be a few bucks for each call but it will be money well spent.
Caution: Contents under pressure
For the love of god mod this up. I thought he was joking, but it's true! It's true I tell you. http://www.myutahsearch.com/
seeing as how he's in utah, maybe a butte pirate?
Whatchew talkin' bout, Willis? Butte is in Montana...
Senator Hatch is, overall, a great guy. The other congressmen from Utah (except for Jim Matheson, a moderate Democrat who managed to barely hold on to his House seat despite the careful gerrymandering of our terrible State Legislature) vote harder-than-hard-line Republican, often seemingly without any thought. Hatch has genuinely tried to investigate the issues and work towards solutions- even though the solutions he engineers get fairly widely booed in Utah since they may deviate from the Party Line. In just about all previous instances when I have disagreed with Sen. Hatch's views, I have nevertheless felt them to be well-reasoned and somewhat justified.
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
ROCK THE VOTE!
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
First of all I was kind of surprised when I first heard about Sen. Hatch's initiative. I am not a big fan of his but very often he looked pretty reasonable to me. IIRC he suppports stem cell research. But going after "pirates" being pirate himself is bad.
That being said I am actually more concerned about independent software developers. And the ways how they can make money and enforce thier licenses. I am not independent developer myself. But I can imagine that doing all that above and actually writing a code could be quite a hassle. I started to think about after I read this this storry.
The thought that occurred to me is this. May be there is a niche for something that we would call (for the lack of a better term) a "software label". It is something like a SourceForge but with a bit muscule behind it. That is for independent software developer it would provide following functions:
1. Hosting a website for given software (that is in essence marketing and advetising).
2. Binaries (or even source code) repository.
3. Handling payments (especially electronic)
4. Legal representation.
Everything except item 4 can be set up on nickel and dime. And regarding lawyers. I hear that here (in the Sil. Valey) a lot of them lost jobs and gladly do lower pay or even pro bono work.
It can even act like an "agent" for a programmer. Just an example. My friend (well actually the guy I talk on IRC a lot) is a free-lancer. Year ago he got a contract to make them a site (linux+appache+php+mysql+lots of other shit). He made it (I was a beta-tester) company got it but now for some lame reason they refuse to pay. He might win but from what I see they are going to suck him dry first.
Point is you wrote a package. But for many reasons (especially now) starting your own company is not feasible yet. In this case it would be nice that there is someone who could handle the "overhead for you".
- Back off man. I am a scientist
wow, great news. now if only he were a congressman and not a senator.
This of course does not take away from the fact that he's a scumbag of the lowest level, comparable with Ernest Hollings (Sen. Disney).
If you see both of them talk in public, you might note they share a lot of mannerisms, including the skeevy condescension.
I'm a Republican and a conservative and I think he sucks moose dick.
Too bad this Wired story won't get as much play as it deserves.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
This is similar to those horrid things that the RIAA is trying to produce, and they are clearly getting not too far, like their new "restricted" audio format, and a block switch for portable MP3 players.
It would be extremely difficult to place a hardware kill switch on commodity computers, as that would require going through all computer/motherboard manufacturers, and unless those without these "kill switches" are made illegal, then the manufacturers who comply are likely to be made extremely unpopular. Even if this scenario was to happen, what's preventing people from finding out what kind of packet that this thing uses, and then using this information to either block these "kill requests" or sending them to other people's computers?
In a software solution, that would be even more of a problem, as even in heavily restricted platforms like XP, the company behind it, Microsoft, still exercises only minimial control over the user's computer, and nothing's there to stop them from modifying parts of the OS to prevent it from recognizing the kill signal.
Protocols on the internet only work when they are open, and this particular protocol to "destroy" people's computers is quite closed. If this is to take place, it would be only a matter of time when malicious users could use it to destroy the computers of other people.
Does everyone remember all the congresscritters out on the steps singing God Bless America? That had an audience of over a billion but did they pay the royalties to the Boy & Girl Scouts? I bet they didn't even check out the copyright before they decided it was a good idea. But it means they all broke copyright law.
If anyone gets to talk to a Senator, this is a very good thing to bring up. According to standard copyright rates, they all owe more in royalties than most of them will ever see and some of these guys play with the national debt.
I'm visiting the US for a week, and have realised where the power here comes from: The Media.
CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, ABC/Disney, and ALL of the others seem to be based on pure viceral knee-jerk reporting. If you want to see Sen. Hatch get in trouble, sic the reporters on him.
Seriously. The media is living on exploitation, either their own or others. Exploit them to the best of your abilities, and watch things explode.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Politicians better fix the economy and end the tech-visa programs before more bored and unemployed techies turn up more dirt on them.
You know what they say: An idle IT person will hack into the devil's workshop.
Table-ized A.I.
Hatch is on the Senate Judiciary committee
Hatch is strongly in favor of extending the length covered by copyright holders.
Obviously he doesn't thing copyright laws apply to him...
Sometimes. It's of course possible to reformat the harddrive. In some cases, it's possible to screw up the BIOS to the point where the computer won't boot. In rarer cases, it's possible to change BIOS settings to run components out of spec (overclock the proc and disabling the fans, for example) enough to actually damage the hardware. Of course, this would only work in some rare cases when the user was running with full Administrator privledges, and it'd be hard to write a single tool that would fuck up a diverse set of computers. In any case, if the RIAA did create such a tool, the antivirus companies would probably be all over it.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Yep, that sure sounds like the kind of guy I want making decisions about IP and technology.
Lets just notify the BSA, and I'm sure they and Senator Hatch can amicably (massive audit) settle this "oversight".
- NOPIRACY
http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/report.php
1-888
Lets see how Mr. Hatch likes his computers destroyed.
Well, I seem to recall they stopped this practice, since a judge somewhere determined that this was depriving the defendant of "due process."
So-- how could the use of computer-destroying technology be legally sanctioned? There is no due process. Sure, the technology could be used, but officially, the perpetrator would be subject to fines, legal damages, and/or jail time, just like any other virus-writing script-kiddie.
Orrin Hatch is really just advocating vigilanteism, which is an abandonment of the whole legal system. What's next? Should I start waving a pistol at everybody who cuts me off, or torching the car of that guy down the street who plays his stereo too loud?
Let's take it one step further. Let's have it so that we not only destroy the music pirate's computer, but we overload his power supply, cause a fire, and burn down his house, and hopefully all his neighbors' houses, too, since they probably were in on it as well...
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
And your point is...?
If my daughter downloads songs on my machine, will Hatch NOT blow mine up?
It's his site; it's his responsibility.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
This time around constitutes an exception. Everybody makes stupid mistakes once in a while, and I hope Hatch manages to pull a course correction on this issue pretty soon.
No, this time does not constitute an exception. Orrin was also the sponsor of another misguided piece of legislation that maybe you've heard of, the DMCA.
Orrin has taken over 175K so far just this year from the TV/Movies/Music lobby
Orrin is one of the WORST congressmen this country has EVER had. Bought off like every other congressman but he apparently is not only paid off but stupid about the legislation that he introduces.
Now jensend, as a constituent I suggest that you get informed on these issues that your idiot congressman makes the rest of the country suffer for.
I was making an implication, not an assertion of truth. Are you telling me that the Church supports a pro-choice, civil libertarian agenda? Please...
Although they don't give official support in a press release, doesn't mean that they don't have a pull in Utah politics.
You obviously don't understand the political context of this state, which has had a religious element from the very beginning. After all, Brigham Young was a first elected governor of Utah with close to Saddam-like 96% (or so) of the populace.
So religion has everything to do with it. Guess who's going to be picking our pro-life judges and anti-consumerist judges. Our friend Orrin. And the church has supported campaigns against gay-marriage in Vermont and Hawaii. So you can blow it out your own naiveté.
As soon as the church gives money to a cause outside of its dogma, we'll talk.
Where does SCO, Novell, Center 7 and the Canopy Group live and work and have their being? Utah!
The Canopy Group, a Utah firm with investments in dozens of companies owns the controlling interest in SCO. That's right, SCO.
Do you consider Hatch's proclamation coincidental to the Copyright issues Canopy has brought up against IBM and Linux as SCO's alter ego? This is a classic special interest lobby created to move public interest in a daring direction.
This senator has some interesting harmonics in his small world.
Historically, incumbents in the US Senate rarely lose an election, regardless of what they do.
A special investigator found evidence proving Senator Robert Packwood of Oregon in violation of campaign finance. The investigation yielded a scandal as Packwood's address book yielded names and address of his many mistresses.
Still, he resigned. No one voted him out.
The power base of a US Senator self perpetuates. During elections, they will be working on a major initiative or project. They will head a major committee. The voters will not vote them out. The state could be conservative and the Senator a liberal and he'll still win.
Senator Hatch has a self perpetuating power base and a very loyal constituency in a state where religion rules.
He's like the basketball player Karl Malone, he'll never retire.
Here's the danger: This guy has the ability to influence state, federal and local legislation.
And he is not demonstrated support for open source.
In our world, he's a butt-head. In the world of the uninformed, he's as right as right can be.
Utah politics is not more complacent or different than any other state.
It is however the power base of software firms and big, big dollars that are not our friends.
Pot here. You are black! I repeat: You are black!
For instance, if Hatch suggested a law allowing you to destroy the computers of spammers, he'd be a hero. If he suggested being able to destroy the computers of anti-trust violators, Slashdotters would be singing his praises. But instead he talks about music piracy, so out comes the tar and the feathers.
According to this software piracy information PDF made by the BSA in paragraph 4, the US Senate is liable for this unlicensed software:
"Many businesses, both large and small, face serious legal risks because
of software piracy. Under the law, a company can be held liable
for its employeesâ(TM) actions. If an employee is installing unauthorized
software copies on company computers or acquiring illegal software
through the Internet, the company can be sued for copyright
infringement. This is true even if the companyâ(TM)s management was
unaware of the employeeâ(TM)s actions."
-Valen
If he had imediately shot his computer on hearing this, I'd have been impressed with his integrity. We will now probably see an exemption for Congress, as usual.
Really this is just an example of what we are seeing more and more again, is that IP is really only for big business, the right is simply not recognized for individuals, or smal l businesses. Hatch should do more than comply, he should set the example, and send the developer restitution... If anyone needs congressional help to enforce their IP its the small developers who simply cannot afford to sue, big lawyers == big overhead..., but
I guess that would upset the 'status quo'.
The Wired article brought a few important points to mind.
3 and 5 hours are about how long this legislation would last if "Continental Airlines" had one of their computer "blown up". Imagine a business with an unregistered copy of winzip getting zapped.
Hatch reportedly said that. Ok, so what if destroying a pirate's computer doesn't do the trick? What if they get another computer and pirate more?
Maybe we should execute them... and if we do that, we should do it on national television to set an example.
Now that I have made some fun of the absurd overreaction to copyright violation, I ask this: how many congress people should be fired, or worse for knowingly doing things for personal gain, at the cost of the US people? That's theft of tax money. It's fraud, etc.
Point is, we all know the politicians are effectively paid by corporations to make certain decisions. We also know that we, the public, can't afford to compete with businesses to buy off politicians. I won't rant too much, but we've needed true campaign finance reform for ages. Corporations can't vote, so they shouldn't be able to manipulate government decisions. And we know many of them don't begin to pay the taxes they're theoretically supposed to pay. Yet I do pay my taxes, and when I screwed up one year, I ended up owing a bunch. I'm paying that off.
It comes down to this: our politicians are either ignorant about technology (this is almost universally true), or they are in bed with the corporations who are paying for their re-election campaigns. It's both, of course.
There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, to be able to compete during campaign time, you have to accept as much money from any source who will give it to you. That's the way it works.
I just don't know what more to say about this. It all seems futile. I do think justice, real justice, will be served one way or another. The people in positions of power who abuse those positions usually know what they are doing. They'll remember their deeds on their death beds, and perhaps they'll feel rotted. What a way to die...
.sigs are for post^Hers.
We do have term limits, they are called elections. Use your vote to elect them out of office. Better yet, use your voice and get fellow members of the electorate to help you in this.
Term limits would hurt politicians that are good as well as those that are scum.
That is the beauty of a democratic system. We get the opportunity to throw out the crummy tyrants and try to elect good tyrants.
The senator must be one of those DICK-headed Americans who shoots off their mouths without thinking.
I mean... just imagine this scenario: a government employee in China (maybe Russia/France or whatever country) is downloading bootlegged music off the Internet. Granted that the guy might be violating U.S copyright law (though technically he is not, because he is not in U.S), but that doesn't give the U.S government the right to sabotage other countries' computers (especially government computers).
So do yourselves a favor and kick this joker out before he causes an international incident which might spark off another war.
Just for the record, I AM NOT AMERICAN.
Check out this link: http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
See the second CD from the bottom of the page, "Many Different Roads"? I thought the cover art looked awfully familiar. Turns out I have a copy of that rose picture on my hard drive from years ago. It's all over the web, and can be found via Google image search.
I don't know the history of that particular image or who owns the copyright to it, but I can't help but wonder if the good senator bothered to find out...
-BK
Chemical Blog
*practice swing w/ baseball bat*
Just the fact that you can say "the Church" and "Orrin Hatch" or "Utah" and everyone knows which religion you are talking about is interesting in the context of power. Blessings aside, he might not need to do anything other than claim to be a member of "the Church" to get the support of the majority of it's membership.
...until a senator can have a reasonable conversation with an average person and explain the entire context and impact of their proposed laws, why it is needed, and why it is better than the other alternatives, I claim that they are not informed enough and should not be allowed to decide if the proposed law is a good thing or not.
and has blessing from the Church.
:-)
Some other posters have claimed that this power is actually pretty trivial. Let me make this as abundantly clear as I possibly can.
WRONG.
I have witnessed personally that simply being Mormon gives you opportunities that one should clearly not have the right to. I recently saw every single hiring rule of the _corporation_ I work for, broken, to hire someone massively underqualified for a UNIX (not Linux) admin position. I had to show this guy how to use the 'ls' and 'cd' commands AFTER he was given this position. He also did not interview for this position. How can this happen you ask?
CEO of corporation needs blessing of several committees that Hatch sits on, hence, a huge percentage of uppers in this company, just magically happen to be mormon, including the VP 3 levels above the person in question, who bypassed all of the HR rules and regulations, elected not to make underqualifed person submit to a standard interview, and gave them the job.
Yes, it's discrimiation. there are labor laws against this. And there is a huge law on the books, that prevents Orrin Hatch from playing religious favorites legally. Little thing called the the First Amendment.
To anyone who lives in UT, vote this small minded bastard out of office, NOW. Get his paid-off ass back into the 'Temple' where it belongs. Preachers have no business in politics.
Yes, I'm posting this anonymously for obvious reason, I actually have excellent Karma, go figure.
Fine, but that, IMO, is directly analogous to the idea of destroying a computer because it has been used for piracy. Consider the modern computing environment where multiple users may (and do) use one machine for a variety of purposes. Tell me, should all users of the machine suffer if one of them downloads music illegally? If all users on that one machine may be legally targetted because of the actions of one user on the same machine (which is basically Hatch's position) then surely he should be held accountable for someone else's work on his Web site. I mean, it's his site, not mine, not yours and certainly not his Webmaster's.
This only goes to show further how out-of-touch and un-informed Hatch really is about computers. He should be making no laws governing their usage until he can build his own fucking web site.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Also, he seems to comply with the terms of the license in the source code of the page. Moreover, any asshole that spends a few hours writing JavaScript code and enforcing a half-baked license to ruin someone's political career (for publicities' sake probably) should get a swift kick in the ass.
DHTML Menu version 3.3
written by Andy Woolley
Copyright 2002 Andy Woolley. All Rights Reserved.
Please feel free to use this code on your own website free of charge.
You can also distribute and modify this source code as long as this
Copyright notice remains intact and that you send me notice that you
intend to use this code on your website.
Limited support for this script is provided
Commercial licence agreements are available on request for use & full support.
You can send email to menu3@milonic.com
Milonic DHTML Website Navigation Menu - Version 3.x
Written by Andy Woolley - Copyright 2002 (c) Milonic Solutions Limited. All Rights Reserved.
Please visit http://www.milonic.co.uk/menu or e-mail menu3@milonic.com for more information.
The Free use of this menu is only available to Non-Profit, Educational & Personal web sites.
Commercial and Corporate licenses are available for use on all other web sites & Intranets.
All Copyright notices MUST remain in place at ALL times and, please keep us informed of your
intentions to use the menu and send us your URL.
I just got done writing him a letter and submitting it through his site.
Here it is:
Dear Sir,
Having read your recent proposition that copyright holders be able to "destroy" the computers of those who download their works without permission I am frankly appalled. I understand that as a copyright holder yourself this might be a hot topic for you but please do not let your emotions overcome common sense.
As a profesional Systems Administrator, I understand the problem of unlicenced downloading. It is a plauge on the bandwith of the systems I administer. However, your proposed solution is one of the worst I have ever heard suggested. Copyright does not take precedence over private property laws. Second this would cause untold financial damage to buisnesses, educational institutions, and government agencies who's machiens were used by employees to download music. In the case of medical, or military computers it could even cause loss of life.
Since your website was recently discovered to be running unlicenced software this campaign of yours is rather hypocritical.
I strongly suggest that you drop this idea immediatly as unrealistic. I suggest instead that you pursue reducing the length of copyrights and/or making it much easier for material to go into the public domain. This would allow for a much greater amount of material to be LEGALLY downloaded. People prefer to do the right and honest thing, as well as avoid possible crimes and their consequences. If they have more legal options for downloads many will choose the legal choice rather than the immoral one - thus allowing artists seeking to make a just profit from their recent works, while fulfilling the original intent of copyright - to provide a limited short term monopoly on creative works as an incentive for more material to be released and the public domain be nurtured.
Respectfully,
-name ommited from slashdot-
LOL. You're proving my point. Perhaps you should read more history, you may surprise your assumptions over the governance of Mr. Young.
My point is simply that you cannot separate cleanly religion and politics in Utah. They coexist.
Just to fill you in, though, Young had a kind of secret police that kept people in line, and assassinated people who were out of step. Dissent really wasn't an option.
It's an interesting read, and Arthur Conan Doyle wrote about as well it in his novel "The Valley of Fear."
This must have been a hack - it's gone now...
Hatch, a Pirate?
Of course not. He's a politician.
Pirates work for a living.
I'm also from Utah, an ardent Democrat, and there's no chance in hell Hatch will be kicked out of office.
Maybe, maybe not. He's being seriously blasted right now, on all of the local radio shows, in all of the papers, and there's been a surprising (to me) amount of word-of-mouth about it as well. My Mom mentioned to me that she heard about it on the local News/Weather/Traffic radio station's movie show, and not a *single* caller (or the host) had anything good to say. This is the largest "drive time" radio station in the state, by far.
Hatch has a *lot* of supporters in the state, but many are wondering if he's going senile. I mean, even if he believes it, how could any rational politician bring himself to say it out loud, repeatedly? You know it's going to make people mad; even the companies who stand to gain the most from a strong stance against copyright infringement on-line are going to distance themselves from discussion of "destroying" computers.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
I've dealt with him !
1-800-P I R A C Y... You've got a friend @ the BSA !
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
To take it a step farther, what we really need is a 24/7 âoeGovCamâ to be permanently mounted on every elected official so we can tune in and see what the hell they are up to.
Itâ(TM)s a network show thatâ(TM)s guaranteed to make The Sopranos dull and drab to be sure. And then some brave media company can put together a website where there is a Survivor-like online game and the losing politicians are exploded out of office.
Starting with Orrin Hatch, of course. Live by remote detonation, die by remote detonation.
"all that shareware you registered in under 30 days"
Shareware is a form of degenerative IP protection that will lead the unsuspecting subject to use more and more free for use software, leading him in the dangerous path of Free Software, or even (God Prevents !) Copyleft, GPLed so called software !!!
The only way for us to protect America is to protect the poor Lusers and make it so that it is almost impossible for those Shareware to be found anywhere. We owe those poor souls the Joy and Happiness of well made EULA, such as already comfort all good users.
Your friend in the *AA.
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
This is a copy of the email I sent to Hatch:
Subject: Intellectual property
US Citizen [yes] Constituent [No]
Mr. Hatch, I respect your current attempts to update your license on your menu. Intent to comply is very indicative of desire. I, too, try to follow every IP law that you guys write for us. The burden is heavy.
However, I would like to point out a bit of philosophy about IP law that has direct effects on the US economy.
I think you should reconsider your position, based on the position of right and wrong.
When you read this, think about natural rights vs. granted rights, and natural law vs. granted law.
(1) Whenever a government violates natural law, it hurts the efficiency of the law, it hurts the economy, and it hurts the government, moving the country toward a state of anarchy. Natural law are those laws that follow from our nature. Sometimes, we do write granted law: a law that is not natural, a law that violates property, or freedom of thought [religion], or the right to defend oneself [2nd Amendment]. The reason we do this is that life without charity and only according to natural law is hard. Yet with all the damage that unnatural law does, it should only be written with great trepidation.
Congress, by the way, is not real good at this one. Look at the size of our law libraries if you doubt me.
Think about my statement: Every unnatural law hurts the economy more than it helps. This is because it hinders economic production. Real wealth depends on production, not on wealth transfer. It is also because granted law makes the economic climate unsure: you don't know if the proceeds of your investment will come back to you or be transferred to another, so you are more hesitant to invest.
(2) Intellectual property is not natural law. The right to work is natural law [that is, to labor to the best of your abilities to better your condition]. Natural law is not to say what a man can do and cannot do to better his condition. Or another way: If I have knowledge, it is natural for me to use it.
(3) Intellectual property is a monopoly. There are two kinds of monopoly: the monopoly of being the only one able to do a job, which is a natural monopoly, and a granted monopoly, which is an unnatural monopoly. The US Constition authorizes some kinds of intellectual property, in an effort to reduce the former monopoly -- but current law increases the latter monopoly much more.
I would argue that it is usually better to allow natural monopolies -- but the fact remains that our Constitution allows otherwise, and I accept that.
Yet the Constitution does not stipulate a set time -- it allows the government to set an undefined limited term of monopoly.
Mr. Hatch, I would like you to consider that monopolies of every kind: copyrights, patents, and any other kind appropriate, be shortened, not lengthened. Already we begin to see the damage done by our IP law, and it is driving real business away, and encouraging investment in "patent firms", which do no real development or manufacturing, but consist only of lawyers who patent, wait for another firm to develop something, and sue.
It is destroying the fastest-growing segments of our information infrastructure as well, such as the Open Source Software that NASA uses.
Already it is encouraging companies to require employees to sign horrible agreements to sign away all rights to all inventions, and thus stifling innovation.
But I don't ask you to consider just the economic effects. Please consider the *philosophy* behind my claims, and see if that is true. If it is, only then consider the economic effects.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
would join the Democrats except for the obvious fact that they whore to the trial lawyers
Why not join another party. Politics in the US and here in Oz and dominanted by two parties only because people lack the courage to vote for minor parties (thats just my thought but they don't vote for them for some reason). THey arn't all kooks and special interest parties. I don't like either of the big parties in th US or in Oz. They are all taking it up the arse from big business.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
But if his explode-a-comp(tm) gets through u could use it against your enemies. No doubt geeks will find a way to stop it but you could send through an mp3 or some such to someone you don't like and Kablamo good bye their comp. Evil I know.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Pete C
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
I don't know what the legal situation is eactly in the US, but in the UK anyone who creates a work that can be copyrighted, automatically gets the copyright assigned to them (i.e. they do not need to write (c) 2003 Joe Blow or register their work anywhere etc.). I imagine that much the same is true in the US.
So, in order for the antihacking laws to be properly circumvented, thus allowing a copyright holder to blow up the computer of anyone breaching their copyright, then everyone who holds a copyright must be made exempt from those antihacking laws.
This will be anyone who has written a story, painted a picture, put up a website, etc. -- i.e. pretty much every US citizen. So, the law would allow anyone to distroy anyone else's computer.
Unless of course, by "compyright holder", what is really meant is "the music and film industries".
This really is a stupid law.
"The noble art of losing face will one day save the human race"---Hans Blix
Nice ad hominem. Still doesn't change the fact that Hatch is a hypocrite. The failure to properly license the software is legally his responsibility--if employers could shove responsibility off to contractors, don't you think we would all be contractors? I'm sure if I had a contractor who failed to obtain a license for a piece of software he used on my site, the BSA would be so far up my ass I could taste Brylcreem.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Someone should have a little chat with Mr. Orin. Does he believe that ALL computers should be nuked if they contain illegal copyrighted material?
If so, then what about those computers in the government which may contain terabytes of important information, and maybe one single illegal file? Does that one single file give the copyright owner the right to destroy all that information?
What would stop the next senator (extremist or just looking for the political spotlight) from taking that next step?
Here's a scenario, Someone at, say the FBI has access to their mainframe, and while doing their job they like to listen to music, so they have Mp3s on their PC. Well one day they are told they are getting a new PC, and happily transfer all their personal data onto the mainframe so it can be copied to their new PC later.
Say they like to listen to Metalica, and one of the files they had was an old file originally illegally traded through Napster or Kazaa or such.
Does Metalica now have the right to destroy the FBI mainframe, and doing so destroy any data contained therein about criminals and terrorists?
Doing so would directly jeopardize the safety of millions upon millions of people.
What about software that was created using illegally gained SDKs? Should that software be destroyed as well?
Sorry Jimmy, I know your in middle of your kidney dialysis, but the firmware for this machine was written using an illegal download of a copyrighted compiler. Oh and by the way, your dad's pacemaker? the firmware for that was written using the Notepad of an illegally pirated copy of Microsoft Windows 3.1. It's going to have to be nuked.
You can say good bye to your dad now. Yep bye bye....bye bye!
You mom? oh she's on a flight here...
oh shit...the navigational software on that plane...
I think Orin should be enlightened to the ramifications of opening this Pandora's box.
What would then stop a terrorist from alleging that the vital computers he fried contained his copyrighted material?
Hello pot, it's the kettle calling.
If people would check Milonic's website before blabbering on slashdot, they will notice that Hatch has resolved this issue:
"We have received many emails regarding the implementation of our software and Milonic are pleased to announce that there are no longer any licensing issues with reference to the above [Orin Hatch] website..."
Typical for the congress, dosen't matter if they are democrats or republican 99% of them are the same. It's gotten to the point, they it's a feudilistic (sp) country. We the "little people" are the surfs.....idiots who can't walk and chew gum, and if it wasn't for the kings telling us what to do, we'd all be walking around bumping into everything. They make rules for everyone to follow EXCEPT them! Just look at all the idiots up there complaining about SUV's.......They scream that it's causing global warming, but when they go home, it's in a chauffer driven limosene, or flying home in a private jet, to live in a 40 room mansion that has a 20 car garage. Until this country wakes up, throws ALL of them out, and elects people from "flyover" country, and limits their terms to let say 12 years with NO reelection possibility, it will never change. The lobbyist have their claws well dug into these idiots. It's sad, that 99% of them, have tossed their ethics out the windows for the $$$$ instead.
The sad truth about this whole thread is that with all the licensing debates and jokes the real problem is ignored. That being that a government with no real grasp on the technology or its implications, good or bad, is debating on a daily basis legislation to regulate that technology.
I think, as most groups are doing these days, that free software advocates should be lobbying congress and that a grasp on technology should be an issue in any election campaign. The US senate is the big time, not some triple A farm team - lets treat it as such.
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
Naw, just prevent candidates from running more than two *consecutive* terms. If they're really popular they can switch between the senate and the house, but otherwise it would serve to shake things up without depriving us of experience. It worked for the Romans for hundreds of years; and it wasn't a failure of this system that led to the fall of the Republic.
This sig wasn't worth reading, was it.
I think this post was deceptively titled.
:p) to rail against their senator (who, by the way, is generally held as a moral and respectable senator..on both sides of party lines), I don't see much good, if any, this has done.
The first thing I thought when I read this is "Why would Senator Hatch be the pirate?". I wasn't aware that any Senators designed their own websites. The fact is, they don't. It is kind of ironic that Mr. Hatche's own website has a pirated script...in light of his recent proposals on piracy prevention. BUT I think that he is not a pirate, he is actually a victim of piracy in this occassion.
He paid a company a lot of money to design his website, and like so many others...he got screwed. It is not uncommon for paid web designers to lift other people's designs, use pirated software, or even steal scripts entirely. It happens every day, the responsible party is the company that stole it, not the unknowing customer.
The headline and the possible irony may have drawn a lot of posts, but outside of a chance for unhappy Utahans (I just coined a phrase
Sure, his philosophy on how to deal with computer piracy is extreme, and even scary. We can rest knowing that such legislation would never make it through the Senate, House, President...or hold up in Courts. It violates every constitutional right that protects individual property.
Speaking of property though, maybe if we'd stop defending Kazaa and filesharing...and admit that 99% of its users pirate software and music, we wouldn't need this legislation. It is users (myself included) that keep it a float.
Clif
clifgriffin > blog
The software that is 'pirated' is from a UK company. Sen. Hatch is not interesting in protecting the rights of anyone but the big American companies that pay his bills...
On a side note, with this becoming more and more common, is there any kind of plan for a tag in the future? Seems like the right thing to do.
I emailed this link to the host of my favorite morning radio show last night before I went to bed, and when my alarm clock radio went off at 5:50 this morning, I heard him reading it on the air. Jim Quinn (host) had talked about Senator Hatch's plans before, and (like many of us) had found it very ironic that this man enploys pirates to do his web site.
This space for rent, inquire within.
So under Hatch's system, the computer destroyer sends him a warning. He then registers the software and puts up the link (he doesn't actually owe the company any money if he has non-profit status), thereby avoiding having his computer destroyed. He then thinks, "Great, the system works." Maybe if some bug in the sw didn't notice he was now in compliance and destroyed his computer anyway, hee'd think twice about his policy.
Vote for Pedro